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\"end\": 665.569, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 665.569, \"end\": 666.649, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 666.649, \"end\": 666.949, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 666.949, \"end\": 667.35, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 667.35, \"end\": 667.57, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 667.57, \"end\": 667.93, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 667.93, \"end\": 668.57, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 668.57, \"end\": 668.771, \"score\": 0.639}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 668.771, \"end\": 668.891, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 668.891, \"end\": 669.091, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 669.091, \"end\": 669.451, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 669.451, \"end\": 669.671, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 669.671, \"end\": 670.051, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 670.051, \"end\": 670.071, \"score\": 0.476}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 670.071, \"end\": 670.151, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 670.151, \"end\": 670.171, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 670.171, \"end\": 670.211, \"score\": 0.465}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 670.211, \"end\": 670.231, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 670.231, \"end\": 670.251, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,469 --> 00:00:00,929\n韓國人民日報\n\n2\n00:00:21,780 --> 00:00:40,415\n說緊急戒嚴的時候他們有個司令官來台灣尋求諮詢尋求支持然後我問你們有沒有抗議是不是有要求他更正你們上次跟我說說有要求他更正然後更正以後會不會通知我這個是我們上一次質詢的進度\n\n3\n00:00:42,079 --> 00:01:05,476\n那你們後續回覆我的東西我一定會追啊你們說有更正那問題是什麼問題是根本沒人家根本沒有理你啊你怎麼會跟我說有更正從頭到尾沒有更正啊現在網站上面的日期跟內容一模一樣從你們回覆我到現在到目前為止沒有任何更動\n\n4\n00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:23,032\n人家根本沒有更正啊你們怎麼會跟我說人家有更正我看不懂啊現在是在騙我嗎騙我會有什麼幫助嗎對我們台灣的信譽造成這麼大的傷害你們說有更正是在自我欺騙嗎來請部長\n\n5\n00:01:26,870 --> 00:01:49,446\n因為我剛剛看到委員的質詢是當時陳政次回應有關於更正就是說以總統府的那個說明為主但是委員剛剛提到是說我們要更正是要去駐韓的代表處要表達對這件事沒有啦我再跟你講一次過程上一次我問他的時候\n\n6\n00:01:50,707 --> 00:02:16,619\n說有更正他說答應要錄出再繼續追蹤我說一出更正消息可以把副本給我嗎陳明琦說沒問題結果回覆了我以後我一定去doublecheck我doublecheck的結果就是根本沒有更正你左手邊我又紅框框起來的是你們外交部回覆給我的內容右手邊是我查證的結果根本就沒有更正啊\n\n7\n00:02:17,868 --> 00:02:39,025\n如果委員如您所說我們有去交涉更正沒有更正也應該要回答委員如果我們去交涉而要求他更正有更正也要來說明所以我會在這件事情後續去追蹤這是上一趴的進度上一趴陳明祺就是這樣跟我講的啊我現在的問題是根本沒更正啊\n\n8\n00:02:40,220 --> 00:03:01,230\n那騙我說有事實上就沒有啊沒關係啦我不要一直在這個問題上面打轉啦部長也知道我的風格我一定追到底的啦回去以後請部長徹查瞭解這到底是怎麼回事是在自欺欺人還是在欺騙我還是覺得用混的就可以過去一個禮拜之內以書面回覆我可以嗎\n\n9\n00:03:02,352 --> 00:03:26,137\n可以好謝謝下一個問題我現在我們其實都支持中華民國台灣對外的外交那我們看過去從2016年以來我們邦交國的數量是越來越少當然這是中共的打壓全台灣人都知道中共打壓也不是現在開始中共打壓台灣很久了\n\n10\n00:03:27,413 --> 00:03:51,528\n過去四五十年來中共都在打壓台灣2016年以後可能打壓的力道比較強所以讓我們邦交國的數字從21個掉到現在剩12個今年我看了你們外交部的預算有援外的預算援外的預算該怎麼花花在什麼目的用途上面這個我們到審預算的時候好好講\n\n11\n00:03:52,540 --> 00:03:57,743\n但是我光從整個據實際上面的總數上面來看2016年員外的經費是90億\n\n12\n00:04:02,970 --> 00:04:07,173\n然後到了2019年大概都是90幾億到2020年開始變成100多億到2025年的時候是118億結果到2026年的時候暴漲到202億這樣子的經費這樣子的預算部長你要交給國人的成績單是什麼\n\n13\n00:04:26,643 --> 00:04:42,750\n我跟委員報告我們當然把12個邦交國收好以外很多理念相近的國家像中東歐包括菲律賓我們也要加強你的意思是說要更多錢12個邦交國才能收好嗎我們只有邦交國其實現在的任務業務也比以前多以外我們在擴展\n\n14\n00:04:43,610 --> 00:04:58,900\n非邦交國但事實上它的重要性也還邦交國比如說我剛剛講菲律賓那榮邦計畫我們相對來講其實立法院也通過對ODA希望要增加但我是有計畫的不是說我是增加了那麼多預算而是要做什麼事情\n\n15\n00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:18,661\n我想這個部分我跟我相信你一定有計畫沒關係我們審預算的時候再慢慢來看因為我們大的picture總是要讓台灣人民知道台灣人民很關心希望台灣在國際社會發光發亮我們支持我們的外交台灣人也都用稅收\n\n16\n00:05:19,602 --> 00:05:26,330\n去讓我們的官員去做外交總是希望看到成績嘛從2016年的90幾億現在到2026年暴漲到200多億我們總是要告訴國人說我們打算要交出什麼成績單才能夠正當化這個錢啊\n\n17\n00:05:35,140 --> 00:05:54,829\n那要不然我如果給兩百多億跟給九十億交出來的成績單一樣那大家就會問啊中間的一百多億跑到哪裡去啦這就延續到了我之前一直跟部長所強調的我反對金錢外交我反對金錢外交我反對金錢外交啊我講過很多次啦\n\n18\n00:05:56,036 --> 00:06:11,688\n當初民進黨政府也說要用價值外交嘛那價值外交後來看價值外交恐怕沒有辦法合理的說明外交部的一些具體作為所以現在呢用了一個新的名詞叫總和外交了價值外交不談了啦\n\n19\n00:06:12,548 --> 00:06:32,495\n因為蔡英文總統在講的價值外交我看了很多次嘛現在有個新名詞總和外交總和外交裡面有一個部分叫價值外交我幫部長回答了啦對啦總和外交裡面有價值外交那當然還有一些其他的東西嘛然後其他的東西當然就會涉及到錢嘛來我們來看一下錢卡貝獨裁者的金庫這個是我那個時候\n\n20\n00:06:39,039 --> 00:07:02,339\n在吹哨者協會跟國際的反貪腐組織OCCRP我們合作的企劃我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我們跟國際的反貪腐組織一起關心台灣作為最大股東的中美洲銀行錢跑到哪裡去了是真的去輔助弱勢小孩婦女\n\n21\n00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:16,174\n還是跑去被胡搞瞎搞變成所謂獨裁者的金庫這個標題其實不是我想的這個標題是OCCRP用英文表示翻成中文當然因為這個樣子\n\n22\n00:07:19,497 --> 00:07:45,771\n之前的總裁也下台了嘛直接被轟下台嘛最近新的總裁來做一些改革你看我功課做得多好新的總裁來你還跟他合照我都準備好了我就知道你會這樣講所以我知道你跟新的總裁有碰面嘛然後他們新的辦事處搬到天母使館特區嘛你也有去嘛剩下不到一成\n\n23\n00:07:46,351 --> 00:07:59,866\n蛤我說也讓他租金改革啦你說委員講的他內部外部都要進行改革你知不知道卡貝本來在台灣這邊的辦事處在哪101啊101嘛你知不知道那時候裝潢花多少錢我們現在就是把他改\n\n24\n00:08:04,276 --> 00:08:20,311\n換到地方我們那個天母那個地方租金現在就剩下十分之一而且就近跟我們卡貝的國家包括瓜地馬拉貝里斯可以合處辦公大家一起合作我同意委員之前的這些這個指導的意見\n\n25\n00:08:21,132 --> 00:08:48,131\n那我們就是當然要善用我們在卡貝還有包括歐銀亞銀的我們的這一些資金要用於我們的榮邦計畫這個是一個第二個就是要把這個改革要大幅度的進行這樣子會比較快啦2021年在101租了一大片辦公室裝潢花上千萬裝潢花三千萬年租金七百萬\n\n26\n00:08:49,670 --> 00:09:14,995\n那個時候我跟他們一起在調查的時候我看到卡貝裡面的這個內臟我看了臉都綠了台灣是第一大股東啊如果不關我們台灣的事情我管這些中美洲國家他們愛怎麼亂花錢他們家的事啊我關心的是台灣是第一大股東啊台灣人有沒有被當盤子啊錢拿去中美洲銀行給他們這樣胡搞瞎搞\n\n27\n00:09:15,970 --> 00:09:38,965\n我看了裝潢費高達上千萬年租金七百萬我的老天啊在台灣是有什麼特殊重要的任務任務很龐雜會搞成這個樣子啊那但是我也不是看紙上的資料以後就在那邊腦補篇故事啊我那時候做了什麼事那個時候一定是實地考察實地考察跑去Cafe101的大樓看\n\n28\n00:09:40,425 --> 00:09:59,719\n哇裡面真的是氣派豪華裝潢非常的好啊但是有個特色我跟部長報告叫做空蕩蕩很氣派的辦公室裝潢非常的好加上司機總共多少人用那個辦公室空間部長你知不知道\n\n29\n00:10:02,686 --> 00:10:16,165\n五個人五個人搶運獎搞起來五個人在101大樓好氣派的辦公室裡面都沒有人是這樣在花台灣納稅人的錢\n\n30\n00:10:17,569 --> 00:10:41,856\n當初101開幕的時候我們也有大官去拍照啦就像你這一次到天母特區跟他拍照一樣我們那個是合宿辦公啦比較便宜啦是啦所以我就肯定你嘛我肯定你的改革嘛上一次鋪張浪費嘛幫我們當盤子嘛現在終於發現只要十分之一的租金啊這個就是我要跟部長交換了這個就是監督的價值這個就是監督的力量不要再說齁\n\n31\n00:10:46,857 --> 00:11:10,251\n哇不給你們錢去揮霍就是不支持台灣的外交中美洲銀行對台灣很重要有國際重要的戰略位置不給他錢就是不支持台灣的外交我們當然支持台灣的外交我不支持的是什麼我不支持的是這樣子胡搞瞎搞所以接下來在預算審查的時候我們一定就事論事好好進行實質的審查好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n469\t929\t韓國人民日報\n21780\t40415\t說緊急戒嚴的時候他們有個司令官來台灣尋求諮詢尋求支持然後我問你們有沒有抗議是不是有要求他更正你們上次跟我說說有要求他更正然後更正以後會不會通知我這個是我們上一次質詢的進度\n42079\t65476\t那你們後續回覆我的東西我一定會追啊你們說有更正那問題是什麼問題是根本沒人家根本沒有理你啊你怎麼會跟我說有更正從頭到尾沒有更正啊現在網站上面的日期跟內容一模一樣從你們回覆我到現在到目前為止沒有任何更動\n66960\t83032\t人家根本沒有更正啊你們怎麼會跟我說人家有更正我看不懂啊現在是在騙我嗎騙我會有什麼幫助嗎對我們台灣的信譽造成這麼大的傷害你們說有更正是在自我欺騙嗎來 請部長\n86870\t109446\t因為我剛剛看到委員的質詢是當時陳政次回應有關於更正就是說以總統府的那個說明為主但是委員剛剛提到是說我們要更正是要去駐韓的代表處要表達對這件事沒有啦我再跟你講一次過程上一次我問他的時候\n110707\t136619\t說有更正他說答應要錄出再繼續追蹤我說一出更正消息可以把副本給我嗎陳明琦說沒問題結果回覆了我以後我一定去double