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00:01:00,909\n委員好已經參謀長報告那的確我們當初在測試的整個規劃上面上是有點樂觀那現在是面臨比較大的挑戰好現在看起來就是沒有辦法如期交件好所以次長啊還有那個參謀長\n\n4\n00:01:14,758 --> 00:01:29,748\n我們其實等待海昆號已經等待非常久了那相關的海側的時間跳票現在交件的時間也跳票但是與此同時我們也看到日本最近下海的蒼金號\n\n5\n00:01:31,989 --> 00:01:35,912\n好下海然後它的相關的造價呢也有媒體這樣披露所以讓我們很多民眾非常崩潰也就是我們造價超過500億的我們的海昆號左等右等錢也是你們在花的\n\n6\n00:01:51,702 --> 00:02:05,092\n話也是你們在講的說什麼時候一定會如期的進行海策如期的交建但是現在呢看起來都是自欺欺人我不曉得要延後到什麼時候所以我想請問一下就是讓民眾非常崩潰的事情就是為什麼同樣的日本一條一條的潛艦在下水而它的造價比我們低那麼多\n\n7\n00:02:19,269 --> 00:02:22,953\n如果按照這樣的說看我們的造價相差這麼多的一個狀況之下請問一下未來我們的國建國造可不可以把轉為我們跟日本來買讓日本賣給我們我這樣算一下我們未來有7條的前件你們編了2800多億\n\n8\n00:02:41,972 --> 00:03:10,862\n那如果我們跟日本買的話立刻可以減少六成以上至少我們納稅人的錢可以少很多所以想請問一下我們現在計畫要繼續花這麼多的錢嗎他們已經是造到大驚奇的第六騷然後他的價格已經可以降低到不到145億那為什麼我們還是要維持這麼高的一個價格可不可以跟日本去買\n\n9\n00:03:12,369 --> 00:03:28,911\n我們可以跟美國買相關的這些軍品那我們花的錢這麼多嘛然後什麼時候能夠正式成行我們也不知道遙遙無期啊錢也要花但是呢又沒有辦法看到成果\n\n10\n00:03:30,336 --> 00:03:51,566\n可不可以回答是委員好跟委員報告海昆圈的建造其實是按節點那目前我們的測試的確是有點有了一個落後的delay的這個情形那我們原本應該是在四月份就要海測但是我們延到六月所以這中間的確有兩個月的差遲\n\n11\n00:03:52,426 --> 00:03:57,868\n那這兩個月差池就會反映在我們現在的測試的這個節點上那這個也必須要坦誠的懷切的來面對這一個財務長我請問一下黃曙光他原來是我們國建國造的召集人他就請辭了反正丟下這樣的爛攤子請辭了那請問一下他現在召集人的工作是您在做嗎\n\n12\n00:04:17,848 --> 00:04:34,020\n這個抱怨那個黃刺蝟請辭之後那目前我想這個我們也我們還有召集人嗎不用召集了我們海軍司令部會做專案管理然後由國防部層層的督管我們共同來執行所以由海軍司令部由您來負起這個相關的工作嗎我有講的就是為什麼我們這個國艦國造海昆號這扯啊\n\n13\n00:04:39,924 --> 00:04:47,506\n我們說第一個好剛才講海澈delay現在呢交件也delay然後看到人家日本的那個人家的錢錢這麼便宜然後我們在這個過程裡面好我們的召集人說以所謂的家庭藝術\n\n14\n00:04:58,038 --> 00:05:20,892\n落跑了然後我們台船之前的董事長最重要的台船董事長鄭文龍也離開了我知道他那個時候是非自願離開啊所以就說所有前進國造的這些keyman關鍵人物一個一個離開而現在留下這些爛攤子當然我覺得你們現在責任也很重大變成你們在這邊接受我們的質詢\n\n15\n00:05:22,293 --> 00:05:30,779\n在這邊接受我們的質疑怎麼會這樣子呢到了這種地步變成所有該負責的人全部走掉了\n\n16\n00:05:32,169 --> 00:05:53,526\n該負責的人我們沒有辦法究責那到現在我們也沒有辦法看到海昆號到底什麼時候交件也都不知道然後一大堆這個什麼這個系統那個系統說沒有辦法整合過去我們也有嘛當時台船那個大午見也是一樣啊應是去交件交件之後被監察院這個審計部然後提出糾正說你們相關的IPMS系統根本沒有辦法整合\n\n17\n00:06:02,284 --> 00:06:19,357\n就是一大堆留下來這些問題可是這些錢不都是名指名高嗎所以我希望在整個的海昆號到底什麼時候能夠交件我覺得你們要有必要要跟國人做如實的報告\n\n18\n00:06:20,919 --> 00:06:40,346\n但是我也知道你們現在責任完全就責於你們也有一點那個什麼也有點就是我說該就責的人通通跑掉了這些人都不要就責當時講的天花亂墜當時做的一副瘋瘋火火現在東西交不出來人通通跑掉了錢也就花下去了還要編那麼多錢\n\n19\n00:06:47,136 --> 00:06:53,394\n所以我具體建議啊具體建議如果人家日本人可以做那麼好除非你不相信日本人嘛\n\n20\n00:06:54,520 --> 00:07:22,080\n乾脆去跟日本去買算了我們可以節省超將近兩千億耶兩千億是錢啊我們做不出來乾脆跟人家去買好了我說這話可能大家覺得說我是喪自己威風啊好像很喪氣可是問題是我們大家期待這麼多然後花了這麼多錢卻一直沒有辦法呈現在國人的眼前然後繼續給我們編織一個很很美好的夢在那裡\n\n21\n00:07:23,263 --> 00:07:42,421\n所以在這邊拜託你們所有相關事情我知道我們國防外交委員會也有舉行過秘密會議然後我們現在大家還是很關心還是要有些公開的要給國人交代有什麼樣的狀況應該如實的去跟國人報告好不好\n\n22\n00:07:43,989 --> 00:08:04,270\n我很簡單跟委員做報告那當然日本的整個潛艦的起源很早那他有他自己的自製產能跟他國內的這個供應鏈所以他的很多的條件是的確是價錢是非常低但是受限於我們的一個環境上這個狀況下面而且日本對我們輸出的這個許可也有可能有些問題\n\n23\n00:08:05,171 --> 00:08:17,248\n那潛艦雖然換了目前我們按照這個現在的步調在走那我們有信心可以完成潛艦的建造那整個專案不會因為一個人離開了位置的產生影響我們會繼續努力謝謝委員知道好拜託加油了好謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3083\t30664\t好 谢谢主席 请我们杨次长以及海军参谋长请杨次长 海军参谋长王委员好好 次长好 参谋长好我们今天主要是海昆号的一个专案报告我想请问 再次确定一下11月交件会不会延后 会不会跳票\n32728\t56650\t報告這個跟委員報告目前海昆號遇到的這個問題是在技術上我們沒有問題但是我們在檢測上我又有時間關係11月能夠如期交界嗎我們朝這個方向去努力能不能因為現在時間已經差一個多月而已因為你們好幾次都是說11月是目標那11月會不會跳票\n58668\t60909\t委員好 已經參謀長報告那的確我們當初在測試的整個規劃上面上是有點樂觀那現在是面臨比較大的挑戰好 現在看起來就是沒有辦法如期交件好 所以次長啊 還有那個參謀長\n74758\t89748\t我們其實等待海昆號已經等待非常久了那相關的海側的時間跳票現在交件的時間也跳票但是與此同時我們也看到日本最近下海的蒼金號\n91989\t95912\t好 下海然後它的相關的造價呢也有媒體這樣披露所以讓我們很多民眾非常崩潰也就是我們造價超過500億的我們的海昆號左等右等錢也是你們在花的\n111702\t125092\t話也是你們在講的說什麼時候一定會如期的進行海策如期的交建但是現在呢看起來都是自欺欺人我不曉得要延後到什麼時候所以我想請問一下就是讓民眾非常崩潰的事情就是為什麼同樣的日本一條一條的潛艦在下水而它的造價比我們低那麼多\n139269\t142953\t如果按照這樣的說 看我們的造價相差這麼多的一個狀況之下請問一下 未來我們的國建國造可不可以把轉為我們跟日本來買 讓日本賣給我們我這樣算一下 我們未來有7條的前件你們編了2800多億\n161972\t190862\t那如果我們跟日本買的話立刻可以減少六成以上至少我們納稅人的錢可以少很多所以想請問一下我們現在計畫要繼續花這麼多的錢嗎他們已經是造到大驚奇的第六騷然後他的價格已經可以降低到不到145億那為什麼我們還是要維持這麼高的一個價格可不可以跟日本去買\n192369\t208911\t我們可以跟美國買相關的這些軍品那我們花的錢這麼多嘛然後什麼時候能夠正式成行我們也不知道遙遙無期啊錢也要花但是呢又沒有辦法看到成果\n210336\t231566\t可不可以回答是委員好跟委員報告海昆圈的建造其實是按節點那目前我們的測試的確是有點有了一個落後的delay的這個情形那我們原本應該是在四月份就要海測但是我們延到六月所以這中間的確有兩個月的差遲\n232426\t237868\t那這兩個月差池就會反映在我們現在的測試的這個節點上那這個也必須要坦誠的 懷切的來面對這一個財務長我請問一下黃曙光他原來是我們國建國造的召集人他就請辭了反正丟下這樣的爛攤子請辭了那請問一下他現在召集人的工作是您在做嗎\n257848\t274020\t這個抱怨 那個黃刺蝟請辭之後 那目前我想這個我們也我們還有召集人嗎 不用召集了我們海軍司令部會做專案管理 然後由國防部層層的督管 我們共同來執行所以由海軍司令部由您來負起這個相關的工作嗎我有講的就是為什麼我們這個國艦國造海昆號這扯啊\n279924\t287506\t我們說第一個好剛才講海澈delay現在呢交件也delay然後看到人家日本的那個人家的錢錢這麼便宜然後我們在這個過程裡面好我們的召集人說以所謂的家庭藝術\n298038\t320892\t落跑了然後我們台船之前的董事長最重要的台船董事長鄭文龍也離開了我知道他那個時候是非自願離開啊所以就說所有前進國造的這些key