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{\"start\": 56.903, \"end\": 83.362, \"text\": \"公務員退府基金破產的時間已經從2049年提前到2045年那教育人員的退府基金的破產時間也從2045提前到2042那為了彌補這個財務上的這個缺口所以我們現在還在積極投入預算來做撥補那當我們努力在搶救年金的同時那國民黨卻拼命製造年金的破口所以要請這個次長說明一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 56.903, \"end\": 57.844, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"退\", \"start\": 57.844, \"end\": 58.124, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 58.124, \"end\": 58.284, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 58.284, \"end\": 58.444, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 58.444, \"end\": 58.704, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"破\", \"start\": 58.704, \"end\": 59.065, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 59.065, \"end\": 59.585, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 59.585, \"end\": 61.226, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": 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三個代表其實都不能對於這個會議的決定有什麼樣的關鍵性的因素可是 他們就是有一起參與不用你之前再辦一個所謂做談會來諮詢就直接納入在這個審議委員會一起來討論嘛這個有很困難嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 524.898, \"end\": 526.74, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 526.74, \"end\": 527.08, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 527.08, \"end\": 527.361, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 527.361, \"end\": 527.581, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 527.581, \"end\": 527.821, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 527.821, \"end\": 528.662, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 528.662, \"end\": 528.822, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 528.822, \"end\": 529.102, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 529.102, \"end\": 529.342, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 529.342, \"end\": 529.583, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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\"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"员\", \"start\": 579.714, \"end\": 579.734, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,341 --> 00:00:35,035\n謝謝主席有請全序部懷次長好有請懷次長委員早次長早我想民進黨政府推動年金改革那為的是就在讓年金的制度永續的經營那保障年輕的公教人員在退休後都可以領到退休金那也確保每個世代年老時都能安穩無虞的生活\n\n2\n00:00:35,695 --> 00:00:55,823\n所以國民黨現在的這種反年改的行徑其實真的是反其道而行他會讓放任財務的缺口越來越大喔其實是真的負責任那我們來現在檢視一下現行的公教退府基金面臨什麼挑戰如果依照退府基金最新的第九次的精算報告\n\n3\n00:00:56,903 --> 00:01:23,362\n公務員退府基金破產的時間已經從2049年提前到2045年那教育人員的退府基金的破產時間也從2045提前到2042那為了彌補這個財務上的這個缺口所以我們現在還在積極投入預算來做撥補那當我們努力在搶救年金的同時那國民黨卻拼命製造年金的破口所以要請這個次長說明一下\n\n4\n00:01:26,164 --> 00:01:53,103\n國民黨今天的這樣子的反年改的這個惡法是不是會進一步加速年金的破產跟委員報告就是說如果說我們照目前的提案內容來看的話因為我們要停止調降嘛那停止調降事實上在未來因為我們原來是到118年嘛那我們預期本來到118年不管是公務員的部分或教室的部分大概還可以再回頭挹注基金大概2700多億\n\n5\n00:01:54,804 --> 00:02:09,363\n这个部分这个当然就会就没有那当然这个那因为你调降以后那不但没有进来那当然你这个就因为我们调降以后那就等于是说支出的部分要相对增加那当然对我们整个基金的那个财务的压力当然就会增加更多\n\n6\n00:02:10,244 --> 00:02:30,438\n那這個大概是一個那另外一個部分說如果你要再隨從限職人員待遇調整的話那這個部分就被造成說限職人員的待遇如果跟退休人員待遇太接近因為您也知道限職人員部分是繼續在工作那如果說我們這個太接近的話老實講人的本性一定想說那我如果差沒多少我幹嘛那麼辛苦還繼續工作\n\n7\n00:02:30,998 --> 00:02:32,179\n那如果真的要解決問題我想現在當然就是所謂的如何撥補這個年輕的缺口\n\n8\n00:02:52,299 --> 00:03:16,725\n那我們知道說現在的撥補策略分十年跟二十年那當然正在老師們的立場當然期待說國家採取十年的方案那能在更短的時間投入這個充分的資源不但也降低風險那促進這個基金的穩健也同時會對老師對基金比較有信心那國家其實必須付出的總預算員會比較少\n\n9\n00:03:17,745 --> 00:03:42,197\n那可是我看了一下明年度的預算行政院依照第九次精算報告是要分20年撥補的金額來編列那誠如剛剛本席所說的越快補足退伏基金的缺口那總額就會越少所以再請教次長說明一下明年度的預算還是採20年撥補的考量是什麼\n\n10\n00:03:42,897 --> 00:03:59,137\n那困難是什麼跟委員報告事實上我們在112年由部裡面跟教育部我們有開過一個會議我們當然是希望20年撥補那在112年希望20年撥補沒有沒有講錯希望10年抱歉抱歉這是我口誤希望10年撥補\n\n11\n00:04:00,018 --> 00:04:21,460\n但是因為國家的預算編制權你也知道這是屬於行政院的權限那我們有提出這樣的一個想法那這個部分最終還是要由行政院跟主席總書這邊來做那我們在115年部分已經大概編列了大概218億的部分未來在預算審查的時候也敬請各位委員給我們支持以上報告\n\n12\n00:04:22,401 --> 00:04:50,341\n那我當然可以理解就是說我們中央政府有很多的政策事務需要很靈活的預算來運用可是本席還是強調採10年撥補這是對基金的永續當然也是對中央財政支出最有利的方案所以以後再來明年度的這個應該說下一個年度的預算編列的時候是不是再來努力來改採10年撥補的方式我們會繼續爭取我們都一直都有在爭取\n\n13\n00:04:52,082 --> 00:05:11,209\n提高撥補謝謝好那我們談撥補那麼多喔其實如果這個修法通過的話其實還是一場空因為你之前二修才化法那從中央拿走4165億喔那當然這個我要請教次長這個你覺得對退伏基金的撥補的規劃有沒有影響\n\n14\n00:05:12,998 --> 00:05:28,088\n不好意思因為我並不是財政這方面預算的那個政府想當然一定會有影響嘛因為整個中央政府的這個財政規劃那好那今天今天這樣子來來修法那我想某個程度啦\n\n15\n00:05:28,328 --> 00:05:48,766\n一定是全盤打亂了我們撥普的策略就像你們在下一個年度要爭取十年撥普或許又因為財政整個狀況的這個雪上加霜的局面所以我想這個還是要請次長再努力一下就是說下一個年度既然明年已經二十年撥普的計畫那是不是在下一個年度往十年比較健全的體制去走\n\n16\n00:05:49,737 --> 00:05:59,802\n我們會繼續爭取好謝謝市長那我現在主席我現在先請人事副人事長張張副人事長謝謝好請張副人事長我想談完退休人員的權利喔我要替在職老師說說話所以跟人事總處來探討一下軍公教員工待遇審議委員會欠缺受僱者參與會議代表的問題\n\n17\n00:06:19,135 --> 00:06:44,756\n就像是全國教師會他被排除在外被排除在這個軍公教員工待遇審議委員會那我們知道說其實這個薪資這個部分有僱主跟受僱者之間的溝通機制的完備會比起我們立法委員直接透過立法權來調升軍公教的薪資待遇會更符合所謂的憲政秩序也對國家長遠的發展會比較有幫忙\n\n18\n00:06:46,818 --> 00:06:51,524\n那軍公教的薪資2018年調薪3%2022年調薪4%2024年調薪4%2025年調薪3%這些都是實質薪資的增加那不只是最低薪資的調升我們很清楚喔政府是有誠意來照顧軍公教人員\n\n19\n00:07:06,361 --> 00:07:17,728\n但因為調薪相關機制欠缺受僱者參與喔那這樣的好意就會被打折所以我覺得這個軍公教員工待遇這個調整的議題的座談會你在這個軍公教員工待遇審議委員會之前會辦一個調整的議題座談會\n\n20\n00:07:28,055 --> 00:07:55,567\n那這個也都被一般的教師團體認為說這個就是行李如意的年度大拜拜摸頭大會罷了啦所以我是不是詳情的詢問一下說是不是可以納入受僱者就像類似說教師就是全國教師會的代表那你公務人員可能就是公務協會的代表之類的來參加這個待遇審議委員會那如果不行的話那你再困難度在哪裡\n\n21\n00:07:59,695 --> 00:08:21,964\n謝謝委員的關心我想這個議題就是朝野很多委員都在關心我們過去也都做了說明現在調新的機制是有制度化來做處理包括剛剛委員提到的在我們會有一個跟軍公教團體的相關的這個諮詢會議我們這些意見也都會在我們給這個\n\n22\n00:08:27,866 --> 00:08:43,937\n行政院的這個方案當中會把這些意見通通如實的呈現那個會議紀錄也都會在我們的官網上面既然是如此的話那為什麼就不讓他們進來你說如果全國教師代表\n\n23\n00:08:44,898 --> 00:09:08,301\n你這個審議委員會其實人很多所以你多一個兩個三個代表其實都不能對於這個會議的決定有什麼樣的關鍵性的因素可是他們就是有一起參與不用你之前再辦一個所謂做談會來諮詢就直接納入在這個審議委員會一起來討論嘛這個有很困難嗎\n\n24\n00:09:09,994 --> 00:09:38,459\n跟委員包括我們也是朝這個方向在努力所以我們這個法制方案其實就是把我們在職的這個基層的代表納入那現在是還在排審當中好那請再努力啦這個某個程度讓收購者跟這個顧者有效的這個溝通才是我們未來最有利的方向啦好不好OK謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝委員\n\n25\n00:09:39,043 --> 00:09:39,734\n好,谢谢林委员。