check我double check的結果就是根本沒有更正你左手邊我又紅框框起來的是你們外交部回覆給我的內容右手邊是我查證的結果根本就沒有更正啊\n137868\t159025\t如果委員如您所說我們有去交涉更正沒有更正也應該要回答委員如果我們去交涉而要求他更正有更正也要來說明所以我會在這件事情後續去追蹤這是上一趴的進度上一趴陳明祺就是這樣跟我講的啊我現在的問題是根本沒更正啊\n160220\t181230\t那騙我說有事實上就沒有啊沒關係啦我不要一直在這個問題上面打轉啦部長也知道我的風格我一定追到底的啦回去以後請部長徹查瞭解這到底是怎麼回事是在自欺欺人還是在欺騙我還是覺得用混的就可以過去一個禮拜之內以書面回覆我可以嗎\n182352\t206137\t可以好 謝謝下一個問題我現在我們其實都支持中華民國台灣對外的外交那我們看過去從2016年以來我們邦交國的數量是越來越少當然這是中共的打壓全台灣人都知道中共打壓也不是現在開始中共打壓台灣很久了\n207413\t231528\t過去四五十年來中共都在打壓台灣2016年以後可能打壓的力道比較強所以讓我們邦交國的數字從21個掉到現在剩12個今年我看了你們外交部的預算有援外的預算援外的預算該怎麼花花在什麼目的用途上面這個我們到審預算的時候好好講\n232540\t237743\t但是我光從整個據實際上面的總數上面來看2016年 員外的經費是90億\n242970\t247173\t然後到了2019年大概都是90幾億到2020年開始變成100多億到2025年的時候是118億結果到2026年的時候暴漲到202億這樣子的經費這樣子的預算部長你要交給國人的成績單是什麼\n266643\t282750\t我跟委員報告我們當然把12個邦交國收好以外很多理念相近的國家像中東歐包括菲律賓我們也要加強你的意思是說要更多錢12個邦交國才能收好嗎我們只有邦交國其實現在的任務業務也比以前多以外我們在擴展\n283610\t298900\t非邦交國 但事實上它的重要性也還邦交國比如說我剛剛講菲律賓 那榮邦計畫我們相對來講 其實立法院也通過對ODA希望要增加但我是有計畫的 不是說我是增加了那麼多預算 而是要做什麼事情\n299600\t318661\t我想這個部分我跟我相信你一定有計畫沒關係我們審預算的時候再慢慢來看因為我們大的picture總是要讓台灣人民知道台灣人民很關心希望台灣在國際社會發光發亮我們支持我們的外交台灣人也都用稅收\n319602\t326330\t去讓我們的官員去做外交總是希望看到成績嘛從2016年的90幾億現在到2026年暴漲到200多億我們總是要告訴國人說我們打算要交出什麼成績單才能夠正當化這個錢啊\n335140\t354829\t那要不然我如果給兩百多億跟給九十億交出來的成績單一樣那大家就會問啊中間的一百多億跑到哪裡去啦這就延續到了我之前一直跟部長所強調的我反對金錢外交我反對金錢外交我反對金錢外交啊我講過很多次啦\n356036\t371688\t當初民進黨政府也說要用價值外交嘛那價值外交後來看價值外交恐怕沒有辦法合理的說明外交部的一些具體作為所以現在呢用了一個新的名詞叫總和外交了價值外交不談了啦\n372548\t392495\t因為蔡英文總統在講的價值外交我看了很多次嘛現在有個新名詞 總和外交總和外交裡面有一個部分叫價值外交我幫部長回答了啦對啦 總和外交裡面有價值外交那當然還有一些其他的東西嘛然後其他的東西當然就會涉及到錢嘛來 我們來看一下錢卡貝 獨裁者的金庫這個是我那個時候\n399039\t422339\t在吹哨者協會跟國際的反貪腐組織OCCRP我們合作的企劃我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我們跟國際的反貪腐組織一起關心台灣作為最大股東的中美洲銀行錢跑到哪裡去了是真的去輔助弱勢小孩婦女\n423420\t436174\t還是跑去被胡搞瞎搞變成所謂獨裁者的金庫這個標題其實不是我想的這個標題是OCCRP用英文表示 翻成中文當然 因為這個樣子\n439497\t465771\t之前的總裁也下台了嘛 直接被轟下台嘛最近新的總裁來做一些改革你看我功課做得多好 新的總裁來你還跟他合照 我都準備好了我就知道你會這樣講所以我知道你跟新的總裁有碰面嘛然後他們新的辦事處搬到天母使館特區嘛你也有去嘛 剩下不到一成\n466351\t479866\t蛤 我說也讓他租金改革啦你說委員講的他內部外部都要進行改革你知不知道卡貝本來在台灣這邊的辦事處在哪101啊101嘛 你知不知道那時候裝潢花多少錢我們現在就是把他改\n484276\t500311\t換到地方我們那個天母那個地方租金現在就剩下十分之一而且就近跟我們卡貝的國家包括瓜地馬拉貝里斯可以合處辦公大家一起合作我同意委員之前的這些這個指導的意見\n501132\t528131\t那我們就是 當然要善用我們在卡貝還有包括歐銀 亞銀的我們的這一些資金要用於我們的榮邦計畫 這個是一個第二個就是要把這個改革要大幅度的進行這樣子會比較快啦2021年在101租了一大片辦公室裝潢花上千萬裝潢花三千萬年租金七百萬\n529670\t554995\t那個時候我跟他們一起在調查的時候我看到卡貝裡面的這個內臟我看了臉都綠了台灣是第一大股東啊如果不關我們台灣的事情我管這些中美洲國家他們愛怎麼亂花錢他們家的事啊我關心的是台灣是第一大股東啊台灣人有沒有被當盤子啊錢拿去中美洲銀行給他們這樣胡搞瞎搞\n555970\t578965\t我看了裝潢費高達上千萬年租金七百萬我的老天啊在台灣是有什麼特殊重要的任務任務很龐雜會搞成這個樣子啊那但是我也不是看紙上的資料以後就在那邊腦補篇故事啊我那時候做了什麼事那個時候一定是實地考察實地考察跑去Cafe 101的大樓看\n580425\t599719\t哇 裡面真的是氣派豪華裝潢非常的好啊但是有個特色 我跟部長報告叫做空蕩蕩很氣派的辦公室裝潢非常的好加上司機總共多少人用那個辦公室空間部長你知不知道\n602686\t616165\t五個人五個人 搶運獎搞起來五個人在101大樓好氣派的辦公室裡面都沒有人是這樣在花台灣納稅人的錢\n617569\t641856\t當初101開幕的時候我們也有大官去拍照啦就像你這一次到天母特區跟他拍照一樣我們那個是合宿辦公啦 比較便宜啦是啦 所以我就肯定你嘛我肯定你的改革嘛上一次鋪張浪費嘛幫我們當盤子嘛現在終於發現只要十分之一的租金啊這個就是我要跟部長交換了這個就是監督的價值這個就是監督的力量不要再說齁\n646857\t670251\t哇 不給你們錢去揮霍就是不支持台灣的外交中美洲銀行對台灣很重要有國際重要的戰略位置不給他錢就是不支持台灣的外交我們當然支持台灣的外交我不支持的是什麼我不支持的是這樣子胡搞瞎搞所以接下來在預算審查的時候我們一定就事論事好好進行實質的審查好 