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00:01:12,409\n我想我們就這些任意拼湊的這些相關的資料我們第一個還是要說明這個是屬於中共認知作戰的一部分當然啦產生一種心理規則所以我們的部分我們會要求這些這個\n\n5\n00:01:17,461 --> 00:01:41,590\n同仁在這個社群媒體上面在從事任何相關的這些發布的時候不要做任何部長堵上有兩個洞一個就是說他當然還是撈一些資料有的是從社群有的是從個人的一些資料這個是過去已經發生的\n\n6\n00:01:42,310 --> 00:01:51,630\n那在未來我們對於機敏單位我們的軍事官兵他的身份的保密的強化你們有沒有準備備案出來了\n\n7\n00:01:52,076 --> 00:02:17,978\n對現在就是會進行相關的一些進一步的保密作為包括研議利用運用化名的這個等等對就是說我們不管就機敏單位我們自己知道啦當然我們不能全軍都用化名那等於沒有化名一樣嘛所以哪些單位要用化名來保護他的身份那我還是有個建議如果他在為國效力保護我們國家的情形下\n\n8\n00:02:19,259 --> 00:02:41,066\n這些軍事官兵也是我們的弟兄我們應該要保護他們所以他如果遭遇到類似的情形不管有或沒有這個對對岸準不準我們不說對於相關的保護還有如果遭致損失應該比照軍情人員給予相當的補貼我不知道我們國防部現在有沒有進行這樣的作業或者有沒有這個打算\n\n9\n00:02:42,393 --> 00:03:07,119\n我們會在第一時間對這些單位及官兵給予關懷輔導然後並且進一步採取適當的保護措施我舉個例子史順文史中將他現在是局長他被點名了那他本身也許是資安專家他退下來之後呢他找工作開始遇到困難或者他在旅行的時候我那天問國安局我們不是Interpol的會員中國是\n\n10\n00:03:10,322 --> 00:03:36,816\n他把這個丟到裡面的黃色通緝名單紅色通緝名單的時候在旅行上會導致一些不便利還有一些風險那我們當然用化名來處理也是另外一種不便利他的資歷沒辦法去累積我的意思說就我們相關機敏工作人員他為國家犧牲付出那我們比照我剛才講軍情單位或者勤工相關單位有沒有適當的補貼的計畫有沒有這個打算\n\n11\n00:03:40,393 --> 00:03:53,668\n因為這些人員我覺得他們發布的有點狀況不太一樣因為有自動電軍也有這個星戰大隊對星戰大隊自動電軍是應該是比照情報機關\n\n12\n00:03:55,467 --> 00:04:13,538\n那可能有相關的這些法制可以援引作為一個依據那新戰大隊的部分呢他並不是同情報機關我這邊我們今天沒有說要答案啦甚至有答案我們未必要在這邊揭露我建議部長跟相關單位去研議一下\n\n13\n00:04:14,338 --> 00:04:29,623\n如果這樣的情形它屬於勤工法規定的單位我們有沒有什麼適當的救濟或者補貼計畫那對於非勤工法的單位我們有沒有什麼樣的打算至少讓弟兄知道我在這個國軍的大家庭裡面為國效力\n\n14\n00:04:31,377 --> 00:04:57,535\n部隊有考慮到我考慮到我面對的風險那我這一個部分我希望我們國防部如果有這樣的方案的話適當的方式讓委員會知道那我們接到一些部隊一些想法反應的時候也可以幫你們做說明因為事實上公布的有很多其實不是現役的人員並不是現役但他因為他現役時候的情形如果遭致損失我認為還是要給予關懷\n\n15\n00:04:59,448 --> 00:05:22,927\n他不是因為他自己的事嘛他是因為幫國家效力遭遇到這樣的情形我們適度的關懷關懷的方案本席間沒有要求說一定要怎麼樣那你要有個方案出來讓他知道部隊有看到我這一塊這樣因為離退的人員將來回來也是我們的戰力啊他還沒有整個被除役嘛是我們會來研議因為部長你本身也從國安會秘書長到國防部\n\n16\n00:05:24,857 --> 00:05:45,194\n針對中國解放軍的這些動作我們有沒有一些類似的制裁的反制美國做過美國把他們的軍備局局長他們的名詞跟我們不一樣美國把軍備局局長的海外資產還有他的遷徙旅遊列為制裁對象我們國防部有沒有考慮\n\n17\n00:05:47,728 --> 00:06:08,908\n我想就這個部分應該如果要討論這件事情的話我覺得應該是有國安會來協調因為中國在公布這件事情的時候據我了解也不是國防部在發布他是用發言單位他在做星戰認知作戰國務院還有公安局\n\n18\n00:06:11,009 --> 00:06:38,749\n他是用發布通緝的方式他有他政治目的他把他內政化那美國曾經就中國幾個軍備相關的單位進行制裁那我不是說我們要完全這樣做我是說思考一下跟盟友特別是美國這邊來思考針對中國解放軍威脅我們國家的安全傷害區域安全的情形下大家可以合作讓這樣子的人\n\n19\n00:06:41,371 --> 00:07:04,148\n這些賊要抓賊頭嘛把他點一下制裁一下因為根據中國自己的統計資料他們的高官貴人海外藏的資產跟親屬是一大堆啦這個我是給部長建議這當然可以到國安會去討論所以有關這個相關單位資通監軍軍情局等等這當然是一個認知作戰\n\n20\n00:07:04,928 --> 00:07:31,028\n那我們一方面要穩定自己人的軍心另外一方面適當的反制作為讓對方被點到的人他也會難過一下像之前美國空軍學院把他們的火箭軍所有的座標連軍犬的訓練單位座標都列出來隔沒一兩個月他們火箭軍從司令副司令到這個他們叫做子戰員通通都換掉了這個是給部長做建議下一個議題我要請教這個比較嚴肅了\n\n21\n00:07:33,609 --> 00:07:58,096\n我們的邊線筆其實今天剛好主席給我們比較長的時間我們來研究一下邊線筆我先請教部長我們對於部隊的邊線筆有一個名詞叫做戰力域值英文叫ThresholdThreshold就是臨界點戰力域值我們自己國軍有沒有設定那個是百分之多少這個是不是請\n\n22\n00:07:59,758 --> 00:08:20,212\n你知道戰力域值這個是我們有關邊線比到達這個臨界點部隊就不太能夠拉出去了委員好我首先說明我們國軍整個目標邊線比的目標是80%美軍的邊線比是多少它的臨界點在哪裡85%啦我幫你查了啦美軍的戰力訓練跟裝備應該比我們好\n\n23\n00:08:27,742 --> 00:08:47,610\n可他邊線比達到85%在美軍的定義這個部隊要研究為什麼發生這個事情這個部隊是沒辦法拉出去作戰的就是戰力減損的狀態那我們如果看一下我們國軍歷年的邊線比我現在邊線比還是用整體來除其實這樣除是不對的喔我應該看飛機空軍的他負責維修飛機的\n\n24\n00:08:50,851 --> 00:09:00,813\n我海軍陸戰隊的我裝甲兵的那樣看會更清楚但是以平均數來看2020年我們整體有88.572021年到87.572022年到822023年到802024年到78今年大概我看是75上下一直往下掉現在目前是78.6你看78.6比你們自己設的臨界點80%也是比較低嘛\n\n25\n00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:50,163\n是跟委員說明就是說兩個方面第一個方面就是說從119年開始一直到現在其實每年的我們的編制數都是越來越多的那其實我們現在的人數跟111年的那你的意思是說我們的分母變大了我的編制有擴充我有增兵編制變大了但是蘿蔔坑變多了蘿蔔雖然沒有少但是坑變大所以數字掉下來嗎\n\n26\n00:09:51,664 --> 00:10:11,001\n我們看細部數字這數字是你們的喔你看一下喔我們以士兵來看機部單位72%炮兵68%你可以往下看這數據你們都看得到兵的部分你看防空飛彈指揮部41%\n\n27\n00:10:15,438 --> 00:10:42,200\n好幾個單位55有6967以美軍的這個叫做threshold臨界點來講85%我們沒有一個沒有一個達標耶以我們自己的80%來看是很嚴重的低喔事關的部分只有少數幾個單位勉強達標多數都在按照我們國軍的最低域值戰力域值就最低標準限以下\n\n28\n00:10:43,605 --> 00:10:46,700\n為什麼士兵為什麼士兵特別低\n\n29\n00:10:48,098 --> 00:11:17,336\n跟委員說明我分三個方面來跟委員說明我們其實今年從去年到今年所有的成效都在逐步的提升沒有啊我看到數字是一年一年往下掉啊就是說除了編制數增加之外另外就是少子化我們在109年那個少子化我們20年前21年前少生的現在也不會補生啊少子化是一個區間那不是一年兩年我現在跟你研究的情形就是說你剛才講編制放大\n\n30\n00:11:17,796 --> 00:11:31,006\n我可以接受但那個精準的數據因為屬於軍事機密我沒辦法去算你的編制如果增加了2000人足不足以影響這個比例我是懷疑喔以統計上來看我現在是要你找出這個問題來你看像裝甲單位\n\n31\n00:11:34,549 --> 