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00:00:30,712\n好部長辛苦了我想請教就是有關來源的部分那現在很多都指向廚餘但是我也有看到我們的獸醫專家有講說因為現在我們國內的豬肉價格很高所以不排除有走私豬肉進口\n\n3\n00:00:40,916 --> 00:00:58,049\n那這裡面呢提到就說有可能有從中國或者是越南走私豬肉那因為呢它的地點無錫港有地緣上的關係那麼而且呢在這一次的就是有關於它的病毒豬病毒豬\n\n4\n00:01:00,211 --> 00:01:10,362\n那麼也有這個專家提到說他的一個排序跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似所以我想請教部長還有我們的關務署因為\n\n5\n00:01:15,487 --> 00:01:41,724\n我們這麼多年來我們守住了所以這一定從境外來的嗎那所以我想請問一下除了廚餘的感染之外有沒有可能在我們的現在的追查裡面來自於境外有沒有可能是來自於走私豬肉那至於他講說他的排序是跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似我想請問是不是有這樣的訊息\n\n6\n00:01:42,585 --> 00:02:05,000\n我先跟委員說明就是所有的來源我們一定要經過完整的疫調才能夠才能夠確認不過非洲豬瘟的導入一定是從境外的他有可能是國外的這些含有豬肉製品進到這個我都了解然後有可能人員的部分也有可能走私的部分他有不同可能的原因所以我們不排除是有境外走私豬肉\n\n7\n00:02:06,241 --> 00:02:24,297\n我覺得都有可能所以我們疫調的時候會去了解好那我現在提到就是有這個獸醫專家提到無錫港有沒有可能因為你們有港口的關係然後就是因為這個都是我們境外把關我們有沒有去討論或研究到可能有這樣的一個路徑\n\n8\n00:02:25,238 --> 00:02:41,549\n我想我們在中央應變中心針對境外防堵的部分境外的走私就是一個非常重要的一個工作是由海委會這邊來負責的然後光務的部分是針對行李的部分所以不同部會有相關的一個部分我知道像剛才大家特別提到就廚餘的部分那麼可能它還有些後續的問題但是要提醒不要排除走私豬肉也就是我們境外管理出現了一個漏洞\n\n9\n00:02:53,416 --> 00:03:08,641\n而使得這個非洲豬瘟長驅直入直接到了這個台灣讓我們出現了這樣的一個首次的案例另外呢剛才在提到說10月14號現在很多在追究10月14號為什麼沒有採檢\n\n10\n00:03:11,222 --> 00:03:19,988\n但是現在我發現我們的次長杜汶珍次長也提到說這個在經過獸醫的這個檢查的時候也承認這是一個非典型的病態這是一個非典型病態因為它沒有出現傳統我們所知道非洲豬瘟會出現的什麼流鼻血啦或者耳朵瘀青等等的症狀\n\n11\n00:03:36,619 --> 00:03:52,512\n所以對於這種非典型的病態是不是在這一次確實存在然後未來我們要怎麼樣的去預防因為我們接下來我們也怕再有類似這樣的狀況然後我們沒有辦法防堵到\n\n12\n00:03:53,733 --> 00:04:12,533\n謝謝在我們那個主委回答之前我們今天會議中午不休息一直到我們議程結束謝謝請說回答我想第一個說明就是我們杜市長所回應的不是說我們農業部因為現在外面都說我們農業部說沒辦法去分辨這個是從台東市政府動保處那邊所說到的\n\n13\n00:04:12,853 --> 00:04:24,787\n那的確非洲豬瘟跟現在的部分的這些那叫做肺腺桿菌的肺膜炎它的病徵是很類似的部分確實很類似所以它是一個非典型的部分所以確實獸醫沒有辦法沒有辦法分辨出他沒有辦法立刻診斷出這個是\n\n14\n00:04:31,454 --> 00:04:56,070\n疑似非洲豬瘟但是有一個重要的就是我們會去監控後面的死亡的異常如果有異常的時候其實就應該更有警惕的部分所以這也是我們在做疫調的主要的調查原因因為它後面的話是它有連續的五天的部分都是異常死亡的部分那異常死亡就不能當作一般的非典型的部分去處理它必須去做一些比較強勢的處理\n\n15\n00:04:57,211 --> 00:05:17,942\n那到底是市主拒絕還是凍飽處的人員沒有去做那這個都是在疫調的過程中現在市主能夠拒絕嗎市主能拒絕嗎他不能拒絕如果說凍飽處要強勢去採檢的話市主是不能拒絕的所以我們現在法律上是市主不能拒絕的嗎是\n\n16\n00:05:19,540 --> 00:05:44,918\n完全是不能拒絕的嗎因為你今天受醫所他所調查出來拒絕的話他會罰款所以我們現在是說你的意思是說地方政府是可以用罰款的方式是嗎但是我覺得像這種遇到這種類似的因為受醫師也應該知道這些非典型的症狀非洲豬瘟跟哪一些非典型的症狀的疾病是一樣的如果他有\n\n17\n00:05:45,638 --> 00:06:10,109\n但是他如果說一隻兩隻那還好他如果異常死亡而且連續的異常死亡的時候就應該那我最後問一句我不要佔用大家時間目前我們還有我們除了這個養豬場之外在其他的養豬場目前有沒有出現也有異常死亡的我們到目前為止到目前為止的關聯場他的並沒有異常死亡的現象\n\n18\n00:06:10,509 --> 00:06:19,705\n到目前為止現在就是目前是鎖定在就是這個養豬場沒有我們鎖定在這個養豬場還有它周遭三公里的還有它的化製車走經過的這些關聯場\n\n19\n00:06:22,931 --> 00:06:50,073\n除了這個關聯廠之外我想全台灣的豬農都非常緊張目前在通報上有沒有這個目前類似別說大量死亡的沒有但是我還是希望這個對這些非典型的病態因為我覺得這個因為第一線這是我們第一次嘛大家可能經驗不足會經驗不足的問題所以在非典型病態的部分是不是應該要有一些精進的方案的提出\n\n20\n00:06:50,213 --> 00:07:17,704\n我想透過這次疫調一定有更多的可以精進的作為那所有的所有的這些防疫人員都非常辛苦的那但是他相關的有一些判斷上面來講也沒有辦法很及時但是我想我們會針對這一次的疫調過程中會設計出一個新的機制讓我們的一個新的SOP好不好讓所有第一線的人員能夠更快的因為我們是以\n\n21\n00:07:18,925 --> 00:07:23,798\n維護台灣的產業為主這個我想我們大家一起努力中央地方要一起努力好了解謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6612\t14180\t好谢谢主席我请陈部长还有我们关务署关务署署长\n18288\t30712\t好部長辛苦了我想請教就是有關來源的部分那現在很多都指向廚餘但是我也有看到我們的獸醫專家有講說因為現在我們國內的豬肉價格很高所以不排除有走私豬肉進口\n40916\t58049\t那這裡面呢提到就說有可能有從中國或者是越南走私豬肉那因為呢它的地點無錫港有地緣上的關係那麼而且呢在這一次的就是有關於它的病毒豬病毒豬\n60211\t70362\t那麼也有這個專家提到說他的一個排序跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似所以我想請教部長還有我們的關務署因為\n75487\t101724\t我們這麼多年來我們守住了所以這一定從境外來的嗎那所以我想請問一下除了廚餘的感染之外有沒有可能在我們的現在的追查裡面來自於境外有沒有可能是來自於走私豬肉那至於他講說他的排序是跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似我想請問是不是有這樣的訊息\n102585\t125000\t我先跟委員說明就是所有的來源我們一定要經過完整的疫調才能夠才能夠確認不過非洲豬瘟的導入一定是從境外的他有可能是國外的這些含有豬肉製品進到這個我都了解然後有可能人員的部分也有可能走私的部分他有不同可能的原因所以我們不排除是有境外走私豬肉\n126241\t144297\t我覺得都有可能所以我們疫調的時候會去了解好 那我現在提到就是有這個獸醫專家提到無錫港有沒有可能因為你們有港口的關係然後就是因為這個都是我們境外把關我們有沒有去討論或研究到可能有這樣的一個路徑\n145238\t161549\t我想我們在中央應變中心針對境外防堵的部分境外的走私就是一個非常重要的一個工作是由海委會這邊來負責的然後光務的部分是針對行李的部分所以不同部會有相關的一個部分我知道像剛才大家特別提到就廚餘的部分那麼可能它還有些後續的問題但是要提醒不要排除走私豬肉也就是我們境外管理出現了一個漏洞\n173416\t188641\t而使得這個非洲豬瘟長驅直入直接到了這個台灣讓我們出現了這樣的一個首次的案例另外呢剛才在提到說10月14號現在很多在追究10月14號為什麼沒有採檢\n191222\t199988\t但是現在我發現我們的次長杜汶珍次長也提到說這個在經過獸醫的這個檢查的時候也承認這是一個非典型的病態這是一個非典型病態因為它沒有出現傳統我們所知道非洲豬瘟會出現的什麼流鼻血啦或者耳朵瘀青等等的症狀\n216619\t232512\t所以對於這種非典型的病態是不是在這一次確實存在然後未來我們要怎麼樣的去預防因為我們接下來我們也怕再有類似這樣的狀況然後我們沒有辦法防堵到\n233733\t252533\t謝謝 在我們那個主委回答之前我們今天會議中午不休息一直到我們議程結束謝謝 