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\"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 327.785, \"end\": 327.805, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,169 --> 00:00:24,451\n好主席蔡常委員先進列席的政府機關首長官員會長工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請我們勞動部紅部長還有我們的交通部陳次長抒發部葉次長以及商發署的蘇署長那另外呢金管會保險局各支消費者保護都準備好\n\n2\n00:00:26,572 --> 00:00:41,121\n來那個他們慢慢來我們就趕快開始了部長這個部長你知道嗎我們現在有行政院憲法有海覽七法對不對有聽過嗎你知道去年我們行政院有一個打詐四法對不對現在還有一個國安十法\n\n3\n00:00:42,081 --> 00:01:09,429\n為什麼一個事情要分成那麼多法什麼原因因為這裡面可能會有一些不同職長的分工對不同部位的分工所以打造就分到好幾個部會海南也分到好幾個部會好那我們來看一下我們關心外送員我們關心他的權益那我們來看一下這個概念我很快的講一下其實外送員他其實很像什麼很像我們有線電視系統頻道上的節目透過有線電視系統然後透過線路的傳輸到我們收視戶身上\n\n4\n00:01:10,009 --> 00:01:31,093\n但是頻道上是在整合全國性的有線電視系統在整合我們餐廳要把他的餐飲送到消費者身上也是透過一個外送平台做這些資訊的分配派遣外送員然後送到消費者手上部長有沒有覺得這個跟有線電視系統一個是吃的一個是看的很像吧好我們往下看\n\n5\n00:01:31,653 --> 00:01:47,782\n所以我們來看一下糟糕的複雜的來啦單單是餐廳的餐飲要及時的送到消費者身上後面是最重要的是外送員但是你看消費者要付運費消費者跟平台這個運費的收取有消保費\n\n6\n00:01:48,903 --> 00:02:07,945\n餐廳也是有它的拆帳也有它的問題但是餐廳是由誰經濟部管的然後外送平台基本上好像是速發部但是外送平台還有兩個角色一個是類似貨運公司負責送貨一個是類似資訊公司負責金流跟資訊流這裡面又涉及到個資保護然後交通部他管什麼\n\n7\n00:02:08,686 --> 00:02:28,425\n管這些道路運輸的這些運價然後外送員的是勞工他的勞動權是勞動部請問勞動部這麼複雜的法律關係你有把握現在委員會有六個委員會的版本民進黨又有黨團版本好像都把主管機關設定在勞動部勞動部承受得了嗎\n\n8\n00:02:31,101 --> 00:02:59,513\n確實委員說的沒有錯我們其實能夠主要管的還是在於外送員的勞動權益或勞動關係的權益上面這是我們在權責上面比較能夠cover的主管的部分是的所以我們看到委員的提案至少民進黨團版我們focus的是什麼外送員的勞動權益所以我們是以外送員權益保障才加上另外一個外送平台的管理是不是這樣所以我想勞動部的權責主要是放在外送員的勞動權益好我們一下看\n\n9\n00:03:00,379 --> 00:03:15,242\n所以說我們看外送員的勞動權益勞動條件要怎麼樣這裡面有中央政府勞動部會希望訂立一個定型化契約全國一體適用但是實質上外送員可不可能從台北跑到屏東去送餐很難嘛\n\n10\n00:03:15,743 --> 00:03:36,168\n一定是在各該地方縣政府的轄內他類似像貨運公司一樣去那邊送餐嘛所以呢根據他使用的區域道路其實這些道路所在的範圍還是屬於地方主管機關所以勞動部未來有沒有先開始有這個心理準備未來你訂立的指引之後可能需要跟各地方政府的勞動機關還有他們的路徑機關來協調有沒有\n\n11\n00:03:40,030 --> 