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{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 272.328, \"end\": 272.348, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 274.707, \"end\": 274.727, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,629 --> 00:00:21,520\n主席有請工部長跟水利署黃副署長好我們請兩位署長你要上台的時候主席台對對謝謝部長好我們先看一段影片\n\n2\n00:00:31,584 --> 00:01:00,513\n沒有聲音沒有聲音沒有聲音OK好沒關係這沒有聲音這是我前天去獅子鄉也就是豐港溪流域鄰近的族人在做抗議抗議最主要的訴求是希望能夠遠離雞屎味希望不要再河床種植西瓜後來我們去了那個地方以後發現有四個違法的明顯違法的事實第一個是使用生雞糞\n\n3\n00:01:01,613 --> 00:01:26,827\n第二个是撕屁道路第三个是破坏河体第四个是在河床上新建铁皮屋所以我想请问我们副作地方政府是否长期纵容业者违反县府的规范在未登陆地或者是野稀全责不清的区域违法种植导致环境污染数十年然后这是系统性的执法失灵还是行政怠惰\n\n4\n00:01:27,507 --> 00:01:46,819\n报告委员这个案件我们有掌握那这个是县政府管理的河川那在委员这个积极的关切之下呢我们其实已经有跟县政府这边积极来督促他们赶快来做处理所以他目前要进行裁判是将近大概是新台币\n\n5\n00:01:48,035 --> 00:02:15,715\n两万五到五十万元之间不过这是将进行采访可是我们主任的诉求是说希望能够就它违法的部分如果是确实违法的话它应该是按照我们78条之一种西瓜使用生鸡粪饮水都需许可违规可撤销然后91条之二就是说以违反许可内容使用的时候可以废止取租约朝这个方向来是我们会来努力OK\n\n6\n00:02:16,235 --> 00:02:39,874\n那现在根据空污法的裁罚他大概也只有罚到五千到十万左右所以对业者来讲可能是一个不是很痛痒的一个裁罚那现在主任有一个明确的诉求就是说他不要任何的补偿金只要将违反乱纪或者是未申请种植西瓜的业主呢予以撤销他的种植证照我先给你看一下大概第四张\n\n7\n00:02:40,854 --> 00:02:45,591\n它违法的区域有这么宽我们到了这个地区的时候\n\n8\n00:02:46,604 --> 00:03:13,751\n发现它也不是七分署管也不是水利署管也不是原民会管这个等于是真空地带那后来问国产署说国产署总是你们的财产吧因为按照我们现在国有财产法第二条规定凡不属于私有或地方所有的财产均是为国有财产可是这个地区是没有经过许可也没有经过登记也没有去申请合法的租约可是这个区块是我们\n\n9\n00:03:14,511 --> 00:03:40,010\n眼睛看到大概十个足球场那么大那你说这样一个区域是就在部落旁边这个他们常常为了规避这些选举他们大概都是半夜或者是大概将近昨天看到的那个选举的民众选举是9点22分在他们村庄那个line上面说就开始飘那个浓浓的鸡屎味也就是说他们利用这个投机取巧的方式来\n\n10\n00:03:40,529 --> 00:04:07,305\n来放这个生机份所以他们希望能够明确的可以终止他们这个租约或者是终止执照好不好是报告委员我们会来经济协调县政府赶快来做处置对而且这个属于我们传统领域是涉布利西一个传统领域在1893年曾经发生过援汉的一个冲突造成四个人死亡已经过了100多年133年到目前为止那个区块我们认定它是我们排汉族的传统领域\n\n11\n00:04:07,705 --> 00:04:32,348\n所以就使用這個土地來講應該縣政府在這個要種植西瓜之前應該請業者跟我們鄰近的部落做一個諮商同意權也就是落實原基法第21條的規定可以嗎是我們會來努力好那我就希望經濟部在能不能在兩週內提出我們是不是可以撤銷許可中止租業或非止租業的一個\n\n12\n00:04:34,707 --> 00:04:34,727\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n629\t21520\t主席有請工部長跟水利署黃副署長好我們請兩位署長你要上台的時候主席台對對謝謝部長好我們先看一段影片\n31584\t60513\t沒有聲音沒有聲音沒有聲音 