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{\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 262.308, \"end\": 262.528, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 262.528, \"end\": 262.708, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 262.708, \"end\": 262.848, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 262.848, \"end\": 263.088, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 263.088, \"end\": 263.748, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 263.748, \"end\": 263.888, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 263.888, \"end\": 264.528, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 264.528, \"end\": 264.708, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 264.708, \"end\": 264.828, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 264.828, \"end\": 265.048, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 265.048, \"end\": 265.448, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 265.448, \"end\": 266.108, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 266.108, \"end\": 266.328, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 266.328, \"end\": 266.448, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 266.448, \"end\": 266.649, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 266.649, \"end\": 267.389, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 267.389, \"end\": 267.569, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 267.569, \"end\": 267.709, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 267.709, \"end\": 267.889, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 267.889, \"end\": 268.069, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 268.069, \"end\": 268.249, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 268.249, \"end\": 268.349, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 268.349, \"end\": 268.369, \"score\": 0.782}]}, {\"start\": 269.887, \"end\": 295.209, \"text\": \"包委 這個可能是統計時間的不同的差別就我們來說的話我們9月6號去看是完全沒有在廢棄物的部分在那個暗場有一些呢 他的完好無缺的他還擺在那個地方並沒有廢棄掉至於說可能又一個情況是說因為現場其實非常的亂特別是在9月5號之前所以他們在清的過程當中可能有一些\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 269.887, \"end\": 270.027, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 270.027, \"end\": 270.588, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 270.588, \"end\": 270.688, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 270.688, \"end\": 271.148, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 271.148, \"end\": 271.669, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 271.669, \"end\": 271.809, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 271.809, \"end\": 271.929, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 271.929, \"end\": 272.129, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 272.129, \"end\": 272.289, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 272.289, \"end\": 272.529, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 272.529, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 827.072, \"end\": 827.292, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"仁\", \"start\": 827.292, \"end\": 827.492, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 827.492, \"end\": 827.813, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 827.813, \"end\": 828.594, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 828.594, \"end\": 828.754, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 828.754, \"end\": 828.854, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 828.854, \"end\": 828.994, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 828.994, \"end\": 829.595, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 829.595, \"end\": 830.255, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 830.255, \"end\": 830.375, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 830.375, \"end\": 830.556, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 830.556, \"end\": 830.696, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 855.396, \"end\": 855.556, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 855.556, \"end\": 855.756, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 855.756, \"end\": 855.977, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 855.977, \"end\": 856.998, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 856.998, \"end\": 857.799, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 857.799, \"end\": 857.979, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 857.979, \"end\": 858.22, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 858.22, \"end\": 858.46, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 858.46, \"end\": 858.66, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 858.66, \"end\": 859.642, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 859.642, \"end\": 860.122, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 963.568, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 963.568, \"end\": 963.868, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 963.868, \"end\": 964.028, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 964.028, \"end\": 