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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 568.501, \"end\": 568.621, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 568.621, \"end\": 568.721, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 568.721, \"end\": 568.881, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 568.881, \"end\": 569.061, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 569.061, \"end\": 569.181, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 569.181, \"end\": 569.361, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 569.361, \"end\": 569.921, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 569.921, \"end\": 570.002, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 570.002, \"end\": 570.042, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 570.042, \"end\": 570.302, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 570.302, \"end\": 570.402, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 570.402, \"end\": 571.242, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 571.242, \"end\": 571.362, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 571.362, \"end\": 571.902, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 571.902, \"end\": 572.143, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"降\", \"start\": 572.143, \"end\": 572.363, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"低\", \"start\": 572.363, \"end\": 573.503, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 573.503, \"end\": 573.603, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 573.603, \"end\": 573.743, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 573.743, \"end\": 573.843, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"麻\", \"start\": 573.843, \"end\": 573.983, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"煩\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 573.983, \"end\": 574.004, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,638 --> 00:00:07,419\n主席好我們請洪部長邱委員好部長好我想請問針對國內缺工這個嚴重我們行政院長卓榮泰上週表示政府將於短時間內提出全國勞動力總檢討\n\n2\n00:00:27,475 --> 00:00:44,849\n那這個新政策未來引進的移工的速度數量以及方式都將與過去不同能更廣泛的滿足產業與家庭端的能力需求也就是要擴大引進移工這個我想請問部長是不是這樣子跟\n\n3\n00:00:46,393 --> 00:01:05,619\n確認報告的確因為行政委交付給我們一個非常重要的任務是對整體的勞動力的供需進行評估那尤其是針對這個跨國的勞動力進行評估所以我們目前其實也是朝向就像我記得這樣啦過去在講到這個問題的時候我們民進黨的委員都很慎重啦那也影響國內勞工的怕影響這個國內勞工的工作權益\n\n4\n00:01:14,420 --> 00:01:32,581\n那包含賴清德這個院長那總統當那時候當院長的時候他要修的新經濟移民法也是這樣胎死腹中那這一次由葛奎宣是要這個擴大引進勞工我們的規模到底有多大會不會搞到後面又雷聲大雨雨點小然後又胎死腹中\n\n5\n00:01:33,021 --> 00:01:56,553\n我想不一定是說大或小來看待這件事情我覺得最重要的事情還是幾個原則第一個我們還是會秉持本國勞工優先本國勞工的就業機會跟勞動條件這件事要優先考慮因為這個如果一開放當然他就可能是現在我們大概就已經85萬了那逃逸的移工大概也有9萬多人\n\n6\n00:01:57,654 --> 