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383.104, \"score\": 0.034}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:22,723\n主席張署長有請加署長委員長台灣是一個言論自由的社會但是尤其是在政治的場域言論自由往往其實也不只是台灣全世界各式各樣的言論逐漸走向極端化而且越來越出格像我們\n\n2\n00:00:24,039 --> 00:00:42,246\n這個黃捷委員這一陣子也受了很多的委屈嘛對不對但是我要問的是這樣啊就我們到底那個那條界線應該劃在哪裡啊我希望來做一下討論因為這個我想這個尤其這個我想這個應該蠻對警政署來講其實也是一個蠻困擾的議題這你們一年大概收多少這樣子的報案政治人物啊\n\n3\n00:00:42,762 --> 00:01:10,469\n就彼此之間政治口水噴來噴去不管是網友罵政治人物政治人物互相罵來罵去還是怎麼樣你們大概一年有多少個這樣子的案件要處理我想這個倒是還少再少數報案的應該很少報案的應該很少很少報案竟然很少就不會說因為我案量實在太多然後到時候我沒有辦法處理那個報案不多報案很少那我就很好奇因為事實上大家都會知道而且大家心裡都有所不甘都覺得自己被雙重標準來對待比如說\n\n4\n00:01:12,128 --> 00:01:34,019\n這我們之前在國會激烈衝突的時候對不對這本席的照片也被放到民主靈堂裡面去啊對不對這個民眾黨黃國昌總召對不對我們的立法院韓國瑜院長我們本黨的各個立委我們都被的遺照啊都被佈置靈堂被舉辦告別式那時候大家也報案啊可是好像這案子就不了了之對不對那\n\n5\n00:01:35,868 --> 00:01:44,306\n那可是民眾啊看不下去北檢辦案很多爭議所以就把北檢檢察官他也比照辦理對不對他也幫他辦民主告別式完蛋馬上辦\n\n6\n00:01:45,820 --> 00:02:08,561\n辦完之後馬上抓抓完之後還收押請問署長啊這麼多奇怪其實從政治攻防的角度來看這都政治口水嘛對不對他罵我們我們罵北檢民眾激情的民眾等等都是一個這樣的樣態啊但為什麼有些人就辦了有些人不了了之呢署長你們這辦的標準是什麼你們現在辦的概況是什麼說明一下我想就是這樣我要稍微說明一下台灣是一個人權\n\n7\n00:02:09,602 --> 00:02:26,533\n法治跟言論自由社會嘛對不對但是要法治啦那言論自由就是一個核心的就是在保障這個意見的自由的流通啦這個是有充分的這個自我實踐的這種狀況\n\n8\n00:02:27,634 --> 00:02:45,585\n但是這個言論自由不是作為這個散播仇恨跟鼓吹犯罪啦這個基準那我想就是說一定要有這一些的事證跟證據啦事證跟證據就是說可能他的我們那個靈堂的照片都網路上傳瘋了算證據啊但後來不了了之嘛\n\n9\n00:02:45,785 --> 00:03:05,226\n那當然這些案件我們警察大概初步的偵查大概就是會跟地檢署來做一個報指揮來偵辦那來做一個所以還是由地檢署來指揮偵辦對應該都是由地檢署來做指揮偵辦那當然這個偵辦的結果是以地檢署的偵辦的結果做一個結果\n\n10\n00:03:05,746 --> 00:03:18,535\n那未來就是說我們特別要強調就是有一些是有界限的就是說對於散播醜聞或鼓吹犯罪或甚至散貨或者是恐嚇危害這些大概就是有一個過程要件\n\n11\n00:03:23,718 --> 00:03:39,837\n有這個過程要見有達到要見我們當然就是會給地檢署來處理再暴力一點如果今天民眾在網路上或是馬路旁邊如果用我們今天賴清德總統的照片他也辦民主告別式然後說他心中英明神武的賴清德總統已經死了那你們是辦了還是不辦\n\n12\n00:03:40,973 --> 00:04:00,371\n我們當然是看他蒐集證據完之後的狀況就是一樣跟我們那時候國會的狀況一樣還是如果這個蒐集這個情形這個到底他的動機是要做什麼這個動機如果是有危害性有散戶性有恐嚇性那當然還是會依法來做一個來做一個偵查跟處理\n\n13\n00:04:01,172 --> 00:04:13,696\n我想就是一個基礎點要先去瞭解他的這個對啦本期要提醒你只有這個事情不可以雙標啦因為你越雙標的時候其實整個社會的言論市場的走位會更極端我想我們的觀念跟做法是會一致啦沒關係你會整一下啦就是我剛剛講這種政治口水性質的仇恨言論你剛剛講說案量其實不多那你就做個整理嘛然後各項偵辦的進度你剛剛有講到一個點可能是因為地檢署指揮偵辦\n\n14\n00:04:29,142 --> 