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兩項委員會所說的是機場的改建跟改善一個是大橋的問題關係到馬祖未來百年大計我想從政者尤其從事政治尤其是首長對各縣市尤其偏鄉離島應該更加重視不會說只居住在台灣本島\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 80.627, \"end\": 81.167, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"礎\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 81.167, \"end\": 81.328, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 81.328, \"end\": 82.688, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 82.688, \"end\": 83.289, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 83.289, \"end\": 83.469, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 83.469, \"end\": 83.829, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 83.829, \"end\": 85.17, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 85.17, \"end\": 85.63, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 85.63, \"end\": 85.85, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 85.85, \"end\": 86.09, \"score\": 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我個人認為我想應該你也認為明年應該要給一點錢吧第一期預算先編上去現場你同意不同意我想你跟賴總統報告\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1017.967, \"end\": 1018.247, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1018.247, \"end\": 1018.367, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 1018.367, \"end\": 1018.567, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 1018.567, \"end\": 1018.727, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1018.727, \"end\": 1018.867, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"北\", \"start\": 1018.867, \"end\": 1019.388, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"竿\"}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1019.388, \"end\": 1019.468, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 1019.468, \"end\": 1019.608, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 1019.608, \"end\": 1020.088, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1020.088, \"end\": 1020.248, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 1020.248, \"end\": 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我想我跟委員共同兩個遺憾第一個遺憾就是現在現行財化法水平分配不公平才造成你剛剛說的 即使三個離島都不公平離島跟台灣本島之間是絕對的不公平\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1299.372, \"end\": 1299.492, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1299.492, \"end\": 1299.652, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1299.652, \"end\": 