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577.291, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 577.291, \"end\": 577.311, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,464 --> 00:00:13,645\n謝謝主席讓我們有請國發會主委我們再請葉主委委員長主委主委長\n\n2\n00:00:24,704 --> 00:00:53,405\n主委那今天是你第一次到我們委員會來接受備詢那我想國安會深具的就是國家整個發展的一些重責大任所以國安會對於所有產業或者是所有關於到人民的一些基本福利的一些照顧這個是國安會責無旁貸的責任那事實上我想要跟主委聊的就是說我們都知道\n\n3\n00:00:54,105 --> 00:01:09,877\n那台灣現在整個產業呈現的是非常的兩極也就是說如果是在AI是在晶片的相關的產業鏈那大概是一片龍井但是在這個龍井之外其他的產業大概\n\n4\n00:01:11,158 --> 00:01:37,633\n看起來就沒有這樣的一個盛況看起來現在的除了科技產業外其他的產業現在是辛苦的那這個辛苦的來自於台灣的缺工問題因為少子化的問題因為台灣人台灣年輕學子他們就業選擇的問題讓整個缺工是越來越嚴重所以我事實上也整理了一些數據的一個資料那我們看到說\n\n5\n00:01:38,493 --> 00:01:59,415\n基本上如果以這個趨勢來看的話台灣的這樣的一個勞動力的一個人口會越來越少大概每年會減少18萬的一個勞動力所以要怎麼去補這樣勞動力的一個缺口這個是我們國發會必須要認真去思考的問題那我想請教我們主委你怎麼去看待這件事情\n\n6\n00:02:00,211 --> 00:02:29,591\n台湾缺工的问题就有如委员说的是非常严重那尤其是在55岁以上的那个劳餐率这个部分来讲的话相对的也不是一个很那个数字看起来不是很漂亮然后我国的那个虽然说最近这几年那个中高龄的那个劳餐有呈现上升的现象但55岁以上的那个比例仍然比日本韩国新加坡跟美国都还要低而且年龄越高的话那差距越大\n\n7\n00:02:30,191 --> 00:02:54,162\n那在这边我们会建议就是说可能会希望就是说能够完善法令跟活化那个劳动力那这个部分的话会希望就是说提早让那个协商就是劳资双方提早协商那个延后退休这个部分那另外一个就是重新设计工作内容那提供在地全时或者是部分工时的一些工作\n\n8\n00:02:54,582 --> 00:03:14,882\n我想跟主委來說啦事實上台灣人在就業選擇的話因為現在已經是一個全球市場所以事實上很多人他事實上他在選擇工作的時候他可能在網路上就可以工作所以他可能所以就是說我同樣的我付出我的時間那我未必是要變受僱於人\n\n9\n00:03:15,442 --> 00:03:35,295\n有這樣的一個趨勢這個也是說台灣在應應全球化的趨勢的時候我們的台灣人有跟上這樣的腳步但是呢傳統的工作工作也要有人做包括3K產業包括我們現在跟目前為止都沒有開放的就像是餐飲服務業\n\n10\n00:03:36,978 --> 00:03:55,326\n餐飲服務業這一塊沒有開放事實上對於我們整個在推就是說這種基層的服務業我們台灣在目前腳步是走不出去走不出去我們擔心我們當然是擔心說這個會取代了本勞台灣的自己的就業機會\n\n11\n00:03:56,747 --> 00:04:10,895\n但是我覺得我們台灣我們事實上就是接近日本跟韓國日本跟韓國他們開放餐飲業跟旅宿業服務業事實上也已經心知有念了而且韓國甚至還會針對這一些\n\n12\n00:04:14,097 --> 00:04:32,106\n移工到韓國他還要設一個培訓機構而且甚至要先用考試的讓他先先做一個篩選然後讓他進來我覺得台灣事實上某些程度上我們為了讓整個產業事實上可以補足他的這個勞動力缺口我覺得至少在這一塊我們應該\n\n13\n00:04:34,407 --> 00:04:57,521\n就對在走啦韓國日本總是他們的民族性跟我們比較相仿嘛你如果說我們歐美可能我們那些調性會比較不一樣民族性看起來日韓我們經濟發展的趨勢也是差不多所以事實上這個腳步是可以跟著走的也不是我們台灣先創但是這個我覺得國發會已經考慮看了好不好\n\n14\n00:04:59,762 --> 00:05:17,152\n因為現在國發會我們這邊也在考慮說那個橋外生是不是可以慢慢的迎接進來所謂的旅宿業那在那個工作項目這個部分就工作範疇的話我們也希望說能夠開放中階技術的這些工作給橋外生\n\n15\n00:05:17,532 --> 00:05:43,097\n那我们也会持续的就是利用专案媒合旅宿业的一些所需的人力那也会补助旅宿业的一些来做招募人力的一个需要那最重要就是我们会希望说利用一些科技的辅助来降低这些旅宿业的那个人力需求当然当然就是说科技进步有一些是可以用透过AI透过机器人来进一代但是很多传统的\n\n16\n00:05:44,877 --> 00:05:54,941\n勞動還是需要人力還是需要人勒你想說我認識一個專門就在在現場的渡假肉在萬華很有名的一家他也是沒人欠沒人渡假肉渡假肉這個動作\n\n17\n00:06:00,863 --> 00:06:16,279\n沒辦法用其他東西來取代還是要人力啊是是是好不好那事實上也要去檢討就是說事實上我們也規定說一家僱主他聘用外國人的一個上限我們過去就把它規定是50%那我覺得這個50%這個也是可以檢討\n\n18\n00:06:19,202 --> 00:06:33,915\n是不是在四度上如果他這個產業他真的都是可能是山械產業他可能是比較偏向重牢力的這一種的話我是覺得這可以檢討因為我們可以台灣人可以說我們站在\n\n19\n00:06:35,977 --> 00:06:53,379\n看領導階層的如果真的要付出勞力的這個50%這個數字是否需要到檢討的時候了我覺得這國安會應該要去思考看看目前勞動部其實正在規劃重新調整這個移工的比例跟配合限制還有他的機制\n\n20\n00:06:54,560 --> 00:07:19,474\n對我知道現在有在檢討所以我可能就想把這些問題說給你聽那第二個主委我想在短短的時間再跟你聊一個我們知道現在長照對現在第一少子化第二也是高齡化所以現在老人家的照顧一直是一個家庭非常重要的事情那如果他的現在有可能一些子女他可能\n\n21\n00:07:21,718 --> 00:07:36,917\n但是他可能沒有他工作的時間上他沒有辦法去照顧他的父母所以他可能選擇要讓他的父母到機構去接受衛福部所謂的一個機構的一個照顧的話那目前就針對我們針對這一個\n\n22\n00:07:40,782 --> 00:07:50,333\n比方說評估等級4級以上或者是身心障礙中度以上的部分我們市場政府有補助在過去112年的時候我們把6萬塊拉到12萬這個很好\n\n23\n00:07:55,619 --> 00:08:12,347\n這個很好但是我想要跟主委講兩個狀況第一個就是說到底機構的收費狀況是如何以我現在看起來啦真的最少最少的差不多2萬5啦平均都差不多3萬5那裡服務比較好的有可能到4、5萬所以我說最少最少2萬5那我們補助12萬就是一個月補助1萬\n\n24\n00:08:23,372 --> 00:08:37,584\n事實上我覺得這個可以去檢討一件事情我覺得國發會可以去做就是說我們這個補助如果可以適度的提高你在配合他們有的年金現在最普遍的老人家可能他的老人今天就是8000塊\n\n25\n00:08:39,565 --> 00:09:02,902\n那如果我們補助適度提高可以到現在兩萬五的這樣的一個養護型的一個等級他的子女不用再負擔費用老人家可以靠自己的年輕家鄉政府的幫忙他就可以去機構住事實上可以減少很多需要被照顧的獨居老人在家裡他們缺少照顧而且去機構至少會有個陪伴\n\n26\n00:09:03,823 --> 00:09:11,618\n這件事我覺得政府也可以去考慮是不是適度來提高過去從6萬到12萬12萬有沒有可能再提高\n\n27\n00:09:13,015 --> 00:09:37,311\n因為這個是衛福部是主責但我們會跟衛福部來演講這件事太宗民意就說事實上整個政策的擬定都是國安會在抓所以主委你身責大任現在雖然是經濟委員會我一直很想講這個議題所以我在這裡還是跟主委去學了這議題國安會是不是可以站在你們抓政策的角度這個部分也來檢討一下好不好好感謝謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11464\t13645\t謝謝主席 讓我們有請國發會主委我們再請葉主委委員長主委主委長\n24704\t53405\t主委那今天是你第一次到我們委員會來接受備詢那我想國安會深具的就是國家整個發展的一些重責大任所以國安會對於所有產業或者是所有關於到人民的一些基本福利的一些照顧這個是國安會責無旁貸的責任那事實上我想要跟主委聊的就是說我們都知道\n54105\t69877\t那台灣現在整個產業呈現的是非常的兩極也就是說如果是在AI是在晶片的相關的產業鏈那大概是一片龍井但是在這個龍井之外其他的產業大概\n71158\t97633\t看起來就沒有這樣的一個盛況看起來現在的除了科技產業外其他的產業現在是辛苦的那這個辛苦的來自於台灣的缺工問題因為少子化的問題因為台灣人台灣年輕學子他們就業選擇的問題讓整個缺工是越來越嚴重所以我事實上也整理了一些數據的一個資料那我們看到說\n98493\t119415\t基本上如果以這個趨勢來看的話台灣的這樣的一個勞動力的一個人口會越來越少大概每年會減少18萬的一個勞動力所以要怎麼去補這樣勞動力的一個缺口這個是我們國發會必須要認真去思考的問題那我想請教我們主委你怎麼去看待這件事情\n120211\t149591\t台湾缺工的问题就有如委员说的是非常严重那尤其是在55岁以上的那个劳餐率这个部分来讲的话相对的也不是一个很那个数字看起来不是很漂亮然后我国的那个虽然说最近这几年那个中高龄的那个劳餐有呈现上升的现象但55岁以上的那个比例仍然比日本韩国新加坡跟美国都还要低而且年龄越高的话那差距越大\n150191\t174162\t那在这边我们会建议就是说可能会希望就是说能够完善法令跟活化那个劳动力那这个部分的话会希望就是说提早让那个协商就是劳资双方提早协商那个延后退休这个部分那另外一个就是重新设计工作内容那提供在地全时或者是部分工时的一些工作\n174582\t194882\t我想跟主委來說啦事實上台灣人在就業選擇的話因為現在已經是一個全球市場所以事實上很多人他事實上他在選擇工作的時候他可能在網路上就可以工作所以他可能所以就是說我同樣的我付出我的時間那我未必是要變受僱於人\n195442\t215295\t有這樣的一個趨勢這個也是說台灣在應應全球化的趨勢的時候我們的台灣人有跟上這樣的腳步但是呢傳統的工作工作也要有人做包括3K產業包括我們現在跟目前為止都沒有開放的就像是餐飲服務業\n216978\t235326\t餐飲服務業這一塊沒有開放事實上對於我們整個在推就是說這種基層的服務業我們台灣在目前腳步是走不出去走不出去我們擔心我們當然是擔心說這個會取代了本勞台灣的自己的就業機會\n236747\t250895\t但是我覺得我們台灣我們事實上就是接近日本跟韓國日本跟韓國他們開放餐飲業跟旅宿業服務業事實上也已經心知有念了而且韓國甚至還會針對這一些\n254097\t272106\t移工到韓國他還要設一個培訓機構而且甚至要先用考試的讓他先先做一個篩選然後讓他進來我覺得台灣事實上某些程度上我們為了讓整個產業事實上可以補足他的這個勞動力缺口我覺得至少在這一塊我們應該\n274407\t297521\t就對在走啦 