謝謝\n","txt":"韓國人民日報\n說緊急戒嚴的時候他們有個司令官來台灣尋求諮詢尋求支持然後我問你們有沒有抗議是不是有要求他更正你們上次跟我說說有要求他更正然後更正以後會不會通知我這個是我們上一次質詢的進度\n那你們後續回覆我的東西我一定會追啊你們說有更正那問題是什麼問題是根本沒人家根本沒有理你啊你怎麼會跟我說有更正從頭到尾沒有更正啊現在網站上面的日期跟內容一模一樣從你們回覆我到現在到目前為止沒有任何更動\n人家根本沒有更正啊你們怎麼會跟我說人家有更正我看不懂啊現在是在騙我嗎騙我會有什麼幫助嗎對我們台灣的信譽造成這麼大的傷害你們說有更正是在自我欺騙嗎來 請部長\n因為我剛剛看到委員的質詢是當時陳政次回應有關於更正就是說以總統府的那個說明為主但是委員剛剛提到是說我們要更正是要去駐韓的代表處要表達對這件事沒有啦我再跟你講一次過程上一次我問他的時候\n說有更正他說答應要錄出再繼續追蹤我說一出更正消息可以把副本給我嗎陳明琦說沒問題結果回覆了我以後我一定去double check我double check的結果就是根本沒有更正你左手邊我又紅框框起來的是你們外交部回覆給我的內容右手邊是我查證的結果根本就沒有更正啊\n如果委員如您所說我們有去交涉更正沒有更正也應該要回答委員如果我們去交涉而要求他更正有更正也要來說明所以我會在這件事情後續去追蹤這是上一趴的進度上一趴陳明祺就是這樣跟我講的啊我現在的問題是根本沒更正啊\n那騙我說有事實上就沒有啊沒關係啦我不要一直在這個問題上面打轉啦部長也知道我的風格我一定追到底的啦回去以後請部長徹查瞭解這到底是怎麼回事是在自欺欺人還是在欺騙我還是覺得用混的就可以過去一個禮拜之內以書面回覆我可以嗎\n可以好 謝謝下一個問題我現在我們其實都支持中華民國台灣對外的外交那我們看過去從2016年以來我們邦交國的數量是越來越少當然這是中共的打壓全台灣人都知道中共打壓也不是現在開始中共打壓台灣很久了\n過去四五十年來中共都在打壓台灣2016年以後可能打壓的力道比較強所以讓我們邦交國的數字從21個掉到現在剩12個今年我看了你們外交部的預算有援外的預算援外的預算該怎麼花花在什麼目的用途上面這個我們到審預算的時候好好講\n但是我光從整個據實際上面的總數上面來看2016年 員外的經費是90億\n然後到了2019年大概都是90幾億到2020年開始變成100多億到2025年的時候是118億結果到2026年的時候暴漲到202億這樣子的經費這樣子的預算部長你要交給國人的成績單是什麼\n我跟委員報告我們當然把12個邦交國收好以外很多理念相近的國家像中東歐包括菲律賓我們也要加強你的意思是說要更多錢12個邦交國才能收好嗎我們只有邦交國其實現在的任務業務也比以前多以外我們在擴展\n非邦交國 但事實上它的重要性也還邦交國比如說我剛剛講菲律賓 那榮邦計畫我們相對來講 其實立法院也通過對ODA希望要增加但我是有計畫的 不是說我是增加了那麼多預算 而是要做什麼事情\n我想這個部分我跟我相信你一定有計畫沒關係我們審預算的時候再慢慢來看因為我們大的picture總是要讓台灣人民知道台灣人民很關心希望台灣在國際社會發光發亮我們支持我們的外交台灣人也都用稅收\n去讓我們的官員去做外交總是希望看到成績嘛從2016年的90幾億現在到2026年暴漲到200多億我們總是要告訴國人說我們打算要交出什麼成績單才能夠正當化這個錢啊\n那要不然我如果給兩百多億跟給九十億交出來的成績單一樣那大家就會問啊中間的一百多億跑到哪裡去啦這就延續到了我之前一直跟部長所強調的我反對金錢外交我反對金錢外交我反對金錢外交啊我講過很多次啦\n當初民進黨政府也說要用價值外交嘛那價值外交後來看價值外交恐怕沒有辦法合理的說明外交部的一些具體作為所以現在呢用了一個新的名詞叫總和外交了價值外交不談了啦\n因為蔡英文總統在講的價值外交我看了很多次嘛現在有個新名詞 總和外交總和外交裡面有一個部分叫價值外交我幫部長回答了啦對啦 總和外交裡面有價值外交那當然還有一些其他的東西嘛然後其他的東西當然就會涉及到錢嘛來 我們來看一下錢卡貝 獨裁者的金庫這個是我那個時候\n在吹哨者協會跟國際的反貪腐組織OCCRP我們合作的企劃我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我們跟國際的反貪腐組織一起關心台灣作為最大股東的中美洲銀行錢跑到哪裡去了是真的去輔助弱勢小孩婦女\n還是跑去被胡搞瞎搞變成所謂獨裁者的金庫這個標題其實不是我想的這個標題是OCCRP用英文表示 翻成中文當然 因為這個樣子\n之前的總裁也下台了嘛 直接被轟下台嘛最近新的總裁來做一些改革你看我功課做得多好 新的總裁來你還跟他合照 我都準備好了我就知道你會這樣講所以我知道你跟新的總裁有碰面嘛然後他們新的辦事處搬到天母使館特區嘛你也有去嘛 剩下不到一成\n蛤 我說也讓他租金改革啦你說委員講的他內部外部都要進行改革你知不知道卡貝本來在台灣這邊的辦事處在哪101啊101嘛 你知不知道那時候裝潢花多少錢我們現在就是把他改\n換到地方我們那個天母那個地方租金現在就剩下十分之一而且就近跟我們卡貝的國家包括瓜地馬拉貝里斯可以合處辦公大家一起合作我同意委員之前的這些這個指導的意見\n那我們就是 當然要善用我們在卡貝還有包括歐銀 亞銀的我們的這一些資金要用於我們的榮邦計畫 這個是一個第二個就是要把這個改革要大幅度的進行這樣子會比較快啦2021年在101租了一大片辦公室裝潢花上千萬裝潢花三千萬年租金七百萬\n那個時候我跟他們一起在調查的時候我看到卡貝裡面的這個內臟我看了臉都綠了台灣是第一大股東啊如果不關我們台灣的事情我管這些中美洲國家他們愛怎麼亂花錢他們家的事啊我關心的是台灣是第一大股東啊台灣人有沒有被當盤子啊錢拿去中美洲銀行給他們這樣胡搞瞎搞\n我看了裝潢費高達上千萬年租金七百萬我的老天啊在台灣是有什麼特殊重要的任務任務很龐雜會搞成這個樣子啊那但是我也不是看紙上的資料以後就在那邊腦補篇故事啊我那時候做了什麼事那個時候一定是實地考察實地考察跑去Cafe 101的大樓看\n哇 裡面真的是氣派豪華裝潢非常的好啊但是有個特色 我跟部長報告叫做空蕩蕩很氣派的辦公室裝潢非常的好加上司機總共多少人用那個辦公室空間部長你知不知道\n五個人五個人 搶運獎搞起來五個人在101大樓好氣派的辦公室裡面都沒有人是這樣在花台灣納稅人的錢\n當初101開幕的時候我們也有大官去拍照啦就像你這一次到天母特區跟他拍照一樣我們那個是合宿辦公啦 比較便宜啦是啦 所以我就肯定你嘛我肯定你的改革嘛上一次鋪張浪費嘛幫我們當盤子嘛現在終於發現只要十分之一的租金啊這個就是我要跟部長交換了這個就是監督的價值這個就是監督的力量不要再說齁\n哇 不給你們錢去揮霍就是不支持台灣的外交中美洲銀行對台灣很重要有國際重要的戰略位置不給他錢就是不支持台灣的外交我們當然支持台灣的外交我不支持的是什麼我不支持的是這樣子胡搞瞎搞所以接下來在預算審查的時候我們一定就事論事好好進行實質的審查好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.469 --> 00:00.929\n韓國人民日報\n\n00:21.780 --> 00:40.415\n說緊急戒嚴的時候他們有個司令官來台灣尋求諮詢尋求支持然後我問你們有沒有抗議是不是有要求他更正你們上次跟我說說有要求他更正然後更正以後會不會通知我這個是我們上一次質詢的進度\n\n00:42.079 --> 01:05.476\n那你們後續回覆我的東西我一定會追啊你們說有更正那問題是什麼問題是根本沒人家根本沒有理你啊你怎麼會跟我說有更正從頭到尾沒有更正啊現在網站上面的日期跟內容一模一樣從你們回覆我到現在到目前為止沒有任何更動\n\n01:06.960 --> 01:23.032\n人家根本沒有更正啊你們怎麼會跟我說人家有更正我看不懂啊現在是在騙我嗎騙我會有什麼幫助嗎對我們台灣的信譽造成這麼大的傷害你們說有更正是在自我欺騙嗎來請部長\n\n01:26.870 --> 01:49.446\n因為我剛剛看到委員的質詢是當時陳政次回應有關於更正就是說以總統府的那個說明為主但是委員剛剛提到是說我們要更正是要去駐韓的代表處要表達對這件事沒有啦我再跟你講一次過程上一次我問他的時候\n\n01:50.707 --> 02:16.619\n說有更正他說答應要錄出再繼續追蹤我說一出更正消息可以把副本給我嗎陳明琦說沒問題結果回覆了我以後我一定去doublecheck我doublecheck的結果就是根本沒有更正你左手邊我又紅框框起來的是你們外交部回覆給我的內容右手邊是我查證的結果根本就沒有更正啊\n\n02:17.868 --> 02:39.025\n如果委員如您所說我們有去交涉更正沒有更正也應該要回答委員如果我們去交涉而要求他更正有更正也要來說明所以我會在這件事情後續去追蹤這是上一趴的進度上一趴陳明祺就是這樣跟我講的啊我現在的問題是根本沒更正啊\n\n02:40.220 --> 03:01.230\n那騙我說有事實上就沒有啊沒關係啦我不要一直在這個問題上面打轉啦部長也知道我的風格我一定追到底的啦回去以後請部長徹查瞭解這到底是怎麼回事是在自欺欺人還是在欺騙我還是覺得用混的就可以過去一個禮拜之內以書面回覆我可以嗎\n\n03:02.352 --> 03:26.137\n可以好謝謝下一個問題我現在我們其實都支持中華民國台灣對外的外交那我們看過去從2016年以來我們邦交國的數量是越來越少當然這是中共的打壓全台灣人都知道中共打壓也不是現在開始中共打壓台灣很久了\n\n03:27.413 --> 03:51.528\n過去四五十年來中共都在打壓台灣2016年以後可能打壓的力道比較強所以讓我們邦交國的數字從21個掉到現在剩12個今年我看了你們外交部的預算有援外的預算援外的預算該怎麼花花在什麼目的用途上面這個我們到審預算的時候好好講\n\n03:52.540 --> 03:57.743\n但是我光從整個據實際上面的總數上面來看2016年員外的經費是90億\n\n04:02.970 --> 04:07.173\n然後到了2019年大概都是90幾億到2020年開始變成100多億到2025年的時候是118億結果到2026年的時候暴漲到202億這樣子的經費這樣子的預算部長你要交給國人的成績單是什麼\n\n04:26.643 --> 04:42.750\n我跟委員報告我們當然把12個邦交國收好以外很多理念相近的國家像中東歐包括菲律賓我們也要加強你的意思是說要更多錢12個邦交國才能收好嗎我們只有邦交國其實現在的任務業務也比以前多以外我們在擴展\n\n04:43.610 --> 04:58.900\n非邦交國但事實上它的重要性也還邦交國比如說我剛剛講菲律賓那榮邦計畫我們相對來講其實立法院也通過對ODA希望要增加但我是有計畫的不是說我是增加了那麼多預算而是要做什麼事情\n\n04:59.600 --> 05:18.661\n我想這個部分我跟我相信你一定有計畫沒關係我們審預算的時候再慢慢來看因為我們大的picture總是要讓台灣人民知道台灣人民很關心希望台灣在國際社會發光發亮我們支持我們的外交台灣人也都用稅收\n\n05:19.602 --> 05:26.330\n去讓我們的官員去做外交總是希望看到成績嘛從2016年的90幾億現在到2026年暴漲到200多億我們總是要告訴國人說我們打算要交出什麼成績單才能夠正當化這個錢啊\n\n05:35.140 --> 05:54.829\n那要不然我如果給兩百多億跟給九十億交出來的成績單一樣那大家就會問啊中間的一百多億跑到哪裡去啦這就延續到了我之前一直跟部長所強調的我反對金錢外交我反對金錢外交我反對金錢外交啊我講過很多次啦\n\n05:56.036 --> 06:11.688\n當初民進黨政府也說要用價值外交嘛那價值外交後來看價值外交恐怕沒有辦法合理的說明外交部的一些具體作為所以現在呢用了一個新的名詞叫總和外交了價值外交不談了啦\n\n06:12.548 --> 06:32.495\n因為蔡英文總統在講的價值外交我看了很多次嘛現在有個新名詞總和外交總和外交裡面有一個部分叫價值外交我幫部長回答了啦對啦總和外交裡面有價值外交那當然還有一些其他的東西嘛然後其他的東西當然就會涉及到錢嘛來我們來看一下錢卡貝獨裁者的金庫這個是我那個時候\n\n06:39.039 --> 07:02.339\n在吹哨者協會跟國際的反貪腐組織OCCRP我們合作的企劃我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我們跟國際的反貪腐組織一起關心台灣作為最大股東的中美洲銀行錢跑到哪裡去了是真的去輔助弱勢小孩婦女\n\n07:03.420 --> 07:16.174\n還是跑去被胡搞瞎搞變成所謂獨裁者的金庫這個標題其實不是我想的這個標題是OCCRP用英文表示翻成中文當然因為這個樣子\n\n07:19.497 --> 07:45.771\n之前的總裁也下台了嘛直接被轟下台嘛最近新的總裁來做一些改革你看我功課做得多好新的總裁來你還跟他合照我都準備好了我就知道你會這樣講所以我知道你跟新的總裁有碰面嘛然後他們新的辦事處搬到天母使館特區嘛你也有去嘛剩下不到一成\n\n07:46.351 --> 07:59.866\n蛤我說也讓他租金改革啦你說委員講的他內部外部都要進行改革你知不知道卡貝本來在台灣這邊的辦事處在哪101啊101嘛你知不知道那時候裝潢花多少錢我們現在就是把他改\n\n08:04.276 --> 08:20.311\n換到地方我們那個天母那個地方租金現在就剩下十分之一而且就近跟我們卡貝的國家包括瓜地馬拉貝里斯可以合處辦公大家一起合作我同意委員之前的這些這個指導的意見\n\n08:21.132 --> 08:48.131\n那我們就是當然要善用我們在卡貝還有包括歐銀亞銀的我們的這一些資金要用於我們的榮邦計畫這個是一個第二個就是要把這個改革要大幅度的進行這樣子會比較快啦2021年在101租了一大片辦公室裝潢花上千萬裝潢花三千萬年租金七百萬\n\n08:49.670 --> 09:14.995\n那個時候我跟他們一起在調查的時候我看到卡貝裡面的這個內臟我看了臉都綠了台灣是第一大股東啊如果不關我們台灣的事情我管這些中美洲國家他們愛怎麼亂花錢他們家的事啊我關心的是台灣是第一大股東啊台灣人有沒有被當盤子啊錢拿去中美洲銀行給他們這樣胡搞瞎搞\n\n09:15.970 --> 09:38.965\n我看了裝潢費高達上千萬年租金七百萬我的老天啊在台灣是有什麼特殊重要的任務任務很龐雜會搞成這個樣子啊那但是我也不是看紙上的資料以後就在那邊腦補篇故事啊我那時候做了什麼事那個時候一定是實地考察實地考察跑去Cafe101的大樓看\n\n09:40.425 --> 09:59.719\n哇裡面真的是氣派豪華裝潢非常的好啊但是有個特色我跟部長報告叫做空蕩蕩很氣派的辦公室裝潢非常的好加上司機總共多少人用那個辦公室空間部長你知不知道\n\n10:02.686 --> 