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\"委\", \"start\": 373.607, \"end\": 373.667, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 373.667, \"end\": 373.727, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 373.727, \"end\": 373.787, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"瑤\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 373.787, \"end\": 373.887, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 373.887, \"end\": 373.907, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,873 --> 00:00:06,516\n謝謝主席主席有請洪聖漢部長請洪部長部長好議員好我雖然也同樣很關心外送員的權益但是我想今天有非常多的委員都有針對這個來做詢答了所以本席問的另外一個問題恐怕也是攸關我們的產業界跟我們所有的這個下一頁\n\n2\n00:00:28,707 --> 00:00:52,166\n產業界跟所有的傳產跟製造業所面臨的台灣現在是不是真的成為了血汗之島呢針對9月24號巨大機械被美國的海關際邊境保護局就是CBP針對它台灣製造的自行車跟零件被發布了戰扣令這件事情今天早上我在國防外交委員會我問了林佳龍部長\n\n3\n00:00:53,487 --> 00:01:11,537\n剛剛我在經紀委員會也問了公民新部長那麼我算是集滿第三顆心就是勞動部因為這個事情發生之後呢我想這件事情回歸到最後大家想問的就是這是個案但這個個案接下來會不會面對他成為台灣不論是傳產或者是\n\n4\n00:01:13,598 --> 00:01:38,205\n科技業在面對美國針對我們在勞權的制度上面的問題的時候未來發生同樣的事情的時候他的SOP會是什麼因為今天我問外交部長的時候我也問了經濟部長那麼到底我們在對外溝通的時候主責單位會是誰而像這樣的一個狀況可以看到川普上台之後他們的所謂CBP\n\n5\n00:01:38,925 --> 00:01:47,247\n很powerful他們很多的事情都是先行之後他執行他的所謂從川普總統再到\n\n6\n00:01:49,606 --> 00:02:17,629\n邊境管制又或者是要跟美國做貿易他所給予的這樣的一個制度他會先進行所謂的戰扣令那麼這樣的一個個案發生之後其實傳產或科技業的其他業者恐怕他也正在看對美輸入輸出東西的時候到底該怎麼做那麼剛剛問了經濟部長跟外交部長之後最後還是回到了就是在勞動法規或者是勞動指引的部分\n\n7\n00:02:18,790 --> 00:02:30,642\n勞動部怎麼樣來面對這個問題跟委員說的確關於強迫勞動跟像這一次針對台灣的公司來進行WRO戰扣令的狀況是非常需要謹慎審慎的來面對\n\n8\n00:02:34,638 --> 00:02:55,489\n雖然美方這一次是針對單一的公司可是我們並沒有以個案來視之我們並沒有個案來看待這的確會需要我們包括跟經濟部我們會需要來協助我們的產業做一個更普遍性的檢視所以我們接下來會跟經濟部一起來規劃一個輔導跟的機制也包括相對應的指引\n\n9\n00:02:57,830 --> 00:03:24,646\n因為現在這個勞動人權的問題已經變成是企業經營上的經濟風險所以我們要從風險的角度來協助企業怎麼樣子辨識這個風險辨識風險下才能夠管理這個風險或降低這個風險我們的思考是這樣當然在這個輔導過程裡面我們也會來檢視我們的法規是不是有調整的需要因為確實在後面後面也會有需要面對的法規上面的問題\n\n10\n00:03:25,586 --> 00:03:38,991\n但因為台灣的產業當然各種樣態都有所以尤其是我們中小企業多所以我們可能也會需要一些調適的時間可是這部分的確我們會盡力的積極的來跟經濟部一起來協助我們的廠商\n\n11\n00:03:39,639 --> 00:03:56,249\n好我很開心喔就聽到部長其實應該有個想法跟方向了我會特別來質詢這個部分是過去如果台灣是做代工那麼你做人家的代工的時候主要下單的這樣的一個公司或是跨國企業他會有他了解跟遵循的法規他會自己來查場\n\n12\n00:03:57,350 --> 00:04:02,412\n也就是說你在勞動條件上面或者是在勞權的部分必須要遵守這個所謂下單的公司他們怕他們被制裁或者是被裁罰他會有SOP在這裡可是當我們現在都是幫自己打工幫自己來做品牌的時候就會面對這些標準上面的模糊地帶那麼如果部長跟經濟部這邊有溝通的話那會是一個好的方向因為我相信我們也不希望因為這樣的一個個案接下來包括我們跟美方的談判\n\n13\n00:04:26,482 --> 00:04:49,503\n又或者是像科技業科技業其實他也蠻血汗的啦這個我想大家也騙不了人包括這些工程師等等也都是工時等等會受到質疑所以這個部分我也希望不只是傳產包括科技業是不是勞動部這裡都要一併來做了解跟一併把它納入來做制度上面設定的一個就是產業\n\n14\n00:04:51,552 --> 00:05:18,551\n我覺得我們需要讓我們的產業知道因為國際上面確實越來越重視強迫勞動的問題尤其是針對移工的一些待遇的問題所以我們的產業也必須了解到這件事情他進而才會意識到這真的沒有做好的話他會成為一個風險所以我覺得從風險角度管理然後做出實質的改善我覺得這是最重要的事情那我們要跟產業我們願意幫助產用最大力氣來幫助產業但是的確時間上面我們會需要盡快來\n\n15\n00:05:19,412 --> 00:05:42,154\n好因為主席你站起來我只問最後一個問題那就是因為這又是一樣跨部會的事情有外交部因為然後又有勞動部然後也可能有經濟部那麼這個部分的話會是勞動部主責嗎然後你們在修這個剛剛您所講的這個指引的部分有沒有一個dayline要多久或者是說你們面對這樣的一個問題之後你們打算起一個什麼樣的跨部會的協商那都要多少時間\n\n16\n00:05:43,303 --> 00:06:10,967\n這個事情我們會跟經濟部合作因為經濟部那邊會有一個盡職調查的相關相對應的推動那勞動部這邊我們也對於強迫勞動跟包括移工上面的一些管理的機制然後仲介的管理的部分我們也會來協助所以這裡面會有各有各的權責可是我們會用合作的方式來盡快推動好如果可以的話我希望這個有更進一步的訊息的時候能夠跟本席以及我們衛環委員會的衛環委員會的所有的委員來做報告好不好\n\n17\n00:06:13,286 --> 00:06:13,907\n謝謝林楚瑩委員發言請吳思瑤委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3873\t6516\t謝謝主席 主席有請洪聖漢部長請洪部長部長好 議員好我雖然也同樣很關心外送員的權益但是我想今天有非常多的委員都有針對這個來做詢答了所以本席問的另外一個問題恐怕也是攸關我們的產業界跟我們所有的這個 下一頁\n28707\t52166\t產業界跟所有的傳產跟製造業所面臨的台灣現在是不是真的成為了血汗之島呢針對9月24號巨大機械被美國的海關際邊境保護局就是CBP針對它台灣製造的自行車跟零件被發布了戰扣令這件事情今天早上我在國防外交委員會我問了林佳龍部長\n53487\t71537\t剛剛我在經紀委員會也問了公民新部長那麼我算是集滿第三顆心就是勞動部因為這個事情發生之後呢我想這件事情回歸到最後大家想問的就是這是個案但這個個案接下來會不會面對他成為台灣不論是傳產或者是\n73598\t98205\t科技業在面對美國針對我們在勞權的制度上面的問題的時候未來發生同樣的事情的時候他的SOP會是什麼因為今天我問外交部長的時候我也問了經濟部長那麼到底我們在對外溝通的時候主責單位會是誰而像這樣的一個狀況可以看到川普上台之後他們的所謂CBP\n98925\t107247\t很powerful他們很多的事情都是先行之後他執行他的所謂從川普總統再到\n109606\t137629\t邊境管制又或者是要跟美國做貿易他所給予的這樣的一個制度他會先進行所謂的戰扣令那麼這樣的一個個案發生之後其實傳產或科技業的其他業者恐怕他也正在看對美輸入輸出東西的時候到底該怎麼做那麼剛剛問了經濟部長跟外交部長之後最後還是回到了就是在勞動