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{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 523.352, \"end\": 523.492, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 523.492, \"end\": 523.652, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 523.652, \"end\": 524.252, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 524.252, \"end\": 524.793, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"託\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 524.793, \"end\": 525.274, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 525.274, \"end\": 525.674, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"送\", \"start\": 525.674, \"end\": 525.814, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 525.814, \"end\": 526.114, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 526.114, \"end\": 526.295, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"室\", \"start\": 526.295, \"end\": 526.715, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 526.715, \"end\": 526.935, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 526.935, \"end\": 527.716, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 527.716, \"end\": 527.796, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"瞭\", \"start\": 527.796, \"end\": 528.016, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 528.016, \"end\": 528.157, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 528.157, \"end\": 528.257, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 528.257, \"end\": 528.777, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 528.777, \"end\": 529.398, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 529.398, \"end\": 529.558, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"趙\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"昭\", \"start\": 529.558, \"end\": 530.119, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 530.119, \"end\": 530.259, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 530.259, \"end\": 530.279, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,946 --> 00:00:11,958\n謝謝昭偉您今天已經獲得很多感謝不過我還是要再次代表民眾黨黨團向廖偉強昭偉致謝排審這個法案那有請洪部長請洪部長\n\n2\n00:00:19,475 --> 00:00:35,801\n部長早部長我今天第一次聽您說這個外送人權益的保障你要朝法治化的方向走然後我繼續聽我有聽到你說事實上法治化的已經啟動了程序那你說還需要一點點時間這個都是剛剛你說的請問這一點點時間大約是多久多快\n\n3\n00:00:42,556 --> 00:00:56,506\n我跟委員報告也謝謝委員讓我這個時間可以說明其實大概在幾個月前那我跟我們的同仁其實就是在討論就是其實外送員的保障當然有指引是重要的可是\n\n4\n00:00:58,807 --> 00:01:27,206\n我們是不是能夠朝向專法來往前我沒辦法扣除我的時間因為我時間有限就是說你大概給我一個可能的時間你們目標時間我們目前其實進入到最後階段那可能最後因為還要包括預告還要有一些法制的作業的程序我們可能需要兩到三個月但是因為我們立法院已經要排審了那部長請問您知道7月UberEats片面條件外送你的報酬平均每一單減少19塊錢這件事你知道嗎當然知道\n\n5\n00:01:28,527 --> 00:01:36,115\n知道好那部長這個外商人被減薪每當收入減少的時候他會怎麼樣他會發生什麼事情你知道嗎我知道\n\n6\n00:01:36,878 --> 00:02:02,663\n你也知道他會多接單嘛然後每天他的疊單的權益就受到影響然後為了在有限時間接更多的單他就必須搶快然後就會有道路安全的問題安全危險也提高了這個他本身工作的風險這個都是勞動部在媒體上說的喔那你勞動部還說這個UberEats這種做法是不恰當的請問部長對於這種不恰當做法你們做了什麼\n\n7\n00:02:04,042 --> 