00:02:19,260\n那加加起來如果再擴大的話可能是上百萬人因為這樣的一個規模我希望就是說我們更多主管機關能夠一起來做一個討論提出一個完整的一個配套不要只有勞動部的考量啦我個人這樣想因為可能每個人這些移工進來之後可能會有相關的其他部會也會有同樣\n\n7\n00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:48,622\n也是會有責任的所以我希望把他們的意見也納入可以嗎我們不是用大或小就是說一定要多大規模來思考這件事情我現在不是講大小因為已經有那麼多人嘛你如果說在引進的話是不是就是他可能人數可能就超過百萬那是不是這些跨部會的這個協調還有這個可能發生的原因是不是都要把它納入我想做一個希望你們這邊能做一個完整的一個配套\n\n8\n00:02:49,523 --> 00:03:12,608\n當然移工政策的檢討夠精進配套是很重要的那目前開放的這個職業以哪些產業為主這些移工我想跟委員說明因為當然我們現在政策的研議跟評估現在還是在最後的階段所以我們有最後的結果我們會盡快跟大家報告什麼時候\n\n9\n00:03:13,548 --> 00:03:32,912\n什麼時候會有報告應該會盡快吧你的盡快可以給個時間嗎盡快一個月兩個月我們現在在做最後的一些程序最後你就講個時間就好了我這邊的話是盡快三個月\n\n10\n00:03:39,144 --> 00:04:05,862\n不會那麼久不會那麼久啦那就一個月啦好啦不要超過三個月啦不要跟你討價還價現在不是買東西耶那呃結論啦就是希望針對這次擴大這個引進這個移工除了三個原則來改善缺工我希望能夠有這個整體考量包含健保資源社會安全網逃逸移工的處理以及調整移民政策等等來協助台灣的這個產業\n\n11\n00:04:07,543 --> 00:04:29,484\n那另外我們的Uber可能投資我們的福分大母公司部長雖然經過勞動部與公平會的反對那雖然Uber這邊已經終止了福分大台灣公司的併購案那根據公開的資訊Uber仍可能投資德力赫洛或台灣子公司這部分我們勞動部是否有掌握\n\n12\n00:04:34,380 --> 00:04:38,288\n如果是外資投資的話經濟部都會來申請我們的意見\n\n13\n00:04:38,908 --> 00:05:05,723\n我覺得你們要趕快掌握這個訊息因為你才能夠提早這個因應無論是買台灣的福分大的股份還是買國外母公司的股份如果成為福分大的最大股東都有可能變成實質影響台灣外送員的勞動權益如果發生這種情形我希望部長有想過怎麼樣來協助嗎\n\n14\n00:05:08,643 --> 00:05:08,792\n谢谢大家\n\n15\n00:05:09,725 --> 00:05:37,944\n我想這個因為這部分比較涉及到企業的經營啊經營跟投資那我們勞動部能夠處理的部分還是對於我們還是要保護外送員基本的權益來做保護我們基本還是從這個角度因為面對這種可能市場壟斷威脅三年過去的我們勞動部一直以爭取外界共識為這個藉口拖延當然當時你還沒上任不怪你所以至今沒有到這個外送員\n\n16\n00:05:39,947 --> 00:05:45,755\n專訪部長你最後臨為壽命你覺得這個剛剛我有看到你們準備提版本嗎\n\n17\n00:05:47,523 --> 00:06:09,600\n已經準備提版本了我們有準備那什麼時候會好現在大概進入最後的法制程序可能我們還有三個月左右時間兩三個月時間我希望你們快一點因為這個東西對於我們這個外送員的權益的保障非常非常的重要我們現在有跟\n\n18\n00:06:11,081 --> 00:06:29,043\n這個外送平台這個有開過會嗎有常開會嗎多久開始倒不是定期但是不定期平台跟外送社群我看到最近兩次會議已經拉到四個月最後一次開會是3月14號那到現在七個月都沒召開嗎\n\n19\n00:06:31,925 --> 00:06:46,390\n跟委員說明其實跟其實我們跟不管是平台或者是外送員的互動或者是相關的諮詢跟協調也不是只是單單只在現在的對話平台上面而已這是持續一直在進行的事情你們開會沒有會議記錄\n\n20\n00:06:48,550 --> 00:06:55,795\n那為什麼沒有刮上去的所以你是主管機關啦我覺得如果他們還是不願意接受的話你們應該有作為吧\n\n21\n00:07:19,491 --> 00:07:37,803\n跟文說明所以這也是為什麼我們後來我們也覺得是不是要用更進一步的法治化的方法對啊所以我覺得應該你們要更加快腳步啊我們也是在這個思考下面堂堂勞動部委對不對這些講不聽那怎麼辦呢還是要想個辦法吧\n\n22\n00:07:38,971 --> 00:07:47,920\n好那最後啦我想時間的問題我再請問我剛剛看到我們的交通部我們的陳次長陳次長有到\n\n23\n00:07:52,816 --> 00:08:19,378\n外送員大多使用機車在街頭討生活啦齁這個部分非常不安全那根據統計最高峰一年曾發生8400件的交通事故光是台北市就將近了2000件那交通部公路局也依據這個分工訂了機車外送安全指引齁那市長你是否同意應該鼓勵外送員去上這個交通安全指引課程以保障他們的這個職業安全衛生\n\n24\n00:08:21,921 --> 00:08:37,655\n對我想要跟委員報告我們有這個安全指引之後其實裡頭有很多的一個措施當然包含業者要有相關的一個安全對於外送員要有講習那外送員如果有交通違規比較不好的甚至還要派去駕訓班去受訓等等的\n\n25\n00:08:38,075 --> 00:08:57,573\n那整體這個指引通過之後平均每一車的事故的肇事率原來的0.68降到0.24所以有用嘛是不是要統一路法來做規定然後到公路間單位去配合執行這個部分\n\n26\n00:08:58,734 --> 00:09:18,656\n我想在這個部分因為不管是講習分兩塊一個是剛才我講的業者自己的一個訓練自律的也是那另外一個有關道安講習所以其實駕駛人這個外送員也是一樣他的違規如果達到一定的一個標準就是本來我們的講習辦法裡頭就是要講習所以這部分\n\n27\n00:09:19,016 --> 00:09:34,004\n對啦因為這個外送員已經大概十幾萬人在做這個確實是他們要賺錢生活可是也要讓他們顧到這個基本的人身安全好不好希望這種事情能夠降低部長次長再麻煩你謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5638\t7419\t主席好 我們請洪部長邱委員好 部長好我想請問 針對國內缺工這個嚴重我們行政院長卓榮泰上週表示政府將於短時間內提出全國勞動力總檢討\n27475\t44849\t那這個新政策未來引進的移工的速度 