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我是建議你們這個在司法的行政上這件事情可能還要可以看什麼讓人民不會覺得說 哇 每次有人去送鴨怎麼大家幾個人都要看電視 都要等想說靠運氣 然後幾家歡樂 幾家醜有些人開心 有些人不開心\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 425.029, \"end\": 425.209, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 425.209, \"end\": 426.15, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 426.15, \"end\": 426.551, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 426.551, \"end\": 428.873, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 428.873, \"end\": 429.053, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 429.053, \"end\": 429.333, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"差\", \"start\": 429.333, \"end\": 429.573, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 429.573, \"end\": 429.754, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 429.754, \"end\": 429.994, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 429.994, \"end\": 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\"包括以前是所有少年的處罰紀錄三年滿都塗銷現在是你再處罰不塗銷又留著是這樣所以這個必須讓社會整個翻轉這個概念想法跟法治的一個更新我是說我最後就提醒說這樣的一個塗銷的這個規定恐怕讓這個詐騙集團的老大直接跟小朋友講說你不用擔心立法院就是會幫你們塗銷啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 612.83, \"end\": 612.99, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 612.99, \"end\": 613.491, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 613.491, \"end\": 613.731, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 613.731, \"end\": 614.191, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 614.191, \"end\": 614.551, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 614.551, \"end\": 614.852, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 614.852, \"end\": 615.552, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 615.552, \"end\": 615.752, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 615.752, \"end\": 615.913, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 615.913, \"end\": 616.913, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"罰\"}, {\"word\": \"紀\"}, {\"word\": \"錄\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 616.913, 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{\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 659.352, \"end\": 659.613, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 659.613, \"end\": 659.633, \"score\": 0.033}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 659.633, \"end\": 659.713, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 659.713, \"end\": 659.733, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 659.733, \"end\": 659.753, \"score\": 0.004}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,087 --> 00:00:27,164\n好謝謝主席我們請王副秘書長好有請王副秘委員早好剛剛有委員質詢有些東西你可能來不及講現在讓你講你們那個司法院什麼開會的紀錄啊這個公開不公開這件事情在司法院裡頭的規定是什麼啊等一下我們請廳長\n\n2\n00:00:37,584 --> 00:01:00,577\n跟委員報告其實是依照政府資訊公開法的規定那政府資訊應該要公開的應該是有關政府機關的部分應該是指合議制的機構的會議記錄應該要公開所以因為司法院本身它認為並不是一個合議制的機構所以在依照政府資訊公開法的規定它並沒有一定要公開的情況\n\n3\n00:01:01,878 --> 