韓國 日本總是他們的民族性跟我們比較相仿嘛 你如果說我們歐美可能我們那些調性會比較不一樣民族性看起來日韓 我們經濟發展的趨勢也是差不多所以事實上這個腳步是可以跟著走的 也不是我們台灣先創但是這個 我覺得國發會已經考慮看了好不好\n299762\t317152\t因為現在國發會我們這邊也在考慮說那個橋外生是不是可以慢慢的迎接進來所謂的旅宿業那在那個工作項目這個部分就工作範疇的話我們也希望說能夠開放中階技術的這些工作給橋外生\n317532\t343097\t那我们也会持续的就是利用专案媒合旅宿业的一些所需的人力那也会补助旅宿业的一些来做招募人力的一个需要那最重要就是我们会希望说利用一些科技的辅助来降低这些旅宿业的那个人力需求当然当然就是说科技进步有一些是可以用透过AI透过机器人来进一代但是很多传统的\n344877\t354941\t勞動還是需要人力還是需要人勒你想說我認識一個專門就在在現場的渡假肉在萬華很有名的一家他也是沒人欠沒人渡假肉渡假肉這個動作\n360863\t376279\t沒辦法用其他東西來取代還是要人力啊是是是好不好那事實上也要去檢討就是說事實上我們也規定說一家僱主他聘用外國人的一個上限我們過去就把它規定是50%那我覺得這個50%這個也是可以檢討\n379202\t393915\t是不是在四度上如果他這個產業他真的都是可能是山械產業他可能是比較偏向重牢力的這一種的話我是覺得這可以檢討因為我們可以台灣人可以說我們站在\n395977\t413379\t看領導階層的如果真的要付出勞力的這個50%這個數字是否需要到檢討的時候了我覺得這國安會應該要去思考看看目前勞動部其實正在規劃重新調整這個移工的比例跟配合限制還有他的機制\n414560\t439474\t對我知道現在有在檢討所以我可能就想把這些問題說給你聽那第二個主委我想在短短的時間再跟你聊一個我們知道現在長照對現在第一少子化第二也是高齡化所以現在老人家的照顧一直是一個家庭非常重要的事情那如果他的現在有可能一些子女他可能\n441718\t456917\t但是他可能沒有他工作的時間上他沒有辦法去照顧他的父母所以他可能選擇要讓他的父母到機構去接受衛福部所謂的一個機構的一個照顧的話那目前就針對我們針對這一個\n460782\t470333\t比方說評估等級4級以上或者是身心障礙中度以上的部分我們市場政府有補助在過去112年的時候我們把6萬塊拉到12萬這個很好\n475619\t492347\t這個很好 但是我想要跟主委講兩個狀況第一個就是說 到底機構的收費狀況是如何以我現在看起來啦 真的最少最少的差不多2萬5啦平均都差不多3萬5那裡 服務比較好的有可能到4、5萬所以我說最少最少2萬5那我們補助12萬 就是一個月補助1萬\n503372\t517584\t事實上我覺得這個可以去檢討一件事情我覺得國發會可以去做就是說我們這個補助如果可以適度的提高你在配合他們有的年金現在最普遍的老人家可能他的老人今天就是8000塊\n519565\t542902\t那如果我們補助適度提高可以到現在兩萬五的這樣的一個養護型的一個等級他的子女不用再負擔費用老人家可以靠自己的年輕家鄉政府的幫忙他就可以去機構住事實上可以減少很多需要被照顧的獨居老人在家裡他們缺少照顧而且去機構至少會有個陪伴\n543823\t551618\t這件事我覺得政府也可以去考慮是不是適度來提高過去從6萬到12萬12萬有沒有可能再提高\n553015\t577311\t因為這個是衛福部是主責但我們會跟衛福部來演講這件事太宗民意就說事實上整個政策的擬定都是國安會在抓所以主委你身責大任現在雖然是經濟委員會我一直很想講這個議題所以我在這裡還是跟主委去學了這議題國安會是不是可以站在你們抓政策的角度這個部分也來檢討一下 好不好好 感謝 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 讓我們有請國發會主委我們再請葉主委委員長主委主委長\n主委那今天是你第一次到我們委員會來接受備詢那我想國安會深具的就是國家整個發展的一些重責大任所以國安會對於所有產業或者是所有關於到人民的一些基本福利的一些照顧這個是國安會責無旁貸的責任那事實上我想要跟主委聊的就是說我們都知道\n那台灣現在整個產業呈現的是非常的兩極也就是說如果是在AI是在晶片的相關的產業鏈那大概是一片龍井但是在這個龍井之外其他的產業大概\n看起來就沒有這樣的一個盛況看起來現在的除了科技產業外其他的產業現在是辛苦的那這個辛苦的來自於台灣的缺工問題因為少子化的問題因為台灣人台灣年輕學子他們就業選擇的問題讓整個缺工是越來越嚴重所以我事實上也整理了一些數據的一個資料那我們看到說\n基本上如果以這個趨勢來看的話台灣的這樣的一個勞動力的一個人口會越來越少大概每年會減少18萬的一個勞動力所以要怎麼去補這樣勞動力的一個缺口這個是我們國發會必須要認真去思考的問題