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00:00:38,606\n那個主委好剛剛其實在我們學生委員在詢問的時候有提到你們剛剛有說相關的訴訟你們不繼續打下去可能怕會被監察院的糾正對不對那我想請問一下那針對我們針對中天的這個相關的許多的訴訟那我們有許多的敗訴或者是甚至是定驗的案件監察院有沒有對你們提出任何的一個糾正\n\n3\n00:00:40,055 --> 00:00:56,622\n之前有调查报告大概结论两点第一个就是说我们类似这种案件必须要多元审慎这是第一点第二点相关的程序还是要力求符合程序正义\n\n4\n00:00:57,409 --> 00:01:22,586\n是啊所以監察院也認為說我們在過去的一些裁罰可能過程中不夠嚴謹所以說導致了這樣子的一個結果他是提醒對那既然他們都有這樣子的提醒了那我們的NCC現在還是堅持要把一些相關的訴訟打完而不是去重新的檢視哪一些可能是有敗訴的可能而去做相關的一個訴訟的可能終止等等之類的\n\n5\n00:01:23,886 --> 00:01:37,794\n跟委員報告那我們既有的七件的敗訴我們會從裡頭來檢討說當初這個處分是哪一部分環節是在法院比較沒有認可那一塊我們會作為未來的相關業務商討論處理後續類似的處分案做一些來\n\n6\n00:01:42,176 --> 00:02:05,296\n那也就是過去的機制啦過去的機制有一些部分應該是客觀上應該有一些失靈來導致這樣子的一個結果那我們怎麼樣子從過去的機制去我們一定要跳出過去的機制跟我們的框架或是引入一些更多元的外界的意見來做我們過去一些案件裁罰是否要繼續打下去的一個基準否則今天我們七件可能定業了\n\n7\n00:02:05,896 --> 00:02:27,473\n那後續我們也可以預判可能就不只七件嘛可能會有其他案數也說幾件那其實這部分都是對於人民權利的一個侵害甚至是對言論自由的一個侵害或者是司法資源的一個浪費其實都可以在我們NCC自己本身去做自我檢討的部分其實都可以去做避免好不好那再麻煩我們NCC對自由自我的檢視再多加強一些\n\n8\n00:02:27,913 --> 00:02:54,383\n是我們會持續進行其實也跟委員報告在行政院所屬各個部會這個敗訴的一些比例我們其實算是以越少越高的話我們算是前段班了好那接下來我想請問主委OTT的這個案子那其實有限電視這個檢線槽嘛這個大勢不可逆啦就有點像鐵達尼號撞到冰山了你要叫他重新扶起來應該不太可能了最終的結果\n\n9\n00:02:55,526 --> 00:03:09,825\n剪線槽應該會持續的繼續只是說他到底會到哪時候結束這樣子那我想確認一下有線電視我們目前面對有線電視這個剪線槽我們目前的政策\n\n10\n00:03:10,646 --> 00:03:30,819\n是要讓它轉型力挽狂瀾讓他們重新的在國內的收視權益上面去做一個轉型然後讓這些業者都有繼續生存下去的機會跟觀眾有閱讀的一個機會還是說我們就是這樣子靜靜的看著它減得越來越多越來越多越來越多這樣子\n\n11\n00:03:32,321 --> 00:03:46,880\n當然是委員所講的前半部我們要把它轉型鼓勵它朝向寬頻那些聯合綜合提供綜合型的一些服務寬頻上網聚焦智慧型聚焦跟社區的一些相關的應用等等\n\n12\n00:03:47,523 --> 00:04:07,165\n那剪線草主委你認為最大的問題在哪邊最大的問題在哪邊我想請教的是節目本身的一些問題或者是說剛剛你有提到你可能現在回家大中看的節目是體育節目其實我也是因為體育節目它有一個即時性的效果它可能比較沒有辦法後續做回放的那種感覺是不一樣的\n\n13\n00:04:08,390 --> 00:04:36,599\n那你會認為說為什麼我們現在有線電視沒有辦法去跟ODT的平台去做競爭那最大的問題在哪一邊就是委員所提到的就是年輕人喜歡看串流視訊的原因就是他可以選擇他方便的時間來收看那有線電視是排播是線性頻道這個有些續期節目一定的時間一定的播出這個對大部分年輕人其實是比較沒有辦法配合得上所以一般年輕人其實還是\n\n14\n00:04:37,799 --> 00:04:52,994\n比較慢慢的比較不能夠接受有線電視但是如果是年長者或者其他類似的其實他還是有一定的收視族群其實很多長輩現在在看電視他變成一個心理的依靠而已他有時候在看也不是在看那個節目你知道嗎\n\n15\n00:04:54,295 --> 00:05:21,723\n看著陪伴他有個聲音陪伴他而已像有時候晚上這個就喜歡聽有些人就喜歡聽一些聲音然後入睡有時候功能就變得部分的功能變成這樣子那請教主委你知道最近這個在OTT上面有一個YouTube上面有一個外國人做的頻道叫做中文怪物你有聽過嗎沒有你沒聽過那其實他算是最近還滿火紅的一個節目那他有點\n\n16\n00:05:24,144 --> 00:05:49,318\n其實就是說在年輕人這一塊或者社會這一塊對他的評價是非常高的那有很多人都會拿中文怪物來跟國內的綜藝節目來做一個對比但你既然沒有看過我有點不知道怎麼問你會不會認為說我們現在的國內的這個戲劇頻道的一個品質可能已經比較不符合我們社會的一些期待\n\n17\n00:05:51,716 --> 00:06:02,844\n兩個部分我覺得國內的短短聚集都是短極速的那個品質其實是有待提升的少部分其實也有對外輸出海外那整體而言那\n\n18\n00:06:04,966 --> 00:06:32,242\n陪伴長者的很多其實都是比較多的是國外節目比例比較高這一塊的部分未來其實節目品質的一些提升我們在憑藉換照裡頭其實都有在把關如果它的自製率星波率其實都有一定的要求當然這個市場機制如果它品質不夠好市場的力量會給它做最後的審判\n\n19\n00:06:32,918 --> 00:06:54,234\n所以原生OTD串起最主要兩個原因一個就是剛剛講的收視的方便那另外一個就是節目品質的一些問題那這兩個單就這兩個部分那第一個收視的方便我們可能怎麼樣可以利用現有的有線電視的一個傳統的運作的模式有要針對這個部分去做轉型嗎協助業者去做轉型\n\n20\n00:06:55,079 --> 00:07:22,432\n兩個部分第一個是跟委員報告就是我們鼓勵有線電視業者跟OTTV來合作其實大部分的SO都已經有這麼合作第二部分跟委員報告大概先前也有委員在質疑我提出這個美國的例子美國的有線電視其實它已經結合的手機當然可以看到節目大家手機上看到節目不一定是非線性的這個OTTV不一定是傳流視訊也有線性的節目可以看所以這一塊其實未來我們有線電視業者其實可以參考那我們有在\n\n21\n00:07:23,152 --> 00:07:50,829\n推動這件事情嗎就是用手機看有線電視這件事情我們知道有些業者早期是有在規劃那目前他可能還在測水溫那未來是不是看到那在法規上面有什麼是需要去做突破的嗎這一塊其實是沒有是可以的他們現在就可以做了所以只要是業者願意就是我們NCC這邊沒有任何的法規的一個限制對目前這一塊這個跨網際網路跨IP這塊提供的這一塊其實是沒有的\n\n22\n00:07:51,449 --> 00:08:16,940\n那在電視節目品質這一塊其實就是雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題你要有高的收視率那可能業者才有收益那業者有收益那才會比較有一個好的一個投入的成本那去得到去做出一個好的一個節目讓我們觀眾去喜歡那這件事情剛剛主委有講到就是針對評鑑這件事情我們的運作的流程大概是怎麼樣\n\n23\n00:08:19,108 --> 00:08:41,438\n有限電視的憑借其實就是類似的其中來考核的概念我們會提出他營運計畫的進行情形還有他這段期間被何處的情況還有他財務的一些目前的情形報給我們我們會看他們的結果來做一些相關的要求有些會付款憑借是不會但是有些會做行政指導\n\n24\n00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:51,653\n換照的時候就會有進一步那我們曾經有類似中天這樣子的經驗然後去針對可能考評比較不好的一個業者去給他停權過嗎有過嗎\n\n25\n00:08:53,694 --> 00:09:09,844\n有線電視大概只有一家是他們財務上這個董事長把這個收視費這個所以沒有因為節目的品質的問題節目品質可能都是指導的原則節目品質屬於頻道業者那現在講有線電視有線電視的話大概發生過就是有發臨照給他就是他財務上財務紀律不好這塊有在處理\n\n26\n00:09:16,468 --> 