數量以及方式都將與過去不同能更廣泛的滿足產業與家庭端的能力需求也就是要擴大引進移工這個我想請問部長是不是這樣子跟\n46393\t65619\t確認報告的確因為行政委交付給我們一個非常重要的任務是對整體的勞動力的供需進行評估那尤其是針對這個跨國的勞動力進行評估所以我們目前其實也是朝向就像我記得這樣啦過去在講到這個問題的時候我們民進黨的委員都很慎重啦那也影響國內勞工的怕影響這個國內勞工的工作權益\n74420\t92581\t那包含賴清德這個院長那總統當那時候當院長的時候他要修的新經濟移民法也是這樣胎死腹中那這一次由葛奎宣是要這個擴大引進勞工我們的規模到底有多大會不會搞到後面又雷聲大雨雨點小然後又胎死腹中\n93021\t116553\t我想不一定是說大或小來看待這件事情我覺得最重要的事情還是幾個原則第一個我們還是會秉持本國勞工優先本國勞工的就業機會跟勞動條件這件事要優先考慮因為這個如果一開放當然他就可能是現在我們大概就已經85萬了那逃逸的移工大概也有9萬多人\n117654\t139260\t那加加起來如果再擴大的話可能是上百萬人因為這樣的一個規模我希望就是說我們更多主管機關能夠一起來做一個討論提出一個完整的一個配套不要只有勞動部的考量啦我個人這樣想因為可能每個人這些移工進來之後可能會有相關的其他部會也會有同樣\n140440\t168622\t也是會有責任的所以我希望把他們的意見也納入可以嗎我們不是用大或小就是說一定要多大規模來思考這件事情我現在不是講大小因為已經有那麼多人嘛你如果說在引進的話是不是就是他可能人數可能就超過百萬那是不是這些跨部會的這個協調還有這個可能發生的原因是不是都要把它納入我想做一個希望你們這邊能做一個完整的一個配套\n169523\t192608\t當然 移工政策的檢討夠精進配套是很重要的那目前開放的這個職業以哪些產業為主這些移工我想跟委員說明因為當然我們現在政策的研議跟評估現在還是在最後的階段所以我們有最後的結果我們會盡快跟大家報告什麼時候\n193548\t212912\t什麼時候會有報告 應該會盡快吧 你的盡快可以給個時間嗎盡快 一個月兩個月 我們現在在做最後的一些程序 最後你就講個時間就好了我這邊的話是盡快三個月\n219144\t245862\t不會那麼久 不會那麼久啦那就一個月啦好啦 不要超過三個月啦不要跟你討價還價 現在不是買東西耶那 呃 結論啦就是希望針對這次擴大這個 引進這個移工除了三個原則來改善缺工我希望能夠有這個整體考量包含健保資源 社會安全網逃逸移工的處理以及調整移民政策等等來協助台灣的這個產業\n247543\t269484\t那另外我們的Uber可能投資我們的福分大母公司部長雖然經過勞動部與公平會的反對那雖然Uber這邊已經終止了福分大台灣公司的併購案那根據公開的資訊Uber仍可能投資德力赫洛或台灣子公司這部分我們勞動部是否有掌握\n274380\t278288\t如果是外資投資的話經濟部都會來申請我們的意見\n278908\t305723\t我覺得你們要趕快掌握這個訊息因為你才能夠提早這個因應無論是買台灣的福分大的股份還是買國外母公司的股份如果成為福分大的最大股東都有可能變成實質影響台灣外送員的勞動權益如果發生這種情形我希望部長有想過怎麼樣來協助嗎\n308643\t308792\t谢谢大家\n309725\t337944\t我想這個因為這部分比較涉及到企業的經營啊 經營跟投資那我們勞動部能夠處理的部分還是對於我們還是要保護外送員基本的權益來做保護我們基本還是從這個角度因為面對這種可能市場壟斷威脅三年過去的我們勞動部一直以爭取外界共識為這個藉口拖延當然當時你還沒上任不怪你所以至今沒有到這個外送員\n339947\t345755\t專訪部長你最後臨為壽命你覺得這個剛剛我有看到你們準備提版本嗎\n347523\t369600\t已經準備提版本了我們有準備那什麼時候會好現在大概進入最後的法制程序可能我們還有三個月左右時間兩三個月時間我希望你們快一點因為這個東西對於我們這個外送員的權益的保障非常非常的重要我們現在有跟\n371081\t389043\t這個外送平台這個有開過會嗎 有常開會嗎 多久開始倒不是定期 但是不定期平台跟外送社群我看到最近兩次會議已經拉到四個月最後一次開會是3月14號那到現在七個月都沒召開嗎\n391925\t406390\t跟委員說明其實跟其實我們跟不管是平台或者是外送員的互動或者是相關的諮詢跟協調也不是只是單單只在現在的對話平台上面而已這是持續一直在進行的事情你們開會沒有會議記錄\n408550\t415795\t那為什麼沒有刮上去的所以你是主管機關啦我覺得如果他們還是不願意接受的話你們應該有作為吧\n439491\t457803\t跟文說明所以這也是為什麼我們後來我們也覺得是不是要用更進一步的法治化的方法對啊所以我覺得應該你們要更加快腳步啊我們也是在這個思考下面堂堂勞動部委對不對這些講不聽那怎麼辦呢還是要想個辦法吧\n458971\t467920\t好 那最後啦 我想時間的問題 我再請問我剛剛看到我們的交通部我們的陳次長 陳次長有到\n472816\t499378\t外送員大多使用機車在街頭討生活啦齁這個部分非常不安全那根據統計最高峰一年曾發生8400件的交通事故光是台北市就將近了2000件那交通部公路局也依據這個分工訂了機車外送安全指引齁那市長你是否同意應該鼓勵外送員去上這個交通安全指引課程以保障他們的這個職業安全衛生\n501921\t517655\t對 我想要跟委員報告我們有這個安全指引之後其實裡頭有很多的一個措施當然包含業者要有相關的一個安全對於外送員要有講習那外送員如果有交通違規比較不好的甚至還要派去駕訓班去受訓等等的\n518075\t537573\t那整體這個指引通過之後平均每一車的事故的肇事率原來的0.68降到0.24所以有用嘛是不是要統一路法來做規定然後到公路間單位去配合執行這個部分\n538734\t558656\t我想在這個部分因為不管是講習分兩塊一個是剛才我講的業者自己的一個訓練自律的也是那另外一個有關道安講習所以其實駕駛人這個外送員也是一樣他的違規如果達到一定的一個標準就是本來我們的講習辦法裡頭就是要講習所以這部分\n559016\t574004\t對啦 因為這個外送員已經大概十幾萬人在做這個確實是他們要賺錢生活可是也要讓他們顧到這個基本的人身安全好不好 希望這種事情能夠降低部長 次長再麻煩你謝謝\n","txt":"主席好 我們請洪部長邱委員好 部長好我想請問 針對國內缺工這個嚴重我們行政院長卓榮泰上週表示政府將於短時間內提出全國勞動力總檢討\n那這個新政策未來引進的移工的速度 