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0.918}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 772.034, \"end\": 772.194, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 772.194, \"end\": 772.475, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 772.475, \"end\": 772.655, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 772.655, \"end\": 772.835, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 772.835, \"end\": 773.675, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 773.675, \"end\": 774.896, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 774.896, \"end\": 775.037, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 775.037, \"end\": 775.297, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 775.297, \"end\": 775.957, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"挹\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 775.957, \"end\": 776.177, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 776.177, \"end\": 776.197, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:00,950\n有請顧部長是林委員\n\n2\n00:00:09,447 --> 00:00:34,214\n部長早安我要提的這個命題當然我想是現在全民針對這個國防部比較關心的那當然就是防範散兵這個議題喔那麼當然我們知道喔最近如果您有留意到這些社群平台當中就提到身為公眾人物尤其是藝人大概就是\n\n3\n00:00:35,094 --> 00:00:53,224\n造他的這個所謂社會形象來讓粉絲買單那麼一個藝人紅不紅當然我覺得作為我們一樣是政治人物的部分我們沒有辦法去做太多的評論但是相較於我們鄰近的韓國他們每一個\n\n4\n00:00:54,764 --> 00:01:16,017\n韓國的男性的藝人只要是不當兵或者是找到理由不當兵被社會發現的話就會出現根本不要在娛樂圈混了那麼我覺得這當然也是跟國情有點不一樣那麼對於現在這些藝人到底他們是用了什麼樣的方式能夠不服兵役那麼這個部分我相信檢調單位以及內政部也都說了要把這些相關的規範再來做報導\n\n5\n00:01:23,482 --> 00:01:47,194\n但是身為這個所謂的兵役的主管機關我想要請這個部長先看一下一個影片好了因為這個影片我自己看了覺得這跟真的是在人情世故上面台灣也許真的很多的藝人朋友應該也要看一下這個影片我來放一下這個是韓國的藝人玄冰我想這個\n\n6\n00:01:54,209 --> 00:02:12,141\n他在退役的时候他办了一个粉丝在营区当中迎接他那他为了感谢这个粉丝等了他三年喔那么他甚至于是直接在这个营区外面喔对粉丝行这个他们韩国叫做大礼啦那\n\n7\n00:02:14,537 --> 00:02:39,368\n我真的是覺得身為這個國防委員台灣的這些藝人朋友們真的要看一看就是如果你去當兵而且你為國家做奉獻我相信這個你對國家做出奉獻的這種榮譽感粉絲不會離開你而且粉絲會真的覺得你要對國家有所付出所以今天回到部長我這前情提要講的比較久那就是\n\n8\n00:02:42,250 --> 00:03:10,596\n在這個現在被揭露的閃兵的名單當中喔甚至於還有人是有拿到了這個我們的所謂三金就是金鐘金馬金曲有提名的甚至於有得獎的那我要強調的就是如果說現在他被發現他是用各種不法的手段逃避了兵役\n\n9\n00:03:12,112 --> 00:03:33,708\n結果我們的國家文化部還給他三金的獎勵這不是很諷刺嗎所以部長我當然知道這是文化部的事但是身為這個主管機關部長有沒有可能跟文化部商量對於這些身為公眾人物尤其是藝人就是靠形象來賺取社會上面或者是粉絲上面給他們\n\n10\n00:03:40,526 --> 00:04:03,562\n的支持的時候那像這樣的獎項是不是應該要拿回來至少我們覺得他不足以拿到這樣的榮譽是吧部長你怎麼看我想一南意圖以這些不法的手段來逃避兵役那是有將由內政部來依法以送檢調來偵辦那我們認為\n\n11\n00:04:08,486 --> 00:04:34,032\n這樣子的一種不法的這種方式來規避這個兵役的義務的話當然我們都是深切認為要期期以為不可啦所以國安部的態度當然是希望就是說大家都要服他應盡的義務那不要有妨礙兵役的這樣子的一個行為\n\n12\n00:04:35,382 --> 00:04:49,510\n因為我真的我認為啦這個說起來藝人他一定會有示範的作用現在在民間當然從一開始這個事件爆發從王大陸開始一直到現在幾個被約談的藝人來講我覺得他就是一種示範的作用\n\n13\n00:04:54,332 --> 00:05:17,920\n那這樣的示範的作用當然是錯誤的示範或是不良的示範我會特別提起這個部分是除了他應該要面對的法律責任之外我是不是可以請部長可以跟文化部做跨部會的一個商量甚至於要提出這樣的一個建議這是本席的建議但是我認為這個必須要有一些做法否則對這些藝人來講他可能說我就出來道個歉反正呢也過了這麼多年了但是這種榮譽\n\n14\n00:05:24,142 --> 00:05:40,349\n國家不應該給雖然說各個部會之間是平行的但是總不能是因為部長你認為岐岐不可的事情但是文化部所主辦的三金金鐘金馬金曲還頒獎給他那雖然說這個是已經得拿到的獎項那已經拿到的獎項能不能沒收能不能把他要求拿回來我覺得這個部分是不是可以考慮\n\n15\n00:05:54,910 --> 00:06:21,007\n我想國防部的立場就是對這樣的一個行為要予以譴責但是就這個有關相關他得獎的這個部分的話我想我們還是要尊重文化部的權責好沒有關係這通通的題目我也會來問文化部但是至少部長這樣的做法就是一個不良示範那如果國家還給予其他獎項的肯定那這不等於是打臉國防部嗎\n\n16\n00:06:22,128 --> 00:06:38,835\n而不是打臉那些其他來禁服兵役的禁義務的人嗎就是他一方面他可以這個用盡各種方法不履行國民的義務但是一方面他可以欸這不是不只是拿獎欸拿獎還可以拿獎金欸那我覺得像這樣的\n\n17\n00:06:42,176 --> 00:07:06,213\n我覺得身為公眾人物或是身為藝人這是覺得岂其不可違但是我相信部長因為你講得很清楚啦這個不是國防部的業務那沒有問題我也會來跟文化部長來做詢答那麼第二個當然我們要扭轉喔這個有關於當兵的負面印象國防部這一針對你們所提出來的報告就是我們現在在國軍招募已經有成了但是還是有一些努力的空間喔那麼國防部目前呢在\n\n18\n00:07:09,695 --> 00:07:22,689\n到9月30號為止流行率是有到86.7%那麼比以往要來的高那麼在9月30號已經招募了13000多人那麼也達到了目標的89%那麼在這個部分喔\n\n19\n00:07:25,631 --> 00:07:42,296\n為什麼我會用這個有關於閃兵的這個部分來做開頭就是我相信我們在有關於提升不論是自願役或是義務役的薪資的部分還有在整個設備的部分其實都有做努力那麼部長這邊或是國防部這裡認為還有沒有什麼可以加強的部分我想我們主要就是說讓這個整個\n\n20\n00:07:52,116 --> 00:08:08,164\n著重於這個戰備演訓的這個這個核心任務這一塊然後讓他們覺得當兵是具有一個榮譽感然後而且我們對相關的管理要\n\n21\n00:08:09,249 --> 00:08:33,720\n我一直提的這個檢法思維的這樣的一個管理的作為然後另外呢我想對於冠病的實質照顧我們也要來提升那相關這些應該如果有有不適應的這個現象的話我們也要從事一個相關的輔導讓他能夠有一個能夠持續的願意為國來來服務這樣\n\n22\n00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:50,344\n好所以其實不只是物質上薪資上在心理上其實部長剛剛也特別提到了所以本席要來請問一下就是我稍微看了一下115年度的預算就是114年度在三讀之後政戰局是388萬軍醫局是1360萬一共是總計是1748萬但是我們115年度全部就都編在政戰局裡面就是有關於\n\n23\n00:09:05,649 --> 00:09:12,311\n國軍的心理健康照顧的這個部分其實從問卷上面來看都很滿意啊這個同意繼續維持或者是覺得對於官兵在身心上面的照顧的都是同意加上渴的加起來都高達99%大家幾乎都覺得不錯可是為什麼這個預算反而少了300萬可以理解可不可以講一下\n\n24\n00:09:32,876 --> 00:09:57,375\n在野黨的委員或者是我們這些立法委員都還沒有砍預算你們就自己把預算往下降原因在哪裡如果大家都覺得很滿意委員好我是政政局長跟你報告因為這個心理衛生心理健康的這個照護方案是從今年的2月13號開始實行也就是說它今年是第一次辦所以我們在預估它所需的人數上面我們是依照衛福部的這個年輕族群的一個覆蓋比的一個算法\n\n25\n00:10:02,219 --> 00:10:13,971\n那當然我們在宣傳上面我們還要持續在努力我們是依照今年去使用的人數去推估明年可以去運用這項方案善用這項資源的人數所以這個方案我們會持續在這個準決預算就是精準去使用這項預算的一個考量之下那我們未來會持續努力的去推廣這項的服務\n\n26\n00:10:25,683 --> 00:10:29,826\n局長您的言下之意是您認為使用的人數會變少嗎不然預算減少只有兩個原因一個大概就是費用變便便宜但是我認為像這樣的費用一定是有它的這個就是一定的標準在那裡嘛\n\n27\n00:10:42,014 --> 00:11:04,383\n那一定就是人變少那麼您認為人變少是因為使用的人會變少大家心裡都變健康了嗎我想局長的意思應該是說我們今年的2月13號到9月30號我們依照這個使用的人數來推估明年然後來核實來編列所以你們就是已經很核實編列了已經滯降300萬\n\n28\n00:11:06,785 --> 00:11:10,087\n這個部分可能要我覺得是很關心你們因為我認為喔這個心理輔導的過去大概都說Paul是輔導長或是說做一些身心上面的調節這是我我沒有當過兵啦我是在這個軍教電影裡面看到好那現在我們有專業的心理師在做協助的時候那我其實比較好奇的是這樣的算法是什麼\n\n29\n00:11:27,278 --> 00:11:29,379\n那如果說你們是真的已經核實編列編的很扎實了那在這裡你們要大聲講出來希望這個委員們不要再來砍這個預算因為我真的認為這樣的預算非常重要\n\n30\n00:11:39,105 --> 00:11:55,236\n謝謝委員我也非常感謝所有委員對於我們官兵心理健康的關切跟照顧那麼我們確實是依照今年預算編列後面評估他可能會會有一些餘裕的情況因為我們今年大概使用了4200多人次那我想\n\n31\n00:11:57,838 --> 00:12:11,769\n這樣子的一個宣傳的力度我們會持續的強化那預估到明年可能會使用的我們已經先把這個預算先做一個核實的精算了那麼未來會跟著他使用人數的狀況我們再去做調節\n\n32\n00:12:12,749 --> 00:12:40,353\n所以其實局長講得很清楚啦就是其實一年每一次每一個人是補助一千六然後一年其實可以有六次但是因為知道的人不多所以會使用不多所以有宣傳上面的問題但是當然我不希望說是因為也有認為說因為使用的人太多可能不太好但是我認為這兩者之間希望不是有正相關而是真的我們的國軍弟兄都是因為身心健康使用率不高是這樣子\n\n33\n00:12:41,346 --> 00:12:56,197\n我想我們不會說他使用過多我想我們應該多多來宣導讓這個每個人都認為有需要這樣子的一個協助的時候他都能夠得到這個經費的挹注好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t950\t有請顧部長是 林委員\n9447\t34214\t部長早安我要提的這個命題當然我想是現在全民針對這個國防部比較關心的那當然就是防範散兵這個議題喔那麼當然我們知道喔最近如果您有留意到這些社群平台當中就提到身為公眾人物尤其是藝人大概就是\n35094\t53224\t造他的這個所謂社會形象來讓粉絲買單那麼一個藝人紅不紅當然我覺得作為我們一樣是政治人物的部分我們沒有辦法去做太多的評論但是相較於我們鄰近的韓國他們每一個\n54764\t76017\t韓國的男性的藝人只要是不當兵或者是找到理由不當兵被社會發現的話就會出現根本不要在娛樂圈混了那麼我覺得這當然也是跟國情有點不一樣那麼對於現在這些藝人到底他們是用了什麼樣的方式能夠不服兵役那麼這個部分我相信檢調單位以及內政部也都說了要把這些相關的規範再來做報導\n83482\t107194\t但是身為這個所謂的兵役的主管機關我想要請這個部長先看一下一個影片好了因為這個影片我自己看了覺得這跟真的是在人情世故上面台灣也許真的很多的藝人朋友應該也要看一下這個影片我來放一下這個是韓國的藝人玄冰我想這個\n114209\t132141\t他在退役的时候他办了一个粉丝在营区当中迎接他那他为了感谢这个粉丝等了他三年喔那么他甚至于是直接在这个营区外面喔对粉丝行这个他们韩国叫做大礼啦那\n134537\t159368\t我真的是覺得身為這個國防委員台灣的這些藝人朋友們真的要看一看就是如果你去當兵而且你為國家做奉獻我相信這個你對國家做出奉獻的這種榮譽感粉絲不會離開你而且粉絲會真的覺得你要對國家有所付出所以今天回到部長我這前情提要講的比較久那就是\n162250\t190596\t在這個現在被揭露的閃兵的名單當中喔甚至於還有人是有拿到了這個我們的所謂三金就是金鐘 