00:01:25,515\n至於司法院已經有將這個院會的會議的決議公開在網頁上那這跟目前行政院院會的公開決議的做法是一致的這是可以補充說就是有決議的部分在公開就決議的事項有加以公開那至於在會議中個別的發言的部分目前是沒有好所以你們有把握你們現在做法沒有什麼問題\n\n4\n00:01:34,014 --> 00:01:58,194\n有沒有把握啦是有把握啦好因為大家五院互相尊重啦這個大家就是司法院到立法院到底要報告什麼這個誰來報告這個大家都不管是規定或者約定俗成這個我們就繼續做第二個剛剛也提到說這個我們現在一般民眾也會認為啊\n\n5\n00:01:59,659 --> 00:02:26,470\n奇怪啊這個人可以交報啊這個人讓他回去啊這個人給他修啊那這個人很可惡啊為什麼讓他回家了啊這個人看起來就沒事啊為什麼要把他要把他積壓啊為什麼這個人交保幾萬啊那個人交保為什麼幾萬啊站在司法院的角度啦個別法官他們做這些裁定\n\n6\n00:02:28,090 --> 00:02:54,355\n在司法院裡面現在有什麼機制啊去討論說這個事情在這個法官界他這個裁定怪怪就是有什麼樣的機制啊不管叫做補救啦或者檢討啦或者是什麼否則每次看到有人被生壓整群都在外面等看電視好像在開獎一樣\n\n7\n00:02:56,112 --> 00:03:22,044\n人民對這件事現在沒什麼反應就說大膽的膽子要不要說喔漂亮啦聰明啦好啦沒問題啦跟你說沒問題就是沒問題這個好像對司法的威信啦大家都會有質疑呢站在你們司法院的角度啊你們有什麼樣的機制喔可以讓人民可以認為說好啦反正你們就守一個規定啦法官都會照這樣來裁啦你們有什麼機制\n\n8\n00:03:26,127 --> 00:03:42,766\n謝謝委員其實因為羈押有一定的那個要件那就是說他設可是他很多事項就是說他還有涉及很多那個材料就是除了就是說罪名他會影響之外的話就是說他那些犯罪情節到底\n\n9\n00:03:43,727 --> 00:04:03,068\n重不重或者說現有那個證據到底是什麼那那個法官除了這些之外他還要考量說每個被告他那個資歷也都不相同那或者是說有些人就是說他跟國外的連結可能就比較多就是說也許小孩就在那個國外國外就是有資產所以可能會那個出去\n\n10\n00:04:03,769 --> 00:04:23,906\n那所以就是說法院他要裁量那個事情實在是很多就是實在是沒有辦法就是說我們一看這個案件就像剛剛那個就是質詢的有關於那個南京這個案件漏鳥俠他到底要不要那個羈押就是連我們手上沒有看到這個那個證據我們也不清楚說\n\n11\n00:04:24,566 --> 00:04:52,962\n他呈現的這些事實所涉及的罪名到底是重罪還是那個我知道這個我都懂就是說那我想這個部分呢就是要跟民眾多溝通啊就是說他不是一個法律感情覺得一個人漏鳥了而是說就是要跟民眾多溝通說法院到底是依據什麼樣那個事實然後來決定羈押跟不羈押對是站在司法院的角度啦就是社會總是覺得好像\n\n12\n00:04:54,531 --> 00:05:16,258\n好像好歹運啊好歹運就是說運氣好運氣不好我為什麼這樣講呢就是常常很多包括律師在評論說這個人被生壓了看起來啊壓定了或者是說最後沒有壓讓他交保了那大家想說啊應該進去什麼都說了啦大家會這樣講說阿記人就都說了啊就給交報啊就都說了啊什麼都經出來啊\n\n13\n00:05:25,098 --> 00:05:33,071\n然後呢看起來也不會逃亡啊所以我看搞不好啦待個這一個電子的監控啊應該是沒什麼問題社會還是會覺得好像要靠運氣\n\n14\n00:05:40,031 --> 00:06:03,832\n我知道你們的態度就是說法官要綜合很多的考量可是在司法院的角度就這樣就說要不然法官個別法官或是合意之後決定說就讓他交保或是讓他羈押社會還是會覺得怪怪的你們世界各國都這樣嗎都靠法官法官說我把你騙就是要把你騙沒有你搞不好就要把你騙叫你回去叫你回去\n\n15\n00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:11,423\n然後我們的司法院就是說在行政上我們也不會去討論這件事情還是怎麼樣我在講的是一個機制或是你們都直接放給法官去用\n\n16\n00:06:20,656 --> 00:06:46,335\n當然就是說有關於那個有關於那個羈押就是他的要件跟他那個裁量事項就是我們平常就是做那個平常培訓的時候這個當然就都會跟那個法官多溝通那另外就是說現在其實有很多法院他都有那個強制處分庭那強制處分庭就是有關於這些羈押偵查中羈押這些那個申請的他是集中\n\n17\n00:06:47,336 --> 00:07:03,648\n集中在幾個法官他們所做的那他們的標準就會比較趨於一致譬如說像申請搜索的時候那你是內部趨於一致譬如說台北一致台中一致那台北跟台中會不會一致\n\n18\n00:07:05,029 --> 00:07:29,452\n照理來說應該也會是這個標準不會差很多的好啦我是建議你們這個在司法的行政上這件事情可能還要可以看什麼讓人民不會覺得說哇每次有人去送鴨怎麼大家幾個人都要看電視都要等想說靠運氣然後幾家歡樂幾家醜有些人開心有些人不開心\n\n19\n00:07:30,475 --> 00:07:58,582\n我覺得這樣對司法不好啦第二個你們提到一個少年事件處理法要把這一個前科叫前案記錄突銷的這一些事情我們現在很多詐騙集團就把這個年輕人怎麼說公關警你又年輕你今年國中生嘛你去做車手如果怎麼樣怎麼樣你領工出來也都沒事這個會跟你們現在這一次要提的這些修法\n\n20\n00:08:00,021 --> 00:08:28,228\n會有關嗎這個我請那個廳長來說謝謝委員的催省是有關過去升職在所有的學生家長所有的社會復歸都是突銷現在要有條件的突銷就是要保持善良品性才可以突銷不是啦我是一個15歲的國中生啊我們長大的就叫我去捏錢嘛當廁所嘛\n\n21\n00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:35,916\n我們就去念了嘛,我們老大跟我說你年輕的你去,你這樣的環境你現在的未成年啊,到現在都沒事情了他那個去用上課上課的,什麼關乎學校上課的都沒事情,幾年都沒事情,你就這樣了啊這些突銷,我現在看這些突銷會不會讓這些詐騙集團啊跟這些未成年的一起來說你們都不用高興啊,會嗎?\n\n22\n00:08:55,583 --> 00:08:58,064\n現在這一波我們送進來的修法我們也會廣為對社會教育學校的教育跟各方面我們都會製作各項的...