數量以及方式都將與過去不同能更廣泛的滿足產業與家庭端的能力需求也就是要擴大引進移工這個我想請問部長是不是這樣子跟\n確認報告的確因為行政委交付給我們一個非常重要的任務是對整體的勞動力的供需進行評估那尤其是針對這個跨國的勞動力進行評估所以我們目前其實也是朝向就像我記得這樣啦過去在講到這個問題的時候我們民進黨的委員都很慎重啦那也影響國內勞工的怕影響這個國內勞工的工作權益\n那包含賴清德這個院長那總統當那時候當院長的時候他要修的新經濟移民法也是這樣胎死腹中那這一次由葛奎宣是要這個擴大引進勞工我們的規模到底有多大會不會搞到後面又雷聲大雨雨點小然後又胎死腹中\n我想不一定是說大或小來看待這件事情我覺得最重要的事情還是幾個原則第一個我們還是會秉持本國勞工優先本國勞工的就業機會跟勞動條件這件事要優先考慮因為這個如果一開放當然他就可能是現在我們大概就已經85萬了那逃逸的移工大概也有9萬多人\n那加加起來如果再擴大的話可能是上百萬人因為這樣的一個規模我希望就是說我們更多主管機關能夠一起來做一個討論提出一個完整的一個配套不要只有勞動部的考量啦我個人這樣想因為可能每個人這些移工進來之後可能會有相關的其他部會也會有同樣\n也是會有責任的所以我希望把他們的意見也納入可以嗎我們不是用大或小就是說一定要多大規模來思考這件事情我現在不是講大小因為已經有那麼多人嘛你如果說在引進的話是不是就是他可能人數可能就超過百萬那是不是這些跨部會的這個協調還有這個可能發生的原因是不是都要把它納入我想做一個希望你們這邊能做一個完整的一個配套\n當然 移工政策的檢討夠精進配套是很重要的那目前開放的這個職業以哪些產業為主這些移工我想跟委員說明因為當然我們現在政策的研議跟評估現在還是在最後的階段所以我們有最後的結果我們會盡快跟大家報告什麼時候\n什麼時候會有報告 應該會盡快吧 你的盡快可以給個時間嗎盡快 一個月兩個月 我們現在在做最後的一些程序 最後你就講個時間就好了我這邊的話是盡快三個月\n不會那麼久 不會那麼久啦那就一個月啦好啦 不要超過三個月啦不要跟你討價還價 現在不是買東西耶那 呃 結論啦就是希望針對這次擴大這個 引進這個移工除了三個原則來改善缺工我希望能夠有這個整體考量包含健保資源 社會安全網逃逸移工的處理以及調整移民政策等等來協助台灣的這個產業\n那另外我們的Uber可能投資我們的福分大母公司部長雖然經過勞動部與公平會的反對那雖然Uber這邊已經終止了福分大台灣公司的併購案那根據公開的資訊Uber仍可能投資德力赫洛或台灣子公司這部分我們勞動部是否有掌握\n如果是外資投資的話經濟部都會來申請我們的意見\n我覺得你們要趕快掌握這個訊息因為你才能夠提早這個因應無論是買台灣的福分大的股份還是買國外母公司的股份如果成為福分大的最大股東都有可能變成實質影響台灣外送員的勞動權益如果發生這種情形我希望部長有想過怎麼樣來協助嗎\n谢谢大家\n我想這個因為這部分比較涉及到企業的經營啊 經營跟投資那我們勞動部能夠處理的部分還是對於我們還是要保護外送員基本的權益來做保護我們基本還是從這個角度因為面對這種可能市場壟斷威脅三年過去的我們勞動部一直以爭取外界共識為這個藉口拖延當然當時你還沒上任不怪你所以至今沒有到這個外送員\n專訪部長你最後臨為壽命你覺得這個剛剛我有看到你們準備提版本嗎\n已經準備提版本了我們有準備那什麼時候會好現在大概進入最後的法制程序可能我們還有三個月左右時間兩三個月時間我希望你們快一點因為這個東西對於我們這個外送員的權益的保障非常非常的重要我們現在有跟\n這個外送平台這個有開過會嗎 有常開會嗎 多久開始倒不是定期 但是不定期平台跟外送社群我看到最近兩次會議已經拉到四個月最後一次開會是3月14號那到現在七個月都沒召開嗎\n跟委員說明其實跟其實我們跟不管是平台或者是外送員的互動或者是相關的諮詢跟協調也不是只是單單只在現在的對話平台上面而已這是持續一直在進行的事情你們開會沒有會議記錄\n那為什麼沒有刮上去的所以你是主管機關啦我覺得如果他們還是不願意接受的話你們應該有作為吧\n跟文說明所以這也是為什麼我們後來我們也覺得是不是要用更進一步的法治化的方法對啊所以我覺得應該你們要更加快腳步啊我們也是在這個思考下面堂堂勞動部委對不對這些講不聽那怎麼辦呢還是要想個辦法吧\n好 那最後啦 我想時間的問題 我再請問我剛剛看到我們的交通部我們的陳次長 陳次長有到\n外送員大多使用機車在街頭討生活啦齁這個部分非常不安全那根據統計最高峰一年曾發生8400件的交通事故光是台北市就將近了2000件那交通部公路局也依據這個分工訂了機車外送安全指引齁那市長你是否同意應該鼓勵外送員去上這個交通安全指引課程以保障他們的這個職業安全衛生\n對 我想要跟委員報告我們有這個安全指引之後其實裡頭有很多的一個措施當然包含業者要有相關的一個安全對於外送員要有講習那外送員如果有交通違規比較不好的甚至還要派去駕訓班去受訓等等的\n那整體這個指引通過之後平均每一車的事故的肇事率原來的0.68降到0.24所以有用嘛是不是要統一路法來做規定然後到公路間單位去配合執行這個部分\n我想在這個部分因為不管是講習分兩塊一個是剛才我講的業者自己的一個訓練自律的也是那另外一個有關道安講習所以其實駕駛人這個外送員也是一樣他的違規如果達到一定的一個標準就是本來我們的講習辦法裡頭就是要講習所以這部分\n對啦 因為這個外送員已經大概十幾萬人在做這個確實是他們要賺錢生活可是也要讓他們顧到這個基本的人身安全好不好 希望這種事情能夠降低部長 次長再麻煩你謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.638 --> 00:07.419\n主席好我們請洪部長邱委員好部長好我想請問針對國內缺工這個嚴重我們行政院長卓榮泰上週表示政府將於短時間內提出全國勞動力總檢討\n\n00:27.475 --> 00:44.849\n那這個新政策未來引進的移工的速度數量以及方式都將與過去不同能更廣泛的滿足產業與家庭端的能力需求也就是要擴大引進移工這個我想請問部長是不是這樣子跟\n\n00:46.393 --> 01:05.619\n確認報告的確因為行政委交付給我們一個非常重要的任務是對整體的勞動力的供需進行評估那尤其是針對這個跨國的勞動力進行評估所以我們目前其實也是朝向就像我記得這樣啦過去在講到這個問題的時候我們民進黨的委員都很慎重啦那也影響國內勞工的怕影響這個國內勞工的工作權益\n\n01:14.420 --> 01:32.581\n那包含賴清德這個院長那總統當那時候當院長的時候他要修的新經濟移民法也是這樣胎死腹中那這一次由葛奎宣是要這個擴大引進勞工我們的規模到底有多大會不會搞到後面又雷聲大雨雨點小然後又胎死腹中\n\n01:33.021 --> 01:56.553\n我想不一定是說大或小來看待這件事情我覺得最重要的事情還是幾個原則第一個我們還是會秉持本國勞工優先本國勞工的就業機會跟勞動條件這件事要優先考慮因為這個如果一開放當然他就可能是現在我們大概就已經85萬了那逃逸的移工大概也有9萬多人\n\n01:57.654 --> 02:19.260\n那加加起來如果再擴大的話可能是上百萬人因為這樣的一個規模我希望就是說我們更多主管機關能夠一起來做一個討論提出一個完整的一個配套不要只有勞動部的考量啦我個人這樣想因為可能每個人這些移工進來之後可能會有相關的其他部會也會有同樣\n\n02:20.440 --> 02:48.622\n也是會有責任的所以我希望把他們的意見也納入可以嗎我們不是用大或小就是說一定要多大規模來思考這件事情我現在不是講大小因為已經有那麼多人嘛你如果說在引進的話是不是就是他可能人數可能就超過百萬那是不是這些跨部會的這個協調還有這個可能發生的原因是不是都要把它納入我想做一個希望你們這邊能做一個完整的一個配套\n\n02:49.523 --> 03:12.608\n當然移工政策的檢討夠精進配套是很重要的那目前開放的這個職業以哪些產業為主這些移工我想跟委員說明因為當然我們現在政策的研議跟評估現在還是在最後的階段所以我們有最後的結果我們會盡快跟大家報告什麼時候\n\n03:13.548 --> 03:32.912\n什麼時候會有報告應該會盡快吧你的盡快可以給個時間嗎盡快一個月兩個月我們現在在做最後的一些程序最後你就講個時間就好了我這邊的話是盡快三個月\n\n03:39.144 --> 04:05.862\n不會那麼久不會那麼久啦那就一個月啦好啦不要超過三個月啦不要跟你討價還價現在不是買東西耶那呃結論啦就是希望針對這次擴大這個引進這個移工除了三個原則來改善缺工我希望能夠有這個整體考量包含健保資源社會安全網逃逸移工的處理以及調整移民政策等等來協助台灣的這個產業\n\n04:07.543 --> 04:29.484\n那另外我們的Uber可能投資我們的福分大母公司部長雖然經過勞動部與公平會的反對那雖然Uber這邊已經終止了福分大台灣公司的併購案那根據公開的資訊Uber仍可能投資德力赫洛或台灣子公司這部分我們勞動部是否有掌握\n\n04:34.380 --> 04:38.288\n如果是外資投資的話經濟部都會來申請我們的意見\n\n04:38.908 --> 05:05.723\n我覺得你們要趕快掌握這個訊息因為你才能夠提早這個因應無論是買台灣的福分大的股份還是買國外母公司的股份如果成為福分大的最大股東都有可能變成實質影響台灣外送員的勞動權益如果發生這種情形我希望部長有想過怎麼樣來協助嗎\n\n05:08.643 --> 05:08.792\n谢谢大家\n\n05:09.725 --> 05:37.944\n我想這個因為這部分比較涉及到企業的經營啊經營跟投資那我們勞動部能夠處理的部分還是對於我們還是要保護外送員基本的權益來做保護我們基本還是從這個角度因為面對這種可能市場壟斷威脅三年過去的我們勞動部一直以爭取外界共識為這個藉口拖延當然當時你還沒上任不怪你所以至今沒有到這個外送員\n\n05:39.947 --> 05:45.755\n專訪部長你最後臨為壽命你覺得這個剛剛我有看到你們準備提版本嗎\n\n05:47.523 --> 06:09.600\n已經準備提版本了我們有準備那什麼時候會好現在大概進入最後的法制程序可能我們還有三個月左右時間兩三個月時間我希望你們快一點因為這個東西對於我們這個外送員的權益的保障非常非常的重要我們現在有跟\n\n06:11.081 --> 06:29.043\n這個外送平台這個有開過會嗎有常開會嗎多久開始倒不是定期但是不定期平台跟外送社群我看到最近兩次會議已經拉到四個月最後一次開會是3月14號那到現在七個月都沒召開嗎\n\n06:31.925 --> 06:46.390\n跟委員說明其實跟其實我們跟不管是平台或者是外送員的互動或者是相關的諮詢跟協調也不是只是單單只在現在的對話平台上面而已這是持續一直在進行的事情你們開會沒有會議記錄\n\n06:48.550 --> 06:55.795\n那為什麼沒有刮上去的所以你是主管機關啦我覺得如果他們還是不願意接受的話你們應該有作為吧\n\n07:19.491 --> 07:37.803\n跟文說明所以這也是為什麼我們後來我們也覺得是不是要用更進一步的法治化的方法對啊所以我覺得應該你們要更加快腳步啊我們也是在這個思考下面堂堂勞動部委對不對這些講不聽那怎麼辦呢還是要想個辦法吧\n\n07:38.971 --> 07:47.920\n好那最後啦我想時間的問題我再請問我剛剛看到我們的交通部我們的陳次長陳次長有到\n\n07:52.816 --> 08:19.378\n外送員大多使用機車在街頭討生活啦齁這個部分非常不安全那根據統計最高峰一年曾發生8400件的交通事故光是台北市就將近了2000件那交通部公路局也依據這個分工訂了機車外送安全指引齁那市長你是否同意應該鼓勵外送員去上這個交通安全指引課程以保障他們的這個職業安全衛生\n\n08:21.921 --> 08:37.655\n對我想要跟委員報告我們有這個安全指引之後其實裡頭有很多的一個措施當然包含業者要有相關的一個安全對於外送員要有講習那外送員如果有交通違規比較不好的甚至還要派去駕訓班去受訓等等的\n\n08:38.075 --> 08:57.573\n那整體這個指引通過之後平均每一車的事故的肇事率原來的0.68降到0.24所以有用嘛是不是要統一路法來做規定然後到公路間單位去配合執行這個部分\n\n08:58.734 --> 09:18.656\n我想在這個部分因為不管是講習分兩塊一個是剛才我講的業者自己的一個訓練自律的也是那另外一個有關道安講習所以其實駕駛人這個外送員也是一樣他的違規如果達到一定的一個標準就是本來我們的講習辦法裡頭就是要講習所以這部分\n\n09:19.016 --> 09:34.004\n對啦因為這個外送員已經大概十幾萬人在做這個確實是他們要賺錢生活可是也要讓他們顧到這個基本的人身安全好不好希望這種事情能夠降低部長次長再麻煩你謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.638,"end":7.419,"text":"主席好 我們請洪部長邱委員好 部長好我想請問 針對國內缺工這個嚴重我們行政院長卓榮泰上週表示政府將於短時間內提出全國勞動力總檢討"},{"start":27.475,"end":44.849,"text":"那這個新政策未來引進的移工的速度 