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\"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"蘇\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 551.775, \"end\": 551.875, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"泉\", \"start\": 551.875, \"end\": 552.015, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 552.015, \"end\": 552.095, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 552.095, \"end\": 552.115, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,174 --> 00:00:29,575\n好謝謝謝謝主席那我請彭部長請彭部長還有我們伙務部副司長林黛麗好蘇委員好部長最近辛苦了謝謝多謝希望這樣沒到外國去玩最近是你最痛苦的時候不過我還是要跟環境部加油啦環境部表現非常好\n\n2\n00:00:32,178 --> 00:00:51,792\n承諾的事情都有做到只是時間晚一點謝謝好我現在問你兩個嚴肅的問題第一個就是是不是以後的光電板都要做環評因為你講的都一下子有一下子沒有一下子要急工程你現在在這邊講清楚的表達\n\n3\n00:00:53,413 --> 00:01:20,219\n所有的光電板是不是都要做環評好謝謝委員因為我們過去其實1月的時候也謝謝委員給我們很多的建議所以我們1月的時候有發布的確有加研然後也有在敏感區域或是山坡地都有一個規範所以委員關心到屏東那個案場其實我相信未來不可能會發生而且屏東三寶其實我們也把它退回去了所以其實我們這個的態度是堅定的但是因為我如果水面型的話\n\n4\n00:01:20,839 --> 00:01:42,779\n他目前全世界目前還沒有那所以我們現在的確是在研議當中那我希望快的話在我們的細則在年底或是明年初如果研議的出來的話我們就會希望能夠在水面型的光電有一個環評的機制好那第二個問題就是剛剛你講的水庫水池滯洪池\n\n5\n00:01:44,481 --> 00:02:06,169\n這些上面要擺光電板這次在嘉義就是發生這就是滯洪池六十幾公頃我們都去看了看了兩次了那到處的水池都要滯洪池都要再放光電板我們屏東那個農科研區有三個滯洪池現在有其中一個也要開始了那雞屎頭都流進去了都流進去了\n\n6\n00:02:10,765 --> 00:02:34,511\n滯洪池的問題那麼多要做環評要不要做環評剛剛講什麼時候可以給我們一個期程確定要不要環評包委滯洪池是屬於水面型的光電我們是希望說我們現在十月底有一個類似徵求意見然後我們希望未來兩個月年底之前希望有一個\n\n7\n00:02:35,211 --> 00:03:03,565\n到底多少的數字需要環比的數字出來我是希望年底前或是到一月的時候可以正式來公告不過因為委員那個像嘉義的案例因為我們有觀察過有些的滯洪池沒事有些滯洪池有事那其實跟他的這個強度是有關係的所以未來呢因為經濟部他們也有承諾說在一些規範上面施工的部分都要有一些規範他們要有已經有去檢查過了所以我相信這個兩個方式來進行應該有辦法避免像這樣的問題\n\n8\n00:03:04,685 --> 00:03:29,807\n自己的我看是因為剛好風靠啦風太大風靠這樣漏進來所以一片這樣所以都騷擾起來你又沒辦法做什麼風洞實驗室你又沒辦法你跟人家看風水而已你又不是殯董人啊像我也要看看烏鷹看魂物在哪裡我們現在改革後都要看咧塞巴河在哪裡啊海底來的魂在哪裡到那邊喝大水的\n\n9\n00:03:31,528 --> 00:03:56,806\n自己要練了一生武功啊不然的話你在養魚魚就死了所以這個縫隙啦這個做這個環評的補分是不是要加強說醫療你要關心那麽到好你要要看天象這樣喔後庭是這就我討論這個現在其實如果環評的程序連這個就要把它考慮在裡面啦齁啊現在就是委員關心的就是多大面積啊這個我們會會來研議啦對啦你現在\n\n10\n00:04:01,365 --> 00:04:26,616\n因為如果我看起來風太大那你的自動池上面的那個實際脆弱啦真的是蠻脆弱的好那我現在第二個問題就是我們現在很多這些光電公司上上個禮拜在內埔說在公墓上面要蓋太陽能板啊在說明會的時候那些船長要去修葡邊渡\n\n11\n00:04:29,574 --> 00:04:47,554\n加這個我還沒到現場就變了怎麼又沒了我還在想什麼那現在一個問題就是我們這些能源業者在辦說明會他又去邀請一些社區環保團體啦或者是社區活動的啦\n\n12\n00:04:51,298 --> 00:05:13,851\n協會藉由這裡的肥料帶人來聽聽這是好事啦但是就像剛才說的船長要去修法如果你說你要協會現在這個環保業者現在這裡的風能源業者去幫你贊助贊助就讓他們去辦活動辦路由現在後來還有意見來說說他是環保蟑螂\n\n13\n00:05:19,315 --> 00:05:36,872\n就用情緒勒索我來贊助的也有人去用移送法辦我要請問法務部你們這個界定的標準是什麼那這些環保業者那這些能源業者我在想是套養殺我們法務部立場是怎樣\n\n14\n00:05:44,033 --> 