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\"好\", \"start\": 769.025, \"end\": 769.225, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 769.225, \"end\": 769.325, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 769.325, \"end\": 769.445, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 769.445, \"end\": 769.726, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 769.726, \"end\": 770.466, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 770.466, \"end\": 770.627, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 770.627, \"end\": 770.647, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:11,226 --> 00:00:12,967\n有請吳主委請吳主委劉委員好好主委好那今天跟你來討論的是在國科衛的在預算這部分跟業務報告的內容瓜瓜是跨域統的部分我們看到的是在國科衛跟中研院他們在預算的這部分編列當中都有關於叫淨零碳排\n\n2\n00:00:39,326 --> 00:00:51,665\n國會會這邊有六項中間院也有五項兩個共同的部分就是在聚碳燃清跟升值碳匯這部分我們就想要請問一下\n\n3\n00:00:53,047 --> 00:01:20,527\n主委喔那您對於跟中研院在六大領域當中有兩項重疊上面的話在淨齡探去探男性跟生殖探會這部分的它在經費跟研究時程上跟成果上面有什麼樣的差異性可以做一下簡單的說明我們原則上來講國科會編這個科技預算是包含幫中央研究院還有行政院的各部會一起編列這個科技預算\n\n4\n00:01:21,452 --> 00:01:42,025\n當然中央研究院還有一部分預算是他直接從總統府那邊編的但是我們過程當中我們都會一起看一起討論您這個是比較粗略型的本來就是架構型的在所謂的跨部會協作機制但是你們是作為研發單位嘛是研究機關這部分的時候到底在就是說對蓄碳燃金跟生殖碳會你們預計有什麼樣的成果出現呢\n\n5\n00:01:43,332 --> 00:02:02,313\n譬如說去探南京市中央研究院的計畫但是他也必須要跟行政院合作因為要跟台電要做這個驗證跟台電做驗證台電是屬於經濟部經濟部這邊也需要要做一些好你這樣講還是一個比較架構型的部分因為沒有看到人家實際上成果的部分\n\n6\n00:02:02,873 --> 00:02:17,061\n那我繼續再問下去繼續再往下面看到說因為研究的能量的CG是非常重要的那我們繼續往下看因為在你們的預算的部分雖然是最明年的規向編列可是你們在呈現114年的亮點成果當中有四個那我特別針對到我們所重視的半導體的部分看到一個是開發光電半導體低碳雷射智慧製造技術這一部分\n\n7\n00:02:30,009 --> 00:02:56,386\n有這樣的一個內容那我們就想要問的是說這些都是一個複合式的技術整合特別是很重要的是包括說你們用到這部分是用到整合共用平台的一個設施那這些部分好很重要但是我們就想問一下既然因為出現了一個字就是我這次應該寫下低碳雷射製造技術對笨寶體的研發的定位是什麼就請問那包括經費是邊月是多少\n\n8\n00:02:57,974 --> 00:03:14,940\n這個是我們資助學術研究機構在智慧製造我們需要能夠有低排碳的節能的這種設備那雷射相關的應用的設備非常的多\n\n9\n00:03:15,940 --> 00:03:43,608\n那我們當然會允許學界提出他們的這個想法好謝謝如果這樣子預算還沒有說出數字那我們現在看一下這邊就您所說的部分您也是在做這個半導體的這個專家那我們現在看一下在台灣半導體的研發焦點當中其實有三大類別第一個部分是在光學模擬就是在光刻機的部分第二部分是雷射晶片的研發第三個是雷射光學系統的這個整合\n\n10\n00:03:44,668 --> 00:04:08,282\n那就在這三大部分的時候呢相對於我們的雷射研發技術的優勢是雷射晶片設計那相對於我剛才說的那三大類的部分呢那三者的這三部分的研發應該以哪些為優先啊這三個都很重要優先順序對最後要做成系統的話這三部分都要有如果缺了一個就沒有辦法完成最後的系統\n\n11\n00:04:10,610 --> 00:04:24,095\n主委您是做半導體研究的專家您在這邊我們其實知道前面的光學模擬跟雷射晶片研發因為我們的特殊性就是在雷射晶片的研發我們的強項在晶片沒錯\n\n12\n00:04:27,476 --> 00:04:53,865\n對但是雷射晶片的設計對吧而且是在製程這邊部分的這邊的研發能量嘛對不對但是雷射的部分因為它用到化合物半導體所以化合物半導體的人才就非常重要就是因為要產生光嘛好那如果這樣子表示這樣的政策是由國科會由上而下的這樣子去要去推動有一定的經費在編列是嗎\n\n13\n00:04:54,853 --> 00:05:11,962\n是我們的政策面就是要推動這種產業但是這個產業在產業之前要有學術的研發所以我們就會有這種專案那鼓勵學者來做研發好那目前我們在我們的助理在找出來的發現上說在\n\n14\n00:05:13,863 --> 00:05:19,049\n科研的經費當中有420億原來還沒有被刪掉的部分就是有420億現在也是408億它是屬於一個專業項目但是我剛才就說你看起來是有點像目的性的研發我覺得應該確認這一點是說由上到下的這樣子一個安排\n\n15\n00:05:33,484 --> 00:05:58,817\n那我們現在繼續往下看的時候可是呢我們目前我們找到的資料當中出現到的是說雷射低碳製造的這個技術它是一個探索未知在領域當中那真正的一個實現的話是目前是國科會工程技術研發處裡面到長期的支持那完成那個專題研究計畫的一個成果並沒有是一個新編列的一個獨立項目\n\n16\n00:05:59,737 --> 00:06:25,356\n這個部分我們可以看到一些證據呈現出來了就是包括的是今年的6月4號的時候你們把它當作亮點去研究那我們所看到的這個資料是在清華大學的動力機械工程研究所的李明昌教授他所拿到的這個計畫當中他說他在就是呈現出來他在光電半導體這部分在雷射的低碳的雷射技術上面的一個製造技術有這個突破等等\n\n17\n00:06:25,956 --> 00:06:48,024\n但是給的經費就在百萬到千萬之間因為它是個別型的專業計畫那我就剛才再問的是您這邊部分一直都還沒有說到如果是對於光學的雷射光學的這一部分的尤其是比較在屬於後端的就是在製造這一部分的部分你的經費到底是多少因為看起來的話你們剛才沒有說他的經費是多少\n\n18\n00:06:48,724 --> 00:07:10,421\n我們有時候匡列經費就是這個大的範圍但是學界的教授要提出什麼樣的計畫我們事先沒有辦法預期所以並沒有辦法區分說剛剛講譬如說三部分哪一部分是多少錢這個倒不見得會完全準確主委所以你們目前沒有這三大類的研發經費嗎\n\n19\n00:07:13,869 --> 00:07:28,903\n包括委員前面那個李老師的計畫是在我們智慧製造這個政策專案底下的那右邊提到這幾項是跟未來矽光子有關的這個研究對那你是未來嘛對不對所以現在沒有編嘛對不對是不是在114也沒有這個是100115的\n\n20\n00:07:31,930 --> 00:08:00,118\n呃我們在115是有一個矽光子的轉換對我知道你們今天業務報告已經寫了但是我們目前也已經有很多學者主動提出相關的這個研究對所以這個地方就是非常的知道你知道這個政策的研發當中其實那個連續性是看出來是有一個斷點的因為你們在114年當中並沒有針對這個部分去提出來的有當作一個重點的政策目標當作是一個一個內一個預算去編列齁因為我這一部分\n\n21\n00:08:00,478 --> 