10:16.165\n五個人五個人搶運獎搞起來五個人在101大樓好氣派的辦公室裡面都沒有人是這樣在花台灣納稅人的錢\n\n10:17.569 --> 10:41.856\n當初101開幕的時候我們也有大官去拍照啦就像你這一次到天母特區跟他拍照一樣我們那個是合宿辦公啦比較便宜啦是啦所以我就肯定你嘛我肯定你的改革嘛上一次鋪張浪費嘛幫我們當盤子嘛現在終於發現只要十分之一的租金啊這個就是我要跟部長交換了這個就是監督的價值這個就是監督的力量不要再說齁\n\n10:46.857 --> 11:10.251\n哇不給你們錢去揮霍就是不支持台灣的外交中美洲銀行對台灣很重要有國際重要的戰略位置不給他錢就是不支持台灣的外交我們當然支持台灣的外交我不支持的是什麼我不支持的是這樣子胡搞瞎搞所以接下來在預算審查的時候我們一定就事論事好好進行實質的審查好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.469,"end":0.929,"text":"韓國人民日報"},{"start":21.78,"end":40.415,"text":"說緊急戒嚴的時候他們有個司令官來台灣尋求諮詢尋求支持然後我問你們有沒有抗議是不是有要求他更正你們上次跟我說說有要求他更正然後更正以後會不會通知我這個是我們上一次質詢的進度"},{"start":42.079,"end":65.476,"text":"那你們後續回覆我的東西我一定會追啊你們說有更正那問題是什麼問題是根本沒人家根本沒有理你啊你怎麼會跟我說有更正從頭到尾沒有更正啊現在網站上面的日期跟內容一模一樣從你們回覆我到現在到目前為止沒有任何更動"},{"start":66.96,"end":83.032,"text":"人家根本沒有更正啊你們怎麼會跟我說人家有更正我看不懂啊現在是在騙我嗎騙我會有什麼幫助嗎對我們台灣的信譽造成這麼大的傷害你們說有更正是在自我欺騙嗎來 請部長"},{"start":86.87,"end":109.446,"text":"因為我剛剛看到委員的質詢是當時陳政次回應有關於更正就是說以總統府的那個說明為主但是委員剛剛提到是說我們要更正是要去駐韓的代表處要表達對這件事沒有啦我再跟你講一次過程上一次我問他的時候"},{"start":110.707,"end":136.619,"text":"說有更正他說答應要錄出再繼續追蹤我說一出更正消息可以把副本給我嗎陳明琦說沒問題結果回覆了我以後我一定去double check我double check的結果就是根本沒有更正你左手邊我又紅框框起來的是你們外交部回覆給我的內容右手邊是我查證的結果根本就沒有更正啊"},{"start":137.868,"end":159.025,"text":"如果委員如您所說我們有去交涉更正沒有更正也應該要回答委員如果我們去交涉而要求他更正有更正也要來說明所以我會在這件事情後續去追蹤這是上一趴的進度上一趴陳明祺就是這樣跟我講的啊我現在的問題是根本沒更正啊"},{"start":160.22,"end":181.23,"text":"那騙我說有事實上就沒有啊沒關係啦我不要一直在這個問題上面打轉啦部長也知道我的風格我一定追到底的啦回去以後請部長徹查瞭解這到底是怎麼回事是在自欺欺人還是在欺騙我還是覺得用混的就可以過去一個禮拜之內以書面回覆我可以嗎"},{"start":182.352,"end":206.137,"text":"可以好 謝謝下一個問題我現在我們其實都支持中華民國台灣對外的外交那我們看過去從2016年以來我們邦交國的數量是越來越少當然這是中共的打壓全台灣人都知道中共打壓也不是現在開始中共打壓台灣很久了"},{"start":207.413,"end":231.528,"text":"過去四五十年來中共都在打壓台灣2016年以後可能打壓的力道比較強所以讓我們邦交國的數字從21個掉到現在剩12個今年我看了你們外交部的預算有援外的預算援外的預算該怎麼花花在什麼目的用途上面這個我們到審預算的時候好好講"},{"start":232.54,"end":237.743,"text":"但是我光從整個據實際上面的總數上面來看2016年 員外的經費是90億"},{"start":242.97,"end":247.173,"text":"然後到了2019年大概都是90幾億到2020年開始變成100多億到2025年的時候是118億結果到2026年的時候暴漲到202億這樣子的經費這樣子的預算部長你要交給國人的成績單是什麼"},{"start":266.643,"end":282.75,"text":"我跟委員報告我們當然把12個邦交國收好以外很多理念相近的國家像中東歐包括菲律賓我們也要加強你的意思是說要更多錢12個邦交國才能收好嗎我們只有邦交國其實現在的任務業務也比以前多以外我們在擴展"},{"start":283.61,"end":298.9,"text":"非邦交國 但事實上它的重要性也還邦交國比如說我剛剛講菲律賓 那榮邦計畫我們相對來講 其實立法院也通過對ODA希望要增加但我是有計畫的 不是說我是增加了那麼多預算 而是要做什麼事情"},{"start":299.6,"end":318.661,"text":"我想這個部分我跟我相信你一定有計畫沒關係我們審預算的時候再慢慢來看因為我們大的picture總是要讓台灣人民知道台灣人民很關心希望台灣在國際社會發光發亮我們支持我們的外交台灣人也都用稅收"},{"start":319.602,"end":326.33,"text":"去讓我們的官員去做外交總是希望看到成績嘛從2016年的90幾億現在到2026年暴漲到200多億我們總是要告訴國人說我們打算要交出什麼成績單才能夠正當化這個錢啊"},{"start":335.14,"end":354.829,"text":"那要不然我如果給兩百多億跟給九十億交出來的成績單一樣那大家就會問啊中間的一百多億跑到哪裡去啦這就延續到了我之前一直跟部長所強調的我反對金錢外交我反對金錢外交我反對金錢外交啊我講過很多次啦"},{"start":356.036,"end":371.688,"text":"當初民進黨政府也說要用價值外交嘛那價值外交後來看價值外交恐怕沒有辦法合理的說明外交部的一些具體作為所以現在呢用了一個新的名詞叫總和外交了價值外交不談了啦"},{"start":372.548,"end":392.495,"text":"因為蔡英文總統在講的價值外交我看了很多次嘛現在有個新名詞 總和外交總和外交裡面有一個部分叫價值外交我幫部長回答了啦對啦 總和外交裡面有價值外交那當然還有一些其他的東西嘛然後其他的東西當然就會涉及到錢嘛來 我們來看一下錢卡貝 獨裁者的金庫這個是我那個時候"},{"start":399.039,"end":422.339,"text":"在吹哨者協會跟國際的反貪腐組織OCCRP我們合作的企劃我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我們跟國際的反貪腐組織一起關心台灣作為最大股東的中美洲銀行錢跑到哪裡去了是真的去輔助弱勢小孩婦女"},{"start":423.42,"end":436.174,"text":"還是跑去被胡搞瞎搞變成所謂獨裁者的金庫這個標題其實不是我想的這個標題是OCCRP用英文表示 翻成中文當然 