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716.756, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"愛\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 716.756, \"end\": 716.776, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 719.541, \"end\": 738.353, \"text\": \"愛情啊很重要麵包也很重要因為你要吃得飽我們才能夠長期立志所以台美的關係要有愛情也要有麵包愛情就是理念相近這一個就是建立在民主法制的基礎另外一個就是我們利益一致那利益是要我們主動去找出跟美國一致的利益嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"愛\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 719.541, \"end\": 719.701, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 719.701, \"end\": 720.302, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 720.302, \"end\": 720.502, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 720.502, \"end\": 720.662, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 720.662, \"end\": 721.082, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"麵\"}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 721.082, \"end\": 721.262, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 721.262, \"end\": 721.362, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 721.362, \"end\": 721.502, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 721.502, \"end\": 721.702, \"score\": 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\"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 752.896, \"end\": 752.956, \"score\": 0.372}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 752.956, \"end\": 753.096, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 753.096, \"end\": 753.236, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 753.236, \"end\": 753.256, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 753.256, \"end\": 753.276, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 753.276, \"end\": 753.376, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 753.376, \"end\": 753.396, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 753.396, \"end\": 753.416, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 753.416, \"end\": 753.776, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 753.776, \"end\": 753.936, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 753.936, \"end\": 754.136, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 754.136, \"end\": 754.156, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"值\", 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\"end\": 813.235, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 813.235, \"end\": 813.335, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 813.335, \"end\": 813.355, \"score\": 0.527}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,611 --> 00:00:07,818\n謝謝主席有請經貿談判辦公室執命和經濟部次長請經貿辦還有經濟部次長就備巡台謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:19,452 --> 00:00:45,881\n這個月月初十月三號媒體有報導台美關稅談判進入了深水區在五輪的磋商中台灣的速度的向美國提出避免雙重課稅上面協定行政院的副院長曾立軍在月初也在記者會上面說明第五輪的磋商台美共購的產業聚落有譜了但因為台灣的模式與日韓還有歐盟還有直接投資美國不同\n\n3\n00:00:47,181 --> 00:01:02,611\n問題是在這第五輪的磋商雖然已經落幕了但台美雙方的供應鏈有關的台灣聚落的模式的合作還有最重要的232條款調查這可是涉及我們台灣最重要的護國神山半導體的存活的兩大議題現在有共識了嗎\n\n4\n00:01:06,349 --> 00:01:18,893\n跟委員報告現在台美雙方在持續密切的聯繫當中在談有關包括半導體產業在內的供應鏈合作方案所以到現在還沒有談好\n\n5\n00:01:20,894 --> 00:01:41,690\n那在台灣模式這個部分的話我方是在這個跟由台灣佈局全球的總體戰略底下提出台灣的模式那包括第一個是由企業自主規劃到美國進行產業投資第二個是由政府來整合民間投資佈局增加對業者的金融支持第三個是透過台美政府G2G的合作來為我國企業打造有利的產業環境\n\n6\n00:01:43,484 --> 00:01:58,483\n所以現在就是談判辦公室就是說副院長提到的台灣聚落模式這個方案是有確定但是現在是最新的談判的進度是美國到底有沒有正面回覆台灣提出的方案呢\n\n7\n00:02:00,155 --> 00:02:26,998\n美方對我們的提案是感到興趣的那雙方也都是在這個美方對我方提出的台灣模式是有高度的興趣的那台美還是在就這個供應鏈的合作方案在跟美國商務部持續的磋商當中那我再請問一下就台灣聚落的模式真的可以為台灣創造出有別於日韓超過數千億美元的投資的心路嗎那要如何創造呢\n\n8\n00:02:29,544 --> 00:02:47,595\n是,向委員報告,就是說有關於這個我們的台灣模式它的原由一開始是因為我們台灣的這個科學園區的經營模式它是全球獨有的再加上我們台灣的許多的產業園區這個工業區等等那其他國家難以複製這樣園區的規劃、籌設還有經營模式\n\n9\n00:02:51,317 --> 