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\"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 678.296, \"end\": 678.316, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,137 --> 00:00:13,957\n好謝謝主席我想要請我們國發會的葉主委好我們再請葉主委\n\n2\n00:00:19,668 --> 00:00:46,951\n主委我想請教現在美國還有兩個地區的銀行發生了這樣子信貸的這個危機那我想要請問你對於美國整個銀行體系會不會有像2008年那樣子的一個整體的系統性的風險再加上目前美國他們\n\n3\n00:00:48,052 --> 00:01:15,824\n的股市裡面對於AI的泡沫化也提出了相關的事情因為有非常多新創的公司目前並沒有就是那些新創公司都是投資AI的相關產業但是他們的市值很高卻是沒有任何的盈餘那\n\n4\n00:01:16,818 --> 00:01:36,810\n市場在擔心會不會回歸到過去的.com的那樣子的一個泡沫化的危機我認為這些問題很重要的原因在於我們台灣如果未來政府要發展成為亞洲資產管理中心那\n\n5\n00:01:37,250 --> 00:01:55,209\n我們的政府部門對於相關的系統性的風險一定要有所掌控那我想要了解畢竟你是跨產業而且你對於國際的情勢都要了解的那你是不是能給予我們國人一個說明\n\n6\n00:01:56,660 --> 00:02:15,291\n第一个先跟委员报告就是说这一次的那一个AI的整个复苏跟2000年的那个.combubble有一点点不一样就是说.combubble它其实整个的发展过程当中并没有产生出很多的所谓的中断应用它那个产业\n\n7\n00:02:16,272 --> 00:02:35,286\n拓展出來的其實沒有想像那麼多通常都是只是在一些網路上面比較多的一些應用這一次的AI這個部分來講的話其實它慢慢的我們會看到就是說它除了從雲端目前的發展的情況通常都在雲端也就是說很多的資料中心在建置它的算力\n\n8\n00:02:35,726 --> 00:03:00,279\n那這個算力都是放在雲端那從雲端會慢慢的落實到中端所謂中端就會落實到我們的比如說筆電或者是我們的手機這樣的一個應用上面所以還有產業吧現在我們正在推動的就是我們傳產以及我們精密機械等等相關產業的AI的產線\n\n9\n00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:26,728\n我們怎麼樣子擴大這個產線的應用那所以我才要要問的是主委現在目前那個美國的AI的新創公司他們的他們的那個產值已經到達了一兆的市值已經到達了一兆的美元但是都沒有產生相關的盈餘啊那\n\n10\n00:03:27,788 --> 00:03:53,340\n這個東西對於美國他會不會有一些市場性整個有系統性的風險再加上現在地區銀行有發生了這樣子炸彈的這樣子的問題那會不會導致全部有一個系統在美國如果產生系統性的風險的時候會不會像過去2008年產生全球性的金融的這樣子危機\n\n11\n00:03:54,621 --> 00:03:58,238\n是我想要請教主委的是不是你能就這個回答一下\n\n12\n00:03:58,789 --> 00:04:26,921\n就这个部分来讲就是说很多新创产业在发展AI的很多应用那这个应用上面来讲的话它其实在财务操作上面来讲可能没有像以前的那个DakanBubble那么的杠杆倍数那么的高所以目前虽然说有一些有一些新创公司市值很高但是很亏损的一个情况的话可能可以经由所谓的市场上面的一些机制让这一些那你觉得现在AI的应用面广不广\n\n13\n00:04:27,557 --> 00:04:55,855\n我觉得现在应用面还没有大家想象那么多但是它是持续的在成长当中那它的应用面在台湾的这个推广上面你觉得目前进展如何台湾的推转面上面来讲的话AI大概分两块一个是硬体跟软体那我们台湾的话就是硬体相对比较基础建设这边做得比较好但是软体上面来讲就软体应用上面来讲相对比较缺乏一些这样子\n\n14\n00:04:56,055 --> 00:05:20,964\n好那我還要再問你因為你們是台積電的股東嘛對不對那就台積電我們目前我們擁有的是半導體的先進的技術那但是美國可能還對於半導體的整體的技術以及我們是製造的技術嘛美國是整個半導體的技術以及相關的設備等等的\n\n15\n00:05:22,725 --> 00:05:47,477\n那我們如果去到美國我們現在要把它去到我們台積電要去到美國去投資那蕭副總統所說的到底是台灣的投資就是說台灣半導體企業的投資還是我們政府的投資他說去美國這樣子的聚落啊或者是這樣子的生態系已經已經形成了是不是\n\n16\n00:05:49,097 --> 00:06:14,044\n基本上台積電去美國投資我們會把它當作是一個企業投資畢竟它是台灣的上市櫃公司只是說它把整個供應鏈都帶去了這個部分跟委員分享就是說這一次的方式跟以往就是說我們在全球化就是1980年代一直到2020年代這一段期間全球化有一個很大的一個差異性就是說美國的產業外移它是一整個產業鏈切一塊\n\n17\n00:06:16,209 --> 00:06:30,127\n然后跑到那个东亚国家这边譬如说像半导体那这样的一个切分的一个方式在HarvardBusinessReview2009年有一篇文章在讨论就是说这样的一个切分方式其实对\n\n18\n00:06:31,243 --> 00:06:56,265\n美國的製造業以及製造業的創新其實有非常大的一個傷害那我們這一次的方式跟他們其實有點不一樣我們雖然是整個產業鏈是複製過去而不是說整個切然後移到美國那邊去所以整個性質上面來講會有很大的一個差異性那在那一篇文章也非常強調就是說當你在整個供應鏈重組的過程當中的話\n\n19\n00:06:57,666 --> 00:07:20,477\n是保留一些製造尤其是先進而且是關鍵的製造在本土的話其實對於本土的那一個創新其實有很大的幫助但是但是但是但是其實我們知道了雖然我們要到美國去可是目前他必須大量的仰賴台灣的科技人才那\n\n20\n00:07:20,917 --> 00:07:40,635\n我們的科技人才如果都到美國去了其實如果就你們所說的我們台灣還留下最先進的製程的時候那我們的人才從哪裡而來那我們現在訓練了這麼多大量的人才會不會到時候就變成就在幫美國做\n\n21\n00:07:41,776 --> 00:08:05,447\n職工訓練嘛是不是那我們自己台灣的最先進的N-1的這一代的台積電的還有相關的其他的AI的發展的相關的人才那我們怎麼辦呢那他如果大量的延攬我們的人才到美國去難道我們的大學就成為美國人才的訓練庫是不是\n\n22\n00:08:06,348 --> 00:08:15,163\n跟我有報告我自己有幾個朋友是在台積電工作也有派到美國可是他們跟我講說他其實不太想出去因為美國其實\n\n23\n00:08:16,721 --> 00:08:43,374\n有在美國生活過的其實很難去適應美國的生活方式還是台灣會比較好所以其實台積電扮演的一個角色其實是在幫美國建構他們自己本土的人才所以我們在這邊的話我們會當作就是說替全世界在台灣培育各國所需要的一些半導體的人才所以像台積電的話他在台中他就有一個類似一個Camp\n\n24\n00:08:43,914 --> 00:08:47,347\n那這個Camp就是說你今天假如說外國人要派到\n\n25\n00:08:48,058 --> 00:09:14,080\n日本或派到德國的話他會先來台灣受兩個月到三個月的一個training那完了之後再送回去所以委員擔心的這個部分的話目前來講看起來是沒有那一個跡象但這個部分當然我們要持續的去關注因為我們也不清楚就是說因為他還是你要建廠然後建廠如果只擔用美國的人才有時候也沒那麼快那要讓才能上線那也需要\n\n26\n00:09:14,901 --> 00:09:39,332\n台灣的第一批的人才先過去所以我們當然擔心說你這樣子會把整個供應鏈那甚至如果所有的供應鏈都到美國去了那是會來在排擠方面會不會造成台灣的產業園區或科學園區空洞化那再來就是你都在補助像半導體相關的產業那我們現在所\n\n27\n00:09:39,952 --> 00:10:08,066\n我們經濟成長所依賴的有部分是因為搶單有部分是因為232裡面半導體在搶單那未來台灣的這個中小型微企業那怎麼生存你的租賄優稅還有對於我們非半導體的傳產對於水電方面土地方面有沒有任何的協助這才是我們民眾想要關心的嘛是不是\n\n28\n00:10:09,647 --> 00:10:31,224\n對啊你不能夠把整個都移到那裡人才都去那裡結果台灣的船產台灣的半導體還有未來AI的發展都沒有留下相關的科技人才也沒有對於相關的租稅土地還有水電等等給予台灣廠商尤其是最辛苦的船產給予他們協助啊是不是\n\n29\n00:10:33,506 --> 00:10:57,888\n這個傳產這部分來講的話幾天前我剛剛有碰到工部長工部長有大概分享就是說他們目前就是說那一個特別預算通過之後有框了大概461讓中小企業開始去做一些升級轉型那他跟我分享是說還蠻踴躍的也就是說中小企業在這一波關稅的衝擊之下\n\n30\n00:10:58,328 --> 00:11:18,316\n你不能只聽經濟部長你要有自己的看法除了他之外我當然還有收視意見你要聽委員的意見委員的意見也很重要你要聽委員的意見你怎麼會只聽工部長所以我大概跟委員分享說目前中小企業其實都還蠻積極在做AI的轉型以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8137\t13957\t好 謝謝主席我想要請我們國發會的葉主委好 我們再請葉主委\n19668\t46951\t主委我想請教現在美國還有兩個地區的銀行發生了這樣子信貸的這個危機那我想要請問你對於美國整個銀行體系會不會有像2008年那樣子的一個整體的系統性的風險再加上目前美國他們\n48052\t75824\t的股市裡面對於AI的泡沫化也提出了相關的事情因為有非常多新創的公司目前並沒有就是那些新創公司都是投資AI的相關產業但是他們的市值很高卻是沒有任何的盈餘那\n76818\t96810\t市場在擔心會不會回歸到過去的.com的那樣子的一個泡沫化的危機我認為這些問題很重要的原因在於我們台灣如果未來政府要發展成為亞洲資產管理中心那\n97250\t115209\t我們的政府部門對於相關的系統性的風險一定要有所掌控那我想要了解畢竟你是跨產業而且你對於國際的情勢都要了解的那你是不是能給予我們國人一個說明\n116660\t135291\t第一个先跟委员报告就是说这一次的那一个AI的整个复苏跟2000年的那个.com bubble有一点点不一样就是说.com