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\"收\", \"start\": 214.649, \"end\": 214.93, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 214.93, \"end\": 215.49, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 215.49, \"end\": 215.63, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 215.63, \"end\": 215.81, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 215.81, \"end\": 216.25, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 216.25, \"end\": 216.411, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 216.411, \"end\": 216.571, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 216.571, \"end\": 216.671, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 216.671, \"end\": 217.071, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 217.071, \"end\": 217.231, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 217.231, \"end\": 217.311, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 217.311, \"end\": 217.571, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 217.571, \"end\": 217.711, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 217.711, \"end\": 217.831, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 217.831, \"end\": 217.872, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 217.872, \"end\": 217.892, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}]}, {\"start\": 218.892, \"end\": 232.298, \"text\": \"因為我們現在討論的是有關於這個資安會不會外洩那當然你說可能這內容都還好因為他還是違反這個相關的自動安全規定所以我們還是會來予以這個溢出\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 218.892, \"end\": 219.032, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 219.032, \"end\": 219.412, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 219.412, \"end\": 219.953, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 219.953, \"end\": 220.133, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 220.133, \"end\": 220.633, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 220.633, \"end\": 220.853, \"score\": 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231.338, \"end\": 231.518, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 231.518, \"end\": 231.638, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 231.638, \"end\": 231.698, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 231.698, \"end\": 231.838, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 231.838, \"end\": 231.958, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"予\", \"start\": 231.958, \"end\": 232.058, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 232.058, \"end\": 232.138, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"溢\", \"start\": 232.138, \"end\": 232.278, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 232.278, \"end\": 232.298, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 234.619, \"end\": 253.124, \"text\": \"是是 OK 那本來就不能夠用這個LINE我剛一直在強調就是一直在問你們就是說到底他用的是私人的手機組的群組還是公務機因為你們有區分嘛你不是有公務機跟私人的手機嗎所以這部分還不了解因為這個是有不同的層級的嚴重性耶\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 234.619, \"end\": 234.919, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 234.919, \"end\": 235.559, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 235.559, \"end\": 235.679, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 235.679, \"end\": 236.059, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 236.059, \"end\": 236.419, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 236.419, \"end\": 236.82, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 236.82, \"end\": 236.98, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 236.98, \"end\": 237.12, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 237.12, \"end\": 237.48, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 237.48, \"end\": 237.66, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"L\", \"start\": 