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6341\t35035\t謝謝主席 有請全序部懷次長好 有請懷次長委員早次長早我想民進黨政府推動年金改革那為的是就在讓年金的制度永續的經營那保障年輕的公教人員在退休後都可以領到退休金那也確保每個世代年老時都能安穩無虞的生活\n35695\t55823\t所以國民黨現在的這種反年改的行徑其實真的是反其道而行他會讓放任財務的缺口越來越大喔其實是真的負責任那我們來現在檢視一下現行的公教退府基金面臨什麼挑戰如果依照退府基金最新的第九次的精算報告\n56903\t83362\t公務員退府基金破產的時間已經從2049年提前到2045年那教育人員的退府基金的破產時間也從2045提前到2042那為了彌補這個財務上的這個缺口所以我們現在還在積極投入預算來做撥補那當我們努力在搶救年金的同時那國民黨卻拼命製造年金的破口所以要請這個次長說明一下\n86164\t113103\t國民黨今天的這樣子的反年改的這個惡法是不是會進一步加速年金的破產跟委員報告就是說如果說我們照目前的提案內容來看的話因為我們要停止調降嘛那停止調降事實上在未來因為我們原來是到118年嘛那我們預期本來到118年不管是公務員的部分或教室的部分大概還可以再回頭挹注基金大概2700多億\n114804\t129363\t这个部分这个当然就会就没有那当然这个那因为你调降以后那不但没有进来那当然你这个就因为我们调降以后那就等于是说支出的部分要相对增加那当然对我们整个基金的那个财务的压力当然就会增加更多\n130244\t150438\t那這個大概是一個那另外一個部分說如果你要再隨從限職人員待遇調整的話那這個部分就被造成說限職人員的待遇如果跟退休人員待遇太接近因為您也知道限職人員部分是繼續在工作那如果說我們這個太接近的話老實講人的本性一定想說那我如果差沒多少我幹嘛那麼辛苦還繼續工作\n150998\t152179\t那如果真的要解決問題我想現在當然就是所謂的如何撥補這個年輕的缺口\n172299\t196725\t那我們知道說現在的撥補策略分十年跟二十年那當然正在老師們的立場當然期待說國家採取十年的方案那能在更短的時間投入這個充分的資源不但也降低風險那促進這個基金的穩健也同時會對老師對基金比較有信心那國家其實必須付出的總預算員會比較少\n197745\t222197\t那可是我看了一下明年度的預算行政院依照第九次精算報告是要分20年撥補的金額來編列那誠如剛剛本席所說的越快補足退伏基金的缺口那總額就會越少所以再請教次長說明一下明年度的預算還是採20年撥補的考量是什麼\n222897\t239137\t那困難是什麼跟委員報告 事實上我們在112年由部裡面跟教育部我們有開過一個會議我們當然是希望20年撥補那在112年 希望20年撥補沒有沒有講錯 希望10年 抱歉抱歉這是我口誤 希望10年撥補\n240018\t261460\t但是因為國家的預算編制權你也知道這是屬於行政院的權限那我們有提出這樣的一個想法那這個部分最終還是要由行政院跟主席總書這邊來做那我們在115年部分已經大概編列了大概218億的部分未來在預算審查的時候也敬請各位委員給我們支持以上報告\n262401\t290341\t那我當然可以理解就是說我們中央政府有很多的政策事務需要很靈活的預算來運用可是本席還是強調採10年撥補這是對基金的永續當然也是對中央財政支出最有利的方案所以以後再來明年度的這個應該說下一個年度的預算編列的時候是不是再來努力來改採10年撥補的方式我們會繼續爭取我們都一直都有在爭取\n292082\t311209\t提高撥補 謝謝好那我們談撥補那麼多喔其實如果這個修法通過的話其實還是一場空因為你之前二修才化法那從中央拿走4165億喔那當然這個我要請教次長這個你覺得對退伏基金的撥補的規劃有沒有影響\n312998\t328088\t不好意思因為我並不是財政這方面預算的那個政府 想當然一定會有影響嘛因為整個中央政府的這個財政規劃那好那今天今天這樣子來來修法那我想某個程度啦\n328328\t348766\t一定是全盤打亂了我們撥普的策略 就像你們在下一個年度要爭取十年撥普或許又因為財政整個狀況的這個雪上加霜的局面所以我想 這個還是要請次長再努力一下就是說下一個年度 既然明年已經二十年撥普的計畫那是不是在下一個年度往十年比較健全的體制去走\n349737\t359802\t我們會繼續爭取 好 謝謝市長 那我現在主席 我現在先請人事副人事長 張張副人事長 謝謝好 請張副人事長我想談完退休人員的權利喔我要替在職老師說說話所以跟人事總處來探討一下軍公教員工待遇審議委員會欠缺受僱者參與會議代表的問題\n379135\t404756\t就像是全國教師會他被排除在外被排除在這個軍公教員工待遇審議委員會那我們知道說其實這個薪資這個部分有僱主跟受僱者之間的溝通機制的完備會比起我們立法委員直接透過立法權來調升軍公教的薪資待遇會更符合所謂的憲政秩序也對國家長遠的發展會比較有幫忙\n406818\t411524\t那軍公教的薪資2018年調薪3%2022年調薪4%2024年調薪4%2025年調薪3%這些都是實質薪資的增加那不只是最低薪資的調升我們很清楚喔 政府是有誠意來照顧軍公教人員\n426361\t437728\t但因為調薪相關機制欠缺受僱者參與喔那這樣的好意就會被打折所以我覺得這個軍公教員工待遇這個調整的議題的座談會你在這個軍公教員工待遇審議委員會之前會辦一個調整的議題座談會\n448055\t475567\t那這個也都被一般的教師團體認為說這個就是行李如意的年度大拜拜摸頭大會罷了啦所以我是不是詳情的詢問一下說是不是可以納入受僱者就像類似說教師就是全國教師會的代表那你公務人員可能就是公務協會的代表之類的來參加這個待遇審議委員會那如果不行的話那你再困難度在哪裡\n479695\t501964\t謝謝委員的關心我想這個議題就是朝野很多委員都在關心我們過去也都做了說明現在調新的機制是有制度化來做處理包括剛剛委員提到的在我們會有一個跟軍公教團體的相關的這個諮詢會議我們這些意見也都會在我們給這個\n507866\t523937\t行政院的這個方案當中 會把這些意見通通如實的呈現 那個會議紀錄也都會在我們的官網上面 既然是如此的話 那為什麼就不讓他們進來 你說如果全國教師代表\n524898\t548301\t你這個審議委員會 其實人很多所以 你多一個 兩個 三個代表其實都不能對於這個會議的決定有什麼樣的關鍵性的因素可是 他們就是有一起參與不用你之前再辦一個所謂做談會來諮詢就直接納入在這個審議委員會一起來討論嘛這個有很困難嗎\n549994\t578459\t跟委員包括我們也是朝這個方向在努力所以我們這個法制方案其實就是把我們在職的這個基層的代表納入那現在是還在排審當中好 那請再努力啦這個某個程度讓收購者跟這個顧者有效的這個溝通才是我們未來最有利的方向啦 好不好OK 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員\n579043\t579734\t好,谢谢林委员。