00:05:57,150\n呃這個有關於環境評估的話這個應該我們尊重這個環境部他們的專業評呃他們的專業判斷啊那至於說現場的秩序的話我想這個是個案我們就\n\n15\n00:05:58,133 --> 00:06:14,249\n不是突然喔大家都疲累了紡遼鄉那邊有一個貧囊工業區因為東海村最底層剩下這幾十九年去把這些青雙去把他們抵銀金以前叫做抵銀金抵抵抵青雙如果不送就要替他補不說你在抄詐勒索什麼\n\n16\n00:06:24,005 --> 00:06:49,662\n那這些環保業者如出一策還有我們的民意代表你要好好回答喔這大家都在看民意代表說萬一選舉的時候要贊助他們都是正常的喔公開說都抱感染力的現在把他們站起來贊助我們在外國也有人這樣對著的所以很困擾要像中情形\n\n17\n00:06:50,987 --> 00:07:05,043\n反倒回來說它是環保障礙這樣就環保黑道華府的觀念想法是怎麼樣明確的跟我們講一下沒有辦法明確至少要給我們開示一下因為大家都很睏了\n\n18\n00:07:06,916 --> 00:07:32,896\n謝謝委員垂詢那就剛才我想那個部長也一直提到我們有一個跨部會平台那這個平台是在行政院政務委員林明熙政務委員他這邊來做一個協調那就剛才委員垂詢到的有關於政治獻金的部分的話我想如果依照政治獻金法相關的規定的話\n\n19\n00:07:35,382 --> 00:07:43,521\n應該就是我們法務部這邊也尊重尊重沒有啦這位民運代表說話總有百思啦\n\n20\n00:07:45,922 --> 00:08:03,415\n地理就是說這個社團這個廟宇它會怕啦因為正經也有人往上上場以後又去犯罪犯罪以後一心二心沒辦法回來但是它會怕很受傷啦所以不得不說像這種能源業者他這樣做他是\n\n21\n00:08:07,113 --> 00:08:35,948\n郭家拍電影以前兩個都兩張雙咖啡啦對阿對阿把你把你把你鎮著鎮著這樣如果你要怎樣就說你這個在拉手阿所以這是很困擾的事情啦所以這個部長你你如果我有做環評就沒有這些事了啦你每一件都給他做環評就沒有這些事了啦一公頃兩公頃他還好每天這樣蠶食精吞這樣你敢不敢看你啦所以你的好啦\n\n22\n00:08:37,898 --> 00:08:56,466\n其實報告委員環評沒有辦法完全禁止啦這是社會的問題這種環保的蟑螂或是這種說敗類其實我們現在濫肯濫法的多的是所以我們現在很積極的沒有顏色如果有犯罪我們有證據就會抓然後另外一個是說我們跟法務部有一個平台\n\n23\n00:08:57,286 --> 00:09:12,115\n跟那個是林明熙政委在處理的所以我們現在針對這個是很清楚的界線啦所以委員我們可以如果委員有具體的案例歡迎給我們我們會絕對請我們檢警還調的平台來法辦明天總執行再好好的請教你跟院長好謝謝謝謝蘇清泉委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6174\t29575\t好 謝謝 謝謝主席那我請彭部長請彭部長還有我們伙務部副司長林黛麗好 蘇委員好部長 最近辛苦了謝謝 多謝希望這樣沒到外國去玩最近是你最痛苦的時候不過我還是要跟環境部加油啦環境部表現非常好\n32178\t51792\t承諾的事情都有做到只是時間晚一點謝謝好我現在問你兩個嚴肅的問題第一個就是是不是以後的光電板都要做環評因為你講的都一下子有一下子沒有一下子要急工程你現在在這邊講清楚的表達\n53413\t80219\t所有的光電板是不是都要做環評好 謝謝委員因為我們過去其實1月的時候也謝謝委員給我們很多的建議所以我們1月的時候有發布的確有加研然後也有在敏感區域或是山坡地都有一個規範所以委員關心到屏東那個案場其實我相信未來不可能會發生而且屏東三寶其實我們也把它退回去了所以其實我們這個的態度是堅定的但是因為我如果水面型的話\n80839\t102779\t他目前全世界目前還沒有那所以我們現在的確是在研議當中那我希望快的話在我們的細則在年底或是明年初如果研議的出來的話我們就會希望能夠在水面型的光電有一個環評的機制好那第二個問題就是剛剛你講的水庫 水池 滯洪池\n104481\t126169\t這些上面要擺光電板這次在嘉義就是發生這就是滯洪池六十幾公頃我們都去看了 看了兩次了那到處的水池都要滯洪池都要再放光電板我們屏東那個農科研區有三個滯洪池現在有其中一個也要開始了那雞屎頭都流進去了都流進去了\n130765\t154511\t滯洪池的問題那麼多要做環評 要不要做環評 剛剛講什麼時候可以給我們一個期程確定要不要環評包委 滯洪池是屬於水面型的光電我們是希望說我們現在十月底有一個類似徵求意見然後我們希望未來兩個月年底之前希望有一個\n155211\t183565\t到底多少的數字需要環比的數字出來我是希望年底前或是到一月的時候可以正式來公告不過因為委員那個像嘉義的案例因為我們有觀察過有些的滯洪池沒事有些滯洪池有事那其實跟他的這個強度是有關係的所以未來呢因為經濟部他們也有承諾說在一些規範上面施工的部分都要有一些規範他們要有已經有去檢查過了所以我相信這個兩個方式來進行應該有辦法避免像這樣的問題\n184685\t209807\t自己的我看是 因為剛好風靠啦風太大 風靠這樣漏進來所以一片這樣 所以都騷擾起來你又沒辦法做什麼風洞實驗室你又沒辦法 你跟人家看風水而已你又不是殯董人啊像我也要看 看烏鷹 看魂物在哪裡我們現在改革後 都要看咧塞巴河在哪裡啊 海底來的魂在哪裡 到那邊喝大水的\n211528\t236806\t自己要練了一生武功啊不然的話 你在養魚 魚就死了所以這個縫隙啦 這個做這個環評的補分是不是要加強說 