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00:01:43,617\n我們很早我們也看到國民黨幾位委員提出來的版本也不錯可是我看看昨天民進黨要提出這些里程計算方式這就是很複雜了\n\n6\n00:01:44,837 --> 00:02:06,202\n這很複雜所以我還是要建議我們洪部長在這裡大家都從事勞工運動的彼此之間的作法以及彼此之間的勞工的需求我們一目了然所以在這個部分我要特別啟齊洪部長跟有關單位特別因為當初\n\n7\n00:02:08,055 --> 00:02:35,949\n我不曉得為什麼把這種外送平台交給交通部其實勞動權利應該是勞動部來管所以這個應該大家趕快因為我看各部會都持有正面的態度肯定的態度所以我還是希望除了感謝我們召委排這個人以外我也希望洪部長趕快管政那在這裡\n\n8\n00:02:37,290 --> 00:02:41,660\n我特別跟部長要提供其實15萬的被\n\n9\n00:02:44,076 --> 00:03:07,410\n被這種平台剝削這個我也不需要再講那另外一個就是平台它的不透明抽帳不透明這個部分確確實實要把它放進去彼此之間算是平台是支方但是我們外送員是勞方但這兩個當中當然要有一個平台\n\n10\n00:03:08,090 --> 00:03:35,076\n要有一個公平透明的機制那現在問題呢問題就沒有所以在這個部分我還是要建議我們部長跟我們司長啊在這個部分多聽聽業者多聽聽我們這個勞工的聲音我想這樣的話會比較好啦那我也要拜託我們勞動部但是我在這裡真的要跟部長建議第一個\n\n11\n00:03:36,226 --> 00:04:02,789\n也就是希望多參考台灣民眾黨的版本我們已經發現到單軌是不能解決問題所以我們的版本本來就設計勞工雙軌制度所以這個部分一定要去考慮那到底單軌跟雙軌這個雙軌的部分也就是我們大家所講的\n\n12\n00:04:03,710 --> 00:04:32,698\n企業工的問題也就是跟他有一年一企業的過程當中他的勞保到底要在職業工會保或者要在公司保這個要把它理清楚特別提醒我們部長啊這個部分最好以現在的情況來講應該這個制度是雙軌制是對這個專法是最有幫助根文說明其實現在提出來的六個版本那包括民進黨團的版本\n\n13\n00:04:34,162 --> 00:04:56,583\n我都非常熟悉我都看過甚至業務單位也都做了分析所以這些版本我們都會綜合來參考其實這些版本的方向其實大致上都是一致的只是在做法上在技術上面可能有不同做法上面的差別但方向上我們認為都是相當一致的\n\n14\n00:04:56,943 --> 00:05:20,954\n都是希望對外送員對消費者尤其是對於這個合作的商家有更多權益上面的保護所以我還特別提醒也就是雙軌制啊也就是點出來本來平台的員工跟外送的員工企業工完全會不一樣所以在這個在訂定的時候要把它明確化這樣可能會好最後我們大家都知道\n\n15\n00:05:22,215 --> 00:05:38,637\n確保外送員的他的職災勞保薪資保障以及各種的權益勞動三法這等等都要把它涵蓋下去這樣的專法也就是對整個資方跟勞方跟平台\n\n16\n00:05:39,378 --> 00:05:57,892\n才是會有幫助的在保險的方面當然我覺得我們都會特別去考慮包括像商業保險那尤其是大家最在意安全的問題所以安全的部分就會跟災保會有關係那我覺得這幾個部分我想我們都會特別著重來考慮多聽聽平台多聽聽業者多聽聽消費者\n\n17\n00:06:00,254 --> 00:06:28,065\n消費者就很簡單嘛他只要他希望的東西可以安全到達但是勞工的權益確保平台的營運正常這樣的話才是真正一個非常好的兼顧三營的一個專華所以要拜託部長不要等到三個月盡快去做我相信我們王厚為師長他是很積極的\n\n18\n00:06:28,945 --> 00:06:33,529\n只要你一聲令下他會做得很快不需要三個月好不好謝謝林國成委員發言本席宣告\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t27967\t林委員發言我想要謝謝召委請洪部長請洪部長後圍市長要不要來協助一下林委員好請市長我們打開創戶收量化啦部長\n29318\t45257\t任何一個勞工立專法確確實實有他一定的困難這個我想也沒有必要去閃抖其實委員非常清楚對 立專法 