金馬 金曲有提名的甚至於有得獎的那我要強調的就是如果說現在他被發現他是用各種不法的手段逃避了兵役\n192112\t213708\t結果我們的國家文化部還給他三金的獎勵這不是很諷刺嗎所以部長我當然知道這是文化部的事但是身為這個主管機關部長有沒有可能跟文化部商量對於這些身為公眾人物尤其是藝人就是靠形象來賺取社會上面或者是粉絲上面給他們\n220526\t243562\t的支持的時候 那像這樣的獎項是不是應該要拿回來至少我們覺得他不足以拿到這樣的榮譽 是吧 部長你怎麼看我想一南意圖以這些不法的手段來逃避兵役那是有將由內政部來依法 以送檢調來偵辦那我們認為\n248486\t274032\t這樣子的一種不法的這種方式來規避這個兵役的義務的話當然我們都是深切認為要期期以為不可啦所以國安部的態度當然是希望就是說大家都要服他應盡的義務那不要有妨礙兵役的這樣子的一個行為\n275382\t289510\t因為我真的 我認為啦這個說起來藝人他一定會有示範的作用現在在民間當然從一開始這個事件爆發從王大陸開始一直到現在幾個被約談的藝人來講我覺得他就是一種示範的作用\n294332\t317920\t那這樣的示範的作用當然是錯誤的示範或是不良的示範我會特別提起這個部分是除了他應該要面對的法律責任之外我是不是可以請部長可以跟文化部做跨部會的一個商量甚至於要提出這樣的一個建議這是本席的建議但是我認為這個必須要有一些做法否則對這些藝人來講他可能說我就出來道個歉反正呢也過了這麼多年了但是這種榮譽\n324142\t340349\t國家不應該給雖然說各個部會之間是平行的但是總不能是因為部長你認為岐岐不可的事情但是文化部所主辦的三金金鐘金馬金曲還頒獎給他那雖然說這個是已經得拿到的獎項那已經拿到的獎項能不能沒收 能不能把他要求拿回來我覺得這個部分是不是可以考慮\n354910\t381007\t我想國防部的立場就是對這樣的一個行為要予以譴責但是就這個有關相關他得獎的這個部分的話我想我們還是要尊重文化部的權責好沒有關係這通通的題目我也會來問文化部但是至少部長這樣的做法就是一個不良示範那如果國家還給予其他獎項的肯定那這不等於是打臉國防部嗎\n382128\t398835\t而不是打臉那些其他來禁服兵役的禁義務的人嗎就是他一方面他可以這個用盡各種方法不履行國民的義務但是一方面他可以欸這不是不只是拿獎欸拿獎還可以拿獎金欸那我覺得像這樣的\n402176\t426213\t我覺得身為公眾人物或是身為藝人這是覺得岂其不可違但是我相信部長因為你講得很清楚啦這個不是國防部的業務那沒有問題我也會來跟文化部長來做詢答那麼第二個當然我們要扭轉喔這個有關於當兵的負面印象國防部這一針對你們所提出來的報告就是我們現在在國軍招募已經有成了但是還是有一些努力的空間喔那麼國防部目前呢在\n429695\t442689\t到9月30號為止流行率是有到86.7%那麼比以往要來的高那麼在9月30號已經招募了13000多人那麼也達到了目標的89%那麼在這個部分喔\n445631\t462296\t為什麼我會用這個有關於閃兵的這個部分來做開頭就是我相信我們在有關於提升不論是自願役或是義務役的薪資的部分還有在整個設備的部分其實都有做努力那麼部長這邊或是國防部這裡認為還有沒有什麼可以加強的部分我想我們主要就是說讓這個整個\n472116\t488164\t著重於這個戰備演訓的這個這個核心任務這一塊然後讓他們覺得當兵是具有一個榮譽感然後而且我們對相關的管理要\n489249\t513720\t我一直提的這個檢法思維的這樣的一個管理的作為然後另外呢我想對於冠病的實質照顧我們也要來提升那相關這些應該如果有有不適應的這個現象的話我們也要從事一個相關的輔導讓他能夠有一個能夠持續的願意為國來來服務這樣\n516840\t530344\t好 所以其實不只是物質上 薪資上在心理上其實部長剛剛也特別提到了所以本席要來請問一下就是我稍微看了一下115年度的預算就是114年度在三讀之後 政戰局是388萬軍醫局是1360萬一共是總計是1748萬但是我們115年度全部就都編在政戰局裡面就是有關於\n545649\t552311\t國軍的心理健康照顧的這個部分其實從問卷上面來看都很滿意啊這個同意繼續維持或者是覺得對於官兵在身心上面的照顧的都是同意加上渴的加起來都高達99%大家幾乎都覺得不錯可是為什麼這個預算反而少了300萬可以理解可不可以講一下\n572876\t597375\t在野黨的委員 或者是我們這些立法委員都還沒有砍預算你們就自己把預算往下降原因在哪裡 如果大家都覺得很滿意委員好 我是政政局長跟你報告 因為這個心理衛生 心理健康的這個照護方案是從今年的2月13號開始實行也就是說它今年是第一次辦所以我們在預估它所需的人數上面我們是依照衛福部的這個年輕族群的一個覆蓋比的一個算法\n602219\t613971\t那當然我們在宣傳上面我們還要持續在努力我們是依照今年去使用的人數去推估明年可以去運用這項方案 善用這項資源的人數所以這個方案我們會持續在這個準決預算就是精準去使用這項預算的一個考量之下那我們未來會持續努力的去推廣這項的服務\n625683\t629826\t局長您的言下之意是您認為使用的人數會變少嗎不然預算減少只有兩個原因一個大概就是費用變便便宜但是我認為像這樣的費用一定是有它的這個就是一定的標準在那裡嘛\n642014\t664383\t那一定就是人變少那麼您認為人變少是因為使用的人會變少大家心裡都變健康了嗎我想局長的意思應該是說我們今年的2月13號到9月30號我們依照這個使用的人數來推估明年然後來核實來編列所以你們就是已經很核實編列了已經滯降300萬\n666785\t670087\t這個部分可能要 我覺得是很關心你們 因為我認為喔 這個心理輔導的 過去大概都說Paul 是輔導長或是說做一些身心上面的調節這是我 我沒有當過兵啦 我是在這個軍教電影裡面看到好 那現在我們有專業的心理師 在做協助的時候那我其實比較好奇的是 這樣的算法是什麼\n687278\t689379\t那如果說你們是真的已經核實編列編的很扎實了那在這裡你們要大聲講出來希望這個委員們不要再來砍這個預算因為我真的認為這樣的預算非常重要\n699105\t715236\t謝謝委員我也非常感謝所有委員對於我們官兵心理健康的關切跟照顧那麼我們確實是依照今年預算編列後面評估他可能會會有一些餘裕的情況因為我們今年大概使用了4200多人次那我想\n717838\t731769\t這樣子的一個宣傳的力度我們會持續的強化那預估到明年可能會使用的我們已經先把這個預算先做一個核實的精算了那麼未來會跟著他使用人數的狀況我們再去做調節\n732749\t760353\t所以其實局長講得很清楚啦就是其實一年每一次每一個人是補助一千六然後一年其實可以有六次但是因為知道的人不多所以會使用不多所以有宣傳上面的問題但是當然我不希望說是因為也有認為說因為使用的人太多可能不太好但是我認為這兩者之間希望不是有正相關而是真的我們的國軍弟兄都是因為身心健康使用率不高是這樣子\n761346\t776197\t我想我們不會說他使用過多我想我們應該多多來宣導讓這個每個人都認為有需要這樣子的一個協助的時候他都能夠得到這個經費的挹注好 謝謝\n","txt":"有請顧部長是 