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00:01:25,712\n他有部分違規你們才拆除啊你第一期怎麼做法他現在還沒有申請所以說你們他申請的話你們會再看然後你們如果說他完全合格你們會發我還是要提醒喔因為他是完全根據舊法對不對根據舊法你根據新法位於三坡地面積達到規模像是15公頃以上或者是裝置流量加2萬的千瓦以上需要我們河山是舊案但是你看看案場大概是51公頃喔\n\n4\n00:01:28,713 --> 00:01:57,632\n裝置流量是7萬的這個千瓦你如果沒有經過你認為如果你要給它核發的話你是不是要再一次環評因為每一個低端地球都不一樣當年是因為我們2019年為了要設置這麼大的一個所謂的綠電你說實在的你沒有經過環評有那時空背景我們都不同意那現在已經發生這麼多的事情距離我們的這個村莊只有100公尺大家都非常關切所以嗨嗨你要發這個執照之前你還要不要再經過一次環評\n\n5\n00:01:59,654 --> 00:02:20,448\n要不要包委員他如果重新提出申請我們會就法令重新來檢視剛才委員指教的新舊法我們也會在法律上重新看所以你現在不敢承諾到底會不會再經過環評我們要做法律上的分析因為民眾申請他有他一定了解所以要不要再經過環評你們目前是未確定\n\n6\n00:02:20,968 --> 00:02:37,895\n我們會再來就法律上整個因為他這個如果要發執照也不只環評一件事我們會把整個案件所以說他不會像是玩所以目前聽起來不會像是像過去就法你只要是一切就你們那時候的法規可以你就發給執照這次還會做全面的一個來做討論是這樣沒有錯吧\n\n7\n00:02:43,379 --> 00:02:53,711\n因為目前為止每個人都非常關切這個電板的問題你們在2030年的時候能源署有告訴我們說你們可能光電的設置要到31.2GW沒有錯嗎目前為止這個目標還是嗎\n\n8\n00:02:55,892 --> 00:03:19,989\n是的這個是我們努力的目標那我們希望能夠做到31.2GbW那2035部長你知道嗎2035可能要到31.2GbW那就大概就是我們所謂的1692個大安森林公園這麼多我們先來看看有沒有辦法土地怎麼找這都是非常重要的一個問題我們先來看一下到2025距離目前只有多久時間到2030年你要31.2GbW現在是2025\n\n9\n00:03:22,691 --> 00:03:44,426\n到8月的時候呢你的容量目前為止僅15.02距離我們2030的目標還有16GW所以有這樣子一個落差這是一個你們很大的落差我們先不要看別的光是今年1到8月我們僅增加0.74跟去年比起來去年大概是兩個GW那怎麼辦你們的目標你們的產能一個個在往後你們目標是這麼多到目前5年之後\n\n10\n00:03:52,811 --> 00:04:01,798\n一般業者認為你到20就差不多了你把它定在30有可能嗎署長你要不要做滾動式的修正你要不要做修正\n\n11\n00:04:02,765 --> 00:04:31,118\n是這是我們的目標那我們會努力來達成我覺得像目前講署長跟部長五年後可能你們都不在其位可是呢你們如果用我們這些數據來告訴我們話都是告訴我們說你們是目標目標永遠都在期望未來的一個目標我覺得這對我個人來說部長你同意吧這對我們未來說這個其實不是太公平的你應該是滾動式的不斷告訴我們現在已經告訴你今年跟去年比就是比較少那未來該怎麼辦是不是\n\n12\n00:04:31,798 --> 00:04:52,483\n包委員我們還是會把這個目標當作目標來努力啦那但是包委員就是說事實上還有另外一個方式就是太秀換新的部分因為過去的轉換效率大概只有十出頭十幾而已現在可能都可以做到三十所以它這個會是原來的超過一倍以上還有就是你剛剛說到的屋頂\n\n13\n00:04:53,283 --> 