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379.218, \"score\": 0.895}]}, {\"start\": 380.559, \"end\": 409.33, \"text\": \"其實就已經非常明顯年輕人也不想投入就算拿到教師證他也不要再去徵事了好那所以如果說我們其實我們照顧退休老師我們也應該去看現在的第一線的老師他碰到什麼樣的問題導師費動漲13年所以我想請問一下教育部這是很多我們的教師團體爭取教育部有沒有要\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 380.559, \"end\": 380.939, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 380.939, \"end\": 381.139, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 381.139, \"end\": 381.379, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 381.379, \"end\": 381.479, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 381.479, \"end\": 381.619, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 381.619, \"end\": 382.1, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"顯\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 382.1, \"end\": 382.44, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"輕\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 382.44, \"end\": 382.6, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 382.6, \"end\": 382.78, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 382.78, \"end\": 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562.219, \"end\": 562.419, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 562.419, \"end\": 562.84, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 562.84, \"end\": 563.0, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 563.0, \"end\": 563.12, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 563.12, \"end\": 563.62, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"范\", \"start\": 563.62, \"end\": 563.961, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"雲\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 563.961, \"end\": 563.981, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,818 --> 00:00:18,186\n對我們先處理會議時間那上午會議時間繼續進行到所有登記發言委員詢答結束為止好請開始好謝謝主席請教育部次長好請朱次長我也請我們的權敘部次長好請懷次長\n\n2\n00:00:24,386 --> 00:00:43,571\n我先請教教育部就是這兩天大家非常關心的就是在一個清涵大學生他辦休學之後因為一萬八千塊錢的學雜費他選擇了輕生剛才也有委員來請教育次長但是我看次長所講的話\n\n3\n00:00:45,239 --> 00:01:03,785\n比如說如果學校多問一句恐怕就不會發生或者說這個橫向聯繫有疏失感覺我們教育部看待這件事情千錯萬錯好像都是第一線校務人員的錯但是在制度面\n\n4\n00:01:04,705 --> 00:01:29,824\n如果碰到這樣的一個清寒的學生不管他是需要救助也好或者是他因此而要辦理休學也好除了在我們第一線比如說這件事是學務處跟教務處橫向聯繫確實失靈但是在制度上我們教育部可以做任何的補強嗎\n\n5\n00:01:31,405 --> 00:01:58,304\n是謝謝委員提醒其實我們現在也有在思考上次趙偉也有跟我們指導就是說在他從高中升大學的時候因為我們對於中低收青函學生都有一些學長費的減免那如果是過去在高中有被介入或是一些處遇性的學生我們也有相關的一個資料我想這個部分我們應該更主動的而不是只有仰賴學校的一個橫向連結所以這一塊我們快來加強\n\n6\n00:02:00,740 --> 