00:02:29,846\n我們在當時當然很積極的來協調但也是因為像這樣的事件所以我們也認為恐怕就是應該要剛剛您說是發函就要求一些規則不只發函也包括約談我們也做了一些行政協調但是當然最後平台還是採取這個做法對部長因為沒效嘛發函沒效所以我們還是減薪的我們的確也是認為在這個前提下那應該是要更進一步的發函\n\n8\n00:02:30,186 --> 00:02:45,594\n謝謝部長因為什麼沒有效嗎誰怕你嘛因為你這個不是你沒有法治效法律效力嘛所以那你既然剛剛講了我知道說你可以接受專法的必要性只有法律白紙黑字這個保障才是完整的部長會反駁他不是減薪是因為他們設計了一套非常複雜的這個\n\n9\n00:02:49,716 --> 00:03:06,325\n薪資計算方式某些項目是加一點某些項目是少一點那但是平均下來就算整體報酬是減少他們會說我們這個不叫減薪我們這個叫調整方案那當然這是話術了部長請你看一下左邊這張圖是某家外送平台的薪資計算方式有各種項目\n\n10\n00:03:07,205 --> 00:03:18,550\n那每個項目又有必須達成的條件那不同條件又有不同的加成每提名是獎勵其實是在懲罰這些辛苦的外送員就好像長榮航空他設計了一套非常複雜的獎勵制度那可是讓空服員不敢休息不敢請假所以資方們都很聰明這些資方又不良他用正面表示來表達好像他要這個獎勵但事實上如果你沒這麼做是有很多的隱形的處罰\n\n11\n00:03:34,978 --> 00:03:53,831\n那那個像空服員他們就是排二整就是排所謂的報復式排班那那個外送員就是什麼就是接待率變低啦所以跑單又沒有加成所以部長你都了解這個狀況嗎那你看右邊這張圖這是一位外送員在網路上分享他一天的報酬一天上線的時間是14小時又12分鐘獲得報酬是2140元\n\n12\n00:03:57,734 --> 00:04:23,309\n平均時薪大概是152元已經低於基本時薪了那當然有人說他沒有14小時都在跑但是這種說法就像客運司機手上沒有在方向盤就說他沒有在工作一樣可笑請問外送員不需要等餐嗎請問送達目的地不需要等人來拿嗎那沒有油了要不要去加油所以基本上這個都是花時間的所以部長認為這個外送員的接單的基本費需不需要保障\n\n13\n00:04:25,001 --> 00:04:40,221\n報酬上面當然要有基本的保障所以必須讓他們的平均薪資能夠符合基本的時薪吧您同意嗎同意部長同意部長除了薪資保障之外其他的工作權也很重要有很多的外出委員反映他們的莫名其妙被平台停權剛剛幾個委員也報告了\n\n14\n00:04:41,963 --> 00:05:01,382\n明明沒有違規卻被惡意檢舉那平常不查證就直接把他停權申訴也沒用那都得到那種就是罐頭訊息嘛就制式的回應這對他們工作完全沒有保障有一些那個曾經有這個外送員他被用什麼理由停權你知道嗎你消費者有過多的眼神交流啊天啊那這段時間這個就是說\n\n15\n00:05:03,104 --> 00:05:20,121\n反正業者說有管道申訴但是這段期間外送員的生計怎麼辦呢他們這個減少收入也不會有補償部長我要跟你講你的部門勞研所有一個研究報告指出我不知道你看了沒有將近六成的外送員都認為申訴制度是無效的\n\n16\n00:05:20,661 --> 00:05:34,917\n勞研所其中九成認為這只是提供制式答案就是我說的那個罐頭訊息並沒有針對他的問題去解決請問部長你認為需要建立一個真正能夠解決問題的申訴平台來保障外送員嗎你同意嗎\n\n17\n00:05:35,838 --> 00:05:55,886\n需要而且不只是停權甚至其實這裡面有很多中止契約這有很多的中止契約的問題其實也都應該要有效的申訴制度那剛剛兩個基本問題就是接單的接單費基本費的保障還有有效的申訴這個制度是當中的重點那另外這個勞僱關係的認定跟投保保險也很重要這比較複雜我想逐條討論我們再來說\n\n18\n00:05:58,707 --> 00:06:26,827\n那這個請部長做好準備因為這個剛剛也有很多人提這個Foodpanda這個UberEats他們這個新興平台已經存在十幾年了那目前估計至少有15萬以上的這個外送從業人員我們不能再拖了部長我最後有一個問題請教你上禮拜天有一群外籍勞工到勞動部做抗議你知道這件事嗎當然知道他們在抗議什麼他們抗議是這個被中介收了買工費的問題\n\n19\n00:06:28,496 --> 00:06:56,534\n然後仲介費然後要求什麼他們要求什麼要求要把這個希望能夠把這個買工費追回來除了買工費嘛那還有要求職聘吧長久的問題嘛是當然他們一定會提這個職聘的問題嘛部長這些移工辛辛苦苦到台灣來打拼台灣除了有獨佈全球的仲介服務費之外還有這個無良仲介收取這個違法的買工費\n\n20\n00:06:57,952 --> 00:07:00,680\n那醫工不繳買工費會怎麼樣你知道嗎我們目前就不幫你找工作啊\n\n21\n00:07:06,345 --> 00:07:30,045\n那他們一共每個月繳將近兩千元的這個仲介服務費是給心酸的嗎繳心酸的嗎部長我要提醒你說我最喜歡找你以前講話可是每個人本來就要為他講過的話負責任嘛你當立委時也開過記者會批評喔買工費還要勞動部積極查緝違法仲介那現在你是部長囉掌握了權力齁那請問你有積極查緝嗎你有在積極查緝嗎\n\n22\n00:07:32,847 --> 00:07:55,139\n我跟陳委員報告其實我剛剛講到不管是職聘或者政府來做轉換我們這些事情接下來都會更加的努力包括我們其實現在也設了一個延攬中心這個延攬中心就是希望來強化國對國的職聘接下來我們也會針對我們的職聘服務中心還有轉換中心\n\n23\n00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:12,110\n我們會做功能上面的整合我們希望做服務上的整合把這部分的政府的角色能夠更加的強化這是我們非常在意的事情勞團說你們把眼睛閉上了裝作看不見了然後裝作沒這件事你接受這個批評嗎他們說啦\n\n24\n00:08:13,911 --> 00:08:32,342\n我們非常的在意關於職聘上面的工作那我不是嘴巴講講這是我們也編列的資源編列的預算也提了計畫接下來就是在職聘上面希望做得更好請問勞動部目前查到幾件違法的仲介的這個案件請問你有嗎手邊有這個資料嗎有查嗎有去查嗎有查到嗎違法仲介的部分\n\n25\n00:08:37,986 --> 00:08:50,279\n113年到114年9月我們將好了好不好因為我的時間到你有資料對不對那我請會後拜託把這個資料送到辦公室來給我看讓我瞭解一下好謝謝部長謝謝趙偉謝謝陳昭之委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3946\t11958\t謝謝昭偉 您今天已經獲得很多感謝不過我還是要再次代表民眾黨黨團向廖偉強 昭偉致謝 