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{\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 631.784, \"end\": 631.984, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 631.984, \"end\": 632.064, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 632.064, \"end\": 632.144, \"score\": 0.589}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 632.144, \"end\": 632.525, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"蠻\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 632.525, \"end\": 632.765, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 632.765, \"end\": 633.025, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 633.025, \"end\": 633.045, \"score\": 0.907}]}, {\"start\": 633.625, \"end\": 659.161, \"text\": \"但有時候我覺得以長官來講可能比如說這個價格不要太高啦就是品質OK然後價格不要太高有時候很容易就是往這種就是低價單價低的這個品項就會來做購買但如果說能夠第一個是廣大意見第二個就是其實在整個軍種裡面有些人是本來也就有設計相關的專業如果說他們能夠進來一起能夠設計的話是不是比較能夠讓大家在軍\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 633.625, \"end\": 633.745, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 633.745, \"end\": 634.045, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 634.045, 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653.798, \"end\": 653.898, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 653.898, \"end\": 654.118, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 654.118, \"end\": 654.318, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 654.318, \"end\": 655.119, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 655.119, \"end\": 655.259, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 655.259, \"end\": 655.419, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 655.419, \"end\": 656.46, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"設\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 656.46, \"end\": 656.9, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 656.9, \"end\": 657.0, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 657.0, \"end\": 657.1, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 657.1, \"end\": 657.78, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 657.78, \"end\": 658.261, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 658.261, \"end\": 658.841, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 658.841, \"end\": 658.961, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 658.961, \"end\": 659.141, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 659.141, \"end\": 659.161, \"score\": 0.412}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}]}, {\"start\": 660.443, \"end\": 665.945, \"text\": \"軍中裡面能夠感覺到能夠受到重視是不是請這個看部長或者說請相關部門回答一下\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 660.443, \"end\": 660.664, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 660.664, \"end\": 660.784, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 660.784, \"end\": 661.046, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 661.046, \"end\": 661.407, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 661.407, \"end\": 661.568, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 661.568, \"end\": 661.788, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 661.788, \"end\": 661.889, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 661.889, \"end\": 662.07, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 662.07, \"end\": 662.973, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 662.973, \"end\": 663.094, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 663.094, \"end\": 663.214, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 663.214, \"end\": 663.937, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 663.937, \"end\": 664.298, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 664.298, \"end\": 664.58, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 664.58, \"end\": 664.901, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 664.901, \"end\": 665.021, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 665.021, \"end\": 665.282, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 665.282, \"end\": 665.543, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"門\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 665.543, \"end\": 665.704, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 665.704, \"end\": 665.865, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 665.865, \"end\": 665.925, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 665.925, \"end\": 665.945, \"score\": 0.135}]}, {\"start\": 666.611, \"end\": 692.422, \"text\": \"就是說共通性的部分的話如果是共通性可以去購買那委員剛剛提到了我們善用美學的人才來遴選年輕時代期望的這個軍品的部分我想我們會來演繹就是說不管是陸海空三軍他們的這個服裝供收站所能夠納入的這個共通性的這個產品的這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 666.611, \"end\": 666.871, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 666.871, \"end\": 667.912, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 667.912, \"end\": 668.152, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 668.152, \"end\": 668.452, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 668.452, \"end\": 668.632, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": 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\"我就覺得這個因為我後面有提到這個APP的跨軍種購買的問題其實也不是說一定要因為有時候他們自己私底下買有什麼其實也很方便但今天之所以提到這一點就是因為想要讓他們有一些競爭就是說呢這一個不同的軍種之間的設計有一些競爭反而可以讓更好的產品能夠出來那這樣的話國軍兄弟姐妹也會覺得自己的意見被重視\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 749.563, \"end\": 