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{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 205.836, \"end\": 205.956, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 205.956, \"end\": 206.117, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 206.117, \"end\": 206.337, \"score\": 0.711}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 206.337, \"end\": 206.517, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 206.517, \"end\": 206.677, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 206.677, \"end\": 206.898, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 206.898, \"end\": 207.158, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"撤\", \"start\": 207.158, \"end\": 207.498, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 207.498, \"end\": 207.699, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 207.699, \"end\": 209.701, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 209.701, \"end\": 209.961, \"score\": 0.602}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 209.961, \"end\": 210.162, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 210.162, \"end\": 210.242, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"拔\", \"start\": 210.242, \"end\": 210.362, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 210.362, \"end\": 210.522, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 210.522, \"end\": 210.682, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 210.682, \"end\": 210.782, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 210.782, \"end\": 210.923, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 210.923, \"end\": 211.063, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 211.063, \"end\": 211.083, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 211.083, \"end\": 211.103, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 212.41, \"end\": 221.294, \"text\": \"各位委員報告所有的測試都有缺點在缺點不影響我們海上航行安全的話我們都會先執行測試讓我們所有的測試都經過聯測之後發覺問題我們趕快去解決他的問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 212.41, \"end\": 212.59, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 212.59, \"end\": 212.75, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"委\", 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\"響\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 217.352, \"end\": 217.512, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 217.512, \"end\": 217.772, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 217.772, \"end\": 217.993, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"航\", \"start\": 217.993, \"end\": 218.253, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 218.253, \"end\": 218.413, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 218.413, \"end\": 218.613, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 218.613, \"end\": 218.813, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 218.813, \"end\": 218.993, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 218.993, \"end\": 219.113, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 219.113, \"end\": 219.333, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 219.333, \"end\": 219.753, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 219.753, \"end\": 219.893, \"score\": 0.94}, 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221.094, \"end\": 221.214, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 221.214, \"end\": 221.234, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 221.234, \"end\": 221.274, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 221.274, \"end\": 221.294, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 227.153, \"end\": 