排審這個法案那有請洪部長請洪部長\n19475\t35801\t部長早部長我今天第一次聽您說這個外送人權益的保障你要朝法治化的方向走然後我繼續聽我有聽到你說事實上法治化的已經啟動了程序那你說還需要一點點時間這個都是剛剛你說的請問這一點點時間大約是多久多快\n42556\t56506\t我跟委員報告也謝謝委員讓我這個時間可以說明其實大概在幾個月前那我跟我們的同仁其實就是在討論就是其實外送員的保障當然有指引是重要的可是\n58807\t87206\t我們是不是能夠朝向專法來往前我沒辦法扣除我的時間因為我時間有限就是說你大概給我一個可能的時間你們目標時間我們目前其實進入到最後階段那可能最後因為還要包括預告還要有一些法制的作業的程序我們可能需要兩到三個月但是因為我們立法院已經要排審了那部長請問您知道7月Uber Eats片面條件外送你的報酬平均每一單減少19塊錢這件事你知道嗎當然知道\n88527\t96115\t知道好那部長這個外商人被減薪每當收入減少的時候他會怎麼樣他會發生什麼事情你知道嗎我知道\n96878\t122663\t你也知道他會多接單嘛然後每天他的疊單的權益就受到影響然後為了在有限時間接更多的單他就必須搶快然後就會有道路安全的問題安全危險也提高了這個他本身工作的風險這個都是勞動部在媒體上說的喔那你勞動部還說這個Uber Eats這種做法是不恰當的請問部長對於這種不恰當做法你們做了什麼\n124042\t149846\t我們在當時當然很積極的來協調但也是因為像這樣的事件所以我們也認為恐怕就是應該要 剛剛您說是發函就要求一些規則不只發函也包括約談我們也做了一些行政協調但是當然最後平台還是採取這個做法對部長因為沒效嘛發函沒效所以我們還是減薪的我們的確也是認為在這個前提下那應該是要更進一步的發函\n150186\t165594\t謝謝部長因為什麼沒有效嗎誰怕你嘛因為你這個不是你沒有法治效法律效力嘛所以那你既然剛剛講了我知道說你可以接受專法的必要性只有法律白紙黑字這個保障才是完整的部長會反駁他不是減薪是因為他們設計了一套非常複雜的這個\n169716\t186325\t薪資計算方式某些項目是加一點某些項目是少一點那但是平均下來就算整體報酬是減少他們會說我們這個不叫減薪我們這個叫調整方案那當然這是話術了部長請你看一下左邊這張圖是某家外送平台的薪資計算方式有各種項目\n187205\t198550\t那每個項目又有必須達成的條件那不同條件又有不同的加成每提名是獎勵其實是在懲罰這些辛苦的外送員就好像長榮航空他設計了一套非常複雜的獎勵制度那可是讓空服員不敢休息不敢請假所以資方們都很聰明這些資方又不良他用正面表示來表達好像他要這個獎勵但事實上如果你沒這麼做是有很多的隱形的處罰\n214978\t233831\t那那個像空服員他們就是排二整就是排所謂的報復式排班那那個外送員就是什麼就是接待率變低啦所以跑單又沒有加成所以部長你都了解這個狀況嗎那你看右邊這張圖這是一位外送員在網路上分享他一天的報酬一天上線的時間是14小時又12分鐘獲得報酬是2140元\n237734\t263309\t平均時薪大概是152元已經低於基本時薪了那當然有人說他沒有14小時都在跑但是這種說法就像客運司機手上沒有在方向盤就說他沒有在工作一樣可笑請問外送員不需要等餐嗎請問送達目的地不需要等人來拿嗎那沒有油了要不要去加油所以基本上這個都是花時間的所以部長認為這個外送員的接單的基本費需不需要保障\n265001\t280221\t報酬上面當然要有基本的保障所以必須讓他們的平均薪資能夠符合基本的時薪吧您同意嗎同意部長同意部長除了薪資保障之外其他的工作權也很重要有很多的外出委員反映他們的莫名其妙被平台停權剛剛幾個委員也報告了\n281963\t301382\t明明沒有違規卻被惡意檢舉那平常不查證就直接把他停權申訴也沒用那都得到那種就是罐頭訊息嘛就制式的回應這對他們工作完全沒有保障有一些那個曾經有這個外送員他被用什麼理由停權你知道嗎你消費者有過多的眼神交流啊天啊那這段時間這個就是說\n303104\t320121\t反正業者說有管道申訴但是這段期間外送員的生計怎麼辦呢他們這個減少收入也不會有補償部長我要跟你講你的部門勞研所有一個研究報告指出我不知道你看了沒有將近六成的外送員都認為申訴制度是無效的\n320661\t334917\t勞研所其中九成認為這只是提供制式答案就是我說的那個罐頭訊息並沒有針對他的問題去解決請問部長你認為需要建立一個真正能夠解決問題的申訴平台來保障外送員嗎你同意嗎\n335838\t355886\t需要而且不只是停權甚至其實這裡面有很多中止契約這有很多的中止契約的問題其實也都應該要有效的申訴制度那剛剛兩個基本問題就是接單的接單費基本費的保障還有有效的申訴這個制度是當中的重點那另外這個勞僱關係的認定跟投保保險也很重要這比較複雜我想逐條討論我們再來說\n358707\t386827\t那這個請部長做好準備因為這個剛剛也有很多人提這個Foodpanda這個UberEats他們這個新興平台已經存在十幾年了那目前估計至少有15萬以上的這個外送從業人員我們不能再拖了部長我最後有一個問題請教你上禮拜天有一群外籍勞工到勞動部做抗議你知道這件事嗎當然知道他們在抗議什麼他們抗議是這個被中介收了買工費的問題\n388496\t416534\t然後 仲介費 然後要求什麼他們要求什麼要求要把這個 希望能夠把這個買工費追回來除了買工費嘛 那還有要求職聘吧長久的問題嘛 是 當然他們一定會提這個職聘的問題嘛 部長這些移工辛辛苦苦到台灣來打拼台灣除了有獨佈全球的仲介服務費之外還有這個無良仲介收取這個違法的買工費\n417952\t420680\t那醫工不繳買工費會怎麼樣你知道嗎我們目前 就不幫你找工作啊\n426345\t450045\t那他們一共每個月繳將近兩千元的這個仲介服務費是給心酸的嗎繳心酸的嗎部長我要提醒你說我最喜歡找你以前講話可是每個人本來就要為他講過的話負責任嘛你當立委時也開過記者會批評喔買工費還要勞動部積極查緝違法仲介那現在你是部長囉掌握了權力齁那請問你有積極查緝嗎你有在積極查緝嗎\n452847\t475139\t我跟陳委員報告其實我剛剛講到不管是職聘或者政府來做轉換我們這些事情接下來都會更加的努力包括我們其實現在也設了一個延攬中心這個延攬中心就是希望來強化國對國的職聘接下來我們也會針對我們的職聘服務中心還有轉換中心\n477280\t492110\t我們會做功能上面的整合我們希望做服務上的整合把這部分的政府的角色能夠更加的強化這是我們非常在意的事情勞團說你們把眼睛閉上了裝作看不見了然後裝作沒這件事你接受這個批評嗎他們說啦\n493911\t512342\t我們非常的在意關於職聘上面的工作那我不是嘴巴講講這是我們也編列的資源編列的預算也提了計畫接下來就是在職聘上面希望做得更好請問勞動部目前查到幾件違法的仲介的這個案件請問你有嗎手邊有這個資料嗎有查嗎有去查嗎有查到嗎違法仲介的部分\n517986\t530279\t113年到114年9月我們將好了好不好因為我的時間到 