man關鍵人物一個一個離開而現在留下這些爛攤子當然我覺得你們現在責任也很重大變成你們在這邊接受我們的質詢\n322293\t330779\t在這邊接受我們的質疑怎麼會這樣子呢到了這種地步變成所有該負責的人全部走掉了\n332169\t353526\t該負責的人我們沒有辦法究責那到現在我們也沒有辦法看到海昆號到底什麼時候交件也都不知道然後一大堆這個什麼這個系統那個系統說沒有辦法整合過去我們也有嘛當時台船那個大午見也是一樣啊應是去交件交件之後被監察院這個審計部然後提出糾正說你們相關的IPMS系統根本沒有辦法整合\n362284\t379357\t就是一大堆留下來這些問題可是這些錢不都是名指名高嗎所以我希望在整個的海昆號到底什麼時候能夠交件我覺得你們要有必要要跟國人做如實的報告\n380919\t400346\t但是我也知道你們現在責任完全就責於你們也有一點那個什麼也有點就是我說該就責的人通通跑掉了這些人都不要就責當時講的天花亂墜當時做的一副瘋瘋火火現在東西交不出來人通通跑掉了錢也就花下去了還要編那麼多錢\n407136\t413394\t所以我具體建議啊 具體建議如果人家日本人可以做那麼好除非你不相信日本人嘛\n414520\t442080\t乾脆去跟日本去買算了我們可以節省超將近兩千億耶兩千億是錢啊我們做不出來乾脆跟人家去買好了我說這話可能大家覺得說我是喪自己威風啊好像很喪氣可是問題是我們大家期待這麼多然後花了這麼多錢卻一直沒有辦法呈現在國人的眼前然後繼續給我們編織一個很很美好的夢在那裡\n443263\t462421\t所以在這邊拜託你們所有相關事情我知道我們國防外交委員會也有舉行過秘密會議然後我們現在大家還是很關心還是要有些公開的要給國人交代有什麼樣的狀況應該如實的去跟國人報告好不好\n463989\t484270\t我很簡單跟委員做報告那當然日本的整個潛艦的起源很早那他有他自己的自製產能跟他國內的這個供應鏈所以他的很多的條件是的確是價錢是非常低但是受限於我們的一個環境上這個狀況下面而且日本對我們輸出的這個許可也有可能有些問題\n485171\t497248\t那潛艦雖然換了目前我們按照這個現在的步調在走那我們有信心可以完成潛艦的建造那整個專案不會因為一個人離開了位置的產生影響我們會繼續努力謝謝委員知道好 拜託加油了好 謝謝委員\n","txt":"好 谢谢主席 请我们杨次长以及海军参谋长请杨次长 海军参谋长王委员好好 次长好 参谋长好我们今天主要是海昆号的一个专案报告我想请问 再次确定一下11月交件会不会延后 会不会跳票\n報告這個跟委員報告目前海昆號遇到的這個問題是在技術上我們沒有問題但是我們在檢測上我又有時間關係11月能夠如期交界嗎我們朝這個方向去努力能不能因為現在時間已經差一個多月而已因為你們好幾次都是說11月是目標那11月會不會跳票\n委員好 已經參謀長報告那的確我們當初在測試的整個規劃上面上是有點樂觀那現在是面臨比較大的挑戰好 現在看起來就是沒有辦法如期交件好 所以次長啊 還有那個參謀長\n我們其實等待海昆號已經等待非常久了那相關的海側的時間跳票現在交件的時間也跳票但是與此同時我們也看到日本最近下海的蒼金號\n好 下海然後它的相關的造價呢也有媒體這樣披露所以讓我們很多民眾非常崩潰也就是我們造價超過500億的我們的海昆號左等右等錢也是你們在花的\n話也是你們在講的說什麼時候一定會如期的進行海策如期的交建但是現在呢看起來都是自欺欺人我不曉得要延後到什麼時候所以我想請問一下就是讓民眾非常崩潰的事情就是為什麼同樣的日本一條一條的潛艦在下水而它的造價比我們低那麼多\n如果按照這樣的說 看我們的造價相差這麼多的一個狀況之下請問一下 未來我們的國建國造可不可以把轉為我們跟日本來買 讓日本賣給我們我這樣算一下 我們未來有7條的前件你們編了2800多億\n那如果我們跟日本買的話立刻可以減少六成以上至少我們納稅人的錢可以少很多所以想請問一下我們現在計畫要繼續花這麼多的錢嗎他們已經是造到大驚奇的第六騷然後他的價格已經可以降低到不到145億那為什麼我們還是要維持這麼高的一個價格可不可以跟日本去買\n我們可以跟美國買相關的這些軍品那我們花的錢這麼多嘛然後什麼時候能夠正式成行我們也不知道遙遙無期啊錢也要花但是呢又沒有辦法看到成果\n可不可以回答是委員好跟委員報告海昆圈的建造其實是按節點那目前我們的測試的確是有點有了一個落後的delay的這個情形那我們原本應該是在四月份就要海測但是我們延到六月所以這中間的確有兩個月的差遲\n那這兩個月差池就會反映在我們現在的測試的這個節點上那這個也必須要坦誠的 