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{\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 257.625, \"end\": 258.806, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"休\", \"start\": 258.806, \"end\": 259.026, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 259.026, \"end\": 259.046, \"score\": 0.002}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,298 --> 00:00:23,828\n好謝謝主席我們請部長請紅部長黃委員好好紅部長午安喔今天早上有聽到您有直接表明說我們勞動部會有外送員專法的版本是嗎對什麼時候\n\n2\n00:00:25,445 --> 00:00:49,151\n其實版本已經進入到最後收斂的階段了那但是接下來可能還要說因為有些跨部會的法制的工作要進行所以我們是希望在三個月內OK好謝謝部長喔三個月那這個其實是各黨團的共識包括我們民進黨團最近也提出我們的版本那其實外送員也等很久了然後六都其實也都有自己的自治條例是\n\n3\n00:00:49,471 --> 00:01:07,125\n所以我在這邊想要提醒部長的是我認為接下來大家進到版本的討論之前必須要認知到一個最大的問題就是演算法的不透明因為我一直認為這件事情演算法的霸權是造成所有外送員勞動權益受損最大的關鍵\n\n4\n00:01:10,047 --> 00:01:28,172\n為什麼呢因為這個演算法不透明導致外送員他們想要例如說他們突然被停權想要申訴想要舉證的時候都被這個雇主被列為說是不是都是因為演算法的問題可是問題是這個演算法其實就是雇主造成的啊\n\n5\n00:01:28,872 --> 00:01:48,428\n那他們不斷的推給說因為演算法其實裡面都有寫但是因為演算法不透明無法被驗證無法被追溯導致於外送員他們各式各樣的權益都被框在這個霸權之下所以他們沒有辦法進行議價沒有辦法跟僱主說因為演算法的問題造成我種種的勞動權益的受損\n\n6\n00:01:50,390 --> 00:02:07,924\n那甚至包括說我也聽到外送員他們不斷的在片面的調降薪資甚至是連夾單的費用都不斷的被砍那他們想要去申訴也申訴無門就因為這個演算法裡面各式各樣的機制他們都無從去跟雇主抗衡\n\n7\n00:02:08,564 --> 00:02:31,583\n所以我認為這一次的關鍵接下來既然要修法了拜託勞動部一定要站在外送員的角度去了解這個演算法到底要如何讓他們作為其實就是員工他們就是老實說他們就是在這個產業裡面的勞動的一員那到底要如何讓這個演算法是他們有辦法被保障的這個要拜託部長\n\n8\n00:02:33,645 --> 00:02:48,364\n那当然我在这边最后还是要强调说就是我一直认为说在这个数位产业里面这些外送员的权益跟消费者的权益很容易最后都是让这个平台方一方独大\n\n9\n00:02:49,345 --> 00:03:03,398\n導致受損的不只是消費者還有包括外送員所以我認為接下來進來要制定專法了我在這邊就是唯一一個提醒就是這個演算法的透明度接下來一定要非常非常審慎的進行討論OK\n\n10\n00:03:05,700 --> 00:03:32,981\n好那其他的部分包括說剛剛其實也有其他委員提到保險的部分那包括所有的勞動權益還有他們的一些交通風險到底如何讓外送員不會因為為了要瘋狂的跑單瘋狂的搶單才可以去拿到跟過去一樣的薪資導致於說他們不斷的在增加個人的交通上面的風險這件事情因為其實交通部他們也有針對這個\n\n11\n00:03:35,243 --> 00:03:51,966\n汽車運輸業的管理規則還有汽車運輸業的運價準則他們也有提出修正的草案了那我不知道說這方面我們勞動部跟交通部目前討論到的共識到什麼程度了是已經收尾了還是其實都差不多了\n\n12\n00:03:57,352 --> 