你有資料對不對那我請會後拜託把這個資料送到辦公室來給我看讓我瞭解一下好 謝謝部長 謝謝趙偉謝謝陳昭之委員\n","txt":"謝謝昭偉 您今天已經獲得很多感謝不過我還是要再次代表民眾黨黨團向廖偉強 昭偉致謝 排審這個法案那有請洪部長請洪部長\n部長早部長我今天第一次聽您說這個外送人權益的保障你要朝法治化的方向走然後我繼續聽我有聽到你說事實上法治化的已經啟動了程序那你說還需要一點點時間這個都是剛剛你說的請問這一點點時間大約是多久多快\n我跟委員報告也謝謝委員讓我這個時間可以說明其實大概在幾個月前那我跟我們的同仁其實就是在討論就是其實外送員的保障當然有指引是重要的可是\n我們是不是能夠朝向專法來往前我沒辦法扣除我的時間因為我時間有限就是說你大概給我一個可能的時間你們目標時間我們目前其實進入到最後階段那可能最後因為還要包括預告還要有一些法制的作業的程序我們可能需要兩到三個月但是因為我們立法院已經要排審了那部長請問您知道7月Uber Eats片面條件外送你的報酬平均每一單減少19塊錢這件事你知道嗎當然知道\n知道好那部長這個外商人被減薪每當收入減少的時候他會怎麼樣他會發生什麼事情你知道嗎我知道\n你也知道他會多接單嘛然後每天他的疊單的權益就受到影響然後為了在有限時間接更多的單他就必須搶快然後就會有道路安全的問題安全危險也提高了這個他本身工作的風險這個都是勞動部在媒體上說的喔那你勞動部還說這個Uber Eats這種做法是不恰當的請問部長對於這種不恰當做法你們做了什麼\n我們在當時當然很積極的來協調但也是因為像這樣的事件所以我們也認為恐怕就是應該要 剛剛您說是發函就要求一些規則不只發函也包括約談我們也做了一些行政協調但是當然最後平台還是採取這個做法對部長因為沒效嘛發函沒效所以我們還是減薪的我們的確也是認為在這個前提下那應該是要更進一步的發函\n謝謝部長因為什麼沒有效嗎誰怕你嘛因為你這個不是你沒有法治效法律效力嘛所以那你既然剛剛講了我知道說你可以接受專法的必要性只有法律白紙黑字這個保障才是完整的部長會反駁他不是減薪是因為他們設計了一套非常複雜的這個\n薪資計算方式某些項目是加一點某些項目是少一點那但是平均下來就算整體報酬是減少他們會說我們這個不叫減薪我們這個叫調整方案那當然這是話術了部長請你看一下左邊這張圖是某家外送平台的薪資計算方式有各種項目\n那每個項目又有必須達成的條件那不同條件又有不同的加成每提名是獎勵其實是在懲罰這些辛苦的外送員就好像長榮航空他設計了一套非常複雜的獎勵制度那可是讓空服員不敢休息不敢請假所以資方們都很聰明這些資方又不良他用正面表示來表達好像他要這個獎勵但事實上如果你沒這麼做是有很多的隱形的處罰\n那那個像空服員他們就是排二整就是排所謂的報復式排班那那個外送員就是什麼就是接待率變低啦所以跑單又沒有加成所以部長你都了解這個狀況嗎那你看右邊這張圖這是一位外送員在網路上分享他一天的報酬一天上線的時間是14小時又12分鐘獲得報酬是2140元\n平均時薪大概是152元已經低於基本時薪了那當然有人說他沒有14小時都在跑但是這種說法就像客運司機手上沒有在方向盤就說他沒有在工作一樣可笑請問外送員不需要等餐嗎請問送達目的地不需要等人來拿嗎那沒有油了要不要去加油所以基本上這個都是花時間的所以部長認為這個外送員的接單的基本費需不需要保障\n報酬上面當然要有基本的保障所以必須讓他們的平均薪資能夠符合基本的時薪吧您同意嗎同意部長同意部長除了薪資保障之外其他的工作權也很重要有很多的外出委員反映他們的莫名其妙被平台停權剛剛幾個委員也報告了\n明明沒有違規卻被惡意檢舉那平常不查證就直接把他停權申訴也沒用那都得到那種就是罐頭訊息嘛就制式的回應這對他們工作完全沒有保障有一些那個曾經有這個外送員他被用什麼理由停權你知道嗎你消費者有過多的眼神交流啊天啊那這段時間這個就是說\n反正業者說有管道申訴但是這段期間外送員的生計怎麼辦呢他們這個減少收入也不會有補償部長我要跟你講你的部門勞研所有一個研究報告指出我不知道你看了沒有將近六成的外送員都認為申訴制度是無效的\n勞研所其中九成認為這只是提供制式答案就是我說的那個罐頭訊息並沒有針對他的問題去解決請問部長你認為需要建立一個真正能夠解決問題的申訴平台來保障外送員嗎你同意嗎\n需要而且不只是停權甚至其實這裡面有很多中止契約這有很多的中止契約的問題其實也都應該要有效的申訴制度那剛剛兩個基本問題就是接單的接單費基本費的保障還有有效的申訴這個制度是當中的重點那另外這個勞僱關係的認定跟投保保險也很重要這比較複雜我想逐條討論我們再來說\n那這個請部長做好準備因為這個剛剛也有很多人提這個Foodpanda這個UberEats他們這個新興平台已經存在十幾年了那目前估計至少有15萬以上的這個外送從業人員我們不能再拖了部長我最後有一個問題請教你上禮拜天有一群外籍勞工到勞動部做抗議你知道這件事嗎當然知道他們在抗議什麼他們抗議是這個被中介收了買工費的問題\n然後 仲介費 然後要求什麼他們要求什麼要求要把這個 希望能夠把這個買工費追回來除了買工費嘛 那還有要求職聘吧長久的問題嘛 是 當然他們一定會提這個職聘的問題嘛 部長這些移工辛辛苦苦到台灣來打拼台灣除了有獨佈全球的仲介服務費之外還有這個無良仲介收取這個違法的買工費\n那醫工不繳買工費會怎麼樣你知道嗎我們目前 就不幫你找工作啊\n那他們一共每個月繳將近兩千元的這個仲介服務費是給心酸的嗎繳心酸的嗎部長我要提醒你說我最喜歡找你以前講話可是每個人本來就要為他講過的話負責任嘛你當立委時也開過記者會批評喔買工費還要勞動部積極查緝違法仲介那現在你是部長囉掌握了權力齁那請問你有積極查緝嗎你有在積極查緝嗎\n我跟陳委員報告其實我剛剛講到不管是職聘或者政府來做轉換我們這些事情接下來都會更加的努力包括我們其實現在也設了一個延攬中心這個延攬中心就是希望來強化國對國的職聘接下來我們也會針對我們的職聘服務中心還有轉換中心\n我們會做功能上面的整合我們希望做服務上的整合把這部分的政府的角色能夠更加的強化這是我們非常在意的事情勞團說你們把眼睛閉上了裝作看不見了然後裝作沒這件事你接受這個批評嗎他們說啦\n我們非常的在意關於職聘上面的工作那我不是嘴巴講講這是我們也編列的資源編列的預算也提了計畫接下來就是在職聘上面希望做得更好請問勞動部目前查到幾件違法的仲介的這個案件請問你有嗎手邊有這個資料嗎有查嗎有去查嗎有查到嗎違法仲介的部分\n113年到114年9月我們將好了好不好因為我的時間到 你有資料對不對那我請會後拜託把這個資料送到辦公室來給我看讓我瞭解一下好 謝謝部長 謝謝趙偉謝謝陳昭之委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.946 --> 