1301.534, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1301.534, \"end\": 1301.814, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 1301.814, \"end\": 1301.994, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1301.994, \"end\": 1302.094, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1302.094, \"end\": 1302.335, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"麻\", \"start\": 1302.335, \"end\": 1304.536, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"煩\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1304.536, \"end\": 1304.797, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1304.797, \"end\": 1305.517, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1305.517, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1339.992, \"end\": 1340.133, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 1340.133, \"end\": 1340.293, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1340.293, \"end\": 1340.533, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 1340.533, \"end\": 1340.553, \"score\": 0.749}]}, {\"start\": 1341.44, \"end\": 1366.488, \"text\": \"修正過如何馬上可用 或者是他有時間上的落差第二個是朝野各黨團內部現在的意見有沒有趨於一致還是有其他的意見就這個分配不出去的345億如何使用我們還要討論重認這個稍微緩和一點現在潮潮也大嘛 對不對就緩和一點 你不要積累去對抗嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 1341.44, \"end\": 1341.64, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 1341.64, \"end\": 1342.76, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1342.76, \"end\": 1342.94, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 1342.94, \"end\": 1343.521, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1343.521, \"end\": 1343.721, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1343.721, \"end\": 1343.861, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"用\", 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{\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 1353.644, \"end\": 1353.784, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1353.784, \"end\": 1353.904, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1353.904, \"end\": 1354.804, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1354.804, \"end\": 1354.984, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 1354.984, \"end\": 1355.184, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 1355.184, \"end\": 