242.66, \"text\": \"所以海昆澳到底有沒有符合可以出海的條件呢到底是不是真的安全無虞呢現在依照國防部報告的整個內容我看IPMS跟主機與電力管理的整個系統無論問題的大小現在幾乎都還沒有被變出海對吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 227.153, \"end\": 227.253, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 227.253, \"end\": 227.333, \"score\": 0.307}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 227.333, \"end\": 227.493, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"昆\", \"start\": 227.493, \"end\": 227.673, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"澳\", \"start\": 227.673, \"end\": 227.833, \"score\": 0.664}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 227.833, \"end\": 228.053, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 228.053, \"end\": 228.194, \"score\": 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\"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 536.257, \"end\": 536.377, \"score\": 0.612}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 536.377, \"end\": 536.858, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 536.858, \"end\": 537.159, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 537.159, \"end\": 537.56, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 537.56, \"end\": 538.181, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 538.181, \"end\": 538.462, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 538.462, \"end\": 539.564, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"潛\"}, {\"word\": \"航\", \"start\": 539.564, \"end\": 540.246, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 540.246, \"end\": 540.607, \"score\": 0.685}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 540.607, \"end\": 541.148, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 541.148, \"end\": 541.369, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"深\", \"start\": 541.369, \"end\": 541.629, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 541.629, \"end\": 542.11, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"潛\"}, {\"word\": \"航\", \"start\": 542.11, \"end\": 542.391, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 542.391, \"end\": 542.511, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 542.511, \"end\": 542.551, \"score\": 0.35}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 542.551, \"end\": 542.571, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 545.175, \"end\": 566.027, \"text\": \"潛艦最大的設計就是下潛的深度一般來說這個是機密的啦但是不代表不用測試如果不做最大的深潛的測試的話海軍就沒有辦法知道在極端的環境下會遇到什麼問題甚至能不能下潛到最大的設計深度我想請教一下就是海空號會做到最大的深潛的測試\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"潛\"}, {\"word\": \"艦\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 545.175, \"end\": 545.315, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 545.315, \"end\": 545.475, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 545.475, \"end\": 545.676, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", 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\"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 612.797, \"end\": 613.639, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 613.639, \"end\": 613.659, \"score\": 0.046}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,954 --> 00:00:07,083\n謝謝主席有請執行官請副總長還有參謀長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:13,955 --> 00:00:19,137\n你好首先我先針對今天送來的書面報告的內容我本行收到報告的時候覺得看起來是很熟悉就請助理用電腦AI比對海軍在10月13號發出的新聞稿內容結果顯示裡面的內容75%以上跟海軍10月13號發布的新聞稿的內容是一模一樣的除了第一頁的摘要報告外其餘的內容都幾乎雷同想請國防部到立法院來做專案報告的時候\n\n3\n00:00:43,607 --> 00:01:07,979\n要認真的面對不要拿舊的新聞稿直接改標題這樣的話我覺得這樣是有點企圖敷衍我們國會立委啦所以未來請改進報告委員不敢敷衍啦只是這個會議是公開會議所以我們基本上來講是以能公開能揭露的資訊來做這個報告那委員如果對這個報告內容有所建言的話我們回去也會進行改進\n\n4\n00:01:09,424 --> 00:01:28,141\n接下來我進入正題國造潛艦海空號其實現在是全台灣的人民甚至全世界高度關注的國防自主但是看來海空號在9月底完成海撤的目標已經跳票了所以按照這個進度你覺得11月交艦的目標還有機會完成嗎這部分我請海軍參謀長跟您做詳細的答覆\n\n5\n00:01:34,685 --> 