00:11.958\n謝謝昭偉您今天已經獲得很多感謝不過我還是要再次代表民眾黨黨團向廖偉強昭偉致謝排審這個法案那有請洪部長請洪部長\n\n00:19.475 --> 00:35.801\n部長早部長我今天第一次聽您說這個外送人權益的保障你要朝法治化的方向走然後我繼續聽我有聽到你說事實上法治化的已經啟動了程序那你說還需要一點點時間這個都是剛剛你說的請問這一點點時間大約是多久多快\n\n00:42.556 --> 00:56.506\n我跟委員報告也謝謝委員讓我這個時間可以說明其實大概在幾個月前那我跟我們的同仁其實就是在討論就是其實外送員的保障當然有指引是重要的可是\n\n00:58.807 --> 01:27.206\n我們是不是能夠朝向專法來往前我沒辦法扣除我的時間因為我時間有限就是說你大概給我一個可能的時間你們目標時間我們目前其實進入到最後階段那可能最後因為還要包括預告還要有一些法制的作業的程序我們可能需要兩到三個月但是因為我們立法院已經要排審了那部長請問您知道7月UberEats片面條件外送你的報酬平均每一單減少19塊錢這件事你知道嗎當然知道\n\n01:28.527 --> 01:36.115\n知道好那部長這個外商人被減薪每當收入減少的時候他會怎麼樣他會發生什麼事情你知道嗎我知道\n\n01:36.878 --> 02:02.663\n你也知道他會多接單嘛然後每天他的疊單的權益就受到影響然後為了在有限時間接更多的單他就必須搶快然後就會有道路安全的問題安全危險也提高了這個他本身工作的風險這個都是勞動部在媒體上說的喔那你勞動部還說這個UberEats這種做法是不恰當的請問部長對於這種不恰當做法你們做了什麼\n\n02:04.042 --> 02:29.846\n我們在當時當然很積極的來協調但也是因為像這樣的事件所以我們也認為恐怕就是應該要剛剛您說是發函就要求一些規則不只發函也包括約談我們也做了一些行政協調但是當然最後平台還是採取這個做法對部長因為沒效嘛發函沒效所以我們還是減薪的我們的確也是認為在這個前提下那應該是要更進一步的發函\n\n02:30.186 --> 02:45.594\n謝謝部長因為什麼沒有效嗎誰怕你嘛因為你這個不是你沒有法治效法律效力嘛所以那你既然剛剛講了我知道說你可以接受專法的必要性只有法律白紙黑字這個保障才是完整的部長會反駁他不是減薪是因為他們設計了一套非常複雜的這個\n\n02:49.716 --> 03:06.325\n薪資計算方式某些項目是加一點某些項目是少一點那但是平均下來就算整體報酬是減少他們會說我們這個不叫減薪我們這個叫調整方案那當然這是話術了部長請你看一下左邊這張圖是某家外送平台的薪資計算方式有各種項目\n\n03:07.205 --> 03:18.550\n那每個項目又有必須達成的條件那不同條件又有不同的加成每提名是獎勵其實是在懲罰這些辛苦的外送員就好像長榮航空他設計了一套非常複雜的獎勵制度那可是讓空服員不敢休息不敢請假所以資方們都很聰明這些資方又不良他用正面表示來表達好像他要這個獎勵但事實上如果你沒這麼做是有很多的隱形的處罰\n\n03:34.978 --> 03:53.831\n那那個像空服員他們就是排二整就是排所謂的報復式排班那那個外送員就是什麼就是接待率變低啦所以跑單又沒有加成所以部長你都了解這個狀況嗎那你看右邊這張圖這是一位外送員在網路上分享他一天的報酬一天上線的時間是14小時又12分鐘獲得報酬是2140元\n\n03:57.734 --> 04:23.309\n平均時薪大概是152元已經低於基本時薪了那當然有人說他沒有14小時都在跑但是這種說法就像客運司機手上沒有在方向盤就說他沒有在工作一樣可笑請問外送員不需要等餐嗎請問送達目的地不需要等人來拿嗎那沒有油了要不要去加油所以基本上這個都是花時間的所以部長認為這個外送員的接單的基本費需不需要保障\n\n04:25.001 --> 04:40.221\n報酬上面當然要有基本的保障所以必須讓他們的平均薪資能夠符合基本的時薪吧您同意嗎同意部長同意部長除了薪資保障之外其他的工作權也很重要有很多的外出委員反映他們的莫名其妙被平台停權剛剛幾個委員也報告了\n\n04:41.963 --> 05:01.382\n明明沒有違規卻被惡意檢舉那平常不查證就直接把他停權申訴也沒用那都得到那種就是罐頭訊息嘛就制式的回應這對他們工作完全沒有保障有一些那個曾經有這個外送員他被用什麼理由停權你知道嗎你消費者有過多的眼神交流啊天啊那這段時間這個就是說\n\n05:03.104 --> 05:20.121\n反正業者說有管道申訴但是這段期間外送員的生計怎麼辦呢他們這個減少收入也不會有補償部長我要跟你講你的部門勞研所有一個研究報告指出我不知道你看了沒有將近六成的外送員都認為申訴制度是無效的\n\n05:20.661 --> 05:34.917\n勞研所其中九成認為這只是提供制式答案就是我說的那個罐頭訊息並沒有針對他的問題去解決請問部長你認為需要建立一個真正能夠解決問題的申訴平台來保障外送員嗎你同意嗎\n\n05:35.838 --> 05:55.886\n需要而且不只是停權甚至其實這裡面有很多中止契約這有很多的中止契約的問題其實也都應該要有效的申訴制度那剛剛兩個基本問題就是接單的接單費基本費的保障還有有效的申訴這個制度是當中的重點那另外這個勞僱關係的認定跟投保保險也很重要這比較複雜我想逐條討論我們再來說\n\n05:58.707 --> 06:26.827\n那這個請部長做好準備因為這個剛剛也有很多人提這個Foodpanda這個UberEats他們這個新興平台已經存在十幾年了那目前估計至少有15萬以上的這個外送從業人員我們不能再拖了部長我最後有一個問題請教你上禮拜天有一群外籍勞工到勞動部做抗議你知道這件事嗎當然知道他們在抗議什麼他們抗議是這個被中介收了買工費的問題\n\n06:28.496 --> 06:56.534\n然後仲介費然後要求什麼他們要求什麼要求要把這個希望能夠把這個買工費追回來除了買工費嘛那還有要求職聘吧長久的問題嘛是當然他們一定會提這個職聘的問題嘛部長這些移工辛辛苦苦到台灣來打拼台灣除了有獨佈全球的仲介服務費之外還有這個無良仲介收取這個違法的買工費\n\n06:57.952 --> 07:00.680\n那醫工不繳買工費會怎麼樣你知道嗎我們目前就不幫你找工作啊\n\n07:06.345 --> 07:30.045\n那他們一共每個月繳將近兩千元的這個仲介服務費是給心酸的嗎繳心酸的嗎部長我要提醒你說我最喜歡找你以前講話可是每個人本來就要為他講過的話負責任嘛你當立委時也開過記者會批評喔買工費還要勞動部積極查緝違法仲介那現在你是部長囉掌握了權力齁那請問你有積極查緝嗎你有在積極查緝嗎\n\n07:32.847 --> 