醫療你要關心那麽到好你要要看天象這樣喔 後庭 是這就我討論這個現在其實如果環評的程序連這個就要把它考慮在裡面啦齁啊現在就是委員關心的就是多大面積啊這個我們會會來研議啦對啦 你現在\n241365\t266616\t因為如果我看起來風太大那你的自動池上面的那個實際脆弱啦真的是蠻脆弱的好那我現在第二個問題就是我們現在很多這些光電公司上上個禮拜在內埔說在公墓上面要蓋太陽能板啊在說明會的時候那些船長要去修葡邊渡\n269574\t287554\t加這個我還沒到現場就變了 怎麼又沒了我還在想什麼那現在一個問題就是我們這些能源業者在辦說明會他又去邀請一些社區環保團體啦或者是社區活動的啦\n291298\t313851\t協會藉由這裡的肥料 帶人來聽聽這是好事啦但是就像剛才說的 船長要去修法如果你說你要協會 現在這個環保業者現在這裡的風 能源業者去幫你贊助贊助 就讓他們去辦活動 辦路由現在後來還有意見來說 說他是環保蟑螂\n319315\t336872\t就用情緒勒索 我來贊助的也有人去用移送法辦我要請問法務部你們這個界定的標準是什麼那這些環保業者那這些能源業者 我在想是套養殺我們法務部立場是怎樣\n344033\t357150\t呃這個有關於環境評估的話這個應該我們尊重這個環境部他們的專業評呃他們的專業判斷啊那至於說現場的秩序的話我想這個是個案我們就\n358133\t374249\t不是突然喔 大家都疲累了 紡遼鄉那邊有一個貧囊工業區因為東海村 最底層 剩下這幾十九年去把這些青雙 去把他們抵銀金 以前叫做抵銀金 抵抵抵青雙如果不送 就要替他補 不說你在抄詐勒索什麼\n384005\t409662\t那這些環保業者如出一策還有 我們的民意代表你要好好回答喔這大家都在看民意代表說萬一選舉的時候要贊助他們都是正常的喔 公開說 都抱感染力的現在把他們站起來贊助我們在外國也有人這樣對著的所以很困擾 要像中情形\n410987\t425043\t反倒回來 說它是環保障礙 這樣就環保黑道華府的觀念 想法是怎麼樣 明確的跟我們講一下沒有辦法明確 至少要給我們開示一下 因為大家都很睏了\n426916\t452896\t謝謝委員垂詢那就剛才我想那個部長也一直提到我們有一個跨部會平台那這個平台是在行政院政務委員林明熙政務委員他這邊來做一個協調那就剛才委員垂詢到的有關於政治獻金的部分的話我想如果依照政治獻金法相關的規定的話\n455382\t463521\t應該就是我們法務部這邊也尊重尊重沒有啦 這位民運代表說話總有百思啦\n465922\t483415\t地理就是說這個社團 這個廟宇 它會怕啦因為正經也有人往上 上場以後又去犯罪犯罪以後 一心二心沒辦法回來但是它會怕很受傷啦所以不得不說 像這種能源業者 他這樣做 他是\n487113\t515948\t郭家拍電影以前兩個都兩張雙咖啡啦對阿 對阿 把你 把你 把你鎮著鎮著這樣如果你要怎樣就說你這個在拉手阿所以這是很困擾的事情啦所以這個部長你你如果我有做環評就沒有這些事了啦你每一件都給他做環評就沒有這些事了啦一公頃兩公頃他還好每天這樣蠶食精吞這樣你敢不敢看你啦所以你的 好啦\n517898\t536466\t其實報告委員 環評沒有辦法完全禁止啦這是社會的問題這種環保的蟑螂或是這種說敗類其實我們現在濫肯濫法的多的是所以我們現在很積極的沒有顏色如果有犯罪我們有證據就會抓然後另外一個是說我們跟法務部有一個平台\n537286\t552115\t跟那個是林明熙政委在處理的所以我們現在針對這個是很清楚的界線啦所以委員我們可以如果委員有具體的案例歡迎給我們我們會絕對請我們檢警還調的平台來法辦明天總執行再好好的請教你跟院長好謝謝謝謝蘇清泉委員發言\n","txt":"好 謝謝 謝謝主席那我請彭部長請彭部長還有我們伙務部副司長林黛麗好 蘇委員好部長 最近辛苦了謝謝 多謝希望這樣沒到外國去玩最近是你最痛苦的時候不過我還是要跟環境部加油啦環境部表現非常好\n承諾的事情都有做到只是時間晚一點謝謝好我現在問你兩個嚴肅的問題第一個就是是不是以後的光電板都要做環評因為你講的都一下子有一下子沒有一下子要急工程你現在在這邊講清楚的表達\n所有的光電板是不是都要做環評好 謝謝委員因為我們過去其實1月的時候也謝謝委員給我們很多的建議所以我們1月的時候有發布的確有加研然後也有在敏感區域或是山坡地都有一個規範所以委員關心到屏東那個案場其實我相信未來不可能會發生而且屏東三寶其實我們也把它退回去了所以其實我們這個的態度是堅定的但是因為我如果水面型的話\n他目前全世界目前還沒有那所以我們現在的確是在研議當中那我希望快的話在我們的細則在年底或是明年初如果研議的出來的話我們就會希望能夠在水面型的光電有一個環評的機制好那第二個問題就是剛剛你講的水庫 水池 滯洪池\n這些上面要擺光電板這次在嘉義就是發生這就是滯洪池六十幾公頃我們都去看了 看了兩次了那到處的水池都要滯洪池都要再放光電板我們屏東那個農科研區有三個滯洪池現在有其中一個也要開始了那雞屎頭都流進去了都流進去了\n滯洪池的問題那麼多要做環評 要不要做環評 剛剛講什麼時候可以給我們一個期程確定要不要環評包委 滯洪池是屬於水面型的光電我們是希望說我們現在十月底有一個類似徵求意見然後我們希望未來兩個月年底之前希望有一個\n到底多少的數字需要環比的數字出來我是希望年底前或是到一月的時候可以正式來公告不過因為委員那個像嘉義的案例因為我們有觀察過有些的滯洪池沒事有些滯洪池有事那其實跟他的這個強度是有關係的所以未來呢因為經濟部他們也有承諾說在一些規範上面施工的部分都要有一些規範他們要有已經有去檢查過了所以我相信這個兩個方式來進行應該有辦法避免像這樣的問題\n自己的我看是 