但是沒辦法\n47517\t65524\t時代的歧視所趨國際的方向也是這樣所以不得不立這個專法那我看到今天有關單位我要特別也要肯定我們勞動部在這段時間也廣增各界的意見\n66704\t87701\t但是虽有不足但是我还是建议洪部长要多听听基层工会以及从业人员的新增这样定出来的话是对劳工才会有所保护所以我觉得我们台湾民众党其实我们提的版本是很早\n88547\t103617\t我們很早我們也看到國民黨幾位委員提出來的版本也不錯可是我看看昨天民進黨要提出這些里程計算方式這就是很複雜了\n104837\t126202\t這很複雜所以我還是要建議我們洪部長在這裡大家都從事勞工運動的彼此之間的作法以及彼此之間的勞工的需求我們一目了然所以在這個部分我要特別啟齊洪部長跟有關單位特別因為當初\n128055\t155949\t我不曉得為什麼把這種外送平台交給交通部其實勞動權利應該是勞動部來管所以這個應該大家趕快因為我看各部會都持有正面的態度肯定的態度所以我還是希望除了感謝我們召委排這個人以外我也希望洪部長趕快管政那在這裡\n157290\t161660\t我特別跟部長要提供其實15萬的被\n164076\t187410\t被這種平台剝削這個我也不需要再講那另外一個就是平台它的不透明抽帳不透明這個部分確確實實要把它放進去彼此之間算是平台是支方但是我們外送員是勞方但這兩個當中當然要有一個平台\n188090\t215076\t要有一個公平透明的機制那現在問題呢問題就沒有所以在這個部分我還是要建議我們部長跟我們司長啊在這個部分多聽聽業者多聽聽我們這個勞工的聲音我想這樣的話會比較好啦那我也要拜託我們勞動部但是我在這裡真的要跟部長建議第一個\n216226\t242789\t也就是希望多參考台灣民眾黨的版本我們已經發現到單軌是不能解決問題所以我們的版本本來就設計勞工雙軌制度所以這個部分一定要去考慮那到底單軌跟雙軌這個雙軌的部分也就是我們大家所講的\n243710\t272698\t企業工的問題也就是跟他有一年一企業的過程當中他的勞保到底要在職業工會保或者要在公司保這個要把它理清楚特別提醒我們部長啊這個部分最好以現在的情況來講應該這個制度是雙軌制是對這個專法是最有幫助根文說明其實現在提出來的六個版本那包括民進黨團的版本\n274162\t296583\t我都非常熟悉我都看過甚至業務單位也都做了分析所以這些版本我們都會綜合來參考其實這些版本的方向其實大致上都是一致的只是在做法上在技術上面可能有不同做法上面的差別但方向上我們認為都是相當一致的\n296943\t320954\t都是希望對外送員對消費者尤其是對於這個合作的商家有更多權益上面的保護所以我還特別提醒也就是雙軌制啊也就是點出來本來平台的員工跟外送的員工企業工完全會不一樣所以在這個在訂定的時候要把它明確化這樣可能會好最後我們大家都知道\n322215\t338637\t確保外送員的他的職災勞保薪資保障以及各種的權益勞動三法這等等都要把它涵蓋下去這樣的專法也就是對整個資方跟勞方跟平台\n339378\t357892\t才是會有幫助的在保險的方面當然我覺得我們都會特別去考慮包括像商業保險那尤其是大家最在意安全的問題所以安全的部分就會跟災保會有關係那我覺得這幾個部分我想我們都會特別著重來考慮多聽聽平台 多聽聽業者多聽聽消費者\n360254\t388065\t消費者就很簡單嘛他只要他希望的東西可以安全到達但是勞工的權益確保平台的營運正常這樣的話才是真正一個非常好的兼顧三營的一個專華所以要拜託部長不要等到三個月盡快去做我相信我們王厚為師長他是很積極的\n388945\t393529\t只要你一聲令下他會做得很快不需要三個月好不好謝謝林國成委員發言本席宣告\n","txt":"林委員發言我想要謝謝召委請洪部長請洪部長後圍市長要不要來協助一下林委員好請市長我們打開創戶收量化啦部長\n任何一個勞工立專法確確實實有他一定的困難這個我想也沒有必要去閃抖其實委員非常清楚對 立專法 但是沒辦法\n時代的歧視所趨國際的方向也是這樣所以不得不立這個專法那我看到今天有關單位我要特別也要肯定我們勞動部在這段時間也廣增各界的意見\n但是虽有不足但是我还是建议洪部长要多听听基层工会以及从业人员的新增这样定出来的话是对劳工才会有所保护所以我觉得我们台湾民众党其实我们提的版本是很早\n我們很早我們也看到國民黨幾位委員提出來的版本也不錯可是我看看昨天民進黨要提出這些里程計算方式這就是很複雜了\n這很複雜所以我還是要建議我們洪部長在這裡大家都從事勞工運動的彼此之間的作法以及彼此之間的勞工的需求我們一目了然所以在這個部分我要特別啟齊洪部長跟有關單位特別因為當初\n我不曉得為什