請說回答我想第一個說明就是我們杜市長所回應的不是說我們農業部因為現在外面都說我們農業部說沒辦法去分辨這個是從台東市政府動保處那邊所說到的\n252853\t264787\t那的確非洲豬瘟跟現在的部分的這些那叫做肺腺桿菌的肺膜炎它的病徵是很類似的部分確實很類似所以它是一個非典型的部分所以確實獸醫沒有辦法沒有辦法分辨出他沒有辦法立刻診斷出這個是\n271454\t296070\t疑似非洲豬瘟但是有一個重要的就是我們會去監控後面的死亡的異常如果有異常的時候其實就應該更有警惕的部分所以這也是我們在做疫調的主要的調查原因因為它後面的話是它有連續的五天的部分都是異常死亡的部分那異常死亡就不能當作一般的非典型的部分去處理它必須去做一些比較強勢的處理\n297211\t317942\t那到底是市主拒絕還是凍飽處的人員沒有去做那這個都是在疫調的過程中現在市主能夠拒絕嗎市主能拒絕嗎他不能拒絕如果說凍飽處要強勢去採檢的話市主是不能拒絕的所以我們現在法律上是市主不能拒絕的嗎是\n319540\t344918\t完全是不能拒絕的嗎 因為你今天受醫所 他所調查出來拒絕的話他會罰款所以我們現在是說 你的意思是說地方政府是可以用罰款的方式 是嗎但是我覺得像這種 遇到這種類似的因為受醫師也應該知道這些非典型的症狀非洲豬瘟跟哪一些非典型的症狀的疾病是一樣的 如果他有\n345638\t370109\t但是他如果說一隻兩隻那還好他如果異常死亡而且連續的異常死亡的時候就應該那我最後問一句我不要佔用大家時間目前我們還有我們除了這個養豬場之外在其他的養豬場目前有沒有出現也有異常死亡的我們到目前為止到目前為止的關聯場他的並沒有異常死亡的現象\n370509\t379705\t到目前為止現在就是目前是鎖定在就是這個養豬場沒有 我們鎖定在這個養豬場還有它周遭三公里的還有它的化製車走經過的這些關聯場\n382931\t410073\t除了這個關聯廠之外我想全台灣的豬農都非常緊張目前在通報上有沒有這個目前類似別說大量死亡的沒有但是我還是希望這個對這些非典型的病態因為我覺得這個因為第一線這是我們第一次嘛大家可能經驗不足會經驗不足的問題所以在非典型病態的部分是不是應該要有一些精進的方案的提出\n410213\t437704\t我想透過這次疫調一定有更多的可以精進的作為那所有的所有的這些防疫人員都非常辛苦的那但是他相關的有一些判斷上面來講也沒有辦法很及時但是我想我們會針對這一次的疫調過程中會設計出一個新的機制讓我們的一個新的SOP好不好讓所有第一線的人員能夠更快的因為我們是以\n438925\t443798\t維護台灣的產業為主這個我想我們大家一起努力中央地方要一起努力好 了解 謝謝\n","txt":"好谢谢主席我请陈部长还有我们关务署关务署署长\n好部長辛苦了我想請教就是有關來源的部分那現在很多都指向廚餘但是我也有看到我們的獸醫專家有講說因為現在我們國內的豬肉價格很高所以不排除有走私豬肉進口\n那這裡面呢提到就說有可能有從中國或者是越南走私豬肉那因為呢它的地點無錫港有地緣上的關係那麼而且呢在這一次的就是有關於它的病毒豬病毒豬\n那麼也有這個專家提到說他的一個排序跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似所以我想請教部長還有我們的關務署因為\n我們這麼多年來我們守住了所以這一定從境外來的嗎那所以我想請問一下除了廚餘的感染之外有沒有可能在我們的現在的追查裡面來自於境外有沒有可能是來自於走私豬肉那至於他講說他的排序是跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似我想請問是不是有這樣的訊息\n我先跟委員說明就是所有的來源我們一定要經過完整的疫調才能夠才能夠確認不過非洲豬瘟的導入一定是從境外的他有可能是國外的這些含有豬肉製品進到這個我都了解然後有可能人員的部分也有可能走私的部分他有不同可能的原因所以我們不排除是有境外走私豬肉\n我覺得都有可能所以我們疫調的時候會去了解好 那我現在提到就是有這個獸醫專家提到無錫港有沒有可能因為你們有港口的關係然後就是因為這個都是我們境外把關我們有沒有去討論或研究到可能有這樣的一個路徑\n我想我們在中央應變中心針對境外防堵的部分境外的走私就是一個非常重要的一個工作是由海委會這邊來負責的然後光務的部分是針對行李的部分所以不同部會有相關的一個部分我知道像剛才大家特別提到就廚餘的部分那麼可能它還有些後續的問題但是要提醒不要排除走私豬肉也就是我們境外管理出現了一個漏洞\n而使得這個非洲豬瘟長驅直入直接到了這個台灣讓我們出現了這樣的一個首次的案例另外呢剛才在提到說10月14號現在很多在追究10月14號為什麼沒有採檢\n但是現在我發現我們的次長杜汶珍次長也提到說這個在經過獸醫的這個檢查的時候也承認這是一個非典型的病態這是一個非典型病態因為它沒有出現傳統我們所知道非洲豬瘟會出現的什麼流鼻血啦或者耳朵瘀青等等的症狀\n所以對於這種非典型的病態是不是在這一次確實存在然後未來我們要怎麼樣的去預防因為我們接下來我們也怕再有類似這樣的狀況然後我們沒有辦法防堵到\n謝謝 