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\"end\": 794.417, \"score\": 0.002}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,689 --> 00:00:18,360\n請陳秀寶委員謝主席請主委好又請主委陳昭惠好\n\n2\n00:00:19,625 --> 00:00:35,527\n主委好主委這邊請教您在財化法之後通過之後大幅的影響我們中央及地方的預算的分配的比例那衝擊到我們中央的政策的推動國會這邊也難以倖免的會受到影響\n\n3\n00:00:36,688 --> 00:00:52,145\n主委我想请教你原先我们预期明年度的科技预算是会编列到1800亿现在大概只能规划到1600亿少了这200亿主委您觉得说会不会限制到我们台湾科技的发展对我们科研的这些量能会不会限制到\n\n4\n00:00:53,854 --> 00:01:13,798\n我當然覺得會限制啦就是我們希望在政府經濟的發展良好的這樣的時期我們能夠多投入讓台灣的這個實力可以快速再提升那主委您在受訪的時候也表示說因為地方政府的這個收入是增加的\n\n5\n00:01:14,218 --> 00:01:29,554\n希望未來呢地方可以配合中央的施政規劃我們一起來創造更大的內需市場那我想請教說國科會目前有預計哪些科技政策是需要地方政府一起來努力有沒有去協調地方跟中央是如何來合作\n\n6\n00:01:30,474 --> 00:01:45,147\n我刚刚那个张委员在问我AI新时代建设我有提到说我们要发展全民智慧生活圈这个全民智慧生活圈将来推动的机制就是要发展智慧城市把全民透过这个智慧城市AI的应用能够\n\n7\n00:01:46,028 --> 00:02:13,192\nAI的云端应用能够连接在一起这个一定需要地方政府跟中央政府来配合地方政府跟中央政府来配合能够在需求端就是全民全民一定都有地方政府然后他们的需求还有地方的服务业百工百业像旅宿餐饮业医疗健康照护业等等这都是在地方地方政府在协助的时候我们也希望能够补助他们\n\n8\n00:02:13,792 --> 00:02:31,921\n补助他们来应用我们科技产业所发展出来的这些AI的产品跟应用服务这样搭配起来才有办法让我们社会发展其实我们推动科技的政策不只在研究那也要时间重要的是时间所以重要的地方我们要一起\n\n9\n00:02:32,941 --> 00:03:01,490\n也希望说能够达到主委您说的我们是形成一个正向循环但是我会希望说我们需要地方政府一起努力的或者说我们可以给他的这些建议能够更具体我们来拟就是说我们有这样子的一个研究我们有怎样的资源可以来相结合提供给这些县市政府做参考来结合我们现在有的技术我们现在有的结果研究的结果那是提供\n\n10\n00:03:01,851 --> 00:03:12,852\n给我们的民众是一个在产学方面是研究出来的一个可以实践的这个有没有更具体一点的计划可以来提供\n\n11\n00:03:13,939 --> 00:03:33,384\n我們如果是產學合作我們倒沒有特別限制因為學者要跟產業界合作他們要提計劃這個要等到我們預算通過以後因為預算都是中央部會編列的預算通過以後我們會去邀請\n\n12\n00:03:35,144 --> 00:03:58,342\n學術界跟產業界一起來合作來提這些案子所以我們不會限制那個題目好的謝謝主委好那承介剛剛講才化法這個問題我們在115年的這個預算呢針對基礎科研的預算會不會再做增加我們會增加多少的幅度有沒有符合我們國科會想要強力扶植那個科研這個力道我們經費\n\n13\n00:04:04,844 --> 00:04:10,669\n反部增加啦就是說明年的預算我們有有微幅的增加\n\n14\n00:04:11,843 --> 00:04:37,062\n那当然可能没有到说很让学界满意那至少我没有让学界很满意但是主委你自己满意吗自己觉得这样子的我本来当然是期待说明年的一张可以更多一点能够编到一千八近期对于媒体对国歌会计划是有报道几个问题那刚才前面有质询的委员也都有提到不知道主委你自己有没有看过这样的报道\n\n15\n00:04:37,862 --> 00:05:05,949\n內容其實針對是國科會計劃的這些審核經費的運用以及研究經費動漲他其實都有著墨那其中還提到說我們的學者是一塊錢當十塊錢在用難怪國外的學者會稱我國的學術成果是台灣奇蹟那報導裡面有提到說國會主委之前曾經公開直言我們台灣學術界幾十年來都沒有本土的諾貝爾科學獎得主是很羞恥的\n\n16\n00:05:06,969 --> 00:05:27,882\n在国客会这边是不是有在思考其实我们国家提供给大学研究者这个研究经费跟其他国家来相比实在是没有办法跟人家比那国客会这边也不能觉得说责任是在学者自己国会这边你们也有责任为学者为研究者来争取那这边有几个问题想请教主委\n\n17\n00:05:28,362 --> 00:05:47,740\n就針對國科會計畫會變成是學者在校的這個業績有申請到計畫或者說是金額甚至是會跟升等續片來這個聯動那如果沒有申請到計畫等於計畫就停擺了他的研究生涯可能就結束了這個主委您有什麼看法\n\n18\n00:05:48,632 --> 00:06:09,719\n我们在这个计划申请核定通过率其实在全世界来讲我们其实算是高的也就是说我们在支持学界的这个研究我们尽量能够让愿意做研究的学者都能够得到国会的这个补助这一点我们是一直在努力当中\n\n19\n00:06:11,260 --> 00:06:32,578\n當然這個計畫能不能通過還要經過同儕的審查也就是學界專家彼此要去互相審查如果他的計畫沒有得到學者他們同領域學者之間的認同我們也不會浪費納稅人的錢一定要去資助他所以還是有個機制存在\n\n20\n00:06:33,559 --> 00:06:55,361\n针对学者有指出国客会核定的计划经费没有调涨所以学者留不住优秀的研究助理那国客会这边你们对于这样子的没有合理的薪资没有合理的待遇留不住优秀的研究助理我们可以有怎样的方式来协助解决我跟委员报告我们其实计划经费都有增加\n\n21\n00:06:56,102 --> 00:07:25,115\n但是這個計劃經費我們核定到學校去以後學校如果自己的內規沒有改他們自己沒有改的話他一直維持一個老的薪資的級距那也沒有辦法是學校自己要去修改他們的內規這不是國科委沒有在嚴格的限制這個經費核定到學校去以後是學校是有個彈性可以核定研究助理的津貼的\n\n22\n00:07:26,104 --> 00:07:42,738\n好那這邊呢其實剛才我有聽到朱問您在回答的說你們會去研議一個和平的制度是不是有這樣子的方式來解決部分因為待遇不佳沒有辦法讓人才留住這個問題\n\n23\n00:07:44,139 --> 00:08:01,500\n那另外呢真正學者認為說目前國科會的經費會偏重在政治導向就會只注重在國家要發展的項目那他們也希望說我們能夠做到預算是透明化這個項目透明化應該要有個監督的機制那主委您的想法呢\n\n24\n00:08:02,182 --> 00:08:21,953\n我們所有的國會所有的核定計畫全部都是公開的所有的民眾學者都可以看到國會所核定的所有的計畫所以這是全民在監督當然在預算上在項目上是公開的是不是會有一些在他們申請的時候有沒有會偏重偏重到哪個領域呢\n\n25\n00:08:24,165 --> 00:08:51,441\n并不会我们在这个在这个基础的研究部分是所有的学者可以以他自己的这个兴趣他研究的这个项目我们没有任何的限制但是呢我们有政府的一些科技政策那是专案的项目专案项目是额外加进来的我们在那个基础研究的部分自由的那种研究是完全没有\n\n26\n00:08:52,381 --> 