00:05:01,390\n屋頂你的誘因我覺得你可以再增強因為屋頂目前看起來比陸域跟水域來說應該是比較是OK大家接受的比較高嘛你可以從這個角度來嘛對不對還有最後一個部分啦因為光電板目前嘛你那時候在公開承諾說萬一說你這個水庫光電板如果有任何疑義的話你會暫緩\n\n14\n00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:38,255\n那個時候你是在對於台南地區這個樣的承諾是對於全國嗎全國萬一說地方政府有異議的話目前來說都是暫緩嗎還是只針對台南這個SOP本來是適用於全台灣全國嘛不是只有在台南嘛對不對而且我覺得你要訂立標準你不要把很多的問題全部留給地方政府那個整個標準來說中央就應該複習這個角色嘛好不好\n\n15\n00:05:38,975 --> 00:05:49,845\n所以說呢光電板的我的問題就是你的滾動性的修正還有你要給明確的目標然後呢你告訴我說2035要給我1692個大安森林公園土地哪裡來這是要跨部會來否則的話光是一個目標然後告訴我目標我們人都不在了你還在一個目標你讓下面一任怎麼辦永續環境的經營是每一個人現場都需要有角色跟責任的好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7096\t34108\t謝謝主席我們是不是請部長跟能源署長我們請兩位各位好部長跟署長好我想我們回到我們大樹河山裡的光電廠這當初這個空拍圖這震驚全國目前來說的話因為我們第二案場已經是完全是撤掉它的這個施工許可第一呢\n35816\t56016\t包委員第一案場因為它是合法設置但它中間有違規那所以我們違規的部分我們要叫它拆除違規的部分而且它已經完工了所以你們會不會給它發給它電業局會不會發會 它第一期是合法設置的第二期我們不會發我知道 第一期你們什麼時候發我們\n60765\t85712\t他有部分違規你們才拆除啊你第一期怎麼做法他現在還沒有申請所以說你們他申請的話你們會再看然後你們如果說他完全合格你們會發我還是要提醒喔因為他是完全根據舊法對不對根據舊法你根據新法位於三坡地面積達到規模像是15公頃以上或者是裝置流量加2萬的千瓦以上需要我們河山是舊案但是你看看案場大概是51公頃喔\n88713\t117632\t裝置流量是7萬的這個千瓦你如果沒有經過你認為如果你要給它核發的話你是不是要再一次環評因為每一個低端地球都不一樣當年是因為我們2019年為了要設置這麼大的一個所謂的綠電你說實在的你沒有經過環評有那時空背景我們都不同意那現在已經發生這麼多的事情距離我們的這個村莊只有100公尺大家都非常關切所以嗨嗨你要發這個執照之前你還要不要再經過一次環評\n119654\t140448\t要不要包委員 他如果重新提出申請我們會就法令重新來檢視剛才委員指教的新舊法我們也會在法律上重新看所以你現在不敢承諾到底會不會再經過環評我們要做法律上的分析因為民眾申請他有 他一定了解 所以要不要再經過環評你們目前是未確定\n140968\t157895\t我們會再來就法律上整個因為他這個如果要發執照也不只環評一件事我們會把整個案件所以說他不會像是玩所以目前聽起來不會像是像過去就法你只要是一切就你們那時候的法規可以你就發給執照這次還會做全面的一個來做討論是這樣沒有錯吧\n163379\t173711\t因為目前為止每個人都非常關切這個電板的問題你們在2030年的時候能源署有告訴我們說你們可能光電的設置要到31.2GW沒有錯嗎 目前為止這個目標還是嗎\n175892\t199989\t是的 