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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 698.357, \"end\": 698.377, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,540 --> 00:00:22,580\n好主席謝謝麻煩請陳代理主委主委謝謝好代理主委早代理主委上禮拜一跟三我們四位NCC被提名人包括主委副主委以及兩位委員的審查過程有沒有關注有有關注喔是那有全程的看他們的一個答詢\n\n2\n00:00:23,485 --> 00:00:52,677\n除了部分時間在開會之外我都有在看了解好那有沒有看到注意到我們開宗明義都請教四位委員一個問題啊什麼時候接受行政院院長的徵詢有這個問題什麼時候主委是什麼時候接受行政院長的徵詢跟跟專委報告這部分主委提名人什麼時候被徵詢這個不在我的掌握範圍不是你不是說都有看嗎他們都公開的答詢啊他們\n\n3\n00:00:53,803 --> 00:01:21,451\n所以你有看但是他們答詢的內容你沒有記住有人說是五月啊五月好主委是五月五號被徵詢啊他到最後他自己講說五月被徵詢但他說徵詢了兩次來那副主委什麼時候被徵詢這部分他好像講的又比較精準一點好像是好像是四月份四月好那黃薇薇委員勒\n\n4\n00:01:23,008 --> 00:01:44,810\n這部分剛好我在開會好那個下午的羅委員他說什麼時候被徵詢去年11月所以四位委員都講是最晚是五月被徵詢就已經答應說要出任NCC委員那請教這一次新的NCC委員名單什麼時候送出來\n\n5\n00:01:49,071 --> 00:02:00,382\n應該7月307月31就剛好就是滿一年嘛去年的731上一任四位委員到期那今年731剛好週年啊行政院長才把名單送出來\n\n6\n00:02:01,516 --> 00:02:27,257\n那會不會覺得很奇怪五月那時候我們還有交通文化還有開會喔本席也在這邊自己一直救教我就說有沒有跟行政院長你也講啊這不是你的權責所以我不怪你但是我說既然現在一直講說NCC只剩下三位委員然後有些業務沒有辦法運作換照時間到了要換照沒有辦法做然後一直跟我們講是說哇視聽大眾的權益很重要\n\n7\n00:02:28,118 --> 00:02:55,654\n那結果千呼萬喚使出來是四位委員最晚一位都是五月就被徵詢並且答應了結果到731才送出名單為什麼你會不會覺得你自己很孤單你代理主委結果沒想到行政院長沒有聽到我們NCC所有業務的需求明明已經好了然後壓著名單不送出來我們立法院要審查都沒有辦法審查\n\n8\n00:02:57,932 --> 00:03:09,025\n主委認為這樣合適嗎抱歉這部分我沒辦法來你沒有辦法批評你沒有辦法評論這是行政院長對我的立場是我沒辦法評論擺爛嘛\n\n9\n00:03:13,659 --> 00:03:38,440\n實在話就擺爛了而且還要騙國人講是說有哪一位委員有什麼職涯生涯規劃但是我們問完了四位委員都說沒有啊我姑且相信四位委員在這邊他們是被提名的身份他們在國會殿堂向國人跟立法委員說明他們應該要講實話那只有一個人沒有講實話就行政院啊就卓榮泰啊那到底七三一以前在幹嘛\n\n10\n00:03:40,080 --> 00:04:06,150\n不願意依法行政就是現在國家最大的悲哀但是程序處理這樣子沒有依法行政內容有委員還持續堅持說新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎這是我詢問我就直接請教說是不是你到目前為止都還堅持你當初講新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎他答是請教代理主委\n\n11\n00:04:07,148 --> 00:04:33,401\n你有辦法未來如果說這樣的委員你有辦法跟他共事嗎你覺得他的理念新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎跟你的理念一樣嗎兩個部分回答第一部分是每個人都有言論自由這是第一點第二點我現在沒有辦法就未來還沒發生的情形來回答是所以你已經回答第一個是每個人都有言論自由嘛言論自由新聞自由是每個人的普世價值嘛\n\n12\n00:04:34,241 --> 00:04:53,710\n你沒有我不尊重你說話的內容但我適時捍衛你的言論自由這就是民主法治國家可是他居然直接踐踏新聞自由到這種程度新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎當然不能吃啊但新聞自由是我們共同要努力捍衛的啊不是嗎\n\n13\n00:04:57,537 --> 00:05:08,412\n不要只是微微點頭啦可以回答是是是那個朝偉的當然是普世價值當然是新聞自由大家都來推崇大家都來當作一個閨蜜那李主委所以我\n\n14\n00:05:09,967 --> 00:05:30,739\n講完上個禮拜我們的答詢四位委員我想我跟廖先祥委員還有我們好幾位委員其實都很用心我們四位委員都有答詢或是說有一些反正該答詢我們都要答詢我們問得很清楚那接下來送出交通委員會大院會做投票我想我們也會本於民意代表的職責\n\n15\n00:05:32,133 --> 00:05:58,437\n合適我們不會刻意阻攔但如果不合適沒有辦法堅守新聞自由言論自由行政中立我們也絕對不會放水那可能也要請我們代理主委做好持續代理的工作心理準備做最壞的打算最好的準備但重點是NCC的業務不能就像如同您剛剛有報告的地方一樣該做的要做\n\n16\n00:05:59,427 --> 00:06:23,268\n跟召委報告NC委員組成是多元我們希望越多元的組成對這個會的當然就是多元但是絕對不是刻意放水所以我剛提了嘛就如果說他答詢的時候都在講這種偏薄的話行政不中立的話我們也沒有辦法接受啊來代理主委我想再請教一個比較實務面的問題喔e-sync\n\n17\n00:06:24,158 --> 00:06:48,646\n的業務現在手機大家仍然使用那有一個是SIM卡的部分看從2014年2015年開始科技進步有eSIM出來其實他就是實體的SIM卡變成是線上的SIM卡可是在國外行之有年的部分現在要換eSIM居然是每一次更換要被系統業者收取300元的作業費設定費\n\n18\n00:06:50,655 --> 00:07:06,438\n是跟周浩報告周偉剛剛講的確實沒錯這個一信就是實體卡變成一個軟體設定的分位的一些卡其實在本國主要原因是因為要做身分確認做打架至於收費的部分其實我換個角度來看\n\n19\n00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:30,980\n基本情況下都不收費因為我們問過我們也跟業者來要求過過去一年內業者手上的一線的客戶大概有九成都其實都沒有收費的包括首次申辦從實體卡變成一線卡變成一線的都沒有收費送修的也沒有專案購的也沒有VIP或老客戶也沒有所以基本上大部分都九成的用戶其實都不會收費\n\n20\n00:07:31,943 --> 00:07:53,595\n但你說也不用那麼急著幫業者講話本席先聽完本席的問題您再回答我只想請教我們進來NCC去了解那有沒有詢問我沒有說一定不收費該合理的成本要cover也不能一定讓業者吸收但是我要問的是300元合不合理因為300元等於是10塊美金嘛\n\n21\n00:07:54,622 --> 00:08:09,573\n那本席也查了有在國外譬如說美國的部分也有他們有一些方案等等的他們有收取這個手續費但我現在想問的是當現在很多民眾看到說每一次手機轉換異性都要收300元\n\n22\n00:08:10,814 --> 