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\"start\": 691.957, \"end\": 692.137, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 692.137, \"end\": 692.237, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 692.237, \"end\": 692.978, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 692.978, \"end\": 692.998, \"score\": 0.328}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,201 --> 00:00:06,962\n謝謝主席有請我們林部長請部長部長早安部長今天我們要講到的是台美關係那川普剛上任的時候其實有很多的國人對於川普政府跟台灣之間的關係會產生變化會不會漸行漸遠這件事情呢其實產生了很多的擔憂跟疑慮\n\n2\n00:00:29,506 --> 00:00:51,800\n可是我们可以从美方现在持续的坚定的支持我国有意义的参与国际的组织还有部长刚刚你有提到就是今年4月的时候其实美国首次在联合国安理会严正的批评就是中方误用联大第2758号的决议美国今年1月份到现在其实联邦参众两院也都提出了\n\n3\n00:00:57,663 --> 00:01:17,429\n將近60項跟台灣相關的法案跟這個有我的這個捷運所以說就像我們看到就中國持續操作法律戰跟這個歷史戰那要來藉由扭曲甚至這個二戰文件來主張台灣的這個主權我們看到就是美國在台協會AIT在今年9月很罕見的指出說\n\n4\n00:01:18,309 --> 00:01:31,594\n中國試圖扭曲開羅宣言跟波茲坦公告跟舊金山合約等等的歷史文件強調這些二戰的相關文件未決定台灣的最終政治地位然後這些也獲得美國國務院的背書我有看到一些學者指出說這一次美方就台灣地位的問題是由模糊轉向清晰我想請問部長因為部長之前也曾經做過一些回應\n\n5\n00:01:46,939 --> 00:02:08,987\n你那時候有提到就是說其實像開洛軒也有好波茲坦這個公告其實他其實就是一個新聞公告其實也不是條約就算是後來你很強硬的回應說像舊西山合約其實他只是聲明這個日本必須放棄台灣澎湖的這個所有的權利其實並沒有很明確的告知台灣的這個主權的這個歸屬所以這個台灣這個\n\n6\n00:02:15,550 --> 00:02:41,530\n政治地位未定論就是從這樣子論述來的我想請問部長就是說從過去我們看到說美國對台灣其實一直都是採很模糊的這個定位說可是到現在很明確了已經很明確覺得台灣就是一個未定位他的政治地位未定位我想問請教部長像美國這種態度的改變他最大的原因是什麼\n\n7\n00:02:42,250 --> 00:02:44,391\n是因為中國已經在改變現狀而且透過法律戰為他武力犯台鋪設基礎那從聯合國2758號決議為什麼這個美國國務院在去年就有四點很清楚的說明\n\n8\n00:03:03,017 --> 00:03:21,303\n就是然後包括各國的議會還有包括歐洲議會有陸續通過所謂2758號決議不涉及台灣因為這150個字裡面都沒有談到台灣那可是中共卻不斷的就是想要這個有一點就是做法律戰的操弄在\n\n9\n00:03:24,599 --> 00:03:49,420\n最近又因為所謂的三個八十年也就是1945年不管是二戰結束或是抗戰勝利還有包括所謂的關乎台灣成立聯合國這些組織等而中共發動了一波的法律戰在法理上企圖把台灣是中國的一部分尤其是中華人民共和國的一部分\n\n10\n00:03:51,021 --> 00:04:15,503\n這個變成在一個認知作戰的一部分所以這個時候我想理念相近的國家都必須要來澄清所以這個是為了捍衛現狀那麼因此呢中共企圖因為中華人民共和國是存在1949年嘛可是他怎麼去解釋1945年所謂的這一個三個八十年的歷史事件所以美國我想我們看到的是他們已經不止一次\n\n11\n00:04:16,584 --> 00:04:32,319\n那麼AIT也要國務委員去釐清對於所謂開羅宣言波茲坦公告到這一個舊青山合約這個不涉及中共講的台灣這個是中國的一部分或所謂的一中原則\n\n12\n00:04:33,180 --> 00:04:54,005\n但是站在台灣的角度來講當然台灣我們是一個民主的國家嘛我們有這個民選的政府我們有三次政黨輪替我們在國際上有辦法行使主權能力所以當然基於聯合國這個宣言或憲章的精神還有基於這個國民主權的原則我們當然沒有說什麼台灣地位未定的我們當然認為台灣實際上\n\n13\n00:04:56,005 --> 00:04:59,090\n就是我們台灣人民經過民主的實踐已經不斷地肯認那國際上也是認為台灣人民的一個這個不管是民主的一個意志或是\n\n14\n00:05:10,287 --> 00:05:36,628\n我們一些主權的行為是應該要有參加國際組織包括聯合國跟周邊組織的機會跟權力所以部長您對於這個AIT說這些文件為決定台灣的最終政治地位這部分其實您認為說其實台灣本來在國際上就有自己的所謂的政治地位其實我們就是一個主權獨立的國家所以您對於這個AIT的說法是有一些不同的想法嗎是這樣子的意思嗎\n\n15\n00:05:37,888 --> 00:05:46,351\n應該說對於這個歷史的一個歷史本身的說明這個是針對這三個文件以及當時我想美國並沒有針對後面也就是台灣民主化之後或現在國際對於台灣中華民國我們在國際上的一個國家的地位所以這個有些人當然只因為美國時代有一點是回應啦\n\n16\n00:06:05,018 --> 00:06:18,186\n中國對於歷史的扭曲而且是法律戰的一部分所以你可以看到不斷的記者去詢問的時候美方的回應還是都很一致的\n\n17\n00:06:19,822 --> 00:06:38,510\n這是在講歷史歷史為什麼重要因為它會變成中共的所謂一中原則從這裡跑出來而這個會鋪設它無力犯台的法理基礎所以全世界各國現在才意識到這個中共的法律戰它其實是一個所謂的連環套\n\n18\n00:06:39,890 --> 00:07:04,818\n其實他在20年前所謂的反分裂法的時候就啟動了所謂三戰法律戰輿論戰跟心理戰而這個就是我們現在講的包括認知作戰混合戰其中就是整套現在又加上數位科技還有中共在國際上的勢力越來越強所以他不斷地在一些共同聲明不斷地在去做事想要去\n\n19\n00:07:08,325 --> 