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\"start\": 441.407, \"end\": 441.528, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"輝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 441.528, \"end\": 441.629, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 441.629, \"end\": 441.649, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,282 --> 00:00:31,688\n謝謝主席楊瓊發言人邀請部長勞動部請部長楊委員好是部長今天討論關於外送平台管理及從業人員的權益保障法案那本席有提案所以本席要在這邊首先來請教你是否支持外送專法的立法\n\n2\n00:00:33,066 --> 00:00:59,250\n我剛才已經表達過支持那如果支持你認為這一個這一步法到底是要保障誰是保障平台還是保障外送員主要如果這步法最重要第一個是外送員再來是消費者也包括合作的商家當然我們也希望還有這裡面會把這個平台他可能也需要一些創新的空間可以考慮進去\n\n3\n00:01:00,273 --> 00:01:14,632\n但總的來說這個平台外送平台的工作其實他的利害相關方很多所以他其實也需要一些跨部會的分工一起來協助所以這個法也很重要他其實需要跨部會的分工在這個法裡面去做作用這很重要對\n\n4\n00:01:15,626 --> 00:01:34,797\n好那本席也聽到部長您的論點是跟本席的方向是一樣的也就是你的地方也就是著重在外送員的一個保障跟權益這個很重要那所以本席要跟你再討論喔過去政府都不斷的告訴大家要立法來保障\n\n5\n00:01:35,677 --> 00:01:51,248\n現在險性的部分大概是15萬位的外送員的權益但是我們看到在野黨提出的這個版本到目前為止政府還沒有提出版本只有用嘴炮講\n\n6\n00:01:52,929 --> 00:02:19,924\n所以本席希望剛剛聽到你說你的方向你第一個是支持第二個是以外送員的一個權益為第一方為最重要的所以本席要再請教此時沒有提出甚至在你前任的部長何部長他表達了他終於是第一個表達說但是他是以個人的立場以個人的立場來支持專法那所以本席看不到\n\n7\n00:02:20,524 --> 00:02:36,994\n你們什麼時候要提出所以本期要請教因為我們外送的產業是有別於傳統產業有別於網路有別於購物這些的牢固關係的形態是一個新興的產業\n\n8\n00:02:38,215 --> 00:02:57,405\n但是現在法規有很多的模糊模糊地帶導致他們的權利需要立專法來保障那你認為這個專法的保障是有哪些大方向還有你現在版本到底什麼時候會提出請做說明\n\n9\n00:02:57,745 --> 00:03:18,798\n好跟委員說明我想我們並不是只是委員說的嘴砲其實我們這幾個月其實已經在著手研議專法的工作不要再跟我嘴砲了因為十幾年一直告訴我們到現在還不提出跟委員說明我們希望內容基本上剛才委員問的方向裡面包括幾個事情第一個報酬要有保障\n\n10\n00:03:19,758 --> 00:03:47,334\n第二個停權或者是契約終止要有明確的有效的申訴的制度包括救濟的制度包括裡面保險的事項不管是這個商業保險或者是社會保險的部分那也包括裡面因為這是涉及到多方的權益包括消費者包括合作商家所以你的契約要有規範請問你預計什麼時候行政院版會出來我們現在在最後的階段我們可能還需要兩到三個月\n\n11\n00:03:47,954 --> 00:04:14,085\n兩到三個月現在是十月份十月中了所以換句話說你預計在十二月的時候會提出是不是如此十二月或一月我們會盡量趕十二月份的時候會提出因為現在在最後的法制作業程序上好我們就暫估你會在十二月份的提出接下來本席跟你討論平台計算以及演算法的一個派單本席認為應該要透明化因為比如說\n\n12\n00:04:17,126 --> 00:04:35,291\n計費運價訂定的方式都應該透明對不對那所以政府一直支持里程的計費但是也有很多外送人員認為沒有辦法去解決所有的問題因為在計費外這個業者還可以空擔\n\n13\n00:04:36,411 --> 00:05:05,894\n要怎麼樣讓派單能夠透明化才能夠根源的解決一致性的不公平的一個樣態請教你們在你們的要預計12月底提出的這個內容裡頭有沒有包括這項我們當然會針對相關的權益比方說如果外送員拒單或者是外送員他下線我們認為這不能有不利的對待因為現在大家現在擔心的派單的這個機制的透明化就擔心說\n\n14\n00:05:06,860 --> 00:05:35,001\n外送員會不會因為拒單或者是因為下線就被不利的對待然後在派單上面就會有差別的對待或者是不利的對待那我想我們在我們的研議裡面也認為這邊不應該有不利的對待好這個方向你這麼說表示會納入我們也希望趕快看到你們的文字呈現因為外送員他也面對到工作不穩定缺乏職災保障的這些問題這都是政府目前必須要積極因為我們已經等了十幾年\n\n15\n00:05:35,982 --> 00:05:43,626\n已經等了十幾年所以我們要看到外送平台他現在幾乎是承攬的關係在法規上規避的應有的保障所以我們必須要立專法有68%的外送員他是沒有勞保沒有職災保也缺乏了整個完整性的第三責任險\n\n16\n00:05:55,413 --> 00:06:11,397\n所以在整個完整的保險也就是勞僱關係這相關的議題當中包括外送員以及外送平台業者他不是只有僱傭的這個關係應該他要適用在我們勞工保險條例裡頭以及勞工職債保險條例跟保障法\n\n17\n00:06:15,558 --> 00:06:29,584\n能夠讓他們有一個完整的保險這才是我們要做同時在外送人員在送的當中如果萬一有事件發生的時候僱主應該要有通報的義務等規範你讚不讚同\n\n18\n00:06:30,438 --> 00:06:50,793\n跟委員說明當然因為大家現在對包括保險的權益也是不管是商保或者是社會保險尤其是植栽保險尤其是栽保的部分這是現在外送員最關心的部分好所以呢我們的方向討論到目前大概方向有一致的方向我也希望能夠進出提出行政院版的這個版本\n\n19\n00:06:53,054 --> 00:07:17,275\n那同時我們到時候在討論的時候也希望本期所提出的都是傾聽了我們外送人員的心聲我們希望能夠真正讓這個新興產業讓這些從業人員能夠安心我們認為在這個議題上面是一個很好潮也可以一起合作來幫助外送員把權益做得更好的機會好我相信所有的外送員以及平台大家都看到我們的訊息腳步積極謝謝\n\n20\n00:07:20,884 --> 00:07:21,649\n謝謝楊純英委員發言請陳金輝委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6282\t31688\t謝謝主席 楊瓊發言人邀請部長勞動部請部長楊委員好是 部長今天討論關於外送平台管理及從業人員的權益保障法案那本席有提案所以本席要在這邊首先來請教你是否支持外送專法的立法\n33066\t59250\t我剛才已經表達過支持那如果支持你認為這一個這一步法到底是要保障誰是保障平台還是保障外送員主要如果這步法最重要第一個是外送員再來是消費者也包括合作的商家當然我們也希望還有這裡面會把這個平台他可能也需要一些創新的空間可以考慮進去\n60273\t74632\t但總的來說這個平台外送平台的工作其實他的利害相關方很多所以他其實也需要一些跨部會的分工一起來協助所以這個法也很重要他其實需要跨部會的分工在這個法裡面去做作用這很重要對\n75626\t94797\t好那本席也聽到部長您的論點是跟本席的方向是一樣的也就是你的地方也就是著重在外送員的一個保障跟權益這個很重要那所以本席要跟你再討論喔過去政府都不斷的告訴大家要立法來保障\n95677\t111248\t現在險性的部分大概是15萬位的外送員的權益但是我們看到在野黨提出的這個版本到目前為止政府還沒有提出版本只有用嘴炮講\n112929\t139924\t所以本席希望剛剛聽到你說你的方向你第一個是支持第二個是以外送員的一個權益為第一方為最重要的所以本席要再請教此時沒有提出甚至在你前任的部長何部長他表達了他終於是第一個表達說但是他是以個人的立場以個人的立場來支持專法那所以本席看不到\n140524\t156994\t你們什麼時候要提出所以本期要請教因為我們外送的產業是有別於傳統產業有別於網路 有別於購物這些的牢固關係的形態是一個新興的產業\n158215\t177405\t但是現在法規有很多的模糊模糊地帶導致他們的權利需要立專法來保障那你認為這個專法的保障是有哪些大方向還有你現在版本到底什麼時候會提出 