00:08:31,124\n即便是我已經換了eSIM但我要換新的手機我要再付300元可是跟SIM卡不同的是SIM卡只要我有一張實體的SIM卡我買新手機我直接把SIM卡拔下來放到新的手機裡面就可以換了不用任何成本所以我想問的是在一定的規模裡面eSIM一直收300元到底合不合理\n\n23\n00:08:31,624 --> 00:08:41,955\n或是我們NCC了解說現在系統業者去轉換300元這一個價格是剛好符合成本還是其實有多收還是業者賠本在做\n\n24\n00:08:43,437 --> 00:09:03,474\n說明一下是那我們會我們已經持續跟業者來溝通我們希望說能夠適當的反映成本那當然陳主剛剛在我提到所以現在先讓我了解一下我們有沒有去理解現在300元到底是業者是賠本做可能也許成本要600他收300是賠本300啊還是說他成本只要150他收300是賺150\n\n25\n00:09:06,827 --> 00:09:26,256\n他的成本其實包括付給GSMA這個平台這個醫診平台的費用所以主委因為你是主管機關你有公權力我們民意代表我們也是聽民眾的澄清跟反應那我們也沒有辦法理解到底是300元是高低還是剛好這個成本就像之前有一個750元之亂\n\n26\n00:09:28,217 --> 00:09:53,220\n人家也會覺得是說你要收取審查費啊可是你一視同仁全都收750那有人只是譬如說我只是買網購一個300塊的無線滑鼠我要付750的設定費審查費跟我網購一個3萬塊的這個無線通訊軟體無線通訊設備要收750的審查費那就不合理也因此才會有那時候的750之亂嘛\n\n27\n00:09:54,520 --> 00:10:09,967\n是簡單跟詹委員回報就是因為所謂的異性的量越來越多我們也跟業者溝通結果是認為說所以他的量提升他成本分攤的可以下降這個我相信未來是有機會300塊會往下調對所以量要多大300塊往下調\n\n28\n00:10:12,314 --> 00:10:37,869\n他們都是實體卡跟依信的部分它到達一定的業者告訴我們說隨著量的提升它成本一定攤銷上一定會下降的我們有跟業者溝通希望近期能夠反映出來主委是說實在話商務模式如果說你都是聽業者講我們沒有自己去稍微算一下的話業者100年都會跟你講說他永遠是虧錢\n\n29\n00:10:39,457 --> 00:10:57,152\n是的一百年他都跟你講是說他現在是所以本席現在才會提出來講是說是不是能夠請NCG去了解到底他現在是成本符不符合比例以及300元的一個設定合不合理能夠檢討要檢討而不是都聽業者講\n\n30\n00:10:59,161 --> 00:11:13,841\n是的我们找过业者我们会再请他提供资料我们再去请他提供他成本分析资料我们再跟大家来要求好那是不是也可以提供给本席以及我们交通委员会的委员来做之后问证的参考\n\n31\n00:11:14,201 --> 00:11:38,377\n好那監討的報告我會提給召委跟交通委員會好不涉及商務機密的部分提供那並且讓我們知道也請NCC還是要妥善因為既然一信是一個未來趨勢我們也希望是說節能減淡或說把實體的訊卡如果說未來的趨勢是這個樣子那該應該要超前部署要超前部署好嗎好沒問題謝謝好謝謝召委好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n540\t22580\t好主席謝謝麻煩請陳代理主委主委謝謝好代理主委早代理主委上禮拜一跟三我們四位NCC被提名人包括主委副主委以及兩位委員的審查過程有沒有關注有有關注喔是那有全程的看他們的一個答詢\n23485\t52677\t除了部分時間在開會之外我都有在看了解好那有沒有看到注意到我們開宗明義都請教四位委員一個問題啊什麼時候接受行政院院長的徵詢有這個問題什麼時候主委是什麼時候接受行政院長的徵詢跟跟專委報告這部分主委提名人什麼時候被徵詢這個不在我的掌握範圍不是你不是說都有看嗎他們都公開的答詢啊他們\n53803\t81451\t所以你有看但是他們答詢的內容你沒有記住有人說是五月啊五月 好 主委是五月五號被徵詢啊他到最後他自己講說五月被徵詢但他說徵詢了兩次來 那副主委什麼時候被徵詢這部分他好像講的又比較精準一點好像是好像是四月份四月 好 那黃薇薇委員勒\n83008\t104810\t這部分剛好我在開會 好 那個下午的羅委員他說什麼時候被徵詢去年11月所以四位委員都講是最晚是五月被徵詢就已經答應說要出任NCC委員那請教這一次新的NCC委員名單什麼時候送出來\n109071\t120382\t應該7月30 7月31就剛好就是滿一年嘛去年的731上一任四位委員到期那今年731剛好週年啊行政院長才把名單送出來\n121516\t147257\t那會不會覺得很奇怪五月那時候我們還有交通文化還有開會喔本席也在這邊自己一直救教我就說有沒有跟行政院長你也講啊這不是你的權責所以我不怪你但是我說既然現在一直講說NCC只剩下三位委員然後有些業務沒有辦法運作換照時間到了要換照沒有辦法做然後一直跟我們講是說哇視聽大眾的權益很重要\n148118\t175654\t那結果千呼萬喚使出來是四位委員最晚一位都是五月就被徵詢並且答應了結果到731才送出名單為什麼你會不會覺得你自己很孤單你代理主委結果沒想到行政院長沒有聽到我們NCC所有業務的需求明明已經好了然後壓著名單不送出來我們立法院要審查都沒有辦法審查\n177932\t189025\t主委認為這樣合適嗎抱歉這部分我沒辦法來你沒有辦法批評 你沒有辦法評論這是行政院長對 我的立場是我沒辦法評論擺爛嘛\n193659\t218440\t實在話就擺爛了而且還要騙國人講是說有哪一位委員有什麼職涯生涯規劃但是我們問完了四位委員都說沒有啊我姑且相信四位委員在這邊他們是被提名的身份他們在國會殿堂向國人跟立法委員說明他們應該要講實話那只有一個人沒有講實話就行政院啊就卓榮泰啊那到底七三一以前在幹嘛\n220080\t246150\t不願意依法行政就是現在國家最大的悲哀但是程序處理這樣子沒有依法行政內容有委員還持續堅持說新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎這是我詢問我就直接請教說是不是你到目前為止都還堅持你當初講新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎他答是請教代理主委\n247148\t273401\t你有辦法未來如果說這樣的委員你有辦法跟他共事嗎你覺得他的理念新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎跟你的理念一樣嗎兩個部分回答 第一部分是每個人都有言論自由這是第一點 第二點我現在沒有辦法就未來還沒發生的情形來回答是 所以你已經回答第一個是每個人都有言論自由嘛言論自由 新聞自由是每個人的普世價值嘛\n274241\t293710\t你沒有 我不尊重你說話的內容但我適時捍衛你的言論自由這就是民主法治國家可是他居然直接踐踏新聞自由到這種程度新聞自由是什麼 能吃嗎當然不能吃啊 但新聞自由是我們共同要努力捍衛的啊不是嗎\n297537\t308412\t不要只是微微點頭啦可以回答是是是那個朝偉的當然是普世價值當然是新聞自由大家都來推崇大家都來當作一個閨蜜那李主委所以我\n309967\t330739\t講完上個禮拜我們的答詢四位委員我想我跟廖先祥委員還有我們好幾位委員其實都很用心我們四位委員都有答詢或是說有一些反正該答詢我們都要答詢我們問得很清楚那接下來送出交通委員會大院會做投票我想我們也會本於民意代表的職責\n332133\t358437\t合適我們不會刻意阻攔但如果不合適沒有辦法堅守新聞自由言論自由行政中立我們也絕對不會放水那可能也要請我們代理主委做好持續代理的工作心理準備做最壞的打算最好的準備但重點是NCC的業務不能就像如同您剛剛有報告的地方一樣該做的要做\n359427\t383268\t跟召委報告NC委員組成是多元我們希望越多元的組成對這個會的當然就是多元但是絕對不是刻意放水所以我剛提了嘛就如果說他答詢的時候都在講這種偏薄的話行政不中立的話我們也沒有辦法接受啊來代理主委我想再請教一個比較實務面的問題喔e-sync\n384158\t408646\t的業務現在手機大家仍然使用那有一個是SIM卡的部分看從2014年2015年開始科技進步有eSIM出來其實他就是實體的SIM卡變成是線上的SIM卡可是在國外行之有年的部分現在要換eSIM居然是每一次更換要被系統業者收取300元的作業費設定費\n410655\t426438\t是 