你不用教育啦我是說詐騙集團會逮到這個機會說你看啊你看他通過啦不用緊張啦\n\n23\n00:09:13,371 --> 00:09:17,034\n這齁你捏一捏就去上課上上的捏對不對換個環境上課而已他要讓你20歲、25歲的時候紀錄都沒了會這樣嗎不會因為現在的修法就是你有一個處罰的紀錄少年那麼輔導完畢這三年內輔導完畢三年內必須沒有再任何觸犯法律\n\n24\n00:09:38,130 --> 00:09:42,634\n你15歲進去三年後17、15歲都沒紀錄了是不是這樣這個紀錄原第一次的紀錄如果他三年輔導完畢三年內又再處罰不會突銷不會他就沒處罰了\n\n25\n00:09:53,422 --> 00:09:57,843\n如果都沒處罰會把它突銷這是為了讓少年復歸社會就能成長對啦我是說這款作用力就是詐騙集團就跟年輕人說人家的立法院就通過了現在改了三年你就沒事啦別怕啦他也不會有顫抖啦你就去做去念就對了啦\n\n26\n00:10:12,830 --> 00:10:40,673\n包括以前是所有少年的處罰紀錄三年滿都塗銷現在是你再處罰不塗銷又留著是這樣所以這個必須讓社會整個翻轉這個概念想法跟法治的一個更新我是說我最後就提醒說這樣的一個塗銷的這個規定恐怕讓這個詐騙集團的老大直接跟小朋友講說你不用擔心立法院就是會幫你們塗銷啦\n\n27\n00:10:42,587 --> 00:10:59,753\n這立法院都我們立的連電視報說這年輕人怎麼15歲去當車手20歲都沒問題因為立法院已經說好了就給他取消這個有時候要點頭說就是說這件事情可能要特別去注意一下好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6087\t27164\t好 謝謝主席 我們請王副秘書長好 有請王副秘委員早好 剛剛有委員質詢有些東西你可能來不及講 現在讓你講你們那個司法院什麼開會的紀錄啊這個公開不公開這件事情在司法院裡頭的規定是什麼啊等一下我們請廳長\n37584\t60577\t跟委員報告 其實是依照政府資訊公開法的規定那政府資訊應該要公開的應該是有關政府機關的部分應該是指合議制的機構的會議記錄應該要公開所以因為司法院本身它認為並不是一個合議制的機構所以在依照政府資訊公開法的規定它並沒有一定要公開的情況\n61878\t85515\t至於司法院已經有將這個院會的會議的決議公開在網頁上那這跟目前行政院院會的公開決議的做法是一致的這是可以補充說就是有決議的部分在公開就決議的事項有加以公開那至於在會議中個別的發言的部分目前是沒有好 所以你們有把握你們現在做法沒有什麼問題\n94014\t118194\t有沒有把握啦是有把握啦好因為大家五院互相尊重啦這個大家就是司法院到立法院到底要報告什麼這個誰來報告這個大家都不管是規定或者約定俗成這個我們就繼續做第二個剛剛也提到說這個我們現在一般民眾也會認為啊\n119659\t146470\t奇怪 啊這個人可以交報 啊這個人讓他回去啊這個人給他修啊那這個人很可惡啊 為什麼讓他回家了啊這個人看起來就沒事啊 為什麼要把他要把他積壓啊為什麼這個人交保幾萬啊那個人交保為什麼幾萬啊站在司法院的角度啦個別法官他們做這些裁定\n148090\t174355\t在司法院裡面現在有什麼機制啊去討論說這個事情在這個法官界他這個裁定怪怪就是有什麼樣的機制啊不管叫做補救啦 或者檢討啦 或者是什麼否則每次看到有人被生壓整群都在外面等 看電視好像在開獎一樣\n176112\t202044\t人民對這件事 現在沒什麼反應 就說大膽的 膽子要不要說 喔 漂亮啦 聰明啦好啦 沒問題啦 跟你說沒問題 就是沒問題這個好像對司法的威信啦 大家都會有質疑呢站在你們司法院的角度啊你們有什麼樣的機制喔 可以讓人民可以認為說好啦 反正你們就守一個規定啦 法官都會照這樣來裁啦你們有什麼機制\n206127\t222766\t謝謝委員其實因為羈押有一定的那個要件那就是說他設可是他很多事項就是說他還有涉及很多那個材料就是除了就是說罪名他會影響之外的話就是說他那些犯罪情節到底\n223727\t243068\t重不重或者說現有那個證據到底是什麼那那個法官除了這些之外他還要考量說每個被告他那個資歷也都不相同那或者是說有些人就是說他跟國外的連結可能就比較多就是說也許小孩就在那個國外國外就是有資產所以可能會那個出去\n243769\t263906\t那所以就是說法院他要裁量那個事情實在是很多就是實在是沒有辦法就是說我們一看這個案件就像剛剛那個就是質詢的有關於那個南京這個案件漏鳥俠他到底要不要那個羈押就是連我們手上沒有看到這個那個證據我們也不清楚說\n264566\t292962\t他呈現的這些事實所涉及的罪名到底是重罪還是那個我知道這個我都懂就是說那我想這個部分呢就是要跟民眾多溝通啊就是說他不是一個法律感情覺得一個人漏鳥了而是說就是要跟民眾多溝通說法院到底是依據什麼樣那個事實然後來決定羈押跟不羈押對是站在司法院的角度啦就是社會總是覺得好像\n294531\t316258\t好像好歹運啊好歹運就是說運氣好運氣不好我為什麼這樣講呢就是常常很多包括律師在評論說這個人被生壓了看起來啊壓定了或者是說最後沒有壓讓他交保了那大家想說啊應該進去什麼都說了啦大家會這樣講說阿記人就都說了啊就給交報啊就都說了啊什麼都經出來啊\n325098\t333071\t然後呢 看起來也不會逃亡啊所以我看 搞不好啦待個這一個電子的監控啊應該是沒什麼問題社會還是會覺得好像要靠運氣\n340031\t363832\t我知道你們的態度就是說法官要綜合很多的考量可是在司法院的角度就這樣就說要不然法官 個別法官或是合意之後決定說就讓他交保或是讓他羈押社會還是會覺得怪怪的你們世界各國都這樣嗎都靠法官 法官說我把你騙就是要把你騙沒有你搞不好就要把你騙 叫你回去 叫你回去\n365100\t371423\t然後我們的司法院就是說在行政上我們也不會去討論這件事情還是怎麼樣我在講的是一個機制或是你們都直接放給法官去用\n380656\t406335\t當然就是說有關於那個有關於那個羈押就是他的要件跟他那個裁量事項就是我們平常就是做那個平常培訓的時候這個當然就都會跟那個法官多溝通那另外就是說現在其實有很多法院他都有那個強制處分庭那強制處分庭就是有關於這些羈押偵查中羈押這些那個申請的他是集中\n407336\t423648\t集中在幾個法官他們所做的那他們的標準就會比較趨於一致譬如說像申請搜索的時候那你是內部趨於一致譬如說台北一致台中一致那台北跟台中會不會一致\n425029\t449452\t照理來說應該也會是這個標準不會差很多的好啦 我是建議你們這個在司法的行政上這件事情可能還要可以看什麼讓人民不會覺得說 哇 每次有人去送鴨怎麼大家幾個人都要看電視 都要等想說靠運氣 然後幾家歡樂 幾家醜有些人開心 有些人不開心\n450475\t478582\t我覺得這樣對司法不好啦第二個 你們提到一個少年事件處理法要把這一個前科叫前案記錄 突銷的這一些事情我們現在很多詐騙集團就把這個年輕人怎麼說公關警你又年輕 你今年國中生嘛你去做車手 如果怎麼樣怎麼樣你領工出來也都沒事這個會跟你們現在這一次要提的這些修法\n480021\t508228\t會有關嗎這個我請那個廳長來說謝謝委員的催省是有關過去升職在所有的學生 家長所有的社會復歸都是突銷現在要有條件的突銷就是要保持善良品性才可以突銷不是啦我是一個15歲的國中生啊我們長大的就叫我去捏錢嘛 當廁所嘛\n509810\t515916\t我們就去念了嘛,我們老大跟我說你年輕的你去,你這樣的環境你現在的未成年啊,到現在都沒事情了他那個去用上課上課的,什麼關乎學校上課的都沒事情,幾年都沒事情,你就這樣了啊這些突銷,我現在看這些突銷會不會讓這些詐騙集團啊跟這些未成年的一起來說你們都不用高興啊,會嗎?