法規或者是勞動指引的部分\n138790\t150642\t勞動部怎麼樣來面對這個問題跟委員說的確關於強迫勞動跟像這一次針對台灣的公司來進行WRO戰扣令的狀況是非常需要謹慎審慎的來面對\n154638\t175489\t雖然美方這一次是針對單一的公司可是我們並沒有以個案來視之我們並沒有個案來看待這的確會需要我們包括跟經濟部我們會需要來協助我們的產業做一個更普遍性的檢視所以我們接下來會跟經濟部一起來規劃一個輔導跟的機制也包括相對應的指引\n177830\t204646\t因為現在這個勞動人權的問題已經變成是企業經營上的經濟風險所以我們要從風險的角度來協助企業怎麼樣子辨識這個風險辨識風險下才能夠管理這個風險或降低這個風險我們的思考是這樣當然在這個輔導過程裡面我們也會來檢視我們的法規是不是有調整的需要因為確實在後面後面也會有需要面對的法規上面的問題\n205586\t218991\t但因為台灣的產業當然各種樣態都有所以尤其是我們中小企業多所以我們可能也會需要一些調適的時間可是這部分的確我們會盡力的積極的來跟經濟部一起來協助我們的廠商\n219639\t236249\t好我很開心喔就聽到部長其實應該有個想法跟方向了我會特別來質詢這個部分是過去如果台灣是做代工那麼你做人家的代工的時候主要下單的這樣的一個公司或是跨國企業他會有他了解跟遵循的法規他會自己來查場\n237350\t242412\t也就是說你在勞動條件上面或者是在勞權的部分必須要遵守這個所謂下單的公司他們怕他們被制裁或者是被裁罰他會有SOP在這裡可是當我們現在都是幫自己打工幫自己來做品牌的時候就會面對這些標準上面的模糊地帶那麼如果部長跟經濟部這邊有溝通的話那會是一個好的方向因為我相信我們也不希望因為這樣的一個個案接下來包括我們跟美方的談判\n266482\t289503\t又或者是像科技業科技業其實他也蠻血汗的啦這個我想大家也騙不了人包括這些工程師等等也都是工時等等會受到質疑所以這個部分我也希望不只是傳產包括科技業是不是勞動部這裡都要一併來做了解跟一併把它納入來做制度上面設定的一個就是產業\n291552\t318551\t我覺得我們需要讓我們的產業知道因為國際上面確實越來越重視強迫勞動的問題尤其是針對移工的一些待遇的問題所以我們的產業也必須了解到這件事情他進而才會意識到這真的沒有做好的話他會成為一個風險所以我覺得從風險角度管理然後做出實質的改善我覺得這是最重要的事情那我們要跟產業我們願意幫助產用最大力氣來幫助產業但是的確時間上面我們會需要盡快來\n319412\t342154\t好因為主席你站起來我只問最後一個問題那就是因為這又是一樣跨部會的事情有外交部因為然後又有勞動部然後也可能有經濟部那麼這個部分的話會是勞動部主責嗎然後你們在修這個剛剛您所講的這個指引的部分有沒有一個day line要多久或者是說你們面對這樣的一個問題之後你們打算起一個什麼樣的跨部會的協商那都要多少時間\n343303\t370967\t這個事情我們會跟經濟部合作因為經濟部那邊會有一個盡職調查的相關相對應的推動那勞動部這邊我們也對於強迫勞動跟包括移工上面的一些管理的機制然後仲介的管理的部分我們也會來協助所以這裡面會有各有各的權責可是我們會用合作的方式來盡快推動好如果可以的話我希望這個有更進一步的訊息的時候能夠跟本席以及我們衛環委員會的衛環委員會的所有的委員來做報告好不好\n373286\t373907\t謝謝林楚瑩委員發言請吳思瑤委員發言\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請洪聖漢部長請洪部長部長好 議員好我雖然也同樣很關心外送員的權益但是我想今天有非常多的委員都有針對這個來做詢答了所以本席問的另外一個問題恐怕也是攸關我們的產業界跟我們所有的這個 