\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請全序部懷次長好 有請懷次長委員早次長早我想民進黨政府推動年金改革那為的是就在讓年金的制度永續的經營那保障年輕的公教人員在退休後都可以領到退休金那也確保每個世代年老時都能安穩無虞的生活\n所以國民黨現在的這種反年改的行徑其實真的是反其道而行他會讓放任財務的缺口越來越大喔其實是真的負責任那我們來現在檢視一下現行的公教退府基金面臨什麼挑戰如果依照退府基金最新的第九次的精算報告\n公務員退府基金破產的時間已經從2049年提前到2045年那教育人員的退府基金的破產時間也從2045提前到2042那為了彌補這個財務上的這個缺口所以我們現在還在積極投入預算來做撥補那當我們努力在搶救年金的同時那國民黨卻拼命製造年金的破口所以要請這個次長說明一下\n國民黨今天的這樣子的反年改的這個惡法是不是會進一步加速年金的破產跟委員報告就是說如果說我們照目前的提案內容來看的話因為我們要停止調降嘛那停止調降事實上在未來因為我們原來是到118年嘛那我們預期本來到118年不管是公務員的部分或教室的部分大概還可以再回頭挹注基金大概2700多億\n这个部分这个当然就会就没有那当然这个那因为你调降以后那不但没有进来那当然你这个就因为我们调降以后那就等于是说支出的部分要相对增加那当然对我们整个基金的那个财务的压力当然就会增加更多\n那這個大概是一個那另外一個部分說如果你要再隨從限職人員待遇調整的話那這個部分就被造成說限職人員的待遇如果跟退休人員待遇太接近因為您也知道限職人員部分是繼續在工作那如果說我們這個太接近的話老實講人的本性一定想說那我如果差沒多少我幹嘛那麼辛苦還繼續工作\n那如果真的要解決問題我想現在當然就是所謂的如何撥補這個年輕的缺口\n那我們知道說現在的撥補策略分十年跟二十年那當然正在老師們的立場當然期待說國家採取十年的方案那能在更短的時間投入這個充分的資源不但也降低風險那促進這個基金的穩健也同時會對老師對基金比較有信心那國家其實必須付出的總預算員會比較少\n那可是我看了一下明年度的預算行政院依照第九次精算報告是要分20年撥補的金額來編列那誠如剛剛本席所說的越快補足退伏基金的缺口那總額就會越少所以再請教次長說明一下明年度的預算還是採20年撥補的考量是什麼\n那困難是什麼跟委員報告 事實上我們在112年由部裡面跟教育部我們有開過一個會議我們當然是希望20年撥補那在112年 希望20年撥補沒有沒有講錯 希望10年 抱歉抱歉這是我口誤 希望10年撥補\n但是因為國家的預算編制權你也知道這是屬於行政院的權限那我們有提出這樣的一個想法那這個部分最終還是要由行政院跟主席總書這邊來做那我們在115年部分已經大概編列了大概218億的部分未來在預算審查的時候也敬請各位委員給我們支持以上報告\n那我當然可以理解就是說我們中央政府有很多的政策事務需要很靈活的預算來運用可是本席還是強調採10年撥補這是對基金的永續當然也是對中央財政支出最有利的方案所以以後再來明年度的這個應該說下一個年度的預算編列的時候是不是再來努力來改採10年撥補的方式我們會繼續爭取我們都一直都有在爭取\n提高撥補 謝謝好那我們談撥補那麼多喔其實如果這個修法通過的話其實還是一場空因為你之前二修才化法那從中央拿走4165億喔那當然這個我要請教次長這個你覺得對退伏基金的撥補的規劃有沒有影響\n不好意思因為我並不是財政這方面預算的那個政府 想當然一定會有影響嘛因為整個中央政府的這個財政規劃那好那今天今天這樣子來來修法那我想某個程度啦\n一定是全盤打亂了我們撥普的策略 就像你們在下一個年度要爭取十年撥普或許又因為財政整個狀況的這個雪上加霜的局面所以我想 這個還是要請次長再努力一下就是說下一個年度 既然明年已經二十年撥普的計畫那是不是在下一個年度往十年比較健全的體制去走\n我們會繼續爭取 好 謝謝市長 那我現在主席 我現在先請人事副人事長 張張副人事長 謝謝好 請張副人事長我想談完退休人員的權利喔我要替在職老師說說話所以跟人事總處來探討一下軍公教員工待遇審議委員會欠缺受僱者參與會議代表的問題\n就像是全國教師會他被排除在外被排除在這個軍公教員工待遇審議委員會那我們知道說其實這個薪資這個部分有僱主跟受僱者之間的溝通機制的完備會比起我們立法委員直接透過立法權來調升軍公教的薪資待遇會更符合所謂的憲政秩序也對國家長遠的發展會比較有幫忙\n那軍公教的薪資2018年調薪3%2022年調薪4%2024年調薪4%2025年調薪3%這些都是實質薪資的增加那不只是最低薪資的調升我們很清楚喔 政府是有誠意來照顧軍公教人員\n但因為調薪相關機制欠缺受僱者參與喔那這樣的好意就會被打折所以我覺得這個軍公教員工待遇這個調整的議題的座談會你在這個軍公教員工待遇審議委員會之前會辦一個調整的議題座談會\n那這個也都被一般的教師團體認為說這個就是行李如意的年度大拜拜摸頭大會罷了啦所以我是不是詳情的詢問一下說是不是可以納入受僱者就像類似說教師就是全國教師會的代表那你公務人員可能就是公務協會的代表之類的來參加這個待遇審議委員會那如果不行的話那你再困難度在哪裡\n謝謝委員的關心我想這個議題就是朝野很多委員都在關心我們過去也都做了說明現在調新的機制是有制度化來做處理包括剛剛委員提到的在我們會有一個跟軍公教團體的相關的這個諮詢會議我們這些意見也都會在我們給這個\n行政院的這個方案當中 會把這些意見通通如實的呈現 那個會議紀錄也都會在我們的官網上面 既然是如此的話 那為什麼就不讓他們進來 你說如果全國教師代表\n你這個審議委員會 其實人很多所以 你多一個 兩個 三個代表其實都不能對於這個會議的決定有什麼樣的關鍵性的因素可是 他們就是有一起參與不用你之前再辦一個所謂做談會來諮詢就直接納入在這個審議委員會一起來討論嘛這個有很困難嗎\n跟委員包括我們也是朝這個方向在努力所以我們這個法制方案其實就是把我們在職的這個基層的代表納入那現在是還在排審當中好 那請再努力啦這個某個程度讓收購者跟這個顧者有效的這個溝通才是我們未來最有利的方向啦 好不好OK 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員\n好,谢谢林委员。