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--> 00:00:30,641\n謝謝主席有請教育部朱次長還有權敘部鄭淑芬退福斯司長還有行政院主計總署的基金預算處謝謝好麻煩請列席官員上台謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:33,069 --> 00:00:52,221\n好三位長官好本席其實一直以來都有在關心關於教職員或公務人員的一些權益那多年來來到立法院也經常遇到一些單位團體會來辦公室跟我們討論\n\n3\n00:00:53,602 --> 00:01:18,053\n那我自己曾經在上一屆就是112年的時候有參與過公務人員退休子序撫恤辦法第39條以及公立學校教職員退休資金撫恤條例第98條的修法那總統呢也公告了那之後就是說要一退撫基金財務精算的結果來分年編列預算來撥補\n\n4\n00:01:19,814 --> 00:01:42,963\n但是上路以來其實像以全教總來講他們其實是感到還蠻失望的所以我也有就這個部分來找三個部會一起的討論那我其實還是要講因為這個退府新制上路之後它最大的差別就是它現在不進入大水庫它是屬於個人專戶制\n\n5\n00:01:43,963 --> 00:02:12,520\n所以呢這個基金撥補更顯得重要那大家的擔憂也是說之前已經有年改的經驗說會破產那如果不按照這樣子做那未來是不是還會面臨二次年改這樣的一個可能性所以其實我們的第一線的公務人員也好或公教人其實他們都非常的擔憂那我在這裡呢就是想要問一下因為如果說要依法來做\n\n6\n00:02:13,260 --> 00:02:42,323\n退府基金委員會的第八次精算報告它是這麼寫的它是說每年至少撥補194億元要20年那權序部這邊是更細就是提到說分10年會怎麼樣分15年會怎麼樣分20年怎麼樣所以看起來最優最省最好的方案是分10年撥補因為可以減少\n\n7\n00:02:43,084 --> 00:02:56,262\n少花710億元那教育部的部分我倒是沒有看到但是我想先請教一下就是教育部全序部就是這個部分114年就是撥補的狀況\n\n8\n00:02:58,453 --> 00:03:13,609\n是跟我們報告因為根據精算確實我們需要如果是分10年是1360那如果是分20年是1660那我們現在今年的部分我們是有編的74億明年會有92億15會有92億來投入撥補那請問一下92億是分幾年\n\n9\n00:03:21,007 --> 00:03:32,810\n我們目前是以其實部裡面我們是希望爭取用10年但是目前是以20年的方式所以是用20年那請教一下那個全序部\n\n10\n00:03:34,564 --> 00:03:59,538\n這個部分因為新制上路以後我們部裡面是一直希望都是爭取用10年的撥補歷年都是用10年的撥補方案去編列概算但是因為國家有它政策支出的決定所以目前也是跟教育部一樣在今年經過核列的額度是用20年的方式來編是核定為120億\n\n11\n00:04:00,999 --> 00:04:09,511\n好那聽起來就是教育部權序部都是希望用十年好那請教一下那個主總\n\n12\n00:04:15,086 --> 00:04:36,008\n因為最後也是就是整個財政最後盤點的結果那就是因為這個就是我們持續撥補那但是考量到E5的整個支付的狀況還是採用20年部分就是所以意思就是說合計的話是如果用20年\n\n13\n00:04:38,248 --> 00:04:52,927\n所以20年這個狀況是在明年會發生嗎20年撥補是明年的狀況嗎只是用20年這個基礎來談題後年呢這個我們還是每年在編預算會在滾動檢討那我剛才聽到的是說因為財政的問題我們財政有問題\n\n14\n00:04:55,249 --> 00:05:07,915\n因為最後15整個盤點最後的稅入稅出的結果部分那這部分我們先用20年的基礎來做談題那明年就是每一年的那個財政收支會不一樣那可能還是可以再做滾動的\n\n15\n00:05:09,198 --> 00:05:33,543\n那我再請教一下因為我們修法之後他是寫說因一退府基金財務精算結果接續分年編列預算撥補現行的退府基金是嗎我們修法是這麼寫的條文是這麼寫的所以現在是因為退府基金委員會的精算報告是說因每年至少撥補194億元達20年是按照這個嗎\n\n16\n00:05:42,451 --> 00:06:11,589\n這部分還是有分三種那我最後還是用20年的部分先來那請教一下後年呢這可能還要看明年籌編總預算的時候再一起考慮所以我們其實沒有辦法因為修法之後有一個固定的數字有一個固定的做法是這樣嗎修法的部分可能如果說法是明定的話那當然是依法\n\n17\n00:06:12,270 --> 00:06:15,071\n那現在怎麼辦那我們未來到底該怎麼做好那沒有關係因為時間的關係我只是說我們希望能夠按照精算的一個數額來撥補\n\n18\n00:06:35,745 --> 