\n535583\t538064\t現在這一波我們送進來的修法我們也會廣為對社會教育 學校的教育跟各方面我們都會製作各項的...你不用教育啦 我是說詐騙集團會逮到這個機會說你看啊 你看他通過啦 不用緊張啦\n553371\t557034\t這齁 你捏一捏就去上課上上的捏 對不對換個環境上課而已他要讓你20歲、25歲的時候紀錄都沒了 會這樣嗎不會 因為現在的修法就是你有一個處罰的紀錄 少年那麼輔導完畢這三年內 輔導完畢三年內必須沒有再任何觸犯法律\n578130\t582634\t你15歲 進去 三年後17、15歲都沒紀錄了是不是這樣這個紀錄 原第一次的紀錄如果他三年輔導完畢三年內又再處罰 不會突銷不會 他就沒處罰了\n593422\t597843\t如果都沒處罰會把它突銷 這是為了讓少年復歸社會就能成長對啦 我是說這款作用力就是詐騙集團就跟年輕人說人家的立法院就通過了 現在改了三年你就沒事啦 別怕啦 他也不會有顫抖啦你就去做 去念就對了啦\n612830\t640673\t包括以前是所有少年的處罰紀錄三年滿都塗銷現在是你再處罰不塗銷又留著是這樣所以這個必須讓社會整個翻轉這個概念想法跟法治的一個更新我是說我最後就提醒說這樣的一個塗銷的這個規定恐怕讓這個詐騙集團的老大直接跟小朋友講說你不用擔心立法院就是會幫你們塗銷啦\n642587\t659753\t這立法院都我們立的 連電視報說這年輕人怎麼15歲去當車手 20歲都沒問題因為立法院已經說好了 就給他取消這個有時候要點頭說就是說這件事情可能要特別去注意一下 好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請王副秘書長好 有請王副秘委員早好 剛剛有委員質詢有些東西你可能來不及講 現在讓你講你們那個司法院什麼開會的紀錄啊這個公開不公開這件事情在司法院裡頭的規定是什麼啊等一下我們請廳長\n跟委員報告 其實是依照政府資訊公開法的規定那政府資訊應該要公開的應該是有關政府機關的部分應該是指合議制的機構的會議記錄應該要公開所以因為司法院本身它認為並不是一個合議制的機構所以在依照政府資訊公開法的規定它並沒有一定要公開的情況\n至於司法院已經有將這個院會的會議的決議公開在網頁上那這跟目前行政院院會的公開決議的做法是一致的這是可以補充說就是有決議的部分在公開就決議的事項有加以公開那至於在會議中個別的發言的部分目前是沒有好 所以你們有把握你們現在做法沒有什麼問題\n有沒有把握啦是有把握啦好因為大家五院互相尊重啦這個大家就是司法院到立法院到底要報告什麼這個誰來報告這個大家都不管是規定或者約定俗成這個我們就繼續做第二個剛剛也提到說這個我們現在一般民眾也會認為啊\n奇怪 啊這個人可以交報 啊這個人讓他回去啊這個人給他修啊那這個人很可惡啊 為什麼讓他回家了啊這個人看起來就沒事啊 為什麼要把他要把他積壓啊為什麼這個人交保幾萬啊那個人交保為什麼幾萬啊站在司法院的角度啦個別法官他們做這些裁定\n在司法院裡面現在有什麼機制啊去討論說這個事情在這個法官界他這個裁定怪怪就是有什麼樣的機制啊不管叫做補救啦 或者檢討啦 或者是什麼否則每次看到有人被生壓整群都在外面等 看電視好像在開獎一樣\n人民對這件事 現在沒什麼反應 就說大膽的 膽子要不要說 喔 漂亮啦 聰明啦好啦 沒問題啦 跟你說沒問題 就是沒問題這個好像對司法的威信啦 大家都會有質疑呢站在你們司法院的角度啊你們有什麼樣的機制喔 可以讓人民可以認為說好啦 反正你們就守一個規定啦 法官都會照這樣來裁啦你們有什麼機制\n謝謝委員其實因為羈押有一定的那個要件那就是說他設可是他很多事項就是說他還有涉及很多那個材料就是除了就是說罪名他會影響之外的話就是說他那些犯罪情節到底\n重不重或者說現有那個證據到底是什麼那那個法官除了這些之外他還要考量說每個被告他那個資歷也都不相同那或者是說有些人就是說他跟國外的連結可能就比較多就是說也許小孩就在那個國外國外就是有資產所以可能會那個出去\n那所以就是說法院他要裁量那個事情實在是很多就是實在是沒有辦法就是說我們一看這個案件就像剛剛那個就是質詢的有關於那個南京這個案件漏鳥俠他到底要不要那個羈押就是連我們手上沒有看到這個那個證據我們也不清楚說\n他呈現的這些事實所涉及的罪名到底是重罪還是那個我知道這個我都懂就是說那我想這個部分呢就是要跟民眾多溝通啊就是說他不是一個法律感情覺得一個人漏鳥了而是說就是要跟民眾多溝通說法院到底是依據什麼樣那個事實然後來決定羈押跟不羈押對是站在司法院的角度啦就是社會總是覺得好像\n好像好歹運啊好歹運就是說運氣好運氣不好我為什麼這樣講呢就是常常很多包括律師在評論說這個人被生壓了看起來啊壓定了或者是說最後沒有壓讓他交保了那大家想說啊應該進去什麼都說了啦大家會這樣講說阿記人就都說了啊就給交報啊就都說了啊什麼都經出來啊\n然後呢 看起來也不會逃亡啊所以我看 搞不好啦待個這一個電子的監控啊應該是沒什麼問題社會還是會覺得好像要靠運氣\n我知道你們的態度就是說法官要綜合很多的考量可是在司法院的角度就這樣就說要不然法官 個別法官或是合意之後決定說就讓他交保或是讓他羈押社會還是會覺得怪怪的你們世界各國都這樣嗎都靠法官 法官說我把你騙就是要把你騙沒有你搞不好就要把你騙 叫你回去 叫你回去\n然後我們的司法院就是說在行政上我們也不會去討論這件事情還是怎麼樣我在講的是一個機制或是你們都直接放給法官去用\n當然就是說有關於那個有關於那個羈押就是他的要件跟他那個裁量事項就是我們平常就是做那個平常培訓的時候這個當然就都會跟那個法官多溝通那另外就是說現在其實有很多法院他都有那個強制處分庭那強制處分庭就是有關於這些羈押偵查中羈押這些那個申請的他是集中\n集中在幾個法官他們所做的那他們的標準就會比較趨於一致譬如說像申請搜索的時候那你是內部趨於一致譬如說台北一致台中一致那台北跟台中會不會一致\n照理來說應該也會是這個標準不會差很多的好啦 我是建議你們這個在司法的行政上這件事情可能還要可以看什麼讓人民不會覺得說 哇 每次有人去送鴨怎麼大家幾個人都要看電視 都要等想說靠運氣 然後幾家歡樂 幾家醜有些人開心 有些人不開心\n我覺得這樣對司法不好啦第二個 你們提到一個少年事件處理法要把這一個前科叫前案記錄 突銷的這一些事情我們現在很多詐騙集團就把這個年輕人怎麼說公關警你又年輕 你今年國中生嘛你去做車手 如果怎麼樣怎麼樣你領工出來也都沒事這個會跟你們現在這一次要提的這些修法\n會有關嗎這個我請那個廳長來說謝謝委員的催省是有關過去升職在所有的學生 家長所有的社會復歸都是突銷現在要有條件的突銷就是要保持善良品性才可以突銷不是啦我是一個15歲的國中生啊我們長大的就叫我去捏錢嘛 當廁所嘛\n我們就去念了嘛,我們老大跟我說你年輕的你去,你這樣的環境你現在的未成年啊,到現在都沒事情了他那個去用上課上課的,什麼關乎學校上課的都沒事情,幾年都沒事情,你就這樣了啊這些突銷,我現在看這些突銷會不會讓這些詐騙集團啊跟這些未成年的一起來說你們都不用高興啊,會嗎?