00:04:19,046\n委員這部分就由交通部來說明有關那個汽車運輸業管理規則跟運價準則相關的一個修法我們大概跟相關的工會都有所討論原則上我們會在11月來公告相關的草案OK好11月公告相關草案然後我們勞動部三個月內送出外送員的專訪是好謝謝謝謝黃婕委員那現在宣告休息\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4298\t23828\t好謝謝主席我們請部長請紅部長黃委員好好紅部長午安喔今天早上有聽到您有直接表明說我們勞動部會有外送員專法的版本是嗎對什麼時候\n25445\t49151\t其實版本已經進入到最後收斂的階段了那但是接下來可能還要說因為有些跨部會的法制的工作要進行所以我們是希望在三個月內OK好謝謝部長喔三個月那這個其實是各黨團的共識包括我們民進黨團最近也提出我們的版本那其實外送員也等很久了然後六都其實也都有自己的自治條例是\n49471\t67125\t所以我在這邊想要提醒部長的是我認為接下來大家進到版本的討論之前必須要認知到一個最大的問題就是演算法的不透明因為我一直認為這件事情演算法的霸權是造成所有外送員勞動權益受損最大的關鍵\n70047\t88172\t為什麼呢因為這個演算法不透明導致外送員他們想要例如說他們突然被停權想要申訴想要舉證的時候都被這個雇主被列為說是不是都是因為演算法的問題可是問題是這個演算法其實就是雇主造成的啊\n88872\t108428\t那他們不斷的推給說因為演算法其實裡面都有寫但是因為演算法不透明無法被驗證無法被追溯導致於外送員他們各式各樣的權益都被框在這個霸權之下所以他們沒有辦法進行議價沒有辦法跟僱主說因為演算法的問題造成我種種的勞動權益的受損\n110390\t127924\t那甚至包括說我也聽到外送員他們不斷的在片面的調降薪資甚至是連夾單的費用都不斷的被砍那他們想要去申訴也申訴無門就因為這個演算法裡面各式各樣的機制他們都無從去跟雇主抗衡\n128564\t151583\t所以我認為這一次的關鍵接下來既然要修法了拜託勞動部一定要站在外送員的角度去了解這個演算法到底要如何讓他們作為其實就是員工他們就是老實說他們就是在這個產業裡面的勞動的一員那到底要如何讓這個演算法是他們有辦法被保障的這個要拜託部長\n153645\t168364\t那当然我在这边最后还是要强调说就是我一直认为说在这个数位产业里面这些外送员的权益跟消费者的权益很容易最后都是让这个平台方一方独大\n169345\t183398\t導致受損的不只是消費者還有包括外送員所以我認為接下來進來要制定專法了我在這邊就是唯一一個提醒就是這個演算法的透明度接下來一定要非常非常審慎的進行討論OK\n185700\t212981\t好那其他的部分包括說剛剛其實也有其他委員提到保險的部分那包括所有的勞動權益還有他們的一些交通風險到底如何讓外送員不會因為為了要瘋狂的跑單瘋狂的搶單才可以去拿到跟過去一樣的薪資導致於說他們不斷的在增加個人的交通上面的風險這件事情因為其實交通部他們也有針對這個\n215243\t231966\t汽車運輸業的管理規則還有汽車運輸業的運價準則他們也有提出修正的草案了那我不知道說這方面我們勞動部跟交通部目前討論到的共識到什麼程度了是已經收尾了還是其實都差不多了\n237352\t259046\t委員這部分就由交通部來說明有關那個汽車運輸業管理規則跟運價準則相關的一個修法我們大概跟相關的工會都有所討論原則上我們會在11月來公告相關的草案OK好11月公告相關草案然後我們勞動部三個月內送出外送員的專訪是好謝謝謝謝黃婕委員那現在宣告休息\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請部長請紅部長黃委員好好紅部長午安喔今天早上有聽到您有直接表明說我們勞動部會有外送員專法的版本是嗎對什麼時候\n其實版本已經進入到最後收斂的階段了那但是接下來可能還要說因為有些跨部會的法制的工作要進行所以我們是希望在三個月內OK好謝謝部長喔三個月那這個其實是各黨團的共識包括我們民進黨團最近也提出我們的版本那其實外送員也等很久了然後六都其實也都有自己的自治條例是\n所以我在這邊想要提醒部長的是我認為接下來大家進到版本的討論之前必須要認知到一個最大的問題就是演算法的不透明因為我一直認為這件事情演算法的霸權是造成所有外送員勞動權益受損最大的關鍵\n為什麼呢因為這個演算法不透明導致外送員他們想要例如說他們突然被停權想要申訴想要舉證的時候都被這個雇主被列為說是不是都是因為演算法的問題可是問題是這個演算法其實就是雇主造成的啊\n那他們不斷的推給說因為演算法其實裡面都有寫但是因為演算法不透明無法被驗證無法被追溯導致於外送員他們各式各樣的權益都被框在這個霸權之下所以他們沒有辦法進行議價沒有辦法跟僱主說因為演算法的問題造成我種種的勞動權益的受損\n那甚至包括說我也聽到外送員他們不斷的在片面的調降薪資甚至是連夾單的費用都不斷的被砍那他們想要去申訴也申訴無門就因為這個演算法裡面各式各樣的機制他們都無從去跟雇主抗衡\n所以我認為這一次的關鍵接下來既然要修法了拜託勞動部一定要站在外送員的角度去了解這個演算