林委員\n部長早安我要提的這個命題當然我想是現在全民針對這個國防部比較關心的那當然就是防範散兵這個議題喔那麼當然我們知道喔最近如果您有留意到這些社群平台當中就提到身為公眾人物尤其是藝人大概就是\n造他的這個所謂社會形象來讓粉絲買單那麼一個藝人紅不紅當然我覺得作為我們一樣是政治人物的部分我們沒有辦法去做太多的評論但是相較於我們鄰近的韓國他們每一個\n韓國的男性的藝人只要是不當兵或者是找到理由不當兵被社會發現的話就會出現根本不要在娛樂圈混了那麼我覺得這當然也是跟國情有點不一樣那麼對於現在這些藝人到底他們是用了什麼樣的方式能夠不服兵役那麼這個部分我相信檢調單位以及內政部也都說了要把這些相關的規範再來做報導\n但是身為這個所謂的兵役的主管機關我想要請這個部長先看一下一個影片好了因為這個影片我自己看了覺得這跟真的是在人情世故上面台灣也許真的很多的藝人朋友應該也要看一下這個影片我來放一下這個是韓國的藝人玄冰我想這個\n他在退役的时候他办了一个粉丝在营区当中迎接他那他为了感谢这个粉丝等了他三年喔那么他甚至于是直接在这个营区外面喔对粉丝行这个他们韩国叫做大礼啦那\n我真的是覺得身為這個國防委員台灣的這些藝人朋友們真的要看一看就是如果你去當兵而且你為國家做奉獻我相信這個你對國家做出奉獻的這種榮譽感粉絲不會離開你而且粉絲會真的覺得你要對國家有所付出所以今天回到部長我這前情提要講的比較久那就是\n在這個現在被揭露的閃兵的名單當中喔甚至於還有人是有拿到了這個我們的所謂三金就是金鐘 金馬 金曲有提名的甚至於有得獎的那我要強調的就是如果說現在他被發現他是用各種不法的手段逃避了兵役\n結果我們的國家文化部還給他三金的獎勵這不是很諷刺嗎所以部長我當然知道這是文化部的事但是身為這個主管機關部長有沒有可能跟文化部商量對於這些身為公眾人物尤其是藝人就是靠形象來賺取社會上面或者是粉絲上面給他們\n的支持的時候 那像這樣的獎項是不是應該要拿回來至少我們覺得他不足以拿到這樣的榮譽 是吧 部長你怎麼看我想一南意圖以這些不法的手段來逃避兵役那是有將由內政部來依法 以送檢調來偵辦那我們認為\n這樣子的一種不法的這種方式來規避這個兵役的義務的話當然我們都是深切認為要期期以為不可啦所以國安部的態度當然是希望就是說大家都要服他應盡的義務那不要有妨礙兵役的這樣子的一個行為\n因為我真的 我認為啦這個說起來藝人他一定會有示範的作用現在在民間當然從一開始這個事件爆發從王大陸開始一直到現在幾個被約談的藝人來講我覺得他就是一種示範的作用\n那這樣的示範的作用當然是錯誤的示範或是不良的示範我會特別提起這個部分是除了他應該要面對的法律責任之外我是不是可以請部長可以跟文化部做跨部會的一個商量甚至於要提出這樣的一個建議這是本席的建議但是我認為這個必須要有一些做法否則對這些藝人來講他可能說我就出來道個歉反正呢也過了這麼多年了但是這種榮譽\n國家不應該給雖然說各個部會之間是平行的但是總不能是因為部長你認為岐岐不可的事情但是文化部所主辦的三金金鐘金馬金曲還頒獎給他那雖然說這個是已經得拿到的獎項那已經拿到的獎項能不能沒收 能不能把他要求拿回來我覺得這個部分是不是可以考慮\n我想國防部的立場就是對這樣的一個行為要予以譴責但是就這個有關相關他得獎的這個部分的話我想我們還是要尊重文化部的權責好沒有關係這通通的題目我也會來問文化部但是至少部長這樣的做法就是一個不良示範那如果國家還給予其他獎項的肯定那這不等於是打臉國防部嗎\n而不是打臉那些其他來禁服兵役的禁義務的人嗎就是他一方面他可以這個用盡各種方法不履行國民的義務但是一方面他可以欸這不是不只是拿獎欸拿獎還可以拿獎金欸那我覺得像這樣的\n我覺得身為公眾人物或是身為藝人這是覺得岂其不可違但是我相信部長因為你講得很清楚啦這個不是國防部的業務那沒有問題我也會來跟文化部長來做詢答那麼第二個當然我們要扭轉喔這個有關於當兵的負面印象國防部這一針對你們所提出來的報告就是我們現在在國軍招募已經有成了但是還是有一些努力的空間喔那麼國防部目前呢在\n到9月30號為止流行率是有到86.7%那麼比以往要來的高那麼在9月30號已經招募了13000多人那麼也達到了目標的89%那麼在這個部分喔\n為什麼我會用這個有關於閃兵的這個部分來做開頭就是我相信我們在有關於提升不論是自願役或是義務役的薪資的部分還有在整個設備的部分其實都有做努力那麼部長這邊或是國防部這裡認為還有沒有什麼可以加強的部分我想我們主要就是說讓這個整個\n著重於這個戰備演訓的這個這個核心任務這一塊然後讓他們覺得當兵是具有一個榮譽感然後而且我們對相關的管理要\n我一直提的這個檢法思維的這樣的一個管理的作為然後另外呢我想對於冠病的實質照顧我們也要來提升那相關這些應該如果有有不適應的這個現象的話我們也要從事一個相關的輔導讓他能夠有一個能夠持續的願意為國來來服務這樣\n好 所以其實不只是物質上 薪資上在心理上其實部長剛剛也特別提到了所以本席要來請問一下就是我稍微看了一下115年度的預算就是114年度在三讀之後 政戰局是388萬軍醫局是1360萬一共是總計是1748萬但是我們115年度全部就都編在政戰局裡面就是有關於\n國軍的心理健康照顧的這個部分其實從問卷上面來看都很滿意啊這個同意繼續維持或者是覺得對於官兵在身心上面的照顧的都是同意加上渴的加起來都高達99%大家幾乎都覺得不錯可是為什麼這個預算反而少了300萬可以理解可不可以講一下\n在野黨的委員 或者是我們這些立法委員都還沒有砍預算你們就自己把預算往下降原因在哪裡 如果大家都覺得很滿意委員好 我是政政局長跟你報告 因為這個心理衛生 心理健康的這個照護方案是從今年的2月13號開始實行也就是說它今年是第一次辦所以我們在預估它所需的人數上面我們是依照衛福部的這個年輕族群的一個覆蓋比的一個算法\n那當然我們在宣傳上面我們還要持續在努力我們是依照今年去使用的人數去推估明年可以去運用這項方案 善用這項資源的人數所以這個方案我們會持續在這個準決預算就是精準去使用這項預算的一個考量之下那我們未來會持續努力的去推廣這項的服務\n局長您的言下之意是您認為使用的人數會變少嗎不然預算減少只有兩個原因一個大概就是費用變便便宜但是我認為像這樣的費用一定是有它的這個就是一定的標準在那裡嘛\n那一定就是人變少那麼您認為人變少是因為使用的人會變少大家心裡都變健康了嗎我想局長的意思應該是說我們今年的2月13號到9月30號我們依照這個使用的人數來推估明年然後來核實來編列所以你們就是已經很核實編列了已經滯降300萬\n這個部分可能要 我覺得是很關心你們 因為我認為喔 這個心理輔導的 過去大概都說Paul 是輔導長或是說做一些身心上面的調節這是我 我沒有當過兵啦 我是在這個軍教電影裡面看到好 那現在我們有專業的心理師 在做協助的時候那我其實比較好奇的是 這樣的算法是什麼\n那如果說你們是真的已經核實編列編的很扎實了那在這裡你們要大聲講出來希望這個委員們不要再來砍這個預算因為我真的認為這樣的預算非常重要\n謝謝委員我也非常感謝所有委員對於我們官兵心理健康的關切跟照顧那麼我們確實是依照今年預算編列後面評估他可能會會有一些餘裕的情況因為我們今年大概使用了4200多人次那我想\n這樣子的一個宣傳的力度我們會持續的強化那預估到明年可能會使用的我們已經先把這個預算先做一個核實的精算了那麼未來會跟著他使用人數的狀況我們再去做調節\n所以其實局長講得很清楚啦就是其實一年每一次每一個人是補助一千六然後一年其實可以有六次但是因為知道的人不多所以會使用不多所以有宣傳上面的問題但是當然我不希望說是因為也有認為說因為使用的人太多可能不太好但是我認為這兩者之間希望不是有正相關而是真的我們的國軍弟兄都是因為身心健康使用率不高是這樣子\n我想我們不會說他使用過多我想我們應該多多來宣導讓這個每個人都認為有需要這樣子的一個協助的時候他都能夠得到這個經費的挹注好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:00.950\n有請顧部長是林委員\n\n00:09.447 --> 00:34.214\n部長早安我要提的這個命題當然我想是現在全民針對這個國防部比較關心的那當然就是防範散兵這個議題喔那麼當然我們知道喔最近如果您有留意到這些社群平台當中就提到身為公眾人物尤其是藝人大概就是\n\n00:35.094 --> 00:53.224\n造他的這個所謂社會形象來讓粉絲買單那麼一個藝人紅不紅當然我覺得作為我們一樣是政治人物的部分我們沒有辦法去做太多的評論但是相較於我們鄰近的韓國他們每一個\n\n00:54.764 --> 01:16.017\n韓國的男性的藝人只要是不當兵或者是找到理由不當兵被社會發現的話就會出現根本不要在娛樂圈混了那麼我覺得這當然也是跟國情有點不一樣那麼對於現在這些藝人到底他們是用了什麼樣的方式能夠不服兵役那麼這個部分我相信檢調單位以及內政部也都說了要把這些相關的規範再來做報導\n\n01:23.482 --> 01:47.194\n但是身為這個所謂的兵役的主管機關我想要請這個部長先看一下一個影片好了因為這個影片我自己看了覺得這跟真的是在人情世故上面台灣也許真的很多的藝人朋友應該也要看一下這個影片我來放一下這個是韓國的藝人玄冰我想這個\n\n01:54.209 --> 02:12.141\n他在退役的时候他办了一个粉丝在营区当中迎接他那他为了感谢这个粉丝等了他三年喔那么他甚至于是直接在这个营区外面喔对粉丝行这个他们韩国叫做大礼啦那\n\n02:14.537 --> 02:39.368\n我真的是覺得身為這個國防委員台灣的這些藝人朋友們真的要看一看就是如果你去當兵而且你為國家做奉獻我相信這個你對國家做出奉獻的這種榮譽感粉絲不會離開你而且粉絲會真的覺得你要對國家有所付出所以今天回到部長我這前情提要講的比較久那就是\n\n02:42.250 --> 03:10.596\n在這個現在被揭露的閃兵的名單當中喔甚至於還有人是有拿到了這個我們的所謂三金就是金鐘金馬金曲有提名的甚至於有得獎的那我要強調的就是如果說現在他被發現他是用各種不法的手段逃避了兵役\n\n03:12.112 --> 03:33.708\n結果我們的國家文化部還給他三金的獎勵這不是很諷刺嗎所以部長我當然知道這是文化部的事但是身為這個主管機關部長有沒有可能跟文化部商量對於這些身為公眾人物尤其是藝人就是靠形象來賺取社會上面或者是粉絲上面給他們\n\n03:40.526 --> 04:03.562\n的支持的時候那像這樣的獎項是不是應該要拿回來至少我們覺得他不足以拿到這樣的榮譽是吧部長你怎麼看我想一南意圖以這些不法的手段來逃避兵役那是有將由內政部來依法以送檢調來偵辦那我們認為\n\n04:08.486 --> 04:34.032\n這樣子的一種不法的這種方式來規避這個兵役的義務的話當然我們都是深切認為要期期以為不可啦所以國安部的態度當然是希望就是說大家都要服他應盡的義務那不要有妨礙兵役的這樣子的一個行為\n\n04:35.382 --> 04:49.510\n因為我真的我認為啦這個說起來藝人他一定會有示範的作用現在在民間當然從一開始這個事件爆發從王大陸開始一直到現在幾個被約談的藝人來講我覺得他就是一種示範的作用\n\n04:54.332 --> 05:17.920\n那這樣的示範的作用當然是錯誤的示範或是不良的示範我會特別提起這個部分是除了他應該要面對的法律責任之外我是不是可以請部長可以跟文化部做跨部會的一個商量甚至於要提出這樣的一個建議這是本席的建議但是我認為這個必須要有一些做法否則對這些藝人來講他可能說我就出來道個歉反正呢也過了這麼多年了但是這種榮譽\n\n05:24.142 --> 05:40.349\n國家不應該給雖然說各個部會之間是平行的但是總不能是因為部長你認為岐岐不可的事情但是文化部所主辦的三金金鐘金馬金曲還頒獎給他那雖然說這個是已經得拿到的獎項那已經拿到的獎項能不能沒收能不能把他要求拿回來我覺得這個部分是不是可以考慮\n\n05:54.910 --> 06:21.007\n我想國防部的立場就是對這樣的一個行為要予以譴責但是就這個有關相關他得獎的這個部分的話我想我們還是要尊重文化部的權責好沒有關係這通通的題目我也會來問文化部但是至少部長這樣的做法就是一個不良示範那如果國家還給予其他獎項的肯定那這不等於是打臉國防部嗎\n\n06:22.128 --> 06:38.835\n而不是打臉那些其他來禁服兵役的禁義務的人嗎就是他一方面他可以這個用盡各種方法不履行國民的義務但是一方面他可以欸這不是不只是拿獎欸拿獎還可以拿獎金欸那我覺得像這樣的\n\n06:42.176 --> 07:06.213\n我覺得身為公眾人物或是身為藝人這是覺得岂其不可違但是我相信部長因為你講得很清楚啦這個不是國防部的業務那沒有問題我也會來跟文化部長來做詢答那麼第二個當然我們要扭轉喔這個有關於當兵的負面印象國防部這一針對你們所提出來的報告就是我們現在在國軍招募已經有成了但是還是有一些努力的空間喔那麼國防部目前呢在\n\n07:09.695 --> 07:22.689\n到9月30號為止流行率是有到86.7%那麼比以往要來的高那麼在9月30號已經招募了13000多人那麼也達到了目標的89%那麼在這個部分喔\n\n07:25.631 --> 07:42.296\n為什麼我會用這個有關於閃兵的這個部分來做開頭就是我相信我們在有關於提升不論是自願役或是義務役的薪資的部分還有在整個設備的部分其實都有做努力那麼部長這邊或是國防部這裡認為還有沒有什麼可以加強的部分我想我們主要就是說讓這個整個\n\n07:52.116 --> 08:08.164\n著重於這個戰備演訓的這個這個核心任務這一塊然後讓他們覺得當兵是具有一個榮譽感然後而且我們對相關的管理要\n\n08:09.249 --> 08:33.720\n我一直提的這個檢法思維的這樣的一個管理的作為然後另外呢我想對於冠病的實質照顧我們也要來提升那相關這些應該如果有有不適應的這個現象的話我們也要從事一個相關的輔導讓他能夠有一個能夠持續的願意為國來來服務這樣\n\n08:36.840 --> 08:50.344\n好所以其實不只是物質上薪資上在心理上其實部長剛剛也特別提到了所以本席要來請問一下就是我稍微看了一下115年度的預算就是114年度在三讀之後政戰局是388萬軍醫局是1360萬一共是總計是1748萬但是我們115年度全部就都編在政戰局裡面就是有關於\n\n09:05.649 --> 09:12.311\n國軍的心理健康照顧的這個部分其實從問卷上面來看都很滿意啊這個同意繼續維持或者是覺得對於官兵在身心上面的照顧的都是同意加上渴的加起來都高達99%大家幾乎都覺得不錯可是為什麼這個預算反而少了300萬可以理解可不可以講一下\n\n09:32.876 --> 09:57.375\n在野黨的委員或者是我們這些立法委員都還沒有砍預算你們就自己把預算往下降原因在哪裡如果大家都覺得很滿意委員好我是政政局長跟你報告因為這個心理衛生心理健康的這個照護方案是從今年的2月13號開始實行也就是說它今年是第一次辦所以我們在預估它所需的人數上面我們是依照衛福部的這個年輕族群的一個覆蓋比的一個算法\n\n10:02.219 --> 10:13.971\n那當然我們在宣傳上面我們還要持續在努力我們是依照今年去使用的人數去推估明年可以去運用這項方案善用這項資源的人數所以這個方案我們會持續在這個準決預算就是精準去使用這項預算的一個考量之下那我們未來會持續努力的去推廣這項的服務\n\n10:25.683 --> 10:29.826\n局長您的言下之意是您認為使用的人數會變少嗎不然預算減少只有兩個原因一個大概就是費用變便便宜但是我認為像這樣的費用一定是有它的這個就是一定的標準在那裡嘛\n\n10:42.014 --> 11:04.383\n那一定就是人變少那麼您認為人變少是因為使用的人會變少大家心裡都變健康了嗎我想局長的意思應該是說我們今年的2月13號到9月30號我們依照這個使用的人數來推估明年然後來核實來編列所以你們就是已經很核實編列了已經滯降300萬\n\n11:06.785 --> 11:10.087\n這個部分可能要我覺得是很關心你們因為我認為喔這個心理輔導的過去大概都說Paul是輔導長或是說做一些身心上面的調節這是我我沒有當過兵啦我是在這個軍教電影裡面看到好那現在我們有專業的心理師在做協助的時候那我其實比較好奇的是這樣的算法是什麼\n\n11:27.278 --> 11:29.379\n那如果說你們是真的已經核實編列編的很扎實了那在這裡你們要大聲講出來希望這個委員們不要再來砍這個預算因為我真的認為這樣的預算非常重要\n\n11:39.105 --> 11:55.236\n謝謝委員我也非常感謝所有委員對於我們官兵心理健康的關切跟照顧那麼我們確實是依照今年預算編列後面評估他可能會會有一些餘裕的情況因為我們今年大概使用了4200多人次那我想\n\n11:57.838 --> 12:11.769\n這樣子的一個宣傳的力度我們會持續的強化那預估到明年可能會使用的我們已經先把這個預算先做一個核實的精算了那麼未來會跟著他使用人數的狀況我們再去做調節\n\n12:12.749 --> 12:40.353\n所以其實局長講得很清楚啦就是其實一年每一次每一個人是補助一千六然後一年其實可以有六次但是因為知道的人不多所以會使用不多所以有宣傳上面的問題但是當然我不希望說是因為也有認為說因為使用的人太多可能不太好但是我認為這兩者之間希望不是有正相關而是真的我們的國軍弟兄都是因為身心健康使用率不高是這樣子\n\n12:41.346 --> 12:56.197\n我想我們不會說他使用過多我想我們應該多多來宣導讓這個每個人都認為有需要這樣子的一個協助的時候他都能夠得到這個經費的挹注好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":0.95,"text":"有請顧部長是 林委員"},{"start":9.447,"end":34.214,"text":"部長早安我要提的這個命題當然我想是現在全民針對這個國防部比較關心的那當然就是防範散兵這個議題喔那麼當然我們知道喔最近如果您有留意到這些社群平台當中就提到身為公眾人物尤其是藝人大概就是"},{"start":35.094,"end":53.224,"text":"造他的這個所謂社會形象來讓粉絲買單那麼一個藝人紅不紅當然我覺得作為我們一樣是政治人物的部分我們沒有辦法去做太多的評論但是相較於我們鄰近的韓國他們每一個"},{"start":54.764,"end":76.017,"text":"韓國的男性的藝人只要是不當兵或者是找到理由不當兵被社會發現的話就會出現根本不要在娛樂圈混了那麼我覺得這當然也是跟國情有點不一樣那麼對於現在這些藝人到底他們是用了什麼樣的方式能夠不服兵役那麼這個部分我相信檢調單位以及內政部也都說了要把這些相關的規範再來做報導"},{"start":83.482,"end":107.194,"text":"但是身為這個所謂的兵役的主管機關我想要請這個部長先看一下一個影片好了因為這個影片我自己看了覺得這跟真的是在人情世故上面台灣也許真的很多的藝人朋友應該也要看一下這個影片我來放一下這個是韓國的藝人玄冰我想這個"},{"start":114.209,"end":132.141,"text":"他在退役的时候他办了一个粉丝在营区当中迎接他那他为了感谢这个粉丝等了他三年喔那么他甚至于是直接在这个营区外面喔对粉丝行这个他们韩国叫做大礼啦那"},{"start":134.537,"end":159.368,"text":"我真的是覺得身為這個國防委員台灣的這些藝人朋友們真的要看一看就是如果你去當兵而且你為國家做奉獻我相信這個你對國家做出奉獻的這種榮譽感粉絲不會離開你而且粉絲會真的覺得你要對國家有所付出所以今天回到部長我這前情提要講的比較久那就是"},{"start":162.25,"end":190.596,"text":"在這個現在被揭露的閃兵的名單當中喔甚至於還有人是有拿到了這個我們的所謂三金就是金鐘 金馬 金曲有提名的甚至於有得獎的那我要強調的就是如果說現在他被發現他是用各種不法的手段逃避了兵役"},{"start":192.112,"end":213.708,"text":"結果我們的國家文化部還給他三金的獎勵這不是很諷刺嗎所以部長我當然知道這是文化部的事但是身為這個主管機關部長有沒有可能跟文化部商量對於這些身為公眾人物尤其是藝人就是靠形象來賺取社會上面或者是粉絲上面給他們"},{"start":220.526,"end":243.562,"text":"的支持的時候 那像這樣的獎項是不是應該要拿回來至少我們覺得他不足以拿到這樣的榮譽 是吧 部長你怎麼看我想一南意圖以這些不法的手段來逃避兵役那是有將由內政部來依法 以送檢調來偵辦那我們認為"},{"start":248.486,"end":274.032,"text":"這樣子的一種不法的這種方式來規避這個兵役的義務的話當然我們都是深切認為要期期以為不可啦所以國安部的態度當然是希望就是說大家都要服他應盡的義務那不要有妨礙兵役的這樣子的一個行為"},{"start":275.382,"end":289.51,"text":"因為我真的 我認為啦這個說起來藝人他一定會有示範的作用現在在民間當然從一開始這個事件爆發從王大陸開始一直到現在幾個被約談的藝人來講我覺得他就是一種示範的作用"},{"start":294.332,"end":317.92,"text":"那這樣的示範的作用當然是錯誤的示範或是不良的示範我會特別提起這個部分是除了他應該要面對的法律責任之外我是不是可以請部長可以跟文化部做跨部會的一個商量甚至於要提出這樣的一個建議這是本席的建議但是我認為這個必須要有一些做法否則對這些藝人來講他可能說我就出來道個歉反正呢也過了這麼多年了但是這種榮譽"},{"start":324.142,"end":340.349,"text":"國家不應該給雖然說各個部會之間是平行的但是總不能是因為部長你認為岐岐不可的事情但是文化部所主辦的三金金鐘金馬金曲還頒獎給他那雖然說這個是已經得拿到的獎項那已經拿到的獎項能不能沒收 