在我們那個主委回答之前我們今天會議中午不休息一直到我們議程結束謝謝 請說回答我想第一個說明就是我們杜市長所回應的不是說我們農業部因為現在外面都說我們農業部說沒辦法去分辨這個是從台東市政府動保處那邊所說到的\n那的確非洲豬瘟跟現在的部分的這些那叫做肺腺桿菌的肺膜炎它的病徵是很類似的部分確實很類似所以它是一個非典型的部分所以確實獸醫沒有辦法沒有辦法分辨出他沒有辦法立刻診斷出這個是\n疑似非洲豬瘟但是有一個重要的就是我們會去監控後面的死亡的異常如果有異常的時候其實就應該更有警惕的部分所以這也是我們在做疫調的主要的調查原因因為它後面的話是它有連續的五天的部分都是異常死亡的部分那異常死亡就不能當作一般的非典型的部分去處理它必須去做一些比較強勢的處理\n那到底是市主拒絕還是凍飽處的人員沒有去做那這個都是在疫調的過程中現在市主能夠拒絕嗎市主能拒絕嗎他不能拒絕如果說凍飽處要強勢去採檢的話市主是不能拒絕的所以我們現在法律上是市主不能拒絕的嗎是\n完全是不能拒絕的嗎 因為你今天受醫所 他所調查出來拒絕的話他會罰款所以我們現在是說 你的意思是說地方政府是可以用罰款的方式 是嗎但是我覺得像這種 遇到這種類似的因為受醫師也應該知道這些非典型的症狀非洲豬瘟跟哪一些非典型的症狀的疾病是一樣的 如果他有\n但是他如果說一隻兩隻那還好他如果異常死亡而且連續的異常死亡的時候就應該那我最後問一句我不要佔用大家時間目前我們還有我們除了這個養豬場之外在其他的養豬場目前有沒有出現也有異常死亡的我們到目前為止到目前為止的關聯場他的並沒有異常死亡的現象\n到目前為止現在就是目前是鎖定在就是這個養豬場沒有 我們鎖定在這個養豬場還有它周遭三公里的還有它的化製車走經過的這些關聯場\n除了這個關聯廠之外我想全台灣的豬農都非常緊張目前在通報上有沒有這個目前類似別說大量死亡的沒有但是我還是希望這個對這些非典型的病態因為我覺得這個因為第一線這是我們第一次嘛大家可能經驗不足會經驗不足的問題所以在非典型病態的部分是不是應該要有一些精進的方案的提出\n我想透過這次疫調一定有更多的可以精進的作為那所有的所有的這些防疫人員都非常辛苦的那但是他相關的有一些判斷上面來講也沒有辦法很及時但是我想我們會針對這一次的疫調過程中會設計出一個新的機制讓我們的一個新的SOP好不好讓所有第一線的人員能夠更快的因為我們是以\n維護台灣的產業為主這個我想我們大家一起努力中央地方要一起努力好 了解 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.612 --> 00:14.180\n好谢谢主席我请陈部长还有我们关务署关务署署长\n\n00:18.288 --> 00:30.712\n好部長辛苦了我想請教就是有關來源的部分那現在很多都指向廚餘但是我也有看到我們的獸醫專家有講說因為現在我們國內的豬肉價格很高所以不排除有走私豬肉進口\n\n00:40.916 --> 00:58.049\n那這裡面呢提到就說有可能有從中國或者是越南走私豬肉那因為呢它的地點無錫港有地緣上的關係那麼而且呢在這一次的就是有關於它的病毒豬病毒豬\n\n01:00.211 --> 01:10.362\n那麼也有這個專家提到說他的一個排序跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似所以我想請教部長還有我們的關務署因為\n\n01:15.487 --> 01:41.724\n我們這麼多年來我們守住了所以這一定從境外來的嗎那所以我想請問一下除了廚餘的感染之外有沒有可能在我們的現在的追查裡面來自於境外有沒有可能是來自於走私豬肉那至於他講說他的排序是跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似我想請問是不是有這樣的訊息\n\n01:42.585 --> 02:05.000\n我先跟委員說明就是所有的來源我們一定要經過完整的疫調才能夠才能夠確認不過非洲豬瘟的導入一定是從境外的他有可能是國外的這些含有豬肉製品進到這個我都了解然後有可能人員的部分也有可能走私的部分他有不同可能的原因所以我們不排除是有境外走私豬肉\n\n02:06.241 --> 02:24.297\n我覺得都有可能所以我們疫調的時候會去了解好那我現在提到就是有這個獸醫專家提到無錫港有沒有可能因為你們有港口的關係然後就是因為這個都是我們境外把關我們有沒有去討論或研究到可能有這樣的一個路徑\n\n02:25.238 --> 02:41.549\n我想我們在中央應變中心針對境外防堵的部分境外的走私就是一個非常重要的一個工作是由海委會這邊來負責的然後光務的部分是針對行李的部分所以不同部會有相關的一個部分我知道像剛才大家特別提到就廚餘的部分那麼可能它還有些後續的問題但是要提醒不要排除走私豬肉也就是我們境外管理出現了一個漏洞\n\n02:53.416 --> 03:08.641\n而使得這個非洲豬瘟長驅直入直接到了這個台灣讓我們出現了這樣的一個首次的案例另外呢剛才在提到說10月14號現在很多在追究10月14號為什麼沒有採檢\n\n03:11.222 --> 03:19.988\n但是現在我發現我們的次長杜汶珍次長也提到說這個在經過獸醫的這個檢查的時候也承認這是一個非典型的病態這是一個非典型病態因為它沒有出現傳統我們所知道非洲豬瘟會出現的什麼流鼻血啦或者耳朵瘀青等等的症狀\n\n03:36.619 --> 03:52.512\n所以對於這種非典型的病態是不是在這一次確實存在然後未來我們要怎麼樣的去預防因為我們接下來我們也怕再有類似這樣的狀況然後我們沒有辦法防堵到\n\n03:53.733 --> 04:12.533\n謝謝在我們那個主委回答之前我們今天會議中午不休息一直到我們議程結束謝謝請說回答我想第一個說明就是我們杜市長所回應的不是說我們農業部因為現在外面都說我們農業部說沒辦法去分辨這個是從台東市政府動保處那邊所說到的\n\n04:12.853 --> 04:24.787\n那的確非洲豬瘟跟現在的部分的這些那叫做肺腺桿菌的肺膜炎它的病徵是很類似的部分確實很類似所以它是一個非典型的部分所以確實獸醫沒有辦法沒有辦法分辨出他沒有辦法立刻診斷出這個是\n\n04:31.454 --> 04:56.070\n疑似非洲豬瘟但是有一個重要的就是我們會去監控後面的死亡的異常如果有異常的時候其實就應該更有警惕的部分所以這也是我們在做疫調的主要的調查原因因為它後面的話是它有連續的五天的部分都是異常死亡的部分那異常死亡就不能當作一般的非典型的部分去處理它必須去做一些比較強勢的處理\n\n04:57.211 --> 05:17.942\n那到底是市主拒絕還是凍飽處的人員沒有去做那這個都是在疫調的過程中現在市主能夠拒絕嗎市主能拒絕嗎他不能拒絕如果說凍飽處要強勢去採檢的話市主是不能拒絕的所以我們現在法律上是市主不能拒絕的嗎是\n\n05:19.540 --> 05:44.918\n完全是不能拒絕的嗎因為你今天受醫所他所調查出來拒絕的話他會罰款所以我們現在是說你的意思是說地方政府是可以用罰款的方式是嗎但是我覺得像這種遇到這種類似的因為受醫師也應該知道這些非典型的症狀非洲豬瘟跟哪一些非典型的症狀的疾病是一樣的如果他有\n\n05:45.638 --> 06:10.109\n但是他如果說一隻兩隻那還好他如果異常死亡而且連續的異常死亡的時候就應該那我最後問一句我不要佔用大家時間目前我們還有我們除了這個養豬場之外在其他的養豬場目前有沒有出現也有異常死亡的我們到目前為止到目前為止的關聯場他的並沒有異常死亡的現象\n\n06:10.509 --> 06:19.705\n到目前為止現在就是目前是鎖定在就是這個養豬場沒有我們鎖定在這個養豬場還有它周遭三公里的還有它的化製車走經過的這些關聯場\n\n06:22.931 --> 06:50.073\n除了這個關聯廠之外我想全台灣的豬農都非常緊張目前在通報上有沒有這個目前類似別說大量死亡的沒有但是我還是希望這個對這些非典型的病態因為我覺得這個因為第一線這是我們第一次嘛大家可能經驗不足會經驗不足的問題所以在非典型病態的部分是不是應該要有一些精進的方案的提出\n\n06:50.213 --> 07:17.704\n我想透過這次疫調一定有更多的可以精進的作為那所有的所有的這些防疫人員都非常辛苦的那但是他相關的有一些判斷上面來講也沒有辦法很及時但是我想我們會針對這一次的疫調過程中會設計出一個新的機制讓我們的一個新的SOP好不好讓所有第一線的人員能夠更快的因為我們是以\n\n07:18.925 --> 07:23.798\n維護台灣的產業為主這個我想我們大家一起努力中央地方要一起努力好了解謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.612,"end":14.18,"text":"好谢谢主席我请陈部长还有我们关务署关务署署长"},{"start":18.288,"end":30.712,"text":"好部長辛苦了我想請教就是有關來源的部分那現在很多都指向廚餘但是我也有看到我們的獸醫專家有講說因為現在我們國內的豬肉價格很高所以不排除有走私豬肉進口"},{"start":40.916,"end":58.049,"text":"那這裡面呢提到就說有可能有從中國或者是越南走私豬肉那因為呢它的地點無錫港有地緣上的關係那麼而且呢在這一次的就是有關於它的病毒豬病毒豬"},{"start":60.211,"end":70.362,"text":"那麼也有這個專家提到說他的一個排序跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似所以