法到底要如何讓他們作為其實就是員工他們就是老實說他們就是在這個產業裡面的勞動的一員那到底要如何讓這個演算法是他們有辦法被保障的這個要拜託部長\n那当然我在这边最后还是要强调说就是我一直认为说在这个数位产业里面这些外送员的权益跟消费者的权益很容易最后都是让这个平台方一方独大\n導致受損的不只是消費者還有包括外送員所以我認為接下來進來要制定專法了我在這邊就是唯一一個提醒就是這個演算法的透明度接下來一定要非常非常審慎的進行討論OK\n好那其他的部分包括說剛剛其實也有其他委員提到保險的部分那包括所有的勞動權益還有他們的一些交通風險到底如何讓外送員不會因為為了要瘋狂的跑單瘋狂的搶單才可以去拿到跟過去一樣的薪資導致於說他們不斷的在增加個人的交通上面的風險這件事情因為其實交通部他們也有針對這個\n汽車運輸業的管理規則還有汽車運輸業的運價準則他們也有提出修正的草案了那我不知道說這方面我們勞動部跟交通部目前討論到的共識到什麼程度了是已經收尾了還是其實都差不多了\n委員這部分就由交通部來說明有關那個汽車運輸業管理規則跟運價準則相關的一個修法我們大概跟相關的工會都有所討論原則上我們會在11月來公告相關的草案OK好11月公告相關草案然後我們勞動部三個月內送出外送員的專訪是好謝謝謝謝黃婕委員那現在宣告休息\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.298 --> 00:23.828\n好謝謝主席我們請部長請紅部長黃委員好好紅部長午安喔今天早上有聽到您有直接表明說我們勞動部會有外送員專法的版本是嗎對什麼時候\n\n00:25.445 --> 00:49.151\n其實版本已經進入到最後收斂的階段了那但是接下來可能還要說因為有些跨部會的法制的工作要進行所以我們是希望在三個月內OK好謝謝部長喔三個月那這個其實是各黨團的共識包括我們民進黨團最近也提出我們的版本那其實外送員也等很久了然後六都其實也都有自己的自治條例是\n\n00:49.471 --> 01:07.125\n所以我在這邊想要提醒部長的是我認為接下來大家進到版本的討論之前必須要認知到一個最大的問題就是演算法的不透明因為我一直認為這件事情演算法的霸權是造成所有外送員勞動權益受損最大的關鍵\n\n01:10.047 --> 01:28.172\n為什麼呢因為這個演算法不透明導致外送員他們想要例如說他們突然被停權想要申訴想要舉證的時候都被這個雇主被列為說是不是都是因為演算法的問題可是問題是這個演算法其實就是雇主造成的啊\n\n01:28.872 --> 01:48.428\n那他們不斷的推給說因為演算法其實裡面都有寫但是因為演算法不透明無法被驗證無法被追溯導致於外送員他們各式各樣的權益都被框在這個霸權之下所以他們沒有辦法進行議價沒有辦法跟僱主說因為演算法的問題造成我種種的勞動權益的受損\n\n01:50.390 --> 02:07.924\n那甚至包括說我也聽到外送員他們不斷的在片面的調降薪資甚至是連夾單的費用都不斷的被砍那他們想要去申訴也申訴無門就因為這個演算法裡面各式各樣的機制他們都無從去跟雇主抗衡\n\n02:08.564 --> 02:31.583\n所以我認為這一次的關鍵接下來既然要修法了拜託勞動部一定要站在外送員的角度去了解這個演算法到底要如何讓他們作為其實就是員工他們就是老實說他們就是在這個產業裡面的勞動的一員那到底要如何讓這個演算法是他們有辦法被保障的這個要拜託部長\n\n02:33.645 --> 02:48.364\n那当然我在这边最后还是要强调说就是我一直认为说在这个数位产业里面这些外送员的权益跟消费者的权益很容易最后都是让这个平台方一方独大\n\n02:49.345 --> 03:03.398\n導致受損的不只是消費者還有包括外送員所以我認為接下來進來要制定專法了我在這邊就是唯一一個提醒就是這個演算法的透明度接下來一定要非常非常審慎的進行討論OK\n\n03:05.700 --> 03:32.981\n好那其他的部分包括說剛剛其實也有其他委員提到保險的部分那包括所有的勞動權益還有他們的一些交通風險到底如何讓外送員不會因為為了要瘋狂的跑單瘋狂的搶單才可以去拿到跟過去一樣的薪資導致於說他們不斷的在增加個人的交通上面的風險這件事情因為其實交通部他們也有針對這個\n\n03:35.243 --> 03:51.966\n汽車運輸業的管理規則還有汽車運輸業的運價準則他們也有提出修正的草案了那我不知道說這方面我們勞動部跟交通部目前討論到的共識到什麼程度了是已經收尾了還是其實都差不多了\n\n03:57.352 --> 