00:04:02,690\n呃當然因為這個法如果訂定以後其實在很多的執法的部分的權責其實也是會有地方政府會需要地方政府一起來來好好執行好我跟你說我們民進黨的黨團版我們第22條有提到說平台業者他很有可能把這些業務委託給地方的汽車貨運業者來負責這些道路上面對地方的主管機關好往下看\n\n12\n00:04:03,371 --> 00:04:23,761\n所以我們來看一下各方的權益保障跟平台管理其實最重要的是明確各部位的分工跨部位的合作才能保障各方權益譬如說外送員要有離線權外送員要有基本的報酬那勞動部訂一份契約但是平台呢他也跟另外的消費者餐廳和外送員他的契約爭議怎麼處理\n\n13\n00:04:24,941 --> 00:04:48,569\n還有外送員他也需要去有保險有職災保險這兩個都還是勞動部的權責但是平台他要保存這些紀錄各自保護你看看後面站的人越來越多因為呢這些都跟你後面的各部會有關是不是這樣你們後面都同意把後面同意的點個頭都同意嗎你看問題這麼大好往下看結論來了所以呢目前我們要保障外送員消費者及合作商家的三方權益\n\n14\n00:04:49,489 --> 00:05:10,850\n我們顧客呢他要求的是合理運費商店呢他要求平台不能過分的抽成外送員他需要有基本報酬還有透明停權跟送禮契約條件要透明要有申訴跟救濟的機制要有職災保險跟其他的商業保險補助然後平台呢這件事情問題來了平台的這些事情勞動部一個部會管得了嗎\n\n15\n00:05:12,131 --> 00:05:27,805\n需不需要速發部幫忙需要交通部速發部一起對那消費爭議搞不好還有消保會對不對那餐廳的爭議搞不好還有經濟部上發對不對好所以最後的結論有沒有結論有結論結論就是各位好好加油吧謝謝謝謝委員謝謝鍾嘉斌委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t24451\t好主席蔡常委員先進列席的政府機關首長官員會長工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請我們勞動部紅部長還有我們的交通部陳次長抒發部葉次長以及商發署的蘇署長那另外呢金管會保險局各支消費者保護都準備好\n26572\t41121\t來那個他們慢慢來我們就趕快開始了部長這個部長你知道嗎我們現在有行政院憲法有海覽七法對不對有聽過嗎你知道去年我們行政院有一個打詐四法對不對現在還有一個國安十法\n42081\t69429\t為什麼一個事情要分成那麼多法什麼原因因為這裡面可能會有一些不同職長的分工對 不同部位的分工所以打造就分到好幾個部會海南也分到好幾個部會好 那我們來看一下我們關心外送員我們關心他的權益那我們來看一下這個概念我很快的講一下其實外送員他其實很像什麼很像我們有線電視系統頻道上的節目透過有線電視系統然後透過線路的傳輸到我們收視戶身上\n70009\t91093\t但是頻道上是在整合全國性的有線電視系統在整合我們餐廳要把他的餐飲送到消費者身上也是透過一個外送平台做這些資訊的分配派遣外送員 然後送到消費者手上部長 有沒有覺得這個跟有線電視系統一個是吃的 一個是看的很像吧好 我們往下看\n91653\t107782\t所以我們來看一下糟糕的複雜的來啦單單是餐廳的餐飲要及時的送到消費者身上後面是最重要的是外送員但是你看消費者要付運費消費者跟平台這個運費的收取有消保費\n108903\t127945\t餐廳也是有它的拆帳也有它的問題但是餐廳是由誰 經濟部管的然後外送平台基本上好像是速發部但是外送平台還有兩個角色一個是類似貨運公司負責送貨一個是類似資訊公司負責金流跟資訊流這裡面又涉及到個資保護然後交通部他管什麼\n128686\t148425\t管這些道路運輸的這些運價然後外送員的是勞工他的勞動權是勞動部請問勞動部這麼複雜的法律關係你有把握現在委員會有六個委員會的版本民進黨又有黨團版本好像都把主管機關設定在勞動部勞動部承受得了嗎\n151101\t179513\t確實委員說的沒有錯我們其實能夠主要管的還是在於外送員的勞動權益或勞動關係的權益上面這是我們在權責上面比較能夠cover的主管的部分是的 