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.341 --> 00:35.035\n謝謝主席有請全序部懷次長好有請懷次長委員早次長早我想民進黨政府推動年金改革那為的是就在讓年金的制度永續的經營那保障年輕的公教人員在退休後都可以領到退休金那也確保每個世代年老時都能安穩無虞的生活\n\n00:35.695 --> 00:55.823\n所以國民黨現在的這種反年改的行徑其實真的是反其道而行他會讓放任財務的缺口越來越大喔其實是真的負責任那我們來現在檢視一下現行的公教退府基金面臨什麼挑戰如果依照退府基金最新的第九次的精算報告\n\n00:56.903 --> 01:23.362\n公務員退府基金破產的時間已經從2049年提前到2045年那教育人員的退府基金的破產時間也從2045提前到2042那為了彌補這個財務上的這個缺口所以我們現在還在積極投入預算來做撥補那當我們努力在搶救年金的同時那國民黨卻拼命製造年金的破口所以要請這個次長說明一下\n\n01:26.164 --> 01:53.103\n國民黨今天的這樣子的反年改的這個惡法是不是會進一步加速年金的破產跟委員報告就是說如果說我們照目前的提案內容來看的話因為我們要停止調降嘛那停止調降事實上在未來因為我們原來是到118年嘛那我們預期本來到118年不管是公務員的部分或教室的部分大概還可以再回頭挹注基金大概2700多億\n\n01:54.804 --> 02:09.363\n这个部分这个当然就会就没有那当然这个那因为你调降以后那不但没有进来那当然你这个就因为我们调降以后那就等于是说支出的部分要相对增加那当然对我们整个基金的那个财务的压力当然就会增加更多\n\n02:10.244 --> 02:30.438\n那這個大概是一個那另外一個部分說如果你要再隨從限職人員待遇調整的話那這個部分就被造成說限職人員的待遇如果跟退休人員待遇太接近因為您也知道限職人員部分是繼續在工作那如果說我們這個太接近的話老實講人的本性一定想說那我如果差沒多少我幹嘛那麼辛苦還繼續工作\n\n02:30.998 --> 02:32.179\n那如果真的要解決問題我想現在當然就是所謂的如何撥補這個年輕的缺口\n\n02:52.299 --> 03:16.725\n那我們知道說現在的撥補策略分十年跟二十年那當然正在老師們的立場當然期待說國家採取十年的方案那能在更短的時間投入這個充分的資源不但也降低風險那促進這個基金的穩健也同時會對老師對基金比較有信心那國家其實必須付出的總預算員會比較少\n\n03:17.745 --> 03:42.197\n那可是我看了一下明年度的預算行政院依照第九次精算報告是要分20年撥補的金額來編列那誠如剛剛本席所說的越快補足退伏基金的缺口那總額就會越少所以再請教次長說明一下明年度的預算還是採20年撥補的考量是什麼\n\n03:42.897 --> 03:59.137\n那困難是什麼跟委員報告事實上我們在112年由部裡面跟教育部我們有開過一個會議我們當然是希望20年撥補那在112年希望20年撥補沒有沒有講錯希望10年抱歉抱歉這是我口誤希望10年撥補\n\n04:00.018 --> 04:21.460\n但是因為國家的預算編制權你也知道這是屬於行政院的權限那我們有提出這樣的一個想法那這個部分最終還是要由行政院跟主席總書這邊來做那我們在115年部分已經大概編列了大概218億的部分未來在預算審查的時候也敬請各位委員給我們支持以上報告\n\n04:22.401 --> 04:50.341\n那我當然可以理解就是說我們中央政府有很多的政策事務需要很靈活的預算來運用可是本席還是強調採10年撥補這是對基金的永續當然也是對中央財政支出最有利的方案所以以後再來明年度的這個應該說下一個年度的預算編列的時候是不是再來努力來改採10年撥補的方式我們會繼續爭取我們都一直都有在爭取\n\n04:52.082 --> 05:11.209\n提高撥補謝謝好那我們談撥補那麼多喔其實如果這個修法通過的話其實還是一場空因為你之前二修才化法那從中央拿走4165億喔那當然這個我要請教次長這個你覺得對退伏基金的撥補的規劃有沒有影響\n\n05:12.998 --> 05:28.088\n不好意思因為我並不是財政這方面預算的那個政府想當然一定會有影響嘛因為整個中央政府的這個財政規劃那好那今天今天這樣子來來修法那我想某個程度啦\n\n05:28.328 --> 05:48.766\n一定是全盤打亂了我們撥普的策略就像你們在下一個年度要爭取十年撥普或許又因為財政整個狀況的這個雪上加霜的局面所以我想這個還是要請次長再努力一下就是說下一個年度既然明年已經二十年撥普的計畫那是不是在下一個年度往十年比較健全的體制去走\n\n05:49.737 --> 05:59.802\n我們會繼續爭取好謝謝市長那我現在主席我現在先請人事副人事長張張副人事長謝謝好請張副人事長我想談完退休人員的權利喔我要替在職老師說說話所以跟人事總處來探討一下軍公教員工待遇審議委員會欠缺受僱者參與會議代表的問題\n\n06:19.135 --> 06:44.756\n就像是全國教師會他被排除在外被排除在這個軍公教員工待遇審議委員會那我們知道說其實這個薪資這個部分有僱主跟受僱者之間的溝通機制的完備會比起我們立法委員直接透過立法權來調升軍公教的薪資待遇會更符合所謂的憲政秩序也對國家長遠的發展會比較有幫忙\n\n06:46.818 --> 06:51.524\n那軍公教的薪資2018年調薪3%2022年調薪4%2024年調薪4%2025年調薪3%這些都是實質薪資的增加那不只是最低薪資的調升我們很清楚喔政府是有誠意來照顧軍公教人員\n\n07:06.361 --> 07:17.728\n但因為調薪相關機制欠缺受僱者參與喔那這樣的好意就會被打折所以我覺得這個軍公教員工待遇這個調整的議題的座談會你在這個軍公教員工待遇審議委員會之前會辦一個調整的議題座談會\n\n07:28.055 --> 