749.723, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 749.723, \"end\": 749.823, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 749.823, \"end\": 750.143, \"score\": 0.676}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 750.143, \"end\": 750.264, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 750.264, \"end\": 750.404, \"score\": 0.687}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 750.404, \"end\": 750.524, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 750.524, \"end\": 750.604, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 750.604, \"end\": 750.744, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 750.744, \"end\": 750.884, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 750.884, \"end\": 751.484, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"危\", \"start\": 793.163, \"end\": 793.483, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 793.483, \"end\": 793.643, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 793.643, \"end\": 793.763, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 793.763, \"end\": 793.883, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 793.883, \"end\": 793.983, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 793.983, \"end\": 794.103, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 794.103, \"end\": 794.283, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 794.283, \"end\": 794.443, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 794.443, \"end\": 794.824, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 794.824, \"end\": 795.024, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 795.024, \"end\": 795.224, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 795.224, \"end\": 795.384, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 795.384, \"end\": 795.404, 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{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 945.164, \"end\": 945.224, \"score\": 0.668}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"詳\"}, {\"word\": \"細\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 945.224, \"end\": 945.244, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 945.244, \"end\": 945.344, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 945.344, \"end\": 945.564, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 945.564, \"end\": 945.684, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 945.684, \"end\": 945.804, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 945.804, \"end\": 946.504, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 946.504, \"end\": 946.524, \"score\": 0.048}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,436 --> 00:00:02,038\n謝謝主席有請顧部長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:10,695 --> 00:00:39,662\n是省委部長好因為我們今天清晨我跟定語委員才剛回來從台美的這一個國防工業會議裡面當然有很多我覺得是滿重要的事情但是因為這個是很多跟預算比較有關係等於這個省總預算的時候我們再多來討論我再問幾個比較偏向時事的問題第一個當然就是還是我們這個灰色地帶的一個侵擾我最少想問空域跟海域的\n\n3\n00:00:40,722 --> 00:01:05,132\n這個空域的有兩點我想問一下第一個當然就是在六月跟八月的時候都各有一次都是這個醫療專機這個醫療專機受到影響之後這個其實確實已經造成一個很大的困擾但我也比較好奇的一件事情就是第二個我想問的就除了我們的一般的因應措施之外就是說其實在這個海外應該看起來像是境外的一個報導\n\n4\n00:01:06,312 --> 00:01:32,419\n有特別呢去放了一些假消息說呢這一個醫療專機呢其實是專門呢要去蒐集什麼情報等等之類的這樣的一個假消息那目前來講像類似像對這樣的一個應對我是有看到這一個應該是安捷航空他自己有發聲明那國防部目前來講對第一個就是說對於這種灰色地帶的應對目前的這個處置還有像這個對方在後續呢又再放假消息的處置是大概是什麼\n\n5\n00:01:33,554 --> 00:01:50,676\n我想那相關的那個事件的情況是不是先由秦市市長先做一個說明委員好我是秦市市長我們掌握到了當天的確有這個事情發生那這架飛機它是在民航的管制底下因為是安捷航空\n\n6\n00:01:51,297 --> 00:02:17,707\n他原本就是要到金門地區去做這樣子的訓練前後的確有發生過這個事情不過這架飛機他是按照民用的飛航規則在民航的管制底下進行飛行所以我們也不認為說這樣子的在民用的飛機遭受到中共的軍機採取這樣子的舉措是適當的跟委員做簡單的報告\n\n7\n00:02:18,608 --> 00:02:20,715\n那我們有相對的這個\n\n8\n00:02:22,834 --> 00:02:49,231\n飛機有飛上去做一個映出因為這個事情就是說這讓我回想到這個去年那個金門的也是這個禁限制水域的這個事件那當時對方其實也是用了虛假的消息去定義說當時的這個金門水域所發生的事情所以藉此的去擴張他的法律的權利這一次雖然他們沒有做一樣的事情但前置作業其實是非常類似的所以我覺得可能今後對於類似這樣的一個事情的一個處於我覺得應該是特別重要\n\n9\n00:02:49,731 --> 00:03:08,651\n但第二件事情就跟海域有關其實跟這件事情很類似就是說在這個黃岩島這也是應該就是上個禮拜的事情而已那這個黃岩島呢現在可以看到有這個兩艘中國海軍軍艦四艘海警船以及數艘這個民兵那前面這個陳永康委員也有提到一直到今天為止其實都還有類似的一個活動\n\n10\n00:03:09,432 --> 00:03:33,711\n那現在他就是有這種三位一體這樣的一個運用那我有看到因為在這次夜報裡面有特別提到一件事情就是1月他有去修這個國軍經常戰備時期突發狀況的一個處置規定是否能夠先稍微說明一下類似這樣一個處置規定不用詳細的內容因為我看到夜報裡面有講到這一個所謂的高中低風險的這一個分野遇到不同的風險的狀況應該要怎麼辦\n\n11\n00:03:35,512 --> 00:03:56,801\n但是就是說以這樣的一個狀況來講會不會陷入到像不管是我去年講的那個事情還有像剛剛安潔航空所遇到的事情就是當對方用虛假的消息去劃定說這是一個什麼事件的時候我們有沒有把這一種對方定義成什麼事件藉此來擴張法律權利的這一件事情放到相關的這一個處置規定\n\n12\n00:04:00,079 --> 00:04:22,554\n報告委員我是座議事次長跟委員報告剛剛委員所提的這個突發狀況處置規定我們就是因應今年這兩年開始中共灰色地帶應處的這種狀況跟他的情勢越來越多那所以我們就律定了一個叫做授權舉證跟在突發狀況處置規定裡面去律定他交戰規則等相關的規範會區分\n\n13\n00:04:26,395 --> 00:04:46,979\n範圍跟類型那授權於我們戰備部隊管制的作戰單位比如說劍指部跟空作部可以依據他所面臨的狀況去採取及時的處置作為那當然因為中共不斷的在做一些模擬跟應用他的能力上的增長去做一些轉變所以我們每年都會針對不同的狀況去做修班像我們現在也開始在彙整各單位所面臨到一些在我們目前看到比較\n\n14\n00:04:53,541 --> 00:05:19,520\n異常的一些動態會持續納進來做修班這部分跟委員做說明對因為這個就是像你剛剛提到就是說譬如說它的範圍是什麼樣子它的類型是什麼樣子所以我們相關應該要有什麼處置對不對我們在去年的那一個就是金門水域發生這一個事件的時候在當時那時候部長還沒有上任那時候還是邱部長那時候我就有提到說是不是應該要有這樣的一個處置規定那離現在應該也有超過一年半的時間\n\n15\n00:05:21,001 --> 00:05:44,621\n當時其實也有到這個辦公室有先討論了一番因為我知道這個處事規定的詳細狀況不適合在這個公開場合講但那個時候我除了提醒要一定的規範之外因為這樣才有一個SOP我們才知道要怎麼去應處另外一個最重要的事情就是因為對方都會去利用這樣的一個情勢去放消息比如說他今天在做這個事情的時候他知道我們要怎麼去反應\n\n16\n00:05:46,263 --> 00:06:02,123\n結果他在不管是在他們的媒體上面或者說透過台灣去放一些消息說其實是台灣這邊在做一個挑釁什麼等等之類的就是他會有一個政治的因素放在跟這一個情勢的發生是把它扣在一起的\n\n17\n00:06:02,943 --> 00:06:27,002\n這個時候呢像去年的時候他還甚至放了這個假的像海委會的這個假的這個對話記錄啊什麼等等之類的這一些事情它是屬於政治它不是在一開始講的這種範圍還有這個類型裡面但它卻是會遇到的所以遇到的時候呢比如說像我們的比如說新站的單位比如說我們的政案單位應該要怎麼運出是不是應該也要把這個納入裡面這樣我們在這個整體的規範的時候才可能會比較順暢\n\n18\n00:06:32,168 --> 00:06:48,502\n我想第一個當然就國安部的部分我們每天會有一些暫停請的一個匯報會來就這個部分做一個應酬另外剛剛委員提到其實我覺得是有兩個面向一個是認知戰一個是法律戰\n\n19\n00:06:49,403 --> 00:07:08,508\n在認知戰的這個部分的話因為這個相關的部分可能有一些是涉及到跟海巡也涉及到甚至其他的部會所以在認知戰的這個回應上面不只是介紹國安部所以國安會會就這個部分來主導會做一些關於反認知作戰的一些\n\n20\n00:07:09,708 --> 00:07:36,743\n另外法律戰的部分也就是說公運這種灰色地帶的這個情擾它事實上是要形成一種台海內海化的這種一種長臂管轄的一種概念來不管是之前之中電軍這種公佈或者是這種海域有關這個海警船或者民兵漁船這種然後軍艦圍繞台灣這種的都涉及到這個法律戰所以這些法律戰的這些相關作為我們要來讓這個\n\n21\n00:07:38,526 --> 00:07:58,187\n尤其是國際社會也來清楚的話就法律戰的部分現在正在研擬相關的這些我們引用相關的這些國際法的規範我會來進行一些法律戰的反制作為謝謝部長因為部長也是法律專家因為這個我在這個國際的論壇上面在討論這些事情的時候我比較擔心的事情就是\n\n22\n00:07:58,647 --> 00:08:27,095\n今天我們講到跟認知有關的或者說譬如說輿論有關的有可能他國安會相關的國安局他們都可能會有相關的一些跨部會的討論但一旦牽扯到跟法律利率相關的不可能是法務部出來的他有可能會請到跟外交部有關但其實並沒有一個主責的部門去弄法律戰所以各國現在在遇到中國尤其像譬如說中文跟菲律賓他們遇到這種法律戰的時候畢竟第一線遇到的就還是要嘛就是海巡要嘛就是國軍\n\n23\n00:08:28,115 --> 00:08:51,712\n那這個時候到底是誰才是應該主管這件事情誰應該去劃定這一個範圍其實在每一個國家都會出現一個有點不明確就不知道到底應該是誰來做所以這件事情如果後續能夠有更多的討論我覺得應該是樂見其成我們跟國安會已經有一個一段時間的討論這個部分國安會會結合相關的部委包括外交部也好包括\n\n24\n00:08:52,813 --> 00:09:08,208\n海委會也好包括我們也好還有其他部會我想都會有一個我們會有一個法律戰的應處作為會出來但我想這個部分可能要私下再跟委員做個說明沒有問題\n\n25\n00:09:09,509 --> 00:09:26,472\n接下來還有一個就其他一些比較細節也是跟這一次這個我看夜報比較有關係的就是說這個是跟國軍服裝有關因為我們現在大家就講因為這一次在這一個不管是在救災等等之類的最近國軍的形象國人的認知看起來是有一個顯著的提升\n\n26\n00:09:27,052 --> 00:09:41,977\n但是在內部的這個士氣有時候我覺得也是見為知著那我在跟幾個國軍的這個兄弟姐妹在這個聊天的時候就發現他們對於這些這個服裝的這個設計我看基層的反應有時候不是那麼的好\n\n27\n00:09:42,757 --> 00:10:07,612\n就是說有一些我就不要講軍種有一些軍種是大家這個在購買上意願是比較高但有一些大家購買意願稍低一點稍低一點可能是因為覺得那個Logo設計的不是很好看又或者說它的字體過大等等之類的導致它今天要去連是穿的意願不要說買如果即使它今天買了連那個穿的意願在有一些軍種是比較低\n\n28\n00:10:08,252 --> 00:10:33,045\n我在問的過程當中當然很多人會覺得說因為他們的意見沒有被反映到有時候他們對於這個現在我們這個對於美學大家可以看到我們這個在每一次國慶的時候大家對於美學的討論其實也很多這個時候的基層有些人他對於這些到底什麼叫好看什麼不好看哪一個色號哪樣的一些字體哪樣的設計會比較好大家其實會有一些想法如果能夠廣納這些意見我覺得也是蠻重要的\n\n29\n00:10:33,625 --> 00:10:59,161\n但有時候我覺得以長官來講可能比如說這個價格不要太高啦就是品質OK然後價格不要太高有時候很容易就是往這種就是低價單價低的這個品項就會來做購買但如果說能夠第一個是廣大意見第二個就是其實在整個軍種裡面有些人是本來也就有設計相關的專業如果說他們能夠進來一起能夠設計的話是不是比較能夠讓大家在軍\n\n30\n00:11:00,443 --> 00:11:05,945\n軍中裡面能夠感覺到能夠受到重視是不是請這個看部長或者說請相關部門回答一下\n\n31\n00:11:06,611 --> 00:11:32,422\n就是說共通性的部分的話如果是共通性可以去購買那委員剛剛提到了我們善用美學的人才來遴選年輕時代期望的這個軍品的部分我想我們會來演繹就是說不管是陸海空三軍他們的這個服裝供收站所能夠納入的這個共通性的這個產品的這個\n\n32\n00:11:34,002 --> 00:11:50,111\n更好的一個設計那剛剛有講到說有有些軍種可能比較好有些軍種可能比較好那我想我們會來檢討看看是讓這個整個的這個讓這些官司兵們能夠\n\n33\n00:11:53,573 --> 00:12:13,846\n我們有其一的一個美學的一個展現讓官兵覺得不管是你哪一個軍種都能夠買到他覺得不錯的一個產品但是有一些是制式的服裝的部分這些可能就沒有辦法說是通用這樣子\n\n34\n00:12:14,306 --> 00:12:25,959\n那這個要看你是屬於哪個菌種但是菌種本身它的也應該是可以來強化我這邊問的比較像是原來的運動服那些的\n\n35\n00:12:29,563 --> 00:12:49,795\n我就覺得這個因為我後面有提到這個APP的跨軍種購買的問題其實也不是說一定要因為有時候他們自己私底下買有什麼其實也很方便但今天之所以提到這一點就是因為想要讓他們有一些競爭就是說呢這一個不同的軍種之間的設計有一些競爭反而可以讓更好的產品能夠出來那這樣的話國軍兄弟姐妹也會覺得自己的意見被重視\n\n36\n00:12:51,456 --> 00:13:17,024\n這一個就延伸到下一個問題這個在之前我忘了是在什麼時候我有問過類似的問題就是這些我們很多有一些留營意願的剛剛其實定宇文也有提到一些這邊我想問的就是因為我們真的蠻多他到國外去受訓回來之後我這一次也是在跟他們聊的時候我就發現一個我覺得是一個比較危險的事情就是很多人都甚至想說想說要賠錢但他想離開\n\n37\n00:13:19,585 --> 00:13:42,017\n那我說如果說只是一兩個這樣的一個個案就算了但是已經聽到為數不少那我會很擔心就是說這種事情慢慢一直發生的話其實對整個世紀也會有很大的影響那這個監察院在2023年的時候其實也有做過這個相關的報告我那時候質詢的時候是在那個2023年報告出來沒多久之後我問那時候國防部有說有會想辦法\n\n38\n00:13:42,917 --> 00:14:02,865\n要讓這些在海外訓練的人才回到這邊之後呢能夠盡量能夠讓他融入到軍中不然的話我之前在這個之前我在問的時候我就發現他們很多人在國外受訓然後回來之後結果最多是叫他們做翻譯啦做傳譯啦因為他們英文好但是我總覺得他們能夠他們到國外做訓練這件事情\n\n39\n00:14:03,385 --> 00:14:16,749\n最主要應該不是他們英文好而已而是他們有對於這個不管是先進的這些技術先進的文化管理的方式等等之類的能夠把這個帶入到國軍做更好的改革我看到業報其實這次有講到DIO就是那個創新\n\n40\n00:14:19,330 --> 00:14:45,727\n已經比去年更好了因為他有更多的跟這些不管是採購上的合作啊什麼等等之類這個進步看到了但關於這一種留外官兵他不管是到外面這個有派職過的或者有訓練過的能不能夠讓他回來到國軍能夠做更好的整合這個部分這一年來大概做了哪些努力各位委員報告我想我們現在尤其我這邊都相關的很重視這些國外軍校畢業生的這個\n\n41\n00:14:46,827 --> 00:15:02,780\n循正常的金管來歷練的這個部分所以我們國防部本身就每半年會做一次控這個金管的一個控管所以半年就會那現在都掌握有譬如說近兩百個人所以這個近兩百個人他的\n\n42\n00:15:04,261 --> 00:15:25,051\n尋這個金管的這個歷練來讓它這個能夠逐步在軍中能夠成長我想不會把它當作這個翻譯來使用這個狀況我們已經是每半年要控管一次那也請各軍種要注意到這個狀況好因為時間關係這個主席再個20秒那希望就是說大概有一個簡單的統計\n\n43\n00:15:26,592 --> 00:15:46,524\n就是說這一些人到時候留意這個狀況什麼等等之類的是不是在這兩個禮拜給我這個資料希望未來以後也不要再發生因為現在又聽到一些我就有點擔心我想因為這個可能不以公開來說明這些相關人員我們私下可以就這些管控的部分跟委員做一個詳細的說明好謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1436\t2038\t謝謝主席 有請顧部長 謝謝\n10695\t39662\t是 省委部長好因為我們今天清晨我跟定語委員才剛回來從台美的這一個國防工業會議裡面當然有很多我覺得是滿重要的事情但是因為這個是很多跟預算比較有關係等於這個省總預算的時候我們再多來討論我再問幾個比較偏向時事的問題第一個當然就是還是我們這個灰色地帶的一個侵擾我最少想問空域跟海域的\n40722\t65132\t這個空域的有兩點我想問一下第一個當然就是在六月跟八月的時候都各有一次都是這個醫療專機這個醫療專機受到影響之後這個其實確實已經造成一個很大的困擾但我也比較好奇的一件事情就是第二個我想問的就除了我們的一般的因應措施之外就是說其實在這個海外應該看起來像是境外的一個報導\n66312\t92419\t有特別呢去放了一些假消息說呢這一個醫療專機呢其實是專門呢要去蒐集什麼情報等等之類的這樣的一個假消息那目前來講像類似像對這樣的一個應對我是有看到這一個應該是安捷航空他自己有發聲明那國防部目前來講對第一個就是說對於這種灰色地帶的應對目前的這個處置還有像這個對方在後續呢又再放假消息的處置是大概是什麼\n93554\t110676\t我想那相關的那個事件的情況是不是先由秦市市長先做一個說明委員好我是秦市市長我們掌握到了當天的確有這個事情發生那這架飛機它是在民航的管制底下因為是安捷航空\n111297\t137707\t他原本就是要到金門地區去做這樣子的訓練前後的確有發生過這個事情不過這架飛機他是按照民用的飛航規則在民航的管制底下進行飛行所以我們也不認為說這樣子的在民用的飛機遭受到中共的軍機採取這樣子的舉措是適當的跟委員做簡單的報告\n138608\t140715\t那我們有相對的這個\n142834\t169231\t飛機有飛上去做一個映出因為這個事情就是說這讓我回想到這個去年那個金門的也是這個禁限制水域的這個事件那當時對方其實也是用了虛假的消息去定義說當時的這個金門水域所發生的事情所以藉此的去擴張他的法律的權利這一次雖然他們沒有做一樣的事情但前置作業其實是非常類似的所以我覺得可能今後對於類似這樣的一個事情的一個處於我覺得應該是特別重要\n169731\t188651\t但第二件事情就跟海域有關其實跟這件事情很類似就是說在這個黃岩島這也是應該就是上個禮拜的事情而已那這個黃岩島呢現在可以看到有這個兩艘中國海軍軍艦四艘海警船以及數艘這個民兵那前面這個陳永康委員也有提到一直到今天為止其實都還有類似的一個活動\n189432\t213711\t那現在他就是有這種三位一體這樣的一個運用那我有看到因為在這次夜報裡面有特別提到一件事情就是1月他有去修這個國軍經常戰備時期突發狀況的一個處置規定是否能夠先稍微說明一下類似這樣一個處置規定不用詳細的內容因為我看到夜報裡面有講到這一個所謂的高中低風險的這一個分野遇到不同的風險的狀況應該要怎麼辦\n215512\t236801\t但是就是說以這樣的一個狀況來講會不會陷入到像不管是我去年講的那個事情還有像剛剛安潔航空所遇到的事情就是當對方用虛假的消息去劃定說這是一個什麼事件的時候我們有沒有把這一種對方定義成什麼事件藉此來擴張法律權利的這一件事情放到相關的這一個處置規定\n240079\t262554\t報告委員我是座議事次長跟委員報告剛剛委員所提的這個突發狀況處置規定我們就是因應今年這兩年開始中共灰色地帶應處的這種狀況跟他的情勢越來越多那所以我們就律定了一個叫做授權舉證跟在突發狀況處置規定裡面去律定他交戰規則等相關的規範會區分\n266395\t286979\t範圍跟類型那授權於我們戰備部隊管制的作戰單位比如說劍指部跟空作部可以依據他所面臨的狀況去採取及時的處置作為那當然因為中共不斷的在做一些模擬跟應用他的能力上的增長去做一些轉變所以我們每年都會針對不同的狀況去做修班像我們現在也開始在彙整各單位所面臨到一些在我們目前看到比較\n293541\t319520\t異常的一些動態會持續納進來做修班這部分跟委員做說明對 