00:02:24,665\n對除了這個橫向聯繫就是學校的第一線的部分要加強之外其實包含剛才講的他從高中升大學他是不是仍然具有棄寒學生的一個身份或者是其實我們不管是公私立大學其實都有很多相關的救助而且應該讓所有的學生所有的學生都了解\n\n7\n00:02:25,165 --> 00:02:43,898\n都了解說事實上當他覺得他走上一個絕路的時候其實只要他願意提出是可以得到有人伸出援手的所以我覺得這一點就是說可能很多學生他的一個資訊的落差跟封閉那所以我才說在制度上我們怎麼樣讓校園的捕獲網不要每一次在檢討的時候就會變成只是推向第一線的學校他們處理不當\n\n8\n00:02:55,066 --> 00:03:09,094\n所以我覺得以後不要再發生這樣的事情請教育部能夠有一套比較清楚的這樣的一個制度另外呢我想剛才也有很多的委員去詢問到我們這一次的對於退休教師不管是他的退休金應該按照消費者物價指數聯動\n\n9\n00:03:21,661 --> 00:03:37,051\n現在可以看到各個委員可能他有2%、3%、5%各個不同的版本但是他的出發點動機都是基於對於這些退休的教師們在整個物價上漲的過程裡面能夠讓他確保他的生活\n\n10\n00:03:42,555 --> 00:03:48,539\n那另外大家都提到其實每一次從年改開始啊就在講說哎呀這會讓我們退府基金破產啊這是讓我們的這個政府財政更加惡化其實我聽到這些話我都覺得這是政府的推託之詞為什麼\n\n11\n00:04:01,187 --> 00:04:24,856\n我們已經講過比如說台電台電現在的虧損不就是錯誤的能源政策嗎那只要你改變這個政策台電就不需要一年虧兩千億三千億啊我們整個這次的年改下來一億住到退府基金這麼多年來退府一億住多少也不過兩千多億啊你台電一年就會虧到兩千億以上耶\n\n12\n00:04:25,416 --> 00:04:49,601\n一年就要虧到兩千以上另外剛才我就在我們的隔壁國防外交委員會質詢什麼呢我們國界國照海昆號一個海昆號花將近五百億新台幣五百億到現在仍然沒有辦法交件可是同一時間日本的這個蒼金號下水\n\n13\n00:04:51,882 --> 00:05:09,936\n148億不到150億所以我說我們幹嘛這樣子浪費納稅人的錢我們直接跟日本買好了又可以下水而且呢它的造價遠遠低於我們的造價我說算一算你要造7艘可以節省將近1800億\n\n14\n00:05:12,097 --> 00:05:34,973\n可以節省一千八百億然後我們這樣一直搞一直搞一直搞花這麼多的錢還不能刪喔不要說不能刪還不能動喔所以我覺得這一點呢事實上我覺得不要再每一次用這種方式用這種方式好像一副你對於這些退休教士或退休公教人員好像他們就是拖垮政府財政你怎麼不去檢討這些我剛才以上所述的\n\n15\n00:05:35,513 --> 00:05:51,973\n另外一個次長有一個很重要剛才特別提到很重要為什麼大家提到要讓消費者物價指數去連動退休的教師我現在講現役的教師\n\n16\n00:05:55,277 --> 00:06:19,218\n我們每一年消費者物價指數要漲多少我們的導師費我們的高中以下的導師費已經連續動漲13年之久啊所以為什麼大家不想當導師當導師其實責任很重大我不用再贅述了最近的教師荒\n\n17\n00:06:20,559 --> 00:06:49,330\n其實就已經非常明顯年輕人也不想投入就算拿到教師證他也不要再去徵事了好那所以如果說我們其實我們照顧退休老師我們也應該去看現在的第一線的老師他碰到什麼樣的問題導師費動漲13年所以我想請問一下教育部這是很多我們的教師團體爭取教育部有沒有要\n\n18\n00:06:49,910 --> 00:07:15,660\n準備研議改善是謝謝委員的指導我想不僅是只有導師費包含幾位委員在關心終點費的問題目前教育部我們都已經有在評估了而且我們方向上是希望能夠爭取到支持把它調高那這塊我們現在也在收集意見跟考量校內不同職級的部分我想這塊是教育部教育部要期期我告訴你\n\n19\n00:07:18,602 --> 00:07:44,802\n明年教育部的預算是不是少很多是不是少很多我們都說窮不能窮孩子窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子結果教育部因為國防的經費大幅的提高結果你們教育部相對的你看國教署就少了138億所以我要講的是我們其實應該花更多的資源在教育上而像我剛才說的你說終點費也是一樣\n\n20\n00:07:47,283 --> 00:08:13,069\n導師費也是一樣現在真的像代理老師有很多代理老師現在嚴重缺乏願意代理一定現在可能代理十年以上啦然後代理老師還要去當導師對不對那薪水就已經很微薄然後導師費一個月只有三千塊所以我希望能夠你有一個期程你明年是不可能增加是嗎\n\n21\n00:08:15,441 --> 00:08:36,131\n你現在還要等一年一年多的我們其實經費的部分會減少其實不是我們使者減少而是因為財發法的一些分配問題但是如果說我們一旦決定要能夠調高導資費跟終點費的話我想教一部我們自己內部也會盡量沒有所以次長你認為應不應該調高\n\n22\n00:08:40,835 --> 00:08:47,299\n如果以我個人來講我身為三個小孩子的爸爸當然希望導師人這麼辛苦我是希望能夠盡量幫他們爭取\n\n23\n00:08:49,169 --> 00:09:10,508\n我覺得如果大家都覺得應該要調了實在是時間那麼久不調不合理的時候我覺得應該做就要做該花的錢這個是我們該花的錢好不好我們會積極來爭取好不好我還是很希望說即便明年的預算沒有但是我們想什麼樣的方法\n\n24\n00:09:12,950 --> 00:09:23,981\n來讓這些第一線的導師能夠他們得到合理的一個酬勞好不好好謝謝委員知道好謝謝王委員那接下來請范雲委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n818\t18186\t對 