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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 383.517, \"end\": 383.537, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,871 --> 00:00:39,451\n主席有請我們教育部還有前系部還有人事行政總署委員好大家辛苦了這個今天談這個公立學校教職員退休之前撫恤條例這個我們必須去回顧這個剛才有民進黨的立委特別提到\n\n2\n00:00:41,677 --> 00:01:05,572\n這個馬英九總統過去也提過年金改革年金改革的方向或是怎麼樣去改革其實是有很多種面向我們就並不是說因為他講過所以現在的現在的法律是他支持的不是這樣我們來看\n\n3\n00:01:08,002 --> 00:01:36,901\n當初蔡英文上任之後成立了國家年金改革委員會邀請了各專家學者包括我們行政機關各機關的專業人員各院各部會都有開了20次會議20次不是小數字開了20次會議當時的行政院跟考試院\n\n4\n00:01:38,171 --> 00:02:02,216\n根據陳副總統燒開主持的國家年金改革委員會20次的會議我再強調一次20次的會議然後你們提出了當時的行政院跟考試院提出了公務人員退休撫恤法的草案在106年3月30號但是呢\n\n5\n00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:36,759\n很遺憾的當時的立法院因為民進黨絕對多數竟然是依段宜康委員的等委員民進黨的委員的提案來通過是依民進黨的立委我是在現場段委員有很有怎麼瞭解這些嗎當然不是就大砍就對了\n\n6\n00:02:39,766 --> 00:02:57,486\n國家年金改革委員會20次的會議然後行政院考試院送來的草案是小砍那後來是大砍就這麼簡單所以怎麼樣要把它回復過來這個是我們必須作為一個\n\n7\n00:03:00,250 --> 00:03:29,742\n回到現在的話怎麼樣能夠回復到當時國民最起碼是國家年金改革委員會這麼多的專家學者各部會各院而且開了20次的會議這是一個部分好我們看一樣有關公立學校教職員退休輔系條例今天要談的這個部分也是一樣行政院也送來了\n\n8\n00:03:31,398 --> 00:03:57,910\n審查的時候這很複雜很簡單就是再砍當時的立法院民進黨記憶多數再砍就是這麼簡單依民進黨團再修正綜藝條文通過也就是現行的這些法例以及相關的這些附表\n\n9\n00:03:59,171 --> 00:04:25,304\n所謂的替代力就是按照民進黨的他就是在大砍這裡面有簡單的做一些對照我們以40年的年資來講就公立學校教職員的退休輔系條例附表3主要重點就是附表3當時行政院的版本用16年\n\n10\n00:04:27,472 --> 00:04:52,288\n到最後16年是62.5%當時立法院通過民進黨團團的修正條文11年所以前面就要大砍就是這麼一回事就以30年的年資來看也是一樣要16年才達到52.5%提早到\n\n11\n00:04:57,099 --> 00:05:10,144\n民進黨談的修正再修正動議條文是提早到11年52.5%52.5%當初的行政院版本是第11年是57.5%57.5%我們看這個40年年資的行政院版本當初第11年是67.5%\n\n12\n00:05:25,339 --> 00:05:51,170\n民進黨再修正動力調整是62.5%很簡單就大砍而已啊他們哪有那麼專業絕對沒有那麼專業就是大砍比例再大砍縮小年限就這麼簡單所以我們應該要怎麼樣再回復過來應該的應該的就是要好好的提出來\n\n13\n00:05:53,376 --> 00:06:22,227\n不然的話陳副總統當初召集了這麼多的專業人員各院各部會所討論出來的所以這個部分我們要去好好的去說明所以這個部分是我們應該要繼續在今天的審查以及未來的審查都必須要盡力的部分這個是我們讓真實的回顧好不好\n\n14\n00:06:23,376 --> 