所以我們看到委員的提案至少民進黨團版我們focus的是什麼外送員的勞動權益所以我們是以外送員權益保障才加上另外一個外送平台的管理是不是這樣所以我想勞動部的權責主要是放在外送員的勞動權益好 我們一下看\n180379\t195242\t所以說我們看外送員的勞動權益勞動條件要怎麼樣這裡面有中央政府勞動部會希望訂立一個定型化契約全國一體適用但是實質上外送員可不可能從台北跑到屏東去送餐很難嘛\n195743\t216168\t一定是在各該地方縣政府的轄內他類似像貨運公司一樣去那邊送餐嘛所以呢根據他使用的區域道路其實這些道路所在的範圍還是屬於地方主管機關所以勞動部未來有沒有先開始有這個心理準備未來你訂立的指引之後可能需要跟各地方政府的勞動機關還有他們的路徑機關來協調有沒有\n220030\t242690\t呃當然因為這個法如果訂定以後其實在很多的執法的部分的權責其實也是會有地方政府會需要地方政府一起來來好好執行好我跟你說我們民進黨的黨團版我們第22條有提到說平台業者他很有可能把這些業務委託給地方的汽車貨運業者來負責這些道路上面對地方的主管機關好往下看\n243371\t263761\t所以我們來看一下各方的權益保障跟平台管理其實最重要的是明確各部位的分工跨部位的合作才能保障各方權益譬如說外送員要有離線權外送員要有基本的報酬那勞動部訂一份契約但是平台呢他也跟另外的消費者餐廳和外送員他的契約爭議怎麼處理\n264941\t288569\t還有外送員他也需要去有保險有職災保險這兩個都還是勞動部的權責但是平台他要保存這些紀錄各自保護你看看後面站的人越來越多因為呢這些都跟你後面的各部會有關是不是這樣你們後面都同意把後面同意的點個頭都同意嗎你看問題這麼大好往下看結論來了所以呢目前我們要保障外送員消費者及合作商家的三方權益\n289489\t310850\t我們顧客呢 他要求的是合理運費商店呢 他要求平台不能過分的抽成外送員他需要有基本報酬 還有透明停權跟送禮契約條件要透明 要有申訴跟救濟的機制要有職災保險跟其他的商業保險補助然後平台呢 這件事情 問題來了平台的這些事情 勞動部一個部會管得了嗎\n312131\t327805\t需不需要速發部幫忙需要交通部速發部一起對那消費爭議搞不好還有消保會對不對那餐廳的爭議搞不好還有經濟部上發對不對好所以最後的結論有沒有結論有結論結論就是各位好好加油吧謝謝謝謝委員謝謝鍾嘉斌委員發言\n","txt":"好主席蔡常委員先進列席的政府機關首長官員會長工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請我們勞動部紅部長還有我們的交通部陳次長抒發部葉次長以及商發署的蘇署長那另外呢金管會保險局各支消費者保護都準備好\n來那個他們慢慢來我們就趕快開始了部長這個部長你知道嗎我們現在有行政院憲法有海覽七法對不對有聽過嗎你知道去年我們行政院有一個打詐四法對不對現在還有一個國安十法\n為什麼一個事情要分成那麼多法什麼原因因為這裡面可能會有一些不同職長的分工對 不同部位的分工所以打造就分到好幾個部會海南也分到好幾個部會好 那我們來看一下我們關心外送員我們關心他的權益那我們來看一下這個概念我很快的講一下其實外送員他其實很像什麼很像我們有線電視系統頻道上的節目透過有線電視系統然後透過線路的傳輸到我們收視戶身上\n但是頻道上是在整合全國性的有線電視系統在整合我們餐廳要把他的餐飲送到消費者身上也是透過一個外送平台做這些資訊的分配派遣外送員 然後送到消費者手上部長 有沒有覺得這個跟有線電視系統一個是吃的 一個是看的很像吧好 我們往下看\n所以我們來看一下糟糕的複雜的來啦單單是餐廳的餐飲要及時的送到消費者身上後面是最重要的是外送員但是你看消費者要付運費消費者跟平台這個運費的收取有消保費\n餐廳也是有它的拆帳也有它的問題但是餐廳是由誰 