00:09:44,808\n我覺得這個還是要必須要趕快做一個轉型因為當國內我擔心的是國內的有線電視業者的收視戶數越來越低的時候其實我們現在看到的很多像我們很多年輕人都是使用OTT在看一些其實都是國外主導的一些評論其實我們已經可以看到國外的OTT業者他們其實有一些甚至在製作節目的時候其實有很明顯的已經把他們政治的傾向\n\n27\n00:09:45,889 --> 00:10:05,278\n注入到他們的節目當中甚至可能在川普在競選總統的時候可以看到有一些特定的平台他們所製作的節目其實都是有特定的政治的立場那因為可能台灣跟他們沒有政治的關係或者是也不是他們所關注的所以這一部分還沒有把手伸進來我們台灣這一邊但是我覺得這個未來因為我們現在目前對OTT的監管目前你們應該也是目前您說也全球沒有針對OTT的監管具有制定特別的法律嘛\n\n28\n00:10:14,802 --> 00:10:37,889\n但是未來我覺得還是要防範相關的一些意識形態透過OTT因為OTT它現在都是比較單獨的不像我們電視有線節目它是多元的它可能有五六十台七八十台一百多台但是OTT的業者其實是幾家媒體的巨獸去掌握的那他們很容易利用他們的意識形態去影響他們所要所宣傳的是一件事情所以說我覺得維持國內的有線電視業者的轉型讓他們能夠繼續的維持多元的\n\n29\n00:10:43,295 --> 00:10:51,260\n資訊的傳播對於我們的言論自由或者是我們思想自由是相對來說更重要的一件事情以上再麻煩我們主委好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝我們廖教委謝謝主委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3452\t5637\t謝謝主席麻煩請我們陳主委主委請\n12254\t38606\t那個主委好剛剛其實在我們學生委員在詢問的時候有提到你們剛剛有說相關的訴訟你們不繼續打下去可能怕會被監察院的糾正對不對那我想請問一下那針對我們針對中天的這個相關的許多的訴訟那我們有許多的敗訴或者是甚至是定驗的案件監察院有沒有對你們提出任何的一個糾正\n40055\t56622\t之前有调查报告大概结论两点第一个就是说我们类似这种案件必须要多元审慎这是第一点第二点相关的程序还是要力求符合程序正义\n57409\t82586\t是啊 所以監察院也認為說我們在過去的一些裁罰可能過程中不夠嚴謹所以說導致了這樣子的一個結果他是提醒 對那既然他們都有這樣子的提醒了那我們的NCC現在還是堅持要把一些相關的訴訟打完而不是去重新的檢視哪一些可能是有敗訴的可能而去做相關的一個訴訟的可能終止等等之類的\n83886\t97794\t跟委員報告那我們既有的七件的敗訴我們會從裡頭來檢討說當初這個處分是哪一部分環節是在法院比較沒有認可那一塊我們會作為未來的相關業務商討論處理後續類似的處分案做一些來\n102176\t125296\t那也就是過去的機制啦過去的機制有一些部分應該是客觀上應該有一些失靈來導致這樣子的一個結果那我們怎麼樣子從過去的機制去我們一定要跳出過去的機制跟我們的框架或是引入一些更多元的外界的意見來做我們過去一些案件裁罰是否要繼續打下去的一個基準否則今天我們七件可能定業了\n125896\t147473\t那後續我們也可以預判可能就不只七件嘛可能會有其他案數也說幾件那其實這部分都是對於人民權利的一個侵害甚至是對言論自由的一個侵害或者是司法資源的一個浪費其實都可以在我們NCC自己本身去做自我檢討的部分其實都可以去做避免好不好那再麻煩我們NCC對自由自我的檢視再多加強一些\n147913\t174383\t是 我們會持續進行 其實也跟委員報告在行政院所屬各個部會這個敗訴的一些比例 我們其實算是以越少越高的話 我們算是前段班了好 那接下來我想請問主委OTT的這個案子那其實有限電視這個檢線槽嘛這個大勢不可逆啦 就有點像鐵達尼號撞到冰山了你要叫他重新扶起來 應該不太可能了 最終的結果\n175526\t189825\t剪線槽應該會持續的繼續只是說他到底會到哪時候結束這樣子那我想確認一下有線電視我們目前面對有線電視這個剪線槽我們目前的政策\n190646\t210819\t是要讓它轉型 力挽狂瀾讓他們重新的在國內的收視權益上面去做一個轉型然後讓這些業者都有繼續生存下去的機會跟觀眾有閱讀的一個機會還是說我們就是這樣子靜靜的看著它減得越來越多 越來越多 越來越多這樣子\n212321\t226880\t當然是委員所講的前半部我們要把它轉型鼓勵它朝向寬頻那些聯合綜合提供綜合型的一些服務寬頻上網聚焦智慧型聚焦跟社區的一些相關的應用等等\n227523\t247165\t那剪線草主委你認為最大的問題在哪邊最大的問題在哪邊我想請教的是節目本身的一些問題或者是說剛剛你有提到你可能現在回家大中看的節目是體育節目其實我也是因為體育節目它有一個即時性的效果它可能比較沒有辦法後續做回放的那種感覺是不一樣的\n248390\t276599\t那你會認為說為什麼我們現在有線電視沒有辦法去跟ODT的平台去做競爭那最大的問題在哪一邊就是委員所提到的就是年輕人喜歡看串流視訊的原因就是他可以選擇他方便的時間來收看那有線電視是排播是線性頻道這個有些續期節目一定的時間一定的播出這個對大部分年輕人其實是比較沒有辦法配合得上所以一般年輕人其實還是\n277799\t292994\t比較慢慢的比較不能夠接受有線電視但是如果是年長者或者其他類似的其實他還是有一定的收視族群其實很多長輩現在在看電視他變成一個心理的依靠而已他有時候在看也不是在看那個節目你知道嗎\n294295\t321723\t看著陪伴他有個聲音陪伴他而已像有時候晚上這個就喜歡聽有些人就喜歡聽一些聲音然後入睡有時候功能就變得部分的功能變成這樣子那請教主委你知道最近這個在OTT上面有一個YouTube上面有一個外國人做的頻道叫做中文怪物你有聽過嗎沒有你沒聽過那其實他算是最近還滿火紅的一個節目那他有點\n324144\t349318\t其實就是說在年輕人這一塊或者社會這一塊對他的評價是非常高的那有很多人都會拿中文怪物來跟國內的綜藝節目來做一個對比但你既然沒有看過我有點不知道怎麼問你會不會認為說我們現在的國內的這個戲劇頻道的一個品質可能已經比較不符合我們社會的一些期待\n351716\t362844\t兩個部分我覺得國內的短短聚集都是短極速的那個品質其實是有待提升的少部分其實也有對外輸出海外那整體而言那\n364966\t392242\t陪伴長者的很多其實都是比較多的是國外節目比例比較高這一塊的部分未來其實節目品質的一些提升我們在憑藉換照裡頭其實都有在把關如果它的自製率 星波率其實都有一定的要求當然這個市場機制如果它品質不夠好市場的力量會給它做最後的審判\n392918\t414234\t所以原生OTD串起最主要兩個原因一個就是剛剛講的收視的方便那另外一個就是節目品質的一些問題那這兩個單就這兩個部分那第一個收視的方便我們可能怎麼樣可以利用現有的有線電視的一個傳統的運作的模式有要針對這個部分去做轉型嗎協助業者去做轉型\n415079\t442432\t兩個部分第一個是跟委員報告就是我們鼓勵有線電視業者跟OTTV來合作其實大部分的SO都已經有這麼合作第二部分跟委員報告大概先前也有委員在質疑我提出這個美國的例子美國的有線電視其實它已經結合的手機當然可以看到節目大家手機上看到節目不一定是非線性的這個OTTV不一定是傳流視訊也有線性的節目可以看所以這一塊其實未來我們有線電視業者其實可以參考那我們有在\n443152\t470829\t推動這件事情嗎就是用手機看有線電視這件事情我們知道有些業者早期是有在規劃那目前他可能還在測水溫那未來是不是看到那在法規上面有什麼是需要去做突破的嗎這一塊其實是沒有是可以的他們現在就可以做了所以只要是業者願意就是我們NCC這邊沒有任何的法規的一個限制對目前這一塊這個跨網際網路跨IP這塊提供的這一塊其實是沒有的\n471449\t496940\t那在電視節目品質這一塊其實就是雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題你要有高的收視率那可能業者才有收益那業者有收益那才會比較有一個好的一個投入的成本那去得到去做出一個好的一個節目讓我們觀眾去喜歡那這件事情剛剛主委有講到就是針對評鑑這件事情我們的運作的流程大概是怎麼樣\n499108\t521438\t有限電視的憑借其實就是類似的其中來考核的概念我們會提出他營運計畫的進行情形還有他這段期間被何處的情況還有他財務的一些目前的情形報給我們我們會看他們的結果來做一些相關的要求有些會付款 