00:11:53,872\n裝甲是最需要專業的我一個戰車營要多少人我們曾經因為車長邊線筆掉到六成五以下第九屆吧當時我們就把少衛中衛到上衛他可以延到17年擇優加三可以到20年\n\n32\n00:11:55,253 --> 00:12:21,352\n讓中衛少衛的年輕軍官他不用擔心他升不上去領不到終身縫他有個願景我們希望穩定嘛所以你要找出病因來我們才能找出解方你用錯的話會產生什麼情形邊線筆不足第一個戰力不足第二個我們現在很多高精的裝備在操作上專業性不足的人來操作他的危險性會升高\n\n33\n00:12:22,907 --> 00:12:49,460\n會有這些問題所以你們到底有沒有研究過為什麼賓的部分特別低跟委員說明我們今年的數據我用今年數據來跟委員做說明不市府在112年是5400113年是5057元但是今年到現在10月份是2600多元也就是說不市府我們到目前為止比去年同期減少1400這個叫流盈率嘛是流盈率\n\n34\n00:12:49,640 --> 00:13:13,535\n你們流營率沒有降你們流營率在86%以上這是不適服的那流營率我們部班標準是76去年部長來的時候採取很多人性化的管理措施之後我們去年的流營率是82今年到目前為止是86對我印象你流營率流營率到86好事老兵長留久用戰力強可是我們的邊線比較往下掉就代表什麼問題\n\n35\n00:13:14,898 --> 00:13:41,207\n招募沒有募新的進來跟委員報告因為我們如果拿三月的邊線比是76.9的話現在的邊線比78.6所以我當然希望我們還是朝向更好的方向發展那是第一點第二點的話就是說有一些當時在討論各項佳績的時候就有討論到說哪些部隊的邊線比是\n\n36\n00:13:41,587 --> 00:13:59,095\n所以這個就是我要最後建議的結論所以我們當時才會在這個從4月1號開始我們調升這個志願家族之外主要就著重在這個戰鬥部隊的他在不同的家族留下我們要的戰力嘛所以部長因為時間超過了我還聽說一個現象我們駝江級的邊線筆徑\n\n37\n00:14:05,748 --> 00:14:08,190\n低於50%有沒有這個現象海軍這邊駝江級我們這個最新的這算艇啦800噸上下的艦啦\n\n38\n00:14:18,895 --> 00:14:47,437\n海軍參謀長那個駝江級它整體的邊線大概會弱於大概70到72有到70到72沒有低於50低於50會嚇到應該是有些船的士兵那因為士兵數的確是有些船的士兵數會多跟少但我會按照任務來做邊背跟調整所以我建議部長跟我們軍總第一個把那一個戰力域值也就是那個臨界點在每個單位可能要把它當作一個科學來研究\n\n39\n00:14:48,277 --> 00:15:15,180\n美軍是85%但他每個單位還不一樣到這個單位低於那裡對戰力就有減損的時候我們該做什麼作為這是第一個第二個我們4月1號或者過去這麼多年來其實國軍的薪資我聽到很多專業的將領在講薪資不是齊頭式的問題而是透過專業的加擠在特別辛苦或特別需要或特別專業的地方透過加擠把人才留下來\n\n40\n00:15:17,182 --> 00:15:44,318\n這個部分其實我倒希望國防部提出一個方案跟我們委員會大家來討論我們都希望加薪但是每一分薪水每一分預算用在對的對國防有幫助的那這個我今天有關編線筆花了一點時間跟部長這邊討論我們未來繼續再探討這個話題我們希望看到你們提出一些改善的方案我想不管在招募或者不釋乎或者留營率或者是有關這個全面檢視整體檢視軍人待遇我們都會持續來進行好謝謝謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1180\t2203\t謝謝主席 麻煩部長請部長\n12985\t40843\t部長早 幾個問題要請教部長第一個我們當然最近大概連續三波中共在點名懸賞通緝不管是軍情局 資通電軍或者新戰大隊等等當然這個做賊的很抓賊法律也不及於台灣那他的內容拼湊而來不見得正確這我們都知道 我就不重複了我要請教就是說畢竟他一直撈到了一些資料\n41824\t52602\t我們國防部對於洩漏的管道還有亡羊補牢把這個洞堵上了沒有那現在是軍安總隊在管這一塊呢還是哪個單位在管這一塊是不是先請教部長\n54885\t72409\t我想我們就這些任意拼湊的這些相關的資料我們第一個還是要說明這個是屬於中共認知作戰的一部分當然啦 產生一種心理規則所以我們的部分我們會要求這些這個\n77461\t101590\t同仁在這個社群媒體上面在從事任何相關的這些發布的時候不要做任何部長 堵上有兩個洞一個就是說他當然還是撈一些資料有的是從社群 有的是從個人的一些資料這個是過去已經發生的\n102310\t111630\t那在未來我們對於機敏單位我們的軍事官兵他的身份的保密的強化你們有沒有準備備案出來了\n112076\t137978\t對 現在就是會進行相關的一些進一步的保密作為包括研議利用運用化名的這個等等對 就是說我們不管就機敏單位我們自己知道啦當然我們不能全軍都用化名那等於沒有化名一樣嘛所以哪些單位要用化名來保護他的身份那我還是有個建議如果他在為國效力保護我們國家的情形下\n139259\t161066\t這些軍事官兵也是我們的弟兄我們應該要保護他們所以他如果遭遇到類似的情形不管有或沒有這個對對岸準不準我們不說對於相關的保護還有如果遭致損失應該比照軍情人員給予相當的補貼我不知道我們國防部現在有沒有進行這樣的作業或者有沒有這個打算\n162393\t187119\t我們會在第一時間對這些單位及官兵給予關懷輔導然後並且進一步採取適當的保護措施我舉個例子 史順文 史中將他現在是局長 他被點名了那他本身也許是資安專家他退下來之後呢 他找工作開始遇到困難或者他在旅行的時候 我那天問國安局我們不是Interpol的會員 中國是\n190322\t216816\t他把這個丟到裡面的黃色通緝名單紅色通緝名單的時候在旅行上會導致一些不便利還有一些風險那我們當然用化名來處理也是另外一種不便利他的資歷沒辦法去累積我的意思說就我們相關機敏工作人員他為國家犧牲付出那我們比照我剛才講軍情單位或者勤工相關單位有沒有適當的補貼的計畫有沒有這個打算\n220393\t233668\t因為這些人員我覺得他們發布的有點狀況不太一樣因為有自動電軍也有這個星戰大隊對 星戰大隊自動電軍是應該是比照情報機關\n235467\t253538\t那可能有相關的這些法制可以援引作為一個依據那新戰大隊的部分呢他並不是同情報機關我這邊我們今天沒有說要答案啦甚至有答案我們未必要在這邊揭露我建議部長跟相關單位去研議一下\n254338\t269623\t如果這樣的情形它屬於勤工法規定的單位我們有沒有什麼適當的救濟或者補貼計畫那對於非勤工法的單位我們有沒有什麼樣的打算至少讓弟兄知道我在這個國軍的大家庭裡面為國效力\n271377\t297535\t部隊有考慮到我 考慮到我面對的風險那我這一個部分我希望我們國防部如果有這樣的方案的話適當的方式讓委員會知道那我們接到一些部隊一些想法反應的時候也可以幫你們做說明因為事實上公布的有很多其實不是現役的人員並不是現役但他因為他現役時候的情形如果遭致損失我認為還是要給予關懷\n299448\t322927\t他不是因為他自己的事嘛他是因為幫國家效力遭遇到這樣的情形我們適度的關懷關懷的方案本席間沒有要求說一定要怎麼樣那你要有個方案出來讓他知道部隊有看到我這一塊這樣因為離退的人員將來回來也是我們的戰力啊他還沒有整個被除役嘛是 我們會來研議因為部長你本身也從國安會秘書長到國防部\n324857\t345194\t針對中國解放軍的這些動作我們有沒有一些類似的制裁的反制美國做過美國把他們的軍備局局長他們的名詞跟我們不一樣美國把軍備局局長的海外資產還有他的遷徙旅遊列為制裁對象我們國防部有沒有考慮\n347728\t368908\t我想就這個部分應該如果要討論這件事情的話我覺得應該是有國安會來協調因為中國在公布這件事情的時候據我了解也不是國防部在發布他是用發言單位 他在做星戰 認知作戰國務院還有公安局\n371009\t398749\t他是用發布通緝的方式他有他政治目的他把他內政化那美國曾經就中國幾個軍備相關的單位進行制裁那我不是說我們要完全這樣做我是說思考一下跟盟友特別是美國這邊來思考針對中國解放軍威脅我們國家的安全傷害區域安全的情形下大家可以合作讓這樣子的人\n401371\t424148\t這些賊要抓賊頭嘛 把他點一下 制裁一下因為根據中國自己的統計資料他們的高官貴人 海外藏的資產跟親屬是一大堆啦這個我是給部長建議 這當然可以到國安會去討論所以有關這個相關單位 資通監軍 軍情局等等這當然是一個認知作戰\n424928\t451028\t那我們一方面要穩定自己人的軍心另外一方面適當的反制作為讓對方被點到的人他也會難過一下像之前美國空軍學院把他們的火箭軍所有的座標連軍犬的訓練單位座標都列出來隔沒一兩個月他們火箭軍從司令副司令到這個他們叫做子戰員通通都換掉了這個是給部長做建議下一個議題我要請教這個比較嚴肅了\n453609\t478096\t我們的邊線筆其實今天剛好主席給我們比較長的時間我們來研究一下邊線筆我先請教部長我們對於部隊的邊線筆有一個名詞叫做戰力域值英文叫ThresholdThreshold就是臨界點戰力域值我們自己國軍有沒有設定那個是百分之多少這個是不是請\n479758\t500212\t你知道戰力域值這個是我們有關邊線比到達這個臨界點部隊就不太能夠拉出去了委員好 