07:55.139\n我跟陳委員報告其實我剛剛講到不管是職聘或者政府來做轉換我們這些事情接下來都會更加的努力包括我們其實現在也設了一個延攬中心這個延攬中心就是希望來強化國對國的職聘接下來我們也會針對我們的職聘服務中心還有轉換中心\n\n07:57.280 --> 08:12.110\n我們會做功能上面的整合我們希望做服務上的整合把這部分的政府的角色能夠更加的強化這是我們非常在意的事情勞團說你們把眼睛閉上了裝作看不見了然後裝作沒這件事你接受這個批評嗎他們說啦\n\n08:13.911 --> 08:32.342\n我們非常的在意關於職聘上面的工作那我不是嘴巴講講這是我們也編列的資源編列的預算也提了計畫接下來就是在職聘上面希望做得更好請問勞動部目前查到幾件違法的仲介的這個案件請問你有嗎手邊有這個資料嗎有查嗎有去查嗎有查到嗎違法仲介的部分\n\n08:37.986 --> 08:50.279\n113年到114年9月我們將好了好不好因為我的時間到你有資料對不對那我請會後拜託把這個資料送到辦公室來給我看讓我瞭解一下好謝謝部長謝謝趙偉謝謝陳昭之委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.946,"end":11.958,"text":"謝謝昭偉 您今天已經獲得很多感謝不過我還是要再次代表民眾黨黨團向廖偉強 昭偉致謝 排審這個法案那有請洪部長請洪部長"},{"start":19.475,"end":35.801,"text":"部長早部長我今天第一次聽您說這個外送人權益的保障你要朝法治化的方向走然後我繼續聽我有聽到你說事實上法治化的已經啟動了程序那你說還需要一點點時間這個都是剛剛你說的請問這一點點時間大約是多久多快"},{"start":42.556,"end":56.506,"text":"我跟委員報告也謝謝委員讓我這個時間可以說明其實大概在幾個月前那我跟我們的同仁其實就是在討論就是其實外送員的保障當然有指引是重要的可是"},{"start":58.807,"end":87.206,"text":"我們是不是能夠朝向專法來往前我沒辦法扣除我的時間因為我時間有限就是說你大概給我一個可能的時間你們目標時間我們目前其實進入到最後階段那可能最後因為還要包括預告還要有一些法制的作業的程序我們可能需要兩到三個月但是因為我們立法院已經要排審了那部長請問您知道7月Uber Eats片面條件外送你的報酬平均每一單減少19塊錢這件事你知道嗎當然知道"},{"start":88.527,"end":96.115,"text":"知道好那部長這個外商人被減薪每當收入減少的時候他會怎麼樣他會發生什麼事情你知道嗎我知道"},{"start":96.878,"end":122.663,"text":"你也知道他會多接單嘛然後每天他的疊單的權益就受到影響然後為了在有限時間接更多的單他就必須搶快然後就會有道路安全的問題安全危險也提高了這個他本身工作的風險這個都是勞動部在媒體上說的喔那你勞動部還說這個Uber Eats這種做法是不恰當的請問部長對於這種不恰當做法你們做了什麼"},{"start":124.042,"end":149.846,"text":"我們在當時當然很積極的來協調但也是因為像這樣的事件所以我們也認為恐怕就是應該要 剛剛您說是發函就要求一些規則不只發函也包括約談我們也做了一些行政協調但是當然最後平台還是採取這個做法對部長因為沒效嘛發函沒效所以我們還是減薪的我們的確也是認為在這個前提下那應該是要更進一步的發函"},{"start":150.186,"end":165.594,"text":"謝謝部長因為什麼沒有效嗎誰怕你嘛因為你這個不是你沒有法治效法律效力嘛所以那你既然剛剛講了我知道說你可以接受專法的必要性只有法律白紙黑字這個保障才是完整的部長會反駁他不是減薪是因為他們設計了一套非常複雜的這個"},{"start":169.716,"end":186.325,"text":"薪資計算方式某些項目是加一點某些項目是少一點那但是平均下來就算整體報酬是減少他們會說我們這個不叫減薪我們這個叫調整方案那當然這是話術了部長請你看一下左邊這張圖是某家外送平台的薪資計算方式有各種項目"},{"start":187.205,"end":198.55,"text":"那每個項目又有必須達成的條件那不同條件又有不同的加成每提名是獎勵其實是在懲罰這些辛苦的外送員就好像長榮航空他設計了一套非常複雜的獎勵制度那可是讓空服員不敢休息不敢請假所以資方們都很聰明這些資方又不良他用正面表示來表達好像他要這個獎勵但事實上如果你沒這麼做是有很多的隱形的處罰"},{"start":214.978,"end":233.831,"text":"那那個像空服員他們就是排二整就是排所謂的報復式排班那那個外送員就是什麼就是接待率變低啦所以跑單又沒有加成所以部長你都了解這個狀況嗎那你看右邊這張圖這是一位外送員在網路上分享他一天的報酬一天上線的時間是14小時又12分鐘獲得報酬是2140元"},{"start":237.734,"end":263.309,"text":"平均時薪大概是152元已經低於基本時薪了那當然有人說他沒有14小時都在跑但是這種說法就像客運司機手上沒有在方向盤就說他沒有在工作一樣可笑請問外送員不需要等餐嗎請問送達目的地不需要等人來拿嗎那沒有油了要不要去加油所以基本上這個都是花時間的所以部長認為這個外送員的接單的基本費需不需要保障"},{"start":265.001,"end":280.221,"text":"報酬上面當然要有基本的保障所以必須讓他們的平均薪資能夠符合基本的時薪吧您同意嗎同意部長同意部長除了薪資保障之外其他的工作權也很重要有很多的外出委員反映他們的莫名其妙被平台停權剛剛幾個委員也報告了"},{"start":281.963,"end":301.382,"text":"明明沒有違規卻被惡意檢舉那平常不查證就直接把他停權申訴也沒用那都得到那種就是罐頭訊息嘛就制式的回應這對他們工作完全沒有保障有一些那個曾經有這個外送員他被用什麼理由停權你知道嗎你消費者有過多的眼神交流啊天啊那這段時間這個就是說"},{"start":303.104,"end":320.121,"text":"反正業者說有管道申訴但是這段期間外送員的生計怎麼辦呢他們這個減少收入也不會有補償部長我要跟你講你的部門勞研所有一個研究報告指出我不知道你看了沒有將近六成的外送員都認為申訴制度是無效的"},{"start":320.661,"end":334.917,"text":"勞研所其中九成認為這只是提供制式答案就是我說的那個罐頭訊息並沒有針對他的問題去解決請問部長你認為需要建立一個真正能夠解決問題的申訴平台來保障外送員嗎你同意嗎"},{"start":335.838,"end":355.886,"text":"需要而且不只是停權甚至其實這裡面有很多中止契約這有很多的中止契約的問題其實也都應該要有效的申訴制度那剛剛兩個基本問題就是接單的接單費基本費的保障還有有效的申訴這個制度是當中的重點那另外這個勞僱關係的認定跟投保保險也很重要這比較複雜我想逐條討論我們再來說"},{"start":358.707,"end":386.827,"text":"那這個請部長做好準備因為這個剛剛也有很多人提這個Foodpanda這個UberEats他們這個新興平台已經存在十幾年了那目前估計至少有15萬以上的這個外送從業人員我們不能再拖了部長我最後有一個問題請教你上禮拜天有一群外籍勞工到勞動部做抗議你知道這件事嗎當然知道他們在抗議什麼他們抗議是這個被中介收了買工費的問題"},{"start":388.496,"end":416.534,"text":"然後 