00:09:15,584\n没有限制的那这一部分的经费我们是逐年在增加并没有减少是逐年在增加的谢谢主委这边的说明那我还是要再问同样的问题我们刚刚提到说受财化法的影响那目前我们基础科研人经费你们会维持不调整还是会再做调整会再增加吗我们是希望增加啦\n\n27\n00:09:16,741 --> 00:09:41,114\n因為說真的我們中央的預算變少同樣的我們國科會這邊的預算也會比預期的少是但你們希望增加是有機會再調整的會再如果有機會調整當然我們當然希望增加因為譬如說現在我們要發射衛星那緊鑼密鼓我們也把產業界帶進來了如果能夠有更多的資源我們當然速度可以加快對\n\n28\n00:09:42,439 --> 00:09:58,485\n这样才可以掌握那这个还是需要主委需要国科会再努力啦其实能为我们的学界能够再争取更多的资源因为现在以他们遇到的这个困难度就是会觉得说申请的这个可能经费如主委说申请没有那么不容易\n\n29\n00:09:58,925 --> 00:10:18,835\n但是可能的预算没有调涨的话面对现在的物价面对现在所有的白雾起涨可能没有办法去应付那如果可以争取到更多的资源更多的预算给他们他们在研究的时候经费会更宽裕这个部分也希望说主委跟国科会来努力为他们争取好\n\n30\n00:10:19,935 --> 00:10:44,472\n接下來我想請教主委我們學者要申請國科會的經費一定要遵守我們國科會國家科學及技術委員會補助專題研究計畫作業要點其中規範很多就是在規範研究計畫執行期間應該注意及遵守的事項包含如果是違反學術倫理還是違反性平等的有些規範以及懲處但主委\n\n31\n00:10:44,952 --> 00:10:53,598\n我們的研究進行的這個計畫進行期間如果針對計畫主持人及研究助理他們有受到這個霸凌\n\n32\n00:10:54,997 --> 00:11:17,811\n的这个状况除了血轮的之外血瓶的事情之外可能还有遇到霸凌的状况但是我们现在的重要要点没有相关这个霸凌的处置及规范那如果他们计划主持人发生了霸凌研究团队的这个事件我们国科会有什么作为或者说如果是相关的主管机关查到是属实的我们这边会不会有怎样的处置\n\n33\n00:11:18,686 --> 00:11:42,067\n有,我们现在在这个学轮委员会里面,也已经把霸凌这个项目也已经把它涵盖进来,所以委员会开会也会一并讨论这件事情,所以这一次我们在处理台师大女足案,我们已经有考虑这个事了,所以相关的这个运作的程序跟规范,\n\n34\n00:11:43,389 --> 00:12:01,787\n我们有纳入考虑之后我们什么时候会有明确的相关的规定现在已经有了在我们内规里面都已经有在内规里面都已经定出来了因为我们在这个学术研究的这个过程里面当然有时候是上位者或者说主持的人\n\n35\n00:12:02,307 --> 00:12:30,888\n他可能在一些不经意的这样子的过程里面也许会对我们的研究人员我们的团队有造成这样的伤害我们也希望说我们是落实的除了在性平方面在学龙方面在霸凌这一块我们是有注意到而且会处理的但我想请教一下如果说在学校的场域中受到的这样子的事件的第一时间他们会提报到学校由教育部来做相关的处置认定那我们这边的处置方式会是什么\n\n36\n00:12:31,735 --> 00:12:58,270\n国会的处置方式是以执行研究计划所产生的各种各样的问题所以这是学术伦理的部分还有他们在论文发表等等在学术的领域只要相关的事实被认定以后我们有各种处置惩罚的这个方式包含停权停权有它的不同的这个年数包含追回它的研究的补助\n\n37\n00:12:59,610 --> 00:13:14,417\n不能够得到研究奖励甚至还要追回过去的奖项等等有各种各样的所以情节严重的帮帮停权跟追回相关的补助都有我们都已经列入了都已经有了好谢谢主委谢谢主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n689\t18360\t請陳秀寶委員謝主席 請主委好 又請主委陳昭惠好\n19625\t35527\t主委好主委這邊請教您在財化法之後通過之後大幅的影響我們中央及地方的預算的分配的比例那衝擊到我們中央的政策的推動國會這邊也難以倖免的會受到影響\n36688\t52145\t主委我想请教你原先我们预期明年度的科技预算是会编列到1800亿现在大概只能规划到1600亿少了这200亿主委您觉得说会不会限制到我们台湾科技的发展对我们科研的这些量能会不会限制到\n53854\t73798\t我當然覺得會限制啦就是我們希望在政府經濟的發展良好的這樣的時期我們能夠多投入讓台灣的這個實力可以快速再提升那主委您在受訪的時候也表示說因為地方政府的這個收入是增加的\n74218\t89554\t希望未來呢地方可以配合中央的施政規劃我們一起來創造更大的內需市場那我想請教說國科會目前有預計哪些科技政策是需要地方政府一起來努力有沒有去協調地方跟中央是如何來合作\n90474\t105147\t我刚刚那个张委员在问我AI新时代建设我有提到说我们要发展全民智慧生活圈这个全民智慧生活圈将来推动的机制就是要发展智慧城市把全民透过这个智慧城市AI的应用能够\n106028\t133192\tAI的云端应用能够连接在一起这个一定需要地方政府跟中央政府来配合地方政府跟中央政府来配合能够在需求端就是全民全民一定都有地方政府然后他们的需求还有地方的服务业百工百业像旅宿餐饮业医疗健康照护业等等这都是在地方地方政府在协助的时候我们也希望能够补助他们\n133792\t151921\t补助他们来应用我们科技产业所发展出来的这些AI的产品跟应用服务这样搭配起来才有办法让我们社会发展其实我们推动科技的政策不只在研究那也要时间重要的是时间所以重要的地方我们要一起\n152941\t181490\t也希望说能够达到主委您说的我们是形成一个正向循环但是我会希望说我们需要地方政府一起努力的或者说我们可以给他的这些建议能够更具体我们来拟就是说我们有这样子的一个研究我们有怎样的资源可以来相结合提供给这些县市政府做参考来结合我们现在有的技术我们现在有的结果研究的结果那是提供\n181851\t192852\t给我们的民众是一个在产学方面是研究出来的一个可以实践的这个有没有更具体一点的计划可以来提供\n193939\t213384\t我們如果是產學合作我們倒沒有特別限制因為學者要跟產業界合作他們要提計劃這個要等到我們預算通過以後因為預算都是中央部會編列的預算通過以後我們會去邀請\n215144\t238342\t學術界跟產業界一起來合作來提這些案子所以我們不會限制那個題目好的 謝謝主委好 那承介剛剛講才化法這個問題我們在115年的這個預算呢針對基礎科研的預算會不會再做增加我們會增加多少的幅度有沒有符合我們國科會想要強力扶植那個科研這個力道我們經費\n244844\t250669\t反部增加啦就是說明年的預算我們有有微幅的增加\n251843\t277062\t那当然可能没有到说很让学界满意那至少我没有让学界很满意但是主委你自己满意吗自己觉得这样子的我本来当然是期待说明年的一张可以更多一点能够编到一千八近期对于媒体对国歌会计划是有报道几个问题那刚才前面有质询的委员也都有提到不知道主委你自己有没有看过这样的报道\n277862\t305949\t內容其實針對是國科會計劃的這些審核經費的運用以及研究經費動漲他其實都有著墨那其中還提到說我們的學者是一塊錢當十塊錢在用難怪國外的學者會稱我國的學術成果是台灣奇蹟那報導裡面有提到說國會主委之前曾經公開直言我們台灣學術界幾十年來都沒有本土的諾貝爾科學獎得主是很羞恥的\n306969\t327882\t在国客会这边是不是有在思考其实我们国家提供给大学研究者这个研究经费跟其他国家来相比实在是没有办法跟人家比那国客会这边也不能觉得说责任是在学者自己国会这边你们也有责任为学者为研究者来争取那这边有几个问题想请教主委\n328362\t347740\t就針對國科會計畫會變成是學者在校的這個業績有申請到計畫或者說是金額甚至是會跟升等續片來這個聯動那如果沒有申