我首先說明我們國軍整個目標邊線比的目標是80%美軍的邊線比是多少它的臨界點在哪裡85%啦 我幫你查了啦美軍的戰力訓練跟裝備應該比我們好\n507742\t527610\t可他邊線比達到85%在美軍的定義這個部隊要研究為什麼發生這個事情這個部隊是沒辦法拉出去作戰的就是戰力減損的狀態那我們如果看一下我們國軍歷年的邊線比我現在邊線比還是用整體來除其實這樣除是不對的喔我應該看飛機 空軍的他負責維修飛機的\n530851\t540813\t我海軍陸戰隊的我裝甲兵的那樣看會更清楚但是以平均數來看2020年我們整體有88.572021年到87.572022年到822023年到802024年到78今年大概我看是75上下一直往下掉現在目前是78.6你看78.6比你們自己設的臨界點80%也是比較低嘛\n561280\t590163\t是跟委員說明就是說兩個方面第一個方面就是說從119年開始一直到現在其實每年的我們的編制數都是越來越多的那其實我們現在的人數跟111年的那你的意思是說我們的分母變大了我的編制有擴充我有增兵編制變大了但是蘿蔔坑變多了蘿蔔雖然沒有少但是坑變大所以數字掉下來嗎\n591664\t611001\t我們看細部數字 這數字是你們的喔你看一下喔 我們以士兵來看機部單位 72% 炮兵 68%你可以往下看 這數據你們都看得到兵的部分 你看防空飛彈指揮部 41%\n615438\t642200\t好幾個單位55有69 67以美軍的這個叫做threshold臨界點來講85%我們沒有一個沒有一個達標耶以我們自己的80%來看是很嚴重的低喔事關的部分只有少數幾個單位勉強達標多數都在按照我們國軍的最低域值戰力域值就最低標準限以下\n643605\t646700\t為什麼士兵為什麼士兵特別低\n648098\t677336\t跟委員說明我分三個方面來跟委員說明我們其實今年從去年到今年所有的成效都在逐步的提升沒有啊我看到數字是一年一年往下掉啊就是說除了編制數增加之外另外就是少子化我們在109年那個少子化我們20年前21年前少生的現在也不會補生啊少子化是一個區間那不是一年兩年我現在跟你研究的情形就是說你剛才講編制放大\n677796\t691006\t我可以接受但那個精準的數據因為屬於軍事機密我沒辦法去算你的編制如果增加了2000人足不足以影響這個比例我是懷疑喔以統計上來看我現在是要你找出這個問題來你看像裝甲單位\n694549\t713872\t裝甲是最需要專業的 我一個戰車營要多少人我們曾經因為車長邊線筆掉到六成五以下 第九屆吧當時我們就把少衛中衛到上衛他可以延到17年 擇優加三可以到20年\n715253\t741352\t讓中衛 少衛的年輕軍官他不用擔心他升不上去 領不到終身縫他有個願景 我們希望穩定嘛所以你要找出病因來 我們才能找出解方你用錯的話 會產生什麼情形邊線筆不足 第一個戰力不足第二個我們現在很多高精的裝備在操作上專業性不足的人來操作 他的危險性會升高\n742907\t769460\t會有這些問題所以你們到底有沒有研究過為什麼賓的部分特別低跟委員說明我們今年的數據我用今年數據來跟委員做說明不市府在112年是5400113年是5057元但是今年到現在10月份是2600多元也就是說不市府我們到目前為止比去年同期減少1400這個叫流盈率嘛是流盈率\n769640\t793535\t你們流營率沒有降 你們流營率在86%以上這是不適服的 那流營率我們部班標準是76去年部長來的時候 採取很多人性化的管理措施之後我們去年的流營率是82 今年到目前為止是86對 我印象你流營率 流營率到86 好事老兵長留久用 戰力強可是我們的邊線比較往下掉 就代表什麼問題\n794898\t821207\t招募沒有募新的進來跟委員報告因為我們如果拿三月的邊線比是76.9的話現在的邊線比78.6所以我當然希望我們還是朝向更好的方向發展那是第一點 第二點的話就是說有一些當時在討論各項佳績的時候就有討論到說哪些部隊的邊線比是\n821587\t839095\t所以這個就是我要最後建議的結論所以我們當時才會在這個從4月1號開始我們調升這個志願家族之外主要就著重在這個戰鬥部隊的他在不同的家族留下我們要的戰力嘛所以部長因為時間超過了我還聽說一個現象我們駝江級的邊線筆徑\n845748\t848190\t低於50%有沒有這個現象 海軍這邊 駝江級我們這個最新的這算艇啦 800噸上下的 艦啦\n858895\t887437\t海軍參謀長那個駝江級它整體的邊線大概會弱於大概70到72有到70到72沒有低於50低於50會嚇到應該是有些船的士兵那因為士兵數的確是有些船的士兵數會多跟少但我會按照任務來做邊背跟調整所以我建議部長跟我們軍總第一個把那一個戰力域值也就是那個臨界點在每個單位可能要把它當作一個科學來研究\n888277\t915180\t美軍是85%但他每個單位還不一樣到這個單位低於那裡對戰力就有減損的時候我們該做什麼作為這是第一個第二個我們4月1號或者過去這麼多年來其實國軍的薪資我聽到很多專業的將領在講薪資不是齊頭式的問題而是透過專業的加擠在特別辛苦或特別需要或特別專業的地方透過加擠把人才留下來\n917182\t944318\t這個部分其實我倒希望國防部提出一個方案跟我們委員會大家來討論我們都希望加薪但是每一分薪水每一分預算用在對的對國防有幫助的那這個我今天有關編線筆花了一點時間跟部長這邊討論我們未來繼續再探討這個話題我們希望看到你們提出一些改善的方案我想不管在招募或者不釋乎或者留營率或者是有關這個全面檢視整體檢視軍人待遇我們都會持續來進行好 謝謝 謝謝部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席 麻煩部長請部長\n部長早 幾個問題要請教部長第一個我們當然最近大概連續三波中共在點名懸賞通緝不管是軍情局 資通電軍或者新戰大隊等等當然這個做賊的很抓賊法律也不及於台灣那他的內容拼湊而來不見得正確這我們都知道 我就不重複了我要請教就是說畢竟他一直撈到了一些資料\n我們國防部對於洩漏的管道還有亡羊補牢把這個洞堵上了沒有那現在是軍安總隊在管這一塊呢還是哪個單位在管這一塊是不是先請教部長\n我想我們就這些任意拼湊的這些相關的資料我們第一個還是要說明這個是屬於中共認知作戰的一部分當然啦 產生一種心理規則所以我們的部分我們會要求這些這個\n同仁在這個社群媒體上面在從事任何相關的這些發布的時候不要做任何部長 堵上有兩個洞一個就是說他當然還是撈一些資料有的是從社群 有的是從個人的一些資料這個是過去已經發生的\n那在未來我們對於機敏單位我們的軍事官兵他的身份的保密的強化你們有沒有準備備案出來了\n對 現在就是會進行相關的一些進一步的保密作為包括研議利用運用化名的這個等等對 就是說我們不管就機敏單位我們自己知道啦當然我們不能全軍都用化名那等於沒有化名一樣嘛所以哪些單位要用化名來保護他的身份那我還是有個建議如果他在為國效力保護我們國家的情形下\n這些軍事官兵也是我們的弟兄我們應該要保護他們所以他如果遭遇到類似的情形不管有或沒有這個對對岸準不準我們不說對於相關的保護還有如果遭致損失應該比照軍情人員給予相當的補貼我不知道我們國防部現在有沒有進行這樣的作業或者有沒有這個打算\n我們會在第一時間對這些單位及官兵給予關懷輔導然後並且進一步採取適當的保護措施我舉個例子 史順文 史中將他現在是局長 他被點名了那他本身也許是資安專家他退下來之後呢 他找工作開始遇到困難或者他在旅行的時候 我那天問國安局我們不是Interpol的會員 中國是\n他把這個丟到裡面的黃色通緝名單紅色通緝名單的時候在旅行上會導致一些不便利還有一些風險那我們當然用化名來處理也是另外一種不便利他的資歷沒辦法去累積我的意思說就我們相關機敏工作人員他為國家犧牲付出那我們比照我剛才講軍情單位或者勤工相關單位有沒有適當的補貼的計畫有沒有這個打算\n因為這些人員我覺得他們發布的有點狀況不太一樣因為有自動電軍也有這個星戰大隊對 星戰大隊自動電軍是應該是比照情報機關\n那可能有相關的這些法制可以援引作為一個依據那新戰大隊的部分呢他並不是同情報機關我這邊我們今天沒有說要答案啦甚至有答案我們未必要在這邊揭露我建議部長跟相關單位去研議一下\n如果這樣的情形它屬於勤工法規定的單位我們有沒有什麼適當的救濟或者補貼計畫那對於非勤工法的單位我們有沒有什麼樣的打算至少讓弟兄知道我在這個國軍的大家庭裡面為國效力\n部隊有考慮到我 考慮到我面對的風險那我這一個部分我希望我們國防部如果有這樣的方案的話適當的方式讓委員會知道那我們接到一些部隊一些想法反應的時候也可以幫你們做說明因為事實上公布的有很多其實不是現役的人員並不是現役但他因為他現役時候的情形如果遭致損失我認為還是要給予關懷\n他不是因為他自己的事嘛他是因為幫國家效力遭遇到這樣的情形我們適度的關懷關懷的方案本席間沒有要求說一定要怎麼樣那你要有個方案出來讓他知道部隊有看到我這一塊這樣因為離退的人員將來回來也是我們的戰力啊他還沒有整個被除役嘛是 