00:03:18,953\n我國願意跟美國用透過政府跟政府的合作來創造有利產業聚落來形成的環境這樣也可以降低我國企業去單打獨鬥的這個成本跟風險所以我們是導入過去產業聚落以及科學園區的經驗來在這個談判裡面那耕留台灣還是我們談判的最高指導原則那我們的高科技產業的垂直供應鏈必須依照耕留台灣的原則來做全球佈局不是將產業外移\n\n10\n00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:39,168\n所以其實我為什麼今天要提出這樣的疑問和擔憂是因為目前關於台灣聚落這整個模式有一些學者上面非常的優先的指出台積電在台灣能夠高效的運作是靠的是緊密的聚落上中下游的供應鏈從設備材料商和客戶的聚落的集中才能在機器故障的時候馬上隨時的支援但問題是美國的土地範圍非常的大\n\n11\n00:03:49,632 --> 00:03:53,214\n產業環境分散根本沒有辦法在24小時內馬上隨時的配合經營的風險在台灣其實是高出許多的另外美國的勞動制度對工時其實他們要求的非常非常的嚴格台灣常見的責任制加班在美國可能會變成是強迫勞動\n\n12\n00:04:07,702 --> 00:04:11,183\n所以這樣會不會增加台商未來到美國投資帶來的訴訟的成本還有就是另外一個挑戰是投資的規模上面的落差美方是期望我們台灣在美建立有50%的產能估計大約要5000億美元的投資但台積電目前承諾投資只有1650億的美元雙方的差距非常的大即便建立了產業的聚落如何才能達到美方滿意的\n\n13\n00:04:36,911 --> 00:04:38,654\n規模呢不要到時候又犧牲了半導體然後讓台灣的產業被迫外移讓專業的人才外流那請問經濟部你怎麼樣看待這個擔憂和意見呢\n\n14\n00:04:48,045 --> 00:05:14,543\n跟文報告那個台灣的這個科學園區或是我們產業園區發展的經驗他是一個群聚的一個大家供應鏈合作的一個結果那我想現在台積電已經宣布1651的投資案未來他會有這個六個這個晶圓廠在會在這個美國所以也就是說需要這個有台積電的相關的供應鏈必須要在旁邊來服務這個台積電的這個相關的一些運作\n\n15\n00:05:17,925 --> 00:05:46,647\n他這個也是我們台灣科學園區成功的這個經驗所以未來可能會面臨到剛剛委員提到這些問題包括勞動力的這些問題或是說一些相關的這個美國相關的一些這個稅的這些問題的部分我想這個就是我們在跟美方在談判的過程裡面我們就是希望說政府對政府提供一些行政協力協助的這個部分那我想美方他們也有把這個部分列入考量\n\n16\n00:05:47,938 --> 00:05:59,474\n希望千萬不要發生台灣產業和人才被迫到美國發展然後一定會衝擊到台灣就業的市場和經濟發展所以我還是希望我們還是要以台灣的利益為優先考量好不好那請執密先回座繼續我要請教經濟部的次長\n\n17\n00:06:07,130 --> 00:06:10,572\n次長因為本席比較關心的是台美關稅中有關提高藥品關稅對我國的影響所以我想請教一下次長美國10月1號開始針對品牌和專利的藥品徵收100%的關稅藥品公司在美國設廠包括已經動工了還有正在施工的這些製藥廠才可以免除關稅那次長你知不知道美國其實是我國西藥製劑的最大的出口國\n\n18\n00:06:31,767 --> 00:06:35,191\n因為在2024年的生技產業白皮書上面寫是2023年從台灣出口到美國的藥品的金額就高達新台幣185億那請問次長就經濟部的了解和掌握台灣的藥品是否可能會因為這樣被科徵高關稅而失去了整個競爭的優勢\n\n19\n00:06:50,847 --> 00:07:05,229\n根本報告因為這個都還在美方都還在調查當中那他到底會課徵多少這個稅率這個我想等到我們這個看美國那邊這個評估了這個結果我們再來跟國人再做報告\n\n20\n00:07:06,252 --> 00:07:09,894\n所以其實像我認為政府應該每年出口美國上百億的國產的西藥其實要開始尋求外銷的市場像國產學名藥這些外銷可以協助本土廠商轉銷像東亞的東南亞的西南向的國家還是一些歐洲國家轉移市場還有烏俄戰爭之後全球其實那個時候發現一個很\n\n21\n00:07:27,503 --> 00:07:30,304\n嚴重的問題就是原料的整個供應的問題所以現在各國都在積極發展本土學民藥的產業所以也希望這一次可以政府的政策可以來扶植國內的學民藥的發展所以我想針對這方面次長目前國內藥廠的這些衝擊有影響嗎你有了解嗎還是你們有沒有研議怎麼樣的\n\n22\n00:07:50,532 --> 00:08:17,438\n措施跟委員報告這一次我們在這個韌性特別預算裡面本來就編列這個經濟部的部分大概460億當然就是會協助這些受衝擊的這個產業來提升競爭力然後分散市場那我們也當然協助我們國內的這個生技醫藥這些產業往這個不管在東南亞或是說我們到東北亞甚至到日本或是歐洲的地區我們去做一些這個展會\n\n23\n00:08:20,701 --> 00:08:23,313\n還有一些媒合會方面的一些活動\n\n24\n00:08:25,049 --> 00:08:36,533\n好所以還有一點就是比較也比較重要的就是藥證的取得時間是否有沒有考量整個鬆綁相關的法規可以協助藥界度過台美關稅貿易戰的這個欄關呢是這個跟衛福部共同研議討論嗎是這個部分我們也會來協助我們的那個國內的產業來做取證這個部分就法規的部分我我們也可以來協助\n\n25\n00:08:50,698 --> 00:08:56,086\n好謝謝那次長請回座我有請外交部林佳龍部長請部長喂好\n\n26\n00:09:04,209 --> 00:09:07,751\n部長好自從川普上任之後其實我們喊出美國再次偉大的口號核心戰略就是美國製造而美國利益優先本席有注意到美國媒體紐約時報在8月的時候美台的關係都是緊張中的標題有指出美國權益對台灣出口的半導體徵收了破壞性的關稅的可能性對台灣來說更大的威脅都是逼近的\n\n27\n00:09:30,282 --> 00:09:36,668\n那這是否表示台美的關係根本不是史上最好的呢因為紐約時報上面認為現在是關係異常的緊張啊因為我想請問部長一下就是你有沒有覺得美國對台灣的關係的態度非常的奇怪因為一方面說要保護台灣但是又要台灣拼命的編列了整個國防預算跟美國去買武器\n\n28\n00:09:52,623 --> 00:09:56,665\n然後一方面又希望台灣把經濟密賣的產業全部移到美國去讓人感覺台灣好像無形中都要被美國掏空了那我只想說請問部長你認為美國對台灣真正的態度的用意到底是什麼美國對台灣這樣所謂的他們所說說的好朋友是真心的還是虛情的還是假意的因為本席認為我國最需要的是美國對台政策的一致性否則川普\n\n29\n00:10:20,638 --> 00:10:36,691\n政府一方面在強調台灣戰略的重要性一方面又對台灣徵收高關稅而且最主要是把我們台灣最重要的產業護國神山我們都要雙手奉上請問這樣的做法真的是讓我非常的十分的擔憂所以我想請教部長你對這個有什麼看法報告委員如果從國際政治的本質就是實力這個所謂的\n\n30\n00:10:48,340 --> 00:11:13,643\n才能有和平嘛就是說其實所謂台美關係好不好我們要從台灣的國家利益跟美國國家利益以及之間的交集那我們要分層次來看去找出交集比如說台美之間有一個最底層的都是民主國家都有民意都有選舉所以彼此國民互相的這個認同包括就是我們對於這些民主自由人權的價值\n\n31\n00:11:14,424 --> 00:11:21,449\n這個是很深層很重要的並不是純粹就是現實的交易而已這個是一層第二個就是安全\n\n32\n00:11:22,335 --> 00:11:44,480\n因為當一個國家沒有了這個安全包括主權被併吞那你都沒有什麼國家利益所以台美之間在安全上是有很大的交集都面對要中國的擴張要挑戰以規則為基礎的國際秩序第三個我還想很重要就是我們的現實的利益在於經濟繁榮他們帶來人民的福祉這個如果找出交集啊\n\n33\n00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:56,776\n那利益一致自然關係就很好可是人的關係不是只有利益就像我們彼此之間的關係我們講如果說你愛不愛一個人是愛情\n\n34\n00:11:59,541 --> 00:12:18,353\n愛情啊很重要麵包也很重要因為你要吃得飽我們才能夠長期立志所以台美的關係要有愛情也要有麵包愛情就是理念相近這一個就是建立在民主法制的基礎另外一個就是我們利益一致那利益是要我們主動去找出跟美國一致的利益嘛\n\n35\n00:12:19,053 --> 00:12:34,496\n所以我們在談很多問題的時候一定要兩面都談要有同理心要換位思考去找出台美之間共同的利益然後堅持在我們共同的價值觀之上但是照我來看美國都是利益啊因為他需要台灣PD的國防預算啊其實他有他的長年的自由主義價值觀價值觀是很重要的\n\n36\n00:12:43,157 --> 00:13:06,007\n比如說美國的參眾兩院其實美國現在不是川普總統一個人決定外交政策是各種利害關係的競爭對外交政策的決定所以這個時候你看有些訊號感覺上有一點好像不一致可是如果你跑好地去把它分析其實台美的關係是好的那我們還要更好那我們要避免它不好\n\n37\n00:13:06,997 --> 