請做說明\n177745\t198798\t好 跟委員說明我想我們並不是只是委員說的嘴砲其實我們這幾個月其實已經在著手研議專法的工作不要再跟我嘴砲了因為十幾年一直告訴我們到現在還不提出跟委員說明我們希望內容基本上剛才委員問的方向裡面包括幾個事情第一個報酬要有保障\n199758\t227334\t第二個 停權或者是契約終止要有明確的有效的申訴的制度包括救濟的制度包括裡面保險的事項不管是這個商業保險或者是社會保險的部分那也包括裡面因為這是涉及到多方的權益包括消費者包括合作商家所以你的契約要有規範請問你預計什麼時候行政院版會出來我們現在在最後的階段我們可能還需要兩到三個月\n227954\t254085\t兩到三個月現在是十月份十月中了所以換句話說你預計在十二月的時候會提出是不是如此十二月或一月我們會盡量趕十二月份的時候會提出因為現在在最後的法制作業程序上好我們就暫估你會在十二月份的提出接下來本席跟你討論平台計算以及演算法的一個派單本席認為應該要透明化因為比如說\n257126\t275291\t計費 運價訂定的方式都應該透明 對不對那所以政府一直支持里程的計費但是也有很多外送人員認為沒有辦法去解決所有的問題因為在計費外 這個業者還可以空擔\n276411\t305894\t要怎麼樣讓派單能夠透明化才能夠根源的解決一致性的不公平的一個樣態請教你們在你們的要預計12月底提出的這個內容裡頭有沒有包括這項我們當然會針對相關的權益比方說如果外送員拒單或者是外送員他下線我們認為這不能有不利的對待因為現在大家現在擔心的派單的這個機制的透明化就擔心說\n306860\t335001\t外送員會不會因為拒單或者是因為下線就被不利的對待然後在派單上面就會有差別的對待或者是不利的對待那我想我們在我們的研議裡面也認為這邊不應該有不利的對待好 這個方向你這麼說表示會納入我們也希望趕快看到你們的文字呈現因為外送員他也面對到工作不穩定缺乏職災保障的這些問題這都是政府目前必須要積極因為我們已經等了十幾年\n335982\t343626\t已經等了十幾年所以我們要看到外送平台他現在幾乎是承攬的關係在法規上規避的應有的保障所以我們必須要立專法有68%的外送員他是沒有勞保沒有職災保也缺乏了整個完整性的第三責任險\n355413\t371397\t所以在整個完整的保險也就是勞僱關係這相關的議題當中包括外送員以及外送平台業者他不是只有僱傭的這個關係應該他要適用在我們勞工保險條例裡頭以及勞工職債保險條例跟保障法\n375558\t389584\t能夠讓他們有一個完整的保險這才是我們要做同時在外送人員在送的當中如果萬一有事件發生的時候僱主應該要有通報的義務等規範你讚不讚同\n390438\t410793\t跟委員說明當然因為大家現在對包括保險的權益也是不管是商保或者是社會保險尤其是植栽保險尤其是栽保的部分這是現在外送員最關心的部分好所以呢我們的方向討論到目前大概方向有一致的方向我也希望能夠進出提出行政院版的這個版本\n413054\t437275\t那同時我們到時候在討論的時候也希望本期所提出的都是傾聽了我們外送人員的心聲我們希望能夠真正讓這個新興產業讓這些從業人員能夠安心我們認為在這個議題上面是一個很好潮也可以一起合作來幫助外送員把權益做得更好的機會好 我相信所有的外送員以及平台大家都看到我們的訊息腳步積極 謝謝\n440884\t441649\t謝謝楊純英委員發言請陳金輝委員發言\n","txt":"謝謝主席 楊瓊發言人邀請部長勞動部請部長楊委員好是 部長今天討論關於外送平台管理及從業人員的權益保障法案那本席有提案所以本席要在這邊首先來請教你是否支持外送專法的立法\n我剛才已經表達過支持那如果支持你認為這一個這一步法到底是要保障誰是保障平台還是保障外送員主要如果這步法最重要第一個是外送員再來是消費者也包括合作的商家當然我們也希望還有這裡面會把這個平台他可能也需要一些創新的空間可以考慮進去\n但總的來說這個平台外送平台的工作其實他的利害相關方很多所以他其實也需要一些跨部會的分工一起來協助所以這個法也很重要他其實需要跨部會的分工在這個法裡面去做作用這很重要對\n好那本席也聽到部長您的論點是跟本席的方向是一樣的也就是你的地方也就是著重在外送員的一個保障跟權益這個很重要那所以本席要跟你再討論喔過去政府都不斷的告訴大家要立法來保障\n現在險性的部分大概是15萬位的外送員的權益但是我們看到在野黨提出的這個版本到目前為止政府還沒有提出版本只有用嘴炮講\n所以本席希望剛剛聽到你說你的方向你第一個是支持第二個是以外送員的一個權益為第一方為最重要的所以本席要再請教此時沒有提出甚至在你前任的部長何部長他表達了他終於是第一個表達說但是他是以個人的立場以個人的立場來支持專法那所以本席看不到\n你們什麼時候要提出所以本期要請教因為我們外送的產業是有別於傳統產業有別於網路 