那我想請教我們主委你怎麼去看待這件事情\n台湾缺工的问题就有如委员说的是非常严重那尤其是在55岁以上的那个劳餐率这个部分来讲的话相对的也不是一个很那个数字看起来不是很漂亮然后我国的那个虽然说最近这几年那个中高龄的那个劳餐有呈现上升的现象但55岁以上的那个比例仍然比日本韩国新加坡跟美国都还要低而且年龄越高的话那差距越大\n那在这边我们会建议就是说可能会希望就是说能够完善法令跟活化那个劳动力那这个部分的话会希望就是说提早让那个协商就是劳资双方提早协商那个延后退休这个部分那另外一个就是重新设计工作内容那提供在地全时或者是部分工时的一些工作\n我想跟主委來說啦事實上台灣人在就業選擇的話因為現在已經是一個全球市場所以事實上很多人他事實上他在選擇工作的時候他可能在網路上就可以工作所以他可能所以就是說我同樣的我付出我的時間那我未必是要變受僱於人\n有這樣的一個趨勢這個也是說台灣在應應全球化的趨勢的時候我們的台灣人有跟上這樣的腳步但是呢傳統的工作工作也要有人做包括3K產業包括我們現在跟目前為止都沒有開放的就像是餐飲服務業\n餐飲服務業這一塊沒有開放事實上對於我們整個在推就是說這種基層的服務業我們台灣在目前腳步是走不出去走不出去我們擔心我們當然是擔心說這個會取代了本勞台灣的自己的就業機會\n但是我覺得我們台灣我們事實上就是接近日本跟韓國日本跟韓國他們開放餐飲業跟旅宿業服務業事實上也已經心知有念了而且韓國甚至還會針對這一些\n移工到韓國他還要設一個培訓機構而且甚至要先用考試的讓他先先做一個篩選然後讓他進來我覺得台灣事實上某些程度上我們為了讓整個產業事實上可以補足他的這個勞動力缺口我覺得至少在這一塊我們應該\n就對在走啦 韓國 日本總是他們的民族性跟我們比較相仿嘛 你如果說我們歐美可能我們那些調性會比較不一樣民族性看起來日韓 我們經濟發展的趨勢也是差不多所以事實上這個腳步是可以跟著走的 也不是我們台灣先創但是這個 我覺得國發會已經考慮看了好不好\n因為現在國發會我們這邊也在考慮說那個橋外生是不是可以慢慢的迎接進來所謂的旅宿業那在那個工作項目這個部分就工作範疇的話我們也希望說能夠開放中階技術的這些工作給橋外生\n那我们也会持续的就是利用专案媒合旅宿业的一些所需的人力那也会补助旅宿业的一些来做招募人力的一个需要那最重要就是我们会希望说利用一些科技的辅助来降低这些旅宿业的那个人力需求当然当然就是说科技进步有一些是可以用透过AI透过机器人来进一代但是很多传统的\n勞動還是需要人力還是需要人勒你想說我認識一個專門就在在現場的渡假肉在萬華很有名的一家他也是沒人欠沒人渡假肉渡假肉這個動作\n沒辦法用其他東西來取代還是要人力啊是是是好不好那事實上也要去檢討就是說事實上我們也規定說一家僱主他聘用外國人的一個上限我們過去就把它規定是50%那我覺得這個50%這個也是可以檢討\n是不是在四度上如果他這個產業他真的都是可能是山械產業他可能是比較偏向重牢力的這一種的話我是覺得這可以檢討因為我們可以台灣人可以說我們站在\n看領導階層的如果真的要付出勞力的這個50%這個數字是否需要到檢討的時候了我覺得這國安會應該要去思考看看目前勞動部其實正在規劃重新調整這個移工的比例跟配合限制還有他的機制\n對我知道現在有在檢討所以我可能就想把這些問題說給你聽那第二個主委我想在短短的時間再跟你聊一個我們知道現在長照對現在第一少子化第二也是高齡化所以現在老人家的照顧一直是一個家庭非常重要的事情那如果他的現在有可能一些子女他可能\n但是他可能沒有他工作的時間上他沒有辦法去照顧他的父母所以他可能選擇要讓他的父母到機構去接受衛福部所謂的一個機構的一個照顧的話那目前就針對我們針對這一個\n比方說評估等級4級以上或者是身心障礙中度以上的部分我們市場政府有補助在過去112年的時候我們把6萬塊拉到12萬這個很好\n這個很好 但是我想要跟主委講兩個狀況第一個就是說 到底機構的收費狀況是如何以我現在看起來啦 真的最少最少的差不多2萬5啦平均都差不多3萬5那裡 服務比較好的有可能到4、5萬所以我說最少最少2萬5那我們補助12萬 就是一個月補助1萬\n事實上我覺得這個可以去檢討一件事情我覺得國發會可以去做就是說我們這個補助如果可以適度的提高你在配合他們有的年金現在最普遍的老人家可能他的老人今天就是8000塊\n那如果我們補助適度提高可以到現在兩萬五的這樣的一個養護型的一個等級他的子女不用再負擔費用老人家可以靠自己的年輕家鄉政府的幫忙他就可以去機構住事實上可以減少很多需要被照顧的獨居老人在家裡他們缺少照顧而且去機構至少會有個陪伴\n這件事我覺得政府也可以去考慮是不是適度來提高過去從6萬到12萬12萬有沒有可能再提高\n因為這個是衛福部是主責但我們會跟衛福部來演講這件事太宗民意就說事實上整個政策的擬定都是國安會在抓所以主委你身責大任現在雖然是經濟委員會我一直很想講這個議題所以我在這裡還是跟主委去學了這議題國安會是不是可以站在你們抓政策的角度這個部分也來檢討一下 好不好好 感謝 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.464 --> 00:13.645\n謝謝主席讓我們有請國發會主委我們再請葉主委委員長主委主委長\n\n00:24.704 --> 00:53.405\n主委那今天是你第一次到我們委員會來接受備詢那我想國安會深具的就是國家整個發展的一些重責大任所以國安會對於所有產業或者是所有關於到人民的一些基本福利的一些照顧這個是國安會責無旁貸的責任那事實上我想要跟主委聊的就是說我們都知道\n\n00:54.105 --> 