00:04:44,958\n這強弱有別等等但沒關係我們要把這事情還原啦好不好這麻煩警政署長幫我們準備一下資料那我們要提醒不要上標第二個是這個你們對於收集這些政治口水的管道是什麼這其實本席也算蠻好奇的比如說我們這個網紅館長對不對前一陣子也是講了\n\n15\n00:04:48,501 --> 00:05:16,001\n當然極端言論都是不對的講了對我們賴清德總統不太尊敬的這樣子的話那他當然馬上就被調查了那我想請問這調查的過程裡面當然你們也是配合檢警指揮偵辦嘛對不對那在這調查裡面你們是模式是什麼呢是你們會主動看這些本來平常就很衝的這些言論然後進行管控跟了解還是說你們是比如說我接到人家檢舉還是我看到新聞它可能變成輿論事件然後我來去做偵辦請問你們在這種\n\n16\n00:05:17,762 --> 00:05:45,050\n在這種你們在避免仇恨言論為前提下的這些監視跟管控的這些措施你們的執行標準是什麼可不可以請署長檢查說明我們不會去做監控跟管制不會主動看嘛我們不會去做這個事情那現在就是說警察是執行這個法律是一個就是執法的一個單位那以館長這個案件來這個案例來講是我們受理民眾的檢舉受理檢舉嘛受理檢舉來做偵辦的\n\n17\n00:05:46,930 --> 00:06:14,188\n這個案件的過程是受理檢舉來做偵辦的所以這就回到其實回到本席剛剛那個問題嘛也就是說好你現在至少在辦案的過程中你要很明確的宣示嘛基本上就不告不理嘛因為每天吵架你也不可能主動處理主動處理也添麻煩對不對所以這不告不理的一個情況之下那就是處理之後一樣回到標準的問題啦本席在這邊簡單做一下結論因為時間有限啦本席希望至少要做到透明要做到負責要做到平等啦\n\n18\n00:06:14,568 --> 00:06:23,104\n尤其是標準要其一啦本期好好等你這一份跟政治口水相關案件的一個調查報告我們再來做後續的討論可以嗎可以謝謝市長辛苦了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t22723\t主席張署長有請加署長委員長台灣是一個言論自由的社會但是尤其是在政治的場域言論自由往往其實也不只是台灣全世界各式各樣的言論逐漸走向極端化而且越來越出格像我們\n24039\t42246\t這個黃捷委員這一陣子也受了很多的委屈嘛對不對但是我要問的是這樣啊就我們到底那個那條界線應該劃在哪裡啊我希望來做一下討論因為這個我想這個尤其這個我想這個應該蠻對警政署來講其實也是一個蠻困擾的議題這你們一年大概收多少這樣子的報案政治人物啊\n42762\t70469\t就彼此之間政治口水噴來噴去不管是網友罵政治人物政治人物互相罵來罵去還是怎麼樣你們大概一年有多少個這樣子的案件要處理我想這個倒是還少再少數報案的應該很少報案的應該很少很少報案竟然很少就不會說因為我案量實在太多然後到時候我沒有辦法處理那個報案不多報案很少那我就很好奇因為事實上大家都會知道而且大家心裡都有所不甘都覺得自己被雙重標準來對待比如說\n72128\t94019\t這我們之前在國會激烈衝突的時候對不對這本席的照片也被放到民主靈堂裡面去啊對不對這個民眾黨黃國昌總召對不對我們的立法院韓國瑜院長我們本黨的各個立委我們都被的遺照啊都被佈置靈堂被舉辦告別式那時候大家也報案啊可是好像這案子就不了了之對不對那\n95868\t104306\t那可是民眾啊看不下去北檢辦案很多爭議所以就把北檢檢察官他也比照辦理對不對他也幫他辦民主告別式完蛋馬上辦\n105820\t128561\t辦完之後馬上抓 抓完之後還收押請問署長啊 這麼多奇怪其實從政治攻防的角度來看 這都政治口水嘛對不對 他罵我們 我們罵北檢 民眾激情的民眾等等 都是一個這樣的樣態啊但為什麼有些人就辦了 有些人不了了之呢署長你們這辦的標準是什麼 你們現在辦的概況是什麼說明一下我想就是這樣 我要稍微說明一下 台灣是一個人權\n129602\t146533\t法治跟言論自由社會嘛對不對但是要法治啦那言論自由就是一個核心的就是在保障這個意見的自由的流通啦這個是有充分的這個自我實踐的這種狀況\n147634\t165585\t但是這個言論自由不是作為這個散播仇恨跟鼓吹犯罪啦這個基準那我想就是說一定要有這一些的事證跟證據啦事證跟證據就是說可能他的我們那個靈堂的照片都網路上傳瘋了算證據啊但後來不了了之嘛\n165785\t185226\t那當然這些案件我們警察大概初步的偵查大概就是會跟地檢署來做一個報指揮來偵辦那來做一個所以還是由地檢署來指揮偵辦對應該都是由地檢署來做指揮偵辦那當然這個偵辦的結果是以地檢署的偵辦的結果做一個結果\n185746\t198535\t那未來就是說我們特別要強調就是有一些是有界限的就是說對於散播醜聞或鼓吹犯罪或甚至散貨或者是恐嚇危害這些大概就是有一個過程要件\n203718\t219837\t有這個過程要見有達到要見我們當然就是會給地檢署來處理再暴力一點如果今天民眾在網路上或是馬路旁邊如果用我們今天賴清德總統的照片他也辦民主告別式然後說他心中英明神武的賴清德總統已經死了那你們是辦了還是不辦\n220973\t240371\t我們當然是看他蒐集證據完之後的狀況就是一樣 