00:08:15,730\n那我們為什麼會這樣說呢因為事實上我們看到這裡台灣的雷射技術的領域的發展光學系統的部分呢你可以看到如果是一個完整的雷射光學系統裡面呢他就這五大部分這五大部分可是在台灣的研究重點這部分呢我們仍舊是在驅動晶片跟\n\n22\n00:08:19,173 --> 00:08:46,986\n控制系統晶片設計上面是強項啊但是它後面的在光學系統整合光學元件設計雷射光源開發這部分看到前面兩者是中等可是它的後面的雷射光源就是你們今天講到說在變到115年這部分它是較少較弱的項目啊是那個委員講的沒有錯就是因為這個樣子我們才要發展啊因為矽光子矽光子是現在我們AI新時代建設裡面一個很重要的項目\n\n23\n00:08:47,466 --> 00:09:07,904\n这个项目的重要性是因为我们将来在资料中心的设备将来要从这个铜线的这个资料传输的设备要进到光纤资料传输的设备这个过程当中所以它是后端的吗它是属于在后端的传输的部分吗对就是我们的晶片在做运算我们已经很强了\n\n24\n00:09:09,385 --> 00:09:37,603\n但是我们有很大量的这个训练的资料还有这个我们叫做应用的时候叫Inference这个资料资料量都很大我们要跨设备之间传输就要变成以后要用光纤光纤还要再进到我们的机柜里面不是只有在外面的这个缆线而已那到机柜里面要跟细的半导体要结合我们很强的细半导体所以现在全世界都希望跟台湾来合作做这个细光纸\n\n25\n00:09:38,303 --> 00:09:58,392\n能夠從細的晶片到光的這個晶片能夠整合在同樣的封裝以及這個光的模組所以我們要發展這樣的這個技術所以就加強投入主委你現在所表示的意思是說你們的這樣的歷程是從114年沒有編只是一個個別型的有人研究研究期間那個自由型的研究我們都會支持但是圖案就是在115年\n\n26\n00:09:59,793 --> 00:10:26,296\n就算114年出現這個成果或是說怎麼樣考量你們就直接到115年在編列就是今年在編115年預算中你就把它放進去是這樣的意思嗎是就是來鼓勵我們要做光學研究光系統的光通訊的等等然後就能夠整合到我們的這個細光值可是你現在看喔這個部分你現在的雷射光源的開發這部分事實上是真的是較少的那目前我請問一下那其他國家的在這個領域上面的研究是跟我們領先程度怎麼樣\n\n27\n00:10:27,017 --> 00:10:39,057\n其他也有一些先進國家我們也希望他們要跟台灣來合作不管是美國日本歐洲都有是他跟我們合作但是還是說他們已經在領先我們去協助我們去幫我們去學習什麼之類的\n\n28\n00:10:40,457 --> 00:10:58,334\n這個在科學研究上面台灣其實並沒有落後只是說在產業的應用上面我們比較少那我們需要從科學研究加強這種系統層級的整合這個是需要花時間的那你預計大概多久會有一些成果出現我們編的大概四年未來這四年那這個經費多少\n\n29\n00:11:00,941 --> 00:11:23,753\n經費我們原來零零星星的在跟矽光子有關的計畫大概一年大概三億左右三億嗎一年大概三億左右零零星星就是矽光子對但是明年2015年我們增加了五億讓它提高到八億因為我們要加強這方面的研究的能量\n\n30\n00:11:24,153 --> 00:11:42,549\n好主委你這樣講可能有點前後矛盾還是說現在真的是初期階段而已因為這麼三億而已那你現在就是你們在今天的報告當中呈現來的雷射精密光學跟半導體的製程啊也許是新的領域但是看起來到應用裡面就像你說說應用真的距離還差很遠啊\n\n31\n00:11:44,141 --> 00:12:05,602\n包括委員因為委員談的就是雷射在製程設備上的這個應用那是智慧製造但是我講的是整個矽光子我剛講的是整個矽光子在明年的預算會增加了5億大概頭頭會到8億所以你覺得慢慢的以後繼續在4年之後再繼續再編應該是有機會在多少年時程上可以達到一個效果\n\n32\n00:12:05,942 --> 00:12:30,525\n我們現在編的預算明年增加5億但是卓院長有承諾說如果我們進展順利的話因為這個對台灣產業界非常重要可以逐年再增加我們希望可以這樣好那到時候會造成什麼樣的效果我想這是非常重要因為這邊可能是跟中研院的物理光學研究領域事實上他才是扮演主力的當然我們希望說你們剛才那個做政策的轉折其實是\n\n33\n00:12:31,326 --> 00:12:50,647\n有點快就是剛才說的113年113年都沒編那114年有一個亮點然後之後後來看到這個趨勢這一部分我希望你國會這邊就做一個這邊的政策轉折部分做一個報告給大家本期好嗎好謝謝就希望說更出來是一個政策性的主要對我們台灣都是好的事情好謝謝主委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n11226\t12967\t有請吳主委請吳主委劉委員好好 主委好那今天跟你來討論的是在國科衛的在預算這部分跟業務報告的內容瓜瓜是跨域統的部分我們看到的是在國科衛跟中研院他們在預算的這部分編列當中都有關於叫淨零碳排\n39326\t51665\t國會會這邊有六項中間院也有五項兩個共同的部分就是在聚碳燃清跟升值碳匯這部分我們就想要請問一下\n53047\t80527\t主委喔 那您對於跟中研院在六大領域當中有兩項重疊上面的話在淨齡探 去探男性跟生殖探會這部分的它在經費跟研究時程上跟成果上面有什麼樣的差異性可以做一下簡單的說明我們原則上來講國科會編這個科技預算是包含幫中央研究院還有行政院的各部會一起編列這個科技預算\n81452\t102025\t當然中央研究院還有一部分預算是他直接從總統府那邊編的但是我們過程當中我們都會一起看一起討論您這個是比較粗略型的本來就是架構型的在所謂的跨部會協作機制但是你們是作為研發單位嘛是研究機關這部分的時候到底在就是說對蓄碳燃金跟生殖碳會你們預計有什麼樣的成果出現呢\n103332\t122313\t譬如說去探南京市中央研究院的計畫但是他也必須要跟行政院合作因為要跟台電要做這個驗證跟台電做驗證台電是屬於經濟部經濟部這邊也需要要做一些好 你這樣講還是一個比較架構型的部分因為沒有看到人家實際上成果的部分\n122873\t137061\t那我繼續再問下去繼續再往下面看到說因為研究的能量的CG是非常重要的那我們繼續往下看因為在你們的預算的部分雖然是最明年的規向編列可是你們在呈現114年的亮點成果當中有四個那我特別針對到我們所重視的半導體的部分看到一個是開發光電半導體低碳雷射智慧製造技術這一部分\n150009\t176386\t有這樣的一個內容那我們就想要問的是說這些都是一個複合式的技術整合特別是很重要的是包括說你們用到這部分是用到整合共用平台的一個設施那這些部分好很重要但是我們就想問一下既然因為出現了一個字就是我這次應該寫下低碳雷射製造技術對笨寶體的研發的定位是什麼就請問那包括經費是邊月是多少\n177974\t194940\t這個是我們資助學術研究機構在智慧製造我們需要能夠有低排碳的節能的這種設備那雷射相關的應用的設備非常的多\n195940\t223608\t那我們當然會允許學界提出他們的這個想法好 謝謝如果這樣子預算還沒有說出數字那我們現在看一下這邊就您所說的部分您也是在做這個半導體的這個專家那我們現在看一下在台灣半導體的研發焦點當中其實有三大類別第一個部分是在光學模擬就是在光刻機的部分第二部分是雷射晶片的研發第三個是雷射光學系統的這個整合\n224668\t248282\t那就在這三大部分的時候呢相對於我們的雷射研發技術的優勢是雷射晶片設計那相對於我剛才說的那三大類的部分呢那三者的這三部分的研發應該以哪些為優先啊這三個都很重要優先順序對最後要做成系統的話這三部分都要有如果缺了一個就沒有辦法完成最後的系統\n250610\t264095\t主委您是做半導體研究的專家您在這邊我們其實知道前面的光學模擬跟雷射晶片研發因為我們的特殊性就是在雷射晶片的研發我們的強項在晶片沒錯\n267476\t293865\t對 但是雷射晶片的設計對吧而且是在製程這邊部分的這邊的研發能量嘛 對不對但是雷射的部分因為它用到化合物半導體所以化合物半導體的人才就非常重要就是因為要產生光嘛好 那如果這樣子表示這樣的政策是由國科會由上而下的這樣子去要去推動有一定的經費在編列 是嗎\n294853\t311962\t是 我們的政策面就是要推動這種產業但是這個產業在產業之前要有學術的研發所以我們就會有這種專案那鼓勵學者來做研發好 