下一頁\n產業界跟所有的傳產跟製造業所面臨的台灣現在是不是真的成為了血汗之島呢針對9月24號巨大機械被美國的海關際邊境保護局就是CBP針對它台灣製造的自行車跟零件被發布了戰扣令這件事情今天早上我在國防外交委員會我問了林佳龍部長\n剛剛我在經紀委員會也問了公民新部長那麼我算是集滿第三顆心就是勞動部因為這個事情發生之後呢我想這件事情回歸到最後大家想問的就是這是個案但這個個案接下來會不會面對他成為台灣不論是傳產或者是\n科技業在面對美國針對我們在勞權的制度上面的問題的時候未來發生同樣的事情的時候他的SOP會是什麼因為今天我問外交部長的時候我也問了經濟部長那麼到底我們在對外溝通的時候主責單位會是誰而像這樣的一個狀況可以看到川普上台之後他們的所謂CBP\n很powerful他們很多的事情都是先行之後他執行他的所謂從川普總統再到\n邊境管制又或者是要跟美國做貿易他所給予的這樣的一個制度他會先進行所謂的戰扣令那麼這樣的一個個案發生之後其實傳產或科技業的其他業者恐怕他也正在看對美輸入輸出東西的時候到底該怎麼做那麼剛剛問了經濟部長跟外交部長之後最後還是回到了就是在勞動法規或者是勞動指引的部分\n勞動部怎麼樣來面對這個問題跟委員說的確關於強迫勞動跟像這一次針對台灣的公司來進行WRO戰扣令的狀況是非常需要謹慎審慎的來面對\n雖然美方這一次是針對單一的公司可是我們並沒有以個案來視之我們並沒有個案來看待這的確會需要我們包括跟經濟部我們會需要來協助我們的產業做一個更普遍性的檢視所以我們接下來會跟經濟部一起來規劃一個輔導跟的機制也包括相對應的指引\n因為現在這個勞動人權的問題已經變成是企業經營上的經濟風險所以我們要從風險的角度來協助企業怎麼樣子辨識這個風險辨識風險下才能夠管理這個風險或降低這個風險我們的思考是這樣當然在這個輔導過程裡面我們也會來檢視我們的法規是不是有調整的需要因為確實在後面後面也會有需要面對的法規上面的問題\n但因為台灣的產業當然各種樣態都有所以尤其是我們中小企業多所以我們可能也會需要一些調適的時間可是這部分的確我們會盡力的積極的來跟經濟部一起來協助我們的廠商\n好我很開心喔就聽到部長其實應該有個想法跟方向了我會特別來質詢這個部分是過去如果台灣是做代工那麼你做人家的代工的時候主要下單的這樣的一個公司或是跨國企業他會有他了解跟遵循的法規他會自己來查場\n也就是說你在勞動條件上面或者是在勞權的部分必須要遵守這個所謂下單的公司他們怕他們被制裁或者是被裁罰他會有SOP在這裡可是當我們現在都是幫自己打工幫自己來做品牌的時候就會面對這些標準上面的模糊地帶那麼如果部長跟經濟部這邊有溝通的話那會是一個好的方向因為我相信我們也不希望因為這樣的一個個案接下來包括我們跟美方的談判\n又或者是像科技業科技業其實他也蠻血汗的啦這個我想大家也騙不了人包括這些工程師等等也都是工時等等會受到質疑所以這個部分我也希望不只是傳產包括科技業是不是勞動部這裡都要一併來做了解跟一併把它納入來做制度上面設定的一個就是產業\n我覺得我們需要讓我們的產業知道因為國際上面確實越來越重視強迫勞動的問題尤其是針對移工的一些待遇的問題所以我們的產業也必須了解到這件事情他進而才會意識到這真的沒有做好的話他會成為一個風險所以我覺得從風險角度管理然後做出實質的改善我覺得這是最重要的事情那我們要跟產業我們願意幫助產用最大力氣來幫助產業但是的確時間上面我們會需要盡快來\n好因為主席你站起來我只問最後一個問題那就是因為這又是一樣跨部會的事情有外交部因為然後又有勞動部然後也可能有經濟部那麼這個部分的話會是勞動部主責嗎然後你們在修這個剛剛您所講的這個指引的部分有沒有一個day line要多久或者是說你們面對這樣的一個問題之後你們打算起一個什麼樣的跨部會的協商那都要多少時間\n這個事情我們會跟經濟部合作因為經濟部那邊會有一個盡職調查的相關相對應的推動那勞動部這邊我們也對於強迫勞動跟包括移工上面的一些管理的機制然後仲介的管理的部分我們也會來協助所以這裡面會有各有各的權責可是我們會用合作的方式來盡快推動好如果可以的話我希望這個有更進一步的訊息的時候能夠跟本席以及我們衛環委員會的衛環委員會的所有的委員來做報告好不好\n謝謝林楚瑩委員發言請吳思瑤委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.873 --> 00:06.516\n謝謝主席主席有請洪聖漢部長請洪部長部長好議員好我雖然也同樣很關心外送員的權益但是我想今天有非常多的委員都有針對這個來做詢答了所以本席問的另外一個問題恐怕也是攸關我們的產業界跟我們所有的這個下一頁\n\n00:28.707 --> 00:52.166\n產業界跟所有的傳產跟製造業所面臨的台灣現在是不是真的成為了血汗之島呢針對9月24號巨大機械被美國的海關際邊境保護局就是CBP針對它台灣製造的自行車跟零件被發布了戰扣令這件事情今天早上我在國防外交委員會我問了林佳龍部長\n\n00:53.487 --> 