跟周浩報告 周偉剛剛講的確實沒錯這個一信就是實體卡變成一個軟體設定的分位的一些卡其實在本國主要原因是因為要做身分確認 做打架至於收費的部分 其實我換個角度來看\n427279\t450980\t基本情況下都不收費因為我們問過我們也跟業者來要求過過去一年內業者手上的一線的客戶大概有九成都其實都沒有收費的包括首次申辦從實體卡變成一線卡變成一線的都沒有收費送修的也沒有 專案購的也沒有VIP或老客戶也沒有所以基本上大部分都九成的用戶其實都不會收費\n451943\t473595\t但你說也不用那麼急著幫業者講話本席先聽完本席的問題您再回答我只想請教我們進來NCC去了解那有沒有詢問我沒有說一定不收費該合理的成本要cover也不能一定讓業者吸收但是我要問的是300元合不合理因為300元等於是10塊美金嘛\n474622\t489573\t那本席也查了有在國外譬如說美國的部分也有他們有一些方案等等的他們有收取這個手續費但我現在想問的是當現在很多民眾看到說每一次手機轉換異性都要收300元\n490814\t511124\t即便是我已經換了eSIM但我要換新的手機我要再付300元可是跟SIM卡不同的是SIM卡只要我有一張實體的SIM卡我買新手機我直接把SIM卡拔下來放到新的手機裡面就可以換了不用任何成本所以我想問的是在一定的規模裡面eSIM一直收300元到底合不合理\n511624\t521955\t或是我們NCC了解說現在系統業者去轉換300元這一個價格是剛好符合成本還是其實有多收還是業者賠本在做\n523437\t543474\t說明一下是 那我們會我們已經持續跟業者來溝通我們希望說能夠適當的反映成本那當然陳主剛剛在我提到所以現在先讓我了解一下我們有沒有去理解現在300元到底是業者是賠本做可能也許成本要600他收300是賠本300啊還是說他成本只要150他收300是賺150\n546827\t566256\t他的成本其實包括付給GSMA這個平台這個醫診平台的費用所以主委因為你是主管機關你有公權力我們民意代表我們也是聽民眾的澄清跟反應那我們也沒有辦法理解到底是300元是高低還是剛好這個成本就像之前有一個750元之亂\n568217\t593220\t人家也會覺得是說你要收取審查費啊可是你一視同仁全都收750那有人只是譬如說我只是買網購一個300塊的無線滑鼠我要付750的設定費審查費跟我網購一個3萬塊的這個無線通訊軟體無線通訊設備要收750的審查費那就不合理也因此才會有那時候的750之亂嘛\n594520\t609967\t是 簡單跟詹委員回報就是因為所謂的異性的量越來越多我們也跟業者溝通結果是認為說所以他的量提升他成本分攤的可以下降這個我相信未來是有機會300塊會往下調對 所以量要多大300塊往下調\n612314\t637869\t他們都是實體卡跟依信的部分它到達一定的業者告訴我們說隨著量的提升它成本一定攤銷上一定會下降的我們有跟業者溝通希望近期能夠反映出來主委 是說實在話商務模式如果說你都是聽業者講我們沒有自己去稍微算一下的話業者100年都會跟你講說他永遠是虧錢\n639457\t657152\t是的一百年他都跟你講是說他現在是所以本席現在才會提出來講是說是不是能夠請NCG去了解到底他現在是成本符不符合比例以及300元的一個設定合不合理能夠檢討要檢討而不是都聽業者講\n659161\t673841\t是的 我们找过业者我们会再请他提供资料我们再去请他提供他成本分析资料我们再跟大家来要求好 那是不是也可以提供给本席以及我们交通委员会的委员来做之后问证的参考\n674201\t698377\t好那監討的報告我會提給召委跟交通委員會好不涉及商務機密的部分提供那並且讓我們知道也請NCC還是要妥善因為既然一信是一個未來趨勢我們也希望是說節能減淡或說把實體的訊卡如果說未來的趨勢是這個樣子那該應該要超前部署要超前部署好嗎好沒問題謝謝好謝謝召委好謝謝\n","txt":"好主席謝謝麻煩請陳代理主委主委謝謝好代理主委早代理主委上禮拜一跟三我們四位NCC被提名人包括主委副主委以及兩位委員的審查過程有沒有關注有有關注喔是那有全程的看他們的一個答詢\n除了部分時間在開會之外我都有在看了解好那有沒有看到注意到我們開宗明義都請教四位委員一個問題啊什麼時候接受行政院院長的徵詢有這個問題什麼時候主委是什麼時候接受行政院長的徵詢跟跟專委報告這部分主委提名人什麼時候被徵詢這個不在我的掌握範圍不是你不是說都有看嗎他們都公開的答詢啊他們\n所以你有看但是他們答詢的內容你沒有記住有人說是五月啊五月 好 主委是五月五號被徵詢啊他到最後他自己講說五月被徵詢但他說徵詢了兩次來 那副主委什麼時候被徵詢這部分他好像講的又比較精準一點好像是好像是四月份四月 好 那黃薇薇委員勒\n這部分剛好我在開會 好 那個下午的羅委員他說什麼時候被徵詢去年11月所以四位委員都講是最晚是五月被徵詢就已經答應說要出任NCC委員那請教這一次新的NCC委員名單什麼時候送出來\n應該7月30 7月31就剛好就是滿一年嘛去年的731上一任四位委員到期那今年731剛好週年啊行政院長才把名單送出來\n那會不會覺得很奇怪五月那時候我們還有交通文化還有開會喔本席也在這邊自己一直救教我就說有沒有跟行政院長你也講啊這不是你的權責所以我不怪你但是我說既然現在一直講說NCC只剩下三位委員然後有些業務沒有辦法運作換照時間到了要換照沒有辦法做然後一直跟我們講是說哇視聽大眾的權益很重要\n那結果千呼萬喚使出來是四位委員最晚一位都是五月就被徵詢並且答應了結果到731才送出名單為什麼你會不會覺得你自己很孤單你代理主委結果沒想到行政院長沒有聽到我們NCC所有業務的需求明明已經好了然後壓著名單不送出來我們立法院要審查都沒有辦法審查\n主委認為這樣合適嗎抱歉這部分我沒辦法來你沒有辦法批評 你沒有辦法評論這是行政院長對 我的立場是我沒辦法評論擺爛嘛\n實在話就擺爛了而且還要騙國人講是說有哪一位委員有什麼職涯生涯規劃但是我們問完了四位委員都說沒有啊我姑且相信四位委員在這邊他們是被提名的身份他們在國會殿堂向國人跟立法委員說明他們應該要講實話那只有一個人沒有講實話就行政院啊就卓榮泰啊那到底七三一以前在幹嘛\n不願意依法行政就是現在國家最大的悲哀但是程序處理這樣子沒有依法行政內容有委員還持續堅持說新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎這是我詢問我就直接請教說是不是你到目前為止都還堅持你當初講新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎他答是請教代理主委\n你有辦法未來如果說這樣的委員你有辦法跟他共事嗎你覺得他的理念新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎跟你的理念一樣嗎兩個部分回答 第一部分是每個人都有言論自由這是第一點 第二點我現在沒有辦法就未來還沒發生的情形來回答是 所以你已經回答第一個是每個人都有言論自由嘛言論自由 新聞自由是每個人的普世價值嘛\n你沒有 我不尊重你說話的內容但我適時捍衛你的言論自由這就是民主法治國家可是他居然直接踐踏新聞自由到這種程度新聞自由是什麼 能吃嗎當然不能吃啊 