跟我們那時候國會的狀況一樣還是如果這個蒐集這個情形這個到底他的動機是要做什麼這個動機如果是有危害性有散戶性有恐嚇性那當然還是會依法來做一個來做一個偵查跟處理\n241172\t253696\t我想就是一個基礎點要先去瞭解他的這個對啦 本期要提醒你只有這個事情不可以雙標啦因為你越雙標的時候其實整個社會的言論市場的走位會更極端我想我們的觀念跟做法是會一致啦沒關係 你會整一下啦就是我剛剛講這種政治口水性質的仇恨言論你剛剛講說案量其實不多那你就做個整理嘛然後各項偵辦的進度你剛剛有講到一個點可能是因為地檢署指揮偵辦\n269142\t284958\t這強弱有別等等但沒關係我們要把這事情還原啦好不好這麻煩警政署長幫我們準備一下資料那我們要提醒不要上標第二個是這個你們對於收集這些政治口水的管道是什麼這其實本席也算蠻好奇的比如說我們這個網紅館長對不對前一陣子也是講了\n288501\t316001\t當然極端言論都是不對的講了對我們賴清德總統不太尊敬的這樣子的話那他當然馬上就被調查了那我想請問這調查的過程裡面當然你們也是配合檢警指揮偵辦嘛 對不對那在這調查裡面你們是模式是什麼呢是你們會主動看這些本來平常就很衝的這些言論然後進行管控跟了解還是說你們是比如說我接到人家檢舉還是我看到新聞它可能變成輿論事件然後我來去做偵辦請問你們在這種\n317762\t345050\t在這種你們在避免仇恨言論為前提下的這些監視跟管控的這些措施你們的執行標準是什麼可不可以請署長檢查說明我們不會去做監控跟管制不會主動看嘛我們不會去做這個事情那現在就是說警察是執行這個法律是一個就是執法的一個單位那以館長這個案件來這個案例來講是我們受理民眾的檢舉受理檢舉嘛受理檢舉來做偵辦的\n346930\t374188\t這個案件的過程是受理檢舉來做偵辦的所以這就回到其實回到本席剛剛那個問題嘛也就是說好你現在至少在辦案的過程中你要很明確的宣示嘛基本上就不告不理嘛因為每天吵架你也不可能主動處理主動處理也添麻煩對不對所以這不告不理的一個情況之下那就是處理之後一樣回到標準的問題啦本席在這邊簡單做一下結論因為時間有限啦本席希望至少要做到透明要做到負責要做到平等啦\n374568\t383104\t尤其是標準要其一啦本期好好等你這一份跟政治口水相關案件的一個調查報告我們再來做後續的討論 可以嗎可以 謝謝 市長辛苦了\n","txt":"主席張署長有請加署長委員長台灣是一個言論自由的社會但是尤其是在政治的場域言論自由往往其實也不只是台灣全世界各式各樣的言論逐漸走向極端化而且越來越出格像我們\n這個黃捷委員這一陣子也受了很多的委屈嘛對不對但是我要問的是這樣啊就我們到底那個那條界線應該劃在哪裡啊我希望來做一下討論因為這個我想這個尤其這個我想這個應該蠻對警政署來講其實也是一個蠻困擾的議題這你們一年大概收多少這樣子的報案政治人物啊\n就彼此之間政治口水噴來噴去不管是網友罵政治人物政治人物互相罵來罵去還是怎麼樣你們大概一年有多少個這樣子的案件要處理我想這個倒是還少再少數報案的應該很少報案的應該很少很少報案竟然很少就不會說因為我案量實在太多然後到時候我沒有辦法處理那個報案不多報案很少那我就很好奇因為事實上大家都會知道而且大家心裡都有所不甘都覺得自己被雙重標準來對待比如說\n這我們之前在國會激烈衝突的時候對不對這本席的照片也被放到民主靈堂裡面去啊對不對這個民眾黨黃國昌總召對不對我們的立法院韓國瑜院長我們本黨的各個立委我們都被的遺照啊都被佈置靈堂被舉辦告別式那時候大家也報案啊可是好像這案子就不了了之對不對那\n那可是民眾啊看不下去北檢辦案很多爭議所以就把北檢檢察官他也比照辦理對不對他也幫他辦民主告別式完蛋馬上辦\n辦完之後馬上抓 抓完之後還收押請問署長啊 這麼多奇怪其實從政治攻防的角度來看 這都政治口水嘛對不對 他罵我們 我們罵北檢 民眾激情的民眾等等 都是一個這樣的樣態啊但為什麼有些人就辦了 有些人不了了之呢署長你們這辦的標準是什麼 你們現在辦的概況是什麼說明一下我想就是這樣 我要稍微說明一下 