憑借是不會但是有些會做行政指導\n522919\t531653\t換照的時候就會有進一步那我們曾經有類似中天這樣子的經驗然後去針對可能考評比較不好的一個業者去給他停權過嗎有過嗎\n533694\t549844\t有線電視大概只有一家是他們財務上這個董事長把這個收視費這個所以沒有因為節目的品質的問題節目品質可能都是指導的原則節目品質屬於頻道業者那現在講有線電視有線電視的話大概發生過就是有發臨照給他就是他財務上財務紀律不好這塊有在處理\n556468\t584808\t我覺得這個還是要必須要趕快做一個轉型因為當國內我擔心的是國內的有線電視業者的收視戶數越來越低的時候其實我們現在看到的很多像我們很多年輕人都是使用OTT在看一些其實都是國外主導的一些評論其實我們已經可以看到國外的OTT業者他們其實有一些甚至在製作節目的時候其實有很明顯的已經把他們政治的傾向\n585889\t605278\t注入到他們的節目當中甚至可能在川普在競選總統的時候可以看到有一些特定的平台他們所製作的節目其實都是有特定的政治的立場那因為可能台灣跟他們沒有政治的關係或者是也不是他們所關注的所以這一部分還沒有把手伸進來我們台灣這一邊但是我覺得這個未來因為我們現在目前對OTT的監管目前你們應該也是目前您說也全球沒有針對OTT的監管具有制定特別的法律嘛\n614802\t637889\t但是未來我覺得還是要防範相關的一些意識形態透過OTT因為OTT它現在都是比較單獨的不像我們電視有線節目它是多元的它可能有五六十台七八十台一百多台但是OTT的業者其實是幾家媒體的巨獸去掌握的那他們很容易利用他們的意識形態去影響他們所要所宣傳的是一件事情所以說我覺得維持國內的有線電視業者的轉型讓他們能夠繼續的維持多元的\n643295\t651260\t資訊的傳播對於我們的言論自由或者是我們思想自由是相對來說更重要的一件事情以上再麻煩我們主委好 謝謝委員謝謝好 謝謝我們廖教委謝謝主委\n","txt":"謝謝主席麻煩請我們陳主委主委請\n那個主委好剛剛其實在我們學生委員在詢問的時候有提到你們剛剛有說相關的訴訟你們不繼續打下去可能怕會被監察院的糾正對不對那我想請問一下那針對我們針對中天的這個相關的許多的訴訟那我們有許多的敗訴或者是甚至是定驗的案件監察院有沒有對你們提出任何的一個糾正\n之前有调查报告大概结论两点第一个就是说我们类似这种案件必须要多元审慎这是第一点第二点相关的程序还是要力求符合程序正义\n是啊 所以監察院也認為說我們在過去的一些裁罰可能過程中不夠嚴謹所以說導致了這樣子的一個結果他是提醒 對那既然他們都有這樣子的提醒了那我們的NCC現在還是堅持要把一些相關的訴訟打完而不是去重新的檢視哪一些可能是有敗訴的可能而去做相關的一個訴訟的可能終止等等之類的\n跟委員報告那我們既有的七件的敗訴我們會從裡頭來檢討說當初這個處分是哪一部分環節是在法院比較沒有認可那一塊我們會作為未來的相關業務商討論處理後續類似的處分案做一些來\n那也就是過去的機制啦過去的機制有一些部分應該是客觀上應該有一些失靈來導致這樣子的一個結果那我們怎麼樣子從過去的機制去我們一定要跳出過去的機制跟我們的框架或是引入一些更多元的外界的意見來做我們過去一些案件裁罰是否要繼續打下去的一個基準否則今天我們七件可能定業了\n那後續我們也可以預判可能就不只七件嘛可能會有其他案數也說幾件那其實這部分都是對於人民權利的一個侵害甚至是對言論自由的一個侵害或者是司法資源的一個浪費其實都可以在我們NCC自己本身去做自我檢討的部分其實都可以去做避免好不好那再麻煩我們NCC對自由自我的檢視再多加強一些\n是 我們會持續進行 其實也跟委員報告在行政院所屬各個部會這個敗訴的一些比例 我們其實算是以越少越高的話 我們算是前段班了好 那接下來我想請問主委OTT的這個案子那其實有限電視這個檢線槽嘛這個大勢不可逆啦 就有點像鐵達尼號撞到冰山了你要叫他重新扶起來 應該不太可能了 最終的結果\n剪線槽應該會持續的繼續只是說他到底會到哪時候結束這樣子那我想確認一下有線電視我們目前面對有線電視這個剪線槽我們目前的政策\n是要讓它轉型 力挽狂瀾讓他們重新的在國內的收視權益上面去做一個轉型然後讓這些業者都有繼續生存下去的機會跟觀眾有閱讀的一個機會還是說我們就是這樣子靜靜的看著它減得越來越多 越來越多 越來越多這樣子\n當然是委員所講的前半部我們要把它轉型鼓勵它朝向寬頻那些聯合綜合提供綜合型的一些服務寬頻上網聚焦智慧型聚焦跟社區的一些相關的應用等等\n那剪線草主委你認為最大的問題在哪邊最大的問題在哪邊我想請教的是節目本身的一些問題或者是說剛剛你有提到你可能現在回家大中看的節目是體育節目其實我也是因為體育節目它有一個即時性的效果它可能比較沒有辦法後續做回放的那種感覺是不一樣的\n那你會認為說為什麼我們現在有線電視沒有辦法去跟ODT的平台去做競爭那最大的問題在哪一邊就是委員所提到的就是年輕人喜歡看串流視訊的原因就是他可以選擇他方便的時間來收看那有線電視是排播是線性頻道這個有些續期節目一定的時間一定的播出這個對大部分年輕人其實是比較沒有辦法配合得上所以一般年輕人其實還是\n比較慢慢的比較不能夠接受有線電視但是如果是年長者或者其他類似的其實他還是有一定的收視族群其實很多長輩現在在看電視他變成一個心理的依靠而已他有時候在看也不是在看那個節目你知道嗎\n看著陪伴他有個聲音陪伴他而已像有時候晚上這個就喜歡聽有些人就喜歡聽一些聲音然後入睡有時候功能就變得部分的功能變成這樣子那請教主委你知道最近這個在OTT上面有一個YouTube上面有一個外國人做的頻道叫做中文怪物你有聽過嗎沒有你沒聽過那其實他算是最近還滿火紅的一個節目那他有點\n其實就是說在年輕人這一塊或者社會這一塊對他的評價是非常高的那有很多人都會拿中文怪物來跟國內的綜藝節目來做一個對比但你既然沒有看過我有點不知道怎麼問你會不會認為說我們現在的國內的這個戲劇頻道的一個品質可能已經比較不符合我們社會的一些期待\n兩個部分我覺得國內的短短聚集都是短極速的那個品質其實是有待提升的少部分其實也有對外輸出海外那整體而言那\n陪伴長者的很多其實都是比較多的是國外節目比例比較高這一塊的部分未來其實節目品質的一些提升我們在憑藉換照裡頭其實都有在把關如果它的自製率 星波率其實都有一定的要求當然這個市場機制如果它品質不夠好市場的力量會給它做最後的審判\n所以原生OTD串起最主要兩個原因一個就是剛剛講的收視的方便那另外一個就是節目品質的一些問題那這兩個單就這兩個部分那第一個收視的方便我們可能怎麼樣可以利用現有的有線電視的一個傳統的運作的模式有要針對這個部分去做轉型嗎協助業者去做轉型\n兩個部分第一個是跟委員報告就是我們鼓勵有線電視業者跟OTTV來合作其實大部分的SO都已經有這麼合作第二部分跟委員報告大概先前也有委員在質疑我提出這個美國的例子美國的有線電視其實它已經結合的手機當然可以看到節目大家手機上看到節目不一定是非線性的這個OTTV不一定是傳流視訊也有線性的節目可以看所以這一塊其實未來我們有線電視業者其實可以參考那我們有在\n推動這件事情嗎就是用手機看有線電視這件事情我們知道有些業者早期是有在規劃那目前他可能還在測水溫那未來是不是看到那在法規上面有什麼是需要去做突破的嗎這一塊其實是沒有是可以的他們現在就可以做了所以只要是業者願意就是我們NCC這邊沒有任何的法規的一個限制對目前這一塊這個跨網際網路跨IP這塊提供的這一塊其實是沒有的\n那在電視節目品質這一塊其實就是雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題你要有高的收視率那可能業者才有收益那業者有收益那才會比較有一個好的一個投入的成本那去得到去做出一個好的一個節目讓我們觀眾去喜歡那這件事情剛剛主委有講到就是針對評鑑這件事情我們的運作的流程大概是怎麼樣\n有限電視的憑借其實就是類似的其中來考核的概念我們會提出他營運計畫的進行情形還有他這段期間被何處的情況還有他財務的一些目前的情形報給我們我們會看他們的結果來做一些相關的要求有些會付款 憑借是不會但是有些會做行政指導\n換照的時候就會有進一步那我們曾經有類似中天這樣子的經驗然後去針對可能考評比較不好的一個業者去給他停權過嗎有過嗎\n有線電視大概只有一家是他們財務上這個董事長把這個收視費這個所以沒有因為節目的品質的問題節目品質可能都是指導的原則節目品質屬於頻道業者那現在講有線電視有線電視的話大概發生過就是有發臨照給他就是他財務上財務紀律不好這塊有在處理\n我覺得這個還是要必須要趕快做一個轉型因為當國內我擔心的是國內的有線電視業者的收視戶數越來越低的時候其實我們現在看到的很多像我們很多年輕人都是使用OTT在看一些其實都是國外主導的一些評論其實我們已經可以看到國外的OTT業者他們其實有一些甚至在製作節目的時候其實有很明顯的已經把他們政治的傾向\n注入到他們的節目當中甚至可能在川普在競選總統的時候可以看到有一些特定的平台他們所製作的節目其實都是有特定的政治的立場那因為可能台灣跟他們沒有政治的關係或者是也不是他們所關注的所以這一部分還沒有把手伸進來我們台灣這一邊但是我覺得這個未來因為我們現在目前對OTT的監管目前你們應該也是目前您說也全球沒有針對OTT的監管具有制定特別的法律嘛\n但是未來我覺得還是要防範相關的一些意識形態透過OTT因為OTT它現在都是比較單獨的不像我們電視有線節目它是多元的它可能有五六十台七八十台一百多台但是OTT的業者其實是幾家媒體的巨獸去掌握的那他們很容易利用他們的意識形態去影響他們所要所宣傳的是一件事情所以說我覺得維持國內的有線電視業者的轉型讓他們能夠繼續的維持多元的\n資訊的傳播對於我們的言論自由或者是我們思想自由是相對來說更重要的一件事情以上再麻煩我們主委好 