我們先處理會議時間那上午會議時間繼續進行到所有登記發言委員詢答結束為止好 請開始好 謝謝主席請教育部次長好 請朱次長我也請我們的權敘部次長好 請懷次長\n24386\t43571\t我先請教教育部就是這兩天大家非常關心的就是在一個清涵大學生他辦休學之後因為一萬八千塊錢的學雜費他選擇了輕生剛才也有委員來請教育次長但是我看次長所講的話\n45239\t63785\t比如說如果學校多問一句恐怕就不會發生或者說這個橫向聯繫有疏失感覺我們教育部看待這件事情千錯萬錯好像都是第一線校務人員的錯但是在制度面\n64705\t89824\t如果碰到這樣的一個清寒的學生不管他是需要救助也好或者是他因此而要辦理休學也好除了在我們第一線比如說這件事是學務處跟教務處橫向聯繫確實失靈但是在制度上我們教育部可以做任何的補強嗎\n91405\t118304\t是 謝謝委員提醒其實我們現在也有在思考上次趙偉也有跟我們指導就是說在他從高中升大學的時候因為我們對於中低收青函學生都有一些學長費的減免那如果是過去在高中有被介入或是一些處遇性的學生我們也有相關的一個資料我想這個部分我們應該更主動的而不是只有仰賴學校的一個橫向連結所以這一塊我們快來加強\n120740\t144665\t對 除了這個橫向聯繫就是學校的第一線的部分要加強之外其實包含剛才講的他從高中升大學他是不是仍然具有棄寒學生的一個身份或者是其實我們不管是公私立大學其實都有很多相關的救助而且應該讓所有的學生所有的學生都了解\n145165\t163898\t都了解說事實上當他覺得他走上一個絕路的時候其實只要他願意提出是可以得到有人伸出援手的所以我覺得這一點就是說可能很多學生他的一個資訊的落差跟封閉那所以我才說在制度上我們怎麼樣讓校園的捕獲網不要每一次在檢討的時候就會變成只是推向第一線的學校他們處理不當\n175066\t189094\t所以我覺得以後不要再發生這樣的事情請教育部能夠有一套比較清楚的這樣的一個制度另外呢 我想剛才也有很多的委員去詢問到我們這一次的對於退休教師不管是他的退休金應該按照消費者物價指數聯動\n201661\t217051\t現在可以看到各個委員可能他有2%、3%、5%各個不同的版本但是他的出發點動機都是基於對於這些退休的教師們在整個物價上漲的過程裡面能夠讓他確保他的生活\n222555\t228539\t那另外大家都提到其實每一次從年改開始啊就在講說哎呀這會讓我們退府基金破產啊這是讓我們的這個政府財政更加惡化其實我聽到這些話我都覺得這是政府的推託之詞為什麼\n241187\t264856\t我們已經講過 比如說台電 台電現在的虧損不就是錯誤的能源政策嗎那只要你改變這個政策 台電就不需要一年虧兩千億 三千億啊我們整個這次的年改下來一億住到退府基金 這麼多年來退府一億住多少 也不過兩千多億啊你台電一年就會虧到兩千億以上耶\n265416\t289601\t一年就要虧到兩千以上另外 剛才我就在我們的隔壁國防外交委員會 質詢什麼呢我們國界國照海昆號一個海昆號 花將近五百億新台幣五百億 到現在仍然沒有辦法交件可是同一時間 日本的這個蒼金號下水\n291882\t309936\t148億不到150億所以我說我們幹嘛這樣子浪費納稅人的錢我們直接跟日本買好了 又可以下水而且呢 它的造價遠遠低於我們的造價我說算一算 你要造7艘可以節省將近1800億\n312097\t334973\t可以節省一千八百億 然後我們這樣一直搞 一直搞 一直搞花這麼多的錢 還不能刪喔不要說不能刪 還不能動喔所以我覺得這一點呢事實上我覺得不要再每一次用這種方式用這種方式好像一副你對於這些退休教士或退休公教人員好像他們就是拖垮政府財政你怎麼不去檢討這些 我剛才以上所述的\n335513\t351973\t另外一個 次長有一個很重要 剛才特別提到很重要 為什麼大家提到 要讓消費者物價指數去連動退休的教師我現在講現役的教師\n355277\t379218\t我們每一年消費者物價指數要漲多少我們的導師費我們的高中以下的導師費已經連續動漲13年之久啊所以為什麼大家不想當導師當導師其實責任很重大我不用再贅述了最近的教師荒\n380559\t409330\t其實就已經非常明顯年輕人也不想投入就算拿到教師證他也不要再去徵事了好那所以如果說我們其實我們照顧退休老師我們也應該去看現在的第一線的老師他碰到什麼樣的問題導師費動漲13年所以我想請問一下教育部這是很多我們的教師團體爭取教育部有沒有要\n409910\t435660\t準備研議改善是 謝謝委員的指導我想不僅是只有導師費包含幾位委員在關心終點費的問題目前教育部我們都已經有在評估了而且我們方向上是希望能夠爭取到支持把它調高那這塊我們現在也在收集意見跟考量校內不同職級的部分我想這塊是教育部教育部要期期 我告訴你\n438602\t464802\t明年教育部的預算是不是少很多是不是少很多我們都說窮不能窮孩子窮不能窮教育 苦不能苦孩子結果教育部因為國防的經費大幅的提高結果你們教育部相對的你看國教署就少了138億所以我要講的是我們其實應該花更多的資源在教育上而像我剛才說的你說終點費也是一樣\n467283\t493069\t導師費也是一樣現在真的像代理老師有很多代理老師現在嚴重缺乏願意代理一定現在可能代理十年以上啦然後代理老師還要去當導師對不對那薪水就已經很微薄然後導師費一個月只有三千塊所以我希望能夠你有一個期程你明年是不可能增加是嗎\n495441\t516131\t你現在還要等一年 一年多的我們其實經費的部分會減少其實不是我們使者減少而是因為財發法的一些分配問題但是如果說我們一旦決定要能夠調高導資費跟終點費的話我想教一部我們自己內部也會盡量沒有 