bubble它其实整个的发展过程当中并没有产生出很多的所谓的中断应用它那个产业\n136272\t155286\t拓展出來的其實沒有想像那麼多通常都是只是在一些網路上面比較多的一些應用這一次的AI這個部分來講的話其實它慢慢的我們會看到就是說它除了從雲端目前的發展的情況通常都在雲端也就是說很多的資料中心在建置它的算力\n155726\t180279\t那這個算力都是放在雲端那從雲端會慢慢的落實到中端所謂中端就會落實到我們的比如說筆電或者是我們的手機這樣的一個應用上面所以還有產業吧現在我們正在推動的就是我們傳產以及我們精密機械等等相關產業的AI的產線\n183300\t206728\t我們怎麼樣子擴大這個產線的應用那所以我才要要問的是主委現在目前那個美國的AI的新創公司他們的他們的那個產值已經到達了一兆的市值已經到達了一兆的美元但是都沒有產生相關的盈餘啊那\n207788\t233340\t這個東西對於美國他會不會有一些市場性整個有系統性的風險再加上現在地區銀行有發生了這樣子炸彈的這樣子的問題那會不會導致全部有一個系統在美國如果產生系統性的風險的時候會不會像過去2008年產生全球性的金融的這樣子危機\n234621\t238238\t是我想要請教主委的是不是你能就這個回答一下\n238789\t266921\t就这个部分来讲就是说很多新创产业在发展AI的很多应用那这个应用上面来讲的话它其实在财务操作上面来讲可能没有像以前的那个Dakan Bubble那么的杠杆倍数那么的高所以目前虽然说有一些有一些新创公司市值很高但是很亏损的一个情况的话可能可以经由所谓的市场上面的一些机制让这一些那你觉得现在AI的应用面广不广\n267557\t295855\t我觉得现在应用面还没有大家想象那么多但是它是持续的在成长当中那它的应用面在台湾的这个推广上面你觉得目前进展如何台湾的推转面上面来讲的话AI大概分两块一个是硬体跟软体那我们台湾的话就是硬体相对比较基础建设这边做得比较好但是软体上面来讲就软体应用上面来讲相对比较缺乏一些这样子\n296055\t320964\t好那我還要再問你因為你們是台積電的股東嘛對不對那就台積電我們目前我們擁有的是半導體的先進的技術那但是美國可能還對於半導體的整體的技術以及我們是製造的技術嘛美國是整個半導體的技術以及相關的設備等等的\n322725\t347477\t那我們如果去到美國我們現在要把它去到我們台積電要去到美國去投資那蕭副總統所說的到底是台灣的投資就是說台灣半導體企業的投資還是我們政府的投資他說去美國這樣子的聚落啊或者是這樣子的生態系已經已經形成了是不是\n349097\t374044\t基本上台積電去美國投資我們會把它當作是一個企業投資畢竟它是台灣的上市櫃公司只是說它把整個供應鏈都帶去了這個部分跟委員分享就是說這一次的方式跟以往就是說我們在全球化就是1980年代一直到2020年代這一段期間全球化有一個很大的一個差異性就是說美國的產業外移它是一整個產業鏈切一塊\n376209\t390127\t然后跑到那个东亚国家这边譬如说像半导体那这样的一个切分的一个方式在Harvard Business Review2009年有一篇文章在讨论就是说这样的一个切分方式其实对\n391243\t416265\t美國的製造業以及製造業的創新其實有非常大的一個傷害那我們這一次的方式跟他們其實有點不一樣我們雖然是整個產業鏈是複製過去而不是說整個切然後移到美國那邊去所以整個性質上面來講會有很大的一個差異性那在那一篇文章也非常強調就是說當你在整個供應鏈重組的過程當中的話\n417666\t440477\t是保留一些製造尤其是先進而且是關鍵的製造在本土的話其實對於本土的那一個創新其實有很大的幫助但是但是但是但是其實我們知道了雖然我們要到美國去可是目前他必須大量的仰賴台灣的科技人才那\n440917\t460635\t我們的科技人才如果都到美國去了其實如果就你們所說的我們台灣還留下最先進的製程的時候那我們的人才從哪裡而來那我們現在訓練了這麼多大量的人才會不會到時候就變成就在幫美國做\n461776\t485447\t職工訓練嘛是不是那我們自己台灣的最先進的N-1的這一代的台積電的還有相關的其他的AI的發展的相關的人才那我們怎麼辦呢那他如果大量的延攬我們的人才到美國去難道我們的大學就成為美國人才的訓練庫是不是\n486348\t495163\t跟我有報告我自己有幾個朋友是在台積電工作也有派到美國可是他們跟我講說他其實不太想出去因為美國其實\n496721\t523374\t有在美國生活過的其實很難去適應美國的生活方式還是台灣會比較好所以其實台積電扮演的一個角色其實是在幫美國建構他們自己本土的人才所以我們在這邊的話我們會當作就是說替全世界在台灣培育各國所需要的一些半導體的人才所以像台積電的話他在台中他就有一個類似一個Camp\n523914\t527347\t那這個Camp就是說你今天假如說外國人要派到\n528058\t554080\t日本或派到德國的話他會先來台灣受兩個月到三個月的一個training那完了之後再送回去所以委員擔心的這個部分的話目前來講看起來是沒有那一個跡象但這個部分當然我們要持續的去關注因為我們也不清楚就是說因為他還是你要建廠然後建廠如果只擔用美國的人才有時候也沒那麼快那要讓才能上線那也需要\n554901\t579332\t台灣的第一批的人才先過去所以我們當然擔心說你這樣子會把整個供應鏈那甚至如果所有的供應鏈都到美國去了那是會來在排擠方面會不會造成台灣的產業園區或科學園區空洞化那再來就是你都在補助像半導體相關的產業那我們現在所\n579952\t608066\t我們經濟成長所依賴的有部分是因為搶單有部分是因為232裡面半導體在搶單那未來台灣的這個中小型微企業那怎麼生存你的租賄優稅還有對於我們非半導體的傳產對於水電方面土地方面有沒有任何的協助這才是我們民眾想要關心的嘛是不是\n609647\t631224\t對啊 