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\"好這個也要拜託畢竟追溯期還有20年嘛這個20年我相信都還是可以能抓都還是可以抓得到的那最後一點時間請教一下因為大家都在講說這一次我們是首次的讓這個被疫的替代疫來進行勤務的召集那我認為這個經驗真的非常非常的寶貴那當然也有很多要檢討的地方可不可以請部長跟我們明明確的告訴我們你們目前\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 351.752, \"end\": 352.092, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 352.092, \"end\": 352.172, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 352.172, \"end\": 352.372, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 352.372, \"end\": 352.912, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"託\"}, {\"word\": \"畢\"}, {\"word\": \"竟\", \"start\": 352.912, \"end\": 353.092, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"追\", \"start\": 353.092, \"end\": 353.272, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"溯\", \"start\": 353.272, \"end\": 353.473, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 353.473, \"end\": 353.733, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 353.733, \"end\": 354.373, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 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371.358, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 371.358, \"end\": 371.618, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 371.618, \"end\": 371.758, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 371.758, \"end\": 371.958, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 371.958, \"end\": 372.218, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 372.218, \"end\": 372.418, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 372.418, \"end\": 373.138, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 373.138, \"end\": 373.338, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 373.338, \"end\": 373.538, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 373.538, \"end\": 373.939, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 373.939, \"end\": 374.039, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 374.039, \"end\": 374.199, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 374.199, \"end\": 374.299, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", 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0.551}]}, {\"start\": 379.1, \"end\": 403.6, \"text\": \"實行出來經驗是什麼有沒有檢討那下一次會如何精進呢其實因為在第一批次結訓的時候我有到現場那我看到其實每一個參加備役替代役的藝男他們都覺得很有成就感可以幫忙解除災區的困擾尤其是他們自己的家鄉但是後續有提到說能不能根據他們的專長來做專用\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 379.1, \"end\": 379.32, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 379.32, \"end\": 380.541, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 380.541, \"end\": 380.702, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 380.702, \"end\": 381.762, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 381.762, \"end\": 381.883, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 381.883, \"end\": 382.003, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 382.003, \"end\": 382.743, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 382.743, \"end\": 383.023, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 383.023, \"end\": 383.244, \"score\": 0.989}, 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\"start\": 387.507, \"end\": 388.027, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"訓\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 388.027, \"end\": 