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00:00:52,480\n那現在主要就是232條款跟這個供應鏈合作的部分持續在協商中那我是希望說再次提醒就是台美的經貿關係它不要成為產業間的零和的競逐因為我們當然是要替半導體跟高科技的產業來爭取我們最大利益但是也不可以犧牲農業跟這些弱勢的產業\n\n4\n00:00:53,681 --> 00:01:19,413\n我是希望說部長能夠在未來的你的這個總和外交裡面能不能夠包含以強帶弱的概念就是說我們很多優勢產業像是半導體的產業高科技產業這些產業鏈那我也看到這個部長很積極的出訪的時候都帶著這些產業鏈去參與那甚至是把一些經貿的這些工作也融合到外交的工作裡面但是這個部分有一點事情就是說\n\n5\n00:01:20,433 --> 00:01:42,694\n在這個傳統的產業上在農業上面我們看今年整體的經濟是往上走可是傳產農業他沒有跟著一起走那所以說我們與其一個產業走100步不如每一個產業都往前走一步所以這部分不知道部長有什麼樣的這個設計的藍圖對外交部的看法他的視野怎麼樣把我們以強帶弱想請教一下部長\n\n6\n00:01:44,781 --> 00:02:06,374\n報告委員陳玲玲講就是其實台美的這一次的關稅經貿談判可以用總和外交來做一個大戰略所以我們如果從那關稅好像就是零和可是如果涉及到投資那到底什麼產業是我們的優勢我們可以擴展\n\n7\n00:02:07,506 --> 00:02:17,632\n我們的供應鏈而不是說去移轉那另外就是美國他畢竟是最終端的消費市場以外他有很好的科技\n\n8\n00:02:18,672 --> 00:02:40,281\n人才跟資金所以我們怎麼樣為我所用這個也是打造所謂經濟日不落國除了價值外交以外當然是很重要理念相近可是經濟還有這些利益的一致這個就是台灣安全最大的保障也因此我們在談的時候我們的戰略目標是什麼不是陷入被動\n\n9\n00:02:42,002 --> 00:02:58,784\n好像他要一塊我們給五毛而是說更主動的去規劃那這裡面陳如玲提到了232條款他當然是基於國安然後企圖讓美國在工業化以外他也可以就是避免\n\n10\n00:02:59,884 --> 00:03:16,857\n在供應鏈上可能就是受制於了所以這個時候我們跟他可以扮演一個合作甚至合資的角色那因此從半導體產業我覺得從供應鏈的合作去看怎麼樣對台灣有利另外因為半導體產業又帶動最近這個人工智慧\n\n11\n00:03:17,737 --> 00:03:39,571\n包括BOOST是AICHIPS、AISERVER、AIDATACENTER、AIROBOTICS甚至AIFACTORY這一個是台灣的強項比如以伺服器來講它是做我們AI計算必備的而台灣有最先進的技術跟我們量產的能力所以這個時候我們把美國當作一個市場也好\n\n12\n00:03:40,271 --> 00:03:47,338\n當作我們一個就是說避免我們因為出口而造成的貿易的逆差而可能會影響他們對我們的這些要求提高關稅\n\n13\n00:03:55,430 --> 00:04:18,743\n我們這個佈局到底是怎樣對台灣最有利我們應該有一個戰略的目標所以誠如委員提到的那我們也跟美國談你要做到這些那你必須讓台灣的企業能夠服務他們比如說所謂的科學園區或者所謂智慧科技園區那這個也不是說就能夠移過去因為涉及到法令\n\n14\n00:04:19,639 --> 00:04:42,634\n土地水電還有非常多的行政服務包括單一窗口我想委員很清楚所以我們是有know-how的這個know-how是值錢的我們可以跟他一起參與來投資嘛投資科學園區的開發這個也就是台美聯合艦隊其實我五月已經率電電工會還有八大工協會到了德州要打造所謂台灣Tower\n\n15\n00:04:43,414 --> 00:05:08,924\n作為teamofteams也就是在德州從我們現在電電工會的所謂電子七哥每一個都增加投資而且未來的三年啊幾乎是指數性的成長為什麼供不應求因為比如說stargate五千億美金他就需要我們的AIserver而且我們還不是試試賣AIserver或AIchipsAIdatacenter我們整個未來的營運我們如果能夠提供這個服務\n\n16\n00:05:11,587 --> 00:05:23,023\n那我們的關係甚至我們怎麼樣去變成一個jointventure合資的關係這才是把台灣跟美國的利益能夠綁在一起而且這個是對美國來講\n\n17\n00:05:30,475 --> 00:05:41,552\n美國優先但台灣也優先我覺得是國家戰略或總和外交是我自己是這半年多來雖然我不是在談判的第一線但是我都跟談判團隊密切的聯繫\n\n18\n00:05:44,130 --> 00:06:09,230\n谢谢部长这个你的这个外交的这个战略报告是很完整的我大概可以理解到说就是除了因应其实美国政府的这一个变化那我们也做好我们相对的这一些政策那过去就如同你刚刚提到的我们是讲价值但是现在价值之外我们还要加值加值的意思就是要让我们的利害是一致的\n\n19\n00:06:09,790 --> 00:06:37,873\n所以剛才你提到的說包含Server還有一些其他的這些高科技的產品我相信這些都是有注意的不過我也有注意到就是不管是在國內外很多我們跟這個外交部也好或者是國防部也好他們的相關的這些智庫他們主要辦的論壇都還是直接跟這一個半導體相關那我覺得這很好這是我國的充滿這個最國際的產業鏈裡面很重要的一環\n\n20\n00:06:38,553 --> 00:07:05,649\n但是我們台灣除了這些高科技產業還有傳統產業高度精密的機械園區這些機械的這些工業也是傳產的一些種性所以如果未來我們可以在這些智庫裡面也提到說除了這一個半導體是不可或缺之外我們的加工我們的這些傳產它同時也是在這個CP值也是非常高的那剛才提到的合資的這個部分那我們當然也是要鼓勵美國也來台灣\n\n21\n00:07:06,469 --> 00:07:24,830\n因为当然我们都知道说现在美方就是一直希望说我们把我们的这些相关的产业来移到美国去但是其实我们也必须要说服美国就是说在这个台湾台湾国内我们的国内实际上是有很多的产业它是CP值是高的它可以用更低的这一个\n\n22\n00:07:26,991 --> 00:07:52,620\n這個消耗來去達到更高的產值我想這部分儘管說我們當然知道現在的美國政府它的這個屬性可能跟過去的這個拜登政府不太一樣但我們還是要持續嘗試去努力所以部長想請教一下因為美方新版的這個國防戰略報告據傳啦據傳還沒有確定它是說本土跟西半球可能會成為首要要應對的層級\n\n23\n00:07:54,341 --> 00:08:10,454\n那這個部分我還是希望說部長在這樣的戰略重心他們萬一這樣調整的話那我們的跟美方之間的協調那就很重要了我覺得我們要強調一個根本就是說我們的安全他是不止他是依賴不只依賴一方的善意\n\n24\n00:08:10,834 --> 00:08:29,387\n所以我們剛剛講到總和外交裡面就是除了美國之外我們對歐洲對任何在印太有利害關係的國家我們都要加強對他們的這些之間的這些關聯性還有加強跟這些印太國家在印太有利害的不見得是身處在印太的國家比方說法國他雖然是在歐洲但是他其實在\n\n25\n00:08:30,909 --> 00:08:41,565\n這個太平洋上都甚至有他的屬地在所以他也是印太國家那所以這個部分我是想要請教一下部長你的戰略在針對萬一他們的重心做調整之外我們要怎麼辦\n\n26\n00:08:42,977 --> 00:09:01,837\n報告委員其實經過這快一年來的整個發展我們已經比較清楚川普政府他的一個不管是安全或者是國防的戰略因為他現在有兩個最重要的報告我們都密切注意一個是美國的這個整個國家安全的戰略另外一個是國防\n\n27\n00:09:03,899 --> 00:09:18,534\n方面的戰略也陸續有透露一些方向所以以您提到的美國國防戰略的報告來講我想印太還是最重要那台灣是一個不可或缺的夥伴那這個時候怎麼樣來加強因為中國的威權擴張要\n\n28\n00:09:20,248 --> 00:09:31,620\n跨過第一島鏈去太平洋要去抗衡美國所以我們的角色已經不是說兩岸關係我們是相看在整個印太第一島鏈所以從雙邊到小多邊所謂網格狀的安全的架構小多邊\n\n29\n00:09:36,665 --> 00:09:51,550\n小多邊比如說我們當然除了跟美國有台灣關係法我們跟周邊國家不管日本菲律賓澳紐這個都在交織成各種我們想安全的韌性是不能太脆弱嘛我們都只靠台灣關係法跟電網一樣分散式電網跟電網一樣分散式電網一個latestwork就是一個比較\n\n30\n00:09:58,092 --> 00:10:21,040\n交疊在一起的這種所謂的小多邊關係比如說那美國也在建構美日韓啊美日飛啊那甚至就是說包括澳紐也都進來那台灣是不可或缺因為第一島鏈彼此相關只要中共飛機一起飛或者是說環台的時候那你可以想他的軍艦潛艇出入\n\n31\n00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:52,916\n第一島鏈就是宮古海峽跟巴士海峽嘛那一個在北邊日本一個在南邊菲律賓所以為什麼他們那麼重視這一個台海安全而且不能夠讓台海變成內海化都是基於他們國家利益所以我們要很瞭解美國的國家利益是什麼他的印太戰略為什麼他要把前沿部署能夠往前沿到關島包括對於日韓非這種串聯的各種演習很多那台灣也是不可或缺的一部分\n\n32\n00:10:53,676 --> 00:11:13,704\n謝謝部長部長我覺得今天你講的這個重點我最後做個總結就是小多邊這個概念我認為這是一個我們未來可以突破的這是操之在我們的那有些沒有辦法操之在我們自己的部分我們就盡量去影響但是操之在我們的小多邊這個部分我認為這是外交部跟我們的經濟部都可以一起來協助謝謝謝謝我們休息五分鐘\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t550\t你好 我們請部長\n15607\t29502\t請部長好部長好部長我從書面報告裡面有指出說鄭麗君副院長他跟經貿談判辦公室的總談判代表9月底那已經跟商務部有進行了五輪的這個實體的磋商\n30763\t52480\t那現在主要就是232條款跟這個供應鏈合作的部分持續在協商中那我是希望說再次提醒就是台美的經貿關係它不要成為產業間的零和的競逐因為我們當然是要替半導體跟高科技的產業來爭取我們最大利益但是也不可以犧牲農業跟這些弱勢的產業\n53681\t79413\t我是希望說部長能夠在未來的你的這個總和外交裡面能不能夠包含以強帶弱的概念就是說我們很多優勢產業像是半導體的產業高科技產業這些產業鏈那我也看到這個部長很積極的出訪的時候都帶著這些產業鏈去參與那甚至是把一些經貿的這些工作也融合到外交的工作裡面但是這個部分有一點事情就是說\n80433\t102694\t在這個傳統的產業上在農業上面我們看今年整體的經濟是往上走可是傳產農業他沒有跟著一起走那所以說我們與其一個產業走100步不如每一個產業都往前走一步所以這部分不知道部長有什麼樣的這個設計的藍圖對外交部的看法他的視野怎麼樣把我們以強帶弱想請教一下部長\n104781\t126374\t報告委員陳玲玲講就是其實台美的這一次的關稅經貿談判可以用總和外交來做一個大戰略所以我們如果從那關稅好像就是零和可是如果涉及到投資那到底什麼產業是我們的優勢我們可以擴展\n127506\t137632\t我們的供應鏈而不是說去移轉那另外就是美國他畢竟是最終端的消費市場以外他有很好的科技\n138672\t160281\t人才跟資金所以我們怎麼樣為我所用這個也是打造所謂經濟日不落國除了價值外交以外當然是很重要理念相近可是經濟還有這些利益的一致這個就是台灣安全最大的保障也因此我們在談的時候我們的戰略目標是什麼不是陷入被動\n162002\t178784\t好像他要一塊我們給五毛而是說更主動的去規劃那這裡面陳如玲提到了232條款他當然是基於國安然後企圖讓美國在工業化以外他也可以就是避免\n179884\t196857\t在供應鏈上可能就是受制於了所以這個時候我們跟他可以扮演一個合作甚至合資的角色那因此從半導體產業我覺得從供應鏈的合作去看怎麼樣對台灣有利另外因為半導體產業又帶動最近這個人工智慧\n197737\t219571\t包括BOOST是AI CHIPS、AI SERVER、AI DATA CENTER、AI ROBOTICS甚至AI FACTORY這一個是台灣的強項比如以伺服器來講它是做我們AI計算必備的而台灣有最先進的技術跟我們量產的能力所以這個時候我們把美國當作一個市場也好\n220271\t227338\t當作我們一個就是說避免我們因為出口而造成的貿易的逆差而可能會影響他們對我們的這些要求提高關稅\n235430\t258743\t我們這個佈局到底是怎樣對台灣最有利我們應該有一個戰略的目標所以誠如委員提到的那我們也跟美國談你要做到這些那你必須讓台灣的企業能夠服務他們比如說所謂的科學園區或者所謂智慧科技園區那這個也不是說就能夠移過去因為涉及到法令\n259639\t282634\t土地 水電還有非常多的行政服務包括單一窗口我想委員很清楚所以我們是有know-how的這個know-how是值錢的我們可以跟他一起參與來投資嘛投資科學園區的開發這個也就是台美聯合艦隊其實我五月已經率電電工會還有八大工協會到了德州要打造所謂台灣Tower\n283414\t308924\t作為team of teams也就是在德州從我們現在電電工會的所謂電子七哥每一個都增加投資而且未來的三年啊幾乎是指數性的成長為什麼 供不應求因為比如說stargate五千億美金他就需要我們的AI server而且我們還不是試試賣AI server或AI chipsAI data center我們整個未來的營運我們如果能夠提供這個服務\n311587\t323023\t那我們的關係 