我們會來研議因為部長你本身也從國安會秘書長到國防部\n針對中國解放軍的這些動作我們有沒有一些類似的制裁的反制美國做過美國把他們的軍備局局長他們的名詞跟我們不一樣美國把軍備局局長的海外資產還有他的遷徙旅遊列為制裁對象我們國防部有沒有考慮\n我想就這個部分應該如果要討論這件事情的話我覺得應該是有國安會來協調因為中國在公布這件事情的時候據我了解也不是國防部在發布他是用發言單位 他在做星戰 認知作戰國務院還有公安局\n他是用發布通緝的方式他有他政治目的他把他內政化那美國曾經就中國幾個軍備相關的單位進行制裁那我不是說我們要完全這樣做我是說思考一下跟盟友特別是美國這邊來思考針對中國解放軍威脅我們國家的安全傷害區域安全的情形下大家可以合作讓這樣子的人\n這些賊要抓賊頭嘛 把他點一下 制裁一下因為根據中國自己的統計資料他們的高官貴人 海外藏的資產跟親屬是一大堆啦這個我是給部長建議 這當然可以到國安會去討論所以有關這個相關單位 資通監軍 軍情局等等這當然是一個認知作戰\n那我們一方面要穩定自己人的軍心另外一方面適當的反制作為讓對方被點到的人他也會難過一下像之前美國空軍學院把他們的火箭軍所有的座標連軍犬的訓練單位座標都列出來隔沒一兩個月他們火箭軍從司令副司令到這個他們叫做子戰員通通都換掉了這個是給部長做建議下一個議題我要請教這個比較嚴肅了\n我們的邊線筆其實今天剛好主席給我們比較長的時間我們來研究一下邊線筆我先請教部長我們對於部隊的邊線筆有一個名詞叫做戰力域值英文叫ThresholdThreshold就是臨界點戰力域值我們自己國軍有沒有設定那個是百分之多少這個是不是請\n你知道戰力域值這個是我們有關邊線比到達這個臨界點部隊就不太能夠拉出去了委員好 我首先說明我們國軍整個目標邊線比的目標是80%美軍的邊線比是多少它的臨界點在哪裡85%啦 我幫你查了啦美軍的戰力訓練跟裝備應該比我們好\n可他邊線比達到85%在美軍的定義這個部隊要研究為什麼發生這個事情這個部隊是沒辦法拉出去作戰的就是戰力減損的狀態那我們如果看一下我們國軍歷年的邊線比我現在邊線比還是用整體來除其實這樣除是不對的喔我應該看飛機 空軍的他負責維修飛機的\n我海軍陸戰隊的我裝甲兵的那樣看會更清楚但是以平均數來看2020年我們整體有88.572021年到87.572022年到822023年到802024年到78今年大概我看是75上下一直往下掉現在目前是78.6你看78.6比你們自己設的臨界點80%也是比較低嘛\n是跟委員說明就是說兩個方面第一個方面就是說從119年開始一直到現在其實每年的我們的編制數都是越來越多的那其實我們現在的人數跟111年的那你的意思是說我們的分母變大了我的編制有擴充我有增兵編制變大了但是蘿蔔坑變多了蘿蔔雖然沒有少但是坑變大所以數字掉下來嗎\n我們看細部數字 這數字是你們的喔你看一下喔 我們以士兵來看機部單位 72% 炮兵 68%你可以往下看 這數據你們都看得到兵的部分 你看防空飛彈指揮部 41%\n好幾個單位55有69 67以美軍的這個叫做threshold臨界點來講85%我們沒有一個沒有一個達標耶以我們自己的80%來看是很嚴重的低喔事關的部分只有少數幾個單位勉強達標多數都在按照我們國軍的最低域值戰力域值就最低標準限以下\n為什麼士兵為什麼士兵特別低\n跟委員說明我分三個方面來跟委員說明我們其實今年從去年到今年所有的成效都在逐步的提升沒有啊我看到數字是一年一年往下掉啊就是說除了編制數增加之外另外就是少子化我們在109年那個少子化我們20年前21年前少生的現在也不會補生啊少子化是一個區間那不是一年兩年我現在跟你研究的情形就是說你剛才講編制放大\n我可以接受但那個精準的數據因為屬於軍事機密我沒辦法去算你的編制如果增加了2000人足不足以影響這個比例我是懷疑喔以統計上來看我現在是要你找出這個問題來你看像裝甲單位\n裝甲是最需要專業的 我一個戰車營要多少人我們曾經因為車長邊線筆掉到六成五以下 第九屆吧當時我們就把少衛中衛到上衛他可以延到17年 擇優加三可以到20年\n讓中衛 少衛的年輕軍官他不用擔心他升不上去 領不到終身縫他有個願景 我們希望穩定嘛所以你要找出病因來 我們才能找出解方你用錯的話 會產生什麼情形邊線筆不足 第一個戰力不足第二個我們現在很多高精的裝備在操作上專業性不足的人來操作 他的危險性會升高\n會有這些問題所以你們到底有沒有研究過為什麼賓的部分特別低跟委員說明我們今年的數據我用今年數據來跟委員做說明不市府在112年是5400113年是5057元但是今年到現在10月份是2600多元也就是說不市府我們到目前為止比去年同期減少1400這個叫流盈率嘛是流盈率\n你們流營率沒有降 你們流營率在86%以上這是不適服的 那流營率我們部班標準是76去年部長來的時候 採取很多人性化的管理措施之後我們去年的流營率是82 今年到目前為止是86對 我印象你流營率 流營率到86 好事老兵長留久用 戰力強可是我們的邊線比較往下掉 就代表什麼問題\n招募沒有募新的進來跟委員報告因為我們如果拿三月的邊線比是76.9的話現在的邊線比78.6所以我當然希望我們還是朝向更好的方向發展那是第一點 第二點的話就是說有一些當時在討論各項佳績的時候就有討論到說哪些部隊的邊線比是\n所以這個就是我要最後建議的結論所以我們當時才會在這個從4月1號開始我們調升這個志願家族之外主要就著重在這個戰鬥部隊的他在不同的家族留下我們要的戰力嘛所以部長因為時間超過了我還聽說一個現象我們駝江級的邊線筆徑\n低於50%有沒有這個現象 海軍這邊 駝江級我們這個最新的這算艇啦 800噸上下的 艦啦\n海軍參謀長那個駝江級它整體的邊線大概會弱於大概70到72有到70到72沒有低於50低於50會嚇到應該是有些船的士兵那因為士兵數的確是有些船的士兵數會多跟少但我會按照任務來做邊背跟調整所以我建議部長跟我們軍總第一個把那一個戰力域值也就是那個臨界點在每個單位可能要把它當作一個科學來研究\n美軍是85%但他每個單位還不一樣到這個單位低於那裡對戰力就有減損的時候我們該做什麼作為這是第一個第二個我們4月1號或者過去這麼多年來其實國軍的薪資我聽到很多專業的將領在講薪資不是齊頭式的問題而是透過專業的加擠在特別辛苦或特別需要或特別專業的地方透過加擠把人才留下來\n這個部分其實我倒希望國防部提出一個方案跟我們委員會大家來討論我們都希望加薪但是每一分薪水每一分預算用在對的對國防有幫助的那這個我今天有關編線筆花了一點時間跟部長這邊討論我們未來繼續再探討這個話題我們希望看到你們提出一些改善的方案我想不管在招募或者不釋乎或者留營率或者是有關這個全面檢視整體檢視軍人待遇我們都會持續來進行好 謝謝 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.180 --> 00:02.203\n謝謝主席麻煩部長請部長\n\n00:12.985 --> 00:40.843\n部長早幾個問題要請教部長第一個我們當然最近大概連續三波中共在點名懸賞通緝不管是軍情局資通電軍或者新戰大隊等等當然這個做賊的很抓賊法律也不及於台灣那他的內容拼湊而來不見得正確這我們都知道我就不重複了我要請教就是說畢竟他一直撈到了一些資料\n\n00:41.824 --> 00:52.602\n我們國防部對於洩漏的管道還有亡羊補牢把這個洞堵上了沒有那現在是軍安總隊在管這一塊呢還是哪個單位在管這一塊是不是先請教部長\n\n00:54.885 --> 01:12.409\n我想我們就這些任意拼湊的這些相關的資料我們第一個還是要說明這個是屬於中共認知作戰的一部分當然啦產生一種心理規則所以我們的部分我們會要求這些這個\n\n01:17.461 --> 01:41.590\n同仁在這個社群媒體上面在從事任何相關的這些發布的時候不要做任何部長堵上有兩個洞一個就是說他當然還是撈一些資料有的是從社群有的是從個人的一些資料這個是過去已經發生的\n\n01:42.310 --> 01:51.630\n那在未來我們對於機敏單位我們的軍事官兵他的身份的保密的強化你們有沒有準備備案出來了\n\n01:52.076 --> 02:17.978\n對現在就是會進行相關的一些進一步的保密作為包括研議利用運用化名的這個等等對就是說我們不管就機敏單位我們自己知道啦當然我們不能全軍都用化名那等於沒有化名一樣嘛所以哪些單位要用化名來保護他的身份那我還是有個建議如果他在為國效力保護我們國家的情形下\n\n02:19.259 --> 02:41.066\n這些軍事官兵也是我們的弟兄我們應該要保護他們所以他如果遭遇到類似的情形不管有或沒有這個對對岸準不準我們不說對於相關的保護還有如果遭致損失應該比照軍情人員給予相當的補貼我不知道我們國防部現在有沒有進行這樣的作業或者有沒有這個打算\n\n02:42.393 --> 03:07.119\n我們會在第一時間對這些單位及官兵給予關懷輔導然後並且進一步採取適當的保護措施我舉個例子史順文史中將他現在是局長他被點名了那他本身也許是資安專家他退下來之後呢他找工作開始遇到困難或者他在旅行的時候我那天問國安局我們不是Interpol的會員中國是\n\n03:10.322 --> 