請到計畫等於計畫就停擺了他的研究生涯可能就結束了這個主委您有什麼看法\n348632\t369719\t我们在这个计划申请核定通过率其实在全世界来讲我们其实算是高的也就是说我们在支持学界的这个研究我们尽量能够让愿意做研究的学者都能够得到国会的这个补助这一点我们是一直在努力当中\n371260\t392578\t當然這個計畫能不能通過還要經過同儕的審查也就是學界專家彼此要去互相審查如果他的計畫沒有得到學者他們同領域學者之間的認同我們也不會浪費納稅人的錢一定要去資助他所以還是有個機制存在\n393559\t415361\t针对学者有指出国客会核定的计划经费没有调涨所以学者留不住优秀的研究助理那国客会这边你们对于这样子的没有合理的薪资没有合理的待遇留不住优秀的研究助理我们可以有怎样的方式来协助解决我跟委员报告我们其实计划经费都有增加\n416102\t445115\t但是這個計劃經費我們核定到學校去以後學校如果自己的內規沒有改他們自己沒有改的話他一直維持一個老的薪資的級距那也沒有辦法是學校自己要去修改他們的內規這不是國科委沒有在嚴格的限制這個經費核定到學校去以後是學校是有個彈性可以核定研究助理的津貼的\n446104\t462738\t好那這邊呢其實剛才我有聽到朱問您在回答的說你們會去研議一個和平的制度是不是有這樣子的方式來解決部分因為待遇不佳沒有辦法讓人才留住這個問題\n464139\t481500\t那另外呢真正學者認為說目前國科會的經費會偏重在政治導向就會只注重在國家要發展的項目那他們也希望說我們能夠做到預算是透明化這個項目透明化應該要有個監督的機制那主委您的想法呢\n482182\t501953\t我們所有的國會所有的核定計畫全部都是公開的所有的民眾學者都可以看到國會所核定的所有的計畫所以這是全民在監督當然在預算上在項目上是公開的是不是會有一些在他們申請的時候有沒有會偏重偏重到哪個領域呢\n504165\t531441\t并不会我们在这个在这个基础的研究部分是所有的学者可以以他自己的这个兴趣他研究的这个项目我们没有任何的限制但是呢我们有政府的一些科技政策那是专案的项目专案项目是额外加进来的我们在那个基础研究的部分自由的那种研究是完全没有\n532381\t555584\t没有限制的那这一部分的经费我们是逐年在增加并没有减少是逐年在增加的谢谢主委这边的说明那我还是要再问同样的问题我们刚刚提到说受财化法的影响那目前我们基础科研人经费你们会维持不调整还是会再做调整会再增加吗我们是希望增加啦\n556741\t581114\t因為說真的我們中央的預算變少同樣的我們國科會這邊的預算也會比預期的少是但你們希望增加是有機會再調整的會再如果有機會調整當然我們當然希望增加因為譬如說現在我們要發射衛星那緊鑼密鼓我們也把產業界帶進來了如果能夠有更多的資源我們當然速度可以加快對\n582439\t598485\t这样才可以掌握那这个还是需要主委需要国科会再努力啦其实能为我们的学界能够再争取更多的资源因为现在以他们遇到的这个困难度就是会觉得说申请的这个可能经费如主委说申请没有那么不容易\n598925\t618835\t但是可能的预算没有调涨的话面对现在的物价面对现在所有的白雾起涨可能没有办法去应付那如果可以争取到更多的资源更多的预算给他们他们在研究的时候经费会更宽裕这个部分也希望说主委跟国科会来努力为他们争取好\n619935\t644472\t接下來我想請教主委我們學者要申請國科會的經費一定要遵守我們國科會國家科學及技術委員會補助專題研究計畫作業要點其中規範很多就是在規範研究計畫執行期間應該注意及遵守的事項包含如果是違反學術倫理還是違反性平等的有些規範以及懲處但主委\n644952\t653598\t我們的研究進行的這個計畫進行期間如果針對計畫主持人及研究助理他們有受到這個霸凌\n654997\t677811\t的这个状况除了血轮的之外血瓶的事情之外可能还有遇到霸凌的状况但是我们现在的重要要点没有相关这个霸凌的处置及规范那如果他们计划主持人发生了霸凌研究团队的这个事件我们国科会有什么作为或者说如果是相关的主管机关查到是属实的我们这边会不会有怎样的处置\n678686\t702067\t有,我们现在在这个学轮委员会里面,也已经把霸凌这个项目也已经把它涵盖进来,所以委员会开会也会一并讨论这件事情,所以这一次我们在处理台师大女足案,我们已经有考虑这个事了,所以相关的这个运作的程序跟规范,\n703389\t721787\t我们有纳入考虑之后我们什么时候会有明确的相关的规定现在已经有了在我们内规里面都已经有在内规里面都已经定出来了因为我们在这个学术研究的这个过程里面当然有时候是上位者或者说主持的人\n722307\t750888\t他可能在一些不经意的这样子的过程里面也许会对我们的研究人员我们的团队有造成这样的伤害我们也希望说我们是落实的除了在性平方面在学龙方面在霸凌这一块我们是有注意到而且会处理的但我想请教一下如果说在学校的场域中受到的这样子的事件的第一时间他们会提报到学校由教育部来做相关的处置认定那我们这边的处置方式会是什么\n751735\t778270\t国会的处置方式是以执行研究计划所产生的各种各样的问题所以这是学术伦理的部分还有他们在论文发表等等在学术的领域只要相关的事实被认定以后我们有各种处置惩罚的这个方式包含停权停权有它的不同的这个年数包含追回它的研究的补助\n779610\t794417\t不能够得到研究奖励甚至还要追回过去的奖项等等有各种各样的所以情节严重的帮帮停权跟追回相关的补助都有我们都已经列入了都已经有了好 谢谢主委谢谢主席\n","txt":"請陳秀寶委員謝主席 請主委好 又請主委陳昭惠好\n主委好主委這邊請教您在財化法之後通過之後大幅的影響我們中央及地方的預算的分配的比例那衝擊到我們中央的政策的推動國會這邊也難以倖免的會受到影響\n主委我想请教你原先我们预期明年度的科技预算是会编列到1800亿现在大概只能规划到1600亿少了这200亿主委您觉得说会不会限制到我们台湾科技的发展对我们科研的这些量能会不会限制到\n我當然覺得會限制啦就是我們希望在政府經濟的發展良好的這樣的時期我們能夠多投入讓台灣的這個實力可以快速再提升那主委您在受訪的時候也表示說因為地方政府的這個收入是增加的\n希望未來呢地方可以配合中央的施政規劃我們一起來創造更大的內需市場那我想請教說國科會目前有預計哪些科技政策是需要地方政府一起來努力有沒有去協調地方跟中央是如何來合作\n我刚刚那个张委员在问我AI新时代建设我有提到说我们要发展全民智慧生活圈这个全民智慧生活圈将来推动的机制就是要发展智慧城市把全民透过这个智慧城市AI的应用能够\nAI的云端应用能够连接在一起这个一定需要地方政府跟中央政府来配合地方政府跟中央政府来配合能够在需求端就是全民全民一定都有地方政府然后他们的需求还有地方的服务业百工百业像旅宿餐饮业医疗健康照护业等等这都是在地方地方政府在协助的时候我们也希望能够补助他们\n补助他们来应用我们科技产业所发展出来的这些AI的产品跟应用服务这样搭配起来才有办法让我们社会发展其实我们推动科技的政策不只在研究那也要时间重要的是时间所以重要的地方我们要一起\n也希望说能够达到主委您说的我们是形成一个正向循环但是我会希望说我们需要地方政府一起努力的或者说我们可以给他的这些建议能够更具体我们来拟就是说我们有这样子的一个研究我们有怎样的资源可以来相结合提供给这些县市政府做参考来结合我们现在有的技术我们现在有的结果研究的结果那是提供\n给我们的民众是一个在产学方面是研究出来的一个可以实践的这个有没有更具体一点的计划可以来提供\n我們如果是產學合作我們倒沒有特別限制因為學者要跟產業界合作他們要提計劃這個要等到我們預算通過以後因為預算都是中央部會編列的預算通過以後我們會去邀請\n學術界跟產業界一起來合作來提這些案子所以我們不會限制那個題目好的 謝謝主委好 