237.66, \"end\": 237.68, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 237.68, \"end\": 237.78, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"N\", \"start\": 237.78, \"end\": 237.94, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"E\", \"start\": 237.94, 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{\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 753.304, \"end\": 753.445, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 753.445, \"end\": 753.565, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 753.565, \"end\": 753.665, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 753.665, \"end\": 753.805, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 753.805, \"end\": 753.885, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 753.885, \"end\": 753.905, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,209 --> 00:00:02,851\n謝謝主席有請顧部長請顧部長是洛陽是部長早部長有關於這個前幾天那個某個週刊這個媒體呢有踢爆就是大器海洋區的局長種種荒謬的這個行為那我有看到就是海軍司令部其實也有出面做了一些澄清\n\n2\n00:00:27,009 --> 00:00:45,242\n就是说像报道里面有提到的收集演讯时候的机密的资讯,上改春节的战备的轮值,然后是让中资的背景公司入营等等,还有营区的男女混入等等,这些都是属于不实的报道。\n\n3\n00:00:45,842 --> 00:00:51,112\n那唯一呢可能就是違反治安規定的部分呢做這個檢討試處那個參謀今天剛剛也上來了你們這個確實都已經做過調查了嗎\n\n4\n00:00:58,518 --> 00:01:17,394\n我想跟委員報告我想這樣子齁現在是一個海軍的初步調查那我已經請我們的國防部的總督察長要介入來由國防部的層級來進行一個整體的調查那我們做完整體調查以後再跟各位委員報告\n\n5\n00:01:18,266 --> 00:01:43,955\n所以目前還在調查當中因為我有看到的就是只有違反治安規定這部分會來做檢討因為指控真的是非常的嚴重結果的這些指控現在變成都是不實的目前要檢討的部分就是只有治安的這個部分那所以說因為我剛剛在提到說你們有提到就是說什麼東西不實什麼東西不實可是有一個部分我有注意到就是說它公\n\n6\n00:01:44,955 --> 00:02:02,822\n公然要求LINE來傳輸這個機密的部分我們海軍司令部這邊好像並沒有否認是不是確實有做過這個動作嗎LINE的部分當時應該是在有設一個群組但是沒有如看起來沒有如\n\n7\n00:02:03,622 --> 00:02:24,820\n外界所講的有涉及到漢光演習這個部分但是它還是違規所以是在去年的4月3號就不是今年7月喔是去年應該是前一兩年在漢光演習以前它就已經要求就是說把一個這個群組就解散了\n\n8\n00:02:28,225 --> 00:02:54,499\n對他們那時候就是跟這個艦隊指揮部這邊開會嘛然後要求把這個機密的這個資料呢傳到他私設的未加密LINE群組所以這部分是有的是不是就是說有這樣的一個群組但是在去年的4月3號就已經解散了那我想請教一下他這個他這個所謂私設的這個LINE的群組是在他自己私人的手機還是公務機\n\n9\n00:02:56,058 --> 00:03:09,606\n這個部分跟委員報告他這個公務群組其實是針對海上氣象的傳遞跟氣象通報資料的一個在他們公務群組那這個公務群組在依照規定是有簽核來執行\n\n10\n00:03:12,935 --> 00:03:37,892\n那但是就是因為在成立這個四個多月中間那局長可能覺得相關的訊息還是試射一些比較不太適合公開所以他在四個月後他把這個群組就關了那後面就會用我們這個一個另外一個管道來做所以它裡面的機密也不是汗光的機密只是一個水文收集的一個任務使用的一個運用的一個部分的一個資訊\n\n11\n00:03:38,892 --> 00:03:52,298\n因為我們現在討論的是有關於這個資安會不會外洩那當然你說可能這內容都還好因為他還是違反這個相關的自動安全規定所以我們還是會來予以這個溢出\n\n12\n00:03:54,619 --> 00:04:13,124\n是是OK那本來就不能夠用這個LINE我剛一直在強調就是一直在問你們就是說到底他用的是私人的手機組的群組還是公務機因為你們有區分嘛你不是有公務機跟私人的手機嗎所以這部分還不了解因為這個是有不同的層級的嚴重性耶\n\n13\n00:04:14,222 --> 00:04:41,684\n跟委員報告我是連六次長針對這些群組是用私人的手機那私人的手機可以按照我們的規定可以建立公務群組來做公務協調那組織的成員他是需要經過單位主管的核定裡面要有治安長還有保防官來確定我們一般做業務協調非機密資訊的內容是才可以做協調機密的資訊是不能不能夠在這個\n\n14\n00:04:43,985 --> 00:05:03,179\n群組裡面上傳的以上報告好那現在我們還是要檢討這個資安因為我剛才為什麼我會提到說公務跟這個私人我們今年9月24號通過了資通安全法的修正將政府公務及部的使用高風險中資APP的明文正式入法\n\n15\n00:05:04,039 --> 00:05:27,230\n那可是私人的手機並沒有做相關的規範嘛我們只針對公務機嘛那剛剛我們所提到的靈性的這個局長他用的是私人的手機來傳遞那私人的手機可能他會下載一些所謂的剛剛所提到的眾志的APP小紅書啦微信啊\n\n16\n00:05:29,125 --> 00:05:49,082\n之類的這些軟體也許他的私人的手機或是TikTok等等如果他用這個私人的手機傳Line雖然說你說這可能看起來沒有什麼機密的這個資料可是這個是不是會不會因為他用私人的手機所以呢很有可能這些資料會被\n\n17\n00:05:53,848 --> 00:05:58,241\n上傳到境外的這個伺服器有可能嗎\n\n18\n00:06:00,290 --> 00:06:28,490\n我們我了解現在的相關規定就剛剛連六次長有提到的就是說有公務學校的需求而設立這些群組的話那奉核定以後呢是可以使用那就傳遞跟業務有關但是沒有涉基民的資訊那另外就要含這個治安長跟保防官嘛那負責管制跟集合這個群組內容然後要所以你們認為說你們已經有充充把關了定期每月來實施清教這樣子\n\n19\n00:06:30,151 --> 00:06:51,890\n所以這個部分是有一個規範的你們覺得這個就不太可能會有把機密這個資料傳送到境外的這個疑慮你們覺得這樣是OK的但是我想各單位還是要我們定期或不定期要來落實督檢這個部分還是要來做\n\n20\n00:06:52,424 --> 00:06:58,386\n我覺得還是要加強因為你都知道說現在是有子彈的問題這個可能要來做檢討再來還有就是預算這預算的部分當然媒體有說一個200多人的單位因為它畢竟是一個幕僚單位不是一個作戰單位它是一個幕僚單位結果它在\n\n21\n00:07:17,232 --> 00:07:46,227\n這次的這個任性預算裡面他就編了17.5億的這個預算他們就去說欸到底因為說實在啦像這個大氣海洋局像如果不是因為這次爆出了這件事情的話其實很多人都不曉得所謂的我們還有一個大氣海洋局的這個存在因為他來比如說我們來做這個尋答的時候也沒有做練習之類的所以我們想知道就是說這17.5億的這個編列是合理的嗎\n\n22\n00:07:49,553 --> 00:08:11,522\n委員跟委員報告大氣局主要就是負責我們整個台海周邊我們有關軍事的海域的海洋的監偵水文探測海盜測量還有一個相關的軍用海圖圖資的一個運用還有一個即時對於我們周邊可能的颱風預警跟其他的一個整合\n\n23\n00:08:12,122 --> 00:08:31,012\n那他也負責了我們相關的一個環境的作戰資訊的一個資源所以他這個17.5基本上我們他未來因為他的這個功能跟未來他負擔的角色跟著我們目前的整個這個軍事調整跟任務的調整他就必須在未來的\n\n24\n00:08:32,172 --> 00:08:54,744\n資源情報作戰的一個能力要提升另外它有關的相關的一個圖資跟海域中心的建增所以我們預計是要針對這三個中心來做一個整建那整建的部分所需的部分大概就是主要就17.5億是有一個三個中心的一個設置\n\n25\n00:08:55,805 --> 00:09:23,231\n大概是這樣那如果委員如果比較細部我到底再往您辦公室再去對我覺得這部分可能要解開一些疑慮喔因為現在報導其實還蠻長的尤其報導還提到說他有提到說短時間幾張紙就能騙到好幾億哇這個是怎樣這個是很誇張了吧抱怨這個應該是不實報導是不實報導為什麼呢因為他這個都有證人喔都有什麼A先生B先生C先生然後D小姐之類的這些人都是我們\n\n26\n00:09:24,591 --> 00:09:49,601\n都是我們國防部內部的人員嗎這些人有知道是誰講出這些東西那如果是不實的話這些人應該也有法律上的責任吧我們現在目前也是在繼續在清查中但是有有提到他有提到有些他跟某些人比較特定查但是我們也了解他當初那個進到營區來說是一般傷情的一個水下的這一些\n\n27\n00:09:50,801 --> 00:10:12,598\n資料收集跟信號傳輸的傷情他這個傷情基本上跟我剛才講的17.5以3個案子都沒有關係也沒有直接涉入那也沒有相關那這個進入到營運這個人也從來沒有跟大氣局有任何投標或其他的其他的採購的案件那這些的都是一般的一個轉介傷情其實這兩件事情是分開\n\n28\n00:10:14,419 --> 00:10:28,276\n的確是不實的指控所以我們不方便在那邊還沒有結束以前講太多但是今天委員提到我們就必須要做一個比較跟委員做一個陳述那相關這個案子三個案子的一個建案跟規劃我們會到委員在那邊再做一個清楚的報告\n\n29\n00:10:28,979 --> 00:10:52,282\nOK我是在想說因為這報導真的對整個國軍的傾向其實是有很大的傷害尤其我們現在要省預算我們這種高額的預算我們不能說因為這件事情影響了整體所以這部分如果可以儘早調查儘早釐清儘早澄清的我想這部分都要儘早來說清楚\n\n30\n00:10:52,762 --> 00:11:14,140\n好那大家最後一題本來講到就是男女官兵請示混住的這個部分因為你們這邊說其實這個好像也是報導有誤啦好那大家這部分我們大家還希望說不管是國防部也好或各個單位我們還是希望能夠提升這個性別意識跟這個管理的這個水平\n\n31\n00:11:14,961 --> 00:11:39,228\n好那再來呢下一個我可以簡單提一下因為他這邊講是一個聘僱人員的正常的軍事官的男生女生宿舍都是合於規定分開的那他今天講是一個聘僱人員的中午休息的那本來安排是在另外一個正常的地方那個地方應該在那裡但是因為那地方有漏水\n\n32\n00:11:40,288 --> 00:11:59,345\n漏水完之後房間不太適合他們就把它調整在另外一個休息室那那個休息室不是提供住宿只是給住宿那個聘僱的人員中午吃便當休息一下的時候這邊站待那裡有警監走道也有一些安全機制他的東西也可以上鎖其實這個部分並也是不屬實際並沒有說\n\n33\n00:12:01,367 --> 00:12:27,257\n那就是一個中午休息的地方所以嗎因為我有看到你們的所謂的澄清其實都是輕輕的帶過很多細節我們也不是不瞭解只是說喔只是講的這些都是不屬實那哪裡不屬實其實沒人知道我想我們國防部的立場還是我會請我們總隊長本於勿枉勿縱的精神我們會來徹查嚴查然後再給社會一個交代\n\n34\n00:12:27,937 --> 00:12:33,905\n對因為我們覺得說這件事情確實是有重挫國軍的這個形象啦所以還是要儘早來澄清跟說明OK好以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n209\t2851\t謝謝主席有請顧部長請顧部長是 洛陽是 部長早部長有關於這個前幾天那個某個週刊這個媒體呢有踢爆就是大器海洋區的局長種種荒謬的這個行為那我有看到就是海軍司令部其實也有出面做了一些澄清\n27009\t45242\t就是说像报道里面有提到的收集演讯时候的机密的资讯,上改春节的战备的轮值,然后是让中资的背景公司入营等等,还有营区的男女混入等等,这些都是属于不实的报道。\n45842\t51112\t那唯一呢可能就是違反治安規定的部分呢做這個檢討試處那個參謀今天剛剛也上來了你們這個確實都已經做過調查了嗎\n58518\t77394\t我想跟委員報告 我想這樣子齁現在是一個海軍的初步調查那我已經請我們的國防部的總督察長要介入來由國防部的層級來進行一個整體的調查那我們做完整體調查以後再跟各位委員報告\n78266\t103955\t所以目前還在調查當中因為我有看到的就是只有違反治安規定這部分會來做檢討因為指控真的是非常的嚴重結果的這些指控現在變成都是不實的目前要檢討的部分就是只有治安的這個部分那所以說因為我剛剛在提到說你們有提到就是說什麼東西不實什麼東西不實可是有一個部分我有注意到就是說它公\n104955\t122822\t公然要求LINE來傳輸這個機密的部分我們海軍司令部這邊好像並沒有否認是不是確實有做過這個動作嗎LINE的部分當時應該是在有設一個群組但是沒有如看起來沒有如\n123622\t144820\t外界所講的有涉及到漢光演習這個部分但是它還是違規所以是在去年的4月3號就不是今年7月喔是去年 應該是前一兩年在漢光演習以前它就已經要求就是說把一個這個群組就解散了\n148225\t174499\t對 他們那時候就是跟這個艦隊指揮部這邊開會嘛然後要求把這個機密的這個資料呢傳到他私設的未加密LINE群組所以這部分是有的是不是就是說有這樣的一個群組但是在去年的4月3號就已經解散了那我想請教一下他這個他這個所謂私設的這個LINE的群組是在他自己私人的手機還是公務機\n176058\t189606\t這個部分跟委員報告他這個公務群組其實是針對海上氣象的傳遞跟氣象通報資料的一個在他們公務群組那這個公務群組在依照規定是有簽核來執行\n192935\t217892\t那但是就是因為在成立這個四個多月中間那局長可能覺得相關的訊息還是試射一些比較不太適合公開所以他在四個月後他把這個群組就關了那後面就會用我們這個一個另外一個管道來做所以它裡面的機密也不是汗光的機密只是一個水文收集的一個任務使用的一個運用的一個部分的一個資訊\n218892\t232298\t因為我們現在討論的是有關於這個資安會不會外洩那當然你說可能這內容都還好因為他還是違反這個相關的自動安全規定所以我們還是會來予以這個溢出\n234619\t253124\t是是 OK 那本來就不能夠用這個LINE我剛一直在強調就是一直在問你們就是說到底他用的是私人的手機組的群組還是公務機因為你們有區分嘛你不是有公務機跟私人的手機嗎所以這部分還不了解因為這個是有不同的層級的嚴重性耶\n254222\t281684\t跟委員報告我是連六次長針對這些群組是用私人的手機那私人的手機可以按照我們的規定可以建立公務群組來做公務協調那組織的成員他是需要經過單位主管的核定裡面要有治安長還有保防官來確定我們一般做業務協調非機密資訊的內容是才可以做協調機密的資訊是不能不能夠在這個\n283985\t303179\t群組裡面上傳的以上報告好 那現在我們還是要檢討這個資安因為我剛才為什麼我會提到說公務跟這個私人我們今年9月24號通過了資通安全法的修正將政府公務及部的使用高風險中資APP的明文正式入法\n304039\t327230\t那可是私人的手機並沒有做相關的規範嘛我們只針對公務機嘛那剛剛我們所提到的靈性的這個局長他用的是私人的手機來傳遞那私人的手機可能他會下載一些所謂的剛剛所提到的眾志的APP小紅書啦 微信啊\n329125\t349082\t之類的這些軟體也許他的私人的手機或是TikTok等等如果他用這個私人的手機傳Line雖然說你說這可能看起來沒有什麼機密的這個資料可是這個是不是會不會因為他用私人的手機所以呢很有可能這些資料會被\n353848\t358241\t上傳到境外的這個伺服器有可能嗎\n360290\t388490\t我們 我了解現在的相關規定就剛剛連六次長有提到的就是說有公務學校的需求而設立這些群組的話那奉核定以後呢是可以使用那就傳遞跟業務有關但是沒有涉基民的資訊那另外就要含這個治安長跟保防官嘛那負責管制跟集合這個群組內容然後要所以你們認為說你們已經有充充把關了定期每月來實施清教這樣子\n390151\t411890\t所以這個部分是有一個規範的你們覺得這個就不太可能會有把機密這個資料傳送到境外的這個疑慮你們覺得這樣是OK的但是我想各單位還是要我們定期或不定期要來落實督檢這個部分還是要來做\n412424\t418386\t我覺得還是要加強 