388.268, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 388.268, \"end\": 388.368, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 388.368, \"end\": 388.468, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 388.468, \"end\": 388.588, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 388.588, \"end\": 389.969, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 389.969, \"end\": 390.229, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 390.229, \"end\": 390.489, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 390.489, \"end\": 390.67, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 390.67, \"end\": 391.05, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 391.05, \"end\": 391.35, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 391.35, \"end\": 391.49, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": 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\"start\": 398.456, \"end\": 398.596, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 398.596, \"end\": 398.736, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 398.736, \"end\": 399.016, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 399.016, \"end\": 399.076, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 399.076, \"end\": 399.156, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 399.156, \"end\": 399.297, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 399.297, \"end\": 400.357, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"鄉\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 400.357, \"end\": 400.538, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 400.538, \"end\": 400.918, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 400.918, \"end\": 401.618, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 401.618, \"end\": 401.759, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 401.759, \"end\": 401.879, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 401.879, \"end\": 402.319, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 402.319, \"end\": 402.479, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 402.479, \"end\": 402.579, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 402.579, \"end\": 402.799, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 402.799, \"end\": 403.1, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 403.1, \"end\": 403.28, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 403.28, \"end\": 403.44, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 403.44, \"end\": 403.58, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 403.58, \"end\": 403.6, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 405.151, \"end\": 429.102, \"text\": \"那就表示說我們在勤務召集的過程當中我們一定要跟縣市地方政府來配合說他的專長在什麼地方那未來分派其他在救災的任務的時候呢比較有比較高的效率但是我們也看到說90幾個人120幾個人出去的時候其他的效率會非常高他不是一般的流動的部分跟他講說這個結果裡面你兩天要完成什麼工作他其實兩天就全部完成\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 405.151, \"end\": 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\"start\": 494.588, \"end\": 494.708, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 494.708, \"end\": 495.169, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 495.169, \"end\": 495.289, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 495.289, \"end\": 495.369, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 495.369, \"end\": 495.929, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 