我想請教部長還有我們的關務署因為"},{"start":75.487,"end":101.724,"text":"我們這麼多年來我們守住了所以這一定從境外來的嗎那所以我想請問一下除了廚餘的感染之外有沒有可能在我們的現在的追查裡面來自於境外有沒有可能是來自於走私豬肉那至於他講說他的排序是跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似我想請問是不是有這樣的訊息"},{"start":102.585,"end":125,"text":"我先跟委員說明就是所有的來源我們一定要經過完整的疫調才能夠才能夠確認不過非洲豬瘟的導入一定是從境外的他有可能是國外的這些含有豬肉製品進到這個我都了解然後有可能人員的部分也有可能走私的部分他有不同可能的原因所以我們不排除是有境外走私豬肉"},{"start":126.241,"end":144.297,"text":"我覺得都有可能所以我們疫調的時候會去了解好 那我現在提到就是有這個獸醫專家提到無錫港有沒有可能因為你們有港口的關係然後就是因為這個都是我們境外把關我們有沒有去討論或研究到可能有這樣的一個路徑"},{"start":145.238,"end":161.549,"text":"我想我們在中央應變中心針對境外防堵的部分境外的走私就是一個非常重要的一個工作是由海委會這邊來負責的然後光務的部分是針對行李的部分所以不同部會有相關的一個部分我知道像剛才大家特別提到就廚餘的部分那麼可能它還有些後續的問題但是要提醒不要排除走私豬肉也就是我們境外管理出現了一個漏洞"},{"start":173.416,"end":188.641,"text":"而使得這個非洲豬瘟長驅直入直接到了這個台灣讓我們出現了這樣的一個首次的案例另外呢剛才在提到說10月14號現在很多在追究10月14號為什麼沒有採檢"},{"start":191.222,"end":199.988,"text":"但是現在我發現我們的次長杜汶珍次長也提到說這個在經過獸醫的這個檢查的時候也承認這是一個非典型的病態這是一個非典型病態因為它沒有出現傳統我們所知道非洲豬瘟會出現的什麼流鼻血啦或者耳朵瘀青等等的症狀"},{"start":216.619,"end":232.512,"text":"所以對於這種非典型的病態是不是在這一次確實存在然後未來我們要怎麼樣的去預防因為我們接下來我們也怕再有類似這樣的狀況然後我們沒有辦法防堵到"},{"start":233.733,"end":252.533,"text":"謝謝 在我們那個主委回答之前我們今天會議中午不休息一直到我們議程結束謝謝 請說回答我想第一個說明就是我們杜市長所回應的不是說我們農業部因為現在外面都說我們農業部說沒辦法去分辨這個是從台東市政府動保處那邊所說到的"},{"start":252.853,"end":264.787,"text":"那的確非洲豬瘟跟現在的部分的這些那叫做肺腺桿菌的肺膜炎它的病徵是很類似的部分確實很類似所以它是一個非典型的部分所以確實獸醫沒有辦法沒有辦法分辨出他沒有辦法立刻診斷出這個是"},{"start":271.454,"end":296.07,"text":"疑似非洲豬瘟但是有一個重要的就是我們會去監控後面的死亡的異常如果有異常的時候其實就應該更有警惕的部分所以這也是我們在做疫調的主要的調查原因因為它後面的話是它有連續的五天的部分都是異常死亡的部分那異常死亡就不能當作一般的非典型的部分去處理它必須去做一些比較強勢的處理"},{"start":297.211,"end":317.942,"text":"那到底是市主拒絕還是凍飽處的人員沒有去做那這個都是在疫調的過程中現在市主能夠拒絕嗎市主能拒絕嗎他不能拒絕如果說凍飽處要強勢去採檢的話市主是不能拒絕的所以我們現在法律上是市主不能拒絕的嗎是"},{"start":319.54,"end":344.918,"text":"完全是不能拒絕的嗎 因為你今天受醫所 他所調查出來拒絕的話他會罰款所以我們現在是說 你的意思是說地方政府是可以用罰款的方式 是嗎但是我覺得像這種 遇到這種類似的因為受醫師也應該知道這些非典型的症狀非洲豬瘟跟哪一些非典型的症狀的疾病是一樣的 如果他有"},{"start":345.638,"end":370.109,"text":"但是他如果說一隻兩隻那還好他如果異常死亡而且連續的異常死亡的時候就應該那我最後問一句我不要佔用大家時間目前我們還有我們除了這個養豬場之外在其他的養豬場目前有沒有出現也有異常死亡的我們到目前為止到目前為止的關聯場他的並沒有異常死亡的現象"},{"start":370.509,"end":379.705,"text":"到目前為止現在就是目前是鎖定在就是這個養豬場沒有 