那目前我們在我們的助理在找出來的發現上說在\n313863\t319049\t科研的經費當中有420億原來還沒有被刪掉的部分就是有420億現在也是408億它是屬於一個專業項目但是我剛才就說你看起來是有點像目的性的研發我覺得應該確認這一點是說由上到下的這樣子一個安排\n333484\t358817\t那我們現在繼續往下看的時候可是呢我們目前我們找到的資料當中出現到的是說雷射低碳製造的這個技術它是一個探索未知在領域當中那真正的一個實現的話是目前是國科會工程技術研發處裡面到長期的支持那完成那個專題研究計畫的一個成果並沒有是一個新編列的一個獨立項目\n359737\t385356\t這個部分我們可以看到一些證據呈現出來了就是包括的是今年的6月4號的時候你們把它當作亮點去研究那我們所看到的這個資料是在清華大學的動力機械工程研究所的李明昌教授他所拿到的這個計畫當中他說他在就是呈現出來他在光電半導體這部分在雷射的低碳的雷射技術上面的一個製造技術有這個突破等等\n385956\t408024\t但是給的經費就在百萬到千萬之間因為它是個別型的專業計畫那我就剛才再問的是您這邊部分一直都還沒有說到如果是對於光學的雷射光學的這一部分的尤其是比較在屬於後端的就是在製造這一部分的部分你的經費到底是多少因為看起來的話你們剛才沒有說他的經費是多少\n408724\t430421\t我們有時候匡列經費就是這個大的範圍但是學界的教授要提出什麼樣的計畫我們事先沒有辦法預期所以並沒有辦法區分說剛剛講譬如說三部分哪一部分是多少錢這個倒不見得會完全準確主委所以你們目前沒有這三大類的研發經費嗎\n433869\t448903\t包括委員前面那個李老師的計畫是在我們智慧製造這個政策專案底下的那右邊提到這幾項是跟未來矽光子有關的這個研究對 那你是未來嘛 對不對所以現在沒有編嘛 對不對是不是在114也沒有這個是100 115的\n451930\t480118\t呃 我們在115是有一個矽光子的轉換對 我知道你們今天業務報告已經寫了但是我們目前也已經有很多學者主動提出相關的這個研究對 所以這個地方就是非常的知道你知道這個政策的研發當中其實那個連續性是看出來是有一個斷點的因為你們在114年當中並沒有針對這個部分去提出來的有當作一個重點的政策目標當作是一個 一個內 一個預算去編列齁因為我 這一部分\n480478\t495730\t那我們為什麼會這樣說呢因為事實上我們看到這裡台灣的雷射技術的領域的發展光學系統的部分呢你可以看到如果是一個完整的雷射光學系統裡面呢他就這五大部分這五大部分可是在台灣的研究重點這部分呢我們仍舊是在驅動晶片跟\n499173\t526986\t控制系統晶片設計上面是強項啊但是它後面的在光學系統整合光學元件設計雷射光源開發這部分看到前面兩者是中等可是它的後面的雷射光源就是你們今天講到說在變到115年這部分它是較少較弱的項目啊是 那個委員講的沒有錯就是因為這個樣子我們才要發展啊因為矽光子矽光子是現在我們AI新時代建設裡面一個很重要的項目\n527466\t547904\t这个项目的重要性是因为我们将来在资料中心的设备将来要从这个铜线的这个资料传输的设备要进到光纤资料传输的设备这个过程当中所以它是后端的吗它是属于在后端的传输的部分吗对 就是我们的晶片在做运算我们已经很强了\n549385\t577603\t但是我们有很大量的这个训练的资料还有这个我们叫做应用的时候叫Inference这个资料资料量都很大我们要跨设备之间传输就要变成以后要用光纤光纤还要再进到我们的机柜里面不是只有在外面的这个缆线而已那到机柜里面要跟细的半导体要结合我们很强的细半导体所以现在全世界都希望跟台湾来合作做这个细光纸\n578303\t598392\t能夠從細的晶片到光的這個晶片能夠整合在同樣的封裝以及這個光的模組所以我們要發展這樣的這個技術所以就加強投入主委你現在所表示的意思是說你們的這樣的歷程是從114年沒有編只是一個個別型的有人研究研究期間那個自由型的研究我們都會支持但是圖案就是在115年\n599793\t626296\t就算114年出現這個成果或是說怎麼樣考量你們就直接到115年在編列就是今年在編115年預算中你就把它放進去是這樣的意思嗎是 就是來鼓勵我們要做光學研究光系統的 光通訊的等等然後就能夠整合到我們的這個細光值可是你現在看喔這個部分你現在的雷射光源的開發這部分事實上是真的是較少的那目前我請問一下那其他國家的在這個領域上面的研究是跟我們領先程度怎麼樣\n627017\t639057\t其他也有一些先進國家我們也希望他們要跟台灣來合作不管是美國 日本 歐洲都有是他跟我們合作但是還是說他們已經在領先我們去協助我們去幫 我們去學習什麼之類的\n640457\t658334\t這個在科學研究上面台灣其實並沒有落後只是說在產業的應用上面我們比較少那我們需要從科學研究加強這種系統層級的整合這個是需要花時間的那你預計大概多久會有一些成果出現我們編的大概四年 未來這四年那這個經費多少\n660941\t683753\t經費 我們原來零零星星的在跟矽光子有關的計畫大概一年大概三億左右三億嗎一年大概三億左右零零星星就是矽光子 對但是明年 2015年我們增加了五億讓它提高到八億因為我們要加強這方面的研究的能量\n684153\t702549\t好 主委你這樣講 可能有點前後矛盾還是說現在真的是初期階段而已因為這麼三億而已那你現在就是你們在今天的報告當中呈現來的雷射精密光學跟半導體的製程啊也許是新的領域但是看起來到應用裡面就像你說說應用真的距離還差很遠啊\n704141\t725602\t包括委員因為委員談的就是雷射在製程設備上的這個應用那是智慧製造但是我講的是整個矽光子我剛講的是整個矽光子在明年的預算會增加了5億大概頭頭會到8億所以你覺得慢慢的以後繼續在4年之後再繼續再編應該是有機會在多少年時程上可以達到一個效果\n725942\t750525\t我們現在編的預算明年增加5億但是卓院長有承諾說如果我們進展順利的話因為這個對台灣產業界非常重要可以逐年再增加我們希望可以這樣好 那到時候會造成什麼樣的效果我想這是非常重要因為這邊可能是跟中研院的物理光學研究領域事實上他才是扮演主力的當然我們希望說你們剛才那個做政策的轉折其實是\n751326\t770647\t有點快就是剛才說的113年113年都沒編那114年有一個亮點然後之後後來看到這個趨勢這一部分我希望你國會這邊就做一個這邊的政策轉折部分做一個報告給大家本期好嗎好 謝謝就希望說更出來是一個政策性的主要對我們台灣都是好的事情好 謝謝主委\n","txt":"有請吳主委請吳主委劉委員好好 主委好那今天跟你來討論的是在國科衛的在預算這部分跟業務報告的內容瓜瓜是跨域統的部分我們看到的是在國科衛跟中研院他們在預算的這部分編列當中都有關於叫淨零碳排\n國會會這邊有六項中間院也有五項兩個共同的部分就是在聚碳燃清跟升值碳匯這部分我們就想要請問一下\n主委喔 那您對於跟中研院在六大領域當中有兩項重疊上面的話在淨齡探 去探男性跟生殖探會這部分的它在經費跟研究時程上跟成果上面有什麼樣的差異性可以做一下簡單的說明我們原則上來講國科會編這個科技預算是包含幫中央研究院還有行政院的各部會一起編列這個科技預算\n當然中央研究院還有一部分預算是他直接從總統府那邊編的但是我們過程當中我們都會一起看一起討論您這個是比較粗略型的本來就是架構型的在所謂的跨部會協作機制但是你們是作為研發單位嘛是研究機關這部分的時候到底在就是說對蓄碳燃金跟生殖碳會你們預計有什麼樣的成果出現呢\n譬如說去探南京市中央研究院的計畫但是他也必須要跟行政院合作因為要跟台電要做這個驗證跟台電做驗證台電是屬於經濟部經濟部這邊也需要要做一些好 你這樣講還是一個比較架構型的部分因為沒有看到人家實際上成果的部分\n那我繼續再問下去繼續再往下面看到說因為研究的能量的CG是非常重要的那我們繼續往下看因為在你們的預算的部分雖然是最明年的規向編列可是你們在呈現114年的亮點成果當中有四個那我特別針對到我們所重視的半導體的部分看到一個是開發光電半導體低碳雷射智慧製造技術這一部分\n有這樣的一個內容那我們就想要問的是說這些都是一個複合式的技術整合特別是很重要的是包括說你們用到這部分是用到整合共用平台的一個設施那這些部分好很重要但是我們就想問一下既然因為出現了一個字就是我這次應該寫下低碳雷射製造技術對笨寶體的研發的定位是什麼就請問那包括經費是邊月是多少\n這個是我們資助學術研究機構在智慧製造我們需要能夠有低排碳的節能的這種設備那雷射相關的應用的設備非常的多\n那我們當然會允許學界提出他們的這個想法好 