964.188, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 964.188, \"end\": 964.348, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 964.348, \"end\": 964.628, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 964.628, \"end\": 964.749, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 964.749, \"end\": 965.449, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 965.449, \"end\": 965.869, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 965.869, \"end\": 966.889, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"夜\", \"start\": 966.889, \"end\": 967.27, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 967.27, \"end\": 967.97, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"眠\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 967.97, \"end\": 968.29, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 968.29, \"end\": 968.61, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"忙\", \"start\": 968.61, \"end\": 969.631, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 969.631, \"end\": 969.911, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 969.911, \"end\": 971.291, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 971.291, \"end\": 972.092, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"圖\"}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 972.092, \"end\": 972.532, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"紀\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 972.532, \"end\": 972.692, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 972.692, \"end\": 972.832, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 972.832, \"end\": 972.852, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,461 --> 00:00:29,859\n好謝謝主席那請問彭部長還有賴次長好有請彭部長賴次長圖偉文好部長我先請問一下像我們風災過後那個廠商如果跟環境部回報說這些光電板的處理情形已經全數清理完成了那清理完成是怎麼樣子要做清理完成\n\n2\n00:00:30,539 --> 00:00:57,155\n包委員因為我們的這個我們會有我們這個管理中心南區管理中心例如這次是南區管理中心環境部管管署的然後結合地方環保局一起去查驗所以最後那一家在9月5號我們給他期限是9月5號完成我們9月6號有去全部案場再巡過一次那的確是沒有廢棄物所以這個部分我們是有一套程序在進行但是其實那應該叫做清運完成\n\n3\n00:00:57,355 --> 00:01:24,429\n清運完成對你清理完成應該是指清運處理完成那你單就你看我們10月8號那時候我們衛環委員也有質詢針對光電板這個案子那後來晚上馬上就看到經濟部當天晚上8點半就發新聞稿說我們的廢棄的光電板已經全數清理完成而且其實我們那天質詢的時候部長\n\n4\n00:01:25,069 --> 00:01:47,223\n也還在講其實還有一萬兩千片是佔置在其他的地方那可是晚上馬上經濟部就說全數清理完成這個我覺得好像在玩文字遊戲一般的民眾會感覺說好像我們光電板已經清理完了然後這個業者也已經都把它分解列解處理完成我覺得好像有一點在誤導民眾\n\n5\n00:01:49,211 --> 00:02:07,169\n我們的清理是指的是說離開原有的案場回復它正常的環境的品質那就是清運嘛A點到B點你把它清除清運走所以我覺得說這個還是要注意一下因為我覺得有一點而且當天明明就講說還有一萬兩千片\n\n6\n00:02:08,010 --> 00:02:34,015\n都還在暫置結果晚上就發新聞稿說已經全數清理完成不知道的民眾會覺得說我們環境部經濟部動作那麼快光電板已經全部都清理好了我覺得這個還是要注意一下我覺得有點在玩文字遊戲而且當天晚上在發這個我是覺得有點在誤導民眾那這個我覺得還是要稍微注意一下那還有針對我們\n\n7\n00:02:38,200 --> 00:03:00,427\n風災後廢棄的光電板我們現在到底還有光電板還有多少沒有處理我們看一下我們這個新婚制紅池它是業者是永新能源那據我們了解永新能源應該是雲豹的子公司那在7月15號有去巡檢過後來好像就沒有再去稽查\n\n8\n00:03:01,047 --> 00:03:27,068\n那我們看了一下他是當時是開罰100萬然後100萬可是他的稽查的記錄是說不需要改善然後當然目前我們查結果錢也沒有繳然後後來在9月16號環境部書面回覆我們說新聞志鴻池佔自1萬片那結果我們看9月19號這個新聞\n\n9\n00:03:30,031 --> 00:03:57,421\n媒體有去現場看說也看到現場還有光電板泡在水裡而且還有很多廢棄物還埋在土裡那後來經濟部在10月7號的書面又回覆我們說暫至三萬三千片那其實我們就搞不懂一下環境部說9月16號說暫至一萬片結果經濟部又回覆我們說暫至三萬三千片然後經濟部又在10月16號新聞稿\n\n10\n00:03:59,102 --> 00:04:28,369\n又跟我們講說7月24號已經清理完了民眾不要以而傳而我剛剛有聽到張綺凱委員針對這部分也有提出質詢那我不知道說這個到底環境部跟新聞環境部跟經濟部這個落差真的很大雖然那時候有講因為規格尺寸大小不一所以計算上有落差可是這1萬多的落差跟4萬多的落差實在是差太多了吧\n\n11\n00:04:29,887 --> 00:04:55,209\n包委這個可能是統計時間的不同的差別就我們來說的話我們9月6號去看是完全沒有在廢棄物的部分在那個暗場有一些呢他的完好無缺的他還擺在那個地方並沒有廢棄掉至於說可能又一個情況是說因為現場其實非常的亂特別是在9月5號之前所以他們在清的過程當中可能有一些\n\n12\n00:04:55,949 --> 00:05:19,902\n不小心埋在土裡面了所以其實有經過雨水沖刷有可能造成所以我這個禮拜會請我們同仁再去看一次再去檢查一次對啊部長你要看一下環境部9月16號說佔值1萬片經濟部10月7號變成3萬3千片不但沒有減少還變增加所以經濟部跟環境部這到底怎麼計算的\n\n13\n00:05:21,038 --> 00:05:37,584\n跟委員說明那個是10月7號回復了但是他引用的這個統計的時間我回去再查一下再跟你說明這裡面我們確實的這個回復的這個當時的這個時間點會有一個時間差的關係我想應該原因是在這個地方\n\n14\n00:05:38,244 --> 00:05:58,324\n可是前面9月多是说环境部说1万片10月多经济部变成3万多片上一次质询的时候说1万多片两个都1万多片说差几千片因为规格大小计算上可能有落差后来我们再去查你们回复是变成3万多片\n\n15\n00:05:59,389 --> 00:06:14,905\n所以我們真的很不了解現在這到底還有多少光電板沒有處理而且我們問現在這個戰志在哪裡環境部也說不知道經濟部也說不知道那我不知道你們怎麼稽查的\n\n16\n00:06:15,906 --> 00:06:43,007\n這個有一定的一個廢棄物存放的規定不過報告委員因為這個處理是地方的環保局在處理我們是在跟環保局在協同作業那我當然你現在問我在哪裡我當然不清楚但是我知道說它有存放一個地方在某一個工業區的工廠裡面那我們經濟部跟環境部都沒有去稽查嗎我們處理我們的當成廢棄物在處理那他們是關電太陽能關電的主管機關所以我們的處理的角度不大一樣\n\n17\n00:06:43,587 --> 00:06:53,684\n對啊你不知道在哪裡佔置那你怎麼去稽查我們當然清楚啊因為我們清楚在某一個存放的地點可是你們回覆都說你們都不知道環境部也不知道經濟部也說不知道\n\n18\n00:06:56,269 --> 00:07:17,896\n然後環境部還說要看新聞才知道我們在前端清運的部分有分為兩個程序第一個從水面清到旁邊的土地那現在到底站置在哪裡那現在的話應該是在我們回收廠商他的所謂的指定的這個倉庫這個地方所以你們也不知道在哪裡地方\n\n19\n00:07:18,836 --> 00:07:43,595\n所以我就很疑惑啊你都不知道那你怎麼積查到底實際數量到底誰去查的所以難怪你們落差那麼大連放在哪裡都不知道包委員有啦那個是在一個戰事場裡面那我們同仁知道但是這個東西其實我們會清楚這個來源但是不見得會對大眾說放在哪裡所以我希望了解一下啦難怪你看9月16號說剩1萬片10月7號經濟部說剩3萬多片然後兩個部會都不知道\n\n20\n00:07:48,419 --> 00:08:17,307\n放在哪里那你怎么稽查到底还有没有说不定更多根本完全都没有掌握啊那你再看新庄制红池也是好这个业者是源于太阳光电好那个时候我也有询问说环境部登记是源于光电那经济部登记是进金生能源那我说这样子登记可以吗你们到现在也没有回复然后后来八九月去巡查稽查\n\n21\n00:08:17,907 --> 00:08:46,280\n後來說喊開罰900萬後來聽說只罰了300萬說600萬因為有改善完成所以免罰那環境部在8月21號說園域還堆置三萬五千片在岸邊後來在9月16號就說只剩兩千片結果又來了經濟部10月7號又跟我們說暫至一萬七千片本來兩千片現在經濟部又說一萬五千片\n\n22\n00:08:47,386 --> 00:09:13,573\n然後經濟部還在10月16號馬上又再發新聞稿說在7月30號已經清完民眾不要以而傳而又來了又叫民眾不要以而傳而結果你們自己一下子2000片一下子變15000片然後又說7月30號已經處理完叫民眾不要以而傳而然後一樣站置地點一樣不知道然後媒體在10月17號\n\n23\n00:09:15,441 --> 00:09:32,933\n民眾跟媒體去現場看根本現場還凌亂不堪還有很多的碎片剛剛張祺凱委員書也有提供照片說他這裡是才去造的現場還有浮桶還有碎片還有很多的廢棄物那我們這個光電板到底處理得怎麼樣\n\n24\n00:09:34,773 --> 00:09:57,328\n我看經濟部跟環境部現在大家都搞不清楚包委員不會啦這個其實齁因為那個是一個很大面積開放的場域所以基本上清完之後有些他在這個當時我們去看那個岸邊都是爛泥啊爛泥所以可能有一些的確碎片或做什麼放在這個下面或是說他整個業者又回去了做什麼樣的事情我們不清楚因為我們是在時間點例如說9月6號去處理\n\n25\n00:09:59,649 --> 00:10:19,714\n我們也答應委員我們這個禮拜一定請我們同仁再去巡查過一次是不是有如張祺凱委員說的這樣的一個事實如果有這個事實我們就會開罰好你看先溫治紅池你們7月15號去巡檢之後開罰100萬後來稽查記錄我們也看說不需改善也還沒有繳清這個罰款\n\n26\n00:10:21,834 --> 00:10:47,220\n後來9月19媒體去看現場還光電板泡在那邊喔那我問你現在到底新聞自動詞到底處理乾淨了沒有現場已經處理乾淨了但是我剛跟委員講說他可能有一些散落到那個地方可能雜質因為水泥下雨沖刷之後跑出來的這個我這個禮拜會請同仁去觀察那我問一下他罰100萬不需要改善為什麼不需要改善當然要改善啊可是他稽查紀錄寫不需要改善啊\n\n27\n00:10:54,429 --> 00:11:18,409\n對啊又罰錢然後不須改善這我真的看不懂我們是罰的是廢清法這個是我們這個是依照這個電業的這個處理的相關規定再去做處理的那不須改善是什麼意思表示他已經改善完成所以不須改善嗎不是但是是依照廢清法的這個規定去裁判\n\n28\n00:11:20,089 --> 00:11:48,205\n不過委員這個他已經繳錢了啦他有繳錢好錢繳了那他罰100萬然後為什麼上面註明說不需改善然後後來9月19然後媒體去看光電板還泡在水裡啊然後現在問到底處理好沒有你們也說要再去現場看光電板泡在水裡這個事情要去確定是他好的光電板泡在水裡就是還在水面上還是壞掉的在水面上這個要有一個定義喔出來的那目前的確是壞掉的都已經移出這個水面上了\n\n29\n00:11:49,345 --> 00:12:11,903\n希望環境部跟經濟部針對這戰制的希望要有一個明確的數字啊這個差好幾萬片說規格尺寸大小不一這落差幾萬片也太誇張了給你的報告跟新聞之間混在一起所以造成這個數字的混淆就我的數字我看到的數字都是有在修正例如說原來最早是15萬片一直最後修到12.1萬片\n\n30\n00:12:12,824 --> 00:12:28,403\n那我希望這新聞志宏池跟新莊志宏池我們經濟部環境部再去現場徹底清查一下到底怎麼回事那媒體也報導10月17號也報導現場拍的照片啊那剛剛張綺凱說他自己去現場拍的啊然後\n\n31\n00:12:29,384 --> 00:12:47,840\n你看新莊志鴻池之前罰九百萬後來說改善了六百萬免罰那如果照你現在如果這個照片是真的而且我相信這媒體也去現場拍的啦那根本就沒改善啊那六百萬還要不要罰那個開罰是地方環保局在我們協助之下在開罰\n\n32\n00:12:48,581 --> 00:13:06,491\n那至於他有沒有罰什麼繳錢我們會跟環保局保持密切的聯繫在最後的確認那至於說他有沒有清完成因為委員這個是一個開放的場域誰都可以去所以我們會請同仁再去確認一下我希望部長針對這個幫我們徹底了解清楚因為我們覺得\n\n33\n00:13:07,732 --> 00:13:27,051\n這光電板這裡面牽扯的問題真的太多了而且我剛剛一直講喔上一次也問過環境部登一個同一個案場環境部登記的公司跟經紀部登記的公司居然不一樣這沒有問題嗎你們到現在也沒回覆然後說因為他改善完成所以600萬不用罰結果一報你看現場\n\n34\n00:13:30,214 --> 00:13:51,176\n浮桶碎片那個名稱不一樣是因為那個電業的登記申請的開發商然後後面的那個是所謂的運尾的這個廠商名稱是不一樣原因在這裡那另外一個部分我剛剛只去問一下我們的同仁他10月7號他就有去現場看不管是在水面\n\n35\n00:13:52,337 --> 00:14:06,404\n這個水面的部分還有包括在周邊原來指定的站準場的這個部分這裡面全部都已經大概都已經清除完了當然剛剛委員所說的早上那些的照片我們還要再去確認因為\n\n36\n00:14:07,925 --> 00:14:24,248\n我們去檢查的時候確實是沒有的好我覺得環境部經濟部真的這個溝通很重要9月16號環境部公布的總共1萬多片結果經濟部10月7號公布的4萬8千多片\n\n37\n00:14:25,109 --> 00:14:53,541\n這落差真的太大了那我覺得這個我們那時候還有講其實地方廠商也有在講因為這光電板的規格尺寸大小不一樣造成他們要回收處理造成非常非常的麻煩所以當然這個回收的量能絕對就會減慢它的速度所以我們講這規格尺寸真的要好好研議一下這個規格尺寸一樣到時候再回收處理\n\n38\n00:14:54,281 --> 00:15:05,254\n才會好處理才會迅速嘛好那還有我們今天有針對我們噪音管制法修法的部分\n\n39\n00:15:06,989 --> 00:15:29,735\n那我這邊也特別說明一下因為我們真的在地方接收到很多的陳情尤其桃園標車族非常猖獗長期干擾民眾夜間的安寧很多老人家或者上班族一被吵醒根本都沒辦法睡對於他們真的是很大的困擾所以我希望\n\n40\n00:15:30,715 --> 00:15:55,494\n交通部還有環境部應該怎麼研議這個取締的問題如何降低違規改裝還有青少年無照駕駛的問題我也希望部長針對這個罰則是不是要加重罰則加強取締不然這個問題真的困擾我相信台灣很多民眾對這個飆車族噪音的問題困擾大家很久了\n\n41\n00:15:56,305 --> 00:16:12,852\n好謝謝委員的建議這個我們就遵照大院要修法的指示我們本部願意配合辦理那這部分我也希望環境部還有交通部大家為民眾的這個夜間安眠能夠多幫忙好謝謝好謝謝好謝謝圖全紀委員的發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5461\t29859\t好 謝謝主席那請問彭部長還有賴次長好 有請彭部長 賴次長圖偉文好部長 我先請問一下像我們風災過後那個廠商如果跟環境部回報說這些光電板的處理情形已經全數清理完成了那清理完成是怎麼樣子要做清理完成\n30539\t57155\t包委員因為我們的這個我們會有我們這個管理中心南區管理中心例如這次是南區管理中心環境部管管署的然後結合地方環保局一起去查驗所以最後那一家在9月5號我們給他期限是9月5號完成我們9月6號有去全部案場再巡過一次那的確是沒有廢棄物所以這個部分我們是有一套程序在進行但是其實那應該叫做清運完成\n57355\t84429\t清運完成對你清理完成應該是指清運處理完成那你單就你看我們10月8號那時候我們衛環委員也有質詢針對光電板這個案子那後來晚上馬上就看到經濟部當天晚上8點半就發新聞稿說我們的廢棄的光電板已經全數清理完成而且其實我們那天質詢的時候部長\n85069\t107223\t也還在講其實還有一萬兩千片是佔置在其他的地方那可是晚上馬上經濟部就說全數清理完成這個我覺得好像在玩文字遊戲一般的民眾會感覺說好像我們光電板已經清理完了然後這個業者也已經都把它分解列解處理完成我覺得好像有一點在誤導民眾\n109211\t127169\t我們的清理是指的是說離開原有的案場回復它正常的環境的品質那就是清運嘛A點到B點你把它清除清運走所以我覺得說這個還是要注意一下因為我覺得有一點而且當天明明就講說還有一萬兩千片\n128010\t154015\t都還在暫置結果晚上就發新聞稿說已經全數清理完成不知道的民眾會覺得說我們環境部經濟部動作那麼快光電板已經全部都清理好了我覺得這個還是要注意一下我覺得有點在玩文字遊戲而且當天晚上在發這個我是覺得有點在誤導民眾那這個我覺得還是要稍微注意一下那還有針對我們\n158200\t180427\t風災後廢棄的光電板我們現在到底還有光電板還有多少沒有處理我們看一下我們這個新婚制紅池它是業者是永新能源那據我們了解永新能源應該是雲豹的子公司那在7月15號有去巡檢過後來好像就沒有再去稽查\n181047\t207068\t那我們看了一下 他是當時是開罰100萬然後100萬可是他的稽查的記錄是說不需要改善然後當然目前我們查結果錢也沒有繳然後後來在9月16號環境部書面回覆我們說新聞志鴻池佔自1萬片那結果我們看9月19號這個新聞\n210031\t237421\t媒體有去現場看說也看到現場還有光電板泡在水裡而且還有很多廢棄物還埋在土裡那後來經濟部在10月7號的書面又回覆我們說暫至三萬三千片那其實我們就搞不懂一下環境部說9月16號說暫至一萬片結果經濟部又回覆我們說暫至三萬三千片然後經濟部又在10月16號新聞稿\n239102\t268369\t又跟我們講說7月24號已經清理完了民眾不要以而傳而我剛剛有聽到張綺凱委員針對這部分也有提出質詢那我不知道說這個到底環境部跟新聞環境部跟經濟部這個落差真的很大雖然那時候有講因為規格尺寸大小不一所以計算上有落差可是這1萬多的落差跟4萬多的落差實在是差太多了吧\n269887\t295209\t包委 這個可能是統計時間的不同的差別就我們來說的話我們9月6號去看是完全沒有在廢棄物的部分在那個暗場有一些呢 他的完好無缺的他還擺在那個地方並沒有廢棄掉至於說可能又一個情況是說因為現場其實非常的亂特別是在9月5號之前所以他們在清的過程當中可能有一些\n295949\t319902\t不小心埋在土裡面了所以其實有經過雨水沖刷有可能造成所以我這個禮拜會請我們同仁再去看一次 再去檢查一次對啊 部長你要看一下環境部9月16號說佔值1萬片經濟部10月7號變成3萬3千片不但沒有減少 還變增加所以經濟部跟環境部這到底怎麼計算的\n321038\t337584\t跟委員說明那個是10月7號回復了但是他引用的這個統計的時間我回去再查一下再跟你說明這裡面我們確實的這個回復的這個當時的這個時間點會有一個時間差的關係我想應該原因是在這個地方\n338244\t358324\t可是前面9月多是说环境部说1万片10月多经济部变成3万多片上一次质询的时候说1万多片两个都1万多片说差几千片因为规格大小计算上可能有落差后来我们再去查你们回复是变成3万多片\n359389\t374905\t所以我們真的很不了解現在這到底還有多少光電板沒有處理而且我們問現在這個戰志在哪裡環境部也說不知道經濟部也說不知道那我不知道你們怎麼稽查的\n375906\t403007\t這個有一定的一個廢棄物存放的規定不過 報告委員因為這個處理是地方的環保局在處理我們是在跟環保局在協同作業那我當然你現在問我在哪裡我當然不清楚但是我知道說它有存放一個地方在某一個工業區的工廠裡面那我們經濟部跟環境部都沒有去稽查嗎我們處理我們的當成廢棄物在處理那他們是關電太陽能關電的主管機關所以我們的處理的角度不大一樣\n403587\t413684\t對啊你不知道在哪裡佔置那你怎麼去稽查我們當然清楚啊因為我們清楚在某一個存放的地點可是你們回覆都說你們都不知道環境部也不知道經濟部也說不知道\n416269\t437896\t然後環境部還說要看新聞才知道我們在前端清運的部分有分為兩個程序第一個從水面清到旁邊的土地那現在到底站置在哪裡那現在的話應該是在我們回收廠商他的所謂的指定的這個倉庫這個地方所以你們也不知道在哪裡地方\n438836\t463595\t所以我就很疑惑啊你都不知道那你怎麼積查到底實際數量到底誰去查的所以難怪你們落差那麼大連放在哪裡都不知道包委員有啦那個是在一個戰事場裡面那我們同仁知道但是這個東西其實我們會清楚這個來源但是不見得會對大眾說放在哪裡所以我希望了解一下啦難怪你看9月16號說剩1萬片10月7號經濟部說剩3萬多片然後兩個部會都不知道\n468419\t497307\t放在哪里那你怎么稽查到底还有没有说不定更多根本完全都没有掌握啊那你再看新庄制红池也是好这个业者是源于太阳光电好那个时候我也有询问说环境部登记是源于光电那经济部登记是进金生能源那我说这样子登记可以吗你们到现在也没有回复然后后来八九月去巡查稽查\n497907\t526280\t後來說喊開罰900萬後來聽說只罰了300萬說600萬因為有改善完成所以免罰那環境部在8月21號說園域還堆置三萬五千片在岸邊後來在9月16號就說只剩兩千片結果又來了經濟部10月7號又跟我們說暫至一萬七千片本來兩千片現在經濟部又說一萬五千片\n527386\t553573\t然後經濟部還在10月16號馬上又再發新聞稿說在7月30號已經清完民眾不要以而傳而 