你不能夠把整個都移到那裡 人才都去那裡結果台灣的船產 台灣的半導體還有未來AI的發展 都沒有留下相關的科技人才也沒有對於相關的租稅 土地 還有水電等等給予台灣廠商 尤其是最辛苦的船產給予他們協助啊 是不是\n633506\t657888\t這個傳產這部分來講的話幾天前我剛剛有碰到工部長工部長有大概分享就是說他們目前就是說那一個特別預算通過之後有框了大概461讓中小企業開始去做一些升級轉型那他跟我分享是說還蠻踴躍的也就是說中小企業在這一波關稅的衝擊之下\n658328\t678316\t你不能只聽經濟部長你要有自己的看法除了他之外我當然還有收視意見你要聽委員的意見委員的意見也很重要你要聽委員的意見你怎麼會只聽工部長所以我大概跟委員分享說目前中小企業其實都還蠻積極在做AI的轉型以上 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席我想要請我們國發會的葉主委好 我們再請葉主委\n主委我想請教現在美國還有兩個地區的銀行發生了這樣子信貸的這個危機那我想要請問你對於美國整個銀行體系會不會有像2008年那樣子的一個整體的系統性的風險再加上目前美國他們\n的股市裡面對於AI的泡沫化也提出了相關的事情因為有非常多新創的公司目前並沒有就是那些新創公司都是投資AI的相關產業但是他們的市值很高卻是沒有任何的盈餘那\n市場在擔心會不會回歸到過去的.com的那樣子的一個泡沫化的危機我認為這些問題很重要的原因在於我們台灣如果未來政府要發展成為亞洲資產管理中心那\n我們的政府部門對於相關的系統性的風險一定要有所掌控那我想要了解畢竟你是跨產業而且你對於國際的情勢都要了解的那你是不是能給予我們國人一個說明\n第一个先跟委员报告就是说这一次的那一个AI的整个复苏跟2000年的那个.com bubble有一点点不一样就是说.com bubble它其实整个的发展过程当中并没有产生出很多的所谓的中断应用它那个产业\n拓展出來的其實沒有想像那麼多通常都是只是在一些網路上面比較多的一些應用這一次的AI這個部分來講的話其實它慢慢的我們會看到就是說它除了從雲端目前的發展的情況通常都在雲端也就是說很多的資料中心在建置它的算力\n那這個算力都是放在雲端那從雲端會慢慢的落實到中端所謂中端就會落實到我們的比如說筆電或者是我們的手機這樣的一個應用上面所以還有產業吧現在我們正在推動的就是我們傳產以及我們精密機械等等相關產業的AI的產線\n我們怎麼樣子擴大這個產線的應用那所以我才要要問的是主委現在目前那個美國的AI的新創公司他們的他們的那個產值已經到達了一兆的市值已經到達了一兆的美元但是都沒有產生相關的盈餘啊那\n這個東西對於美國他會不會有一些市場性整個有系統性的風險再加上現在地區銀行有發生了這樣子炸彈的這樣子的問題那會不會導致全部有一個系統在美國如果產生系統性的風險的時候會不會像過去2008年產生全球性的金融的這樣子危機\n是我想要請教主委的是不是你能就這個回答一下\n就这个部分来讲就是说很多新创产业在发展AI的很多应用那这个应用上面来讲的话它其实在财务操作上面来讲可能没有像以前的那个Dakan Bubble那么的杠杆倍数那么的高所以目前虽然说有一些有一些新创公司市值很高但是很亏损的一个情况的话可能可以经由所谓的市场上面的一些机制让这一些那你觉得现在AI的应用面广不广\n我觉得现在应用面还没有大家想象那么多但是它是持续的在成长当中那它的应用面在台湾的这个推广上面你觉得目前进展如何台湾的推转面上面来讲的话AI大概分两块一个是硬体跟软体那我们台湾的话就是硬体相对比较基础建设这边做得比较好但是软体上面来讲就软体应用上面来讲相对比较缺乏一些这样子\n好那我還要再問你因為你們是台積電的股東嘛對不對那就台積電我們目前我們擁有的是半導體的先進的技術那但是美國可能還對於半導體的整體的技術以及我們是製造的技術嘛美國是整個半導體的技術以及相關的設備等等的\n那我們如果去到美國我們現在要把它去到我們台積電要去到美國去投資那蕭副總統所說的到底是台灣的投資就是說台灣半導體企業的投資還是我們政府的投資他說去美國這樣子的聚落啊或者是這樣子的生態系已經已經形成了是不是\n基本上台積電去美國投資我們會把它當作是一個企業投資畢竟它是台灣的上市櫃公司只是說它把整個供應鏈都帶去了這個部分跟委員分享就是說這一次的方式跟以往就是說我們在全球化就是1980年代一直到2020年代這一段期間全球化有一個很大的一個差異性就是說美國的產業外移它是一整個產業鏈切一塊\n然后跑到那个东亚国家这边譬如说像半导体那这样的一个切分的一个方式在Harvard Business Review2009年有一篇文章在讨论就是说这样的一个切分方式其实对\n美國的製造業以及製造業的創新其實有非常大的一個傷害那我們這一次的方式跟他們其實有點不一樣我們雖然是整個產業鏈是複製過去而不是說整個切然後移到美國那邊去所以整個性質上面來講會有很大的一個差異性那在那一篇文章也非常強調就是說當你在整個供應鏈重組的過程當中的話\n是保留一些製造尤其是先進而且是關鍵的製造在本土的話其實對於本土的那一個創新其實有很大的幫助但是但是但是但是其實我們知道了雖然我們要到美國去可是目前他必須大量的仰賴台灣的科技人才那\n我們的科技人才如果都到美國去了其實如果就你們所說的我們台灣還留下最先進的製程的時候那我們的人才從哪裡而來那我們現在訓練了這麼多大量的人才會不會到時候就變成就在幫美國做\n職工訓練嘛是不是那我們自己台灣的最先進的N-1的這一代的台積電的還有相關的其他的AI的發展的相關的人