1355.324, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 1355.324, \"end\": 1355.985, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1355.985, \"end\": 1356.125, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1356.125, \"end\": 1358.165, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 1358.165, \"end\": 1358.885, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"稍\", \"start\": 1358.885, \"end\": 1359.046, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"微\", \"start\": 1359.046, \"end\": 1359.606, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"緩\"}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 1359.606, \"end\": 1359.786, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1359.786, \"end\": 1361.026, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1361.026, \"end\": 1361.246, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"潮\", \"start\": 1361.246, \"end\": 1361.486, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"潮\", \"start\": 1361.486, \"end\": 1361.646, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 1361.646, \"end\": 1361.866, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1361.866, \"end\": 1363.227, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 1363.227, \"end\": 1363.687, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1363.687, \"end\": 1363.707, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1363.707, \"end\": 1364.147, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"緩\"}, {\"word\": \"和\", \"start\": 1364.147, \"end\": 1364.427, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1364.427, \"end\": 1365.107, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 1365.107, \"end\": 1365.247, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1365.247, \"end\": 1365.327, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1365.327, \"end\": 1365.488, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"累\", \"start\": 1365.488, \"end\": 1365.768, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1365.768, \"end\": 1366.168, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"抗\", \"start\": 1366.168, \"end\": 1366.468, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 1366.468, \"end\": 1366.488, \"score\": 0.021}]}, {\"start\": 1367.449, \"end\": 1392.363, \"text\": \"很緩和 我們緩和到拿出4165億了不要去硬撞 火車對撞撞的結果你看看像那個凍結預算我們沒有對撞 被撞而已然後對撞我們哪裡凍結預算 