台灣是一個人權\n法治跟言論自由社會嘛對不對但是要法治啦那言論自由就是一個核心的就是在保障這個意見的自由的流通啦這個是有充分的這個自我實踐的這種狀況\n但是這個言論自由不是作為這個散播仇恨跟鼓吹犯罪啦這個基準那我想就是說一定要有這一些的事證跟證據啦事證跟證據就是說可能他的我們那個靈堂的照片都網路上傳瘋了算證據啊但後來不了了之嘛\n那當然這些案件我們警察大概初步的偵查大概就是會跟地檢署來做一個報指揮來偵辦那來做一個所以還是由地檢署來指揮偵辦對應該都是由地檢署來做指揮偵辦那當然這個偵辦的結果是以地檢署的偵辦的結果做一個結果\n那未來就是說我們特別要強調就是有一些是有界限的就是說對於散播醜聞或鼓吹犯罪或甚至散貨或者是恐嚇危害這些大概就是有一個過程要件\n有這個過程要見有達到要見我們當然就是會給地檢署來處理再暴力一點如果今天民眾在網路上或是馬路旁邊如果用我們今天賴清德總統的照片他也辦民主告別式然後說他心中英明神武的賴清德總統已經死了那你們是辦了還是不辦\n我們當然是看他蒐集證據完之後的狀況就是一樣 跟我們那時候國會的狀況一樣還是如果這個蒐集這個情形這個到底他的動機是要做什麼這個動機如果是有危害性有散戶性有恐嚇性那當然還是會依法來做一個來做一個偵查跟處理\n我想就是一個基礎點要先去瞭解他的這個對啦 本期要提醒你只有這個事情不可以雙標啦因為你越雙標的時候其實整個社會的言論市場的走位會更極端我想我們的觀念跟做法是會一致啦沒關係 你會整一下啦就是我剛剛講這種政治口水性質的仇恨言論你剛剛講說案量其實不多那你就做個整理嘛然後各項偵辦的進度你剛剛有講到一個點可能是因為地檢署指揮偵辦\n這強弱有別等等但沒關係我們要把這事情還原啦好不好這麻煩警政署長幫我們準備一下資料那我們要提醒不要上標第二個是這個你們對於收集這些政治口水的管道是什麼這其實本席也算蠻好奇的比如說我們這個網紅館長對不對前一陣子也是講了\n當然極端言論都是不對的講了對我們賴清德總統不太尊敬的這樣子的話那他當然馬上就被調查了那我想請問這調查的過程裡面當然你們也是配合檢警指揮偵辦嘛 對不對那在這調查裡面你們是模式是什麼呢是你們會主動看這些本來平常就很衝的這些言論然後進行管控跟了解還是說你們是比如說我接到人家檢舉還是我看到新聞它可能變成輿論事件然後我來去做偵辦請問你們在這種\n在這種你們在避免仇恨言論為前提下的這些監視跟管控的這些措施你們的執行標準是什麼可不可以請署長檢查說明我們不會去做監控跟管制不會主動看嘛我們不會去做這個事情那現在就是說警察是執行這個法律是一個就是執法的一個單位那以館長這個案件來這個案例來講是我們受理民眾的檢舉受理檢舉嘛受理檢舉來做偵辦的\n這個案件的過程是受理檢舉來做偵辦的所以這就回到其實回到本席剛剛那個問題嘛也就是說好你現在至少在辦案的過程中你要很明確的宣示嘛基本上就不告不理嘛因為每天吵架你也不可能主動處理主動處理也添麻煩對不對所以這不告不理的一個情況之下那就是處理之後一樣回到標準的問題啦本席在這邊簡單做一下結論因為時間有限啦本席希望至少要做到透明要做到負責要做到平等啦\n尤其是標準要其一啦本期好好等你這一份跟政治口水相關案件的一個調查報告我們再來做後續的討論 可以嗎可以 謝謝 市長辛苦了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:22.723\n主席張署長有請加署長委員長台灣是一個言論自由的社會但是尤其是在政治的場域言論自由往往其實也不只是台灣全世界各式各樣的言論逐漸走向極端化而且越來越出格像我們\n\n00:24.039 --> 00:42.246\n這個黃捷委員這一陣子也受了很多的委屈嘛對不對但是我要問的是這樣啊就我們到底那個那條界線應該劃在哪裡啊我希望來做一下討論因為這個我想這個尤其這個我想這個應該蠻對警政署來講其實也是一個蠻困擾的議題這你們一年大概收多少這樣子的報案政治人物啊\n\n00:42.762 --> 01:10.469\n就彼此之間政治口水噴來噴去不管是網友罵政治人物政治人物互相罵來罵去還是怎麼樣你們大概一年有多少個這樣子的案件要處理我想這個倒是還少再少數報案的應該很少報案的應該很少很少報案竟然很少就不會說因為我案量實在太多然後到時候我沒有辦法處理那個報案不多報案很少那我就很好奇因為事實上大家都會知道而且大家心裡都有所不甘都覺得自己被雙重標準來對待比如說\n\n01:12.128 --> 01:34.019\n這我們之前在國會激烈衝突的時候對不對這本席的照片也被放到民主靈堂裡面去啊對不對這個民眾黨黃國昌總召對不對我們的立法院韓國瑜院長我們本黨的各個立委我們都被的遺照啊都被佈置靈堂被舉辦告別式那時候大家也報案啊可是好像這案子就不了了之對不對那\n\n01:35.868 --> 01:44.306\n那可是民眾啊看不下去北檢辦案很多爭議所以就把北檢檢察官他也比照辦理對不對他也幫他辦民主告別式完蛋馬上辦\n\n01:45.820 --> 