謝謝委員謝謝好 謝謝我們廖教委謝謝主委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.452 --> 00:05.637\n謝謝主席麻煩請我們陳主委主委請\n\n00:12.254 --> 00:38.606\n那個主委好剛剛其實在我們學生委員在詢問的時候有提到你們剛剛有說相關的訴訟你們不繼續打下去可能怕會被監察院的糾正對不對那我想請問一下那針對我們針對中天的這個相關的許多的訴訟那我們有許多的敗訴或者是甚至是定驗的案件監察院有沒有對你們提出任何的一個糾正\n\n00:40.055 --> 00:56.622\n之前有调查报告大概结论两点第一个就是说我们类似这种案件必须要多元审慎这是第一点第二点相关的程序还是要力求符合程序正义\n\n00:57.409 --> 01:22.586\n是啊所以監察院也認為說我們在過去的一些裁罰可能過程中不夠嚴謹所以說導致了這樣子的一個結果他是提醒對那既然他們都有這樣子的提醒了那我們的NCC現在還是堅持要把一些相關的訴訟打完而不是去重新的檢視哪一些可能是有敗訴的可能而去做相關的一個訴訟的可能終止等等之類的\n\n01:23.886 --> 01:37.794\n跟委員報告那我們既有的七件的敗訴我們會從裡頭來檢討說當初這個處分是哪一部分環節是在法院比較沒有認可那一塊我們會作為未來的相關業務商討論處理後續類似的處分案做一些來\n\n01:42.176 --> 02:05.296\n那也就是過去的機制啦過去的機制有一些部分應該是客觀上應該有一些失靈來導致這樣子的一個結果那我們怎麼樣子從過去的機制去我們一定要跳出過去的機制跟我們的框架或是引入一些更多元的外界的意見來做我們過去一些案件裁罰是否要繼續打下去的一個基準否則今天我們七件可能定業了\n\n02:05.896 --> 02:27.473\n那後續我們也可以預判可能就不只七件嘛可能會有其他案數也說幾件那其實這部分都是對於人民權利的一個侵害甚至是對言論自由的一個侵害或者是司法資源的一個浪費其實都可以在我們NCC自己本身去做自我檢討的部分其實都可以去做避免好不好那再麻煩我們NCC對自由自我的檢視再多加強一些\n\n02:27.913 --> 02:54.383\n是我們會持續進行其實也跟委員報告在行政院所屬各個部會這個敗訴的一些比例我們其實算是以越少越高的話我們算是前段班了好那接下來我想請問主委OTT的這個案子那其實有限電視這個檢線槽嘛這個大勢不可逆啦就有點像鐵達尼號撞到冰山了你要叫他重新扶起來應該不太可能了最終的結果\n\n02:55.526 --> 03:09.825\n剪線槽應該會持續的繼續只是說他到底會到哪時候結束這樣子那我想確認一下有線電視我們目前面對有線電視這個剪線槽我們目前的政策\n\n03:10.646 --> 03:30.819\n是要讓它轉型力挽狂瀾讓他們重新的在國內的收視權益上面去做一個轉型然後讓這些業者都有繼續生存下去的機會跟觀眾有閱讀的一個機會還是說我們就是這樣子靜靜的看著它減得越來越多越來越多越來越多這樣子\n\n03:32.321 --> 03:46.880\n當然是委員所講的前半部我們要把它轉型鼓勵它朝向寬頻那些聯合綜合提供綜合型的一些服務寬頻上網聚焦智慧型聚焦跟社區的一些相關的應用等等\n\n03:47.523 --> 04:07.165\n那剪線草主委你認為最大的問題在哪邊最大的問題在哪邊我想請教的是節目本身的一些問題或者是說剛剛你有提到你可能現在回家大中看的節目是體育節目其實我也是因為體育節目它有一個即時性的效果它可能比較沒有辦法後續做回放的那種感覺是不一樣的\n\n04:08.390 --> 04:36.599\n那你會認為說為什麼我們現在有線電視沒有辦法去跟ODT的平台去做競爭那最大的問題在哪一邊就是委員所提到的就是年輕人喜歡看串流視訊的原因就是他可以選擇他方便的時間來收看那有線電視是排播是線性頻道這個有些續期節目一定的時間一定的播出這個對大部分年輕人其實是比較沒有辦法配合得上所以一般年輕人其實還是\n\n04:37.799 --> 04:52.994\n比較慢慢的比較不能夠接受有線電視但是如果是年長者或者其他類似的其實他還是有一定的收視族群其實很多長輩現在在看電視他變成一個心理的依靠而已他有時候在看也不是在看那個節目你知道嗎\n\n04:54.295 --> 05:21.723\n看著陪伴他有個聲音陪伴他而已像有時候晚上這個就喜歡聽有些人就喜歡聽一些聲音然後入睡有時候功能就變得部分的功能變成這樣子那請教主委你知道最近這個在OTT上面有一個YouTube上面有一個外國人做的頻道叫做中文怪物你有聽過嗎沒有你沒聽過那其實他算是最近還滿火紅的一個節目那他有點\n\n05:24.144 --> 05:49.318\n其實就是說在年輕人這一塊或者社會這一塊對他的評價是非常高的那有很多人都會拿中文怪物來跟國內的綜藝節目來做一個對比但你既然沒有看過我有點不知道怎麼問你會不會認為說我們現在的國內的這個戲劇頻道的一個品質可能已經比較不符合我們社會的一些期待\n\n05:51.716 --> 06:02.844\n兩個部分我覺得國內的短短聚集都是短極速的那個品質其實是有待提升的少部分其實也有對外輸出海外那整體而言那\n\n06:04.966 --> 06:32.242\n陪伴長者的很多其實都是比較多的是國外節目比例比較高這一塊的部分未來其實節目品質的一些提升我們在憑藉換照裡頭其實都有在把關如果它的自製率星波率其實都有一定的要求當然這個市場機制如果它品質不夠好市場的力量會給它做最後的審判\n\n06:32.918 --> 06:54.234\n所以原生OTD串起最主要兩個原因一個就是剛剛講的收視的方便那另外一個就是節目品質的一些問題那這兩個單就這兩個部分那第一個收視的方便我們可能怎麼樣可以利用現有的有線電視的一個傳統的運作的模式有要針對這個部分去做轉型嗎協助業者去做轉型\n\n06:55.079 --> 07:22.432\n兩個部分第一個是跟委員報告就是我們鼓勵有線電視業者跟OTTV來合作其實大部分的SO都已經有這麼合作第二部分跟委員報告大概先前也有委員在質疑我提出這個美國的例子美國的有線電視其實它已經結合的手機當然可以看到節目大家手機上看到節目不一定是非線性的這個OTTV不一定是傳流視訊也有線性的節目可以看所以這一塊其實未來我們有線電視業者其實可以參考那我們有在\n\n07:23.152 --> 07:50.829\n推動這件事情嗎就是用手機看有線電視這件事情我們知道有些業者早期是有在規劃那目前他可能還在測水溫那未來是不是看到那在法規上面有什麼是需要去做突破的嗎這一塊其實是沒有是可以的他們現在就可以做了所以只要是業者願意就是我們NCC這邊沒有任何的法規的一個限制對目前這一塊這個跨網際網路跨IP這塊提供的這一塊其實是沒有的\n\n07:51.449 --> 08:16.940\n那在電視節目品質這一塊其實就是雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題你要有高的收視率那可能業者才有收益那業者有收益那才會比較有一個好的一個投入的成本那去得到去做出一個好的一個節目讓我們觀眾去喜歡那這件事情剛剛主委有講到就是針對評鑑這件事情我們的運作的流程大概是怎麼樣\n\n08:19.108 --> 08:41.438\n有限電視的憑借其實就是類似的其中來考核的概念我們會提出他營運計畫的進行情形還有他這段期間被何處的情況還有他財務的一些目前的情形報給我們我們會看他們的結果來做一些相關的要求有些會付款憑借是不會但是有些會做行政指導\n\n08:42.919 --> 08:51.653\n換照的時候就會有進一步那我們曾經有類似中天這樣子的經驗然後去針對可能考評比較不好的一個業者去給他停權過嗎有過嗎\n\n08:53.694 --> 09:09.844\n有線電視大概只有一家是他們財務上這個董事長把這個收視費這個所以沒有因為節目的品質的問題節目品質可能都是指導的原則節目品質屬於頻道業者那現在講有線電視有線電視的話大概發生過就是有發臨照給他就是他財務上財務紀律不好這塊有在處理\n\n09:16.468 --> 09:44.808\n我覺得這個還是要必須要趕快做一個轉型因為當國內我擔心的是國內的有線電視業者的收視戶數越來越低的時候其實我們現在看到的很多像我們很多年輕人都是使用OTT在看一些其實都是國外主導的一些評論其實我們已經可以看到國外的OTT業者他們其實有一些甚至在製作節目的時候其實有很明顯的已經把他們政治的傾向\n\n09:45.889 --> 10:05.278\n注入到他們的節目當中甚至可能在川普在競選總統的時候可以看到有一些特定的平台他們所製作的節目其實都是有特定的政治的立場那因為可能台灣跟他們沒有政治的關係或者是也不是他們所關注的所以這一部分還沒有把手伸進來我們台灣這一邊但是我覺得這個未來因為我們現在目前對OTT的監管目前你們應該也是目前您說也全球沒有針對OTT的監管具有制定特別的法律嘛\n\n10:14.802 --> 10:37.889\n但是未來我覺得還是要防範相關的一些意識形態透過OTT因為OTT它現在都是比較單獨的不像我們電視有線節目它是多元的它可能有五六十台七八十台一百多台但是OTT的業者其實是幾家媒體的巨獸去掌握的那他們很容易利用他們的意識形態去影響他們所要所宣傳的是一件事情所以說我覺得維持國內的有線電視業者的轉型讓他們能夠繼續的維持多元的\n\n10:43.295 --> 10:51.260\n資訊的傳播對於我們的言論自由或者是我們思想自由是相對來說更重要的一件事情以上再麻煩我們主委好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝我們廖教委謝謝主委\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.452,"end":5.637,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩請我們陳主委主委請"},{"start":12.254,"end":38.606,"text":"那個主委好剛剛其實在我們學生委員在詢問的時候有提到你們剛剛有說相關的訴訟你們不繼續打下去可能怕會被監察院的糾正對不對那我想請問一下那針對我們針對中天的這個相關的許多的訴訟那我們有許多的敗訴或者是甚至是定驗的案件監察院有沒有對你們提出任何的一個糾正"},{"start":40.055,"end":56.622,"text":"之前有调查报告大概结论两点第一个就是说我们类似这种案件必须要多元审慎这是第一点第二点相关的程序还是要力求符合程序正义"},{"start":57.409,"end":82.586,"text":"是啊 所以監察院也認為說我們在過去的一些裁罰可能過程中不夠嚴謹所以說導致了這樣子的一個結果他是提醒 對那既然他們都有這樣子的提醒了那我們的NCC現在還是堅持要把一些相關的訴訟打完而不是去重新的檢視哪一些可能是有敗訴的可能而去做相關的一個訴訟的可能終止等等之類的"},{"start":83.886,"end":97.794,"text":"跟委員報告那我們既有的七件的敗訴我們會從裡頭來檢討說當初這個處分是哪一部分環節是在法院比較沒有認可那一塊我們會作為未來的相關業務商討論處理後續類似的處分案做一些來"},{"start":102.176,"end":125.296,"text":"那也就是過去的機制啦過去的機制有一些部分應該是客觀上應該有一些失靈來導致這樣子的一個結果那我們怎麼樣子從過去的機制去我們一定要跳出過去的機制跟我們的框架或是引入一些更多元的外界的意見來做我們過去一些案件裁罰是否要繼續打下去的一個基準否則今天我們七件可能定業了"},{"start":125.896,"end":147.473,"text":"那後續我們也可以預判可能就不只七件嘛可能會有其他案數也說幾件那其實這部分都是對於人民權利的一個侵害甚至是對言論自由的一個侵害或者是司法資源的一個浪費其實都可以在我們NCC自己本身去做自我檢討的部分其實都可以去做避免好不好那再麻煩我們NCC對自由自我的檢視再多加強一些"},{"start":147.913,"end":174.383,"text":"是 我們會持續進行 其實也跟委員報告在行政院所屬各個部會這個敗訴的一些比例 我們其實算是以越少越高的話 我們算是前段班了好 那接下來我想請問主委OTT的這個案子那其實有限電視這個檢線槽嘛這個大勢不可逆啦 就有點像鐵達尼號撞到冰山了你要叫他重新扶起來 應該不太可能了 最終的結果"},{"start":175.526,"end":189.825,"text":"剪線槽應該會持續的繼續只是說他到底會到哪時候結束這樣子那我想確認一下有線電視我們目前面對有線電視這個剪線槽我們目前的政策"},{"start":190.646,"end":210.819,"text":"是要讓它轉型 力挽狂瀾讓他們重新的在國內的收視權益上面去做一個轉型然後讓這些業者都有繼續生存下去的機會跟觀眾有閱讀的一個機會還是說我們就是這樣子靜靜的看著它減得越來越多 越來越多 越來越多這樣子"},{"start":212.321,"end":226.88,"text":"當然是委員所講的前半部我們要把它轉型鼓勵它朝向寬頻那些聯合綜合提供綜合型的一些服務寬頻上網聚焦智慧型聚焦跟社區的一些相關的應用等等"},{"start":227.523,"end":247.165,"text":"那剪線草主委你認為最大的問題在哪邊最大的問題在哪邊我想請教的是節目本身的一些問題或者是說剛剛你有提到你可能現在回家大中看的節目是體育節目其實我也是因為體育節目它有一個即時性的效果它可能比較沒有辦法後續做回放的那種感覺是不一樣的"},{"start":248.39,"end":276.599,"text":"那你會認為說為什麼我們現在有線電視沒有辦法去跟ODT的平台去做競爭那最大的問題在哪一邊就是委員所提到的就是年輕人喜歡看串流視訊的原因就是他可以選擇他方便的時間來收看那有線電視是排播是線性頻道這個有些續期節目一定的時間一定的播出這個對大部分年輕人其實是比較沒有辦法配合得上所以一般年輕人其實還是"},{"start":277.799,"end":292.994,"text":"比較慢慢的比較不能夠接受有線電視但是如果是年長者或者其他類似的其實他還是有一定的收視族群其實很多長輩現在在看電視他變成一個心理的依靠而已他有時候在看也不是在看那個節目你知道嗎"},{"start":294.295,"end":321.723,"text":"看著陪伴他有個聲音陪伴他而已像有時候晚上這個就喜歡聽有些人就喜歡聽一些聲音然後入睡有時候功能就變得部分的功能變成這樣子那請教主委你知道最近這個在OTT上面有一個YouTube上面有一個外國人做的頻道叫做中文怪物你有聽過嗎沒有你沒聽過那其實他算是最近還滿火紅的一個節目那他有點"},{"start":324.144,"end":349.318,"text":"其實就是說在年輕人這一塊或者社會這一塊對他的評價是非常高的那有很多人都會拿中文怪物來跟國內的綜藝節目來做一個對比但你既然沒有看過我有點不知道怎麼問你會不會認為說我們現在的國內的這個戲劇頻道的一個品質可能已經比較不符合我們社會的一些期待"},{"start":351.716,"end":362.844,"text":"兩個部分我覺得國內的短短聚集都是短極速的那個品質其實是有待提升的少部分其實也有對外輸出海外那整體而言那"},{"start":364.966,"end":392.242,"text":"陪伴長者的很多其實都是比較多的是國外節目比例比較高這一塊的部分未來其實節目品質的一些提升我們在憑藉換照裡頭其實都有在把關如果它的自製率 