凍結預算有什麼了你起碼讓這一些單位 行政部門去解釋嘛你解釋都還沒解釋 兩個總裁都在那邊吵架當時也跟你講委員當時應該有跟你說計算公式錯誤啊在復議的時候啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"很\", 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{\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:28,579\n主席早安是不是請卓院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢卓院長好久不見最近就在辛苦了\n\n2\n00:00:29,534 --> 00:00:54,486\n大家都最近事情多大家都一樣通力合作謝謝首先跟您報告學生在從事公職人員連江縣政府待了12年台北市政府待了13年我的民意代表深海從國大代表縣長立法委員一共待了26年了我想對馬祖\n\n3\n00:00:57,036 --> 00:01:18,867\n基礎建設最了解的我想我是其中之一我不敢講唯一的一個今天跟院長吵架的是偏鄉離島基礎建設工程那基礎建設工程院長你答得出來我們馬祖目前最重要的基礎工程是什麼嗎最重要的\n\n4\n00:01:20,627 --> 00:01:47,323\n兩項基礎工程兩項委員會所說的是機場的改建跟改善一個是大橋的問題關係到馬祖未來百年大計我想從政者尤其從事政治尤其是首長對各縣市尤其偏鄉離島應該更加重視不會說只居住在台灣本島\n\n5\n00:01:49,042 --> 00:02:12,317\n那我首先跟你談一下北竿機場第一期改善工程謝謝中央政府自從馬祖北竿機場出了兩件大事以後有注意到因為這兩座機場是全國都是兩座最危險的機場那麼中央也從善如流投資了第一期工程投資220億\n\n6\n00:02:17,385 --> 00:02:42,427\n目前的進度大概縣政府的部分即將要啟動了也就是豐山那邊的垃圾場要遷移這個事情由民航局已經委託林鄉縣政府再執行這個我想不是問題第二個是民航局跑道的整建工程這也OK這沒問題現在是民航局委託\n\n7\n00:02:43,963 --> 00:03:10,135\n臺灣港澳公司進行微提工程還有開挖造地的工程這個工程時間比較久經費也比較多我也拜託民航局局長也拜託世襲我們鄭董事長這一項工程要特別注意現在已經發包出去了由世襲顧問建造公司來承包我也拜託他們為什麼\n\n8\n00:03:11,890 --> 00:03:38,255\n這個機場對馬祖來而言是非常重要的一環但是北竿的居民卻有聲音有雜音其實我在五月末我也左思右想確實需要建造的時間要八年這八年對當地民眾因為他坐飛機要到南竿去坐要到離島要坐船過去還有通勤人員\n\n9\n00:03:39,469 --> 00:04:07,764\n還有當地就業的像民航局在那邊有單位還有消防隊等等很多單位那麼這些單位怎麼辦是個問題我講後續的問題很重要這裡面前幾天我跟朋友聊天聊到台中青泉崗屏東的機場他們施工的方式用半半工什麼是半半工呢半半工就是一面施工\n\n10\n00:04:08,871 --> 00:04:36,862\n一半也可以飛航這個錢可能會比較多一點為什麼因為他的工地他做消波塊跟沉箱工地不在馬祖當地做馬祖當地也缺工台灣都缺工何況離島缺得更嚴重他可以在台北港的腹地或是在高雄港的腹地來做沉箱或是做消波塊然後送到那邊去把它填海\n\n11\n00:04:37,699 --> 00:05:04,255\n所以用這樣的方式,用半班的工程,可能可以縮短時間,因為他要八年到十年,這個痛苦期太長了。我想院長能不能請您協助,我已經跟他們有溝通過了,那麼世襲曾鈺萌董事長也從善如流,會朝這個方向去走,因為確實痛苦期時間太長了。我也告訴當地的民眾,\n\n12\n00:05:06,151 --> 00:05:30,679\n馬祖機場基礎工程一定要完成這是百年大計我想我們沒有遠見沒有宏觀但是就我目前從政51年的經驗馬祖未來我起碼看得非常清楚我也拜託我們中央的長官不管哪一黨執政能夠重視到馬祖院長請你回答我\n\n13\n00:05:32,463 --> 00:05:47,214\n謝謝委員對離島馬祖地區長時間的投入關心這個我想馬祖的居民跟全國的國人都清楚那我認為就跟現在的非洲豬瘟一樣國人同胞忍得一時\n\n14\n00:05:48,325 --> 00:06:11,896\n就能夠爭取一世忍得一段的時間爭取一個世代的大家的安穩也是一樣我覺得馬祖的國人也是一樣忍得一段時間的痛苦我們可以爭取一個世代的進步在工程的方面我當然要相信也要尊重工程專家設計單位\n\n15\n00:06:13,777 --> 00:06:39,766\n建造單位施工上的安全跟需求那麼在工程期間如果能夠縮短有新的工法在目前交通部跟這個設計單位來合作如果有新的工法那不影響安全當然我們可以支持那無論是工期多長在工期當中對馬祖居民在交通上所產生的一些負擔交通部也已經預先有所因應有所準備應該在\n\n16\n00:06:42,431 --> 00:06:58,485\n減輕或是共同負擔的情況底下讓居民能夠在忍耐的過程當中不需要再付出更多的財務代價交通部可以做說明另外後續的一些措施你們還是要因應好不好\n\n17\n00:07:01,625 --> 