因為這個樣子"},{"start":439.497,"end":465.771,"text":"之前的總裁也下台了嘛 直接被轟下台嘛最近新的總裁來做一些改革你看我功課做得多好 新的總裁來你還跟他合照 我都準備好了我就知道你會這樣講所以我知道你跟新的總裁有碰面嘛然後他們新的辦事處搬到天母使館特區嘛你也有去嘛 剩下不到一成"},{"start":466.351,"end":479.866,"text":"蛤 我說也讓他租金改革啦你說委員講的他內部外部都要進行改革你知不知道卡貝本來在台灣這邊的辦事處在哪101啊101嘛 你知不知道那時候裝潢花多少錢我們現在就是把他改"},{"start":484.276,"end":500.311,"text":"換到地方我們那個天母那個地方租金現在就剩下十分之一而且就近跟我們卡貝的國家包括瓜地馬拉貝里斯可以合處辦公大家一起合作我同意委員之前的這些這個指導的意見"},{"start":501.132,"end":528.131,"text":"那我們就是 當然要善用我們在卡貝還有包括歐銀 亞銀的我們的這一些資金要用於我們的榮邦計畫 這個是一個第二個就是要把這個改革要大幅度的進行這樣子會比較快啦2021年在101租了一大片辦公室裝潢花上千萬裝潢花三千萬年租金七百萬"},{"start":529.67,"end":554.995,"text":"那個時候我跟他們一起在調查的時候我看到卡貝裡面的這個內臟我看了臉都綠了台灣是第一大股東啊如果不關我們台灣的事情我管這些中美洲國家他們愛怎麼亂花錢他們家的事啊我關心的是台灣是第一大股東啊台灣人有沒有被當盤子啊錢拿去中美洲銀行給他們這樣胡搞瞎搞"},{"start":555.97,"end":578.965,"text":"我看了裝潢費高達上千萬年租金七百萬我的老天啊在台灣是有什麼特殊重要的任務任務很龐雜會搞成這個樣子啊那但是我也不是看紙上的資料以後就在那邊腦補篇故事啊我那時候做了什麼事那個時候一定是實地考察實地考察跑去Cafe 101的大樓看"},{"start":580.425,"end":599.719,"text":"哇 裡面真的是氣派豪華裝潢非常的好啊但是有個特色 我跟部長報告叫做空蕩蕩很氣派的辦公室裝潢非常的好加上司機總共多少人用那個辦公室空間部長你知不知道"},{"start":602.686,"end":616.165,"text":"五個人五個人 搶運獎搞起來五個人在101大樓好氣派的辦公室裡面都沒有人是這樣在花台灣納稅人的錢"},{"start":617.569,"end":641.856,"text":"當初101開幕的時候我們也有大官去拍照啦就像你這一次到天母特區跟他拍照一樣我們那個是合宿辦公啦 比較便宜啦是啦 所以我就肯定你嘛我肯定你的改革嘛上一次鋪張浪費嘛幫我們當盤子嘛現在終於發現只要十分之一的租金啊這個就是我要跟部長交換了這個就是監督的價值這個就是監督的力量不要再說齁"},{"start":646.857,"end":670.251,"text":"哇 不給你們錢去揮霍就是不支持台灣的外交中美洲銀行對台灣很重要有國際重要的戰略位置不給他錢就是不支持台灣的外交我們當然支持台灣的外交我不支持的是什麼我不支持的是這樣子胡搞瞎搞所以接下來在預算審查的時候我們一定就事論事好好進行實質的審查好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":581,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時30分）謝謝主席，麻煩請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。我上一次質詢的議題，韓國的民族日報說緊急戒嚴的時候他們有個司令官來台灣尋求支持，然後我問你們有沒有抗議？是不是有要求他更正？你們上次跟我說有要求他更正，然後在更正以後會通知我，這個是我們上一次質詢的進度。你們後續回復我的東西，我一定會追，你們說有更正，那問題是什麼？問題是人家根本沒有理你啊，那你怎麼會跟我說有更正？從頭到尾沒有更正啊，現在網站上面的日期跟內容一模一樣，從你們回復我到現在，到目前為止沒有任何更動啊，人家根本沒有更正啊，你們怎麼會跟我說人家有更正？我看不懂啊！現在是在騙我嗎？騙我會有什麼幫助嗎？對於我們台灣的信譽造成這麼大的傷害，你們說有更正是在自我欺騙嗎？請部長。"],["林部長佳龍：因為我剛剛看到委員的質詢，當時是由政次回應。有關於更正是以總統府的說明為主，但是委員剛剛提到是說我們更正是要去駐韓代表處表達對這件事情……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有，我再跟你講一次過程。上一次我問他的時候說有更正，他說答應要露出、再繼續追蹤，我問一出更正消息可以把副本給我嗎？陳明祺說沒問題，結果回復了我以後，我一定去double check，我double check的結果就是根本沒有更正。左手邊我用紅框框起來的是你們外交部回復給我的內容，右手邊是我查證的結果，根本就沒有更正啊！"],["林部長佳龍：如果如您所說我們有去交涉更正，而沒有更正也應該要回答，如果我們去交涉且要求他更正，有更正也要來說明，所以我會在這件事情後續去追蹤。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！這是上一part的進度，上一part陳明祺就是這樣跟我講的啊！我現在的問題是根本沒更正啊，騙我說有，事實上就沒有啊，沒關係啦！我不要一直在這個問題上面打轉，部長也知道我的風格，我一定追到底的，回去以後請部長徹查瞭解這到底是怎麼回事。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["黃委員國昌：是在自欺欺人？還是在欺騙我？還是覺得用混的就可以過去？一個禮拜之內以書面回復我，可以嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：可以。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。","下一個問題，現在我們其實都支持中華民國台灣對外的外交，我們看過去從2016年以來，我們邦交國的數量是越來越少，當然這是中共的打壓，全台灣人都知道，中共打壓也不是現在開始，中共打壓台灣很久了，過去四、五十年來中共都在打壓台灣，在2016年以後可能打壓的力道比較強，所以讓我們邦交國的數字從21個掉到現在剩12個。今年我看了你們外交部的預算，有援外的預算，援外的預算該怎麼花、花在什麼目的用途上面，這個我們到審預算的時候好好講。