00:13:33,355\n那因為中國是一個崛起的這個霸權他挑戰現有秩序那也挑戰到台灣也挑戰到美國啊所以我們怎麼樣跟美國有一個總和外交跟三鏈戰略就是在價值外交同盟外交跟經濟外交跟他鏈結在一起那符合彼此的利益這樣子外交關係就會很好好啦時間到了我還是期許外交部更加努力和美國建立更好的外交關係好我們會來努力\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1611\t7818\t謝謝主席有請經貿談判辦公室執命和經濟部次長請經貿辦還有經濟部次長就備巡台謝謝\n19452\t45881\t這個月月初十月三號媒體有報導台美關稅談判進入了深水區在五輪的磋商中台灣的速度的向美國提出避免雙重課稅上面協定行政院的副院長曾立軍在月初也在記者會上面說明第五輪的磋商台美共購的產業聚落有譜了但因為台灣的模式與日韓還有歐盟還有直接投資美國不同\n47181\t62611\t問題是在這第五輪的磋商雖然已經落幕了但台美雙方的供應鏈有關的台灣聚落的模式的合作還有最重要的232條款調查這可是涉及我們台灣最重要的護國神山半導體的存活的兩大議題現在有共識了嗎\n66349\t78893\t跟委員報告 現在台美雙方在持續密切的聯繫當中在談有關包括半導體產業在內的供應鏈合作方案所以到現在還沒有談好\n80894\t101690\t那在台灣模式這個部分的話我方是在這個跟由台灣佈局全球的總體戰略底下提出台灣的模式那包括第一個是由企業自主規劃到美國進行產業投資第二個是由政府來整合民間投資佈局增加對業者的金融支持第三個是透過台美政府G2G的合作來為我國企業打造有利的產業環境\n103484\t118483\t所以現在就是談判辦公室就是說副院長提到的台灣聚落模式這個方案是有確定但是現在是最新的談判的進度是美國到底有沒有正面回覆台灣提出的方案呢\n120155\t146998\t美方對我們的提案是感到興趣的那雙方也都是在這個美方對我方提出的台灣模式是有高度的興趣的那台美還是在就這個供應鏈的合作方案在跟美國商務部持續的磋商當中那我再請問一下就台灣聚落的模式真的可以為台灣創造出有別於日韓超過數千億美元的投資的心路嗎那要如何創造呢\n149544\t167595\t是,向委員報告,就是說有關於這個我們的台灣模式它的原由一開始是因為我們台灣的這個科學園區的經營模式它是全球獨有的再加上我們台灣的許多的產業園區這個工業區等等那其他國家難以複製這樣園區的規劃、籌設還有經營模式\n171317\t198953\t我國願意跟美國用透過政府跟政府的合作來創造有利產業聚落來形成的環境這樣也可以降低我國企業去單打獨鬥的這個成本跟風險所以我們是導入過去產業聚落以及科學園區的經驗來在這個談判裡面那耕留台灣還是我們談判的最高指導原則那我們的高科技產業的垂直供應鏈必須依照耕留台灣的原則來做全球佈局不是將產業外移\n200680\t219168\t所以其實我為什麼今天要提出這樣的疑問和擔憂是因為目前關於台灣聚落這整個模式有一些學者上面非常的優先的指出台積電在台灣能夠高效的運作是靠的是緊密的聚落上中下游的供應鏈從設備材料商和客戶的聚落的集中才能在機器故障的時候馬上隨時的支援但問題是美國的土地範圍非常的大\n229632\t233214\t產業環境分散根本沒有辦法在24小時內馬上隨時的配合經營的風險在台灣其實是高出許多的另外美國的勞動制度對工時其實他們要求的非常非常的嚴格台灣常見的責任制加班在美國可能會變成是強迫勞動\n247702\t251183\t所以這樣會不會增加台商未來到美國投資帶來的訴訟的成本還有就是另外一個挑戰是投資的規模上面的落差美方是期望我們台灣在美建立有50%的產能估計大約要5000億美元的投資但台積電目前承諾投資只有1650億的美元雙方的差距非常的大即便建立了產業的聚落如何才能達到美方滿意的\n276911\t278654\t規模呢不要到時候又犧牲了半導體然後讓台灣的產業被迫外移讓專業的人才外流那請問經濟部你怎麼樣看待這個擔憂和意見呢\n288045\t314543\t跟文報告那個台灣的這個科學園區或是我們產業園區發展的經驗他是一個群聚的一個大家供應鏈合作的一個結果那我想現在台積電已經宣布1651的投資案未來他會有這個六個這個晶圓廠在會在這個美國所以也就是說需要這個有台積電的相關的供應鏈必須要在旁邊來服務這個台積電的這個相關的一些運作\n317925\t346647\t他這個也是我們台灣科學園區成功的這個經驗所以未來可能會面臨到剛剛委員提到這些問題包括勞動力的這些問題或是說一些相關的這個美國相關的一些這個稅的這些問題的部分我想這個就是我們在跟美方在談判的過程裡面我們就是希望說政府對政府提供一些行政協力協助的這個部分那我想美方他們也有把這個部分列入考量\n347938\t359474\t希望千萬不要發生台灣產業和人才被迫到美國發展然後一定會衝擊到台灣就業的市場和經濟發展所以我還是希望我們還是要以台灣的利益為優先考量好不好那請執密先回座繼續我要請教經濟部的次長\n367130\t370572\t次長因為本席比較關心的是台美關稅中有關提高藥品關稅對我國的影響所以我想請教一下次長美國10月1號開始針對品牌和專利的藥品徵收100%的關稅藥品公司在美國設廠包括已經動工了還有正在施工的這些製藥廠才可以免除關稅那次長你知不知道美國其實是我國西藥製劑的最大的出口國\n391767\t395191\t因為在2024年的生技產業白皮書上面寫是2023年從台灣出口到美國的藥品的金額就高達新台幣185億那請問次長就經濟部的了解和掌握台灣的藥品是否可能會因為這樣被科徵高關稅而失去了整個競爭的優勢\n410847\t425229\t根本報告因為這個都還在美方都還在調查當中那他到底會課徵多少這個稅率這個我想等到我們這個看美國那邊這個評估了這個結果我們再來跟國人再做報告\n426252\t429894\t所以其實像我認為政府應該每年出口美國上百億的國產的西藥其實要開始尋求外銷的市場像國產學名藥這些外銷可以協助本土廠商轉銷像東亞的東南亞的西南向的國家還是一些歐洲國家轉移市場還有烏俄戰爭之後全球其實那個時候發現一個很\n447503\t450304\t嚴重的問題就是原料的整個供應的問題所以現在各國都在積極發展本土學民藥的產業所以也希望這一次可以政府的政策可以來扶植國內的學民藥的發展所以我想針對這方面次長目前國內藥廠的這些衝擊有影響嗎你有了解嗎還是你們有沒有研議怎麼樣的\n470532\t497438\t措施跟委員報告這一次我們在這個韌性特別預算裡面本來就編列這個經濟部的部分大概460億當然就是會協助這些受衝擊的這個產業來提升競爭力然後分散市場那我們也當然協助我們國內的這個生技醫藥這些產業往這個不管在東南亞或是說我們到東北亞甚至到日本或是歐洲的地區我們去做一些這個展會\n500701\t503313\t還有一些媒合會方面的一些活動\n505049\t516533\t好所以還有一點就是比較也比較重要的就是藥證的取得時間是否有沒有考量整個鬆綁相關的法規可以協助藥界度過台美關稅貿易戰的這個欄關呢是這個跟衛福部共同研議討論嗎是這個部分我們也會來協助我們的那個國內的產業來做取證這個部分就法規的部分我我們也可以來協助\n530698\t536086\t好謝謝那次長請回座我有請外交部林佳龍部長請部長喂好\n544209\t547751\t部長好自從川普上任之後其實我們喊出美國再次偉大的口號核心戰略就是美國製造而美國利益優先本席有注意到美國媒體紐約時報在8月的時候美台的關係都是緊張中的標題有指出美國權益對台灣出口的半導體徵收了破壞性的關稅的可能性對台灣來說更大的威脅都是逼近的\n570282\t576668\t那這是否表示台美的關係根本不是史上最好的呢因為紐約時報上面認為現在是關係異常的緊張啊因為我想請問部長一下就是你有沒有覺得美國對台灣的關係的態度非常的奇怪因為一方面說要保護台灣但是又要台灣拼命的編列了整個國防預算跟美國去買武器\n592623\t596665\t然後一方面又希望台灣把經濟密賣的產業全部移到美國去讓人感覺台灣好像無形中都要被美國掏空了那我只想說請問部長你認為美國對台灣真正的態度的用意到底是什麼美國對台灣這樣所謂的他們所說說的好朋友是真心的還是虛情的還是假意的因為本席認為我國最需要的是美國對台政策的一致性否則川普\n620638\t636691\t政府一方面在強調台灣戰略的重要性一方面又對台灣徵收高關稅而且最主要是把我們台灣最重要的產業護國神山我們都要雙手奉上請問這樣的做法真的是讓我非常的十分的擔憂所以我想請教部長你對這個有什麼看法報告委員如果從國際政治的本質就是實力這個所謂的\n648340\t673643\t才能有和平嘛就是說其實所謂台美關係好不好我們要從台灣的國家利益跟美國國家利益以及之間的交集那我們要分層次來看去找出交集比如說台美之間有一個最底層的都是民主國家都有民意都有選舉所以彼此國民互相的這個認同包括就是我們對於這些民主自由人權的價值\n674424\t681449\t這個是很深層很重要的並不是純粹就是現實的交易而已這個是一層第二個就是安全\n682335\t704480\t因為當一個國家沒有了這個安全包括主權被併吞那你都沒有什麼國家利益所以台美之間在安全上是有很大的交集都面對要中國的擴張要挑戰以規則為基礎的國際秩序第三個我還想很重要就是我們的現實的利益在於經濟繁榮他們帶來人民的福祉這個如果找出交集啊\n705120\t716776\t那利益一致 