甚至我們怎麼樣去變成一個 joint venture 合資的關係這才是把台灣跟美國的利益能夠綁在一起而且這個是對美國來講\n330475\t341552\t美國優先但台灣也優先我覺得是國家戰略或總和外交是我自己是這半年多來雖然我不是在談判的第一線但是我都跟談判團隊密切的聯繫\n344130\t369230\t谢谢部长这个你的这个外交的这个战略报告是很完整的我大概可以理解到说就是除了因应其实美国政府的这一个变化那我们也做好我们相对的这一些政策那过去就如同你刚刚提到的我们是讲价值但是现在价值之外我们还要加值加值的意思就是要让我们的利害是一致的\n369790\t397873\t所以剛才你提到的說包含Server還有一些其他的這些高科技的產品我相信這些都是有注意的不過我也有注意到就是不管是在國內外很多我們跟這個外交部也好或者是國防部也好他們的相關的這些智庫他們主要辦的論壇都還是直接跟這一個半導體相關那我覺得這很好這是我國的充滿這個最國際的產業鏈裡面很重要的一環\n398553\t425649\t但是我們台灣除了這些高科技產業還有傳統產業高度精密的機械園區這些機械的這些工業也是傳產的一些種性所以如果未來我們可以在這些智庫裡面也提到說除了這一個半導體是不可或缺之外我們的加工我們的這些傳產它同時也是在這個CP值也是非常高的那剛才提到的合資的這個部分那我們當然也是要鼓勵美國也來台灣\n426469\t444830\t因为当然我们都知道说现在美方就是一直希望说我们把我们的这些相关的产业来移到美国去但是其实我们也必须要说服美国就是说在这个台湾台湾国内我们的国内实际上是有很多的产业它是CP值是高的它可以用更低的这一个\n446991\t472620\t這個消耗來去達到更高的產值我想這部分儘管說我們當然知道現在的美國政府它的這個屬性可能跟過去的這個拜登政府不太一樣但我們還是要持續嘗試去努力所以部長想請教一下因為美方新版的這個國防戰略報告據傳啦據傳還沒有確定它是說本土跟西半球可能會成為首要要應對的層級\n474341\t490454\t那這個部分我還是希望說部長在這樣的戰略重心他們萬一這樣調整的話那我們的跟美方之間的協調那就很重要了我覺得我們要強調一個根本就是說我們的安全他是不止他是依賴不只依賴一方的善意\n490834\t509387\t所以我們剛剛講到總和外交裡面就是除了美國之外我們對歐洲對任何在印太有利害關係的國家我們都要加強對他們的這些之間的這些關聯性還有加強跟這些印太國家在印太有利害的不見得是身處在印太的國家比方說法國他雖然是在歐洲但是他其實在\n510909\t521565\t這個太平洋上都甚至有他的屬地在所以他也是印太國家那所以這個部分我是想要請教一下部長你的戰略在針對萬一他們的重心做調整之外我們要怎麼辦\n522977\t541837\t報告委員其實經過這快一年來的整個發展我們已經比較清楚川普政府他的一個不管是安全或者是國防的戰略因為他現在有兩個最重要的報告我們都密切注意一個是美國的這個整個國家安全的戰略另外一個是國防\n543899\t558534\t方面的戰略也陸續有透露一些方向所以以您提到的美國國防戰略的報告來講我想印太還是最重要那台灣是一個不可或缺的夥伴那這個時候怎麼樣來加強因為中國的威權擴張要\n560248\t571620\t跨過第一島鏈去太平洋要去抗衡美國所以我們的角色已經不是說兩岸關係我們是相看在整個印太第一島鏈所以從雙邊到小多邊所謂網格狀的安全的架構小多邊\n576665\t591550\t小多邊 比如說我們當然除了跟美國有台灣關係法我們跟周邊國家不管日本菲律賓澳紐這個都在交織成各種我們想安全的韌性是不能太脆弱嘛我們都只靠台灣關係法跟電網一樣分散式電網跟電網一樣分散式電網一個latest work就是一個比較\n598092\t621040\t交疊在一起的這種所謂的小多邊關係比如說那美國也在建構美日韓啊美日飛啊那甚至就是說包括澳紐也都進來那台灣是不可或缺因為第一島鏈彼此相關只要中共飛機一起飛或者是說環台的時候那你可以想他的軍艦潛艇出入\n624520\t652916\t第一島鏈就是宮古海峽跟巴士海峽嘛那一個在北邊日本一個在南邊菲律賓所以為什麼他們那麼重視這一個台海安全而且不能夠讓台海變成內海化都是基於他們國家利益所以我們要很瞭解美國的國家利益是什麼他的印太戰略為什麼他要把前沿部署能夠往前沿到關島包括對於日韓非這種串聯的各種演習很多那台灣也是不可或缺的一部分\n653676\t673704\t謝謝部長部長我覺得今天你講的這個重點我最後做個總結就是小多邊這個概念我認為這是一個我們未來可以突破的這是操之在我們的那有些沒有辦法操之在我們自己的部分我們就盡量去影響但是操之在我們的小多邊這個部分我認為這是外交部跟我們的經濟部都可以一起來協助謝謝謝謝我們休息五分鐘\n","txt":"你好 我們請部長\n請部長好部長好部長我從書面報告裡面有指出說鄭麗君副院長他跟經貿談判辦公室的總談判代表9月底那已經跟商務部有進行了五輪的這個實體的磋商\n那現在主要就是232條款跟這個供應鏈合作的部分持續在協商中那我是希望說再次提醒就是台美的經貿關係它不要成為產業間的零和的競逐因為我們當然是要替半導體跟高科技的產業來爭取我們最大利益但是也不可以犧牲農業跟這些弱勢的產業\n我是希望說部長能夠在未來的你的這個總和外交裡面能不能夠包含以強帶弱的概念就是說我們很多優勢產業像是半導體的產業高科技產業這些產業鏈那我也看到這個部長很積極的出訪的時候都帶著這些產業鏈去參與那甚至是把一些經貿的這些工作也融合到外交的工作裡面但是這個部分有一點事情就是說\n在這個傳統的產業上在農業上面我們看今年整體的經濟是往上走可是傳產農業他沒有跟著一起走那所以說我們與其一個產業走100步不如每一個產業都往前走一步所以這部分不知道部長有什麼樣的這個設計的藍圖對外交部的看法他的視野怎麼樣把我們以強帶弱想請教一下部長\n報告委員陳玲玲講就是其實台美的這一次的關稅經貿談判可以用總和外交來做一個大戰略所以我們如果從那關稅好像就是零和可是如果涉及到投資那到底什麼產業是我們的優勢我們可以擴展\n我們的供應鏈而不是說去移轉那另外就是美國他畢竟是最終端的消費市場以外他有很好的科技\n人才跟資金所以我們怎麼樣為我所用這個也是打造所謂經濟日不落國除了價值外交以外當然是很重要理念相近可是經濟還有這些利益的一致這個就是台灣安全最大的保障也因此我們在談的時候我們的戰略目標是什麼不是陷入被動\n好像他要一塊我們給五毛而是說更主動的去規劃那這裡面陳如玲提到了232條款他當然是基於國安然後企圖讓美國在工業化以外他也可以就是避免\n在供應鏈上可能就是受制於了所以這個時候我們跟他可以扮演一個合作甚至合資的角色那因此從半導體產業我覺得從供應鏈的合作去看怎麼樣對台灣有利另外因為半導體產業又帶動最近這個人工智慧\n包括BOOST是AI CHIPS、AI SERVER、AI DATA CENTER、AI ROBOTICS甚至AI