我們鎖定在這個養豬場還有它周遭三公里的還有它的化製車走經過的這些關聯場"},{"start":382.931,"end":410.073,"text":"除了這個關聯廠之外我想全台灣的豬農都非常緊張目前在通報上有沒有這個目前類似別說大量死亡的沒有但是我還是希望這個對這些非典型的病態因為我覺得這個因為第一線這是我們第一次嘛大家可能經驗不足會經驗不足的問題所以在非典型病態的部分是不是應該要有一些精進的方案的提出"},{"start":410.213,"end":437.704,"text":"我想透過這次疫調一定有更多的可以精進的作為那所有的所有的這些防疫人員都非常辛苦的那但是他相關的有一些判斷上面來講也沒有辦法很及時但是我想我們會針對這一次的疫調過程中會設計出一個新的機制讓我們的一個新的SOP好不好讓所有第一線的人員能夠更快的因為我們是以"},{"start":438.925,"end":443.798,"text":"維護台灣的產業為主這個我想我們大家一起努力中央地方要一起努力好 了解 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1022,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（11時56分）謝謝主席。我請陳部長，還有關務署。"],["主席：請陳部長、彭署長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長辛苦了。我想請教，有關於來源的部分，現在很多都指向廚餘，但是我也有看到有獸醫專家提到，因為現在我們國內的豬肉價格很高，所以不排除有走私豬肉進口。這裡面提到有可能有從中國或者是越南走私豬肉，因為它的地點梧棲港有地緣上的關係，而且在這一次有關於它的病毒株，也有專家提到它的排序跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似。所以我想請教部長還有關務署，因為這麼多年來我們守住了，所以這一定從境外來的。我想請問一下，除了廚餘的感染之外，在我們現在的追查裡面，來自於境外部分，有沒有可能是來自於走私豬肉？至於他講它的排序是跟越南的非洲豬瘟類似，我想請問是不是有這樣的訊息？"],["陳部長駿季：我先跟委員說明，所有的來源，我們一定要經過完整的疫調才能夠確認，不過非洲豬瘟的導入，一定是從境外的，它有可能是國外這些含有豬肉製品進到廚餘系統……"],["王委員鴻薇：這些我都了解，大家談了很多。"],["陳部長駿季：然後有可能人員的部分，也有可能走私的部分，它有不同可能的原因。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以我們不排除是有境外走私豬肉而造成的嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得都有可能，所以我們疫調的時候會去了解。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，我現在提到有獸醫專家指出梧棲港，有沒有可能因為是港口的關係？因為這都是攸關我們境外把關，我們有沒有討論或研究到可能有這樣的一個路徑？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們在中央應變中心針對境外防堵的部分，境外的走私就是一個非常重要的工作，是由海委會這邊來負責的，然後關務的部分是針對行李的部分，所以不同部會有相關的分工。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道，像剛才大家特別提到廚餘的部分，可能它還有些後續的問題，但是要提醒的是，不要排除走私豬肉，也就是我們境外管理出現了一個漏洞，使得非洲豬瘟長驅直入，直接到了臺灣，讓我們出現了首次的案例。另外，剛才一直提到10月14日，現在很多在追究10月14日為什麼沒有採檢，但是我發現杜文珍次長也提到，在經過獸醫檢查的時候，也承認這是一個非典型的病態，因為沒有出現我們所知道傳統非洲豬瘟會出現的流鼻血或者耳朵瘀青等等的症狀。所以對於這種非典型的病態，是不是在這次確實存在、未來我們要怎麼樣預防？因為接下來，我們也怕再有類似這樣的狀況，然後我們沒有辦法防堵到。"],["主席：在主委回答之前，先宣告今天會議中午不休息，一直到議程結束，謝謝。","請做回答。"],["陳部長駿季：第一個說明，杜次長所回應的不是我們農業部，因為現在外面都說是我們農業部說沒辦法去分辨，這是從臺中市政府動保處那邊所收到的，的確非洲豬瘟跟現在肺腺桿菌的肺膜炎，它的病徵很類似。"],["王委員鴻薇：確實很類似？"],["陳部長駿季：很類似，所以它是一個非典型的部分，但是它還可以……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以確實獸醫沒有辦法分辨、沒有辦法立刻診斷出這是疑似非洲豬瘟？"],["陳部長駿季：委員，但是有一個重要的，就是我們會去監控後面的死亡異常，如果有異常的時候，其實就應該更警惕，所以這也是我們在做疫調的主要調查原因。