才那我們怎麼辦呢那他如果大量的延攬我們的人才到美國去難道我們的大學就成為美國人才的訓練庫是不是\n跟我有報告我自己有幾個朋友是在台積電工作也有派到美國可是他們跟我講說他其實不太想出去因為美國其實\n有在美國生活過的其實很難去適應美國的生活方式還是台灣會比較好所以其實台積電扮演的一個角色其實是在幫美國建構他們自己本土的人才所以我們在這邊的話我們會當作就是說替全世界在台灣培育各國所需要的一些半導體的人才所以像台積電的話他在台中他就有一個類似一個Camp\n那這個Camp就是說你今天假如說外國人要派到\n日本或派到德國的話他會先來台灣受兩個月到三個月的一個training那完了之後再送回去所以委員擔心的這個部分的話目前來講看起來是沒有那一個跡象但這個部分當然我們要持續的去關注因為我們也不清楚就是說因為他還是你要建廠然後建廠如果只擔用美國的人才有時候也沒那麼快那要讓才能上線那也需要\n台灣的第一批的人才先過去所以我們當然擔心說你這樣子會把整個供應鏈那甚至如果所有的供應鏈都到美國去了那是會來在排擠方面會不會造成台灣的產業園區或科學園區空洞化那再來就是你都在補助像半導體相關的產業那我們現在所\n我們經濟成長所依賴的有部分是因為搶單有部分是因為232裡面半導體在搶單那未來台灣的這個中小型微企業那怎麼生存你的租賄優稅還有對於我們非半導體的傳產對於水電方面土地方面有沒有任何的協助這才是我們民眾想要關心的嘛是不是\n對啊 你不能夠把整個都移到那裡 人才都去那裡結果台灣的船產 台灣的半導體還有未來AI的發展 都沒有留下相關的科技人才也沒有對於相關的租稅 土地 還有水電等等給予台灣廠商 尤其是最辛苦的船產給予他們協助啊 是不是\n這個傳產這部分來講的話幾天前我剛剛有碰到工部長工部長有大概分享就是說他們目前就是說那一個特別預算通過之後有框了大概461讓中小企業開始去做一些升級轉型那他跟我分享是說還蠻踴躍的也就是說中小企業在這一波關稅的衝擊之下\n你不能只聽經濟部長你要有自己的看法除了他之外我當然還有收視意見你要聽委員的意見委員的意見也很重要你要聽委員的意見你怎麼會只聽工部長所以我大概跟委員分享說目前中小企業其實都還蠻積極在做AI的轉型以上 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.137 --> 00:13.957\n好謝謝主席我想要請我們國發會的葉主委好我們再請葉主委\n\n00:19.668 --> 00:46.951\n主委我想請教現在美國還有兩個地區的銀行發生了這樣子信貸的這個危機那我想要請問你對於美國整個銀行體系會不會有像2008年那樣子的一個整體的系統性的風險再加上目前美國他們\n\n00:48.052 --> 01:15.824\n的股市裡面對於AI的泡沫化也提出了相關的事情因為有非常多新創的公司目前並沒有就是那些新創公司都是投資AI的相關產業但是他們的市值很高卻是沒有任何的盈餘那\n\n01:16.818 --> 01:36.810\n市場在擔心會不會回歸到過去的.com的那樣子的一個泡沫化的危機我認為這些問題很重要的原因在於我們台灣如果未來政府要發展成為亞洲資產管理中心那\n\n01:37.250 --> 01:55.209\n我們的政府部門對於相關的系統性的風險一定要有所掌控那我想要了解畢竟你是跨產業而且你對於國際的情勢都要了解的那你是不是能給予我們國人一個說明\n\n01:56.660 --> 02:15.291\n第一个先跟委员报告就是说这一次的那一个AI的整个复苏跟2000年的那个.combubble有一点点不一样就是说.combubble它其实整个的发展过程当中并没有产生出很多的所谓的中断应用它那个产业\n\n02:16.272 --> 02:35.286\n拓展出來的其實沒有想像那麼多通常都是只是在一些網路上面比較多的一些應用這一次的AI這個部分來講的話其實它慢慢的我們會看到就是說它除了從雲端目前的發展的情況通常都在雲端也就是說很多的資料中心在建置它的算力\n\n02:35.726 --> 03:00.279\n那這個算力都是放在雲端那從雲端會慢慢的落實到中端所謂中端就會落實到我們的比如說筆電或者是我們的手機這樣的一個應用上面所以還有產業吧現在我們正在推動的就是我們傳產以及我們精密機械等等相關產業的AI的產線\n\n03:03.300 --> 03:26.728\n我們怎麼樣子擴大這個產線的應用那所以我才要要問的是主委現在目前那個美國的AI的新創公司他們的他們的那個產值已經到達了一兆的市值已經到達了一兆的美元但是都沒有產生相關的盈餘啊那\n\n03:27.788 --> 03:53.340\n這個東西對於美國他會不會有一些市場性整個有系統性的風險再加上現在地區銀行有發生了這樣子炸彈的這樣子的問題那會不會導致全部有一個系統在美國如果產生系統性的風險的時候會不會像過去2008年產生全球性的金融的這樣子危機\n\n03:54.621 --> 03:58.238\n是我想要請教主委的是不是你能就這個回答一下\n\n03:58.789 --> 04:26.921\n就这个部分来讲就是说很多新创产业在发展AI的很多应用那这个应用上面来讲的话它其实在财务操作上面来讲可能没有像以前的那个DakanBubble那么的杠杆倍数那么的高所以目前虽然说有一些有一些新创公司市值很高但是很亏损的一个情况的话可能可以经由所谓的市场上面的一些机制让这一些那你觉得现在AI的应用面广不广\n\n04:27.557 --> 