懷切的來面對這一個財務長我請問一下黃曙光他原來是我們國建國造的召集人他就請辭了反正丟下這樣的爛攤子請辭了那請問一下他現在召集人的工作是您在做嗎\n這個抱怨 那個黃刺蝟請辭之後 那目前我想這個我們也我們還有召集人嗎 不用召集了我們海軍司令部會做專案管理 然後由國防部層層的督管 我們共同來執行所以由海軍司令部由您來負起這個相關的工作嗎我有講的就是為什麼我們這個國艦國造海昆號這扯啊\n我們說第一個好剛才講海澈delay現在呢交件也delay然後看到人家日本的那個人家的錢錢這麼便宜然後我們在這個過程裡面好我們的召集人說以所謂的家庭藝術\n落跑了然後我們台船之前的董事長最重要的台船董事長鄭文龍也離開了我知道他那個時候是非自願離開啊所以就說所有前進國造的這些key man關鍵人物一個一個離開而現在留下這些爛攤子當然我覺得你們現在責任也很重大變成你們在這邊接受我們的質詢\n在這邊接受我們的質疑怎麼會這樣子呢到了這種地步變成所有該負責的人全部走掉了\n該負責的人我們沒有辦法究責那到現在我們也沒有辦法看到海昆號到底什麼時候交件也都不知道然後一大堆這個什麼這個系統那個系統說沒有辦法整合過去我們也有嘛當時台船那個大午見也是一樣啊應是去交件交件之後被監察院這個審計部然後提出糾正說你們相關的IPMS系統根本沒有辦法整合\n就是一大堆留下來這些問題可是這些錢不都是名指名高嗎所以我希望在整個的海昆號到底什麼時候能夠交件我覺得你們要有必要要跟國人做如實的報告\n但是我也知道你們現在責任完全就責於你們也有一點那個什麼也有點就是我說該就責的人通通跑掉了這些人都不要就責當時講的天花亂墜當時做的一副瘋瘋火火現在東西交不出來人通通跑掉了錢也就花下去了還要編那麼多錢\n所以我具體建議啊 具體建議如果人家日本人可以做那麼好除非你不相信日本人嘛\n乾脆去跟日本去買算了我們可以節省超將近兩千億耶兩千億是錢啊我們做不出來乾脆跟人家去買好了我說這話可能大家覺得說我是喪自己威風啊好像很喪氣可是問題是我們大家期待這麼多然後花了這麼多錢卻一直沒有辦法呈現在國人的眼前然後繼續給我們編織一個很很美好的夢在那裡\n所以在這邊拜託你們所有相關事情我知道我們國防外交委員會也有舉行過秘密會議然後我們現在大家還是很關心還是要有些公開的要給國人交代有什麼樣的狀況應該如實的去跟國人報告好不好\n我很簡單跟委員做報告那當然日本的整個潛艦的起源很早那他有他自己的自製產能跟他國內的這個供應鏈所以他的很多的條件是的確是價錢是非常低但是受限於我們的一個環境上這個狀況下面而且日本對我們輸出的這個許可也有可能有些問題\n那潛艦雖然換了目前我們按照這個現在的步調在走那我們有信心可以完成潛艦的建造那整個專案不會因為一個人離開了位置的產生影響我們會繼續努力謝謝委員知道好 拜託加油了好 謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.083 --> 00:30.664\n好谢谢主席请我们杨次长以及海军参谋长请杨次长海军参谋长王委员好好次长好参谋长好我们今天主要是海昆号的一个专案报告我想请问再次确定一下11月交件会不会延后会不会跳票\n\n00:32.728 --> 00:56.650\n報告這個跟委員報告目前海昆號遇到的這個問題是在技術上我們沒有問題但是我們在檢測上我又有時間關係11月能夠如期交界嗎我們朝這個方向去努力能不能因為現在時間已經差一個多月而已因為你們好幾次都是說11月是目標那11月會不會跳票\n\n00:58.668 --> 01:00.909\n委員好已經參謀長報告那的確我們當初在測試的整個規劃上面上是有點樂觀那現在是面臨比較大的挑戰好現在看起來就是沒有辦法如期交件好所以次長啊還有那個參謀長\n\n01:14.758 --> 01:29.748\n我們其實等待海昆號已經等待非常久了那相關的海側的時間跳票現在交件的時間也跳票但是與此同時我們也看到日本最近下海的蒼金號\n\n01:31.989 --> 01:35.912\n好下海然後它的相關的造價呢也有媒體這樣披露所以讓我們很多民眾非常崩潰也就是我們造價超過500億的我們的海昆號左等右等錢也是你們在花的\n\n01:51.702 --> 02:05.092\n話也是你們在講的說什麼時候一定會如期的進行海策如期的交建但是現在呢看起來都是自欺欺人我不曉得要延後到什麼時候所以我想請問一下就是讓民眾非常崩潰的事情就是為什麼同樣的日本一條一條的潛艦在下水而它的造價比我們低那麼多\n\n02:19.269 --> 02:22.953\n如果按照這樣的說看我們的造價相差這麼多的一個狀況之下請問一下未來我們的國建國造可不可以把轉為我們跟日本來買讓日本賣給我們我這樣算一下我們未來有7條的前件你們編了2800多億\n\n02:41.972 --> 