OK好 沒關係 這沒有聲音這是我前天去獅子鄉也就是豐港溪流域鄰近的族人在做抗議抗議最主要的訴求是希望能夠遠離雞屎味希望不要再河床種植西瓜後來我們去了那個地方以後發現有四個違法的明顯違法的事實第一個是使用生雞糞\n61613\t86827\t第二个是撕屁道路第三个是破坏河体第四个是在河床上新建铁皮屋所以我想请问我们副作地方政府是否长期纵容业者违反县府的规范在未登陆地或者是野稀全责不清的区域违法种植导致环境污染数十年然后这是系统性的执法失灵还是行政怠惰\n87507\t106819\t报告委员这个案件我们有掌握那这个是县政府管理的河川那在委员这个积极的关切之下呢我们其实已经有跟县政府这边积极来督促他们赶快来做处理所以他目前要进行裁判是将近大概是新台币\n108035\t135715\t两万五到五十万元之间不过这是将进行采访可是我们主任的诉求是说希望能够就它违法的部分如果是确实违法的话它应该是按照我们78条之一种西瓜使用生鸡粪饮水都需许可违规可撤销然后91条之二就是说以违反许可内容使用的时候可以废止取租约朝这个方向来是我们会来努力OK\n136235\t159874\t那现在根据空污法的裁罚他大概也只有罚到五千到十万左右所以对业者来讲可能是一个不是很痛痒的一个裁罚那现在主任有一个明确的诉求就是说他不要任何的补偿金只要将违反乱纪或者是未申请种植西瓜的业主呢予以撤销他的种植证照我先给你看一下大概第四张\n160854\t165591\t它违法的区域有这么宽我们到了这个地区的时候\n166604\t193751\t发现它也不是七分署管也不是水利署管也不是原民会管这个等于是真空地带那后来问国产署说国产署总是你们的财产吧因为按照我们现在国有财产法第二条规定凡不属于私有或地方所有的财产均是为国有财产可是这个地区是没有经过许可也没有经过登记也没有去申请合法的租约可是这个区块是我们\n194511\t220010\t眼睛看到大概十个足球场那么大那你说这样一个区域是就在部落旁边这个他们常常为了规避这些选举他们大概都是半夜或者是大概将近昨天看到的那个选举的民众选举是9点22分在他们村庄那个line上面说就开始飘那个浓浓的鸡屎味也就是说他们利用这个投机取巧的方式来\n220529\t247305\t来放这个生机份所以他们希望能够明确的可以终止他们这个租约或者是终止执照好不好是 报告委员我们会来经济协调县政府赶快来做处置对 而且这个属于我们传统领域是涉布利西一个传统领域在1893年曾经发生过援汉的一个冲突造成四个人死亡已经过了100多年133年到目前为止那个区块我们认定它是我们排汉族的传统领域\n247705\t272348\t所以就使用這個土地來講應該縣政府在這個要種植西瓜之前應該請業者跟我們鄰近的部落做一個諮商同意權也就是落實原基法第21條的規定可以嗎是 我們會來努力好 那我就希望經濟部在能不能在兩週內提出我們是不是可以撤銷許可中止租業或非止租業的一個\n274707\t274727\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席有請工部長跟水利署黃副署長好我們請兩位署長你要上台的時候主席台對對謝謝部長好我們先看一段影片\n沒有聲音沒有聲音沒有聲音 OK好 沒關係 這沒有聲音這是我前天去獅子鄉也就是豐港溪流域鄰近的族人在做抗議抗議最主要的訴求是希望能夠遠離雞屎味希望不要再河床種植西瓜後來我們去了那個地方以後發現有四個違法的明顯違法的事實第一個是使用生雞糞\n第二个是撕屁道路第三个是破坏河体第四个是在河床上新建铁皮屋所以我想请问我们副作地方政府是否长期纵容业者违反县府的规范在未登陆地或者是野稀全责不清的区域违法种植导致环境污染数十年然后这是系统性的执法失灵还是行政怠惰\n报告委员这个案件我们有掌握那这个是县政府管理的河川那在委员这个积极的关切之下呢我们其实已经有跟县政府这边积极来督促他们赶快来做处理所以他目前要进行裁判是将近大概是新台币\n两万五到五十万元之间不过这是将进行采访可是我们主任的诉求是说希望能够就它违法的部分如果是确实违法的话它应该是按照我们78条之一种西瓜使用生鸡粪饮水都需许可违规可撤销然后91条之二就是说以违反许可内容使用的时候可以废止取租约朝这个方向来是我们会来努力OK\n那现在根据空污法的裁罚他大概也只有罚到五千到十万左右所以对业者来讲可能是一个不是很痛