自然關係就很好可是人的關係不是只有利益就像我們彼此之間的關係我們講 如果說你愛不愛一個人是愛情\n719541\t738353\t愛情啊很重要麵包也很重要因為你要吃得飽我們才能夠長期立志所以台美的關係要有愛情也要有麵包愛情就是理念相近這一個就是建立在民主法制的基礎另外一個就是我們利益一致那利益是要我們主動去找出跟美國一致的利益嘛\n739053\t754496\t所以我們在談很多問題的時候一定要兩面都談要有同理心要換位思考去找出台美之間共同的利益然後堅持在我們共同的價值觀之上但是照我來看美國都是利益啊因為他需要台灣PD的國防預算啊其實他有他的長年的自由主義價值觀價值觀是很重要的\n763157\t786007\t比如說美國的參眾兩院其實美國現在不是川普總統一個人決定外交政策是各種利害關係的競爭對外交政策的決定所以這個時候你看有些訊號感覺上有一點好像不一致可是如果你跑好地去把它分析其實台美的關係是好的那我們還要更好那我們要避免它不好\n786997\t813355\t那因為中國是一個崛起的這個霸權他挑戰現有秩序那也挑戰到台灣也挑戰到美國啊所以我們怎麼樣跟美國有一個總和外交跟三鏈戰略就是在價值外交同盟外交跟經濟外交跟他鏈結在一起那符合彼此的利益這樣子外交關係就會很好好啦時間到了我還是期許外交部更加努力和美國建立更好的外交關係好我們會來努力\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請經貿談判辦公室執命和經濟部次長請經貿辦還有經濟部次長就備巡台謝謝\n這個月月初十月三號媒體有報導台美關稅談判進入了深水區在五輪的磋商中台灣的速度的向美國提出避免雙重課稅上面協定行政院的副院長曾立軍在月初也在記者會上面說明第五輪的磋商台美共購的產業聚落有譜了但因為台灣的模式與日韓還有歐盟還有直接投資美國不同\n問題是在這第五輪的磋商雖然已經落幕了但台美雙方的供應鏈有關的台灣聚落的模式的合作還有最重要的232條款調查這可是涉及我們台灣最重要的護國神山半導體的存活的兩大議題現在有共識了嗎\n跟委員報告 現在台美雙方在持續密切的聯繫當中在談有關包括半導體產業在內的供應鏈合作方案所以到現在還沒有談好\n那在台灣模式這個部分的話我方是在這個跟由台灣佈局全球的總體戰略底下提出台灣的模式那包括第一個是由企業自主規劃到美國進行產業投資第二個是由政府來整合民間投資佈局增加對業者的金融支持第三個是透過台美政府G2G的合作來為我國企業打造有利的產業環境\n所以現在就是談判辦公室就是說副院長提到的台灣聚落模式這個方案是有確定但是現在是最新的談判的進度是美國到底有沒有正面回覆台灣提出的方案呢\n美方對我們的提案是感到興趣的那雙方也都是在這個美方對我方提出的台灣模式是有高度的興趣的那台美還是在就這個供應鏈的合作方案在跟美國商務部持續的磋商當中那我再請問一下就台灣聚落的模式真的可以為台灣創造出有別於日韓超過數千億美元的投資的心路嗎那要如何創造呢\n是,向委員報告,就是說有關於這個我們的台灣模式它的原由一開始是因為我們台灣的這個科學園區的經營模式它是全球獨有的再加上我們台灣的許多的產業園區這個工業區等等那其他國家難以複製這樣園區的規劃、籌設還有經營模式\n我國願意跟美國用透過政府跟政府的合作來創造有利產業聚落來形成的環境這樣也可以降低我國企業去單打獨鬥的這個成本跟風險所以我們是導入過去產業聚落以及科學園區的經驗來在這個談判裡面那耕留台灣還是我們談判的最高指導原則那我們的高科技產業的垂直供應鏈必須依照耕留台灣的原則來做全球佈局不是將產業外移\n所以其實我為什麼今天要提出這樣的疑問和擔憂是因為目前關於台灣聚落這整個模式有一些學者上面非常的優先的指出台積電在台灣能夠高效的運作是靠的是緊密的聚落上中下游的供應鏈從設備材料商和客戶的聚落的集中才能在機器故障的時候馬上隨時的支援但問題是美國的土地範圍非常的大\n產業環境分散根本沒有辦法在24小時內馬上隨時的配合經營的風險在台灣其實是高出許多的另外美國的勞動制度對工時其實他們要求的非常非常的嚴格台灣常見的責任制加班在美國可能會變成是強迫勞動\n所以這樣會不會增加台商未來到美國投資帶來的訴訟的成本還有就是另外一個挑戰是投資的規模上面的落差美方是期望我們台灣在美建立有50%的產能估計大約要5000億美元的投資但台積電目前承諾投資只有1650億的美元雙方的差距非常的大即便建立了產業的聚落如何才能達到美方滿意的\n規模呢不要到時候又犧牲了半導體然後讓台灣的產業被迫外移讓專業的人才外流那請問經濟部你怎麼樣看待這個擔憂和意見呢\n跟文報告那個台灣的這個科學園區或是我們產業園區發展的經驗他是一個群聚的一個大家供應鏈合作的一個結果那我想現在台積電已經宣布1651的投資案未來他會有這個六個這個晶圓廠在會在這個美國所以也就是說需要這個有台積電的相關的供應鏈必須要在旁邊來服務這個台積電的這個相關的一些運作\n他這個也是我們台灣科學園區成功的這個經驗所以未來可能會面臨到剛剛委員提到這些問題包括勞動力的這些問題或是說一些相關的這個美國相關的一些這個稅的這些問題的部分我想這個就是我們在跟美方在談判的過程裡面我們就是希望說政府對政府提供一些行政協力協助的這個部分那我想美方他們也有把這個部分列入考量\n希望千萬不要發生台灣產業和人才被迫到美國發展然後一定會衝擊到台灣就業的市場和經濟發展所以我還是希望我們還是要以台灣的利益為優先考量好不好那請執密先回座繼續我要請教經濟部的次長\n次長因為本席比較關心的是台美關稅中有關提高藥品關稅對我國的影響所以我想請教一下次長美國10月1號開始針對品牌和專利的藥品徵收100%的關稅藥品公司在美國設廠包括已經動工了還有正在施工的這些製藥廠才可以免除關稅那次長你知不知道美國其實是我國西藥製劑的最大的出口國\n因為在2024年的生技產業白皮書上面寫是2023年從台灣出口到美國的藥品的金額就高達新台幣185億那請問次長就經濟部的了解和掌握台灣的藥品是否可能會因為這樣被科徵高關稅而失去了整個競爭的優勢\n根本報告因為這個都還在美方都還在調查當中那他到底會課徵多少這個稅率這個我想等到我們這個看美國那邊這個評估了這個結果我們再來跟國人再做報告\n所以其實像我認為政府應該每年出口美國上百億的國產的西藥其實要開始尋求外銷的市場像國產學名藥這些外銷可以協助本土廠商轉銷像東亞的東南亞的西南向的國家還是一些歐洲國家轉移市場還有烏俄戰爭之後全球其實那個時候發現一個很\n嚴重的問題就是原料的整個供應的問題所以現在各國都在積極發展本土學民藥的產業所以也希望這一次可以政府的政策可以來扶植國內的學民藥的發展所以我想針對這方面次長目前國內藥廠的這些衝擊有影響嗎你有了解嗎還是你們有沒有研議怎麼樣的\n措施跟委員報告這一次我們在這個韌性特別預算裡面本來就編列這個經濟部的部分大概460億當然就是會協助這些受衝擊的這個產業來提升競爭力然後分散市場那我們也當然協助我們國內的這個生技醫藥這些產業往這個不管在東南亞或是說我們到東北亞甚至到日本或是歐洲的地區我們去做一些這個展會\n還有一些媒合會方面的一些活動\n好所以還有一點就是比較也比較重要的就是藥證的取得時間是否有沒有考量整個鬆綁相關的法規可以協助藥界度過台美關稅貿易戰的這個欄關呢是這個跟衛福部共同研議討論嗎是這個部分我們也會來協助我們的那個國內的產業來做取證這個部分就法規的部分我我們也可以來協助\n好謝謝那次長請回座我有請外交部林佳龍部長請部長喂好\n部長好自從川普上任之後其實我們喊出美國再次偉大的口號核心戰略就是美國製造而美國利益優先本席有注意到美國媒體紐約時報在8月的時候美台的關係都是緊張中的標題有指出美國權益對台灣出口的半導體徵收了破壞性的關稅的可能性對台灣來說更大的威脅都是逼近的\n那這是否表示台美的關係根本不是史上最好的呢因為紐約時報上面認為現在是關係異常的緊張啊因為我想請問部長一下就是你有沒有覺得美國對台灣的關係的態度非常的奇怪因為一方面說要保護台灣但是又要台灣拼命的編列了整個國防預算跟美國去買武器\n然後一方面又希望台灣把經濟密賣的產業全部移到美國去讓人感覺台灣好像無形中都要被美國掏空了那我只想說請問部長你認為美國對台灣真正的態度的用意到底是什麼美國對台灣這樣所謂的他們所說說的好朋友是真心的還是虛情的還是假意的因為本席認為我國最需要的是美國對台政策的一致性否則川普\n政府一方面在強調台灣戰略的重要性一方面又對台灣徵收高關稅而且最主要是把我們台灣最重要的產業護國神山我們都要雙手奉上請問這樣的做法真的是讓我非常的十分的擔憂所以我想請教部長你對這個有什麼看法報告委員如果從國際政治的本質就是實力這個所謂的\n才能有和平嘛就是說其實所謂台美關係好不好我們要從台灣的國家利益跟美國國家利益以及之間的交集那我們要分層次來看去找出交集比如說台美之間有一個最底層的都是民主國家都有民意都有選舉所以彼此國民互相的這個認同包括就是我們對於這些民主自由人權的價值\n這個是很深層很重要的並不是純粹就是現實的交易而已這個是一層第二個就是安全\n因為當一個國家沒有了這個安全包括主權被併吞那你都沒有什麼國家利益所以台美之間在安全上是有很大的交集都面對要中國的擴張要挑戰以規則為基礎的國際秩序第三個我還想很重要就是我們的現實的利益在於經濟繁榮他們帶來人民的福祉這個如果找出交集啊\n那利益一致 