\n現在這一波我們送進來的修法我們也會廣為對社會教育 學校的教育跟各方面我們都會製作各項的...你不用教育啦 我是說詐騙集團會逮到這個機會說你看啊 你看他通過啦 不用緊張啦\n這齁 你捏一捏就去上課上上的捏 對不對換個環境上課而已他要讓你20歲、25歲的時候紀錄都沒了 會這樣嗎不會 因為現在的修法就是你有一個處罰的紀錄 少年那麼輔導完畢這三年內 輔導完畢三年內必須沒有再任何觸犯法律\n你15歲 進去 三年後17、15歲都沒紀錄了是不是這樣這個紀錄 原第一次的紀錄如果他三年輔導完畢三年內又再處罰 不會突銷不會 他就沒處罰了\n如果都沒處罰會把它突銷 這是為了讓少年復歸社會就能成長對啦 我是說這款作用力就是詐騙集團就跟年輕人說人家的立法院就通過了 現在改了三年你就沒事啦 別怕啦 他也不會有顫抖啦你就去做 去念就對了啦\n包括以前是所有少年的處罰紀錄三年滿都塗銷現在是你再處罰不塗銷又留著是這樣所以這個必須讓社會整個翻轉這個概念想法跟法治的一個更新我是說我最後就提醒說這樣的一個塗銷的這個規定恐怕讓這個詐騙集團的老大直接跟小朋友講說你不用擔心立法院就是會幫你們塗銷啦\n這立法院都我們立的 連電視報說這年輕人怎麼15歲去當車手 20歲都沒問題因為立法院已經說好了 就給他取消這個有時候要點頭說就是說這件事情可能要特別去注意一下 好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.087 --> 00:27.164\n好謝謝主席我們請王副秘書長好有請王副秘委員早好剛剛有委員質詢有些東西你可能來不及講現在讓你講你們那個司法院什麼開會的紀錄啊這個公開不公開這件事情在司法院裡頭的規定是什麼啊等一下我們請廳長\n\n00:37.584 --> 01:00.577\n跟委員報告其實是依照政府資訊公開法的規定那政府資訊應該要公開的應該是有關政府機關的部分應該是指合議制的機構的會議記錄應該要公開所以因為司法院本身它認為並不是一個合議制的機構所以在依照政府資訊公開法的規定它並沒有一定要公開的情況\n\n01:01.878 --> 01:25.515\n至於司法院已經有將這個院會的會議的決議公開在網頁上那這跟目前行政院院會的公開決議的做法是一致的這是可以補充說就是有決議的部分在公開就決議的事項有加以公開那至於在會議中個別的發言的部分目前是沒有好所以你們有把握你們現在做法沒有什麼問題\n\n01:34.014 --> 01:58.194\n有沒有把握啦是有把握啦好因為大家五院互相尊重啦這個大家就是司法院到立法院到底要報告什麼這個誰來報告這個大家都不管是規定或者約定俗成這個我們就繼續做第二個剛剛也提到說這個我們現在一般民眾也會認為啊\n\n01:59.659 --> 02:26.470\n奇怪啊這個人可以交報啊這個人讓他回去啊這個人給他修啊那這個人很可惡啊為什麼讓他回家了啊這個人看起來就沒事啊為什麼要把他要把他積壓啊為什麼這個人交保幾萬啊那個人交保為什麼幾萬啊站在司法院的角度啦個別法官他們做這些裁定\n\n02:28.090 --> 02:54.355\n在司法院裡面現在有什麼機制啊去討論說這個事情在這個法官界他這個裁定怪怪就是有什麼樣的機制啊不管叫做補救啦或者檢討啦或者是什麼否則每次看到有人被生壓整群都在外面等看電視好像在開獎一樣\n\n02:56.112 --> 03:22.044\n人民對這件事現在沒什麼反應就說大膽的膽子要不要說喔漂亮啦聰明啦好啦沒問題啦跟你說沒問題就是沒問題這個好像對司法的威信啦大家都會有質疑呢站在你們司法院的角度啊你們有什麼樣的機制喔可以讓人民可以認為說好啦反正你們就守一個規定啦法官都會照這樣來裁啦你們有什麼機制\n\n03:26.127 --> 03:42.766\n謝謝委員其實因為羈押有一定的那個要件那就是說他設可是他很多事項就是說他還有涉及很多那個材料就是除了就是說罪名他會影響之外的話就是說他那些犯罪情節到底\n\n03:43.727 --> 04:03.068\n重不重或者說現有那個證據到底是什麼那那個法官除了這些之外他還要考量說每個被告他那個資歷也都不相同那或者是說有些人就是說他跟國外的連結可能就比較多就是說也許小孩就在那個國外國外就是有資產所以可能會那個出去\n\n04:03.769 --> 04:23.906\n那所以就是說法院他要裁量那個事情實在是很多就是實在是沒有辦法就是說我們一看這個案件就像剛剛那個就是質詢的有關於那個南京這個案件漏鳥俠他到底要不要那個羈押就是連我們手上沒有看到這個那個證據我們也不清楚說\n\n04:24.566 --> 04:52.962\n他呈現的這些事實所涉及的罪名到底是重罪還是那個我知道這個我都懂就是說那我想這個部分呢就是要跟民眾多溝通啊就是說他不是一個法律感情覺得一個人漏鳥了而是說就是要跟民眾多溝通說法院到底是依據什麼樣那個事實然後來決定羈押跟不羈押對是站在司法院的角度啦就是社會總是覺得好像\n\n04:54.531 --> 05:16.258\n好像好歹運啊好歹運就是說運氣好運氣不好我為什麼這樣講呢就是常常很多包括律師在評論說這個人被生壓了看起來啊壓定了或者是說最後沒有壓讓他交保了那大家想說啊應該進去什麼都說了啦大家會這樣講說阿記人就都說了啊就給交報啊就都說了啊什麼都經出來啊\n\n05:25.098 --> 05:33.071\n然後呢看起來也不會逃亡啊所以我看搞不好啦待個這一個電子的監控啊應該是沒什麼問題社會還是會覺得好像要靠運氣\n\n05:40.031 --> 06:03.832\n我知道你們的態度就是說法官要綜合很多的考量可是在司法院的角度就這樣就說要不然法官個別法官或是合意之後決定說就讓他交保或是讓他羈押社會還是會覺得怪怪的你們世界各國都這樣嗎都靠法官法官說我把你騙就是要把你騙沒有你搞不好就要把你騙叫你回去叫你回去\n\n06:05.100 --> 06:11.423\n然後我們的司法院就是說在行政上我們也不會去討論這件事情還是怎麼樣我在講的是一個機制或是你們都直接放給法官去用\n\n06:20.656 --> 06:46.335\n當然就是說有關於那個有關於那個羈押就是他的要件跟他那個裁量事項就是我們平常就是做那個平常培訓的時候這個當然就都會跟那個法官多溝通那另外就是說現在其實有很多法院他都有那個強制處分庭那強制處分庭就是有關於這些羈押偵查中羈押這些那個申請的他是集中\n\n06:47.336 --> 07:03.648\n集中在幾個法官他們所做的那他們的標準就會比較趨於一致譬如說像申請搜索的時候那你是內部趨於一致譬如說台北一致台中一致那台北跟台中會不會一致\n\n07:05.029 --> 07:29.452\n照理來說應該也會是這個標準不會差很多的好啦我是建議你們這個在司法的行政上這件事情可能還要可以看什麼讓人民不會覺得說哇每次有人去送鴨怎麼大家幾個人都要看電視都要等想說靠運氣然後幾家歡樂幾家醜有些人開心有些人不開心\n\n07:30.475 --> 07:58.582\n我覺得這樣對司法不好啦第二個你們提到一個少年事件處理法要把這一個前科叫前案記錄突銷的這一些事情我們現在很多詐騙集團就把這個年輕人怎麼說公關警你又年輕你今年國中生嘛你去做車手如果怎麼樣怎麼樣你領工出來也都沒事這個會跟你們現在這一次要提的這些修法\n\n08:00.021 --> 08:28.228\n會有關嗎這個我請那個廳長來說謝謝委員的催省是有關過去升職在所有的學生家長所有的社會復歸都是突銷現在要有條件的突銷就是要保持善良品性才可以突銷不是啦我是一個15歲的國中生啊我們長大的就叫我去捏錢嘛當廁所嘛\n\n08:29.810 --> 08:35.916\n我們就去念了嘛,我們老大跟我說你年輕的你去,你這樣的環境你現在的未成年啊,到現在都沒事情了他那個去用上課上課的,什麼關乎學校上課的都沒事情,幾年都沒事情,你就這樣了啊這些突銷,我現在看這些突銷會不會讓這些詐騙集團啊跟這些未成年的一起來說你們都不用高興啊,會嗎?