因為剛好風靠啦風太大 風靠這樣漏進來所以一片這樣 所以都騷擾起來你又沒辦法做什麼風洞實驗室你又沒辦法 你跟人家看風水而已你又不是殯董人啊像我也要看 看烏鷹 看魂物在哪裡我們現在改革後 都要看咧塞巴河在哪裡啊 海底來的魂在哪裡 到那邊喝大水的\n自己要練了一生武功啊不然的話 你在養魚 魚就死了所以這個縫隙啦 這個做這個環評的補分是不是要加強說 醫療你要關心那麽到好你要要看天象這樣喔 後庭 是這就我討論這個現在其實如果環評的程序連這個就要把它考慮在裡面啦齁啊現在就是委員關心的就是多大面積啊這個我們會會來研議啦對啦 你現在\n因為如果我看起來風太大那你的自動池上面的那個實際脆弱啦真的是蠻脆弱的好那我現在第二個問題就是我們現在很多這些光電公司上上個禮拜在內埔說在公墓上面要蓋太陽能板啊在說明會的時候那些船長要去修葡邊渡\n加這個我還沒到現場就變了 怎麼又沒了我還在想什麼那現在一個問題就是我們這些能源業者在辦說明會他又去邀請一些社區環保團體啦或者是社區活動的啦\n協會藉由這裡的肥料 帶人來聽聽這是好事啦但是就像剛才說的 船長要去修法如果你說你要協會 現在這個環保業者現在這裡的風 能源業者去幫你贊助贊助 就讓他們去辦活動 辦路由現在後來還有意見來說 說他是環保蟑螂\n就用情緒勒索 我來贊助的也有人去用移送法辦我要請問法務部你們這個界定的標準是什麼那這些環保業者那這些能源業者 我在想是套養殺我們法務部立場是怎樣\n呃這個有關於環境評估的話這個應該我們尊重這個環境部他們的專業評呃他們的專業判斷啊那至於說現場的秩序的話我想這個是個案我們就\n不是突然喔 大家都疲累了 紡遼鄉那邊有一個貧囊工業區因為東海村 最底層 剩下這幾十九年去把這些青雙 去把他們抵銀金 以前叫做抵銀金 抵抵抵青雙如果不送 就要替他補 不說你在抄詐勒索什麼\n那這些環保業者如出一策還有 我們的民意代表你要好好回答喔這大家都在看民意代表說萬一選舉的時候要贊助他們都是正常的喔 公開說 都抱感染力的現在把他們站起來贊助我們在外國也有人這樣對著的所以很困擾 要像中情形\n反倒回來 說它是環保障礙 這樣就環保黑道華府的觀念 想法是怎麼樣 明確的跟我們講一下沒有辦法明確 至少要給我們開示一下 因為大家都很睏了\n謝謝委員垂詢那就剛才我想那個部長也一直提到我們有一個跨部會平台那這個平台是在行政院政務委員林明熙政務委員他這邊來做一個協調那就剛才委員垂詢到的有關於政治獻金的部分的話我想如果依照政治獻金法相關的規定的話\n應該就是我們法務部這邊也尊重尊重沒有啦 這位民運代表說話總有百思啦\n地理就是說這個社團 這個廟宇 它會怕啦因為正經也有人往上 上場以後又去犯罪犯罪以後 一心二心沒辦法回來但是它會怕很受傷啦所以不得不說 像這種能源業者 他這樣做 他是\n郭家拍電影以前兩個都兩張雙咖啡啦對阿 對阿 把你 把你 把你鎮著鎮著這樣如果你要怎樣就說你這個在拉手阿所以這是很困擾的事情啦所以這個部長你你如果我有做環評就沒有這些事了啦你每一件都給他做環評就沒有這些事了啦一公頃兩公頃他還好每天這樣蠶食精吞這樣你敢不敢看你啦所以你的 好啦\n其實報告委員 環評沒有辦法完全禁止啦這是社會的問題這種環保的蟑螂或是這種說敗類其實我們現在濫肯濫法的多的是所以我們現在很積極的沒有顏色如果有犯罪我們有證據就會抓然後另外一個是說我們跟法務部有一個平台\n跟那個是林明熙政委在處理的所以我們現在針對這個是很清楚的界線啦所以委員我們可以如果委員有具體的案例歡迎給我們我們會絕對請我們檢警還調的平台來法辦明天總執行再好好的請教你跟院長好謝謝謝謝蘇清泉委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.174 --> 00:29.575\n好謝謝謝謝主席那我請彭部長請彭部長還有我們伙務部副司長林黛麗好蘇委員好部長最近辛苦了謝謝多謝希望這樣沒到外國去玩最近是你最痛苦的時候不過我還是要跟環境部加油啦環境部表現非常好\n\n00:32.178 --> 00:51.792\n承諾的事情都有做到只是時間晚一點謝謝好我現在問你兩個嚴肅的問題第一個就是是不是以後的光電板都要做環評因為你講的都一下子有一下子沒有一下子要急工程你現在在這邊講清楚的表達\n\n00:53.413 --> 01:20.219\n所有的光電板是不是都要做環評好謝謝委員因為我們過去其實1月的時候也謝謝委員給我們很多的建議所以我們1月的時候有發布的確有加研然後也有在敏感區域或是山坡地都有一個規範所以委員關心到屏東那個案場其實我相信未來不可能會發生而且屏東三寶其實我們也把它退回去了所以其實我們這個的態度是堅定的但是因為我如果水面型的話\n\n01:20.839 --> 01:42.779\n他目前全世界目前還沒有那所以我們現在的確是在研議當中那我希望快的話在我們的細則在年底或是明年初如果研議的出來的話我們就會希望能夠在水面型的光電有一個環評的機制好那第二個問題就是剛剛你講的水庫水池滯洪池\n\n01:44.481 --> 02:06.169\n這些上面要擺光電板這次在嘉義就是發生這就是滯洪池六十幾公頃我們都去看了看了兩次了那到處的水池都要滯洪池都要再放光電板我們屏東那個農科研區有三個滯洪池現在有其中一個也要開始了那雞屎頭都流進去了都流進去了\n\n02:10.765 --> 02:34.511\n滯洪池的問題那麼多要做環評要不要做環評剛剛講什麼時候可以給我們一個期程確定要不要環評包委滯洪池是屬於水面型的光電我們是希望說我們現在十月底有一個類似徵求意見然後我們希望未來兩個月年底之前希望有一個\n\n02:35.211 --> 