00:06:23,537\n好謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11871\t39451\t主席有請我們教育部還有前系部還有人事行政總署委員好大家辛苦了這個今天談這個公立學校教職員退休之前撫恤條例這個我們必須去回顧這個剛才有民進黨的立委特別提到\n41677\t65572\t這個馬英九總統過去也提過年金改革年金改革的方向或是怎麼樣去改革其實是有很多種面向我們就並不是說因為他講過所以現在的現在的法律是他支持的不是這樣我們來看\n68002\t96901\t當初蔡英文上任之後成立了國家年金改革委員會邀請了各專家學者包括我們行政機關各機關的專業人員各院各部會都有開了20次會議20次不是小數字開了20次會議當時的行政院跟考試院\n98171\t122216\t根據陳副總統燒開主持的國家年金改革委員會20次的會議我再強調一次20次的會議然後你們提出了當時的行政院跟考試院提出了公務人員退休撫恤法的草案在106年3月30號但是呢\n128800\t156759\t很遺憾的當時的立法院因為民進黨絕對多數竟然是依段宜康委員的等委員民進黨的委員的提案來通過是依民進黨的立委我是在現場段委員有很有怎麼瞭解這些嗎當然不是就大砍就對了\n159766\t177486\t國家年金改革委員會20次的會議然後行政院考試院送來的草案是小砍那後來是大砍就這麼簡單所以怎麼樣要把它回復過來這個是我們必須作為一個\n180250\t209742\t回到現在的話怎麼樣能夠回復到當時國民最起碼是國家年金改革委員會這麼多的專家學者各部會各院而且開了20次的會議這是一個部分好我們看一樣有關公立學校教職員退休輔系條例今天要談的這個部分也是一樣行政院也送來了\n211398\t237910\t審查的時候這很複雜很簡單就是再砍當時的立法院民進黨記憶多數再砍就是這麼簡單依民進黨團再修正綜藝條文通過也就是現行的這些法例以及相關的這些附表\n239171\t265304\t所謂的替代力就是按照民進黨的他就是在大砍這裡面有簡單的做一些對照我們以40年的年資來講就公立學校教職員的退休輔系條例附表3主要重點就是附表3當時行政院的版本用16年\n267472\t292288\t到最後16年是62.5%當時立法院通過民進黨團團的修正條文11年所以前面就要大砍就是這麼一回事就以30年的年資來看也是一樣要16年才達到52.5%提早到\n297099\t310144\t民進黨談的修正再修正動議條文是提早到11年52.5%52.5%當初的行政院版本是第11年是57.5%57.5%我們看這個40年年資的行政院版本當初第11年是67.5%\n325339\t351170\t民進黨再修正動力調整是62.5%很簡單就大砍而已啊他們哪有那麼專業絕對沒有那麼專業就是大砍比例再大砍縮小年限就這麼簡單所以我們應該要怎麼樣再回復過來應該的應該的就是要好好的提出來\n353376\t382227\t不然的話陳副總統當初召集了這麼多的專業人員各院各部會所討論出來的所以這個部分我們要去好好的去說明所以這個部分是我們應該要繼續在今天的審查以及未來的審查都必須要盡力的部分這個是我們讓真實的回顧好不好\n383376\t383537\t好 謝謝謝謝委員\n","txt":"主席有請我們教育部還有前系部還有人事行政總署委員好大家辛苦了這個今天談這個公立學校教職員退休之前撫恤條例這個我們必須去回顧這個剛才有民進黨的立委特別提到\n這個馬英九總統過去也提過年金改革年金改革的方向或是怎麼樣去改革其實是有很多種面向我們就並不是說因為他講過所以現在的現在的法律是他支持的不是這樣我們來看\n當初蔡英文上任之後成立了國家年金改革委員會邀請了各專家學者包括我們行政機關各機關的專業人員各院各部會都有開了20次會議20次不是小數字開了20次會議當時的行政院跟考試院\n根據陳副總統燒開主持的國家年金改革委員會20次的會議我再強調一次20次的會議然後你們提出了當時的行政院跟考試院提出了公務人員退休撫恤法的草案在106年3月30號但是呢\n很遺憾的當時的立法院因為民進黨絕對多數竟然是依段宜康委員的等委員民進黨的委員的提案來通過是依民進黨的立委我是在現場段委員有很有怎麼瞭解這些嗎當然不是就大砍就對了\n國家年金改革委員會20次的會議然後行政院考試院送來的草案是小砍那後來是大砍就這麼簡單所以怎麼樣要把它回復過來這個是我們必須作為一個\n回到現在的話怎麼樣能夠回復到當時國民最起碼是國家年金改革委員會這麼多的專家學者各部會各院而且開了20次的會議這是一個部分好我們看一樣有關公立學校教職員退休輔系條例今天要談的這個部分也是一樣行政院也送來了\n審查的時候這很複雜很簡單就是再砍當時的立法院民進黨記憶多數再砍就是這麼簡單依民進黨團再修正綜藝條文通過也就是現行的這些法例以及相關的這些附表\n所謂的替代力就是按照民進黨的他就是在大砍這裡面有簡單的做一些對照我們以40年的年資來講就公立學校教職員的退休輔系條例附表3主要重點就是附表3當時行政院的版本用16年\n到最後16年是62.5%當時立法院通過民進黨團團的修正條文11年所以前面就要大砍就是這麼一回事就以30年的年資來看也是一樣要16年才達到52.5%提早到\n民進黨談的修正再修正動議條文是提早到11年52.5%52.5%當初的行政院版本是第11年是57.5%57.5%我們看這個40年年資的行政院版本當初第11年是67.5%\n民進黨再修正動力調整是62.5%很簡單就大砍而已啊他們哪有那麼專業絕對沒有那麼專業就是大砍比例再大砍縮小年限就這麼簡單所以我們應該要怎麼樣再回復過來應該的應該的就是要好好的提出來\n不然的話陳副總統當初召集了這麼多的專業人員各院各部會所討論出來的所以這個部分我們要去好好的去說明所以這個部分是我們應該要繼續在今天的審查以及未來的審查都必須要盡力的部分這個是我們讓真實的回顧好不好\n好 