00:02:01,979\n委員好鮑委員我們的建造是按照節點但是我們的測試的確因為測試的衍生工程面的一個部分我們需要去解決的問題那的確是有兩個月的delay所以我們在11月份要達成這個測試然後這會比較的挑戰所以有可能我們這個整個測試的期程會往後所以看來應該不可能完成了嘛但是我們目前也是儘快能夠達到這個潛航準備的時候我們就會出去做後續的測試\n\n6\n00:02:03,531 --> 00:02:16,691\n那我再請教一下海空號的港測的項目是不是一定要全部做完才能夠滿足整個出海的條件呢還是說可以跳過有些部分的測試項目就可以先進行海測呢\n\n7\n00:02:18,342 --> 00:02:41,058\n報議員我們整個的測試它有一定的測試程序書那我們整個從港測到海測中間我們都經過技協跟專業的建造還有這個廠方我們會來完整訂定整個測試的期程所以它是按照一個測試的期程跟建造的規範書我們把測試的這個次序訂出來之後按照這樣來做推動\n\n8\n00:02:41,738 --> 00:02:54,686\n所以港測的項目是幾乎全部都有完成嗎是只有部分可能需要不影響實際上操作的那其他都還有解決方案的所以剛才我的意思就是說所以還是有跳過部分測試的項目嗎對不對\n\n9\n00:02:57,128 --> 00:03:13,161\n有些的部分它就像IPMS可能當初就有幾個測像是需要但是它不影響實際的操作那我們也是在審核了整個安全機制沒有問題然後這些也必須要能夠先去做必要的測試能夠發掘問題才能夠解決問題\n\n10\n00:03:15,143 --> 00:03:31,103\n所以現在的意思就是說其實海昆號的港車其實都還沒有完全的做完但是海軍覺得安全無虞所以為了趕時間就先出海然後做部分的海撤項目對不對我請那個海拔中心主任解釋一下\n\n11\n00:03:32,410 --> 00:03:41,294\n各位委員報告所有的測試都有缺點在缺點不影響我們海上航行安全的話我們都會先執行測試讓我們所有的測試都經過聯測之後發覺問題我們趕快去解決他的問題\n\n12\n00:03:47,153 --> 00:04:02,660\n所以海昆澳到底有沒有符合可以出海的條件呢到底是不是真的安全無虞呢現在依照國防部報告的整個內容我看IPMS跟主機與電力管理的整個系統無論問題的大小現在幾乎都還沒有被變出海對吧\n\n13\n00:04:07,346 --> 00:04:27,375\n跟委員報告我們整個的IPMS的測試程序完整做過了你做過之後就會發生有些的信號調效跟部分的還有些技術面的一個還要再重新的再做缺改所以現在會配合這個我們下一次出海前的部分我們做必要的一個調效跟缺改來達到出海的目標\n\n14\n00:04:28,348 --> 00:04:39,898\n其實這兩個系統其實都是非常有關海空號的基本安全的重要的系統現在潛艦的IPMS系統如果沒有發揮整個作用的話那等於是在開一艘二戰時期的潛艦每個部分都是要怎麼作動甚至船艦發生起火還有進水還有漏電都需要靠人力用含的潛艦還不能進行自動損管也就是說艦艇在遭受損害的時候還沒有辦法自行\n\n15\n00:04:56,472 --> 00:05:03,776\n去應急這整個處理就像我們的人體一樣所有的器官都是好的但是神經系統沒有用大腦指令傳達出問題這不是就像了自律神經一樣失調嗎那請問一下你們認為可以讓一個自律神經失調的潛艦出海這樣是安全的嗎\n\n16\n00:05:14,331 --> 00:05:36,466\n跟委員報告它整個IPMS它是一個整合的一個測試它其實重要的是在它的自動控制信號的傳輸那包含我們現在現有兩條那個海龍跟海虎級它的設計的方法跟這個自動化程度也是有一定的這一個演進的所以現在的海昆圈當然是比海龍海虎要好\n\n17\n00:05:37,026 --> 00:05:42,087\n但它基本的操作它有一定的安全連動性就算這些的IPMS信號傳輸跟整個操控上我們還是會從裡面整個連動裡面它還有一些如果說我們有沒測到但是我們的系統都可以做到一些安全的一個管控的部分這些小部分的部分我們都繼續在做一些調效跟測試之中\n\n18\n00:05:59,571 --> 00:06:11,498\n其實整艘潛艦我看不論是主系統次系統還有子系統幾乎都是要靠電力系統來供電但是偏偏電力系統的問題到現在都還沒有辦法解決尤其是損管的問題整個潛艦的鏡頭還有感測器都是必須要有電才可以如果損管這個整個系統如果沒有辦法偵測潛艦是否有進水還有火災還有煙霧這個問題都要靠人力來回報這樣的\n\n19\n00:06:27,609 --> 00:06:32,456\n潛艦安全是十分的堪慮的那自動充電的具體是硬體問題還是軟體的問題呢還有電力系統究竟還有哪些問題還沒有解決的還是根本沒有辦法解決到底是發生了什麼問題可以說明一下嗎\n\n20\n00:06:43,577 --> 00:07:00,748\n各位委員報告委員您剛才有提到它整個潛艦是靠主機來發電發電端之後它會到我們的電瓶系統在把整個的推動力的這個動力的傳輸到我們的後面的這個車業馬達來推動那所以它整個是一道比較\n\n21\n00:07:01,508 --> 00:07:25,236\n我想我們在報告裡面也特別提到說一個潛艦的核心的一個關鍵就是它傳動動力能夠盡早的達成所以現在這個目前的部分都是單機的跟我們上次以三次扶航就是已經把這個動力的部分推進已經沒有問題了那後面針對有些信號在調校你剛才提那個損管的部分我們現在損管的部分都是正常並沒有如傳聞所說的其他的這些問題\n\n22\n00:07:26,957 --> 00:07:35,547\n所以台灣其實要製造一個國造潛艦其實是非常困難我們當然都是可以體諒但是國防部也要再要跟大家說實話因為潛艦本來就是在一個極端環境下作戰的軍備都不能有任何的損失\n\n23\n00:07:41,854 --> 00:07:51,800\n不然會危害國軍的人命而且甚至影響國民和國家的士氣所以絕對是不可以有任何失誤的過去關於潛艦的意外其實往往代價都是付出都是非常的沉重所以請國防部千萬千萬不要省略了任何安全性的測試的步驟可以保證嗎\n\n24\n00:08:01,826 --> 00:08:29,214\n報告委員我們這個部長已經一再的對外公開說明絕對是在安全的情況下我們才會繼續進行一切的測試跟這個調校那剛才也說過了外面很多現在的傳聞並不是真實的那我們只是我們是在測試的過程中的確遭遇到一些delay跟一些要重新調整的問題那我們現在還在繼續的繼續努力所以建造的部分是完全按照節點進行\n\n25\n00:08:30,534 --> 00:08:37,218\n測試的部分遭到部分的這個這個延後那我們也現在也發覺出問題來繼續在持續的做後續的這個進一步的這個調整讓這個可以做完整並且安全的測試能達到這個潛艦的公式性能所以是的我們會非常重視在安全的原則之下我們才來完成這個潛艦的建造\n\n26\n00:08:54,833 --> 00:09:02,571\n接下來我再請教一個問題就是海空號未來開始做潛航測試的時候會有深水潛航對不對是的\n\n27\n00:09:05,175 --> 00:09:26,027\n潛艦最大的設計就是下潛的深度一般來說這個是機密的啦但是不代表不用測試如果不做最大的深潛的測試的話海軍就沒有辦法知道在極端的環境下會遇到什麼問題甚至能不能下潛到最大的設計深度我想請教一下就是海空號會做到最大的深潛的測試\n\n28\n00:09:28,057 --> 00:09:37,992\n這是當然都會做這當然就是跟這艘潛艦能不能達到我們設計的工性是有非常密切的關係當然該做的測試我們一定都會做\n\n29\n00:09:39,127 --> 00:10:08,206\n好所以剛才我們談了那麼多像這些問題海軍有沒有預計有沒有什麼克服的時間還是說國防部隊延後時程根本都沒有辦法掌握我們都有部裡頭實際上他這個每個禮拜都會過來跟部長做這個專案的報告那我們都有掌握他現在遭遇到的問題還有他們排除的方法以及後續我們要達成的目標國防部都有掌握我們也有這個信心這海軍號可以海軍可以在一定的這個\n\n30\n00:10:09,267 --> 