這個是我們努力的目標那我們希望能夠做到31.2GbW那2035部長你知道嗎2035可能要到31.2GbW那就大概就是我們所謂的1692個大安森林公園這麼多我們先來看看有沒有辦法土地怎麼找這都是非常重要的一個問題我們先來看一下到2025距離目前只有多久時間到2030年你要31.2GbW現在是2025\n202691\t224426\t到8月的時候呢你的容量目前為止僅15.02距離我們2030的目標還有16GW所以有這樣子一個落差這是一個你們很大的落差我們先不要看別的光是今年1到8月我們僅增加0.74跟去年比起來去年大概是兩個GW那怎麼辦你們的目標你們的產能一個個在往後你們目標是這麼多到目前5年之後\n232811\t241798\t一般業者認為你到20就差不多了你把它定在30有可能嗎署長你要不要做滾動式的修正你要不要做修正\n242765\t271118\t是這是我們的目標那我們會努力來達成我覺得像目前講署長跟部長五年後可能你們都不在其位可是呢你們如果用我們這些數據來告訴我們話都是告訴我們說你們是目標目標永遠都在期望未來的一個目標我覺得這對我個人來說部長你同意吧這對我們未來說這個其實不是太公平的你應該是滾動式的不斷告訴我們現在已經告訴你今年跟去年比就是比較少那未來該怎麼辦是不是\n271798\t292483\t包委員我們還是會把這個目標當作目標來努力啦那但是包委員就是說事實上還有另外一個方式就是太秀換新的部分因為過去的轉換效率大概只有十出頭十幾而已現在可能都可以做到三十所以它這個會是原來的超過一倍以上還有就是你剛剛說到的屋頂\n293283\t301390\t屋頂你的誘因我覺得你可以再增強因為屋頂目前看起來比陸域跟水域來說應該是比較是OK大家接受的比較高嘛你可以從這個角度來嘛對不對還有最後一個部分啦因為光電板目前嘛你那時候在公開承諾說萬一說你這個水庫光電板如果有任何疑義的話你會暫緩\n314480\t338255\t那個時候你是在對於台南地區這個樣的承諾是對於全國嗎全國萬一說地方政府有異議的話目前來說都是暫緩嗎還是只針對台南這個SOP本來是適用於全台灣全國嘛 不是只有在台南嘛對不對 而且我覺得你要訂立標準你不要把很多的問題全部留給地方政府那個整個標準來說 中央就應該複習這個角色嘛好不好\n338975\t349845\t所以說呢光電板的我的問題就是你的滾動性的修正還有你要給明確的目標然後呢你告訴我說2035要給我1692個大安森林公園土地哪裡來這是要跨部會來否則的話光是一個目標然後告訴我目標我們人都不在了你還在一個目標你讓下面一任怎麼辦永續環境的經營是每一個人現場都需要有角色跟責任的好不好好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們是不是請部長跟能源署長我們請兩位各位好部長跟署長好我想我們回到我們大樹河山裡的光電廠這當初這個空拍圖這震驚全國目前來說的話因為我們第二案場已經是完全是撤掉它的這個施工許可第一呢\n包委員第一案場因為它是合法設置但它中間有違規那所以我們違規的部分我們要叫它拆除違規的部分而且它已經完工了所以你們會不會給它發給它電業局會不會發會 它第一期是合法設置的第二期我們不會發我知道 第一期你們什麼時候發我們\n他有部分違規你們才拆除啊你第一期怎麼做法他現在還沒有申請所以說你們他申請的話你們會再看然後你們如果說他完全合格你們會發我還是要提醒喔因為他是完全根據舊法對不對根據舊法你根據新法位於三坡地面積達到規模像是15公頃以上或者是裝置流量加2萬的千瓦以上需要我們河山是舊案但是你看看案場大概是51公頃喔\n裝置流量是7萬的這個千瓦你如果沒有經過你認為如果你要給它核發的話你是不是要再一次環評因為每一個低端地球都不一樣當年是因為我們2019年為了要設置這麼大的一個所謂的綠電你說實在的你沒有經過環評有那時空背景我們都不同意那現在已經發生這麼多的事情距離我們的這個村莊只有100公尺大家都非常關切所以嗨嗨你要發這個執照之前你還要不要再經過一次環評\n要不要包委員 他如果重新提出申請我們會就法令重新來檢視剛才委員指教的新舊法我們也會在法律上重新看所以你現在不敢承諾到底會不會再經過環評我們要做法律上的分析因為民眾申請他有 他一定了解 