謝謝謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.871 --> 00:39.451\n主席有請我們教育部還有前系部還有人事行政總署委員好大家辛苦了這個今天談這個公立學校教職員退休之前撫恤條例這個我們必須去回顧這個剛才有民進黨的立委特別提到\n\n00:41.677 --> 01:05.572\n這個馬英九總統過去也提過年金改革年金改革的方向或是怎麼樣去改革其實是有很多種面向我們就並不是說因為他講過所以現在的現在的法律是他支持的不是這樣我們來看\n\n01:08.002 --> 01:36.901\n當初蔡英文上任之後成立了國家年金改革委員會邀請了各專家學者包括我們行政機關各機關的專業人員各院各部會都有開了20次會議20次不是小數字開了20次會議當時的行政院跟考試院\n\n01:38.171 --> 02:02.216\n根據陳副總統燒開主持的國家年金改革委員會20次的會議我再強調一次20次的會議然後你們提出了當時的行政院跟考試院提出了公務人員退休撫恤法的草案在106年3月30號但是呢\n\n02:08.800 --> 02:36.759\n很遺憾的當時的立法院因為民進黨絕對多數竟然是依段宜康委員的等委員民進黨的委員的提案來通過是依民進黨的立委我是在現場段委員有很有怎麼瞭解這些嗎當然不是就大砍就對了\n\n02:39.766 --> 02:57.486\n國家年金改革委員會20次的會議然後行政院考試院送來的草案是小砍那後來是大砍就這麼簡單所以怎麼樣要把它回復過來這個是我們必須作為一個\n\n03:00.250 --> 03:29.742\n回到現在的話怎麼樣能夠回復到當時國民最起碼是國家年金改革委員會這麼多的專家學者各部會各院而且開了20次的會議這是一個部分好我們看一樣有關公立學校教職員退休輔系條例今天要談的這個部分也是一樣行政院也送來了\n\n03:31.398 --> 03:57.910\n審查的時候這很複雜很簡單就是再砍當時的立法院民進黨記憶多數再砍就是這麼簡單依民進黨團再修正綜藝條文通過也就是現行的這些法例以及相關的這些附表\n\n03:59.171 --> 04:25.304\n所謂的替代力就是按照民進黨的他就是在大砍這裡面有簡單的做一些對照我們以40年的年資來講就公立學校教職員的退休輔系條例附表3主要重點就是附表3當時行政院的版本用16年\n\n04:27.472 --> 04:52.288\n到最後16年是62.5%當時立法院通過民進黨團團的修正條文11年所以前面就要大砍就是這麼一回事就以30年的年資來看也是一樣要16年才達到52.5%提早到\n\n04:57.099 --> 05:10.144\n民進黨談的修正再修正動議條文是提早到11年52.5%52.5%當初的行政院版本是第11年是57.5%57.5%我們看這個40年年資的行政院版本當初第11年是67.5%\n\n05:25.339 --> 05:51.170\n民進黨再修正動力調整是62.5%很簡單就大砍而已啊他們哪有那麼專業絕對沒有那麼專業就是大砍比例再大砍縮小年限就這麼簡單所以我們應該要怎麼樣再回復過來應該的應該的就是要好好的提出來\n\n05:53.376 --> 06:22.227\n不然的話陳副總統當初召集了這麼多的專業人員各院各部會所討論出來的所以這個部分我們要去好好的去說明所以這個部分是我們應該要繼續在今天的審查以及未來的審查都必須要盡力的部分這個是我們讓真實的回顧好不好\n\n06:23.376 --> 