04:19.046\n委員這部分就由交通部來說明有關那個汽車運輸業管理規則跟運價準則相關的一個修法我們大概跟相關的工會都有所討論原則上我們會在11月來公告相關的草案OK好11月公告相關草案然後我們勞動部三個月內送出外送員的專訪是好謝謝謝謝黃婕委員那現在宣告休息\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.298,"end":23.828,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請部長請紅部長黃委員好好紅部長午安喔今天早上有聽到您有直接表明說我們勞動部會有外送員專法的版本是嗎對什麼時候"},{"start":25.445,"end":49.151,"text":"其實版本已經進入到最後收斂的階段了那但是接下來可能還要說因為有些跨部會的法制的工作要進行所以我們是希望在三個月內OK好謝謝部長喔三個月那這個其實是各黨團的共識包括我們民進黨團最近也提出我們的版本那其實外送員也等很久了然後六都其實也都有自己的自治條例是"},{"start":49.471,"end":67.125,"text":"所以我在這邊想要提醒部長的是我認為接下來大家進到版本的討論之前必須要認知到一個最大的問題就是演算法的不透明因為我一直認為這件事情演算法的霸權是造成所有外送員勞動權益受損最大的關鍵"},{"start":70.047,"end":88.172,"text":"為什麼呢因為這個演算法不透明導致外送員他們想要例如說他們突然被停權想要申訴想要舉證的時候都被這個雇主被列為說是不是都是因為演算法的問題可是問題是這個演算法其實就是雇主造成的啊"},{"start":88.872,"end":108.428,"text":"那他們不斷的推給說因為演算法其實裡面都有寫但是因為演算法不透明無法被驗證無法被追溯導致於外送員他們各式各樣的權益都被框在這個霸權之下所以他們沒有辦法進行議價沒有辦法跟僱主說因為演算法的問題造成我種種的勞動權益的受損"},{"start":110.39,"end":127.924,"text":"那甚至包括說我也聽到外送員他們不斷的在片面的調降薪資甚至是連夾單的費用都不斷的被砍那他們想要去申訴也申訴無門就因為這個演算法裡面各式各樣的機制他們都無從去跟雇主抗衡"},{"start":128.564,"end":151.583,"text":"所以我認為這一次的關鍵接下來既然要修法了拜託勞動部一定要站在外送員的角度去了解這個演算法到底要如何讓他們作為其實就是員工他們就是老實說他們就是在這個產業裡面的勞動的一員那到底要如何讓這個演算法是他們有辦法被保障的這個要拜託部長"},{"start":153.645,"end":168.364,"text":"那当然我在这边最后还是要强调说就是我一直认为说在这个数位产业里面这些外送员的权益跟消费者的权益很容易最后都是让这个平台方一方独大"},{"start":169.345,"end":183.398,"text":"導致受損的不只是消費者還有包括外送員所以我認為接下來進來要制定專法了我在這邊就是唯一一個提醒就是這個演算法的透明度接下來一定要非常非常審慎的進行討論OK"},{"start":185.7,"end":212.981,"text":"好那其他的部分包括說剛剛其實也有其他委員提到保險的部分那包括所有的勞動權益還有他們的一些交通風險到底如何讓外送員不會因為為了要瘋狂的跑單瘋狂的搶單才可以去拿到跟過去一樣的薪資導致於說他們不斷的在增加個人的交通上面的風險這件事情因為其實交通部他們也有針對這個"},{"start":215.243,"end":231.966,"text":"汽車運輸業的管理規則還有汽車運輸業的運價準則他們也有提出修正的草案了那我不知道說這方面我們勞動部跟交通部目前討論到的共識到什麼程度了是已經收尾了還是其實都差不多了"},{"start":237.352,"end":259.046,"text":"委員這部分就由交通部來說明有關那個汽車運輸業管理規則跟運價準則相關的一個修法我們大概跟相關的工會都有所討論原則上我們會在11月來公告相關的草案OK好11月公告相關草案然後我們勞動部三個月內送出外送員的專訪是好謝謝謝謝黃婕委員那現在宣告休息"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1098,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（12時46分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員捷：洪部長午安。