00:07:17,877\n報告委員您所說的這個班班施工也很感謝您啦特別跟建造單位設計單位大家一起來討論這個部分我們盡量縮短我們尊重專業啦像院長所指示的我們尊重專業但是如果可以縮短的部分我們盡量來想辦法\n\n18\n00:07:18,758 --> 00:07:46,631\n腹地相對於其他的機場來說是比較小所以班班施工的空間會比較少但我們盡量縮短這是確定的目標另外您在指示的就是說我們希望對於後續的因應就是我們那邊的居民要搭船到南竿去搭飛機的時候這個部分我們跟縣政府有在合作您應該也很清楚這個部分我們會繼續來努力因為你起碼每天飛個一班把當地的居民不要\n\n19\n00:07:47,577 --> 00:08:14,128\n再到旅島去坐飛機嘛飛一班的話他們當地的旅島居民可以出來那觀光客的話沒辦法降落啦觀光客要到南根機場降落以後還要坐船到北竿去我想這個衝擊比較小當然對北竿的生意啊商家啦生意會有影響那麼這個相對的配套我想請交通部要妥為因應好不好第二件要跟您談的是馬祖大橋\n\n20\n00:08:15,856 --> 00:08:41,696\n最近我看到電視一直跑馬燈在跑交通部陳部長說淡江大橋馬上要合攏了明年五月份要完工我非常高興我祝福全長12公里10點多公里很像金門大橋他在蓋我是馬祖德民意代表跑到金門去幹什麼我去看金門大橋我看他怎麼蓋蓋好了沒有\n\n21\n00:08:43,663 --> 00:09:11,933\n他大概是7公里還是多少5.41公里馬祖的橋只要3公里最近馬祖民眾對我沒有信心我對自己也沒有什麼信心你看看這個馬祖大橋哪一年核定的107年總統那時候時任行政院院長賴總統他批的我跑到行政院去\n\n22\n00:09:13,364 --> 00:09:42,707\n我說報告院長這個橋一定要做那時候還有一些人有意見那麼賴院長不管把他拿來馬上案子送到我的手上他把他批了第二天賴院長就卸任了他卸任了我記得非常的清楚那時間經過了七年你看經過了七年從一百多億兩百多億上一次總諮詢的時候院長回答我說要三百多億我說院長你那個是拆的\n\n23\n00:09:43,659 --> 00:10:11,101\n那國發費提供的資料什麼360億他怎麼來300多億400多億他也沒有去海底鑽探任何都沒有他只是聽世西的是世西告訴他的我前幾天打電話給鄭運鵬董事長為什麼我之前要交通部你們發個函給世西公司你到底多少錢你給我精算出來\n\n24\n00:10:12,335 --> 00:10:37,700\n你們也不關我這個有回覆到您辦公室你問了嗎也沒問嘛沒問嘛是不是所以有時候立委在立法院質詢我拜託大家目瞭同仁把它記下來尤其能夠在總諮詢上面提出的問題都是非常重要的不好意思報告委員這個部分有回覆給您辦公室世西工程有核算出一個經費是360億\n\n25\n00:10:40,730 --> 00:11:07,070\n有一些東西不要我一直追嘛好那我講到這個馬祖大橋從賴院長核定可行性評估花了多少錢花了一億五千多萬啦評估的結果在工程施工度沒有問題我們國內有這樣工程的經驗經費也不是問題你從前面的蘇貞昌院長從蔡英文總統到賴總統\n\n26\n00:11:10,088 --> 00:11:34,479\n經費都不受問題那最近也經過了金門大橋經過了淡江大橋我想國內的施工技術已經成熟了那有些人跟我講說如果這條橋的經費核定了你們不要找大陸去發包啊現在有法令的限制嘛我們怎麼可能找大陸來包這個工程呢大陸做的當然以他們的經驗我們也看得到的\n\n27\n00:11:35,077 --> 00:12:02,441\n它工鐵大橋什麼好幾個大橋施工路比馬祖還難的都已經完成了我想這是我們國人的驕傲我們目前有這個能力來做在整個排序上時間已經過了七年了我明年還一年後年還一年我說我走最後一里路你不能讓我做到99歲吧我想年紀也大了一點\n\n28\n00:12:04,153 --> 00:12:31,822\n怎麼會是最後一里路呢橋還沒有蓋好怎麼會有最後一里路橋是你的第一里路啊沒關係啊你要給我橋的話我就繼續幹啊你不給我橋的話我幹不下去啦院長所以明年的預算我看不到了齁起碼你明年開始嘛因為他是分十年來編列金門大橋做了十年啊分十年嘛不管是三百億四百億你一年就是投入三十億到四十億嘛這個馬祖啊\n\n29\n00:12:33,035 --> 00:12:55,805\n你要去看馬祖你到底要不要馬祖所以前一陣子金門兩棲偵察連調到澎湖去訓練我不曉得他還要不要回去我都覺得是不是台灣不要我們金門馬祖了不會馬祖金門都是我們重要的離島而且他有戰略地位我最近還想找時間到馬祖去看看你要去看看嗎要\n\n30\n00:12:56,943 --> 00:13:19,011\n什麼時候去我陪你去好你在那邊等我就好了委員在馬祖等我就好了你不要自己一個人跑了那院長我是說排序應該要開始啟動了我這幾年因為國內財政還有政治紛擾我都按捺住你看我在立法院有沒有跟你們發過脾氣從來沒有你看那個\n\n31\n00:13:24,563 --> 00:13:46,026\n國道6號東延花蓮的特別條例通過了那你們說行政院講說你幹什麼訂什麼特別條例啊有公務預算來出就好啦我也同意啊OK啊但是我們是乖乖排啊你看我都沒吵也沒鬧但是你還是不給我啊是不是你還是不給我啊交通部都有在進行啊\n\n32\n00:13:46,823 --> 00:14:15,237\n不過你明年要排進去交付都有在進行而且跟設計單位都有在進度上都有在進行但總要克服一些現在我們看到的困難院長我不是說你幫我助選你起碼我任期快到了你明年這個錢排個30億40億幫我預算編進去你能不能承諾我真的民眾對我沒信心我自己對自己都沒信心我進選這件事情信任兩個字\n\n33\n00:14:16,618 --> 