06:23.537\n好謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.871,"end":39.451,"text":"主席有請我們教育部還有前系部還有人事行政總署委員好大家辛苦了這個今天談這個公立學校教職員退休之前撫恤條例這個我們必須去回顧這個剛才有民進黨的立委特別提到"},{"start":41.677,"end":65.572,"text":"這個馬英九總統過去也提過年金改革年金改革的方向或是怎麼樣去改革其實是有很多種面向我們就並不是說因為他講過所以現在的現在的法律是他支持的不是這樣我們來看"},{"start":68.002,"end":96.901,"text":"當初蔡英文上任之後成立了國家年金改革委員會邀請了各專家學者包括我們行政機關各機關的專業人員各院各部會都有開了20次會議20次不是小數字開了20次會議當時的行政院跟考試院"},{"start":98.171,"end":122.216,"text":"根據陳副總統燒開主持的國家年金改革委員會20次的會議我再強調一次20次的會議然後你們提出了當時的行政院跟考試院提出了公務人員退休撫恤法的草案在106年3月30號但是呢"},{"start":128.8,"end":156.759,"text":"很遺憾的當時的立法院因為民進黨絕對多數竟然是依段宜康委員的等委員民進黨的委員的提案來通過是依民進黨的立委我是在現場段委員有很有怎麼瞭解這些嗎當然不是就大砍就對了"},{"start":159.766,"end":177.486,"text":"國家年金改革委員會20次的會議然後行政院考試院送來的草案是小砍那後來是大砍就這麼簡單所以怎麼樣要把它回復過來這個是我們必須作為一個"},{"start":180.25,"end":209.742,"text":"回到現在的話怎麼樣能夠回復到當時國民最起碼是國家年金改革委員會這麼多的專家學者各部會各院而且開了20次的會議這是一個部分好我們看一樣有關公立學校教職員退休輔系條例今天要談的這個部分也是一樣行政院也送來了"},{"start":211.398,"end":237.91,"text":"審查的時候這很複雜很簡單就是再砍當時的立法院民進黨記憶多數再砍就是這麼簡單依民進黨團再修正綜藝條文通過也就是現行的這些法例以及相關的這些附表"},{"start":239.171,"end":265.304,"text":"所謂的替代力就是按照民進黨的他就是在大砍這裡面有簡單的做一些對照我們以40年的年資來講就公立學校教職員的退休輔系條例附表3主要重點就是附表3當時行政院的版本用16年"},{"start":267.472,"end":292.288,"text":"到最後16年是62.5%當時立法院通過民進黨團團的修正條文11年所以前面就要大砍就是這麼一回事就以30年的年資來看也是一樣要16年才達到52.5%提早到"},{"start":297.099,"end":310.144,"text":"民進黨談的修正再修正動議條文是提早到11年52.5%52.5%當初的行政院版本是第11年是57.5%57.5%我們看這個40年年資的行政院版本當初第11年是67.5%"},{"start":325.339,"end":351.17,"text":"民進黨再修正動力調整是62.5%很簡單就大砍而已啊他們哪有那麼專業絕對沒有那麼專業就是大砍比例再大砍縮小年限就這麼簡單所以我們應該要怎麼樣再回復過來應該的應該的就是要好好的提出來"},{"start":353.376,"end":382.227,"text":"不然的話陳副總統當初召集了這麼多的專業人員各院各部會所討論出來的所以這個部分我們要去好好的去說明所以這個部分是我們應該要繼續在今天的審查以及未來的審查都必須要盡力的部分這個是我們讓真實的回顧好不好"},{"start":383.376,"end":383.537,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":891,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時29分）主席，有請教育部，還有銓敘部，還有人事行政總處。"],["朱次長俊彰：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，大家辛苦了。今天談公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例，我們必須去回顧，剛才有民進黨的立委特別提到馬英九總統過去也提過年金改革。年金改革的方向或是怎麼樣去改革其實是有很多種面向，並不是因為他講過，所以現在的法律是他支持的，不是這樣。我們來看，當初蔡英文上任之後成立了國家年金改革委員會，邀請了各專家學者，包括各行政機關的專業人員，各院、各部會都有，開了20次會議。20次不是小數字，開了20次會議，根據陳副總統召開主持的國家年金改革委員會20次的會議，我再強調一次，20次的會議，當時的行政院跟考試院在106年3月30號提出了公務人員退休撫卹法的草案。","但是很遺憾的，當時的立法院因為民進黨絕對多數，竟然是依段宜康委員等民進黨委員的提案通過，是依民進黨立委的提案，我是在現場啊！