495.929, \"end\": 496.029, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 496.029, \"end\": 496.47, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"貢\"}, {\"word\": \"獻\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 496.47, \"end\": 496.61, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 496.61, \"end\": 496.89, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 496.89, \"end\": 497.09, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 497.09, \"end\": 497.451, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 497.451, \"end\": 497.671, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 497.671, \"end\": 498.031, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 498.031, \"end\": 498.191, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 498.191, \"end\": 498.552, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"溝\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 498.552, \"end\": 499.572, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 499.572, \"end\": 499.913, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 499.913, \"end\": 499.933, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,164 --> 00:00:24,772\n好謝謝召委我們請劉部長請安保電委員好部長好也跟您先請教一下因為這兩天這個逃兵風暴延燒啊那看到說其實我們內政部目前掌握除了目前已經偵辦的20多位還有大概92件已經送檢掉了所以總共大概是120多件在這個133總共133件在這個犯罪集團裡面嗎\n\n2\n00:00:31,256 --> 00:00:56,693\n很有可能因為大家都集中在閃冰藝人那其實還有一些大家可能沒有這種藝人光環的那我們發現到我們在清查的過程當中就是醫師所出具的診斷書或者是幫忙協助的這些醫院的醫療裡面是不是有出現問題那這相關的這個部分我們查出來以後已經移送給地檢署來做下一步的偵辦\n\n3\n00:00:57,699 --> 00:01:16,573\n好謝謝部長因為這個我非常好奇的是說目前手上這個133人之外到底這個規模到底有多大因為包括部長其實剛也提到說現在台灣免疫的比例大概是16%可是其實鄰近的國家包括韓國跟新加坡其實大概都是5%而已\n\n4\n00:01:17,714 --> 00:01:40,947\n所以如果在這樣的預估之下你們有沒有預估說接下來主動清查下去大概還有多少人數有可能是面臨逃兵的這個問題報告委員這樣子是一個非常好的方向我們大概有兩個目前在這個體檢或是增兵的過程當中是不是有一些不孝的醫師或是醫療院所\n\n5\n00:01:41,587 --> 00:01:55,966\n跟著做這個開具不實的證明讓後面的兵役徵集單位出現這樣子的一個錯誤的判斷那這個部分的我們除了尊重地檢署在偵辦之外那我們可能會跟國防部呢就提出假的這個這個體檢的資料的話\n\n6\n00:02:00,351 --> 00:02:05,253\n要跟他的健保制度來做勾擊也就是他平常的時候血壓都正常那為什麼要徵兵檢查的時候血壓突然竄高那這個部分呢譬如說國防部他們有提出一個想法就是說如果他有這種狀況提出復檢的時候呢可能要求他住院\n\n7\n00:02:16,839 --> 00:02:29,629\n讓他知道說他是不是刻意去吃藥或是有刻意什麼狀況然後把他降成原來他是屬於在健保卡裡面的就醫的紀錄裡面的這樣子才是真正的一個就醫證明那這些呢都要啟動這個程序的時候還必須要跟我們的醫檢單位也就是衛福部做詳細的這個說明跟詳細的溝通那如果這一套系統可以完成的話\n\n8\n00:02:40,618 --> 00:03:05,874\n就會完成我們跟內政部跟那個國防部所說的這個體會標準或者是體檢的過程當中怎麼樣防止這個漏洞往這方面來發展那另外就是我們也會尊重立委所說的部分就是說如果你提供造成這個兵役上面變成免役或是變成替代役的話那不要只有六個月的這樣子的一個刑期也許要往上但是往上也要有上限這個上限呢我們\n\n9\n00:03:06,434 --> 00:03:24,132\n必須要再跟國防部再做一個比較橫平式的檢討那也會詢問那個法務部他們的意見好謝謝部長的說明這就是我非常想要理解的就是接下來到底我們預期第一個現在逃兵的這個人數的規模到底有多大你們手上有掌握嗎\n\n10\n00:03:26,141 --> 00:03:34,803\n我們目前就是掌握到133個那後續我們還都有在清查所以這個主動清查的程序會持續下去對我們會持續好這是我第一個要知道的第二個就是剛剛部長說的其實這個是接下來最重要的事因為其實昨天我們顧立雄部長他其實有提到說接下來會加嚴這個免疫的標準但我認為加嚴免疫的標準只是說這個BMI未來可能\n\n11\n00:03:54,026 --> 00:04:08,552\n會提高或者是說接下來可能會納入更多的人口但除此之外我認為最重要的是防弊因為剛剛部長提到一個非常重要的重點就是這個中間還有非常多的可能是前客可能是協助造假的醫師\n\n12\n00:04:09,792 --> 00:04:32,794\n這是整個犯罪集團啊這些人必須要通通的抓出來才可以知道說即便未來你們加嚴標準提高了未來要納入人口更多了但是如果沒有抓到這些作弊的人都沒有用嘛對所以如何加嚴這個免疫審查的標準這個我認為是內政部接下來最重要的責任好謝謝委員的指教就是我們\n\n13\n00:04:33,875 --> 00:04:50,105\n也沒有跟委員報告其實某一些特定的不肖醫師啊地檢署有掌控OK那他會跟衛福部來做勾結好那基於這個信賴的原則我們就是以衛福部他們勾結出來的原則讓他們自己會移送到這個地檢單位\n\n14\n00:04:51,946 --> 00:04:55,447\n好謝謝部長的補充說明喔那最後刑期的部分當然因為現在大家詬病的就是說買逃兵這件事情太容易了你可能十萬塊就可以買到一張造假的病歷那後來就算被抓到了罰金也只要罰個十幾萬等於是你總共加起來二十幾萬就可以完整買到逃兵的程序大家說哇\n\n15\n00:05:15,051 --> 00:05:30,999\n好便宜喔好划算喔千萬不要讓這件事情變成大家認為是一個可以鑽的漏洞兵役制度的公平性跟國家的安全絕對不能建立在這種被大家這種非常賤價的風評之上好嗎拜託部長\n\n16\n00:05:35,985 --> 