經濟部管的然後外送平台基本上好像是速發部但是外送平台還有兩個角色一個是類似貨運公司負責送貨一個是類似資訊公司負責金流跟資訊流這裡面又涉及到個資保護然後交通部他管什麼\n管這些道路運輸的這些運價然後外送員的是勞工他的勞動權是勞動部請問勞動部這麼複雜的法律關係你有把握現在委員會有六個委員會的版本民進黨又有黨團版本好像都把主管機關設定在勞動部勞動部承受得了嗎\n確實委員說的沒有錯我們其實能夠主要管的還是在於外送員的勞動權益或勞動關係的權益上面這是我們在權責上面比較能夠cover的主管的部分是的 所以我們看到委員的提案至少民進黨團版我們focus的是什麼外送員的勞動權益所以我們是以外送員權益保障才加上另外一個外送平台的管理是不是這樣所以我想勞動部的權責主要是放在外送員的勞動權益好 我們一下看\n所以說我們看外送員的勞動權益勞動條件要怎麼樣這裡面有中央政府勞動部會希望訂立一個定型化契約全國一體適用但是實質上外送員可不可能從台北跑到屏東去送餐很難嘛\n一定是在各該地方縣政府的轄內他類似像貨運公司一樣去那邊送餐嘛所以呢根據他使用的區域道路其實這些道路所在的範圍還是屬於地方主管機關所以勞動部未來有沒有先開始有這個心理準備未來你訂立的指引之後可能需要跟各地方政府的勞動機關還有他們的路徑機關來協調有沒有\n呃當然因為這個法如果訂定以後其實在很多的執法的部分的權責其實也是會有地方政府會需要地方政府一起來來好好執行好我跟你說我們民進黨的黨團版我們第22條有提到說平台業者他很有可能把這些業務委託給地方的汽車貨運業者來負責這些道路上面對地方的主管機關好往下看\n所以我們來看一下各方的權益保障跟平台管理其實最重要的是明確各部位的分工跨部位的合作才能保障各方權益譬如說外送員要有離線權外送員要有基本的報酬那勞動部訂一份契約但是平台呢他也跟另外的消費者餐廳和外送員他的契約爭議怎麼處理\n還有外送員他也需要去有保險有職災保險這兩個都還是勞動部的權責但是平台他要保存這些紀錄各自保護你看看後面站的人越來越多因為呢這些都跟你後面的各部會有關是不是這樣你們後面都同意把後面同意的點個頭都同意嗎你看問題這麼大好往下看結論來了所以呢目前我們要保障外送員消費者及合作商家的三方權益\n我們顧客呢 他要求的是合理運費商店呢 他要求平台不能過分的抽成外送員他需要有基本報酬 還有透明停權跟送禮契約條件要透明 要有申訴跟救濟的機制要有職災保險跟其他的商業保險補助然後平台呢 這件事情 問題來了平台的這些事情 勞動部一個部會管得了嗎\n需不需要速發部幫忙需要交通部速發部一起對那消費爭議搞不好還有消保會對不對那餐廳的爭議搞不好還有經濟部上發對不對好所以最後的結論有沒有結論有結論結論就是各位好好加油吧謝謝謝謝委員謝謝鍾嘉斌委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:24.451\n好主席蔡常委員先進列席的政府機關首長官員會長工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請我們勞動部紅部長還有我們的交通部陳次長抒發部葉次長以及商發署的蘇署長那另外呢金管會保險局各支消費者保護都準備好\n\n00:26.572 --> 00:41.121\n來那個他們慢慢來我們就趕快開始了部長這個部長你知道嗎我們現在有行政院憲法有海覽七法對不對有聽過嗎你知道去年我們行政院有一個打詐四法對不對現在還有一個國安十法\n\n00:42.081 --> 01:09.429\n為什麼一個事情要分成那麼多法什麼原因因為這裡面可能會有一些不同職長的分工對不同部位的分工所以打造就分到好幾個部會海南也分到好幾個部會好那我們來看一下我們關心外送員我們關心他的權益那我們來看一下這個概念我很快的講一下其實外送員他其實很像什麼很像我們有線電視系統頻道上的節目透過有線電視系統然後透過線路的傳輸到我們收視戶身上\n\n01:10.009 --> 01:31.093\n但是頻道上是在整合全國性的有線電視系統在整合我們餐廳要把他的餐飲送到消費者身上也是透過一個外送平台做這些資訊的分配派遣外送員然後送到消費者手上部長有沒有覺得這個跟有線電視系統一個是吃的一個是看的很像吧好我們往下看\n\n01:31.653 --> 01:47.782\n所以我們來看一下糟糕的複雜的來啦單單是餐廳的餐飲要及時的送到消費者身上後面是最重要的是外送員但是你看消費者要付運費消費者跟平台這個運費的收取有消保費\n\n01:48.903 --> 02:07.945\n餐廳也是有它的拆帳也有它的問題但是餐廳是由誰經濟部管的然後外送平台基本上好像是速發部但是外送平台還有兩個角色一個是類似貨運公司負責送貨一個是類似資訊公司負責金流跟資訊流這裡面又涉及到個資保護然後交通部他管什麼\n\n02:08.686 --> 02:28.425\n管這些道路運輸的這些運價然後外送員的是勞工他的勞動權是勞動部請問勞動部這麼複雜的法律關係你有把握現在委員會有六個委員會的版本民進黨又有黨團版本好像都把主管機關設定在勞動部勞動部承受得了嗎\n\n02:31.101 --> 02:59.513\n確實委員說的沒有錯我們其實能夠主要管的還是在於外送員的勞動權益或勞動關係的權益上面這是我們在權責上面比較能夠cover的主管的部分是的所以我們看到委員的提案至少民進黨團版我們focus的是什麼外送員的勞動權益所以我們是以外送員權益保障才加上另外一個外送平台的管理是不是這樣所以我想勞動部的權責主要是放在外送員的勞動權益好我們一下看\n\n03:00.379 --> 03:15.242\n所以說我們看外送員的勞動權益勞動條件要怎麼樣這裡面有中央政府勞動部會希望訂立一個定型化契約全國一體適用但是實質上外送員可不可能從台北跑到屏東去送餐很難嘛\n\n03:15.743 --> 03:36.168\n一定是在各該地方縣政府的轄內他類似像貨運公司一樣去那邊送餐嘛所以呢根據他使用的區域道路其實這些道路所在的範圍還是屬於地方主管機關所以勞動部未來有沒有先開始有這個心理準備未來你訂立的指引之後可能需要跟各地方政府的勞動機關還有他們的路徑機關來協調有沒有\n\n03:40.030 --> 04:02.690\n呃當然因為這個法如果訂定以後其實在很多的執法的部分的權責其實也是會有地方政府會需要地方政府一起來來好好執行好我跟你說我們民進黨的黨團版我們第22條有提到說平台業者他很有可能把這些業務委託給地方的汽車貨運業者來負責這些道路上面對地方的主管機關好往下看\n\n04:03.371 --> 04:23.761\n所以我們來看一下各方的權益保障跟平台管理其實最重要的是明確各部位的分工跨部位的合作才能保障各方權益譬如說外送員要有離線權外送員要有基本的報酬那勞動部訂一份契約但是平台呢他也跟另外的消費者餐廳和外送員他的契約爭議怎麼處理\n\n04:24.941 --> 04:48.569\n還有外送員他也需要去有保險有職災保險這兩個都還是勞動部的權責但是平台他要保存這些紀錄各自保護你看看後面站的人越來越多因為呢這些都跟你後面的各部會有關是不是這樣你們後面都同意把後面同意的點個頭都同意嗎你看問題這麼大好往下看結論來了所以呢目前我們要保障外送員消費者及合作商家的三方權益\n\n04:49.489 --> 05:10.850\n我們顧客呢他要求的是合理運費商店呢他要求平台不能過分的抽成外送員他需要有基本報酬還有透明停權跟送禮契約條件要透明要有申訴跟救濟的機制要有職災保險跟其他的商業保險補助然後平台呢這件事情問題來了平台的這些事情勞動部一個部會管得了嗎\n\n05:12.131 --> 05:27.805\n需不需要速發部幫忙需要交通部速發部一起對那消費爭議搞不好還有消保會對不對那餐廳的爭議搞不好還有經濟部上發對不對好所以最後的結論有沒有結論有結論結論就是各位好好加油吧謝謝謝謝委員謝謝鍾嘉斌委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":24.451,"text":"好主席蔡常委員先進列席的政府機關首長官員會長工作夥伴記者媒體女士先生有請我們勞動部紅部長還有我們的交通部陳次長抒發部葉次長以及商發署的蘇署長那另外呢金管會保險局各支消費者保護都準備好"},{"start":26.572,"end":41.121,"text":"來那個他們慢慢來我們就趕快開始了部長這個部長你知道嗎我們現在有行政院憲法有海覽七法對不對有聽過嗎你知道去年我們行政院有一個打詐四法對不對現在還有一個國安十法"},{"start":42.081,"end":69.429,"text":"為什麼一個事情要分成那麼多法什麼原因因為這裡面可能會有一些不同職長的分工對 