03:10.862\n那如果我們跟日本買的話立刻可以減少六成以上至少我們納稅人的錢可以少很多所以想請問一下我們現在計畫要繼續花這麼多的錢嗎他們已經是造到大驚奇的第六騷然後他的價格已經可以降低到不到145億那為什麼我們還是要維持這麼高的一個價格可不可以跟日本去買\n\n03:12.369 --> 03:28.911\n我們可以跟美國買相關的這些軍品那我們花的錢這麼多嘛然後什麼時候能夠正式成行我們也不知道遙遙無期啊錢也要花但是呢又沒有辦法看到成果\n\n03:30.336 --> 03:51.566\n可不可以回答是委員好跟委員報告海昆圈的建造其實是按節點那目前我們的測試的確是有點有了一個落後的delay的這個情形那我們原本應該是在四月份就要海測但是我們延到六月所以這中間的確有兩個月的差遲\n\n03:52.426 --> 03:57.868\n那這兩個月差池就會反映在我們現在的測試的這個節點上那這個也必須要坦誠的懷切的來面對這一個財務長我請問一下黃曙光他原來是我們國建國造的召集人他就請辭了反正丟下這樣的爛攤子請辭了那請問一下他現在召集人的工作是您在做嗎\n\n04:17.848 --> 04:34.020\n這個抱怨那個黃刺蝟請辭之後那目前我想這個我們也我們還有召集人嗎不用召集了我們海軍司令部會做專案管理然後由國防部層層的督管我們共同來執行所以由海軍司令部由您來負起這個相關的工作嗎我有講的就是為什麼我們這個國艦國造海昆號這扯啊\n\n04:39.924 --> 04:47.506\n我們說第一個好剛才講海澈delay現在呢交件也delay然後看到人家日本的那個人家的錢錢這麼便宜然後我們在這個過程裡面好我們的召集人說以所謂的家庭藝術\n\n04:58.038 --> 05:20.892\n落跑了然後我們台船之前的董事長最重要的台船董事長鄭文龍也離開了我知道他那個時候是非自願離開啊所以就說所有前進國造的這些keyman關鍵人物一個一個離開而現在留下這些爛攤子當然我覺得你們現在責任也很重大變成你們在這邊接受我們的質詢\n\n05:22.293 --> 05:30.779\n在這邊接受我們的質疑怎麼會這樣子呢到了這種地步變成所有該負責的人全部走掉了\n\n05:32.169 --> 05:53.526\n該負責的人我們沒有辦法究責那到現在我們也沒有辦法看到海昆號到底什麼時候交件也都不知道然後一大堆這個什麼這個系統那個系統說沒有辦法整合過去我們也有嘛當時台船那個大午見也是一樣啊應是去交件交件之後被監察院這個審計部然後提出糾正說你們相關的IPMS系統根本沒有辦法整合\n\n06:02.284 --> 06:19.357\n就是一大堆留下來這些問題可是這些錢不都是名指名高嗎所以我希望在整個的海昆號到底什麼時候能夠交件我覺得你們要有必要要跟國人做如實的報告\n\n06:20.919 --> 06:40.346\n但是我也知道你們現在責任完全就責於你們也有一點那個什麼也有點就是我說該就責的人通通跑掉了這些人都不要就責當時講的天花亂墜當時做的一副瘋瘋火火現在東西交不出來人通通跑掉了錢也就花下去了還要編那麼多錢\n\n06:47.136 --> 06:53.394\n所以我具體建議啊具體建議如果人家日本人可以做那麼好除非你不相信日本人嘛\n\n06:54.520 --> 07:22.080\n乾脆去跟日本去買算了我們可以節省超將近兩千億耶兩千億是錢啊我們做不出來乾脆跟人家去買好了我說這話可能大家覺得說我是喪自己威風啊好像很喪氣可是問題是我們大家期待這麼多然後花了這麼多錢卻一直沒有辦法呈現在國人的眼前然後繼續給我們編織一個很很美好的夢在那裡\n\n07:23.263 --> 07:42.421\n所以在這邊拜託你們所有相關事情我知道我們國防外交委員會也有舉行過秘密會議然後我們現在大家還是很關心還是要有些公開的要給國人交代有什麼樣的狀況應該如實的去跟國人報告好不好\n\n07:43.989 --> 08:04.270\n我很簡單跟委員做報告那當然日本的整個潛艦的起源很早那他有他自己的自製產能跟他國內的這個供應鏈所以他的很多的條件是的確是價錢是非常低但是受限於我們的一個環境上這個狀況下面而且日本對我們輸出的這個許可也有可能有些問題\n\n08:05.171 --> 08:17.248\n那潛艦雖然換了目前我們按照這個現在的步調在走那我們有信心可以完成潛艦的建造那整個專案不會因為一個人離開了位置的產生影響我們會繼續努力謝謝委員知道好拜託加油了好謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.083,"end":30.664,"text":"好 谢谢主席 请我们杨次长以及海军参谋长请杨次长 海军参谋长王委员好好 次长好 参谋长好我们今天主要是海昆号的一个专案报告我想请问 再次确定一下11月交件会不会延后 