能不能把他要求拿回來我覺得這個部分是不是可以考慮"},{"start":354.91,"end":381.007,"text":"我想國防部的立場就是對這樣的一個行為要予以譴責但是就這個有關相關他得獎的這個部分的話我想我們還是要尊重文化部的權責好沒有關係這通通的題目我也會來問文化部但是至少部長這樣的做法就是一個不良示範那如果國家還給予其他獎項的肯定那這不等於是打臉國防部嗎"},{"start":382.128,"end":398.835,"text":"而不是打臉那些其他來禁服兵役的禁義務的人嗎就是他一方面他可以這個用盡各種方法不履行國民的義務但是一方面他可以欸這不是不只是拿獎欸拿獎還可以拿獎金欸那我覺得像這樣的"},{"start":402.176,"end":426.213,"text":"我覺得身為公眾人物或是身為藝人這是覺得岂其不可違但是我相信部長因為你講得很清楚啦這個不是國防部的業務那沒有問題我也會來跟文化部長來做詢答那麼第二個當然我們要扭轉喔這個有關於當兵的負面印象國防部這一針對你們所提出來的報告就是我們現在在國軍招募已經有成了但是還是有一些努力的空間喔那麼國防部目前呢在"},{"start":429.695,"end":442.689,"text":"到9月30號為止流行率是有到86.7%那麼比以往要來的高那麼在9月30號已經招募了13000多人那麼也達到了目標的89%那麼在這個部分喔"},{"start":445.631,"end":462.296,"text":"為什麼我會用這個有關於閃兵的這個部分來做開頭就是我相信我們在有關於提升不論是自願役或是義務役的薪資的部分還有在整個設備的部分其實都有做努力那麼部長這邊或是國防部這裡認為還有沒有什麼可以加強的部分我想我們主要就是說讓這個整個"},{"start":472.116,"end":488.164,"text":"著重於這個戰備演訓的這個這個核心任務這一塊然後讓他們覺得當兵是具有一個榮譽感然後而且我們對相關的管理要"},{"start":489.249,"end":513.72,"text":"我一直提的這個檢法思維的這樣的一個管理的作為然後另外呢我想對於冠病的實質照顧我們也要來提升那相關這些應該如果有有不適應的這個現象的話我們也要從事一個相關的輔導讓他能夠有一個能夠持續的願意為國來來服務這樣"},{"start":516.84,"end":530.344,"text":"好 所以其實不只是物質上 薪資上在心理上其實部長剛剛也特別提到了所以本席要來請問一下就是我稍微看了一下115年度的預算就是114年度在三讀之後 政戰局是388萬軍醫局是1360萬一共是總計是1748萬但是我們115年度全部就都編在政戰局裡面就是有關於"},{"start":545.649,"end":552.311,"text":"國軍的心理健康照顧的這個部分其實從問卷上面來看都很滿意啊這個同意繼續維持或者是覺得對於官兵在身心上面的照顧的都是同意加上渴的加起來都高達99%大家幾乎都覺得不錯可是為什麼這個預算反而少了300萬可以理解可不可以講一下"},{"start":572.876,"end":597.375,"text":"在野黨的委員 或者是我們這些立法委員都還沒有砍預算你們就自己把預算往下降原因在哪裡 如果大家都覺得很滿意委員好 我是政政局長跟你報告 因為這個心理衛生 心理健康的這個照護方案是從今年的2月13號開始實行也就是說它今年是第一次辦所以我們在預估它所需的人數上面我們是依照衛福部的這個年輕族群的一個覆蓋比的一個算法"},{"start":602.219,"end":613.971,"text":"那當然我們在宣傳上面我們還要持續在努力我們是依照今年去使用的人數去推估明年可以去運用這項方案 善用這項資源的人數所以這個方案我們會持續在這個準決預算就是精準去使用這項預算的一個考量之下那我們未來會持續努力的去推廣這項的服務"},{"start":625.683,"end":629.826,"text":"局長您的言下之意是您認為使用的人數會變少嗎不然預算減少只有兩個原因一個大概就是費用變便便宜但是我認為像這樣的費用一定是有它的這個就是一定的標準在那裡嘛"},{"start":642.014,"end":664.383,"text":"那一定就是人變少那麼您認為人變少是因為使用的人會變少大家心裡都變健康了嗎我想局長的意思應該是說我們今年的2月13號到9月30號我們依照這個使用的人數來推估明年然後來核實來編列所以你們就是已經很核實編列了已經滯降300萬"},{"start":666.785,"end":670.087,"text":"這個部分可能要 我覺得是很關心你們 因為我認為喔 這個心理輔導的 過去大概都說Paul 是輔導長或是說做一些身心上面的調節這是我 我沒有當過兵啦 我是在這個軍教電影裡面看到好 那現在我們有專業的心理師 在做協助的時候那我其實比較好奇的是 這樣的算法是什麼"},{"start":687.278,"end":689.379,"text":"那如果說你們是真的已經核實編列編的很扎實了那在這裡你們要大聲講出來希望這個委員們不要再來砍這個預算因為我真的認為這樣的預算非常重要"},{"start":699.105,"end":715.236,"text":"謝謝委員我也非常感謝所有委員對於我們官兵心理健康的關切跟照顧那麼我們確實是依照今年預算編列後面評估他可能會會有一些餘裕的情況因為我們今年大概使用了4200多人次那我想"},{"start":717.838,"end":731.769,"text":"這樣子的一個宣傳的力度我們會持續的強化那預估到明年可能會使用的我們已經先把這個預算先做一個核實的精算了那麼未來會跟著他使用人數的狀況我們再去做調節"},{"start":732.749,"end":760.353,"text":"所以其實局長講得很清楚啦就是其實一年每一次每一個人是補助一千六然後一年其實可以有六次但是因為知道的人不多所以會使用不多所以有宣傳上面的問題但是當然我不希望說是因為也有認為說因為使用的人太多可能不太好但是我認為這兩者之間希望不是有正相關而是真的我們的國軍弟兄都是因為身心健康使用率不高是這樣子"},{"start":761.346,"end":776.197,"text":"我想我們不會說他使用過多我想我們應該多多來宣導讓這個每個人都認為有需要這樣子的一個協助的時候他都能夠得到這個經費的挹注好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":428,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（11時20分）謝謝主席，主席有請顧部長。"],["主席：請顧部長。"],["顧部長立雄：是，林委員。"],["林委員楚茵：部長早安。我要提的是現在全民跟國防部比較關心的，防範閃兵的議題。我們知道，最近如果你有留意到這些社群平臺，當中就有提到，身為公眾人物，尤其是藝人，大概就是照他的社會形象來讓粉絲買單。一個藝人紅不紅？當然我覺得我們作為政治人物，這個部分我們沒有辦法去做太多的評論。但是相較於鄰近的韓國，韓國男性藝人只要不當兵或者找到理由不當兵被社會發現的話，就根本不要在娛樂圈混了。我覺得這當然也是國情有點不一樣，現在這些藝人到底是用了什麼樣的方式能夠不服兵役？這個部分檢調單位以及內政部也都說了，要把這些相關的規範再來做檢討。但是身為兵役的主管機關，我想要請部長先看一下一個影片，因為這個影片我自己看了覺得在人情世故上面，臺灣也許真的很多藝人朋友應該也要看一下這個影片，我來放一下。","（播放影片）"],["林委員楚茵：這個是韓國藝人玄彬，他在退役的時候辦了一個活動，粉絲在營區當中迎接他，他為了感謝粉絲等了他3年，甚至直接在營區外面對粉絲行韓國所稱的大禮。