\n\n08:55.583 --> 08:58.064\n現在這一波我們送進來的修法我們也會廣為對社會教育學校的教育跟各方面我們都會製作各項的...你不用教育啦我是說詐騙集團會逮到這個機會說你看啊你看他通過啦不用緊張啦\n\n09:13.371 --> 09:17.034\n這齁你捏一捏就去上課上上的捏對不對換個環境上課而已他要讓你20歲、25歲的時候紀錄都沒了會這樣嗎不會因為現在的修法就是你有一個處罰的紀錄少年那麼輔導完畢這三年內輔導完畢三年內必須沒有再任何觸犯法律\n\n09:38.130 --> 09:42.634\n你15歲進去三年後17、15歲都沒紀錄了是不是這樣這個紀錄原第一次的紀錄如果他三年輔導完畢三年內又再處罰不會突銷不會他就沒處罰了\n\n09:53.422 --> 09:57.843\n如果都沒處罰會把它突銷這是為了讓少年復歸社會就能成長對啦我是說這款作用力就是詐騙集團就跟年輕人說人家的立法院就通過了現在改了三年你就沒事啦別怕啦他也不會有顫抖啦你就去做去念就對了啦\n\n10:12.830 --> 10:40.673\n包括以前是所有少年的處罰紀錄三年滿都塗銷現在是你再處罰不塗銷又留著是這樣所以這個必須讓社會整個翻轉這個概念想法跟法治的一個更新我是說我最後就提醒說這樣的一個塗銷的這個規定恐怕讓這個詐騙集團的老大直接跟小朋友講說你不用擔心立法院就是會幫你們塗銷啦\n\n10:42.587 --> 10:59.753\n這立法院都我們立的連電視報說這年輕人怎麼15歲去當車手20歲都沒問題因為立法院已經說好了就給他取消這個有時候要點頭說就是說這件事情可能要特別去注意一下好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.087,"end":27.164,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請王副秘書長好 有請王副秘委員早好 剛剛有委員質詢有些東西你可能來不及講 現在讓你講你們那個司法院什麼開會的紀錄啊這個公開不公開這件事情在司法院裡頭的規定是什麼啊等一下我們請廳長"},{"start":37.584,"end":60.577,"text":"跟委員報告 其實是依照政府資訊公開法的規定那政府資訊應該要公開的應該是有關政府機關的部分應該是指合議制的機構的會議記錄應該要公開所以因為司法院本身它認為並不是一個合議制的機構所以在依照政府資訊公開法的規定它並沒有一定要公開的情況"},{"start":61.878,"end":85.515,"text":"至於司法院已經有將這個院會的會議的決議公開在網頁上那這跟目前行政院院會的公開決議的做法是一致的這是可以補充說就是有決議的部分在公開就決議的事項有加以公開那至於在會議中個別的發言的部分目前是沒有好 所以你們有把握你們現在做法沒有什麼問題"},{"start":94.014,"end":118.194,"text":"有沒有把握啦是有把握啦好因為大家五院互相尊重啦這個大家就是司法院到立法院到底要報告什麼這個誰來報告這個大家都不管是規定或者約定俗成這個我們就繼續做第二個剛剛也提到說這個我們現在一般民眾也會認為啊"},{"start":119.659,"end":146.47,"text":"奇怪 啊這個人可以交報 啊這個人讓他回去啊這個人給他修啊那這個人很可惡啊 為什麼讓他回家了啊這個人看起來就沒事啊 為什麼要把他要把他積壓啊為什麼這個人交保幾萬啊那個人交保為什麼幾萬啊站在司法院的角度啦個別法官他們做這些裁定"},{"start":148.09,"end":174.355,"text":"在司法院裡面現在有什麼機制啊去討論說這個事情在這個法官界他這個裁定怪怪就是有什麼樣的機制啊不管叫做補救啦 或者檢討啦 或者是什麼否則每次看到有人被生壓整群都在外面等 看電視好像在開獎一樣"},{"start":176.112,"end":202.044,"text":"人民對這件事 現在沒什麼反應 就說大膽的 膽子要不要說 喔 漂亮啦 聰明啦好啦 沒問題啦 跟你說沒問題 就是沒問題這個好像對司法的威信啦 大家都會有質疑呢站在你們司法院的角度啊你們有什麼樣的機制喔 可以讓人民可以認為說好啦 反正你們就守一個規定啦 法官都會照這樣來裁啦你們有什麼機制"},{"start":206.127,"end":222.766,"text":"謝謝委員其實因為羈押有一定的那個要件那就是說他設可是他很多事項就是說他還有涉及很多那個材料就是除了就是說罪名他會影響之外的話就是說他那些犯罪情節到底"},{"start":223.727,"end":243.068,"text":"重不重或者說現有那個證據到底是什麼那那個法官除了這些之外他還要考量說每個被告他那個資歷也都不相同那或者是說有些人就是說他跟國外的連結可能就比較多就是說也許小孩就在那個國外國外就是有資產所以可能會那個出去"},{"start":243.769,"end":263.906,"text":"那所以就是說法院他要裁量那個事情實在是很多就是實在是沒有辦法就是說我們一看這個案件就像剛剛那個就是質詢的有關於那個南京這個案件漏鳥俠他到底要不要那個羈押就是連我們手上沒有看到這個那個證據我們也不清楚說"},{"start":264.566,"end":292.962,"text":"他呈現的這些事實所涉及的罪名到底是重罪還是那個我知道這個我都懂就是說那我想這個部分呢就是要跟民眾多溝通啊就是說他不是一個法律感情覺得一個人漏鳥了而是說就是要跟民眾多溝通說法院到底是依據什麼樣那個事實然後來決定羈押跟不羈押對是站在司法院的角度啦就是社會總是覺得好像"},{"start":294.531,"end":316.258,"text":"好像好歹運啊好歹運就是說運氣好運氣不好我為什麼這樣講呢就是常常很多包括律師在評論說這個人被生壓了看起來啊壓定了或者是說最後沒有壓讓他交保了那大家想說啊應該進去什麼都說了啦大家會這樣講說阿記人就都說了啊就給交報啊就都說了啊什麼都經出來啊"},{"start":325.098,"end":333.071,"text":"然後呢 