所以要不要再經過環評你們目前是未確定\n我們會再來就法律上整個因為他這個如果要發執照也不只環評一件事我們會把整個案件所以說他不會像是玩所以目前聽起來不會像是像過去就法你只要是一切就你們那時候的法規可以你就發給執照這次還會做全面的一個來做討論是這樣沒有錯吧\n因為目前為止每個人都非常關切這個電板的問題你們在2030年的時候能源署有告訴我們說你們可能光電的設置要到31.2GW沒有錯嗎 目前為止這個目標還是嗎\n是的 這個是我們努力的目標那我們希望能夠做到31.2GbW那2035部長你知道嗎2035可能要到31.2GbW那就大概就是我們所謂的1692個大安森林公園這麼多我們先來看看有沒有辦法土地怎麼找這都是非常重要的一個問題我們先來看一下到2025距離目前只有多久時間到2030年你要31.2GbW現在是2025\n到8月的時候呢你的容量目前為止僅15.02距離我們2030的目標還有16GW所以有這樣子一個落差這是一個你們很大的落差我們先不要看別的光是今年1到8月我們僅增加0.74跟去年比起來去年大概是兩個GW那怎麼辦你們的目標你們的產能一個個在往後你們目標是這麼多到目前5年之後\n一般業者認為你到20就差不多了你把它定在30有可能嗎署長你要不要做滾動式的修正你要不要做修正\n是這是我們的目標那我們會努力來達成我覺得像目前講署長跟部長五年後可能你們都不在其位可是呢你們如果用我們這些數據來告訴我們話都是告訴我們說你們是目標目標永遠都在期望未來的一個目標我覺得這對我個人來說部長你同意吧這對我們未來說這個其實不是太公平的你應該是滾動式的不斷告訴我們現在已經告訴你今年跟去年比就是比較少那未來該怎麼辦是不是\n包委員我們還是會把這個目標當作目標來努力啦那但是包委員就是說事實上還有另外一個方式就是太秀換新的部分因為過去的轉換效率大概只有十出頭十幾而已現在可能都可以做到三十所以它這個會是原來的超過一倍以上還有就是你剛剛說到的屋頂\n屋頂你的誘因我覺得你可以再增強因為屋頂目前看起來比陸域跟水域來說應該是比較是OK大家接受的比較高嘛你可以從這個角度來嘛對不對還有最後一個部分啦因為光電板目前嘛你那時候在公開承諾說萬一說你這個水庫光電板如果有任何疑義的話你會暫緩\n那個時候你是在對於台南地區這個樣的承諾是對於全國嗎全國萬一說地方政府有異議的話目前來說都是暫緩嗎還是只針對台南這個SOP本來是適用於全台灣全國嘛 不是只有在台南嘛對不對 而且我覺得你要訂立標準你不要把很多的問題全部留給地方政府那個整個標準來說 中央就應該複習這個角色嘛好不好\n所以說呢光電板的我的問題就是你的滾動性的修正還有你要給明確的目標然後呢你告訴我說2035要給我1692個大安森林公園土地哪裡來這是要跨部會來否則的話光是一個目標然後告訴我目標我們人都不在了你還在一個目標你讓下面一任怎麼辦永續環境的經營是每一個人現場都需要有角色跟責任的好不好好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.096 --> 00:34.108\n謝謝主席我們是不是請部長跟能源署長我們請兩位各位好部長跟署長好我想我們回到我們大樹河山裡的光電廠這當初這個空拍圖這震驚全國目前來說的話因為我們第二案場已經是完全是撤掉它的這個施工許可第一呢\n\n00:35.816 --> 00:56.016\n包委員第一案場因為它是合法設置但它中間有違規那所以我們違規的部分我們要叫它拆除違規的部分而且它已經完工了所以你們會不會給它發給它電業局會不會發會它第一期是合法設置的第二期我們不會發我知道第一期你們什麼時候發我們\n\n01:00.765 --> 01:25.712\n他有部分違規你們才拆除啊你第一期怎麼做法他現在還沒有申請所以說你們他申請的話你們會再看然後你們如果說他完全合格你們會發我還是要提醒喔因為他是完全根據舊法對不對根據舊法你根據新法位於三坡地面積達到規模像是15公頃以上或者是裝置流量加2萬的千瓦以上需要我們河山是舊案但是你看看案場大概是51公頃喔\n\n01:28.713 --> 01:57.632\n裝置流量是7萬的這個千瓦你如果沒有經過你認為如果你要給它核發的話你是不是要再一次環評因為每一個低端地球都不一樣當年是因為我們2019年為了要設置這麼大的一個所謂的綠電你說實在的你沒有經過環評有那時空背景我們都不同意那現在已經發生這麼多的事情距離我們的這個村莊只有100公尺大家都非常關切所以嗨嗨你要發這個執照之前你還要不要再經過一次環評\n\n01:59.654 --> 02:20.448\n要不要包委員他如果重新提出申請我們會就法令重新來檢視剛才委員指教的新舊法我們也會在法律上重新看所以你現在不敢承諾到底會不會再經過環評我們要做法律上的分析因為民眾申請他有他一定了解所以要不要再經過環評你們目前是未確定\n\n02:20.968 --> 02:37.895\n我們會再來就法律上整個因為他這個如果要發執照也不只環評一件事我們會把整個案件所以說他不會像是玩所以目前聽起來不會像是像過去就法你只要是一切就你們那時候的法規可以你就發給執照這次還會做全面的一個來做討論是這樣沒有錯吧\n\n02:43.379 --> 02:53.711\n因為目前為止每個人都非常關切這個電板的問題你們在2030年的時候能源署有告訴我們說你們可能光電的設置要到31.2GW沒有錯嗎目前為止這個目標還是嗎\n\n02:55.892 --> 03:19.989\n是的這個是我們努力的目標那我們希望能夠做到31.2GbW那2035部長你知道嗎2035可能要到31.2GbW那就大概就是我們所謂的1692個大安森林公園這麼多我們先來看看有沒有辦法土地怎麼找這都是非常重要的一個問題我們先來看一下到2025距離目前只有多久時間到2030年你要31.2GbW現在是2025\n\n03:22.691 --> 03:44.426\n到8月的時候呢你的容量目前為止僅15.02距離我們2030的目標還有16GW所以有這樣子一個落差這是一個你們很大的落差我們先不要看別的光是今年1到8月我們僅增加0.74跟去年比起來去年大概是兩個GW那怎麼辦你們的目標你們的產能一個個在往後你們目標是這麼多到目前5年之後\n\n03:52.811 --> 04:01.798\n一般業者認為你到20就差不多了你把它定在30有可能嗎署長你要不要做滾動式的修正你要不要做修正\n\n04:02.765 --> 04:31.118\n是這是我們的目標那我們會努力來達成我覺得像目前講署長跟部長五年後可能你們都不在其位可是呢你們如果用我們這些數據來告訴我們話都是告訴我們說你們是目標目標永遠都在期望未來的一個目標我覺得這對我個人來說部長你同意吧這對我們未來說這個其實不是太公平的你應該是滾動式的不斷告訴我們現在已經告訴你今年跟去年比就是比較少那未來該怎麼辦是不是\n\n04:31.798 --> 04:52.483\n包委員我們還是會把這個目標當作目標來努力啦那但是包委員就是說事實上還有另外一個方式就是太秀換新的部分因為過去的轉換效率大概只有十出頭十幾而已現在可能都可以做到三十所以它這個會是原來的超過一倍以上還有就是你剛剛說到的屋頂\n\n04:53.283 --> 05:01.390\n屋頂你的誘因我覺得你可以再增強因為屋頂目前看起來比陸域跟水域來說應該是比較是OK大家接受的比較高嘛你可以從這個角度來嘛對不對還有最後一個部分啦因為光電板目前嘛你那時候在公開承諾說萬一說你這個水庫光電板如果有任何疑義的話你會暫緩\n\n05:14.480 --> 05:38.255\n那個時候你是在對於台南地區這個樣的承諾是對於全國嗎全國萬一說地方政府有異議的話目前來說都是暫緩嗎還是只針對台南這個SOP本來是適用於全台灣全國嘛不是只有在台南嘛對不對而且我覺得你要訂立標準你不要把很多的問題全部留給地方政府那個整個標準來說中央就應該複習這個角色嘛好不好\n\n05:38.975 --> 05:49.845\n所以說呢光電板的我的問題就是你的滾動性的修正還有你要給明確的目標然後呢你告訴我說2035要給我1692個大安森林公園土地哪裡來這是要跨部會來否則的話光是一個目標然後告訴我目標我們人都不在了你還在一個目標你讓下面一任怎麼辦永續環境的經營是每一個人現場都需要有角色跟責任的好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.096,"end":34.108,"text":"謝謝主席我們是不是請部長跟能源署長我們請兩位各位好部長跟署長好我想我們回到我們大樹河山裡的光電廠這當初這個空拍圖這震驚全國目前來說的話因為我們第二案場已經是完全是撤掉它的這個施工許可第一呢"},{"start":35.816,"end":56.016,"text":"包委員第一案場因為它是合法設置但它中間有違規那所以我們違規的部分我們要叫它拆除違規的部分而且它已經完工了所以你們會不會給它發給它電業局會不會發會 它第一期是合法設置的第二期我們不會發我知道 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這個是我們努力的目標那我們希望能夠做到31.2GbW那2035部長你知道嗎2035可能要到31.2GbW那就大概就是我們所謂的1692個大安森林公園這麼多我們先來看看有沒有辦法土地怎麼找這都是非常重要的一個問題我們先來看一下到2025距離目前只有多久時間到2030年你要31.2GbW現在是2025"},{"start":202.691,"end":224.426,"text":"到8月的時候呢你的容量目前為止僅15.02距離我們2030的目標還有16GW所以有這樣子一個落差這是一個你們很大的落差我們先不要看別的光是今年1到8月我們僅增加0.74跟去年比起來去年大概是兩個GW那怎麼辦你們的目標你們的產能一個個在往後你們目標是這麼多到目前5年之後"},{"start":232.811,"end":241.798,"text":"一般業者認為你到20就差不多了你把它定在30有可能嗎署長你要不要做滾動式的修正你要不要做修正"},{"start":242.765,"end":271.118,"text":"是這是我們的目標那我們會努力來達成我覺得像目前講署長跟部長五年後可能你們都不在其位可是呢你們如果用我們這些數據來告訴我們話都是告訴我們說你們是目標目標永遠都在期望未來的一個目標我覺得這對我個人來說部長你同意吧這對我們未來說這個其實不是太公平的你應該是滾動式的不斷告訴我們現在已經告訴你今年跟去年比就是比較少那未來該怎麼辦是不是"},{"start":271.798,"end":292.483,"text":"包委員我們還是會把這個目標當作目標來努力啦那但是包委員就是說事實上還有另外一個方式就是太秀換新的部分因為過去的轉換效率大概只有十出頭十幾而已現在可能都可以做到三十所以它這個會是原來的超過一倍以上還有就是你剛剛說到的屋頂"},{"start":293.283,"end":301.39,"text":"屋頂你的誘因我覺得你可以再增強因為屋頂目前看起來比陸域跟水域來說應該是比較是OK大家接受的比較高嘛你可以從這個角度來嘛對不對還有最後一個部分啦因為光電板目前嘛你那時候在公開承諾說萬一說你這個水庫光電板如果有任何疑義的話你會暫緩"},{"start":314.48,"end":338.255,"text":"那個時候你是在對於台南地區這個樣的承諾是對於全國嗎全國萬一說地方政府有異議的話目前來說都是暫緩嗎還是只針對台南這個SOP本來是適用於全台灣全國嘛 不是只有在台南嘛對不對 而且我覺得你要訂立標準你不要把很多的問題全部留給地方政府那個整個標準來說 