星波率其實都有一定的要求當然這個市場機制如果它品質不夠好市場的力量會給它做最後的審判"},{"start":392.918,"end":414.234,"text":"所以原生OTD串起最主要兩個原因一個就是剛剛講的收視的方便那另外一個就是節目品質的一些問題那這兩個單就這兩個部分那第一個收視的方便我們可能怎麼樣可以利用現有的有線電視的一個傳統的運作的模式有要針對這個部分去做轉型嗎協助業者去做轉型"},{"start":415.079,"end":442.432,"text":"兩個部分第一個是跟委員報告就是我們鼓勵有線電視業者跟OTTV來合作其實大部分的SO都已經有這麼合作第二部分跟委員報告大概先前也有委員在質疑我提出這個美國的例子美國的有線電視其實它已經結合的手機當然可以看到節目大家手機上看到節目不一定是非線性的這個OTTV不一定是傳流視訊也有線性的節目可以看所以這一塊其實未來我們有線電視業者其實可以參考那我們有在"},{"start":443.152,"end":470.829,"text":"推動這件事情嗎就是用手機看有線電視這件事情我們知道有些業者早期是有在規劃那目前他可能還在測水溫那未來是不是看到那在法規上面有什麼是需要去做突破的嗎這一塊其實是沒有是可以的他們現在就可以做了所以只要是業者願意就是我們NCC這邊沒有任何的法規的一個限制對目前這一塊這個跨網際網路跨IP這塊提供的這一塊其實是沒有的"},{"start":471.449,"end":496.94,"text":"那在電視節目品質這一塊其實就是雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題你要有高的收視率那可能業者才有收益那業者有收益那才會比較有一個好的一個投入的成本那去得到去做出一個好的一個節目讓我們觀眾去喜歡那這件事情剛剛主委有講到就是針對評鑑這件事情我們的運作的流程大概是怎麼樣"},{"start":499.108,"end":521.438,"text":"有限電視的憑借其實就是類似的其中來考核的概念我們會提出他營運計畫的進行情形還有他這段期間被何處的情況還有他財務的一些目前的情形報給我們我們會看他們的結果來做一些相關的要求有些會付款 憑借是不會但是有些會做行政指導"},{"start":522.919,"end":531.653,"text":"換照的時候就會有進一步那我們曾經有類似中天這樣子的經驗然後去針對可能考評比較不好的一個業者去給他停權過嗎有過嗎"},{"start":533.694,"end":549.844,"text":"有線電視大概只有一家是他們財務上這個董事長把這個收視費這個所以沒有因為節目的品質的問題節目品質可能都是指導的原則節目品質屬於頻道業者那現在講有線電視有線電視的話大概發生過就是有發臨照給他就是他財務上財務紀律不好這塊有在處理"},{"start":556.468,"end":584.808,"text":"我覺得這個還是要必須要趕快做一個轉型因為當國內我擔心的是國內的有線電視業者的收視戶數越來越低的時候其實我們現在看到的很多像我們很多年輕人都是使用OTT在看一些其實都是國外主導的一些評論其實我們已經可以看到國外的OTT業者他們其實有一些甚至在製作節目的時候其實有很明顯的已經把他們政治的傾向"},{"start":585.889,"end":605.278,"text":"注入到他們的節目當中甚至可能在川普在競選總統的時候可以看到有一些特定的平台他們所製作的節目其實都是有特定的政治的立場那因為可能台灣跟他們沒有政治的關係或者是也不是他們所關注的所以這一部分還沒有把手伸進來我們台灣這一邊但是我覺得這個未來因為我們現在目前對OTT的監管目前你們應該也是目前您說也全球沒有針對OTT的監管具有制定特別的法律嘛"},{"start":614.802,"end":637.889,"text":"但是未來我覺得還是要防範相關的一些意識形態透過OTT因為OTT它現在都是比較單獨的不像我們電視有線節目它是多元的它可能有五六十台七八十台一百多台但是OTT的業者其實是幾家媒體的巨獸去掌握的那他們很容易利用他們的意識形態去影響他們所要所宣傳的是一件事情所以說我覺得維持國內的有線電視業者的轉型讓他們能夠繼續的維持多元的"},{"start":643.295,"end":651.26,"text":"資訊的傳播對於我們的言論自由或者是我們思想自由是相對來說更重要的一件事情以上再麻煩我們主委好 謝謝委員謝謝好 謝謝我們廖教委謝謝主委"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":558,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（11時4分）好，謝謝主席，麻煩請陳主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：主委好。剛剛在回答陳雪生委員質詢的時候，你提到相關的訴訟如果不繼續打下去，怕可能會被監察院糾正，對不對？我想請問一下，針對中天的許多相關訴訟，你們有很多是敗訴，甚至已經定讞的案件，對此，監察院有沒有對你們提出任何糾正？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：之前有調查報告，結論大概兩點：第一點，類似這種案件我們必須多元審慎，這是第一點；第二點，相關的程序還是要力求符合程序正義。"],["廖委員先翔：是啊！所以監察院也認為你們在過去的一些裁罰上，可能過程不夠嚴謹，導致這樣的結果……"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：它是提醒，它是提醒。"],["廖委員先翔：對，既然他們有這樣的提醒，但NCC現在還是堅持要把一些相關訴訟打完，而不是重新檢視哪一些案件可能有敗訴的可能，而去做相關訴訟終止之類的作為，是不是？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，針對既有的7件敗訴，我們會檢討這些案件當初的處分，有哪一部分環節是法院比較沒有認可的，那一塊我們會作為未來在處理後續類似處分案的討論上，做一些……"],["廖委員先翔：客觀上來講，過去的機制應該有一部分失靈，才導致這樣的結果，所以你們一定要跳脫過去的機制跟框架，或是引入外界更多元的意見，作為過去一些裁罰案件是否要繼續打官司的基準，否則今天有7件已經定讞，後續我們可以預判可能不只這7件，而是還會有其他案件。這些都是對人民權利的侵害，或是對言論自由的侵害，甚至是司法資源的浪費，NCC本身應該先自我檢討，那麼這些也都可以避免，好不好？再麻煩NCC對自我的檢視再多加強一些。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，我們會持續精進，其實也跟委員報告，行政院所屬各個部會敗訴的比例，如果越少越高的話，我們算是前段班了。"],["廖委員先翔：好，接下來我想請問主委有關OTT的案子。現在看來，有線電視的剪線潮是大勢不可逆，有點像鐵達尼號撞到冰山，要叫它重新浮起來應該不太可能，最終的結果是剪線潮應該會持續，問題只在於到底何時會結束。我想先確認一下，面對有線電視的剪線潮，你們目前的政策是力挽狂瀾，要讓它轉型，重新在國內的收視權益上轉型，讓這些業者有繼續生存下去的機會，以及讓觀眾有閱讀的機會，還是你們就這樣子靜靜的看著它剪得越來越多、越來越多？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：當然是委員所講的前半部……"],["廖委員先翔：前半部，要讓它轉型？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：鼓勵它轉型、鼓勵它朝向寬頻，提供綜合型服務，例如寬頻上網、社會型居家跟社區的一些相關應用等等。"],["廖委員先翔：主委認為剪線潮最大的問題在哪邊？我想請教節目本身的一些問題，剛剛你提到你現在回家，大部分都是看體育節目，其實我也是，因為體育節目有即時性效果，後續比較沒有辦法回放收看，那種感覺是不一樣的，那你認為為什麼現在的有線電視沒有辦法跟OTT平臺競爭，最大的問題在哪裡？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：就像委員所提到的，年輕人喜歡看串流視訊的原因，是他可以選擇方便的時間收看，而有線電視是排播的線性頻道，有些戲劇節目是一定時間、一定頻道播出，這對大部分年輕人來說，是比較沒有辦法配合得上，所以一般年輕人慢慢的比較不能夠接受有線電視，但如果是年長者或者其他類似的，它還是有一定的收視族群。"],["廖委員先翔：其實很多長輩現在看電視變成是一個心理依靠，有時候他也不是在看那個節目，你知道嗎？就是有個聲音陪伴他而已，像有些人晚上就喜歡聽一些聲音才能入睡，有時候它的部分功能就變成是這樣子。","另外，請教主委，你知道最近YouTube有一個外國人做的頻道，叫做「中文怪物」，你有聽過嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：沒有。"],["廖委員先翔：你沒聽過？它算是最近還滿火紅的一個節目，而且在年輕人或者社會這一塊，對它的評價非常高，有很多人會拿「中文怪物」來跟國內的綜藝節目對比，既然你沒有看過，我就有點不知道該怎麼問，請問你認不認為國內目前戲劇節目的一些品質，可能已經比較不符合社會的期待？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：兩個部分，我覺得國內的短劇集，就是短集數的品質有待提升，雖然少部分其實也有對外輸出海外。