因為這個就是像你剛剛提到就是說譬如說它的範圍是什麼樣子它的類型是什麼樣子所以我們相關應該要有什麼處置對不對我們在去年的那一個就是金門水域發生這一個事件的時候在當時那時候部長還沒有上任那時候還是邱部長那時候我就有提到說是不是應該要有這樣的一個處置規定那離現在應該也有超過一年半的時間\n321001\t344621\t當時其實也有到這個辦公室有先討論了一番因為我知道這個處事規定的詳細狀況不適合在這個公開場合講但那個時候我除了提醒要一定的規範之外因為這樣才有一個SOP我們才知道要怎麼去應處另外一個最重要的事情就是因為對方都會去利用這樣的一個情勢去放消息比如說他今天在做這個事情的時候他知道我們要怎麼去反應\n346263\t362123\t結果他在不管是在他們的媒體上面或者說透過台灣去放一些消息說其實是台灣這邊在做一個挑釁什麼等等之類的就是他會有一個政治的因素放在跟這一個情勢的發生是把它扣在一起的\n362943\t387002\t這個時候呢像去年的時候他還甚至放了這個假的像海委會的這個假的這個對話記錄啊什麼等等之類的這一些事情它是屬於政治它不是在一開始講的這種範圍還有這個類型裡面但它卻是會遇到的所以遇到的時候呢比如說像我們的比如說新站的單位比如說我們的政案單位應該要怎麼運出是不是應該也要把這個納入裡面這樣我們在這個整體的規範的時候才可能會比較順暢\n392168\t408502\t我想第一個當然就國安部的部分我們每天會有一些暫停請的一個匯報會來就這個部分做一個應酬另外剛剛委員提到其實我覺得是有兩個面向一個是認知戰一個是法律戰\n409403\t428508\t在認知戰的這個部分的話因為這個相關的部分可能有一些是涉及到跟海巡也涉及到甚至其他的部會所以在認知戰的這個回應上面不只是介紹國安部所以國安會會就這個部分來主導會做一些關於反認知作戰的一些\n429708\t456743\t另外法律戰的部分也就是說公運這種灰色地帶的這個情擾它事實上是要形成一種台海內海化的這種一種長臂管轄的一種概念來不管是之前之中電軍這種公佈或者是這種海域有關這個海警船或者民兵漁船這種然後軍艦圍繞台灣這種的都涉及到這個法律戰所以這些法律戰的這些相關作為我們要來讓這個\n458526\t478187\t尤其是國際社會也來清楚的話就法律戰的部分現在正在研擬相關的這些我們引用相關的這些國際法的規範我會來進行一些法律戰的反制作為謝謝部長因為部長也是法律專家因為這個我在這個國際的論壇上面在討論這些事情的時候我比較擔心的事情就是\n478647\t507095\t今天我們講到跟認知有關的或者說譬如說輿論有關的有可能他國安會相關的國安局他們都可能會有相關的一些跨部會的討論但一旦牽扯到跟法律利率相關的不可能是法務部出來的他有可能會請到跟外交部有關但其實並沒有一個主責的部門去弄法律戰所以各國現在在遇到中國尤其像譬如說中文跟菲律賓他們遇到這種法律戰的時候畢竟第一線遇到的就還是要嘛就是海巡要嘛就是國軍\n508115\t531712\t那這個時候到底是誰才是應該主管這件事情誰應該去劃定這一個範圍其實在每一個國家都會出現一個有點不明確就不知道到底應該是誰來做所以這件事情如果後續能夠有更多的討論我覺得應該是樂見其成我們跟國安會已經有一個一段時間的討論這個部分國安會會結合相關的部委包括外交部也好包括\n532813\t548208\t海委會也好包括我們也好還有其他部會我想都會有一個我們會有一個法律戰的應處作為會出來但我想這個部分可能要私下再跟委員做個說明沒有問題\n549509\t566472\t接下來還有一個就其他一些比較細節也是跟這一次這個我看夜報比較有關係的就是說這個是跟國軍服裝有關因為我們現在大家就講因為這一次在這一個不管是在救災等等之類的最近國軍的形象國人的認知看起來是有一個顯著的提升\n567052\t581977\t但是在內部的這個士氣有時候我覺得也是見為知著那我在跟幾個國軍的這個兄弟姐妹在這個聊天的時候就發現他們對於這些這個服裝的這個設計我看基層的反應有時候不是那麼的好\n582757\t607612\t就是說有一些我就不要講軍種有一些軍種是大家這個在購買上意願是比較高但有一些大家購買意願稍低一點稍低一點可能是因為覺得那個Logo設計的不是很好看又或者說它的字體過大等等之類的導致它今天要去連是穿的意願不要說買如果即使它今天買了連那個穿的意願在有一些軍種是比較低\n608252\t633045\t我在問的過程當中當然很多人會覺得說因為他們的意見沒有被反映到有時候他們對於這個現在我們這個對於美學大家可以看到我們這個在每一次國慶的時候大家對於美學的討論其實也很多這個時候的基層有些人他對於這些到底什麼叫好看什麼不好看哪一個色號哪樣的一些字體哪樣的設計會比較好大家其實會有一些想法如果能夠廣納這些意見我覺得也是蠻重要的\n633625\t659161\t但有時候我覺得以長官來講可能比如說這個價格不要太高啦就是品質OK然後價格不要太高有時候很容易就是往這種就是低價單價低的這個品項就會來做購買但如果說能夠第一個是廣大意見第二個就是其實在整個軍種裡面有些人是本來也就有設計相關的專業如果說他們能夠進來一起能夠設計的話是不是比較能夠讓大家在軍\n660443\t665945\t軍中裡面能夠感覺到能夠受到重視是不是請這個看部長或者說請相關部門回答一下\n666611\t692422\t就是說共通性的部分的話如果是共通性可以去購買那委員剛剛提到了我們善用美學的人才來遴選年輕時代期望的這個軍品的部分我想我們會來演繹就是說不管是陸海空三軍他們的這個服裝供收站所能夠納入的這個共通性的這個產品的這個\n694002\t710111\t更好的一個設計那剛剛有講到說有有些軍種可能比較好有些軍種可能比較好那我想我們會來檢討看看是讓這個整個的這個讓這些官司兵們能夠\n713573\t733846\t我們有其一的一個美學的一個展現讓官兵覺得不管是你哪一個軍種都能夠買到他覺得不錯的一個產品但是有一些是制式的服裝的部分這些可能就沒有辦法說是通用這樣子\n734306\t745959\t那這個要看你是屬於哪個菌種但是菌種本身它的也應該是可以來強化我這邊問的比較像是原來的運動服那些的\n749563\t769795\t我就覺得這個因為我後面有提到這個APP的跨軍種購買的問題其實也不是說一定要因為有時候他們自己私底下買有什麼其實也很方便但今天之所以提到這一點就是因為想要讓他們有一些競爭就是說呢這一個不同的軍種之間的設計有一些競爭反而可以讓更好的產品能夠出來那這樣的話國軍兄弟姐妹也會覺得自己的意見被重視\n771456\t797024\t這一個就延伸到下一個問題這個在之前我忘了是在什麼時候我有問過類似的問題就是這些我們很多有一些留營意願的剛剛其實定宇文也有提到一些這邊我想問的就是因為我們真的蠻多他到國外去受訓回來之後我這一次也是在跟他們聊的時候我就發現一個我覺得是一個比較危險的事情就是很多人都甚至想說想說要賠錢但他想離開\n799585\t822017\t那我說如果說只是一兩個這樣的一個個案就算了但是已經聽到為數不少那我會很擔心就是說這種事情慢慢一直發生的話其實對整個世紀也會有很大的影響那這個監察院在2023年的時候其實也有做過這個相關的報告我那時候質詢的時候是在那個2023年報告出來沒多久之後我問那時候國防部有說有會想辦法\n822917\t842865\t要讓這些在海外訓練的人才回到這邊之後呢能夠盡量能夠讓他融入到軍中不然的話我之前在這個之前我在問的時候我就發現他們很多人在國外受訓然後回來之後結果最多是叫他們做翻譯啦做傳譯啦因為他們英文好但是我總覺得他們能夠他們到國外做訓練這件事情\n843385\t856749\t最主要應該不是他們英文好而已而是他們有對於這個不管是先進的這些技術先進的文化管理的方式等等之類的能夠把這個帶入到國軍做更好的改革我看到業報其實這次有講到DIO就是那個創新\n859330\t885727\t已經比去年更好了因為他有更多的跟這些不管是採購上的合作啊什麼等等之類這個進步看到了但關於這一種留外官兵他不管是到外面這個有派職過的或者有訓練過的能不能夠讓他回來到國軍能夠做更好的整合這個部分這一年來大概做了哪些努力各位委員報告我想我們現在尤其我這邊都相關的很重視這些國外軍校畢業生的這個\n886827\t902780\t循正常的金管來歷練的這個部分所以我們國防部本身就每半年會做一次控這個金管的一個控管所以半年就會那現在都掌握有譬如說近兩百個人所以這個近兩百個人他的\n904261\t925051\t尋這個金管的這個歷練來讓它這個能夠逐步在軍中能夠成長我想不會把它當作這個翻譯來使用這個狀況我們已經是每半年要控管一次那也請各軍種要注意到這個狀況好 因為時間關係這個主席再個20秒那希望就是說大概有一個簡單的統計\n926592\t946524\t就是說這一些人到時候留意這個狀況什麼等等之類的是不是在這兩個禮拜給我這個資料希望未來以後也不要再發生因為現在又聽到一些我就有點擔心我想因為這個可能不以公開來說明這些相關人員我們私下可以就這些管控的部分跟委員做一個詳細的說明好 謝謝部長謝謝主席好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請顧部長 謝謝\n是 省委部長好因為我們今天清晨我跟定語委員才剛回來從台美的這一個國防工業會議裡面當然有很多我覺得是滿重要的事情但是因為這個是很多跟預算比較有關係等於這個省總預算的時候我們再多來討論我再問幾個比較偏向時事的問題第一個當然就是還是我們這個灰色地帶的一個侵擾我最少想問空域跟海域的\n這個空域的有兩點我想問一下第一個當然就是在六月跟八月的時候都各有一次都是這個醫療專機這個醫療專機受到影響之後這個其實確實已經造成一個很大的困擾但我也比較好奇的一件事情就是第二個我想問的就除了我們的一般的因應措施之外就是說其實在這個海外應該看起來像是境外的一個報導\n有特別呢去放了一些假消息說呢這一個醫療專機呢其實是專門呢要去蒐集什麼情報等等之類的這樣的一個假消息那目前來講像類似像對這樣的一個應對我是有看到這一個應該是安捷航空他自己有發聲明那國防部目前來講對第一個就是說對於這種灰色地帶的應對目前的這個處置還有像這個對方在後續呢又再放假消息的處置是大概是什麼\n我想那相關的那個事件的情況是不是先由秦市市長先做一個說明委員好我是秦市市長我們掌握到了當天的確有這個事情發生那這架飛機它是在民航的管制底下因為是安捷航空\n他原本就是要到金門地區去做這樣子的訓練前後的確有發生過這個事情不過這架飛機他是按照民用的飛航規則在民航的管制底下進行飛行所以我們也不認為說這樣子的在民用的飛機遭受到中共的軍機採取這樣子的舉措是適當的跟委員做簡單的報告\n那我們有相對的這個\n飛機有飛上去做一個映出因為這個事情就是說這讓我回想到這個去年那個金門的也是這個禁限制水域的這個事件那當時對方其實也是用了虛假的消息去定義說當時的這個金門水域所發生的事情所以藉此的去擴張他的法律的權利這一次雖然他們沒有做一樣的事情但前置作業其實是非常類似的所以我覺得可能今後對於類似這樣的一個事情的一個處於我覺得應該是特別重要\n但第二件事情就跟海域有關其實跟這件事情很類似就是說在這個黃岩島這也是應該就是上個禮拜的事情而已那這個黃岩島呢現在可以看到有這個兩艘中國海軍軍艦四艘海警船以及數艘這個民兵那前面這個陳永康委員也有提到一直到今天為止其實都還有類似的一個活動\n那現在他就是有這種三位一體這樣的一個運用那我有看到因為在這次夜報裡面有特別提到一件事情就是1月他有去修這個國軍經常戰備時期突發狀況的一個處置規定是否能夠先稍微說明一下類似這樣一個處置規定不用詳細的內容因為我看到夜報裡面有講到這一個所謂的高中低風險的這一個分野遇到不同的風險的狀況應該要怎麼辦\n但是就是說以這樣的一個狀況來講會不會陷入到像不管是我去年講的那個事情還有像剛剛安潔航空所遇到的事情就是當對方用虛假的消息去劃定說這是一個什麼事件的時候我們有沒有把這一種對方定義成什麼事件藉此來擴張法律權利的這一件事情放到相關的這一個處置規定\n報告委員我是座議事次長跟委員報告剛剛委員所提的這個突發狀況處置規定我們就是因應今年這兩年開始中共灰色地帶應處的這種狀況跟他的情勢越來越多那所以我們就律定了一個叫做授權舉證跟在突發狀況處置規定裡面去律定他交戰規則等相關的規範會區分\n範圍跟類型那授權於我們戰備部隊管制的作戰單位比如說劍指部跟空作部可以依據他所面臨的狀況去採取及時的處置作為那當然因為中共不斷的在做一些模擬跟應用他的能力上的增長去做一些轉變所以我們每年都會針對不同的狀況去做修班像我們現在也開始在彙整各單位所面臨到一些在我們目前看到比較\n異常的一些動態會持續納進來做修班這部分跟委員做說明對 