00:10:13,659\n目標原則之下把它達成我們所需要達成的目的好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1954\t7083\t謝謝主席有請執行官請副總長還有參謀長委員好\n13955\t19137\t你好首先我先針對今天送來的書面報告的內容我本行收到報告的時候覺得看起來是很熟悉就請助理用電腦AI比對海軍在10月13號發出的新聞稿內容結果顯示裡面的內容75%以上跟海軍10月13號發布的新聞稿的內容是一模一樣的除了第一頁的摘要報告外其餘的內容都幾乎雷同想請國防部到立法院來做專案報告的時候\n43607\t67979\t要認真的面對不要拿舊的新聞稿直接改標題這樣的話我覺得這樣是有點企圖敷衍我們國會立委啦所以未來請改進報告委員不敢敷衍啦只是這個會議是公開會議所以我們基本上來講是以能公開能揭露的資訊來做這個報告那委員如果對這個報告內容有所建言的話我們回去也會進行改進\n69424\t88141\t接下來我進入正題國造潛艦海空號其實現在是全台灣的人民甚至全世界高度關注的國防自主但是看來海空號在9月底完成海撤的目標已經跳票了所以按照這個進度你覺得11月交艦的目標還有機會完成嗎這部分我請海軍參謀長跟您做詳細的答覆\n94685\t121979\t委員好 鮑委員我們的建造是按照節點但是我們的測試的確因為測試的衍生工程面的一個部分我們需要去解決的問題那的確是有兩個月的delay所以我們在11月份要達成這個測試然後這會比較的挑戰所以有可能我們這個整個測試的期程會往後所以看來應該不可能完成了嘛但是我們目前也是儘快能夠達到這個潛航準備的時候我們就會出去做後續的測試\n123531\t136691\t那我再請教一下海空號的港測的項目是不是一定要全部做完才能夠滿足整個出海的條件呢還是說可以跳過有些部分的測試項目就可以先進行海測呢\n138342\t161058\t報議員 我們整個的測試它有一定的測試程序書那我們整個從港測到海測中間我們都經過技協跟專業的建造還有這個廠方我們會來完整訂定整個測試的期程所以它是按照一個測試的期程跟建造的規範書我們把測試的這個次序訂出來之後按照這樣來做推動\n161738\t174686\t所以港測的項目是幾乎全部都有完成嗎是只有部分可能需要不影響實際上操作的那其他都還有解決方案的所以剛才我的意思就是說所以還是有跳過部分測試的項目嗎對不對\n177128\t193161\t有些的部分它就像IPMS可能當初就有幾個測像是需要但是它不影響實際的操作那我們也是在審核了整個安全機制沒有問題然後這些也必須要能夠先去做必要的測試能夠發掘問題才能夠解決問題\n195143\t211103\t所以現在的意思就是說其實海昆號的港車其實都還沒有完全的做完但是海軍覺得安全無虞所以為了趕時間就先出海然後做部分的海撤項目對不對我請那個海拔中心主任解釋一下\n212410\t221294\t各位委員報告所有的測試都有缺點在缺點不影響我們海上航行安全的話我們都會先執行測試讓我們所有的測試都經過聯測之後發覺問題我們趕快去解決他的問題\n227153\t242660\t所以海昆澳到底有沒有符合可以出海的條件呢到底是不是真的安全無虞呢現在依照國防部報告的整個內容我看IPMS跟主機與電力管理的整個系統無論問題的大小現在幾乎都還沒有被變出海對吧\n247346\t267375\t跟委員報告我們整個的IPMS的測試程序完整做過了你做過之後就會發生有些的信號調效跟部分的還有些技術面的一個還要再重新的再做缺改所以現在會配合這個我們下一次出海前的部分我們做必要的一個調效跟缺改來達到出海的目標\n268348\t279898\t其實這兩個系統其實都是非常有關海空號的基本安全的重要的系統現在潛艦的IPMS系統如果沒有發揮整個作用的話那等於是在開一艘二戰時期的潛艦每個部分都是要怎麼作動甚至船艦發生起火還有進水還有漏電都需要靠人力用含的潛艦還不能進行自動損管也就是說艦艇在遭受損害的時候還沒有辦法自行\n296472\t303776\t去應急這整個處理就像我們的人體一樣所有的器官都是好的但是神經系統沒有用大腦指令傳達出問題這不是就像了自律神經一樣失調嗎那請問一下你們認為可以讓一個自律神經失調的潛艦出海這樣是安全的嗎\n314331\t336466\t跟委員報告它整個IPMS它是一個整合的一個測試它其實重要的是在它的自動控制信號的傳輸那包含我們現在現有兩條那個海龍跟海虎級它的設計的方法跟這個自動化程度也是有一定的這一個演進的所以現在的海昆圈當然是比海龍海虎要好\n337026\t342087\t但它基本的操作它有一定的安全連動性就算這些的IPMS信號傳輸跟整個操控上我們還是會從裡面整個連動裡面它還有一些如果說我們有沒測到但是我們的系統都可以做到一些安全的一個管控的部分這些小部分的部分我們都繼續在做一些調效跟測試之中\n359571\t371498\t其實整艘潛艦我看不論是主系統次系統還有子系統幾乎都是要靠電力系統來供電但是偏偏電力系統的問題到現在都還沒有辦法解決尤其是損管的問題整個潛艦的鏡頭還有感測器都是必須要有電才可以如果損管這個整個系統如果沒有辦法偵測潛艦是否有進水還有火災還有煙霧這個問題都要靠人力來回報這樣的\n387609\t392456\t潛艦安全是十分的堪慮的那自動充電的具體是硬體問題還是軟體的問題呢還有電力系統究竟還有哪些問題還沒有解決的還是根本沒有辦法解決到底是發生了什麼問題可以說明一下嗎\n403577\t420748\t各位委員報告 委員您剛才有提到它整個潛艦是靠主機來發電發電端之後它會到我們的電瓶系統在把整個的推動力的這個動力的傳輸到我們的後面的這個車業馬達來推動那所以它整個是一道比較\n421508\t445236\t我想我們在報告裡面也特別提到說一個潛艦的核心的一個關鍵就是它傳動動力能夠盡早的達成所以現在這個目前的部分都是單機的跟我們上次以三次扶航就是已經把這個動力的部分推進已經沒有問題了那後面針對有些信號在調校你剛才提那個損管的部分我們現在損管的部分都是正常並沒有如傳聞所說的其他的這些問題\n446957\t455547\t所以台灣其實要製造一個國造潛艦其實是非常困難我們當然都是可以體諒但是國防部也要再要跟大家說實話因為潛艦本來就是在一個極端環境下作戰的軍備都不能有任何的損失\n461854\t471800\t不然會危害國軍的人命而且甚至影響國民和國家的士氣所以絕對是不可以有任何失誤的過去關於潛艦的意外其實往往代價都是付出都是非常的沉重所以請國防部千萬千萬不要省略了任何安全性的測試的步驟可以保證嗎\n481826\t509214\t報告委員我們這個部長已經一再的對外公開說明絕對是在安全的情況下我們才會繼續進行一切的測試跟這個調校那剛才也說過了外面很多現在的傳聞並不是真實的那我們只是我們是在測試的過程中的確遭遇到一些delay跟一些要重新調整的問題那我們現在還在繼續的繼續努力所以建造的部分是完全按照節點進行\n510534\t517218\t測試的部分遭到部分的這個這個延後那我們也現在也發覺出問題來繼續在持續的做後續的這個進一步的這個調整讓這個可以做完整並且安全的測試能達到這個潛艦的公式性能所以是的我們會非常重視在安全的原則之下我們才來完成這個潛艦的建造\n534833\t542571\t接下來我再請教一個問題就是海空號未來開始做潛航測試的時候會有深水潛航對不對是的\n545175\t566027\t潛艦最大的設計就是下潛的深度一般來說這個是機密的啦但是不代表不用測試如果不做最大的深潛的測試的話海軍就沒有辦法知道在極端的環境下會遇到什麼問題甚至能不能下潛到最大的設計深度我想請教一下就是海空號會做到最大的深潛的測試\n568057\t577992\t這是當然都會做這當然就是跟這艘潛艦能不能達到我們設計的工性是有非常密切的關係當然該做的測試我們一定都會做\n579127\t608206\t好所以剛才我們談了那麼多像這些問題海軍有沒有預計有沒有什麼克服的時間還是說國防部隊延後時程根本都沒有辦法掌握我們都有部裡頭實際上他這個每個禮拜都會過來跟部長做這個專案的報告那我們都有掌握他現在遭遇到的問題還有他們排除的方法以及後續我們要達成的目標國防部都有掌握我們也有這個信心這海軍號可以海軍可以在一定的這個\n609267\t613659\t目標原則之下把它達成我們所需要達成的目的好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請執行官請副總長還有參謀長委員好\n你好首先我先針對今天送來的書面報告的內容我本行收到報告的時候覺得看起來是很熟悉就請助理用電腦AI比對海軍在10月13號發出的新聞稿內容結果顯示裡面的內容75%以上跟海軍10月13號發布的新聞稿的內容是一模一樣的除了第一頁的摘要報告外其餘的內容都幾乎雷同想請國防部到立法院來做專案報告的時候\n要認真的面對不要拿舊的新聞稿直接改標題這樣的話我覺得這樣是有點企圖敷衍我們國會立委啦所以未來請改進報告委員不敢敷衍啦只是這個會議是公開會議所以我們基本上來講是以能公開能揭露的資訊來做這個報告那委員如果對這個報告內容有所建言的話我們回去也會進行改進\n接下來我進入正題國造潛艦海空號其實現在是全台灣的人民甚至全世界高度關注的國防自主但是看來海空號在9月底完成海撤的目標已經跳票了所以按照這個進度你覺得11月交艦的目標還有機會完成嗎這部分我請海軍參謀長跟您做詳細的答覆\n委員好 