不同部位的分工所以打造就分到好幾個部會海南也分到好幾個部會好 那我們來看一下我們關心外送員我們關心他的權益那我們來看一下這個概念我很快的講一下其實外送員他其實很像什麼很像我們有線電視系統頻道上的節目透過有線電視系統然後透過線路的傳輸到我們收視戶身上"},{"start":70.009,"end":91.093,"text":"但是頻道上是在整合全國性的有線電視系統在整合我們餐廳要把他的餐飲送到消費者身上也是透過一個外送平台做這些資訊的分配派遣外送員 然後送到消費者手上部長 有沒有覺得這個跟有線電視系統一個是吃的 一個是看的很像吧好 我們往下看"},{"start":91.653,"end":107.782,"text":"所以我們來看一下糟糕的複雜的來啦單單是餐廳的餐飲要及時的送到消費者身上後面是最重要的是外送員但是你看消費者要付運費消費者跟平台這個運費的收取有消保費"},{"start":108.903,"end":127.945,"text":"餐廳也是有它的拆帳也有它的問題但是餐廳是由誰 經濟部管的然後外送平台基本上好像是速發部但是外送平台還有兩個角色一個是類似貨運公司負責送貨一個是類似資訊公司負責金流跟資訊流這裡面又涉及到個資保護然後交通部他管什麼"},{"start":128.686,"end":148.425,"text":"管這些道路運輸的這些運價然後外送員的是勞工他的勞動權是勞動部請問勞動部這麼複雜的法律關係你有把握現在委員會有六個委員會的版本民進黨又有黨團版本好像都把主管機關設定在勞動部勞動部承受得了嗎"},{"start":151.101,"end":179.513,"text":"確實委員說的沒有錯我們其實能夠主要管的還是在於外送員的勞動權益或勞動關係的權益上面這是我們在權責上面比較能夠cover的主管的部分是的 所以我們看到委員的提案至少民進黨團版我們focus的是什麼外送員的勞動權益所以我們是以外送員權益保障才加上另外一個外送平台的管理是不是這樣所以我想勞動部的權責主要是放在外送員的勞動權益好 我們一下看"},{"start":180.379,"end":195.242,"text":"所以說我們看外送員的勞動權益勞動條件要怎麼樣這裡面有中央政府勞動部會希望訂立一個定型化契約全國一體適用但是實質上外送員可不可能從台北跑到屏東去送餐很難嘛"},{"start":195.743,"end":216.168,"text":"一定是在各該地方縣政府的轄內他類似像貨運公司一樣去那邊送餐嘛所以呢根據他使用的區域道路其實這些道路所在的範圍還是屬於地方主管機關所以勞動部未來有沒有先開始有這個心理準備未來你訂立的指引之後可能需要跟各地方政府的勞動機關還有他們的路徑機關來協調有沒有"},{"start":220.03,"end":242.69,"text":"呃當然因為這個法如果訂定以後其實在很多的執法的部分的權責其實也是會有地方政府會需要地方政府一起來來好好執行好我跟你說我們民進黨的黨團版我們第22條有提到說平台業者他很有可能把這些業務委託給地方的汽車貨運業者來負責這些道路上面對地方的主管機關好往下看"},{"start":243.371,"end":263.761,"text":"所以我們來看一下各方的權益保障跟平台管理其實最重要的是明確各部位的分工跨部位的合作才能保障各方權益譬如說外送員要有離線權外送員要有基本的報酬那勞動部訂一份契約但是平台呢他也跟另外的消費者餐廳和外送員他的契約爭議怎麼處理"},{"start":264.941,"end":288.569,"text":"還有外送員他也需要去有保險有職災保險這兩個都還是勞動部的權責但是平台他要保存這些紀錄各自保護你看看後面站的人越來越多因為呢這些都跟你後面的各部會有關是不是這樣你們後面都同意把後面同意的點個頭都同意嗎你看問題這麼大好往下看結論來了所以呢目前我們要保障外送員消費者及合作商家的三方權益"},{"start":289.489,"end":310.85,"text":"我們顧客呢 