02:08.561\n辦完之後馬上抓抓完之後還收押請問署長啊這麼多奇怪其實從政治攻防的角度來看這都政治口水嘛對不對他罵我們我們罵北檢民眾激情的民眾等等都是一個這樣的樣態啊但為什麼有些人就辦了有些人不了了之呢署長你們這辦的標準是什麼你們現在辦的概況是什麼說明一下我想就是這樣我要稍微說明一下台灣是一個人權\n\n02:09.602 --> 02:26.533\n法治跟言論自由社會嘛對不對但是要法治啦那言論自由就是一個核心的就是在保障這個意見的自由的流通啦這個是有充分的這個自我實踐的這種狀況\n\n02:27.634 --> 02:45.585\n但是這個言論自由不是作為這個散播仇恨跟鼓吹犯罪啦這個基準那我想就是說一定要有這一些的事證跟證據啦事證跟證據就是說可能他的我們那個靈堂的照片都網路上傳瘋了算證據啊但後來不了了之嘛\n\n02:45.785 --> 03:05.226\n那當然這些案件我們警察大概初步的偵查大概就是會跟地檢署來做一個報指揮來偵辦那來做一個所以還是由地檢署來指揮偵辦對應該都是由地檢署來做指揮偵辦那當然這個偵辦的結果是以地檢署的偵辦的結果做一個結果\n\n03:05.746 --> 03:18.535\n那未來就是說我們特別要強調就是有一些是有界限的就是說對於散播醜聞或鼓吹犯罪或甚至散貨或者是恐嚇危害這些大概就是有一個過程要件\n\n03:23.718 --> 03:39.837\n有這個過程要見有達到要見我們當然就是會給地檢署來處理再暴力一點如果今天民眾在網路上或是馬路旁邊如果用我們今天賴清德總統的照片他也辦民主告別式然後說他心中英明神武的賴清德總統已經死了那你們是辦了還是不辦\n\n03:40.973 --> 04:00.371\n我們當然是看他蒐集證據完之後的狀況就是一樣跟我們那時候國會的狀況一樣還是如果這個蒐集這個情形這個到底他的動機是要做什麼這個動機如果是有危害性有散戶性有恐嚇性那當然還是會依法來做一個來做一個偵查跟處理\n\n04:01.172 --> 04:13.696\n我想就是一個基礎點要先去瞭解他的這個對啦本期要提醒你只有這個事情不可以雙標啦因為你越雙標的時候其實整個社會的言論市場的走位會更極端我想我們的觀念跟做法是會一致啦沒關係你會整一下啦就是我剛剛講這種政治口水性質的仇恨言論你剛剛講說案量其實不多那你就做個整理嘛然後各項偵辦的進度你剛剛有講到一個點可能是因為地檢署指揮偵辦\n\n04:29.142 --> 04:44.958\n這強弱有別等等但沒關係我們要把這事情還原啦好不好這麻煩警政署長幫我們準備一下資料那我們要提醒不要上標第二個是這個你們對於收集這些政治口水的管道是什麼這其實本席也算蠻好奇的比如說我們這個網紅館長對不對前一陣子也是講了\n\n04:48.501 --> 05:16.001\n當然極端言論都是不對的講了對我們賴清德總統不太尊敬的這樣子的話那他當然馬上就被調查了那我想請問這調查的過程裡面當然你們也是配合檢警指揮偵辦嘛對不對那在這調查裡面你們是模式是什麼呢是你們會主動看這些本來平常就很衝的這些言論然後進行管控跟了解還是說你們是比如說我接到人家檢舉還是我看到新聞它可能變成輿論事件然後我來去做偵辦請問你們在這種\n\n05:17.762 --> 05:45.050\n在這種你們在避免仇恨言論為前提下的這些監視跟管控的這些措施你們的執行標準是什麼可不可以請署長檢查說明我們不會去做監控跟管制不會主動看嘛我們不會去做這個事情那現在就是說警察是執行這個法律是一個就是執法的一個單位那以館長這個案件來這個案例來講是我們受理民眾的檢舉受理檢舉嘛受理檢舉來做偵辦的\n\n05:46.930 --> 06:14.188\n這個案件的過程是受理檢舉來做偵辦的所以這就回到其實回到本席剛剛那個問題嘛也就是說好你現在至少在辦案的過程中你要很明確的宣示嘛基本上就不告不理嘛因為每天吵架你也不可能主動處理主動處理也添麻煩對不對所以這不告不理的一個情況之下那就是處理之後一樣回到標準的問題啦本席在這邊簡單做一下結論因為時間有限啦本席希望至少要做到透明要做到負責要做到平等啦\n\n06:14.568 --> 06:23.104\n尤其是標準要其一啦本期好好等你這一份跟政治口水相關案件的一個調查報告我們再來做後續的討論可以嗎可以謝謝市長辛苦了\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":22.723,"text":"主席張署長有請加署長委員長台灣是一個言論自由的社會但是尤其是在政治的場域言論自由往往其實也不只是台灣全世界各式各樣的言論逐漸走向極端化而且越來越出格像我們"},{"start":24.039,"end":42.246,"text":"這個黃捷委員這一陣子也受了很多的委屈嘛對不對但是我要問的是這樣啊就我們到底那個那條界線應該劃在哪裡啊我希望來做一下討論因為這個我想這