00:07:31,523\n落實他所謂的一中原則那還有我們也發現就是說其實美國真的是近來常常在打這個台灣牌就像剛剛我們陳靜宇委員他有提到像這次川普他就有跟媒體透露就是說在這個月底他在南韓舉行的這個經濟會議期間他會跟習近平見面就會特別提到會討論到台灣的議題又把台灣這個跟媒體透露說我們會談到這個議題\n\n20\n00:07:37,387 --> 00:07:53,562\n那其實陳永康委員今天也講得很清楚就是說其實他是一個經濟會議經貿會議那可是他特別會強調說我會提到台灣的議題所以會不會是其實川普其實也很清楚在這個印太地區覺得台灣應該是一個關鍵\n\n21\n00:07:55,323 --> 00:07:59,328\n在美中這個競爭當中台灣絕對是一個關鍵所以他在談判經貿的這個期間頻頻把台灣給提出來所以這會不會是說台灣被迫被動媒體詢問他他是被動嗎他是被動對\n\n22\n00:08:16,067 --> 00:08:31,820\n是可是他也認為說會談到這個議題嘛是不是沒有他認為對方他認為他現在不想談這個問題他不想談那個問題可是在那個月底的時候他其實會跟習近平談到台灣的議題因為他是假設可能習近平如果有見面會想要談這個問題因為他是眼中的蘋果嘛\n\n23\n00:08:33,201 --> 00:08:50,427\n但是對於我想如果你詳細看那個川普總統在這個回應上面他說他並沒有想要在這個時候去談這個問題那我也特別是提出其實這也不是誰能夠去談的問題其實美國是有台灣關係法跟六項保證\n\n24\n00:08:51,991 --> 00:09:10,485\n如果你詳細去看那裡面的內容這不是任何總統他單方面可以去談的而且呢美國的國會也已經把台灣關係法跟六項保證已經透過共同決議現在甚至是立法的方式啊那所以這個是跨黨派我想在美國的這個對台政策是相當\n\n25\n00:09:12,646 --> 00:09:32,112\n一致的至於他們對中的政策這之間當然因為兩岸的關係會有一些互相影響不過我認為這是兩個不同的就是說對美國來講並不是我們冷戰時候可能會涉及到美中台那種三邊關係美中有美中的政策美台也有美台的政策\n\n26\n00:09:32,352 --> 00:09:51,557\n所以部長是認為說他其實是媒體詢問所以他就被動告知因為我後來看到那個媒體還提到就是說他們有提到那個區域安全的這個時候川普就強調就是說美國在印太地區的軍事主義他的實力主義阻嚇中國對台動武這是一個對中國的警告對因為那是因為澳大利亞總理他們因為有涉及到\n\n27\n00:09:52,116 --> 00:10:16,912\n就是QUADAUKUS就是說這一個潛艇的問題涉及到是不是如果中共適用在這是AUKUS美英澳三邊的可以說是一個比較戰略跟軍事上的合作\n\n28\n00:10:17,732 --> 00:10:43,130\n釋放會談嗎你講的是這個嗎跨的嗎他們在講跨的那個會談OK因為時間的關係後面那問題大概是問到這裡只是說只是說過去可能國人有很多的疑慮可能就是說可能川普上去之後呢對台灣可能是一個非常不利的一個走向可是現在看起來的話其實發展狀況目前我們還覺得說其實中美關係其實是\n\n29\n00:10:44,071 --> 00:10:58,230\n沒有想像中的這麼的不OK甚至我們還發現說最近美國常常會提到提到台灣那我也覺得說本身也認為說川普政府應該也意識到在這個印太地區如果要跟中國競爭其實台灣是一個關鍵\n\n30\n00:11:01,318 --> 00:11:16,564\n對因為想說中國企圖改變現狀在多方面那我想台灣對美國來講是很好的一個我們理念相近以外我們有共同的利益包括在這個安全上另外就是在經濟上所以我想更大的就是說一個角度來看我們台美關係其實是其實川普2.0我們在一年\n\n31\n00:11:26,048 --> 00:11:32,998\n接近一年以來我們應該說這政策的延續性是很清楚的OK好以上謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2201\t6962\t謝謝主席有請我們林部長請部長部長早安部長今天我們要講到的是台美關係那川普剛上任的時候其實有很多的國人對於川普政府跟台灣之間的關係會產生變化會不會漸行漸遠這件事情呢其實產生了很多的擔憂跟疑慮\n29506\t51800\t可是我们可以从美方现在持续的坚定的支持我国有意义的参与国际的组织还有部长刚刚你有提到就是今年4月的时候其实美国首次在联合国安理会严正的批评就是中方误用联大第2758号的决议美国今年1月份到现在其实联邦参众两院也都提出了\n57663\t77429\t將近60項跟台灣相關的法案跟這個有我的這個捷運所以說就像我們看到就中國持續操作法律戰跟這個歷史戰那要來藉由扭曲甚至這個二戰文件來主張台灣的這個主權我們看到就是美國在台協會AIT在今年9月很罕見的指出說\n78309\t91594\t中國試圖扭曲開羅宣言跟波茲坦公告跟舊金山合約等等的歷史文件強調這些二戰的相關文件未決定台灣的最終政治地位然後這些也獲得美國國務院的背書我有看到一些學者指出說這一次美方就台灣地位的問題是由模糊轉向清晰我想請問部長 因為部長之前也曾經做過一些回應\n106939\t128987\t你那時候有提到就是說其實像開洛軒也有好波茲坦這個公告其實他其實就是一個新聞公告其實也不是條約就算是後來你很強硬的回應說像舊西山合約其實他只是聲明這個日本必須放棄台灣澎湖的這個所有的權利其實並沒有很明確的告知台灣的這個主權的這個歸屬所以這個台灣這個\n135550\t161530\t政治地位未定論就是從這樣子論述來的我想請問部長就是說從過去我們看到說美國對台灣其實一直都是採很模糊的這個定位說可是到現在很明確了已經很明確覺得台灣就是一個未定位他的政治地位未定位我想問請教部長像美國這種態度的改變他最大的原因是什麼\n162250\t164391\t是因為中國已經在改變現狀而且透過法律戰為他武力犯台鋪設基礎那從聯合國2758號決議為什麼這個美國國務院在去年就有四點很清楚的說明\n183017\t201303\t就是然後包括各國的議會還有包括歐洲議會有陸續通過所謂2758號決議不涉及台灣因為這150個字裡面都沒有談到台灣那可是中共卻不斷的就是想要這個有一點就是做法律戰的操弄在\n204599\t229420\t最近又因為所謂的三個八十年也就是1945年不管是二戰結束或是抗戰勝利還有包括所謂的關乎台灣成立聯合國這些組織等而中共發動了一波的法律戰在法理上企圖把台灣是中國的一部分尤其是中華人民共和國的一部分\n231021\t255503\t這個變成在一個認知作戰的一部分所以這個時候我想理念相近的國家都必須要來澄清所以這個是為了捍衛現狀那麼因此呢中共企圖因為中華人民共和國是存在1949年嘛可是他怎麼去解釋1945年所謂的這一個三個八十年的歷史事件所以美國我想我們看到的是他們已經不止一次\n256584\t272319\t那麼AIT也要國務委員去釐清對於所謂開羅宣言 