00:06:57,377\n因為好不容易就修法啦總統也公告啦那這個部分我是希望說這個部分因為我們有看到啦114年編列194億就是公教的部分120億教師的部分74億啦那就是才20年的撥補啦所以呢我們希望說這個撥補數遠遠的不足\n\n19\n00:06:59,838 --> 00:07:17,571\n那我們也希望說為了要防度未來就是因為這樣修法那就是為了要防度破產的可能避免二次年改我們還是要求說希望我們的主總能夠正視這個問題那也能夠提出一個報告可以嗎至少讓我們了解你們未來的做法好這個\n\n20\n00:07:27,593 --> 00:07:47,140\n好那我回到今天排審的主席再給我一分鐘那因為我們最重要的修法重點就是要按限職人員的待遇希望能夠調升提高然後也希望按物價指數來調整所以我想要請教一下就是教育部還有組總就是對於基金的財務狀況會有沒有什麼樣的影響\n\n21\n00:07:52,672 --> 00:08:10,110\n確實如果說要做調整他必須還是會考慮到整個基金的一個財務的問題還有跟現值人員的差異的問題以及他是不是有一個保障合理性的問題所以這三個部分都要一併做考量\n\n22\n00:08:10,390 --> 00:08:33,332\n因為其實如果按照這兩個訴求像加薪3%嘛然後按著物價指數調整都是很正常的啦那重點是小小的調整大家會大大的有感啦所以我是想說就這個部分可不可以提供一個影響評估的一個書面報告就是組總跟教育部還有那個組總跟教育部可以嗎\n\n23\n00:08:35,094 --> 00:08:47,601\n是委員是針對兩個部分嘛對針對那個修法的重點可以嗎至少我們要知道他的一個影響評估報告可以喔好謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11122\t30641\t謝謝主席 有請教育部 朱次長還有權敘部 鄭淑芬 退福斯司長還有行政院主計總署的基金預算處 謝謝好 麻煩請列席官員上台 謝謝\n33069\t52221\t好 三位長官好本席其實一直以來都有在關心關於教職員或公務人員的一些權益那多年來來到立法院也經常遇到一些單位團體會來辦公室跟我們討論\n53602\t78053\t那我自己曾經在上一屆就是112年的時候有參與過公務人員退休子序撫恤辦法第39條以及公立學校教職員退休資金撫恤條例第98條的修法那總統呢也公告了那之後就是說要一退撫基金財務精算的結果來分年編列預算來撥補\n79814\t102963\t但是上路以來其實像以全教總來講他們其實是感到還蠻失望的所以我也有就這個部分來找三個部會一起的討論那我其實還是要講因為這個退府新制上路之後它最大的差別就是它現在不進入大水庫它是屬於個人專戶制\n103963\t132520\t所以呢這個基金撥補更顯得重要那大家的擔憂也是說之前已經有年改的經驗說會破產那如果不按照這樣子做那未來是不是還會面臨二次年改這樣的一個可能性所以其實我們的第一線的公務人員也好或公教人其實他們都非常的擔憂那我在這裡呢就是想要問一下因為如果說要依法來做\n133260\t162323\t退府基金委員會的第八次精算報告它是這麼寫的它是說每年至少撥補194億元要20年那權序部這邊是更細就是提到說分10年會怎麼樣分15年會怎麼樣分20年怎麼樣所以看起來最優最省最好的方案是分10年撥補因為可以減少\n163084\t176262\t少花710億元那教育部的部分我倒是沒有看到但是我想先請教一下就是教育部全序部就是這個部分114年就是撥補的狀況\n178453\t193609\t是跟我們報告因為根據精算確實我們需要如果是分10年是1360那如果是分20年是1660那我們現在今年的部分我們是有編的74億明年會有92億15會有92億來投入撥補那請問一下92億是分幾年\n201007\t212810\t我們目前是以其實部裡面我們是希望爭取用10年但是目前是以20年的方式所以是用20年那請教一下那個全序部\n214564\t239538\t這個部分因為新制上路以後我們部裡面是一直希望都是爭取用10年的撥補歷年都是用10年的撥補方案去編列概算但是因為國家有它政策支出的決定所以目前也是跟教育部一樣在今年經過核列的額度是用20年的方式來編是核定為120億\n240999\t249511\t好 那聽起來就是教育部 權序部都是希望用十年好 那請教一下那個主總\n255086\t276008\t因為最後也是就是整個財政最後盤點的結果那就是因為這個就是我們持續撥補那但是考量到E5的整個支付的狀況還是採用20年部分就是所以意思就是說合計的話是如果用20年\n278248\t292927\t所以20年這個狀況是在明年會發生嗎20年撥補是明年的狀況嗎只是用20年這個基礎來談題後年呢這個我們還是每年在編預算會在滾動檢討那我剛才聽到的是說因為財政的問題我們財政有問題\n295249\t307915\t因為最後15整個盤點最後的稅入稅出的結果部分那這部分我們先用20年的基礎來做談題那明年就是每一年的那個財政收支會不一樣那可能還是可以再做滾動的\n309198\t333543\t那我再請教一下因為我們修法之後他是寫說因一退府基金財務精算結果接續分年編列預算撥補現行的退府基金是嗎我們修法是這麼寫的條文是這麼寫的所以現在是因為退府基金委員會的精算報告是說因每年至少撥補194億元達20年是按照這個嗎\n342451\t371589\t這部分還是有分三種那我最後還是用20年的部分先來那請教一下後年呢這可能還要看明年籌編總預算的時候再一起考慮所以我們其實沒有辦法因為修法之後有一個固定的數字有一個固定的做法是這樣嗎修法的部分可能如果說法是明定的話那當然是依法\n372270\t375071\t那現在怎麼辦 