04:55.855\n我觉得现在应用面还没有大家想象那么多但是它是持续的在成长当中那它的应用面在台湾的这个推广上面你觉得目前进展如何台湾的推转面上面来讲的话AI大概分两块一个是硬体跟软体那我们台湾的话就是硬体相对比较基础建设这边做得比较好但是软体上面来讲就软体应用上面来讲相对比较缺乏一些这样子\n\n04:56.055 --> 05:20.964\n好那我還要再問你因為你們是台積電的股東嘛對不對那就台積電我們目前我們擁有的是半導體的先進的技術那但是美國可能還對於半導體的整體的技術以及我們是製造的技術嘛美國是整個半導體的技術以及相關的設備等等的\n\n05:22.725 --> 05:47.477\n那我們如果去到美國我們現在要把它去到我們台積電要去到美國去投資那蕭副總統所說的到底是台灣的投資就是說台灣半導體企業的投資還是我們政府的投資他說去美國這樣子的聚落啊或者是這樣子的生態系已經已經形成了是不是\n\n05:49.097 --> 06:14.044\n基本上台積電去美國投資我們會把它當作是一個企業投資畢竟它是台灣的上市櫃公司只是說它把整個供應鏈都帶去了這個部分跟委員分享就是說這一次的方式跟以往就是說我們在全球化就是1980年代一直到2020年代這一段期間全球化有一個很大的一個差異性就是說美國的產業外移它是一整個產業鏈切一塊\n\n06:16.209 --> 06:30.127\n然后跑到那个东亚国家这边譬如说像半导体那这样的一个切分的一个方式在HarvardBusinessReview2009年有一篇文章在讨论就是说这样的一个切分方式其实对\n\n06:31.243 --> 06:56.265\n美國的製造業以及製造業的創新其實有非常大的一個傷害那我們這一次的方式跟他們其實有點不一樣我們雖然是整個產業鏈是複製過去而不是說整個切然後移到美國那邊去所以整個性質上面來講會有很大的一個差異性那在那一篇文章也非常強調就是說當你在整個供應鏈重組的過程當中的話\n\n06:57.666 --> 07:20.477\n是保留一些製造尤其是先進而且是關鍵的製造在本土的話其實對於本土的那一個創新其實有很大的幫助但是但是但是但是其實我們知道了雖然我們要到美國去可是目前他必須大量的仰賴台灣的科技人才那\n\n07:20.917 --> 07:40.635\n我們的科技人才如果都到美國去了其實如果就你們所說的我們台灣還留下最先進的製程的時候那我們的人才從哪裡而來那我們現在訓練了這麼多大量的人才會不會到時候就變成就在幫美國做\n\n07:41.776 --> 08:05.447\n職工訓練嘛是不是那我們自己台灣的最先進的N-1的這一代的台積電的還有相關的其他的AI的發展的相關的人才那我們怎麼辦呢那他如果大量的延攬我們的人才到美國去難道我們的大學就成為美國人才的訓練庫是不是\n\n08:06.348 --> 08:15.163\n跟我有報告我自己有幾個朋友是在台積電工作也有派到美國可是他們跟我講說他其實不太想出去因為美國其實\n\n08:16.721 --> 08:43.374\n有在美國生活過的其實很難去適應美國的生活方式還是台灣會比較好所以其實台積電扮演的一個角色其實是在幫美國建構他們自己本土的人才所以我們在這邊的話我們會當作就是說替全世界在台灣培育各國所需要的一些半導體的人才所以像台積電的話他在台中他就有一個類似一個Camp\n\n08:43.914 --> 08:47.347\n那這個Camp就是說你今天假如說外國人要派到\n\n08:48.058 --> 09:14.080\n日本或派到德國的話他會先來台灣受兩個月到三個月的一個training那完了之後再送回去所以委員擔心的這個部分的話目前來講看起來是沒有那一個跡象但這個部分當然我們要持續的去關注因為我們也不清楚就是說因為他還是你要建廠然後建廠如果只擔用美國的人才有時候也沒那麼快那要讓才能上線那也需要\n\n09:14.901 --> 09:39.332\n台灣的第一批的人才先過去所以我們當然擔心說你這樣子會把整個供應鏈那甚至如果所有的供應鏈都到美國去了那是會來在排擠方面會不會造成台灣的產業園區或科學園區空洞化那再來就是你都在補助像半導體相關的產業那我們現在所\n\n09:39.952 --> 10:08.066\n我們經濟成長所依賴的有部分是因為搶單有部分是因為232裡面半導體在搶單那未來台灣的這個中小型微企業那怎麼生存你的租賄優稅還有對於我們非半導體的傳產對於水電方面土地方面有沒有任何的協助這才是我們民眾想要關心的嘛是不是\n\n10:09.647 --> 10:31.224\n對啊你不能夠把整個都移到那裡人才都去那裡結果台灣的船產台灣的半導體還有未來AI的發展都沒有留下相關的科技人才也沒有對於相關的租稅土地還有水電等等給予台灣廠商尤其是最辛苦的船產給予他們協助啊是不是\n\n10:33.506 --> 10:57.888\n這個傳產這部分來講的話幾天前我剛剛有碰到工部長工部長有大概分享就是說他們目前就是說那一個特別預算通過之後有框了大概461讓中小企業開始去做一些升級轉型那他跟我分享是說還蠻踴躍的也就是說中小企業在這一波關稅的衝擊之下\n\n10:58.328 --> 11:18.316\n你不能只聽經濟部長你要有自己的看法除了他之外我當然還有收視意見你要聽委員的意見委員的意見也很重要你要聽委員的意見你怎麼會只聽工部長所以我大概跟委員分享說目前中小企業其實都還蠻積極在做AI的轉型以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.137,"end":13.957,"text":"好 謝謝主席我想要請我們國發會的葉主委好 