謝謝如果這樣子預算還沒有說出數字那我們現在看一下這邊就您所說的部分您也是在做這個半導體的這個專家那我們現在看一下在台灣半導體的研發焦點當中其實有三大類別第一個部分是在光學模擬就是在光刻機的部分第二部分是雷射晶片的研發第三個是雷射光學系統的這個整合\n那就在這三大部分的時候呢相對於我們的雷射研發技術的優勢是雷射晶片設計那相對於我剛才說的那三大類的部分呢那三者的這三部分的研發應該以哪些為優先啊這三個都很重要優先順序對最後要做成系統的話這三部分都要有如果缺了一個就沒有辦法完成最後的系統\n主委您是做半導體研究的專家您在這邊我們其實知道前面的光學模擬跟雷射晶片研發因為我們的特殊性就是在雷射晶片的研發我們的強項在晶片沒錯\n對 但是雷射晶片的設計對吧而且是在製程這邊部分的這邊的研發能量嘛 對不對但是雷射的部分因為它用到化合物半導體所以化合物半導體的人才就非常重要就是因為要產生光嘛好 那如果這樣子表示這樣的政策是由國科會由上而下的這樣子去要去推動有一定的經費在編列 是嗎\n是 我們的政策面就是要推動這種產業但是這個產業在產業之前要有學術的研發所以我們就會有這種專案那鼓勵學者來做研發好 那目前我們在我們的助理在找出來的發現上說在\n科研的經費當中有420億原來還沒有被刪掉的部分就是有420億現在也是408億它是屬於一個專業項目但是我剛才就說你看起來是有點像目的性的研發我覺得應該確認這一點是說由上到下的這樣子一個安排\n那我們現在繼續往下看的時候可是呢我們目前我們找到的資料當中出現到的是說雷射低碳製造的這個技術它是一個探索未知在領域當中那真正的一個實現的話是目前是國科會工程技術研發處裡面到長期的支持那完成那個專題研究計畫的一個成果並沒有是一個新編列的一個獨立項目\n這個部分我們可以看到一些證據呈現出來了就是包括的是今年的6月4號的時候你們把它當作亮點去研究那我們所看到的這個資料是在清華大學的動力機械工程研究所的李明昌教授他所拿到的這個計畫當中他說他在就是呈現出來他在光電半導體這部分在雷射的低碳的雷射技術上面的一個製造技術有這個突破等等\n但是給的經費就在百萬到千萬之間因為它是個別型的專業計畫那我就剛才再問的是您這邊部分一直都還沒有說到如果是對於光學的雷射光學的這一部分的尤其是比較在屬於後端的就是在製造這一部分的部分你的經費到底是多少因為看起來的話你們剛才沒有說他的經費是多少\n我們有時候匡列經費就是這個大的範圍但是學界的教授要提出什麼樣的計畫我們事先沒有辦法預期所以並沒有辦法區分說剛剛講譬如說三部分哪一部分是多少錢這個倒不見得會完全準確主委所以你們目前沒有這三大類的研發經費嗎\n包括委員前面那個李老師的計畫是在我們智慧製造這個政策專案底下的那右邊提到這幾項是跟未來矽光子有關的這個研究對 那你是未來嘛 對不對所以現在沒有編嘛 對不對是不是在114也沒有這個是100 115的\n呃 我們在115是有一個矽光子的轉換對 我知道你們今天業務報告已經寫了但是我們目前也已經有很多學者主動提出相關的這個研究對 所以這個地方就是非常的知道你知道這個政策的研發當中其實那個連續性是看出來是有一個斷點的因為你們在114年當中並沒有針對這個部分去提出來的有當作一個重點的政策目標當作是一個 一個內 一個預算去編列齁因為我 這一部分\n那我們為什麼會這樣說呢因為事實上我們看到這裡台灣的雷射技術的領域的發展光學系統的部分呢你可以看到如果是一個完整的雷射光學系統裡面呢他就這五大部分這五大部分可是在台灣的研究重點這部分呢我們仍舊是在驅動晶片跟\n控制系統晶片設計上面是強項啊但是它後面的在光學系統整合光學元件設計雷射光源開發這部分看到前面兩者是中等可是它的後面的雷射光源就是你們今天講到說在變到115年這部分它是較少較弱的項目啊是 那個委員講的沒有錯就是因為這個樣子我們才要發展啊因為矽光子矽光子是現在我們AI新時代建設裡面一個很重要的項目\n这个项目的重要性是因为我们将来在资料中心的设备将来要从这个铜线的这个资料传输的设备要进到光纤资料传输的设备这个过程当中所以它是后端的吗它是属于在后端的传输的部分吗对 就是我们的晶片在做运算我们已经很强了\n但是我们有很大量的这个训练的资料还有这个我们叫做应用的时候叫Inference这个资料资料量都很大我们要跨设备之间传输就要变成以后要用光纤光纤还要再进到我们的机柜里面不是只有在外面的这个缆线而已那到机柜里面要跟细的半导体要结合我们很强的细半导体所以现在全世界都希望跟台湾来合作做这个细光纸\n能夠從細的晶片到光的這個晶片能夠整合在同樣的封裝以及這個光的模組所以我們要發展這樣的這個技術所以就加強投入主委你現在所表示的意思是說你們的這樣的歷程是從114年沒有編只是一個個別型的有人研究研究期間那個自由型的研究我們都會支持但是圖案就是在115年\n就算114年出現這個成果或是說怎麼樣考量你們就直接到115年在編列就是今年在編115年預算中你就把它放進去是這樣的意思嗎是 就是來鼓勵我們要做光學研究光系統的 光通訊的等等然後就能夠整合到我們的這個細光值可是你現在看喔這個部分你現在的雷射光源的開發這部分事實上是真的是較少的那目前我請問一下那其他國家的在這個領域上面的研究是跟我們領先程度怎麼樣\n其他也有一些先進國家我們也希望他們要跟台灣來合作不管是美國 日本 歐洲都有是他跟我們合作但是還是說他們已經在領先我們去協助我們去幫 我們去學習什麼之類的\n這個在科學研究上面台灣其實並沒有落後只是說在產業的應用上面我們比較少那我們需要從科學研究加強這種系統層級的整合這個是需要花時間的那你預計大概多久會有一些成果出現我們編的大概四年 未來這四年那這個經費多少\n經費 我們原來零零星星的在跟矽光子有關的計畫大概一年大概三億左右三億嗎一年大概三億左右零零星星就是矽光子 對但是明年 2015年我們增加了五億讓它提高到八億因為我們要加強這方面的研究的能量\n好 主委你這樣講 可能有點前後矛盾還是說現在真的是初期階段而已因為這麼三億而已那你現在就是你們在今天的報告當中呈現來的雷射精密光學跟半導體的製程啊也許是新的領域但是看起來到應用裡面就像你說說應用真的距離還差很遠啊\n包括委員因為委員談的就是雷射在製程設備上的這個應用那是智慧製造但是我講的是整個矽光子我剛講的是整個矽光子在明年的預算會增加了5億大概頭頭會到8億所以你覺得慢慢的以後繼續在4年之後再繼續再編應該是有機會在多少年時程上可以達到一個效果\n我們現在編的預算明年增加5億但是卓院長有承諾說如果我們進展順利的話因為這個對台灣產業界非常重要可以逐年再增加我們希望可以這樣好 那到時候會造成什麼樣的效果我想這是非常重要因為這邊可能是跟中研院的物理光學研究領域事實上他才是扮演主力的當然我們希望說你們剛才那個做政策的轉折其實是\n有點快就是剛才說的113年113年都沒編那114年有一個亮點然後之後後來看到這個趨勢這一部分我希望你國會這邊就做一個這邊的政策轉折部分做一個報告給大家本期好嗎好 謝謝就希望說更出來是一個政策性的主要對我們台灣都是好的事情好 謝謝主委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:11.226 --> 00:12.967\n有請吳主委請吳主委劉委員好好主委好那今天跟你來討論的是在國科衛的在預算這部分跟業務報告的內容瓜瓜是跨域統的部分我們看到的是在國科衛跟中研院他們在預算的這部分編列當中都有關於叫淨零碳排\n\n00:39.326 --> 00:51.665\n國會會這邊有六項中間院也有五項兩個共同的部分就是在聚碳燃清跟升值碳匯這部分我們就想要請問一下\n\n00:53.047 --> 01:20.527\n主委喔那您對於跟中研院在六大領域當中有兩項重疊上面的話在淨齡探去探男性跟生殖探會這部分的它在經費跟研究時程上跟成果上面有什麼樣的差異性可以做一下簡單的說明我們原則上來講國科會編這個科技預算是包含幫中央研究院還有行政院的各部會一起編列這個科技預算\n\n01:21.452 --> 01:42.025\n當然中央研究院還有一部分預算是他直接從總統府那邊編的但是我們過程當中我們都會一起看一起討論您這個是比較粗略型的本來就是架構型的在所謂的跨部會協作機制但是你們是作為研發單位嘛是研究機關這部分的時候到底在就是說對蓄碳燃金跟生殖碳會你們預計有什麼樣的成果出現呢\n\n01:43.332 --> 02:02.313\n譬如說去探南京市中央研究院的計畫但是他也必須要跟行政院合作因為要跟台電要做這個驗證跟台電做驗證台電是屬於經濟部經濟部這邊也需要要做一些好你這樣講還是一個比較架構型的部分因為沒有看到人家實際上成果的部分\n\n02:02.873 --> 02:17.061\n那我繼續再問下去繼續再往下面看到說因為研究的能量的CG是非常重要的那我們繼續往下看因為在你們的預算的部分雖然是最明年的規向編列可是你們在呈現114年的亮點成果當中有四個那我特別針對到我們所重視的半導體的部分看到一個是開發光電半導體低碳雷射智慧製造技術這一部分\n\n02:30.009 --> 02:56.386\n有這樣的一個內容那我們就想要問的是說這些都是一個複合式的技術整合特別是很重要的是包括說你們用到這部分是用到整合共用平台的一個設施那這些部分好很重要但是我們就想問一下既然因為出現了一個字就是我這次應該寫下低碳雷射製造技術對笨寶體的研發的定位是什麼就請問那包括經費是邊月是多少\n\n02:57.974 --> 03:14.940\n這個是我們資助學術研究機構在智慧製造我們需要能夠有低排碳的節能的這種設備那雷射相關的應用的設備非常的多\n\n03:15.940 --> 03:43.608\n那我們當然會允許學界提出他們的這個想法好謝謝如果這樣子預算還沒有說出數字那我們現在看一下這邊就您所說的部分您也是在做這個半導體的這個專家那我們現在看一下在台灣半導體的研發焦點當中其實有三大類別第一個部分是在光學模擬就是在光刻機的部分第二部分是雷射晶片的研發第三個是雷射光學系統的這個整合\n\n03:44.668 --> 04:08.282\n那就在這三大部分的時候呢相對於我們的雷射研發技術的優勢是雷射晶片設計那相對於我剛才說的那三大類的部分呢那三者的這三部分的研發應該以哪些為優先啊這三個都很重要優先順序對最後要做成系統的話這三部分都要有如果缺了一個就沒有辦法完成最後的系統\n\n04:10.610 --> 04:24.095\n主委您是做半導體研究的專家您在這邊我們其實知道前面的光學模擬跟雷射晶片研發因為我們的特殊性就是在雷射晶片的研發我們的強項在晶片沒錯\n\n04:27.476 --> 04:53.865\n對但是雷射晶片的設計對吧而且是在製程這邊部分的這邊的研發能量嘛對不對但是雷射的部分因為它用到化合物半導體所以化合物半導體的人才就非常重要就是因為要產生光嘛好那如果這樣子表示這樣的政策是由國科會由上而下的這樣子去要去推動有一定的經費在編列是嗎\n\n04:54.853 --> 05:11.962\n是我們的政策面就是要推動這種產業但是這個產業在產業之前要有學術的研發所以我們就會有這種專案那鼓勵學者來做研發好那目前我們在我們的助理在找出來的發現上說在\n\n05:13.863 --> 05:19.049\n科研的經費當中有420億原來還沒有被刪掉的部分就是有420億現在也是408億它是屬於一個專業項目但是我剛才就說你看起來是有點像目的性的研發我覺得應該確認這一點是說由上到下的這樣子一個安排\n\n05:33.484 --> 05:58.817\n那我們現在繼續往下看的時候可是呢我們目前我們找到的資料當中出現到的是說雷射低碳製造的這個技術它是一個探索未知在領域當中那真正的一個實現的話是目前是國科會工程技術研發處裡面到長期的支持那完成那個專題研究計畫的一個成果並沒有是一個新編列的一個獨立項目\n\n05:59.737 --> 06:25.356\n這個部分我們可以看到一些證據呈現出來了就是包括的是今年的6月4號的時候你們把它當作亮點去研究那我們所看到的這個資料是在清華大學的動力機械工程研究所的李明昌教授他所拿到的這個計畫當中他說他在就是呈現出來他在光電半導體這部分在雷射的低碳的雷射技術上面的一個製造技術有這個突破等等\n\n06:25.956 --> 06:48.024\n但是給的經費就在百萬到千萬之間因為它是個別型的專業計畫那我就剛才再問的是您這邊部分一直都還沒有說到如果是對於光學的雷射光學的這一部分的尤其是比較在屬於後端的就是在製造這一部分的部分你的經費到底是多少因為看起來的話你們剛才沒有說他的經費是多少\n\n06:48.724 --> 07:10.421\n我們有時候匡列經費就是這個大的範圍但是學界的教授要提出什麼樣的計畫我們事先沒有辦法預期所以並沒有辦法區分說剛剛講譬如說三部分哪一部分是多少錢這個倒不見得會完全準確主委所以你們目前沒有這三大類的研發經費嗎\n\n07:13.869 --> 07:28.903\n包括委員前面那個李老師的計畫是在我們智慧製造這個政策專案底下的那右邊提到這幾項是跟未來矽光子有關的這個研究對那你是未來嘛對不對所以現在沒有編嘛對不對是不是在114也沒有這個是100115的\n\n07:31.930 --> 08:00.118\n呃我們在115是有一個矽光子的轉換對我知道你們今天業務報告已經寫了但是我們目前也已經有很多學者主動提出相關的這個研究對所以這個地方就是非常的知道你知道這個政策的研發當中其實那個連續性是看出來是有一個斷點的因為你們在114年當中並沒有針對這個部分去提出來的有當作一個重點的政策目標當作是一個一個內一個預算去編列齁因為我這一部分\n\n08:00.478 --> 08:15.730\n那我們為什麼會這樣說呢因為事實上我們看到這裡台灣的雷射技術的領域的發展光學系統的部分呢你可以看到如果是一個完整的雷射光學系統裡面呢他就這五大部分這五大部分可是在台灣的研究重點這部分呢我們仍舊是在驅動晶片跟\n\n08:19.173 --> 08:46.986\n控制系統晶片設計上面是強項啊但是它後面的在光學系統整合光學元件設計雷射光源開發這部分看到前面兩者是中等可是它的後面的雷射光源就是你們今天講到說在變到115年這部分它是較少較弱的項目啊是那個委員講的沒有錯就是因為這個樣子我們才要發展啊因為矽光子矽光子是現在我們AI新時代建設裡面一個很重要的項目\n\n08:47.466 --> 09:07.904\n这个项目的重要性是因为我们将来在资料中心的设备将来要从这个铜线的这个资料传输的设备要进到光纤资料传输的设备这个过程当中所以它是后端的吗它是属于在后端的传输的部分吗对就是我们的晶片在做运算我们已经很强了\n\n09:09.385 --> 09:37.603\n但是我们有很大量的这个训练的资料还有这个我们叫做应用的时候叫Inference这个资料资料量都很大我们要跨设备之间传输就要变成以后要用光纤光纤还要再进到我们的机柜里面不是只有在外面的这个缆线而已那到机柜里面要跟细的半导体要结合我们很强的细半导体所以现在全世界都希望跟台湾来合作做这个细光纸\n\n09:38.303 --> 09:58.392\n能夠從細的晶片到光的這個晶片能夠整合在同樣的封裝以及這個光的模組所以我們要發展這樣的這個技術所以就加強投入主委你現在所表示的意思是說你們的這樣的歷程是從114年沒有編只是一個個別型的有人研究研究期間那個自由型的研究我們都會支持但是圖案就是在115年\n\n09:59.793 --> 10:26.296\n就算114年出現這個成果或是說怎麼樣考量你們就直接到115年在編列就是今年在編115年預算中你就把它放進去是這樣的意思嗎是就是來鼓勵我們要做光學研究光系統的光通訊的等等然後就能夠整合到我們的這個細光值可是你現在看喔這個部分你現在的雷射光源的開發這部分事實上是真的是較少的那目前我請問一下那其他國家的在這個領域上面的研究是跟我們領先程度怎麼樣\n\n10:27.017 --> 10:39.057\n其他也有一些先進國家我們也希望他們要跟台灣來合作不管是美國日本歐洲都有是他跟我們合作但是還是說他們已經在領先我們去協助我們去幫我們去學習什麼之類的\n\n10:40.457 --> 10:58.334\n這個在科學研究上面台灣其實並沒有落後只是說在產業的應用上面我們比較少那我們需要從科學研究加強這種系統層級的整合這個是需要花時間的那你預計大概多久會有一些成果出現我們編的大概四年未來這四年那這個經費多少\n\n11:00.941 --> 11:23.753\n經費我們原來零零星星的在跟矽光子有關的計畫大概一年大概三億左右三億嗎一年大概三億左右零零星星就是矽光子對但是明年2015年我們增加了五億讓它提高到八億因為我們要加強這方面的研究的能量\n\n11:24.153 --> 11:42.549\n好主委你這樣講可能有點前後矛盾還是說現在真的是初期階段而已因為這麼三億而已那你現在就是你們在今天的報告當中呈現來的雷射精密光學跟半導體的製程啊也許是新的領域但是看起來到應用裡面就像你說說應用真的距離還差很遠啊\n\n11:44.141 --> 12:05.602\n包括委員因為委員談的就是雷射在製程設備上的這個應用那是智慧製造但是我講的是整個矽光子我剛講的是整個矽光子在明年的預算會增加了5億大概頭頭會到8億所以你覺得慢慢的以後繼續在4年之後再繼續再編應該是有機會在多少年時程上可以達到一個效果\n\n12:05.942 --> 