鮑委員我們的建造是按照節點但是我們的測試的確因為測試的衍生工程面的一個部分我們需要去解決的問題那的確是有兩個月的delay所以我們在11月份要達成這個測試然後這會比較的挑戰所以有可能我們這個整個測試的期程會往後所以看來應該不可能完成了嘛但是我們目前也是儘快能夠達到這個潛航準備的時候我們就會出去做後續的測試\n那我再請教一下海空號的港測的項目是不是一定要全部做完才能夠滿足整個出海的條件呢還是說可以跳過有些部分的測試項目就可以先進行海測呢\n報議員 我們整個的測試它有一定的測試程序書那我們整個從港測到海測中間我們都經過技協跟專業的建造還有這個廠方我們會來完整訂定整個測試的期程所以它是按照一個測試的期程跟建造的規範書我們把測試的這個次序訂出來之後按照這樣來做推動\n所以港測的項目是幾乎全部都有完成嗎是只有部分可能需要不影響實際上操作的那其他都還有解決方案的所以剛才我的意思就是說所以還是有跳過部分測試的項目嗎對不對\n有些的部分它就像IPMS可能當初就有幾個測像是需要但是它不影響實際的操作那我們也是在審核了整個安全機制沒有問題然後這些也必須要能夠先去做必要的測試能夠發掘問題才能夠解決問題\n所以現在的意思就是說其實海昆號的港車其實都還沒有完全的做完但是海軍覺得安全無虞所以為了趕時間就先出海然後做部分的海撤項目對不對我請那個海拔中心主任解釋一下\n各位委員報告所有的測試都有缺點在缺點不影響我們海上航行安全的話我們都會先執行測試讓我們所有的測試都經過聯測之後發覺問題我們趕快去解決他的問題\n所以海昆澳到底有沒有符合可以出海的條件呢到底是不是真的安全無虞呢現在依照國防部報告的整個內容我看IPMS跟主機與電力管理的整個系統無論問題的大小現在幾乎都還沒有被變出海對吧\n跟委員報告我們整個的IPMS的測試程序完整做過了你做過之後就會發生有些的信號調效跟部分的還有些技術面的一個還要再重新的再做缺改所以現在會配合這個我們下一次出海前的部分我們做必要的一個調效跟缺改來達到出海的目標\n其實這兩個系統其實都是非常有關海空號的基本安全的重要的系統現在潛艦的IPMS系統如果沒有發揮整個作用的話那等於是在開一艘二戰時期的潛艦每個部分都是要怎麼作動甚至船艦發生起火還有進水還有漏電都需要靠人力用含的潛艦還不能進行自動損管也就是說艦艇在遭受損害的時候還沒有辦法自行\n去應急這整個處理就像我們的人體一樣所有的器官都是好的但是神經系統沒有用大腦指令傳達出問題這不是就像了自律神經一樣失調嗎那請問一下你們認為可以讓一個自律神經失調的潛艦出海這樣是安全的嗎\n跟委員報告它整個IPMS它是一個整合的一個測試它其實重要的是在它的自動控制信號的傳輸那包含我們現在現有兩條那個海龍跟海虎級它的設計的方法跟這個自動化程度也是有一定的這一個演進的所以現在的海昆圈當然是比海龍海虎要好\n但它基本的操作它有一定的安全連動性就算這些的IPMS信號傳輸跟整個操控上我們還是會從裡面整個連動裡面它還有一些如果說我們有沒測到但是我們的系統都可以做到一些安全的一個管控的部分這些小部分的部分我們都繼續在做一些調效跟測試之中\n其實整艘潛艦我看不論是主系統次系統還有子系統幾乎都是要靠電力系統來供電但是偏偏電力系統的問題到現在都還沒有辦法解決尤其是損管的問題整個潛艦的鏡頭還有感測器都是必須要有電才可以如果損管這個整個系統如果沒有辦法偵測潛艦是否有進水還有火災還有煙霧這個問題都要靠人力來回報這樣的\n潛艦安全是十分的堪慮的那自動充電的具體是硬體問題還是軟體的問題呢還有電力系統究竟還有哪些問題還沒有解決的還是根本沒有辦法解決到底是發生了什麼問題可以說明一下嗎\n各位委員報告 委員您剛才有提到它整個潛艦是靠主機來發電發電端之後它會到我們的電瓶系統在把整個的推動力的這個動力的傳輸到我們的後面的這個車業馬達來推動那所以它整個是一道比較\n我想我們在報告裡面也特別提到說一個潛艦的核心的一個關鍵就是它傳動動力能夠盡早的達成所以現在這個目前的部分都是單機的跟我們上次以三次扶航就是已經把這個動力的部分推進已經沒有問題了那後面針對有些信號在調校你剛才提那個損管的部分我們現在損管的部分都是正常並沒有如傳聞所說的其他的這些問題\n所以台灣其實要製造一個國造潛艦其實是非常困難我們當然都是可以體諒但是國防部也要再要跟大家說實話因為潛艦本來就是在一個極端環境下作戰的軍備都不能有任何的損失\n不然會危害國軍的人命而且甚至影響國民和國家的士氣所以絕對是不可以有任何失誤的過去關於潛艦的意外其實往往代價都是付出都是非常的沉重所以請國防部千萬千萬不要省略了任何安全性的測試的步驟可以保證嗎\n報告委員我們這個部長已經一再的對外公開說明絕對是在安全的情況下我們才會繼續進行一切的測試跟這個調校那剛才也說過了外面很多現在的傳聞並不是真實的那我們只是我們是在測試的過程中的確遭遇到一些delay跟一些要重新調整的問題那我們現在還在繼續的繼續努力所以建造的部分是完全按照節點進行\n測試的部分遭到部分的這個這個延後那我們也現在也發覺出問題來繼續在持續的做後續的這個進一步的這個調整讓這個可以做完整並且安全的測試能達到這個潛艦的公式性能所以是的我們會非常重視在安全的原則之下我們才來完成這個潛艦的建造\n接下來我再請教一個問題就是海空號未來開始做潛航測試的時候會有深水潛航對不對是的\n潛艦最大的設計就是下潛的深度一般來說這個是機密的啦但是不代表不用測試如果不做最大的深潛的測試的話海軍就沒有辦法知道在極端的環境下會遇到什麼問題甚至能不能下潛到最大的設計深度我想請教一下就是海空號會做到最大的深潛的測試\n這是當然都會做這當然就是跟這艘潛艦能不能達到我們設計的工性是有非常密切的關係當然該做的測試我們一定都會做\n好所以剛才我們談了那麼多像這些問題海軍有沒有預計有沒有什麼克服的時間還是說國防部隊延後時程根本都沒有辦法掌握我們都有部裡頭實際上他這個每個禮拜都會過來跟部長做這個專案的報告那我們都有掌握他現在遭遇到的問題還有他們排除的方法以及後續我們要達成的目標國防部都有掌握我們也有這個信心這海軍號可以海軍可以在一定的這個\n目標原則之下把它達成我們所需要達成的目的好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.954 --> 00:07.083\n謝謝主席有請執行官請副總長還有參謀長委員好\n\n00:13.955 --> 00:19.137\n你好首先我先針對今天送來的書面報告的內容我本行收到報告的時候覺得看起來是很熟悉就請助理用電腦AI比對海軍在10月13號發出的新聞稿內容結果顯示裡面的內容75%以上跟海軍10月13號發布的新聞稿的內容是一模一樣的除了第一頁的摘要報告外其餘的內容都幾乎雷同想請國防部到立法院來做專案報告的時候\n\n00:43.607 --> 01:07.979\n要認真的面對不要拿舊的新聞稿直接改標題這樣的話我覺得這樣是有點企圖敷衍我們國會立委啦所以未來請改進報告委員不敢敷衍啦只是這個會議是公開會議所以我們基本上來講是以能公開能揭露的資訊來做這個報告那委員如果對這個報告內容有所建言的話我們回去也會進行改進\n\n01:09.424 --> 01:28.141\n接下來我進入正題國造潛艦海空號其實現在是全台灣的人民甚至全世界高度關注的國防自主但是看來海空號在9月底完成海撤的目標已經跳票了所以按照這個進度你覺得11月交艦的目標還有機會完成嗎這部分我請海軍參謀長跟您做詳細的答覆\n\n01:34.685 --> 02:01.979\n委員好鮑委員我們的建造是按照節點但是我們的測試的確因為測試的衍生工程面的一個部分我們需要去解決的問題那的確是有兩個月的delay所以我們在11月份要達成這個測試然後這會比較的挑戰所以有可能我們這個整個測試的期程會往後所以看來應該不可能完成了嘛但是我們目前也是儘快能夠達到這個潛航準備的時候我們就會出去做後續的測試\n\n02:03.531 --> 02:16.691\n那我再請教一下海空號的港測的項目是不是一定要全部做完才能夠滿足整個出海的條件呢還是說可以跳過有些部分的測試項目就可以先進行海測呢\n\n02:18.342 --> 02:41.058\n報議員我們整個的測試它有一定的測試程序書那我們整個從港測到海測中間我們都經過技協跟專業的建造還有這個廠方我們會來完整訂定整個測試的期程所以它是按照一個測試的期程跟建造的規範書我們把測試的這個次序訂出來之後按照這樣來做推動\n\n02:41.738 --> 02:54.686\n所以港測的項目是幾乎全部都有完成嗎是只有部分可能需要不影響實際上操作的那其他都還有解決方案的所以剛才我的意思就是說所以還是有跳過部分測試的項目嗎對不對\n\n02:57.128 --> 03:13.161\n有些的部分它就像IPMS可能當初就有幾個測像是需要但是它不影響實際的操作那我們也是在審核了整個安全機制沒有問題然後這些也必須要能夠先去做必要的測試能夠發掘問題才能夠解決問題\n\n03:15.143 --> 03:31.103\n所以現在的意思就是說其實海昆號的港車其實都還沒有完全的做完但是海軍覺得安全無虞所以為了趕時間就先出海然後做部分的海撤項目對不對我請那個海拔中心主任解釋一下\n\n03:32.410 --> 03:41.294\n各位委員報告所有的測試都有缺點在缺點不影響我們海上航行安全的話我們都會先執行測試讓我們所有的測試都經過聯測之後發覺問題我們趕快去解決他的問題\n\n03:47.153 --> 04:02.660\n所以海昆澳到底有沒有符合可以出海的條件呢到底是不是真的安全無虞呢現在依照國防部報告的整個內容我看IPMS跟主機與電力管理的整個系統無論問題的大小現在幾乎都還沒有被變出海對吧\n\n04:07.346 --> 04:27.375\n跟委員報告我們整個的IPMS的測試程序完整做過了你做過之後就會發生有些的信號調效跟部分的還有些技術面的一個還要再重新的再做缺改所以現在會配合這個我們下一次出海前的部分我們做必要的一個調效跟缺改來達到出海的目標\n\n04:28.348 --> 04:39.898\n其實這兩個系統其實都是非常有關海空號的基本安全的重要的系統現在潛艦的IPMS系統如果沒有發揮整個作用的話那等於是在開一艘二戰時期的潛艦每個部分都是要怎麼作動甚至船艦發生起火還有進水還有漏電都需要靠人力用含的潛艦還不能進行自動損管也就是說艦艇在遭受損害的時候還沒有辦法自行\n\n04:56.472 --> 05:03.776\n去應急這整個處理就像我們的人體一樣所有的器官都是好的但是神經系統沒有用大腦指令傳達出問題這不是就像了自律神經一樣失調嗎那請問一下你們認為可以讓一個自律神經失調的潛艦出海這樣是安全的嗎\n\n05:14.331 --> 05:36.466\n跟委員報告它整個IPMS它是一個整合的一個測試它其實重要的是在它的自動控制信號的傳輸那包含我們現在現有兩條那個海龍跟海虎級它的設計的方法跟這個自動化程度也是有一定的這一個演進的所以現在的海昆圈當然是比海龍海虎要好\n\n05:37.026 --> 05:42.087\n但它基本的操作它有一定的安全連動性就算這些的IPMS信號傳輸跟整個操控上我們還是會從裡面整個連動裡面它還有一些如果說我們有沒測到但是我們的系統都可以做到一些安全的一個管控的部分這些小部分的部分我們都繼續在做一些調效跟測試之中\n\n05:59.571 --> 06:11.498\n其實整艘潛艦我看不論是主系統次系統還有子系統幾乎都是要靠電力系統來供電但是偏偏電力系統的問題到現在都還沒有辦法解決尤其是損管的問題整個潛艦的鏡頭還有感測器都是必須要有電才可以如果損管這個整個系統如果沒有辦法偵測潛艦是否有進水還有火災還有煙霧這個問題都要靠人力來回報這樣的\n\n06:27.609 --> 06:32.456\n潛艦安全是十分的堪慮的那自動充電的具體是硬體問題還是軟體的問題呢還有電力系統究竟還有哪些問題還沒有解決的還是根本沒有辦法解決到底是發生了什麼問題可以說明一下嗎\n\n06:43.577 --> 07:00.748\n各位委員報告委員您剛才有提到它整個潛艦是靠主機來發電發電端之後它會到我們的電瓶系統在把整個的推動力的這個動力的傳輸到我們的後面的這個車業馬達來推動那所以它整個是一道比較\n\n07:01.508 --> 07:25.236\n我想我們在報告裡面也特別提到說一個潛艦的核心的一個關鍵就是它傳動動力能夠盡早的達成所以現在這個目前的部分都是單機的跟我們上次以三次扶航就是已經把這個動力的部分推進已經沒有問題了那後面針對有些信號在調校你剛才提那個損管的部分我們現在損管的部分都是正常並沒有如傳聞所說的其他的這些問題\n\n07:26.957 --> 07:35.547\n所以台灣其實要製造一個國造潛艦其實是非常困難我們當然都是可以體諒但是國防部也要再要跟大家說實話因為潛艦本來就是在一個極端環境下作戰的軍備都不能有任何的損失\n\n07:41.854 --> 07:51.800\n不然會危害國軍的人命而且甚至影響國民和國家的士氣所以絕對是不可以有任何失誤的過去關於潛艦的意外其實往往代價都是付出都是非常的沉重所以請國防部千萬千萬不要省略了任何安全性的測試的步驟可以保證嗎\n\n08:01.826 --> 08:29.214\n報告委員我們這個部長已經一再的對外公開說明絕對是在安全的情況下我們才會繼續進行一切的測試跟這個調校那剛才也說過了外面很多現在的傳聞並不是真實的那我們只是我們是在測試的過程中的確遭遇到一些delay跟一些要重新調整的問題那我們現在還在繼續的繼續努力所以建造的部分是完全按照節點進行\n\n08:30.534 --> 08:37.218\n測試的部分遭到部分的這個這個延後那我們也現在也發覺出問題來繼續在持續的做後續的這個進一步的這個調整讓這個可以做完整並且安全的測試能達到這個潛艦的公式性能所以是的我們會非常重視在安全的原則之下我們才來完成這個潛艦的建造\n\n08:54.833 --> 09:02.571\n接下來我再請教一個問題就是海空號未來開始做潛航測試的時候會有深水潛航對不對是的\n\n09:05.175 --> 09:26.027\n潛艦最大的設計就是下潛的深度一般來說這個是機密的啦但是不代表不用測試如果不做最大的深潛的測試的話海軍就沒有辦法知道在極端的環境下會遇到什麼問題甚至能不能下潛到最大的設計深度我想請教一下就是海空號會做到最大的深潛的測試\n\n09:28.057 --> 09:37.992\n這是當然都會做這當然就是跟這艘潛艦能不能達到我們設計的工性是有非常密切的關係當然該做的測試我們一定都會做\n\n09:39.127 --> 10:08.206\n好所以剛才我們談了那麼多像這些問題海軍有沒有預計有沒有什麼克服的時間還是說國防部隊延後時程根本都沒有辦法掌握我們都有部裡頭實際上他這個每個禮拜都會過來跟部長做這個專案的報告那我們都有掌握他現在遭遇到的問題還有他們排除的方法以及後續我們要達成的目標國防部都有掌握我們也有這個信心這海軍號可以海軍可以在一定的這個\n\n10:09.267 --> 10:13.659\n目標原則之下把它達成我們所需要達成的目的好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.954,"end":7.083,"text":"謝謝主席有請執行官請副總長還有參謀長委員好"},{"start":13.955,"end":19.137,"text":"你好首先我先針對今天送來的書面報告的內容我本行收到報告的時候覺得看起來是很熟悉就請助理用電腦AI比對海軍在10月13號發出的新聞稿內容結果顯示裡面的內容75%以上跟海軍10月13號發布的新聞稿的內容是一模一樣的除了第一頁的摘要報告外其餘的內容都幾乎雷同想請國防部到立法院來做專案報告的時候"},{"start":43.607,"end":67.979,"text":"要認真的面對不要拿舊的新聞稿直接改標題這樣的話我覺得這樣是有點企圖敷衍我們國會立委啦所以未來請改進報告委員不敢敷衍啦只是這個會議是公開會議所以我們基本上來講是以能公開能揭露的資訊來做這個報告那委員如果對這個報告內容有所建言的話我們回去也會進行改進"},{"start":69.424,"end":88.141,"text":"接下來我進入正題國造潛艦海空號其實現在是全台灣的人民甚至全世界高度關注的國防自主但是看來海空號在9月底完成海撤的目標已經跳票了所以按照這個進度你覺得11月交艦的目標還有機會完成嗎這部分我請海軍參謀長跟您做詳細的答覆"},{"start":94.685,"end":121.979,"text":"委員好 鮑委員我們的建造是按照節點但是我們的測試的確因為測試的衍生工程面的一個部分我們需要去解決的問題那的確是有兩個月的delay所以我們在11月份要達成這個測試然後這會比較的挑戰所以有可能我們這個整個測試的期程會往後所以看來應該不可能完成了嘛但是我們目前也是儘快能夠達到這個潛航準備的時候我們就會出去做後續的測試"},{"start":123.531,"end":136.691,"text":"那我再請教一下海空號的港測的項目是不是一定要全部做完才能夠滿足整個出海的條件呢還是說可以跳過有些部分的測試項目就可以先進行海測呢"},{"start":138.342,"end":161.058,"text":"報議員 