又來了又叫民眾不要以而傳而 結果你們自己一下子2000片 一下子變15000片然後又說7月30號已經處理完叫民眾不要以而傳而然後一樣 站置地點 一樣不知道然後媒體在10月17號\n555441\t572933\t民眾跟媒體去現場看根本現場還凌亂不堪還有很多的碎片剛剛張祺凱委員書也有提供照片說他這裡是才去造的現場還有浮桶 還有碎片還有很多的廢棄物那我們這個光電板到底處理得怎麼樣\n574773\t597328\t我看經濟部跟環境部現在大家都搞不清楚包委員不會啦 這個其實齁因為那個是一個很大面積開放的場域所以基本上清完之後有些他在這個當時我們去看那個岸邊都是爛泥啊爛泥 所以可能有一些的確碎片或做什麼放在這個下面或是說他整個業者又回去了做什麼樣的事情 我們不清楚因為我們是在時間點 例如說9月6號去處理\n599649\t619714\t我們也答應委員 我們這個禮拜一定請我們同仁再去巡查過一次是不是有如張祺凱委員說的這樣的一個事實如果有這個事實 我們就會開罰好 你看 先溫治紅池 你們7月15號去巡檢之後開罰100萬後來稽查記錄我們也看 說不需改善也還沒有繳清這個罰款\n621834\t647220\t後來9月19 媒體去看現場還光電板泡在那邊喔那我問你 現在到底新聞自動詞到底處理乾淨了沒有現場已經處理乾淨了但是我剛跟委員講說他可能有一些散落到那個地方可能雜質 因為水泥下雨沖刷之後跑出來的這個我這個禮拜會請同仁去觀察那我問一下 他罰100萬不需要改善為什麼不需要改善當然要改善啊可是他稽查紀錄寫不需要改善啊\n654429\t678409\t對啊 又罰錢然後不須改善 這我真的看不懂我們是罰的是廢清法 這個是我們這個是依照這個電業的這個處理的相關規定再去做處理的那不須改善是什麼意思表示他已經改善完成 所以不須改善嗎不是 但是是依照廢清法的這個規定去裁判\n680089\t708205\t不過委員 這個他已經繳錢了啦 他有繳錢好 錢繳了 那他罰100萬 然後為什麼上面註明說不需改善然後後來9月19 然後媒體去看光電板還泡在水裡啊然後現在問到底處理好沒有 你們也說要再去現場看光電板泡在水裡 這個事情要去確定是他好的光電板泡在水裡 就是還在水面上還是壞掉的在水面上 這個要有一個定義喔 出來的那目前的確是壞掉的都已經移出這個水面上了\n709345\t731903\t希望環境部跟經濟部針對這戰制的希望要有一個明確的數字啊這個差好幾萬片說規格尺寸大小不一這落差幾萬片也太誇張了給你的報告跟新聞之間混在一起所以造成這個數字的混淆就我的數字我看到的數字都是有在修正例如說原來最早是15萬片一直最後修到12.1萬片\n732824\t748403\t那我希望這新聞志宏池跟新莊志宏池我們經濟部環境部再去現場徹底清查一下到底怎麼回事那媒體也報導10月17號也報導現場拍的照片啊那剛剛張綺凱說他自己去現場拍的啊然後\n749384\t767840\t你看新莊志鴻池之前罰九百萬後來說改善了六百萬免罰那如果照你現在如果這個照片是真的而且我相信這媒體也去現場拍的啦那根本就沒改善啊那六百萬還要不要罰那個開罰是地方環保局在我們協助之下在開罰\n768581\t786491\t那至於他有沒有罰什麼繳錢我們會跟環保局保持密切的聯繫在最後的確認那至於說他有沒有清完成因為委員這個是一個開放的場域誰都可以去所以我們會請同仁再去確認一下我希望部長針對這個幫我們徹底了解清楚因為我們覺得\n787732\t807051\t這光電板這裡面牽扯的問題真的太多了而且我剛剛一直講喔上一次也問過環境部登一個同一個案場環境部登記的公司跟經紀部登記的公司居然不一樣這沒有問題嗎你們到現在也沒回覆然後說因為他改善完成所以600萬不用罰結果一報你看現場\n810214\t831176\t浮桶 碎片 那個名稱不一樣是因為那個電業的登記申請的開發商然後後面的那個是所謂的運尾的這個廠商名稱是不一樣原因在這裡那另外一個部分我剛剛只去問一下我們的同仁他10月7號他就有去現場看不管是在水面\n832337\t846404\t這個水面的部分還有包括在周邊原來指定的站準場的這個部分這裡面全部都已經大概都已經清除完了當然剛剛委員所說的早上那些的照片我們還要再去確認因為\n847925\t864248\t我們去檢查的時候確實是沒有的好 我覺得環境部 經濟部真的這個溝通很重要9月16號環境部公布的總共1萬多片結果經濟部10月7號公布的4萬8千多片\n865109\t893541\t這落差真的太大了那我覺得這個我們那時候還有講其實地方廠商也有在講因為這光電板的規格尺寸大小不一樣造成他們要回收處理造成非常非常的麻煩所以當然這個回收的量能絕對就會減慢它的速度所以我們講這規格尺寸真的要好好研議一下這個規格尺寸一樣到時候再回收處理\n894281\t905254\t才會好處理才會迅速嘛好那還有我們今天有針對我們噪音管制法修法的部分\n906989\t929735\t那我這邊也特別說明一下因為我們真的在地方接收到很多的陳情尤其桃園標車族非常猖獗長期干擾民眾夜間的安寧很多老人家或者上班族一被吵醒根本都沒辦法睡對於他們真的是很大的困擾所以我希望\n930715\t955494\t交通部還有環境部應該怎麼研議這個取締的問題如何降低違規改裝還有青少年無照駕駛的問題我也希望部長針對這個罰則是不是要加重罰則加強取締不然這個問題真的困擾我相信台灣很多民眾對這個飆車族噪音的問題困擾大家很久了\n956305\t972852\t好 謝謝委員的建議這個我們就遵照大院要修法的指示我們本部願意配合辦理那這部分我也希望環境部還有交通部大家為民眾的這個夜間安眠能夠多幫忙好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝圖全紀委員的發言\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席那請問彭部長還有賴次長好 有請彭部長 賴次長圖偉文好部長 我先請問一下像我們風災過後那個廠商如果跟環境部回報說這些光電板的處理情形已經全數清理完成了那清理完成是怎麼樣子要做清理完成\n包委員因為我們的這個我們會有我們這個管理中心南區管理中心例如這次是南區管理中心環境部管管署的然後結合地方環保局一起去查驗所以最後那一家在9月5號我們給他期限是9月5號完成我們9月6號有去全部案場再巡過一次那的確是沒有廢棄物所以這個部分我們是有一套程序在進行但是其實那應該叫做清運完成\n清運完成對你清理完成應該是指清運處理完成那你單就你看我們10月8號那時候我們衛環委員也有質詢針對光電板這個案子那後來晚上馬上就看到經濟部當天晚上8點半就發新聞稿說我們的廢棄的光電板已經全數清理完成而且其實我們那天質詢的時候部長\n也還在講其實還有一萬兩千片是佔置在其他的地方那可是晚上馬上經濟部就說全數清理完成這個我覺得好像在玩文字遊戲一般的民眾會感覺說好像我們光電板已經清理完了然後這個業者也已經都把它分解列解處理完成我覺得好像有一點在誤導民眾\n我們的清理是指的是說離開原有的案場回復它正常的環境的品質那就是清運嘛A點到B點你把它清除清運走所以我覺得說這個還是要注意一下因為我覺得有一點而且當天明明就講說還有一萬兩千片\n都還在暫置結果晚上就發新聞稿說已經全數清理完成不知道的民眾會覺得說我們環境部經濟部動作那麼快光電板已經全部都清理好了我覺得這個還是要注意一下我覺得有點在玩文字遊戲而且當天晚上在發這個我是覺得有點在誤導民眾那這個我覺得還是要稍微注意一下那還有針對我們\n風災後廢棄的光電板我們現在到底還有光電板還有多少沒有處理我們看一下我們這個新婚制紅池它是業者是永新能源那據我們了解永新能源應該是雲豹的子公司那在7月15號有去巡檢過後來好像就沒有再去稽查\n那我們看了一下 他是當時是開罰100萬然後100萬可是他的稽查的記錄是說不需要改善然後當然目前我們查結果錢也沒有繳然後後來在9月16號環境部書面回覆我們說新聞志鴻池佔自1萬片那結果我們看9月19號這個新聞\n媒體有去現場看說也看到現場還有光電板泡在水裡而且還有很多廢棄物還埋在土裡那後來經濟部在10月7號的書面又回覆我們說暫至三萬三千片那其實我們就搞不懂一下環境部說9月16號說暫至一萬片結果經濟部又回覆我們說暫至三萬三千片然後經濟部又在10月16號新聞稿\n又跟我們講說7月24號已經清理完了民眾不要以而傳而我剛剛有聽到張綺凱委員針對這部分也有提出質詢那我不知道說這個到底環境部跟新聞環境部跟經濟部這個落差真的很大雖然那時候有講因為規格尺寸大小不一所以計算上有落差可是這1萬多的落差跟4萬多的落差實在是差太多了吧\n包委 這個可能是統計時間的不同的差別就我們來說的話我們9月6號去看是完全沒有在廢棄物的部分在那個暗場有一些呢 他的完好無缺的他還擺在那個地方並沒有廢棄掉至於說可能又一個情況是說因為現場其實非常的亂特別是在9月5號之前所以他們在清的過程當中可能有一些\n不小心埋在土裡面了所以其實有經過雨水沖刷有可能造成所以我這個禮拜會請我們同仁再去看一次 再去檢查一次對啊 部長你要看一下環境部9月16號說佔值1萬片經濟部10月7號變成3萬3千片不但沒有減少 還變增加所以經濟部跟環境部這到底怎麼計算的\n跟委員說明那個是10月7號回復了但是他引用的這個統計的時間我回去再查一下再跟你說明這裡面我們確實的這個回復的這個當時的這個時間點會有一個時間差的關係我想應該原因是在這個地方\n可是前面9月多是说环境部说1万片10月多经济部变成3万多片上一次质询的时候说1万多片两个都1万多片说差几千片因为规格大小计算上可能有落差后来我们再去查你们回复是变成3万多片\n所以我們真的很不了解現在這到底還有多少光電板沒有處理而且我們問現在這個戰志在哪裡環境部也說不知道經濟部也說不知道那我不知道你們怎麼稽查的\n這個有一定的一個廢棄物存放的規定不過 報告委員因為這個處理是地方的環保局在處理我們是在跟環保局在協同作業那我當然你現在問我在哪裡我當然不清楚但是我知道說它有存放一個地方在某一個工業區的工廠裡面那我們經濟部跟環境部都沒有去稽查嗎我們處理我們的當成廢棄物在處理那他們是關電太陽能關電的主管機關所以我們的處理的角度不大一樣\n對啊你不知道在哪裡佔置那你怎麼去稽查我們當然清楚啊因為我們清楚在某一個存放的地點可是你們回覆都說你們都不知道環境部也不知道經濟部也說不知道\n然後環境部還說要看新聞才知道我們在前端清運的部分有分為兩個程序第一個從水面清到旁邊的土地那現在到底站置在哪裡那現在的話應該是在我們回收廠商他的所謂的指定的這個倉庫這個地方所以你們也不知道在哪裡地方\n所以我就很疑惑啊你都不知道那你怎麼積查到底實際數量到底誰去查的所以難怪你們落差那麼大連放在哪裡都不知道包委員有啦那個是在一個戰事場裡面那我們同仁知道但是這個東西其實我們會清楚這個來源但是不見得會對大眾說放在哪裡所以我希望了解一下啦難怪你看9月16號說剩1萬片10月7號經濟部說剩3萬多片然後兩個部會都不知道\n放在哪里那你怎么稽查到底还有没有说不定更多根本完全都没有掌握啊那你再看新庄制红池也是好这个业者是源于太阳光电好那个时候我也有询问说环境部登记是源于光电那经济部登记是进金生能源那我说这样子登记可以吗你们到现在也没有回复然后后来八九月去巡查稽查\n後來說喊開罰900萬後來聽說只罰了300萬說600萬因為有改善完成所以免罰那環境部在8月21號說園域還堆置三萬五千片在岸邊後來在9月16號就說只剩兩千片結果又來了經濟部10月7號又跟我們說暫至一萬七千片本來兩千片現在經濟部又說一萬五千片\n然後經濟部還在10月16號馬上又再發新聞稿說在7月30號已經清完民眾不要以而傳而 又來了又叫民眾不要以而傳而 結果你們自己一下子2000片 