中央就應該複習這個角色嘛好不好"},{"start":338.975,"end":349.845,"text":"所以說呢光電板的我的問題就是你的滾動性的修正還有你要給明確的目標然後呢你告訴我說2035要給我1692個大安森林公園土地哪裡來這是要跨部會來否則的話光是一個目標然後告訴我目標我們人都不在了你還在一個目標你讓下面一任怎麼辦永續環境的經營是每一個人現場都需要有角色跟責任的好不好好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1067,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（11時41分）謝謝主席。我們是不是請部長跟能源署長？"],["主席：我們請兩位。"],["龔部長明鑫：柯委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：部長跟署長好。我想我們回到大樹和山光電場，當初的空拍圖震驚全國。目前來說的話，第二案場已經完全撤掉它的施工許可了，那第一呢？"],["李署長君禮：報告委員，第一案場是合法設置，但它中間有違規，所以我們要叫它拆除違規的部分，而且罰鍰150萬元。"],["柯委員志恩：是，它已經完工了。所以你們會不會發給它電業執照？會不會發？"],["李署長君禮：會，它第一期是合法設置的……"],["柯委員志恩：你會發？"],["李署長君禮：是的，第二期我們不會發……"],["柯委員志恩：你什麼時候發？"],["李署長君禮：第一期合法設置。"],["柯委員志恩：我知道。第一期你們什麼時候發？它有部分違規，你們拆除啊！你們第一期什麼時候發？"],["李署長君禮：它現在還沒有申請。它來申請，我們會……"],["柯委員志恩：所以它申請的話，你們會再看，然後……如果它完全合格，你們會發？"],["李署長君禮：對。"],["柯委員志恩：我還是要提醒哦！因為它完全是根據舊法，對不對？根據新法，位於山坡地面積達到規模像是15公頃以上，或者是裝置流量2萬瓩以上就需要。我們和山是舊案，但是你看看它的案場大概是51公頃，裝置流量是7萬瓩如果你給它核發的話，需不需要再一次環評？因為每一個情況都不一樣。當年2019年是為了要設置這麼大的綠電，說實在的，沒有經過環評，有那樣的時空背景，我們都不同意。但現在已經發生了這麼多的事情，距離村莊只有100公尺，大家都非常關切。所以你要發執照之前，還要不要再經過一次環評？"],["李署長君禮：報告委員，它如果重新提出申請，我們會就法令重新檢視。剛才委員指教的新舊法，我們也會在法律上重新看它到底是怎樣。"],["柯委員志恩：所以還不見得哦！你現在不敢承諾到底會不會再經過環評？"],["李署長君禮：我們要做法律上的分析，因為民眾申請，他有他一定的信賴保護……"],["柯委員志恩：了解！所以要不要再經過環評，你們目前是未確定？"],["李署長君禮：我們會再就法令上……整個啦！因為它這個如果要發執照，也不只環評一件事，我們會把整個案子再重新檢視。"],["柯委員志恩：好，所以目前聽起來不會是像過去舊法，只要是你們那時候的法規可以，你就發給執照，這次還會做全面的討論，是這樣沒有錯吧？"],["李署長君禮：是，每一個案子其實我們都會這樣做啦！"],["柯委員志恩：好！目前為止，每個人都非常關切光電板的問題。在2030年的時候，能源署有告訴我們光電的設置可能要到31.2GW，沒有錯嗎？目前為止，這目標還是嗎？"],["李署長君禮：是的，這個是我們努力的目標，我們希望能夠做到31.2GW。"],["柯委員志恩：好！部長，你知道嗎？2035年可能要到35.02GW，大概就是所謂的1,692個大安森林公園這麼多，我們現在看看有沒有辦法，包括土地怎麼找，這都是非常重要的問題。","我們先來看一下，到2025，距離目前只有多久時間？到2030年，你要31.2GW，現在是2025哦！到8月的時候，你的容量目前為止僅15.02，距離我們2030的目標還有16GW的落差哦！