整體而言，陪伴長者的，其實國外節目的比例比較高，這一塊的部分，未來節目品質的一些提升，我們在評鑑換照裡頭都有在把關，它的自製率、新播率都有一定的要求，當然因為有市場機制，如果它品質不夠好，市場的力量會給它做最後的審判。"],["廖委員先翔：所以原則上OTT竄起最主要有兩個原因，一個就是剛剛講的收視的方便，另外一個就是節目品質的一些問題。單就這兩個部分，第一個、收視的方便，我們怎麼樣可以利用現有有線電視的傳統運作模式？有要針對這個部分轉型嗎？協助業者轉型？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：兩個部分，第一個，跟委員報告，我們鼓勵有線電視業者跟OTT TV來合作，其實大部分的MSO都已經有合作。第二部分，跟委員報告，先前也有委員質詢，我提出美國的例子，美國的有線電視已經結合手機端可以看到節目，手機端看到的節目不一定是非線性的OTT TV，不一定是串流視訊，也有線性的節目可以看，所以這一塊未來我們的有線電視可以參考。"],["廖委員先翔：那我們有在推動這件事情嗎？就是用手機看有線電視這件事情。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們知道有些業者早期是有在規劃，目前可能還在測水溫，未來是不是看到美國……"],["廖委員先翔：那在法規上面有什麼需要去突破的嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這一塊其實是沒有。"],["廖委員先翔：是可以的？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：他們現在就可以做了。"],["廖委員先翔：所以只要業者願意，NCC沒有任何法規的限制？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，目前跨網際網路、跨IP提供的這一塊其實是沒有。"],["廖委員先翔：那在電視節目品質這一塊，其實就是雞生蛋、蛋生雞的問題，要有高的收視率，業者可能才有收益，業者有收益，才會比較有好的投入成本，做出好的節目，讓觀眾喜歡。剛剛主委有講到，針對評鑑這一件事情，運作流程大概是怎麼樣？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有些電視的評鑑，其實就是類似期中考核的概念，我們會要它提出營運計畫的執行情形，還有它這段期間被核處的情況，還有它財務的一些情形要報給我們，我們會看他們的結果來做相關的一些要求，有些會附款……評鑑是不會，但是有些會做行政指導，換照的時候，就會有進一步……"],["廖委員先翔：你們曾經有類似中天這樣子的經驗，針對可能考評比較不好的業者停權過嗎？有過嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有線電視大概只有一家，他們財務上……董事長把收視費……"],["廖委員先翔：所以沒有因為節目品質的問題？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：節目品質……"],["廖委員先翔：可能都是指導的原則？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：節目品質屬於頻道業者，那現在講的是有線電視，有線電視的話發生過有發臨照給它，但是它財務紀律不好，這塊有在處理。"],["廖委員先翔：我覺得這個還是必須要趕快轉型，我擔心的是國內有線電視業者的收視戶數越來越低。其實我們現在看到很多年輕人都是使用OTT在看一些國外主導的評論，而我們已經可以看到國外的OTT業者，他們有一些甚至在製作節目的時候，滿明顯的把政治傾向注入到節目當中，甚至可能在川普競選總統的時候，可以看到有一些特定平台所製作的節目都是有特定的政治立場。可能臺灣跟他們沒有政治的關係，或者也不是他們所關注的，所以這部分還沒有把手伸進來臺灣。目前您說全球沒有針對OTT的監管有制定特別的法律，但是未來我覺得還是要防範相關的一些意識型態透過OTT，因為OTT現在都是比較單獨的，不像有線電視節目是多元的，可能有五、六十台，七、八十台，一百多台。OTT其實就是幾家媒體巨獸掌握的，他們很容易利用意識型態去影響他們所要宣傳的事情，所以我覺得維持國內有線電視業者的轉型，讓他們能夠繼續維持多元的資訊傳播，對於言論自由或者是思想自由，相對來說是更重要的一件事。以上，再麻煩主委。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，謝謝委員。"],["廖委員先翔：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝廖召委、謝謝主委，休息10分鐘。","休息（11時14分）","繼續開會（11時24分）"],["主席（廖委員先翔代）：繼續開會。","接下來請何欣純委員發言。"],["何委員欣純：謝謝主席。請陳代理主委。"],["主席：陳主委。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：委員好。"],["何委員欣純：主委好。我一向很關心民生議題，我今天要關心的就是現在大部分人所在乎的通訊品質問題，這是消費者權益的問題。第一個，從電信消費爭議處理中心每月公告的一些數據，我想主委也應該知道，譬如以2024年9月到今年2025年8月，我們統整出來4,487件的申訴裡面，有關通訊品質不良或是被申訴的案件最多，在4,487件的申訴裡面也超過八成都是跟行動通訊有關係，我剛剛講的每個月大概有五成以上都是申訴品質的問題。我這裡又有一個數據也是你們的，以2025年8月為例，8月行動通訊的申訴全部加總起來總共324件，其中有關品質不良或是被客訴的案件有169件，我相信主委對這些爭議案件應該不陌生。","接下來，你們又調查，也告訴我，現在4G、5G的傳輸速度跟覆蓋率的滿意度看起來是下降的，因為這是你們在2025年公布的，公布什麼？2024年你們統整了一個叫通訊傳播市場的報告，這個報告裡面10分為滿分，但是從111年、112年、113年，前三年看起來有下降的趨勢，這個主委應該也知道吧？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是，知道。"],["何委員欣純：是嘛！所以統整剛剛所說的，在過去12個月以來將近4,500件的申訴裡面，八成是跟行動通訊有關，而在這八成行動通訊有關的申訴裡面，每個月又有超過五成以上是通訊品質不佳，再加上你們自己NCC的調查裡面又告訴我們，過去連續三年不管是4G、5G的傳輸速度跟覆蓋率的滿意度，國人對你們的滿意度，你們的市場報告裡面來講是下降的，所以結論是什麼？我們現在號稱數位王國，大家九成九以上都在用智慧型手機，我們也號稱是通訊王國，又是一個非常重要的技術輸出產地國，可是國人好像對這樣的服務不是很滿意。主委，你認為呢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們都會要求電信業者來持續提升品質，112年、113年相對有一點點的……"],["何委員欣純：有進步一點。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：下滑或怎麼樣……"],["何委員欣純：應該這樣講，111年到112年看起來有進步一點，但是我不知道為什麼，112年到113年又下滑了。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：應該有相對應的一些個案上的原因。"],["何委員欣純：而且你看另外一個，我們在4G、5G網路涵蓋率的滿意度裡面，113年5G行動電話的滿意度下降最多，滿分是10分，國人在你們的調查報告裡面只給6.99分，你有看過這個數據嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我大概有看過。"],["何委員欣純：你大概有看過吧？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["何委員欣純：對啊！國人不滿意，你滿意嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們都不會滿意業者，都不會以現況為滿足啦！"],["何委員欣純：因為我們在五、六年前開始宣布要大幅提升5G，邁向5G王國嘛！對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["何委員欣純：等一下我會跟你討論，在討論5G之前，要先跟你講國人不太滿意，但你說你以國人的滿意為追求的目標。