有別於購物這些的牢固關係的形態是一個新興的產業\n但是現在法規有很多的模糊模糊地帶導致他們的權利需要立專法來保障那你認為這個專法的保障是有哪些大方向還有你現在版本到底什麼時候會提出 請做說明\n好 跟委員說明我想我們並不是只是委員說的嘴砲其實我們這幾個月其實已經在著手研議專法的工作不要再跟我嘴砲了因為十幾年一直告訴我們到現在還不提出跟委員說明我們希望內容基本上剛才委員問的方向裡面包括幾個事情第一個報酬要有保障\n第二個 停權或者是契約終止要有明確的有效的申訴的制度包括救濟的制度包括裡面保險的事項不管是這個商業保險或者是社會保險的部分那也包括裡面因為這是涉及到多方的權益包括消費者包括合作商家所以你的契約要有規範請問你預計什麼時候行政院版會出來我們現在在最後的階段我們可能還需要兩到三個月\n兩到三個月現在是十月份十月中了所以換句話說你預計在十二月的時候會提出是不是如此十二月或一月我們會盡量趕十二月份的時候會提出因為現在在最後的法制作業程序上好我們就暫估你會在十二月份的提出接下來本席跟你討論平台計算以及演算法的一個派單本席認為應該要透明化因為比如說\n計費 運價訂定的方式都應該透明 對不對那所以政府一直支持里程的計費但是也有很多外送人員認為沒有辦法去解決所有的問題因為在計費外 這個業者還可以空擔\n要怎麼樣讓派單能夠透明化才能夠根源的解決一致性的不公平的一個樣態請教你們在你們的要預計12月底提出的這個內容裡頭有沒有包括這項我們當然會針對相關的權益比方說如果外送員拒單或者是外送員他下線我們認為這不能有不利的對待因為現在大家現在擔心的派單的這個機制的透明化就擔心說\n外送員會不會因為拒單或者是因為下線就被不利的對待然後在派單上面就會有差別的對待或者是不利的對待那我想我們在我們的研議裡面也認為這邊不應該有不利的對待好 這個方向你這麼說表示會納入我們也希望趕快看到你們的文字呈現因為外送員他也面對到工作不穩定缺乏職災保障的這些問題這都是政府目前必須要積極因為我們已經等了十幾年\n已經等了十幾年所以我們要看到外送平台他現在幾乎是承攬的關係在法規上規避的應有的保障所以我們必須要立專法有68%的外送員他是沒有勞保沒有職災保也缺乏了整個完整性的第三責任險\n所以在整個完整的保險也就是勞僱關係這相關的議題當中包括外送員以及外送平台業者他不是只有僱傭的這個關係應該他要適用在我們勞工保險條例裡頭以及勞工職債保險條例跟保障法\n能夠讓他們有一個完整的保險這才是我們要做同時在外送人員在送的當中如果萬一有事件發生的時候僱主應該要有通報的義務等規範你讚不讚同\n跟委員說明當然因為大家現在對包括保險的權益也是不管是商保或者是社會保險尤其是植栽保險尤其是栽保的部分這是現在外送員最關心的部分好所以呢我們的方向討論到目前大概方向有一致的方向我也希望能夠進出提出行政院版的這個版本\n那同時我們到時候在討論的時候也希望本期所提出的都是傾聽了我們外送人員的心聲我們希望能夠真正讓這個新興產業讓這些從業人員能夠安心我們認為在這個議題上面是一個很好潮也可以一起合作來幫助外送員把權益做得更好的機會好 我相信所有的外送員以及平台大家都看到我們的訊息腳步積極 謝謝\n謝謝楊純英委員發言請陳金輝委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.282 --> 00:31.688\n謝謝主席楊瓊發言人邀請部長勞動部請部長楊委員好是部長今天討論關於外送平台管理及從業人員的權益保障法案那本席有提案所以本席要在這邊首先來請教你是否支持外送專法的立法\n\n00:33.066 --> 00:59.250\n我剛才已經表達過支持那如果支持你認為這一個這一步法到底是要保障誰是保障平台還是保障外送員主要如果這步法最重要第一個是外送員再來是消費者也包括合作的商家當然我們也希望還有這裡面會把這個平台他可能也需要一些創新的空間可以考慮進去\n\n01:00.273 --> 01:14.632\n但總的來說這個平台外送平台的工作其實他的利害相關方很多所以他其實也需要一些跨部會的分工一起來協助所以這個法也很重要他其實需要跨部會的分工在這個法裡面去做作用這很重要對\n\n01:15.626 --> 01:34.797\n好那本席也聽到部長您的論點是跟本席的方向是一樣的也就是你的地方也就是著重在外送員的一個保障跟權益這個很重要那所以本席要跟你再討論喔過去政府都不斷的告訴大家要立法來保障\n\n01:35.677 --> 01:51.248\n現在險性的部分大概是15萬位的外送員的權益但是我們看到在野黨提出的這個版本到目前為止政府還沒有提出版本只有用嘴炮講\n\n01:52.929 --> 02:19.924\n所以本席希望剛剛聽到你說你的方向你第一個是支持第二個是以外送員的一個權益為第一方為最重要的所以本席要再請教此時沒有提出甚至在你前任的部長何部長他表達了他終於是第一個表達說但是他是以個人的立場以個人的立場來支持專法那所以本席看不到\n\n02:20.524 --> 02:36.994\n你們什麼時候要提出所以本期要請教因為我們外送的產業是有別於傳統產業有別於網路有別於購物這些的牢固關係的形態是一個新興的產業\n\n02:38.215 --> 02:57.405\n但是現在法規有很多的模糊模糊地帶導致他們的權利需要立專法來保障那你認為這個專法的保障是有哪些大方向還有你現在版本到底什麼時候會提出請做說明\n\n02:57.745 --> 03:18.798\n好跟委員說明我想我們並不是只是委員說的嘴砲其實我們這幾個月其實已經在著手研議專法的工作不要再跟我嘴砲了因為十幾年一直告訴我們到現在還不提出跟委員說明我們希望內容基本上剛才委員問的方向裡面包括幾個事情第一個報酬要有保障\n\n03:19.758 --> 03:47.334\n第二個停權或者是契約終止要有明確的有效的申訴的制度包括救濟的制度包括裡面保險的事項不管是這個商業保險或者是社會保險的部分那也包括裡面因為這是涉及到多方的權益包括消費者包括合作商家所以你的契約要有規範請問你預計什麼時候行政院版會出來我們現在在最後的階段我們可能還需要兩到三個月\n\n03:47.954 --> 04:14.085\n兩到三個月現在是十月份十月中了所以換句話說你預計在十二月的時候會提出是不是如此十二月或一月我們會盡量趕十二月份的時候會提出因為現在在最後的法制作業程序上好我們就暫估你會在十二月份的提出接下來本席跟你討論平台計算以及演算法的一個派單本席認為應該要透明化因為比如說\n\n04:17.126 --> 04:35.291\n計費運價訂定的方式都應該透明對不對那所以政府一直支持里程的計費但是也有很多外送人員認為沒有辦法去解決所有的問題因為在計費外這個業者還可以空擔\n\n04:36.411 --> 05:05.894\n要怎麼樣讓派單能夠透明化才能夠根源的解決一致性的不公平的一個樣態請教你們在你們的要預計12月底提出的這個內容裡頭有沒有包括這項我們當然會針對相關的權益比方說如果外送員拒單或者是外送員他下線我們認為這不能有不利的對待因為現在大家現在擔心的派單的這個機制的透明化就擔心說\n\n05:06.860 --> 05:35.001\n外送員會不會因為拒單或者是因為下線就被不利的對待然後在派單上面就會有差別的對待或者是不利的對待那我想我們在我們的研議裡面也認為這邊不應該有不利的對待好這個方向你這麼說表示會納入我們也希望趕快看到你們的文字呈現因為外送員他也面對到工作不穩定缺乏職災保障的這些問題這都是政府目前必須要積極因為我們已經等了十幾年\n\n05:35.982 --> 05:43.626\n已經等了十幾年所以我們要看到外送平台他現在幾乎是承攬的關係在法規上規避的應有的保障所以我們必須要立專法有68%的外送員他是沒有勞保沒有職災保也缺乏了整個完整性的第三責任險\n\n05:55.413 --> 06:11.397\n所以在整個完整的保險也就是勞僱關係這相關的議題當中包括外送員以及外送平台業者他不是只有僱傭的這個關係應該他要適用在我們勞工保險條例裡頭以及勞工職債保險條例跟保障法\n\n06:15.558 --> 06:29.584\n能夠讓他們有一個完整的保險這才是我們要做同時在外送人員在送的當中如果萬一有事件發生的時候僱主應該要有通報的義務等規範你讚不讚同\n\n06:30.438 --> 06:50.793\n跟委員說明當然因為大家現在對包括保險的權益也是不管是商保或者是社會保險尤其是植栽保險尤其是栽保的部分這是現在外送員最關心的部分好所以呢我們的方向討論到目前大概方向有一致的方向我也希望能夠進出提出行政院版的這個版本\n\n06:53.054 --> 07:17.275\n那同時我們到時候在討論的時候也希望本期所提出的都是傾聽了我們外送人員的心聲我們希望能夠真正讓這個新興產業讓這些從業人員能夠安心我們認為在這個議題上面是一個很好潮也可以一起合作來幫助外送員把權益做得更好的機會好我相信所有的外送員以及平台大家都看到我們的訊息腳步積極謝謝\n\n07:20.884 --> 07:21.649\n謝謝楊純英委員發言請陳金輝委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.282,"end":31.688,"text":"謝謝主席 楊瓊發言人邀請部長勞動部請部長楊委員好是 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跟委員說明我想我們並不是只是委員說的嘴砲其實我們這幾個月其實已經在著手研議專法的工作不要再跟我嘴砲了因為十幾年一直告訴我們到現在還不提出跟委員說明我們希望內容基本上剛才委員問的方向裡面包括幾個事情第一個報酬要有保障"},{"start":199.758,"end":227.334,"text":"第二個 停權或者是契約終止要有明確的有效的申訴的制度包括救濟的制度包括裡面保險的事項不管是這個商業保險或者是社會保險的部分那也包括裡面因為這是涉及到多方的權益包括消費者包括合作商家所以你的契約要有規範請問你預計什麼時候行政院版會出來我們現在在最後的階段我們可能還需要兩到三個月"},{"start":227.954,"end":254.085,"text":"兩到三個月現在是十月份十月中了所以換句話說你預計在十二月的時候會提出是不是如此十二月或一月我們會盡量趕十二月份的時候會提出因為現在在最後的法制作業程序上好我們就暫估你會在十二月份的提出接下來本席跟你討論平台計算以及演算法的一個派單本席認為應該要透明化因為比如說"},{"start":257.126,"end":275.291,"text":"計費 運價訂定的方式都應該透明 對不對那所以政府一直支持里程的計費但是也有很多外送人員認為沒有辦法去解決所有的問題因為在計費外 這個業者還可以空擔"},{"start":276.411,"end":305.894,"text":"要怎麼樣讓派單能夠透明化才能夠根源的解決一致性的不公平的一個樣態請教你們在你們的要預計12月底提出的這個內容裡頭有沒有包括這項我們當然會針對相關的權益比方說如果外送員拒單或者是外送員他下線我們認為這不能有不利的對待因為現在大家現在擔心的派單的這個機制的透明化就擔心說"},{"start":306.86,"end":335.001,"text":"外送員會不會因為拒單或者是因為下線就被不利的對待然後在派單上面就會有差別的對待或者是不利的對待那我想我們在我們的研議裡面也認為這邊不應該有不利的對待好 這個方向你這麼說表示會納入我們也希望趕快看到你們的文字呈現因為外送員他也面對到工作不穩定缺乏職災保障的這些問題這都是政府目前必須要積極因為我們已經等了十幾年"},{"start":335.982,"end":343.626,"text":"已經等了十幾年所以我們要看到外送平台他現在幾乎是承攬的關係在法規上規避的應有的保障所以我們必須要立專法有68%的外送員他是沒有勞保沒有職災保也缺乏了整個完整性的第三責任險"},{"start":355.413,"end":371.397,"text":"所以在整個完整的保險也就是勞僱關係這相關的議題當中包括外送員以及外送平台業者他不是只有僱傭的這個關係應該他要適用在我們勞工保險條例裡頭以及勞工職債保險條例跟保障法"},{"start":375.558,"end":389.584,"text":"能夠讓他們有一個完整的保險這才是我們要做同時在外送人員在送的當中如果萬一有事件發生的時候僱主應該要有通報的義務等規範你讚不讚同"},{"start":390.438,"end":410.793,"text":"跟委員說明當然因為大家現在對包括保險的權益也是不管是商保或者是社會保險尤其是植栽保險尤其是栽保的部分這是現在外送員最關心的部分好所以呢我們的方向討論到目前大概方向有一致的方向我也希望能夠進出提出行政院版的這個版本"},{"start":413.054,"end":437.275,"text":"那同時我們到時候在討論的時候也希望本期所提出的都是傾聽了我們外送人員的心聲我們希望能夠真正讓這個新興產業讓這些從業人員能夠安心我們認為在這個議題上面是一個很好潮也可以一起合作來幫助外送員把權益做得更好的機會好 