那我們未來到底該怎麼做好 那沒有關係 因為時間的關係我只是說 我們希望能夠按照精算的一個數額來撥補\n395745\t417377\t因為好不容易就修法啦總統也公告啦那這個部分我是希望說這個部分因為我們有看到啦114年編列194億就是公教的部分120億教師的部分74億啦那就是才20年的撥補啦所以呢我們希望說這個撥補數遠遠的不足\n419838\t437571\t那我們也希望說為了要防度未來就是因為這樣修法那就是為了要防度破產的可能避免二次年改我們還是要求說希望我們的主總能夠正視這個問題那也能夠提出一個報告可以嗎至少讓我們了解你們未來的做法好 這個\n447593\t467140\t好那我回到今天排審的主席再給我一分鐘那因為我們最重要的修法重點就是要按限職人員的待遇希望能夠調升提高然後也希望按物價指數來調整所以我想要請教一下就是教育部還有組總就是對於基金的財務狀況會有沒有什麼樣的影響\n472672\t490110\t確實如果說要做調整他必須還是會考慮到整個基金的一個財務的問題還有跟現值人員的差異的問題以及他是不是有一個保障合理性的問題所以這三個部分都要一併做考量\n490390\t513332\t因為其實如果按照這兩個訴求像加薪3%嘛然後按著物價指數調整都是很正常的啦那重點是小小的調整大家會大大的有感啦所以我是想說就這個部分可不可以提供一個影響評估的一個書面報告就是組總跟教育部還有那個組總跟教育部可以嗎\n515094\t527601\t是 委員是針對兩個部分嘛對 針對那個修法的重點可以嗎 至少我們要知道他的一個影響評估報告可以喔好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席謝謝委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請教育部 朱次長還有權敘部 鄭淑芬 退福斯司長還有行政院主計總署的基金預算處 謝謝好 麻煩請列席官員上台 謝謝\n好 三位長官好本席其實一直以來都有在關心關於教職員或公務人員的一些權益那多年來來到立法院也經常遇到一些單位團體會來辦公室跟我們討論\n那我自己曾經在上一屆就是112年的時候有參與過公務人員退休子序撫恤辦法第39條以及公立學校教職員退休資金撫恤條例第98條的修法那總統呢也公告了那之後就是說要一退撫基金財務精算的結果來分年編列預算來撥補\n但是上路以來其實像以全教總來講他們其實是感到還蠻失望的所以我也有就這個部分來找三個部會一起的討論那我其實還是要講因為這個退府新制上路之後它最大的差別就是它現在不進入大水庫它是屬於個人專戶制\n所以呢這個基金撥補更顯得重要那大家的擔憂也是說之前已經有年改的經驗說會破產那如果不按照這樣子做那未來是不是還會面臨二次年改這樣的一個可能性所以其實我們的第一線的公務人員也好或公教人其實他們都非常的擔憂那我在這裡呢就是想要問一下因為如果說要依法來做\n退府基金委員會的第八次精算報告它是這麼寫的它是說每年至少撥補194億元要20年那權序部這邊是更細就是提到說分10年會怎麼樣分15年會怎麼樣分20年怎麼樣所以看起來最優最省最好的方案是分10年撥補因為可以減少\n少花710億元那教育部的部分我倒是沒有看到但是我想先請教一下就是教育部全序部就是這個部分114年就是撥補的狀況\n是跟我們報告因為根據精算確實我們需要如果是分10年是1360那如果是分20年是1660那我們現在今年的部分我們是有編的74億明年會有92億15會有92億來投入撥補那請問一下92億是分幾年\n我們目前是以其實部裡面我們是希望爭取用10年但是目前是以20年的方式所以是用20年那請教一下那個全序部\n這個部分因為新制上路以後我們部裡面是一直希望都是爭取用10年的撥補歷年都是用10年的撥補方案去編列概算但是因為國家有它政策支出的決定所以目前也是跟教育部一樣在今年經過核列的額度是用20年的方式來編是核定為120億\n好 那聽起來就是教育部 權序部都是希望用十年好 