因為你都知道說 現在是有子彈的問題 這個可能要來做檢討再來還有就是預算 這預算的部分當然媒體有說一個200多人的單位 因為它畢竟是一個幕僚單位不是一個作戰單位 它是一個幕僚單位 結果它在\n437232\t466227\t這次的這個任性預算裡面他就編了17.5億的這個預算他們就去說 欸 到底因為說實在啦 像這個大氣海洋局像如果不是因為這次爆出了這件事情的話其實很多人都不曉得所謂的我們還有一個大氣海洋局的這個存在因為他來 比如說我們來做這個尋答的時候也沒有做練習之類的所以我們想知道就是說這17.5億的這個編列是合理的嗎\n469553\t491522\t委員跟委員報告大氣局主要就是負責我們整個台海周邊我們有關軍事的海域的海洋的監偵水文探測海盜測量還有一個相關的軍用海圖圖資的一個運用還有一個即時對於我們周邊可能的颱風預警跟其他的一個整合\n492122\t511012\t那他也負責了我們相關的一個環境的作戰資訊的一個資源所以他這個17.5基本上我們他未來因為他的這個功能跟未來他負擔的角色跟著我們目前的整個這個軍事調整跟任務的調整他就必須在未來的\n512172\t534744\t資源情報作戰的一個能力要提升另外它有關的相關的一個圖資跟海域中心的建增所以我們預計是要針對這三個中心來做一個整建那整建的部分所需的部分大概就是主要就17.5億是有一個三個中心的一個設置\n535805\t563231\t大概是這樣那如果委員如果比較細部我到底再往您辦公室再去對我覺得這部分可能要解開一些疑慮喔因為現在報導其實還蠻長的尤其報導還提到說他有提到說短時間幾張紙就能騙到好幾億哇 這個是怎樣這個是很誇張了吧抱怨 這個應該是不實報導是不實報導 為什麼呢因為他這個都有證人喔都有什麼A先生 B先生 C先生然後D小姐之類的這些人都是我們\n564591\t589601\t都是我們國防部內部的人員嗎這些人有知道是誰講出這些東西那如果是不實的話這些人應該也有法律上的責任吧我們現在目前也是在繼續在清查中但是有有提到他有提到有些他跟某些人比較特定查但是我們也了解他當初那個進到營區來說是一般傷情的一個水下的這一些\n590801\t612598\t資料收集跟信號傳輸的傷情他這個傷情基本上跟我剛才講的17.5以3個案子都沒有關係也沒有直接涉入那也沒有相關那這個進入到營運這個人也從來沒有跟大氣局有任何投標或其他的其他的採購的案件那這些的都是一般的一個轉介傷情其實這兩件事情是分開\n614419\t628276\t的確是不實的指控所以我們不方便在那邊還沒有結束以前講太多但是今天委員提到我們就必須要做一個比較跟委員做一個陳述那相關這個案子三個案子的一個建案跟規劃我們會到委員在那邊再做一個清楚的報告\n628979\t652282\tOK 我是在想說因為這報導真的對整個國軍的傾向其實是有很大的傷害尤其我們現在要省預算我們這種高額的預算我們不能說因為這件事情影響了整體所以這部分如果可以儘早調查 儘早釐清 儘早澄清的我想這部分都要儘早來說清楚\n652762\t674140\t好那大家最後一題本來講到就是男女官兵請示混住的這個部分因為你們這邊說其實這個好像也是報導有誤啦好那大家這部分我們大家還希望說不管是國防部也好或各個單位我們還是希望能夠提升這個性別意識跟這個管理的這個水平\n674961\t699228\t好那再來呢下一個我可以簡單提一下因為他這邊講是一個聘僱人員的正常的軍事官的男生女生宿舍都是合於規定分開的那他今天講是一個聘僱人員的中午休息的那本來安排是在另外一個正常的地方那個地方應該在那裡但是因為那地方有漏水\n700288\t719345\t漏水完之後房間不太適合他們就把它調整在另外一個休息室那那個休息室不是提供住宿只是給住宿那個聘僱的人員中午吃便當休息一下的時候這邊站待那裡有警監走道也有一些安全機制他的東西也可以上鎖其實這個部分並也是不屬實際並沒有說\n721367\t747257\t那就是一個中午休息的地方所以嗎 因為我有看到你們的所謂的澄清其實都是輕輕的帶過 很多細節我們也不是不瞭解 只是說 喔 只是講的這些都是不屬實那哪裡不屬實 其實沒人知道我想我們國防部的立場還是 我會請我們總隊長本於勿枉勿縱的精神 我們會來徹查嚴查然後再給社會一個交代\n747937\t753905\t對 因為我們覺得說這件事情確實是有重挫國軍的這個形象啦所以還是要儘早來澄清跟說明OK 好 以上謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請顧部長請顧部長是 洛陽是 部長早部長有關於這個前幾天那個某個週刊這個媒體呢有踢爆就是大器海洋區的局長種種荒謬的這個行為那我有看到就是海軍司令部其實也有出面做了一些澄清\n就是说像报道里面有提到的收集演讯时候的机密的资讯,上改春节的战备的轮值,然后是让中资的背景公司入营等等,还有营区的男女混入等等,这些都是属于不实的报道。\n那唯一呢可能就是違反治安規定的部分呢做這個檢討試處那個參謀今天剛剛也上來了你們這個確實都已經做過調查了嗎\n我想跟委員報告 我想這樣子齁現在是一個海軍的初步調查那我已經請我們的國防部的總督察長要介入來由國防部的層級來進行一個整體的調查那我們做完整體調查以後再跟各位委員報告\n所以目前還在調查當中因為我有看到的就是只有違反治安規定這部分會來做檢討因為指控真的是非常的嚴重結果的這些指控現在變成都是不實的目前要檢討的部分就是只有治安的這個部分那所以說因為我剛剛在提到說你們有提到就是說什麼東西不實什麼東西不實可是有一個部分我有注意到就是說它公\n公然要求LINE來傳輸這個機密的部分我們海軍司令部這邊好像並沒有否認是不是確實有做過這個動作嗎LINE的部分當時應該是在有設一個群組但是沒有如看起來沒有如\n外界所講的有涉及到漢光演習這個部分但是它還是違規所以是在去年的4月3號就不是今年7月喔是去年 應該是前一兩年在漢光演習以前它就已經要求就是說把一個這個群組就解散了\n對 他們那時候就是跟這個艦隊指揮部這邊開會嘛然後要求把這個機密的這個資料呢傳到他私設的未加密LINE群組所以這部分是有的是不是就是說有這樣的一個群組但是在去年的4月3號就已經解散了那我想請教一下他這個他這個所謂私設的這個LINE的群組是在他自己私人的手機還是公務機\n這個部分跟委員報告他這個公務群組其實是針對海上氣象的傳遞跟氣象通報資料的一個在他們公務群組那這個公務群組在依照規定是有簽核來執行\n那但是就是因為在成立這個四個多月中間那局長可能覺得相關的訊息還是試射一些比較不太適合公開所以他在四個月後他把這個群組就關了那後面就會用我們這個一個另外一個管道來做所以它裡面的機密也不是汗光的機密只是一個水文收集的一個任務使用的一個運用的一個部分的一個資訊\n因為我們現在討論的是有關於這個資安會不會外洩那當然你說可能這內容都還好因為他還是違反這個相關的自動安全規定所以我們還是會來予以這個溢出\n是是 OK 那本來就不能夠用這個LINE我剛一直在強調就是一直在問你們就是說到底他用的是私人的手機組的群組還是公務機因為你們有區分嘛你不是有公務機跟私人的手機嗎所以這部分還不了解因為這個是有不同的層級的嚴重性耶\n跟委員報告我是連六次長針對這些群組是用私人的手機那私人的手機可以按照我們的規定可以建立公務群組來做公務協調那組織的成員他是需要經過單位主管的核定裡面要有治安長還有保防官來確定我們一般做業務協調非機密資訊的內容是才可以做協調機密的資訊是不能不能夠在這個\n群組裡面上傳的以上報告好 那現在我們還是要檢討這個資安因為我剛才為什麼我會提到說公務跟這個私人我們今年9月24號通過了資通安全法的修正將政府公務及部的使用高風險中資APP的明文正式入法\n那可是私人的手機並沒有做相關的規範嘛我們只針對公務機嘛那剛剛我們所提到的靈性的這個局長他用的是私人的手機來傳遞那私人的手機可能他會下載一些所謂的剛剛所提到的眾志的APP小紅書啦 微信啊\n之類的這些軟體也許他的私人的手機或是TikTok等等如果他用這個私人的手機傳Line雖然說你說這可能看起來沒有什麼機密的這個資料可是這個是不是會不會因為他用私人的手機所以呢很有可能這些資料會被\n上傳到境外的這個伺服器有可能嗎\n我們 我了解現在的相關規定就剛剛連六次長有提到的就是說有公務學校的需求而設立這些群組的話那奉核定以後呢是可以使用那就傳遞跟業務有關但是沒有涉基民的資訊那另外就要含這個治安長跟保防官嘛那負責管制跟集合這個群組內容然後要所以你們認為說你們已經有充充把關了定期每月來實施清教這樣子\n所以這個部分是有一個規範的你們覺得這個就不太可能會有把機密這個資料傳送到境外的這個疑慮你們覺得這樣是OK的但是我想各單位還是要我們定期或不定期要來落實督檢這個部分還是要來做\n我覺得還是要加強 因為你都知道說 現在是有子彈的問題 這個可能要來做檢討再來還有就是預算 