FACTORY這一個是台灣的強項比如以伺服器來講它是做我們AI計算必備的而台灣有最先進的技術跟我們量產的能力所以這個時候我們把美國當作一個市場也好\n當作我們一個就是說避免我們因為出口而造成的貿易的逆差而可能會影響他們對我們的這些要求提高關稅\n我們這個佈局到底是怎樣對台灣最有利我們應該有一個戰略的目標所以誠如委員提到的那我們也跟美國談你要做到這些那你必須讓台灣的企業能夠服務他們比如說所謂的科學園區或者所謂智慧科技園區那這個也不是說就能夠移過去因為涉及到法令\n土地 水電還有非常多的行政服務包括單一窗口我想委員很清楚所以我們是有know-how的這個know-how是值錢的我們可以跟他一起參與來投資嘛投資科學園區的開發這個也就是台美聯合艦隊其實我五月已經率電電工會還有八大工協會到了德州要打造所謂台灣Tower\n作為team of teams也就是在德州從我們現在電電工會的所謂電子七哥每一個都增加投資而且未來的三年啊幾乎是指數性的成長為什麼 供不應求因為比如說stargate五千億美金他就需要我們的AI server而且我們還不是試試賣AI server或AI chipsAI data center我們整個未來的營運我們如果能夠提供這個服務\n那我們的關係 甚至我們怎麼樣去變成一個 joint venture 合資的關係這才是把台灣跟美國的利益能夠綁在一起而且這個是對美國來講\n美國優先但台灣也優先我覺得是國家戰略或總和外交是我自己是這半年多來雖然我不是在談判的第一線但是我都跟談判團隊密切的聯繫\n谢谢部长这个你的这个外交的这个战略报告是很完整的我大概可以理解到说就是除了因应其实美国政府的这一个变化那我们也做好我们相对的这一些政策那过去就如同你刚刚提到的我们是讲价值但是现在价值之外我们还要加值加值的意思就是要让我们的利害是一致的\n所以剛才你提到的說包含Server還有一些其他的這些高科技的產品我相信這些都是有注意的不過我也有注意到就是不管是在國內外很多我們跟這個外交部也好或者是國防部也好他們的相關的這些智庫他們主要辦的論壇都還是直接跟這一個半導體相關那我覺得這很好這是我國的充滿這個最國際的產業鏈裡面很重要的一環\n但是我們台灣除了這些高科技產業還有傳統產業高度精密的機械園區這些機械的這些工業也是傳產的一些種性所以如果未來我們可以在這些智庫裡面也提到說除了這一個半導體是不可或缺之外我們的加工我們的這些傳產它同時也是在這個CP值也是非常高的那剛才提到的合資的這個部分那我們當然也是要鼓勵美國也來台灣\n因为当然我们都知道说现在美方就是一直希望说我们把我们的这些相关的产业来移到美国去但是其实我们也必须要说服美国就是说在这个台湾台湾国内我们的国内实际上是有很多的产业它是CP值是高的它可以用更低的这一个\n這個消耗來去達到更高的產值我想這部分儘管說我們當然知道現在的美國政府它的這個屬性可能跟過去的這個拜登政府不太一樣但我們還是要持續嘗試去努力所以部長想請教一下因為美方新版的這個國防戰略報告據傳啦據傳還沒有確定它是說本土跟西半球可能會成為首要要應對的層級\n那這個部分我還是希望說部長在這樣的戰略重心他們萬一這樣調整的話那我們的跟美方之間的協調那就很重要了我覺得我們要強調一個根本就是說我們的安全他是不止他是依賴不只依賴一方的善意\n所以我們剛剛講到總和外交裡面就是除了美國之外我們對歐洲對任何在印太有利害關係的國家我們都要加強對他們的這些之間的這些關聯性還有加強跟這些印太國家在印太有利害的不見得是身處在印太的國家比方說法國他雖然是在歐洲但是他其實在\n這個太平洋上都甚至有他的屬地在所以他也是印太國家那所以這個部分我是想要請教一下部長你的戰略在針對萬一他們的重心做調整之外我們要怎麼辦\n報告委員其實經過這快一年來的整個發展我們已經比較清楚川普政府他的一個不管是安全或者是國防的戰略因為他現在有兩個最重要的報告我們都密切注意一個是美國的這個整個國家安全的戰略另外一個是國防\n方面的戰略也陸續有透露一些方向所以以您提到的美國國防戰略的報告來講我想印太還是最重要那台灣是一個不可或缺的夥伴那這個時候怎麼樣來加強因為中國的威權擴張要\n跨過第一島鏈去太平洋要去抗衡美國所以我們的角色已經不是說兩岸關係我們是相看在整個印太第一島鏈所以從雙邊到小多邊所謂網格狀的安全的架構小多邊\n小多邊 比如說我們當然除了跟美國有台灣關係法我們跟周邊國家不管日本菲律賓澳紐這個都在交織成各種我們想安全的韌性是不能太脆弱嘛我們都只靠台灣關係法跟電網一樣分散式電網跟電網一樣分散式電網一個latest work就是一個比較\n交疊在一起的這種所謂的小多邊關係比如說那美國也在建構美日韓啊美日飛啊那甚至就是說包括澳紐也都進來那台灣是不可或缺因為第一島鏈彼此相關只要中共飛機一起飛或者是說環台的時候那你可以想他的軍艦潛艇出入\n第一島鏈就是宮古海峽跟巴士海峽嘛那一個在北邊日本一個在南邊菲律賓所以為什麼他們那麼重視這一個台海安全而且不能夠讓台海變成內海化都是基於他們國家利益所以我們要很瞭解美國的國家利益是什麼他的印太戰略為什麼他要把前沿部署能夠往前沿到關島包括對於日韓非這種串聯的各種演習很多那台灣也是不可或缺的一部分\n謝謝部長部長我覺得今天你講的這個重點我最後做個總結就是小多邊這個概念我認為這是一個我們未來可以突破的這是操之在我們的那有些沒有辦法操之在我們自己的部分我們就盡量去影響但是操之在我們的小多邊這個部分我認為這是外交部跟我們的經濟部都可以一起來協助謝謝謝謝我們休息五分鐘\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.550\n你好我們請部長\n\n00:15.607 --> 00:29.502\n請部長好部長好部長我從書面報告裡面有指出說鄭麗君副院長他跟經貿談判辦公室的總談判代表9月底那已經跟商務部有進行了五輪的這個實體的磋商\n\n00:30.763 --> 00:52.480\n那現在主要就是232條款跟這個供應鏈合作的部分持續在協商中那我是希望說再次提醒就是台美的經貿關係它不要成為產業間的零和的競逐因為我們當然是要替半導體跟高科技的產業來爭取我們最大利益但是也不可以犧牲農業跟這些弱勢的產業\n\n00:53.681 --> 01:19.413\n我是希望說部長能夠在未來的你的這個總和外交裡面能不能夠包含以強帶弱的概念就是說我們很多優勢產業像是半導體的產業高科技產業這些產業鏈那我也看到這個部長很積極的出訪的時候都帶著這些產業鏈去參與那甚至是把一些經貿的這些工作也融合到外交的工作裡面但是這個部分有一點事情就是說\n\n01:20.433 --> 01:42.694\n在這個傳統的產業上在農業上面我們看今年整體的經濟是往上走可是傳產農業他沒有跟著一起走那所以說我們與其一個產業走100步不如每一個產業都往前走一步所以這部分不知道部長有什麼樣的這個設計的藍圖對外交部的看法他的視野怎麼樣把我們以強帶弱想請教一下部長\n\n01:44.781 --> 02:06.374\n報告委員陳玲玲講就是其實台美的這一次的關稅經貿談判可以用總和外交來做一個大戰略所以我們如果從那關稅好像就是零和可是如果涉及到投資那到底什麼產業是我們的優勢我們可以擴展\n\n02:07.506 --> 02:17.632\n我們的供應鏈而不是說去移轉那另外就是美國他畢竟是最終端的消費市場以外他有很好的科技\n\n02:18.672 --> 02:40.281\n人才跟資金所以我們怎麼樣為我所用這個也是打造所謂經濟日不落國除了價值外交以外當然是很重要理念相近可是經濟還有這些利益的一致這個就是台灣安全最大的保障也因此我們在談的時候我們的戰略目標是什麼不是陷入被動\n\n02:42.002 --> 02:58.784\n好像他要一塊我們給五毛而是說更主動的去規劃那這裡面陳如玲提到了232條款他當然是基於國安然後企圖讓美國在工業化以外他也可以就是避免\n\n02:59.884 --> 03:16.857\n在供應鏈上可能就是受制於了所以這個時候我們跟他可以扮演一個合作甚至合資的角色那因此從半導體產業我覺得從供應鏈的合作去看怎麼樣對台灣有利另外因為半導體產業又帶動最近這個人工智慧\n\n03:17.737 --> 03:39.571\n包括BOOST是AICHIPS、AISERVER、AIDATACENTER、AIROBOTICS甚至AIFACTORY這一個是台灣的強項比如以伺服器來講它是做我們AI計算必備的而台灣有最先進的技術跟我們量產的能力所以這個時候我們把美國當作一個市場也好\n\n03:40.271 --> 03:47.338\n當作我們一個就是說避免我們因為出口而造成的貿易的逆差而可能會影響他們對我們的這些要求提高關稅\n\n03:55.430 --> 04:18.743\n我們這個佈局到底是怎樣對台灣最有利我們應該有一個戰略的目標所以誠如委員提到的那我們也跟美國談你要做到這些那你必須讓台灣的企業能夠服務他們比如說所謂的科學園區或者所謂智慧科技園區那這個也不是說就能夠移過去因為涉及到法令\n\n04:19.639 --> 04:42.634\n土地水電還有非常多的行政服務包括單一窗口我想委員很清楚所以我們是有know-how的這個know-how是值錢的我們可以跟他一起參與來投資嘛投資科學園區的開發這個也就是台美聯合艦隊其實我五月已經率電電工會還有八大工協會到了德州要打造所謂台灣Tower\n\n04:43.414 --> 05:08.924\n作為teamofteams也就是在德州從我們現在電電工會的所謂電子七哥每一個都增加投資而且未來的三年啊幾乎是指數性的成長為什麼供不應求因為比如說stargate五千億美金他就需要我們的AIserver而且我們還不是試試賣AIserver或AIchipsAIdatacenter我們整個未來的營運我們如果能夠提供這個服務\n\n05:11.587 --> 05:23.023\n那我們的關係甚至我們怎麼樣去變成一個jointventure合資的關係這才是把台灣跟美國的利益能夠綁在一起而且這個是對美國來講\n\n05:30.475 --> 05:41.552\n美國優先但台灣也優先我覺得是國家戰略或總和外交是我自己是這半年多來雖然我不是在談判的第一線但是我都跟談判團隊密切的聯繫\n\n05:44.130 --> 06:09.230\n谢谢部长这个你的这个外交的这个战略报告是很完整的我大概可以理解到说就是除了因应其实美国政府的这一个变化那我们也做好我们相对的这一些政策那过去就如同你刚刚提到的我们是讲价值但是现在价值之外我们还要加值加值的意思就是要让我们的利害是一致的\n\n06:09.790 --> 06:37.873\n所以剛才你提到的說包含Server還有一些其他的這些高科技的產品我相信這些都是有注意的不過我也有注意到就是不管是在國內外很多我們跟這個外交部也好或者是國防部也好他們的相關的這些智庫他們主要辦的論壇都還是直接跟這一個半導體相關那我覺得這很好這是我國的充滿這個最國際的產業鏈裡面很重要的一環\n\n06:38.553 --> 07:05.649\n但是我們台灣除了這些高科技產業還有傳統產業高度精密的機械園區這些機械的這些工業也是傳產的一些種性所以如果未來我們可以在這些智庫裡面也提到說除了這一個半導體是不可或缺之外我們的加工我們的這些傳產它同時也是在這個CP值也是非常高的那剛才提到的合資的這個部分那我們當然也是要鼓勵美國也來台灣\n\n07:06.469 --> 07:24.830\n因为当然我们都知道说现在美方就是一直希望说我们把我们的这些相关的产业来移到美国去但是其实我们也必须要说服美国就是说在这个台湾台湾国内我们的国内实际上是有很多的产业它是CP值是高的它可以用更低的这一个\n\n07:26.991 --> 07:52.620\n這個消耗來去達到更高的產值我想這部分儘管說我們當然知道現在的美國政府它的這個屬性可能跟過去的這個拜登政府不太一樣但我們還是要持續嘗試去努力所以部長想請教一下因為美方新版的這個國防戰略報告據傳啦據傳還沒有確定它是說本土跟西半球可能會成為首要要應對的層級\n\n07:54.341 --> 08:10.454\n那這個部分我還是希望說部長在這樣的戰略重心他們萬一這樣調整的話那我們的跟美方之間的協調那就很重要了我覺得我們要強調一個根本就是說我們的安全他是不止他是依賴不只依賴一方的善意\n\n08:10.834 --> 08:29.387\n所以我們剛剛講到總和外交裡面就是除了美國之外我們對歐洲對任何在印太有利害關係的國家我們都要加強對他們的這些之間的這些關聯性還有加強跟這些印太國家在印太有利害的不見得是身處在印太的國家比方說法國他雖然是在歐洲但是他其實在\n\n08:30.909 --> 08:41.565\n這個太平洋上都甚至有他的屬地在所以他也是印太國家那所以這個部分我是想要請教一下部長你的戰略在針對萬一他們的重心做調整之外我們要怎麼辦\n\n08:42.977 --> 09:01.837\n報告委員其實經過這快一年來的整個發展我們已經比較清楚川普政府他的一個不管是安全或者是國防的戰略因為他現在有兩個最重要的報告我們都密切注意一個是美國的這個整個國家安全的戰略另外一個是國防\n\n09:03.899 --> 09:18.534\n方面的戰略也陸續有透露一些方向所以以您提到的美國國防戰略的報告來講我想印太還是最重要那台灣是一個不可或缺的夥伴那這個時候怎麼樣來加強因為中國的威權擴張要\n\n09:20.248 --> 09:31.620\n跨過第一島鏈去太平洋要去抗衡美國所以我們的角色已經不是說兩岸關係我們是相看在整個印太第一島鏈所以從雙邊到小多邊所謂網格狀的安全的架構小多邊\n\n09:36.665 --> 09:51.550\n小多邊比如說我們當然除了跟美國有台灣關係法我們跟周邊國家不管日本菲律賓澳紐這個都在交織成各種我們想安全的韌性是不能太脆弱嘛我們都只靠台灣關係法跟電網一樣分散式電網跟電網一樣分散式電網一個latestwork就是一個比較\n\n09:58.092 --> 10:21.040\n交疊在一起的這種所謂的小多邊關係比如說那美國也在建構美日韓啊美日飛啊那甚至就是說包括澳紐也都進來那台灣是不可或缺因為第一島鏈彼此相關只要中共飛機一起飛或者是說環台的時候那你可以想他的軍艦潛艇出入\n\n10:24.520 --> 10:52.916\n第一島鏈就是宮古海峽跟巴士海峽嘛那一個在北邊日本一個在南邊菲律賓所以為什麼他們那麼重視這一個台海安全而且不能夠讓台海變成內海化都是基於他們國家利益所以我們要很瞭解美國的國家利益是什麼他的印太戰略為什麼他要把前沿部署能夠往前沿到關島包括對於日韓非這種串聯的各種演習很多那台灣也是不可或缺的一部分\n\n10:53.676 --> 11:13.704\n謝謝部長部長我覺得今天你講的這個重點我最後做個總結就是小多邊這個概念我認為這是一個我們未來可以突破的這是操之在我們的那有些沒有辦法操之在我們自己的部分我們就盡量去影響但是操之在我們的小多邊這個部分我認為這是外交部跟我們的經濟部都可以一起來協助謝謝謝謝我們休息五分鐘\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.55,"text":"你好 我們請部長"},{"start":15.607,"end":29.502,"text":"請部長好部長好部長我從書面報告裡面有指出說鄭麗君副院長他跟經貿談判辦公室的總談判代表9月底那已經跟商務部有進行了五輪的這個實體的磋商"},{"start":30.763,"end":52.48,"text":"那現在主要就是232條款跟這個供應鏈合作的部分持續在協商中那我是希望說再次提醒就是台美的經貿關係它不要成為產業間的零和的競逐因為我們當然是要替半導體跟高科技的產業來爭取我們最大利益但是也不可以犧牲農業跟這些弱勢的產業"},{"start":53.681,"end":79.413,"text":"我是希望說部長能夠在未來的你的這個總和外交裡面能不能夠包含以強帶弱的概念就是說我們很多優勢產業像是半導體的產業高科技產業這些產業鏈那我也看到這個部長很積極的出訪的時候都帶著這些產業鏈去參與那甚至是把一些經貿的這些工作也融合到外交的工作裡面但是這個部分有一點事情就是說"},{"start":80.433,"end":102.694,"text":"在這個傳統的產業上在農業上面我們看今年整體的經濟是往上走可是傳產農業他沒有跟著一起走那所以說我們與其一個產業走100步不如每一個產業都往前走一步所以這部分不知道部長有什麼樣的這個設計的藍圖對外交部的看法他的視野怎麼樣把我們以強帶弱想請教一下部長"},{"start":104.781,"end":126.374,"text":"報告委員陳玲玲講就是其實台美的這一次的關稅經貿談判可以用總和外交來做一個大戰略所以我們如果從那關稅好像就是零和可是如果涉及到投資那到底什麼產業是我們的優勢我們可以擴展"},{"start":127.506,"end":137.632,"text":"我們的供應鏈而不是說去移轉那另外就是美國他畢竟是最終端的消費市場以外他有很好的科技"},{"start":138.672,"end":160.281,"text":"人才跟資金所以我們怎麼樣為我所用這個也是打造所謂經濟日不落國除了價值外交以外當然是很重要理念相近可是經濟還有這些利益的一致這個就是台灣安全最大的保障也因此我們在談的時候我們的戰略目標是什麼不是陷入被動"},{"start":162.002,"end":178.784,"text":"好像他要一塊我們給五毛而是說更主動的去規劃那這裡面陳如玲提到了232條款他當然是基於國安然後企圖讓美國在工業化以外他也可以就是避免"},{"start":179.884,"end":196.857,"text":"在供應鏈上可能就是受制於了所以這個時候我們跟他可以扮演一個合作甚至合資的角色那因此從半導體產業我覺得從供應鏈的合作去看怎麼樣對台灣有利另外因為半導體產業又帶動最近這個人工智慧"},{"start":197.737,"end":219.571,"text":"包括BOOST是AI CHIPS、AI SERVER、AI DATA CENTER、AI ROBOTICS甚至AI FACTORY這一個是台灣的強項比如以伺服器來講它是做我們AI計算必備的而台灣有最先進的技術跟我們量產的能力所以這個時候我們把美國當作一個市場也好"},{"start":220.271,"end":227.338,"text":"當作我們一個就是說避免我們因為出口而造成的貿易的逆差而可能會影響他們對我們的這些要求提高關稅"},{"start":235.43,"end":258.743,"text":"我們這個佈局到底是怎樣對台灣最有利我們應該有一個戰略的目標所以誠如委員提到的那我們也跟美國談你要做到這些那你必須讓台灣的企業能夠服務他們比如說所謂的科學園區或者所謂智慧科技園區那這個也不是說就能夠移過去因為涉及到法令"},{"start":259.639,"end":282.634,"text":"土地 水電還有非常多的行政服務包括單一窗口我想委員很清楚所以我們是有know-how的這個know-how是值錢的我們可以跟他一起參與來投資嘛投資科學園區的開發這個也就是台美聯合艦隊其實我五月已經率電電工會還有八大工協會到了德州要打造所謂台灣Tower"},{"start":283.414,"end":308.924,"text":"作為team of teams也就是在德州從我們現在電電工會的所謂電子七哥每一個都增加投資而且未來的三年啊幾乎是指數性的成長為什麼 供不應求因為比如說stargate五千億美金他就需要我們的AI server而且我們還不是試試賣AI server或AI chipsAI data center我們整個未來的營運我們如果能夠提供這個服務"},{"start":311.587,"end":323.023,"text":"那我們的關係 甚至我們怎麼樣去變成一個 joint venture 合資的關係這才是把台灣跟美國的利益能夠綁在一起而且這個是對美國來講"},{"start":330.475,"end":341.552,"text":"美國優先但台灣也優先我覺得是國家戰略或總和外交是我自己是這半年多來雖然我不是在談判的第一線但是我都跟談判團隊密切的聯繫"},{"start":344.13,"end":369.23,"text":"谢谢部长这个你的这个外交的这个战略报告是很完整的我大概可以理解到说就是除了因应其实美国政府的这一个变化那我们也做好我们相对的这一些政策那过去就如同你刚刚提到的我们是讲价值但是现在价值之外我们还要加值加值的意思就是要让我们的利害是一致的"},{"start":369.79,"end":397.873,"text":"所以剛才你提到的說包含Server還有一些其他的這些高科技的產品我相信這些都是有注意的不過我也有注意到就是不管是在國內外很多我們跟這個外交部也好或者是國防部也好他們的相關的這些智庫他們主要辦的論壇都還是直接跟這一個半導體相關那我覺得這很好這是我國的充滿這個最國際的產業鏈裡面很重要的一環"},{"start":398.553,"end