那請教一下那個主總\n因為最後也是就是整個財政最後盤點的結果那就是因為這個就是我們持續撥補那但是考量到E5的整個支付的狀況還是採用20年部分就是所以意思就是說合計的話是如果用20年\n所以20年這個狀況是在明年會發生嗎20年撥補是明年的狀況嗎只是用20年這個基礎來談題後年呢這個我們還是每年在編預算會在滾動檢討那我剛才聽到的是說因為財政的問題我們財政有問題\n因為最後15整個盤點最後的稅入稅出的結果部分那這部分我們先用20年的基礎來做談題那明年就是每一年的那個財政收支會不一樣那可能還是可以再做滾動的\n那我再請教一下因為我們修法之後他是寫說因一退府基金財務精算結果接續分年編列預算撥補現行的退府基金是嗎我們修法是這麼寫的條文是這麼寫的所以現在是因為退府基金委員會的精算報告是說因每年至少撥補194億元達20年是按照這個嗎\n這部分還是有分三種那我最後還是用20年的部分先來那請教一下後年呢這可能還要看明年籌編總預算的時候再一起考慮所以我們其實沒有辦法因為修法之後有一個固定的數字有一個固定的做法是這樣嗎修法的部分可能如果說法是明定的話那當然是依法\n那現在怎麼辦 那我們未來到底該怎麼做好 那沒有關係 因為時間的關係我只是說 我們希望能夠按照精算的一個數額來撥補\n因為好不容易就修法啦總統也公告啦那這個部分我是希望說這個部分因為我們有看到啦114年編列194億就是公教的部分120億教師的部分74億啦那就是才20年的撥補啦所以呢我們希望說這個撥補數遠遠的不足\n那我們也希望說為了要防度未來就是因為這樣修法那就是為了要防度破產的可能避免二次年改我們還是要求說希望我們的主總能夠正視這個問題那也能夠提出一個報告可以嗎至少讓我們了解你們未來的做法好 這個\n好那我回到今天排審的主席再給我一分鐘那因為我們最重要的修法重點就是要按限職人員的待遇希望能夠調升提高然後也希望按物價指數來調整所以我想要請教一下就是教育部還有組總就是對於基金的財務狀況會有沒有什麼樣的影響\n確實如果說要做調整他必須還是會考慮到整個基金的一個財務的問題還有跟現值人員的差異的問題以及他是不是有一個保障合理性的問題所以這三個部分都要一併做考量\n因為其實如果按照這兩個訴求像加薪3%嘛然後按著物價指數調整都是很正常的啦那重點是小小的調整大家會大大的有感啦所以我是想說就這個部分可不可以提供一個影響評估的一個書面報告就是組總跟教育部還有那個組總跟教育部可以嗎\n是 委員是針對兩個部分嘛對 針對那個修法的重點可以嗎 至少我們要知道他的一個影響評估報告可以喔好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.122 --> 00:30.641\n謝謝主席有請教育部朱次長還有權敘部鄭淑芬退福斯司長還有行政院主計總署的基金預算處謝謝好麻煩請列席官員上台謝謝\n\n00:33.069 --> 00:52.221\n好三位長官好本席其實一直以來都有在關心關於教職員或公務人員的一些權益那多年來來到立法院也經常遇到一些單位團體會來辦公室跟我們討論\n\n00:53.602 --> 01:18.053\n那我自己曾經在上一屆就是112年的時候有參與過公務人員退休子序撫恤辦法第39條以及公立學校教職員退休資金撫恤條例第98條的修法那總統呢也公告了那之後就是說要一退撫基金財務精算的結果來分年編列預算來撥補\n\n01:19.814 --> 01:42.963\n但是上路以來其實像以全教總來講他們其實是感到還蠻失望的所以我也有就這個部分來找三個部會一起的討論那我其實還是要講因為這個退府新制上路之後它最大的差別就是它現在不進入大水庫它是屬於個人專戶制\n\n01:43.963 --> 02:12.520\n所以呢這個基金撥補更顯得重要那大家的擔憂也是說之前已經有年改的經驗說會破產那如果不按照這樣子做那未來是不是還會面臨二次年改這樣的一個可能性所以其實我們的第一線的公務人員也好或公教人其實他們都非常的擔憂那我在這裡呢就是想要問一下因為如果說要依法來做\n\n02:13.260 --> 02:42.323\n退府基金委員會的第八次精算報告它是這麼寫的它是說每年至少撥補194億元要20年那權序部這邊是更細就是提到說分10年會怎麼樣分15年會怎麼樣分20年怎麼樣所以看起來最優最省最好的方案是分10年撥補因為可以減少\n\n02:43.084 --> 02:56.262\n少花710億元那教育部的部分我倒是沒有看到但是我想先請教一下就是教育部全序部就是這個部分114年就是撥補的狀況\n\n02:58.453 --> 03:13.609\n是跟我們報告因為根據精算確實我們需要如果是分10年是1360那如果是分20年是1660那我們現在今年的部分我們是有編的74億明年會有92億15會有92億來投入撥補那請問一下92億是分幾年\n\n03:21.007 --> 03:32.810\n我們目前是以其實部裡面我們是希望爭取用10年但是目前是以20年的方式所以是用20年那請教一下那個全序部\n\n03:34.564 --> 03:59.538\n這個部分因為新制上路以後我們部裡面是一直希望都是爭取用10年的撥補歷年都是用10年的撥補方案去編列概算但是因為國家有它政策支出的決定所以目前也是跟教育部一樣在今年經過核列的額度是用20年的方式來編是核定為120億\n\n04:00.999 --> 04:09.511\n好那聽起來就是教育部權序部都是希望用十年好那請教一下那個主總\n\n04:15.086 --> 04:36.008\n因為最後也是就是整個財政最後盤點的結果那就是因為這個就是我們持續撥補那但是考量到E5的整個支付的狀況還是採用20年部分就是所以意思就是說合計的話是如果用20年\n\n04:38.248 --> 04:52.927\n所以20年這個狀況是在明年會發生嗎20年撥補是明年的狀況嗎只是用20年這個基礎來談題後年呢這個我們還是每年在編預算會在滾動檢討那我剛才聽到的是說因為財政的問題我們財政有問題\n\n04:55.249 --> 05:07.915\n因為最後15整個盤點最後的稅入稅出的結果部分那這部分我們先用20年的基礎來做談題那明年就是每一年的那個財政收支會不一樣那可能還是可以再做滾動的\n\n05:09.198 --> 05:33.543\n那我再請教一下因為我們修法之後他是寫說因一退府基金財務精算結果接續分年編列預算撥補現行的退府基金是嗎我們修法是這麼寫的條文是這麼寫的所以現在是因為退府基金委員會的精算報告是說因每年至少撥補194億元達20年是按照這個嗎\n\n05:42.451 --> 06:11.589\n這部分還是有分三種那我最後還是用20年的部分先來那請教一下後年呢這可能還要看明年籌編總預算的時候再一起考慮所以我們其實沒有辦法因為修法之後有一個固定的數字有一個固定的做法是這樣嗎修法的部分可能如果說法是明定的話那當然是依法\n\n06:12.270 --> 06:15.071\n那現在怎麼辦那我們未來到底該怎麼做好那沒有關係因為時間的關係我只是說我們希望能夠按照精算的一個數額來撥補\n\n06:35.745 --> 06:57.377\n因為好不容易就修法啦總統也公告啦那這個部分我是希望說這個部分因為我們有看到啦114年編列194億就是公教的部分120億教師的部分74億啦那就是才20年的撥補啦所以呢我們希望說這個撥補數遠遠的不足\n\n06:59.838 --> 07:17.571\n那我們也希望說為了要防度未來就是因為這樣修法那就是為了要防度破產的可能避免二次年改我們還是要求說希望我們的主總能夠正視這個問題那也能夠提出一個報告可以嗎至少讓我們了解你們未來的做法好這個\n\n07:27.593 --> 07:47.140\n好那我回到今天排審的主席再給我一分鐘那因為我們最重要的修法重點就是要按限職人員的待遇希望能夠調升提高然後也希望按物價指數來調整所以我想要請教一下就是教育部還有組總就是對於基金的財務狀況會有沒有什麼樣的影響\n\n07:52.672 --> 08:10.110\n確實如果說要做調整他必須還是會考慮到整個基金的一個財務的問題還有跟現值人員的差異的問題以及他是不是有一個保障合理性的問題所以這三個部分都要一併做考量\n\n08:10.390 --> 08:33.332\n因為其實如果按照這兩個訴求像加薪3%嘛然後按著物價指數調整都是很正常的啦那重點是小小的調整大家會大大的有感啦所以我是想說就這個部分可不可以提供一個影響評估的一個書面報告就是組總跟教育部還有那個組總跟教育部可以嗎\n\n08:35.094 --> 08:47.601\n是委員是針對兩個部分嘛對針對那個修法的重點可以嗎至少我們要知道他的一個影響評估報告可以喔好謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.122,"end":30.641,"text":"謝謝主席 有請教育部 朱次長還有權敘部 鄭淑芬 退福斯司長還有行政院主計總署的基金預算處 謝謝好 麻煩請列席官員上台 謝謝"},{"start":33.069,"end":52.221,"text":"好 三位長官好本席其實一直以來都有在關心關於教職員或公務人員的一些權益那多年來來到立法院也經常遇到一些單位團體會來辦公室跟我們討論"},{"start":53.602,"end":78.053,"text":"那我自己曾經在上一屆就是112年的時候有參與過公務人員退休子序撫恤辦法第39條以及公立學校教職員退休資金撫恤條例第98條的修法那總統呢也公告了那之後就是說要一退撫基金財務精算的結果來分年編列預算來撥補"},{"start":79.814,"end":102.963,"text":"但是上路以來其實像以全教總來講他們其實是感到還蠻失望的所以我也有就這個部分來找三個部會一起的討論那我其實還是要講因為這個退府新制上路之後它最大的差別就是它現在不進入大水庫它是屬於個人專戶制"},{"start":103.963,"end":132.52,"text":"所以呢這個基金撥補更顯得重要那大家的擔憂也是說之前已經有年改的經驗說會破產那如果不按照這樣子做那未來是不是還會面臨二次年改這樣的一個可能性所以其實我們的第一線的公務人員也好或公教人其實他們都非常的擔憂那我在這裡呢就是想要問一下因為如果說要依法來做"},{"start":133.26,"end":162.323,"text":"退府基金委員會的第八次精算報告它是這麼寫的它是說每年至少撥補194億元要20年那權序部這邊是更細就是提到說分10年會怎麼樣分15年會怎麼樣分20年怎麼樣所以看起來最優最省最好的方案是分10年撥補因為可以減少"},{"start":163.084,"end":