數量以及方式都將與過去不同能更廣泛的滿足產業與家庭端的能力需求也就是要擴大引進移工這個我想請問部長是不是這樣子跟"},{"start":46.393,"end":65.619,"text":"確認報告的確因為行政委交付給我們一個非常重要的任務是對整體的勞動力的供需進行評估那尤其是針對這個跨國的勞動力進行評估所以我們目前其實也是朝向就像我記得這樣啦過去在講到這個問題的時候我們民進黨的委員都很慎重啦那也影響國內勞工的怕影響這個國內勞工的工作權益"},{"start":74.42,"end":92.581,"text":"那包含賴清德這個院長那總統當那時候當院長的時候他要修的新經濟移民法也是這樣胎死腹中那這一次由葛奎宣是要這個擴大引進勞工我們的規模到底有多大會不會搞到後面又雷聲大雨雨點小然後又胎死腹中"},{"start":93.021,"end":116.553,"text":"我想不一定是說大或小來看待這件事情我覺得最重要的事情還是幾個原則第一個我們還是會秉持本國勞工優先本國勞工的就業機會跟勞動條件這件事要優先考慮因為這個如果一開放當然他就可能是現在我們大概就已經85萬了那逃逸的移工大概也有9萬多人"},{"start":117.654,"end":139.26,"text":"那加加起來如果再擴大的話可能是上百萬人因為這樣的一個規模我希望就是說我們更多主管機關能夠一起來做一個討論提出一個完整的一個配套不要只有勞動部的考量啦我個人這樣想因為可能每個人這些移工進來之後可能會有相關的其他部會也會有同樣"},{"start":140.44,"end":168.622,"text":"也是會有責任的所以我希望把他們的意見也納入可以嗎我們不是用大或小就是說一定要多大規模來思考這件事情我現在不是講大小因為已經有那麼多人嘛你如果說在引進的話是不是就是他可能人數可能就超過百萬那是不是這些跨部會的這個協調還有這個可能發生的原因是不是都要把它納入我想做一個希望你們這邊能做一個完整的一個配套"},{"start":169.523,"end":192.608,"text":"當然 移工政策的檢討夠精進配套是很重要的那目前開放的這個職業以哪些產業為主這些移工我想跟委員說明因為當然我們現在政策的研議跟評估現在還是在最後的階段所以我們有最後的結果我們會盡快跟大家報告什麼時候"},{"start":193.548,"end":212.912,"text":"什麼時候會有報告 應該會盡快吧 你的盡快可以給個時間嗎盡快 一個月兩個月 我們現在在做最後的一些程序 最後你就講個時間就好了我這邊的話是盡快三個月"},{"start":219.144,"end":245.862,"text":"不會那麼久 不會那麼久啦那就一個月啦好啦 不要超過三個月啦不要跟你討價還價 現在不是買東西耶那 呃 結論啦就是希望針對這次擴大這個 引進這個移工除了三個原則來改善缺工我希望能夠有這個整體考量包含健保資源 社會安全網逃逸移工的處理以及調整移民政策等等來協助台灣的這個產業"},{"start":247.543,"end":269.484,"text":"那另外我們的Uber可能投資我們的福分大母公司部長雖然經過勞動部與公平會的反對那雖然Uber這邊已經終止了福分大台灣公司的併購案那根據公開的資訊Uber仍可能投資德力赫洛或台灣子公司這部分我們勞動部是否有掌握"},{"start":274.38,"end":278.288,"text":"如果是外資投資的話經濟部都會來申請我們的意見"},{"start":278.908,"end":305.723,"text":"我覺得你們要趕快掌握這個訊息因為你才能夠提早這個因應無論是買台灣的福分大的股份還是買國外母公司的股份如果成為福分大的最大股東都有可能變成實質影響台灣外送員的勞動權益如果發生這種情形我希望部長有想過怎麼樣來協助嗎"},{"start":308.643,"end":308.792,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":309.725,"end":337.944,"text":"我想這個因為這部分比較涉及到企業的經營啊 經營跟投資那我們勞動部能夠處理的部分還是對於我們還是要保護外送員基本的權益來做保護我們基本還是從這個角度因為面對這種可能市場壟斷威脅三年過去的我們勞動部一直以爭取外界共識為這個藉口拖延當然當時你還沒上任不怪你所以至今沒有到這個外送員"},{"start":339.947,"end":345.755,"text":"專訪部長你最後臨為壽命你覺得這個剛剛我有看到你們準備提版本嗎"},{"start":347.523,"end":369.6,"text":"已經準備提版本了我們有準備那什麼時候會好現在大概進入最後的法制程序可能我們還有三個月左右時間兩三個月時間我希望你們快一點因為這個東西對於我們這個外送員的權益的保障非常非常的重要我們現在有跟"},{"start":371.081,"end":389.043,"text":"這個外送平台這個有開過會嗎 有常開會嗎 多久開始倒不是定期 但是不定期平台跟外送社群我看到最近兩次會議已經拉到四個月最後一次開會是3月14號那到現在七個月都沒召開嗎"},{"start":391.925,"end":406.39,"text":"跟委員說明其實跟其實我們跟不管是平台或者是外送員的互動或者是相關的諮詢跟協調也不是只是單單只在現在的對話平台上面而已這是持續一直在進行的事情你們開會沒有會議記錄"},{"start":408.55,"end":415.795,"text":"那為什麼沒有刮上去的所以你是主管機關啦我覺得如果他們還是不願意接受的話你們應該有作為吧"},{"start":439.491,"end":457.803,"text":"跟文說明所以這也是為什麼我們後來我們也覺得是不是要用更進一步的法治化的方法對啊所以我覺得應該你們要更加快腳步啊我們也是在這個思考下面堂堂勞動部委對不對這些講不聽那怎麼辦呢還是要想個辦法吧"},{"start":458.971,"end":467.92,"text":"好 那最後啦 我想時間的問題 我再請問我剛剛看到我們的交通部我們的陳次長 