這預算的部分當然媒體有說一個200多人的單位 因為它畢竟是一個幕僚單位不是一個作戰單位 它是一個幕僚單位 結果它在\n這次的這個任性預算裡面他就編了17.5億的這個預算他們就去說 欸 到底因為說實在啦 像這個大氣海洋局像如果不是因為這次爆出了這件事情的話其實很多人都不曉得所謂的我們還有一個大氣海洋局的這個存在因為他來 比如說我們來做這個尋答的時候也沒有做練習之類的所以我們想知道就是說這17.5億的這個編列是合理的嗎\n委員跟委員報告大氣局主要就是負責我們整個台海周邊我們有關軍事的海域的海洋的監偵水文探測海盜測量還有一個相關的軍用海圖圖資的一個運用還有一個即時對於我們周邊可能的颱風預警跟其他的一個整合\n那他也負責了我們相關的一個環境的作戰資訊的一個資源所以他這個17.5基本上我們他未來因為他的這個功能跟未來他負擔的角色跟著我們目前的整個這個軍事調整跟任務的調整他就必須在未來的\n資源情報作戰的一個能力要提升另外它有關的相關的一個圖資跟海域中心的建增所以我們預計是要針對這三個中心來做一個整建那整建的部分所需的部分大概就是主要就17.5億是有一個三個中心的一個設置\n大概是這樣那如果委員如果比較細部我到底再往您辦公室再去對我覺得這部分可能要解開一些疑慮喔因為現在報導其實還蠻長的尤其報導還提到說他有提到說短時間幾張紙就能騙到好幾億哇 這個是怎樣這個是很誇張了吧抱怨 這個應該是不實報導是不實報導 為什麼呢因為他這個都有證人喔都有什麼A先生 B先生 C先生然後D小姐之類的這些人都是我們\n都是我們國防部內部的人員嗎這些人有知道是誰講出這些東西那如果是不實的話這些人應該也有法律上的責任吧我們現在目前也是在繼續在清查中但是有有提到他有提到有些他跟某些人比較特定查但是我們也了解他當初那個進到營區來說是一般傷情的一個水下的這一些\n資料收集跟信號傳輸的傷情他這個傷情基本上跟我剛才講的17.5以3個案子都沒有關係也沒有直接涉入那也沒有相關那這個進入到營運這個人也從來沒有跟大氣局有任何投標或其他的其他的採購的案件那這些的都是一般的一個轉介傷情其實這兩件事情是分開\n的確是不實的指控所以我們不方便在那邊還沒有結束以前講太多但是今天委員提到我們就必須要做一個比較跟委員做一個陳述那相關這個案子三個案子的一個建案跟規劃我們會到委員在那邊再做一個清楚的報告\nOK 我是在想說因為這報導真的對整個國軍的傾向其實是有很大的傷害尤其我們現在要省預算我們這種高額的預算我們不能說因為這件事情影響了整體所以這部分如果可以儘早調查 儘早釐清 儘早澄清的我想這部分都要儘早來說清楚\n好那大家最後一題本來講到就是男女官兵請示混住的這個部分因為你們這邊說其實這個好像也是報導有誤啦好那大家這部分我們大家還希望說不管是國防部也好或各個單位我們還是希望能夠提升這個性別意識跟這個管理的這個水平\n好那再來呢下一個我可以簡單提一下因為他這邊講是一個聘僱人員的正常的軍事官的男生女生宿舍都是合於規定分開的那他今天講是一個聘僱人員的中午休息的那本來安排是在另外一個正常的地方那個地方應該在那裡但是因為那地方有漏水\n漏水完之後房間不太適合他們就把它調整在另外一個休息室那那個休息室不是提供住宿只是給住宿那個聘僱的人員中午吃便當休息一下的時候這邊站待那裡有警監走道也有一些安全機制他的東西也可以上鎖其實這個部分並也是不屬實際並沒有說\n那就是一個中午休息的地方所以嗎 因為我有看到你們的所謂的澄清其實都是輕輕的帶過 很多細節我們也不是不瞭解 只是說 喔 只是講的這些都是不屬實那哪裡不屬實 其實沒人知道我想我們國防部的立場還是 我會請我們總隊長本於勿枉勿縱的精神 我們會來徹查嚴查然後再給社會一個交代\n對 因為我們覺得說這件事情確實是有重挫國軍的這個形象啦所以還是要儘早來澄清跟說明OK 好 以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.209 --> 00:02.851\n謝謝主席有請顧部長請顧部長是洛陽是部長早部長有關於這個前幾天那個某個週刊這個媒體呢有踢爆就是大器海洋區的局長種種荒謬的這個行為那我有看到就是海軍司令部其實也有出面做了一些澄清\n\n00:27.009 --> 00:45.242\n就是说像报道里面有提到的收集演讯时候的机密的资讯,上改春节的战备的轮值,然后是让中资的背景公司入营等等,还有营区的男女混入等等,这些都是属于不实的报道。\n\n00:45.842 --> 00:51.112\n那唯一呢可能就是違反治安規定的部分呢做這個檢討試處那個參謀今天剛剛也上來了你們這個確實都已經做過調查了嗎\n\n00:58.518 --> 01:17.394\n我想跟委員報告我想這樣子齁現在是一個海軍的初步調查那我已經請我們的國防部的總督察長要介入來由國防部的層級來進行一個整體的調查那我們做完整體調查以後再跟各位委員報告\n\n01:18.266 --> 01:43.955\n所以目前還在調查當中因為我有看到的就是只有違反治安規定這部分會來做檢討因為指控真的是非常的嚴重結果的這些指控現在變成都是不實的目前要檢討的部分就是只有治安的這個部分那所以說因為我剛剛在提到說你們有提到就是說什麼東西不實什麼東西不實可是有一個部分我有注意到就是說它公\n\n01:44.955 --> 02:02.822\n公然要求LINE來傳輸這個機密的部分我們海軍司令部這邊好像並沒有否認是不是確實有做過這個動作嗎LINE的部分當時應該是在有設一個群組但是沒有如看起來沒有如\n\n02:03.622 --> 02:24.820\n外界所講的有涉及到漢光演習這個部分但是它還是違規所以是在去年的4月3號就不是今年7月喔是去年應該是前一兩年在漢光演習以前它就已經要求就是說把一個這個群組就解散了\n\n02:28.225 --> 02:54.499\n對他們那時候就是跟這個艦隊指揮部這邊開會嘛然後要求把這個機密的這個資料呢傳到他私設的未加密LINE群組所以這部分是有的是不是就是說有這樣的一個群組但是在去年的4月3號就已經解散了那我想請教一下他這個他這個所謂私設的這個LINE的群組是在他自己私人的手機還是公務機\n\n02:56.058 --> 03:09.606\n這個部分跟委員報告他這個公務群組其實是針對海上氣象的傳遞跟氣象通報資料的一個在他們公務群組那這個公務群組在依照規定是有簽核來執行\n\n03:12.935 --> 03:37.892\n那但是就是因為在成立這個四個多月中間那局長可能覺得相關的訊息還是試射一些比較不太適合公開所以他在四個月後他把這個群組就關了那後面就會用我們這個一個另外一個管道來做所以它裡面的機密也不是汗光的機密只是一個水文收集的一個任務使用的一個運用的一個部分的一個資訊\n\n03:38.892 --> 03:52.298\n因為我們現在討論的是有關於這個資安會不會外洩那當然你說可能這內容都還好因為他還是違反這個相關的自動安全規定所以我們還是會來予以這個溢出\n\n03:54.619 --> 04:13.124\n是是OK那本來就不能夠用這個LINE我剛一直在強調就是一直在問你們就是說到底他用的是私人的手機組的群組還是公務機因為你們有區分嘛你不是有公務機跟私人的手機嗎所以這部分還不了解因為這個是有不同的層級的嚴重性耶\n\n04:14.222 --> 04:41.684\n跟委員報告我是連六次長針對這些群組是用私人的手機那私人的手機可以按照我們的規定可以建立公務群組來做公務協調那組織的成員他是需要經過單位主管的核定裡面要有治安長還有保防官來確定我們一般做業務協調非機密資訊的內容是才可以做協調機密的資訊是不能不能夠在這個\n\n04:43.985 --> 05:03.179\n群組裡面上傳的以上報告好那現在我們還是要檢討這個資安因為我剛才為什麼我會提到說公務跟這個私人我們今年9月24號通過了資通安全法的修正將政府公務及部的使用高風險中資APP的明文正式入法\n\n05:04.039 --> 05:27.230\n那可是私人的手機並沒有做相關的規範嘛我們只針對公務機嘛那剛剛我們所提到的靈性的這個局長他用的是私人的手機來傳遞那私人的手機可能他會下載一些所謂的剛剛所提到的眾志的APP小紅書啦微信啊\n\n05:29.125 --> 05:49.082\n之類的這些軟體也許他的私人的手機或是TikTok等等如果他用這個私人的手機傳Line雖然說你說這可能看起來沒有什麼機密的這個資料可是這個是不是會不會因為他用私人的手機所以呢很有可能這些資料會被\n\n05:53.848 --> 05:58.241\n上傳到境外的這個伺服器有可能嗎\n\n06:00.290 --> 06:28.490\n我們我了解現在的相關規定就剛剛連六次長有提到的就是說有公務學校的需求而設立這些群組的話那奉核定以後呢是可以使用那就傳遞跟業務有關但是沒有涉基民的資訊那另外就要含這個治安長跟保防官嘛那負責管制跟集合這個群組內容然後要所以你們認為說你們已經有充充把關了定期每月來實施清教這樣子\n\n06:30.151 --> 06:51.890\n所以這個部分是有一個規範的你們覺得這個就不太可能會有把機密這個資料傳送到境外的這個疑慮你們覺得這樣是OK的但是我想各單位還是要我們定期或不定期要來落實督檢這個部分還是要來做\n\n06:52.424 --> 06:58.386\n我覺得還是要加強因為你都知道說現在是有子彈的問題這個可能要來做檢討再來還有就是預算這預算的部分當然媒體有說一個200多人的單位因為它畢竟是一個幕僚單位不是一個作戰單位它是一個幕僚單位結果它在\n\n07:17.232 --> 07:46.227\n這次的這個任性預算裡面他就編了17.5億的這個預算他們就去說欸到底因為說實在啦像這個大氣海洋局像如果不是因為這次爆出了這件事情的話其實很多人都不曉得所謂的我們還有一個大氣海洋局的這個存在因為他來比如說我們來做這個尋答的時候也沒有做練習之類的所以我們想知道就是說這17.5億的這個編列是合理的嗎\n\n07:49.553 --> 08:11.522\n委員跟委員報告大氣局主要就是負責我們整個台海周邊我們有關軍事的海域的海洋的監偵水文探測海盜測量還有一個相關的軍用海圖圖資的一個運用還有一個即時對於我們周邊可能的颱風預警跟其他的一個整合\n\n08:12.122 --> 08:31.012\n那他也負責了我們相關的一個環境的作戰資訊的一個資源所以他這個17.5基本上我們他未來因為他的這個功能跟未來他負擔的角色跟著我們目前的整個這個軍事調整跟任務的調整他就必須在未來的\n\n08:32.172 --> 08:54.744\n資源情報作戰的一個能力要提升另外它有關的相關的一個圖資跟海域中心的建增所以我們預計是要針對這三個中心來做一個整建那整建的部分所需的部分大概就是主要就17.5億是有一個三個中心的一個設置\n\n08:55.805 --> 09:23.231\n大概是這樣那如果委員如果比較細部我到底再往您辦公室再去對我覺得這部分可能要解開一些疑慮喔因為現在報導其實還蠻長的尤其報導還提到說他有提到說短時間幾張紙就能騙到好幾億哇這個是怎樣這個是很誇張了吧抱怨這個應該是不實報導是不實報導為什麼呢因為他這個都有證人喔都有什麼A先生B先生C先生然後D小姐之類的這些人都是我們\n\n09:24.591 --> 09:49.601\n都是我們國防部內部的人員嗎這些人有知道是誰講出這些東西那如果是不實的話這些人應該也有法律上的責任吧我們現在目前也是在繼續在清查中但是有有提到他有提到有些他跟某些人比較特定查但是我們也了解他當初那個進到營區來說是一般傷情的一個水下的這一些\n\n09:50.801 --> 10:12.598\n資料收集跟信號傳輸的傷情他這個傷情基本上跟我剛才講的17.5以3個案子都沒有關係也沒有直接涉入那也沒有相關那這個進入到營運這個人也從來沒有跟大氣局有任何投標或其他的其他的採購的案件那這些的都是一般的一個轉介傷情其實這兩件事情是分開\n\n10:14.419 --> 10:28.276\n的確是不實的指控所以我們不方便在那邊還沒有結束以前講太多但是今天委員提到我們就必須要做一個比較跟委員做一個陳述那相關這個案子三個案子的一個建案跟規劃我們會到委員在那邊再做一個清楚的報告\n\n10:28.979 --> 10:52.282\nOK我是在想說因為這報導真的對整個國軍的傾向其實是有很大的傷害尤其我們現在要省預算我們這種高額的預算我們不能說因為這件事情影響了整體所以這部分如果可以儘早調查儘早釐清儘早澄清的我想這部分都要儘早來說清楚\n\n10:52.762 --> 11:14.140\n好那大家最後一題本來講到就是男女官兵請示混住的這個部分因為你們這邊說其實這個好像也是報導有誤啦好那大家這部分我們大家還希望說不管是國防部也好或各個單位我們還是希望能夠提升這個性別意識跟這個管理的這個水平\n\n11:14.961 --> 11:39.228\n好那再來呢下一個我可以簡單提一下因為他這邊講是一個聘僱人員的正常的軍事官的男生女生宿舍都是合於規定分開的那他今天講是一個聘僱人員的中午休息的那本來安排是在另外一個正常的地方那個地方應該在那裡但是因為那地方有漏水\n\n11:40.288 --> 11:59.345\n漏水完之後房間不太適合他們就把它調整在另外一個休息室那那個休息室不是提供住宿只是給住宿那個聘僱的人員中午吃便當休息一下的時候這邊站待那裡有警監走道也有一些安全機制他的東西也可以上鎖其實這個部分並也是不屬實際並沒有說\n\n12:01.367 --> 12:27.257\n那就是一個中午休息的地方所以嗎因為我有看到你們的所謂的澄清其實都是輕輕的帶過很多細節我們也不是不瞭解只是說喔只是講的這些都是不屬實那哪裡不屬實其實沒人知道我想我們國防部的立場還是我會請我們總隊長本於勿枉勿縱的精神我們會來徹查嚴查然後再給社會一個交代\n\n12:27.937 --> 12:33.905\n對因為我們覺得說這件事情確實是有重挫國軍的這個形象啦所以還是要儘早來澄清跟說明OK好以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.209,"end":2.851,"text":"謝謝主席有請顧部長請顧部長是 洛陽是 部長早部長有關於這個前幾天那個某個週刊這個媒體呢有踢爆就是大器海洋區的局長種種荒謬的這個行為那我有看到就是海軍司令部其實也有出面做了一些澄清"},{"start":27.009,"end":45.242,"text":"就是说像报道里面有提到的收集演讯时候的机密的资讯,上改春节的战备的轮值,然后是让中资的背景公司入营等等,还有营区的男女混入等等,这些都是属于不实的报道。"},{"start":45.842,"end":51.112,"text":"那唯一呢可能就是違反治安規定的部分呢做這個檢討試處那個參謀今天剛剛也上來了你們這個確實都已經做過調查了嗎"},{"start":58.518,"end":77.394,"text":"我想跟委員報告 我想這樣子齁現在是一個海軍的初步調查那我已經請我們的國防部的總督察長要介入來由國防部的層級來進行一個整體的調查那我們做完整體調查以後再跟各位委員報告"},{"start":78.266,"end":103.955,"text":"所以目前還在調查當中因為我有看到的就是只有違反治安規定這部分會來做檢討因為指控真的是非常的嚴重結果的這些指控現在變成都是不實的目前要檢討的部分就是只有治安的這個部分那所以說因為我剛剛在提到說你們有提到就是說什麼東西不實什麼東西不實可是有一個部分我有注意到就是說它公"},{"start":104.955,"end":122.822,"text":"公然要求LINE來傳輸這個機密的部分我們海軍司令部這邊好像並沒有否認是不是確實有做過這個動作嗎LINE的部分當時應該是在有設一個群組但是沒有如看起來沒有如"},{"start":123.622,"end":144.82,"text":"外界所講的有涉及到漢光演習這個部分但是它還是違規所以是在去年的4月3號就不是今年7月喔是去年 應該是前一兩年在漢光演習以前它就已經要求就是說把一個這個群組就解散了"},{"start":148.225,"end":174.499,"text":"對 他們那時候就是跟這個艦隊指揮部這邊開會嘛然後要求把這個機密的這個資料呢傳到他私設的未加密LINE群組所以這部分是有的是不是就是說有這樣的一個群組但是在去年的4月3號就已經解散了那我想請教一下他這個他這個所謂私設的這個LINE的群組是在他自己私人的手機還是公務機"},{"start":176.058,"end":189.606,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告他這個公務群組其實是針對海上氣象的傳遞跟氣象通報資料的一個在他們公務群組那這個公務群組在依照規定是有簽核來執行"},{"start":192.935,"end":217.892,"text":"那但是就是因為在成立這個四個多月中間那局長可能覺得相關的訊息還是試射一些比較不太適合公開所以他在四個月後他把這個群組就關了那後面就會用我們這個一個另外一個管道來做所以它裡面的機密也不是汗光的機密只是一個水文收集的一個任務使用的一個運用的一個部分的一個資訊"},{"start":218.892,"end":232.298,"text":"因為我們現在討論的是有關於這個資安會不會外洩那當然你說可能這內容都還好因為他還是違反這個相關的自動安全規定所以我們還是會來予以這個溢出"},{"start":234.619,"end":253.124,"text":"是是 OK 