176.262,"text":"少花710億元那教育部的部分我倒是沒有看到但是我想先請教一下就是教育部全序部就是這個部分114年就是撥補的狀況"},{"start":178.453,"end":193.609,"text":"是跟我們報告因為根據精算確實我們需要如果是分10年是1360那如果是分20年是1660那我們現在今年的部分我們是有編的74億明年會有92億15會有92億來投入撥補那請問一下92億是分幾年"},{"start":201.007,"end":212.81,"text":"我們目前是以其實部裡面我們是希望爭取用10年但是目前是以20年的方式所以是用20年那請教一下那個全序部"},{"start":214.564,"end":239.538,"text":"這個部分因為新制上路以後我們部裡面是一直希望都是爭取用10年的撥補歷年都是用10年的撥補方案去編列概算但是因為國家有它政策支出的決定所以目前也是跟教育部一樣在今年經過核列的額度是用20年的方式來編是核定為120億"},{"start":240.999,"end":249.511,"text":"好 那聽起來就是教育部 權序部都是希望用十年好 那請教一下那個主總"},{"start":255.086,"end":276.008,"text":"因為最後也是就是整個財政最後盤點的結果那就是因為這個就是我們持續撥補那但是考量到E5的整個支付的狀況還是採用20年部分就是所以意思就是說合計的話是如果用20年"},{"start":278.248,"end":292.927,"text":"所以20年這個狀況是在明年會發生嗎20年撥補是明年的狀況嗎只是用20年這個基礎來談題後年呢這個我們還是每年在編預算會在滾動檢討那我剛才聽到的是說因為財政的問題我們財政有問題"},{"start":295.249,"end":307.915,"text":"因為最後15整個盤點最後的稅入稅出的結果部分那這部分我們先用20年的基礎來做談題那明年就是每一年的那個財政收支會不一樣那可能還是可以再做滾動的"},{"start":309.198,"end":333.543,"text":"那我再請教一下因為我們修法之後他是寫說因一退府基金財務精算結果接續分年編列預算撥補現行的退府基金是嗎我們修法是這麼寫的條文是這麼寫的所以現在是因為退府基金委員會的精算報告是說因每年至少撥補194億元達20年是按照這個嗎"},{"start":342.451,"end":371.589,"text":"這部分還是有分三種那我最後還是用20年的部分先來那請教一下後年呢這可能還要看明年籌編總預算的時候再一起考慮所以我們其實沒有辦法因為修法之後有一個固定的數字有一個固定的做法是這樣嗎修法的部分可能如果說法是明定的話那當然是依法"},{"start":372.27,"end":375.071,"text":"那現在怎麼辦 那我們未來到底該怎麼做好 那沒有關係 因為時間的關係我只是說 我們希望能夠按照精算的一個數額來撥補"},{"start":395.745,"end":417.377,"text":"因為好不容易就修法啦總統也公告啦那這個部分我是希望說這個部分因為我們有看到啦114年編列194億就是公教的部分120億教師的部分74億啦那就是才20年的撥補啦所以呢我們希望說這個撥補數遠遠的不足"},{"start":419.838,"end":437.571,"text":"那我們也希望說為了要防度未來就是因為這樣修法那就是為了要防度破產的可能避免二次年改我們還是要求說希望我們的主總能夠正視這個問題那也能夠提出一個報告可以嗎至少讓我們了解你們未來的做法好 這個"},{"start":447.593,"end":467.14,"text":"好那我回到今天排審的主席再給我一分鐘那因為我們最重要的修法重點就是要按限職人員的待遇希望能夠調升提高然後也希望按物價指數來調整所以我想要請教一下就是教育部還有組總就是對於基金的財務狀況會有沒有什麼樣的影響"},{"start":472.672,"end":490.11,"text":"確實如果說要做調整他必須還是會考慮到整個基金的一個財務的問題還有跟現值人員的差異的問題以及他是不是有一個保障合理性的問題所以這三個部分都要一併做考量"},{"start":490.39,"end":513.332,"text":"因為其實如果按照這兩個訴求像加薪3%嘛然後按著物價指數調整都是很正常的啦那重點是小小的調整大家會大大的有感啦所以我是想說就這個部分可不可以提供一個影響評估的一個書面報告就是組總跟教育部還有那個組總跟教育部可以嗎"},{"start":515.094,"end":527.601,"text":"是 委員是針對兩個部分嘛對 針對那個修法的重點可以嗎 至少我們要知道他的一個影響評估報告可以喔好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":848,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（12時19分）謝謝主席，有請教育部朱次長、銓敘部退撫司鄭淑芬司長、行政院主計總處基金預算處，謝謝。"],["朱次長俊彰：委員好。"],["主席：麻煩請列席官員上台，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：3位長官好。