一下子變15000片然後又說7月30號已經處理完叫民眾不要以而傳而然後一樣 站置地點 一樣不知道然後媒體在10月17號\n民眾跟媒體去現場看根本現場還凌亂不堪還有很多的碎片剛剛張祺凱委員書也有提供照片說他這裡是才去造的現場還有浮桶 還有碎片還有很多的廢棄物那我們這個光電板到底處理得怎麼樣\n我看經濟部跟環境部現在大家都搞不清楚包委員不會啦 這個其實齁因為那個是一個很大面積開放的場域所以基本上清完之後有些他在這個當時我們去看那個岸邊都是爛泥啊爛泥 所以可能有一些的確碎片或做什麼放在這個下面或是說他整個業者又回去了做什麼樣的事情 我們不清楚因為我們是在時間點 例如說9月6號去處理\n我們也答應委員 我們這個禮拜一定請我們同仁再去巡查過一次是不是有如張祺凱委員說的這樣的一個事實如果有這個事實 我們就會開罰好 你看 先溫治紅池 你們7月15號去巡檢之後開罰100萬後來稽查記錄我們也看 說不需改善也還沒有繳清這個罰款\n後來9月19 媒體去看現場還光電板泡在那邊喔那我問你 現在到底新聞自動詞到底處理乾淨了沒有現場已經處理乾淨了但是我剛跟委員講說他可能有一些散落到那個地方可能雜質 因為水泥下雨沖刷之後跑出來的這個我這個禮拜會請同仁去觀察那我問一下 他罰100萬不需要改善為什麼不需要改善當然要改善啊可是他稽查紀錄寫不需要改善啊\n對啊 又罰錢然後不須改善 這我真的看不懂我們是罰的是廢清法 這個是我們這個是依照這個電業的這個處理的相關規定再去做處理的那不須改善是什麼意思表示他已經改善完成 所以不須改善嗎不是 但是是依照廢清法的這個規定去裁判\n不過委員 這個他已經繳錢了啦 他有繳錢好 錢繳了 那他罰100萬 然後為什麼上面註明說不需改善然後後來9月19 然後媒體去看光電板還泡在水裡啊然後現在問到底處理好沒有 你們也說要再去現場看光電板泡在水裡 這個事情要去確定是他好的光電板泡在水裡 就是還在水面上還是壞掉的在水面上 這個要有一個定義喔 出來的那目前的確是壞掉的都已經移出這個水面上了\n希望環境部跟經濟部針對這戰制的希望要有一個明確的數字啊這個差好幾萬片說規格尺寸大小不一這落差幾萬片也太誇張了給你的報告跟新聞之間混在一起所以造成這個數字的混淆就我的數字我看到的數字都是有在修正例如說原來最早是15萬片一直最後修到12.1萬片\n那我希望這新聞志宏池跟新莊志宏池我們經濟部環境部再去現場徹底清查一下到底怎麼回事那媒體也報導10月17號也報導現場拍的照片啊那剛剛張綺凱說他自己去現場拍的啊然後\n你看新莊志鴻池之前罰九百萬後來說改善了六百萬免罰那如果照你現在如果這個照片是真的而且我相信這媒體也去現場拍的啦那根本就沒改善啊那六百萬還要不要罰那個開罰是地方環保局在我們協助之下在開罰\n那至於他有沒有罰什麼繳錢我們會跟環保局保持密切的聯繫在最後的確認那至於說他有沒有清完成因為委員這個是一個開放的場域誰都可以去所以我們會請同仁再去確認一下我希望部長針對這個幫我們徹底了解清楚因為我們覺得\n這光電板這裡面牽扯的問題真的太多了而且我剛剛一直講喔上一次也問過環境部登一個同一個案場環境部登記的公司跟經紀部登記的公司居然不一樣這沒有問題嗎你們到現在也沒回覆然後說因為他改善完成所以600萬不用罰結果一報你看現場\n浮桶 碎片 那個名稱不一樣是因為那個電業的登記申請的開發商然後後面的那個是所謂的運尾的這個廠商名稱是不一樣原因在這裡那另外一個部分我剛剛只去問一下我們的同仁他10月7號他就有去現場看不管是在水面\n這個水面的部分還有包括在周邊原來指定的站準場的這個部分這裡面全部都已經大概都已經清除完了當然剛剛委員所說的早上那些的照片我們還要再去確認因為\n我們去檢查的時候確實是沒有的好 我覺得環境部 經濟部真的這個溝通很重要9月16號環境部公布的總共1萬多片結果經濟部10月7號公布的4萬8千多片\n這落差真的太大了那我覺得這個我們那時候還有講其實地方廠商也有在講因為這光電板的規格尺寸大小不一樣造成他們要回收處理造成非常非常的麻煩所以當然這個回收的量能絕對就會減慢它的速度所以我們講這規格尺寸真的要好好研議一下這個規格尺寸一樣到時候再回收處理\n才會好處理才會迅速嘛好那還有我們今天有針對我們噪音管制法修法的部分\n那我這邊也特別說明一下因為我們真的在地方接收到很多的陳情尤其桃園標車族非常猖獗長期干擾民眾夜間的安寧很多老人家或者上班族一被吵醒根本都沒辦法睡對於他們真的是很大的困擾所以我希望\n交通部還有環境部應該怎麼研議這個取締的問題如何降低違規改裝還有青少年無照駕駛的問題我也希望部長針對這個罰則是不是要加重罰則加強取締不然這個問題真的困擾我相信台灣很多民眾對這個飆車族噪音的問題困擾大家很久了\n好 謝謝委員的建議這個我們就遵照大院要修法的指示我們本部願意配合辦理那這部分我也希望環境部還有交通部大家為民眾的這個夜間安眠能夠多幫忙好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝圖全紀委員的發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.461 --> 00:29.859\n好謝謝主席那請問彭部長還有賴次長好有請彭部長賴次長圖偉文好部長我先請問一下像我們風災過後那個廠商如果跟環境部回報說這些光電板的處理情形已經全數清理完成了那清理完成是怎麼樣子要做清理完成\n\n00:30.539 --> 00:57.155\n包委員因為我們的這個我們會有我們這個管理中心南區管理中心例如這次是南區管理中心環境部管管署的然後結合地方環保局一起去查驗所以最後那一家在9月5號我們給他期限是9月5號完成我們9月6號有去全部案場再巡過一次那的確是沒有廢棄物所以這個部分我們是有一套程序在進行但是其實那應該叫做清運完成\n\n00:57.355 --> 01:24.429\n清運完成對你清理完成應該是指清運處理完成那你單就你看我們10月8號那時候我們衛環委員也有質詢針對光電板這個案子那後來晚上馬上就看到經濟部當天晚上8點半就發新聞稿說我們的廢棄的光電板已經全數清理完成而且其實我們那天質詢的時候部長\n\n01:25.069 --> 01:47.223\n也還在講其實還有一萬兩千片是佔置在其他的地方那可是晚上馬上經濟部就說全數清理完成這個我覺得好像在玩文字遊戲一般的民眾會感覺說好像我們光電板已經清理完了然後這個業者也已經都把它分解列解處理完成我覺得好像有一點在誤導民眾\n\n01:49.211 --> 02:07.169\n我們的清理是指的是說離開原有的案場回復它正常的環境的品質那就是清運嘛A點到B點你把它清除清運走所以我覺得說這個還是要注意一下因為我覺得有一點而且當天明明就講說還有一萬兩千片\n\n02:08.010 --> 02:34.015\n都還在暫置結果晚上就發新聞稿說已經全數清理完成不知道的民眾會覺得說我們環境部經濟部動作那麼快光電板已經全部都清理好了我覺得這個還是要注意一下我覺得有點在玩文字遊戲而且當天晚上在發這個我是覺得有點在誤導民眾那這個我覺得還是要稍微注意一下那還有針對我們\n\n02:38.200 --> 03:00.427\n風災後廢棄的光電板我們現在到底還有光電板還有多少沒有處理我們看一下我們這個新婚制紅池它是業者是永新能源那據我們了解永新能源應該是雲豹的子公司那在7月15號有去巡檢過後來好像就沒有再去稽查\n\n03:01.047 --> 03:27.068\n那我們看了一下他是當時是開罰100萬然後100萬可是他的稽查的記錄是說不需要改善然後當然目前我們查結果錢也沒有繳然後後來在9月16號環境部書面回覆我們說新聞志鴻池佔自1萬片那結果我們看9月19號這個新聞\n\n03:30.031 --> 03:57.421\n媒體有去現場看說也看到現場還有光電板泡在水裡而且還有很多廢棄物還埋在土裡那後來經濟部在10月7號的書面又回覆我們說暫至三萬三千片那其實我們就搞不懂一下環境部說9月16號說暫至一萬片結果經濟部又回覆我們說暫至三萬三千片然後經濟部又在10月16號新聞稿\n\n03:59.102 --> 04:28.369\n又跟我們講說7月24號已經清理完了民眾不要以而傳而我剛剛有聽到張綺凱委員針對這部分也有提出質詢那我不知道說這個到底環境部跟新聞環境部跟經濟部這個落差真的很大雖然那時候有講因為規格尺寸大小不一所以計算上有落差可是這1萬多的落差跟4萬多的落差實在是差太多了吧\n\n04:29.887 --> 04:55.209\n包委這個可能是統計時間的不同的差別就我們來說的話我們9月6號去看是完全沒有在廢棄物的部分在那個暗場有一些呢他的完好無缺的他還擺在那個地方並沒有廢棄掉至於說可能又一個情況是說因為現場其實非常的亂特別是在9月5號之前所以他們在清的過程當中可能有一些\n\n04:55.949 --> 05:19.902\n不小心埋在土裡面了所以其實有經過雨水沖刷有可能造成所以我這個禮拜會請我們同仁再去看一次再去檢查一次對啊部長你要看一下環境部9月16號說佔值1萬片經濟部10月7號變成3萬3千片不但沒有減少還變增加所以經濟部跟環境部這到底怎麼計算的\n\n05:21.038 --> 05:37.584\n跟委員說明那個是10月7號回復了但是他引用的這個統計的時間我回去再查一下再跟你說明這裡面我們確實的這個回復的這個當時的這個時間點會有一個時間差的關係我想應該原因是在這個地方\n\n05:38.244 --> 05:58.324\n可是前面9月多是说环境部说1万片10月多经济部变成3万多片上一次质询的时候说1万多片两个都1万多片说差几千片因为规格大小计算上可能有落差后来我们再去查你们回复是变成3万多片\n\n05:59.389 --> 06:14.905\n所以我們真的很不了解現在這到底還有多少光電板沒有處理而且我們問現在這個戰志在哪裡環境部也說不知道經濟部也說不知道那我不知道你們怎麼稽查的\n\n06:15.906 --> 06:43.007\n這個有一定的一個廢棄物存放的規定不過報告委員因為這個處理是地方的環保局在處理我們是在跟環保局在協同作業那我當然你現在問我在哪裡我當然不清楚但是我知道說它有存放一個地方在某一個工業區的工廠裡面那我們經濟部跟環境部都沒有去稽查嗎我們處理我們的當成廢棄物在處理那他們是關電太陽能關電的主管機關所以我們的處理的角度不大一樣\n\n06:43.587 --> 06:53.684\n對啊你不知道在哪裡佔置那你怎麼去稽查我們當然清楚啊因為我們清楚在某一個存放的地點可是你們回覆都說你們都不知道環境部也不知道經濟部也說不知道\n\n06:56.269 --> 07:17.896\n然後環境部還說要看新聞才知道我們在前端清運的部分有分為兩個程序第一個從水面清到旁邊的土地那現在到底站置在哪裡那現在的話應該是在我們回收廠商他的所謂的指定的這個倉庫這個地方所以你們也不知道在哪裡地方\n\n07:18.836 --> 07:43.595\n所以我就很疑惑啊你都不知道那你怎麼積查到底實際數量到底誰去查的所以難怪你們落差那麼大連放在哪裡都不知道包委員有啦那個是在一個戰事場裡面那我們同仁知道但是這個東西其實我們會清楚這個來源但是不見得會對大眾說放在哪裡所以我希望了解一下啦難怪你看9月16號說剩1萬片10月7號經濟部說剩3萬多片然後兩個部會都不知道\n\n07:48.419 --> 08:17.307\n放在哪里那你怎么稽查到底还有没有说不定更多根本完全都没有掌握啊那你再看新庄制红池也是好这个业者是源于太阳光电好那个时候我也有询问说环境部登记是源于光电那经济部登记是进金生能源那我说这样子登记可以吗你们到现在也没有回复然后后来八九月去巡查稽查\n\n08:17.907 --> 08:46.280\n後來說喊開罰900萬後來聽說只罰了300萬說600萬因為有改善完成所以免罰那環境部在8月21號說園域還堆置三萬五千片在岸邊後來在9月16號就說只剩兩千片結果又來了經濟部10月7號又跟我們說暫至一萬七千片本來兩千片現在經濟部又說一萬五千片\n\n08:47.386 --> 