那承介剛剛講才化法這個問題我們在115年的這個預算呢針對基礎科研的預算會不會再做增加我們會增加多少的幅度有沒有符合我們國科會想要強力扶植那個科研這個力道我們經費\n反部增加啦就是說明年的預算我們有有微幅的增加\n那当然可能没有到说很让学界满意那至少我没有让学界很满意但是主委你自己满意吗自己觉得这样子的我本来当然是期待说明年的一张可以更多一点能够编到一千八近期对于媒体对国歌会计划是有报道几个问题那刚才前面有质询的委员也都有提到不知道主委你自己有没有看过这样的报道\n內容其實針對是國科會計劃的這些審核經費的運用以及研究經費動漲他其實都有著墨那其中還提到說我們的學者是一塊錢當十塊錢在用難怪國外的學者會稱我國的學術成果是台灣奇蹟那報導裡面有提到說國會主委之前曾經公開直言我們台灣學術界幾十年來都沒有本土的諾貝爾科學獎得主是很羞恥的\n在国客会这边是不是有在思考其实我们国家提供给大学研究者这个研究经费跟其他国家来相比实在是没有办法跟人家比那国客会这边也不能觉得说责任是在学者自己国会这边你们也有责任为学者为研究者来争取那这边有几个问题想请教主委\n就針對國科會計畫會變成是學者在校的這個業績有申請到計畫或者說是金額甚至是會跟升等續片來這個聯動那如果沒有申請到計畫等於計畫就停擺了他的研究生涯可能就結束了這個主委您有什麼看法\n我们在这个计划申请核定通过率其实在全世界来讲我们其实算是高的也就是说我们在支持学界的这个研究我们尽量能够让愿意做研究的学者都能够得到国会的这个补助这一点我们是一直在努力当中\n當然這個計畫能不能通過還要經過同儕的審查也就是學界專家彼此要去互相審查如果他的計畫沒有得到學者他們同領域學者之間的認同我們也不會浪費納稅人的錢一定要去資助他所以還是有個機制存在\n针对学者有指出国客会核定的计划经费没有调涨所以学者留不住优秀的研究助理那国客会这边你们对于这样子的没有合理的薪资没有合理的待遇留不住优秀的研究助理我们可以有怎样的方式来协助解决我跟委员报告我们其实计划经费都有增加\n但是這個計劃經費我們核定到學校去以後學校如果自己的內規沒有改他們自己沒有改的話他一直維持一個老的薪資的級距那也沒有辦法是學校自己要去修改他們的內規這不是國科委沒有在嚴格的限制這個經費核定到學校去以後是學校是有個彈性可以核定研究助理的津貼的\n好那這邊呢其實剛才我有聽到朱問您在回答的說你們會去研議一個和平的制度是不是有這樣子的方式來解決部分因為待遇不佳沒有辦法讓人才留住這個問題\n那另外呢真正學者認為說目前國科會的經費會偏重在政治導向就會只注重在國家要發展的項目那他們也希望說我們能夠做到預算是透明化這個項目透明化應該要有個監督的機制那主委您的想法呢\n我們所有的國會所有的核定計畫全部都是公開的所有的民眾學者都可以看到國會所核定的所有的計畫所以這是全民在監督當然在預算上在項目上是公開的是不是會有一些在他們申請的時候有沒有會偏重偏重到哪個領域呢\n并不会我们在这个在这个基础的研究部分是所有的学者可以以他自己的这个兴趣他研究的这个项目我们没有任何的限制但是呢我们有政府的一些科技政策那是专案的项目专案项目是额外加进来的我们在那个基础研究的部分自由的那种研究是完全没有\n没有限制的那这一部分的经费我们是逐年在增加并没有减少是逐年在增加的谢谢主委这边的说明那我还是要再问同样的问题我们刚刚提到说受财化法的影响那目前我们基础科研人经费你们会维持不调整还是会再做调整会再增加吗我们是希望增加啦\n因為說真的我們中央的預算變少同樣的我們國科會這邊的預算也會比預期的少是但你們希望增加是有機會再調整的會再如果有機會調整當然我們當然希望增加因為譬如說現在我們要發射衛星那緊鑼密鼓我們也把產業界帶進來了如果能夠有更多的資源我們當然速度可以加快對\n这样才可以掌握那这个还是需要主委需要国科会再努力啦其实能为我们的学界能够再争取更多的资源因为现在以他们遇到的这个困难度就是会觉得说申请的这个可能经费如主委说申请没有那么不容易\n但是可能的预算没有调涨的话面对现在的物价面对现在所有的白雾起涨可能没有办法去应付那如果可以争取到更多的资源更多的预算给他们他们在研究的时候经费会更宽裕这个部分也希望说主委跟国科会来努力为他们争取好\n接下來我想請教主委我們學者要申請國科會的經費一定要遵守我們國科會國家科學及技術委員會補助專題研究計畫作業要點其中規範很多就是在規範研究計畫執行期間應該注意及遵守的事項包含如果是違反學術倫理還是違反性平等的有些規範以及懲處但主委\n我們的研究進行的這個計畫進行期間如果針對計畫主持人及研究助理他們有受到這個霸凌\n的这个状况除了血轮的之外血瓶的事情之外可能还有遇到霸凌的状况但是我们现在的重要要点没有相关这个霸凌的处置及规范那如果他们计划主持人发生了霸凌研究团队的这个事件我们国科会有什么作为或者说如果是相关的主管机关查到是属实的我们这边会不会有怎样的处置\n有,我们现在在这个学轮委员会里面,也已经把霸凌这个项目也已经把它涵盖进来,所以委员会开会也会一并讨论这件事情,所以这一次我们在处理台师大女足案,我们已经有考虑这个事了,所以相关的这个运作的程序跟规范,\n我们有纳入考虑之后我们什么时候会有明确的相关的规定现在已经有了在我们内规里面都已经有在内规里面都已经定出来了因为我们在这个学术研究的这个过程里面当然有时候是上位者或者说主持的人\n他可能在一些不经意的这样子的过程里面也许会对我们的研究人员我们的团队有造成这样的伤害我们也希望说我们是落实的除了在性平方面在学龙方面在霸凌这一块我们是有注意到而且会处理的但我想请教一下如果说在学校的场域中受到的这样子的事件的第一时间他们会提报到学校由教育部来做相关的处置认定那我们这边的处置方式会是什么\n国会的处置方式是以执行研究计划所产生的各种各样的问题所以这是学术伦理的部分还有他们在论文发表等等在学术的领域只要相关的事实被认定以后我们有各种处置惩罚的这个方式包含停权停权有它的不同的这个年数包含追回它的研究的补助\n不能够得到研究奖励甚至还要追回过去的奖项等等有各种各样的所以情节严重的帮帮停权跟追回相关的补助都有我们都已经列入了都已经有了好 谢谢主委谢谢主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.689 --> 00:18.360\n請陳秀寶委員謝主席請主委好又請主委陳昭惠好\n\n00:19.625 --> 00:35.527\n主委好主委這邊請教您在財化法之後通過之後大幅的影響我們中央及地方的預算的分配的比例那衝擊到我們中央的政策的推動國會這邊也難以倖免的會受到影響\n\n00:36.688 --> 00:52.145\n主委我想请教你原先我们预期明年度的科技预算是会编列到1800亿现在大概只能规划到1600亿少了这200亿主委您觉得说会不会限制到我们台湾科技的发展对我们科研的这些量能会不会限制到\n\n00:53.854 --> 01:13.798\n我當然覺得會限制啦就是我們希望在政府經濟的發展良好的這樣的時期我們能夠多投入讓台灣的這個實力可以快速再提升那主委您在受訪的時候也表示說因為地方政府的這個收入是增加的\n\n01:14.218 --> 01:29.554\n希望未來呢地方可以配合中央的施政規劃我們一起來創造更大的內需市場那我想請教說國科會目前有預計哪些科技政策是需要地方政府一起來努力有沒有去協調地方跟中央是如何來合作\n\n01:30.474 --> 01:45.147\n我刚刚那个张委员在问我AI新时代建设我有提到说我们要发展全民智慧生活圈这个全民智慧生活圈将来推动的机制就是要发展智慧城市把全民透过这个智慧城市AI的应用能够\n\n01:46.028 --> 02:13.192\nAI的云端应用能够连接在一起这个一定需要地方政府跟中央政府来配合地方政府跟中央政府来配合能够在需求端就是全民全民一定都有地方政府然后他们的需求还有地方的服务业百工百业像旅宿餐饮业医疗健康照护业等等这都是在地方地方政府在协助的时候我们也希望能够补助他们\n\n02:13.792 --> 02:31.921\n补助他们来应用我们科技产业所发展出来的这些AI的产品跟应用服务这样搭配起来才有办法让我们社会发展其实我们推动科技的政策不只在研究那也要时间重要的是时间所以重要的地方我们要一起\n\n02:32.941 --> 03:01.490\n也希望说能够达到主委您说的我们是形成一个正向循环但是我会希望说我们需要地方政府一起努力的或者说我们可以给他的这些建议能够更具体我们来拟就是说我们有这样子的一个研究我们有怎样的资源可以来相结合提供给这些县市政府做参考来结合我们现在有的技术我们现在有的结果研究的结果那是提供\n\n03:01.851 --> 03:12.852\n给我们的民众是一个在产学方面是研究出来的一个可以实践的这个有没有更具体一点的计划可以来提供\n\n03:13.939 --> 03:33.384\n我們如果是產學合作我們倒沒有特別限制因為學者要跟產業界合作他們要提計劃這個要等到我們預算通過以後因為預算都是中央部會編列的預算通過以後我們會去邀請\n\n03:35.144 --> 03:58.342\n學術界跟產業界一起來合作來提這些案子所以我們不會限制那個題目好的謝謝主委好那承介剛剛講才化法這個問題我們在115年的這個預算呢針對基礎科研的預算會不會再做增加我們會增加多少的幅度有沒有符合我們國科會想要強力扶植那個科研這個力道我們經費\n\n04:04.844 --> 04:10.669\n反部增加啦就是說明年的預算我們有有微幅的增加\n\n04:11.843 --> 04:37.062\n那当然可能没有到说很让学界满意那至少我没有让学界很满意但是主委你自己满意吗自己觉得这样子的我本来当然是期待说明年的一张可以更多一点能够编到一千八近期对于媒体对国歌会计划是有报道几个问题那刚才前面有质询的委员也都有提到不知道主委你自己有没有看过这样的报道\n\n04:37.862 --> 05:05.949\n內容其實針對是國科會計劃的這些審核經費的運用以及研究經費動漲他其實都有著墨那其中還提到說我們的學者是一塊錢當十塊錢在用難怪國外的學者會稱我國的學術成果是台灣奇蹟那報導裡面有提到說國會主委之前曾經公開直言我們台灣學術界幾十年來都沒有本土的諾貝爾科學獎得主是很羞恥的\n\n05:06.969 --> 05:27.882\n在国客会这边是不是有在思考其实我们国家提供给大学研究者这个研究经费跟其他国家来相比实在是没有办法跟人家比那国客会这边也不能觉得说责任是在学者自己国会这边你们也有责任为学者为研究者来争取那这边有几个问题想请教主委\n\n05:28.362 --> 05:47.740\n就針對國科會計畫會變成是學者在校的這個業績有申請到計畫或者說是金額甚至是會跟升等續片來這個聯動那如果沒有申請到計畫等於計畫就停擺了他的研究生涯可能就結束了這個主委您有什麼看法\n\n05:48.632 --> 06:09.719\n我们在这个计划申请核定通过率其实在全世界来讲我们其实算是高的也就是说我们在支持学界的这个研究我们尽量能够让愿意做研究的学者都能够得到国会的这个补助这一点我们是一直在努力当中\n\n06:11.260 --> 06:32.578\n當然這個計畫能不能通過還要經過同儕的審查也就是學界專家彼此要去互相審查如果他的計畫沒有得到學者他們同領域學者之間的認同我們也不會浪費納稅人的錢一定要去資助他所以還是有個機制存在\n\n06:33.559 --> 06:55.361\n针对学者有指出国客会核定的计划经费没有调涨所以学者留不住优秀的研究助理那国客会这边你们对于这样子的没有合理的薪资没有合理的待遇留不住优秀的研究助理我们可以有怎样的方式来协助解决我跟委员报告我们其实计划经费都有增加\n\n06:56.102 --> 07:25.115\n但是這個計劃經費我們核定到學校去以後學校如果自己的內規沒有改他們自己沒有改的話他一直維持一個老的薪資的級距那也沒有辦法是學校自己要去修改他們的內規這不是國科委沒有在嚴格的限制這個經費核定到學校去以後是學校是有個彈性可以核定研究助理的津貼的\n\n07:26.104 --> 07:42.738\n好那這邊呢其實剛才我有聽到朱問您在回答的說你們會去研議一個和平的制度是不是有這樣子的方式來解決部分因為待遇不佳沒有辦法讓人才留住這個問題\n\n07:44.139 --> 08:01.500\n那另外呢真正學者認為說目前國科會的經費會偏重在政治導向就會只注重在國家要發展的項目那他們也希望說我們能夠做到預算是透明化這個項目透明化應該要有個監督的機制那主委您的想法呢\n\n08:02.182 --> 08:21.953\n我們所有的國會所有的核定計畫全部都是公開的所有的民眾學者都可以看到國會所核定的所有的計畫所以這是全民在監督當然在預算上在項目上是公開的是不是會有一些在他們申請的時候有沒有會偏重偏重到哪個領域呢\n\n08:24.165 --> 08:51.441\n并不会我们在这个在这个基础的研究部分是所有的学者可以以他自己的这个兴趣他研究的这个项目我们没有任何的限制但是呢我们有政府的一些科技政策那是专案的项目专案项目是额外加进来的我们在那个基础研究的部分自由的那种研究是完全没有\n\n08:52.381 --> 09:15.584\n没有限制的那这一部分的经费我们是逐年在增加并没有减少是逐年在增加的谢谢主委这边的说明那我还是要再问同样的问题我们刚刚提到说受财化法的影响那目前我们基础科研人经费你们会维持不调整还是会再做调整会再增加吗我们是希望增加啦\n\n09:16.741 --> 09:41.114\n因為說真的我們中央的預算變少同樣的我們國科會這邊的預算也會比預期的少是但你們希望增加是有機會再調整的會再如果有機會調整當然我們當然希望增加因為譬如說現在我們要發射衛星那緊鑼密鼓我們也把產業界帶進來了如果能夠有更多的資源我們當然速度可以加快對\n\n09:42.439 --> 09:58.485\n这样才可以掌握那这个还是需要主委需要国科会再努力啦其实能为我们的学界能够再争取更多的资源因为现在以他们遇到的这个困难度就是会觉得说申请的这个可能经费如主委说申请没有那么不容易\n\n09:58.925 --> 10:18.835\n但是可能的预算没有调涨的话面对现在的物价面对现在所有的白雾起涨可能没有办法去应付那如果可以争取到更多的资源更多的预算给他们他们在研究的时候经费会更宽裕这个部分也希望说主委跟国科会来努力为他们争取好\n\n10:19.935 --> 10:44.472\n接下來我想請教主委我們學者要申請國科會的經費一定要遵守我們國科會國家科學及技術委員會補助專題研究計畫作業要點其中規範很多就是在規範研究計畫執行期間應該注意及遵守的事項包含如果是違反學術倫理還是違反性平等的有些規範以及懲處但主委\n\n10:44.952 --> 10:53.598\n我們的研究進行的這個計畫進行期間如果針對計畫主持人及研究助理他們有受到這個霸凌\n\n10:54.997 --> 11:17.811\n的这个状况除了血轮的之外血瓶的事情之外可能还有遇到霸凌的状况但是我们现在的重要要点没有相关这个霸凌的处置及规范那如果他们计划主持人发生了霸凌研究团队的这个事件我们国科会有什么作为或者说如果是相关的主管机关查到是属实的我们这边会不会有怎样的处置\n\n11:18.686 --> 11:42.067\n有,我们现在在这个学轮委员会里面,也已经把霸凌这个项目也已经把它涵盖进来,所以委员会开会也会一并讨论这件事情,所以这一次我们在处理台师大女足案,我们已经有考虑这个事了,所以相关的这个运作的程序跟规范,\n\n11:43.389 --> 12:01.787\n我们有纳入考虑之后我们什么时候会有明确的相关的规定现在已经有了在我们内规里面都已经有在内规里面都已经定出来了因为我们在这个学术研究的这个过程里面当然有时候是上位者或者说主持的人\n\n12:02.307 --> 12:30.888\n他可能在一些不经意的这样子的过程里面也许会对我们的研究人员我们的团队有造成这样的伤害我们也希望说我们是落实的除了在性平方面在学龙方面在霸凌这一块我们是有注意到而且会处理的但我想请教一下如果说在学校的场域中受到的这样子的事件的第一时间他们会提报到学校由教育部来做相关的处置认定那我们这边的处置方式会是什么\n\n12:31.735 --> 12:58.270\n国会的处置方式是以执行研究计划所产生的各种各样的问题所以这是学术伦理的部分还有他们在论文发表等等在学术的领域只要相关的事实被认定以后我们有各种处置惩罚的这个方式包含停权停权有它的不同的这个年数包含追回它的研究的补助\n\n12:59.610 --> 13:14.417\n不能够得到研究奖励甚至还要追回过去的奖项等等有各种各样的所以情节严重的帮帮停权跟追回相关的补助都有我们都已经列入了都已经有了好谢谢主委谢谢主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.689,"end":18.36,"text":"請陳秀寶委員謝主席 請主委好 又請主委陳昭惠好"},{"start":19.625,"end":35.527,"text":"主委好主委這邊請教您在財化法之後通過之後大幅的影響我們中央及地方的預算的分配的比例那衝擊到我們中央的政策的推動國會這邊也難以倖免的會受到影響"},{"start":36.688,"end":52.145,"text":"主委我想请教你原先我们预期明年度的科技预算是会编列到1800亿现在大概只能规划到1600亿少了这200亿主委您觉得说会不会限制到我们台湾科技的发展对我们科研的这些量能会不会限制到"},{"start":53.854,"end":73.798,"text":"我當然覺得會限制啦就是我們希望在政府經濟的發展良好的這樣的時期我們能夠多投入讓台灣的這個實力可以快速再提升那主委您在受訪的時候也表示說因為地方政府的這個收入是增加的"},{"start":74.218,"end":89.554,"text":"希望未來呢地方可以配合中央的施政規劃我們一起來創造更大的內需市場那我想請教說國科會目前有預計哪些科技政策是需要地方政府一起來努力有沒有去協調地方跟中央是如何來合作"},{"start":90.474,"end":105.147,"text":"我刚刚那个张委员在问我AI新时代建设我有提到说我们要发展全民智慧生活圈这个全民智慧生活圈将来推动的机制就是要发展智慧城市把全民透过这个智慧城市AI的应用能够"},{"start":106.028,"end":133.192,"text":"AI的云端应用能够连接在一起这个一定需要地方政府跟中央政府来配合地方政府跟中央政府来配合能够在需求端就是全民全民一定都有地方政府然后他们的需求还有地方的服务业百工百业像旅宿餐饮业医疗健康照护业等等这都是在地方地方政府在协助的时候我们也希望能够补助他们"},{"start":133.792,"end":151.921,"text":"补助他们来应用我们科技产业所发展出来的这些AI的产品跟应用服务这样搭配起来才有办法让我们社会发展其实我们推动科技的政策不只在研究那也要时间重要的是时间所以重要的地方我们要一起"},{"start":152.941,"end":181.49,"text":"也希望说能够达到主委您说的我们是形成一个正向循环但是我会希望说我们需要地方政府一起努力的或者说我们可以给他的这些建议能够更具体我们来拟就是说我们有这样子的一个研究我们有怎样的资源可以来相结合提供给这些县市政府做参考来结合我们现在有的技术我们现在有的结果研究的结果那是提供"},{"start":181.851,"end":192.852,"text":"给我们的民众是一个在产学方面是研究出来的一个可以实践的这个有没有更具体一点的计划可以来提供"},{"start":193.939,"end":213.384,"text":"我們如果是產學合作我們倒沒有特別限制因為學者要跟產業界合作他們要提計劃這個要等到我們預算通過以後因為預算都是中央部會編列的預算通過以後我們會去邀請"},{"start":215.144,"end":238.342,"text":"學術界跟產業界一起來合作來提這些案子所以我們不會限制那個題目好的 謝謝主委好 那承介剛剛講才化法這個問題我們在115年的這個預算呢針對基礎科研的預算會不會再做增加我們會增加多少的幅度有沒有符合我們國科會想要強力扶植那個科研這個力道我們經費"},{"start":244.844,"end":250.669,"text":"反部增加啦就是說明年的預算我們有有微幅的增加"},{"start":251.843,"end":277.062,"text":"那当然可能没有到说很让学界满意那至少我没有让学界很满意但是主委你自己满意吗自己觉得这样子的我本来当然是期待说明年的一张可以更多一点能够编到一千八近期对于媒体对国歌会计划是有报道几个问题那刚才前面有质询的委员也都有提到不知道主委你自己有没有看过这样的报道"},{"start":277.862,"end":305.949,"text":"內容其實針對是國科會計劃的這些審核經費的運用以及研究經費動漲他其實都有著墨那其中還提到說我們的學者是一塊錢當十塊錢在用難怪國外的學者會稱我國的學術成果是台灣奇蹟那報導裡面有提到說國會主委之前曾經公開直言我們台灣學術界幾十年來都沒有本土的諾貝爾科學獎得主是很羞恥的"},{"start":306.969,"end":327.882,"text":"在国客会这边是不是有在思考其实我们国家提供给大学研究者这个研究经费跟其他国家来相比实在是没有办法跟人家比那国客会这边也不能觉得说责任是在学者自己国会这边你们也有责任为学者为研究者来争取那这边有几个问题想请教主委"},{"start":328.362,"end":347.74,"text":"就針對國科會計畫會變成是學者在校的這個業績有申請到計畫或者說是金額甚至是會跟升等續片來這個聯動那如果沒有申請到計畫等於計畫就停擺了他的研究生涯可能就結束了這個主委您有什麼看法"},{"start":348.632,"end":369.719,"text":"我们在这个计划申请核定通过率其实在全世界来讲我们其实算是高的也就是说我们在支持学界的这个研究我们尽量能够让愿意做研究的学者都能够得到国会的这个补助这一点我们是一直在努力当中"},{"start":371.26,"end":392.578,"text":"當然這個計畫能不能通過還要經過同儕的審查也就是學界專家彼此要去互相審查如果他的計畫沒有得到學者他們同領域學者之間的認同我們也不會浪費納稅人的錢一定要去資助他所以還是有個機制存在"},{"start":393.559,"end":415.361,"text":"针对学者有指出国客会核定的计划经费没有调涨所以学者留不住优秀的研究助理那国客会这边你们对于这样子的没有合理的薪资没有合理的待遇留不住优秀的研究助理我们可以有怎样的方式来协助解决我跟委员报告我们其实计划经费都有增加"},{"start":416.102,"end":445.115,"text":"但是這個計劃經費我們核定到學校去以後學校如果自己的內規沒有改他們自己沒有改的話他一直維持一個老的薪資的級距那也沒有辦法是學校自己要去修改他們的內規這不是國科委沒有在嚴格的限制這個經費核定到學校去以後是學校是有個彈性可以核定研究助理的津貼的"},{"start":446.104,"end":462.738,"text":"好那這邊呢其實剛才我有聽到朱問您在回答的說你們會去研議一個和平的制度是不是有這樣子的方式來解決部分因為待遇不佳沒有辦法讓人才留住這個問題"},{"start":464.139,"end":481.5,"text":"那另外呢真正學者認為說目前國科會的經費會偏重在政治導向就會只注重在國家要發展的項目那他們也希望說我們能夠做到預算是透明化這個項目透明化應該要有個監督的機制那主委您的想法呢"},{"start":482.182,"end":501.953,"text":"我們所有的國會所有的核定計畫全部都是公開的所有的民眾學者都可以看到國會所核定的所有的計畫所以這是全民在監督當然在預算上在項目上是公開的是不是會有一些在他們申請的