他要求的是合理運費商店呢 他要求平台不能過分的抽成外送員他需要有基本報酬 還有透明停權跟送禮契約條件要透明 要有申訴跟救濟的機制要有職災保險跟其他的商業保險補助然後平台呢 這件事情 問題來了平台的這些事情 勞動部一個部會管得了嗎"},{"start":312.131,"end":327.805,"text":"需不需要速發部幫忙需要交通部速發部一起對那消費爭議搞不好還有消保會對不對那餐廳的爭議搞不好還有經濟部上發對不對好所以最後的結論有沒有結論有結論結論就是各位好好加油吧謝謝謝謝委員謝謝鍾嘉斌委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1124,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（13時19分）主席、在場委員先進、列席政府機關首長及官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請勞動部洪部長、交通部陳次長、數發部葉次長以及商發署蘇署長。另外，金管會保險局、個資、消費者保護相關官員都請準備。"],["洪部長申翰：鍾委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好。部長，你知道嗎？現在行政院院會的法案有海纜七法，對不對？你聽過嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你也知道去年行政院有打詐四法，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在還有國安十法。為什麼一件事情要分那麼多法？什麼原因？"],["洪部長申翰：因為這裡面可能有不同職掌分工。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，不同部會分工，打詐就分成好幾個部會，海纜也分為好多部會。","我們來看一下，我們關心外送員的權益，這個概念我很快地講一下。外送員其實很像有線電視系統，頻道上的節目透過有線電視系統、透過線路傳輸到收視戶，但頻道商由誰整合？是全國性的有線電視系統在整合。餐廳要把餐飲送到消費者身上，也是透過外送平台做資訊的分配、派遣外送員，然後送到消費者手上。部長，有沒有覺得這跟有線電視系統之間，雖然一個是吃的，一個是看的，但很像吧？","所以我們來看一下，糟糕了，複雜的來啦！單單是餐廳餐飲要及時送到消費者身上，背後最重要的是外送員，但是消費者要付運費，而消費者和平台運費的收取關係有消保會主管。餐廳拆帳也有問題，但餐廳歸誰管？是經濟部管的。外送平台基本上好像是數發部主管，但是外送平台有兩個角色，一個類似貨運公司，負責送貨；一個類似資訊公司，負責金流跟資訊流，裡面又涉及個資保護。交通部管什麼？管道路運輸的運價。然後，外送員屬於勞工，勞動權益是勞動部業務。請問勞動部，這麼複雜的法律關係，你有把握處理嗎？現在委員會有6個版本，民進黨也有其黨團版本，好像都把主管機關設定在勞動部，勞動部承受得了嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：確實，委員說的沒有錯，我們能夠管的主要還是在於外送員的勞動權益或勞動關係權益上，這是我們在權責上比較能cover跟主管的部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是的，委員提案與民進黨團版本focus的是什麼？