00:05:50,953\n謝謝委員的指教我想就是我們查出了他如果是閃兵或逃兵的時候他在36歲除役之前還是要回來服役但是36歲以後會有其他的方式這一點我們正想把這個漏洞再補齊\n\n17\n00:05:51,752 --> 00:06:18,040\n好這個也要拜託畢竟追溯期還有20年嘛這個20年我相信都還是可以能抓都還是可以抓得到的那最後一點時間請教一下因為大家都在講說這一次我們是首次的讓這個被疫的替代疫來進行勤務的召集那我認為這個經驗真的非常非常的寶貴那當然也有很多要檢討的地方可不可以請部長跟我們明明確的告訴我們你們目前\n\n18\n00:06:19,100 --> 00:06:43,600\n實行出來經驗是什麼有沒有檢討那下一次會如何精進呢其實因為在第一批次結訓的時候我有到現場那我看到其實每一個參加備役替代役的藝男他們都覺得很有成就感可以幫忙解除災區的困擾尤其是他們自己的家鄉但是後續有提到說能不能根據他們的專長來做專用\n\n19\n00:06:45,151 --> 00:07:09,102\n那就表示說我們在勤務召集的過程當中我們一定要跟縣市地方政府來配合說他的專長在什麼地方那未來分派其他在救災的任務的時候呢比較有比較高的效率但是我們也看到說90幾個人120幾個人出去的時候其他的效率會非常高他不是一般的流動的部分跟他講說這個結果裡面你兩天要完成什麼工作他其實兩天就全部完成\n\n20\n00:07:09,562 --> 00:07:27,505\n那是因為是群策群力的關係那當然在帶對關裡面的包括地方政府或者是中央政府的我們未來還會跟防災體系互相結合所以在做專長專用的分配的時候更能夠馬上精準的去知道說哪個地方是最需要替代役這些人力幫忙的\n\n21\n00:07:27,865 --> 00:07:53,312\n好謝謝部長說明我最後補充一個點因為其實我這邊接到的經驗他們也都說這個經驗非常好而且這樣的召集對他們來說都是一個榮譽但是呢他們的意見反而是說覺得工作量太少了他們希望自己可以再更有效率的做更多事情那我覺得這是讓我很感佩的地方所以第一個如果未來這樣子替代役的效率其實很高那其實可以再賦予更多的責任給他們\n\n22\n00:07:54,392 --> 00:08:19,933\n第二個也有替代役跟我反映說機具的分配包括說需要一些專業的機具以及現場的這些不管是說從鏟子手套等等這些該給他們的都要明確的直接的給他們第三個就是剛剛講到的專長分配未來一定都要更適材適所讓第一時間召集這些替代役的時候大家都知道自己的專長可以貢獻在什麼地方好我們會多做溝通好謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4164\t24772\t好 謝謝召委 我們請劉部長請安保電委員好部長好 也跟您先請教一下因為這兩天這個逃兵風暴 延燒啊那看到說其實我們內政部目前掌握除了目前已經偵辦的20多位還有大概92件已經送檢掉了所以總共大概是120多件在這個133總共133件在這個犯罪集團裡面嗎\n31256\t56693\t很有可能因為大家都集中在閃冰藝人那其實還有一些大家可能沒有這種藝人光環的那我們發現到我們在清查的過程當中就是醫師所出具的診斷書或者是幫忙協助的這些醫院的醫療裡面是不是有出現問題那這相關的這個部分我們查出來以後已經移送給地檢署來做下一步的偵辦\n57699\t76573\t好謝謝部長因為這個我非常好奇的是說目前手上這個133人之外到底這個規模到底有多大因為包括部長其實剛也提到說現在台灣免疫的比例大概是16%可是其實鄰近的國家包括韓國跟新加坡其實大概都是5%而已\n77714\t100947\t所以如果在這樣的預估之下你們有沒有預估說接下來主動清查下去大概還有多少人數有可能是面臨逃兵的這個問題報告委員這樣子是一個非常好的方向我們大概有兩個目前在這個體檢或是增兵的過程當中是不是有一些不孝的醫師或是醫療院所\n101587\t115966\t跟著做這個開具不實的證明讓後面的兵役徵集單位出現這樣子的一個錯誤的判斷那這個部分的我們除了尊重地檢署在偵辦之外那我們可能會跟國防部呢就提出假的這個這個體檢的資料的話\n120351\t125253\t要跟他的健保制度來做勾擊也就是他平常的時候血壓都正常那為什麼要徵兵檢查的時候血壓突然竄高那這個部分呢譬如說國防部他們有提出一個想法就是說如果他有這種狀況提出復檢的時候呢可能要求他住院\n136839\t149629\t讓他知道說他是不是刻意去吃藥或是有刻意什麼狀況然後把他降成原來他是屬於在健保卡裡面的就醫的紀錄裡面的這樣子才是真正的一個就醫證明那這些呢都要啟動這個程序的時候還必須要跟我們的醫檢單位也就是衛福部做詳細的這個說明跟詳細的溝通那如果這一套系統可以完成的話\n160618\t185874\t就會完成我們跟內政部跟那個國防部所說的這個體會標準或者是體檢的過程當中怎麼樣防止這個漏洞往這方面來發展那另外就是我們也會尊重立委所說的部分就是說如果你提供造成這個兵役上面變成免役或是變成替代役的話那不要只有六個月的這樣子的一個刑期也許要往上但是往上也要有上限這個上限呢我們\n186434\t204132\t必須要再跟國防部再做一個比較橫平式的檢討那也會詢問那個法務部他們的意見好 謝謝部長的說明這就是我非常想要理解的就是接下來到底我們預期第一個現在逃兵的這個人數的規模到底有多大你們手上有掌握嗎\n206141\t214803\t我們目前就是掌握到133個那後續我們還都有在清查所以這個主動清查的程序會持續下去對 我們會持續好 這是我第一個要知道的第二個就是剛剛部長說的其實這個是接下來最重要的事因為其實昨天我們顧立雄部長他其實有提到說接下來會加嚴這個免疫的標準但我認為加嚴免疫的標準只是說這個BMI未來可能\n234026\t248552\t會提高或者是說接下來可能會納入更多的人口但除此之外我認為最重要的是防弊因為剛剛部長提到一個非常重要的重點就是這個中間還有非常多的可能是前客可能是協助造假的醫師\n249792\t272794\t這是整個犯罪集團啊這些人必須要通通的抓出來才可以知道說即便未來你們加嚴標準提高了未來要納入人口更多了但是如果沒有抓到這些作弊的人都沒有用嘛對 所以如何加嚴這個免疫審查的標準這個我認為是內政部接下來最重要的責任好 謝謝委員的指教就是我們\n273875\t290105\t也沒有跟委員報告其實某一些特定的不肖醫師啊地檢署有掌控OK那他會跟衛福部來做勾結好那基於這個信賴的原則我們就是以衛福部他們勾結出來的原則讓他們自己會移送到這個地檢單位\n291946\t295447\t好謝謝部長的補充說明喔那最後刑期的部分當然因為現在大家詬病的就是說買逃兵這件事情太容易了你可能十萬塊就可以買到一張造假的病歷那後來就算被抓到了罰金也只要罰個十幾萬等於是你總共加起來二十幾萬就可以完整買到逃兵的程序大家說哇\n315051\t330999\t好便宜喔好划算喔千萬不要讓這件事情變成大家認為是一個可以鑽的漏洞兵役制度的公平性跟國家的安全絕對不能建立在這種被大家這種非常賤價的風評之上好嗎 