03:36.816\n他把這個丟到裡面的黃色通緝名單紅色通緝名單的時候在旅行上會導致一些不便利還有一些風險那我們當然用化名來處理也是另外一種不便利他的資歷沒辦法去累積我的意思說就我們相關機敏工作人員他為國家犧牲付出那我們比照我剛才講軍情單位或者勤工相關單位有沒有適當的補貼的計畫有沒有這個打算\n\n03:40.393 --> 03:53.668\n因為這些人員我覺得他們發布的有點狀況不太一樣因為有自動電軍也有這個星戰大隊對星戰大隊自動電軍是應該是比照情報機關\n\n03:55.467 --> 04:13.538\n那可能有相關的這些法制可以援引作為一個依據那新戰大隊的部分呢他並不是同情報機關我這邊我們今天沒有說要答案啦甚至有答案我們未必要在這邊揭露我建議部長跟相關單位去研議一下\n\n04:14.338 --> 04:29.623\n如果這樣的情形它屬於勤工法規定的單位我們有沒有什麼適當的救濟或者補貼計畫那對於非勤工法的單位我們有沒有什麼樣的打算至少讓弟兄知道我在這個國軍的大家庭裡面為國效力\n\n04:31.377 --> 04:57.535\n部隊有考慮到我考慮到我面對的風險那我這一個部分我希望我們國防部如果有這樣的方案的話適當的方式讓委員會知道那我們接到一些部隊一些想法反應的時候也可以幫你們做說明因為事實上公布的有很多其實不是現役的人員並不是現役但他因為他現役時候的情形如果遭致損失我認為還是要給予關懷\n\n04:59.448 --> 05:22.927\n他不是因為他自己的事嘛他是因為幫國家效力遭遇到這樣的情形我們適度的關懷關懷的方案本席間沒有要求說一定要怎麼樣那你要有個方案出來讓他知道部隊有看到我這一塊這樣因為離退的人員將來回來也是我們的戰力啊他還沒有整個被除役嘛是我們會來研議因為部長你本身也從國安會秘書長到國防部\n\n05:24.857 --> 05:45.194\n針對中國解放軍的這些動作我們有沒有一些類似的制裁的反制美國做過美國把他們的軍備局局長他們的名詞跟我們不一樣美國把軍備局局長的海外資產還有他的遷徙旅遊列為制裁對象我們國防部有沒有考慮\n\n05:47.728 --> 06:08.908\n我想就這個部分應該如果要討論這件事情的話我覺得應該是有國安會來協調因為中國在公布這件事情的時候據我了解也不是國防部在發布他是用發言單位他在做星戰認知作戰國務院還有公安局\n\n06:11.009 --> 06:38.749\n他是用發布通緝的方式他有他政治目的他把他內政化那美國曾經就中國幾個軍備相關的單位進行制裁那我不是說我們要完全這樣做我是說思考一下跟盟友特別是美國這邊來思考針對中國解放軍威脅我們國家的安全傷害區域安全的情形下大家可以合作讓這樣子的人\n\n06:41.371 --> 07:04.148\n這些賊要抓賊頭嘛把他點一下制裁一下因為根據中國自己的統計資料他們的高官貴人海外藏的資產跟親屬是一大堆啦這個我是給部長建議這當然可以到國安會去討論所以有關這個相關單位資通監軍軍情局等等這當然是一個認知作戰\n\n07:04.928 --> 07:31.028\n那我們一方面要穩定自己人的軍心另外一方面適當的反制作為讓對方被點到的人他也會難過一下像之前美國空軍學院把他們的火箭軍所有的座標連軍犬的訓練單位座標都列出來隔沒一兩個月他們火箭軍從司令副司令到這個他們叫做子戰員通通都換掉了這個是給部長做建議下一個議題我要請教這個比較嚴肅了\n\n07:33.609 --> 07:58.096\n我們的邊線筆其實今天剛好主席給我們比較長的時間我們來研究一下邊線筆我先請教部長我們對於部隊的邊線筆有一個名詞叫做戰力域值英文叫ThresholdThreshold就是臨界點戰力域值我們自己國軍有沒有設定那個是百分之多少這個是不是請\n\n07:59.758 --> 08:20.212\n你知道戰力域值這個是我們有關邊線比到達這個臨界點部隊就不太能夠拉出去了委員好我首先說明我們國軍整個目標邊線比的目標是80%美軍的邊線比是多少它的臨界點在哪裡85%啦我幫你查了啦美軍的戰力訓練跟裝備應該比我們好\n\n08:27.742 --> 08:47.610\n可他邊線比達到85%在美軍的定義這個部隊要研究為什麼發生這個事情這個部隊是沒辦法拉出去作戰的就是戰力減損的狀態那我們如果看一下我們國軍歷年的邊線比我現在邊線比還是用整體來除其實這樣除是不對的喔我應該看飛機空軍的他負責維修飛機的\n\n08:50.851 --> 09:00.813\n我海軍陸戰隊的我裝甲兵的那樣看會更清楚但是以平均數來看2020年我們整體有88.572021年到87.572022年到822023年到802024年到78今年大概我看是75上下一直往下掉現在目前是78.6你看78.6比你們自己設的臨界點80%也是比較低嘛\n\n09:21.280 --> 09:50.163\n是跟委員說明就是說兩個方面第一個方面就是說從119年開始一直到現在其實每年的我們的編制數都是越來越多的那其實我們現在的人數跟111年的那你的意思是說我們的分母變大了我的編制有擴充我有增兵編制變大了但是蘿蔔坑變多了蘿蔔雖然沒有少但是坑變大所以數字掉下來嗎\n\n09:51.664 --> 10:11.001\n我們看細部數字這數字是你們的喔你看一下喔我們以士兵來看機部單位72%炮兵68%你可以往下看這數據你們都看得到兵的部分你看防空飛彈指揮部41%\n\n10:15.438 --> 10:42.200\n好幾個單位55有6967以美軍的這個叫做threshold臨界點來講85%我們沒有一個沒有一個達標耶以我們自己的80%來看是很嚴重的低喔事關的部分只有少數幾個單位勉強達標多數都在按照我們國軍的最低域值戰力域值就最低標準限以下\n\n10:43.605 --> 10:46.700\n為什麼士兵為什麼士兵特別低\n\n10:48.098 --> 11:17.336\n跟委員說明我分三個方面來跟委員說明我們其實今年從去年到今年所有的成效都在逐步的提升沒有啊我看到數字是一年一年往下掉啊就是說除了編制數增加之外另外就是少子化我們在109年那個少子化我們20年前21年前少生的現在也不會補生啊少子化是一個區間那不是一年兩年我現在跟你研究的情形就是說你剛才講編制放大\n\n11:17.796 --> 11:31.006\n我可以接受但那個精準的數據因為屬於軍事機密我沒辦法去算你的編制如果增加了2000人足不足以影響這個比例我是懷疑喔以統計上來看我現在是要你找出這個問題來你看像裝甲單位\n\n11:34.549 --> 11:53.872\n裝甲是最需要專業的我一個戰車營要多少人我們曾經因為車長邊線筆掉到六成五以下第九屆吧當時我們就把少衛中衛到上衛他可以延到17年擇優加三可以到20年\n\n11:55.253 --> 12:21.352\n讓中衛少衛的年輕軍官他不用擔心他升不上去領不到終身縫他有個願景我們希望穩定嘛所以你要找出病因來我們才能找出解方你用錯的話會產生什麼情形邊線筆不足第一個戰力不足第二個我們現在很多高精的裝備在操作上專業性不足的人來操作他的危險性會升高\n\n12:22.907 --> 12:49.460\n會有這些問題所以你們到底有沒有研究過為什麼賓的部分特別低跟委員說明我們今年的數據我用今年數據來跟委員做說明不市府在112年是5400113年是5057元但是今年到現在10月份是2600多元也就是說不市府我們到目前為止比去年同期減少1400這個叫流盈率嘛是流盈率\n\n12:49.640 --> 13:13.535\n你們流營率沒有降你們流營率在86%以上這是不適服的那流營率我們部班標準是76去年部長來的時候採取很多人性化的管理措施之後我們去年的流營率是82今年到目前為止是86對我印象你流營率流營率到86好事老兵長留久用戰力強可是我們的邊線比較往下掉就代表什麼問題\n\n13:14.898 --> 13:41.207\n招募沒有募新的進來跟委員報告因為我們如果拿三月的邊線比是76.9的話現在的邊線比78.6所以我當然希望我們還是朝向更好的方向發展那是第一點第二點的話就是說有一些當時在討論各項佳績的時候就有討論到說哪些部隊的邊線比是\n\n13:41.587 --> 13:59.095\n所以這個就是我要最後建議的結論所以我們當時才會在這個從4月1號開始我們調升這個志願家族之外主要就著重在這個戰鬥部隊的他在不同的家族留下我們要的戰力嘛所以部長因為時間超過了我還聽說一個現象我們駝江級的邊線筆徑\n\n14:05.748 --> 14:08.190\n低於50%有沒有這個現象海軍這邊駝江級我們這個最新的這算艇啦800噸上下的艦啦\n\n14:18.895 --> 14:47.437\n海軍參謀長那個駝江級它整體的邊線大概會弱於大概70到72有到70到72沒有低於50低於50會嚇到應該是有些船的士兵那因為士兵數的確是有些船的士兵數會多跟少但我會按照任務來做邊背跟調整所以我建議部長跟我們軍總第一個把那一個戰力域值也就是那個臨界點在每個單位可能要把它當作一個科學來研究\n\n14:48.277 --> 15:15.180\n美軍是85%但他每個單位還不一樣到這個單位低於那裡對戰力就有減損的時候我們該做什麼作為這是第一個第二個我們4月1號或者過去這麼多年來其實國軍的薪資我聽到很多專業的將領在講薪資不是齊頭式的問題而是透過專業的加擠在特別辛苦或特別需要或特別專業的地方透過加擠把人才留下來\n\n15:17.182 --> 15:44.318\n這個部分其實我倒希望國防部提出一個方案跟我們委員會大家來討論我們都希望加薪但是每一分薪水每一分預算用在對的對國防有幫助的那這個我今天有關編線筆花了一點時間跟部長這邊討論我們未來繼續再探討這個話題我們希望看到你們提出一些改善的方案我想不管在招募或者不釋乎或者留營率或者是有關這個全面檢視整體檢視軍人待遇我們都會持續來進行好謝謝謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.18,"end":2.203,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩部長請部長"},{"start":12.985,"end":40.843,"text":"部長早 幾個問題要請教部長第一個我們當然最近大概連續三波中共在點名懸賞通緝不管是軍情局 資通電軍或者新戰大隊等等當然這個做賊的很抓賊法律也不及於台灣那他的內容拼湊而來不見得正確這我們都知道 我就不重複了我要請教就是說畢竟他一直撈到了一些資料"},{"start":41.824,"end":52.602,"text":"我們國防部對於洩漏的管道還有亡羊補牢把這個洞堵上了沒有那現在是軍安總隊在管這一塊呢還是哪個單位在管這一塊是不是先請教部長"},{"start":54.885,"end":72.409,"text":"我想我們就這些任意拼湊的這些相關的資料我們第一個還是要說明這個是屬於中共認知作戰的一部分當然啦 產生一種心理規則所以我們的部分我們會要求這些這個"},{"start":77.461,"end":101.59,"text":"同仁在這個社群媒體上面在從事任何相關的這些發布的時候不要做任何部長 堵上有兩個洞一個就是說他當然還是撈一些資料有的是從社群 有的是從個人的一些資料這個是過去已經發生的"},{"start":102.31,"end":111.63,"text":"那在未來我們對於機敏單位我們的軍事官兵他的身份的保密的強化你們有沒有準備備案出來了"},{"start":112.076,"end":137.978,"text":"對 現在就是會進行相關的一些進一步的保密作為包括研議利用運用化名的這個等等對 就是說我們不管就機敏單位我們自己知道啦當然我們不能全軍都用化名那等於沒有化名一樣嘛所以哪些單位要用化名來保護他的身份那我還是有個建議如果他在為國效力保護我們國家的情形下"},{"start":139.259,"end":161.066,"text":"這些軍事官兵也是我們的弟兄我們應該要保護他們所以他如果遭遇到類似的情形不管有或沒有這個對對岸準不準我們不說對於相關的保護還有如果遭致損失應該比照軍情人員給予相當的補貼我不知道我們國防部現在有沒有進行這樣的作業或者有沒有這個打算"},{"start":162.393,"end":187.119,"text":"我們會在第一時間對這些單位及官兵給予關懷輔導然後並且進一步採取適當的保護措施我舉個例子 史順文 史中將他現在是局長 他被點名了那他本身也許是資安專家他退下來之後呢 他找工作開始遇到困難或者他在旅行的時候 我那天問國安局我們不是Interpol的會員 中國是"},{"start":190.322,"end":216.816,"text":"他把這個丟到裡面的黃色通緝名單紅色通緝名單的時候在旅行上會導致一些不便利還有一些風險那我們當然用化名來處理也是另外一種不便利他的資歷沒辦法去累積我的意思說就我們相關機敏工作人員他為國家犧牲付出那我們比照我剛才講軍情單位或者勤工相關單位有沒有適當的補貼的計畫有沒有這個打算"},{"start":220.393,"end":233.668,"text":"因為這些人員我覺得他們發布的有點狀況不太一樣因為有自動電軍也有這個星戰大隊對 星戰大隊自動電軍是應該是比照情報機關"},{"start":235.467,"end":253.538,"text":"那可能有相關的這些法制可以援引作為一個依據那新戰大隊的部分呢他並不是同情報機關我這邊我們今天沒有說要答案啦甚至有答案我們未必要在這邊揭露我建議部長跟相關單位去研議一下"},{"start":254.338,"end":269.623,"text":"如果這樣的情形它屬於勤工法規定的單位我們有沒有什麼適當的救濟或者補貼計畫那對於非勤工法的單位我們有沒有什麼樣的打算至少讓弟兄知道我在這個國軍的大家庭裡面為國效力"},{"start":271.377,"end":297.535,"text":"部隊有考慮到我 考慮到我面對的風險那我這一個部分我希望我們國防部如果有這樣的方案的話適當的方式讓委員會知道那我們接到一些部隊一些想法反應的時候也可以幫你們做說明因為事實上公布的有很多其實不是現役的人員並不是現役但他因為他現役時候的情形如果遭致損失我認為還是要給予關懷"},{"start":299.448,"end":322.927,"text":"他不是因為他自己的事嘛他是因為幫國家效力遭遇到這樣的情形我們適度的關懷關懷的方案本席間沒有要求說一定要怎麼樣那你要有個方案出來讓他知道部隊有看到我這一塊這樣因為離退的人員將來回來也是我們的戰力啊他還沒有整個被除役嘛是 我們會來研議因為部長你本身也從國安會秘書長到國防部"},{"start":324.857,"end":345.194,"text":"針對中國解放軍的這些動作我們有沒有一些類似的制裁的反制美國做過美國把他們的軍備局局長他們的名詞跟我們不一樣美國把軍備局局長的海外資產還有他的遷徙旅遊列為制裁對象我們國防部有沒有考慮"},{"start":347.728,"end":368.908,"text":"我想就這個部分應該如果要討論這件事情的話我覺得應該是有國安會來協調因為中國在公布這件事情的時候據我了解也不是國防部在發布他是用發言單位 他在做星戰 認知作戰國務院還有公安局"},{"start":371.009,"end":398.749,"text":"他是用發布通緝的方式他有他政治目的他把他內政化那美國曾經就中國幾個軍備相關的單位進行制裁那我不是說我們要完全這樣做我是說思考一下跟盟友特別是美國這邊來思考針對中國解放軍威脅我們國家的安全傷害區域安全的情形下大家可以合作讓這樣子的人"},{"start":401.371,"end":424.148,"text":"這些賊要抓賊頭嘛 把他點一下 制裁一下因為根據中國自己的統計資料他們的高官貴人 海外藏的資產跟親屬是一大堆啦這個我是給部長建議 這當然可以到國安會去討論所以有關這個相關單位 資通監軍 軍情局等等這當然是一個認知作戰"},{"start":424.928,"end":451.028,"text":"那我們一方面要穩定自己人的軍心另外一方面適當的反制作為讓對方被點到的人他也會難過一下像之前美國空軍學院把他們的火箭軍所有的座標連軍犬的訓練單位座標都列出來隔沒一兩個月他們火箭軍從司令副司令到這個他們叫做子戰員通通都換掉了這個是給部長做建議下一個議題我要請教這個比較嚴肅了"},{"start":453.609,"end":478.096,"text":"我們的邊線筆其實今天剛好主席給我們比較長的時間我們來研究一下邊線筆我先請教部長我們對於部隊的邊線筆有一個名詞叫做戰力域值英文叫ThresholdThreshold就是臨界點戰力域值我們自己國軍有沒有設定那個是百分之多少這個是不是請"},{"start":479.758,"end":500.212,"text":"你知道戰力域值這個是我們有關邊線比到達這個臨界點部隊就不太能夠拉出去了委員好 我首先說明我們國軍整個目標邊線比的目標是80%美軍的邊線比是多少它的臨界點在哪裡85%啦 我幫你查了啦美軍的戰力訓練跟裝備應該比我們好"},{"start":507.742,"end":527.61,"text":"可他邊線比達到85%在美軍的定義這個部隊要研究為什麼發生這個事情這個部隊是沒辦法拉出去作戰的就是戰力減損的狀態那我們如果看一下我們國軍歷年的邊線比我現在邊線比還是用整體來除其實這樣除是不對的喔我應該看飛機 空軍的他負責維修飛機的"},{"start":530.851,"end":540.813,"text":"我海軍陸戰隊的我裝甲兵的那樣看會更清楚但是以平均數來看2020年我們整體有88.572021年到87.572022年到822023年到802024年到78今年大概我看是75上下一直往下掉現在目前是78.6你看78.6比你們自己設的臨界點80%也是比較低嘛"},{"start":561.28,"end":590.163,"text":"是跟委員說明就是說兩個方面第一個方面就是說從119年開始一直到現在其實每年的我們的編制數都是越來越多的那其實我們現在的人數跟111年的那你的意思是說我們的分母變大了我的編制有擴充我有增兵編制變大了但是蘿蔔坑變多了蘿蔔雖然沒有少但是坑變大所以數字掉下來嗎"},{"start":591.664,"end":611.001,"text":"我們看細部數字 