01:09.877\n那台灣現在整個產業呈現的是非常的兩極也就是說如果是在AI是在晶片的相關的產業鏈那大概是一片龍井但是在這個龍井之外其他的產業大概\n\n01:11.158 --> 01:37.633\n看起來就沒有這樣的一個盛況看起來現在的除了科技產業外其他的產業現在是辛苦的那這個辛苦的來自於台灣的缺工問題因為少子化的問題因為台灣人台灣年輕學子他們就業選擇的問題讓整個缺工是越來越嚴重所以我事實上也整理了一些數據的一個資料那我們看到說\n\n01:38.493 --> 01:59.415\n基本上如果以這個趨勢來看的話台灣的這樣的一個勞動力的一個人口會越來越少大概每年會減少18萬的一個勞動力所以要怎麼去補這樣勞動力的一個缺口這個是我們國發會必須要認真去思考的問題那我想請教我們主委你怎麼去看待這件事情\n\n02:00.211 --> 02:29.591\n台湾缺工的问题就有如委员说的是非常严重那尤其是在55岁以上的那个劳餐率这个部分来讲的话相对的也不是一个很那个数字看起来不是很漂亮然后我国的那个虽然说最近这几年那个中高龄的那个劳餐有呈现上升的现象但55岁以上的那个比例仍然比日本韩国新加坡跟美国都还要低而且年龄越高的话那差距越大\n\n02:30.191 --> 02:54.162\n那在这边我们会建议就是说可能会希望就是说能够完善法令跟活化那个劳动力那这个部分的话会希望就是说提早让那个协商就是劳资双方提早协商那个延后退休这个部分那另外一个就是重新设计工作内容那提供在地全时或者是部分工时的一些工作\n\n02:54.582 --> 03:14.882\n我想跟主委來說啦事實上台灣人在就業選擇的話因為現在已經是一個全球市場所以事實上很多人他事實上他在選擇工作的時候他可能在網路上就可以工作所以他可能所以就是說我同樣的我付出我的時間那我未必是要變受僱於人\n\n03:15.442 --> 03:35.295\n有這樣的一個趨勢這個也是說台灣在應應全球化的趨勢的時候我們的台灣人有跟上這樣的腳步但是呢傳統的工作工作也要有人做包括3K產業包括我們現在跟目前為止都沒有開放的就像是餐飲服務業\n\n03:36.978 --> 03:55.326\n餐飲服務業這一塊沒有開放事實上對於我們整個在推就是說這種基層的服務業我們台灣在目前腳步是走不出去走不出去我們擔心我們當然是擔心說這個會取代了本勞台灣的自己的就業機會\n\n03:56.747 --> 04:10.895\n但是我覺得我們台灣我們事實上就是接近日本跟韓國日本跟韓國他們開放餐飲業跟旅宿業服務業事實上也已經心知有念了而且韓國甚至還會針對這一些\n\n04:14.097 --> 04:32.106\n移工到韓國他還要設一個培訓機構而且甚至要先用考試的讓他先先做一個篩選然後讓他進來我覺得台灣事實上某些程度上我們為了讓整個產業事實上可以補足他的這個勞動力缺口我覺得至少在這一塊我們應該\n\n04:34.407 --> 04:57.521\n就對在走啦韓國日本總是他們的民族性跟我們比較相仿嘛你如果說我們歐美可能我們那些調性會比較不一樣民族性看起來日韓我們經濟發展的趨勢也是差不多所以事實上這個腳步是可以跟著走的也不是我們台灣先創但是這個我覺得國發會已經考慮看了好不好\n\n04:59.762 --> 05:17.152\n因為現在國發會我們這邊也在考慮說那個橋外生是不是可以慢慢的迎接進來所謂的旅宿業那在那個工作項目這個部分就工作範疇的話我們也希望說能夠開放中階技術的這些工作給橋外生\n\n05:17.532 --> 05:43.097\n那我们也会持续的就是利用专案媒合旅宿业的一些所需的人力那也会补助旅宿业的一些来做招募人力的一个需要那最重要就是我们会希望说利用一些科技的辅助来降低这些旅宿业的那个人力需求当然当然就是说科技进步有一些是可以用透过AI透过机器人来进一代但是很多传统的\n\n05:44.877 --> 05:54.941\n勞動還是需要人力還是需要人勒你想說我認識一個專門就在在現場的渡假肉在萬華很有名的一家他也是沒人欠沒人渡假肉渡假肉這個動作\n\n06:00.863 --> 06:16.279\n沒辦法用其他東西來取代還是要人力啊是是是好不好那事實上也要去檢討就是說事實上我們也規定說一家僱主他聘用外國人的一個上限我們過去就把它規定是50%那我覺得這個50%這個也是可以檢討\n\n06:19.202 --> 06:33.915\n是不是在四度上如果他這個產業他真的都是可能是山械產業他可能是比較偏向重牢力的這一種的話我是覺得這可以檢討因為我們可以台灣人可以說我們站在\n\n06:35.977 --> 06:53.379\n看領導階層的如果真的要付出勞力的這個50%這個數字是否需要到檢討的時候了我覺得這國安會應該要去思考看看目前勞動部其實正在規劃重新調整這個移工的比例跟配合限制還有他的機制\n\n06:54.560 --> 07:19.474\n對我知道現在有在檢討所以我可能就想把這些問題說給你聽那第二個主委我想在短短的時間再跟你聊一個我們知道現在長照對現在第一少子化第二也是高齡化所以現在老人家的照顧一直是一個家庭非常重要的事情那如果他的現在有可能一些子女他可能\n\n07:21.718 --> 07:36.917\n但是他可能沒有他工作的時間上他沒有辦法去照顧他的父母所以他可能選擇要讓他的父母到機構去接受衛福部所謂的一個機構的一個照顧的話那目前就針對我們針對這一個\n\n07:40.782 --> 07:50.333\n比方說評估等級4級以上或者是身心障礙中度以上的部分我們市場政府有補助在過去112年的時候我們把6萬塊拉到12萬這個很好\n\n07:55.619 --> 08:12.347\n這個很好但是我想要跟主委講兩個狀況第一個就是說到底機構的收費狀況是如何以我現在看起來啦真的最少最少的差不多2萬5啦平均都差不多3萬5那裡服務比較好的有可能到4、5萬所以我說最少最少2萬5那我們補助12萬就是一個月補助1萬\n\n08:23.372 --> 08:37.584\n事實上我覺得這個可以去檢討一件事情我覺得國發會可以去做就是說我們這個補助如果可以適度的提高你在配合他們有的年金現在最普遍的老人家可能他的老人今天就是8000塊\n\n08:39.565 --> 09:02.902\n那如果我們補助適度提高可以到現在兩萬五的這樣的一個養護型的一個等級他的子女不用再負擔費用老人家可以靠自己的年輕家鄉政府的幫忙他就可以去機構住事實上可以減少很多需要被照顧的獨居老人在家裡他們缺少照顧而且去機構至少會有個陪伴\n\n09:03.823 --> 09:11.618\n這件事我覺得政府也可以去考慮是不是適度來提高過去從6萬到12萬12萬有沒有可能再提高\n\n09:13.015 --> 09:37.311\n因為這個是衛福部是主責但我們會跟衛福部來演講這件事太宗民意就說事實上整個政策的擬定都是國安會在抓所以主委你身責大任現在雖然是經濟委員會我一直很想講這個議題所以我在這裡還是跟主委去學了這議題國安會是不是可以站在你們抓政策的角度這個部分也來檢討一下好不好好感謝謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.464,"end":13.645,"text":"謝謝主席 讓我們有請國發會主委我們再請葉主委委員長主委主委長"},{"start":24.704,"end":53.405,"text":"主委那今天是你第一次到我們委員會來接受備詢那我想國安會深具的就是國家整個發展的一些重責大任所以國安會對於所有產業或者是所有關於到人民的一些基本福利的一些照顧這個是國安會責無旁貸的責任那事實上我想要跟主委聊的就是說我們都知道"},{"start":54.105,"end":69.877,"text":"那台灣現在整個產業呈現的是非常的兩極也就是說如果是在AI是在晶片的相關的產業鏈那大概是一片龍井但是在這個龍井之外其他的產業大概"},{"start":71.158,"end":97.633,"text":"看起來就沒有這樣的一個盛況看起來現在的除了科技產業外其他的產業現在是辛苦的那這個辛苦的來自於台灣的缺工問題因為少子化的問題因為台灣人台灣年輕學子他們就業選擇的問題讓整個缺工是越來越嚴重所以我事實上也整理了一些數據的一個資料那我們看到說"},{"start":98.493,"end":119.415,"text":"基本上如果以這個趨勢來看的話台灣的這樣的一個勞動力的一個人口會越來越少大概每年會減少18萬的一個勞動力所以要怎麼去補這樣勞動力的一個缺口這個是我們國發會必須要認真去思考的問題那我想請教我們主委你怎麼去看待這件事情"},{"start":120.211,"end":149.591,"text":"台湾缺工的问题就有如委员说的是非常严重那尤其是在55岁以上的那个劳餐率这个部分来讲的话相对的也不是一个很那个数字看起来不是很漂亮然后我国的那个虽然说最近这几年那个中高龄的那个劳餐有呈现上升的现象但55岁以上的那个比例仍然比日本韩国新加坡跟美国都还要低而且年龄越高的话那差距越大"},{"start":150.191,"end":174.162,"text":"那在这边我们会建议就是说可能会希望就是说能够完善法令跟活化那个劳动力那这个部分的话会希望就是说提早让那个协商就是劳资双方提早协商那个延后退休这个部分那另外一个就是重新设计工作内容那提供在地全时或者是部分工时的一些工作"},{"start":174.582,"end":194.882,"text":"我想跟主委來說啦事實上台灣人在就業選擇的話因為現在已經是一個全球市場所以事實上很多人他事實上他在選擇工作的時候他可能在網路上就可以工作所以他可能所以就是說我同樣的我付出我的時間那我未必是要變受僱於人"},{"start":195.442,"end":215.295,"text":"有這樣的一個趨勢這個也是說台灣在應應全球化的趨勢的時候我們的台灣人有跟上這樣的腳步但是呢傳統的工作工作也要有人做包括3K產業包括我們現在跟目前為止都沒有開放的就像是餐飲服務業"},{"start":216.978,"end":235.326,"text":"餐飲服務業這一塊沒有開放事實上對於我們整個在推就是說這種基層的服務業我們台灣在目前腳步是走不出去走不出去我們擔心我們當然是擔心說這個會取代了本勞台灣的自己的就業機會"},{"start":236.747,"end":250.895,"text":"但是我覺得我們台灣我們事實上就是接近日本跟韓國日本跟韓國他們開放餐飲業跟旅宿業服務業事實上也已經心知有念了而且韓國甚至還會針對這一些"},{"start":254.097,"end":272.106,"text":"移工到韓國他還要設一個培訓機構而且甚至要先用考試的讓他先先做一個篩選然後讓他進來我覺得台灣事實上某些程度上我們為了讓整個產業事實上可以補足他的這個勞動力缺口我覺得至少在這一塊我們應該"},{"start":274.407,"end":297.521,"text":"就對在走啦 韓國 日本總是他們的民族性跟我們比較相仿嘛 你如果說我們歐美可能我們那些調性會比較不一樣民族性看起來日韓 我們經濟發展的趨勢也是差不多所以事實上這個腳步是可以跟著走的 