時候有沒有會偏重偏重到哪個領域呢"},{"start":504.165,"end":531.441,"text":"并不会我们在这个在这个基础的研究部分是所有的学者可以以他自己的这个兴趣他研究的这个项目我们没有任何的限制但是呢我们有政府的一些科技政策那是专案的项目专案项目是额外加进来的我们在那个基础研究的部分自由的那种研究是完全没有"},{"start":532.381,"end":555.584,"text":"没有限制的那这一部分的经费我们是逐年在增加并没有减少是逐年在增加的谢谢主委这边的说明那我还是要再问同样的问题我们刚刚提到说受财化法的影响那目前我们基础科研人经费你们会维持不调整还是会再做调整会再增加吗我们是希望增加啦"},{"start":556.741,"end":581.114,"text":"因為說真的我們中央的預算變少同樣的我們國科會這邊的預算也會比預期的少是但你們希望增加是有機會再調整的會再如果有機會調整當然我們當然希望增加因為譬如說現在我們要發射衛星那緊鑼密鼓我們也把產業界帶進來了如果能夠有更多的資源我們當然速度可以加快對"},{"start":582.439,"end":598.485,"text":"这样才可以掌握那这个还是需要主委需要国科会再努力啦其实能为我们的学界能够再争取更多的资源因为现在以他们遇到的这个困难度就是会觉得说申请的这个可能经费如主委说申请没有那么不容易"},{"start":598.925,"end":618.835,"text":"但是可能的预算没有调涨的话面对现在的物价面对现在所有的白雾起涨可能没有办法去应付那如果可以争取到更多的资源更多的预算给他们他们在研究的时候经费会更宽裕这个部分也希望说主委跟国科会来努力为他们争取好"},{"start":619.935,"end":644.472,"text":"接下來我想請教主委我們學者要申請國科會的經費一定要遵守我們國科會國家科學及技術委員會補助專題研究計畫作業要點其中規範很多就是在規範研究計畫執行期間應該注意及遵守的事項包含如果是違反學術倫理還是違反性平等的有些規範以及懲處但主委"},{"start":644.952,"end":653.598,"text":"我們的研究進行的這個計畫進行期間如果針對計畫主持人及研究助理他們有受到這個霸凌"},{"start":654.997,"end":677.811,"text":"的这个状况除了血轮的之外血瓶的事情之外可能还有遇到霸凌的状况但是我们现在的重要要点没有相关这个霸凌的处置及规范那如果他们计划主持人发生了霸凌研究团队的这个事件我们国科会有什么作为或者说如果是相关的主管机关查到是属实的我们这边会不会有怎样的处置"},{"start":678.686,"end":702.067,"text":"有,我们现在在这个学轮委员会里面,也已经把霸凌这个项目也已经把它涵盖进来,所以委员会开会也会一并讨论这件事情,所以这一次我们在处理台师大女足案,我们已经有考虑这个事了,所以相关的这个运作的程序跟规范,"},{"start":703.389,"end":721.787,"text":"我们有纳入考虑之后我们什么时候会有明确的相关的规定现在已经有了在我们内规里面都已经有在内规里面都已经定出来了因为我们在这个学术研究的这个过程里面当然有时候是上位者或者说主持的人"},{"start":722.307,"end":750.888,"text":"他可能在一些不经意的这样子的过程里面也许会对我们的研究人员我们的团队有造成这样的伤害我们也希望说我们是落实的除了在性平方面在学龙方面在霸凌这一块我们是有注意到而且会处理的但我想请教一下如果说在学校的场域中受到的这样子的事件的第一时间他们会提报到学校由教育部来做相关的处置认定那我们这边的处置方式会是什么"},{"start":751.735,"end":778.27,"text":"国会的处置方式是以执行研究计划所产生的各种各样的问题所以这是学术伦理的部分还有他们在论文发表等等在学术的领域只要相关的事实被认定以后我们有各种处置惩罚的这个方式包含停权停权有它的不同的这个年数包含追回它的研究的补助"},{"start":779.61,"end":794.417,"text":"不能够得到研究奖励甚至还要追回过去的奖项等等有各种各样的所以情节严重的帮帮停权跟追回相关的补助都有我们都已经列入了都已经有了好 谢谢主委谢谢主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":684,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（11時26分）謝謝主席！請主委。"],["主席：有請主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：陳召委好。"],["陳委員秀寳：主委好。財劃法通過之後，大幅的影響中央及地方預算的分配比例，衝擊到中央政策的推動，國科會這邊也難以倖免會受到影響，我想請教主委的是，原先我們預期明年度的科技預算會編列到1,800億元，現在大概只能規劃到1,600億元，少了這200億元，主委您覺得會不會限制到我們臺灣科技的發展？對我們科研的量能會不會有所限制？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我當然覺得會限制啦！我們希望在政府經濟發展良好的時期能夠多投入，讓臺灣的實力可以快速再提升。"],["陳委員秀寳：主委您在受訪的時候也表示，因為地方政府的收入是增加的，希望未來地方可以配合中央的施政規劃，一起來創造更大的內需市場。我想請教國科會目前有預計哪些科技政策是需要地方政府一起來努力的？有沒有去協調地方跟中央如何來合作？"],["吳主任委員誠文：剛剛張委員在問到AI新十大建設時，我有提到我們要發展全民智慧生活圈，這個全民智慧生活圈將來推動的機制就是要發展智慧城市，全民透過智慧城市AI的雲端應用能夠連結在一起，這個一定需要地方政府跟中央政府來配合，能夠在需求端也就是全民……全民一定都有地方政府嘛！包含他們的需求還有地方的服務業、百工百業，像旅宿餐飲業、醫療健康照護業等等，這些產業都是在地方，地方政府在協作的時候，我們也希望能夠補助他們來應用我們科技產業所發展出來的這些AI產品跟應用服務，這樣搭配起來才有辦法讓我們社會發展。"],["陳委員秀寳：謝謝主委，其實我們推動科技的政策不只在研究，重要的是實踐，所以中央和地方要一起努力，也希望能夠達到主委您說的，我們是形成一個正向循環，但我會希望我們需要地方政府一起努力的或者說我們可以給它的這些建議能夠更具體。我們有怎樣的資源可以來相結合，提供給這些縣市政府做參考，結合我們現在有的技術、現在有的研究結果，提供給民眾在產學方面研究出來可以實踐的東西，這個有沒有更具體一點的計畫可以提供？"],["吳主任委員誠文：如果是產學合作，我們倒沒有特別限制。因為學者要跟產業界合作，他們要提計畫，這個要等到我們預算通過以後，因為預算都是中央部會編列的，預算通過以後，我們會去邀請學術界跟產業界一起合作來提出這些案子，所以我們不會限制題目。"],["陳委員秀寳：好的，謝謝主委！繼續剛剛講的財劃法這個問題，請問115年針對基礎科研的預算會不會再增加？會增加多少幅度？有沒有符合我們國科會想要強力扶植科研的力道？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們的經費緩步增加啦，我們明年的預算有微幅的增加，當然可能沒有到很讓學界滿意，但至少有增加。"],["陳委員秀寳：沒有讓學界很滿意，那主委你自己滿意嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我當然是期待明年的預算能夠編到1,800億元。"],["陳委員秀寳：近期媒體對國科會的計畫有報導了幾個問題，之前質詢的委員也都有提到，不知道主委你自己有沒有看過這樣的報導？