自然關係就很好可是人的關係不是只有利益就像我們彼此之間的關係我們講 如果說你愛不愛一個人是愛情\n愛情啊很重要麵包也很重要因為你要吃得飽我們才能夠長期立志所以台美的關係要有愛情也要有麵包愛情就是理念相近這一個就是建立在民主法制的基礎另外一個就是我們利益一致那利益是要我們主動去找出跟美國一致的利益嘛\n所以我們在談很多問題的時候一定要兩面都談要有同理心要換位思考去找出台美之間共同的利益然後堅持在我們共同的價值觀之上但是照我來看美國都是利益啊因為他需要台灣PD的國防預算啊其實他有他的長年的自由主義價值觀價值觀是很重要的\n比如說美國的參眾兩院其實美國現在不是川普總統一個人決定外交政策是各種利害關係的競爭對外交政策的決定所以這個時候你看有些訊號感覺上有一點好像不一致可是如果你跑好地去把它分析其實台美的關係是好的那我們還要更好那我們要避免它不好\n那因為中國是一個崛起的這個霸權他挑戰現有秩序那也挑戰到台灣也挑戰到美國啊所以我們怎麼樣跟美國有一個總和外交跟三鏈戰略就是在價值外交同盟外交跟經濟外交跟他鏈結在一起那符合彼此的利益這樣子外交關係就會很好好啦時間到了我還是期許外交部更加努力和美國建立更好的外交關係好我們會來努力\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.611 --> 00:07.818\n謝謝主席有請經貿談判辦公室執命和經濟部次長請經貿辦還有經濟部次長就備巡台謝謝\n\n00:19.452 --> 00:45.881\n這個月月初十月三號媒體有報導台美關稅談判進入了深水區在五輪的磋商中台灣的速度的向美國提出避免雙重課稅上面協定行政院的副院長曾立軍在月初也在記者會上面說明第五輪的磋商台美共購的產業聚落有譜了但因為台灣的模式與日韓還有歐盟還有直接投資美國不同\n\n00:47.181 --> 01:02.611\n問題是在這第五輪的磋商雖然已經落幕了但台美雙方的供應鏈有關的台灣聚落的模式的合作還有最重要的232條款調查這可是涉及我們台灣最重要的護國神山半導體的存活的兩大議題現在有共識了嗎\n\n01:06.349 --> 01:18.893\n跟委員報告現在台美雙方在持續密切的聯繫當中在談有關包括半導體產業在內的供應鏈合作方案所以到現在還沒有談好\n\n01:20.894 --> 01:41.690\n那在台灣模式這個部分的話我方是在這個跟由台灣佈局全球的總體戰略底下提出台灣的模式那包括第一個是由企業自主規劃到美國進行產業投資第二個是由政府來整合民間投資佈局增加對業者的金融支持第三個是透過台美政府G2G的合作來為我國企業打造有利的產業環境\n\n01:43.484 --> 01:58.483\n所以現在就是談判辦公室就是說副院長提到的台灣聚落模式這個方案是有確定但是現在是最新的談判的進度是美國到底有沒有正面回覆台灣提出的方案呢\n\n02:00.155 --> 02:26.998\n美方對我們的提案是感到興趣的那雙方也都是在這個美方對我方提出的台灣模式是有高度的興趣的那台美還是在就這個供應鏈的合作方案在跟美國商務部持續的磋商當中那我再請問一下就台灣聚落的模式真的可以為台灣創造出有別於日韓超過數千億美元的投資的心路嗎那要如何創造呢\n\n02:29.544 --> 02:47.595\n是,向委員報告,就是說有關於這個我們的台灣模式它的原由一開始是因為我們台灣的這個科學園區的經營模式它是全球獨有的再加上我們台灣的許多的產業園區這個工業區等等那其他國家難以複製這樣園區的規劃、籌設還有經營模式\n\n02:51.317 --> 03:18.953\n我國願意跟美國用透過政府跟政府的合作來創造有利產業聚落來形成的環境這樣也可以降低我國企業去單打獨鬥的這個成本跟風險所以我們是導入過去產業聚落以及科學園區的經驗來在這個談判裡面那耕留台灣還是我們談判的最高指導原則那我們的高科技產業的垂直供應鏈必須依照耕留台灣的原則來做全球佈局不是將產業外移\n\n03:20.680 --> 03:39.168\n所以其實我為什麼今天要提出這樣的疑問和擔憂是因為目前關於台灣聚落這整個模式有一些學者上面非常的優先的指出台積電在台灣能夠高效的運作是靠的是緊密的聚落上中下游的供應鏈從設備材料商和客戶的聚落的集中才能在機器故障的時候馬上隨時的支援但問題是美國的土地範圍非常的大\n\n03:49.632 --> 03:53.214\n產業環境分散根本沒有辦法在24小時內馬上隨時的配合經營的風險在台灣其實是高出許多的另外美國的勞動制度對工時其實他們要求的非常非常的嚴格台灣常見的責任制加班在美國可能會變成是強迫勞動\n\n04:07.702 --> 04:11.183\n所以這樣會不會增加台商未來到美國投資帶來的訴訟的成本還有就是另外一個挑戰是投資的規模上面的落差美方是期望我們台灣在美建立有50%的產能估計大約要5000億美元的投資但台積電目前承諾投資只有1650億的美元雙方的差距非常的大即便建立了產業的聚落如何才能達到美方滿意的\n\n04:36.911 --> 04:38.654\n規模呢不要到時候又犧牲了半導體然後讓台灣的產業被迫外移讓專業的人才外流那請問經濟部你怎麼樣看待這個擔憂和意見呢\n\n04:48.045 --> 05:14.543\n跟文報告那個台灣的這個科學園區或是我們產業園區發展的經驗他是一個群聚的一個大家供應鏈合作的一個結果那我想現在台積電已經宣布1651的投資案未來他會有這個六個這個晶圓廠在會在這個美國所以也就是說需要這個有台積電的相關的供應鏈必須要在旁邊來服務這個台積電的這個相關的一些運作\n\n05:17.925 --> 05:46.647\n他這個也是我們台灣科學園區成功的這個經驗所以未來可能會面臨到剛剛委員提到這些問題包括勞動力的這些問題或是說一些相關的這個美國相關的一些這個稅的這些問題的部分我想這個就是我們在跟美方在談判的過程裡面我們就是希望說政府對政府提供一些行政協力協助的這個部分那我想美方他們也有把這個部分列入考量\n\n05:47.938 --> 05:59.474\n希望千萬不要發生台灣產業和人才被迫到美國發展然後一定會衝擊到台灣就業的市場和經濟發展所以我還是希望我們還是要以台灣的利益為優先考量好不好那請執密先回座繼續我要請教經濟部的次長\n\n06:07.130 --> 06:10.572\n次長因為本席比較關心的是台美關稅中有關提高藥品關稅對我國的影響所以我想請教一下次長美國10月1號開始針對品牌和專利的藥品徵收100%的關稅藥品公司在美國設廠包括已經動工了還有正在施工的這些製藥廠才可以免除關稅那次長你知不知道美國其實是我國西藥製劑的最大的出口國\n\n06:31.767 --> 06:35.191\n因為在2024年的生技產業白皮書上面寫是2023年從台灣出口到美國的藥品的金額就高達新台幣185億那請問次長就經濟部的了解和掌握台灣的藥品是否可能會因為這樣被科徵高關稅而失去了整個競爭的優勢\n\n06:50.847 --> 07:05.229\n根本報告因為這個都還在美方都還在調查當中那他到底會課徵多少這個稅率這個我想等到我們這個看美國那邊這個評估了這個結果我們再來跟國人再做報告\n\n07:06.252 --> 07:09.894\n所以其實像我認為政府應該每年出口美國上百億的國產的西藥其實要開始尋求外銷的市場像國產學名藥這些外銷可以協助本土廠商轉銷像東亞的東南亞的西南向的國家還是一些歐洲國家轉移市場還有烏俄戰爭之後全球其實那個時候發現一個很\n\n07:27.503 --> 07:30.304\n嚴重的問題就是原料的整個供應的問題所以現在各國都在積極發展本土學民藥的產業所以也希望這一次可以政府的政策可以來扶植國內的學民藥的發展所以我想針對這方面次長目前國內藥廠的這些衝擊有影響嗎你有了解嗎還是你們有沒有研議怎麼樣的\n\n07:50.532 --> 08:17.438\n措施跟委員報告這一次我們在這個韌性特別預算裡面本來就編列這個經濟部的部分大概460億當然就是會協助這些受衝擊的這個產業來提升競爭力然後分散市場那我們也當然協助我們國內的這個生技醫藥這些產業往這個不管在東南亞或是說我們到東北亞甚至到日本或是歐洲的地區我們去做一些這個展會\n\n08:20.701 --> 08:23.313\n還有一些媒合會方面的一些活動\n\n08:25.049 --> 08:36.533\n好所以還有一點就是比較也比較重要的就是藥證的取得時間是否有沒有考量整個鬆綁相關的法規可以協助藥界度過台美關稅貿易戰的這個欄關呢是這個跟衛福部共同研議討論嗎是這個部分我們也會來協助我們的那個國內的產業來做取證這個部分就法規的部分我我們也可以來協助\n\n08:50.698 --> 08:56.086\n好謝謝那次長請回座我有請外交部林佳龍部長請部長喂好\n\n09:04.209 --> 09:07.751\n部長好自從川普上任之後其實我們喊出美國再次偉大的口號核心戰略就是美國製造而美國利益優先本席有注意到美國媒體紐約時報在8月的時候美台的關係都是緊張中的標題有指出美國權益對台灣出口的半導體徵收了破壞性的關稅的可能性對台灣來說更大的威脅都是逼近的\n\n09:30.282 --> 09:36.668\n那這是否表示台美的關係根本不是史上最好的呢因為紐約時報上面認為現在是關係異常的緊張啊因為我想請問部長一下就是你有沒有覺得美國對台灣的關係的態度非常的奇怪因為一方面說要保護台灣但是又要台灣拼命的編列了整個國防預算跟美國去買武器\n\n09:52.623 --> 09:56.665\n然後一方面又希望台灣把經濟密賣的產業全部移到美國去讓人感覺台灣好像無形中都要被美國掏空了那我只想說請問部長你認為美國對台灣真正的態度的用意到底是什麼美國對台灣這樣所謂的他們所說說的好朋友是真心的還是虛情的還是假意的因為本席認為我國最需要的是美國對台政策的一致性否則川普\n\n10:20.638 --> 10:36.691\n政府一方面在強調台灣戰略的重要性一方面又對台灣徵收高關稅而且最主要是把我們台灣最重要的產業護國神山我們都要雙手奉上請問這樣的做法真的是讓我非常的十分的擔憂所以我想請教部長你對這個有什麼看法報告委員如果從國際政治的本質就是實力這個所謂的\n\n10:48.340 --> 11:13.643\n才能有和平嘛就是說其實所謂台美關係好不好我們要從台灣的國家利益跟美國國家利益以及之間的交集那我們要分層次來看去找出交集比如說台美之間有一個最底層的都是民主國家都有民意都有選舉所以彼此國民互相的這個認同包括就是我們對於這些民主自由人權的價值\n\n11:14.424 --> 11:21.449\n這個是很深層很重要的並不是純粹就是現實的交易而已這個是一層第二個就是安全\n\n11:22.335 --> 11:44.480\n因為當一個國家沒有了這個安全包括主權被併吞那你都沒有什麼國家利益所以台美之間在安全上是有很大的交集都面對要中國的擴張要挑戰以規則為基礎的國際秩序第三個我還想很重要就是我們的現實的利益在於經濟繁榮他們帶來人民的福祉這個如果找出交集啊\n\n11:45.120 --> 11:56.776\n那利益一致自然關係就很好可是人的關係不是只有利益就像我們彼此之間的關係我們講如果說你愛不愛一個人是愛情\n\n11:59.541 --> 12:18.353\n愛情啊很重要麵包也很重要因為你要吃得飽我們才能夠長期立志所以台美的關係要有愛情也要有麵包愛情就是理念相近這一個就是建立在民主法制的基礎另外一個就是我們利益一致那利益是要我們主動去找出跟美國一致的利益嘛\n\n12:19.053 --> 12:34.496\n所以我們在談很多問題的時候一定要兩面都談要有同理心要換位思考去找出台美之間共同的利益然後堅持在我們共同的價值觀之上但是照我來看美國都是利益啊因為他需要台灣PD的國防預算啊其實他有他的長年的自由主義價值觀價值觀是很重要的\n\n12:43.157 --> 13:06.007\n比如說美國的參眾兩院其實美國現在不是川普總統一個人決定外交政策是各種利害關係的競爭對外交政策的決定所以這個時候你看有些訊號感覺上有一點好像不一致可是如果你跑好地去把它分析其實台美的關係是好的那我們還要更好那我們要避免它不好\n\n13:06.997 --> 13:33.355\n那因為中國是一個崛起的這個霸權他挑戰現有秩序那也挑戰到台灣也挑戰到美國啊所以我們怎麼樣跟美國有一個總和外交跟三鏈戰略就是在價值外交同盟外交跟經濟外交跟他鏈結在一起那符合彼此的利益這樣子外交關係就會很好好啦時間到了我還是期許外交部更加努力和美國建立更好的外交關係好我們會來努力\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.611,"end":7.818,"text":"謝謝主席有請經貿談判辦公室執命和經濟部次長請經貿辦還有經濟部次長就備巡台謝謝"},{"start":19.452,"end":45.881,"text":"這個月月初十月三號媒體有報導台美關稅談判進入了深水區在五輪的磋商中台灣的速度的向美國提出避免雙重課稅上面協定行政院的副院長曾立軍在月初也在記者會上面說明第五輪的磋商台美共購的產業聚落有譜了但因為台灣的模式與日韓還有歐盟還有直接投資美國不同"},{"start":47.181,"end":62.611,"text":"問題是在這第五輪的磋商雖然已經落幕了但台美雙方的供應鏈有關的台灣聚落的模式的合作還有最重要的232條款調查這可是涉及我們台灣最重要的護國神山半導體的存活的兩大議題現在有共識了嗎"},{"start":66.349,"end":78.893,"text":"跟委員報告 現在台美雙方在持續密切的聯繫當中在談有關包括半導體產業在內的供應鏈合作方案所以到現在還沒有談好"},{"start":80.894,"end":101.69,"text":"那在台灣模式這個部分的話我方是在這個跟由台灣佈局全球的總體戰略底下提出台灣的模式那包括第一個是由企業自主規劃到美國進行產業投資第二個是由政府來整合民間投資佈局增加對業者的金融支持第三個是透過台美政府G2G的合作來為我國企業打造有利的產業環境"},{"start":103.484,"end":118.483,"text":"所以現在就是談判辦公室就是說副院長提到的台灣聚落模式這個方案是有確定但是現在是最新的談判的進度是美國到底有沒有正面回覆台灣提出的方案呢"},{"start":120.155,"end":146.998,"text":"美方對我們的提案是感到興趣的那雙方也都是在這個美方對我方提出的台灣模式是有高度的興趣的那台美還是在就這個供應鏈的合作方案在跟美國商務部持續的磋商當中那我再請問一下就台灣聚落的模式真的可以為台灣創造出有別於日韓超過數千億美元的投資的心路嗎那要如何創造呢"},{"start":149.544,"end":167.595,"text":"是,向委員報告,就是說有關於這個我們的台灣模式它的原由一開始是因為我們台灣的這個科學園區的經營模式它是全球獨有的再加上我們台灣的許多的產業園區這個工業區等等那其他國家難以複製這樣園區的規劃、籌設還有經營模式"},{"start":171.317,"end":198.953,"text":"我國願意跟美國用透過政府跟政府的合作來創造有利產業聚落來形成的環境這樣也可以降低我國企業去單打獨鬥的這個成本跟風險所以我們是導入過去產業聚落以及科學園區的經驗來在這個談判裡面那耕留台灣還是我們談判的最高指導原則那我們的高科技產業的垂直供應鏈必須依照耕留台灣的原則來做全球佈局不是將產業外移"},{"start":200.68,"end":219.168,"text":"所以其實我為什麼今天要提出這樣的疑問和擔憂是因為目前關於台灣聚落這整個模式有一些學者上面非常的優先的指出台積電在台灣能夠高效的運作是靠的是緊密的聚落上中下游的供應鏈從設備材料商和客戶的聚落的集中才能在機器故障的時候馬上隨時的支援但問題是美國的土地範圍非常的大"},{"start":229.632,"end":233.214,"text":"產業環境分散根本沒有辦法在24小時內馬上隨時的配合經營的風險在台灣其實是高出許多的另外美國的勞動制度對工時其實他們要求的非常非常的嚴格台灣常見的責任制加班在美國可能會變成是強迫勞動"},{"start":247.702,"end":251.183,"text":"所以這樣會不會增加台商未來到美國投資帶來的訴訟的成本還有就是另外一個挑戰是投資的規模上面的落差美方是期望我們台灣在美建立有50%的產能估計大約要5000億美元的投資但台積電目前承諾投資只有1650億的美元雙方的差距非常的大即便建立了產業的聚落如何才能達到美方滿意的"},{"start":276.911,"end":278.654,"text":"規模呢不要到時候又犧牲了半導體然後讓台灣的產業被迫外移讓專業的人才外流那請問經濟部你怎麼樣看待這個擔憂和意見呢"},{"start":288.045,"end":314.543,"text":"跟文報告那個台灣的這個科學園區或是我們產業園區發展的經驗他是一個群聚的一個大家供應鏈合作的一個結果那我想現在台積電已經宣布1651的投資案未來他會有這個六個這個晶圓廠在會在這個美國所以也就是說需要這個有台積電的相關的供應鏈必須要在旁邊來服務這個台積電的這個相關的一些運作"},{"start":317.925,"end":346.647,"text":"他這個也是我們台灣科學園區成功的這個經驗所以未來可能會面臨到剛剛委員提到這些問題包括勞動力的這些問題或是說一些相關的這個美國相關的一些這個稅的這些問題的部分我想這個就是我們在跟美方在談判的過程裡面我們就是希望說政府對政府提供一些行政協力協助的這個部分那我想美方他們也有把這個部分列入考量"},{"start":347.938,"end":359.474,"text":"希望千萬不要發生台灣產業和人才被迫到美國發展然後一定會衝擊到台灣就業的市場和經濟發展所以我還是希望我們還是要以台灣的利益為優先考量好不好那請執密先回座繼續我要請教經濟部的次長"},{"start":367.13,"end":370.572,"