我們再請葉主委"},{"start":19.668,"end":46.951,"text":"主委我想請教現在美國還有兩個地區的銀行發生了這樣子信貸的這個危機那我想要請問你對於美國整個銀行體系會不會有像2008年那樣子的一個整體的系統性的風險再加上目前美國他們"},{"start":48.052,"end":75.824,"text":"的股市裡面對於AI的泡沫化也提出了相關的事情因為有非常多新創的公司目前並沒有就是那些新創公司都是投資AI的相關產業但是他們的市值很高卻是沒有任何的盈餘那"},{"start":76.818,"end":96.81,"text":"市場在擔心會不會回歸到過去的.com的那樣子的一個泡沫化的危機我認為這些問題很重要的原因在於我們台灣如果未來政府要發展成為亞洲資產管理中心那"},{"start":97.25,"end":115.209,"text":"我們的政府部門對於相關的系統性的風險一定要有所掌控那我想要了解畢竟你是跨產業而且你對於國際的情勢都要了解的那你是不是能給予我們國人一個說明"},{"start":116.66,"end":135.291,"text":"第一个先跟委员报告就是说这一次的那一个AI的整个复苏跟2000年的那个.com bubble有一点点不一样就是说.com bubble它其实整个的发展过程当中并没有产生出很多的所谓的中断应用它那个产业"},{"start":136.272,"end":155.286,"text":"拓展出來的其實沒有想像那麼多通常都是只是在一些網路上面比較多的一些應用這一次的AI這個部分來講的話其實它慢慢的我們會看到就是說它除了從雲端目前的發展的情況通常都在雲端也就是說很多的資料中心在建置它的算力"},{"start":155.726,"end":180.279,"text":"那這個算力都是放在雲端那從雲端會慢慢的落實到中端所謂中端就會落實到我們的比如說筆電或者是我們的手機這樣的一個應用上面所以還有產業吧現在我們正在推動的就是我們傳產以及我們精密機械等等相關產業的AI的產線"},{"start":183.3,"end":206.728,"text":"我們怎麼樣子擴大這個產線的應用那所以我才要要問的是主委現在目前那個美國的AI的新創公司他們的他們的那個產值已經到達了一兆的市值已經到達了一兆的美元但是都沒有產生相關的盈餘啊那"},{"start":207.788,"end":233.34,"text":"這個東西對於美國他會不會有一些市場性整個有系統性的風險再加上現在地區銀行有發生了這樣子炸彈的這樣子的問題那會不會導致全部有一個系統在美國如果產生系統性的風險的時候會不會像過去2008年產生全球性的金融的這樣子危機"},{"start":234.621,"end":238.238,"text":"是我想要請教主委的是不是你能就這個回答一下"},{"start":238.789,"end":266.921,"text":"就这个部分来讲就是说很多新创产业在发展AI的很多应用那这个应用上面来讲的话它其实在财务操作上面来讲可能没有像以前的那个Dakan Bubble那么的杠杆倍数那么的高所以目前虽然说有一些有一些新创公司市值很高但是很亏损的一个情况的话可能可以经由所谓的市场上面的一些机制让这一些那你觉得现在AI的应用面广不广"},{"start":267.557,"end":295.855,"text":"我觉得现在应用面还没有大家想象那么多但是它是持续的在成长当中那它的应用面在台湾的这个推广上面你觉得目前进展如何台湾的推转面上面来讲的话AI大概分两块一个是硬体跟软体那我们台湾的话就是硬体相对比较基础建设这边做得比较好但是软体上面来讲就软体应用上面来讲相对比较缺乏一些这样子"},{"start":296.055,"end":320.964,"text":"好那我還要再問你因為你們是台積電的股東嘛對不對那就台積電我們目前我們擁有的是半導體的先進的技術那但是美國可能還對於半導體的整體的技術以及我們是製造的技術嘛美國是整個半導體的技術以及相關的設備等等的"},{"start":322.725,"end":347.477,"text":"那我們如果去到美國我們現在要把它去到我們台積電要去到美國去投資那蕭副總統所說的到底是台灣的投資就是說台灣半導體企業的投資還是我們政府的投資他說去美國這樣子的聚落啊或者是這樣子的生態系已經已經形成了是不是"},{"start":349.097,"end":374.044,"text":"基本上台積電去美國投資我們會把它當作是一個企業投資畢竟它是台灣的上市櫃公司只是說它把整個供應鏈都帶去了這個部分跟委員分享就是說這一次的方式跟以往就是說我們在全球化就是1980年代一直到2020年代這一段期間全球化有一個很大的一個差異性就是說美國的產業外移它是一整個產業鏈切一塊"},{"start":376.209,"end":390.127,"text":"然后跑到那个东亚国家这边譬如说像半导体那这样的一个切分的一个方式在Harvard Business