痒的一个裁罚那现在主任有一个明确的诉求就是说他不要任何的补偿金只要将违反乱纪或者是未申请种植西瓜的业主呢予以撤销他的种植证照我先给你看一下大概第四张\n它违法的区域有这么宽我们到了这个地区的时候\n发现它也不是七分署管也不是水利署管也不是原民会管这个等于是真空地带那后来问国产署说国产署总是你们的财产吧因为按照我们现在国有财产法第二条规定凡不属于私有或地方所有的财产均是为国有财产可是这个地区是没有经过许可也没有经过登记也没有去申请合法的租约可是这个区块是我们\n眼睛看到大概十个足球场那么大那你说这样一个区域是就在部落旁边这个他们常常为了规避这些选举他们大概都是半夜或者是大概将近昨天看到的那个选举的民众选举是9点22分在他们村庄那个line上面说就开始飘那个浓浓的鸡屎味也就是说他们利用这个投机取巧的方式来\n来放这个生机份所以他们希望能够明确的可以终止他们这个租约或者是终止执照好不好是 报告委员我们会来经济协调县政府赶快来做处置对 而且这个属于我们传统领域是涉布利西一个传统领域在1893年曾经发生过援汉的一个冲突造成四个人死亡已经过了100多年133年到目前为止那个区块我们认定它是我们排汉族的传统领域\n所以就使用這個土地來講應該縣政府在這個要種植西瓜之前應該請業者跟我們鄰近的部落做一個諮商同意權也就是落實原基法第21條的規定可以嗎是 我們會來努力好 那我就希望經濟部在能不能在兩週內提出我們是不是可以撤銷許可中止租業或非止租業的一個\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.629 --> 00:21.520\n主席有請工部長跟水利署黃副署長好我們請兩位署長你要上台的時候主席台對對謝謝部長好我們先看一段影片\n\n00:31.584 --> 01:00.513\n沒有聲音沒有聲音沒有聲音OK好沒關係這沒有聲音這是我前天去獅子鄉也就是豐港溪流域鄰近的族人在做抗議抗議最主要的訴求是希望能夠遠離雞屎味希望不要再河床種植西瓜後來我們去了那個地方以後發現有四個違法的明顯違法的事實第一個是使用生雞糞\n\n01:01.613 --> 01:26.827\n第二个是撕屁道路第三个是破坏河体第四个是在河床上新建铁皮屋所以我想请问我们副作地方政府是否长期纵容业者违反县府的规范在未登陆地或者是野稀全责不清的区域违法种植导致环境污染数十年然后这是系统性的执法失灵还是行政怠惰\n\n01:27.507 --> 01:46.819\n报告委员这个案件我们有掌握那这个是县政府管理的河川那在委员这个积极的关切之下呢我们其实已经有跟县政府这边积极来督促他们赶快来做处理所以他目前要进行裁判是将近大概是新台币\n\n01:48.035 --> 02:15.715\n两万五到五十万元之间不过这是将进行采访可是我们主任的诉求是说希望能够就它违法的部分如果是确实违法的话它应该是按照我们78条之一种西瓜使用生鸡粪饮水都需许可违规可撤销然后91条之二就是说以违反许可内容使用的时候可以废止取租约朝这个方向来是我们会来努力OK\n\n02:16.235 --> 02:39.874\n那现在根据空污法的裁罚他大概也只有罚到五千到十万左右所以对业者来讲可能是一个不是很痛痒的一个裁罚那现在主任有一个明确的诉求就是说他不要任何的补偿金只要将违反乱纪或者是未申请种植西瓜的业主呢予以撤销他的种植证照我先给你看一下大概第四张\n\n02:40.854 --> 02:45.591\n它违法的区域有这么宽我们到了这个地区的时候\n\n02:46.604 --> 03:13.751\n发现它也不是七分署管也不是水利署管也不是原民会管这个等于是真空地带那后来问国产署说国产署总是你们的财产吧因为按照我们现在国有财产法第二条规定凡不属于私有或地方所有的财产均是为国有财产可是这个地区是没有经过许可也没有经过登记也没有去申请合法的租约可是这个区块是我们\n\n03:14.511 --> 03:40.010\n眼睛看到大概十个足球场那么大那你说这样一个区域是就在部落旁边这个他们常常为了规避这些选举他们大概都是半夜或者是大概将近昨天看到的那个选举的民众选举是9点22分在他们村庄那个line上面说就开始飘那个浓浓的鸡屎味也就是说他们利用这个投机取巧的方式来\n\n03:40.529 --> 04:07.305\n来放这个生机份所以他们希望能够明确的可以终止他们这个租约或者是终止执照好不好是报告委员我们会来经济协调县政府赶快来做处置对而且这个属于我们传统领域是涉布利西一个传统领域在1893年曾经发生过援汉的一个冲突造成四个人死亡已经过了100多年133年到目前为止那个区块我们认定它是我们排汉族的传统领域\n\n04:07.705 --> 04:32.348\n所以就使用這個土地來講應該縣政府在這個要種植西瓜之前應該請業者跟我們鄰近的部落做一個諮商同意權也就是落實原基法第21條的規定可以嗎是我們會來努力好那我就希望經濟部在能不能在兩週內提出我們是不是可以撤銷許可中止租業或非止租業的一個\n\n04:34.707 --> 04:34.727\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.629,"end":21.52,"text":"主席有請工部長跟水利署黃副署長好我們請兩位署長你要上台的時候主席台對對謝謝部長好我們先看一段影片"},{"start":31.584,"end":60.513,"text":"沒有聲音沒有聲音沒有聲音 OK好 沒關係 這沒有聲音這是我前天去獅子鄉也就是豐港溪流域鄰近的族人在做抗議抗議最主要的訴求是希望能夠遠離雞屎味希望不要再河床種植西瓜後來我們去了那個地方以後發現有四個違法的明顯違法的事實第一個是使用生雞糞"},{"start":61.613,"end":86.827,"text":"第二个是撕屁道路第三个是破坏河体第四个是在河床上新建铁皮屋所以我想请问我们副作地方政府是否长期纵容业者违反县府的规范在未登陆地或者是野稀全责不清的区域违法种植导致环境污染数十年然后这是系统性的执法失灵还是行政怠惰"},{"start":87.507,"end":106.819,"text":"报告委员这个案件我们有掌握那这个是县政府管理的河川那在委员这个积极的关切之下呢我们其实已经有跟县政府这边积极来督促他们赶快来做处理所以他目前要进行裁判是将近大概是新台币"},{"start":108.035,"end":135.715,"text":"两万五到五十万元之间不过这是将进行采访可是我们主任的诉求是说希望能够就它违法的部分如果是确实违法的话它应该是按照我们78条之一种西瓜使用生鸡粪饮水都需许可违规可撤销然后91条之二就是说以违反许可内容使用的时候可以废止取租约朝这个方向来是我们会来努力OK"},{"start":136.235,"end":159.874,"text":"那现在根据空污法的裁罚他大概也只有罚到五千到十万左右所以对业者来讲可能是一个不是很痛痒的一个裁罚那现在主任有一个明确的诉求就是说他不要任何的补偿金只要将违反乱纪或者是未申请种植西瓜的业主呢予以撤销他的种植证照我先给你看一下大概第四张"},{"start":160.854,"end":165.591,"text":"它违法的区域有这么宽我们到了这个地区的时候"},{"start":166.604,"end":193.751,"text":"发现它也不是七分署管也不是水利署管也不是原民会管这个等于是真空地带那后来问国产署说国产署总是你们的财产吧因为按照我们现在国有财产法第二条规定凡不属于私有或地方所有的财产均是为国有财产可是这个地区是没有经过许可也没有经过登记也没有去申请合法的租约可是这个区块是我们"},{"start":194.511,"end":220.01,"text":"眼睛看到大概十个足球场那么大那你说这样一个区域是就在部落旁边这个他们常常为了规避这些选举他们大概都是半夜或者是大概将近昨天看到的那个选举的民众选举是9点22分在他们村庄那个line上面说就开始飘那个浓浓的鸡屎味也就是说他们利用这个投机取巧的方式来"},{"start":220.529,"end":247.305,"text":"来放这个生机份所以他们希望能够明确的可以终止他们这个租约或者是终止执照好不好是 报告委员我们会来经济协调县政府赶快来做处置对 而且这个属于我们传统领域是涉布利西一个传统领域在1893年曾经发生过援汉的一个冲突造成四个人死亡已经过了100多年133年到目前为止那个区块我们认定它是我们排汉族的传统领域"},{"start":247.705,"end":272.348,"text":"所以就使用這個土地來講應該縣政府在這個要種植西瓜之前應該請業者跟我們鄰近的部落做一個諮商同意權也就是落實原基法第21條的規定可以嗎是 我們會來努力好 那我就希望經濟部在能不能在兩週內提出我們是不是可以撤銷許可中止租業或非止租業的一個"},{"start":274.707,"end":274.727,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":868,"blocks":[["盧委員縣一：（11時16分）主席，有請龔部長跟水利署署長。"],["主席：請兩位。"],["盧委員縣一：部長好，我們先看一段影片。","（播放影片）"],["盧委員縣一：這是我前天去獅子鄉，也就是楓港溪流域鄰近的族人在做一些抗議，抗議最主要的訴求是希望能夠遠離雞屎味，希望不要在河床種植西瓜，後來我們去了那個地方以後，發現有四個明顯違法的事實：第一個是使用生雞糞，第二個是私闢道路，第三個是破壞河堤，第四個是在河床上興建鐵皮屋。