波茲坦公告到這一個舊青山合約這個不涉及中共講的台灣這個是中國的一部分或所謂的一中原則\n273180\t294005\t但是站在台灣的角度來講當然台灣我們是一個民主的國家嘛我們有這個民選的政府我們有三次政黨輪替我們在國際上有辦法行使主權能力所以當然基於聯合國這個宣言或憲章的精神還有基於這個國民主權的原則我們當然沒有說什麼台灣地位未定的我們當然認為台灣實際上\n296005\t299090\t就是我們台灣人民經過民主的實踐已經不斷地肯認那國際上也是認為台灣人民的一個這個不管是民主的一個意志或是\n310287\t336628\t我們一些主權的行為是應該要有參加國際組織包括聯合國跟周邊組織的機會跟權力所以部長您對於這個AIT說這些文件為決定台灣的最終政治地位這部分其實您認為說其實台灣本來在國際上就有自己的所謂的政治地位其實我們就是一個主權獨立的國家所以您對於這個AIT的說法是有一些不同的想法嗎是這樣子的意思嗎\n337888\t346351\t應該說對於這個歷史的一個歷史本身的說明這個是針對這三個文件以及當時我想美國並沒有針對後面也就是台灣民主化之後或現在國際對於台灣中華民國我們在國際上的一個國家的地位所以這個有些人當然只因為美國時代有一點是回應啦\n365018\t378186\t中國對於歷史的扭曲而且是法律戰的一部分所以你可以看到不斷的記者去詢問的時候美方的回應還是都很一致的\n379822\t398510\t這是在講歷史 歷史為什麼重要因為它會變成中共的所謂一中原則 從這裡跑出來而這個會鋪設它無力犯台的法理基礎所以全世界各國現在才意識到這個中共的法律戰它其實是一個所謂的連環套\n399890\t424818\t其實他在20年前所謂的反分裂法的時候就啟動了所謂三戰法律戰 輿論戰跟心理戰而這個就是我們現在講的包括認知作戰 混合戰其中就是整套 現在又加上數位科技還有中共在國際上的勢力越來越強所以他不斷地在一些共同聲明不斷地在去做事 想要去\n428325\t451523\t落實他所謂的一中原則那還有我們也發現就是說其實美國真的是近來常常在打這個台灣牌就像剛剛我們陳靜宇委員他有提到像這次川普他就有跟媒體透露就是說在這個月底他在南韓舉行的這個經濟會議期間他會跟習近平見面就會特別提到會討論到台灣的議題又把台灣這個跟媒體透露說我們會談到這個議題\n457387\t473562\t那其實陳永康委員今天也講得很清楚就是說其實他是一個經濟會議經貿會議那可是他特別會強調說我會提到台灣的議題所以會不會是其實川普其實也很清楚在這個印太地區覺得台灣應該是一個關鍵\n475323\t479328\t在美中這個競爭當中台灣絕對是一個關鍵所以他在談判經貿的這個期間頻頻把台灣給提出來所以這會不會是說台灣被迫被動媒體詢問他他是被動嗎他是被動對\n496067\t511820\t是 可是他也認為說會談到這個議題嘛是不是沒有 他認為對方他認為他現在不想談這個問題他不想談那個問題可是在那個月底的時候他其實會跟習近平談到台灣的議題因為他是假設可能習近平如果有見面會想要談這個問題因為他是眼中的蘋果嘛\n513201\t530427\t但是對於我想如果你詳細看那個川普總統在這個回應上面他說他並沒有想要在這個時候去談這個問題那我也特別是提出其實這也不是誰能夠去談的問題其實美國是有台灣關係法跟六項保證\n531991\t550485\t如果你詳細去看那裡面的內容這不是任何總統他單方面可以去談的而且呢美國的國會也已經把台灣關係法跟六項保證已經透過共同決議現在甚至是立法的方式啊那所以這個是跨黨派我想在美國的這個對台政策是相當\n552646\t572112\t一致的至於他們對中的政策這之間當然因為兩岸的關係會有一些互相影響不過我認為這是兩個不同的就是說對美國來講並不是我們冷戰時候可能會涉及到美中台那種三邊關係美中有美中的政策美台也有美台的政策\n572352\t591557\t所以部長是認為說他其實是媒體詢問所以他就被動告知因為我後來看到那個媒體還提到就是說他們有提到那個區域安全的這個時候川普就強調就是說美國在印太地區的軍事主義他的實力主義阻嚇中國對台動武這是一個對中國的警告對 因為那是因為澳大利亞總理他們因為有涉及到\n592116\t616912\t就是QUAD AUKUS就是說這一個潛艇的問題涉及到是不是如果中共適用在這是AUKUS美英澳三邊的可以說是一個比較戰略跟軍事上的合作\n617732\t643130\t釋放會談嗎你講的是這個嗎跨的嗎他們在講跨的那個會談OK因為時間的關係後面那問題大概是問到這裡只是說只是說過去可能國人有很多的疑慮可能就是說可能川普上去之後呢對台灣可能是一個非常不利的一個走向可是現在看起來的話其實發展狀況目前我們還覺得說其實中美關係其實是\n644071\t658230\t沒有想像中的這麼的不OK甚至我們還發現說最近美國常常會提到提到台灣那我也覺得說本身也認為說川普政府應該也意識到在這個印太地區如果要跟中國競爭其實台灣是一個關鍵\n661318\t676564\t對 因為想說中國企圖改變現狀在多方面那我想台灣對美國來講是很好的一個我們理念相近以外我們有共同的利益包括在這個安全上另外就是在經濟上所以我想更大的就是說一個角度來看我們台美關係其實是其實川普2.0我們在一年\n686048\t692998\t接近一年以來我們應該說這政策的延續性是很清楚的OK 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請我們林部長請部長部長早安部長今天我們要講到的是台美關係那川普剛上任的時候其實有很多的國人對於川普政府跟台灣之間的關係會產生變化會不會漸行漸遠這件事情呢其實產生了很多的擔憂跟疑慮\n可是我们可以从美方现在持续的坚定的支持我国有意义的参与国际的组织还有部长刚刚你有提到就是今年4月的时候其实美国首次在联合国安理会严正的批评就是中方误用联大第2758号的决议美国今年1月份到现在其实联邦参众两院也都提出了\n將近60項跟台灣相關的法案跟這個有我的這個捷運所以說就像我們看到就中國持續操作法律戰跟這個歷史戰那要來藉由扭曲甚至這個二戰文件來主張台灣的這個主權我們看到就是美國在台協會AIT在今年9月很罕見的指出說\n中國試圖扭曲開羅宣言跟波茲坦公告跟舊金山合約等等的歷史文件強調這些二戰的相關文件未決定台灣的最終政治地位然後這些也獲得美國國務院的背書我有看到一些學者指出說這一次美方就台灣地位的問題是由模糊轉向清晰我想請問部長 