00:14:38,524\n怎麼信任我沒辦法信任啦是不是院長你可以答應我嗎一個七年了一定要做的啦交通部來規劃啦也是要看這個設計的單位他怎麼樣來對現在看到的一些狀況他能夠按部就班有序的來進行世襲告訴我沒有問題有問題的是誰咧有問題的是都是你們大人啦你知道嗎\n\n34\n00:14:42,881 --> 00:15:00,013\n不是不是過去委員說金額還沒有算出來預算沒有算出來就是他不曉得困難度有多大如果他至少現在360億的預算算出來了工程預算算出來了表示他知道要克服哪些問題我們就逐步來推動好吧360億就360億嘛你一年就編個36億吧可以不可以\n\n35\n00:15:03,557 --> 00:15:32,734\n交通部的預算一年七八千億啊我們現在專心的在趕北竿機場就是您剛剛所關心的那未來南竿機場其實也有改善的計畫我們交通部來說的話我們先把機場的部分我們先想辦法趕快把它做好你看桃園的一個高架橋的捷運往地下走幾百億五百多億啊增加五百多億360億多嗎也不多啊這是關係到馬祖未來\n\n36\n00:15:33,533 --> 00:16:00,857\n當然中央這幾年馬祖有長途的進步憑良心講而且我當立法委員都是貴長在執政真的是你們執政馬祖老闆不是瞎了眼不是不了解都了解你們給的是蠻多的但是這些年齡碎碎的工程小的基礎建設你要大方向去走的話一定馬祖大橋要把它完工院長你知道嗎你如果不去做馬祖大橋\n\n37\n00:16:02,227 --> 00:16:30,588\n我請問南竿機場你要不要改善南竿機場是非常危險的那等於是在航空母艦上面降落飛機明天是媽祖升天紀我不敢回去空中非常不穩定起飛跟降落坦特不安你知道嗎坦特不安沒有那麼安全當然我們不怕一萬只怕萬一所以這個一定要改善你如果去改善南竿機場的話\n\n38\n00:16:33,195 --> 00:16:56,808\n經費非常龐大1000億跑不掉了你不能出了狀況以後去改善它所以你兩座機場要變成一座機場這個馬祖大橋勢在必行院長你同意不同意我的看法北竿機場的改建南竿機場的存廢以及馬祖大橋如何克服困難這都是三件同時存在的問題\n\n39\n00:16:57,967 --> 00:17:25,257\n那現在左手是北竿機場的改建這個是已經看到而且勢必在做的而且馬祖大橋會牽動到南竿機場的存廢的問題所以剛才我跟你報告說現在北竿機場的改善工程已經啟動了現在排序排下來我認為我個人認為我想應該你也認為明年應該要給一點錢吧第一期預算先編上去現場你同意不同意我想你跟賴總統報告\n\n40\n00:17:26,912 --> 00:17:55,691\n他也會答應的啦我說剛剛請說請交通部能夠跟設計單位來看目前看到的困難已經克服了所以他才會才會算出360億的預算那我們看看這個預算整個的結構看看如果他已經到了一個成熟而且對於北幹機場南幹機場問題地方上的聲音也都相當的一致的那就是到這個順序一步一步的來做下來院長明年你幫我把這個錢排進去\n\n41\n00:17:57,321 --> 00:18:14,167\n我明天就繼續選如果不排局的話我也無緣對江東復老只好告老還鄉你樂意看到這樣的結果嗎委員的當選是靠地方復老不是我編預算我的當選是靠\n\n42\n00:18:15,865 --> 00:18:44,887\n靠你們基礎建設我們一起努力把馬祖建設的更好我們一起努力這絕對是我跟委員同樣的心情我對馬祖的相信做事情不是憑口水憑口水沒有用了我想現在大家選民都很聰明嘛是不是店長拜託啦明年不管如何這個馬祖大橋的事情啊拜託一下我請交通部來詳細的規劃不可能嘛好另外跟你談一個部長你請回沒事啦才化法\n\n43\n00:18:46,864 --> 00:19:16,248\n財化法修正以後我們碰到大問題了全國各縣市全部增加金門110億我們倒扣1000萬預算編不下去現在問題來了所以我跟財政部長討論財政部長說我有修法意圖所以我在上個禮拜已經在議會裡面大概近乎二讀近乎二讀有一個月的協商期\n\n44\n00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:44,743\n11月7號可能就進入賢章期滿了這一個財化法通過以後也就是保障離島2.5%2.5%的概念是什麼我們只分到22億金門110億澎湖也是7、8、10億我們分22億雖然這個錢很少我也吞了而且我來提案我錢拿最少的來提案\n\n45\n00:19:45,561 --> 00:20:05,596\n為什麼呢因為明年預算我們現在已經到了瓶頸了變不下去了現在問題又來了這個法通過以後我相信拜託院長能夠把它付諸那財政部這邊也會從善如流能夠順利的分給我22億分給我22億原來是7.23億\n\n46\n00:20:08,735 --> 00:20:37,015\n後來你們給我7點財務法修正以後給我7.13億少了1000萬財政部把它補起來了他說我補給你嘛7.23億那補平了以後呢多了多少億多了十幾億現在一般補助款跟計畫型補助款你不給我了這第一點喔第二點我們本來配合款部分只要10%現在行政院說我們要40%\n\n47\n00:20:39,312 --> 00:21:06,895\n你知道我適時去哪裡拿所以你給我的一般補助款你給我的計畫分配我沒有配合款也就是不做了等於就是形同巨文我做不下去了所以請財政部還有行政院主席處你要注意到離島偏鄉的問題這公平性的問題所以請你要注意\n\n48\n00:21:09,264 --> 