01:11.537\n剛剛我在經紀委員會也問了公民新部長那麼我算是集滿第三顆心就是勞動部因為這個事情發生之後呢我想這件事情回歸到最後大家想問的就是這是個案但這個個案接下來會不會面對他成為台灣不論是傳產或者是\n\n01:13.598 --> 01:38.205\n科技業在面對美國針對我們在勞權的制度上面的問題的時候未來發生同樣的事情的時候他的SOP會是什麼因為今天我問外交部長的時候我也問了經濟部長那麼到底我們在對外溝通的時候主責單位會是誰而像這樣的一個狀況可以看到川普上台之後他們的所謂CBP\n\n01:38.925 --> 01:47.247\n很powerful他們很多的事情都是先行之後他執行他的所謂從川普總統再到\n\n01:49.606 --> 02:17.629\n邊境管制又或者是要跟美國做貿易他所給予的這樣的一個制度他會先進行所謂的戰扣令那麼這樣的一個個案發生之後其實傳產或科技業的其他業者恐怕他也正在看對美輸入輸出東西的時候到底該怎麼做那麼剛剛問了經濟部長跟外交部長之後最後還是回到了就是在勞動法規或者是勞動指引的部分\n\n02:18.790 --> 02:30.642\n勞動部怎麼樣來面對這個問題跟委員說的確關於強迫勞動跟像這一次針對台灣的公司來進行WRO戰扣令的狀況是非常需要謹慎審慎的來面對\n\n02:34.638 --> 02:55.489\n雖然美方這一次是針對單一的公司可是我們並沒有以個案來視之我們並沒有個案來看待這的確會需要我們包括跟經濟部我們會需要來協助我們的產業做一個更普遍性的檢視所以我們接下來會跟經濟部一起來規劃一個輔導跟的機制也包括相對應的指引\n\n02:57.830 --> 03:24.646\n因為現在這個勞動人權的問題已經變成是企業經營上的經濟風險所以我們要從風險的角度來協助企業怎麼樣子辨識這個風險辨識風險下才能夠管理這個風險或降低這個風險我們的思考是這樣當然在這個輔導過程裡面我們也會來檢視我們的法規是不是有調整的需要因為確實在後面後面也會有需要面對的法規上面的問題\n\n03:25.586 --> 03:38.991\n但因為台灣的產業當然各種樣態都有所以尤其是我們中小企業多所以我們可能也會需要一些調適的時間可是這部分的確我們會盡力的積極的來跟經濟部一起來協助我們的廠商\n\n03:39.639 --> 03:56.249\n好我很開心喔就聽到部長其實應該有個想法跟方向了我會特別來質詢這個部分是過去如果台灣是做代工那麼你做人家的代工的時候主要下單的這樣的一個公司或是跨國企業他會有他了解跟遵循的法規他會自己來查場\n\n03:57.350 --> 04:02.412\n也就是說你在勞動條件上面或者是在勞權的部分必須要遵守這個所謂下單的公司他們怕他們被制裁或者是被裁罰他會有SOP在這裡可是當我們現在都是幫自己打工幫自己來做品牌的時候就會面對這些標準上面的模糊地帶那麼如果部長跟經濟部這邊有溝通的話那會是一個好的方向因為我相信我們也不希望因為這樣的一個個案接下來包括我們跟美方的談判\n\n04:26.482 --> 04:49.503\n又或者是像科技業科技業其實他也蠻血汗的啦這個我想大家也騙不了人包括這些工程師等等也都是工時等等會受到質疑所以這個部分我也希望不只是傳產包括科技業是不是勞動部這裡都要一併來做了解跟一併把它納入來做制度上面設定的一個就是產業\n\n04:51.552 --> 05:18.551\n我覺得我們需要讓我們的產業知道因為國際上面確實越來越重視強迫勞動的問題尤其是針對移工的一些待遇的問題所以我們的產業也必須了解到這件事情他進而才會意識到這真的沒有做好的話他會成為一個風險所以我覺得從風險角度管理然後做出實質的改善我覺得這是最重要的事情那我們要跟產業我們願意幫助產用最大力氣來幫助產業但是的確時間上面我們會需要盡快來\n\n05:19.412 --> 05:42.154\n好因為主席你站起來我只問最後一個問題那就是因為這又是一樣跨部會的事情有外交部因為然後又有勞動部然後也可能有經濟部那麼這個部分的話會是勞動部主責嗎然後你們在修這個剛剛您所講的這個指引的部分有沒有一個dayline要多久或者是說你們面對這樣的一個問題之後你們打算起一個什麼樣的跨部會的協商那都要多少時間\n\n05:43.303 --> 