所以次長你認為應不應該調高\n520835\t527299\t如果以我個人來講我身為三個小孩子的爸爸當然希望導師人這麼辛苦我是希望能夠盡量幫他們爭取\n529169\t550508\t我覺得如果大家都覺得應該要調了實在是時間那麼久不調不合理的時候我覺得應該做就要做該花的錢這個是我們該花的錢好不好我們會積極來爭取好不好我還是很希望說即便明年的預算沒有但是我們想什麼樣的方法\n552950\t563981\t來讓這些第一線的導師能夠他們得到合理的一個酬勞好不好好謝謝委員知道好謝謝王委員那接下來請范雲委員質詢\n","txt":"對 我們先處理會議時間那上午會議時間繼續進行到所有登記發言委員詢答結束為止好 請開始好 謝謝主席請教育部次長好 請朱次長我也請我們的權敘部次長好 請懷次長\n我先請教教育部就是這兩天大家非常關心的就是在一個清涵大學生他辦休學之後因為一萬八千塊錢的學雜費他選擇了輕生剛才也有委員來請教育次長但是我看次長所講的話\n比如說如果學校多問一句恐怕就不會發生或者說這個橫向聯繫有疏失感覺我們教育部看待這件事情千錯萬錯好像都是第一線校務人員的錯但是在制度面\n如果碰到這樣的一個清寒的學生不管他是需要救助也好或者是他因此而要辦理休學也好除了在我們第一線比如說這件事是學務處跟教務處橫向聯繫確實失靈但是在制度上我們教育部可以做任何的補強嗎\n是 謝謝委員提醒其實我們現在也有在思考上次趙偉也有跟我們指導就是說在他從高中升大學的時候因為我們對於中低收青函學生都有一些學長費的減免那如果是過去在高中有被介入或是一些處遇性的學生我們也有相關的一個資料我想這個部分我們應該更主動的而不是只有仰賴學校的一個橫向連結所以這一塊我們快來加強\n對 除了這個橫向聯繫就是學校的第一線的部分要加強之外其實包含剛才講的他從高中升大學他是不是仍然具有棄寒學生的一個身份或者是其實我們不管是公私立大學其實都有很多相關的救助而且應該讓所有的學生所有的學生都了解\n都了解說事實上當他覺得他走上一個絕路的時候其實只要他願意提出是可以得到有人伸出援手的所以我覺得這一點就是說可能很多學生他的一個資訊的落差跟封閉那所以我才說在制度上我們怎麼樣讓校園的捕獲網不要每一次在檢討的時候就會變成只是推向第一線的學校他們處理不當\n所以我覺得以後不要再發生這樣的事情請教育部能夠有一套比較清楚的這樣的一個制度另外呢 我想剛才也有很多的委員去詢問到我們這一次的對於退休教師不管是他的退休金應該按照消費者物價指數聯動\n現在可以看到各個委員可能他有2%、3%、5%各個不同的版本但是他的出發點動機都是基於對於這些退休的教師們在整個物價上漲的過程裡面能夠讓他確保他的生活\n那另外大家都提到其實每一次從年改開始啊就在講說哎呀這會讓我們退府基金破產啊這是讓我們的這個政府財政更加惡化其實我聽到這些話我都覺得這是政府的推託之詞為什麼\n我們已經講過 比如說台電 台電現在的虧損不就是錯誤的能源政策嗎那只要你改變這個政策 台電就不需要一年虧兩千億 三千億啊我們整個這次的年改下來一億住到退府基金 這麼多年來退府一億住多少 也不過兩千多億啊你台電一年就會虧到兩千億以上耶\n一年就要虧到兩千以上另外 剛才我就在我們的隔壁國防外交委員會 質詢什麼呢我們國界國照海昆號一個海昆號 花將近五百億新台幣五百億 到現在仍然沒有辦法交件可是同一時間 日本的這個蒼金號下水\n148億不到150億所以我說我們幹嘛這樣子浪費納稅人的錢我們直接跟日本買好了 又可以下水而且呢 它的造價遠遠低於我們的造價我說算一算 你要造7艘可以節省將近1800億\n可以節省一千八百億 然後我們這樣一直搞 一直搞 一直搞花這麼多的錢 還不能刪喔不要說不能刪 還不能動喔所以我覺得這一點呢事實上我覺得不要再每一次用這種方式用這種方式好像一副你對於這些退休教士或退休公教人員好像他們就是拖垮政府財政你怎麼不去檢討這些 我剛才以上所述的\n另外一個 次長有一個很重要 剛才特別提到很重要 為什麼大家提到 要讓消費者物價指數去連動退休的教師我現在講現役的教師\n我們每一年消費者物價指數要漲多少我們的導師費我們的高中以下的導師費已經連續動漲13年之久啊所以為什麼大家不想當導師當導師其實責任很重大我不用再贅述了最近的教師荒\n其實就已經非常明顯年輕人也不想投入就算拿到教師證他也不要再去徵事了好那所以如果說我們其實我們照顧退休老師我們也應該去看現在的第一線的老師他碰到什麼樣的問題導師費動漲13年所以我想請問一下教育部這是很多我們的教師團體爭取教育部有沒有要\n準備研議改善是 謝謝委員的指導我想不僅是只有導師費包含幾位委員在關心終點費的問題目前教育部我們都已經有在評估了而且我們方向上是希望能夠爭取到支持把它調高那這塊我們現在也在收集意見跟考量校內不同職級的部分我想這塊是教育部教育部要期期 我告訴你\n明年教育部的預算是不是少很多是不是少很多我們都說窮不能窮孩子窮不能窮教育 苦不能苦孩子結果教育部因為國防的經費大幅的提高結果你們教育部相對的你看國教署就少了138億所以我要講的是我們其實應該花更多的資源在教育上而像我剛才說的你說終點費也是一樣\n導師費也是一樣現在真的像代理老師有很多代理老師現在嚴重缺乏願意代理一定現在可能代理十年以上啦然後代理老師還要去當導師對不對那薪水就已經很微薄然後導師費一個月只有三千塊所以我希望能夠你有一個期程你明年是不可能增加是嗎\n你現在還要等一年 一年多的我們其實經費的部分會減少其實不是我們使者減少而是因為財發法的一些分配問題但是如果說我們一旦決定要能夠調高導資費跟終點費的話我想教一部我們自己內部也會盡量沒有 所以次長你認為應不應該調高\n如果以我個人來講我身為三個小孩子的爸爸當然希望導師人這麼辛苦我是希望能夠盡量幫他們爭取\n我覺得如果大家都覺得應該要調了實在是時間那麼久不調不合理的時候我覺得應該做就要做該花的錢這個是我們該花的錢好不好我們會積極來爭取好不好我還是很希望說即便明年的預算沒有但是我們想什麼樣的方法\n來讓這些第一線的導師能夠他們得到合理的一個酬勞好不好好謝謝委員知道好謝謝王委員那接下來請范雲委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.818 --> 00:18.186\n對我們先處理會議時間那上午會議時間繼續進行到所有登記發言委員詢答結束為止好請開始好謝謝主席請教育部次長好請朱次長我也請我們的權敘部次長好請懷次長\n\n00:24.386 --> 00:43.571\n我先請教教育部就是這兩天大家非常關心的就是在一個清涵大學生他辦休學之後因為一萬八千塊錢的學雜費他選擇了輕生剛才也有委員來請教育次長但是我看次長所講的話\n\n00:45.239 --> 01:03.785\n比如說如果學校多問一句恐怕就不會發生或者說這個橫向聯繫有疏失感覺我們教育部看待這件事情千錯萬錯好像都是第一線校務人員的錯但是在制度面\n\n01:04.705 --> 01:29.824\n如果碰到這樣的一個清寒的學生不管他是需要救助也好或者是他因此而要辦理休學也好除了在我們第一線比如說這件事是學務處跟教務處橫向聯繫確實失靈但是在制度上我們教育部可以做任何的補強嗎\n\n01:31.405 --> 01:58.304\n是謝謝委員提醒其實我們現在也有在思考上次趙偉也有跟我們指導就是說在他從高中升大學的時候因為我們對於中低收青函學生都有一些學長費的減免那如果是過去在高中有被介入或是一些處遇性的學生我們也有相關的一個資料我想這個部分我們應該更主動的而不是只有仰賴學校的一個橫向連結所以這一塊我們快來加強\n\n02:00.740 --> 02:24.665\n對除了這個橫向聯繫就是學校的第一線的部分要加強之外其實包含剛才講的他從高中升大學他是不是仍然具有棄寒學生的一個身份或者是其實我們不管是公私立大學其實都有很多相關的救助而且應該讓所有的學生所有的學生都了解\n\n02:25.165 --> 02:43.898\n都了解說事實上當他覺得他走上一個絕路的時候其實只要他願意提出是可以得到有人伸出援手的所以我覺得這一點就是說可能很多學生他的一個資訊的落差跟封閉那所以我才說在制度上我們怎麼樣讓校園的捕獲網不要每一次在檢討的時候就會變成只是推向第一線的學校他們處理不當\n\n02:55.066 --> 03:09.094\n所以我覺得以後不要再發生這樣的事情請教育部能夠有一套比較清楚的這樣的一個制度另外呢我想剛才也有很多的委員去詢問到我們這一次的對於退休教師不管是他的退休金應該按照消費者物價指數聯動\n\n03:21.661 --> 03:37.051\n現在可以看到各個委員可能他有2%、3%、5%各個不同的版本但是他的出發點動機都是基於對於這些退休的教師們在整個物價上漲的過程裡面能夠讓他確保他的生活\n\n03:42.555 --> 03:48.539\n那另外大家都提到其實每一次從年改開始啊就在講說哎呀這會讓我們退府基金破產啊這是讓我們的這個政府財政更加惡化其實我聽到這些話我都覺得這是政府的推託之詞為什麼\n\n04:01.187 --> 04:24.856\n我們已經講過比如說台電台電現在的虧損不就是錯誤的能源政策嗎那只要你改變這個政策台電就不需要一年虧兩千億三千億啊我們整個這次的年改下來一億住到退府基金這麼多年來退府一億住多少也不過兩千多億啊你台電一年就會虧到兩千億以上耶\n\n04:25.416 --> 04:49.601\n一年就要虧到兩千以上另外剛才我就在我們的隔壁國防外交委員會質詢什麼呢我們國界國照海昆號一個海昆號花將近五百億新台幣五百億到現在仍然沒有辦法交件可是同一時間日本的這個蒼金號下水\n\n04:51.882 --> 05:09.936\n148億不到150億所以我說我們幹嘛這樣子浪費納稅人的錢我們直接跟日本買好了又可以下水而且呢它的造價遠遠低於我們的造價我說算一算你要造7艘可以節省將近1800億\n\n05:12.097 --> 05:34.973\n可以節省一千八百億然後我們這樣一直搞一直搞一直搞花這麼多的錢還不能刪喔不要說不能刪還不能動喔所以我覺得這一點呢事實上我覺得不要再每一次用這種方式用這種方式好像一副你對於這些退休教士或退休公教人員好像他們就是拖垮政府財政你怎麼不去檢討這些我剛才以上所述的\n\n05:35.513 --> 05:51.973\n另外一個次長有一個很重要剛才特別提到很重要為什麼大家提到要讓消費者物價指數去連動退休的教師我現在講現役的教師\n\n05:55.277 --> 06:19.218\n我們每一年消費者物價指數要漲多少我們的導師費我們的高中以下的導師費已經連續動漲13年之久啊所以為什麼大家不想當導師當導師其實責任很重大我不用再贅述了最近的教師荒\n\n06:20.559 --> 06:49.330\n其實就已經非常明顯年輕人也不想投入就算拿到教師證他也不要再去徵事了好那所以如果說我們其實我們照顧退休老師我們也應該去看現在的第一線的老師他碰到什麼樣的問題導師費動漲13年所以我想請問一下教育部這是很多我們的教師團體爭取教育部有沒有要\n\n06:49.910 --> 07:15.660\n準備研議改善是謝謝委員的指導我想不僅是只有導師費包含幾位委員在關心終點費的問題目前教育部我們都已經有在評估了而且我們方向上是希望能夠爭取到支持把它調高那這塊我們現在也在收集意見跟考量校內不同職級的部分我想這塊是教育部教育部要期期我告訴你\n\n07:18.602 --> 07:44.802\n明年教育部的預算是不是少很多是不是少很多我們都說窮不能窮孩子窮不能窮教育苦不能苦孩子結果教育部因為國防的經費大幅的提高結果你們教育部相對的你看國教署就少了138億所以我要講的是我們其實應該花更多的資源在教育上而像我剛才說的你說終點費也是一樣\n\n07:47.283 --> 08:13.069\n導師費也是一樣現在真的像代理老師有很多代理老師現在嚴重缺乏願意代理一定現在可能代理十年以上啦然後代理老師還要去當導師對不對那薪水就已經很微薄然後導師費一個月只有三千塊所以我希望能夠你有一個期程你明年是不可能增加是嗎\n\n08:15.441 --> 08:36.131\n你現在還要等一年一年多的我們其實經費的部分會減少其實不是我們使者減少而是因為財發法的一些分配問題但是如果說我們一旦決定要能夠調高導資費跟終點費的話我想教一部我們自己內部也會盡量沒有所以次長你認為應不應該調高\n\n08:40.835 --> 08:47.299\n如果以我個人來講我身為三個小孩子的爸爸當然希望導師人這麼辛苦我是希望能夠盡量幫他們爭取\n\n08:49.169 --> 09:10.508\n我覺得如果大家都覺得應該要調了實在是時間那麼久不調不合理的時候我覺得應該做就要做該花的錢這個是我們該花的錢好不好我們會積極來爭取好不好我還是很希望說即便明年的預算沒有但是我們想什麼樣的方法\n\n09:12.950 --> 09:23.981\n來讓這些第一線的導師能夠他們得到合理的一個酬勞好不好好謝謝委員知道好謝謝王委員那接下來請范雲委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.818,"end":18.186,"text":"對 我們先處理會議時間那上午會議時間繼續進行到所有登記發言委員詢答結束為止好 請開始好 謝謝主席請教育部次長好 請朱次長我也請我們的權敘部次長好 請懷次長"},{"start":24.386,"end":43.571,"text":"我先請教教育部就是這兩天大家非常關心的就是在一個清涵大學生他辦休學之後因為一萬八千塊錢的學雜費他選擇了輕生剛才也有委員來請教育次長但是我看次長所講的話"},{"start":45.239,"end":63.785,"text":"比如說如果學校多問一句恐怕就不會發生或者說這個橫向聯繫有疏失感覺我們教育部看待這件事情千錯萬錯好像都是第一線校務人員的錯但是在制度面"},{"start":64.705,"end":89.824,"text":"如果碰到這樣的一個清寒的學生不管他是需要救助也好或者是他因此而要辦理休學也好除了在我們第一線比如說這件事是學務處跟教務處橫向聯繫確實失靈但是在制度上我們教育部可以做任何的補強嗎"},{"start":91.405,"end":118.304,"text":"是 謝謝委員提醒其實我們現在也有在思考上次趙偉也有跟我們指導就是說在他從高中升大學的時候因為我們對於中低收青函學生都有一些學長費的減免那如果是過去在高中有被介入或是一些處遇性的學生我們也有相關的一個資料我想這個部分我們應該更主動的而不是只有仰賴學校的一個橫向連結所以這一塊我們快來加強"},{"start":120.74,"end":144.665,"text":"對 除了這個橫向聯繫就是學校的第一線的部分要加強之外其實包含剛才講的他從高中升大學他是不是仍然具有棄寒學生的一個身份或者是其實我們不管是公私立大學其實都有很多相關的救助而且應該讓所有的學生所有的學生都了解"},{"start":145.165,"end":163.898,"text":"都了解說事實上當他覺得他走上一個絕路的時候其實只要他願意提出是可以得到有人伸出援手的所以我覺得這一點就是說可能很多學生他的一個資訊的落差跟封閉那所以我才說在制度上我們怎麼樣讓校園的捕獲網不要每一次在檢討的時候就會變成只是推向第一線的學校他們處理不當"},{"start":175.066,"end":189.094,"text":"所以我覺得以後不要再發生這樣的事情請教育部能夠有一套比較清楚的這樣的一個制度另外呢 我想剛才也有很多的委員去詢問到我們這一次的對於退休教師不管是他的退休金應該按照消費者物價指數聯動"},{"start":201.661,"end":217.051,"text":"現在可以看到各個委員可能他有2%、3%、5%各個不同的版本但是他的出發點動機都是基於對於這些退休的教師們在整個物價上漲的過程裡面能夠讓他確保他的生活"},{"start":222.555,"end":228.539,"text":"那另外大家都提到其實每一次從年改開始啊就在講說哎呀這會讓我們退府基金破產啊這是讓我們的這個政府財政更加惡化其實我聽到這些話我都覺得這是政府的推託之詞為什麼"},{"start":241.187,"end":264.856,"text":"我們已經講過 比如說台電 台電現在的虧損不就是錯誤的能源政策嗎那只要你改變這個政策 台電就不需要一年虧兩千億 三千億啊我們整個這次的年改下來一億住到退府基金 這麼多年來退府一億住多少 也不過兩千多億啊你台電一年就會虧到兩千億以上耶"},{"start":265.416,"end":289.601,"text":"一年就要虧到兩千以上另外 剛才我就在我們的隔壁國防外交委員會 質詢什麼呢我們國界國照海昆號一個海昆號 花將近五百億新台幣五百億 到現在仍然沒有辦法交件可是同一時間 日本的這個蒼金號下水"},{"start":291.882,"end":309.936,"text":"148億不到150億所以我說我們幹嘛這樣子浪費納稅人的錢我們直接跟日本買好了 又可以下水而且呢 它的造價遠遠低於我們的造價我說算一算 你要造7艘可以節省將近1800億"},{"start":312.097,"end":334.973,"text":"可以節省一千八百億 然後我們這樣一直搞 一直搞 一直搞花這麼多的錢 還不能刪喔不要說不能刪 還不能動喔所以我覺得這一點呢事實上我覺得不要再每一次用這種方式用這種方式好像一副你對於這些退休教士或退休公教人員好像他們就是拖垮政府財政你怎麼不去檢討這些 我剛才以上所述的"},{"start":335.513,"end":351.973,"text":"另外一個 次長有一個很重要 剛才特別提到很重要 為什麼大家提到 