会不会跳票"},{"start":32.728,"end":56.65,"text":"報告這個跟委員報告目前海昆號遇到的這個問題是在技術上我們沒有問題但是我們在檢測上我又有時間關係11月能夠如期交界嗎我們朝這個方向去努力能不能因為現在時間已經差一個多月而已因為你們好幾次都是說11月是目標那11月會不會跳票"},{"start":58.668,"end":60.909,"text":"委員好 已經參謀長報告那的確我們當初在測試的整個規劃上面上是有點樂觀那現在是面臨比較大的挑戰好 現在看起來就是沒有辦法如期交件好 所以次長啊 還有那個參謀長"},{"start":74.758,"end":89.748,"text":"我們其實等待海昆號已經等待非常久了那相關的海側的時間跳票現在交件的時間也跳票但是與此同時我們也看到日本最近下海的蒼金號"},{"start":91.989,"end":95.912,"text":"好 下海然後它的相關的造價呢也有媒體這樣披露所以讓我們很多民眾非常崩潰也就是我們造價超過500億的我們的海昆號左等右等錢也是你們在花的"},{"start":111.702,"end":125.092,"text":"話也是你們在講的說什麼時候一定會如期的進行海策如期的交建但是現在呢看起來都是自欺欺人我不曉得要延後到什麼時候所以我想請問一下就是讓民眾非常崩潰的事情就是為什麼同樣的日本一條一條的潛艦在下水而它的造價比我們低那麼多"},{"start":139.269,"end":142.953,"text":"如果按照這樣的說 看我們的造價相差這麼多的一個狀況之下請問一下 未來我們的國建國造可不可以把轉為我們跟日本來買 讓日本賣給我們我這樣算一下 我們未來有7條的前件你們編了2800多億"},{"start":161.972,"end":190.862,"text":"那如果我們跟日本買的話立刻可以減少六成以上至少我們納稅人的錢可以少很多所以想請問一下我們現在計畫要繼續花這麼多的錢嗎他們已經是造到大驚奇的第六騷然後他的價格已經可以降低到不到145億那為什麼我們還是要維持這麼高的一個價格可不可以跟日本去買"},{"start":192.369,"end":208.911,"text":"我們可以跟美國買相關的這些軍品那我們花的錢這麼多嘛然後什麼時候能夠正式成行我們也不知道遙遙無期啊錢也要花但是呢又沒有辦法看到成果"},{"start":210.336,"end":231.566,"text":"可不可以回答是委員好跟委員報告海昆圈的建造其實是按節點那目前我們的測試的確是有點有了一個落後的delay的這個情形那我們原本應該是在四月份就要海測但是我們延到六月所以這中間的確有兩個月的差遲"},{"start":232.426,"end":237.868,"text":"那這兩個月差池就會反映在我們現在的測試的這個節點上那這個也必須要坦誠的 懷切的來面對這一個財務長我請問一下黃曙光他原來是我們國建國造的召集人他就請辭了反正丟下這樣的爛攤子請辭了那請問一下他現在召集人的工作是您在做嗎"},{"start":257.848,"end":274.02,"text":"這個抱怨 那個黃刺蝟請辭之後 那目前我想這個我們也我們還有召集人嗎 不用召集了我們海軍司令部會做專案管理 然後由國防部層層的督管 我們共同來執行所以由海軍司令部由您來負起這個相關的工作嗎我有講的就是為什麼我們這個國艦國造海昆號這扯啊"},{"start":279.924,"end":287.506,"text":"我們說第一個好剛才講海澈delay現在呢交件也delay然後看到人家日本的那個人家的錢錢這麼便宜然後我們在這個過程裡面好我們的召集人說以所謂的家庭藝術"},{"start":298.038,"end":320.892,"text":"落跑了然後我們台船之前的董事長最重要的台船董事長鄭文龍也離開了我知道他那個時候是非自願離開啊所以就說所有前進國造的這些key man關鍵人物一個一個離開而現在留下這些爛攤子當然我覺得你們現在責任也很重大變成你們在這邊接受我們的質詢"},{"start":322.293,"end":330.779,"text":"在這邊接受我們的質疑怎麼會這樣子呢到了這種地步變成所有該負責的人全部走掉了"},{"start":332.169,"end":353.526,"text":"該負責的人我們沒有辦法究責那到現在我們也沒有辦法看到海昆號到底什麼時候交件也都不知道然後一大堆這個什麼這個系統那個系統說沒有辦法整合過去我們也有嘛當時台船那個大午見也是一樣啊應是去交件交件之後被監察院這個審計部然後提出糾正說你們相關的IPMS系統根本沒有辦法整合"},{"start":362.284,"end":379.357,"text":"就是一大堆留下來這些問題可是這些錢不都是名指名高嗎所以我希望在整個的海昆號到底什麼時候能夠交件我覺得你們要有必要要跟國人做如實的報告"},{"start":380.919,"end":400.346,"text":"但是我也知道你們現在責任完全就責於你們也有一點那個什麼也有點就是我說該就責的人通通跑掉了這些人都不要就責當時講的天花亂墜當時做的一副瘋瘋火火現在東西交不出來人通通跑掉了錢也就花下去了還要編那麼多錢"},{"start":407.136,"end":413.394,"text":"所以我具體建議啊 