麼把這種外送平台交給交通部其實勞動權利應該是勞動部來管所以這個應該大家趕快因為我看各部會都持有正面的態度肯定的態度所以我還是希望除了感謝我們召委排這個人以外我也希望洪部長趕快管政那在這裡\n我特別跟部長要提供其實15萬的被\n被這種平台剝削這個我也不需要再講那另外一個就是平台它的不透明抽帳不透明這個部分確確實實要把它放進去彼此之間算是平台是支方但是我們外送員是勞方但這兩個當中當然要有一個平台\n要有一個公平透明的機制那現在問題呢問題就沒有所以在這個部分我還是要建議我們部長跟我們司長啊在這個部分多聽聽業者多聽聽我們這個勞工的聲音我想這樣的話會比較好啦那我也要拜託我們勞動部但是我在這裡真的要跟部長建議第一個\n也就是希望多參考台灣民眾黨的版本我們已經發現到單軌是不能解決問題所以我們的版本本來就設計勞工雙軌制度所以這個部分一定要去考慮那到底單軌跟雙軌這個雙軌的部分也就是我們大家所講的\n企業工的問題也就是跟他有一年一企業的過程當中他的勞保到底要在職業工會保或者要在公司保這個要把它理清楚特別提醒我們部長啊這個部分最好以現在的情況來講應該這個制度是雙軌制是對這個專法是最有幫助根文說明其實現在提出來的六個版本那包括民進黨團的版本\n我都非常熟悉我都看過甚至業務單位也都做了分析所以這些版本我們都會綜合來參考其實這些版本的方向其實大致上都是一致的只是在做法上在技術上面可能有不同做法上面的差別但方向上我們認為都是相當一致的\n都是希望對外送員對消費者尤其是對於這個合作的商家有更多權益上面的保護所以我還特別提醒也就是雙軌制啊也就是點出來本來平台的員工跟外送的員工企業工完全會不一樣所以在這個在訂定的時候要把它明確化這樣可能會好最後我們大家都知道\n確保外送員的他的職災勞保薪資保障以及各種的權益勞動三法這等等都要把它涵蓋下去這樣的專法也就是對整個資方跟勞方跟平台\n才是會有幫助的在保險的方面當然我覺得我們都會特別去考慮包括像商業保險那尤其是大家最在意安全的問題所以安全的部分就會跟災保會有關係那我覺得這幾個部分我想我們都會特別著重來考慮多聽聽平台 多聽聽業者多聽聽消費者\n消費者就很簡單嘛他只要他希望的東西可以安全到達但是勞工的權益確保平台的營運正常這樣的話才是真正一個非常好的兼顧三營的一個專華所以要拜託部長不要等到三個月盡快去做我相信我們王厚為師長他是很積極的\n只要你一聲令下他會做得很快不需要三個月好不好謝謝林國成委員發言本席宣告\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:27.967\n林委員發言我想要謝謝召委請洪部長請洪部長後圍市長要不要來協助一下林委員好請市長我們打開創戶收量化啦部長\n\n00:29.318 --> 00:45.257\n任何一個勞工立專法確確實實有他一定的困難這個我想也沒有必要去閃抖其實委員非常清楚對立專法但是沒辦法\n\n00:47.517 --> 01:05.524\n時代的歧視所趨國際的方向也是這樣所以不得不立這個專法那我看到今天有關單位我要特別也要肯定我們勞動部在這段時間也廣增各界的意見\n\n01:06.704 --> 01:27.701\n但是虽有不足但是我还是建议洪部长要多听听基层工会以及从业人员的新增这样定出来的话是对劳工才会有所保护所以我觉得我们台湾民众党其实我们提的版本是很早\n\n01:28.547 --> 01:43.617\n我們很早我們也看到國民黨幾位委員提出來的版本也不錯可是我看看昨天民進黨要提出這些里程計算方式這就是很複雜了\n\n01:44.837 --> 02:06.202\n這很複雜所以我還是要建議我們洪部長在這裡大家都從事勞工運動的彼此之間的作法以及彼此之間的勞工的需求我們一目了然所以在這個部分我要特別啟齊洪部長跟有關單位特別因為當初\n\n02:08.055 --> 02:35.949\n我不曉得為什麼把這種外送平台交給交通部其實勞動權利應該是勞動部來管所以這個應該大家趕快因為我看各部會都持有正面的態度肯定的態度所以我還是希望除了感謝我們召委排這個人以外我也希望洪部長趕快管政那在這裡\n\n02:37.290 --> 02:41.660\n我特別跟部長要提供其實15萬的被\n\n02:44.076 --> 03:07.410\n被這種平台剝削這個我也不需要再講那另外一個就是平台它的不透明抽帳不透明這個部分確確實實要把它放進去彼此之間算是平台是支方但是我們外送員是勞方但這兩個當中當然要有一個平台\n\n03:08.090 --> 