因為部長之前也曾經做過一些回應\n你那時候有提到就是說其實像開洛軒也有好波茲坦這個公告其實他其實就是一個新聞公告其實也不是條約就算是後來你很強硬的回應說像舊西山合約其實他只是聲明這個日本必須放棄台灣澎湖的這個所有的權利其實並沒有很明確的告知台灣的這個主權的這個歸屬所以這個台灣這個\n政治地位未定論就是從這樣子論述來的我想請問部長就是說從過去我們看到說美國對台灣其實一直都是採很模糊的這個定位說可是到現在很明確了已經很明確覺得台灣就是一個未定位他的政治地位未定位我想問請教部長像美國這種態度的改變他最大的原因是什麼\n是因為中國已經在改變現狀而且透過法律戰為他武力犯台鋪設基礎那從聯合國2758號決議為什麼這個美國國務院在去年就有四點很清楚的說明\n就是然後包括各國的議會還有包括歐洲議會有陸續通過所謂2758號決議不涉及台灣因為這150個字裡面都沒有談到台灣那可是中共卻不斷的就是想要這個有一點就是做法律戰的操弄在\n最近又因為所謂的三個八十年也就是1945年不管是二戰結束或是抗戰勝利還有包括所謂的關乎台灣成立聯合國這些組織等而中共發動了一波的法律戰在法理上企圖把台灣是中國的一部分尤其是中華人民共和國的一部分\n這個變成在一個認知作戰的一部分所以這個時候我想理念相近的國家都必須要來澄清所以這個是為了捍衛現狀那麼因此呢中共企圖因為中華人民共和國是存在1949年嘛可是他怎麼去解釋1945年所謂的這一個三個八十年的歷史事件所以美國我想我們看到的是他們已經不止一次\n那麼AIT也要國務委員去釐清對於所謂開羅宣言 波茲坦公告到這一個舊青山合約這個不涉及中共講的台灣這個是中國的一部分或所謂的一中原則\n但是站在台灣的角度來講當然台灣我們是一個民主的國家嘛我們有這個民選的政府我們有三次政黨輪替我們在國際上有辦法行使主權能力所以當然基於聯合國這個宣言或憲章的精神還有基於這個國民主權的原則我們當然沒有說什麼台灣地位未定的我們當然認為台灣實際上\n就是我們台灣人民經過民主的實踐已經不斷地肯認那國際上也是認為台灣人民的一個這個不管是民主的一個意志或是\n我們一些主權的行為是應該要有參加國際組織包括聯合國跟周邊組織的機會跟權力所以部長您對於這個AIT說這些文件為決定台灣的最終政治地位這部分其實您認為說其實台灣本來在國際上就有自己的所謂的政治地位其實我們就是一個主權獨立的國家所以您對於這個AIT的說法是有一些不同的想法嗎是這樣子的意思嗎\n應該說對於這個歷史的一個歷史本身的說明這個是針對這三個文件以及當時我想美國並沒有針對後面也就是台灣民主化之後或現在國際對於台灣中華民國我們在國際上的一個國家的地位所以這個有些人當然只因為美國時代有一點是回應啦\n中國對於歷史的扭曲而且是法律戰的一部分所以你可以看到不斷的記者去詢問的時候美方的回應還是都很一致的\n這是在講歷史 歷史為什麼重要因為它會變成中共的所謂一中原則 從這裡跑出來而這個會鋪設它無力犯台的法理基礎所以全世界各國現在才意識到這個中共的法律戰它其實是一個所謂的連環套\n其實他在20年前所謂的反分裂法的時候就啟動了所謂三戰法律戰 輿論戰跟心理戰而這個就是我們現在講的包括認知作戰 混合戰其中就是整套 現在又加上數位科技還有中共在國際上的勢力越來越強所以他不斷地在一些共同聲明不斷地在去做事 想要去\n落實他所謂的一中原則那還有我們也發現就是說其實美國真的是近來常常在打這個台灣牌就像剛剛我們陳靜宇委員他有提到像這次川普他就有跟媒體透露就是說在這個月底他在南韓舉行的這個經濟會議期間他會跟習近平見面就會特別提到會討論到台灣的議題又把台灣這個跟媒體透露說我們會談到這個議題\n那其實陳永康委員今天也講得很清楚就是說其實他是一個經濟會議經貿會議那可是他特別會強調說我會提到台灣的議題所以會不會是其實川普其實也很清楚在這個印太地區覺得台灣應該是一個關鍵\n在美中這個競爭當中台灣絕對是一個關鍵所以他在談判經貿的這個期間頻頻把台灣給提出來所以這會不會是說台灣被迫被動媒體詢問他他是被動嗎他是被動對\n是 可是他也認為說會談到這個議題嘛是不是沒有 他認為對方他認為他現在不想談這個問題他不想談那個問題可是在那個月底的時候他其實會跟習近平談到台灣的議題因為他是假設可能習近平如果有見面會想要談這個問題因為他是眼中的蘋果嘛\n但是對於我想如果你詳細看那個川普總統在這個回應上面他說他並沒有想要在這個時候去談這個問題那我也特別是提出其實這也不是誰能夠去談的問題其實美國是有台灣關係法跟六項保證\n如果你詳細去看那裡面的內容這不是任何總統他單方面可以去談的而且呢美國的國會也已經把台灣關係法跟六項保證已經透過共同決議現在甚至是立法的方式啊那所以這個是跨黨派我想在美國的這個對台政策是相當\n一致的至於他們對中的政策這之間當然因為兩岸的關係會有一些互相影響不過我認為這是兩個不同的就是說對美國來講並不是我們冷戰時候可能會涉及到美中台那種三邊關係美中有美中的政策美台也有美台的政策\n所以部長是認為說他其實是媒體詢問所以他就被動告知因為我後來看到那個媒體還提到就是說他們有提到那個區域安全的這個時候川普就強調就是說美國在印太地區的軍事主義他的實力主義阻嚇中國對台動武這是一個對中國的警告對 因為那是因為澳大利亞總理他們因為有涉及到\n就是QUAD AUKUS就是說這一個潛艇的問題涉及到是不是如果中共適用在這是AUKUS美英澳三邊的可以說是一個比較戰略跟軍事上的合作\n釋放會談嗎你講的是這個嗎跨的嗎他們在講跨的那個會談OK因為時間的關係後面那問題大概是問到這裡只是說只是說過去可能國人有很多的疑慮可能就是說可能川普上去之後呢對台灣可能是一個非常不利的一個走向可是現在看起來的話其實發展狀況目前我們還覺得說其實中美關係其實是\n沒有想像中的這麼的不OK甚至我們還發現說最近美國常常會提到提到台灣那我也覺得說本身也認為說川普政府應該也意識到在這個印太地區如果要跟中國競爭其實台灣是一個關鍵\n對 因為想說中國企圖改變現狀在多方面那我想台灣對美國來講是很好的一個我們理念相近以外我們有共同的利益包括在這個安全上另外就是在經濟上所以我想更大的就是說一個角度來看我們台美關係其實是其實川普2.0我們在一年\n接近一年以來我們應該說這政策的延續性是很清楚的OK 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.201 --> 00:06.962\n謝謝主席有請我們林部長請部長部長早安部長今天我們要講到的是台美關係那川普剛上任的時候其實有很多的國人對於川普政府跟台灣之間的關係會產生變化會不會漸行漸遠這件事情呢其實產生了很多的擔憂跟疑慮\n\n00:29.506 --> 00:51.800\n可是我们可以从美方现在持续的坚定的支持我国有意义的参与国际的组织还有部长刚刚你有提到就是今年4月的时候其实美国首次在联合国安理会严正的批评就是中方误用联大第2758号的决议美国今年1月份到现在其实联邦参众两院也都提出了\n\n00:57.663 --> 01:17.429\n將近60項跟台灣相關的法案跟這個有我的這個捷運所以說就像我們看到就中國持續操作法律戰跟這個歷史戰那要來藉由扭曲甚至這個二戰文件來主張台灣的這個主權我們看到就是美國在台協會AIT在今年9月很罕見的指出說\n\n01:18.309 --> 01:31.594\n中國試圖扭曲開羅宣言跟波茲坦公告跟舊金山合約等等的歷史文件強調這些二戰的相關文件未決定台灣的最終政治地位然後這些也獲得美國國務院的背書我有看到一些學者指出說這一次美方就台灣地位的問題是由模糊轉向清晰我想請問部長因為部長之前也曾經做過一些回應\n\n01:46.939 --> 02:08.987\n你那時候有提到就是說其實像開洛軒也有好波茲坦這個公告其實他其實就是一個新聞公告其實也不是條約就算是後來你很強硬的回應說像舊西山合約其實他只是聲明這個日本必須放棄台灣澎湖的這個所有的權利其實並沒有很明確的告知台灣的這個主權的這個歸屬所以這個台灣這個\n\n02:15.550 --> 02:41.530\n政治地位未定論就是從這樣子論述來的我想請問部長就是說從過去我們看到說美國對台灣其實一直都是採很模糊的這個定位說可是到現在很明確了已經很明確覺得台灣就是一個未定位他的政治地位未定位我想問請教部長像美國這種態度的改變他最大的原因是什麼\n\n02:42.250 --> 02:44.391\n是因為中國已經在改變現狀而且透過法律戰為他武力犯台鋪設基礎那從聯合國2758號決議為什麼這個美國國務院在去年就有四點很清楚的說明\n\n03:03.017 --> 03:21.303\n就是然後包括各國的議會還有包括歐洲議會有陸續通過所謂2758號決議不涉及台灣因為這150個字裡面都沒有談到台灣那可是中共卻不斷的就是想要這個有一點就是做法律戰的操弄在\n\n03:24.599 --> 03:49.420\n最近又因為所謂的三個八十年也就是1945年不管是二戰結束或是抗戰勝利還有包括所謂的關乎台灣成立聯合國這些組織等而中共發動了一波的法律戰在法理上企圖把台灣是中國的一部分尤其是中華人民共和國的一部分\n\n03:51.021 --> 04:15.503\n這個變成在一個認知作戰的一部分所以這個時候我想理念相近的國家都必須要來澄清所以這個是為了捍衛現狀那麼因此呢中共企圖因為中華人民共和國是存在1949年嘛可是他怎麼去解釋1945年所謂的這一個三個八十年的歷史事件所以美國我想我們看到的是他們已經不止一次\n\n04:16.584 --> 04:32.319\n那麼AIT也要國務委員去釐清對於所謂開羅宣言波茲坦公告到這一個舊青山合約這個不涉及中共講的台灣這個是中國的一部分或所謂的一中原則\n\n04:33.180 --> 04:54.005\n但是站在台灣的角度來講當然台灣我們是一個民主的國家嘛我們有這個民選的政府我們有三次政黨輪替我們在國際上有辦法行使主權能力所以當然基於聯合國這個宣言或憲章的精神還有基於這個國民主權的原則我們當然沒有說什麼台灣地位未定的我們當然認為台灣實際上\n\n04:56.005 --> 04:59.090\n就是我們台灣人民經過民主的實踐已經不斷地肯認那國際上也是認為台灣人民的一個這個不管是民主的一個意志或是\n\n05:10.287 --> 05:36.628\n我們一些主權的行為是應該要有參加國際組織包括聯合國跟周邊組織的機會跟權力所以部長您對於這個AIT說這些文件為決定台灣的最終政治地位這部分其實您認為說其實台灣本來在國際上就有自己的所謂的政治地位其實我們就是一個主權獨立的國家所以您對於這個AIT的說法是有一些不同的想法嗎是這樣子的意思嗎\n\n05:37.888 --> 05:46.351\n應該說對於這個歷史的一個歷史本身的說明這個是針對這三個文件以及當時我想美國並沒有針對後面也就是台灣民主化之後或現在國際對於台灣中華民國我們在國際上的一個國家的地位所以這個有些人當然只因為美國時代有一點是回應啦\n\n06:05.018 --> 06:18.186\n中國對於歷史的扭曲而且是法律戰的一部分所以你可以看到不斷的記者去詢問的時候美方的回應還是都很一致的\n\n06:19.822 --> 06:38.510\n這是在講歷史歷史為什麼重要因為它會變成中共的所謂一中原則從這裡跑出來而這個會鋪設它無力犯台的法理基礎所以全世界各國現在才意識到這個中共的法律戰它其實是一個所謂的連環套\n\n06:39.890 --> 07:04.818\n其實他在20年前所謂的反分裂法的時候就啟動了所謂三戰法律戰輿論戰跟心理戰而這個就是我們現在講的包括認知作戰混合戰其中就是整套現在又加上數位科技還有中共在國際上的勢力越來越強所以他不斷地在一些共同聲明不斷地在去做事想要去\n\n07:08.325 --> 07:31.523\n落實他所謂的一中原則那還有我們也發現就是說其實美國真的是近來常常在打這個台灣牌就像剛剛我們陳靜宇委員他有提到像這次川普他就有跟媒體透露就是說在這個月底他在南韓舉行的這個經濟會議期間他會跟習近平見面就會特別提到會討論到台灣的議題又把台灣這個跟媒體透露說我們會談到這個議題\n\n07:37.387 --> 07:53.562\n那其實陳永康委員今天也講得很清楚就是說其實他是一個經濟會議經貿會議那可是他特別會強調說我會提到台灣的議題所以會不會是其實川普其實也很清楚在這個印太地區覺得台灣應該是一個關鍵\n\n07:55.323 --> 07:59.328\n在美中這個競爭當中台灣絕對是一個關鍵所以他在談判經貿的這個期間頻頻把台灣給提出來所以這會不會是說台灣被迫被動媒體詢問他他是被動嗎他是被動對\n\n08:16.067 --> 08:31.820\n是可是他也認為說會談到這個議題嘛是不是沒有他認為對方他認為他現在不想談這個問題他不想談那個問題可是在那個月底的時候他其實會跟習近平談到台灣的議題因為他是假設可能習近平如果有見面會想要談這個問題因為他是眼中的蘋果嘛\n\n08:33.201 --> 08:50.427\n但是對於我想如果你詳細看那個川普總統在這個回應上面他說他並沒有想要在這個時候去談這個問題那我也特別是提出其實這也不是誰能夠去談的問題其實美國是有台灣關係法跟六項保證\n\n08:51.991 --> 09:10.485\n如果你詳細去看那裡面的內容這不是任何總統他單方面可以去談的而且呢美國的國會也已經把台灣關係法跟六項保證已經透過共同決議現在甚至是立法的方式啊那所以這個是跨黨派我想在美國的這個對台政策是相當\n\n09:12.646 --> 09:32.112\n一致的至於他們對中的政策這之間當然因為兩岸的關係會有一些互相影響不過我認為這是兩個不同的就是說對美國來講並不是我們冷戰時候可能會涉及到美中台那種三邊關係美中有美中的政策美台也有美台的政策\n\n09:32.352 --> 09:51.557\n所以部長是認為說他其實是媒體詢問所以他就被動告知因為我後來看到那個媒體還提到就是說他們有提到那個區域安全的這個時候川普就強調就是說美國在印太地區的軍事主義他的實力主義阻嚇中國對台動武這是一個對中國的警告對因為那是因為澳大利亞總理他們因為有涉及到\n\n09:52.116 --> 10:16.912\n就是QUADAUKUS就是說這一個潛艇的問題涉及到是不是如果中共適用在這是AUKUS美英澳三邊的可以說是一個比較戰略跟軍事上的合作\n\n10:17.732 --> 10:43.130\n釋放會談嗎你講的是這個嗎跨的嗎他們在講跨的那個會談OK因為時間的關係後面那問題大概是問到這裡只是說只是說過去可能國人有很多的疑慮可能就是說可能川普上去之後呢對台灣可能是一個非常不利的一個走向可是現在看起來的話其實發展狀況目前我們還覺得說其實中美關係其實是\n\n10:44.071 --> 10:58.230\n沒有想像中的這麼的不OK甚至我們還發現說最近美國常常會提到提到台灣那我也覺得說本身也認為說川普政府應該也意識到在這個印太地區如果要跟中國競爭其實台灣是一個關鍵\n\n11:01.318 --> 11:16.564\n對因為想說中國企圖改變現狀在多方面那我想台灣對美國來講是很好的一個我們理念相近以外我們有共同的利益包括在這個安全上另外就是在經濟上所以我想更大的就是說一個角度來看我們台美關係其實是其實川普2.0我們在一年\n\n11:26.048 --> 11:32.998\n接近一年以來我們應該說這政策的延續性是很清楚的OK好以上謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.201,"end":6.962,"text":"謝謝主席有請我們林部長請部長部長早安部長今天我們要講到的是台美關係那川普剛上任的時候其實有很多的國人對於川普政府跟台灣之間的關係會產生變化會不會漸行漸遠這件事情呢其實產生了很多的擔憂跟疑慮"},{"start":29.506,"end":51.8,"text":"可是我们可以从美方现在持续的坚定的支持我国有意义的参与国际的组织还有部长刚刚你有提到就是今年4月的时候其实美国首次在联合国安理会严正的批评就是中方误用联大第2758号的决议美国今年1月份到现在其实联邦参众两院也都提出了"},{"start":57.663,"end":77.429,"text":"將近60項跟台灣相關的法案跟這個有我的這個捷運所以說就像我們看到就中國持續操作法律戰跟這個歷史戰那要來藉由扭曲甚至這個二戰文件來主張台灣的這個主權我們看到就是美國在台協會AIT在今年9月很罕見的指出說"},{"start":78.309,"end":91.594,"text":"中國試圖扭曲開羅宣言跟波茲坦公告跟舊金山合約等等的歷史文件強調這些二戰的相關文件未決定台灣的最終政治地位然後這些也獲得美國國務院的背書我有看到一些學者指出說這一次美方就台灣地位的問題是由模糊轉向清晰我想請問部長 因為部長之前也曾經做過一些回應"},{"start":106.939,"end":128.987,"text":"你那時候有提到就是說其實像開洛軒也有好波茲坦這個公告其實他其實就是一個新聞公告其實也不是條約就算是後來你很強硬的回應說像舊西山合約其實他只是聲明這個日本必須放棄台灣澎湖的這個所有的權利其實並沒有很明確的告知台灣的這個主權的這個歸屬所以這個台灣這個"},{"start":135.55,"end":161.53,"text":"政治地位未定論就是從這樣子論述來的我想請問部長就是說從過去我們看到說美國對台灣其實一直都是採很模糊的這個定位說可是到現在很明確了已經很明確覺得台灣就是一個未定位他的政治地位未定位我想問請教部長像美國這種態度的改變他最大的原因是什麼"},{"start":162.25,"end":164.391,"text":"是因為中國已經在改變現狀而且透過法律戰為他武力犯台鋪設基礎那從聯合國2758號決議為什麼這個美國國務院在去年就有四點很清楚的說明"},{"start":183.017,"end":201.303,"text":"就是然後包括各國的議會還有包括歐洲議會有陸續通過所謂2758號決議不涉及台灣因為這150個字裡面都沒有談到台灣那可是中共卻不斷的就是想要這個有一點就是做法律戰的操弄在"},{"start":204.599,"end":229.42,"text":"最近又因為所謂的三個八十年也就是1945年不管是二戰結束或是抗戰勝利還有包括所謂的關乎台灣成立聯合國這些組織等而中共發動了一波的法律戰在法理上企圖把台灣是中國的一部分尤其是中華人民共和國的一部分"},{"start":231.021,"end":255.503,"text":"這個變成在一個認知作戰的一部分所以這個時候我想理念相近的國家都必須要來澄清所以這個是為了捍衛現狀那麼因此呢中共企圖因為中華人民共和國是存在1949年嘛可是他怎麼去解釋1945年所謂的這一個三個八十年的歷史事件所以美國我想我們看到的是他們已經不止一次"},{"start":256.584,"end":272.319,"text":"那麼AIT也要國務委員去釐清對於所謂開羅宣言 波茲坦公告到這一個舊青山合約這個不涉及中共講的台灣這個是中國的一部分或所謂的一中原則"},{"start":273.18,"end":294.005,"text":"但是站在台灣的角度來講當然台灣我們是一個民主的國家嘛我們有這個民選的政府我們有三次政黨輪替我們在國際上有辦法行使主權能力所以當然基於聯合國這個宣言或憲章的精神還有基於這個國民主權的原則我們當然沒有說什麼台灣地位未定的我們當然認為台灣實際上"},{"start":296.005,"end":299.09,"text":"就是我們台灣人民經過民主的實踐已經不斷地肯認那國際上也是認為台灣人民的一個這個不管是民主的一個意志或是"},{"start":310.287,"end":336.628,"text":"我們一些主權的行為是應該要有參加國際組織包括聯合國跟周邊組織的機會跟權力所以部長您對於這個AIT說這些文件為決定台灣的最終政治地位這部分其實您認為說其實台灣本來在國際上就有自己的所謂的政治地位其實我們就是一個主權獨立的國家所以您對於這個AIT的說法是有一些不同的想法嗎是這樣子的意思嗎"},{"start":337.888,"end":346.351,"text":"應該說對於這個歷史的一個歷史本身的說明這個是針對這三個文件以及當時我想美國並沒有針對後面也就是台灣民主化之後或現在國際對於台灣中華民國我們在國際上的一個國家的地位所以這個有些人當然只因為美國時代有一點是回應啦"},{"start":365.018,"end":378.186,"text":"中國對於歷史的扭曲而且是法律戰的一部分所以你可以看到不斷的記者去詢問的時候美方的回應還是都很一致的"},{"start":379.822,"end":398.51,"text":"這是在講歷史 歷史為什麼重要因為它會變成中共的所謂一中原則 