今天早上有聽到您直接表明勞動部會有外送員專法的版本，是嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["黃委員捷：什麼時候？"],["洪部長申翰：其實版本已經進入到最後收斂的階段了，但是接下來可能有跨部會的法制工作要進行，所以我們是希望在三個月內可以送……"],["黃委員捷：OK，好，謝謝部長。三個月其實是各黨團的共識，包括民進黨團最近也提出我們的版本，其實外送員也等很久了，六都也都有自己的自治條例。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["黃委員捷：所以我在這邊想要提醒部長的，我認為接下來大家進到版本的討論之前，必須要認知到一個最大的問題，就是演算法的不透明。因為我一直認為這件事情，即演算法的霸權是造成所有外送員勞動權益受損最大的關鍵。為什麼呢？因為這個演算法不透明，導致外送員例如突然被停權，他們想要申訴、想要舉證的時候，都被雇主列為都是因為演算法的問題，可是問題是這個演算法其實就是雇主造成的啊！但他們不斷地推說演算法裡面都有寫，但是因為演算法不透明，無法被驗證，無法被追訴，導致於外送員各式各樣的權益都被框在這個霸權之下，所以他們沒有辦法進行議價，沒有辦法跟雇主說因為演算法的問題，造成其種種勞動權益受損。甚至我也聽到外送員不斷地被片面的調降薪資，甚至是連夾單的費用都不斷地被砍，他們想要申訴也申訴無門，就因為演算法裡面各式各樣的機制，造成他們都無從去跟雇主抗衡。所以我認為這一次的關鍵，接下來既然要修法了，拜託勞動部一定要站在外送員的角度，去瞭解這個演算法到底如何能夠作為，其實他們就是員工，老實說他們就是這個產業裡面勞動的一員，到底要如何讓這個演算法令他們是有辦法被保障的，這個要拜託部長。"],["洪部長申翰：當然。"],["黃委員捷：最後我要強調的是，我一直認為在這個數位產業裡面，這些外送員的權益跟消費者的權益很容易最後都是讓這個平台方一方獨大，導致受損的不只是消費者，還包括外送員。所以我認為接下來既然要制定專法了，我在此唯一一個提醒，就是演算法的透明度接下來一定要非常非常審慎地進行討論。","至於其他的部分，包括剛剛有其他委員提到保險的部分，包括所有的勞動權益以及他們的交通風險，如何讓外送員不會因為為了要瘋狂地跑單、瘋狂地搶單，才可以去拿到跟過去一樣的薪資，導致於他們不斷地增加個人在交通上的風險。事實上，交通部也針對汽車運輸業的管理規則及汽車運輸業的運價準則提出修正草案，我不知道這方面勞動部跟交通部目前討論到的共識是到什麼程度了，是已經收尾了？還是其實都差不多了？"],["陳次長彥伯：委員，這部分就由交通部來說明。"],["黃委員捷：好。"],["陳次長彥伯：有關汽車運輸業管理規則跟運價準則相關的修法，我們跟相關的工會都有所討論，原則上我們會在11月公告相關的草案。"],["黃委員捷：好，11月公告相關草案，另外是勞動部在三個月內送出外送員的專法。"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃捷委員。","現在休息20分鐘，休息。","休息（12時50分）","繼續開會（13時18分）"],["主席：繼續開會。","請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-6","speakers":["廖偉翔","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","王育敏","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","陳菁徽","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","黃國昌","林國成","李坤城","張啓楷","許宇甄","黃捷","鍾佳濱","楊曜","林楚茵","吳思瑤","劉建國","盧縣一","張智倫","林沛祥","涂權吉"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；二、台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送\n平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人\n員權益保障法草案」案；五、委員王鴻薇等20 人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草\n案」案；六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148801_00003"}}}