看起來也不會逃亡啊所以我看 搞不好啦待個這一個電子的監控啊應該是沒什麼問題社會還是會覺得好像要靠運氣"},{"start":340.031,"end":363.832,"text":"我知道你們的態度就是說法官要綜合很多的考量可是在司法院的角度就這樣就說要不然法官 個別法官或是合意之後決定說就讓他交保或是讓他羈押社會還是會覺得怪怪的你們世界各國都這樣嗎都靠法官 法官說我把你騙就是要把你騙沒有你搞不好就要把你騙 叫你回去 叫你回去"},{"start":365.1,"end":371.423,"text":"然後我們的司法院就是說在行政上我們也不會去討論這件事情還是怎麼樣我在講的是一個機制或是你們都直接放給法官去用"},{"start":380.656,"end":406.335,"text":"當然就是說有關於那個有關於那個羈押就是他的要件跟他那個裁量事項就是我們平常就是做那個平常培訓的時候這個當然就都會跟那個法官多溝通那另外就是說現在其實有很多法院他都有那個強制處分庭那強制處分庭就是有關於這些羈押偵查中羈押這些那個申請的他是集中"},{"start":407.336,"end":423.648,"text":"集中在幾個法官他們所做的那他們的標準就會比較趨於一致譬如說像申請搜索的時候那你是內部趨於一致譬如說台北一致台中一致那台北跟台中會不會一致"},{"start":425.029,"end":449.452,"text":"照理來說應該也會是這個標準不會差很多的好啦 我是建議你們這個在司法的行政上這件事情可能還要可以看什麼讓人民不會覺得說 哇 每次有人去送鴨怎麼大家幾個人都要看電視 都要等想說靠運氣 然後幾家歡樂 幾家醜有些人開心 有些人不開心"},{"start":450.475,"end":478.582,"text":"我覺得這樣對司法不好啦第二個 你們提到一個少年事件處理法要把這一個前科叫前案記錄 突銷的這一些事情我們現在很多詐騙集團就把這個年輕人怎麼說公關警你又年輕 你今年國中生嘛你去做車手 如果怎麼樣怎麼樣你領工出來也都沒事這個會跟你們現在這一次要提的這些修法"},{"start":480.021,"end":508.228,"text":"會有關嗎這個我請那個廳長來說謝謝委員的催省是有關過去升職在所有的學生 家長所有的社會復歸都是突銷現在要有條件的突銷就是要保持善良品性才可以突銷不是啦我是一個15歲的國中生啊我們長大的就叫我去捏錢嘛 當廁所嘛"},{"start":509.81,"end":515.916,"text":"我們就去念了嘛,我們老大跟我說你年輕的你去,你這樣的環境你現在的未成年啊,到現在都沒事情了他那個去用上課上課的,什麼關乎學校上課的都沒事情,幾年都沒事情,你就這樣了啊這些突銷,我現在看這些突銷會不會讓這些詐騙集團啊跟這些未成年的一起來說你們都不用高興啊,會嗎?"},{"start":535.583,"end":538.064,"text":"現在這一波我們送進來的修法我們也會廣為對社會教育 學校的教育跟各方面我們都會製作各項的...你不用教育啦 我是說詐騙集團會逮到這個機會說你看啊 你看他通過啦 不用緊張啦"},{"start":553.371,"end":557.034,"text":"這齁 你捏一捏就去上課上上的捏 對不對換個環境上課而已他要讓你20歲、25歲的時候紀錄都沒了 會這樣嗎不會 因為現在的修法就是你有一個處罰的紀錄 少年那麼輔導完畢這三年內 輔導完畢三年內必須沒有再任何觸犯法律"},{"start":578.13,"end":582.634,"text":"你15歲 進去 三年後17、15歲都沒紀錄了是不是這樣這個紀錄 原第一次的紀錄如果他三年輔導完畢三年內又再處罰 不會突銷不會 他就沒處罰了"},{"start":593.422,"end":597.843,"text":"如果都沒處罰會把它突銷 這是為了讓少年復歸社會就能成長對啦 我是說這款作用力就是詐騙集團就跟年輕人說人家的立法院就通過了 現在改了三年你就沒事啦 別怕啦 他也不會有顫抖啦你就去做 去念就對了啦"},{"start":612.83,"end":640.673,"text":"包括以前是所有少年的處罰紀錄三年滿都塗銷現在是你再處罰不塗銷又留著是這樣所以這個必須讓社會整個翻轉這個概念想法跟法治的一個更新我是說我最後就提醒說這樣的一個塗銷的這個規定恐怕讓這個詐騙集團的老大直接跟小朋友講說你不用擔心立法院就是會幫你們塗銷啦"},{"start":642.587,"end":659.753,"text":"這立法院都我們立的 連電視報說這年輕人怎麼15歲去當車手 20歲都沒問題因為立法院已經說好了 就給他取消這個有時候要點頭說就是說這件事情可能要特別去注意一下 好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":448,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（10時37分）謝謝主席。我們請王副秘書長，謝謝。"],["主席：有請王副秘。"],["王副秘書長梅英：委員早。"],["王委員義川：剛剛有委員質詢，有些東西你可能來不及講，現在讓你講。你們司法院的開會紀錄公開不公開，這件事情在司法院裡頭的規定是什麼？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我請廳長來說明。"],["吳廳長祚丞：跟委員報告，其實依照政府資訊公開法的規定，政府資訊應該要公開的是，有關政府機關的部分是指合議制機構的會議紀錄應該要公開。因為司法院本身並不是合議制的機構，所以依照政府資訊公開法的規定，並沒有一定要公開的情況。不過司法院已經有將院會會議的決議公開在網頁上，這跟目前行政院院會公開決議的做法是一致的。以上補充說明。"],["王委員義川：就是有決議的部分再公開？"],["吳廳長祚丞：就決議的事項有加以公開，至於在會議中個別發言的部分目前是沒有。"],["王委員義川：好，所以你們有把握你們現在的做法沒有什麼問題啦？","我是說有沒有把握啦！"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["王委員義川：有把握啦！"],["王副秘書長梅英：對。"],["王委員義川：因為五院互相尊重，司法院到立法院到底要報告什麼？誰來報告？不管是規定或者是約定俗成，我們就繼續做。","第二個，剛剛也提到現在一般民眾也會認為：奇怪，這個怎麼能交保？這個怎麼讓他回去？這個怎麼會收押？這個人很可惡啊，為什麼讓他回家了？這個人看起來就沒事啊，為什麼要把他羈押？為什麼這個人交保幾萬？那個人交保又為什麼幾萬？站在司法院的角度，個別法官他們作這些裁定，你們現在有什麼機制去討論這個事情？