個尤其這個我想這個應該蠻對警政署來講其實也是一個蠻困擾的議題這你們一年大概收多少這樣子的報案政治人物啊"},{"start":42.762,"end":70.469,"text":"就彼此之間政治口水噴來噴去不管是網友罵政治人物政治人物互相罵來罵去還是怎麼樣你們大概一年有多少個這樣子的案件要處理我想這個倒是還少再少數報案的應該很少報案的應該很少很少報案竟然很少就不會說因為我案量實在太多然後到時候我沒有辦法處理那個報案不多報案很少那我就很好奇因為事實上大家都會知道而且大家心裡都有所不甘都覺得自己被雙重標準來對待比如說"},{"start":72.128,"end":94.019,"text":"這我們之前在國會激烈衝突的時候對不對這本席的照片也被放到民主靈堂裡面去啊對不對這個民眾黨黃國昌總召對不對我們的立法院韓國瑜院長我們本黨的各個立委我們都被的遺照啊都被佈置靈堂被舉辦告別式那時候大家也報案啊可是好像這案子就不了了之對不對那"},{"start":95.868,"end":104.306,"text":"那可是民眾啊看不下去北檢辦案很多爭議所以就把北檢檢察官他也比照辦理對不對他也幫他辦民主告別式完蛋馬上辦"},{"start":105.82,"end":128.561,"text":"辦完之後馬上抓 抓完之後還收押請問署長啊 這麼多奇怪其實從政治攻防的角度來看 這都政治口水嘛對不對 他罵我們 我們罵北檢 民眾激情的民眾等等 都是一個這樣的樣態啊但為什麼有些人就辦了 有些人不了了之呢署長你們這辦的標準是什麼 你們現在辦的概況是什麼說明一下我想就是這樣 我要稍微說明一下 台灣是一個人權"},{"start":129.602,"end":146.533,"text":"法治跟言論自由社會嘛對不對但是要法治啦那言論自由就是一個核心的就是在保障這個意見的自由的流通啦這個是有充分的這個自我實踐的這種狀況"},{"start":147.634,"end":165.585,"text":"但是這個言論自由不是作為這個散播仇恨跟鼓吹犯罪啦這個基準那我想就是說一定要有這一些的事證跟證據啦事證跟證據就是說可能他的我們那個靈堂的照片都網路上傳瘋了算證據啊但後來不了了之嘛"},{"start":165.785,"end":185.226,"text":"那當然這些案件我們警察大概初步的偵查大概就是會跟地檢署來做一個報指揮來偵辦那來做一個所以還是由地檢署來指揮偵辦對應該都是由地檢署來做指揮偵辦那當然這個偵辦的結果是以地檢署的偵辦的結果做一個結果"},{"start":185.746,"end":198.535,"text":"那未來就是說我們特別要強調就是有一些是有界限的就是說對於散播醜聞或鼓吹犯罪或甚至散貨或者是恐嚇危害這些大概就是有一個過程要件"},{"start":203.718,"end":219.837,"text":"有這個過程要見有達到要見我們當然就是會給地檢署來處理再暴力一點如果今天民眾在網路上或是馬路旁邊如果用我們今天賴清德總統的照片他也辦民主告別式然後說他心中英明神武的賴清德總統已經死了那你們是辦了還是不辦"},{"start":220.973,"end":240.371,"text":"我們當然是看他蒐集證據完之後的狀況就是一樣 跟我們那時候國會的狀況一樣還是如果這個蒐集這個情形這個到底他的動機是要做什麼這個動機如果是有危害性有散戶性有恐嚇性那當然還是會依法來做一個來做一個偵查跟處理"},{"start":241.172,"end":253.696,"text":"我想就是一個基礎點要先去瞭解他的這個對啦 本期要提醒你只有這個事情不可以雙標啦因為你越雙標的時候其實整個社會的言論市場的走位會更極端我想我們的觀念跟做法是會一致啦沒關係 你會整一下啦就是我剛剛講這種政治口水性質的仇恨言論你剛剛講說案量其實不多那你就做個整理嘛然後各項偵辦的進度你剛剛有講到一個點可能是因為地檢署指揮偵辦"},{"start":269.142,"end":284.958,"text":"這強弱有別等等但沒關係我們要把這事情還原啦好不好這麻煩警政署長幫我們準備一下資料那我們要提醒不要上標第二個是這個你們對於收集這些政治口水的管道是什麼這其實本席也算蠻好奇的比如說我們這個網紅館長對不對前一陣子也是講了"},{"start":288.501,"end":316.001,"text":"當然極端言論都是不對的講了對我們賴清德總統不太尊敬的這樣子的話那他當然馬上就被調查了那我想請問這調查的過程裡面當然你們也是配合檢警指揮偵辦嘛 