text":"次長因為本席比較關心的是台美關稅中有關提高藥品關稅對我國的影響所以我想請教一下次長美國10月1號開始針對品牌和專利的藥品徵收100%的關稅藥品公司在美國設廠包括已經動工了還有正在施工的這些製藥廠才可以免除關稅那次長你知不知道美國其實是我國西藥製劑的最大的出口國"},{"start":391.767,"end":395.191,"text":"因為在2024年的生技產業白皮書上面寫是2023年從台灣出口到美國的藥品的金額就高達新台幣185億那請問次長就經濟部的了解和掌握台灣的藥品是否可能會因為這樣被科徵高關稅而失去了整個競爭的優勢"},{"start":410.847,"end":425.229,"text":"根本報告因為這個都還在美方都還在調查當中那他到底會課徵多少這個稅率這個我想等到我們這個看美國那邊這個評估了這個結果我們再來跟國人再做報告"},{"start":426.252,"end":429.894,"text":"所以其實像我認為政府應該每年出口美國上百億的國產的西藥其實要開始尋求外銷的市場像國產學名藥這些外銷可以協助本土廠商轉銷像東亞的東南亞的西南向的國家還是一些歐洲國家轉移市場還有烏俄戰爭之後全球其實那個時候發現一個很"},{"start":447.503,"end":450.304,"text":"嚴重的問題就是原料的整個供應的問題所以現在各國都在積極發展本土學民藥的產業所以也希望這一次可以政府的政策可以來扶植國內的學民藥的發展所以我想針對這方面次長目前國內藥廠的這些衝擊有影響嗎你有了解嗎還是你們有沒有研議怎麼樣的"},{"start":470.532,"end":497.438,"text":"措施跟委員報告這一次我們在這個韌性特別預算裡面本來就編列這個經濟部的部分大概460億當然就是會協助這些受衝擊的這個產業來提升競爭力然後分散市場那我們也當然協助我們國內的這個生技醫藥這些產業往這個不管在東南亞或是說我們到東北亞甚至到日本或是歐洲的地區我們去做一些這個展會"},{"start":500.701,"end":503.313,"text":"還有一些媒合會方面的一些活動"},{"start":505.049,"end":516.533,"text":"好所以還有一點就是比較也比較重要的就是藥證的取得時間是否有沒有考量整個鬆綁相關的法規可以協助藥界度過台美關稅貿易戰的這個欄關呢是這個跟衛福部共同研議討論嗎是這個部分我們也會來協助我們的那個國內的產業來做取證這個部分就法規的部分我我們也可以來協助"},{"start":530.698,"end":536.086,"text":"好謝謝那次長請回座我有請外交部林佳龍部長請部長喂好"},{"start":544.209,"end":547.751,"text":"部長好自從川普上任之後其實我們喊出美國再次偉大的口號核心戰略就是美國製造而美國利益優先本席有注意到美國媒體紐約時報在8月的時候美台的關係都是緊張中的標題有指出美國權益對台灣出口的半導體徵收了破壞性的關稅的可能性對台灣來說更大的威脅都是逼近的"},{"start":570.282,"end":576.668,"text":"那這是否表示台美的關係根本不是史上最好的呢因為紐約時報上面認為現在是關係異常的緊張啊因為我想請問部長一下就是你有沒有覺得美國對台灣的關係的態度非常的奇怪因為一方面說要保護台灣但是又要台灣拼命的編列了整個國防預算跟美國去買武器"},{"start":592.623,"end":596.665,"text":"然後一方面又希望台灣把經濟密賣的產業全部移到美國去讓人感覺台灣好像無形中都要被美國掏空了那我只想說請問部長你認為美國對台灣真正的態度的用意到底是什麼美國對台灣這樣所謂的他們所說說的好朋友是真心的還是虛情的還是假意的因為本席認為我國最需要的是美國對台政策的一致性否則川普"},{"start":620.638,"end":636.691,"text":"政府一方面在強調台灣戰略的重要性一方面又對台灣徵收高關稅而且最主要是把我們台灣最重要的產業護國神山我們都要雙手奉上請問這樣的做法真的是讓我非常的十分的擔憂所以我想請教部長你對這個有什麼看法報告委員如果從國際政治的本質就是實力這個所謂的"},{"start":648.34,"end":673.643,"text":"才能有和平嘛就是說其實所謂台美關係好不好我們要從台灣的國家利益跟美國國家利益以及之間的交集那我們要分層次來看去找出交集比如說台美之間有一個最底層的都是民主國家都有民意都有選舉所以彼此國民互相的這個認同包括就是我們對於這些民主自由人權的價值"},{"start":674.424,"end":681.449,"text":"這個是很深層很重要的並不是純粹就是現實的交易而已這個是一層第二個就是安全"},{"start":682.335,"end":704.48,"text":"因為當一個國家沒有了這個安全包括主權被併吞那你都沒有什麼國家利益所以台美之間在安全上是有很大的交集都面對要中國的擴張要挑戰以規則為基礎的國際秩序第三個我還想很重要就是我們的現實的利益在於經濟繁榮他們帶來人民的福祉這個如果找出交集啊"},{"start":705.12,"end":716.776,"text":"那利益一致 自然關係就很好可是人的關係不是只有利益就像我們彼此之間的關係我們講 如果說你愛不愛一個人是愛情"},{"start":719.541,"end":738.353,"text":"愛情啊很重要麵包也很重要因為你要吃得飽我們才能夠長期立志所以台美的關係要有愛情也要有麵包愛情就是理念相近這一個就是建立在民主法制的基礎另外一個就是我們利益一致那利益是要我們主動去找出跟美國一致的利益嘛"},{"start":739.053,"end":754.496,"text":"所以我們在談很多問題的時候一定要兩面都談要有同理心要換位思考去找出台美之間共同的利益然後堅持在我們共同的價值觀之上但是照我來看美國都是利益啊因為他需要台灣PD的國防預算啊其實他有他的長年的自由主義價值觀價值觀是很重要的"},{"start":763.157,"end":786.007,"text":"比如說美國的參眾兩院其實美國現在不是川普總統一個人決定外交政策是各種利害關係的競爭對外交政策的決定所以這個時候你看有些訊號感覺上有一點好像不一致可是如果你跑好地去把它分析其實台美的關係是好的那我們還要更好那我們要避免它不好"},{"start":786.997,"end":813.355,"text":"那因為中國是一個崛起的這個霸權他挑戰現有秩序那也挑戰到台灣也挑戰到美國啊所以我們怎麼樣跟美國有一個總和外交跟三鏈戰略就是在價值外交同盟外交跟經濟外交跟他鏈結在一起那符合彼此的利益這樣子外交關係就會很好好啦時間到了我還是期許外交部更加努力和美國建立更好的外交關係好我們會來努力"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":627,"blocks":[["林委員憶君：（11時42分）謝謝主席。有請經貿談判辦公室執秘和經濟部次長。"],["主席：請經貿辦，還有經濟部次長就備詢台。"],["林委員憶君：這個月初也就是10月3日，有媒體報導台美關稅談判進入深水區，在五輪的磋商中，台灣數度向美國提出避免雙重課稅協定，行政院副院長鄭麗君在月初也在記者會上面說明，第五輪的磋商，台美共構的產業聚落有譜了，但因台灣的模式與日韓、歐盟還有直接投資美國不同，問題是第五輪的磋商雖已落幕了，但台美雙方供應鏈有關台灣聚落模式的合作，還有最重要的232條款調查，都涉及到台灣最重要的護國神山與半導體存活兩大議題，現在有共識了嗎？"],["徐執行秘書崇欽：跟委員報告，現在台美雙方仍在持續密切聯繫當中，在談包括半導體產業在內的供應鏈合作方案。"],["林委員憶君：所以到現在還沒有談好？"],["徐執行秘書崇欽：是。有關台灣模式的部分，我方是在根留台灣、布局全球的總體戰略底下提出台灣的模式。包括：第一個是由企業自主規劃到美國進行產業投資；第二個由政府整合民間投資布局，增加對業者的金融支持；第三個透過台美政府G2G的合作，來為我國企業打造有利的產業環境。"],["林委員憶君：所以現在談判辦公室說：副院長提到的台灣聚落模式這個方案是有確定，但最新的談判進度是美國到底有沒有正面回復台灣提出的方案呢？"],["徐執行秘書崇欽：美方對我們的提案是感興趣的，也就是美方對我方提出的台灣模式是有高度興趣的，台灣也還在就供應鏈的合作方案跟美國商務部持續磋商中。"],["林委員憶君：我再請問一下，台灣聚落的模式真的可以為台灣創造出有別於日韓，超過數千億美元的投資新路嗎？要如何創造呢？"],["徐執行秘書崇欽：是，向委員報告，關於台灣的模式，它的緣由一開始是因為我們台灣科學園區的經營模式是全球獨有，再加上台灣有許多的產業園區、工業區，其他國家難以複製這樣的園區規劃、籌設，還有經營模式。我國願意跟美國透過政府跟政府的合作，來創造有利產業聚落形成的環境，這樣也可以降低我國企業去單打獨鬥的這個成本跟風險，所以我們是導入過去產業聚落以及科學園區的經驗，在這個談判裡面，根留台灣還是我們談判的最高指導原則。