03:03.565\n到底多少的數字需要環比的數字出來我是希望年底前或是到一月的時候可以正式來公告不過因為委員那個像嘉義的案例因為我們有觀察過有些的滯洪池沒事有些滯洪池有事那其實跟他的這個強度是有關係的所以未來呢因為經濟部他們也有承諾說在一些規範上面施工的部分都要有一些規範他們要有已經有去檢查過了所以我相信這個兩個方式來進行應該有辦法避免像這樣的問題\n\n03:04.685 --> 03:29.807\n自己的我看是因為剛好風靠啦風太大風靠這樣漏進來所以一片這樣所以都騷擾起來你又沒辦法做什麼風洞實驗室你又沒辦法你跟人家看風水而已你又不是殯董人啊像我也要看看烏鷹看魂物在哪裡我們現在改革後都要看咧塞巴河在哪裡啊海底來的魂在哪裡到那邊喝大水的\n\n03:31.528 --> 03:56.806\n自己要練了一生武功啊不然的話你在養魚魚就死了所以這個縫隙啦這個做這個環評的補分是不是要加強說醫療你要關心那麽到好你要要看天象這樣喔後庭是這就我討論這個現在其實如果環評的程序連這個就要把它考慮在裡面啦齁啊現在就是委員關心的就是多大面積啊這個我們會會來研議啦對啦你現在\n\n04:01.365 --> 04:26.616\n因為如果我看起來風太大那你的自動池上面的那個實際脆弱啦真的是蠻脆弱的好那我現在第二個問題就是我們現在很多這些光電公司上上個禮拜在內埔說在公墓上面要蓋太陽能板啊在說明會的時候那些船長要去修葡邊渡\n\n04:29.574 --> 04:47.554\n加這個我還沒到現場就變了怎麼又沒了我還在想什麼那現在一個問題就是我們這些能源業者在辦說明會他又去邀請一些社區環保團體啦或者是社區活動的啦\n\n04:51.298 --> 05:13.851\n協會藉由這裡的肥料帶人來聽聽這是好事啦但是就像剛才說的船長要去修法如果你說你要協會現在這個環保業者現在這裡的風能源業者去幫你贊助贊助就讓他們去辦活動辦路由現在後來還有意見來說說他是環保蟑螂\n\n05:19.315 --> 05:36.872\n就用情緒勒索我來贊助的也有人去用移送法辦我要請問法務部你們這個界定的標準是什麼那這些環保業者那這些能源業者我在想是套養殺我們法務部立場是怎樣\n\n05:44.033 --> 05:57.150\n呃這個有關於環境評估的話這個應該我們尊重這個環境部他們的專業評呃他們的專業判斷啊那至於說現場的秩序的話我想這個是個案我們就\n\n05:58.133 --> 06:14.249\n不是突然喔大家都疲累了紡遼鄉那邊有一個貧囊工業區因為東海村最底層剩下這幾十九年去把這些青雙去把他們抵銀金以前叫做抵銀金抵抵抵青雙如果不送就要替他補不說你在抄詐勒索什麼\n\n06:24.005 --> 06:49.662\n那這些環保業者如出一策還有我們的民意代表你要好好回答喔這大家都在看民意代表說萬一選舉的時候要贊助他們都是正常的喔公開說都抱感染力的現在把他們站起來贊助我們在外國也有人這樣對著的所以很困擾要像中情形\n\n06:50.987 --> 07:05.043\n反倒回來說它是環保障礙這樣就環保黑道華府的觀念想法是怎麼樣明確的跟我們講一下沒有辦法明確至少要給我們開示一下因為大家都很睏了\n\n07:06.916 --> 07:32.896\n謝謝委員垂詢那就剛才我想那個部長也一直提到我們有一個跨部會平台那這個平台是在行政院政務委員林明熙政務委員他這邊來做一個協調那就剛才委員垂詢到的有關於政治獻金的部分的話我想如果依照政治獻金法相關的規定的話\n\n07:35.382 --> 07:43.521\n應該就是我們法務部這邊也尊重尊重沒有啦這位民運代表說話總有百思啦\n\n07:45.922 --> 08:03.415\n地理就是說這個社團這個廟宇它會怕啦因為正經也有人往上上場以後又去犯罪犯罪以後一心二心沒辦法回來但是它會怕很受傷啦所以不得不說像這種能源業者他這樣做他是\n\n08:07.113 --> 08:35.948\n郭家拍電影以前兩個都兩張雙咖啡啦對阿對阿把你把你把你鎮著鎮著這樣如果你要怎樣就說你這個在拉手阿所以這是很困擾的事情啦所以這個部長你你如果我有做環評就沒有這些事了啦你每一件都給他做環評就沒有這些事了啦一公頃兩公頃他還好每天這樣蠶食精吞這樣你敢不敢看你啦所以你的好啦\n\n08:37.898 --> 08:56.466\n其實報告委員環評沒有辦法完全禁止啦這是社會的問題這種環保的蟑螂或是這種說敗類其實我們現在濫肯濫法的多的是所以我們現在很積極的沒有顏色如果有犯罪我們有證據就會抓然後另外一個是說我們跟法務部有一個平台\n\n08:57.286 --> 09:12.115\n跟那個是林明熙政委在處理的所以我們現在針對這個是很清楚的界線啦所以委員我們可以如果委員有具體的案例歡迎給我們我們會絕對請我們檢警還調的平台來法辦明天總執行再好好的請教你跟院長好謝謝謝謝蘇清泉委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.174,"end":29.575,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝主席那我請彭部長請彭部長還有我們伙務部副司長林黛麗好 蘇委員好部長 最近辛苦了謝謝 多謝希望這樣沒到外國去玩最近是你最痛苦的時候不過我還是要跟環境部加油啦環境部表現非常好"},{"start":32.178,"end":51.792,"text":"承諾的事情都有做到只是時間晚一點謝謝好我現在問你兩個嚴肅的問題第一個就是是不是以後的光電板都要做環評因為你講的都一下子有一下子沒有一下子要急工程你現在在這邊講清楚的表達"},{"start":53.413,"end":80.219,"text":"所有的光電板是不是都要做環評好 