拜託部長\n335985\t350953\t謝謝委員的指教我想就是我們查出了他如果是閃兵或逃兵的時候他在36歲除役之前還是要回來服役但是36歲以後會有其他的方式這一點我們正想把這個漏洞再補齊\n351752\t378040\t好這個也要拜託畢竟追溯期還有20年嘛這個20年我相信都還是可以能抓都還是可以抓得到的那最後一點時間請教一下因為大家都在講說這一次我們是首次的讓這個被疫的替代疫來進行勤務的召集那我認為這個經驗真的非常非常的寶貴那當然也有很多要檢討的地方可不可以請部長跟我們明明確的告訴我們你們目前\n379100\t403600\t實行出來經驗是什麼有沒有檢討那下一次會如何精進呢其實因為在第一批次結訓的時候我有到現場那我看到其實每一個參加備役替代役的藝男他們都覺得很有成就感可以幫忙解除災區的困擾尤其是他們自己的家鄉但是後續有提到說能不能根據他們的專長來做專用\n405151\t429102\t那就表示說我們在勤務召集的過程當中我們一定要跟縣市地方政府來配合說他的專長在什麼地方那未來分派其他在救災的任務的時候呢比較有比較高的效率但是我們也看到說90幾個人120幾個人出去的時候其他的效率會非常高他不是一般的流動的部分跟他講說這個結果裡面你兩天要完成什麼工作他其實兩天就全部完成\n429562\t447505\t那是因為是群策群力的關係那當然在帶對關裡面的包括地方政府或者是中央政府的我們未來還會跟防災體系互相結合所以在做專長專用的分配的時候更能夠馬上精準的去知道說哪個地方是最需要替代役這些人力幫忙的\n447865\t473312\t好謝謝部長說明我最後補充一個點因為其實我這邊接到的經驗他們也都說這個經驗非常好而且這樣的召集對他們來說都是一個榮譽但是呢他們的意見反而是說覺得工作量太少了他們希望自己可以再更有效率的做更多事情那我覺得這是讓我很感佩的地方所以第一個如果未來這樣子替代役的效率其實很高那其實可以再賦予更多的責任給他們\n474392\t499933\t第二個也有替代役跟我反映說機具的分配包括說需要一些專業的機具以及現場的這些不管是說從鏟子手套等等這些該給他們的都要明確的直接的給他們第三個就是剛剛講到的專長分配未來一定都要更適材適所讓第一時間召集這些替代役的時候大家都知道自己的專長可以貢獻在什麼地方好我們會多做溝通好謝謝部長謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝召委 我們請劉部長請安保電委員好部長好 也跟您先請教一下因為這兩天這個逃兵風暴 延燒啊那看到說其實我們內政部目前掌握除了目前已經偵辦的20多位還有大概92件已經送檢掉了所以總共大概是120多件在這個133總共133件在這個犯罪集團裡面嗎\n很有可能因為大家都集中在閃冰藝人那其實還有一些大家可能沒有這種藝人光環的那我們發現到我們在清查的過程當中就是醫師所出具的診斷書或者是幫忙協助的這些醫院的醫療裡面是不是有出現問題那這相關的這個部分我們查出來以後已經移送給地檢署來做下一步的偵辦\n好謝謝部長因為這個我非常好奇的是說目前手上這個133人之外到底這個規模到底有多大因為包括部長其實剛也提到說現在台灣免疫的比例大概是16%可是其實鄰近的國家包括韓國跟新加坡其實大概都是5%而已\n所以如果在這樣的預估之下你們有沒有預估說接下來主動清查下去大概還有多少人數有可能是面臨逃兵的這個問題報告委員這樣子是一個非常好的方向我們大概有兩個目前在這個體檢或是增兵的過程當中是不是有一些不孝的醫師或是醫療院所\n跟著做這個開具不實的證明讓後面的兵役徵集單位出現這樣子的一個錯誤的判斷那這個部分的我們除了尊重地檢署在偵辦之外那我們可能會跟國防部呢就提出假的這個這個體檢的資料的話\n要跟他的健保制度來做勾擊也就是他平常的時候血壓都正常那為什麼要徵兵檢查的時候血壓突然竄高那這個部分呢譬如說國防部他們有提出一個想法就是說如果他有這種狀況提出復檢的時候呢可能要求他住院\n讓他知道說他是不是刻意去吃藥或是有刻意什麼狀況然後把他降成原來他是屬於在健保卡裡面的就醫的紀錄裡面的這樣子才是真正的一個就醫證明那這些呢都要啟動這個程序的時候還必須要跟我們的醫檢單位也就是衛福部做詳細的這個說明跟詳細的溝通那如果這一套系統可以完成的話\n就會完成我們跟內政部跟那個國防部所說的這個體會標準或者是體檢的過程當中怎麼樣防止這個漏洞往這方面來發展那另外就是我們也會尊重立委所說的部分就是說如果你提供造成這個兵役上面變成免役或是變成替代役的話那不要只有六個月的這樣子的一個刑期也許要往上但是往上也要有上限這個上限呢我們\n必須要再跟國防部再做一個比較橫平式的檢討那也會詢問那個法務部他們的意見好 謝謝部長的說明這就是我非常想要理解的就是接下來到底我們預期第一個現在逃兵的這個人數的規模到底有多大你們手上有掌握嗎\n我們目前就是掌握到133個那後續我們還都有在清查所以這個主動清查的程序會持續下去對 我們會持續好 這是我第一個要知道的第二個就是剛剛部長說的其實這個是接下來最重要的事因為其實昨天我們顧立雄部長他其實有提到說接下來會加嚴這個免疫的標準但我認為加嚴免疫的標準只是說這個BMI未來可能\n會提高或者是說接下來可能會納入更多的人口但除此之外我認為最重要的是防弊因為剛剛部長提到一個非常重要的重點就是這個中間還有非常多的可能是前客可能是協助造假的醫師\n這是整個犯罪集團啊這些人必須要通通的抓出來才可以知道說即便未來你們加嚴標準提高了未來要納入人口更多了但是如果沒有抓到這些作弊的人都沒有用嘛對 所以如何加嚴這個免疫審查的標準這個我認為是內政部接下來最重要的責任好 謝謝委員的指教就是我們\n也沒有跟委員報告其實某一些特定的不肖醫師啊地檢署有掌控OK那他會跟衛福部來做勾結好那基於這個信賴的原則我們就是以衛福部他們勾結出來的原則讓他們自己會移送到這個地檢單位\n好謝謝部長的補充說明喔那最後刑期的部分當然因為現在大家詬病的就是說買逃兵這件事情太容易了你可能十萬塊就可以買到一張造假的病歷那後來就算被抓到了罰金也只要罰個十幾萬等於是你總共加起來二十幾萬就可以完整買到逃兵的程序大家說哇\n好便宜喔好划算喔千萬不要讓這件事情變成大家認為是一個可以鑽的漏洞兵役制度的公平性跟國家的安全絕對不能建立在這種被大家這種非常賤價的風評之上好嗎 拜託部長\n謝謝委員的指教我想就是我們查出了他如果是閃兵或逃兵的時候他在36歲除役之前還是要回來服役但是36歲以後會有其他的方式這一點我們正想把這個漏洞再補齊\n好這個也要拜託畢竟追溯期還有20年嘛這個20年我相信都還是可以能抓都還是可以抓得到的那最後一點時間請教一下因為大家都在講說這一次我們是首次的讓這個被疫的替代疫來進行勤務的召集那我認為這個經驗真的非常非常的寶貴那當然也有很多要檢討的地方可不可以請部長跟我們明明確的告訴我們你們目前\n實行出來經驗是什麼有沒有檢討那下一次會如何精進呢其實因為在第一批次結訓的時候我有到現場那我看到其實每一個參加備役替代役的藝男他們都覺得很有成就感可以幫忙解除災區的困擾尤其是他們自己的家鄉但是後續有提到說能不能根據他們的專長來做專用\n那就表示說我們在勤務召集的過程當中我們一定要跟縣市地方政府來配合說他的專長在什麼地方那未來分派其他在救災的任務的時候呢比較有比較高的效率但是我們也看到說90幾個人120幾個人出去的時候其他的效率會非常高他不是一般的流動的部分跟他講說這個結果裡面你兩天要完成什麼工作他其實兩天就全部完成\n那是因為是群策群力的關係那當然在帶對關裡面的包括地方政府或者是中央政府的我們未來還會跟防災體系互相結合所以在做專長專用的分配的時候更能夠馬上精準的去知道說哪個地方是最需要替代役這些人力幫忙的\n好謝謝部長說明我最後補充一個點因為其實我這邊接到的經驗他們也都說這個經驗非常好而且這樣的召集對他們來說都是一個榮譽但是呢他們的意見反而是說覺得工作量太少了他們希望自己可以再更有效率的做更多事情那我覺得這是讓我很感佩的地方所以第一個如果未來這樣子替代役的效率其實很高那其實可以再賦予更多的責任給他們\n第二個也有替代役跟我反映說機具的分配包括說需要一些專業的機具以及現場的這些不管是說從鏟子手套等等這些該給他們的都要明確的直接的給他們第三個就是剛剛講到的專長分配未來一定都要更適材適所讓第一時間召集這些替代役的時候大家都知道自己的專長可以貢獻在什麼地方好我們會多做溝通好謝謝部長謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.164 --> 00:24.772\n好謝謝召委我們請劉部長請安保電委員好部長好也跟您先請教一下因為這兩天這個逃兵風暴延燒啊那看到說其實我們內政部目前掌握除了目前已經偵辦的20多位還有大概92件已經送檢掉了所以總共大概是120多件在這個133總共133件在這個犯罪集團裡面嗎\n\n00:31.256 --> 