那本來就不能夠用這個LINE我剛一直在強調就是一直在問你們就是說到底他用的是私人的手機組的群組還是公務機因為你們有區分嘛你不是有公務機跟私人的手機嗎所以這部分還不了解因為這個是有不同的層級的嚴重性耶"},{"start":254.222,"end":281.684,"text":"跟委員報告我是連六次長針對這些群組是用私人的手機那私人的手機可以按照我們的規定可以建立公務群組來做公務協調那組織的成員他是需要經過單位主管的核定裡面要有治安長還有保防官來確定我們一般做業務協調非機密資訊的內容是才可以做協調機密的資訊是不能不能夠在這個"},{"start":283.985,"end":303.179,"text":"群組裡面上傳的以上報告好 那現在我們還是要檢討這個資安因為我剛才為什麼我會提到說公務跟這個私人我們今年9月24號通過了資通安全法的修正將政府公務及部的使用高風險中資APP的明文正式入法"},{"start":304.039,"end":327.23,"text":"那可是私人的手機並沒有做相關的規範嘛我們只針對公務機嘛那剛剛我們所提到的靈性的這個局長他用的是私人的手機來傳遞那私人的手機可能他會下載一些所謂的剛剛所提到的眾志的APP小紅書啦 微信啊"},{"start":329.125,"end":349.082,"text":"之類的這些軟體也許他的私人的手機或是TikTok等等如果他用這個私人的手機傳Line雖然說你說這可能看起來沒有什麼機密的這個資料可是這個是不是會不會因為他用私人的手機所以呢很有可能這些資料會被"},{"start":353.848,"end":358.241,"text":"上傳到境外的這個伺服器有可能嗎"},{"start":360.29,"end":388.49,"text":"我們 我了解現在的相關規定就剛剛連六次長有提到的就是說有公務學校的需求而設立這些群組的話那奉核定以後呢是可以使用那就傳遞跟業務有關但是沒有涉基民的資訊那另外就要含這個治安長跟保防官嘛那負責管制跟集合這個群組內容然後要所以你們認為說你們已經有充充把關了定期每月來實施清教這樣子"},{"start":390.151,"end":411.89,"text":"所以這個部分是有一個規範的你們覺得這個就不太可能會有把機密這個資料傳送到境外的這個疑慮你們覺得這樣是OK的但是我想各單位還是要我們定期或不定期要來落實督檢這個部分還是要來做"},{"start":412.424,"end":418.386,"text":"我覺得還是要加強 因為你都知道說 現在是有子彈的問題 這個可能要來做檢討再來還有就是預算 這預算的部分當然媒體有說一個200多人的單位 因為它畢竟是一個幕僚單位不是一個作戰單位 它是一個幕僚單位 結果它在"},{"start":437.232,"end":466.227,"text":"這次的這個任性預算裡面他就編了17.5億的這個預算他們就去說 欸 到底因為說實在啦 像這個大氣海洋局像如果不是因為這次爆出了這件事情的話其實很多人都不曉得所謂的我們還有一個大氣海洋局的這個存在因為他來 比如說我們來做這個尋答的時候也沒有做練習之類的所以我們想知道就是說這17.5億的這個編列是合理的嗎"},{"start":469.553,"end":491.522,"text":"委員跟委員報告大氣局主要就是負責我們整個台海周邊我們有關軍事的海域的海洋的監偵水文探測海盜測量還有一個相關的軍用海圖圖資的一個運用還有一個即時對於我們周邊可能的颱風預警跟其他的一個整合"},{"start":492.122,"end":511.012,"text":"那他也負責了我們相關的一個環境的作戰資訊的一個資源所以他這個17.5基本上我們他未來因為他的這個功能跟未來他負擔的角色跟著我們目前的整個這個軍事調整跟任務的調整他就必須在未來的"},{"start":512.172,"end":534.744,"text":"資源情報作戰的一個能力要提升另外它有關的相關的一個圖資跟海域中心的建增所以我們預計是要針對這三個中心來做一個整建那整建的部分所需的部分大概就是主要就17.5億是有一個三個中心的一個設置"},{"start":535.805,"end":563.231,"text":"大概是這樣那如果委員如果比較細部我到底再往您辦公室再去對我覺得這部分可能要解開一些疑慮喔因為現在報導其實還蠻長的尤其報導還提到說他有提到說短時間幾張紙就能騙到好幾億哇 這個是怎樣這個是很誇張了吧抱怨 這個應該是不實報導是不實報導 為什麼呢因為他這個都有證人喔都有什麼A先生 B先生 C先生然後D小姐之類的這些人都是我們"},{"start":564.591,"end":589.601,"text":"都是我們國防部內部的人員嗎這些人有知道是誰講出這些東西那如果是不實的話這些人應該也有法律上的責任吧我們現在目前也是在繼續在清查中但是有有提到他有提到有些他跟某些人比較特定查但是我們也了解他當初那個進到營區來說是一般傷情的一個水下的這一些"},{"start":590.801,"end":612.598,"text":"資料收集跟信號傳輸的傷情他這個傷情基本上跟我剛才講的17.5以3個案子都沒有關係也沒有直接涉入那也沒有相關那這個進入到營運這個人也從來沒有跟大氣局有任何投標或其他的其他的採購的案件那這些的都是一般的一個轉介傷情其實這兩件事情是分開"},{"start":614.419,"end":628.276,"text":"的確是不實的指控所以我們不方便在那邊還沒有結束以前講太多但是今天委員提到我們就必須要做一個比較跟委員做一個陳述那相關這個案子三個案子的一個建案跟規劃我們會到委員在那邊再做一個清楚的報告"},{"start":628.979,"end":652.282,"text":"OK 我是在想說因為這報導真的對整個國軍的傾向其實是有很大的傷害尤其我們現在要省預算我們這種高額的預算我們不能說因為這件事情影響了整體所以這部分如果可以儘早調查 儘早釐清 儘早澄清的我想這部分都要儘早來說清楚"},{"start":652.762,"end":674.14,"text":"好那大家最後一題本來講到就是男女官兵請示混住的這個部分因為你們這邊說其實這個好像也是報導有誤啦好那大家這部分我們大家還希望說不管是國防部也好或各個單位我們還是希望能夠提升這個性別意識跟這個管理的這個水平"},{"start":674.961,"end":699.228,"text":"好那再來呢下一個我可以簡單提一下因為他這邊講是一個聘僱人員的正常的軍事官的男生女生宿舍都是合於規定分開的那他今天講是一個聘僱人員的中午休息的那本來安排是在另外一個正常的地方那個地方應該在那裡但是因為那地方有漏水"},{"start":700.288,"end":719.345,"text":"漏水完之後房間不太適合他們就把它調整在另外一個休息室那那個休息室不是提供住宿只是給住宿那個聘僱的人員中午吃便當休息一下的時候這邊站待那裡有警監走道也有一些安全機制他的東西也可以上鎖其實這個部分並也是不屬實際並沒有說"},{"start":721.367,"end":747.257,"text":"那就是一個中午休息的地方所以嗎 因為我有看到你們的所謂的澄清其實都是輕輕的帶過 很多細節我們也不是不瞭解 只是說 喔 只是講的這些都是不屬實那哪裡不屬實 其實沒人知道我想我們國防部的立場還是 我會請我們總隊長本於勿枉勿縱的精神 我們會來徹查嚴查然後再給社會一個交代"},{"start":747.937,"end":753.905,"text":"對 因為我們覺得說這件事情確實是有重挫國軍的這個形象啦所以還是要儘早來澄清跟說明OK 好 以上謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":219,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時56分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：羅委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：部長早。部長，有關於前幾天某個週刊踢爆大氣海洋局局長的種種荒謬行為，我看到海軍司令部其實也有出面做了一些澄清，像報導裡面有提到的蒐集演訓時候的機密資訊、擅改春節的戰備輪值，甚至讓中資背景公司入營及營區男女混住等等，這些都是屬於不實的報導，唯一可能就其違反資安規定的部分檢討適處。參謀長剛剛也上來了，你們這個確實都已經做過調查了嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，現在是海軍的初步調查，我已經請國防部總督察長要介入，由國防部的層級來進行整體的調查，我們做完整體調查以後再跟各位委員報告。"],["羅委員美玲：所以目前還在調查當中？我看到的是只有就違反資安規定的部分會來做檢討，那個指控真的是非常的嚴重，結果這些指控現在都變成是不實的，目前要檢討的就只有資安的部分。