這是你們很大的落差。我們先不要看別的，光是今年1到8月我們僅增加0.74，跟去年比起來，去年大概是兩個GW，那怎麼辦？你們的產能一個個在往後！你們的目標設這麼多，到5年之後，一般業者認為到20就差不多了，你把它訂在30！有可能嗎？署長，你要不要做滾動式的修正？你要不要做修正？"],["李署長君禮：是，這是我們的目標，我們會努力來達成……"],["柯委員志恩：我覺得就目前來講，署長、部長，5年後可能你們都不在其位，可是你們如果用這些數據來告訴我們的話，都是在告訴我們是你們的目標！目標！永遠都在期望未來的一個目標！部長，你同意吧？這對我們未來來說，這其實不是太公平的，你應該是滾動式地不斷告訴我們。現在已經告訴你，今年跟去年比起來就是比較少，那未來該怎麼辦？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我們還是會把這個目標當作目標來努力啦！事實上還有另外一個方式，就是汰舊換新的部分，因為過去的轉換效率大概只有十幾而已，現在可能都可以做到30，所以它會是超過原來的一倍以上，同樣的面積。"],["柯委員志恩：還有你剛剛說到的屋頂，我覺得你的誘因可以再增強，因為目前看起來，比起陸域跟水域來說，屋頂應該是比較OK，大家接受度比較高嘛！你可以從這個角度來嘛！"],["龔部長明鑫：是，我們會主動地加碼這個……"],["柯委員志恩：還有最後一個部分，光電板的部分，你那時候公開承諾，萬一水庫光電板有任何疑義的話會暫緩。那時候你是在對臺南地區，而這個承諾有對全國嗎？全國萬一地方政府有疑義的話，目前來說都是暫緩嗎？還是只針對臺南？"],["龔部長明鑫：這個SOP本來是適用於全臺灣。"],["柯委員志恩：全國嘛！不是只有在臺南嘛！對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["柯委員志恩：而且我覺得你要訂立標準，你不要把很多的問題全部留給地方政府，針對整個標準來說，中央就應該要負起這個角色嘛！好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：是，沒有錯。"],["柯委員志恩：所以光電板的部分，我的問題就是滾動性地修正，還有你要給明確的目標，然後你告訴我2035年要給我1,692個大安森林公園，土地哪裡來？這是要跨部會，否則光是一個目標，只告訴我目標，我們人都不在了，你還在一個目標，你讓下面一任怎麼辦？永續環境經營是現場每一個人都需要有角色跟責任的，好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["柯委員志恩：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來我們請高金素梅委員，請詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-6","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","謝衣鳯","陳超明","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","賴士葆","王育敏","盧縣一","蔡易餘","葉元之","廖先翔","柯志恩","高金素梅","賴惠員","吳宗憲","李坤城","徐富癸","羅廷瑋","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","洪孟楷","謝龍介","林楚茵","張嘉郡","邱志偉","牛煦庭","劉建國"],"page_start":253,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148701_00013"}}}