00:56.693\n很有可能因為大家都集中在閃冰藝人那其實還有一些大家可能沒有這種藝人光環的那我們發現到我們在清查的過程當中就是醫師所出具的診斷書或者是幫忙協助的這些醫院的醫療裡面是不是有出現問題那這相關的這個部分我們查出來以後已經移送給地檢署來做下一步的偵辦\n\n00:57.699 --> 01:16.573\n好謝謝部長因為這個我非常好奇的是說目前手上這個133人之外到底這個規模到底有多大因為包括部長其實剛也提到說現在台灣免疫的比例大概是16%可是其實鄰近的國家包括韓國跟新加坡其實大概都是5%而已\n\n01:17.714 --> 01:40.947\n所以如果在這樣的預估之下你們有沒有預估說接下來主動清查下去大概還有多少人數有可能是面臨逃兵的這個問題報告委員這樣子是一個非常好的方向我們大概有兩個目前在這個體檢或是增兵的過程當中是不是有一些不孝的醫師或是醫療院所\n\n01:41.587 --> 01:55.966\n跟著做這個開具不實的證明讓後面的兵役徵集單位出現這樣子的一個錯誤的判斷那這個部分的我們除了尊重地檢署在偵辦之外那我們可能會跟國防部呢就提出假的這個這個體檢的資料的話\n\n02:00.351 --> 02:05.253\n要跟他的健保制度來做勾擊也就是他平常的時候血壓都正常那為什麼要徵兵檢查的時候血壓突然竄高那這個部分呢譬如說國防部他們有提出一個想法就是說如果他有這種狀況提出復檢的時候呢可能要求他住院\n\n02:16.839 --> 02:29.629\n讓他知道說他是不是刻意去吃藥或是有刻意什麼狀況然後把他降成原來他是屬於在健保卡裡面的就醫的紀錄裡面的這樣子才是真正的一個就醫證明那這些呢都要啟動這個程序的時候還必須要跟我們的醫檢單位也就是衛福部做詳細的這個說明跟詳細的溝通那如果這一套系統可以完成的話\n\n02:40.618 --> 03:05.874\n就會完成我們跟內政部跟那個國防部所說的這個體會標準或者是體檢的過程當中怎麼樣防止這個漏洞往這方面來發展那另外就是我們也會尊重立委所說的部分就是說如果你提供造成這個兵役上面變成免役或是變成替代役的話那不要只有六個月的這樣子的一個刑期也許要往上但是往上也要有上限這個上限呢我們\n\n03:06.434 --> 03:24.132\n必須要再跟國防部再做一個比較橫平式的檢討那也會詢問那個法務部他們的意見好謝謝部長的說明這就是我非常想要理解的就是接下來到底我們預期第一個現在逃兵的這個人數的規模到底有多大你們手上有掌握嗎\n\n03:26.141 --> 03:34.803\n我們目前就是掌握到133個那後續我們還都有在清查所以這個主動清查的程序會持續下去對我們會持續好這是我第一個要知道的第二個就是剛剛部長說的其實這個是接下來最重要的事因為其實昨天我們顧立雄部長他其實有提到說接下來會加嚴這個免疫的標準但我認為加嚴免疫的標準只是說這個BMI未來可能\n\n03:54.026 --> 04:08.552\n會提高或者是說接下來可能會納入更多的人口但除此之外我認為最重要的是防弊因為剛剛部長提到一個非常重要的重點就是這個中間還有非常多的可能是前客可能是協助造假的醫師\n\n04:09.792 --> 04:32.794\n這是整個犯罪集團啊這些人必須要通通的抓出來才可以知道說即便未來你們加嚴標準提高了未來要納入人口更多了但是如果沒有抓到這些作弊的人都沒有用嘛對所以如何加嚴這個免疫審查的標準這個我認為是內政部接下來最重要的責任好謝謝委員的指教就是我們\n\n04:33.875 --> 04:50.105\n也沒有跟委員報告其實某一些特定的不肖醫師啊地檢署有掌控OK那他會跟衛福部來做勾結好那基於這個信賴的原則我們就是以衛福部他們勾結出來的原則讓他們自己會移送到這個地檢單位\n\n04:51.946 --> 04:55.447\n好謝謝部長的補充說明喔那最後刑期的部分當然因為現在大家詬病的就是說買逃兵這件事情太容易了你可能十萬塊就可以買到一張造假的病歷那後來就算被抓到了罰金也只要罰個十幾萬等於是你總共加起來二十幾萬就可以完整買到逃兵的程序大家說哇\n\n05:15.051 --> 05:30.999\n好便宜喔好划算喔千萬不要讓這件事情變成大家認為是一個可以鑽的漏洞兵役制度的公平性跟國家的安全絕對不能建立在這種被大家這種非常賤價的風評之上好嗎拜託部長\n\n05:35.985 --> 05:50.953\n謝謝委員的指教我想就是我們查出了他如果是閃兵或逃兵的時候他在36歲除役之前還是要回來服役但是36歲以後會有其他的方式這一點我們正想把這個漏洞再補齊\n\n05:51.752 --> 06:18.040\n好這個也要拜託畢竟追溯期還有20年嘛這個20年我相信都還是可以能抓都還是可以抓得到的那最後一點時間請教一下因為大家都在講說這一次我們是首次的讓這個被疫的替代疫來進行勤務的召集那我認為這個經驗真的非常非常的寶貴那當然也有很多要檢討的地方可不可以請部長跟我們明明確的告訴我們你們目前\n\n06:19.100 --> 06:43.600\n實行出來經驗是什麼有沒有檢討那下一次會如何精進呢其實因為在第一批次結訓的時候我有到現場那我看到其實每一個參加備役替代役的藝男他們都覺得很有成就感可以幫忙解除災區的困擾尤其是他們自己的家鄉但是後續有提到說能不能根據他們的專長來做專用\n\n06:45.151 --> 07:09.102\n那就表示說我們在勤務召集的過程當中我們一定要跟縣市地方政府來配合說他的專長在什麼地方那未來分派其他在救災的任務的時候呢比較有比較高的效率但是我們也看到說90幾個人120幾個人出去的時候其他的效率會非常高他不是一般的流動的部分跟他講說這個結果裡面你兩天要完成什麼工作他其實兩天就全部完成\n\n07:09.562 --> 07:27.505\n那是因為是群策群力的關係那當然在帶對關裡面的包括地方政府或者是中央政府的我們未來還會跟防災體系互相結合所以在做專長專用的分配的時候更能夠馬上精準的去知道說哪個地方是最需要替代役這些人力幫忙的\n\n07:27.865 --> 07:53.312\n好謝謝部長說明我最後補充一個點因為其實我這邊接到的經驗他們也都說這個經驗非常好而且這樣的召集對他們來說都是一個榮譽但是呢他們的意見反而是說覺得工作量太少了他們希望自己可以再更有效率的做更多事情那我覺得這是讓我很感佩的地方所以第一個如果未來這樣子替代役的效率其實很高那其實可以再賦予更多的責任給他們\n\n07:54.392 --> 08:19.933\n第二個也有替代役跟我反映說機具的分配包括說需要一些專業的機具以及現場的這些不管是說從鏟子手套等等這些該給他們的都要明確的直接的給他們第三個就是剛剛講到的專長分配未來一定都要更適材適所讓第一時間召集這些替代役的時候大家都知道自己的專長可以貢獻在什麼地方好我們會多做溝通好謝謝部長謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.164,"end":24.772,"text":"好 謝謝召委 我們請劉部長請安保電委員好部長好 也跟您先請教一下因為這兩天這個逃兵風暴 