本席一直以來都在關心教職員或公務人員的一些權益，多年來在立法院也經常遇到一些單位團體會來辦公室跟我們討論。我自己曾經在上一屆、112年參與過公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第九十三條以及公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第九十八條的修法，總統也公告了，之後就是要依退撫基金財務精算的結果分年編列預算來撥補。","但是自上路以來，以全教總來講，他們其實是感到滿失望的，所以我也有就這個部分找3個部會一起來討論。其實我還是要講，因為這個退撫新制上路之後，最大的差別就是現在不進入大水庫，而是屬於個人專戶制的，所以基金的撥補就更顯得重要，而大家的擔憂也是，之前已經有年改的經驗，說是會破產，如果不按照這樣子做，未來是不是還是會面臨二次年改的可能性？所以不論是第一線的公務人員也好，還是公教人員，其實他們都非常擔憂。","我在這裡就是想要問一下，如果要依法來做，退撫基金委員會第8次精算報告是這麼寫的，它說每年至少撥補194億元、要20年，銓敘部則更細，就是提到分10年會怎麼樣、分15年會怎麼樣、分20年會怎麼樣，所以看起來最優、最省、最好的方案就是分10年撥補，因為可以少花710億元。至於教育部的部分，我倒是沒有看到，但是我想先請教一下教育部、銓敘部，這個部分在114年撥補的狀況。"],["朱次長俊彰：跟委員報告，因為根據精算我們確實須依……如果是分10年是1360，如果是分20年是1660，今年的部分我們是編了74億，明（115）年會有92億投入撥補。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：請問一下，92億是分幾年？"],["朱次長俊彰：我們目前是以……其實部裡面是希望爭取用10年。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是。"],["朱次長俊彰：目前是以20年的方式，但是我們會……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以是用20年？好，再請教一下銓敘部。"],["鄭司長淑芬：因為這個新制上路以後我們部裡面是一直希望能爭取用10年的撥補，歷年都是用10年撥補的方案去編列概算的，但是國家有政策支出的決定，所以目前也是跟教育部一樣，今年經過核列的額度是用20年的方式來編，是核定為120億。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，聽起來就是教育部、銓敘部都希望用10年。請教一下主總。"],["王專門委員前鎧：因為最後也是整個財政最後盤點的結果，我們就是持續撥補，但考量到115年整個財政支出的狀況，還是採用20年的部分……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：意思就是合計的話，如果用20年的話，這個狀況是明年會發生嗎？20年撥補是明年的狀況嗎？"],["王專門委員前鎧：沒有，只是用20年的這個基礎來攤提。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：後年呢？"],["王專門委員前鎧：這個我們還是到每年編預算時再滾動檢討，看看……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我剛才聽到說是「因為財政的問題」，是不是我們的財政有問題？"],["王專門委員前鎧：因為最後盤點整個115年歲入、歲出的結果，這部分我們先用20年的基礎來攤提，明年……就是每一年的財政收支會不一樣，可能還是可以再滾動檢討。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我再請教一下，因為我們修法之後它是寫，依退撫基金財務精算結果，分年編列預算撥補現行的退撫基金嘛！"],["王專門委員前鎧：是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是嘛！我們修法是這麼寫的，條文是這麼寫的嘛！因為退撫基金委員會的精算報告是說：應每年至少撥補194億元，達20年。是按照這個嗎？"],["王專門委員前鎧：這部分還是有分三種，我們最後還是用20年的部分先來做。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，請教一下那後年呢？"],["王專門委員前鎧：這可能還要看明年籌編總預算的狀況再一起考慮。