但新聞自由是我們共同要努力捍衛的啊不是嗎\n不要只是微微點頭啦可以回答是是是那個朝偉的當然是普世價值當然是新聞自由大家都來推崇大家都來當作一個閨蜜那李主委所以我\n講完上個禮拜我們的答詢四位委員我想我跟廖先祥委員還有我們好幾位委員其實都很用心我們四位委員都有答詢或是說有一些反正該答詢我們都要答詢我們問得很清楚那接下來送出交通委員會大院會做投票我想我們也會本於民意代表的職責\n合適我們不會刻意阻攔但如果不合適沒有辦法堅守新聞自由言論自由行政中立我們也絕對不會放水那可能也要請我們代理主委做好持續代理的工作心理準備做最壞的打算最好的準備但重點是NCC的業務不能就像如同您剛剛有報告的地方一樣該做的要做\n跟召委報告NC委員組成是多元我們希望越多元的組成對這個會的當然就是多元但是絕對不是刻意放水所以我剛提了嘛就如果說他答詢的時候都在講這種偏薄的話行政不中立的話我們也沒有辦法接受啊來代理主委我想再請教一個比較實務面的問題喔e-sync\n的業務現在手機大家仍然使用那有一個是SIM卡的部分看從2014年2015年開始科技進步有eSIM出來其實他就是實體的SIM卡變成是線上的SIM卡可是在國外行之有年的部分現在要換eSIM居然是每一次更換要被系統業者收取300元的作業費設定費\n是 跟周浩報告 周偉剛剛講的確實沒錯這個一信就是實體卡變成一個軟體設定的分位的一些卡其實在本國主要原因是因為要做身分確認 做打架至於收費的部分 其實我換個角度來看\n基本情況下都不收費因為我們問過我們也跟業者來要求過過去一年內業者手上的一線的客戶大概有九成都其實都沒有收費的包括首次申辦從實體卡變成一線卡變成一線的都沒有收費送修的也沒有 專案購的也沒有VIP或老客戶也沒有所以基本上大部分都九成的用戶其實都不會收費\n但你說也不用那麼急著幫業者講話本席先聽完本席的問題您再回答我只想請教我們進來NCC去了解那有沒有詢問我沒有說一定不收費該合理的成本要cover也不能一定讓業者吸收但是我要問的是300元合不合理因為300元等於是10塊美金嘛\n那本席也查了有在國外譬如說美國的部分也有他們有一些方案等等的他們有收取這個手續費但我現在想問的是當現在很多民眾看到說每一次手機轉換異性都要收300元\n即便是我已經換了eSIM但我要換新的手機我要再付300元可是跟SIM卡不同的是SIM卡只要我有一張實體的SIM卡我買新手機我直接把SIM卡拔下來放到新的手機裡面就可以換了不用任何成本所以我想問的是在一定的規模裡面eSIM一直收300元到底合不合理\n或是我們NCC了解說現在系統業者去轉換300元這一個價格是剛好符合成本還是其實有多收還是業者賠本在做\n說明一下是 那我們會我們已經持續跟業者來溝通我們希望說能夠適當的反映成本那當然陳主剛剛在我提到所以現在先讓我了解一下我們有沒有去理解現在300元到底是業者是賠本做可能也許成本要600他收300是賠本300啊還是說他成本只要150他收300是賺150\n他的成本其實包括付給GSMA這個平台這個醫診平台的費用所以主委因為你是主管機關你有公權力我們民意代表我們也是聽民眾的澄清跟反應那我們也沒有辦法理解到底是300元是高低還是剛好這個成本就像之前有一個750元之亂\n人家也會覺得是說你要收取審查費啊可是你一視同仁全都收750那有人只是譬如說我只是買網購一個300塊的無線滑鼠我要付750的設定費審查費跟我網購一個3萬塊的這個無線通訊軟體無線通訊設備要收750的審查費那就不合理也因此才會有那時候的750之亂嘛\n是 簡單跟詹委員回報就是因為所謂的異性的量越來越多我們也跟業者溝通結果是認為說所以他的量提升他成本分攤的可以下降這個我相信未來是有機會300塊會往下調對 所以量要多大300塊往下調\n他們都是實體卡跟依信的部分它到達一定的業者告訴我們說隨著量的提升它成本一定攤銷上一定會下降的我們有跟業者溝通希望近期能夠反映出來主委 是說實在話商務模式如果說你都是聽業者講我們沒有自己去稍微算一下的話業者100年都會跟你講說他永遠是虧錢\n是的一百年他都跟你講是說他現在是所以本席現在才會提出來講是說是不是能夠請NCG去了解到底他現在是成本符不符合比例以及300元的一個設定合不合理能夠檢討要檢討而不是都聽業者講\n是的 我们找过业者我们会再请他提供资料我们再去请他提供他成本分析资料我们再跟大家来要求好 那是不是也可以提供给本席以及我们交通委员会的委员来做之后问证的参考\n好那監討的報告我會提給召委跟交通委員會好不涉及商務機密的部分提供那並且讓我們知道也請NCC還是要妥善因為既然一信是一個未來趨勢我們也希望是說節能減淡或說把實體的訊卡如果說未來的趨勢是這個樣子那該應該要超前部署要超前部署好嗎好沒問題謝謝好謝謝召委好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.540 --> 00:22.580\n好主席謝謝麻煩請陳代理主委主委謝謝好代理主委早代理主委上禮拜一跟三我們四位NCC被提名人包括主委副主委以及兩位委員的審查過程有沒有關注有有關注喔是那有全程的看他們的一個答詢\n\n00:23.485 --> 00:52.677\n除了部分時間在開會之外我都有在看了解好那有沒有看到注意到我們開宗明義都請教四位委員一個問題啊什麼時候接受行政院院長的徵詢有這個問題什麼時候主委是什麼時候接受行政院長的徵詢跟跟專委報告這部分主委提名人什麼時候被徵詢這個不在我的掌握範圍不是你不是說都有看嗎他們都公開的答詢啊他們\n\n00:53.803 --> 01:21.451\n所以你有看但是他們答詢的內容你沒有記住有人說是五月啊五月好主委是五月五號被徵詢啊他到最後他自己講說五月被徵詢但他說徵詢了兩次來那副主委什麼時候被徵詢這部分他好像講的又比較精準一點好像是好像是四月份四月好那黃薇薇委員勒\n\n01:23.008 --> 01:44.810\n這部分剛好我在開會好那個下午的羅委員他說什麼時候被徵詢去年11月所以四位委員都講是最晚是五月被徵詢就已經答應說要出任NCC委員那請教這一次新的NCC委員名單什麼時候送出來\n\n01:49.071 --> 02:00.382\n應該7月307月31就剛好就是滿一年嘛去年的731上一任四位委員到期那今年731剛好週年啊行政院長才把名單送出來\n\n02:01.516 --> 02:27.257\n那會不會覺得很奇怪五月那時候我們還有交通文化還有開會喔本席也在這邊自己一直救教我就說有沒有跟行政院長你也講啊這不是你的權責所以我不怪你但是我說既然現在一直講說NCC只剩下三位委員然後有些業務沒有辦法運作換照時間到了要換照沒有辦法做然後一直跟我們講是說哇視聽大眾的權益很重要\n\n02:28.118 --> 02:55.654\n那結果千呼萬喚使出來是四位委員最晚一位都是五月就被徵詢並且答應了結果到731才送出名單為什麼你會不會覺得你自己很孤單你代理主委結果沒想到行政院長沒有聽到我們NCC所有業務的需求明明已經好了然後壓著名單不送出來我們立法院要審查都沒有辦法審查\n\n02:57.932 --> 03:09.025\n主委認為這樣合適嗎抱歉這部分我沒辦法來你沒有辦法批評你沒有辦法評論這是行政院長對我的立場是我沒辦法評論擺爛嘛\n\n03:13.659 --> 03:38.440\n實在話就擺爛了而且還要騙國人講是說有哪一位委員有什麼職涯生涯規劃但是我們問完了四位委員都說沒有啊我姑且相信四位委員在這邊他們是被提名的身份他們在國會殿堂向國人跟立法委員說明他們應該要講實話那只有一個人沒有講實話就行政院啊就卓榮泰啊那到底七三一以前在幹嘛\n\n03:40.080 --> 04:06.150\n不願意依法行政就是現在國家最大的悲哀但是程序處理這樣子沒有依法行政內容有委員還持續堅持說新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎這是我詢問我就直接請教說是不是你到目前為止都還堅持你當初講新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎他答是請教代理主委\n\n04:07.148 --> 04:33.401\n你有辦法未來如果說這樣的委員你有辦法跟他共事嗎你覺得他的理念新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎跟你的理念一樣嗎兩個部分回答第一部分是每個人都有言論自由這是第一點第二點我現在沒有辦法就未來還沒發生的情形來回答是所以你已經回答第一個是每個人都有言論自由嘛言論自由新聞自由是每個人的普世價值嘛\n\n04:34.241 --> 04:53.710\n你沒有我不尊重你說話的內容但我適時捍衛你的言論自由這就是民主法治國家可是他居然直接踐踏新聞自由到這種程度新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎當然不能吃啊但新聞自由是我們共同要努力捍衛的啊不是嗎\n\n04:57.537 --> 05:08.412\n不要只是微微點頭啦可以回答是是是那個朝偉的當然是普世價值當然是新聞自由大家都來推崇大家都來當作一個閨蜜那李主委所以我\n\n05:09.967 --> 05:30.739\n講完上個禮拜我們的答詢四位委員我想我跟廖先祥委員還有我們好幾位委員其實都很用心我們四位委員都有答詢或是說有一些反正該答詢我們都要答詢我們問得很清楚那接下來送出交通委員會大院會做投票我想我們也會本於民意代表的職責\n\n05:32.133 --> 05:58.437\n合適我們不會刻意阻攔但如果不合適沒有辦法堅守新聞自由言論自由行政中立我們也絕對不會放水那可能也要請我們代理主委做好持續代理的工作心理準備做最壞的打算最好的準備但重點是NCC的業務不能就像如同您剛剛有報告的地方一樣該做的要做\n\n05:59.427 --> 06:23.268\n跟召委報告NC委員組成是多元我們希望越多元的組成對這個會的當然就是多元但是絕對不是刻意放水所以我剛提了嘛就如果說他答詢的時候都在講這種偏薄的話行政不中立的話我們也沒有辦法接受啊來代理主委我想再請教一個比較實務面的問題喔e-sync\n\n06:24.158 --> 06:48.646\n的業務現在手機大家仍然使用那有一個是SIM卡的部分看從2014年2015年開始科技進步有eSIM出來其實他就是實體的SIM卡變成是線上的SIM卡可是在國外行之有年的部分現在要換eSIM居然是每一次更換要被系統業者收取300元的作業費設定費\n\n06:50.655 --> 07:06.438\n是跟周浩報告周偉剛剛講的確實沒錯這個一信就是實體卡變成一個軟體設定的分位的一些卡其實在本國主要原因是因為要做身分確認做打架至於收費的部分其實我換個角度來看\n\n07:07.279 --> 07:30.980\n基本情況下都不收費因為我們問過我們也跟業者來要求過過去一年內業者手上的一線的客戶大概有九成都其實都沒有收費的包括首次申辦從實體卡變成一線卡變成一線的都沒有收費送修的也沒有專案購的也沒有VIP或老客戶也沒有所以基本上大部分都九成的用戶其實都不會收費\n\n07:31.943 --> 07:53.595\n但你說也不用那麼急著幫業者講話本席先聽完本席的問題您再回答我只想請教我們進來NCC去了解那有沒有詢問我沒有說一定不收費該合理的成本要cover也不能一定讓業者吸收但是我要問的是300元合不合理因為300元等於是10塊美金嘛\n\n07:54.622 --> 08:09.573\n那本席也查了有在國外譬如說美國的部分也有他們有一些方案等等的他們有收取這個手續費但我現在想問的是當現在很多民眾看到說每一次手機轉換異性都要收300元\n\n08:10.814 --> 08:31.124\n即便是我已經換了eSIM但我要換新的手機我要再付300元可是跟SIM卡不同的是SIM卡只要我有一張實體的SIM卡我買新手機我直接把SIM卡拔下來放到新的手機裡面就可以換了不用任何成本所以我想問的是在一定的規模裡面eSIM一直收300元到底合不合理\n\n08:31.624 --> 08:41.955\n或是我們NCC了解說現在系統業者去轉換300元這一個價格是剛好符合成本還是其實有多收還是業者賠本在做\n\n08:43.437 --> 09:03.474\n說明一下是那我們會我們已經持續跟業者來溝通我們希望說能夠適當的反映成本那當然陳主剛剛在我提到所以現在先讓我了解一下我們有沒有去理解現在300元到底是業者是賠本做可能也許成本要600他收300是賠本300啊還是說他成本只要150他收300是賺150\n\n09:06.827 --> 09:26.256\n他的成本其實包括付給GSMA這個平台這個醫診平台的費用所以主委因為你是主管機關你有公權力我們民意代表我們也是聽民眾的澄清跟反應那我們也沒有辦法理解到底是300元是高低還是剛好這個成本就像之前有一個750元之亂\n\n09:28.217 --> 09:53.220\n人家也會覺得是說你要收取審查費啊可是你一視同仁全都收750那有人只是譬如說我只是買網購一個300塊的無線滑鼠我要付750的設定費審查費跟我網購一個3萬塊的這個無線通訊軟體無線通訊設備要收750的審查費那就不合理也因此才會有那時候的750之亂嘛\n\n09:54.520 --> 10:09.967\n是簡單跟詹委員回報就是因為所謂的異性的量越來越多我們也跟業者溝通結果是認為說所以他的量提升他成本分攤的可以下降這個我相信未來是有機會300塊會往下調對所以量要多大300塊往下調\n\n10:12.314 --> 10:37.869\n他們都是實體卡跟依信的部分它到達一定的業者告訴我們說隨著量的提升它成本一定攤銷上一定會下降的我們有跟業者溝通希望近期能夠反映出來主委是說實在話商務模式如果說你都是聽業者講我們沒有自己去稍微算一下的話業者100年都會跟你講說他永遠是虧錢\n\n10:39.457 --> 10:57.152\n是的一百年他都跟你講是說他現在是所以本席現在才會提出來講是說是不是能夠請NCG去了解到底他現在是成本符不符合比例以及300元的一個設定合不合理能夠檢討要檢討而不是都聽業者講\n\n10:59.161 --> 11:13.841\n是的我们找过业者我们会再请他提供资料我们再去请他提供他成本分析资料我们再跟大家来要求好那是不是也可以提供给本席以及我们交通委员会的委员来做之后问证的参考\n\n11:14.201 --> 11:38.377\n好那監討的報告我會提給召委跟交通委員會好不涉及商務機密的部分提供那並且讓我們知道也請NCC還是要妥善因為既然一信是一個未來趨勢我們也希望是說節能減淡或說把實體的訊卡如果說未來的趨勢是這個樣子那該應該要超前部署要超前部署好嗎好沒問題謝謝好謝謝召委好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.54,"end":22.58,"text":"好主席謝謝麻煩請陳代理主委主委謝謝好代理主委早代理主委上禮拜一跟三我們四位NCC被提名人包括主委副主委以及兩位委員的審查過程有沒有關注有有關注喔是那有全程的看他們的一個答詢"},{"start":23.485,"end":52.677,"text":"除了部分時間在開會之外我都有在看了解好那有沒有看到注意到我們開宗明義都請教四位委員一個問題啊什麼時候接受行政院院長的徵詢有這個問題什麼時候主委是什麼時候接受行政院長的徵詢跟跟專委報告這部分主委提名人什麼時候被徵詢這個不在我的掌握範圍不是你不是說都有看嗎他們都公開的答詢啊他們"},{"start":53.803,"end":81.451,"text":"所以你有看但是他們答詢的內容你沒有記住有人說是五月啊五月 好 主委是五月五號被徵詢啊他到最後他自己講說五月被徵詢但他說徵詢了兩次來 那副主委什麼時候被徵詢這部分他好像講的又比較精準一點好像是好像是四月份四月 好 