對不對那在這調查裡面你們是模式是什麼呢是你們會主動看這些本來平常就很衝的這些言論然後進行管控跟了解還是說你們是比如說我接到人家檢舉還是我看到新聞它可能變成輿論事件然後我來去做偵辦請問你們在這種"},{"start":317.762,"end":345.05,"text":"在這種你們在避免仇恨言論為前提下的這些監視跟管控的這些措施你們的執行標準是什麼可不可以請署長檢查說明我們不會去做監控跟管制不會主動看嘛我們不會去做這個事情那現在就是說警察是執行這個法律是一個就是執法的一個單位那以館長這個案件來這個案例來講是我們受理民眾的檢舉受理檢舉嘛受理檢舉來做偵辦的"},{"start":346.93,"end":374.188,"text":"這個案件的過程是受理檢舉來做偵辦的所以這就回到其實回到本席剛剛那個問題嘛也就是說好你現在至少在辦案的過程中你要很明確的宣示嘛基本上就不告不理嘛因為每天吵架你也不可能主動處理主動處理也添麻煩對不對所以這不告不理的一個情況之下那就是處理之後一樣回到標準的問題啦本席在這邊簡單做一下結論因為時間有限啦本席希望至少要做到透明要做到負責要做到平等啦"},{"start":374.568,"end":383.104,"text":"尤其是標準要其一啦本期好好等你這一份跟政治口水相關案件的一個調查報告我們再來做後續的討論 可以嗎可以 謝謝 市長辛苦了"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":262,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（9時23分）謝謝主席，有請張署長。"],["主席（王委員美惠）：請署長。"],["張署長榮興：委員早。"],["牛委員煦庭：署長，臺灣是一個言論自由的社會，尤其是在政治的場域，言論自由往往……其實也不只是臺灣，現在全世界各式各樣的言論逐漸走向極端化，而且越來越出格。像黃捷委員這一陣子也受了很多的委屈，對不對？但是我要問的是，到底那條界限應該畫在哪裡，我希望來討論一下，因為我想這個對警政署來講，其實也是一個滿困擾的議題。你們一年大概收多少這樣的報案？就是政治人物彼此之間的政治口水噴來噴去，不管是網友罵政治人物、政治人物互相罵來罵去還是怎麼樣，你們一年大概有多少這樣的案件要處理？"],["張署長榮興：我想這個倒是還在少數，報案的應該很少。"],["牛委員煦庭：報案的應該很少，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：對，很少。"],["牛委員煦庭：既然報案的很少，到時候就不會說因為你們的案件實在太多，沒有辦法處理，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：不會，那個報案的不多，很少。"],["牛委員煦庭：那我就很好奇，事實上大家都知道，而且大家心裡都有所不甘啦，都覺得自己被雙重標準對待，比如說我們之前在國會激烈衝突的時候，本席的照片也被放到民主靈堂裡面去，對不對？民眾黨黃國昌總召、立法院韓國瑜院長、本黨的各個立委，我們的遺照都被布置在靈堂、被舉辦告別式，那時候大家也報案了，可是好像這個案子就不了了之了，對不對？可是民眾看不下去，因為北檢辦案很多爭議，所以也把北檢檢察官比照辦理，也幫他辦民主告別式，完蛋！馬上辦！辦完之後馬上抓，抓完之後還收押。請問署長，其實從政治攻防的角度來看，這都是政治口水，對不對？他罵我們，我們罵北檢、激情的民眾等等，都是這樣的樣態，為什麼有些人就辦了、有些人卻不了了之呢？署長，你們辦案的標準是什麼？你們現在辦案的概況是什麼，說明一下。"],["張署長榮興：我想就是這樣，我要稍微說明一下，臺灣是一個人權法治跟言論自由的國家。"],["牛委員煦庭：是言論自由的社會嘛，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：但是要法治啦，言論自由的核心就是在保障意見的自由流通，這個是充分保障了自我實踐，但是言論自由不是作為散播仇恨跟鼓吹犯罪的藉口，這個是基準。"],["牛委員煦庭：是啊！"],["張署長榮興：我想一定要有這一些的事證跟證據，就是可能它的……"],["牛委員煦庭：我們那個靈堂的照片都在網路上傳瘋了，算證據啊！但後來也不了了之。"],["張署長榮興：當然，這些案件我們警察初步偵查，大概就是會報請地檢署指揮偵辦，來做相關的……"],["牛委員煦庭：所以還是由地檢署來指揮偵辦，是不是這樣？"],["張署長榮興：對，應該都是由地檢署來做指揮偵辦，當然這個結果是以地檢署偵辦的結果為準。