延燒啊那看到說其實我們內政部目前掌握除了目前已經偵辦的20多位還有大概92件已經送檢掉了所以總共大概是120多件在這個133總共133件在這個犯罪集團裡面嗎"},{"start":31.256,"end":56.693,"text":"很有可能因為大家都集中在閃冰藝人那其實還有一些大家可能沒有這種藝人光環的那我們發現到我們在清查的過程當中就是醫師所出具的診斷書或者是幫忙協助的這些醫院的醫療裡面是不是有出現問題那這相關的這個部分我們查出來以後已經移送給地檢署來做下一步的偵辦"},{"start":57.699,"end":76.573,"text":"好謝謝部長因為這個我非常好奇的是說目前手上這個133人之外到底這個規模到底有多大因為包括部長其實剛也提到說現在台灣免疫的比例大概是16%可是其實鄰近的國家包括韓國跟新加坡其實大概都是5%而已"},{"start":77.714,"end":100.947,"text":"所以如果在這樣的預估之下你們有沒有預估說接下來主動清查下去大概還有多少人數有可能是面臨逃兵的這個問題報告委員這樣子是一個非常好的方向我們大概有兩個目前在這個體檢或是增兵的過程當中是不是有一些不孝的醫師或是醫療院所"},{"start":101.587,"end":115.966,"text":"跟著做這個開具不實的證明讓後面的兵役徵集單位出現這樣子的一個錯誤的判斷那這個部分的我們除了尊重地檢署在偵辦之外那我們可能會跟國防部呢就提出假的這個這個體檢的資料的話"},{"start":120.351,"end":125.253,"text":"要跟他的健保制度來做勾擊也就是他平常的時候血壓都正常那為什麼要徵兵檢查的時候血壓突然竄高那這個部分呢譬如說國防部他們有提出一個想法就是說如果他有這種狀況提出復檢的時候呢可能要求他住院"},{"start":136.839,"end":149.629,"text":"讓他知道說他是不是刻意去吃藥或是有刻意什麼狀況然後把他降成原來他是屬於在健保卡裡面的就醫的紀錄裡面的這樣子才是真正的一個就醫證明那這些呢都要啟動這個程序的時候還必須要跟我們的醫檢單位也就是衛福部做詳細的這個說明跟詳細的溝通那如果這一套系統可以完成的話"},{"start":160.618,"end":185.874,"text":"就會完成我們跟內政部跟那個國防部所說的這個體會標準或者是體檢的過程當中怎麼樣防止這個漏洞往這方面來發展那另外就是我們也會尊重立委所說的部分就是說如果你提供造成這個兵役上面變成免役或是變成替代役的話那不要只有六個月的這樣子的一個刑期也許要往上但是往上也要有上限這個上限呢我們"},{"start":186.434,"end":204.132,"text":"必須要再跟國防部再做一個比較橫平式的檢討那也會詢問那個法務部他們的意見好 謝謝部長的說明這就是我非常想要理解的就是接下來到底我們預期第一個現在逃兵的這個人數的規模到底有多大你們手上有掌握嗎"},{"start":206.141,"end":214.803,"text":"我們目前就是掌握到133個那後續我們還都有在清查所以這個主動清查的程序會持續下去對 我們會持續好 這是我第一個要知道的第二個就是剛剛部長說的其實這個是接下來最重要的事因為其實昨天我們顧立雄部長他其實有提到說接下來會加嚴這個免疫的標準但我認為加嚴免疫的標準只是說這個BMI未來可能"},{"start":234.026,"end":248.552,"text":"會提高或者是說接下來可能會納入更多的人口但除此之外我認為最重要的是防弊因為剛剛部長提到一個非常重要的重點就是這個中間還有非常多的可能是前客可能是協助造假的醫師"},{"start":249.792,"end":272.794,"text":"這是整個犯罪集團啊這些人必須要通通的抓出來才可以知道說即便未來你們加嚴標準提高了未來要納入人口更多了但是如果沒有抓到這些作弊的人都沒有用嘛對 所以如何加嚴這個免疫審查的標準這個我認為是內政部接下來最重要的責任好 謝謝委員的指教就是我們"},{"start":273.875,"end":290.105,"text":"也沒有跟委員報告其實某一些特定的不肖醫師啊地檢署有掌控OK那他會跟衛福部來做勾結好那基於這個信賴的原則我們就是以衛福部他們勾結出來的原則讓他們自己會移送到這個地檢單位"},{"start":291.946,"end":295.447,"text":"好謝謝部長的補充說明喔那最後刑期的部分當然因為現在大家詬病的就是說買逃兵這件事情太容易了你可能十萬塊就可以買到一張造假的病歷那後來就算被抓到了罰金也只要罰個十幾萬等於是你總共加起來二十幾萬就可以完整買到逃兵的程序大家說哇"},{"start":315.051,"end":330.999,"text":"好便宜喔好划算喔千萬不要讓這件事情變成大家認為是一個可以鑽的漏洞兵役制度的公平性跟國家的安全絕對不能建立在這種被大家這種非常賤價的風評之上好嗎 拜託部長"},{"start":335.985,"end":350.953,"text":"謝謝委員的指教我想就是我們查出了他如果是閃兵或逃兵的時候他在36歲除役之前還是要回來服役但是36歲以後會有其他的方式這一點我們正想把這個漏洞再補齊"},{"start":351.752,"end":378.04,"text":"好這個也要拜託畢竟追溯期還有20年嘛這個20年我相信都還是可以能抓都還是可以抓得到的那最後一點時間請教一下因為大家都在講說這一次我們是首次的讓這個被疫的替代疫來進行勤務的召集那我認為這個經驗真的非常非常的寶貴那當然也有很多要檢討的地方可不可以請部長跟我們明明確的告訴我們你們目前"},{"start":379.1,"end":403.6,"text":"實行出來經驗是什麼有沒有檢討那下一次會如何精進呢其實因為在第一批次結訓的時候我有到現場那我看到其實每一個參加備役替代役的藝男他們都覺得很有成就感可以幫忙解除災區的困擾尤其是他們自己的家鄉但是後續有提到說能不能根據他們的專長來做專用"},{"start":405.151,"end":429.102,"text":"那就表示說我們在勤務召集的過程當中我們一定要跟縣市地方政府來配合說他的專長在什麼地方那未來分派其他在救災的任務的時候呢比較有比較高的效率但是我們也看到說90幾個人120幾個人出去的時候其他的效率會非常高他不是一般的流動的部分跟他講說這個結果裡面你兩天要完成什麼工作他其實兩天就全部完成"},{"start":429.562,"end":447.505,"text":"那是因為是群策群力的關係那當然在帶對關裡面的包括地方政府或者是中央政府的我們未來還會跟防災體系互相結合所以在做專長專用的分配的時候更能夠馬上精準的去知道說哪個地方是最需要替代役這些人力幫忙的"},{"start":447.865,"end":473.312,"text":"好謝謝部長說明我最後補充一個點因為其實我這邊接到的經驗他們也都說這個經驗非常好而且這樣的召集對他們來說都是一個榮譽但是呢他們的意見反而是說覺得工作量太少了他們希望自己可以再更有效率的做更多事情那我覺得這是讓我很感佩的地方所以第一個如果未來這樣子替代役的效率其實很高那其實可以再賦予更多的責任給他們"},{"start":474.392,"end":499.933,"text":"第二個也有替代役跟我反映說機具的分配包括說需要一些專業的機具以及現場的這些不管是說從鏟子手套等等這些該給他們的都要明確的直接的給他們第三個就是剛剛講到的專長分配未來一定都要更適材適所讓第一時間召集這些替代役的時候大家都知道自己的專長可以貢獻在什麼地方好我們會多做溝通好謝謝部長謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":438,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（10時5分）謝謝召委，我們請劉部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["黃委員捷：部長好。先跟您請教一下，因為這兩天逃兵風暴延燒，我們看到內政部目前的掌握，除了已經偵辦的二十多位，還有大概92件，已經送檢調了，所以總共大概是一百二十多件……"],["劉部長世芳：133件。"],["黃委員捷：喔！總共133件，在這個犯罪集團裡面嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：很有可能，因為大家都聚焦在閃兵藝人，其實還有一些沒有這種藝人光環的，在清查的過程當中我們發現到，醫師所出具的診斷書或者是幫忙協助的這些醫院的醫療裡面是不是有出現問題，相關的部分我們查出來以後已經移送給地檢署來做下一步的偵辦。