06:10.967\n這個事情我們會跟經濟部合作因為經濟部那邊會有一個盡職調查的相關相對應的推動那勞動部這邊我們也對於強迫勞動跟包括移工上面的一些管理的機制然後仲介的管理的部分我們也會來協助所以這裡面會有各有各的權責可是我們會用合作的方式來盡快推動好如果可以的話我希望這個有更進一步的訊息的時候能夠跟本席以及我們衛環委員會的衛環委員會的所有的委員來做報告好不好\n\n06:13.286 --> 06:13.907\n謝謝林楚瑩委員發言請吳思瑤委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.873,"end":6.516,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請洪聖漢部長請洪部長部長好 議員好我雖然也同樣很關心外送員的權益但是我想今天有非常多的委員都有針對這個來做詢答了所以本席問的另外一個問題恐怕也是攸關我們的產業界跟我們所有的這個 下一頁"},{"start":28.707,"end":52.166,"text":"產業界跟所有的傳產跟製造業所面臨的台灣現在是不是真的成為了血汗之島呢針對9月24號巨大機械被美國的海關際邊境保護局就是CBP針對它台灣製造的自行車跟零件被發布了戰扣令這件事情今天早上我在國防外交委員會我問了林佳龍部長"},{"start":53.487,"end":71.537,"text":"剛剛我在經紀委員會也問了公民新部長那麼我算是集滿第三顆心就是勞動部因為這個事情發生之後呢我想這件事情回歸到最後大家想問的就是這是個案但這個個案接下來會不會面對他成為台灣不論是傳產或者是"},{"start":73.598,"end":98.205,"text":"科技業在面對美國針對我們在勞權的制度上面的問題的時候未來發生同樣的事情的時候他的SOP會是什麼因為今天我問外交部長的時候我也問了經濟部長那麼到底我們在對外溝通的時候主責單位會是誰而像這樣的一個狀況可以看到川普上台之後他們的所謂CBP"},{"start":98.925,"end":107.247,"text":"很powerful他們很多的事情都是先行之後他執行他的所謂從川普總統再到"},{"start":109.606,"end":137.629,"text":"邊境管制又或者是要跟美國做貿易他所給予的這樣的一個制度他會先進行所謂的戰扣令那麼這樣的一個個案發生之後其實傳產或科技業的其他業者恐怕他也正在看對美輸入輸出東西的時候到底該怎麼做那麼剛剛問了經濟部長跟外交部長之後最後還是回到了就是在勞動法規或者是勞動指引的部分"},{"start":138.79,"end":150.642,"text":"勞動部怎麼樣來面對這個問題跟委員說的確關於強迫勞動跟像這一次針對台灣的公司來進行WRO戰扣令的狀況是非常需要謹慎審慎的來面對"},{"start":154.638,"end":175.489,"text":"雖然美方這一次是針對單一的公司可是我們並沒有以個案來視之我們並沒有個案來看待這的確會需要我們包括跟經濟部我們會需要來協助我們的產業做一個更普遍性的檢視所以我們接下來會跟經濟部一起來規劃一個輔導跟的機制也包括相對應的指引"},{"start":177.83,"end":204.646,"text":"因為現在這個勞動人權的問題已經變成是企業經營上的經濟風險所以我們要從風險的角度來協助企業怎麼樣子辨識這個風險辨識風險下才能夠管理這個風險或降低這個風險我們的思考是這樣當然在這個輔導過程裡面我們也會來檢視我們的法規是不是有調整的需要因為確實在後面後面也會有需要面對的法規上面的問題"},{"start":205.586,"end":218.991,"text":"但因為台灣的產業當然各種樣態都有所以尤其是我們中小企業多所以我們可能也會需要一些調適的時間可是這部分的確我們會盡力的積極的來跟經濟部一起來協助我們的廠商"},{"start":219.639,"end":236.249,"text":"好我很開心喔就聽到部長其實應該有個想法跟方向了我會特別來質詢這個部分是過去如果台灣是做代工那麼你做人家的代工的時候主要下單的這樣的一個公司或是跨國企業他會有他了解跟遵循的法規他會自己來查場"},{"start":237.35,"end":242.412,"text":"也就是說你在勞動條件上面或者是在勞權的部分必須要遵守這個所謂下單的公司他們怕他們被制裁或者是被裁罰他會有SOP在這裡可是當我