要讓消費者物價指數去連動退休的教師我現在講現役的教師"},{"start":355.277,"end":379.218,"text":"我們每一年消費者物價指數要漲多少我們的導師費我們的高中以下的導師費已經連續動漲13年之久啊所以為什麼大家不想當導師當導師其實責任很重大我不用再贅述了最近的教師荒"},{"start":380.559,"end":409.33,"text":"其實就已經非常明顯年輕人也不想投入就算拿到教師證他也不要再去徵事了好那所以如果說我們其實我們照顧退休老師我們也應該去看現在的第一線的老師他碰到什麼樣的問題導師費動漲13年所以我想請問一下教育部這是很多我們的教師團體爭取教育部有沒有要"},{"start":409.91,"end":435.66,"text":"準備研議改善是 謝謝委員的指導我想不僅是只有導師費包含幾位委員在關心終點費的問題目前教育部我們都已經有在評估了而且我們方向上是希望能夠爭取到支持把它調高那這塊我們現在也在收集意見跟考量校內不同職級的部分我想這塊是教育部教育部要期期 我告訴你"},{"start":438.602,"end":464.802,"text":"明年教育部的預算是不是少很多是不是少很多我們都說窮不能窮孩子窮不能窮教育 苦不能苦孩子結果教育部因為國防的經費大幅的提高結果你們教育部相對的你看國教署就少了138億所以我要講的是我們其實應該花更多的資源在教育上而像我剛才說的你說終點費也是一樣"},{"start":467.283,"end":493.069,"text":"導師費也是一樣現在真的像代理老師有很多代理老師現在嚴重缺乏願意代理一定現在可能代理十年以上啦然後代理老師還要去當導師對不對那薪水就已經很微薄然後導師費一個月只有三千塊所以我希望能夠你有一個期程你明年是不可能增加是嗎"},{"start":495.441,"end":516.131,"text":"你現在還要等一年 一年多的我們其實經費的部分會減少其實不是我們使者減少而是因為財發法的一些分配問題但是如果說我們一旦決定要能夠調高導資費跟終點費的話我想教一部我們自己內部也會盡量沒有 所以次長你認為應不應該調高"},{"start":520.835,"end":527.299,"text":"如果以我個人來講我身為三個小孩子的爸爸當然希望導師人這麼辛苦我是希望能夠盡量幫他們爭取"},{"start":529.169,"end":550.508,"text":"我覺得如果大家都覺得應該要調了實在是時間那麼久不調不合理的時候我覺得應該做就要做該花的錢這個是我們該花的錢好不好我們會積極來爭取好不好我還是很希望說即便明年的預算沒有但是我們想什麼樣的方法"},{"start":552.95,"end":563.981,"text":"來讓這些第一線的導師能夠他們得到合理的一個酬勞好不好好謝謝委員知道好謝謝王委員那接下來請范雲委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":718,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時49分）謝謝主席，請教育部次長。"],["主席：請朱次長。"],["朱次長俊彰：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：我也請銓敘部次長。"],["主席：請懷次長。"],["懷次長敍：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：我先請教教育部，這兩天大家非常關心的是，一個清寒大學生辦休學之後，因為1萬8,000塊錢的學雜費，他選擇了輕生。剛才也有委員就教於次長，但是我看次長所講的話，比如說，如果學校多問一句，恐怕就不會發生，或者說橫向聯繫有疏失，感覺教育部看待這件事情，千錯萬錯好像都是第一線校務人員的錯，但是在制度面，如果碰到清寒的學生，不管他是需要救助也好，或者是他因此而要辦理休學也好，除了在第一線，比如這件事是學務處跟教務處橫向聯繫確實失靈，但是在制度上，教育部可以做任何的補強嗎？"],["朱次長俊彰：謝謝委員提醒。其實我們現在也有在思考，上次召委也有跟我們指導，就是在高中升大學的時候，因為我們對於中低收清寒學生都有一些學雜費的減免，如果是過去在高中有被介入，或是一些處遇性的學生，我們也有相關的資料。我想這個部分我們應該更主動，而不是只有仰賴學校的橫向連結，所以這一塊我們會來加強。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，除了橫向聯繫，就是第一線學校的部分要加強之外，其實包含剛剛講的，他從高中升大學是不是仍然具有清寒學生的身分？或者是其實公私立大學都有很多相關的救助，而且應該讓所有的學生都了解，事實上，當他覺得他得走上絕路的時候，只要他願意提出，是有人會伸出援手的。"],["朱次長俊彰：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：我覺得這一點可能有很多學生資訊落差跟封閉，所以我才說在制度上，我們怎麼樣讓校園的補破網？不要每一次在檢討的時候，就會變成只是推向第一線的學校說他們處理不當，所以我覺得以後不要再發生這樣的事情，請教育部能夠有一套比較清楚的制度。"],["朱次長俊彰：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：好。另外，剛才也有很多委員詢問到這一次對於退休教師的退休金應該按照消費者物價指數連動，現在可以看到各個委員的提案，可能有2%、3%、5%不同的版本，但是出發點、動機都是基於在整個物價上漲的過程裡面，能夠確保這些退休的教師們的生活。另外，大家都提到，其實每一次從年改開始就在說，哎呀，這會讓退撫基金破產、政府財政更加惡化，其實我聽到這些話都覺得是政府的推託之詞，為什麼？我們已經講過，比如台電現在的虧損不就是錯誤的能源政策嗎？