從這裡跑出來而這個會鋪設它無力犯台的法理基礎所以全世界各國現在才意識到這個中共的法律戰它其實是一個所謂的連環套"},{"start":399.89,"end":424.818,"text":"其實他在20年前所謂的反分裂法的時候就啟動了所謂三戰法律戰 輿論戰跟心理戰而這個就是我們現在講的包括認知作戰 混合戰其中就是整套 現在又加上數位科技還有中共在國際上的勢力越來越強所以他不斷地在一些共同聲明不斷地在去做事 想要去"},{"start":428.325,"end":451.523,"text":"落實他所謂的一中原則那還有我們也發現就是說其實美國真的是近來常常在打這個台灣牌就像剛剛我們陳靜宇委員他有提到像這次川普他就有跟媒體透露就是說在這個月底他在南韓舉行的這個經濟會議期間他會跟習近平見面就會特別提到會討論到台灣的議題又把台灣這個跟媒體透露說我們會談到這個議題"},{"start":457.387,"end":473.562,"text":"那其實陳永康委員今天也講得很清楚就是說其實他是一個經濟會議經貿會議那可是他特別會強調說我會提到台灣的議題所以會不會是其實川普其實也很清楚在這個印太地區覺得台灣應該是一個關鍵"},{"start":475.323,"end":479.328,"text":"在美中這個競爭當中台灣絕對是一個關鍵所以他在談判經貿的這個期間頻頻把台灣給提出來所以這會不會是說台灣被迫被動媒體詢問他他是被動嗎他是被動對"},{"start":496.067,"end":511.82,"text":"是 可是他也認為說會談到這個議題嘛是不是沒有 他認為對方他認為他現在不想談這個問題他不想談那個問題可是在那個月底的時候他其實會跟習近平談到台灣的議題因為他是假設可能習近平如果有見面會想要談這個問題因為他是眼中的蘋果嘛"},{"start":513.201,"end":530.427,"text":"但是對於我想如果你詳細看那個川普總統在這個回應上面他說他並沒有想要在這個時候去談這個問題那我也特別是提出其實這也不是誰能夠去談的問題其實美國是有台灣關係法跟六項保證"},{"start":531.991,"end":550.485,"text":"如果你詳細去看那裡面的內容這不是任何總統他單方面可以去談的而且呢美國的國會也已經把台灣關係法跟六項保證已經透過共同決議現在甚至是立法的方式啊那所以這個是跨黨派我想在美國的這個對台政策是相當"},{"start":552.646,"end":572.112,"text":"一致的至於他們對中的政策這之間當然因為兩岸的關係會有一些互相影響不過我認為這是兩個不同的就是說對美國來講並不是我們冷戰時候可能會涉及到美中台那種三邊關係美中有美中的政策美台也有美台的政策"},{"start":572.352,"end":591.557,"text":"所以部長是認為說他其實是媒體詢問所以他就被動告知因為我後來看到那個媒體還提到就是說他們有提到那個區域安全的這個時候川普就強調就是說美國在印太地區的軍事主義他的實力主義阻嚇中國對台動武這是一個對中國的警告對 因為那是因為澳大利亞總理他們因為有涉及到"},{"start":592.116,"end":616.912,"text":"就是QUAD AUKUS就是說這一個潛艇的問題涉及到是不是如果中共適用在這是AUKUS美英澳三邊的可以說是一個比較戰略跟軍事上的合作"},{"start":617.732,"end":643.13,"text":"釋放會談嗎你講的是這個嗎跨的嗎他們在講跨的那個會談OK因為時間的關係後面那問題大概是問到這裡只是說只是說過去可能國人有很多的疑慮可能就是說可能川普上去之後呢對台灣可能是一個非常不利的一個走向可是現在看起來的話其實發展狀況目前我們還覺得說其實中美關係其實是"},{"start":644.071,"end":658.23,"text":"沒有想像中的這麼的不OK甚至我們還發現說最近美國常常會提到提到台灣那我也覺得說本身也認為說川普政府應該也意識到在這個印太地區如果要跟中國競爭其實台灣是一個關鍵"},{"start":661.318,"end":676.564,"text":"對 因為想說中國企圖改變現狀在多方面那我想台灣對美國來講是很好的一個我們理念相近以外我們有共同的利益包括在這個安全上另外就是在經濟上所以我想更大的就是說一個角度來看我們台美關係其實是其實川普2.0我們在一年"},{"start":686.048,"end":692.998,"text":"接近一年以來我們應該說這政策的延續性是很清楚的OK 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":117,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時40分）謝謝主席，有請我們林部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：部長早安。部長，今天我們要講到的是台美關係，川普剛上任的時候，有很多的國人對於川普政府跟台灣之間的關係會不會產生變化、會不會漸行漸遠這件事情，其實產生了很多的擔憂跟疑慮，可是我們可以從美方現在持續、堅定地支持我國有意義的參與國際組織，還有部長剛才也有提到，今年4月的時候，美國首次在聯合國安理會嚴正批評中方誤用聯大第2758號的決議，美國今年1月份到現在，其實聯邦參眾兩院也都提出了將近60項跟台灣相關的法案以及友我的決議。就在中國持續操作法律戰跟歷史戰，藉由扭曲甚至是二戰文件來主張台灣的主權，我們看到美國在台協會AIT在今年9月很罕見地指出中國試圖扭曲開羅宣言、波茨坦公告跟舊金山合約等等的歷史文件，強調這些二戰的相關文件未決定台灣的最終政治地位，這些也獲得美國國務院的背書。我有看到一些學者指出這一次美方就台灣地位的問題，是由模糊轉向清晰。我想請問部長，因為部長之前也曾經做過一些回應，你那時候有提到其實像開羅宣言也好，或是波茨坦公告，它其實就是一個新聞公告，其實也不是條約，就算是後來你也很強硬地回應像舊金山合約只是聲明日本必須放棄台灣、澎湖所有的權利，並沒有很明確告知台灣主權的歸屬，所以台灣的政治地位未定論，就是從這樣子論述來的。我想請問部長，從過去我們看到美國對台灣其實一直都是採很模糊的定位說，可是到現在很明確了，已經很明確，覺得台灣就是一個未定位，他的政治地位未定位。我想請教部長，像美國這種態度的改變，他最大的原因是什麼，是因為戰略有做了改變？"],["林部長佳龍：是因為中國已經在改變現狀，而且透過法律戰為他武力犯台鋪設基礎，從聯合國第2758號決議，為什麼美國國務院在去年就有四點很清楚的說明，包括各國的議會，還有包括歐洲議會也陸續通過所謂第2758號決議不涉及台灣，因為這150個字裡面都沒有談到台灣，可是中共卻不斷想要有一點做法律戰的操弄。