所以我想請問署長，地方政府是否長期縱容業者違反縣府的規範，在未登錄地或者是野溪權責不清的區域違法種植，導致環境污染數十年？你認為這是系統性執法失靈，還是行政怠惰？"],["林署長元鵬：報告委員，這個案件我們有掌握，這是縣政府管理的河川，在委員積極地關切之下，我們其實已經有跟縣政府積極督促他們趕快處理，所以委員所提的……"],["盧委員縣一：它目前要進行裁罰大概是新臺幣2萬5,000到50萬元之間，不過這是將進行裁罰，可是我們族人的訴求是希望能夠就他違法的部分，如果確實是違法的話，應該是按照第七十八條之一，種西瓜使用生雞糞、引水都需許可，違規可撤銷嘛！第九十一條之二是已違反許可內容使用的時候可以廢止其租約，朝這個方向進行。"],["林署長元鵬：是，我們會來努力。"],["盧委員縣一：現在根據空污法的裁罰大概也只有罰5,000到10萬左右，所以對業者來講，可能不是一個很痛癢的裁罰。現在族人有一個明確的訴求，就是他不要任何的補償金，只要將違法亂紀或未申請種植西瓜的業主予以撤銷他的種植證照。我先給你看一下，他違法的區域有這麼寬，我們到了這個地區的時候，發現它不是七分署管，也不是水利署管，也不是原民會管，它等於是真空地帶，後來問國產署，這總是國產署的財產吧？因為按照現在國有財產法第二條規定，凡不屬於私有或地方所有的財產，均應視為國有財產。","這個地區沒有經過許可，也沒有經過登記，也沒有去申請合法的租約，可是這個區塊我們用眼睛看大概有10個足球場那麼大，這樣的一個區域就在部落旁邊，他們常常為了規避檢舉，大概都是在半夜，像昨天民眾看到的檢舉是9點22分，他們在村莊LINE上面說開始飄濃濃的雞屎味，也就是業主利用投機取巧的方式放生雞糞，所以族人希望能夠明確地終止他們的租約或註銷種植執照，好不好？"],["林署長元鵬：是，報告委員，我們會積極協調縣政府趕快處置。"],["盧委員縣一：對，而且這屬於我們的傳統領域，是射不力溪一個傳統領域，在1893年曾經發生過原漢衝突，造成4人死亡，已經過了一百多年，到目前為止，那個區塊我們認定它是排灣族的傳統領域，所以就使用這個土地來講，縣政府在種植西瓜之前，應該請業者跟我們鄰近的部落做一個諮商同意權，也就是落實原基法第二十一條的規定，可以嗎？"],["林署長元鵬：是，我們會來努力。"],["盧委員縣一：好，我希望經濟部在兩週內提出，是不是可以撤銷許可，承諾終止租約或廢止租約？"],["林署長元鵬：報告委員，因為這個權責還是在縣政府，我們會依照委員的意見趕快跟縣政府協調，但是撤不撤銷可能還是要以縣政府的意見為準，我們來努力。"],["盧委員縣一：未登記土地的權責劃分，希望能夠一個月內給本席報告。"],["林署長元鵬：是，我們會來努力。"],["盧委員縣一：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，接下來我們請蔡易餘委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-6","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","陳超明","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","賴士葆","王育敏","盧縣一","蔡易餘","葉元之","廖先翔","柯志恩","高金素梅","賴惠員","吳宗憲","李坤城","徐富癸","羅廷瑋","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","謝龍介","林楚茵","張嘉郡","邱志偉","牛煦庭","劉建國"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148701_00013"}}}