":425.649,"text":"但是我們台灣除了這些高科技產業還有傳統產業高度精密的機械園區這些機械的這些工業也是傳產的一些種性所以如果未來我們可以在這些智庫裡面也提到說除了這一個半導體是不可或缺之外我們的加工我們的這些傳產它同時也是在這個CP值也是非常高的那剛才提到的合資的這個部分那我們當然也是要鼓勵美國也來台灣"},{"start":426.469,"end":444.83,"text":"因为当然我们都知道说现在美方就是一直希望说我们把我们的这些相关的产业来移到美国去但是其实我们也必须要说服美国就是说在这个台湾台湾国内我们的国内实际上是有很多的产业它是CP值是高的它可以用更低的这一个"},{"start":446.991,"end":472.62,"text":"這個消耗來去達到更高的產值我想這部分儘管說我們當然知道現在的美國政府它的這個屬性可能跟過去的這個拜登政府不太一樣但我們還是要持續嘗試去努力所以部長想請教一下因為美方新版的這個國防戰略報告據傳啦據傳還沒有確定它是說本土跟西半球可能會成為首要要應對的層級"},{"start":474.341,"end":490.454,"text":"那這個部分我還是希望說部長在這樣的戰略重心他們萬一這樣調整的話那我們的跟美方之間的協調那就很重要了我覺得我們要強調一個根本就是說我們的安全他是不止他是依賴不只依賴一方的善意"},{"start":490.834,"end":509.387,"text":"所以我們剛剛講到總和外交裡面就是除了美國之外我們對歐洲對任何在印太有利害關係的國家我們都要加強對他們的這些之間的這些關聯性還有加強跟這些印太國家在印太有利害的不見得是身處在印太的國家比方說法國他雖然是在歐洲但是他其實在"},{"start":510.909,"end":521.565,"text":"這個太平洋上都甚至有他的屬地在所以他也是印太國家那所以這個部分我是想要請教一下部長你的戰略在針對萬一他們的重心做調整之外我們要怎麼辦"},{"start":522.977,"end":541.837,"text":"報告委員其實經過這快一年來的整個發展我們已經比較清楚川普政府他的一個不管是安全或者是國防的戰略因為他現在有兩個最重要的報告我們都密切注意一個是美國的這個整個國家安全的戰略另外一個是國防"},{"start":543.899,"end":558.534,"text":"方面的戰略也陸續有透露一些方向所以以您提到的美國國防戰略的報告來講我想印太還是最重要那台灣是一個不可或缺的夥伴那這個時候怎麼樣來加強因為中國的威權擴張要"},{"start":560.248,"end":571.62,"text":"跨過第一島鏈去太平洋要去抗衡美國所以我們的角色已經不是說兩岸關係我們是相看在整個印太第一島鏈所以從雙邊到小多邊所謂網格狀的安全的架構小多邊"},{"start":576.665,"end":591.55,"text":"小多邊 比如說我們當然除了跟美國有台灣關係法我們跟周邊國家不管日本菲律賓澳紐這個都在交織成各種我們想安全的韌性是不能太脆弱嘛我們都只靠台灣關係法跟電網一樣分散式電網跟電網一樣分散式電網一個latest work就是一個比較"},{"start":598.092,"end":621.04,"text":"交疊在一起的這種所謂的小多邊關係比如說那美國也在建構美日韓啊美日飛啊那甚至就是說包括澳紐也都進來那台灣是不可或缺因為第一島鏈彼此相關只要中共飛機一起飛或者是說環台的時候那你可以想他的軍艦潛艇出入"},{"start":624.52,"end":652.916,"text":"第一島鏈就是宮古海峽跟巴士海峽嘛那一個在北邊日本一個在南邊菲律賓所以為什麼他們那麼重視這一個台海安全而且不能夠讓台海變成內海化都是基於他們國家利益所以我們要很瞭解美國的國家利益是什麼他的印太戰略為什麼他要把前沿部署能夠往前沿到關島包括對於日韓非這種串聯的各種演習很多那台灣也是不可或缺的一部分"},{"start":653.676,"end":673.704,"text":"謝謝部長部長我覺得今天你講的這個重點我最後做個總結就是小多邊這個概念我認為這是一個我們未來可以突破的這是操之在我們的那有些沒有辦法操之在我們自己的部分我們就盡量去影響但是操之在我們的小多邊這個部分我認為這是外交部跟我們的經濟部都可以一起來協助謝謝謝謝我們休息五分鐘"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":355,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（10時43分）你好，請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。部長，從書面報告裡有指出鄭麗君副院長跟經貿談判辦公室的總談判代表，9月底已經跟商務部有進行了五輪的實體磋商，現在主要是232條款跟供應鏈合作持續在協商中。我是希望再次提醒，就是台美的經貿關係不要成為產業間的零和競逐，我們當然是要替半導體跟高科技的產業來爭取最大利益，但是也不可以犧牲農業跟這些弱勢的產業。我是希望部長能夠在未來你的「總合外交」裡能不能夠包含以強代弱的概念，就是我們很多優勢產業，像是半導體、高科技產業等這些產業鏈，我也看到部長很積極出訪的時候，都帶著這些產業鏈去參與，甚至把一些經貿的工作也融合到外交的工作裡。","但是在這部分有件事情就是，在傳統的產業上、在農業上，我們看今年整體的經濟是往上走，可是傳產、農業沒有跟著一起走，所以我們與其一個產業走一百步，不如每一個產業都往前走一步，針對這個部分，不知道部長有什麼樣的設計藍圖？以外交部的看法、視野，怎麼樣可以把我們以強代弱？想請教一下部長。"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，誠如您講的，其實台美這一次的關稅經貿談判，可以用總合外交來做一個大戰略，所以我們如果從關稅來看好像就是零和，可是如果涉及到投資，到底什麼產業是我們的優勢，我們可以擴展我們的供應鏈，而不是去移轉。另外，美國畢竟是最終端的消費市場以外，他有很好的科技、人才跟資金，所以怎麼樣為我所用，這個也是打造所謂經濟日不落國的關鍵。除了價值外交以外，當然很重要的是理念要相近，而經濟還有這些利益的一致，主要是台灣安全最大的保障，也因此我們在談的時候，我們的戰略目標是什麼，不是陷入被動，好像他要一塊我們給五毛，而是更主動地去規劃。這裡誠如您提到的232條款，當然是基於國安，企圖讓美國在工業化以外也可以避免在供應鏈上可能會受制於人，所以這個時候，我們跟他們可以扮演一個合作甚至合資的角色。因此，從半導體產業，我覺得從供應鏈的合作去看怎麼樣是對台灣有利。","另外，因為半導體產業又帶動最近的人工智慧，包括不只是AI chips、AI server、AI data center、AI robotics，甚至AI factory，這些是台灣的強項，譬如以伺服器來講，它是做AI計算必備的，而台灣有最先進的技術跟量產的能力，所以這個時候我們把美國當作一個市場也好，當作避免我們因為出口造成的貿易逆差，而可能會影響他們對我們的要求，像是提高關稅，這個布局到底是怎樣對台灣最有利，我們應該要有一個戰略的目標。