仲介費 然後要求什麼他們要求什麼要求要把這個 希望能夠把這個買工費追回來除了買工費嘛 那還有要求職聘吧長久的問題嘛 是 當然他們一定會提這個職聘的問題嘛 部長這些移工辛辛苦苦到台灣來打拼台灣除了有獨佈全球的仲介服務費之外還有這個無良仲介收取這個違法的買工費"},{"start":417.952,"end":420.68,"text":"那醫工不繳買工費會怎麼樣你知道嗎我們目前 就不幫你找工作啊"},{"start":426.345,"end":450.045,"text":"那他們一共每個月繳將近兩千元的這個仲介服務費是給心酸的嗎繳心酸的嗎部長我要提醒你說我最喜歡找你以前講話可是每個人本來就要為他講過的話負責任嘛你當立委時也開過記者會批評喔買工費還要勞動部積極查緝違法仲介那現在你是部長囉掌握了權力齁那請問你有積極查緝嗎你有在積極查緝嗎"},{"start":452.847,"end":475.139,"text":"我跟陳委員報告其實我剛剛講到不管是職聘或者政府來做轉換我們這些事情接下來都會更加的努力包括我們其實現在也設了一個延攬中心這個延攬中心就是希望來強化國對國的職聘接下來我們也會針對我們的職聘服務中心還有轉換中心"},{"start":477.28,"end":492.11,"text":"我們會做功能上面的整合我們希望做服務上的整合把這部分的政府的角色能夠更加的強化這是我們非常在意的事情勞團說你們把眼睛閉上了裝作看不見了然後裝作沒這件事你接受這個批評嗎他們說啦"},{"start":493.911,"end":512.342,"text":"我們非常的在意關於職聘上面的工作那我不是嘴巴講講這是我們也編列的資源編列的預算也提了計畫接下來就是在職聘上面希望做得更好請問勞動部目前查到幾件違法的仲介的這個案件請問你有嗎手邊有這個資料嗎有查嗎有去查嗎有查到嗎違法仲介的部分"},{"start":517.986,"end":530.279,"text":"113年到114年9月我們將好了好不好因為我的時間到 你有資料對不對那我請會後拜託把這個資料送到辦公室來給我看讓我瞭解一下好 謝謝部長 謝謝趙偉謝謝陳昭之委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":298,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時37分）謝謝召委，您今天已經獲得很多感謝，不過我還是要再次代表民眾黨黨團向廖偉翔召委致謝，排審這個法案。有請洪部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長早。部長，我今天第一次聽您說外送員權益保障要朝法制化的方向走，然後我繼續聽，有聽到你說事實上法制化已經啟動了程序，還需要一點點時間，這些都是剛剛你說的，請問這一點點時間大約是多久、多快？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員報告，也謝謝委員讓我有這個時間可以說明。大概在幾個月前，我跟同仁就在討論外送員的保障，當然有指引是重要的，可是我們是不是能夠朝向專法來往前……"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，不好意思，因為我時間有限，你大概給我一個可能的時間、你們的目標時間，好嗎？謝謝。"],["洪部長申翰：我們目前其實進入到最後階段，可能最後……"],["陳委員昭姿：最後階段，因為已經排審了。"],["洪部長申翰：因為還要包括預告，還要有一些法制作業程序，我們可能需要兩到三個月。"],["陳委員昭姿：好吧，但是立法院已經要排審了。"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，請問您知道7月Uber Eats片面調降外送員的報酬，平均每一單減少19塊錢，這件事你知道嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我當然知道。"],["陳委員昭姿：知道，好。部長，外送員被減薪，每單收入減少的時候，他會怎麼樣？他會發生什麼事情，你知道嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我知道。"],["陳委員昭姿：你也知道對不對？他會多接單來彌補。"],["洪部長申翰：他疊單的權益就受到影響。"],["陳委員昭姿：每天的工時更長，為了在有限時間接更多的單，他必須搶快，就會有道路安全的問題，也提高了他本身工作的風險，這個都是勞動部在媒體上說的。"],["洪部長申翰：是！"],["陳委員昭姿：勞動部還說Uber 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Eats業者會反駁他不是減薪，是因為他們設計了一套非常複雜的薪資計算方式，某些項目是加一點、某些項目是少一點，但平均下來就算整體報酬是減少，他們會說：「我們這個不叫減薪，這個叫調整方案。」當然這是話術啦！部長，請你看一下左邊這張圖，這是某家外送平台的薪資計算方式，有各種項目，每個項目又有必須達成的條件，不同條件又有不同的加成，美其名是獎勵，其實是在懲罰這些辛苦的外送員。就好像長榮航空設計了一套非常複雜的獎勵制度，可是讓空服員不敢休息、不敢請假，所以資方們都很聰明啦！這些資方又不良，採用正面表列來表達好像他要獎勵，但事實上如果你沒這麼做，是有很多隱形的處罰，像空服員就是惡整，就是所謂的報復式排班；那外送員是什麼？就是接單率變低，跑單又沒有加成，所以部長都了解這個狀況嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["陳委員昭姿：了解嘛！好。你看右邊這張圖，這是一位外送員在網路上分享他一天的報酬，一天上線的時間是14小時又12分鐘，獲得報酬是2,140元，平均時薪大概是152元，已經低於基本時薪，當然有人說他沒有14小時都在跑，但是這種說法就像客運司機手上沒有放在方向盤，就說他沒有在工作一樣可笑。