段委員有這麼了解這些嗎？當然不是啊！大砍就對了！經過國家年金改革委員會召開20次的會議，然後行政院、考試院送來的草案是小砍，後來是大砍，就這麼簡單。所以要怎麼樣把它回復過來，這個是我們必須要做的，回到現在的話，怎麼樣能夠回復到當時……最起碼是國家年金改革委員會這麼多的專家、學者、各部會、各院所提出的，而且開了20次的會議，這是一個部分。","我們看到有關公立學校教職員退休撫卹條例，今天要談的這個部分也是一樣，行政院也送來了，審查的時候……這看起來很複雜啦！但其實很簡單，就是再砍嘛！當時的立法院民進黨居於多數，再砍，就是這麼簡單，依民進黨團再修正動議條文通過，也就是現行的這些法律以及相關的附表，所謂的替代率就是按照民進黨團的，就是再大砍。","這裡有簡單的做一些對照，依照公立學校教職員退休撫卹條例的附表三，主要的重點就在附表三，我們以四十年的年資來講，當時行政院的版本用十六年，到最後第十六年是62.5%；當時立法院通過民進黨黨團的修正條文是十一年，所以前面就要大砍，就是這麼一回事啊！以三十年的年資來看，也是一樣，要十六年才達到52.5%，民進黨團的再修正動議條文是提早到十一年達到52.5%，當初的行政院版本第十一年是57.5%。我們看四十年年資的，行政院的版本當初第十一年是67.5%，民進黨的再修正動議條文是62.5%，很簡單，就大砍而已啊！他們哪有那麼專業！絕對沒有那麼專業，就是大砍，比率再大砍，縮小年限，就這麼簡單。","所以我們應該要怎麼樣再回復過來？應該的、應該的，就是要好好的提出來。不然的話，陳副總統當初召集了這麼多的專業人員，各院、各部會所討論出來的……這個部分我們要好好的去說明，所以這個是我們應該要繼續在今天的審查以及未來的審查都需要盡力的部分，這個是我們真實的回顧，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["朱次長俊彰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝鄭委員。","接下來請賴士葆委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1","speakers":["翁曉玲","賴士葆","張智倫","許宇甄","黃健豪","林倩綺","黃國昌","王義川","柯志恩","陳培瑜","萬美玲","劉書彬","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","林宜瑾","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","王鴻薇","范雲","黃建賓","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","吳沛憶","葉元之","陳秀寳","沈發惠","謝龍介","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","吳宗憲","傅崐萁"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草\n案」案；( 二) 國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案；(三)委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條\n文修正草案」案；(四)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條\n文修正草案」案；(五)委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(六)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(七)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n部分條文修正草案」案；(八)委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(九)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(十)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1148601_00002"}}}