外送員的勞動權益，也就是以外送員權益保障為主，加上另外一個：外送平台的管理，是不是這樣？我想勞動部的權責主要是放在外送員的勞動權益。","外送員的勞動權益跟勞動條件應該怎麼樣？中央政府、勞動部希望制訂定型化契約，全國一體適用，但是在實質上，外送員可不可能從臺北跑到屏東送餐？很難嘛！一定是在各該地方、縣市政府轄內，類似貨運公司在當地送餐，所以根據他使用的區域道路，其實所在範圍還是屬於地方主管機關。勞動部是否已先開始做心理準備，未來訂定指引之後，可能需要跟各地方政府的勞動機關還有路政機關協調？"],["洪部長申翰：當然，這個法訂定以後，其實很多執法權責會需要地方政府一起好好執行。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我跟你說，我們民進黨黨團版第二十二條提到平台業者很可能把這些業務委託給地方汽車貨運業者負責面對地方道路主管機關，所以我們來看看各方權益保障跟平台管理。最重要的其實是明確各部會的分工、跨部會合作，才能保障各方權益。譬如外送員要有離線權，也要有基本報酬，勞動部訂定了定型化契約，那麼平台跟消費者、餐廳、外送員的契約爭議怎麼處理？還有，外送員也需要職災保險，這兩個都還是勞動部的權責，但是平台需要保存這些紀錄，又涉及個資保護。你看，你後面站的人愈來愈多，因為這些都跟你後面的各部會有關，是不是這樣？後面的官員，你們都同意吧？同意的點個頭，都同意嘛！你看，問題這麼大。","結論來了，目前若要保障外送員、消費者及合作商家三方的權益，顧客要求的是合理運費，商店要求平台不能過分抽成，外送員需要有基本報酬、停權跟終止契約條件要透明、要有申訴跟救濟機制、要有職災保險跟其他商業保險的補助。問題來了！關於平台這些事情，勞動部一個部會管得了嗎？需不需要數發部幫忙？"],["洪部長申翰：需要交通部、數發部一起。"],["鍾委員佳濱：由於涉及消費爭議，搞不好還需要消保會。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：餐廳爭議搞不好還涉及經濟部商發署，對不對？好。所以最後結論，有沒有結論？有結論，就是各位好好加油吧！謝謝。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員發言。","請楊曜委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-6","speakers":["廖偉翔","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","王育敏","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","陳菁徽","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","黃國昌","林國成","李坤城","張啓楷","許宇甄","黃捷","鍾佳濱","楊曜","林楚茵","吳思瑤","劉建國","盧縣一","張智倫","林沛祥","涂權吉"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；二、台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送\n平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人\n員權益保障法草案」案；五、委員王鴻薇等20 人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草\n案」案；六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148801_00003"}}}