謝謝委員因為我們過去其實1月的時候也謝謝委員給我們很多的建議所以我們1月的時候有發布的確有加研然後也有在敏感區域或是山坡地都有一個規範所以委員關心到屏東那個案場其實我相信未來不可能會發生而且屏東三寶其實我們也把它退回去了所以其實我們這個的態度是堅定的但是因為我如果水面型的話"},{"start":80.839,"end":102.779,"text":"他目前全世界目前還沒有那所以我們現在的確是在研議當中那我希望快的話在我們的細則在年底或是明年初如果研議的出來的話我們就會希望能夠在水面型的光電有一個環評的機制好那第二個問題就是剛剛你講的水庫 水池 滯洪池"},{"start":104.481,"end":126.169,"text":"這些上面要擺光電板這次在嘉義就是發生這就是滯洪池六十幾公頃我們都去看了 看了兩次了那到處的水池都要滯洪池都要再放光電板我們屏東那個農科研區有三個滯洪池現在有其中一個也要開始了那雞屎頭都流進去了都流進去了"},{"start":130.765,"end":154.511,"text":"滯洪池的問題那麼多要做環評 要不要做環評 剛剛講什麼時候可以給我們一個期程確定要不要環評包委 滯洪池是屬於水面型的光電我們是希望說我們現在十月底有一個類似徵求意見然後我們希望未來兩個月年底之前希望有一個"},{"start":155.211,"end":183.565,"text":"到底多少的數字需要環比的數字出來我是希望年底前或是到一月的時候可以正式來公告不過因為委員那個像嘉義的案例因為我們有觀察過有些的滯洪池沒事有些滯洪池有事那其實跟他的這個強度是有關係的所以未來呢因為經濟部他們也有承諾說在一些規範上面施工的部分都要有一些規範他們要有已經有去檢查過了所以我相信這個兩個方式來進行應該有辦法避免像這樣的問題"},{"start":184.685,"end":209.807,"text":"自己的我看是 因為剛好風靠啦風太大 風靠這樣漏進來所以一片這樣 所以都騷擾起來你又沒辦法做什麼風洞實驗室你又沒辦法 你跟人家看風水而已你又不是殯董人啊像我也要看 看烏鷹 看魂物在哪裡我們現在改革後 都要看咧塞巴河在哪裡啊 海底來的魂在哪裡 到那邊喝大水的"},{"start":211.528,"end":236.806,"text":"自己要練了一生武功啊不然的話 你在養魚 魚就死了所以這個縫隙啦 這個做這個環評的補分是不是要加強說 醫療你要關心那麽到好你要要看天象這樣喔 後庭 是這就我討論這個現在其實如果環評的程序連這個就要把它考慮在裡面啦齁啊現在就是委員關心的就是多大面積啊這個我們會會來研議啦對啦 你現在"},{"start":241.365,"end":266.616,"text":"因為如果我看起來風太大那你的自動池上面的那個實際脆弱啦真的是蠻脆弱的好那我現在第二個問題就是我們現在很多這些光電公司上上個禮拜在內埔說在公墓上面要蓋太陽能板啊在說明會的時候那些船長要去修葡邊渡"},{"start":269.574,"end":287.554,"text":"加這個我還沒到現場就變了 怎麼又沒了我還在想什麼那現在一個問題就是我們這些能源業者在辦說明會他又去邀請一些社區環保團體啦或者是社區活動的啦"},{"start":291.298,"end":313.851,"text":"協會藉由這裡的肥料 帶人來聽聽這是好事啦但是就像剛才說的 船長要去修法如果你說你要協會 現在這個環保業者現在這裡的風 能源業者去幫你贊助贊助 就讓他們去辦活動 辦路由現在後來還有意見來說 說他是環保蟑螂"},{"start":319.315,"end":336.872,"text":"就用情緒勒索 我來贊助的也有人去用移送法辦我要請問法務部你們這個界定的標準是什麼那這些環保業者那這些能源業者 我在想是套養殺我們法務部立場是怎樣"},{"start":344.033,"end":357.15,"text":"呃這個有關於環境評估的話這個應該我們尊重這個環境部他們的專業評呃他們的專業判斷啊那至於說現場的秩序的話我想這個是個案我們就"},{"start":358.133,"end":374.249,"text":"不是突然喔 大家都疲累了 紡遼鄉那邊有一個貧囊工業區因為東海村 最底層 剩下這幾十九年去把這些青雙 去把他們抵銀金 以前叫做抵銀金 抵抵抵青雙如果不送 就要替他補 不說你在抄詐勒索什麼"},{"start":384.005,"end":409.662,"text":"那這些環保業者如出一策還有 我們的民意代表你要好好回答喔這大家都在看民意代表說萬一選舉的時候要贊助他們都是正常的喔 公開說 都抱感染力的現在把他們站起來贊助我們在外國也有人這樣對著的所以很困擾 要像中情形"},{"start":410.987,"end":425.043,"text":"反倒回來 說它是環保障礙 這樣就環保黑道華府的觀念 想法是怎麼樣 明確的跟我們講一下沒有辦法明確 至少要給我們開示一下 因為大家都很睏了"},{"start":426.916,"end":452.896,"text":"謝謝委員垂詢那就剛才我想那個部長也一直提到我們有一個跨部會平台那這個平台是在行政院政務委員林明熙政務委員他這邊來做一個協調那就剛才委員垂詢到的有關於政治獻金的部分的話我想如果依照政治獻金法相關的規定的話"},{"start":455.382,"end":463.521,"text":"應該就是我們法務部這邊也尊重尊重沒有啦 