因為這個就是像你剛剛提到就是說譬如說它的範圍是什麼樣子它的類型是什麼樣子所以我們相關應該要有什麼處置對不對我們在去年的那一個就是金門水域發生這一個事件的時候在當時那時候部長還沒有上任那時候還是邱部長那時候我就有提到說是不是應該要有這樣的一個處置規定那離現在應該也有超過一年半的時間\n當時其實也有到這個辦公室有先討論了一番因為我知道這個處事規定的詳細狀況不適合在這個公開場合講但那個時候我除了提醒要一定的規範之外因為這樣才有一個SOP我們才知道要怎麼去應處另外一個最重要的事情就是因為對方都會去利用這樣的一個情勢去放消息比如說他今天在做這個事情的時候他知道我們要怎麼去反應\n結果他在不管是在他們的媒體上面或者說透過台灣去放一些消息說其實是台灣這邊在做一個挑釁什麼等等之類的就是他會有一個政治的因素放在跟這一個情勢的發生是把它扣在一起的\n這個時候呢像去年的時候他還甚至放了這個假的像海委會的這個假的這個對話記錄啊什麼等等之類的這一些事情它是屬於政治它不是在一開始講的這種範圍還有這個類型裡面但它卻是會遇到的所以遇到的時候呢比如說像我們的比如說新站的單位比如說我們的政案單位應該要怎麼運出是不是應該也要把這個納入裡面這樣我們在這個整體的規範的時候才可能會比較順暢\n我想第一個當然就國安部的部分我們每天會有一些暫停請的一個匯報會來就這個部分做一個應酬另外剛剛委員提到其實我覺得是有兩個面向一個是認知戰一個是法律戰\n在認知戰的這個部分的話因為這個相關的部分可能有一些是涉及到跟海巡也涉及到甚至其他的部會所以在認知戰的這個回應上面不只是介紹國安部所以國安會會就這個部分來主導會做一些關於反認知作戰的一些\n另外法律戰的部分也就是說公運這種灰色地帶的這個情擾它事實上是要形成一種台海內海化的這種一種長臂管轄的一種概念來不管是之前之中電軍這種公佈或者是這種海域有關這個海警船或者民兵漁船這種然後軍艦圍繞台灣這種的都涉及到這個法律戰所以這些法律戰的這些相關作為我們要來讓這個\n尤其是國際社會也來清楚的話就法律戰的部分現在正在研擬相關的這些我們引用相關的這些國際法的規範我會來進行一些法律戰的反制作為謝謝部長因為部長也是法律專家因為這個我在這個國際的論壇上面在討論這些事情的時候我比較擔心的事情就是\n今天我們講到跟認知有關的或者說譬如說輿論有關的有可能他國安會相關的國安局他們都可能會有相關的一些跨部會的討論但一旦牽扯到跟法律利率相關的不可能是法務部出來的他有可能會請到跟外交部有關但其實並沒有一個主責的部門去弄法律戰所以各國現在在遇到中國尤其像譬如說中文跟菲律賓他們遇到這種法律戰的時候畢竟第一線遇到的就還是要嘛就是海巡要嘛就是國軍\n那這個時候到底是誰才是應該主管這件事情誰應該去劃定這一個範圍其實在每一個國家都會出現一個有點不明確就不知道到底應該是誰來做所以這件事情如果後續能夠有更多的討論我覺得應該是樂見其成我們跟國安會已經有一個一段時間的討論這個部分國安會會結合相關的部委包括外交部也好包括\n海委會也好包括我們也好還有其他部會我想都會有一個我們會有一個法律戰的應處作為會出來但我想這個部分可能要私下再跟委員做個說明沒有問題\n接下來還有一個就其他一些比較細節也是跟這一次這個我看夜報比較有關係的就是說這個是跟國軍服裝有關因為我們現在大家就講因為這一次在這一個不管是在救災等等之類的最近國軍的形象國人的認知看起來是有一個顯著的提升\n但是在內部的這個士氣有時候我覺得也是見為知著那我在跟幾個國軍的這個兄弟姐妹在這個聊天的時候就發現他們對於這些這個服裝的這個設計我看基層的反應有時候不是那麼的好\n就是說有一些我就不要講軍種有一些軍種是大家這個在購買上意願是比較高但有一些大家購買意願稍低一點稍低一點可能是因為覺得那個Logo設計的不是很好看又或者說它的字體過大等等之類的導致它今天要去連是穿的意願不要說買如果即使它今天買了連那個穿的意願在有一些軍種是比較低\n我在問的過程當中當然很多人會覺得說因為他們的意見沒有被反映到有時候他們對於這個現在我們這個對於美學大家可以看到我們這個在每一次國慶的時候大家對於美學的討論其實也很多這個時候的基層有些人他對於這些到底什麼叫好看什麼不好看哪一個色號哪樣的一些字體哪樣的設計會比較好大家其實會有一些想法如果能夠廣納這些意見我覺得也是蠻重要的\n但有時候我覺得以長官來講可能比如說這個價格不要太高啦就是品質OK然後價格不要太高有時候很容易就是往這種就是低價單價低的這個品項就會來做購買但如果說能夠第一個是廣大意見第二個就是其實在整個軍種裡面有些人是本來也就有設計相關的專業如果說他們能夠進來一起能夠設計的話是不是比較能夠讓大家在軍\n軍中裡面能夠感覺到能夠受到重視是不是請這個看部長或者說請相關部門回答一下\n就是說共通性的部分的話如果是共通性可以去購買那委員剛剛提到了我們善用美學的人才來遴選年輕時代期望的這個軍品的部分我想我們會來演繹就是說不管是陸海空三軍他們的這個服裝供收站所能夠納入的這個共通性的這個產品的這個\n更好的一個設計那剛剛有講到說有有些軍種可能比較好有些軍種可能比較好那我想我們會來檢討看看是讓這個整個的這個讓這些官司兵們能夠\n我們有其一的一個美學的一個展現讓官兵覺得不管是你哪一個軍種都能夠買到他覺得不錯的一個產品但是有一些是制式的服裝的部分這些可能就沒有辦法說是通用這樣子\n那這個要看你是屬於哪個菌種但是菌種本身它的也應該是可以來強化我這邊問的比較像是原來的運動服那些的\n我就覺得這個因為我後面有提到這個APP的跨軍種購買的問題其實也不是說一定要因為有時候他們自己私底下買有什麼其實也很方便但今天之所以提到這一點就是因為想要讓他們有一些競爭就是說呢這一個不同的軍種之間的設計有一些競爭反而可以讓更好的產品能夠出來那這樣的話國軍兄弟姐妹也會覺得自己的意見被重視\n這一個就延伸到下一個問題這個在之前我忘了是在什麼時候我有問過類似的問題就是這些我們很多有一些留營意願的剛剛其實定宇文也有提到一些這邊我想問的就是因為我們真的蠻多他到國外去受訓回來之後我這一次也是在跟他們聊的時候我就發現一個我覺得是一個比較危險的事情就是很多人都甚至想說想說要賠錢但他想離開\n那我說如果說只是一兩個這樣的一個個案就算了但是已經聽到為數不少那我會很擔心就是說這種事情慢慢一直發生的話其實對整個世紀也會有很大的影響那這個監察院在2023年的時候其實也有做過這個相關的報告我那時候質詢的時候是在那個2023年報告出來沒多久之後我問那時候國防部有說有會想辦法\n要讓這些在海外訓練的人才回到這邊之後呢能夠盡量能夠讓他融入到軍中不然的話我之前在這個之前我在問的時候我就發現他們很多人在國外受訓然後回來之後結果最多是叫他們做翻譯啦做傳譯啦因為他們英文好但是我總覺得他們能夠他們到國外做訓練這件事情\n最主要應該不是他們英文好而已而是他們有對於這個不管是先進的這些技術先進的文化管理的方式等等之類的能夠把這個帶入到國軍做更好的改革我看到業報其實這次有講到DIO就是那個創新\n已經比去年更好了因為他有更多的跟這些不管是採購上的合作啊什麼等等之類這個進步看到了但關於這一種留外官兵他不管是到外面這個有派職過的或者有訓練過的能不能夠讓他回來到國軍能夠做更好的整合這個部分這一年來大概做了哪些努力各位委員報告我想我們現在尤其我這邊都相關的很重視這些國外軍校畢業生的這個\n循正常的金管來歷練的這個部分所以我們國防部本身就每半年會做一次控這個金管的一個控管所以半年就會那現在都掌握有譬如說近兩百個人所以這個近兩百個人他的\n尋這個金管的這個歷練來讓它這個能夠逐步在軍中能夠成長我想不會把它當作這個翻譯來使用這個狀況我們已經是每半年要控管一次那也請各軍種要注意到這個狀況好 因為時間關係這個主席再個20秒那希望就是說大概有一個簡單的統計\n就是說這一些人到時候留意這個狀況什麼等等之類的是不是在這兩個禮拜給我這個資料希望未來以後也不要再發生因為現在又聽到一些我就有點擔心我想因為這個可能不以公開來說明這些相關人員我們私下可以就這些管控的部分跟委員做一個詳細的說明好 謝謝部長謝謝主席好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.436 --> 00:02.038\n謝謝主席有請顧部長謝謝\n\n00:10.695 --> 00:39.662\n是省委部長好因為我們今天清晨我跟定語委員才剛回來從台美的這一個國防工業會議裡面當然有很多我覺得是滿重要的事情但是因為這個是很多跟預算比較有關係等於這個省總預算的時候我們再多來討論我再問幾個比較偏向時事的問題第一個當然就是還是我們這個灰色地帶的一個侵擾我最少想問空域跟海域的\n\n00:40.722 --> 01:05.132\n這個空域的有兩點我想問一下第一個當然就是在六月跟八月的時候都各有一次都是這個醫療專機這個醫療專機受到影響之後這個其實確實已經造成一個很大的困擾但我也比較好奇的一件事情就是第二個我想問的就除了我們的一般的因應措施之外就是說其實在這個海外應該看起來像是境外的一個報導\n\n01:06.312 --> 01:32.419\n有特別呢去放了一些假消息說呢這一個醫療專機呢其實是專門呢要去蒐集什麼情報等等之類的這樣的一個假消息那目前來講像類似像對這樣的一個應對我是有看到這一個應該是安捷航空他自己有發聲明那國防部目前來講對第一個就是說對於這種灰色地帶的應對目前的這個處置還有像這個對方在後續呢又再放假消息的處置是大概是什麼\n\n01:33.554 --> 01:50.676\n我想那相關的那個事件的情況是不是先由秦市市長先做一個說明委員好我是秦市市長我們掌握到了當天的確有這個事情發生那這架飛機它是在民航的管制底下因為是安捷航空\n\n01:51.297 --> 02:17.707\n他原本就是要到金門地區去做這樣子的訓練前後的確有發生過這個事情不過這架飛機他是按照民用的飛航規則在民航的管制底下進行飛行所以我們也不認為說這樣子的在民用的飛機遭受到中共的軍機採取這樣子的舉措是適當的跟委員做簡單的報告\n\n02:18.608 --> 02:20.715\n那我們有相對的這個\n\n02:22.834 --> 02:49.231\n飛機有飛上去做一個映出因為這個事情就是說這讓我回想到這個去年那個金門的也是這個禁限制水域的這個事件那當時對方其實也是用了虛假的消息去定義說當時的這個金門水域所發生的事情所以藉此的去擴張他的法律的權利這一次雖然他們沒有做一樣的事情但前置作業其實是非常類似的所以我覺得可能今後對於類似這樣的一個事情的一個處於我覺得應該是特別重要\n\n02:49.731 --> 03:08.651\n但第二件事情就跟海域有關其實跟這件事情很類似就是說在這個黃岩島這也是應該就是上個禮拜的事情而已那這個黃岩島呢現在可以看到有這個兩艘中國海軍軍艦四艘海警船以及數艘這個民兵那前面這個陳永康委員也有提到一直到今天為止其實都還有類似的一個活動\n\n03:09.432 --> 03:33.711\n那現在他就是有這種三位一體這樣的一個運用那我有看到因為在這次夜報裡面有特別提到一件事情就是1月他有去修這個國軍經常戰備時期突發狀況的一個處置規定是否能夠先稍微說明一下類似這樣一個處置規定不用詳細的內容因為我看到夜報裡面有講到這一個所謂的高中低風險的這一個分野遇到不同的風險的狀況應該要怎麼辦\n\n03:35.512 --> 03:56.801\n但是就是說以這樣的一個狀況來講會不會陷入到像不管是我去年講的那個事情還有像剛剛安潔航空所遇到的事情就是當對方用虛假的消息去劃定說這是一個什麼事件的時候我們有沒有把這一種對方定義成什麼事件藉此來擴張法律權利的這一件事情放到相關的這一個處置規定\n\n04:00.079 --> 04:22.554\n報告委員我是座議事次長跟委員報告剛剛委員所提的這個突發狀況處置規定我們就是因應今年這兩年開始中共灰色地帶應處的這種狀況跟他的情勢越來越多那所以我們就律定了一個叫做授權舉證跟在突發狀況處置規定裡面去律定他交戰規則等相關的規範會區分\n\n04:26.395 --> 04:46.979\n範圍跟類型那授權於我們戰備部隊管制的作戰單位比如說劍指部跟空作部可以依據他所面臨的狀況去採取及時的處置作為那當然因為中共不斷的在做一些模擬跟應用他的能力上的增長去做一些轉變所以我們每年都會針對不同的狀況去做修班像我們現在也開始在彙整各單位所面臨到一些在我們目前看到比較\n\n04:53.541 --> 05:19.520\n異常的一些動態會持續納進來做修班這部分跟委員做說明對因為這個就是像你剛剛提到就是說譬如說它的範圍是什麼樣子它的類型是什麼樣子所以我們相關應該要有什麼處置對不對我們在去年的那一個就是金門水域發生這一個事件的時候在當時那時候部長還沒有上任那時候還是邱部長那時候我就有提到說是不是應該要有這樣的一個處置規定那離現在應該也有超過一年半的時間\n\n05:21.001 --> 05:44.621\n當時其實也有到這個辦公室有先討論了一番因為我知道這個處事規定的詳細狀況不適合在這個公開場合講但那個時候我除了提醒要一定的規範之外因為這樣才有一個SOP我們才知道要怎麼去應處另外一個最重要的事情就是因為對方都會去利用這樣的一個情勢去放消息比如說他今天在做這個事情的時候他知道我們要怎麼去反應\n\n05:46.263 --> 06:02.123\n結果他在不管是在他們的媒體上面或者說透過台灣去放一些消息說其實是台灣這邊在做一個挑釁什麼等等之類的就是他會有一個政治的因素放在跟這一個情勢的發生是把它扣在一起的\n\n06:02.943 --> 06:27.002\n這個時候呢像去年的時候他還甚至放了這個假的像海委會的這個假的這個對話記錄啊什麼等等之類的這一些事情它是屬於政治它不是在一開始講的這種範圍還有這個類型裡面但它卻是會遇到的所以遇到的時候呢比如說像我們的比如說新站的單位比如說我們的政案單位應該要怎麼運出是不是應該也要把這個納入裡面這樣我們在這個整體的規範的時候才可能會比較順暢\n\n06:32.168 --> 06:48.502\n我想第一個當然就國安部的部分我們每天會有一些暫停請的一個匯報會來就這個部分做一個應酬另外剛剛委員提到其實我覺得是有兩個面向一個是認知戰一個是法律戰\n\n06:49.403 --> 07:08.508\n在認知戰的這個部分的話因為這個相關的部分可能有一些是涉及到跟海巡也涉及到甚至其他的部會所以在認知戰的這個回應上面不只是介紹國安部所以國安會會就這個部分來主導會做一些關於反認知作戰的一些\n\n07:09.708 --> 07:36.743\n另外法律戰的部分也就是說公運這種灰色地帶的這個情擾它事實上是要形成一種台海內海化的這種一種長臂管轄的一種概念來不管是之前之中電軍這種公佈或者是這種海域有關這個海警船或者民兵漁船這種然後軍艦圍繞台灣這種的都涉及到這個法律戰所以這些法律戰的這些相關作為我們要來讓這個\n\n07:38.526 --> 07:58.187\n尤其是國際社會也來清楚的話就法律戰的部分現在正在研擬相關的這些我們引用相關的這些國際法的規範我會來進行一些法律戰的反制作為謝謝部長因為部長也是法律專家因為這個我在這個國際的論壇上面在討論這些事情的時候我比較擔心的事情就是\n\n07:58.647 --> 08:27.095\n今天我們講到跟認知有關的或者說譬如說輿論有關的有可能他國安會相關的國安局他們都可能會有相關的一些跨部會的討論但一旦牽扯到跟法律利率相關的不可能是法務部出來的他有可能會請到跟外交部有關但其實並沒有一個主責的部門去弄法律戰所以各國現在在遇到中國尤其像譬如說中文跟菲律賓他們遇到這種法律戰的時候畢竟第一線遇到的就還是要嘛就是海巡要嘛就是國軍\n\n08:28.115 --> 08:51.712\n那這個時候到底是誰才是應該主管這件事情誰應該去劃定這一個範圍其實在每一個國家都會出現一個有點不明確就不知道到底應該是誰來做所以這件事情如果後續能夠有更多的討論我覺得應該是樂見其成我們跟國安會已經有一個一段時間的討論這個部分國安會會結合相關的部委包括外交部也好包括\n\n08:52.813 --> 09:08.208\n海委會也好包括我們也好還有其他部會我想都會有一個我們會有一個法律戰的應處作為會出來但我想這個部分可能要私下再跟委員做個說明沒有問題\n\n09:09.509 --> 09:26.472\n接下來還有一個就其他一些比較細節也是跟這一次這個我看夜報比較有關係的就是說這個是跟國軍服裝有關因為我們現在大家就講因為這一次在這一個不管是在救災等等之類的最近國軍的形象國人的認知看起來是有一個顯著的提升\n\n09:27.052 --> 09:41.977\n但是在內部的這個士氣有時候我覺得也是見為知著那我在跟幾個國軍的這個兄弟姐妹在這個聊天的時候就發現他們對於這些這個服裝的這個設計我看基層的反應有時候不是那麼的好\n\n09:42.757 --> 10:07.612\n就是說有一些我就不要講軍種有一些軍種是大家這個在購買上意願是比較高但有一些大家購買意願稍低一點稍低一點可能是因為覺得那個Logo設計的不是很好看又或者說它的字體過大等等之類的導致它今天要去連是穿的意願不要說買如果即使它今天買了連那個穿的意願在有一些軍種是比較低\n\n10:08.252 --> 10:33.045\n我在問的過程當中當然很多人會覺得說因為他們的意見沒有被反映到有時候他們對於這個現在我們這個對於美學大家可以看到我們這個在每一次國慶的時候大家對於美學的討論其實也很多這個時候的基層有些人他對於這些到底什麼叫好看什麼不好看哪一個色號哪樣的一些字體哪樣的設計會比較好大家其實會有一些想法如果能夠廣納這些意見我覺得也是蠻重要的\n\n10:33.625 --> 10:59.161\n但有時候我覺得以長官來講可能比如說這個價格不要太高啦就是品質OK然後價格不要太高有時候很容易就是往這種就是低價單價低的這個品項就會來做購買但如果說能夠第一個是廣大意見第二個就是其實在整個軍種裡面有些人是本來也就有設計相關的專業如果說他們能夠進來一起能夠設計的話是不是比較能夠讓大家在軍\n\n11:00.443 --> 11:05.945\n軍中裡面能夠感覺到能夠受到重視是不是請這個看部長或者說請相關部門回答一下\n\n11:06.611 --> 11:32.422\n就是說共通性的部分的話如果是共通性可以去購買那委員剛剛提到了我們善用美學的人才來遴選年輕時代期望的這個軍品的部分我想我們會來演繹就是說不管是陸海空三軍他們的這個服裝供收站所能夠納入的這個共通性的這個產品的這個\n\n11:34.002 --> 11:50.111\n更好的一個設計那剛剛有講到說有有些軍種可能比較好有些軍種可能比較好那我想我們會來檢討看看是讓這個整個的這個讓這些官司兵們能夠\n\n11:53.573 --> 12:13.846\n我們有其一的一個美學的一個展現讓官兵覺得不管是你哪一個軍種都能夠買到他覺得不錯的一個產品但是有一些是制式的服裝的部分這些可能就沒有辦法說是通用這樣子\n\n12:14.306 --> 12:25.959\n那這個要看你是屬於哪個菌種但是菌種本身它的也應該是可以來強化我這邊問的比較像是原來的運動服那些的\n\n12:29.563 --> 12:49.795\n我就覺得這個因為我後面有提到這個APP的跨軍種購買的問題其實也不是說一定要因為有時候他們自己私底下買有什麼其實也很方便但今天之所以提到這一點就是因為想要讓他們有一些競爭就是說呢這一個不同的軍種之間的設計有一些競爭反而可以讓更好的產品能夠出來那這樣的話國軍兄弟姐妹也會覺得自己的意見被重視\n\n12:51.456 --> 13:17.024\n這一個就延伸到下一個問題這個在之前我忘了是在什麼時候我有問過類似的問題就是這些我們很多有一些留營意願的剛剛其實定宇文也有提到一些這邊我想問的就是因為我們真的蠻多他到國外去受訓回來之後我這一次也是在跟他們聊的時候我就發現一個我覺得是一個比較危險的事情就是很多人都甚至想說想說要賠錢但他想離開\n\n13:19.585 --> 13:42.017\n那我說如果說只是一兩個這樣的一個個案就算了但是已經聽到為數不少那我會很擔心就是說這種事情慢慢一直發生的話其實對整個世紀也會有很大的影響那這個監察院在2023年的時候其實也有做過這個相關的報告我那時候質詢的時候是在那個2023年報告出來沒多久之後我問那時候國防部有說有會想辦法\n\n13:42.917 --> 14:02.865\n要讓這些在海外訓練的人才回到這邊之後呢能夠盡量能夠讓他融入到軍中不然的話我之前在這個之前我在問的時候我就發現他們很多人在國外受訓然後回來之後結果最多是叫他們做翻譯啦做傳譯啦因為他們英文好但是我總覺得他們能夠他們到國外做訓練這件事情\n\n14:03.385 --> 14:16.749\n最主要應該不是他們英文好而已而是他們有對於這個不管是先進的這些技術先進的文化管理的方式等等之類的能夠把這個帶入到國軍做更好的改革我看到業報其實這次有講到DIO就是那個創新\n\n14:19.330 --> 14:45.727\n已經比去年更好了因為他有更多的跟這些不管是採購上的合作啊什麼等等之類這個進步看到了但關於這一種留外官兵他不管是到外面這個有派職過的或者有訓練過的能不能夠讓他回來到國軍能夠做更好的整合這個部分這一年來大概做了哪些努力各位委員報告我想我們現在尤其我這邊都相關的很重視這些國外軍校畢業生的這個\n\n14:46.827 --> 15:02.780\n循正常的金管來歷練的這個部分所以我們國防部本身就每半年會做一次控這個金管的一個控管所以半年就會那現在都掌握有譬如說近兩百個人所以這個近兩百個人他的\n\n15:04.261 --> 15:25.051\n尋這個金管的這個歷練來讓它這個能夠逐步在軍中能夠成長我想不會把它當作這個翻譯來使用這個狀況我們已經是每半年要控管一次那也請各軍種要注意到這個狀況好因為時間關係這個主席再個20秒那希望就是說大概有一個簡單的統計\n\n15:26.592 --> 15:46.524\n就是說這一些人到時候留意這個狀況什麼等等之類的是不是在這兩個禮拜給我這個資料希望未來以後也不要再發生因為現在又聽到一些我就有點擔心我想因為這個可能不以公開來說明這些相關人員我們私下可以就這些管控的部分跟委員做一個詳細的說明好謝謝部長謝謝主席好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.436,"end":2.038,"text":"謝謝主席 有請顧部長 謝謝"},{"start":10.695,"end":39.662,"text":"是 省委部長好因為我們今天清晨我跟定語委員才剛回來從台美的這一個國防工業會議裡面當然有很多我覺得是滿重要的事情但是因為這個是很多跟預算比較有關係等於這個省總預算的時候我們再多來討論我再問幾個比較偏向時事的問題第一個當然就是還是我們這個灰色地帶的一個侵擾我最少想問空域跟海域的"},{"start":40.722,"end":65.132,"text":"這個空域的有兩點我想問一下第一個當然就是在六月跟八月的時候都各有一次都是這個醫療專機這個醫療專機受到影響之後這個其實確實已經造成一個很大的困擾但我也比較好奇的一件事情就是第二個我想問的就除了我們的一般的因應措施之外就是說其實在這個海外應該看起來像是境外的一個報導"},{"start":66.312,"end":92.419,"text":"有特別呢去放了一些假消息說呢這一個醫療專機呢其實是專門呢要去蒐集什麼情報等等之類的這樣的一個假消息那目前來講像類似像對這樣的一個應對我是有看到這一個應該是安捷航空他自己有發聲明那國防部目前來講對第一個就是說對於這種灰色地帶的應對目前的這個處置還有像這個對方在後續呢又再放假消息的處置是大概是什麼"},{"start":93.554,"end":110.676,"text":"我想那相關的那個事件的情況是不是先由秦市市長先做一個說明委員好我是秦市市長我們掌握到了當天的確有這個事情發生那這架飛機它是在民航的管制底下因為是安捷航空"},{"start":111.297,"end":137.707,"text":"他原本就是要到金門地區去做這樣子的訓練前後的確有發生過這個事情不過這架飛機他是按照民用的飛航規則在民航的管制底下進行飛行所以我們也不認為說這樣子的在民用的飛機遭受到中共的軍機採取這樣子的舉措是適當的跟委員做簡單的報告"},{"start":138.608,"end":140.715,"text":"那我們有相對的這個"},{"start":142.834,"end":169.231,"text":"飛機有飛上去做一個映出因為這個事情就是說這讓我回想到這個去年那個金門的也是這個禁限制水域的這個事件那當時對方其實也是用了虛假的消息去定義說當時的這個金門水域所發生的事情所以藉此的去擴張他的法律的權利這一次雖然他們沒有做一樣的事情但前置作業其實是非常類似的所以我覺得可能今後對於類似這樣的一個事情的一個處