們現在都是幫自己打工幫自己來做品牌的時候就會面對這些標準上面的模糊地帶那麼如果部長跟經濟部這邊有溝通的話那會是一個好的方向因為我相信我們也不希望因為這樣的一個個案接下來包括我們跟美方的談判"},{"start":266.482,"end":289.503,"text":"又或者是像科技業科技業其實他也蠻血汗的啦這個我想大家也騙不了人包括這些工程師等等也都是工時等等會受到質疑所以這個部分我也希望不只是傳產包括科技業是不是勞動部這裡都要一併來做了解跟一併把它納入來做制度上面設定的一個就是產業"},{"start":291.552,"end":318.551,"text":"我覺得我們需要讓我們的產業知道因為國際上面確實越來越重視強迫勞動的問題尤其是針對移工的一些待遇的問題所以我們的產業也必須了解到這件事情他進而才會意識到這真的沒有做好的話他會成為一個風險所以我覺得從風險角度管理然後做出實質的改善我覺得這是最重要的事情那我們要跟產業我們願意幫助產用最大力氣來幫助產業但是的確時間上面我們會需要盡快來"},{"start":319.412,"end":342.154,"text":"好因為主席你站起來我只問最後一個問題那就是因為這又是一樣跨部會的事情有外交部因為然後又有勞動部然後也可能有經濟部那麼這個部分的話會是勞動部主責嗎然後你們在修這個剛剛您所講的這個指引的部分有沒有一個day line要多久或者是說你們面對這樣的一個問題之後你們打算起一個什麼樣的跨部會的協商那都要多少時間"},{"start":343.303,"end":370.967,"text":"這個事情我們會跟經濟部合作因為經濟部那邊會有一個盡職調查的相關相對應的推動那勞動部這邊我們也對於強迫勞動跟包括移工上面的一些管理的機制然後仲介的管理的部分我們也會來協助所以這裡面會有各有各的權責可是我們會用合作的方式來盡快推動好如果可以的話我希望這個有更進一步的訊息的時候能夠跟本席以及我們衛環委員會的衛環委員會的所有的委員來做報告好不好"},{"start":373.286,"end":373.907,"text":"謝謝林楚瑩委員發言請吳思瑤委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1234,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（13時39分）謝謝主席，有請洪申翰部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["林委員楚茵：部長好。"],["洪部長申翰：林委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：我雖然同樣也很關心外送員的權益，但是今天已經有非常多委員就這個議題提出詢答，所以本席要問另外一個問題，恐怕也是攸關我們的傳產業及製造業所面臨的狀況，臺灣現在是不是真的成為了血汗之島呢？關於9月24日巨大機械被美國海關及邊境保護局CBP針對臺灣製造的自行車及零件發布暫扣令的這件事情，今天早上我在國防外交委員會問了林佳龍部長，剛剛我在經濟委員會也問了龔明鑫部長，現在算是集滿第三顆星要詢問勞動部，在這件事情發生之後，我認為大家想問，雖然這是個案，但在這個個案之後，未來美國對於臺灣傳產或科技業在勞權制度上發生同樣事情時的SOP會是什麼？今天我問了外交部長、也問了經濟部長，到底我們在對外溝通時的主責單位會是誰？我們可以看到在川普上台之後，他們的CBP很powerful，無論是執行川普總統的政策、邊境管制、或是與美國貿易所給予的制度，針對許多事情都會先進行所謂的暫扣令。在這樣的一個個案發生之後，其實傳產或科技業的業者恐怕也正在看對美輸出輸入貨物時到底該怎麼做。剛剛問了經濟部長及外交部長，最後還是回到了勞動法規或勞動指引的部分，勞動部要如何面對這個問題？"],["洪部長申翰：向委員說明，關於強迫勞動以及美方這次針對臺灣的公司進行WRO暫扣令的狀況確實是非常需要審慎的面對，雖然美方這次是針對單一的公司，但是我們並沒有以個案視之、我們並沒有以個案看待，包括經濟部在內，我們需要協助我們的產業做一個更普遍性的檢視，所以我們接下來會與經濟部一起規劃輔導的機制，也包括相對應的指引。