陳次長有到"},{"start":472.816,"end":499.378,"text":"外送員大多使用機車在街頭討生活啦齁這個部分非常不安全那根據統計最高峰一年曾發生8400件的交通事故光是台北市就將近了2000件那交通部公路局也依據這個分工訂了機車外送安全指引齁那市長你是否同意應該鼓勵外送員去上這個交通安全指引課程以保障他們的這個職業安全衛生"},{"start":501.921,"end":517.655,"text":"對 我想要跟委員報告我們有這個安全指引之後其實裡頭有很多的一個措施當然包含業者要有相關的一個安全對於外送員要有講習那外送員如果有交通違規比較不好的甚至還要派去駕訓班去受訓等等的"},{"start":518.075,"end":537.573,"text":"那整體這個指引通過之後平均每一車的事故的肇事率原來的0.68降到0.24所以有用嘛是不是要統一路法來做規定然後到公路間單位去配合執行這個部分"},{"start":538.734,"end":558.656,"text":"我想在這個部分因為不管是講習分兩塊一個是剛才我講的業者自己的一個訓練自律的也是那另外一個有關道安講習所以其實駕駛人這個外送員也是一樣他的違規如果達到一定的一個標準就是本來我們的講習辦法裡頭就是要講習所以這部分"},{"start":559.016,"end":574.004,"text":"對啦 因為這個外送員已經大概十幾萬人在做這個確實是他們要賺錢生活可是也要讓他們顧到這個基本的人身安全好不好 希望這種事情能夠降低部長 次長再麻煩你謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":479,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（10時16分）主席好。我們請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長好。我想請問針對國內缺工嚴重，行政院長卓榮泰上週表示，政府將於短時間內提出全國勞動力總檢討，這個新政策在未來引進移工的速度、數量以及方式都將與過去不同，能更廣泛地滿足產業與家庭端的能力需求，也就是要擴大引進移工。我想請問部長，是不是這樣子？"],["洪部長申翰：跟邱委員報告，的確，因為行政院也交付給我們一個非常重要的任務，是針對整體勞動力的供需進行評估，尤其是針對跨國的勞動力進行評估，所以我們目前其實也是朝向就像……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我記得過去在講到這個問題的時候，民進黨的委員都很慎重，也怕影響國內勞工的工作權益，包含賴清德總統當院長的時候，他要修的新經濟移民法也是這樣胎死腹中，這一次由閣揆宣示要擴大引進勞工，規模到底有多大？會不會搞到後面又雷聲大、雨點小？然後又胎死腹中？"],["洪部長申翰：我想不一定是以大或小來看待這件事情，我覺得最重要的事情還是幾個原則，第一個，我們還是會秉持本國勞工優先，本國勞工的就業機會跟勞動條件這件事要優先考慮。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為如果一開放，當然就可能是……我們現在大概就已經85萬人，逃逸的移工大概也有九萬多人，如果再擴大的話加一加可能是上百萬人，這樣的規模，我希望有更多主管機關能夠一起來討論，提出一個完整的配套，不要只有勞動部的考量，我個人是這樣想，因為這些移工進來之後，其他相關部會可能也是會有責任的，所以我希望把他們意見也納入，可以嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們不是用大或小，就是說一定要多大規模來思考這件事情……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我現在不是講大小，是因為現在已經有那麼多人，你如果再引進的話，人數可能就超過百萬，是不是這些跨部會的協調，還有各種可能發生的原因都要把它納入，我希望你們能做一個完整的配套。"],["洪部長申翰：當然，移工政策的檢討或精進，配套是很重要的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這些移工目前開放的職業以哪些產業為主？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們現在政策的研議跟評估還是在最後的階段，所以我們有最後的結果會儘快跟大家報告。"],["邱委員鎮軍：什麼時候會有報告？"],["洪部長申翰：應該會儘快吧！"],["邱委員鎮軍：你的儘快可以給個時間嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：儘快。"],["邱委員鎮軍：一個月？兩個月？"],["洪部長申翰：我們現在在做最後的一些程序。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是，你就講個時間就好。"],["洪部長申翰：我這邊……"],["邱委員鎮軍：還是你講不出來，我來講。"],["洪部長申翰：我這邊的話是儘快啦！"],["邱委員鎮軍：三個月？"],["洪部長申翰：不會那麼久。"],["邱委員鎮軍：就一個月？好啦，不要超過三個月，不要跟你討價還價，現在不是買東西。","結論就是針對這次擴大引進移工，除了以三個原則來改善缺工，我希望能夠有整體的考量，包含健保資源、社會安全網、逃逸移工的處理，以及調整移民政策等等，來協助臺灣的產業。","另外，Uber可能投資foodpanda的母公司，部長，雖然經過勞動部與公平會的反對，Uber已經終止foodpanda臺灣公司的併購案，但根據公開的資訊Uber仍可能投資Delivery Hero（德利赫洛）或臺灣子公司，這部分勞動部是否有掌握？"],["王司長厚偉：跟委員報告，如果是外資投資的話，經濟部都會來徵詢我們的意見。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得你們要趕快掌握這個訊息。"],["王司長厚偉：好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你才能夠提早因應。第二，Uber無論是買臺灣foodpanda的股份，還是買國外母公司的股份，如果成為foodpanda的最大股東，都有可能變成實質影響臺灣外送員的勞動權益。