這數字是你們的喔你看一下喔 我們以士兵來看機部單位 72% 炮兵 68%你可以往下看 這數據你們都看得到兵的部分 你看防空飛彈指揮部 41%"},{"start":615.438,"end":642.2,"text":"好幾個單位55有69 67以美軍的這個叫做threshold臨界點來講85%我們沒有一個沒有一個達標耶以我們自己的80%來看是很嚴重的低喔事關的部分只有少數幾個單位勉強達標多數都在按照我們國軍的最低域值戰力域值就最低標準限以下"},{"start":643.605,"end":646.7,"text":"為什麼士兵為什麼士兵特別低"},{"start":648.098,"end":677.336,"text":"跟委員說明我分三個方面來跟委員說明我們其實今年從去年到今年所有的成效都在逐步的提升沒有啊我看到數字是一年一年往下掉啊就是說除了編制數增加之外另外就是少子化我們在109年那個少子化我們20年前21年前少生的現在也不會補生啊少子化是一個區間那不是一年兩年我現在跟你研究的情形就是說你剛才講編制放大"},{"start":677.796,"end":691.006,"text":"我可以接受但那個精準的數據因為屬於軍事機密我沒辦法去算你的編制如果增加了2000人足不足以影響這個比例我是懷疑喔以統計上來看我現在是要你找出這個問題來你看像裝甲單位"},{"start":694.549,"end":713.872,"text":"裝甲是最需要專業的 我一個戰車營要多少人我們曾經因為車長邊線筆掉到六成五以下 第九屆吧當時我們就把少衛中衛到上衛他可以延到17年 擇優加三可以到20年"},{"start":715.253,"end":741.352,"text":"讓中衛 少衛的年輕軍官他不用擔心他升不上去 領不到終身縫他有個願景 我們希望穩定嘛所以你要找出病因來 我們才能找出解方你用錯的話 會產生什麼情形邊線筆不足 第一個戰力不足第二個我們現在很多高精的裝備在操作上專業性不足的人來操作 他的危險性會升高"},{"start":742.907,"end":769.46,"text":"會有這些問題所以你們到底有沒有研究過為什麼賓的部分特別低跟委員說明我們今年的數據我用今年數據來跟委員做說明不市府在112年是5400113年是5057元但是今年到現在10月份是2600多元也就是說不市府我們到目前為止比去年同期減少1400這個叫流盈率嘛是流盈率"},{"start":769.64,"end":793.535,"text":"你們流營率沒有降 你們流營率在86%以上這是不適服的 那流營率我們部班標準是76去年部長來的時候 採取很多人性化的管理措施之後我們去年的流營率是82 今年到目前為止是86對 我印象你流營率 流營率到86 好事老兵長留久用 戰力強可是我們的邊線比較往下掉 就代表什麼問題"},{"start":794.898,"end":821.207,"text":"招募沒有募新的進來跟委員報告因為我們如果拿三月的邊線比是76.9的話現在的邊線比78.6所以我當然希望我們還是朝向更好的方向發展那是第一點 第二點的話就是說有一些當時在討論各項佳績的時候就有討論到說哪些部隊的邊線比是"},{"start":821.587,"end":839.095,"text":"所以這個就是我要最後建議的結論所以我們當時才會在這個從4月1號開始我們調升這個志願家族之外主要就著重在這個戰鬥部隊的他在不同的家族留下我們要的戰力嘛所以部長因為時間超過了我還聽說一個現象我們駝江級的邊線筆徑"},{"start":845.748,"end":848.19,"text":"低於50%有沒有這個現象 海軍這邊 駝江級我們這個最新的這算艇啦 800噸上下的 艦啦"},{"start":858.895,"end":887.437,"text":"海軍參謀長那個駝江級它整體的邊線大概會弱於大概70到72有到70到72沒有低於50低於50會嚇到應該是有些船的士兵那因為士兵數的確是有些船的士兵數會多跟少但我會按照任務來做邊背跟調整所以我建議部長跟我們軍總第一個把那一個戰力域值也就是那個臨界點在每個單位可能要把它當作一個科學來研究"},{"start":888.277,"end":915.18,"text":"美軍是85%但他每個單位還不一樣到這個單位低於那裡對戰力就有減損的時候我們該做什麼作為這是第一個第二個我們4月1號或者過去這麼多年來其實國軍的薪資我聽到很多專業的將領在講薪資不是齊頭式的問題而是透過專業的加擠在特別辛苦或特別需要或特別專業的地方透過加擠把人才留下來"},{"start":917.182,"end":944.318,"text":"這個部分其實我倒希望國防部提出一個方案跟我們委員會大家來討論我們都希望加薪但是每一分薪水每一分預算用在對的對國防有幫助的那這個我今天有關編線筆花了一點時間跟部長這邊討論我們未來繼續再探討這個話題我們希望看到你們提出一些改善的方案我想不管在招募或者不釋乎或者留營率或者是有關這個全面檢視整體檢視軍人待遇我們都會持續來進行好 謝謝 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":132,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（9時26分）謝謝主席，麻煩部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["顧部長立雄：王委員好。"],["王委員定宇：部長早。有幾個問題要請教部長，第一個，最近大概連續3波中共在點名懸賞通緝不管是軍情局、資通電軍或者心戰大隊等等，當然，作賊的喊抓賊，他們的法律也不及於臺灣，其內容拼湊而來，不見得正確，我們都知道，就不重複了。我要請教的是，畢竟他還是撈到了一些資料，我們國防部對於洩漏的管道有沒有亡羊補牢，把這個洞補上了沒有？現在是軍安總隊在管這一塊，還是哪個單位在管這一塊，是不是先請教部長？"],["顧部長立雄：我想就這些任意拼湊的相關資料，第一個，我們還是要說明，這個是屬於中共認知作戰的一部分，產生一種心理威懾。"],["王委員定宇：當然。"],["顧部長立雄：所以我們的部分，我們會要求同仁在社群媒體上面從事任何相關發布的時候，不要做任何跟他部隊……"],["王委員定宇：部長，有兩個洞要堵上，他當然還是撈一些資料，有的是從社群，有的是從個人的一些資料，這個是過去已經發生的，未來我們對於機敏單位軍事官兵身分保密的強化，你們有沒有備案出來？"],["顧部長立雄：現在會進行相關進一步的保密作為，包括研議利用、運用化名的方式等等。"],["王委員定宇：機敏單位自己知道，當然，我們不能全軍都用化名，這等於沒有化名一樣。"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["王委員定宇：就是哪些單位要用化名來保護他們的身分，我還是有一個建議，如果他在為國效力、保護國家的情形下，這些軍士官兵也是我們的弟兄，我們應該要保護他們。所以他們如果遭遇到類似的情形，不管有或沒有，對岸公布的準不準，我們不說，對於相關的保護，還有如果招致損失，應該比照軍情人員給與相關的補貼，我不知道國防部現在有沒有進行這樣的作業，或者有沒有這個打算？"],["顧部長立雄：我們會在第一時間對這些單位及官兵給予關懷輔導，並且進一步採取適當的保護措施。"],["王委員定宇：我舉一個例子，比方史順文中將現在是局長，他被點名了，他本身也許是資安專家，退下來之後找工作開始遇到困難，或者旅行的時候……我那天問國安局，我們不是INTERPOL的會員，但中國是，他把這個丟到裡面的黃色通緝名單、紅色通緝名單的時候，會使當事人在旅行上導致一些不便利及風險，我們用化名來處理也是另外一種不便利，因為他的資歷沒辦法去累積。我的意思是，就相關機敏工作人員為國家犧牲、付出，有沒有比照我剛剛講的軍情單位或者情工相關單位，給予適當補貼的計畫？有沒有這個打算？"],["顧部長立雄：我覺得這些人員發布的狀況有點不太一樣，其中有資通電軍，也有心戰大隊。"],["王委員定宇：對，心戰大隊。"],["顧部長立雄：資通電軍應該是比照情報機關，可能有相關的法制可以援引作為依據；心戰大隊的部分，並不視同情報機關……"],["王委員定宇：我今天沒有說要答案，甚至於有答案，未必要在這邊揭露，我建議部長及相關單位去研議一下，如果有這樣的情形，對於屬於情工法規定的單位，我們有沒有什麼適當的救濟或者補貼計畫？對於非情工法規範的單位，我們有沒有什麼樣的打算？至少讓弟兄知道在國軍的大家庭裡面為國效力，部隊有考慮到他們面對的風險。就這個部分，我希望國防部如果有這樣的方案，請以適當的方式讓委員會知道，我們接到一些部隊、一些想法反映的時候也可以幫你們做說明。另外……"],["顧部長立雄：事實上公布的有很多其實不是現役的人員，並不是現役的。"],["王委員定宇：對，但是他如果因為現役時候的情形招致損失，我認為還是要給予關懷，他不是因為自己的事，而是因為幫國家效力遭遇到這樣的情形，我們還是要給予適度的關懷。