於我覺得應該是特別重要"},{"start":169.731,"end":188.651,"text":"但第二件事情就跟海域有關其實跟這件事情很類似就是說在這個黃岩島這也是應該就是上個禮拜的事情而已那這個黃岩島呢現在可以看到有這個兩艘中國海軍軍艦四艘海警船以及數艘這個民兵那前面這個陳永康委員也有提到一直到今天為止其實都還有類似的一個活動"},{"start":189.432,"end":213.711,"text":"那現在他就是有這種三位一體這樣的一個運用那我有看到因為在這次夜報裡面有特別提到一件事情就是1月他有去修這個國軍經常戰備時期突發狀況的一個處置規定是否能夠先稍微說明一下類似這樣一個處置規定不用詳細的內容因為我看到夜報裡面有講到這一個所謂的高中低風險的這一個分野遇到不同的風險的狀況應該要怎麼辦"},{"start":215.512,"end":236.801,"text":"但是就是說以這樣的一個狀況來講會不會陷入到像不管是我去年講的那個事情還有像剛剛安潔航空所遇到的事情就是當對方用虛假的消息去劃定說這是一個什麼事件的時候我們有沒有把這一種對方定義成什麼事件藉此來擴張法律權利的這一件事情放到相關的這一個處置規定"},{"start":240.079,"end":262.554,"text":"報告委員我是座議事次長跟委員報告剛剛委員所提的這個突發狀況處置規定我們就是因應今年這兩年開始中共灰色地帶應處的這種狀況跟他的情勢越來越多那所以我們就律定了一個叫做授權舉證跟在突發狀況處置規定裡面去律定他交戰規則等相關的規範會區分"},{"start":266.395,"end":286.979,"text":"範圍跟類型那授權於我們戰備部隊管制的作戰單位比如說劍指部跟空作部可以依據他所面臨的狀況去採取及時的處置作為那當然因為中共不斷的在做一些模擬跟應用他的能力上的增長去做一些轉變所以我們每年都會針對不同的狀況去做修班像我們現在也開始在彙整各單位所面臨到一些在我們目前看到比較"},{"start":293.541,"end":319.52,"text":"異常的一些動態會持續納進來做修班這部分跟委員做說明對 因為這個就是像你剛剛提到就是說譬如說它的範圍是什麼樣子它的類型是什麼樣子所以我們相關應該要有什麼處置對不對我們在去年的那一個就是金門水域發生這一個事件的時候在當時那時候部長還沒有上任那時候還是邱部長那時候我就有提到說是不是應該要有這樣的一個處置規定那離現在應該也有超過一年半的時間"},{"start":321.001,"end":344.621,"text":"當時其實也有到這個辦公室有先討論了一番因為我知道這個處事規定的詳細狀況不適合在這個公開場合講但那個時候我除了提醒要一定的規範之外因為這樣才有一個SOP我們才知道要怎麼去應處另外一個最重要的事情就是因為對方都會去利用這樣的一個情勢去放消息比如說他今天在做這個事情的時候他知道我們要怎麼去反應"},{"start":346.263,"end":362.123,"text":"結果他在不管是在他們的媒體上面或者說透過台灣去放一些消息說其實是台灣這邊在做一個挑釁什麼等等之類的就是他會有一個政治的因素放在跟這一個情勢的發生是把它扣在一起的"},{"start":362.943,"end":387.002,"text":"這個時候呢像去年的時候他還甚至放了這個假的像海委會的這個假的這個對話記錄啊什麼等等之類的這一些事情它是屬於政治它不是在一開始講的這種範圍還有這個類型裡面但它卻是會遇到的所以遇到的時候呢比如說像我們的比如說新站的單位比如說我們的政案單位應該要怎麼運出是不是應該也要把這個納入裡面這樣我們在這個整體的規範的時候才可能會比較順暢"},{"start":392.168,"end":408.502,"text":"我想第一個當然就國安部的部分我們每天會有一些暫停請的一個匯報會來就這個部分做一個應酬另外剛剛委員提到其實我覺得是有兩個面向一個是認知戰一個是法律戰"},{"start":409.403,"end":428.508,"text":"在認知戰的這個部分的話因為這個相關的部分可能有一些是涉及到跟海巡也涉及到甚至其他的部會所以在認知戰的這個回應上面不只是介紹國安部所以國安會會就這個部分來主導會做一些關於反認知作戰的一些"},{"start":429.708,"end":456.743,"text":"另外法律戰的部分也就是說公運這種灰色地帶的這個情擾它事實上是要形成一種台海內海化的這種一種長臂管轄的一種概念來不管是之前之中電軍這種公佈或者是這種海域有關這個海警船或者民兵漁船這種然後軍艦圍繞台灣這種的都涉及到這個法律戰所以這些法律戰的這些相關作為我們要來讓這個"},{"start":458.526,"end":478.187,"text":"尤其是國際社會也來清楚的話就法律戰的部分現在正在研擬相關的這些我們引用相關的這些國際法的規範我會來進行一些法律戰的反制作為謝謝部長因為部長也是法律專家因為這個我在這個國際的論壇上面在討論這些事情的時候我比較擔心的事情就是"},{"start":478.647,"end":507.095,"text":"今天我們講到跟認知有關的或者說譬如說輿論有關的有可能他國安會相關的國安局他們都可能會有相關的一些跨部會的討論但一旦牽扯到跟法律利率相關的不可能是法務部出來的他有可能會請到跟外交部有關但其實並沒有一個主責的部門去弄法律戰所以各國現在在遇到中國尤其像譬如說中文跟菲律賓他們遇到這種法律戰的時候畢竟第一線遇到的就還是要嘛就是海巡要嘛就是國軍"},{"start":508.115,"end":531.712,"text":"那這個時候到底是誰才是應該主管這件事情誰應該去劃定這一個範圍其實在每一個國家都會出現一個有點不明確就不知道到底應該是誰來做所以這件事情如果後續能夠有更多的討論我覺得應該是樂見其成我們跟國安會已經有一個一段時間的討論這個部分國安會會結合相關的部委包括外交部也好包括"},{"start":532.813,"end":548.208,"text":"海委會也好包括我們也好還有其他部會我想都會有一個我們會有一個法律戰的應處作為會出來但我想這個部分可能要私下再跟委員做個說明沒有問題"},{"start":549.509,"end":566.472,"text":"接下來還有一個就其他一些比較細節也是跟這一次這個我看夜報比較有關係的就是說這個是跟國軍服裝有關因為我們現在大家就講因為這一次在這一個不管是在救災等等之類的最近國軍的形象國人的認知看起來是有一個顯著的提升"},{"start":567.052,"end":581.977,"text":"但是在內部的這個士氣有時候我覺得也是見為知著那我在跟幾個國軍的這個兄弟姐妹在這個聊天的時候就發現他們對於這些這個服裝的這個設計我看基層的反應有時候不是那麼的好"},{"start":582.757,"end":607.612,"text":"就是說有一些我就不要講軍種有一些軍種是大家這個在購買上意願是比較高但有一些大家購買意願稍低一點稍低一點可能是因為覺得那個Logo設計的不是很好看又或者說它的字體過大等等之類的導致它今天要去連是穿的意願不要說買如果即使它今天買了連那個穿的意願在有一些軍種是比較低"},{"start":608.252,"end":633.045,"text":"我在問的過程當中當然很多人會覺得說因為他們的意見沒有被反映到有時候他們對於這個現在我們這個對於美學大家可以看到我們這個在每一次國慶的時候大家對於美學的討論其實也很多這個時候的基層有些人他對於這些到底什麼叫好看什麼不好看哪一個色號哪樣的一些字體哪樣的設計會比較好大家其實會有一些想法如果能夠廣納這些意見我覺得也是蠻重要的"},{"start":633.625,"end":659.161,"text":"但有時候我覺得以長官來講可能比如說這個價格不要太高啦就是品質OK然後價格不要太高有時候很容易就是往這種就是低價單價低的這個品項就會來做購買但如果說能夠第一個是廣大意見第二個就是其實在整個軍種裡面有些人是本來也就有設計相關的專業如果說他們能夠進來一起能夠設計的話是不是比較能夠讓大家在軍"},{"start":660.443,"end":665.945,"text":"軍中裡面能夠感覺到能夠受到重視是不是請這個看部長或者說請相關部門回答一下"},{"start":666.611,"end":692.422,"text":"就是說共通性的部分的話如果是共通性可以去購買那委員剛剛提到了我們善用美學的人才來遴選年輕時代期望的這個軍品的部分我想我們會來演繹就是說不管是陸海空三軍他們的這個服裝供收站所能夠納入的這個共通性的這個產品的這個"},{"start":694.002,"end":710.111,"text":"更好的一個設計那剛剛有講到說有有些軍種可能比較好有些軍種可能比較好那我想我們會來檢討看看是讓這個整個的這個讓這些官司兵們能夠"},{"start":713.573,"end":733.846,"text":"我們有其一的一個美學的一個展現讓官兵覺得不管是你哪一個軍種都能夠買到他覺得不錯的一個產品但是有一些是制式的服裝的部分這些可能就沒有辦法說是通用這樣子"},{"start":734.306,"end":745.959,"text":"那這個要看你是屬於哪個菌種但是菌種本身它的也應該是可以來強化我這邊問的比較像是原來的運動服那些的"},{"start":749.563,"end":769.795,"text":"我就覺得這個因為我後面有提到這個APP的跨軍種購買的問題其實也不是說一定要因為有時候他們自己私底下買有什麼其實也很方便但今天之所以提到這一點就是因為想要讓他們有一些競爭就是說呢這一個不同的軍種之間的設計有一些競爭反而可以讓更好的產品能夠出來那這樣的話國軍兄弟姐妹也會覺得自己的意見被重視"},{"start":771.456,"end":797.024,"text":"這一個就延伸到下一個問題這個在之前我忘了是在什麼時候我有問過類似的問題就是這些我們很多有一些留營意願的剛剛其實定宇文也有提到一些這邊我想問的就是因為我們真的蠻多他到國外去受訓回來之後我這一次也是在跟他們聊的時候我就發現一個我覺得是一個比較危險的事情就是很多人都甚至想說想說要賠錢但他想離開"},{"start":799.585,"end":822.017,"text":"那我說如果說只是一兩個這樣的一個個案就算了但是已經聽到為數不少那我會很擔心就是說這種事情慢慢一直發生的話其實對整個世紀也會有很大的影響那這個監察院在2023年的時候其實也有做過這個相關的報告我那時候質詢的時候是在那個2023年報告出來沒多久之後我問那時候國防部有說有會想辦法"},{"start":822.917,"end":842.865,"text":"要讓這些在海外訓練的人才回到這邊之後呢能夠盡量能夠讓他融入到軍中不然的話我之前在這個之前我在問的時候我就發現他們很多人在國外受訓然後回來之後結果最多是叫他們做翻譯啦做傳譯啦因為他們英文好但是我總覺得他們能夠他們到國外做訓練這件事情"},{"start":843.385,"end":856.749,"text":"最主要應該不是他們英文好而已而是他們有對於這個不管是先進的這些技術先進的文化管理的方式等等之類的能夠把這個帶入到國軍做更好的改革我看到業報其實這次有講到DIO就是那個創新"},{"start":859.33,"end":885.727,"text":"已經比去年更好了因為他有更多的跟這些不管是採購上的合作啊什麼等等之類這個進步看到了但關於這一種留外官兵他不管是到外面這個有派職過的或者有訓練過的能不能夠讓他回來到國軍能夠做更好的整合這個部分這一年來大概做了哪些努力各位委員報告我想我們現在尤其我這邊都相關的很重視這些國外軍校畢業生的這個"},{"start":886.827,"end":902.78,"text":"循正常的金管來歷練的這個部分所以我們國防部本身就每半年會做一次控這個金管的一個控管所以半年就會那現在都掌握有譬如說近兩百個人所以這個近兩百個人他的"},{"start":904.261,"end":925.051,"text":"尋這個金管的這個歷練來讓它這個能夠逐步在軍中能夠成長我想不會把它當作這個翻譯來使用這個狀況我們已經是每半年要控管一次那也請各軍種要注意到這個狀況好 因為時間關係這個主席再個20秒那希望就是說大概有一個簡單的統計"},{"start":926.592,"end":946.524,"text":"就是說這一些人到時候留意這個狀況什麼等等之類的是不是在這兩個禮拜給我這個資料希望未來以後也不要再發生因為現在又聽到一些我就有點擔心我想因為這個可能不以公開來說明這些相關人員我們私下可以就這些管控的部分跟委員做一個詳細的說明好 謝謝部長謝謝主席好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":392,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（10時58分）謝謝主席，有請顧部長，謝謝。"],["主席：部長，請。"],["顧部長立雄：沈委員好。"],["沈委員伯洋：部長好。