也不是我們台灣先創但是這個 我覺得國發會已經考慮看了好不好"},{"start":299.762,"end":317.152,"text":"因為現在國發會我們這邊也在考慮說那個橋外生是不是可以慢慢的迎接進來所謂的旅宿業那在那個工作項目這個部分就工作範疇的話我們也希望說能夠開放中階技術的這些工作給橋外生"},{"start":317.532,"end":343.097,"text":"那我们也会持续的就是利用专案媒合旅宿业的一些所需的人力那也会补助旅宿业的一些来做招募人力的一个需要那最重要就是我们会希望说利用一些科技的辅助来降低这些旅宿业的那个人力需求当然当然就是说科技进步有一些是可以用透过AI透过机器人来进一代但是很多传统的"},{"start":344.877,"end":354.941,"text":"勞動還是需要人力還是需要人勒你想說我認識一個專門就在在現場的渡假肉在萬華很有名的一家他也是沒人欠沒人渡假肉渡假肉這個動作"},{"start":360.863,"end":376.279,"text":"沒辦法用其他東西來取代還是要人力啊是是是好不好那事實上也要去檢討就是說事實上我們也規定說一家僱主他聘用外國人的一個上限我們過去就把它規定是50%那我覺得這個50%這個也是可以檢討"},{"start":379.202,"end":393.915,"text":"是不是在四度上如果他這個產業他真的都是可能是山械產業他可能是比較偏向重牢力的這一種的話我是覺得這可以檢討因為我們可以台灣人可以說我們站在"},{"start":395.977,"end":413.379,"text":"看領導階層的如果真的要付出勞力的這個50%這個數字是否需要到檢討的時候了我覺得這國安會應該要去思考看看目前勞動部其實正在規劃重新調整這個移工的比例跟配合限制還有他的機制"},{"start":414.56,"end":439.474,"text":"對我知道現在有在檢討所以我可能就想把這些問題說給你聽那第二個主委我想在短短的時間再跟你聊一個我們知道現在長照對現在第一少子化第二也是高齡化所以現在老人家的照顧一直是一個家庭非常重要的事情那如果他的現在有可能一些子女他可能"},{"start":441.718,"end":456.917,"text":"但是他可能沒有他工作的時間上他沒有辦法去照顧他的父母所以他可能選擇要讓他的父母到機構去接受衛福部所謂的一個機構的一個照顧的話那目前就針對我們針對這一個"},{"start":460.782,"end":470.333,"text":"比方說評估等級4級以上或者是身心障礙中度以上的部分我們市場政府有補助在過去112年的時候我們把6萬塊拉到12萬這個很好"},{"start":475.619,"end":492.347,"text":"這個很好 但是我想要跟主委講兩個狀況第一個就是說 到底機構的收費狀況是如何以我現在看起來啦 真的最少最少的差不多2萬5啦平均都差不多3萬5那裡 服務比較好的有可能到4、5萬所以我說最少最少2萬5那我們補助12萬 就是一個月補助1萬"},{"start":503.372,"end":517.584,"text":"事實上我覺得這個可以去檢討一件事情我覺得國發會可以去做就是說我們這個補助如果可以適度的提高你在配合他們有的年金現在最普遍的老人家可能他的老人今天就是8000塊"},{"start":519.565,"end":542.902,"text":"那如果我們補助適度提高可以到現在兩萬五的這樣的一個養護型的一個等級他的子女不用再負擔費用老人家可以靠自己的年輕家鄉政府的幫忙他就可以去機構住事實上可以減少很多需要被照顧的獨居老人在家裡他們缺少照顧而且去機構至少會有個陪伴"},{"start":543.823,"end":551.618,"text":"這件事我覺得政府也可以去考慮是不是適度來提高過去從6萬到12萬12萬有沒有可能再提高"},{"start":553.015,"end":577.311,"text":"因為這個是衛福部是主責但我們會跟衛福部來演講這件事太宗民意就說事實上整個政策的擬定都是國安會在抓所以主委你身責大任現在雖然是經濟委員會我一直很想講這個議題所以我在這裡還是跟主委去學了這議題國安會是不是可以站在你們抓政策的角度這個部分也來檢討一下 好不好好 感謝 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":688,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時59分）謝謝主席，我們是不是有請國發會主委？"],["主席：我們再請葉主委。"],["葉主任委員俊顯：委員早。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委早。主委，今天是你第一次到我們委員會來接受備詢，我想國發會肩負的是整個國家發展的重責大任，所以國發會對於所有產業，或者是所有關於到人民基本福利的一些照顧，這些都是國發會責無旁貸的責任。事實上，我想要跟主委聊的就是說，我們都知道，臺灣現在整個產業呈現的狀況非常兩極，也就是說，如果是在AI、晶片的相關產業鏈，大概就是一片榮景，但是在這個榮景之外，其他產業大概就沒有這樣的盛況，除了科技產業之外，其他產業現在就是辛苦的。這個辛苦來自臺灣的缺工問題，因為少子化問題和臺灣年輕學子就業選擇的問題，讓整個缺工越來越嚴重。