因為後面它有連續5天都是異常死亡，異常死亡就不能當作一般非典型的部分去處理，必須去做一些比較強制的處理。到底是飼主拒絕，還是動保處的人員沒有去做，這個都是在疫調的過程中會處理的。"],["王委員鴻薇：現在飼主能夠拒絕嗎？飼主能拒絕嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：他不能拒絕，如果動保處要強制採檢的話，飼主是不能拒絕的。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以現在法律上規定飼主是不能拒絕的嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：完全是不能拒絕的嗎？因為今天獸醫所調查出來、診斷出來……"],["陳部長駿季：拒絕的話，他會被罰款。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以你的意思是，地方政府是可以用罰款的方式，是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：但是我覺得像遇到這種類似的，因為獸醫師也應該知道這些非典型的症狀，非洲豬瘟跟哪一些非典型症狀的疾病是一樣的，如果是1隻、2隻，那還好，如果是異常死亡，而且連續異常死亡的時候，就應該更加警惕。"],["王委員鴻薇：我最後問一句，我不要占用大家時間。除了這個養豬場之外，在其他的養豬場目前有沒有出現也有異常死亡的現象？到目前為止。"],["陳部長駿季：到目前為止的關聯場，並沒有異常死亡的現象。"],["王委員鴻薇：到目前為止？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：目前就是鎖定在這個養豬場？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們鎖定這個養豬場，還有它周遭3公里的，還有它的化製車經過的這些關聯場。"],["王委員鴻薇：除了這個關聯場之外，我想全臺灣的豬農都非常緊張，目前在通報上有沒有類似的？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，目前沒有。"],["王委員鴻薇：譬如這種大量死亡？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有。"],["王委員鴻薇：但是我還是希望對這些非典型的病態，因為在第一線，這是我們第一次，大家可能經驗不足，會有經驗不足的問題，所以在非典型病態的部分，是不是應該要有一些精進方案的提出？"],["陳部長駿季：我想透過這次疫調，一定有更多可以精進的作為。所有這些防疫人員都是非常辛苦的，但是有一些相關的判斷上來講，也沒有辦法很及時，但是我想我們會針對這一次的疫調過程中設計出一個新的機制，讓我們第一線的同仁……"],["王委員鴻薇：一個新的SOP，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：對，讓新的……"],["王委員鴻薇：讓所有地方第一線的防疫人員……"],["陳部長駿季：讓第一線的人員能夠更快的因應，因為我們是以維護臺灣的產業為主，我想我們大家一起努力，中央跟地方都要一起努力。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，了解，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來我們請黃捷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-7","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","張啓楷","邱志偉","呂玉玲","謝衣鳯","蔡易餘","陳培瑜","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","黃捷","徐欣瑩","陳超明","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-23"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長及財政部關務署首長就「非洲豬瘟防檢疫後續防疫精進作為」進行報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00001"}}}