我們特別要強調的就是有一些是有界限的，就是對於散播仇恨或鼓吹犯罪，甚至是煽惑或者恐嚇、危害這些，有一個構成要件。"],["牛委員煦庭：好。"],["張署長榮興：如果有達成這個構成要件，我們當然就會給地檢署來做處理。"],["牛委員煦庭：署長，我就問再暴力一點，如果今天民眾在網路上或是馬路旁邊，也用賴清德總統的照片辦民主告別式，然後說他心中英明神武的賴清德總統已經死了，你們是辦還是不辦？"],["張署長榮興：我們當然是看蒐集證據完之後的狀況，適時地進行……"],["牛委員煦庭：跟我們那時候國會的狀況一樣，就擺出來啊！"],["張署長榮興：對，蒐集證據，看到底他的動機是要做什麼，這個動機如果是有危害性、有煽惑性、有恐嚇性，當然還是會依法來做偵查跟處理，我想這就是一個基礎點，要先去了解他符不符合構成要件。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，本席要提醒你的只有這個事情不可以雙標，因為你越雙標的時候，其實整個社會的言論事實上就會更極端，對不對？"],["張署長榮興：我想我們的觀念跟做法會是一致的。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒關係，你彙整一下，就是我剛剛有講的，這種政治口水性質的仇恨言論，你剛剛講說案量其實不多，那你就做個整理，然後還有各項案件偵辦的進度，你剛剛有講到一個點，可能是因為地檢署指揮偵辦強弱有別等等，但沒關係，我們要把這件事情還原，好不好？麻煩警政署長幫我們準備一下資料，我要提醒，不要雙標。"],["張署長榮興：好，沒問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：第二個，你們對於蒐集這些政治口水的管道是什麼？這其實本席也算滿好奇的，比如網紅館長前一陣子也是講了對賴清德總統不太尊敬的話，當然，極端言論都是不對的，他馬上就被調查了。我想請問這個調查過程，當然你們也是配合檢警指揮偵辦，對不對？但是在調查裡面你們的模式是什麼呢？是你們會主動看這些本來平常就很衝的言論，然後進行管控跟了解，還是接到人家檢舉？還是看到新聞，認為它可能變成輿論事件，然後去做偵辦？請問你們在避免仇恨言論為前提下的這些監視跟管控措施，你們的執行標準是什麼？可不可以請署長簡單說明？"],["張署長榮興：我們不會去做監控跟管制。"],["牛委員煦庭：不會主動看嘛？"],["張署長榮興：我們不會去做這個事情，警察是在執行法律，是一個執法單位，以館長這個案例來講，我們是受理民眾的檢舉。"],["牛委員煦庭：受理檢舉嘛。"],["張署長榮興：這個案件的過程是受理檢舉來偵辦的。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以這其實就回到本席剛剛那個問題，也就是說，你現在至少很明確地宣示，在辦案的過程中基本上就是不告不理，因為每天吵架你也不可能主動處理，主動處理也添麻煩，對不對？所以在不告不理的情況之下，一樣是回到標準的問題。"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，因為時間有限，本席在這邊簡單做一下結論。本席希望至少要做到透明、負責、平等，尤其是標準要齊一，本席好好等你這一份跟政治口水相關的案件調查報告，我們再來做後續討論，可以嗎？"],["張署長榮興：可以，謝謝委員。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，謝謝署長，辛苦了！"],["主席：感謝牛煦庭委員。","請張智倫委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":168,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-6","speakers":["王美惠","黃捷","牛煦庭","張智倫","許宇甄","張宏陸","麥玉珍","李柏毅","黃建賓","黃國昌","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","徐富癸","丁學忠","高金素梅","蘇巧慧","吳琪銘","林楚茵"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148501_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部、警政署署長、國家安全局、法務部針對「當前全國治安狀況與如何強化總統、副總\n統、中央政府機關首長及特定人士安全警衛作業，避免境外勢力或協力者影響國家安全」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148501_00005"}}}