那黃薇薇委員勒"},{"start":83.008,"end":104.81,"text":"這部分剛好我在開會 好 那個下午的羅委員他說什麼時候被徵詢去年11月所以四位委員都講是最晚是五月被徵詢就已經答應說要出任NCC委員那請教這一次新的NCC委員名單什麼時候送出來"},{"start":109.071,"end":120.382,"text":"應該7月30 7月31就剛好就是滿一年嘛去年的731上一任四位委員到期那今年731剛好週年啊行政院長才把名單送出來"},{"start":121.516,"end":147.257,"text":"那會不會覺得很奇怪五月那時候我們還有交通文化還有開會喔本席也在這邊自己一直救教我就說有沒有跟行政院長你也講啊這不是你的權責所以我不怪你但是我說既然現在一直講說NCC只剩下三位委員然後有些業務沒有辦法運作換照時間到了要換照沒有辦法做然後一直跟我們講是說哇視聽大眾的權益很重要"},{"start":148.118,"end":175.654,"text":"那結果千呼萬喚使出來是四位委員最晚一位都是五月就被徵詢並且答應了結果到731才送出名單為什麼你會不會覺得你自己很孤單你代理主委結果沒想到行政院長沒有聽到我們NCC所有業務的需求明明已經好了然後壓著名單不送出來我們立法院要審查都沒有辦法審查"},{"start":177.932,"end":189.025,"text":"主委認為這樣合適嗎抱歉這部分我沒辦法來你沒有辦法批評 你沒有辦法評論這是行政院長對 我的立場是我沒辦法評論擺爛嘛"},{"start":193.659,"end":218.44,"text":"實在話就擺爛了而且還要騙國人講是說有哪一位委員有什麼職涯生涯規劃但是我們問完了四位委員都說沒有啊我姑且相信四位委員在這邊他們是被提名的身份他們在國會殿堂向國人跟立法委員說明他們應該要講實話那只有一個人沒有講實話就行政院啊就卓榮泰啊那到底七三一以前在幹嘛"},{"start":220.08,"end":246.15,"text":"不願意依法行政就是現在國家最大的悲哀但是程序處理這樣子沒有依法行政內容有委員還持續堅持說新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎這是我詢問我就直接請教說是不是你到目前為止都還堅持你當初講新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎他答是請教代理主委"},{"start":247.148,"end":273.401,"text":"你有辦法未來如果說這樣的委員你有辦法跟他共事嗎你覺得他的理念新聞自由是什麼能吃嗎跟你的理念一樣嗎兩個部分回答 第一部分是每個人都有言論自由這是第一點 第二點我現在沒有辦法就未來還沒發生的情形來回答是 所以你已經回答第一個是每個人都有言論自由嘛言論自由 新聞自由是每個人的普世價值嘛"},{"start":274.241,"end":293.71,"text":"你沒有 我不尊重你說話的內容但我適時捍衛你的言論自由這就是民主法治國家可是他居然直接踐踏新聞自由到這種程度新聞自由是什麼 能吃嗎當然不能吃啊 但新聞自由是我們共同要努力捍衛的啊不是嗎"},{"start":297.537,"end":308.412,"text":"不要只是微微點頭啦可以回答是是是那個朝偉的當然是普世價值當然是新聞自由大家都來推崇大家都來當作一個閨蜜那李主委所以我"},{"start":309.967,"end":330.739,"text":"講完上個禮拜我們的答詢四位委員我想我跟廖先祥委員還有我們好幾位委員其實都很用心我們四位委員都有答詢或是說有一些反正該答詢我們都要答詢我們問得很清楚那接下來送出交通委員會大院會做投票我想我們也會本於民意代表的職責"},{"start":332.133,"end":358.437,"text":"合適我們不會刻意阻攔但如果不合適沒有辦法堅守新聞自由言論自由行政中立我們也絕對不會放水那可能也要請我們代理主委做好持續代理的工作心理準備做最壞的打算最好的準備但重點是NCC的業務不能就像如同您剛剛有報告的地方一樣該做的要做"},{"start":359.427,"end":383.268,"text":"跟召委報告NC委員組成是多元我們希望越多元的組成對這個會的當然就是多元但是絕對不是刻意放水所以我剛提了嘛就如果說他答詢的時候都在講這種偏薄的話行政不中立的話我們也沒有辦法接受啊來代理主委我想再請教一個比較實務面的問題喔e-sync"},{"start":384.158,"end":408.646,"text":"的業務現在手機大家仍然使用那有一個是SIM卡的部分看從2014年2015年開始科技進步有eSIM出來其實他就是實體的SIM卡變成是線上的SIM卡可是在國外行之有年的部分現在要換eSIM居然是每一次更換要被系統業者收取300元的作業費設定費"},{"start":410.655,"end":426.438,"text":"是 跟周浩報告 周偉剛剛講的確實沒錯這個一信就是實體卡變成一個軟體設定的分位的一些卡其實在本國主要原因是因為要做身分確認 做打架至於收費的部分 其實我換個角度來看"},{"start":427.279,"end":450.98,"text":"基本情況下都不收費因為我們問過我們也跟業者來要求過過去一年內業者手上的一線的客戶大概有九成都其實都沒有收費的包括首次申辦從實體卡變成一線卡變成一線的都沒有收費送修的也沒有 專案購的也沒有VIP或老客戶也沒有所以基本上大部分都九成的用戶其實都不會收費"},{"start":451.943,"end":473.595,"text":"但你說也不用那麼急著幫業者講話本席先聽完本席的問題您再回答我只想請教我們進來NCC去了解那有沒有詢問我沒有說一定不收費該合理的成本要cover也不能一定讓業者吸收但是我要問的是300元合不合理因為300元等於是10塊美金嘛"},{"start":474.622,"end":489.573,"text":"那本席也查了有在國外譬如說美國的部分也有他們有一些方案等等的他們有收取這個手續費但我現在想問的是當現在很多民眾看到說每一次手機轉換異性都要收300元"},{"start":490.814,"end":511.124,"text":"即便是我已經換了eSIM但我要換新的手機我要再付300元可是跟SIM卡不同的是SIM卡只要我有一張實體的SIM卡我買新手機我直接把SIM卡拔下來放到新的手機裡面就可以換了不用任何成本所以我想問的是在一定的規模裡面eSIM一直收300元到底合不合理"},{"start":511.624,"end":521.955,"text":"或是我們NCC了解說現在系統業者去轉換300元這一個價格是剛好符合成本還是其實有多收還是業者賠本在做"},{"start":523.437,"end":543.474,"text":"說明一下是 那我們會我們已經持續跟業者來溝通我們希望說能夠適當的反映成本那當然陳主剛剛在我提到所以現在先讓我了解一下我們有沒有去理解現在300元到底是業者是賠本做可能也許成本要600他收300是賠本300啊還是說他成本只要150他收300是賺150"},{"start":546.827,"end":566.256,"text":"他的成本其實包括付給GSMA這個平台這個醫診平台的費用所以主委因為你是主管機關你有公權力我們民意代表我們也是聽民眾的澄清跟反應那我們也沒有辦法理解到底是300元是高低還是剛好這個成本就像之前有一個750元之亂"},{"start":568.217,"end":593.22,"text":"人家也會覺得是說你要收取審查費啊可是你一視同仁全都收750那有人只是譬如說我只是買網購一個300塊的無線滑鼠我要付750的設定費審查費跟我網購一個3萬塊的這個無線通訊軟體無線通訊設備要收750的審查費那就不合理也因此才會有那時候的750之亂嘛"},{"start":594.52,"end":609.967,"text":"是 