09:13.573\n然後經濟部還在10月16號馬上又再發新聞稿說在7月30號已經清完民眾不要以而傳而又來了又叫民眾不要以而傳而結果你們自己一下子2000片一下子變15000片然後又說7月30號已經處理完叫民眾不要以而傳而然後一樣站置地點一樣不知道然後媒體在10月17號\n\n09:15.441 --> 09:32.933\n民眾跟媒體去現場看根本現場還凌亂不堪還有很多的碎片剛剛張祺凱委員書也有提供照片說他這裡是才去造的現場還有浮桶還有碎片還有很多的廢棄物那我們這個光電板到底處理得怎麼樣\n\n09:34.773 --> 09:57.328\n我看經濟部跟環境部現在大家都搞不清楚包委員不會啦這個其實齁因為那個是一個很大面積開放的場域所以基本上清完之後有些他在這個當時我們去看那個岸邊都是爛泥啊爛泥所以可能有一些的確碎片或做什麼放在這個下面或是說他整個業者又回去了做什麼樣的事情我們不清楚因為我們是在時間點例如說9月6號去處理\n\n09:59.649 --> 10:19.714\n我們也答應委員我們這個禮拜一定請我們同仁再去巡查過一次是不是有如張祺凱委員說的這樣的一個事實如果有這個事實我們就會開罰好你看先溫治紅池你們7月15號去巡檢之後開罰100萬後來稽查記錄我們也看說不需改善也還沒有繳清這個罰款\n\n10:21.834 --> 10:47.220\n後來9月19媒體去看現場還光電板泡在那邊喔那我問你現在到底新聞自動詞到底處理乾淨了沒有現場已經處理乾淨了但是我剛跟委員講說他可能有一些散落到那個地方可能雜質因為水泥下雨沖刷之後跑出來的這個我這個禮拜會請同仁去觀察那我問一下他罰100萬不需要改善為什麼不需要改善當然要改善啊可是他稽查紀錄寫不需要改善啊\n\n10:54.429 --> 11:18.409\n對啊又罰錢然後不須改善這我真的看不懂我們是罰的是廢清法這個是我們這個是依照這個電業的這個處理的相關規定再去做處理的那不須改善是什麼意思表示他已經改善完成所以不須改善嗎不是但是是依照廢清法的這個規定去裁判\n\n11:20.089 --> 11:48.205\n不過委員這個他已經繳錢了啦他有繳錢好錢繳了那他罰100萬然後為什麼上面註明說不需改善然後後來9月19然後媒體去看光電板還泡在水裡啊然後現在問到底處理好沒有你們也說要再去現場看光電板泡在水裡這個事情要去確定是他好的光電板泡在水裡就是還在水面上還是壞掉的在水面上這個要有一個定義喔出來的那目前的確是壞掉的都已經移出這個水面上了\n\n11:49.345 --> 12:11.903\n希望環境部跟經濟部針對這戰制的希望要有一個明確的數字啊這個差好幾萬片說規格尺寸大小不一這落差幾萬片也太誇張了給你的報告跟新聞之間混在一起所以造成這個數字的混淆就我的數字我看到的數字都是有在修正例如說原來最早是15萬片一直最後修到12.1萬片\n\n12:12.824 --> 12:28.403\n那我希望這新聞志宏池跟新莊志宏池我們經濟部環境部再去現場徹底清查一下到底怎麼回事那媒體也報導10月17號也報導現場拍的照片啊那剛剛張綺凱說他自己去現場拍的啊然後\n\n12:29.384 --> 12:47.840\n你看新莊志鴻池之前罰九百萬後來說改善了六百萬免罰那如果照你現在如果這個照片是真的而且我相信這媒體也去現場拍的啦那根本就沒改善啊那六百萬還要不要罰那個開罰是地方環保局在我們協助之下在開罰\n\n12:48.581 --> 13:06.491\n那至於他有沒有罰什麼繳錢我們會跟環保局保持密切的聯繫在最後的確認那至於說他有沒有清完成因為委員這個是一個開放的場域誰都可以去所以我們會請同仁再去確認一下我希望部長針對這個幫我們徹底了解清楚因為我們覺得\n\n13:07.732 --> 13:27.051\n這光電板這裡面牽扯的問題真的太多了而且我剛剛一直講喔上一次也問過環境部登一個同一個案場環境部登記的公司跟經紀部登記的公司居然不一樣這沒有問題嗎你們到現在也沒回覆然後說因為他改善完成所以600萬不用罰結果一報你看現場\n\n13:30.214 --> 13:51.176\n浮桶碎片那個名稱不一樣是因為那個電業的登記申請的開發商然後後面的那個是所謂的運尾的這個廠商名稱是不一樣原因在這裡那另外一個部分我剛剛只去問一下我們的同仁他10月7號他就有去現場看不管是在水面\n\n13:52.337 --> 14:06.404\n這個水面的部分還有包括在周邊原來指定的站準場的這個部分這裡面全部都已經大概都已經清除完了當然剛剛委員所說的早上那些的照片我們還要再去確認因為\n\n14:07.925 --> 14:24.248\n我們去檢查的時候確實是沒有的好我覺得環境部經濟部真的這個溝通很重要9月16號環境部公布的總共1萬多片結果經濟部10月7號公布的4萬8千多片\n\n14:25.109 --> 14:53.541\n這落差真的太大了那我覺得這個我們那時候還有講其實地方廠商也有在講因為這光電板的規格尺寸大小不一樣造成他們要回收處理造成非常非常的麻煩所以當然這個回收的量能絕對就會減慢它的速度所以我們講這規格尺寸真的要好好研議一下這個規格尺寸一樣到時候再回收處理\n\n14:54.281 --> 15:05.254\n才會好處理才會迅速嘛好那還有我們今天有針對我們噪音管制法修法的部分\n\n15:06.989 --> 15:29.735\n那我這邊也特別說明一下因為我們真的在地方接收到很多的陳情尤其桃園標車族非常猖獗長期干擾民眾夜間的安寧很多老人家或者上班族一被吵醒根本都沒辦法睡對於他們真的是很大的困擾所以我希望\n\n15:30.715 --> 15:55.494\n交通部還有環境部應該怎麼研議這個取締的問題如何降低違規改裝還有青少年無照駕駛的問題我也希望部長針對這個罰則是不是要加重罰則加強取締不然這個問題真的困擾我相信台灣很多民眾對這個飆車族噪音的問題困擾大家很久了\n\n15:56.305 --> 16:12.852\n好謝謝委員的建議這個我們就遵照大院要修法的指示我們本部願意配合辦理那這部分我也希望環境部還有交通部大家為民眾的這個夜間安眠能夠多幫忙好謝謝好謝謝好謝謝圖全紀委員的發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.461,"end":29.859,"text":"好 謝謝主席那請問彭部長還有賴次長好 有請彭部長 賴次長圖偉文好部長 我先請問一下像我們風災過後那個廠商如果跟環境部回報說這些光電板的處理情形已經全數清理完成了那清理完成是怎麼樣子要做清理完成"},{"start":30.539,"end":57.155,"text":"包委員因為我們的這個我們會有我們這個管理中心南區管理中心例如這次是南區管理中心環境部管管署的然後結合地方環保局一起去查驗所以最後那一家在9月5號我們給他期限是9月5號完成我們9月6號有去全部案場再巡過一次那的確是沒有廢棄物所以這個部分我們是有一套程序在進行但是其實那應該叫做清運完成"},{"start":57.355,"end":84.429,"text":"清運完成對你清理完成應該是指清運處理完成那你單就你看我們10月8號那時候我們衛環委員也有質詢針對光電板這個案子那後來晚上馬上就看到經濟部當天晚上8點半就發新聞稿說我們的廢棄的光電板已經全數清理完成而且其實我們那天質詢的時候部長"},{"start":85.069,"end":107.223,"text":"也還在講其實還有一萬兩千片是佔置在其他的地方那可是晚上馬上經濟部就說全數清理完成這個我覺得好像在玩文字遊戲一般的民眾會感覺說好像我們光電板已經清理完了然後這個業者也已經都把它分解列解處理完成我覺得好像有一點在誤導民眾"},{"start":109.211,"end":127.169,"text":"我們的清理是指的是說離開原有的案場回復它正常的環境的品質那就是清運嘛A點到B點你把它清除清運走所以我覺得說這個還是要注意一下因為我覺得有一點而且當天明明就講說還有一萬兩千片"},{"start":128.01,"end":154.015,"text":"都還在暫置結果晚上就發新聞稿說已經全數清理完成不知道的民眾會覺得說我們環境部經濟部動作那麼快光電板已經全部都清理好了我覺得這個還是要注意一下我覺得有點在玩文字遊戲而且當天晚上在發這個我是覺得有點在誤導民眾那這個我覺得還是要稍微注意一下那還有針對我們"},{"start":158.2,"end":180.427,"text":"風災後廢棄的光電板我們現在到底還有光電板還有多少沒有處理我們看一下我們這個新婚制紅池它是業者是永新能源那據我們了解永新能源應該是雲豹的子公司那在7月15號有去巡檢過後來好像就沒有再去稽查"},{"start":181.047,"end":207.068,"text":"那我們看了一下 他是當時是開罰100萬然後100萬可是他的稽查的記錄是說不需要改善然後當然目前我們查結果錢也沒有繳然後後來在9月16號環境部書面回覆我們說新聞志鴻池佔自1萬片那結果我們看9月19號這個新聞"},{"start":210.031,"end":237.421,"text":"媒體有去現場看說也看到現場還有光電板泡在水裡而且還有很多廢棄物還埋在土裡那後來經濟部在10月7號的書面又回覆我們說暫至三萬三千片那其實我們就搞不懂一下環境部說9月16號說暫至一萬片結果經濟部又回覆我們說暫至三萬三千片然後經濟部又在10月16號新聞稿"},{"start":239.102,"end":268.369,"text":"又跟我們講說7月24號已經清理完了民眾不要以而傳而我剛剛有聽到張綺凱委員針對這部分也有提出質詢那我不知道說這個到底環境部跟新聞環境部跟經濟部這個落差真的很大雖然那時候有講因為規格尺寸大小不一所以計算上有落差可是這1萬多的落差跟4萬多的落差實在是差太多了吧"},{"start":269.887,"end":295.209,"text":"包委 這個可能是統計時間的不同的差別就我們來說的話我們9月6號去看是完全沒有在廢棄物的部分在那個暗場有一些呢 他的完好無缺的他還擺在那個地方並沒有廢棄掉至於說可能又一個情況是說因為現場其實非常的亂特別是在9月5號之前所以他們在清的過程當中可能有一些"},{"start":295.949,"end":319.902,"text":"不小心埋在土裡面了所以其實有經過雨水沖刷有可能造成所以我這個禮拜會請我們同仁再去看一次 再去檢查一次對啊 部長你要看一下環境部9月16號說佔值1萬片經濟部10月7號變成3萬3千片不但沒有減少 還變增加所以經濟部跟環境部這到底怎麼計算的"},{"start":321.038,"end":337.584,"text":"跟委員說明那個是10月7號回復了但是他引用的這個統計的時間我回去再查一下再跟你說明這裡面我們確實的這個回復的這個當時的這個時間點會有一個時間差的關係我想應該原因是在這個地方"},{"start":338.244,"end":358.324,"text":"可是前面9月多是说环境部说1万片10月多经济部变成3万多片上一次质询的时候说1万多片两个都1万多片说差几千片因为规格大小计算上可能有落差后来我们再去查你们回复是变成3万多片"},{"start":359.389,"end":374.905,"text":"所以我們真的很不了解現在這到底還有多少光電板沒有處理而且我們問現在這個戰志在哪裡環境部也說不知道經濟部也說不知道那我不知道你們怎麼稽查的"},{"start":375.906,"end":403.007,"text":"這個有一定的一個廢棄物存放的規定不過 