03:35.076\n要有一個公平透明的機制那現在問題呢問題就沒有所以在這個部分我還是要建議我們部長跟我們司長啊在這個部分多聽聽業者多聽聽我們這個勞工的聲音我想這樣的話會比較好啦那我也要拜託我們勞動部但是我在這裡真的要跟部長建議第一個\n\n03:36.226 --> 04:02.789\n也就是希望多參考台灣民眾黨的版本我們已經發現到單軌是不能解決問題所以我們的版本本來就設計勞工雙軌制度所以這個部分一定要去考慮那到底單軌跟雙軌這個雙軌的部分也就是我們大家所講的\n\n04:03.710 --> 04:32.698\n企業工的問題也就是跟他有一年一企業的過程當中他的勞保到底要在職業工會保或者要在公司保這個要把它理清楚特別提醒我們部長啊這個部分最好以現在的情況來講應該這個制度是雙軌制是對這個專法是最有幫助根文說明其實現在提出來的六個版本那包括民進黨團的版本\n\n04:34.162 --> 04:56.583\n我都非常熟悉我都看過甚至業務單位也都做了分析所以這些版本我們都會綜合來參考其實這些版本的方向其實大致上都是一致的只是在做法上在技術上面可能有不同做法上面的差別但方向上我們認為都是相當一致的\n\n04:56.943 --> 05:20.954\n都是希望對外送員對消費者尤其是對於這個合作的商家有更多權益上面的保護所以我還特別提醒也就是雙軌制啊也就是點出來本來平台的員工跟外送的員工企業工完全會不一樣所以在這個在訂定的時候要把它明確化這樣可能會好最後我們大家都知道\n\n05:22.215 --> 05:38.637\n確保外送員的他的職災勞保薪資保障以及各種的權益勞動三法這等等都要把它涵蓋下去這樣的專法也就是對整個資方跟勞方跟平台\n\n05:39.378 --> 05:57.892\n才是會有幫助的在保險的方面當然我覺得我們都會特別去考慮包括像商業保險那尤其是大家最在意安全的問題所以安全的部分就會跟災保會有關係那我覺得這幾個部分我想我們都會特別著重來考慮多聽聽平台多聽聽業者多聽聽消費者\n\n06:00.254 --> 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多聽聽業者多聽聽消費者"},{"start":360.254,"end":388.065,"text":"消費者就很簡單嘛他只要他希望的東西可以安全到達但是勞工的權益確保平台的營運正常這樣的話才是真正一個非常好的兼顧三營的一個專華所以要拜託部長不要等到三個月盡快去做我相信我們王厚為師長他是很積極的"},{"start":388.945,"end":393.529,"text":"只要你一聲令下他會做得很快不需要三個月好不好謝謝林國成委員發言本席宣告"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":959,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（12時20分）謝謝召委，請洪部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：林委員好。"],["林委員國成：厚偉司長要不要來協助一下？"],["主席：請司長。"],["林委員國成：我們打開天窗說亮話啦，部長，針對任何一個勞工去立專法，確確實實有一定的困難，這個我想也沒有必要去閃躲，剛剛……"],["洪部長申翰：其實委員非常清楚。"],["林委員國成：對，立專法，但是沒辦法，時代的趨勢所趨，國際的方向也是這樣，所以不得不立這個專法。我看到今天有關單位，我要特別肯定我們勞動部在這段時間也廣徵各界的意見，雖有不足，但我還是建議洪部長要多聽聽基層工會以及從業人員的心聲，這樣制定出來的法對勞工才會有所保障。"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["林委員國成：其實我們台灣民眾黨很早就提出版本了，我們也看到國民黨幾位委員提出的版本也不錯，可是我看到昨天民進黨要提出這些里程計算方式，這就很複雜了。所以我還是要建議我們洪部長，大家都是從事勞工運動的，彼此之間的作法以及勞工的需求我們是一目了然，所以在這個部分，我要特別期許洪部長跟有關單位，因為我不曉得當初為什麼把這種外送平台交給交通部，其實勞動權利應該是勞動部來管，所以這個部分應該大家趕快……我看各部會都持正面的態度、肯定的態度，所以我除了感謝我們召委排審這個法案以外，我也希望洪部長要趕快。","在這裡我特別要跟部長說的是，15萬外送員被平台剝削的情況不需要再講了，另外一個就是平台抽帳不透明的這個部分，確確實實要把它放進去。