簡單跟詹委員回報就是因為所謂的異性的量越來越多我們也跟業者溝通結果是認為說所以他的量提升他成本分攤的可以下降這個我相信未來是有機會300塊會往下調對 所以量要多大300塊往下調"},{"start":612.314,"end":637.869,"text":"他們都是實體卡跟依信的部分它到達一定的業者告訴我們說隨著量的提升它成本一定攤銷上一定會下降的我們有跟業者溝通希望近期能夠反映出來主委 是說實在話商務模式如果說你都是聽業者講我們沒有自己去稍微算一下的話業者100年都會跟你講說他永遠是虧錢"},{"start":639.457,"end":657.152,"text":"是的一百年他都跟你講是說他現在是所以本席現在才會提出來講是說是不是能夠請NCG去了解到底他現在是成本符不符合比例以及300元的一個設定合不合理能夠檢討要檢討而不是都聽業者講"},{"start":659.161,"end":673.841,"text":"是的 我们找过业者我们会再请他提供资料我们再去请他提供他成本分析资料我们再跟大家来要求好 那是不是也可以提供给本席以及我们交通委员会的委员来做之后问证的参考"},{"start":674.201,"end":698.377,"text":"好那監討的報告我會提給召委跟交通委員會好不涉及商務機密的部分提供那並且讓我們知道也請NCC還是要妥善因為既然一信是一個未來趨勢我們也希望是說節能減淡或說把實體的訊卡如果說未來的趨勢是這個樣子那該應該要超前部署要超前部署好嗎好沒問題謝謝好謝謝召委好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":88,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時19分）主席謝謝。麻煩請陳代理主委。"],["主席：主委，謝謝。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：召委早。"],["洪委員孟楷：代理主委早。上禮拜一跟三，四位NCC被提名人，包括主委、副主委以及兩位委員的審查過程有沒有關注？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有。"],["洪委員孟楷：有關注？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：有全程看他們的答詢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：除了部分時間在開會之外，我都有在看。"],["洪委員孟楷：了解。有沒有注意到我們開宗明義都請教四位被提名人一個問題：什麼時候接受行政院院長的徵詢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有，這個問題我有看到。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委是什麼時候接受行政院長的徵詢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟召委報告，有關主委被提名人什麼時候被徵詢，這不在我的掌握範圍內。"],["洪委員孟楷：不是，你不是說都有看嗎，他們都公開答詢了啊！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：喔，他們……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你有看，但是他們答詢的內容你沒有記住？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有，有人說是5月啊……"],["洪委員孟楷：5月？好，主委是5月5號被徵詢的，到最後他自己講說5月被徵詢，但他說徵詢了兩次。副主委什麼時候被徵詢的？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這部分他好像講的又比較精準一點，好像是4月份。"],["洪委員孟楷：4月？那黃葳威委員呢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這部分剛好我在開會，我就沒有看到。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，那下午的羅委員，他說什麼時候被徵詢？去年11月。所以4位委員所講的，最晚是5月被徵詢，就已經答應要出任NCC委員。請教這一次新的NCC委員名單什麼時候送出來的？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：應該是7月31號。"],["洪委員孟楷：7月31號，剛好就是滿一年嘛！去年的7∕31上一任4位委員任期到期，今年7∕31剛好週年，行政院長才把名單送出來，會不會覺得很奇怪？5月那時候我們交通委員會還有開會，本席也在這邊一直就教，詢問有沒有跟行政院長……你也講這不是你的權責，所以我不怪你，但是我說既然現在一直講NCC只剩下3位委員，因此有些業務沒有辦法運作，包括時間到了要換照也沒有辦法做，然後又一直跟我們說視聽大眾的權益很重要，結果千呼萬喚始出來，但4位委員最晚一位也在5月就被徵詢並且答應了，結果到7∕31才送出名單，為什麼？你會不會覺得你自己很孤單？你代理主委，結果沒想到行政院長沒有聽到NCC所有業務的需求，明明已經好了，然後壓著名單不送出來，我們立法院要審查都沒有辦法審查。主委認為這樣合適嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：抱歉，這部分我沒辦法回答。"],["洪委員孟楷：你沒有辦法批評、你沒有辦法評論，這是行政院長的……"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，我的立場是我沒辦法評論。"],["洪委員孟楷：擺爛嘛！實在話就擺爛啊！而且還要騙國人有哪一位委員有什麼職涯、生涯規劃，但是我們問了4位委員都說沒有啊！我姑且相信4位委員，在這邊他們是被提名人的身分，他們在國會殿堂向國人跟立法委員說明，他們應該要講實話，那只有一個人沒有講實話，就行政院啊！就卓榮泰啊！到底7∕31以前在幹嘛？不願意依法行政就是現在國家最大的悲哀！程序處理成這樣子，沒有依法行政。","至於內容的部分，有委員還持續堅持新聞自由是什麼、能吃嗎？我詢問的時候就直接請教是不是到目前為止都還堅持當初講新聞自由是什麼、能吃嗎？他答「是」。請教代理主委，未來如果這樣的委員進入NCC，你有辦法跟他共事嗎？你覺得他的理念──新聞自由是什麼、能吃嗎？跟你的理念一樣嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：兩個部分回答，第一個部分是每個人都有言論自由，這是第一點。第二點，我現在沒有辦法就未來還沒發生的情形來回答。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以你已經回答了，第一個是每個人都有言論自由嘛，言論自由、新聞自由是每個人的普世價值嘛，我不尊重你說話的內容，但我誓死捍衛你的言論自由，這就是民主法治國家，可是他居然直接踐踏新聞自由到這種程度，新聞自由是什麼、能吃嗎？當然不能吃啊！但新聞自由是我們共同要努力捍衛的啊，不是嗎？不要只是微微點頭啦，可以回答。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是、是、是，召委，這當然是普世價值，新聞自由是大家都推崇的，大家也都當作一個圭臬。