報告委員因為這個處理是地方的環保局在處理我們是在跟環保局在協同作業那我當然你現在問我在哪裡我當然不清楚但是我知道說它有存放一個地方在某一個工業區的工廠裡面那我們經濟部跟環境部都沒有去稽查嗎我們處理我們的當成廢棄物在處理那他們是關電太陽能關電的主管機關所以我們的處理的角度不大一樣"},{"start":403.587,"end":413.684,"text":"對啊你不知道在哪裡佔置那你怎麼去稽查我們當然清楚啊因為我們清楚在某一個存放的地點可是你們回覆都說你們都不知道環境部也不知道經濟部也說不知道"},{"start":416.269,"end":437.896,"text":"然後環境部還說要看新聞才知道我們在前端清運的部分有分為兩個程序第一個從水面清到旁邊的土地那現在到底站置在哪裡那現在的話應該是在我們回收廠商他的所謂的指定的這個倉庫這個地方所以你們也不知道在哪裡地方"},{"start":438.836,"end":463.595,"text":"所以我就很疑惑啊你都不知道那你怎麼積查到底實際數量到底誰去查的所以難怪你們落差那麼大連放在哪裡都不知道包委員有啦那個是在一個戰事場裡面那我們同仁知道但是這個東西其實我們會清楚這個來源但是不見得會對大眾說放在哪裡所以我希望了解一下啦難怪你看9月16號說剩1萬片10月7號經濟部說剩3萬多片然後兩個部會都不知道"},{"start":468.419,"end":497.307,"text":"放在哪里那你怎么稽查到底还有没有说不定更多根本完全都没有掌握啊那你再看新庄制红池也是好这个业者是源于太阳光电好那个时候我也有询问说环境部登记是源于光电那经济部登记是进金生能源那我说这样子登记可以吗你们到现在也没有回复然后后来八九月去巡查稽查"},{"start":497.907,"end":526.28,"text":"後來說喊開罰900萬後來聽說只罰了300萬說600萬因為有改善完成所以免罰那環境部在8月21號說園域還堆置三萬五千片在岸邊後來在9月16號就說只剩兩千片結果又來了經濟部10月7號又跟我們說暫至一萬七千片本來兩千片現在經濟部又說一萬五千片"},{"start":527.386,"end":553.573,"text":"然後經濟部還在10月16號馬上又再發新聞稿說在7月30號已經清完民眾不要以而傳而 又來了又叫民眾不要以而傳而 結果你們自己一下子2000片 一下子變15000片然後又說7月30號已經處理完叫民眾不要以而傳而然後一樣 站置地點 一樣不知道然後媒體在10月17號"},{"start":555.441,"end":572.933,"text":"民眾跟媒體去現場看根本現場還凌亂不堪還有很多的碎片剛剛張祺凱委員書也有提供照片說他這裡是才去造的現場還有浮桶 還有碎片還有很多的廢棄物那我們這個光電板到底處理得怎麼樣"},{"start":574.773,"end":597.328,"text":"我看經濟部跟環境部現在大家都搞不清楚包委員不會啦 這個其實齁因為那個是一個很大面積開放的場域所以基本上清完之後有些他在這個當時我們去看那個岸邊都是爛泥啊爛泥 所以可能有一些的確碎片或做什麼放在這個下面或是說他整個業者又回去了做什麼樣的事情 我們不清楚因為我們是在時間點 例如說9月6號去處理"},{"start":599.649,"end":619.714,"text":"我們也答應委員 我們這個禮拜一定請我們同仁再去巡查過一次是不是有如張祺凱委員說的這樣的一個事實如果有這個事實 我們就會開罰好 你看 先溫治紅池 你們7月15號去巡檢之後開罰100萬後來稽查記錄我們也看 說不需改善也還沒有繳清這個罰款"},{"start":621.834,"end":647.22,"text":"後來9月19 媒體去看現場還光電板泡在那邊喔那我問你 現在到底新聞自動詞到底處理乾淨了沒有現場已經處理乾淨了但是我剛跟委員講說他可能有一些散落到那個地方可能雜質 因為水泥下雨沖刷之後跑出來的這個我這個禮拜會請同仁去觀察那我問一下 他罰100萬不需要改善為什麼不需要改善當然要改善啊可是他稽查紀錄寫不需要改善啊"},{"start":654.429,"end":678.409,"text":"對啊 又罰錢然後不須改善 這我真的看不懂我們是罰的是廢清法 這個是我們這個是依照這個電業的這個處理的相關規定再去做處理的那不須改善是什麼意思表示他已經改善完成 所以不須改善嗎不是 但是是依照廢清法的這個規定去裁判"},{"start":680.089,"end":708.205,"text":"不過委員 這個他已經繳錢了啦 他有繳錢好 錢繳了 那他罰100萬 然後為什麼上面註明說不需改善然後後來9月19 然後媒體去看光電板還泡在水裡啊然後現在問到底處理好沒有 你們也說要再去現場看光電板泡在水裡 這個事情要去確定是他好的光電板泡在水裡 就是還在水面上還是壞掉的在水面上 這個要有一個定義喔 出來的那目前的確是壞掉的都已經移出這個水面上了"},{"start":709.345,"end":731.903,"text":"希望環境部跟經濟部針對這戰制的希望要有一個明確的數字啊這個差好幾萬片說規格尺寸大小不一這落差幾萬片也太誇張了給你的報告跟新聞之間混在一起所以造成這個數字的混淆就我的數字我看到的數字都是有在修正例如說原來最早是15萬片一直最後修到12.1萬片"},{"start":732.824,"end":748.403,"text":"那我希望這新聞志宏池跟新莊志宏池我們經濟部環境部再去現場徹底清查一下到底怎麼回事那媒體也報導10月17號也報導現場拍的照片啊那剛剛張綺凱說他自己去現場拍的啊然後"},{"start":749.384,"end":767.84,"text":"你看新莊志鴻池之前罰九百萬後來說改善了六百萬免罰那如果照你現在如果這個照片是真的而且我相信這媒體也去現場拍的啦那根本就沒改善啊那六百萬還要不要罰那個開罰是地方環保局在我們協助之下在開罰"},{"start":768.581,"end":786.491,"text":"那至於他有沒有罰什麼繳錢我們會跟環保局保持密切的聯繫在最後的確認那至於說他有沒有清完成因為委員這個是一個開放的場域誰都可以去所以我們會請同仁再去確認一下我希望部長針對這個幫我們徹底了解清楚因為我們覺得"},{"start":787.732,"end":807.051,"text":"這光電板這裡面牽扯的問題真的太多了而且我剛剛一直講喔上一次也問過環境部登一個同一個案場環境部登記的公司跟經紀部登記的公司居然不一樣這沒有問題嗎你們到現在也沒回覆然後說因為他改善完成所以600萬不用罰結果一報你看現場"},{"start":810.214,"end":831.176,"text":"浮桶 碎片 那個名稱不一樣是因為那個電業的登記申請的開發商然後後面的那個是所謂的運尾的這個廠商名稱是不一樣原因在這裡那另外一個部分我剛剛只去問一下我們的同仁他10月7號他就有去現場看不管是在水面"},{"start":832.337,"end":846.404,"text":"這個水面的部分還有包括在周邊原來指定的站準場的這個部分這裡面全部都已經大概都已經清除完了當然剛剛委員所說的早上那些的照片我們還要再去確認因為"},{"start":847.925,"end":864.248,"text":"我們去檢查的時候確實是沒有的好 我覺得環境部 經濟部真的這個溝通很重要9月16號環境部公布的總共1萬多片結果經濟部10月7號公布的4萬8千多片"},{"start":865.109,"end":893.541,"text":"這落差真的太大了那我覺得這個我們那時候還有講其實地方廠商也有在講因為這光電板的規格尺寸大小不一樣造成他們要回收處理造成非常非常的麻煩所以當然這個回收的量能絕對就會減慢它的速度所以我們講這規格尺寸真的要好好研議一下這個規格尺寸一樣到時候再回收處理"},{"start":894.281,"end":905.254,"text":"才會好處理才會迅速嘛好那還有我們今天有針對我們噪音管制法修法的部分"},{"start":906.989,"end":929.735,"text":"那我這邊也特別說明一下因為我們真的在地方接收到很多的陳情尤其桃園標車族非常猖獗長期干擾民眾夜間的安寧很多老人家或者上班族一被吵醒根本都沒辦法睡對於他們真的是很大的困擾所以我希望"},{"start":930.715,"end":955.494,"text":"交通部還有環境部應該怎麼研議這個取締的問題如何降低違規改裝還有青少年無照駕駛的問題我也希望部長針對這個罰則是不是要加重罰則加強取締不然這個問題真的困擾我相信台灣很多民眾對這個飆車族噪音的問題困擾大家很久了"},{"start":956.305,"end":972.852,"text":"好 謝謝委員的建議這個我們就遵照大院要修法的指示我們本部願意配合辦理那這部分我也希望環境部還有交通部大家為民眾的這個夜間安眠能夠多幫忙好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝圖全紀委員的發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1246,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（13時29分）謝謝主席，請彭部長還有賴次長。"],["主席：請彭部長、賴次長。"],["彭部長啓明：涂委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：部長，我先請問一下，風災過後，如果廠商向環境部回報這些光電板的處理情形為已經全數清理完成，那什麼叫作「清理完成」？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們會由管理中心，例如這次是南區管理中心，隸屬環境部環管署，結合地方環保局一起查驗。對於最後那一家，我們給他的期限是在9月5日完成，我們9月6日已到全部案場巡過一次，的確沒有廢棄物。所以這部分我們有一套程序在進行。"],["涂委員權吉：但那其實應該叫清運完成。"],["彭部長啓明：對，清運完成。"],["涂委員權吉：清理完成應該是指清運、處理完成。10月8日衛環委員會也針對光電板這個案子質詢，當天晚上八點半馬上看到經濟部發新聞稿，指稱廢棄光電板已經全數清理完成。我們當天質詢的時候，部長還講其實還有1萬2,000片暫置在其他地方，可是經濟部馬上在晚上說全數清理完成，我覺得好像在玩文字遊戲。一般民眾會感覺光電板好像已經清運完了，業者也已經將其分解、裂解處理完成，我覺得好像有點誤導民眾。"],["彭部長啓明：我們的清理指的是離開原有案場，回復正常環境品質，所以叫清理。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊！那就是清運嘛！也就是從A點到B點，把它清除、清運走，所以還是要注意一下啦！當天明明講還有1萬2,000片暫置，晚上就發新聞稿說已經全數清理完成，不知道的民眾會覺得「哇！環境部、經濟部動作那麼快，光電板已經全部清理好了！」這點還是要注意一下，我覺得有點算是玩文字遊戲，而且當天晚上發這個訊息，有點誤導民眾，還是要稍微注意一下。","還有，風災後廢棄光電板現在到底還有多少沒有處理？我們看一下，新塭滯洪池業者是永鑫能源，而據我們了解，永鑫能源應該是雲豹的子公司，環境部7月15日巡檢過，後來好像就沒有再稽查。我們看了一下，當時開罰100萬元，可是稽查紀錄是不需要改善。當然，根據我們的查詢結果，錢也沒有繳。9月16日，環境部以書面回復我們，新塭滯洪池暫置1萬片，結果9月19日新聞媒體到現場看，也看到仍有光電板泡在水裡，而且還有很多廢棄物埋在土裡。後來，經濟部在10月7日又以書面回復我們，暫置3萬3,000片。那我就搞不懂，一下子是環境部9月16日說暫置1萬片，經濟部又回復我們暫置3萬3,000片。接著經濟部又在10月16日新聞稿裡講7月24日已經清理完了，民眾不要以訛傳訛，我剛剛也聽到張啓楷委員針對這部分提出質詢。環境部跟經濟部的說法落差真的很大，雖然那時候講過，因為規格、尺寸大小不一，所以計算上有落差，可是一萬多片跟四萬多片的落差實在太多了吧！"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這可能是統計時間不同造成的差別，就我們來說的話，我們9月6日去看是完全沒有廢棄物在案場，有一些完好無缺的擺在那個地方，並沒有廢棄掉。