這位民運代表說話總有百思啦"},{"start":465.922,"end":483.415,"text":"地理就是說這個社團 這個廟宇 它會怕啦因為正經也有人往上 上場以後又去犯罪犯罪以後 一心二心沒辦法回來但是它會怕很受傷啦所以不得不說 像這種能源業者 他這樣做 他是"},{"start":487.113,"end":515.948,"text":"郭家拍電影以前兩個都兩張雙咖啡啦對阿 對阿 把你 把你 把你鎮著鎮著這樣如果你要怎樣就說你這個在拉手阿所以這是很困擾的事情啦所以這個部長你你如果我有做環評就沒有這些事了啦你每一件都給他做環評就沒有這些事了啦一公頃兩公頃他還好每天這樣蠶食精吞這樣你敢不敢看你啦所以你的 好啦"},{"start":517.898,"end":536.466,"text":"其實報告委員 環評沒有辦法完全禁止啦這是社會的問題這種環保的蟑螂或是這種說敗類其實我們現在濫肯濫法的多的是所以我們現在很積極的沒有顏色如果有犯罪我們有證據就會抓然後另外一個是說我們跟法務部有一個平台"},{"start":537.286,"end":552.115,"text":"跟那個是林明熙政委在處理的所以我們現在針對這個是很清楚的界線啦所以委員我們可以如果委員有具體的案例歡迎給我們我們會絕對請我們檢警還調的平台來法辦明天總執行再好好的請教你跟院長好謝謝謝謝蘇清泉委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":565,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（10時34分）謝謝，謝謝主席。我請彭部長和法務部副司長林黛利。"],["主席：請彭部長和副司長。"],["彭部長啓明：蘇委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，最近辛苦了。"],["彭部長啓明：多謝、謝謝。"],["蘇委員清泉：被人砲轟得歪七扭八，最近是你最痛苦的時候，不過我還是要跟環境部加油，環境部表現非常好，承諾的事情都有做到，只是時間晚一點。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝、謝謝。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，我現在問你兩個嚴肅的問題，第一個，是不是以後的光電板都要做環評？因為你講的一下子有、一下子沒有、一下子是幾公頃，你現在在這邊講、清楚的表達，所有的光電板是不是都要做環評？"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。其實1月的時候也謝謝委員給我們很多的建議，所以我們1月的時候有發布，的確有加嚴，然後在敏感區域或是山坡地都有一個規範，所以委員關心屏東那個案場，我相信未來不可能會發生，而且屏東三寶我們也把它退回去了，所以我們的態度是堅定的，但是如果是水面型的話，目前全世界還沒有這個機制，所以我們現在的確是在研議當中，快的話，在細則部分，如果年底或是明年初研議得出來的話，我們就會希望能夠針對水面型的光電有一個環評機制。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，第二個問題就是剛剛你講的水庫、水池、滯洪池等等上面要擺光電板，這次嘉義就發生滯洪池六十幾公頃的狀況，我們都去看了，看了兩次，很多水池、滯洪池都要放光電板，我們屏東農科園區有三個滯洪池，現在其中一個也要開始了，相關的工具、材料都放進去了，滯洪池的部分問題那麼多，要不要做環評？什麼時候可以給我們一個期程來確定要不要環評？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，滯洪池是屬於水面型的光電，10月底我們有一個類似徵求意見的作法，希望未來兩個月、年底之前有一個到底多少的數字、需要環評的數字出來，我是希望年底前或是1月的時候可以正式公告。不過，委員，像嘉義的案例，因為我們有觀察過，有些滯洪池沒事，有些滯洪池有事，其實跟它的強度是有關係的，因為經濟部也有承諾，在施工的部分要有一些規範，他們已經有去檢查過了，所以我相信以這兩個方式來進行，應該有辦法避免像這樣的問題。"],["蘇委員清泉：嘉義的案例，我看是因為在風口，颱風來的時候從風口撞進來，所以才整片被掀翻，你沒辦法做什麼風洞實驗，什麼都沒辦法，你只會看風勢而已，而且你也不是屏東人，像我會看烏雲從哪裡來，我們現在很厲害，都會看，像西北雨快要來了、海上飄來的雲、快要下到淹大水等等，自己要練就一身武功，不然如果是養魚的人，他的魚塭就穩死了！所以關於風勢、環評的部分，是不是要加強？以後要會「觀星望斗」、看天象，部長，這你有辦法嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：現在如果有環評程序，就要連這個都考慮進去，現在委員關心的就是多大面積，這個我們會來研議。"],["蘇委員清泉：對啦，因為在我看來，颱風如果很大，滯洪池上面的東西是很脆弱的，真的是滿脆弱的。","我現在問第二個問題，現在有很多光電公司，上上禮拜還有提到要在內埔公墓上蓋太陽能板的，開說明會的時候，那些村長都快要打起來、翻桌，幸好我還沒到現場就翻完了，不然就會說我在瞎起鬨。現在有一個問題，這些能源業者在辦說明會，他們會去邀請一些社區環保團體，或者是社區活動的一些協會、組織，請這些會長帶人來聽等等，這是好事情啦！"