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，代理主委，我講完上個禮拜我們的答詢，針對4位委員，我跟廖先翔委員還有好幾位委員其實都很用心，對於4位委員我們都有答詢，或者說有一些……反正該答詢我們都要答詢，我們問得很清楚，接下來送出交通委員會，大院會做投票，我想我們會本於民意代表的職責，合適的我們不會刻意阻攔，但如果不合適的，沒有辦法堅守新聞自由、言論自由、行政中立的，我們也絕對不會放水。可能也要請我們代理主委做好持續代理工作的心理準備，做最壞的打算、最好的準備，但重點是NCC的業務不能……就如同您剛剛報告的一樣，該做的要做。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟召委報告，NCC委員的組成是多元的，我們希望越多元的組成，這樣對這個會的運作會更好。"],["洪委員孟楷：當然是希望多元，但絕對不是刻意放水，所以我剛提了嘛，如果他答詢的時候都在講這種偏頗的話、行政不中立的話，我們也沒有辦法接受啊！","代理主委，我想再請教一個比較實務面的問題，就是eSIM的業務，現在手機是人人都在使用，有一個是SIM卡的部分，但從2014年、2015年開始，科技進步了，有eSIM出來，其實它就是從實體的SIM卡變成是線上的SIM卡啦，這是在國外行之有年的東西，但現在我們國內的eSIM居然是每一次更換就要被系統業者收取300元的作業費、設定費。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是啊，跟召委報告，召委剛剛講的確實沒錯，這個eSIM就是實體卡變成一個軟體設定的分位的一個卡。其實在本國主要原因是因為要做身分確認、要做打詐，至於收費的部分，其實換個角度來看，基本情況下都不收費，因為我們問過並且也跟業者要求過，過去一年內，業者手上的eSIM客戶大概有九成其實都是沒有收費的，包括首次申辦從實體卡變成eSIM卡都沒有收費，送修的也沒有，專案購的也沒有，VIP或老客戶也沒有，所以基本上高達九成的用戶其實都不會被收費。"],["洪委員孟楷：代理主委，不用那麼急著幫業者講話，先聽完本席的問題，您再回答。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：我只是想請教，既然NCC有去了解，有沒有詢問……我沒有說一定不收費，合理的成本要cover，也不能一定要讓業者吸收，但是我要問的是300元合不合理？因為300元等於是10塊美金嘛，本席也查了國外的情況，譬如在美國的部分，他們也有一些方案等等是有收取手續費。我現在想問的是，現在很多民眾看到每一次手機轉換eSIM都要收300元，即便是我已經換了eSIM，但我要換新的手機還要再付300元，它跟SIM卡不同的是，只要我有一張實體的SIM卡，我買新手機之後，我直接把SIM卡拔下來放到新手機裡面就可以了，不用任何成本。所以我想問的是，在一定的規模裡面，eSIM一直收300元到底合不合理？或是就NCC的了解，現在系統業者去轉換，300元這個價格是剛好符合成本、還是有多收，還是業者賠本在做？請說明一下。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，我們已經持續跟業者溝通，也希望能夠適當的反映成本，當然誠如剛剛召委所提到的……"],["洪委員孟楷：先讓我了解一下，你們有沒有去理解現在收300元到底業者是賠本做？可能也許成本要600元，他收300元是賠本300元啊；還是成本只要150元，收300元是賺150元？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這個成本其實包括付給GSMA這個eSIM平臺的費用，所以……"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，因為你是主管機關，你有公權力，我們民意代表只是聽到民眾的陳情跟反映，我們沒有辦法去了解到底這300元跟成本相比是高、低，還是剛好。就像之前有一個「750之亂」嘛！人家也會覺得你要收取審查費，可是你一視同仁全都收750元是否合理？我可能只是網購一個300元的無線滑鼠就要付750元的審查費，網購一個3萬元的無線通訊設備也收750元的審查費，這就不合理嘛！也因此才會有那時候的「750之亂」嘛！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，簡單跟召委回報，因為所謂eSIM的量越來越多，我們也有跟業者溝通，認為既然量有提升，分攤後成本可以下降，所以我相信未來是有機會從300元往下調的。"],["洪委員孟楷：對，請問量要多大才能從300元往下調？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：就是實體卡跟eSIM的部分到達一定的……業者告訴我們，隨著量的提升，成本攤銷、一定會下降的，我們有跟業者溝通，希望近期能夠反映出來。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，說實在話，商務模式，如果你都是聽業者講，沒有自己去稍微算一下的話，業者100年都會跟你講他永遠是虧錢的！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是的，召委……"],["洪委員孟楷：100年都會跟你講現在是虧錢的，所以本席現在才會提出來，是不是能夠請NCC去了解一下，到底現在收取的費用與成本相比符不符合比例？以及300元的設定費合不合理？能夠檢討的要檢討，而不是都聽業者講。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是的，我們有找過業者，我們會再請他們提供成本分析資料，之後再跟他們來要求。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，是不是也可以提供給本席以及我們交通委員會的委員作為之後問政的參考？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，檢討報告我會提給召委跟交通委員會。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，不涉及商務機密的部分提供，並且讓我們知道，也請NCC還是要妥善處理，既然eSIM是一個未來的趨勢，把實體的SIM卡……我們也希望能節能減碳，如果未來的趨勢是這個樣子，應該要超前部署的就要超前部署，好嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，沒問題。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。","繼續請李昆澤委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-4","speakers":["洪孟楷","李昆澤","黃健豪","蔡其昌","陳素月","林俊憲","魯明哲","徐富癸","陳雪生","廖先翔","何欣純","賴士葆","黃國昌","邱若華","游顥","葉元之","林國成","許智傑"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-27"],"gazette_id":"1149001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、處理113\n年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基金專題\n報告案計1案","agenda_id":"1149001_00001"}}}