我們整個的測試它有一定的測試程序書那我們整個從港測到海測中間我們都經過技協跟專業的建造還有這個廠方我們會來完整訂定整個測試的期程所以它是按照一個測試的期程跟建造的規範書我們把測試的這個次序訂出來之後按照這樣來做推動"},{"start":161.738,"end":174.686,"text":"所以港測的項目是幾乎全部都有完成嗎是只有部分可能需要不影響實際上操作的那其他都還有解決方案的所以剛才我的意思就是說所以還是有跳過部分測試的項目嗎對不對"},{"start":177.128,"end":193.161,"text":"有些的部分它就像IPMS可能當初就有幾個測像是需要但是它不影響實際的操作那我們也是在審核了整個安全機制沒有問題然後這些也必須要能夠先去做必要的測試能夠發掘問題才能夠解決問題"},{"start":195.143,"end":211.103,"text":"所以現在的意思就是說其實海昆號的港車其實都還沒有完全的做完但是海軍覺得安全無虞所以為了趕時間就先出海然後做部分的海撤項目對不對我請那個海拔中心主任解釋一下"},{"start":212.41,"end":221.294,"text":"各位委員報告所有的測試都有缺點在缺點不影響我們海上航行安全的話我們都會先執行測試讓我們所有的測試都經過聯測之後發覺問題我們趕快去解決他的問題"},{"start":227.153,"end":242.66,"text":"所以海昆澳到底有沒有符合可以出海的條件呢到底是不是真的安全無虞呢現在依照國防部報告的整個內容我看IPMS跟主機與電力管理的整個系統無論問題的大小現在幾乎都還沒有被變出海對吧"},{"start":247.346,"end":267.375,"text":"跟委員報告我們整個的IPMS的測試程序完整做過了你做過之後就會發生有些的信號調效跟部分的還有些技術面的一個還要再重新的再做缺改所以現在會配合這個我們下一次出海前的部分我們做必要的一個調效跟缺改來達到出海的目標"},{"start":268.348,"end":279.898,"text":"其實這兩個系統其實都是非常有關海空號的基本安全的重要的系統現在潛艦的IPMS系統如果沒有發揮整個作用的話那等於是在開一艘二戰時期的潛艦每個部分都是要怎麼作動甚至船艦發生起火還有進水還有漏電都需要靠人力用含的潛艦還不能進行自動損管也就是說艦艇在遭受損害的時候還沒有辦法自行"},{"start":296.472,"end":303.776,"text":"去應急這整個處理就像我們的人體一樣所有的器官都是好的但是神經系統沒有用大腦指令傳達出問題這不是就像了自律神經一樣失調嗎那請問一下你們認為可以讓一個自律神經失調的潛艦出海這樣是安全的嗎"},{"start":314.331,"end":336.466,"text":"跟委員報告它整個IPMS它是一個整合的一個測試它其實重要的是在它的自動控制信號的傳輸那包含我們現在現有兩條那個海龍跟海虎級它的設計的方法跟這個自動化程度也是有一定的這一個演進的所以現在的海昆圈當然是比海龍海虎要好"},{"start":337.026,"end":342.087,"text":"但它基本的操作它有一定的安全連動性就算這些的IPMS信號傳輸跟整個操控上我們還是會從裡面整個連動裡面它還有一些如果說我們有沒測到但是我們的系統都可以做到一些安全的一個管控的部分這些小部分的部分我們都繼續在做一些調效跟測試之中"},{"start":359.571,"end":371.498,"text":"其實整艘潛艦我看不論是主系統次系統還有子系統幾乎都是要靠電力系統來供電但是偏偏電力系統的問題到現在都還沒有辦法解決尤其是損管的問題整個潛艦的鏡頭還有感測器都是必須要有電才可以如果損管這個整個系統如果沒有辦法偵測潛艦是否有進水還有火災還有煙霧這個問題都要靠人力來回報這樣的"},{"start":387.609,"end":392.456,"text":"潛艦安全是十分的堪慮的那自動充電的具體是硬體問題還是軟體的問題呢還有電力系統究竟還有哪些問題還沒有解決的還是根本沒有辦法解決到底是發生了什麼問題可以說明一下嗎"},{"start":403.577,"end":420.748,"text":"各位委員報告 委員您剛才有提到它整個潛艦是靠主機來發電發電端之後它會到我們的電瓶系統在把整個的推動力的這個動力的傳輸到我們的後面的這個車業馬達來推動那所以它整個是一道比較"},{"start":421.508,"end":445.236,"text":"我想我們在報告裡面也特別提到說一個潛艦的核心的一個關鍵就是它傳動動力能夠盡早的達成所以現在這個目前的部分都是單機的跟我們上次以三次扶航就是已經把這個動力的部分推進已經沒有問題了那後面針對有些信號在調校你剛才提那個損管的部分我們現在損管的部分都是正常並沒有如傳聞所說的其他的這些問題"},{"start":446.957,"end":455.547,"text":"所以台灣其實要製造一個國造潛艦其實是非常困難我們當然都是可以體諒但是國防部也要再要跟大家說實話因為潛艦本來就是在一個極端環境下作戰的軍備都不能有任何的損失"},{"start":461.854,"end":471.8,"text":"不然會危害國軍的人命而且甚至影響國民和國家的士氣所以絕對是不可以有任何失誤的過去關於潛艦的意外其實往往代價都是付出都是非常的沉重所以請國防部千萬千萬不要省略了任何安全性的測試的步驟可以保證嗎"},{"start":481.826,"end":509.214,"text":"報告委員我們這個部長已經一再的對外公開說明絕對是在安全的情況下我們才會繼續進行一切的測試跟這個調校那剛才也說過了外面很多現在的傳聞並不是真實的那我們只是我們是在測試的過程中的確遭遇到一些delay跟一些要重新調整的問題那我們現在還在繼續的繼續努力所以建造的部分是完全按照節點進行"},{"start":510.534,"end":517.218,"text":"測試的部分遭到部分的這個這個延後那我們也現在也發覺出問題來繼續在持續的做後續的這個進一步的這個調整讓這個可以做完整並且安全的測試能達到這個潛艦的公式性能所以是的我們會非常重視在安全的原則之下我們才來完成這個潛艦的建造"},{"start":534.833,"end":542.571,"text":"接下來我再請教一個問題就是海空號未來開始做潛航測試的時候會有深水潛航對不對是的"},{"start":545.175,"end":566.027,"text":"潛艦最大的設計就是下潛的深度一般來說這個是機密的啦但是不代表不用測試如果不做最大的深潛的測試的話海軍就沒有辦法知道在極端的環境下會遇到什麼問題甚至能不能下潛到最大的設計深度我想請教一下就是海空號會做到最大的深潛的測試"},{"start":568.057,"end":577.992,"text":"這是當然都會做這當然就是跟這艘潛艦能不能達到我們設計的工性是有非常密切的關係當然該做的測試我們一定都會做"},{"start":579.127,"end":608.206,"text":"好所以剛才我們談了那麼多像這些問題海軍有沒有預計有沒有什麼克服的時間還是說國防部隊延後時程根本都沒有辦法掌握我們都有部裡頭實際上他這個每個禮拜都會過來跟部長做這個專案的報告那我們都有掌握他現在遭遇到的問題還有他們排除的方法以及後續我們要達成的目標國防部都有掌握我們也有這個信心這海軍號可以海軍可以在一定的這個"},{"start":609.267,"end":613.659,"text":"目標原則之下把它達成我們所需要達成的目的好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":589,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（11時21分）謝謝主席，有請執行官。"],["主席：請副總長還有參謀長。"],["黃副參謀總長執行官志偉：委員好。"],["林委員憶君：您好。首先我先針對今天送來的書面報告的內容，本席收到報告的時候覺得看起來很熟悉，就請助理用電腦AI比對海軍在10月13號發出的新聞稿內容，結果顯示裡面的內容百分之七十五以上跟海軍10月13號發布的新聞稿內容一模一樣，除了第1頁的摘要報告外，其餘內容都幾乎雷同。想請國防部到立法院做專案報告的時候要認真面對，不要拿舊的新聞稿直接改標題，這樣的話我覺得是有點企圖敷衍我們國會立委，所以未來請改進。"],["黃副參謀總長執行官志偉：報告委員，不敢敷衍，只是這個是公開會議，所以我們基本上來講是以能公開、能揭露的資訊來做報告。委員如果對這個報告內容有所建言的話，我們回去也會改進。"],["林委員憶君：好，接下來我進入正題，國造潛艦海鯤號，現在是全臺灣人民，甚至全世界高度關注的國防自主，但是看來海鯤號在9月底完成海測的目標已經跳票了。