07:55.567\n那這個也都被一般的教師團體認為說這個就是行李如意的年度大拜拜摸頭大會罷了啦所以我是不是詳情的詢問一下說是不是可以納入受僱者就像類似說教師就是全國教師會的代表那你公務人員可能就是公務協會的代表之類的來參加這個待遇審議委員會那如果不行的話那你再困難度在哪裡\n\n07:59.695 --> 08:21.964\n謝謝委員的關心我想這個議題就是朝野很多委員都在關心我們過去也都做了說明現在調新的機制是有制度化來做處理包括剛剛委員提到的在我們會有一個跟軍公教團體的相關的這個諮詢會議我們這些意見也都會在我們給這個\n\n08:27.866 --> 08:43.937\n行政院的這個方案當中會把這些意見通通如實的呈現那個會議紀錄也都會在我們的官網上面既然是如此的話那為什麼就不讓他們進來你說如果全國教師代表\n\n08:44.898 --> 09:08.301\n你這個審議委員會其實人很多所以你多一個兩個三個代表其實都不能對於這個會議的決定有什麼樣的關鍵性的因素可是他們就是有一起參與不用你之前再辦一個所謂做談會來諮詢就直接納入在這個審議委員會一起來討論嘛這個有很困難嗎\n\n09:09.994 --> 09:38.459\n跟委員包括我們也是朝這個方向在努力所以我們這個法制方案其實就是把我們在職的這個基層的代表納入那現在是還在排審當中好那請再努力啦這個某個程度讓收購者跟這個顧者有效的這個溝通才是我們未來最有利的方向啦好不好OK謝謝謝謝主席好謝謝委員\n\n09:39.043 --> 09:39.734\n好,谢谢林委员。\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.341,"end":35.035,"text":"謝謝主席 有請全序部懷次長好 有請懷次長委員早次長早我想民進黨政府推動年金改革那為的是就在讓年金的制度永續的經營那保障年輕的公教人員在退休後都可以領到退休金那也確保每個世代年老時都能安穩無虞的生活"},{"start":35.695,"end":55.823,"text":"所以國民黨現在的這種反年改的行徑其實真的是反其道而行他會讓放任財務的缺口越來越大喔其實是真的負責任那我們來現在檢視一下現行的公教退府基金面臨什麼挑戰如果依照退府基金最新的第九次的精算報告"},{"start":56.903,"end":83.362,"text":"公務員退府基金破產的時間已經從2049年提前到2045年那教育人員的退府基金的破產時間也從2045提前到2042那為了彌補這個財務上的這個缺口所以我們現在還在積極投入預算來做撥補那當我們努力在搶救年金的同時那國民黨卻拼命製造年金的破口所以要請這個次長說明一下"},{"start":86.164,"end":113.103,"text":"國民黨今天的這樣子的反年改的這個惡法是不是會進一步加速年金的破產跟委員報告就是說如果說我們照目前的提案內容來看的話因為我們要停止調降嘛那停止調降事實上在未來因為我們原來是到118年嘛那我們預期本來到118年不管是公務員的部分或教室的部分大概還可以再回頭挹注基金大概2700多億"},{"start":114.804,"end":129.363,"text":"这个部分这个当然就会就没有那当然这个那因为你调降以后那不但没有进来那当然你这个就因为我们调降以后那就等于是说支出的部分要相对增加那当然对我们整个基金的那个财务的压力当然就会增加更多"},{"start":130.244,"end":150.438,"text":"那這個大概是一個那另外一個部分說如果你要再隨從限職人員待遇調整的話那這個部分就被造成說限職人員的待遇如果跟退休人員待遇太接近因為您也知道限職人員部分是繼續在工作那如果說我們這個太接近的話老實講人的本性一定想說那我如果差沒多少我幹嘛那麼辛苦還繼續工作"},{"start":150.998,"end":152.179,"text":"那如果真的要解決問題我想現在當然就是所謂的如何撥補這個年輕的缺口"},{"start":172.299,"end":196.725,"text":"那我們知道說現在的撥補策略分十年跟二十年那當然正在老師們的立場當然期待說國家採取十年的方案那能在更短的時間投入這個充分的資源不但也降低風險那促進這個基金的穩健也同時會對老師對基金比較有信心那國家其實必須付出的總預算員會比較少"},{"start":197.745,"end":222.197,"text":"那可是我看了一下明年度的預算行政院依照第九次精算報告是要分20年撥補的金額來編列那誠如剛剛本席所說的越快補足退伏基金的缺口那總額就會越少所以再請教次長說明一下明年度的預算還是採20年撥補的考量是什麼"},{"start":222.897,"end":239.137,"text":"那困難是什麼跟委員報告 事實上我們在112年由部裡面跟教育部我們有開過一個會議我們當然是希望20年撥補那在112年 希望20年撥補沒有沒有講錯 希望10年 抱歉抱歉這是我口誤 希望10年撥補"},{"start":240.018,"end":261.46,"text":"但是因為國家的預算編制權你也知道這是屬於行政院的權限那我們有提出這樣的一個想法那這個部分最終還是要由行政院跟主席總書這邊來做那我們在115年部分已經大概編列了大概218億的部分未來在預算審查的時候也敬請各位委員給我們支持以上報告"},{"start":262.401,"end":290.341,"text":"那我當然可以理解就是說我們中央政府有很多的政策事務需要很靈活的預算來運用可是本席還是強調採10年撥補這是對基金的永續當然也是對中央財政支出最有利的方案所以以後再來明年度的這個應該說下一個年度的預算編列的時候是不是再來努力來改採10年撥補的方式我們會繼續爭取我們都一直都有在爭取"},{"start":292.082,"end":311.209,"text":"提高撥補 謝謝好那我們談撥補那麼多喔其實如果這個修法通過的話其實還是一場空因為你之前二修才化法那從中央拿走4165億喔那當然這個我要請教次長這個你覺得對退伏基金的撥補的規劃有沒有影響"},{"start":312.998,"end":328.088,"text":"不好意思因為我並不是財政這方面預算的那個政府 想當然一定會有影響嘛因為整個中央政府的這個財政規劃那好那今天今天這樣子來來修法那我想某個程度啦"},{"start":328.328,"end":348.766,"text":"一定是全盤打亂了我們撥普的策略 