我知道你們在2022年7月就成立電信消費爭議處理中心，對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是。"],["何委員欣純：當時你們宣傳說，為了公平合理，然後迅速、有效的處理電信消費爭議跟保護消費者權益，還是NCC自己寫的喔！你們認為可處理九成以上的糾紛，所以你們也弄了一個表格，包括電信消費的爭議處理管道等等，成立到現在三年多，你認為功能如何？成效如何？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們認為處理的時效上會比較快，因為電消中心是電信相關事業加入的，過往在電消中心成立之前是透過NCC再轉給他們，其實在時效上會比較有……"],["何委員欣純：好，如果按照你的說法，在時效上會比較快，我可以理解，可是有功效嗎？功能好嗎？有真正地解決問題嗎？主委。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這一塊就誠如剛剛委員提示的……"],["何委員欣純：對，我為什麼會這樣問你？這個就牽涉到剛剛一開始我跟你講的，為什麼國人對通訊品質、對於傳輸的覆蓋率、傳輸的效率等等不甚滿意？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，這一塊我們大概是分兩個部分在處理，第一個，如果有很多民眾申訴他家裡的收訊不好，那就是室內涵蓋不好，對於室內涵蓋不好，我們一般會請電信業者一定要去親訪、面訪這個消費者、使用者所在的那邊，看是不是需要在他家裡加裝booster，也就是區域的訊號放大器。"],["何委員欣純：可是我跟你講，主委，你們還曾經發過一個新聞稿，你們5G訊號的覆蓋率高達98%！我等一下才要跟你討論這一題，你現在還跟我講……"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：這一塊是指一般國際上都在說「人口涵蓋率」，假設全臺灣有2,300萬人，有二千二百九十幾萬人可以收到的話，那個涵蓋率就是很高。"],["何委員欣純：這是你們的數據跟所謂的國際標準，但是實際上申訴的案件有五成以上都是在申訴通訊品質啊！所以第一個，在功能上，你說時效有比以往好，這我可以理解，但我覺得成效是有待商榷的，這就是為什麼我希望你NCC要積極地去監理。","我去調了一下，是只看了幾個月，因為電信爭議處理中心每個月都要公布它的報告，每一次的報告都會開始講哪些業者有哪些問題，這些業者有問題要提出改善作法。我跟你講，對於申訴原因、改善作法我每個月看了一下都是大同小異，大概也都是在講我剛剛講的，也就是五成以上都是在講通訊品質不佳、覆蓋率不夠等等。","你自己看，所有的業者、通信業者回復說他要怎麼改善、改善的作法，看起來每個月的文字有八成以上都一樣。我為什麼會這樣子講？如果每一次、每個月的報告問題都差不多一樣，改善的作法也差不多一樣，但每個月還是持續在發生，為什麼呢？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，有些個案可能因為僵固性而無法處理，比方在中小學附近的住家，因為中小學是禁止基地台入內或附近有基地台，所以中小學附近的住家收訊就相對比較有問題。"],["何委員欣純：好，我可以理解，這個是我們法制面的要求。那對於這個區塊，你們有沒有善盡宣導的責任？譬如很多民眾不知道他家在學校附近，可能受限於這樣子的法規要求，附近沒有基地台，所以通訊品質就會比較差一點，一般國人會知道這件事嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：一般人是不太會知道的。"],["何委員欣純：對嘛！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：我們會請業者加強宣導。"],["何委員欣純：所以我現在在跟你講的是，每個月的報告問題都差不多，然後改善作法看起來有八、九成的文字也都一模一樣，可是每個月還是不斷地產生這些問題，NCC到底要如何監督、改善？要能夠落實以降低這些申訴嘛！讓通信品質是好的嘛！讓國人知道通訊品質到現在為止好跟不好到底是不是有像你剛剛講的因素。你剛剛講到的因素只是一個樣態的個案喔！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對。"],["何委員欣純：其他這麼多申訴的案件裡面，你們到底有沒有大數據分析，然後一一地協助電信爭議處理中心或是督導業者去解決？因為電信爭議處理中心是由所有通信業者成員共同組成的，不是嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：是的，沒錯。"],["何委員欣純：是嘛！"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：如果是室外涵蓋不好的部分，很多就誠如剛剛委員所提示的，與簡報右邊第2點一樣，很多是因為拆台抗爭。拆台抗爭之後，離新的點要設立好也要一段時間，如果是都會區，有時候要建台其實也有一些挑戰跟困難度，所以我們會編預算跟民眾做一些電磁波安全的宣導。未來我們也會在宣導上，或是在客訴處理上，請電信業者，還有我們自己在宣導時會告訴民眾一些相關的，比方中小學附近會有一些涵蓋的死角，會用其他的替代方案處理。"],["何委員欣純：是嘛！我覺得就是要改善啊！這個就是你們要盡你們的責任嘛！要跟電信爭議處理中心，還有這些業者合作嘛！","最後一個，我還是要再提醒，有關電信服務的定型化契約，你們開過7場公聽會，什麼時候要公告？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：跟委員報告，其實最近一版的定型化契約我們去年已經公告了，那時候是處理個資的問題，大概修正……"],["何委員欣純：就是處理對消費者的權益保障跟個資的問題，對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：對，第三十七條我們已經在處理了，但是因為後來委員會議……電消契約已經處理掉了，至於號碼管理辦法則是因為委員會沒辦法組成，所以沒有辦法處理。定型化契約已經處理了，甚至為了打詐，定型化契約最近在固網的部分，或是在行動的部分，針對異常訊務、異常話務的部分，電信業者可以根據它得停止、斷話或終止使用，這一塊其實在打詐上有發揮很大的成效。"],["何委員欣純：在打詐上有發揮作用？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有。"],["何委員欣純：我期待會後給我書面資料。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，沒有問題。"],["何委員欣純：對於打詐，國人是希望它能發生功效的。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：有。"],["何委員欣純：所以在電信服務定型化契約裡面，對於業者的要求還有對消費者權益的保障是很重要的，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，我們會把報告寫清楚給委員。"],["何委員欣純：因為時間的關係，5G涵蓋率的問題我下次再跟你討教。"],["陳代理主任委員崇樹：好，謝謝委員。"],["何委員欣純：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝何欣純委員。","接下來請賴士葆委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-4","speakers":["洪孟楷","李昆澤","黃健豪","蔡其昌","陳素月","林俊憲","魯明哲","徐富癸","陳雪生","廖先翔","何欣純","賴士葆","黃國昌","邱若華","游顥","葉元之","林國成","許智傑"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-27"],"gazette_id":"1149001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員陳崇樹列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、處理113\n年度中央政府總預算附屬單位預算關於國家通訊傳播委員會主管有線廣播電視事業發展基金專題\n報告案計1案","agenda_id":"1149001_00001"}}}