12:30.525\n我們現在編的預算明年增加5億但是卓院長有承諾說如果我們進展順利的話因為這個對台灣產業界非常重要可以逐年再增加我們希望可以這樣好那到時候會造成什麼樣的效果我想這是非常重要因為這邊可能是跟中研院的物理光學研究領域事實上他才是扮演主力的當然我們希望說你們剛才那個做政策的轉折其實是\n\n12:31.326 --> 12:50.647\n有點快就是剛才說的113年113年都沒編那114年有一個亮點然後之後後來看到這個趨勢這一部分我希望你國會這邊就做一個這邊的政策轉折部分做一個報告給大家本期好嗎好謝謝就希望說更出來是一個政策性的主要對我們台灣都是好的事情好謝謝主委\n\n","segments":[{"start":11.226,"end":12.967,"text":"有請吳主委請吳主委劉委員好好 主委好那今天跟你來討論的是在國科衛的在預算這部分跟業務報告的內容瓜瓜是跨域統的部分我們看到的是在國科衛跟中研院他們在預算的這部分編列當中都有關於叫淨零碳排"},{"start":39.326,"end":51.665,"text":"國會會這邊有六項中間院也有五項兩個共同的部分就是在聚碳燃清跟升值碳匯這部分我們就想要請問一下"},{"start":53.047,"end":80.527,"text":"主委喔 那您對於跟中研院在六大領域當中有兩項重疊上面的話在淨齡探 去探男性跟生殖探會這部分的它在經費跟研究時程上跟成果上面有什麼樣的差異性可以做一下簡單的說明我們原則上來講國科會編這個科技預算是包含幫中央研究院還有行政院的各部會一起編列這個科技預算"},{"start":81.452,"end":102.025,"text":"當然中央研究院還有一部分預算是他直接從總統府那邊編的但是我們過程當中我們都會一起看一起討論您這個是比較粗略型的本來就是架構型的在所謂的跨部會協作機制但是你們是作為研發單位嘛是研究機關這部分的時候到底在就是說對蓄碳燃金跟生殖碳會你們預計有什麼樣的成果出現呢"},{"start":103.332,"end":122.313,"text":"譬如說去探南京市中央研究院的計畫但是他也必須要跟行政院合作因為要跟台電要做這個驗證跟台電做驗證台電是屬於經濟部經濟部這邊也需要要做一些好 你這樣講還是一個比較架構型的部分因為沒有看到人家實際上成果的部分"},{"start":122.873,"end":137.061,"text":"那我繼續再問下去繼續再往下面看到說因為研究的能量的CG是非常重要的那我們繼續往下看因為在你們的預算的部分雖然是最明年的規向編列可是你們在呈現114年的亮點成果當中有四個那我特別針對到我們所重視的半導體的部分看到一個是開發光電半導體低碳雷射智慧製造技術這一部分"},{"start":150.009,"end":176.386,"text":"有這樣的一個內容那我們就想要問的是說這些都是一個複合式的技術整合特別是很重要的是包括說你們用到這部分是用到整合共用平台的一個設施那這些部分好很重要但是我們就想問一下既然因為出現了一個字就是我這次應該寫下低碳雷射製造技術對笨寶體的研發的定位是什麼就請問那包括經費是邊月是多少"},{"start":177.974,"end":194.94,"text":"這個是我們資助學術研究機構在智慧製造我們需要能夠有低排碳的節能的這種設備那雷射相關的應用的設備非常的多"},{"start":195.94,"end":223.608,"text":"那我們當然會允許學界提出他們的這個想法好 謝謝如果這樣子預算還沒有說出數字那我們現在看一下這邊就您所說的部分您也是在做這個半導體的這個專家那我們現在看一下在台灣半導體的研發焦點當中其實有三大類別第一個部分是在光學模擬就是在光刻機的部分第二部分是雷射晶片的研發第三個是雷射光學系統的這個整合"},{"start":224.668,"end":248.282,"text":"那就在這三大部分的時候呢相對於我們的雷射研發技術的優勢是雷射晶片設計那相對於我剛才說的那三大類的部分呢那三者的這三部分的研發應該以哪些為優先啊這三個都很重要優先順序對最後要做成系統的話這三部分都要有如果缺了一個就沒有辦法完成最後的系統"},{"start":250.61,"end":264.095,"text":"主委您是做半導體研究的專家您在這邊我們其實知道前面的光學模擬跟雷射晶片研發因為我們的特殊性就是在雷射晶片的研發我們的強項在晶片沒錯"},{"start":267.476,"end":293.865,"text":"對 但是雷射晶片的設計對吧而且是在製程這邊部分的這邊的研發能量嘛 對不對但是雷射的部分因為它用到化合物半導體所以化合物半導體的人才就非常重要就是因為要產生光嘛好 那如果這樣子表示這樣的政策是由國科會由上而下的這樣子去要去推動有一定的經費在編列 是嗎"},{"start":294.853,"end":311.962,"text":"是 我們的政策面就是要推動這種產業但是這個產業在產業之前要有學術的研發所以我們就會有這種專案那鼓勵學者來做研發好 那目前我們在我們的助理在找出來的發現上說在"},{"start":313.863,"end":319.049,"text":"科研的經費當中有420億原來還沒有被刪掉的部分就是有420億現在也是408億它是屬於一個專業項目但是我剛才就說你看起來是有點像目的性的研發我覺得應該確認這一點是說由上到下的這樣子一個安排"},{"start":333.484,"end":358.817,"text":"那我們現在繼續往下看的時候可是呢我們目前我們找到的資料當中出現到的是說雷射低碳製造的這個技術它是一個探索未知在領域當中那真正的一個實現的話是目前是國科會工程技術研發處裡面到長期的支持那完成那個專題研究計畫的一個成果並沒有是一個新編列的一個獨立項目"},{"start":359.737,"end":385.356,"text":"這個部分我們可以看到一些證據呈現出來了就是包括的是今年的6月4號的時候你們把它當作亮點去研究那我們所看到的這個資料是在清華大學的動力機械工程研究所的李明昌教授他所拿到的這個計畫當中他說他在就是呈現出來他在光電半導體這部分在雷射的低碳的雷射技術上面的一個製造技術有這個突破等等"},{"start":385.956,"end":408.024,"text":"但是給的經費就在百萬到千萬之間因為它是個別型的專業計畫那我就剛才再問的是您這邊部分一直都還沒有說到如果是對於光學的雷射光學的這一部分的尤其是比較在屬於後端的就是在製造這一部分的部分你的經費到底是多少因為看起來的話你們剛才沒有說他的經費是多少"},{"start":408.724,"end":430.421,"text":"我們有時候匡列經費就是這個大的範圍但是學界的教授要提出什麼樣的計畫我們事先沒有辦法預期所以並沒有辦法區分說剛剛講譬如說三部分哪一部分是多少錢這個倒不見得會完全準確主委所以你們目前沒有這三大類的研發經費嗎"},{"start":433.869,"end":448.903,"text":"包括委員前面那個李老師的計畫是在我們智慧製造這個政策專案底下的那右邊提到這幾項是跟未來矽光子有關的這個研究對 那你是未來嘛 對不對所以現在沒有編嘛 對不對是不是在114也沒有這個是100 115的"},{"start":451.93,"end":480.118,"text":"呃 我們在115是有一個矽光子的轉換對 我知道你們今天業務報告已經寫了但是我們目前也已經有很多學者主動提出相關的這個研究對 所以這個地方就是非常的知道你知道這個政策的研發當中其實那個連續性是看出來是有一個斷點的因為你們在114年當中並沒有針對這個部分去提出來的有當作一個重點的政策目標當作是一個 一個內 一個預算去編列齁因為我 這一部分"},{"start":480.478,"end":495.73,"text":"那我們為什麼會這樣說呢因為事實上我們看到這裡台灣的雷射技術的領域的發展光學系統的部分呢你可以看到如果是一個完整的雷射光學系統裡面呢他就這五大部分這五大部分可是在台灣的研究重點這部分呢我們仍舊是在驅動晶片跟"},{"start":499.173,"end":526.986,"text":"控制系統晶片設計上面是強項啊但是它後面的在光學系統整合光學元件設計雷射光源開發這部分看到前面兩者是中等可是它的後面的雷射光源就是你們今天講到說在變到115年這部分它是較少較弱的項目啊是 