我們高科技產業的垂直供應鏈，必須依照根留台灣的原則來做全球布局，而不是將產業外移。"],["林委員憶君：今天我為什麼要提出這樣的疑問和擔憂，是因為有學者對目前台灣聚落這整個模式，非常憂心的指出：台積電在台灣能夠高效的運作，靠的是緊密的聚落，上、中、下游的供應鏈，從設備、材料商，還有客戶聚落的集中，才能在機器故障的時候，馬上、隨時的支援；但問題是，美國土地範圍非常大，產業環境分散，根本沒有辦法在24小時內馬上隨時配合，經營風險比在台灣其實是高出許多。另外，美國的勞動制度對工時其實他們要求非常非常的嚴格，台灣常見的責任制加班，在美國可能會變成是強迫勞動，這樣會不會增加台商未來到美國投資所帶來的訴訟成本？還有另外一個挑戰，就是投資規模的落差，美方期望台灣在美建立50%的產能，估計大約要5千億美元的投資，但台積電目前承諾投資只有1,650億美元，雙方差距非常大，即便建立了產業聚落，如何才能達到美方滿意的規模？不要到時候又犧牲了半導體，然後讓台灣的產業被迫外移，讓專業的人才外流。請問經濟部怎麼樣看待這個擔憂和意見呢？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，台灣的科學園區或是產業園區發展的經驗，它是一個群聚也是供應鏈大家合作的結果。現在台積電已經宣布1,650億的投資案，未來它會有6個晶圓廠在美國，也就是說台積電相關的供應鏈必須要在旁邊服務台積電的一些運作，這個也是我們台灣科學園區成功的經驗，所以未來可能會面臨到委員剛剛提到的這些問題，包括勞動力的問題或是美國相關的一些稅的問題，這些都是我們在跟美方談判的過程裡面，希望能夠政府對政府提供一些行政協助的部分，我想美方他們也有把這個部分列入考量。"],["林委員憶君：希望千萬不要發生台灣產業和人才被迫到美國發展，一定會衝擊到台灣的就業市場和經濟發展，希望我們還是要以台灣的利益為優先考量，好不好？"],["何次長晉滄：當然。"],["林委員憶君：請執秘先回座。因為本席比較關心的是台美關稅中，有關提高藥品關稅對我國的影響，我想請教經濟部次長，美國10月1日開始針對品牌和專利的藥品徵收100%的關稅，藥品公司在美國設廠，包括已經動工，還有正在施工的這些製藥廠才可以免除關稅。次長知不知道美國其實是我國西藥製劑的最大的出口國？因為在2024年的生技產業白皮書上面顯示，2023年從台灣出口到美國的藥品金額就高達新台幣185億。請問次長，就經濟部的了解和掌握，台灣的藥品是否會因為這樣被課徵高關稅，而失去了整個競爭的優勢？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，這個部分美方都還在調查當中，他們到底會課徵多少稅率，我們要看美國那邊評估的結果如何，再來跟國人做報告。"],["林委員憶君：我認為政府應該為每年出口美國上百億的國產西藥開始尋求外銷市場。像國產學名藥這些外銷藥品，可以協助本土廠商轉銷東南亞、新南向的國家，或是一些歐洲國家，以轉移市場。還有烏俄戰爭之後，全球也發現到一個很嚴重的問題，就是原料的供應問題，所以現在各國都在積極發展本土學名藥的產業。我們希望這一次政府的政策可以來扶植國內學名藥的發展。請問次長，就這方面對國內藥廠所帶來的衝擊會有影響嗎？你們了解嗎？有沒有研議怎麼樣的措施？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，這次我們在韌性特別預算裡面，經濟部的部分大概編列了460億，會協助這些受衝擊的產業提升競爭力，然後分散市場；我們當然也會協助國內的生技醫藥等產業，不管是往東南亞或是東北亞、日本或是歐洲地區去做一些展會，還有媒合會方面的活動。"],["林委員憶君：還有一點比較重要的，就是藥證的取得時間有沒有考量鬆綁相關的法規，以協助藥界度過台美關稅貿易戰的這個難關？可以跟衛福部共同研議討論嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：是，就法規的部分，我們會協助國內的產業來做舉證。"],["林委員憶君：謝謝。次長請回座。有請外交部林佳龍部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["林委員憶君：部長好。自從川普上任之後喊出美國再次偉大的口號，核心戰略就是美國製造、美國利益優先，本席也注意到美國媒體紐約時報在8月美台關係緊張的時候，曾標題有指出美國對台灣出口的半導體徵收了破壞性關稅的可能性，對台灣來說，更大的威脅都是逼近的，這是否也表示台美的關係根本不是史上最好的，因為紐約時報認為現在關係是異常的緊張！請問部長有沒有覺得美國對台灣關係的態度非常的奇怪？一方面說要保護台灣，但是又要台灣拼命編列國防預算，去跟美國買武器；另一方面又希望台灣把經濟命脈的產業全部移到美國，讓人感覺台灣無形中好像都要被美國掏空了。請問部長，你認為美國對台灣真正的態度、用意到底是什麼？美國說台灣是他們的好朋友，到底是真心的？虛情的？還是假意的？本席認為，我國最需要的是美國對台政策的一致性，否則川普政府一方面在強調台灣戰略的重要性，一方面又對台灣徵收高關稅，而且還要我們把台灣最重要的產業──護國神山雙手奉上，這樣的作法，真的是讓我非常的擔憂。所以我想請教部長對這個有什麼看法？"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，如果從國際政治的本質，就是有實力才能有和平。台美關係好不好，我們要從台灣的國家利益跟美國國家利益以及之間的交集，分層次來看，去找出交集。比如台美之間有個最底層的，都是民主國家、都有民意、都有選舉，所以國民彼此互相的認同，包括我們對於民主自由人權的價值，這個是很深層、很重要的，並不純粹是現實的交易而已。這個是一層。第二就是安全，當一個國家沒有了安全，包括主權被併吞，那你就沒有什麼國家利益了。所以台美之間在安全上是有很大的交集，都面對到中國的擴張，要挑戰以規則為基礎的國際秩序；第三很重要的就是我們的現實利益，在於經濟繁榮能不能帶來人民的福祉，這部分如果找出交集，利益一致，自然關係就很好。可是人的關係不是只有利益，就像我們彼此之間的關係，我們講你愛不愛一個人是愛情，愛情很重要，麵包也很重要，因為你要吃得飽，我們才能夠長期利益一致。所以台美的關係要有愛情也要有麵包，愛情就是理念相近，這個是建立在民主法治的基礎上；另外一個就是我們利益一致，我們要主動去找出跟美國一致的利益。所以我們在談很多問題的時候，一定要兩面都談，要有同理心，要換位思考，找出台美之間共同利益，然後堅持在我們共同的價值觀之上。"],["林委員憶君：但是照我來看，美國都是利益啊！因為它需要台灣的軍事國防預算去買武器，我們的國防預算都編得那麼高……"],["林部長佳龍：美國的外交政策不完全建立在利益，其實它有它長年的自由主義，價值觀是很重要的。比如美國有參眾兩院，其實美國現在不是川普總統一個人決定外交政策，是各種利害關係的競爭，對外交政策的決定。所以有時候看到有些訊號感覺上好像有一點不一致，可是如果好好的去分析，其實台美關係是好的，但我們還要更好，也要避免它不好。因為中國是一個崛起的霸權，他們挑戰現有秩序，他們挑戰到台灣，也挑戰到美國。所以我們怎麼樣跟美國有一個總合外交跟三鏈戰略，就是在價值外交、同盟外交、經濟外交上跟他們鏈結在一起，符合彼此的利益，這樣外交關係就會很好。"],["林委員憶君：時間到了，我還是期許外交部更加努力，和美國建立更好的外交關係。"],["林部長佳龍：我們會來努力。"],["林委員憶君：謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請吳思瑤、吳思瑤，吳思瑤委員不在。","今天登記質詢的委員除不在場者外，均已發言完畢，報告及詢答結束。","本日會議有王定宇委員、沈伯洋委員、楊瓊瓔委員、林倩綺委員提出書面質詢，請列入紀錄，並刊登公報。委員書面及口頭質詢未及答復部分，或要求補充資料者，請相關機關以書面於兩週內答復；委員有約定期限者，從其所定。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-7","speakers":["馬文君","陳永康","陳俊宇","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","葉元之","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","賴惠員","林德福","黃國昌","林憶君","王定宇","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","林倩綺"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「近期台美關係及關稅談判進展」，併請行政院經貿談判辦公室、經\n濟部、農業部列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148601_00006"}}}