我整理了一些數據資料，基本上如果以這個趨勢來看的話，臺灣勞動力人口會越來越少，大概每年會減少18萬的勞動力，所以要怎麼樣去補這個勞動力缺口是國發會必須認真思考的問題。我想請教主委，你怎麼看待這件事情呢？"],["葉主任委員俊顯：臺灣缺工的問題就如委員說的非常嚴重，尤其是以55歲以上的勞參率來講，相對的數字看起來也不是很漂亮，雖然最近這幾年中高齡的勞參率有呈現上升的現象，但55歲以上的比例仍然比日本、韓國、新加坡跟美國都還要低，而且年齡越高，差距越大。在這邊我們會建議，希望能夠完善法令和活化勞動力，讓勞資雙方提早協商延後退休，另外就是重新設計工作內容，提供在地全時或部分工時的一些工作。"],["蔡委員易餘：我想跟主委說，事實上臺灣人在就業選擇上，因為現在已經是全球市場，很多人可能在網路上就可以工作，所以，同樣付出自己的時間，未必要受僱於人，有這樣的趨勢。這也是臺灣人在因應全球化趨勢時，有跟上這樣的腳步，但是傳統的工作還是要有人做，包括3K產業和到目前為止都沒開放的餐飲服務業。餐飲服務業這一塊沒有開放，對於我們整個在推……就是這種基層服務業，臺灣目前的腳步是走不出去的，我們當然是擔心這個會取代本勞、臺灣自己的就業機會，但是我覺得我們臺灣應該借鏡日本跟韓國。日本和韓國開放餐飲業、旅宿業、服務業已行之有年，而且韓國甚至還會針對移工設立一個培訓機構，先用考試的方式進行篩選，之後才讓他們進去。","我覺得臺灣在某些程度上為了讓整個產業可以補足它的勞動力缺口，至少要在這一塊跟著走。韓國、日本的民族性總是跟我們比較相仿，如果是歐美，可能調性就比較不一樣。除了民族性以外，我們和日、韓的經濟發展趨勢也差不多，所以事實上這個腳步是可以跟著走的，並不是我們臺灣先創。這部分請國發會考慮看看，好不好？"],["葉主任委員俊顯：好。現在我們也有在考慮僑外生是不是可以慢慢地引介到旅宿業，在工作項目、工作範疇的部分，我們也希望能夠開放中階技術的工作給僑外生，同時我們也會持續利用專案，媒合旅宿業所需人力，也會補助旅宿業人力招募之所需，最重要的就是我們希望利用一些科技輔助來降低旅宿業的人力需求。"],["蔡委員易餘：當然，科技進步，有一些工作可以透過AI、透過機器人來替代，但是很多傳統的勞動還是需要人力。"],["葉主任委員俊顯：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：譬如我認識萬華一家很有名的專門在現場剁雞肉的，他們也請不到人來剁雞肉。剁雞肉這個動作就沒辦法用其他東西來取代，還是要人力。"],["葉主任委員俊顯：當然。"],["蔡委員易餘：事實上也要去檢討，因為我們有規定一個雇主聘用外國人的上限，過去是50%，我覺得50%也是可以檢討的，如果這個產業真的是3K產業、偏向重勞力的，我是覺得可以檢討，因為臺灣人是領導階層，如果真的是要付出勞力的，50%這個數字是否到需要檢討的時候了？我覺得國發會應該要去思考看看。"],["葉主任委員俊顯：目前勞動部正在規劃重新調整移工比例、配額限制還有它的機制。"],["蔡委員易餘：我知道現在有在檢討，所以我想把這些問題說給你聽。"],["葉主任委員俊顯：好。"],["蔡委員易餘：接下來，我想在這個短短的時間內再跟你聊一個問題，我們知道現在第一是少子化，第二是高齡化，所以現在老人家的照顧是一個家庭非常重要的事情。但是子女可能因為自己的工作時間，沒有辦法照顧父母，所以可能選擇要讓他們到機構去接受衛福部所謂的機構照顧的話，目前針對評估等級四級以上，或者是身心障礙中度以上的部分，政府是有補助的，而且在112年的時候，把6萬元拉到12萬，這個很好。但是我想要跟主委講兩個狀況，第一個就是到底機構的收費狀況是如何？根據我現在打聽的結果，最便宜的差不多是兩萬五，平均是三萬五左右，如果是服務比較好的，有可能會到四、五萬。","如果以最便宜的兩萬五來講，補助12萬就是一個月補助1萬，對於這個狀況，我覺得國發會可以去檢討一件事情，就是這個補助如果可以適度提高，再配合他們的年金，現在最普遍的老人家，他的老農津貼可能就是8,000元，如果我們把補助適度提高，可以到現在兩萬五的養護型的等級，讓子女不用再負擔費用，老人家就可以靠自己的年金加上政府的幫忙去機構住，這樣事實上可以減少很多需要被照顧的獨居老人在家裡缺少照顧的現象，而且去機構至少會有個陪伴，這件事情我覺得政府也可以去考慮適度予以提高，過去從6萬調整到12萬，現在有沒有可能再提高？"],["葉主任委員俊顯：這部分衛福部是主責單位，但是我們會跟衛福部來研商這件事情。"],["蔡委員易餘：我開宗明義就說，整個政策的擬定都是國發會在抓，所以主委身負重任。這裡雖然是經濟委員會，但我一直很想講這個議題，所以我在這裡還是跟主委提出來，請問國發會是不是可以站在你們抓政策的角度，針對這個部分檢討一下？好不好？"],["葉主任委員俊顯：好。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請王鴻薇、王鴻薇委員，王鴻薇委員不在現場。","請徐富癸委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-5","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鄭正鈐","陳超明","黃國昌","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","徐富癸","劉建國","林楚茵"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148601_00001"}}}