就像你們在下一個年度要爭取十年撥普或許又因為財政整個狀況的這個雪上加霜的局面所以我想 這個還是要請次長再努力一下就是說下一個年度 既然明年已經二十年撥普的計畫那是不是在下一個年度往十年比較健全的體制去走"},{"start":349.737,"end":359.802,"text":"我們會繼續爭取 好 謝謝市長 那我現在主席 我現在先請人事副人事長 張張副人事長 謝謝好 請張副人事長我想談完退休人員的權利喔我要替在職老師說說話所以跟人事總處來探討一下軍公教員工待遇審議委員會欠缺受僱者參與會議代表的問題"},{"start":379.135,"end":404.756,"text":"就像是全國教師會他被排除在外被排除在這個軍公教員工待遇審議委員會那我們知道說其實這個薪資這個部分有僱主跟受僱者之間的溝通機制的完備會比起我們立法委員直接透過立法權來調升軍公教的薪資待遇會更符合所謂的憲政秩序也對國家長遠的發展會比較有幫忙"},{"start":406.818,"end":411.524,"text":"那軍公教的薪資2018年調薪3%2022年調薪4%2024年調薪4%2025年調薪3%這些都是實質薪資的增加那不只是最低薪資的調升我們很清楚喔 政府是有誠意來照顧軍公教人員"},{"start":426.361,"end":437.728,"text":"但因為調薪相關機制欠缺受僱者參與喔那這樣的好意就會被打折所以我覺得這個軍公教員工待遇這個調整的議題的座談會你在這個軍公教員工待遇審議委員會之前會辦一個調整的議題座談會"},{"start":448.055,"end":475.567,"text":"那這個也都被一般的教師團體認為說這個就是行李如意的年度大拜拜摸頭大會罷了啦所以我是不是詳情的詢問一下說是不是可以納入受僱者就像類似說教師就是全國教師會的代表那你公務人員可能就是公務協會的代表之類的來參加這個待遇審議委員會那如果不行的話那你再困難度在哪裡"},{"start":479.695,"end":501.964,"text":"謝謝委員的關心我想這個議題就是朝野很多委員都在關心我們過去也都做了說明現在調新的機制是有制度化來做處理包括剛剛委員提到的在我們會有一個跟軍公教團體的相關的這個諮詢會議我們這些意見也都會在我們給這個"},{"start":507.866,"end":523.937,"text":"行政院的這個方案當中 會把這些意見通通如實的呈現 那個會議紀錄也都會在我們的官網上面 既然是如此的話 那為什麼就不讓他們進來 你說如果全國教師代表"},{"start":524.898,"end":548.301,"text":"你這個審議委員會 其實人很多所以 你多一個 兩個 三個代表其實都不能對於這個會議的決定有什麼樣的關鍵性的因素可是 他們就是有一起參與不用你之前再辦一個所謂做談會來諮詢就直接納入在這個審議委員會一起來討論嘛這個有很困難嗎"},{"start":549.994,"end":578.459,"text":"跟委員包括我們也是朝這個方向在努力所以我們這個法制方案其實就是把我們在職的這個基層的代表納入那現在是還在排審當中好 那請再努力啦這個某個程度讓收購者跟這個顧者有效的這個溝通才是我們未來最有利的方向啦 好不好OK 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝委員"},{"start":579.043,"end":579.734,"text":"好,谢谢林委员。"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":569,"blocks":[["林委員宜瑾：（10時54分）謝謝主席。有請銓敘部懷次長。"],["主席：有請懷次長。"],["懷次長敍：委員早。"],["林委員宜瑾：次長早。","我想民進黨政府推動年金改革，為的是讓年金制度永續的經營，要保障年輕的公教人員在退休後都可以領到退休金，也確保每個世代年老時都能安穩無虞的生活。所以國民黨現在這種反年改的行徑真的是反其道而行，他會放任財務的缺口越來越大，其實真的不負責任。","我們現在先來檢視現行的公教退撫基金面臨什麼挑戰。若依照退撫基金最新的第九次精算報告，公務人員退撫基金破產的時間已經從2049年提前到2045年，教育人員退撫基金的破產時間也從2045年提前到2042年。為了彌補這個財務上的缺口，我們現在還在積極投入預算來作撥補。當我們在努力搶救年金的同時，國民黨卻拼命製造年金的破口！所以要請次長說明一下，國民黨今天這樣子反年改的惡法，是不是會進一步加速年金的破產？"],["懷次長敍：跟委員報告，如果照目前的提案內容來看，因為我們要停止調降，而停止調降，事實上在未來，我們原來是預期到118年，不管是公務員或教師的部分，大概還可以再回頭挹注基金二千七百多億元，這個部分當然就沒有了。因為調降以後，不但沒有進來，等於支出部分要相對增加，對我們整個基金的財務壓力當然就會增加更多。這是一部分。","另外一個部分，如果要隨同現職人員待遇調整的話，就會造成現職人員的待遇跟退休人員待遇太接近。因為您也知道，現職人員是繼續在工作，如果待遇太接近，老實講，人的本性一定想如果差沒多少，我幹嘛那麼辛苦還繼續工作，這會引起早退的情況。"],["林委員宜瑾：當然、當然，沒錯！"],["懷次長敍：事實上，目前我所知道的，其實包括中國大陸也希望延後退休，整個趨勢是不太一樣的。以上簡單報告。"],["林委員宜瑾：如果真的要解決問題，我想現在當然就是所謂如何撥補年金的缺口。我們知道現在的撥補策略分10年跟20年，站在老師們的立場，當然期待國家採取10年的方案，能在更短的時間投入充分的資源，不但降低風險、促進基金的穩健，同時老師也會對基金比較有信心，國家其實必須付出的總預算也會比較少。可是我看了一下明年度的預算，行政院依照第九次精算報告，是要分20年的撥補金額來編列。誠如剛剛本席所說的，越快補足退撫基金的缺口，總額就會越少。所以再請次長說明，明年度的預算還是採20年撥補的考量是什麼？困難是什麼？"],["懷次長敍：跟委員報告，事實上我們在112年，部裡面跟教育部有開過一個會，我們當然希望20年撥補啦……"],["林委員宜瑾：希望20年撥補？"],["懷次長敍：不對，講錯了，希望10年，抱歉、抱歉，是我口誤，是希望10年撥補，但是因為國家的預算編制權，您也知道這是屬於行政院的權限，我們有提出這樣的想法，但這個部分最終還是要由行政院跟主計總處來做。