我真覺得，身為國防委員，臺灣的這些藝人朋友們真的要看一看，如果你去當兵，而且為國家做奉獻，我相信以你對國家做出奉獻的這種榮譽感，粉絲不會離開你，而且粉絲會真的覺得你要對國家有所付出。","部長，我的前情提要講得比較久，現在被揭露的閃兵名單當中，甚至還有人是拿到所謂的「三金」，就是金鐘、金馬、金曲，有被提名的，甚至有得獎的。我要強調的是，如果現在他被發現是用各種不法手段逃避了兵役，結果我們國家的文化部還給他「三金」的獎勵，這不是很諷刺嗎？部長，我當然知道這是文化部的事，但是身為主管機關，部長有沒有可能跟文化部商量？對於這些身為公眾人物，尤其是藝人，就是靠形象賺取社會上面或者是粉絲上面給他們支持的時候，像這樣的獎項，是不是應該要拿回來？至少我們覺得他不足以拿到這樣的榮譽，是吧？部長，你怎麼看？"],["顧部長立雄：藝人意圖以這些不法手段逃避兵役，將由內政部依法移送檢調偵辦，我們認為以這樣的不法方式規避兵役義務的話，當然我們都是期期以為不可。"],["林委員楚茵：對。"],["顧部長立雄：國防部的態度當然是希望大家都要盡應盡的義務，不要有妨害兵役這樣子的行為。"],["林委員楚茵：說起來，我認為藝人一定會有示範作用，從一開始這個事件爆發，由王大陸開始一直到現在，以幾個被約談的藝人來講，我覺得這會有示範的作用，這樣的示範作用當然是錯誤的示範或是不良的示範。我會特別提起這個部分的原因是，除了他應該要面對的法律責任之外，我是不是可以請部長跟文化部做跨部會的商量，甚至要提出這樣的一個建議？這是本席的建議，但是我認為這個必須要有一些作法，否則對這些藝人來講，他可能說我就出來道個歉，反正也過了這麼多年了。但是這種榮譽國家不應該給，雖然各個部會之間是平行的，總不能做了部長期期以為不可的事情，文化部所主辦的三金，金鐘、金馬、金曲還頒獎給他。雖然是已經拿到的獎項，能不能要求他拿回來？我覺得這個部分是不是可以考慮？"],["顧部長立雄：我想國防部的立場對這樣的行為要予以譴責，但是有關他得獎的這部分，我想我們還是要尊重文化部的權責。"],["林委員楚茵：好，沒有關係。同樣的題目我也會問文化部。但是部長，這樣的作法就是一個不良示範，如果國家還給予其他獎項的肯定，這不等於是打臉國防部嗎？而且不也是打臉其他盡服兵役義務的人嗎？一方面他可以用盡各種方法，不履行國民的義務，但是一方面他不只是拿獎耶！還可以拿獎金，身為公眾人物，或者身為藝人，我期期以為不可。但是我相信部長，因為你講得很清楚，這個不是國防部的業務，那沒有問題，我也會跟文化部長做詢答。","第二個，當然我們要扭轉有關於當兵的負面印象，針對國防部所提出來的報告，你們現在在國軍招募已經有成了，但還是有些努力的空間。國防部到9月30日為止，留營率有到86.7%，比以往要來得高，在9月30日已經招募了一萬三千多人，也達到了目標的89%，針對這個部分，為什麼我會用有關於閃兵的部分來做開頭？我相信我們在有關於提升，不論是自願役或是義務役薪資的部分，還有在整個設備的部分，其實都有做努力。部長這裡或是國防部認為還有沒有什麼可以加強的部分？"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們主要是在整個著重於戰備演訓的核心任務這一塊，讓他們覺得當兵具有榮譽感，而且對於相關的管理，我一直在提減法思維的管理作為。另外，對於官兵的實質照顧，我們也會來提升，如果有不適應的現象，我們也會從事相關的輔導，讓他能夠持續願意為國家來服務。"],["林委員楚茵：好。所以不只是物質上、薪資上，心理上其實部長剛剛也特別提到了。本席要請問一下，我稍微看了一下115年度的預算，在114年度預算三讀之後，政戰局是388萬、軍醫局1,360萬，總計是1,748萬，但是你們115年度全部都編在政戰局裡，有關於國軍心理健康照顧的部分，其實從問卷上面來看，都很滿意啊！同意繼續維持或者是覺得對於官兵在身心上面的照顧都是同意，加尚可的加起來都高達99%，大家幾乎都覺得不錯，可是為什麼這個預算反而少了300萬？可不可以講一下？在野黨的委員，或者是我們這些立法委員都還沒有砍預算，你們就自己把預算往下降，原因在哪裡？如果大家都覺得很滿意。"],["史局長順文：委員好。我是政戰局長，跟你報告，因為心理健康的照護方案是從今年2月13日開始試行，也就是它今年是第一次辦，所以我們在預估它所需的人數上面，我們是依照衛福部的年輕族群覆蓋比的算法，當然我們在宣傳上面，還要持續再努力，我們是依照今年使用的人數去推估明年可以運用這項方案及善用這項資源的人數，所以這個方案在撙節預算，以精準使用這項預算的考量之下，我們未來會持續努力地去推廣這項服務。"],["林委員楚茵：局長您的言下之意是您認為使用的人數會變少嗎？不然預算減少只有兩個原因，一個大概是費用變便宜，但是我認為像這樣的費用，一定是有它的標準在那裡嘛！另一個一定是人變少，您認為人變少是因為使用的人會變少，大家心理都變健康了嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：我想局長的意思應該是我們依照今年2月13日到9月30日的使用人數來推估明年預算並核實編列。"],["林委員楚茵：所以你們已經很核實編列了，已經自降300萬。"],["顧部長立雄：這個部分可能要……"],["林委員楚茵：委員是很關心你們，因為我認為這心理輔導的……過去大家都說「po-a」是輔導長嘛！或是做一些身心上面的調節，我沒有當過兵，我是在軍教電影裡看到，現在我們有專業的心理師，在做協助的時候，我其實比較好奇的是這樣的算法是什麼？如果你們真的已經核實編列，編得很扎實了，在這裡你們要大聲講出來，希望委員們不要再砍這筆預算，因為我真的認為這樣的預算非常重要。"],["史局長順文：謝謝委員。我也非常感謝所有委員對於我們官兵心理健康的關切跟照顧，我們確實是依照今年預算編列後面評估它可能會有一些餘裕的情況，因為我們今年大概使用了四千兩百多人次，我想這樣的宣傳力度，我們會持續的強化，預估到明年可能會使用的，我們已經先把這預算做核實的精算了，未來會跟著使用人數的狀況，再去做調節。"],["林委員楚茵：好。所以局長講得很清楚啦！就是一年每一次每一個人是補助1,600元，一年其實可以有6次，因為知道的人不多，造成會使用的不多，所以有宣傳上面的問題。當然我不希望也有認為說因為使用的人太多，可能不太好，但是我認為這兩者之間希望不是有正相關，而是真的是因為我們的國軍弟兄都是身心健康，所以使用率不高。"],["顧部長立雄：我想我們不會說他使用過多，我們應該多多來宣導，讓每個人都認為有需要這樣協助的時候，他都能夠得到經費的挹注。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-8","speakers":["馬文君","王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","黃仁","沈伯洋","林楚茵","徐巧芯","賴士葆","林德福","王鴻薇","陳冠廷","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","林憶君"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148801_00004"}}}