只要你改變這個政策，台電就不需要一年虧2,000億、3,000億啊！這一次的年改下來挹注到退撫基金，這麼多年來挹注多少？也不過兩千多億啊！台電一年就要虧到2,000億以上、一年就要虧到2,000億以上！","另外，剛才我在隔壁的外交及國防委員會質詢什麼呢？國艦國造海鯤號，一個海鯤號花將近500億，新臺幣500億，到現在仍然沒有辦法交艦，可是同一時間日本的蒼鯨號下水，只要148億、不到150億，所以我說我們幹嘛這樣子浪費納稅人的錢？我們直接跟日本買好了，又可以下水而且造價遠遠低於我們的。我說算一算，你要造7艘，可以節省將近1,800億、可以節省1,800億！然後我們這樣一直搞、一直搞、一直搞，花這麼多的錢還不能刪，不要說不能刪，還不能凍！對於這一點，事實上我覺得不要再每次用這種方式，用這種方式好像一副就是這些退休教師或退休公教人員拖垮政府財政，那你怎麼不去檢討以上所述的這些？","此外，請教教育部次長，有一個很重要的是，剛才特別提到這個很重要，為什麼大家提到要讓退休教師的年金連動消費者物價指數？好，我現在講現役的教師，每一年消費者物價指數要漲多少？高中以下的導師費已經連續凍漲13年之久，為什麼大家不想當導師？當導師其實責任很重大，我不用再贅述了，最近的教師荒其實就已經非常明顯，年輕人也不想投入，就算拿到教師證也不要再去甄試了。如果我們要照顧退休老師，也應該去看現在第一線的老師碰到什麼樣的問題，導師費凍漲13年，這是很多教師團體爭取的，所以我想請問一下，教育部有沒有要準備研議改善？"],["朱次長俊彰：謝謝委員的指導，我想不僅是只有導師費，包含幾位委員也在關心鐘點費的問題，目前教育部都已經有在評估了，而且我們方向上是希望能夠爭取到支持把它調高，這一塊我們現在也在蒐集意見，跟考量校內不同職級的部分，我想這塊是教育部要爭取的。"],["王委員鴻薇：教育部要積極。明年教育部的預算是不是少很多？是不是少很多？我們都說窮不能窮教育，苦不能苦孩子，教育部因為國防的經費大幅提高，結果相對的教育部國教署就少了138億。我要講的是我們其實應該花更多的資源在教育上，而像我剛才說的導師費、你說鐘點費也是一樣。現在代理老師真的嚴重缺乏，願意代理的現在可能都代理10年以上了，然後代理老師還要去當導師，對不對？薪水就已經很微薄了，導師費一個月只有3,000塊，所以我希望你能夠有一個期程，明年是不可能增加的，是嗎？這樣還要等一年多！"],["朱次長俊彰：經費的部分會減少其實不是我們實質減少，而是因為財劃法的一些分配問題，一旦我們決定要能夠調高導師費跟鐘點費，我想教育部自己內部也會儘量移緩濟急。"],["王委員鴻薇：沒有，次長，你認為應不應該調高？"],["朱次長俊彰：如果以我個人來講，我身為三個小孩子的爸爸，導師這麼辛苦，我是希望能夠儘量幫他們爭取。"],["王委員鴻薇：對嘛！如果大家都覺得應該要調了，實在是時間那麼久，不調不合理的時候，我覺得應該做就要做，這個是我們該花的錢，好嗎？"],["朱次長俊彰：好，我們會積極來爭取，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：好不好？我還是很希望即便明年預算沒有，但是我們想個什麼樣的方法讓這些第一線的導師能夠得到他們合理的酬勞，好不好？"],["朱次長俊彰：好，謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","接下來請范雲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1","speakers":["翁曉玲","賴士葆","張智倫","許宇甄","黃健豪","林倩綺","黃國昌","王義川","柯志恩","陳培瑜","萬美玲","劉書彬","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","林宜瑾","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","王鴻薇","范雲","黃建賓","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","吳沛憶","葉元之","陳秀寳","沈發惠","謝龍介","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","吳宗憲","傅崐萁"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草\n案」案；( 二) 國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案；(三)委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條\n文修正草案」案；(四)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條\n文修正草案」案；(五)委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(六)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(七)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n部分條文修正草案」案；(八)委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(九)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(十)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1148601_00002"}}}