具體建議如果人家日本人可以做那麼好除非你不相信日本人嘛"},{"start":414.52,"end":442.08,"text":"乾脆去跟日本去買算了我們可以節省超將近兩千億耶兩千億是錢啊我們做不出來乾脆跟人家去買好了我說這話可能大家覺得說我是喪自己威風啊好像很喪氣可是問題是我們大家期待這麼多然後花了這麼多錢卻一直沒有辦法呈現在國人的眼前然後繼續給我們編織一個很很美好的夢在那裡"},{"start":443.263,"end":462.421,"text":"所以在這邊拜託你們所有相關事情我知道我們國防外交委員會也有舉行過秘密會議然後我們現在大家還是很關心還是要有些公開的要給國人交代有什麼樣的狀況應該如實的去跟國人報告好不好"},{"start":463.989,"end":484.27,"text":"我很簡單跟委員做報告那當然日本的整個潛艦的起源很早那他有他自己的自製產能跟他國內的這個供應鏈所以他的很多的條件是的確是價錢是非常低但是受限於我們的一個環境上這個狀況下面而且日本對我們輸出的這個許可也有可能有些問題"},{"start":485.171,"end":497.248,"text":"那潛艦雖然換了目前我們按照這個現在的步調在走那我們有信心可以完成潛艦的建造那整個專案不會因為一個人離開了位置的產生影響我們會繼續努力謝謝委員知道好 拜託加油了好 謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":559,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時12分）謝謝主席，請楊次長及海軍參謀長。"],["主席：請楊次長、海軍參謀長。"],["楊次長基榮：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：次長好，參謀長好。今天主要是海鯤號的專案報告，我想再次確定一下11月交艦會不會延後？會不會跳票？"],["楊次長基榮：跟委員報告，目前海鯤號在技術上我們沒有問題，但是我們在檢測上面……"],["王委員鴻薇：我因為時間關係，請問11月能夠如期交艦嗎？"],["楊次長基榮：我們朝這個方向去努力，但是目前……"],["王委員鴻薇：能不能？因為現在時間已經差一個多月而已了，而你們好幾次都說11月是目標，那11月會不會跳票？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：委員好。海軍參謀長報告，的確我們當初在測試的整個規劃上面是有點樂觀，現在是面臨比較大的挑戰，但是……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，現在看起來就是沒有辦法如期交艦。次長還有參謀長，我們其實等待海鯤號已經等待非常久了，相關的海測的時間跳票，現在交艦的時間也跳票。但與此同時我們也看到日本最近下海的蒼鯨號，它的相關造價也有媒體披露，所以讓我們很多民眾非常崩潰。我們造價超過五百億的海鯤號左等右等，錢也是你們在花的、話也是你們在講的，說什麼時候一定會如期進行海測、如期交艦，但是現在看起來都是自欺欺人，我不曉得要延後到什麼時候。","所以我想請問一下，讓民眾非常崩潰的事情就是，為什麼同樣地日本一條一條潛艦在下水，而它的造價比我們低那麼多？如果按照這樣看，我們的造價相差這麼多的一個狀況之下，請問未來我們的國艦國造可不可以把它轉為跟日本買，讓日本賣給我們？我這樣算一下，我們未來有7條潛艦，你們編了兩千八百多億，如果我們跟日本買的話，立刻可以減少六成以上，至少我們納稅人的錢可以少花很多。所以想請問一下，我們現在的計畫要繼續花這麼多錢嗎？他們已經造到大鯨級的第6艘，然後它的價格已經可以降低到不到145億，那為什麼我們還是要維持這麼高的價格？可不可以跟日本買？我們可以跟美國買相關的這些軍品，我們花的錢這麼多嘛！然後什麼時候能夠正式成行我們也不知道，遙遙無期！錢也要花，但是又沒有辦法看到成果。可不可以回答？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：委員好。跟委員報告，海鯤艦的建造其實是按節點，目前我們的測試的確是有了落後、delay的情形，原本應該是在4月分就要海測，但我們延到6月，所以這中間的確有兩個月的差值。