如果發生這種情形，部長，有想過怎麼樣來協助嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：因為這部分比較涉及到企業的經營跟投資，我們勞務部能夠處理的部分，還是對於……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們重點還是要保護本土的勞工。"],["洪部長申翰：還是對於外送員基本的權益來做保護，我們基本上還是從這個角度。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，面對這種可能的市場壟斷威脅，3年過去了，勞動部一直以爭取外界共識為藉口拖延，當然當時你還沒上任，不怪你。所以至今還沒有外送員專法，部長，最後你臨危受命，剛剛我有看到你們準備提版本嘛，已經準備提版本了？"],["洪部長申翰：我們有準備。"],["邱委員鎮軍：什麼時候會好？"],["洪部長申翰：現在大概進入最後的法制程序，可能我們還有三個月左右。"],["邱委員鎮軍：兩、三個月時間？"],["洪部長申翰：三個月。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我希望你們快一點，因為這個對於我們外送員權益的保障非常非常的重要。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們現在有跟外送平台開過會嗎？有常開會嗎？多久開會一次？"],["洪部長申翰：倒不是定期，但是會不定期跟平台的外送社群溝通。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看到最近兩次會議已經拉到四個月，最後一次開會是3月14號，到現在七個月都沒召開嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，其實我們不管是跟平台、外送員的互動，或者是相關的諮詢跟協調都是持續一直在進行的事情，也不單單只在現在的對話平台上面而已。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們開會沒有會議紀錄？為什麼沒有掛上去？"],["王司長厚偉：跟委員報告，正式的會議紀錄我們有放上去，這幾個月為什麼沒有開，是因為確實資方在平台會議，我們認為很多題目，它都沒有辦法真正的同意、願意聽取我們的意見，後來我們也認為這樣的平台溝通可能沒有……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你是主管機關，我覺得如果他們還是不願意接受的話，你們應該有作為吧？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，這也是為什麼我們後來也覺得是不是要用更進一步法制化的方法來處理。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊！所以我覺得你們應該要更加快腳步。"],["洪部長申翰：我們也是在這個思考下面進行。"],["邱委員鎮軍：堂堂勞動部，面對這些資方講不聽，那怎麼辦？還是要想個辦法。最後，時間的問題，我再請問，我剛剛有看到交通部陳次長有到，外送員大多使用機車在街頭討生活，這個部分非常不安全，根據統計最高峰一年曾發生8,400件的交通事故，光是臺北市就有將近2,000件，交通部國公路局也依據分工訂定機車外送安全指引，次長，你是否同意應該鼓勵外送員去上交通安全指引課程？以保障他們的職業安全衛生。"],["陳次長彥伯：對，跟委員報告，我們有這個安全指引之後，其實裡頭有很多的措施，當然包含業者要有相關的安全措施，對於外送員要有講習，如果外送員有交通違規或比較不好的紀錄，甚至還要派去駕訓班受訓等等，這個指引通過之後，整體平均每車事故的肇事率由原來的0.68降到0.24，所以……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以有用嘛，對不對？"],["陳次長彥伯：是有用的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那是不是要統一入法來做規定，然後到公路監理單位去配合執行？"],["陳次長彥伯：我想這一個部分，因為講習分兩塊，一個是剛才我講的，業者自己訓練、自律的部分，另外一個是道安講習，所以其實駕駛人如果違規，外送員也是一樣，他的違規如果達到一定的標準，本來我們講習辦法裡頭就是要講習，所以這部分……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦，因為已經大概十幾萬人在做外送員。"],["陳次長彥伯：大概有十五、六萬人。"],["邱委員鎮軍：確實，他們要賺錢生活，可是也要讓他們顧到基本的人身安全，好不好？希望這種事情能夠降低。次長，這部分再麻煩你，謝謝。"],["陳次長彥伯：是，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱鎮軍委員質詢。","現在宣告：待會廖偉翔委員質詢完畢後，休息10分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-6","speakers":["廖偉翔","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","王育敏","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","陳菁徽","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","黃國昌","林國成","李坤城","張啓楷","許宇甄","黃捷","鍾佳濱","楊曜","林楚茵","吳思瑤","劉建國","盧縣一","張智倫","林沛祥","涂權吉"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；二、台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送\n平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人\n員權益保障法草案」案；五、委員王鴻薇等20 人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草\n案」案；六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148801_00003"}}}