因為現在勞動人權的問題已經變成企業經營上的經濟風險，所以我們要從風險的角度協助企業如何辨識這個風險，在辨識風險之下才能夠管理這個風險或降低這個風險，我們的思考就是如此。但是在這個輔導過程中，我們也會檢視我們的法規是不是有調整的需要，因為後面確實也需要面對法規上的問題。不過，臺灣的產業有各種的樣態，尤其是我們的中小企業很多，所以我們可能也需要一些調適的時間，針對這個部分，我們會與經濟部一起積極的協助我們的廠商。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我很開心聽到部長已經有想法及方向了。我之所以會特別質詢這個部分，因為臺灣過去做的是代工，主要的下單公司或跨國企業，它會有它了解及遵循的法規，所以它會自己來查廠，也就是說，在勞動條件上或勞權的部分必須遵守下單公司的規定，因為它怕會被制裁或裁罰，所以在這裡會有SOP，但是當我們現在都是幫自己打工、幫自己做品牌的時候就會面對這些標準上的模糊地帶。如果部長與經濟部已經做過溝通的話，那麼就會是一個好的方向，我相信我們也不希望因為這樣的一個個案，影響接下來包括我們與美方的談判。其實科技業是滿血汗的，這個也騙不了人，包括工程師在內的工時等等也都會受到質疑，因此，針對這個部分，不只是傳產，也包括科技業，勞動部是不是也要一併了解及納入訂定制度的產業？"],["洪部長申翰：我覺得需要讓我們的產業知道，因為國際上確實越來越重視強迫勞動的問題，尤其是針對移工的一些待遇問題，所以我們的產業也必須了解這件事情，進而才會意識到沒做好就真的會成為一個風險，所以我認為從風險的角度去管理，做出實質的改善，這是最重要的事情。我們願意用最大的力氣來幫助產業，但在時間上需要盡快去做。"],["林委員楚茵：因為主席已經站起來了，所以我只問最後一個問題，同樣是跨部會的事情，包括外交部、勞動部，可能也有經濟部，這個部分會是勞動部主責嗎？關於你剛剛說要修的指引有沒有一個deadline？要多久？或是在面對這樣的問題之後，你們打算起一個什麼樣的跨部會協商，大概需要多少時間？"],["洪部長申翰：針對這件事情，我們會與經濟部合作，因為經濟部那邊會有一個淨值調查的相對應推動，而勞動部這邊會針對強迫勞動、移工管理的機制及仲介管理的部分給予協助，所以在這當中各有各的權責，但是我們會以合作的方式盡快推動。"],["林委員楚茵：好，如果可以的話，我希望有更進一步的訊息時，能夠向本席及我們衛環委員會的所有委員進行報告，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝林楚茵委員發言。","請吳思瑤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-6","speakers":["廖偉翔","洪孟楷","陳昭姿","羅廷瑋","王育敏","王鴻薇","楊瓊瓔","陳菁徽","蘇清泉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","林月琴","王正旭","林淑芬","陳瑩","黃國昌","林國成","李坤城","張啓楷","許宇甄","黃捷","鍾佳濱","楊曜","林楚茵","吳思瑤","劉建國","盧縣一","張智倫","林沛祥","涂權吉"],"page_start":111,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；二、台灣民眾\n黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；三、委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送\n平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案；四、委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人\n員權益保障法草案」案；五、委員王鴻薇等20 人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草\n案」案；六、委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案【僅詢答】","agenda_id":"1148801_00003"}}}