這兩個月的差值就會反映在我們現在測試的節點上，這個也必須要坦誠、剴切地面對。"],["王委員鴻薇：參謀長，我請問一下，黃曙光原來是我們國艦國造的召集人，他就請辭了，反正丟下這樣的爛攤子請辭了，那請問一下現在召集人的工作是您在做嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，黃諮委請辭之後，目前我們也……"],["王委員鴻薇：我們還有召集人嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：沒有召集人……"],["王委員鴻薇：不用召集了？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：現在我們海軍司令部會專案管理，然後由國防部層層督管，我們共同來執行。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以由海軍司令部、由您來負起這個相關的工作嗎？我要講的就是，我們這個國艦國造的海鯤號之扯，第一個，剛才講海測delay，現在交艦也delay，然後看到人家日本的潛艦這麼便宜，而在這個過程裡面，我們的召集人以所謂的家庭因素落跑了；台船之前的董事長、最重要的台船董事長鄭文隆也離開了，我知道他那個時候是非自願離開。所以就是所有潛艦國造的這些關鍵人物（key man）一個一個離開，而現在留下這些爛攤子。當然我覺得你們現在的責任也很重大，變成你們在這邊接受我們的質詢、在這邊接受我們的質疑，怎麼會這樣子呢？到了這種地步，變成所有該負責的人全部走掉了！該負責的人我們沒有辦法究責，到現在我們也沒有辦法看到海鯤號，到底什麼時候交艦也都不知道，然後一大堆什麼的這個系統、那個系統說沒有辦法整合，過去我們也有嘛！當時台船那個大武艦也是一樣，硬是去交艦，交艦之後，被監察院審計部提出糾正，說你們相關的IPMS系統根本沒有辦法整合，就是一大堆、留下這些問題，可是這些錢不都是民脂民膏嗎？","所以我希望，整個海鯤號到底什麼時候能夠交艦，我覺得你們有必要跟國人如實報告。但是我也知道，現在責任上完全究責於你們也有一點……就是我說該究責的人通通跑掉了，這些人都不要究責耶！當時講得天花亂墜，當時做得一副風風火火，現在東西交不出來，人通通跑掉了，錢也花下去了，還要編那麼多錢！所以我具體建議，如果人家日本人可以做得那麼好，除非你不相信日本人，乾脆去跟日本買算了，我們可以節省將近兩千億的錢哪！我們做不出來，乾脆跟人家去買好了，我說這個話，可能大家覺得說我是喪自己威風，好像很喪氣，可是問題是我們大家期待這麼多，花了這麼多錢，卻一直沒有辦法呈現在國人的眼前，然後繼續給我們編織一個很美好的夢在那裡。","所以在這邊拜託你們，所有相關的事情，我知道我們外交及國防委員會也舉行過秘密會議，然後現在大家還是很關心，有些公開的還是要給國人交代，有什麼樣的狀況應該如實跟國人報告，好不好？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是，我很簡單跟委員報告，當然日本整個潛艦的起源很早，他有自己的自製產能跟國內的供應鏈，所以他在很多條件上的確是價錢非常低，但受限於我們環境的狀況，而且日本對我們輸出的許可也可能有些問題，而潛艦雖然換了……我們按照現在的步調在走，我們有信心可以完成潛艦的建造，整個專案不會因為一個人離開了位置而產生影響，我們會繼續努力，謝謝委員指導。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，拜託加油了。"],["楊次長基榮：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱、鍾佳濱委員不在。","請林憶君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":208,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-6","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","徐巧芯","陳俊宇","林楚茵","陳冠廷","賴士葆","王鴻薇","林憶君","王定宇","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148501_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「潛艦國造原型艦海測執行現況及因應作為」，併請台灣國際造船股\n份有限公司董事長列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148501_00006"}}}