Review2009年有一篇文章在讨论就是说这样的一个切分方式其实对"},{"start":391.243,"end":416.265,"text":"美國的製造業以及製造業的創新其實有非常大的一個傷害那我們這一次的方式跟他們其實有點不一樣我們雖然是整個產業鏈是複製過去而不是說整個切然後移到美國那邊去所以整個性質上面來講會有很大的一個差異性那在那一篇文章也非常強調就是說當你在整個供應鏈重組的過程當中的話"},{"start":417.666,"end":440.477,"text":"是保留一些製造尤其是先進而且是關鍵的製造在本土的話其實對於本土的那一個創新其實有很大的幫助但是但是但是但是其實我們知道了雖然我們要到美國去可是目前他必須大量的仰賴台灣的科技人才那"},{"start":440.917,"end":460.635,"text":"我們的科技人才如果都到美國去了其實如果就你們所說的我們台灣還留下最先進的製程的時候那我們的人才從哪裡而來那我們現在訓練了這麼多大量的人才會不會到時候就變成就在幫美國做"},{"start":461.776,"end":485.447,"text":"職工訓練嘛是不是那我們自己台灣的最先進的N-1的這一代的台積電的還有相關的其他的AI的發展的相關的人才那我們怎麼辦呢那他如果大量的延攬我們的人才到美國去難道我們的大學就成為美國人才的訓練庫是不是"},{"start":486.348,"end":495.163,"text":"跟我有報告我自己有幾個朋友是在台積電工作也有派到美國可是他們跟我講說他其實不太想出去因為美國其實"},{"start":496.721,"end":523.374,"text":"有在美國生活過的其實很難去適應美國的生活方式還是台灣會比較好所以其實台積電扮演的一個角色其實是在幫美國建構他們自己本土的人才所以我們在這邊的話我們會當作就是說替全世界在台灣培育各國所需要的一些半導體的人才所以像台積電的話他在台中他就有一個類似一個Camp"},{"start":523.914,"end":527.347,"text":"那這個Camp就是說你今天假如說外國人要派到"},{"start":528.058,"end":554.08,"text":"日本或派到德國的話他會先來台灣受兩個月到三個月的一個training那完了之後再送回去所以委員擔心的這個部分的話目前來講看起來是沒有那一個跡象但這個部分當然我們要持續的去關注因為我們也不清楚就是說因為他還是你要建廠然後建廠如果只擔用美國的人才有時候也沒那麼快那要讓才能上線那也需要"},{"start":554.901,"end":579.332,"text":"台灣的第一批的人才先過去所以我們當然擔心說你這樣子會把整個供應鏈那甚至如果所有的供應鏈都到美國去了那是會來在排擠方面會不會造成台灣的產業園區或科學園區空洞化那再來就是你都在補助像半導體相關的產業那我們現在所"},{"start":579.952,"end":608.066,"text":"我們經濟成長所依賴的有部分是因為搶單有部分是因為232裡面半導體在搶單那未來台灣的這個中小型微企業那怎麼生存你的租賄優稅還有對於我們非半導體的傳產對於水電方面土地方面有沒有任何的協助這才是我們民眾想要關心的嘛是不是"},{"start":609.647,"end":631.224,"text":"對啊 你不能夠把整個都移到那裡 人才都去那裡結果台灣的船產 台灣的半導體還有未來AI的發展 都沒有留下相關的科技人才也沒有對於相關的租稅 土地 還有水電等等給予台灣廠商 尤其是最辛苦的船產給予他們協助啊 是不是"},{"start":633.506,"end":657.888,"text":"這個傳產這部分來講的話幾天前我剛剛有碰到工部長工部長有大概分享就是說他們目前就是說那一個特別預算通過之後有框了大概461讓中小企業開始去做一些升級轉型那他跟我分享是說還蠻踴躍的也就是說中小企業在這一波關稅的衝擊之下"},{"start":658.328,"end":678.316,"text":"你不能只聽經濟部長你要有自己的看法除了他之外我當然還有收視意見你要聽委員的意見委員的意見也很重要你要聽委員的意見你怎麼會只聽工部長所以我大概跟委員分享說目前中小企業其實都還蠻積極在做AI的轉型以上 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":209,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（9時55分）謝謝主席，我想請國發會葉主委。"],["主席：好，我們再請葉主委。"],["葉主任委員俊顯：委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：主委，我想請教，現在美國有兩個地區的銀行發生了信貸的危機，所以我想請問你，對於美國整個銀行體系會不會又像2008年那樣發生整體系統性的風險？再加上目前在美國的股市裡面，對於AI泡沫化也提出了相關的示警，因為有非常多的新創公司目前並沒有……那些新創公司都是投資AI的相關產業，他們的市值很高但卻沒有任何盈餘，市場在擔心會不會回歸到過去「Dot-com」那樣子泡沫化的危機。","我認為這些問題很重要的原因在於，我們臺灣如果未來政府要發展成為亞洲資產管理中心，我們的政府部門對於相關的系統性風險一定要有所掌控，所以我想要瞭解，畢竟你是跨產業的，而且你對於國際的情勢都是要瞭解的，那你是不是能給予我們國人一個說明？"],["葉主任委員俊顯：第一個，要先跟委員報告，這次AI的復甦跟2000年的「Dot-com bubble」有一點點不一樣，Dot-com 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Kacaw","鄭正鈐","陳超明","黃國昌","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","徐富癸","劉建國","林楚茵"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148601_00001"}}}