我相信所有的外送員以及平台大家都看到我們的訊息腳步積極 謝謝"},{"start":440.884,"end":441.649,"text":"謝謝楊純英委員發言請陳金輝委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":359,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（9時46分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，邀請勞動部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["洪部長申翰：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，今天討論關於外送平台管理暨從業人員的權益保障法案，本席也有提案，所以本席在這邊首先要請教，你是否支持外送專法的立法？"],["洪部長申翰：我剛才已經表達過了，支持。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：如果支持，你認為這一部法到底是要保障誰？是保障平台，還是保障外送員？"],["洪部長申翰：這部法最主要保障的第一個是外送員，再來是消費者，也包括合作的商家，當然，我們也希望把平台它可能需要一些創新的空間考慮進去，但總的來說，這個外送平台工作的利害相關方很多，所以它其實也需要一些跨部會的分工一起來協助，所以這個法有一點很重要，在這個法裡面其實需要跨部會的分工去做作用，這也很重要。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席也聽到部長您的論點跟本席的方向是一樣的，也就是第一是著重在外送員的保障跟權益，這個很重要。所以本席要再跟你討論，過去政府不斷地告訴大家要立法保障現在顯性的15萬位外送員的權益，我們看到在野黨提出了版本，但是到目前為止政府還沒有提出版本，只有用嘴炮講，所以本席剛剛聽到你說你的方向，第一個你是支持的，第二個是以外送員的權益為最重要的。","本席要再請教，草案遲遲沒有提出，甚至在你前任的部長何部長他表達了，終於他是第一個表達的，但是他是以個人的立場來表達支持專法，本席看不到你們什麼時候要提出，所以本席要請教，因為外送產業有別於傳統產業，有別於網路、有別於購物，其勞雇關係的型態是一個新興的產業，但是現在法規有很多的模糊地帶，導致他們的權益需要立專法來保障，那你認為這個專法的保障有哪些大方向？還有你現在的版本到底什麼時候會提出？請做說明。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們並不是只是委員說的嘴炮，我們這幾個月其實已經在著手研議專法的工作……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不要再跟我嘴炮，因為十幾年一直告訴我們，到現在還不提出，請問你的進度……"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們希望內容……剛剛委員問的方向裡面包括幾個事情，第一個，報酬要有保障；第二個，停權或者是契約終止要有明確的、有效的申訴制度，包括救濟的制度，包括保險的事項，不管是商業保險或者是社會保險的部分。另外，因為這涉及到多方的權益，包括消費者，包括合作商家，所以契約要有規範……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問你預計什麼時候行政院版會出來？"],["洪部長申翰：我們現在在最後的階段，可能還需要兩到三個月。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：兩到三個月，現在是10月中了，換句話說，你預計在12月的時候會提出，是不是？"],["洪部長申翰：12月或1月，我們會儘量趕。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：12月份的時候會提出，是不是？"],["洪部長申翰：對，因為現在在最後的法制作業程序。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我們就暫估你會在12月份提出。