最近又因為所謂的三個80年，也就是1945年的時候，不管是二戰結束或是抗戰勝利，還有包括所謂光復台灣、怎麼成立聯合國這些組織等，而中共發動了一波的法律戰，在法理上企圖把台灣是中國的一部分，尤其是中華人民共和國的一部分，這個變成認知作戰的一部分，這個時候我想理念相近的國家都必須要來澄清，所以這是為了捍衛現狀，因為中華人民共和國是成立在1949年，可是他怎麼去解釋1945年所謂三個80年的歷史事件？所以我想我們看到的是，美國已經不只一次，包括AIT也好，國務院也好，去釐清對於所謂開羅宣言、波茨坦公告到舊金山合約，這個不涉及中共講的台灣是中國的一部分或所謂一中原則。但是站在台灣的角度來講，當然台灣是一個民主的國家，我們有民選的政府，我們有三次政黨輪替，我們在國際上有辦法行使主權能力，基於聯合國宣言或憲章的精神，還有基於國民主權的原則，我們當然沒有所謂的台灣地位未定，我們當然認為台灣實際上就是我們台灣人民經過民主的實踐，已經不斷地肯認，國際上也是認為台灣人民不管是民主的意志，或是我們主權的行為，應該要有參加國際組織包括聯合國跟周邊組織的機會跟權利。"],["羅委員美玲：所以部長對於AIT說這些文件未決定台灣的最終政治地位這部分，你認為其實台灣本來在國際上就有自己所謂的政治地位，我們就是一個主權獨立的國家，所以您對於AIT的說法是有一些不同的想法嗎？是這樣子的意思嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：應該說對於歷史本身的說明，這是針對這三個文件以及當時……"],["羅委員美玲：前面的說明，大家的論述跟想法都是一樣的，我是問後面。"],["林部長佳龍：我想美國並沒有針對後面，也就是台灣民主化之後，或現在國際對於台灣中華民國，我們在國際上的國家地位，所以美國實在有一點是回應中國對於歷史的扭曲，而且是法律戰的一部分，所以你可以看到不斷有記者去詢問的時候，美方的回應還是都很一致的。這是在講歷史，那個歷史為什麼重要，因為它會變成中共所謂的一中原則，從這裡跑出來，而這個會鋪設他武力犯台的法理基礎，所以全世界各國現在才意識到中共的法律戰其實是一個所謂的連環套，其實他在20年前所謂反分裂法的時候，就啟動了所謂三戰，法律戰、輿論戰跟心理戰，而這個就是我們現在講的，包括認知作戰、混合戰，其實是整套，現在加上數位科技，還有中共在國際上的勢力越來越強，所以他不斷地在一些共同聲明想要落實他所謂的一中原則。"],["羅委員美玲：還有我們也發現美國真的近來常常在打台灣牌，就像剛剛陳俊宇委員有提到，像這次川普就有跟媒體透露，在這個月底，他在南韓舉行的經濟會議期間會跟習近平見面，就特別提到會討論到台灣的議題，又跟媒體透露他們會談到台灣這個議題。陳永康委員今天也講得很清楚，其實它是一個經濟會議、經貿會議，可是他特別會強調他會提到台灣的議題，川普其實也很清楚，在印太地區，台灣應該是一個關鍵，在美中的競爭當中，台灣絕對是一個關鍵。所以他在談判經貿的期間，頻頻把台灣給提出來，這會不會是說台灣其實……"],["林部長佳龍：他是因為被動，媒體詢問他……"],["羅委員美玲：他是被動嗎？他是被動？"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["羅委員美玲：可是他也認為會談到這個議題嘛，是不是？"],["林部長佳龍：沒有，他認為他現在不想談這個問題。"],["羅委員美玲：可是在月底的時候，他其實會跟習近平談到台灣的議題，因為他後來……"],["林部長佳龍：因為他是假設習近平如果有見面會想要談這個問題，因為這是眼中的蘋果嘛，但如果你詳細看川普總統的回應，他說他並沒有想要在這個時候去談這個問題。","我也特別提出，這也不是誰能夠去談的問題，其實美國是有台灣關係法跟六項保證，如果你詳細去看那裡面的內容，這不是任何總統單方面可以去談的，而且美國的國會也已經把台灣關係法跟六項保證透過共同決議，現在甚至是立法的方式，所以這個是跨黨派的，我想美國對台政策是相當一致的；至於他們的對中政策，這之間當然因為兩岸的關係會有一些互相影響，不過我認為這是兩個不同的，對美國來講，並不是……我們冷戰的時候，可能會涉及到美、中、台那種三邊關係，美中有美中的政策、美台也有美台的政策。"],["羅委員美玲：所以部長認為其實是媒體詢問，因此他就被動告知，因為我後來看到那個媒體還提到，他們提到區域安全的時候，川普就強調美國在印太地區的軍事實力足以阻嚇中國對台動武，這是一個……"],["林部長佳龍：對，那是因為跟澳大利亞總理……因為有涉及到AUKUS、就是潛艇的問題，涉及到如果中共適用在AUKUS美、英、澳三邊的，這可以說是一個比較戰略跟軍事上的合作。"],["羅委員美玲：四方會談，你講的是這個嗎？Quad，他們講到Quad那個會談。"],["林部長佳龍：AUKUS，對。"],["羅委員美玲：對。因為時間的關係，問題大概問到這裡。過去可能國人有很多的疑慮，川普上去之後對台灣可能是一個非常不利的走向，可是依現在的發展狀況看起來，目前我們覺得中美關係其實沒有想像中這麼的不OK，甚至我們還發現最近美國常常會提到台灣，本席也認為，川普政府應該也意識到在印太地區如果要跟中國競爭，其實台灣是一個關鍵。"],["林部長佳龍：對，應該說中國在多方面企圖改變現狀，我想台灣對美國來講是很好的一個……除了理念相近以外，我們有共同的利益，包括在安全上，另外就是在經濟上，所以我想以更大的一個角度來看，我們台美關係其實是……川普2.0接近一年以來，我們的政策延續性是很清楚的。"],["羅委員美玲：OK。以上，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員永康代）：謝謝羅美玲委員的發言。部長，您回座、喝杯水。","下面我們請馬文君委員質詢，馬委員請。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-7","speakers":["馬文君","陳永康","陳俊宇","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","葉元之","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","賴惠員","林德福","黃國昌","林憶君","王定宇","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","林倩綺"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「近期台美關係及關稅談判進展」，併請行政院經貿談判辦公室、經\n濟部、農業部列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148601_00006"}}}