我們在115年已經編列了大概218億元，未來在預算審查的時候，也敬請各位委員給我們支持。以上報告。"],["林委員宜瑾：我當然可以理解啦，中央政府有很多的政策事務需要很靈活的預算來運用，可是本席還是強調，採10年撥補，這是對基金的永續、當然也是對中央財政支出最有利的方案。再來明年度，應該說下一個年度預算編列的時候是不是再來努力改採10年撥補的方式？"],["懷次長敍：謝謝委員指導，我們會繼續爭取，我們一直都有在爭取，希望提高撥補。謝謝。"],["林委員宜瑾：好。我們談撥補那麼多，如果這個修法通過的話，其實還是一場空！因為之前惡修財劃法，從中央拿走4,165億元，我要請教次長，你覺得這個對退撫基金撥補的規劃有沒有影響？"],["懷次長敍：不好意思，因為我並不是負責財政、預算的事務。"],["林委員宜瑾：想當然耳一定會有影響嘛，整個中央政府的財政規劃。今天這樣子來修法，我想某個程度一定是全盤打亂了撥補策略，就像你再來下個年度要爭取10年撥補，或許會因為整個財政狀況雪上加霜的局面，所以還是要請次長再努力一下，就是說下一個年度，既然明年已經有20年撥補的計畫，是不是在下個年度往10年比較健全的體制去走？"],["懷次長敍：會，我們會繼續爭取，謝謝委員。"],["林委員宜瑾：謝謝次長。","主席，我現在先請張副人事長，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請張副人事長。"],["林委員宜瑾：談完退休人員的權利，我要替在職的老師說說話，所以跟人事總處來探討一下軍公教員工待遇審議委員會欠缺受僱者參與會議代表的問題，就像是全國教師會，它被排除在外、被排除在軍公教員工待遇審議委員會。我們知道其實薪資這個部分，雇主跟受僱者之間溝通機制的完備，比起立法委員直接透過立法權調升軍公教的薪資待遇會更符合所謂的憲政秩序，也對國家長遠的發展會比較有幫忙。軍公教的薪資2018年調薪3%，2022年調薪4%，2024年調薪4%，2025年調薪3%，這些都是實質薪資的增加。","不只是最低薪資的調升，我們很清楚，政府是有誠意來照顧軍公教人員，但因為調薪相關機制欠缺受僱者參與，這樣的好意就會被打折。有關軍公教員工待遇調整議題的座談會，你在軍公教員工待遇審議委員會之前，會辦一個調整的議題座談會，這個也都被一般的教師團體認為說就是行禮如儀的年度大拜拜、摸頭大會罷了，所以我跟你詢問一下，是不是可以納入受僱者，類似教師就是全國教師會的代表，公務人員可能就是公務協會代表之類的來參加這個待遇審議委員會？如果不行的話，你到底困難度在哪裡？"],["張副人事長秋元：謝謝委員的關心，我想這個議題朝野很多委員都在關心，我們過去也都做了說明，現在調薪的機制是有制度化來處理，包括剛剛委員提到的，我們會有一個跟軍公教團體相關的諮詢會議，這些意見也都會在我們給行政院的方案當中通通如實的呈現，會議紀錄也都會在我們的官網上面公開。"],["林委員宜瑾：了解，既然是如此，為什麼就不讓他們進來？你說如果是全國教師代表，這個審議委員會其實人很多，所以你多一個、兩個、三個代表其實都不能對於這個會議的決定有什麼樣的關鍵性因素，可是他們就是有一起參與，你不用之前再辦一個什麼座談會來諮詢，就直接納入在這個審議委員會一起來討論嘛，這有很困難嗎？"],["張副人事長秋元：跟委員報告，我們也是朝這個方向在努力，所以我們的法制化方案其實就是把在職的基層代表納入，現在還在排審當中。"],["林委員宜瑾：對，好，那請再努力，某個程度讓受僱者跟僱者有效的溝通才是未來最有利的方向，好不好？OK！謝謝、謝謝主席。"],["張副人事長秋元：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝林委員。我們先休息5分鐘。","休息（11時3分）","繼續開會（11時9分）"],["主席：好，現在繼續開會。","接下來請張雅琳委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1","speakers":["翁曉玲","賴士葆","張智倫","許宇甄","黃健豪","林倩綺","黃國昌","王義川","柯志恩","陳培瑜","萬美玲","劉書彬","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","林宜瑾","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","王鴻薇","范雲","黃建賓","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","吳沛憶","葉元之","陳秀寳","沈發惠","謝龍介","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","吳宗憲","傅崐萁"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草\n案」案；( 二) 國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案；(三)委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條\n文修正草案」案；(四)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條\n文修正草案」案；(五)委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(六)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(七)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n部分條文修正草案」案；(八)委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(九)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(十)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1148601_00002"}}}