所以誠如委員提到的，我們也跟美國談，要做到這些，必須讓台灣的企業能夠服務他們，比如所謂的科學園區或者智慧科技園區，這些也不是說就能夠移過去，因為涉及到法令、土地、水電，還有非常多的行政服務、包括單一窗口，我想委員很清楚，所以我們是有know-how的，這know-how是值錢的，我們可以跟他一起參與來投資科學園區的開發，這也就是台美聯合艦隊。","其實我5月已經率領電電公會還有八大工商協會到了德州，要打造所謂Taiwan Tower作為Team of Teams，也就是在德州，從我們現在電電公會的電子七哥，每一個都增加投資，而且未來的3年幾乎是指數性的成長，為什麼供不應求？因為比如Stargate 5,000億美金，就需要我們的AI server，而且我們還不只是賣AI server、AI chips、AI data center，我們整個未來的營運如果能夠提供這個服務，我們的關係、甚至我們怎麼樣變成一個joint venture（合資）的關係，這才是把台灣跟美國的利益能夠綁在一起，而且這對美國來講，美國優先，但台灣也優先，我覺得是國家戰略或總合外交是……這半年多來，雖然我不是在談判的第一線，但是我跟談判團隊都有密切的聯繫。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝部長。你的外交戰略報告很完整，我大概可以理解到，除了因應美國政府的變化，我們也做好我們相對的政策，過去就如同你剛剛提到的，我們是講價值，但是現在價值之外，我們還要加值，加值的意思就是要讓我們的利害是一致的。所以剛才你提到的，包含server，還有一些其他高科技的產品，我相信這些都是有助益的。不過，我也有注意到，不管是在國內外，很多我們跟外交部也好，或者是國防部也好，他們相關的這些智庫主要辦的論壇都還是直接跟半導體相關，我覺得很好，這是我國充滿最國際的產業鏈裡很重要的一環，但是我們台灣除了這些高科技產業，還有傳統產業、高度精密的機械園區，這些機械的工業也是傳產的縱線。所以如果未來我們可以在這些智庫裡也提到，除了半導體是不可或缺之外，我們的加工、這些傳產的CP值同時也是非常高的。","剛才提到合資的部分，我們當然也是要鼓勵美國也來台灣投資，我們都知道現在美方就是一直希望我們把我們這些相關的產業移到美國去，但是其實我們也必須要說服美國，在我們台灣國內事實上有很多產業的CP值是高的，可以用更低的消耗去達到更高的產值。我想這部分，儘管我們知道現在美國政府的屬性可能跟過去的拜登政府不太一樣，但我們還是要持續嘗試去努力。","所以部長，想請教一下，因為美方新版的國防戰略報告據傳還沒有確定，但本土跟西半球可能會成為首要應對的層級。針對這個部分，部長，我還是希望在這樣的戰略重心，他們萬一有這樣調整的話，我們跟美方之間的協調就很重要，我覺得我們要強調一個根本，就是我們的安全不只依賴一方的善意。所以，剛才講到總合外交裡除了美國之外，我們對歐洲、對任何在印太有利害關係的國家，都要加強對他們這些國家之間的關聯性，還有加強跟這些印太國家……在印太有利害的，不見得是身處在印太的國家，比方法國雖然在歐洲，但是其實在太平洋上都甚至有他的屬地在，所以他也是印太國家。針對這個部分，我是想要請教一下部長，你的戰略在……針對萬一他們的重心做調整之外，我們要怎麼辦？"],["林部長佳龍：報告委員，其實經過這快一年來的整個發展，我們已經比較清楚川普政府不管是安全或者國防的戰略，因為他現在有兩個最重要的報告，我們都有密切注意，一個是美國整個國家安全的戰略，另外一個是國防方面的戰略，也陸續有透露一些方向，所以以您剛提到的美國國防戰略的報告來講，我想印太還是最重要，台灣是一個不可或缺的夥伴，這個時候怎麼樣來加強，因為中國的威權擴張要跨過第一島鏈去太平洋，要去抗衡美國，所以我們的角色已經不是兩岸關係，我們是鑲嵌在整個印太第一島鏈，所以從雙邊到小多邊，所謂網格狀的安全架構……"],["陳委員冠廷：小多邊？我覺得部長講得很好。"],["林部長佳龍：小多邊，比如我們除了跟美國有台灣關係法，我們跟周邊國家不管日本、菲律賓、澳紐，這個都在交織成各種……我們講安全的韌性是不能太脆弱嘛！我們都只靠台灣關係法，就會陷入……"],["陳委員冠廷：跟電網一樣，分散式電網一樣。"],["林部長佳龍：對，一個latticework，就是一個比較是交疊在一起所謂的小多邊關係。比如美國也在建構美、日、韓或是美、日、菲，甚至是包括澳紐也都進來，也因為第一島鏈彼此相關，台灣是不可或缺，只要中共飛機一起飛，或者是環台的時候，你可以想他的軍艦及潛艇出入在第一島鏈，就是宮古海峽跟巴士海峽，一個在北邊的日本，一個在南邊的菲律賓，所以為什麼他們那麼重視台海安全，而且不能夠讓台海變成內海化，都是基於他們國家利益，所以我們要很了解美國的國家利益是什麼，而在他的印太戰略為什麼要把前沿部署往前延到關島，包括對於日、韓、菲這種串聯的各種演習很多，台灣也是不可或缺的一部分。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長。部長，我覺得你今天講到這個重點，我最後作個總結，就是小多邊這個概念，我認為這是一個我們未來可以突破的，這是操之在我們的，有些沒有辦法操之在我們自己的部分，我們就儘量去影響，但是操之在我們的小多邊這個部分，我認為這是外交部跟經濟部都可以一起來協助，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：對，就是minilateral，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，我們休息5分鐘。","休息（10時54分）","繼續開會（11時）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","接下來請徐巧芯委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-7","speakers":["馬文君","陳永康","陳俊宇","羅美玲","黃仁","林楚茵","葉元之","陳冠廷","徐巧芯","賴惠員","林德福","黃國昌","林憶君","王定宇","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔","林倩綺"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「近期台美關係及關稅談判進展」，併請行政院經貿談判辦公室、經\n濟部、農業部列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148601_00006"}}}