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["蘇委員清泉：但是也有剛才說的村長快要打起來的情形。像這些協會，現在這些環保業者、能源業者會贊助他們辦活動、辦旅遊，但下次開會如果他有意見，就說他是環保蟑螂，然後情緒勒索，因為有贊助他們，也有人因此被移送法辦。我要請問法務部，你們界定的標準是什麼？我在想這些環保業者、能源業者是「養套殺」，請問法務部的立場為何？"],["林副司長黛利：有關於環境評估，我們尊重環境部的專業判斷，至於現場的秩序，我想這個是個案，我們就……"],["蘇委員清泉：不是個案喔！大家都「虛累累」。我們枋寮鄉有一個屏南工業區，那裡的東海村上帝宮舉辦幾十週年的生日慶典、「迎熱鬧」，然後跟這些廠商「疊獻金」，我們小時候稱之為「疊獻金」，廠商如果不爽就去告你敲詐、勒索什麼的，這些環保業者可說是如出一轍，還有就是我們民意代表，你要好好回答哦！這個大家都在看，如果他們在選舉的時候贊助民意代表，這都是正常的哦！是公開的、都有報監察院，就是跟他們拿了一些贊助，我們立法委員也有人這樣選上了，但是很困擾，像這種情形，業者會反過來說他是環保蟑螂、環保黑道，請問法務部的觀念、想法是怎麼樣？請明確的跟我們講一下，如果沒有辦法明確，至少要給我們開示一下，因為大家都很困擾。"],["林副司長黛利：謝謝委員垂詢。剛才部長也一直提到我們有一個跨部會的平台，這個平台是由行政院林明昕政務委員來協調，就剛才委員垂詢到有關於政治獻金的部分，我想如果依照政治獻金法相關的規定，我們法務部這邊也尊重。"],["蘇委員清泉：尊重？沒有啦！這些民意代表如果傻傻的，可能會被綁死；第二，這些社團、這些廟宇他們會害怕，因為曾經有人被移送，移送完之後又去法院，然後一審、二審之後無罪回來，但是已經很受傷了，所以部長，像能源業者這樣做，說難聽一點，就是兩邊都押注。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["蘇委員清泉：就是贊助你，然後你如果怎麼樣的話，他就說你在勒索，這是令人很困擾的事情，所以部長，你如果有做環評就沒有這些事了啦。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，有時候也會有……"],["蘇委員清泉：你每一件都做環評就沒有這些事了啦！不要說1公頃、2公頃還好，每天這樣蠶食鯨吞，能看嗎？所以你……"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，環評沒有辦法完全禁止這部分，這是社會的問題，這種環保蟑螂或是這種敗類，其實現在濫墾、濫伐多的是，所以我們現在很積極在做，沒有顏色，如果有犯罪、有證據我們就會抓。另外，我們跟法務部有一個平台，是林明昕政委在處理的，所以我們現在針對這個是很清楚的界限，如果委員有具體的案例，歡迎提供給我們，我們絕對會請我們檢警環調的平台來法辦。"],["蘇委員清泉：明天總質詢再好好的請教你跟院長。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蘇清泉委員發言。先作以下宣告：待會黃秀芳委員質詢完畢後，休息10分鐘。","現在請邱鎮軍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-5","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","陳菁徽","林月琴","劉建國","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","王育敏","張啓楷","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","王正旭","林淑芬","涂權吉","楊曜","陳瑩","盧縣一","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":129,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部、經濟部、農業部、內政部就「太陽能光電板案場環評機制與保護區廢棄物管理\n之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六\n條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二\n十八條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條\n文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草\n案」案、( 五) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、\n(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員\n牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員羅明才等20人\n擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪\n音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案【專題報告及法律案採綜合詢答；法律案僅\n詢答】","agenda_id":"1148601_00003"}}}