也可能有一種情況，由於現場其實非常地亂，特別是在9月5日之前，所以在他們清理的過程當中可能有一些不小心埋在土裡面，經過雨水沖刷造成的。我這個禮拜會請同仁再去看一次、再檢查一次。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊！部長，你要看一下，環境部9月16日說暫置1萬片，經濟部的訊息10月7日變成3萬3,000片，不但沒有減少，還增加啊！經濟部跟環境部到底是怎麼計算的？"],["賴次長建信：跟委員說明，那是10月7日回復的，至於引用的統計時間，容我回去查一下再向你說明。我們回復的時間點確實會有時間差，我想原因應該在這個地方。"],["涂委員權吉：對啊！可是先前在九月多環境部說1萬片，十月多經濟部的數據變成三萬多片；上一次質詢時，你們說一萬多片，而且兩個單位都說一萬多片，相差幾千片，因為涉及規格大小，計算上可能有落差，後來我們再查，你們的回復就變成三萬多片，所以我們真的很不了解現在到底還有多少光電板沒處理。而且我們問現在暫置在哪裡，環境部說不知道，經濟部也說不知道，不知道你們是怎麼稽查的。"],["彭部長啓明：我們有一定的廢棄物存放規定，不過處理上是由地方環保局處理，我們跟環保局協同作業。你現在問我在哪裡，我當然不清楚，但是我知道存放在一個地方，是某一個工業區的某家工廠。"],["涂委員權吉：那經濟部跟環境部都沒有去稽查嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我們當時在處理廢棄物，他們則是太陽能光電的主管機關，所以我們的處理角度不大一樣。"],["涂委員權吉：你不知道暫置在哪裡，那怎麼稽查？"],["彭部長啓明：我們當然清楚啊！因為我們清楚存放在某一個地點。"],["涂委員權吉：可是你們的回復都說不知道，環境部不知道，經濟部也說不知道啊！"],["彭部長啓明：應該知道啦！"],["涂委員權吉：環境部還說看新聞才知道。"],["賴次長建信：前端清運分為兩個程序，第一是從水面清到旁邊的土地，作為臨時的暫置場。"],["涂委員權吉：那現在到底暫置在哪裡？"],["賴次長建信：現在應該是在回收廠商指定倉庫這個地方。"],["涂委員權吉：所以你們也不知道在哪裡？我覺得很疑惑，既然你都不知道，那怎麼稽查？實際數量到底是誰查的？難怪你們的說法落差那麼大啊！連放在哪裡都不知道。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，有啦！是在一個暫置場裡，我們的同仁知道。我們清楚來源，但不見得會對大眾說放在哪裡。"],["涂委員權吉：我希望了解一下啦！難怪9月16日你們說剩1萬片，10月7日經濟部卻說剩三萬多片；然後，兩個部會都不知道放在哪裡，那怎麼稽查？到底還有沒有？說不定更多，根本完全沒有掌握啊！","你再看看，新庄滯洪池也是，業者是元昱太陽光電。當時我曾詢問，環境部登記的是元昱光電，而經濟部登記的是進金生能源，所以我問這樣登記可以嗎？你們到現在也沒有回復。八、九月去巡查、稽查，喊開罰900萬元，但後來聽說只罰了300萬元，另外600萬元因為改善完成所以免罰。環境部在8月21日說元昱還堆置3萬5,000片在岸邊，9月16日說只剩2,000片，結果又來了，經濟部10月7日又跟我們說暫置1萬7,000片，本來2,000片，經濟部說1萬5,000片。經濟部又馬上在10月16日再發新聞稿，稱7月30日已經清完，民眾不要以訛傳訛，又來了！又叫民眾不要以訛傳訛，結果你們自己一下子說2,000片，一下子說1萬5,000片，又說7月30日已經處理完，叫民眾不要以訛傳訛，但暫置地點一樣不知道。在10月17日，民眾跟媒體去現場看，現場根本凌亂不堪、還有很多碎片，剛剛張啓楷委員是不是也提供了照片，說是他才剛去照的？現場還有浮筒、還有碎片，還有很多廢棄物，那光電板到底處理得怎麼樣？我看包括經濟部跟環境部，大家都搞不清楚。"],["彭部長啓明：不會啦！由於那是一片很大面積的開放場域，清完當時我們去看，岸邊都是爛泥啦！所以的確可能有一些碎片等被放在下面，或是業者又回去了，只是做什麼樣的事情我們不清楚，因為我們是在某個時間點，例如9月6日去處理。我也答應委員，這個禮拜一定請同仁再去巡查一次，是不是有如張啓楷委員說的這樣一個事實，如果有這個事實，我們就會開罰。"],["涂委員權吉：好，你看新塭滯洪池，你們7月15日去巡檢之後，開罰100萬元，後來稽查紀錄也說不需改善，也還沒有繳清罰款，後來9月19日媒體去看，現場光電板還泡在那邊，那我問你，現在新塭滯洪池到底處理乾淨了沒有？"],["彭部長啓明：現場已經處理乾淨了，但是我剛剛跟委員說，有一些可能是雜質的東西散落在那個地方，因為下雨沖刷之後，袒露出來，我這個禮拜會請同仁去觀察。"],["涂委員權吉：那我問一下，罰100萬元，不需要改善，為什麼不需要改善？"],["彭部長啓明：當然要改善啊。"],["涂委員權吉：可是稽查紀錄寫不需改善啊。要罰錢，然後不需改善，這我真的看不懂。"],["彭部長啓明：我們罰的是廢清法。"],["賴次長建信：我們是依照電業的相關規定去處理。"],["涂委員權吉：那「不需改善」是什麼意思？表示已經改善完成，所以不需改善嗎？"],["賴次長建信：不是，這是依照廢清法的規定去裁罰的。"],["彭部長啓明：不過委員，這個已經繳錢了啦。有繳錢。"],["涂委員權吉：好，錢繳了，罰100萬元，為什麼上面註明「不需改善」？然後後來9月19日媒體去看，光電板也泡在水裡啊，然後現在問到底處理好沒有，你們也說要再去現場看。"],["彭部長啓明：光電板泡在水裡這個事情要去確定是好的光電板泡在水裡，就是還在水面上，還是壞掉的在水面上，這要有一個定義出來，目前的確是壞掉的都已經移出水面上了。"],["涂委員權吉：好，希望環境部跟經濟部針對這些暫置的光電板，要有一個明確的數字，兩邊的數字差好幾萬片，說規格、尺寸、大小不一致，落差幾萬片也太誇張了！"],["彭部長啓明：這可能是給你的報告跟新聞混在一起，所以造成數字的混淆，就我看到的數字都是有在修正，例如說，原來最早是15萬片，一直修，最後修到12.1萬片。"],["涂委員權吉：我希望經濟部、環境部去新塭滯洪池和新庄滯洪池現場澈底清查一下到底怎麼回事。媒體10月17日報導，在現場拍了照片，剛剛張啓楷也說他自己去現場拍了照片，然後你看新庄滯洪池，之前罰900萬元，後來說改善了，600萬元免罰，如果這個照片是真的，而且我相信這是媒體去現場拍的，那根本就沒有改善，那600萬元還要不要罰？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，開罰是地方環保局在我們的協助之下開罰，至於有沒有罰，怎麼繳錢，我們會跟環保局保持密切的聯繫，再做最後的確認。至於有沒有清完成，委員，因為這是一個開放的場域，誰都可以去，所以我們會請同仁再去確認一下。"],["涂委員權吉：我希望部長針對這個幫我們澈底瞭解清楚，因為我們覺得光電板牽扯的問題真的太多了，而且我剛剛一直講，上一次也問過，同一個案場，環境部登記的公司跟經濟部登記的公司居然不一樣，這沒有問題嗎？你們到現在也沒回復。然後說因為改善完成，所以600萬元不用罰，結果新聞一報，你看現場浮筒、碎片、廢棄物一大堆，這樣叫改善完成？"],["彭部長啓明：那個名稱不一樣，前面的是電業登記申請的開發商，後面的是運維的廠商，名稱是不一樣的，原因在這裡。","另外一個部分，我剛剛仔細問一下我們的同仁，他10月7日就有去現場看，不只是在水面的部分，還有包括在周邊原來指定的暫存場的部分，大概都已經清除完了。當然剛剛委員所說的早上那些照片，我們還要再去確認，因為我們去檢查的時候確實是沒有的。"],["涂委員權吉：好。我覺得環境部、經濟部溝通很重要，9月16日環境部公布的總共一萬多片，結果經濟部10月7日公布的是四萬八千多片，這落差真的太大了。我們那時候也有講，其實地方廠商也有在講，因為光電板的規格、尺寸、大小不一，造成他們要回收處理非常、非常的麻煩，當然回收的量能絕對會減慢它的速度，所以我們講，這個規格尺寸真的要好好研議一下，規格尺寸一樣，到時候再回收處理，才會好處理，才會迅速。","還有我們今天有針對噪音管制法修法進行討論，我這邊也特別說明一下，因為我們真的在地方接到很多陳情，尤其桃園飆車族非常猖獗，長期干擾民眾夜間的安寧，很多老人家或者上班族一被吵醒，根本都沒辦法睡，對於他們真的是很大的困擾，所以我希望交通部和環境部研議取締的問題，如何降低違規改裝和青少年無照駕駛的問題，我也希望部長針對罰則，研議是不是要加重罰則，加強取締，不然這個問題真的很讓人困擾，我相信臺灣很多民眾對飆車族噪音的問題深感困擾，這個問題困擾大家很久了。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員的建議，這個我們就遵照大院要修法的指示，本部願意配合辦理。"],["涂委員權吉：好，針對這部分，我也希望環境部和交通部為民眾的夜間安寧，能夠多幫忙。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["涂委員權吉：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝涂權吉委員的發言。謝謝部長們的回應。","下一位我們請楊曜委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-5","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","陳菁徽","林月琴","劉建國","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","王育敏","張啓楷","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","楊瓊瓔","王正旭","林淑芬","涂權吉","楊曜","陳瑩","盧縣一","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":129,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部、經濟部、農業部、內政部就「太陽能光電板案場環評機制與保護區廢棄物管理\n之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六\n條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二\n十八條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員張智倫等17人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條\n文修正草案」案、(四)委員王育敏等24人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草\n案」案、( 五) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、\n(六)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員\n牛煦庭等25人擬具「噪音管制法第二條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員羅明才等20人\n擬具「噪音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「噪\n音管制法第二十六條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案【專題報告及法律案採綜合詢答；法律案僅\n詢答】","agenda_id":"1148601_00003"}}}