接下來，本席跟你討論平台計算以及演算法的派單，本席認為應該要透明化，比如說，里程計費、運價訂定的方式都應該透明，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：政府一直支持以里程計費，但是也有很多外送人員認為沒有辦法解決所有的問題，因為在計費外，業者還可以控單，要讓派單能夠透明化，才能夠根源的解決不公平的樣態，請教在你們預計12月底提出的內容裡頭有沒有包括這一項？"],["洪部長申翰：我們當然會針對相關的權益，比方說，如果外送員拒單或者是外送員下線，我們認為這不能有不利的對待，因為大家現在擔心派單機制的透明化，就是擔心外送員會不會因為拒單或者是因為下線，然後在派單上面就會有差別的對待或者是會有不利的對待，我想在我們的研議裡面也認為這邊不應該有不利的對待。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你這麼說表示這個方向會納入，我們也希望趕快看到你們的文字呈現。因為外送員也面對工作不穩定、缺乏職災保障的這些問題，這都是政府目前必須要積極處理的，因為我們已經等了十幾年。我們看到外送平台現在幾乎是承攬的關係，在法規上規避應有的保障，所以我們必須要立專法，有68%的外送員沒有勞保、沒有職災保，也缺乏完整性的第三責任險，所以在勞雇關係整個保險相關的議題當中，包括外送員以及外送平台業者不是只有僱傭關係，應該要適用勞工保險條例以及勞工職災保險及保護法，能夠讓他們有一個完整的保險，這才是我們要做的。同時，外送人員在送的當中，如果有事件發生的時候，雇主應該要有通報的義務等規範，你贊不贊同？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，因為大家現在對於保險的權益，不管是商保或者是社會保險，尤其是職災保險、災保的部分，這是現在外送員最關心的部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，所以我們討論到目前，大概有一致的方向，我也希望能夠儘速提出行政院的版本，我們到時候一起討論，本席所提出的內容都是傾聽了我們外送人員的心聲，我們希望讓這個新興產業的從業人員真正能夠安心。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們認為在這個議題上面，是一個很好朝野可以一起合作，來幫助外送員把權益做得更好的機會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，我相信所有的外送員以及平台，大家都有看到我們的訊息，腳步積極，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員發言。","請陳菁徽委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-6","speakers":["廖偉翔","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","王育敏","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","陳菁徽","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","黃國昌","林國成","李坤城","張啓楷","許宇甄","黃捷","鍾佳濱","楊曜","林楚茵","吳思瑤","劉建國","盧縣一","張智倫","林沛祥","涂權吉"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；二、台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送\n平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人\n員權益保障法草案」案；五、委員王鴻薇等20 人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草\n案」案；六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148801_00003"}}}