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["黃委員國昌：但是我光從實際上面的總數來看，2016年援外的經費是90億，到了2019年大概都是九十幾億，到2020年開始變成一百多億，到2025年的時候是118億，到2026年的時候暴漲到202億，這樣子的經費，這樣子的預算，部長，你要交給國人的成績單是什麼？"],["林部長佳龍：我跟委員報告，我們當然把12個邦交國守好以外，很多理念相近的國家像中東歐包括菲律賓，我們也要加強……"],["黃委員國昌：你的意思是說要更多錢，12個邦交國才能守好嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：我們既有的12個邦交國其實現在的任務、業務也比以前多以外，我們再擴展非邦交國，事實上它的重要性不亞於邦交國，比如說我剛剛講的菲律賓，關於榮邦計畫，其實立法院也通過對ODA……希望要增加，但我們是有計畫的，不是說我去增加了那麼多預算，而是要做什麼事情，我想這個部分我跟……"],["黃委員國昌：我相信你一定有計畫，沒關係，我們審預算的時候再慢慢來看。因為我們大的picture總是要讓台灣人民知道，台灣人民也很關心，希望台灣在國際社會發光發亮嘛，我們支持我們的外交，台灣人也都用稅收讓我們的官員去做外交，總是希望看到成績嘛！"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["黃委員國昌：從2016年的九十幾億，現在到2026年暴漲到兩百多億，我們總是要告訴國人們打算要交出什麼成績單，才能夠正當化這個錢啊，那要不然我如果給兩百多億跟給九十億交出來的成績單一樣，那大家就會問中間的一百多億跑到哪裡去了，這就延續到了我之前一直跟部長所強調的，我反對金錢外交，我反對金錢外交啊，我反對金錢外交啊，我講過很多次，當初民進黨政府也說要用「價值外交」嘛，後來看價值外交恐怕沒有辦法合理說明外交部的一些具體作為，所以現在用了一個新的名詞叫「總合外交」，價值外交不談了啦！"],["林部長佳龍：有啦！"],["黃委員國昌：蔡英文總統在講的價值外交，我看了很多次嘛，現在有個新名詞「總合外交」，總合外交裡面有一個部分叫「價值外交」，我幫部長回答了啦！"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["黃委員國昌：對啦，總合外交裡面有價值外交，那當然還有一些其他的東西嘛。"],["林部長佳龍：總合外交還有其他……"],["黃委員國昌：其他的東西當然就會涉及到錢嘛，來，我們來看一下錢。CABEI，獨裁者的金庫，這是我那個時候在吹哨者協會跟國際的反貪腐組織OCCRP，我們合作的企劃，我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿，我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿，我們跟國際的反貪腐組織一起關心，台灣作為最大股東的中美洲銀行，錢跑到哪裡去了？是真的去扶助弱勢小孩、婦女？還是跑去被胡搞瞎搞，變成所謂獨裁者的金庫？這個標題其實不是我想的，這個標題是OCCRP用英文表示，翻成中文，當然因為這個樣子，CABEI之前的總裁也下臺了，直接被轟下臺嘛！"],["林部長佳龍：對，最近新來的總裁有做一些改革。"],["黃委員國昌：你看，我功課做得多好，新的總裁來，你還跟他合照，我都準備好了，我就知道你會這樣講，所以我知道你跟新的總裁有碰面嘛。"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["黃委員國昌：他們新的辦事處搬到天母使館特區……"],["林部長佳龍：租金減少，剩下不到一成。"],["黃委員國昌：蛤？"],["林部長佳龍：我說，讓它租金減少，改革啦！委員講的，它的內部和外部都要進行改革。"],["黃委員國昌：你知不知道CABEI本來在台灣這邊的辦事處在哪？"],["林部長佳龍：101啊！"],["黃委員國昌：101，你知不知道那時候裝潢花多少錢？"],["林部長佳龍：反正我們現在就是把它換到天母那個地方，租金現在就剩下十分之一，而且就近跟我們CABEI的國家包括瓜地馬拉、貝里斯可以合署辦公，大家一起合作。我同意委員之前指導的意見，我們再來就是要善用我們在CABEI，還有包括歐銀、亞銀，我們這一些資金要用於我們的榮邦計畫，這是一個；第二個就是要大幅度的進行……"],["黃委員國昌：我直接跟部長講會比較快啦。2021年在101租了一大片辦公室，裝潢花上千萬，裝潢花上千萬，年租金700萬，那個時候我跟他們一起在調查，我看到CABEI裡面的內帳，我看了臉都綠了，台灣是第一大股東，如果不關我們台灣的事情，我管這些中美洲國家他們愛怎麼亂花錢是他們家的事，我關心的是，台灣是第一大股東，台灣人有沒有被當「盤子」，錢拿去中美洲銀行給他們這樣胡搞瞎搞，我看了裝潢費高達上千萬，年租金700萬，我老天啊！在台灣是有什麼特殊重要的任務？任務很龐雜，所以搞成這個樣子啊？但我也不是看了紙上的資料以後就在那邊腦補編故事！我那時候做了什麼事？就去實地考察，我跑去CABEI位在101大樓的辦公室一看。哇！裡面真的是氣派豪華，裝潢非常的好！但是有個特色我要跟部長報告，就是空蕩蕩！很氣派的辦公室，裝潢非常好，加上司機總共有多少人在使用那個辦公室的空間，部長你知不知道？"],["林部長佳龍：你這邊有寫。"],["黃委員國昌：連司機加起來是5個人，在101大樓，好氣派的辦公室，裡面都沒有人，是這樣在花台灣納稅人的錢？當初101開幕的時候也有大官去拍照，就像你這次到天母特區跟他拍照一樣。"],["林部長佳龍：我那個是合署辦公，比較便宜啦。"],["黃委員國昌：是啦！所以我就肯定你嘛！我肯定你的改革！上一任鋪張浪費，把我們當盤子，現在終於發現只要十分之一的租金，這就是我要跟部長交換的意見！這個就是監督的價值、監督的力量！不要再說不給你們錢去揮霍，就是不支持台灣的外交！中美洲銀行對台灣很重要，有國際重要的戰略位置，不給它錢，就是不支持台灣的外交？我們當然支持台灣的外交！我不支持的是什麼？我不支持的是這樣子胡搞瞎搞！所以接下來在預算審查的時候，我們一定就事論事，好好進行實質的審查，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔，楊瓊瓔委員不在。","請羅明才、羅明才，羅明才委員不在。","請高金素梅、高金素梅，高金素梅委員不在。","請洪孟楷、洪孟楷，洪孟楷委員不在。","請蘇清泉、蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員不在。","請林倩綺、林倩綺，林倩綺委員不在。","請林憶君委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-7","speakers":["馬文君","陳永康","陳俊宇","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","葉元之","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","賴惠員","林德福","黃國昌","林憶君","王定宇","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","林倩綺"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「近期台美關係及關稅談判進展」，併請行政院經貿談判辦公室、經\n濟部、農業部列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148601_00006"}}}