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長。我非常好奇的是說，除了目前你們手上掌握的這133人之外，這個規模到底有多大？因為包括部長剛剛也提到，現在臺灣免役的比例大概是16%，可是其實鄰近的國家包括韓國跟新加坡大概都是5%而已，在這樣的預估之下，你們有沒有預估接下來主動清查下去，大概還有多少人有可能面臨逃兵的問題？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，這是一個非常好的方向，我們大概分為兩個部分，在體檢或是徵兵的過程當中，是不是有一些不肖的醫師或是醫療院所開具不實的證明，讓後面的兵役徵集單位出現這樣的錯誤判斷，這個部分，我們除了尊重地檢署的偵辦，也可能會跟國防部就提出假的體檢資料部分，跟他的健保資料來做勾稽，也就是他平常時血壓都正常，為什麼要徵兵檢查的時候血壓就突然竄高，就這個部分，國防部有提出一個想法，就是如果他有這種狀況，提出複檢的時候可能要要求他住院，才能夠知道他是不是刻意去吃藥或是否刻意造成什麼狀況，以檢視他是否符合原本健保卡裡面就醫紀錄的狀況，這樣才是真正的就醫證明。要啟動這樣的程序，還必須要跟我們的醫檢單位也就是衛福部做詳細的說明及詳細溝通，如果這一套系統可以完成，就會完成內政部跟國防部所說的體位區分標準，或是在體檢的過程當中怎麼樣防止這個漏洞，往這方面來發展。","另外，我們也尊重立委所說的部分，就是如果因為提供的證明造成在兵役上變成免役或是變成替代役，不要只有六個月的刑期，也許要往上，但是往上也要有上限，這個上限我們必須再跟國防部做一個比較衡平式的檢討，也會詢問法務部的意見。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長的說明，這就是我非常想要理解的，我們目前預期逃兵的人數規模到底有多大，你們手上有掌握嗎？"],["沈司長哲芳：我們目前就是掌握到133位，後續我們都還有再清查，包括有接到……"],["黃委員捷：所以主動清查的程序會持續下去？"],["沈司長哲芳：對，我們會持續。"],["黃委員捷：好，這是我第一個要知道的。第二個就是剛剛部長說的，其實這是接下來最重要的事，因為昨天顧立雄部長有提到接下來會加嚴免役標準，但我認為加嚴免役標準只是BMI可能會提高，或是說接下來可能會納入更多人口，但除此之外，我認為最重要的是防弊，因為剛剛部長提到一個非常重要的重點，就是這中間還有非常多的，可能是掮客、可能是協助造假的醫師，這是整個犯罪集團，這些人必須要通通抓出來，因為即便未來你們把標準加嚴、提高了、納入的人口更多了，但是如果沒有抓到這些作弊的人，那就都沒有用嘛！所以如何加嚴免役審查的標準，這個部分我認為是內政部接下來最重要的責任。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員的指教，跟委員報告，其實某些特定的不肖醫師，地檢署也有掌控，它會跟衛福部來做勾稽。"],["黃委員捷：好，這個再麻煩。"],["劉部長世芳：基於信賴原則，我們就是以衛福部勾稽出來的為原則，他們自己會移送到地檢單位。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長的補充說明。最後在刑期的部分，因為現在大家詬病的就是買逃兵這件事情太容易了，可能10萬塊就可以買到一張造假的病歷，後來就算被抓到了，罰金也只要罰個十幾萬，等於是總共加起來二十幾萬就可以完整買到逃兵的程序，大家說：「哇！好便宜喔！好划算喔！」千萬不要讓這件事情變成是一件大家認為可以鑽的漏洞，兵役制度的公平性跟國家的安全絕對不能建立在這種非常賤價的風評之上，好嗎？拜託部長。"],["劉部長世芳：好，謝謝委員的指教，如果我們查出他是閃兵或逃兵，在他36歲除役之前，還是要回來服役，但是36歲以後會有其他的方式，有關這一點我們正想把這個漏洞再補齊。"],["黃委員捷：好，這個也要拜託，畢竟追溯期還有20年嘛，我相信能抓都還是可以抓得到的。","最後一點時間，請教一下，因為大家都在講說這一次我們是首次讓備役替代役來進行勤務的召集，我認為這個經驗真的非常、非常地寶貴，當然也有很多要檢討的地方，可不可以請部長明確地告訴我們，你們目前執行出來的經驗是什麼？有沒有檢討，下一次會如何精進呢？"],["劉部長世芳：是，其實在第一梯次結訓的時候我有到現場，我看到每一個參加備役替代役的役男都覺得很有成就感，可以幫忙解除災區的困擾，尤其是他們自己的家鄉，但是後續有提到說能不能根據他們的專長來做專用，就表示我們在勤務召集的過程當中，我們一定要跟縣市地方政府來配合，了解他的專長在什麼地方，未來在分派其他救災任務時會有比較高的效率；但是我們也看到，當九十幾個人、一百二十幾個人出去的時候，其實效率會非常高，他不是一般的流動部分，跟他講說在這個裡面，你兩天要完成什麼工作，他其實兩天就全部完成，那是因為群策群力的關係。"],["黃委員捷：是，好。"],["劉部長世芳：當然在帶隊官的部分，包括地方政府或者是中央政府的，我們未來還會跟防災體系互相結合，如此，在做專長專用的分配時，更能夠馬上精準地知道哪個地方是最需要替代役的這些人力幫忙。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長的說明。我最後補充一個點，以我這邊接到的回饋，他們也都說這個經驗非常好，而且這樣的召集對他們來說都是一個榮譽，但是他們的意見反而是覺得工作量太少了，他們希望自己可以再更有效率地做更多事情，我覺得這是讓我很感佩的地方，所以第一個，因為這樣的替代役的效率其實很高，未來可以再賦予更多的責任給他們；第二個，也有替代役跟我反映有關機具的分配，包括一些專業的機具以及現場的工具，不管是鏟子、手套等等，這些該給他們的都要明確地直接給他們；第三個就是剛剛講到的專長分配，未來一定都要更適才適所，在第一時間召集這些替代役的時候，讓大家都知道自己的專長可以貢獻在什麼地方。"],["劉部長世芳：好，我們會多做溝通。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝，感謝黃捷委員的質詢。","接下來請麥玉珍委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":288,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-7","speakers":["王美惠","羅美玲","麥玉珍","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","牛煦庭","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","羅廷瑋","林楚茵","謝龍介","吳琪銘","高金素梅"],"page_start":249,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請內政部就「替代役訓練及備役召集運用」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查「替代役\n實施條例」： ( 一 ) 委員王美惠等 18 人擬具「替代役實施條例第五十九條條文修正草案」案、\n(二）委員羅美玲等18人擬具「替代役實施條例增訂第五十五條之五條文草案」案、 (三)台灣民\n眾黨黨團擬具「替代役實施條例第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1148601_00005"}}}