至於關懷的方案，本席今天沒有要求一定要怎麼樣，但你們要有一個方案出來，讓他知道部隊有看到他們這一塊，因為離退的人員將來回來後也是我們的戰力，畢竟他還沒有整個被除役。"],["顧部長立雄：我們會來研議。"],["王委員定宇：因為部長本身也是從國安會秘書長到國防部，針對中國解放軍這些動作，我們有沒有一些類似的制裁來反制？美國做過喔！美國把他們軍備局局長的海外資產還有他的遷徙、旅遊列為制裁對象，我們國防部有沒有考慮呢？"],["顧部長立雄：就這個部分，如果要討論這件事情的話，我覺得應該是由國安會來協調相關部會，因為中國在公布這件事情的時候，據我了解，也不是國防部在發布。"],["王委員定宇：他是用發言單位，而且是在做心戰、認知作戰……"],["顧部長立雄：國務院還有公安局……"],["王委員定宇：他是用發布通緝的方式，這有他的政治目的，就是要將其內政化。美國曾經就中國幾個軍備相關單位進行制裁，我不是說我們也要完全這樣做，我是說可以思考一下跟我們的盟友，特別是美國，針對中國解放軍威脅我們國家安全、傷害區域安全的情形下，大家可以合作讓這樣子的人，畢竟抓賊要抓賊頭，把他點一下、制裁一下。因為根據中國自己的統計資料，他們的高官貴人海外藏的資產跟親屬是一大堆，以上是我給部長的建議，這當然可以到國安會去討論，包括相關單位資通電軍、軍情局等等，這當然是一個認知作戰，我們一方面要穩定自己人的軍心，另外一方面適當的反制作為，讓對方被點到的人也會難過一下。像之前美國空軍學院把他們的火箭軍所有的座標，連軍犬訓練單位的座標都列出來，隔沒一、兩個月，他們火箭軍從司令、副司令到指戰員，通通都換掉了，以上是給部長做建議。","下一個我要請教的議題，這個就比較嚴肅了，就是我們的編現，今天剛好主席給我們比較長的時間，我們就來研究一下編現比，先請教部長，對於部隊的編現比有一個名詞叫做戰力閾值，英文叫threshold臨界點，而我們國軍自己有沒有設定戰力閾值？是百分之多少？戰力閾值與我們有關的就是當編現比到達臨界點，部隊就不太能夠拉出去了。"],["顧部長立雄：這部分請劉次長說明。"],["劉次長沛智：委員好。我首先說明我們國軍整個編現比的目標是80%。"],["王委員定宇：美軍的編現比是多少？他的臨界點在哪裡？"],["劉次長沛智：報告委員，這個我再去……"],["王委員定宇：85%！我幫你查了，美軍的戰力訓練跟裝備應該比我們好，可是他編現比達到85%，在美軍的定義上，這個部隊就要研究為什麼發生這個事情，畢竟這個部隊是沒辦法拉出去作戰的，就是呈戰力減損的狀態。","如果來看一下我們國軍歷年的編現比，我現在的編現比還是用整體來除，其實這樣除是不對的，應該分開看空軍負責維修飛機的、海軍陸戰隊的或是裝甲兵的，那樣看會更清楚，但是以平均數來看，2020年我們整體有88.57%；2021年到87.57%；2022年到82%；2023年到80%；2024年到78%；今年我看大概就是75%上下，就是一直往下掉。"],["劉次長沛智：目前是78.6%。"],["王委員定宇：現在是78.6%，與你們自己設的臨界點80%相較，也是比較低嘛！"],["劉次長沛智：跟委員說明，兩個方面，第一個方面，從119年開始一直到現在，其實每年我們編制數都是越來越多的，其實我們現在的人數跟……"],["王委員定宇：你的意思是說我們的分母變大了……"],["劉次長沛智：是，分母變大了……"],["王委員定宇：我的編制有擴充，有增兵所以編制變大了，蘿蔔坑變多了，蘿蔔雖然沒有少，但是坑變多，所以數字掉下來嗎？"],["劉次長沛智：是，我們逐步在做努力。"],["王委員定宇：我們來看細部數字，這數字是你們提供的，以士兵來看，現在機步單位是72%、炮兵68%，這些數據你們都看得到；士兵的部分，像防空飛彈指揮部是41%，其他好幾個單位分別是55%、69%、67%，以美軍的（threshold）臨界點85%來講，我們沒有一個達標，以我們自己的80%來看，是很嚴重的低；士官的部分，只有少數幾個單位勉強達標，多數都是按照我們國軍的最低戰力閾值，就是在最低標準線以下，請問為什麼士兵的部分特別低？"],["劉次長沛智：我分三個方面來跟委員說明，其實我們從去年到今年，所有的成效都在逐步的提升……"],["王委員定宇：沒有，我看到的數字是一年一年往下掉啊！"],["劉次長沛智：除了編制數增加之外，另外就是少子化，我們在109年……"],["王委員定宇：關於少子化，我們二十年前少生的，現在也不會補生，少子化是一個區間，不是一年、兩年的問題。我現在跟你研究這個情形，你剛才講編制放大，我可以接受，但那個精準的數據因為屬於軍事機密，我沒辦法去算，你的編制如果增加了2,000人，足不足以影響這個比例我是懷疑的，就統計上來看，我現在是要你找出這個問題來。","像裝甲單位是最需要專業的，一個戰車營要有多少人？我們曾經因為車長編現比掉到六成五以下，應該是在第9屆的時候，當時我們就把少尉、中尉到上尉服役年限，可以延到17年，擇優加3可以到20年，讓中尉、少尉的年輕軍官不用擔心他升不上去，領不到終身俸，讓他能有個願景，畢竟我們希望能讓其穩定。所以你要找出病因來，我們才能找出解方，若你用錯的話會產生什麼情形？當編現比不足，第一個，戰力不足；第二個，我們現在很多高精的裝備在操作上由專業性不足的人來操作，他的危險性會升高，會有這些問題，所以你們到底有沒有研究過，為什麼士兵的部分特別低？"],["劉次長沛智：我用今年的數據來跟委員做說明，「不適服」在112年是5,400員；113年是5,057員，但是今年到現在10月份是兩千六百多員，也就是說「不適服」到目前為止，比去年同期減少了一千四百多員。"],["王委員定宇：這個叫留營率。"],["劉次長沛智：是，留營率。"],["王委員定宇：你們留營率沒有降，你們留營率在86%以上。"],["劉次長沛智：這是不適服的，留營率的部分，我們部頒標準是76%，去年部長來的時候，採取很多人性化的管理措施之後，我們去年的留營率是82%，今年到目前為止是86%。"],["王委員定宇：對，留營率到86%是好事，老兵長留久用、戰力強，可是我們的編現比還往下掉，這就代表什麼問題？在招募上沒有募新的進來。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，如果拿3月編現比是76.9%來比的話，現在的編現比78.6%，我當然希望能朝向更好的方向發展，這是第一點；第二點，當時在討論各項加給的時候，就有討論到哪些部隊的編現比是比較低的……"],["王委員定宇：所以這就是我要建議的……"],["顧部長立雄：所以當時才會從4月1號開始，我們調升志願役加給之外，主要就著重在戰鬥部隊的……"],["王委員定宇：用不同的加給，留下我們要的戰力。"],["顧部長立雄：對、對、對。"],["王委員定宇：我的發言時間已經超過了，不過我還聽說一個現象，我們沱江級的編現比已經低於50%，海軍這邊有沒有這個現象？沱江級，我們最新的艦艇，約八百噸上下。"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，我是海軍參謀長。沱江級整體的編現大概會落於大概70到72……"],["王委員定宇：沒有低於50%？若低於50%，會讓人嚇到！"],["邱參謀長俊榮：關於您講的數字，因為的確有些船的士兵數會有多跟少，但我會按照任務來做編備跟調整。"],["王委員定宇：所以我建議部長跟我們的軍種，第一個，把戰力閾值，也就是那個臨界點，在每個單位，可能要把它當作一個科學來研究，美軍是85%，但他每個單位還不一樣，然後這個單位低於那個臨界點、對戰力有減損的時候，我們該有什麼作為，這是第一個。第二個，我們在4月1號，或者過去這麼多年來，其實國軍薪資的部分，我聽到很多專業將領在講，薪資不是齊頭式的問題，而是透過專業的加給，在特別辛苦或特別需要或特別專業的地方，透過加給把人才留下來，針對這個部分，我希望國防部提出一個方案，跟委員會大家來討論。我們都希望加薪，但是每一分薪水、每一分預算都要用在對國防有幫助的地方，我今天花了一點時間跟部長討論編現比，我們未來再繼續探討這個話題，希望看到你們提出一些改善的方案。"],["顧部長立雄：是，我想不管在招募或者「不適服」或者留營率或者是有關全面檢視、整體檢視軍人待遇方面，我們都會持續來進行，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請陳永康委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-8","speakers":["馬文君","王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","黃仁","沈伯洋","林楚茵","徐巧芯","賴士葆","林德福","王鴻薇","陳冠廷","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","林憶君"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148801_00004"}}}