比如在法官界認為如果這個裁定怪怪的，有什麼樣的機制，不管是補救或者檢討或者是什麼？否則每次看到有人被聲押，有整群人在外面等、看電視，好像在開講一樣，人民對這個事情有時候會不太滿意，那些人在那裡等，等到最後有人說：「漂亮啦！羈押啦！」或是「好啦！沒事情了，跟你說沒事就是沒事」，類似這些狀況好像對司法的威信，大家都會有所質疑，站在司法院的角度，你們有什麼樣的機制讓人民可以認為好啦，反正你們就是有一個規定，法官都會照這樣來裁定，你們有什麼機制？"],["王副秘書長梅英：謝謝委員，因為羈押有一定的要件，可是很多事項還有涉及很多裁量，除了罪名會影響之外，那些犯罪情節到底重不重或是現有的證據到底是什麼，法官除了這些之外，他還有考量每個被告的資力也都不相同，或者是有些人跟國外的連結可能比較多，也許小孩就在國外，國外就是有資產，可能會出去。所以法院要裁量的事情實在是很多，實在是沒有辦法一看到這個案件……就像剛剛質詢有關於南京三民站露鳥俠的這個案件，他到底要不要羈押，連我們手上沒有看到那個證據，我們也不清楚他呈現的這些事實所涉及的罪名到底是重罪還是輕罪……"],["王委員義川：我知道，這個我都懂，就是說……"],["王副秘書長梅英：我想這個部分就是要跟民眾多溝通，它不是一個法律感情，覺得一個人露鳥了，而是要跟民眾多溝通法院到底是依據什麼樣的事實來決定羈押或不羈押。"],["王委員義川：可是站在司法院的角度……"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["王委員義川：社會總是覺得好像是看好運或壞運，就是運氣好、運氣不好，我為什麼這樣講呢？常常很多包括律師在評論說這個人被聲押，看起來押定了，或者是最後沒有押，讓他交保了，大家就會認為應該進去什麼都說了啦，大家會這樣講，既然都講了，就讓他交保，反正都講了，什麼都逼出來了，看起來也不會逃亡，所以我看讓他交保好了，戴個電子監控，應該是沒什麼問題，社會還是會覺得好像要靠運氣。我知道你們的態度就是法官要綜合很多的考量，可是站在司法院的角度雖是這樣，認為不管是個別法官還是合議之後才決定讓他交保或者讓他羈押，但社會還是會覺得怪怪的，世界各國都是這樣嗎？都靠法官，法官說我要押你就是要押你，要給你交保就是給你交保，要叫你回去就叫你回去。我們的司法院在行政上也不會去討論這件事情還是怎麼樣？我在講的是一個機制，還是你們就直接交給法官去處理？"],["王副秘書長梅英：當然有關於羈押要件跟它的裁量事項，我們平常做培訓的時候，當然都會跟法官多溝通。另外，現在其實有很多法院都有強制處分庭，強制處分庭就是有關於偵查中羈押的聲請，它是集中在幾個法院、幾個法官他們所做的，他們的標準就會比較趨於一致，譬如像聲請搜索的時候……"],["王委員義川：對，那你是內部趨於一致嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：對。"],["王委員義川：譬如臺北一致、臺中一致？"],["王副秘書長梅英：對。"],["王委員義川：臺北跟臺中會不會一致？"],["王副秘書長梅英：照理來說，應該也會是，這個標準不會差很多的。"],["王委員義川：好啦，我是建議你們在司法行政上這件事情可能還要看怎麼讓人民不會覺得每次如果有人可能被聲押，就有整群人在看電視、在那邊等，好像都是靠運氣，然後幾家歡樂幾家愁，有些人開心，有些人不開心，我覺得這樣對司法不好啦。","第二個，你們提到一個少年事件處理法要把前科、前案紀錄塗銷的這一件事情，我們現在很多詐騙集團就跟年輕人說：反正你還年輕，今年是國中生，去當車手如果怎樣了，改天出來也會沒事。這個跟你們現在這一次要提的這些修法會有關嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我請廳長來說明一下。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：謝謝委員的垂詢，是有關，過去深植在所有的學生、家長，認為所有的社會復歸都是塗銷，現在要有條件的塗銷，就是要保持善良品性才可以塗銷。"],["王委員義川：假設我是一個15歲的國中生，我的老大叫我去領錢、當車手，我就去領了，我老大跟我說：年輕人你去，領一領，反正你現在未成年，到時候都沒事，去觀護學校上個課都沒事，幾年之後都沒事，你就是大哥了。但我現在講的這些塗銷會不會讓這些詐騙集團直接跟未成年人說：你們都不用煩惱了。會嗎？"],["鍾廳長宗霖：現在這一波我們送進來的修法，我們也會廣為對社會教育、學校教育，跟各方面我們都會製作各項……"],["王委員義川：你不用教育啦，我是說詐騙集團剛好逮到這個機會說：你看，立法院通過了，不用緊張啦，你們領錢領一領就去上課而已，對不對？換個環境上課而已，以後你20歲、25歲的時候紀錄都沒了。會這樣嗎？"],["鍾廳長宗霖：不會，因為現在的修法就是少年有一個觸法的紀錄，輔導完畢三年內必須沒有再觸犯任何法律。"],["王委員義川：對，你們是15歲進去還要三年後，25歲都沒有紀錄了啊，不是這樣嗎？"],["鍾廳長宗霖：這個原第一次的紀錄如果他三年輔導完畢，三年內又再觸法，不會塗銷……"],["王委員義川：不是，他就沒觸法了。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：如果都沒觸法會把他塗銷，這是為了讓少年復歸社會、健全成長。"],["王委員義川：對啦，我是說這個反作用力就是詐騙集團會跟年輕人說：立法院通過了，現在改為三年後，你就沒事了啦，不用怕，以後不會有前科啦，你就去做、去領就對了啦。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：報告委員，以前是所有少年的觸法紀錄三年滿都塗銷，現在是你再觸法不塗銷、留著，是這樣，所以這個必須讓社會整個翻轉概念想法和法制的更新。"],["王委員義川：好，我最後提醒，這樣塗銷的過程恐怕讓詐騙集團的老大直接跟小朋友講說你不用擔心，立法院就是會幫你們塗銷，這些立法改天都是我們立的，改天電視就報導說年輕人15歲去做車手，25歲都沒事，因為立法院已經說好了把他塗銷，這種狀況有時候反而會顛倒是非，這件事情可能要特別去注意一下，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。","接下來我們請陳培瑜委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":110,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-4","speakers":["翁曉玲","黃國昌","羅智強","吳宗憲","王鴻薇","沈發惠","王義川","陳培瑜","吳思瑤","林倩綺","張啓楷","林國成","莊瑞雄","賴惠員","傅崐萁"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148801_00002"}}}