那個委員講的沒有錯就是因為這個樣子我們才要發展啊因為矽光子矽光子是現在我們AI新時代建設裡面一個很重要的項目"},{"start":527.466,"end":547.904,"text":"这个项目的重要性是因为我们将来在资料中心的设备将来要从这个铜线的这个资料传输的设备要进到光纤资料传输的设备这个过程当中所以它是后端的吗它是属于在后端的传输的部分吗对 就是我们的晶片在做运算我们已经很强了"},{"start":549.385,"end":577.603,"text":"但是我们有很大量的这个训练的资料还有这个我们叫做应用的时候叫Inference这个资料资料量都很大我们要跨设备之间传输就要变成以后要用光纤光纤还要再进到我们的机柜里面不是只有在外面的这个缆线而已那到机柜里面要跟细的半导体要结合我们很强的细半导体所以现在全世界都希望跟台湾来合作做这个细光纸"},{"start":578.303,"end":598.392,"text":"能夠從細的晶片到光的這個晶片能夠整合在同樣的封裝以及這個光的模組所以我們要發展這樣的這個技術所以就加強投入主委你現在所表示的意思是說你們的這樣的歷程是從114年沒有編只是一個個別型的有人研究研究期間那個自由型的研究我們都會支持但是圖案就是在115年"},{"start":599.793,"end":626.296,"text":"就算114年出現這個成果或是說怎麼樣考量你們就直接到115年在編列就是今年在編115年預算中你就把它放進去是這樣的意思嗎是 就是來鼓勵我們要做光學研究光系統的 光通訊的等等然後就能夠整合到我們的這個細光值可是你現在看喔這個部分你現在的雷射光源的開發這部分事實上是真的是較少的那目前我請問一下那其他國家的在這個領域上面的研究是跟我們領先程度怎麼樣"},{"start":627.017,"end":639.057,"text":"其他也有一些先進國家我們也希望他們要跟台灣來合作不管是美國 日本 歐洲都有是他跟我們合作但是還是說他們已經在領先我們去協助我們去幫 我們去學習什麼之類的"},{"start":640.457,"end":658.334,"text":"這個在科學研究上面台灣其實並沒有落後只是說在產業的應用上面我們比較少那我們需要從科學研究加強這種系統層級的整合這個是需要花時間的那你預計大概多久會有一些成果出現我們編的大概四年 未來這四年那這個經費多少"},{"start":660.941,"end":683.753,"text":"經費 我們原來零零星星的在跟矽光子有關的計畫大概一年大概三億左右三億嗎一年大概三億左右零零星星就是矽光子 對但是明年 2015年我們增加了五億讓它提高到八億因為我們要加強這方面的研究的能量"},{"start":684.153,"end":702.549,"text":"好 主委你這樣講 可能有點前後矛盾還是說現在真的是初期階段而已因為這麼三億而已那你現在就是你們在今天的報告當中呈現來的雷射精密光學跟半導體的製程啊也許是新的領域但是看起來到應用裡面就像你說說應用真的距離還差很遠啊"},{"start":704.141,"end":725.602,"text":"包括委員因為委員談的就是雷射在製程設備上的這個應用那是智慧製造但是我講的是整個矽光子我剛講的是整個矽光子在明年的預算會增加了5億大概頭頭會到8億所以你覺得慢慢的以後繼續在4年之後再繼續再編應該是有機會在多少年時程上可以達到一個效果"},{"start":725.942,"end":750.525,"text":"我們現在編的預算明年增加5億但是卓院長有承諾說如果我們進展順利的話因為這個對台灣產業界非常重要可以逐年再增加我們希望可以這樣好 那到時候會造成什麼樣的效果我想這是非常重要因為這邊可能是跟中研院的物理光學研究領域事實上他才是扮演主力的當然我們希望說你們剛才那個做政策的轉折其實是"},{"start":751.326,"end":770.647,"text":"有點快就是剛才說的113年113年都沒編那114年有一個亮點然後之後後來看到這個趨勢這一部分我希望你國會這邊就做一個這邊的政策轉折部分做一個報告給大家本期好嗎好 謝謝就希望說更出來是一個政策性的主要對我們台灣都是好的事情好 謝謝主委"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":321,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（9時54分）有請吳主委。"],["主席：請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：劉委員好。"],["劉委員書彬：主委好。今天要來跟你討論的是國科會的預算和業務報告的內容，包括跨域統合的部分，我們看到國科會跟中研院都有編列關於淨零碳排的預算，國科會有六項，中研院也有五項，兩個共同的部分就是在去碳燃氫跟生質碳匯這一部分，主委，你們跟中研院在六大領域當中有兩項重疊，就是在去碳燃氫跟生質碳匯這部分，你們兩個機關在經費、研究時程跟成果上有什麼樣的差異性？可以做一下簡單的說明嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：原則上來講，國科會是幫中央研究院還有行政院各部會一起編列這個科技預算，當然中研院還有一部分預算是直接從總統府那邊編的，但是在過程當中，我們都會一起看。"],["劉委員書彬：您這個是比較粗略型的，本來就是架構型的所謂跨部會協作機制，但是你們是研發單位、是研究機關，到底在去碳燃氫跟生質碳匯方面，你們預計會有什麼樣的成果出現呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：譬如說去碳燃氫是中央研究院的計畫，但是它也必須要跟行政院合作，因為要台電做驗證，台電屬於經濟部，所以經濟部這邊也需要做一些……"],["劉委員書彬：你這樣講還是一個比較架構型的部分，因為並沒有看到實際上的成果。","那我繼續問下去，因為研究的能量蓄積是非常重要的，你們的預算雖然是明年的，可是你們呈現的114年亮點成果有四個，我特別針對我們所重視的半導體，看到一個是開發光電半導體、低碳雷射智慧製造技術，那我們就想要問，這些都是複合式的技術整合，特別重要的是，你們在這部分是用到整合共用設施平台，這部分很重要喔！因為出現了一個字，就是低碳雷射製造技術，請問半導體研發的定位是什麼？經費編列多少？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這個是我們國科會資助學術研究機構，在智慧製造方面，我們希望能夠有低排碳的也就是節能的這種設備，那雷射相關應用的設備非常多，我們當然會允許學界提出他們的想法。"],["劉委員書彬：好，謝謝，如果這樣，你還沒說出預算的數字。","我們現在看一下，就您所說的部分，你也是半導體專家，在臺灣半導體的研發焦點當中其實有三大類別，第一個部分是在光學模擬，就是光刻機；第二部分是雷射晶片的研發；第三個是雷射光學系統的整合，就在這三大部分。我們雷射研發技術的優勢是雷射晶片設計，那三大類的研發應該以哪些為優先？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這三個都很重要，因為最後要……"],["劉委員書彬：優先順序，對。"],["吳主任委員誠文：最後要做成系統的話，這三部分都要有，如果缺了一個就沒有辦法完成最後的系統。"],["劉委員書彬：好，主委，您是做半導體研究的專家，我們知道光學模擬跟雷射晶片研發，因為我們的特殊性就是在雷射晶片的研發，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們的強項在晶片，沒錯。"],["劉委員書彬：是雷射晶片的設計，對吧？而且是在製程部分的研發能量，對不對？"],["吳主任委員誠文：但是雷射的部分，因為它用到化合物半導體，所以化合物半導體的人才就非常重要，因為要產生光嘛。"],["劉委員書彬：好，這樣的政策是國科會由上而下的去推動，有編列一定的經費，是嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，我們的政策面就是要推動這種產業，但是在產業之前要有學術的研發，所以我們就會有這種專案鼓勵學者來做研發。"],["劉委員書彬：好，目前我的助理在科研的經費當中找出420億，原來還沒有被刪掉的預算中就有420億，現在也是408億，它是屬於一個專業項目，但是我剛才說這看起來有點像目的性的研發，我覺得應該確認這一點，就是由上到下這樣的一個安排。