按照這個進度，你覺得11月交艦的目標還有機會完成嗎？"],["黃副參謀總長執行官志偉：這一部分我們請海軍參謀長跟您做詳細的答復。"],["邱參謀長俊榮：委員好。報告委員，我們建造是按照節點，但是我們的測試，因為測試而衍生工程面的部分，我們需要去解決問題，的確是有兩個月的delay，所以我們在11月份要達成這個測試，這部分會比較有挑戰，所以有可能我們這整個測試的期程會往……"],["林委員憶君：所以看來應該不可能完成了嘛？在11月。"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是，但目前也是儘快能夠達到潛航準備的時候，我們就會出去做後續的測試。"],["林委員憶君：好，那我再請教一下，海鯤號港測的項目是不是一定要全部做完，才能夠滿足整個出海的條件呢？還是可以跳過有些部分的測試項目，就可以先進行海測呢？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，我們的整個測試有一定的測試程序書，從港測到海測的過程之間，都經過技協、專業監造和廠方完整訂定整個測試的期程，所以我們是透過測試期程跟建造的規範書把測試的次序定出來之後，按照這樣來推動。"],["林委員憶君：所以港測的項目幾乎全部都有完成嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是，只有部分不影響實際操作的，也還有其他解決方案的，我們就會去……"],["林委員憶君：所以我剛才的意思就是還是有跳過部分的測試項目，對不對？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：因為有些部分……就像IPMS當初就有幾個測項是需要的，但是它不影響實際操作，我們也審核過整個安全機制沒有問題，這些項目也必須先作必要測試，發掘問題才能解決問題。"],["林委員憶君：所以你現在的意思就是海鯤號的港測其實還沒有完全作完，但是海軍覺得安全無虞，為了趕時間就先出海，作部分海測項目，對不對？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，我請海發中心主任解釋。"],["顧主任志中：跟委員報告，所有測試都有缺點，如果缺點不影響海上航行安全的話，我們都會先執行測試，讓所有測試都經過聯測之後發掘問題，我們趕快解決問題。"],["林委員憶君：所以海鯤號到底符不符合可以出海的條件、到底是不是真的安全無虞呢？依照國防部整個報告內容，我看IPMS跟主機與電力管理的整個系統無論問題大小，現在幾乎都還沒有備便出海，對吧？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：跟委員報告，整個IPMS的測試程序完整做過了，做過之後就會發現信號調校等部分還有一些技術面問題需要重新缺改，所以我們會配合在下一次出海前做必要的調校跟缺改，達到出海的目標。"],["林委員憶君：其實這兩個系統都是跟海鯤號基本安全非常相關的重要系統，現在潛艦的IPMS系統如果沒有發揮整個作用，那等於是在開一艘二戰時期的潛艦，每個部分要怎麼作動，甚至船艦起火、進水、漏電，都需要靠人力、用喊的，潛艦還不能進行自動損管。也就是說艦艇在遭受損害的時候還沒有辦法自行應急處理，就像我們人體一樣，所有器官都是好的，但是神經系統沒有用、大腦指令傳達出問題，這不就像自律神經失調一樣嗎？請問一下，你們認為可以讓一艘自律神經失調的潛艦出海，這樣是安全的嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：跟委員報告，整個IPMS是整合測試，重要的其實是在自動控制信號的傳輸。我們現有兩條海龍跟海虎級軍艦的設計方法跟自動化程度也有一定的演進，現在的海鯤艦當然比海龍、海虎要好，但是基本操作有一定的安全連動性，就算在IPMS信號傳輸跟整個操控上，我們還是會從連動裡面檢測，如果有沒測到的，系統也都可以做到安全的管控，對於這些小的部分，我們都在繼續調校跟測試中。"],["林委員憶君：其實我看整艘潛艦，無論是主系統、次系統或子系統，幾乎都要靠電力系統供電，偏偏電力系統的問題到現在都還沒辦法解決，尤其是損管問題，但整個潛艦的鏡頭和感測器都必須有電才可以啊！如果整個損管系統沒有辦法偵測潛艦是否有進水、火災、煙霧問題，都要靠人力回報的話，這樣的潛艦安全是十分堪慮的。那麼自動充電具體上是硬體問題還是軟體問題呢？電力系統究竟還有哪些問題沒解決呢？還是根本沒有辦法解決？到底發生了什麼問題，可以說明一下嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：跟委員報告，您剛才提到，整個潛艦是靠主機發電，發電端之後會傳送到電瓶系統，再把整個動力傳輸到後面的車葉馬達來推動，所以整個是依照比較……我們在報告裡也特別提到潛艦的核心關鍵就是傳送動力要能儘早達成，目前這個部分都是單機，我們在上次浮航動力推進這個部分已經沒有問題了，後面正在針對一些信號調校。您剛才提到的損管部分現在都正常，並沒有如傳聞所說的這些問題。"],["林委員憶君：臺灣要製造國造潛艦其實是非常困難的，我們當然都可以體諒啦！但是國防部也要跟大家說實話，因為潛艦本來就是在極端環境下作戰的軍備，不能有任何損失，不然會危害國軍的人命，甚至影響國民還有國家的士氣，所以是絕對不可以有任何失誤的。過去關於潛艦的意外付出的代價往往都非常沉重，所以請國防部千萬、千萬不要省略任何安全性測試的步驟。可以保證嗎？"],["黃副參謀總長執行官志偉：報告委員，部長已經一再對外公開說明，絕對是在安全的情況下才會繼續進行一切測試跟調校。剛才也說過，現在外面很多傳聞並不是真實的，我們在測試過程中的確遭遇到一些delay跟需要重新調整的問題，現在還在繼續努力。所以建造部分完全按照節點進行，測試遭到部分延後，我們現在也發掘出問題，持續做後續進一步的調整，讓潛艦可以做完整且安全的測試，以達到潛艦的功、性能。所以是的！我們會非常重視，在安全的原則之下才完成潛艦的建造。"],["林委員憶君：好。接下來我再請教一個問題，就是海鯤號未來開始做潛航測試的時候會有深水潛航對不對？"],["黃副參謀總長執行官志偉：是的。"],["林委員憶君：潛艦最大的設計就是下潛深度，一般來說這是機密，但是不代表不用測試。如果不做最大深潛測試的話，海軍就沒有辦法知道在極端環境下會遇到什麼問題，甚至能不能下潛到最大設計深度。那我想請教一下，海鯤號是否會做到最大的深潛測試？"],["黃副參謀總長執行官志偉：測試當然都會做，這跟這艘潛艦能不能達到我們設計的功性能有非常密切的關係，該做的測試我們一定都會做。"],["林委員憶君：剛才我們談了那麼多，對於這些問題，海軍有沒有預計克服的時間？還是國防部對延後時程根本都沒辦法掌握？"],["黃副參謀總長執行官志偉：其實他們每個禮拜都會到部裡向部長做專案報告，我們都有掌握他們現在遭遇的問題、排除的方法，以及後續要達成的目標。國防部都有掌握，我們也有信心，對於海鯤號，海軍可以在一定的目標原則之下達成我們需要達成的目的。"],["林委員憶君：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","今天已登記質詢的委員除不在場者外均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。","本日會議有王定宇委員、沈伯洋委員、楊瓊瓔委員提出書面質詢，列入紀錄，並刊登公報。委員書面及口頭質詢未及答復部分或要求補充資料者，請國防部以書面於2周內答復；委員另約定期限者，從其所定。我們今天有特別要求台船、海軍與國防部一併確認、提供相關資料，另外，要測的深度也要提供資料，好不好？"]],"agenda":{"page_end":208,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-6","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","徐巧芯","陳俊宇","林楚茵","陳冠廷","賴士葆","王鴻薇","林憶君","王定宇","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148501_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「潛艦國造原型艦海測執行現況及因應作為」，併請台灣國際造船股\n份有限公司董事長列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148501_00006"}}}