彼此之間，平台是資方，我們外送員是勞方，這兩個當中當然要有一個平台，要有一個公平、透明的機制，現在的問題就是沒有，所以對於這個部分，我還是要建議我們部長跟司長要多聽聽業者及勞工的聲音，我想這樣制定的法會比較好啦，所以我要拜託我們勞動部……"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["林委員國成：我在這裡要向部長提出幾個建議，第一個，希望多參考台灣民眾黨的版本，我們已經發現到單軌是不能解決問題，而我們的版本本來就設計勞工雙軌制度，這個部分一定要去考慮。到底要單軌或雙軌，而這個雙軌的部分也就是我們大家所講的契約工的問題，在他一年一契約的過程當中，他的勞保到底是要在職業工會保或者要在公司保，這個要把它釐清楚，所以特別提醒我們部長，以現在的情況來講，這個制度採雙軌制對這個專法應該是最有幫助的。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，其實現在提出來的6個版本，包括民進黨團的版本，我都非常熟悉，我都看過，甚至業務單位也都做了分析，所以這些版本我們都會綜合來參考。其實這些版本的方向大致上都是一致的，只是在作法上，在技術上可能有不同作法上的差別，但是在方向上，我們認為都是相當一致的，都是希望對外送員、對消費者，尤其是對於合作的商家，有更多權益上的保護。"],["林委員國成：是，所以我還是要特別提醒、特別點出來，在雙軌制的部分，本來平台的員工跟外送員工、契約工完全不一樣，所以在訂定的時候要把它明確化，這樣可能會比較好。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["林委員國成：最後，我們大家都知道，確保外送員的職災保險、勞保、薪資保障以及各種的權益，勞動三法等等，都要涵蓋下去，這樣的專法對整個資方、勞方跟平台才是有幫助的。"],["洪部長申翰：在保險的方面，我覺得我們都會特別去考慮，包括像商業保險，尤其大家最在意的安全問題，安全的部分就會跟災保有關係，這幾個部分我們都會特別著重考慮。"],["林委員國成：要把它納入啦，好不好？多聽聽平台、多聽聽業者、多聽聽消費者的聲音。"],["洪部長申翰：當然！"],["林委員國成：消費者就很簡單嘛，他希望購買的東西可以安全到達，但是勞工的權益確保，平台的營運正常，這樣才是真正一個非常好的、兼顧三贏的專法，所以要拜託部長，不要等到3個月，儘快去做，我相信我們王厚偉司長是很積極的，只要你一聲令下，他會做得很快，不需要3個月，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：他們很辛苦。"],["林委員國成：好，謝謝，大家辛苦了！"],["主席：謝謝林國成委員發言。","本席宣告：稍後於張啓楷委員質詢完畢後休息20分鐘用餐，然後再繼續開會。","請李坤城委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-6","speakers":["廖偉翔","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","王育敏","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","陳菁徽","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","黃國昌","林國成","李坤城","張啓楷","許宇甄","黃捷","鍾佳濱","楊曜","林楚茵","吳思瑤","劉建國","盧縣一","張智倫","林沛祥","涂權吉"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；二、台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送\n平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人\n員權益保障法草案」案；五、委員王鴻薇等20 人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草\n案」案；六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148801_00003"}}}