你們有提到什麼東西是不實的，可是有一個部分我有注意到，就是他公然要求用LINE來傳輸機密部分，但是海軍司令部這邊好像並沒有否認，是不是？確實有做過這個動作嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：關於LINE的部分，當時應該是有設一個群組，但是看起來沒有如外界所講的有涉及到漢光演習……"],["羅委員美玲：不是、不是、不是，我看……"],["顧部長立雄：但他還是違規，是在去年的4月3號就……"],["羅委員美玲：是去年……"],["顧部長立雄：4月3號就已經……"],["羅委員美玲：不是今年7月喔！應該是前一、兩年，在漢光演習以前，他就已經要求把一個……他們好像開了一個會議，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：這個群組就解散了，在去年的……"],["羅委員美玲：對，他們那時候就是跟艦隊指揮部開會，然後要求把這個機密資料傳到他私設的未加密LINE群組，所以這部分是有的，是不是？"],["顧部長立雄：有這樣的一個群組，但是在去年的4月3號就已經解散掉了。"],["羅委員美玲：我想請教一下，這個私設的LINE群組是在他自己私人的手機還是公務機？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：跟委員報告，這個公務群組其實是針對海上氣象傳遞跟氣象通報資料，這個公務群組是在……"],["羅委員美玲：是公務機還是私人手機？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：依照規定是有簽核來執行，但因為在成立的這四個多月中間，局長可能覺得相關的訊息還是事涉一些比較不太適合公開的，所以在4個月後，他把這個群組關了，後面就會用我們另外的管道來做，因此裡面的機密也不是漢光的機密，只是一個水文蒐集做任務使用、運用的資訊，目前我們都已經……"],["羅委員美玲：OK，我們現在要討論的是有關於資安會不會外洩，當然你說可能這內容都還好。"],["顧部長立雄：因為他還是違反相關的資通安全規定，所以我們還是會予以議處。"],["羅委員美玲：是、OK，本來就不能夠用LINE，我剛一直在問你們的是，到底他用的是私人手機組的群組還是公務機？因為你們有區分嘛！不是有公務機跟私人手機嗎？所以這部分還不了解？因為這個是有不同層級的嚴重性耶！"],["解次長駿山：跟委員報告，我是聯六次長，這些群組是用私人的手機，按照我們的規定，私人的手機可以建立公務群組來做公務協調，組織的成員是需要經過單位主官的核定，裡面要有資安長及保防官，確定一般業務協調是非機敏資訊的內容才可以做協調，機密資訊是不能在群組裡面上傳的，以上報告。"],["羅委員美玲：好，現在我們還是要檢討資安，我剛才為什麼會提到公務跟私人？因為今年9月24號通過了資通安全法的修正，將政府公務機不得使用高風險中資app明文正式入法，可是私人的手機並沒有做相關的規範，我們只針對公務機。剛剛我們所提到的林姓局長，他是用私人的手機來傳遞，私人的手機可能他會下載一些剛剛所提到的中資app，如小紅書、微信之類的這些軟體，或是TikTok等等，如果他用私人的手機傳LINE，雖然你說這可能看起來沒有什麼機敏的資料，因為他用私人手機？所以很有可能這些資料會被上傳到境外的伺服器？有可能嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：據我了解，剛剛聯六次長有提到，依現在的相關規定，有公務協調的需求而設立群組的話，奉核定後是可以使用，不過就傳遞跟業務有關，但沒有涉機敏的資訊。另外，含資安長跟保防官負責管制並稽核群組內容，然後……"],["羅委員美玲：所以你們認為已經有重重把關了？"],["顧部長立雄：定期每月實施勤教，所以對這部分是有規範的。"],["羅委員美玲：你們覺得不太可能會有機敏資料傳送到境外的疑慮？你們覺得這樣子是OK的？"],["顧部長立雄：我想各單位還需要我們定期或不定期落實督檢，這部分還是要做。"],["羅委員美玲：我覺得還是要加強，因為你知道現在有資安問題，所以這個就是要做檢討。","再來就是預算部分。媒體說一個兩百多人的單位，而且是一個幕僚單位，不是作戰單位，結果竟然在這次韌性預算裡編列了17.5億的預算，說實在的，像大氣海洋局如果不是因為這次爆出這件事情的話，其實很多人都不曉得國防部還有一個大氣海洋局的存在，因為你們來詢答時該局並未派人列席。所以我們想知道這17.5億的編列合理嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：委員好。跟委員報告，大氣局主要就是負責臺海周邊有關軍事海域的海洋監偵、水文探測、海道測量，還有軍用海圖圖資的運用，與即時對於周邊可能的颱風預警及其他的整合，同時也負責了與環境作戰資訊相關的支援。所以這17.5億，基本上，鑑於其未來功能與負擔的角色係跟隨整個軍事及任務而調整，所以在未來的支援情報作戰上的能力要提升。基於相關圖資及海域中心的監偵，所以我們預計針對這三個中心來做整建。就整建的部分來說，所需大概就是17.5億，裡頭有三個中心的設置，大概是這樣。如果委員需要比較細部的說明，我待會兒再到您辦公室針對這部分……"],["羅委員美玲：我覺得這部分可能要解開一些疑慮，因為這些報導其實還滿傷的！尤其報導還提到，短時間、幾張紙就能騙到好幾億……這個是怎樣？這個很誇張了吧？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，這應該是不實報導……"],["羅委員美玲：所以是不實報導？為什麼？都有證人了，有什麼A先生、B先生、C先生，然後D小姐之類的，這些人都是國防部內部人員嗎？知道是誰講出這些東西嗎？如果是不實的話，這些人應該也有法律上的責任吧？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：報告委員，我們現在也繼續在清查中，至於提到跟某些人比較特定查……據我們了解，當初之所以進入營區，是一般的水下資料蒐集跟信號傳輸的商情，這個商情跟我剛才講到的17.5億的三個案子沒有關係，沒有直接涉入，進入營區這個人也沒投標任何大氣局的案子或其他的採購案件，都是一般轉介商情，這兩件事情是分開的，確實是不實指控。不過在還沒結束以前，我們不方便講太多，但今天既然委員提到，我們就必須向委員陳述。至於三個中心的建案跟規劃，我們會到委員辦公室再做清楚的報告。"],["羅委員美玲：OK。這報導真的對國軍形象有很大的傷害，尤其我們現在要審預算了，又是這種高額的預算。所以不能因為這件事情影響了整體，因此，這部分如果可以儘早調查、儘早釐清、儘早澄清，那就要儘早說清楚。","最後一題本席要講到男女官兵寢室混住的部分，你們說這也是報導有誤，就這部分，我想不管是國防部或各單位，我們都希望能夠提升性別意識與管理水平。"],["邱參謀長俊榮：我可以簡單提一下，這邊講的是聘僱人員，正常的軍士官、男生女生宿舍都是合於規定且分開的，而這邊講的是聘僱人員中午休息……"],["羅委員美玲：中午休息？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：本來是安排在另外一個正常的地方，但因為那個地方漏水，漏水後房間就不太適合，於是就調整到另外的休息室，該休息室不提供住宿，只給聘僱人員中午吃便當、休息一下，可以暫待。那裡有警監，走道也有安全機制，東西也可以上鎖，其實有關這部分陳述也不屬實，那就是一個中午休息的地方，並沒有……"],["羅委員美玲：我有看到你們的澄清，不過都是輕輕帶過，很多細節我們也不了解。雖然講的這些都不屬實，但哪裡不屬實？其實沒人知道！"],["顧部長立雄：以國防部的立場，我還是會請總督察長本於勿枉勿縱的精神來徹查、嚴查，再給社會一個交代。"],["羅委員美玲：對，我們覺得這件事情確實重挫國軍形象，所以還是要儘早澄清跟說明。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請陳俊宇委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-8","speakers":["馬文君","王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","黃仁","沈伯洋","林楚茵","徐巧芯","賴士葆","林德福","王鴻薇","陳冠廷","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","林憶君"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148801_00004"}}}