報導內容對國科會計畫經費的運用以及研究經費凍漲，這些報導中都有著墨，其中還提到我們的學者是1塊錢當10塊錢在用，難怪國外的學者會稱我國的學術成果是臺灣奇蹟。報導裡面有提到國科會主委之前曾經公開直言，我們臺灣學術界幾十年來都沒有本土的諾貝爾科學獎得主是很羞恥的，那麼國科會是不是有在思考，其實我們國家提供給大學研究者的研究經費跟其他國家相較，實在是沒有辦法跟人家比，那國科會也不能覺得說這個責任在學者，國科會你們也有責任為學者、為研究者來爭取。","這邊有幾個問題想請教主委，針對國科會計畫變成是學者在校的業績，有申請到計畫或者金額會跟升等、續聘連動，如果沒有申請到計畫，等於計畫就停擺了，他的研究生涯可能就結束了，對此主委有什麼看法？"],["吳主任委員誠文：在計畫申請核定通過率方面，就全世界來講，我們其實算是高的，也就是在支持學界研究的部分，我們盡量讓願意做研究的學者都能夠得到國科會的補助，這一點我們是一直在努力當中啦！至於計畫能不能通過還要經過同儕的審查，也就是學界專家彼此要去互相審查，如果他的計畫沒有得到同領域學者之間的認同，我們也不會浪費納稅人的錢一定要去資助他，所以還是有個機制存在。"],["陳委員秀寳：有學者指出國科會核定的計畫經費沒有調漲，所以學者留不住優秀的研究助理，國科會對於沒有合理薪資、沒有合理待遇以致留不住優秀研究助理，我們可以有怎樣的方式來協助解決？"],["吳主任委員誠文：跟委員報告，其實計畫經費都有增加，但是我們把這個計畫經費核定到學校去以後，如果學校自己的內規沒有改，一直維持舊的薪資級距，那我們也沒有辦法，是學校自己要去修改他們的內規，國科會並沒有嚴格的限制，所以這個經費核定到學校去以後，學校是有個彈性可以核定研究助理的津貼的。"],["陳委員秀寳：剛才我有聽到主委您在回答時說你們會去研議一個合聘的制度，那是不是可以藉由這樣的方式來解決因為待遇不佳以致沒有辦法留住人才的問題？另外，針對學者認為目前國科會的經費會偏重政治導向，就是只注重國家要發展的項目，他們希望能夠做到預算透明化、項目透明化，且應該要有個監督機制一事，主委您的想法呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會所有的核定計畫都是公開的，所有的民眾、學者都可以看到國科會所核定的全部計畫，所以這個是全民在監督。"],["陳委員秀寳：當然，在預算上、在項目上是公開的，但在他們申請的時候，是不是會有一些偏重的領域呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：並不會，在基礎的研究部分，所有的學者都可以依他自己的興趣進行研究項目，這個我們沒有任何的限制；但是我們政府的一些科技政策，那是專案的項目，專案項目是額外加進來的，我們在基礎研究的部分，對自由的那種研究是完全沒有限制的，這一部分的經費，我們是逐年在增加，並沒有減少，是逐年在增加的。"],["陳委員秀寳：謝謝主委的說明，我還是要再問同樣的問題，剛剛提到說受財劃法的影響，目前的基礎科研經費，你們會維持不調整還是會再調整？會再增加嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們是希望增加啦！"],["陳委員秀寳：因為說真的，中央的預算變少，同樣的，我們國科會這邊的預算也會比預期的少，但你們希望增加，是有機會再調整的？"],["吳主任委員誠文：如果有機會調整，我們當然希望增加。譬如說現在我們要發射衛星，正緊鑼密鼓的進行，我們也把產業界帶進來了，如果能夠有更多的資源，當然速度可以加快，這樣才可以掌握……"],["陳委員秀寳：這個還是需要主委、需要國科會再努力，期待能為我們的學界爭取更多的資源，因為現在他們遇到的困難就是在申請經費的部分，誠如主委說的，申請沒有那麼不容易，但若預算沒有調整的話，面對現在的物價，面對現在百物齊漲的情況，他們可能沒有辦法去應付這樣的情況，那如果可以爭取到更多的資源、更多的預算給他們，他們在研究的時候，經費會更寬裕，這個部分也希望主委跟國科會來努力，為他們爭取。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員秀寳：接下來我想請教主委的是，我們學者要申請國科會的經費一定要遵守「國家科學及技術委員會補助專題研究計畫作業要點」，其中的規範很多針對的是研究計畫執行期間應該注意及遵守的事項，包含對於違反學術倫理、違反性平等等都有一些規範以及懲處，但若在研究計畫進行期間，計畫主持人對於研究助理有霸凌的狀況呢？除了學倫、性平等事情之外，可能還會有遇到霸凌的狀況，但是現行作業要點並沒有與霸凌相關的處置及規範，如果計畫主持人發生了霸凌研究團隊的事件，我們國科會有什麼作為？如果相關的主管機關查到是屬實的，我們這邊會不會有怎樣的處置？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有的，我們在學倫委員會裡面已經把霸凌這個項目涵蓋進來，所以委員會開會會一併討論這件事情。這一次我們在處理臺師大女足案時已經有考慮這個事了，相關的運作程序跟規範都已經納入。"],["陳委員秀寳：納入考慮後，什麼時候會有明確的相關規定？"],["吳主任委員誠文：現在已經有了，在我們的內規裡面都已經有了。"],["陳委員秀寳：在內規裡面都已經訂出來了？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，已經訂了。"],["陳委員秀寳：因為在學術研究的過程裡面，有時候上位者或者主持人也許可能在一些不經意的過程裡面，可能會對我們的研究人員、我們的團隊造成這樣的傷害，我們也希望是落實的，除了在性平方面、學倫方面外，在霸凌這塊我們也有注意到而且是會處理的。","我想請教一下，如果在學校的場域中發生這樣的事件，第一時間他們會提報到學校，由教育部來做相關的處置認定，那我們這邊的處置方式會是什麼？"],["吳主任委員誠文：國科會的處置方式是以執行研究計畫所產生的各種各樣的問題，所以這是學術倫理的部分，還有他們發表的論文等等，在學術的領域裡，只要相關的事實被認定以後，我們有各種處置懲罰的方式，包含停權……停權有不同的停權年數，包含追回他的研究補助、不能得到研究獎勵甚至還要追回過去的獎項等等，有各種各樣的方式。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以情節嚴重的包括停權跟追回相關的補助，這些我們都已經明確的列入？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，都已經有了。"],["陳委員秀寳：好，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["吳主任委員誠文：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳秀寳召委，主委請回。","接下來請葛如鈞委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":58,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-22-4","speakers":["陳秀寳","林沛祥","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","葉元之","羅廷瑋","范雲","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","張雅琳","葛如鈞","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","賴惠員","邱志偉","徐富癸","謝龍介"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148801_00001"}}}