請問外送員不需要等餐嗎？請問送達目的地不需要等人來拿嗎？沒有油了，要不要去加油？基本上這個都要花時間，所以部長認為外送員接單的基本費需不需要保障？"],["洪部長申翰：報酬上面當然要有基本的保障。"],["陳委員昭姿：所以必須讓他們的平均薪資能夠符合基本時薪，您同意嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：同意。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長同意，好。部長，除了薪資保障之外，其他的工作權也很重要，有很多的外送員反映他們莫名其妙被平台停權，剛剛幾個委員也報告了，明明沒有違規卻被惡意檢舉，但平台不查證，就直接把他停權，申訴也沒用，就得到罐頭訊息、制式的回應，這對他們的工作權完全沒有保障，曾經有外送員被什麼理由停權，你知道嗎？「與消費者有過多的眼神交流」，天啊！業者說有管道申訴，但是這段時間外送員的生計怎麼辦呢？他們減少收入也不會有補償。部長，我要跟你講，你的部門──勞研所有一份研究報告指出，我不知道你看了沒有，它指出將近6成的外送員都認為申訴制度是無效的，其中9成認為這只是提供制式答案，就是我說的罐頭訊息，並沒有針對他的問題去解決。請問部長，你認為需要建立一個真正能夠解決問題的申訴平台來保障外送員嗎？你同意嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：需要，而且不只是停權，其實這裡面有很多終止契約……"],["陳委員昭姿：這是你們勞研所調查的。"],["洪部長申翰：這有很多終止契約的問題，其實也都應該要有有效的申訴制度。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝部長。剛才兩個基本問題，就是接單費、基本費的保障及有效申訴制度是當中的重點，另外，勞雇關係的認定跟投保保險也很重要，這比較複雜，我想逐條討論我們再來說，請部長做好準備。剛剛也有很多人提到foodpanda、Uber Eats這種新興平台已經存在十幾年了，目前估計至少有15萬以上的外送從業人員，我們不能再拖了！","部長，我最後有一個問題請教你，上禮拜天有一群外籍勞工到勞動部抗議，你知道這件事嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：當然知道。"],["陳委員昭姿：他們在抗議什麼？"],["洪部長申翰：他們抗議被仲介收了買工費的問題。"],["陳委員昭姿：然後要求什麼？他們要求什麼？"],["洪部長申翰：要求希望能夠把買工費追回來。"],["陳委員昭姿：除了買工費，還有要求直聘，這是長久的問題嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：是，當然！"],["陳委員昭姿：他們一定會提直聘的問題。"],["洪部長申翰：有。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，這些移工辛辛苦苦到臺灣來打拼，臺灣除了有獨步全球的仲介服務費之外，還有無良仲介收取違法的買工費，移工不繳買工費會怎麼樣，你知道嗎？仲介就不幫你找工作啊！移工每個月繳將近2,000元的仲介服務費，這是給辛酸的嗎？繳辛酸的嗎？部長，我要提醒你，你說我最喜歡找你以前講過的話，可是每個人本來就要為他講過的話負責任嘛！你當立委時也開過記者會批評買工費，還要勞動部積極查緝違法仲介；現在你是部長，掌握了權力，請問你有積極查緝嗎？你有在積極查緝嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我跟陳委員報告，其實我剛剛講到，不管是直聘或者政府來做轉換，這些事情接下來都會……"],["陳委員昭姿：有在做、有在努力。"],["洪部長申翰：都會更加的努力，包括我們現在也設了一個延攬中心，這個延攬中心就是希望來強化國對國的直聘，接下來我們也會針對直聘服務中心還有轉換中心做功能上面的整合……"],["陳委員昭姿：繼續往這個方向走，希望不要等太久。"],["洪部長申翰：我們希望做服務上的整合，讓政府的角色能夠更加的強化，這是我們非常在意的事情。"],["陳委員昭姿：這不是我說的，勞團說你們把眼睛閉上了，裝作看不見，然後裝作沒這件事。你接受這個批評嗎？這是他們說的，他們那天抗議說的。"],["洪部長申翰：我們非常的在意關於直聘上面的工作，我不是嘴巴講講，我們也編列了資源，編列了預算，也提了計畫，接下來就是在直聘上面希望能做得更好。"],["陳委員昭姿：請問勞動部目前查到幾件違法仲介的案件？請問你手邊有這個資料嗎？有去查嗎？有查到嗎？違法仲介的部分。"],["黃署長齡玉：113年到114年9月我們接獲76件……"],["陳委員昭姿：這樣好了，因為我的時間到了，你有資料，會後請把這個資料送到辦公室來給我看，讓我了解一下，謝謝部長。"],["黃署長齡玉：是。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳昭姿委員。","請楊瓊瓔委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-6","speakers":["廖偉翔","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","王育敏","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","陳菁徽","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","黃國昌","林國成","李坤城","張啓楷","許宇甄","黃捷","鍾佳濱","楊曜","林楚茵","吳思瑤","劉建國","盧縣一","張智倫","林沛祥","涂權吉"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；二、台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送\n平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人\n員權益保障法草案」案；五、委員王鴻薇等20 人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草\n案」案；六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148801_00003"}}}