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以我們沒有辦法因為修法之後而有一個固定的數字、有一個固定的作法，是這樣嗎？"],["王專門委員前鎧：修法的部分，如果是法明定的，那當然是依法。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那現在怎麼辦？我們未來到底該怎麼做？好，那沒有關係，因為時間的關係，我只是說我們希望能夠按照精算的數額來撥補，因為好不容易修法了，總統也公告了。這個部分因為我們有看到114年編列194億，就是公教的部分120億，教師的部分74億，採20年的撥補。我們認為這個撥補數遠遠不足，我們也希望，因為這樣修法就是為了要防杜破產的可能，避免二次年改，我們還是要求、希望主總能夠正視這個問題，也能夠提出一個報告，可以嗎？至少讓我們了解你們未來的作法。"],["王專門委員前鎧：好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：回到今天排審的主題，請主席再給我1分鐘，因為我們最重要的修法重點就是要按現職人員的待遇調升而提高，也希望按物價指數來調整，所以我想要請教一下教育部還有主總，對於基金的財務狀況有沒有什麼樣的影響？"],["朱次長俊彰：確實，如果要調整，還是必須考慮到整個基金的財務問題，還有跟現職人員差異的問題，以及保障合理性的問題，所以這三個部分都要一併考量。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：如果按照這兩個訴求，像加薪百分之三、按照物價指數調整，都是很正常的啦！重點是小小的調整，大家會大大的有感，所以我是想，就這個部分主總跟教育部可不可以提供一個影響評估的書面報告，可以嗎？"],["朱次長俊彰：是，委員是針對兩個部分嘛？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，針對修法的重點，可以嗎？"],["朱次長俊彰：好，我們會後提供。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：至少我們要知道它的影響評估報告，可以嗎？"],["朱次長俊彰：好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝次長，謝謝主席。"],["朱次長俊彰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝伍委員。","接下來請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1","speakers":["翁曉玲","賴士葆","張智倫","許宇甄","黃健豪","林倩綺","黃國昌","王義川","柯志恩","陳培瑜","萬美玲","劉書彬","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","林宜瑾","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","王鴻薇","范雲","黃建賓","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","吳沛憶","葉元之","陳秀寳","沈發惠","謝龍介","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","吳宗憲","傅崐萁"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草\n案」案；( 二) 國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案；(三)委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條\n文修正草案」案；(四)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條\n文修正草案」案；(五)委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(六)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(七)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n部分條文修正草案」案；(八)委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(九)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(十)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1148601_00002"}}}