因為今天清晨我跟定宇委員，才剛從臺美的國防工業會議回來，裡面當然有很多我覺得蠻重要的事情，但是因為很多跟預算比較有關係，等審總預算的時候再多來討論。","我問幾個比較偏向時事的問題，第一個，當然還是灰色地帶的侵擾，我最主要想問空域跟海域的部分。空域我有兩點想問一下，第一個，在6月跟8月的時候都各有一次，都是醫療專機，醫療專機受到影響之後，確實已經造成很大的困擾，我比較好奇的一件事情，也是第二個我想問的。除了一般的因應措施之外，其實在海外，看起來應該像是境外的報導，有特別去放了一些假消息說，醫療專機其實是專門要去蒐集情報等等之類的假消息。目前來講，類似像對這樣的應對，我是有看到，應該是安捷航空自己有發聲明。至於對國防部目前來講，第一個，對於這種灰色地帶的應對，目前的處置？還有，像對方後續又再放假消息的處置大概是什麼？"],["顧部長立雄：我想相關事件的情況，是不是先由情次室說明。"],["沈委員伯洋：沒問題。"],["謝次長日升：委員好，我是情次室次長。根據我們掌握到的，當天的確有發生這件事情，這架飛機是在民航的管制底下，因為是安捷航空，它原本就是要到金門地區做訓練，前後的確有發生過這件事情，不過這架飛機是按照民用的飛航規則在民航的管制底下進行飛行，但我們也不認為民用飛機遭受到中共軍機採取這樣子的舉措是適當的，跟委員做簡單的報告。"],["顧部長立雄：我們的飛機有飛上去做應處。"],["沈委員伯洋：因為這件事情讓我回想到去年金門禁限制水域的事件，當時對方其實也是用了虛假的消息去定義當時這個金門水域所發生的事情，藉此去擴張他的法律權力，這一次雖然他們沒有做一樣的事情，但前置作業其實非常類似，所以我覺得可能今後對於類似事情的處理應該是特別重要。","第二件事情是跟海域有關，其實跟這件事情很類似，這應該也是上個禮拜的事情而已，黃岩島現在可以看到有2艘中國海軍軍艦、4艘海警船以及數艘民兵船隻，前面陳永康委員也有提到，一直到今天為止，其實都還有類似的活動，現在就是有這種三位一體的運用，我看到在這次業報裡有特別提到一件事情，就是1月有去修國軍經常戰備時期突發狀況處置規定，是否能夠先稍微說明一下類似這樣的一個處置規定？不用詳細的內容，因為我看到業報裡面有講到所謂的高、中、低風險的分野，遇到不同的風險的狀況應該要怎麼辦，但是以這樣的狀況來講，會不會陷入到像不管是我去年講的那件事情，還有像剛剛安捷航空所遇到的事情，就是當對方用虛假的消息去劃定這是一個什麼事件的時候，我們有沒有把這一種對方定義成什麼事件，藉此來擴張法律權力的這一件事情，放到相關的處置規定？"],["連次長志威：報告委員，我是作次室次長。跟委員報告，剛剛委員所提的突發狀況處置規定，我們就是因應這兩年開始，中共灰色地帶應處的這種狀況跟情勢越來越多，所以我們就律定了一個叫做授權舉證，跟在突發狀況處置規定裡面去律定交戰規則等相關的規範，會區分範圍跟類型，授權於我們戰備部隊管制的作戰單位，比如說艦指部跟空作部可以依據他所面臨的狀況，去採取即時的處置作為。當然因為中共不斷的在做一些模擬跟應用其能力上的增長去做一些轉變，所以我們每年都會針對不同的狀況去做修頒，像我們現在也開始在彙整各單位所面臨到、我們目前看到比較異常的一些動態，會持續納進來做修頒，這部分跟委員做說明。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，像你剛剛提到，比如說它的範圍是什麼樣子，它的類型是什麼樣子，所以我們相關應該要有什麼處置，對不對？我們在去年金門水域發生這一件事件的時候，當時部長還沒有上任，那時候還是邱部長，那時候我就有提到是不是應該要有這樣的一個處置規定，離現在應該也有超過一年半的時間，當時其實也有到辦公室先討論了一番，因為我知道這個處置規定的詳細狀況不適合在這個公開場合講，但那個時候我除了提醒要有一定的規範之外，因為這樣才有一個SOP，我們才知道要怎麼去應處，另外一個最重要的事情，就是因為對方都會利用這樣的一個情勢去放消息。比如說他今天在做這件事情的時候，他知道我們要怎麼去反應，他不管是在他們的媒體上面，或者是透過臺灣去放一些消息說其實是臺灣這邊在做一個挑釁、什麼等等之類的，就是他會有一個政治的因素跟這一個情勢的發生，是把它扣在一起的。像去年的時候，他甚至還放了海委會假的對話紀錄什麼等等之類的，這一些事情它是屬於政治，它不是在一開始講的這種範圍還有這個類型裡面，但它卻是會遇到的。所以遇到的時候，比如說心戰的單位，比如說我們的政戰單位應該要怎麼應處，是不是應該也要把這個納入到裡面？這樣我們在整體規範的時候才可能會比較順暢。"],["顧部長立雄：第一個，就國防部的部分，我們每天會有一些戰敵情的會報，會來就這個部分做應處。另外，剛剛委員提到，其實我覺得是有兩個面向，一個是認知戰，一個是法律戰，在認知戰這個部分，因為相關部分可能有一些涉及到海巡，甚至其他的部會，在認知戰的回應上面不只是牽涉到國防部，所以國安會會來主導這個部分，會做一些關於反認知作戰的……","另外是法律戰的部分，關於這種灰色地帶的侵擾，它事實上是要形成臺海內海化這一種長臂管轄的概念，不管是之前資通電軍的公布，或者是海域有關海警船或者民兵漁船，然後軍艦圍繞臺灣這種，都涉及到法律戰，所以這些法律戰的相關作為，我們要讓尤其是讓國際社會也清楚的話，就法律戰的部分，我們會引用相關的國際法規範，來進行一些法律戰的反制作為。"],["沈委員伯洋：謝謝部長，因為部長也是法律專家，我在國際論壇上討論這些事情的時候，比較擔心的事情是，今天我們講到跟認知有關的或者說跟輿論有關的，有可能國安會相關的、國安局都可能會有一些跨部會的討論，但一旦牽扯到跟法律、律定相關的，不可能是法務部出來，他有可能會請跟外交部有關的，但其實並沒有一個主責的部門去弄法律戰。所以各國現在遇到中國，尤其像中國跟菲律賓，他們遇到這種法律戰的時候，畢竟第一線遇到的不是海巡就是國軍，這個時候到底誰才應該主管這件事情，誰應該去劃定這一個範圍，其實在每一個國家都會有點不明確，就是不知道到底應該是誰來做，所以這件事情如果後續能夠有更多的討論，我覺得應該是樂見其成。"],["顧部長立雄：我們跟國安會已經有一段時間的討論，這個部分國安會會結合相關的部會，包括外交部也好，包括海委會也好，包括我們也好，還有其他部會，我們會有一個法律戰的應處作為出來，但我想這個部分可能要私下再跟委員說明。"],["沈委員伯洋：沒問題。接下來還有其他一些比較細節的，跟這一次業報比較有關係的，就是跟國軍跟服裝有關。這一次不管是在救災等等之類的，最近國軍的形象在國人的認知裡看起來是有顯著的提升，但是在內部的士氣有時候我覺得也是見微知著。我在跟幾個國軍兄弟姐妹聊天的時候，就發現他們對於一些服裝的設計，我看基層的反應有時候不是那麼的好，我就不要講軍種，有一些軍種大家的購買意願是比較高，但有一些大家的購買意願就稍低一點，稍低一點可能是因為覺得logo設計得不是很好看，有時候它的字體過大等等之類的，導致他不要說買了，即使他今天買了，連穿的意願在有一些軍種是比較低。我在問的過程當中，很多人會覺得他們的意見沒有被反映到。","大家可以看到每一次國慶的時候，大家對於美學的討論其實也很多，這個時候基層有一些人對於什麼叫好看、什麼是不好看、哪一個色號、哪樣的字體、哪樣的設計會比較好，大家其實會有一些想法，如果能夠廣納這些意見，我覺得也是蠻重要的。我覺得以長官來講，可能就是品質OK，然後價格不要太高，有時候就是很容易往這種單價低的品項來購買，但如果能夠第一個是廣納意見，第二個，其實在整個軍種裡面，有些人本來也就有設計相關的專業，如果說他們能夠進來一起設計的話，是不是比較能夠讓在軍中的大家感覺受到重視，是不是請部長或者相關部門回答一下？"],["顧部長立雄：對於共通性部分的話，如果是共通性可以去購買，委員剛剛提到了我們要善用美學的人才，遴選年輕世代期望的軍品的部分，我想我們會來研議，即陸、海、空三軍的服裝供售站能夠納入共通性的部分，讓產品有更好的設計。剛剛講到有些軍種可能比較好，有些軍種可能比較不好，我想我們會來檢討，看看如何讓官士兵們能夠有一個齊一的美學展現，使官兵覺得不管他是哪一個軍種都能夠買到他覺得不錯的產品，但有一些是制式的服裝，這些可能就沒有辦法通用，這個要看他是屬於哪個軍種，但是軍種本身也應該是可以來強化相關產品的品質跟設計。"],["沈委員伯洋：我後面有提到app開放跨軍種購買的問題，其實也不是說一定要這樣，因為有時候他們自己私底下買什麼也很方便，但今天之所以提到這一點，就是因為想要讓不同軍種之間的設計有一些競爭，反而可以讓更好的產品能夠出來，這樣的話，國軍兄弟姐妹也會覺得自己的意見被重視。","這個就衍生到下一個問題，我忘了是在什麼時候我有問過類似的問題，有一些有留營意願的，剛剛其實定宇委員也有提到一些，這邊我想問的是，因為真的蠻多到國外去受訓的人才回來之後，我這一次也是在跟他們聊的時候發現一個我覺得是比較危險的事情，就是很多人都甚至想說要賠錢離開，如果只是一、兩個這樣的個案就算了，但是已經聽到為數不少，我會很擔心這種事情慢慢一直發生的話，其實對整個士氣也會有很大的影響。","監察院在2023年的時候也有做過相關的報告，我是在2023年報告出來沒多久之後就質詢，那時候國防部有說會想辦法讓這些在海外訓練的人才回到這邊之後儘量能夠融入到軍中，不然的話，我之前在問的時候就有發現，他們很多人在國外受訓回來之後，結果最多是叫他們做翻譯、做傳譯，因為他們英文好，但是我總覺得他們到國外做訓練的這件事情，最主要應該不是他們英文好而已，而是他們對於先進的技術、先進的文化、管理的方式等等之類的，能夠把這些帶入到國軍做更好的改革。","我看到業報，其實這次有講到國防創新小組（DIO），已經比去年更好了，因為它有更多採購合作等等之類的，這個進步看到了，但關於這一種留外官兵，不管是到外面有派職過的或者有訓練過的，能不能夠讓他回到國軍做更好的整合？關於這個部分，這一年以來大概做了哪些努力？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我們現在這邊相關的都很重視這些國外軍校畢業生循正常經管來歷練的部分，所以國防部本身每半年就會做一次經管的控管，現在都掌握了，有近200個人，這近200個人循經管的歷練讓他能夠逐步在軍中成長，我想不會有請他做翻譯的狀況，我們已經是每半年要控管一次，也請各軍種要注意到這個狀況。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，因為時間的關係，主席再給我20秒。希望有一個簡單的統計，就是這一些人到時候是否留營的狀況或等等之類的，是不是在兩個禮拜內給我這個資料？"],["顧部長立雄：好的。"],["沈委員伯洋：希望未來以後也不要再發生，因為現在又聽到一些，我就會有點擔心。"],["顧部長立雄：因為可能不宜公開說明這些相關的人員，我們私下可以就這些管控的部分跟委員做一個詳細的說明。"],["沈委員伯洋：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","不好意思，沈伯洋委員質詢完畢後休息5分鐘。","休息（11時14分）","繼續開會（11時20分）"],["主席：請各位就座，現在繼續開會。","接下來請林楚茵委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-8","speakers":["馬文君","王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","黃仁","沈伯洋","林楚茵","徐巧芯","賴士葆","林德福","王鴻薇","陳冠廷","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","林憶君"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148801_00004"}}}