我們現在繼續往下看，可是在我們目前找到的資料當中出現雷射低碳製造的技術是一個未知的領域，那真正的實現，目前是由國科會工程技術研發處長期的支持，完成了一個專題研究計畫的成果，並不是一個新編列的獨立項目。這個部分我們可以看到一些證據呈現出來了，包括在今年6月4號，你們把它當作亮點去研究，我們所看到的這個資料是清華大學動力機械工程研究所的李明蒼教授所拿到的計畫，他說他在光電半導體的雷射低碳製造技術有所突破等等，但是給的經費就在百萬到千萬之間，因為這是個別型的專業計畫。我剛才在問的是您這邊一直都還沒有說到，如果是對於雷射光學這部分，尤其是比較屬於後端，也就是在製造的部分，你的經費到底是多少？因為你們剛才沒有說他的經費是多少。"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們有時候匡列經費就是大的範圍，但是學界的教授要提出什麼樣的計畫，我們事先沒有辦法預期，所以並沒有辦法區分，譬如剛剛說有三個部分，哪一部分是多少錢，這個倒不見得會完全準確。"],["劉委員書彬：主委，所以你們目前沒有這三大類的研發經費嗎？"],["洪處長樂文：報告委員，前面那個李老師的計畫是在我們智慧製造政策專案底下，而右邊提到的這幾項是跟未來矽光子有關的研究。"],["劉委員書彬：對，這是未來嘛，所以現在沒有編嘛，對不對？是不是在114年沒有？"],["吳主任委員誠文：這是115年的。"],["洪處長樂文：我們在115年是有一個矽光子的專案……"],["劉委員書彬：對，我知道，你們今天業務報告已經寫了。"],["洪處長樂文：但是目前也已經有很多學者主動提出相關研究。"],["劉委員書彬：對，所以這個地方就是非常地……事實上，在這個政策的研發當中，其實可以看得出來這個連續性是有一個斷點的，因為你們在114年當中並沒有針對這個部分當作一個重點政策目標去提出並編列預算，我們為什麼會這樣說呢？我們看到這邊，臺灣雷射技術領域發展在光學系統的部分你可以看到，如果是一個完整的雷射光學系統裡面有這五大部分，可是臺灣的研究重點仍舊是在驅動晶片跟控制系統晶片設計上面，這些是強項，但是在光學系統整合、光學元件設計、雷射光源開發的部分，前面兩項是中等，可是雷射光源的部分──也就是你們今天在強調編到115年的部分，它是較少、較弱的項目。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，委員講的沒有錯，就是因為這樣我們才要發展，因為矽光子是現在我們AI新十大建設裡面很重要的項目，這個項目的重要性是因為，我們資料中心的設備將來要從銅線資料傳輸的設備進到光纖資料傳輸的設備在這個過程當中，矽光子……"],["劉委員書彬：所以它是屬於後端的傳輸部分嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，就是我們的晶片在做運算的部分已經很強了，但是我們有很大量的訓練資料，還有應用的時候叫做inference，這個資料量都很大，我們要跨設備之間傳輸就變成以後要用光纖，光纖還要再進到機櫃裡面，不是只有在外面的纜線而已，到機櫃裡面要跟矽的半導體結合，我們的矽半導體很強，所以現在全世界都希望跟臺灣來合作做這個矽光子，從矽的晶片到光的晶片能夠整合在同樣的封裝以及光的模組，因為我們要發展這樣的技術，所以就加強投入。"],["劉委員書彬：所以主委你現在所表示的意思是說，你們這樣的歷程是在114年沒有編，只是一個個別型的研究計畫……"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，自由型的研究我們都會支持。"],["劉委員書彬：對，但是突然在115年，就是在114年出現這個成果或是說怎麼樣的考量，今年你們就直接在編列115年預算時把它放進去了，是這樣的意思嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，就是在鼓勵要做光學研究、光系統的、光通訊的等等，然後就能夠整合到矽光子。"],["劉委員書彬：可是你可以看到，現在雷射光源開發這部分真的是較少的，我請問一下，其他國家在這個領域上面的研究的領先程度是怎麼樣？"],["吳主任委員誠文：其他也有一些先進國家，我們也希望他們跟臺灣來合作，不管是美國、日本、歐洲都有……"],["劉委員書彬：是它跟我們合作，還是說他們已經領先，我們去學習等等之類的？"],["吳主任委員誠文：在科學研究上面，臺灣其實並沒有落後，只是說在產業的應用上面我們比較少，我們希望從科學研究加強這種系統層級的整合，這是需要花時間的。"],["劉委員書彬：您預計大概多久會有一些成果出現？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們編了大概4年，未來這4年。"],["劉委員書彬：這個經費是多少？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們原來零零星星跟矽光子有關的計畫大概是一年3億左右……"],["劉委員書彬：3億嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：零零星星有關矽光子一年大概3億左右……"],["劉委員書彬：3億？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，但是明年115年我們增加了5億，讓它提高到8億，因為我們要加強這方面的研究能量。"],["劉委員書彬：好，主委，你這樣講可能有點前後矛盾，還是說現在真的是在初期階段而已，因為才3億而已……"],["吳主任委員誠文：它不只……"],["劉委員書彬：你們在今天的報告當中呈現的，雷射精密光學跟半導體的製程也許是新的領域，但是看起來在應用方面，就像你剛才說的應用，距離真的還差很遠。"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，因為委員談的就是雷射在製程、設備上的應用，那是智慧製造，但是我講的是整個矽光子，我剛剛講的是整個矽光子在明年的預算會增加5億，大概total會到8億。"],["劉委員書彬：所以你覺得慢慢的在四年之後繼續再編，應該是有機會在多少年的時程可以達到效果？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在編的預算，明年增加5億，但是卓院長有承諾如果我們進展順利的話，因為這個對臺灣產業界非常重要，可以逐年再增加，我們希望可以這樣。"],["劉委員書彬：好，到時候會造成什麼樣的效果，我想這是非常重要的，因為中研院的物理光學研究領域事實上才是扮演主力，我們認為你們的政策轉折其實有點快，就是113年都沒編，114年有一個亮點，後來看到這個趨勢就……有關這個部分，我希望國科院這邊就政策轉折的部分做一個報告給本席，好嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員。"],["劉委員書彬：好，就希望說這是一個政策性的……這對我們臺灣都是好的事情。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝。"],["劉委員書彬：好，謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝書彬召委質詢，主委請回座。","接下來請葉元之委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":58,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-22-4","speakers":["陳秀寳","林沛祥","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","葉元之","羅廷瑋","范雲","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","張雅琳","葛如鈞","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","賴惠員","邱志偉","徐富癸","謝龍介"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148801_00001"}}}