00:21:37,684\n你現在要給我們40%我們哪裡拿得出來40%的錢啊拿不出來那麼舊的就是連續性計畫的繼續性計畫的工程我們也要停擺因為你以前給我比如說3億我做了一半啦那現在還有2億你現在我自己出我現在我去哪裡拿這個2億啊我拿不出來拿不出來這個房子變成爛尾樓就擺在那個地方這個是個問題\n\n49\n00:21:39,372 --> 00:22:03,432\n所以院長請您注意到麻煩的問題好不好財化法的部分我想我跟委員共同兩個遺憾第一個遺憾就是現在現行財化法水平分配不公平才造成你剛剛說的即使三個離島都不公平離島跟台灣本島之間是絕對的不公平\n\n50\n00:22:03,892 --> 00:22:20,553\n以後有機會我們要改進這一點那第二個遺憾是當初我們在復一的時候也跟你講了計算公式有錯如果當時您支持一下復一就改過來了好那現在我們亡羊補牢委員有提出一個案子我們知道那這個案子修正案它的效率到底如何\n\n51\n00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:46,488\n修正過如何馬上可用或者是他有時間上的落差第二個是朝野各黨團內部現在的意見有沒有趨於一致還是有其他的意見就這個分配不出去的345億如何使用我們還要討論重認這個稍微緩和一點現在潮潮也大嘛對不對就緩和一點你不要積累去對抗嘛\n\n52\n00:22:47,449 --> 00:23:12,363\n很緩和我們緩和到拿出4165億了不要去硬撞火車對撞撞的結果你看看像那個凍結預算我們沒有對撞被撞而已然後對撞我們哪裡凍結預算凍結預算有什麼了你起碼讓這一些單位行政部門去解釋嘛你解釋都還沒解釋兩個總裁都在那邊吵架當時也跟你講委員當時應該有跟你說計算公式錯誤啊在復議的時候啊\n\n53\n00:23:16,650 --> 00:23:43,651\n都沒有被真正的把它當重視那個院長還有一個就是我一直我的想法我當縣長的時候就想做一個海洋牧場你沒有機會去大陸參觀我們彼岸的連江線全世界兩個連江線大陸一個連江線馬祖一個連江線他們連江線的海域啊一望無際全部都是海帶\n\n54\n00:23:46,424 --> 00:24:10,135\n海帶鮑魚養殖黃魚養了一大堆那我覺得我們馬祖的海域我們的有氧度是8到9喔他們有氧度因為種植的面積太大了他們有氧度只有2到3所以我們的水質是非常好的你看我們養的淡菜我們有淡菜好吃的太多了淡菜院長有沒有吃過\n\n55\n00:24:10,851 --> 00:24:40,173\n有我到馬祖之前去淡賽讓我回味無窮我沒有機會啊這個院長我如果送你一盒你可以收嗎沒有超過違反法令的規定我直接到馬祖去我們在當地比較新鮮你去吃的時候已經沒有了因為季節已經過了這個我想我送一些給院長品他看看真的我不是要你吃啊我是說你吃了以後覺得\n\n56\n00:24:40,936 --> 00:25:09,686\n我們馬祖生產的東西我們八到九的有氧度的東西是好的農業部一直講說要去幫我們的忙到現在我也沒看到去幫我們忙你幫他輔導你幫他導入正軌讓他企劃的經營讓觀光客到馬祖去有的吃有的住有的玩他起碼吃很重要讓吃的食物能夠豐富台灣沒有吃有馬祖有\n\n57\n00:25:10,931 --> 00:25:39,185\n這個是很重要的是不是你督促農業部在這一方面再加強一下好不好好的你看我們的造林金門是一排兩排三排的造林我們連一排都不可得啊是不是所以這個落差非常的大你看觀光人數金門突破了一百萬人了耶已經小山東突破一百萬人了包括淡菜牡蠣還有我們還是抓這個小捲還中捲是不是應該都是有那個你要找楊耀偉去澎湖吃\n\n58\n00:25:39,915 --> 00:26:07,628\n那邊有小檢、大檢、中檢都有啊馬祖雲、連綿江也有啊漁船我看大家都在那邊那個燈光就在那邊對用燈光去補對面好多喔你到晚上很漂亮很多看到海上很多整排都是大陸的船所以這個海洋牧場的構想我拜託院長我們一定會善加珍惜善用我們的海洋資源虧一些經費嘛\n\n59\n00:26:09,973 --> 00:26:36,778\n這個臨江跟金門都是我們戰略的地區但是發展當地的觀光或是跟一些過去歷史遺留下來的這個軌跡的觀光我覺得是一個特色再加上海鮮再加上當地的人文認為都是一個非常獨特的一個地區院長多重視一下不管如何金門馬祖以前是個打仗的地方我希望不要打仗我一直跟對面講不要打仗不要打仗我一直跟他講不要打仗\n\n60\n00:26:39,545 --> 00:27:00,297\n他們要來打啦我們不會跟他打仗當選主席你們又在擔心我覺得他能夠跟習大大見面讓他去見面嘛見面以後也很好啊你總比現在兩邊你看看我們反中抗中兩邊不講話文統沒辦法文統的話就是武統了下來就武力\n\n61\n00:27:00,973 --> 00:27:22,111\n我們堅決反對武統你把飛機把船艦撤回去嘛不是馬祖相信台灣相信不喜歡看到這些這是一個好的建議好的開始所以他說我們是跟美中在對抗啊又不是針對台灣那我說你一直環繞著台灣海峽這也是個問題啊我常常吧你問那個邱主委\n\n62\n00:27:22,932 --> 00:27:51,836\n我常常都在幫台灣發聲我們請農業部真的把這些海洋資源善用更多的國際觀光客我想對地方的安全也是有幫助的剩下一點時間我要跟你講土地的正義軍人跟國產署佔了馬祖土地我上次講過了佔領了多少百分之七十五我們先平到馬祖來都是領海為居嘛都在海邊啊一個沃口一個沃口一個沃口\n\n63\n00:27:52,859 --> 00:28:21,203\n山上的土地都被他們弄光了所以部長你正好在這裡院長你能不能去找個單位去研究一下是法治老百姓募不釋定以前你公告我公告一個月沒來的話這個地址是公家的政府的都沒去登記你貼在我家門口我也不會去看所以現在又變成國有財政局的文財署的到現在為止還吵鬧不休\n\n64\n00:28:22,128 --> 00:28:49,373\n我從現場開始我跟你講雞犬不寧每天都是老百姓來要地現在當了立委還跑到立法院來找我也是要地土地的問題是法律的問題是不是你們國產署長我跟他吵國產署我跟他吵了多少次目前部長能夠說明部長清楚你等一下說明院長我給你一個概念\n\n65\n00:28:51,392 --> 00:29:20,571\n軍方跟國產署佔了我們75個土地我上次講過了您如果是縣長的話你對這個縣你怎麼治理你能夠發展嗎你發展不出去嘛沒有你發展的空間嘛他也不能蓋旅社啊是不是他不能蓋旅社喔有規定的喔土地問題有規定的喔他不能蓋旅館啊他沒有發展的空間馬祖部隊多少人\n\n66\n00:29:21,961 --> 00:29:35,108\n兩千多人他要那麼大的土地幹什麼我們居民一萬多人佔比只有25%你看看國產署佔的多少75%部長能不能研究一下\n\n67\n00:29:41,208 --> 00:30:09,953\n什麼處理嘛對已經登記為國有的但是民眾要申請返還的其實我們都是從寬再處理除非我們政府機關不是你設個小組研究一下好不好你研究一下這個問題好不好你在那邊講你講我講下次我再來總之又沒用了我們會再主案再來去了解每一個案子的情況我想希望院長拜託一下\n\n68\n00:30:10,834 --> 00:30:31,439\n你成立一個專案小組你要我弄個修法提案嗎不用吧我請部長提個建議上來我們來看部裡面的看法配合國防部或是內政部也要一起來討論這個相關部我們來討論看看一個建議上拜託你也希望你鄉人為國好不好好的好謝謝陳學生委員質詢謝謝卓院長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n600\t28579\t主席早安 是不是請卓院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢卓院長好久不見最近就在辛苦了\n29534\t54486\t大家都最近事情多 大家都一樣通力合作 謝謝首先跟您報告學生在從事公職人員連江縣政府待了12年 台北市政府待了13年我的民意代表深海從國大代表 縣長 立法委員一共待了26年了我想對馬祖\n57036\t78867\t基礎建設最了解的我想我是其中之一我不敢講唯一的一個今天跟院長吵架的是偏鄉離島基礎建設工程那基礎建設工程院長你答得出來我們馬祖目前最重要的基礎工程是什麼嗎最重要的\n80627\t107323\t兩項基礎工程 兩項委員會所說的是機場的改建跟改善一個是大橋的問題關係到馬祖未來百年大計我想從政者尤其從事政治尤其是首長對各縣市尤其偏鄉離島應該更加重視不會說只居住在台灣本島\n109042\t132317\t那我首先跟你談一下北竿機場第一期改善工程謝謝中央政府自從馬祖北竿機場出了兩件大事以後有注意到因為這兩座機場是全國都是兩座最危險的機場那麼中央也從善如流投資了第一期工程投資220億\n137385\t162427\t目前的進度大概縣政府的部分即將要啟動了也就是豐山那邊的垃圾場要遷移這個事情由民航局已經委託林鄉縣政府再執行這個我想不是問題第二個是民航局跑道的整建工程這也OK 這沒問題現在是民航局委託\n163963\t190135\t臺灣港澳公司進行微提工程還有開挖造地的工程這個工程時間比較久 經費也比較多我也拜託民航局局長也拜託世襲我們鄭董事長這一項工程要特別注意現在已經發包出去了由世襲顧問建造公司來承包我也拜託他們 為什麼\n191890\t218255\t這個機場對馬祖來而言是非常重要的一環但是北竿的居民卻有聲音有雜音其實我在五月末我也左思右想確實需要建造的時間要八年這八年對當地民眾因為他坐飛機要到南竿去坐要到離島要坐船過去還有通勤人員\n219469\t247764\t還有當地就業的像民航局在那邊有單位還有消防隊等等很多單位那麼這些單位怎麼辦是個問題我講後續的問題很重要這裡面前幾天我跟朋友聊天聊到台中青泉崗屏東的機場他們施工的方式用半半工什麼是半半工呢半半工就是一面施工\n248871\t276862\t一半也可以飛航這個錢可能會比較多一點為什麼因為他的工地他做消波塊跟沉箱工地不在馬祖當地做馬祖當地也缺工台灣都缺工何況離島缺得更嚴重他可以在台北港的腹地或是在高雄港的腹地來做沉箱或是做消波塊然後送到那邊去把它填海\n277699\t304255\t所以用這樣的方式,用半班的工程,可能可以縮短時間,因為他要八年到十年,這個痛苦期太長了。我想院長能不能請您協助,我已經跟他們有溝通過了,那麼世襲曾鈺萌董事長也從善如流,會朝這個方向去走,因為確實痛苦期時間太長了。我也告訴當地的民眾,\n306151\t330679\t馬祖機場基礎工程一定要完成這是百年大計我想我們沒有遠見沒有宏觀但是就我目前從政51年的經驗馬祖未來我起碼看得非常清楚我也拜託我們中央的長官不管哪一黨執政能夠重視到馬祖院長請你回答我\n332463\t347214\t謝謝委員對離島馬祖地區長時間的投入關心這個我想馬祖的居民跟全國的國人都清楚那我認為就跟現在的非洲豬瘟一樣國人同胞忍得一時\n348325\t371896\t就能夠爭取一世 忍得一段的時間爭取一個世代的大家的安穩也是一樣 我覺得馬祖的國人也是一樣忍得一段時間的痛苦我們可以爭取一個世代的進步在工程的方面 我當然要相信也要尊重工程專家 設計單位\n373777\t399766\t建造單位施工上的安全跟需求那麼在工程期間如果能夠縮短有新的工法在目前交通部跟這個設計單位來合作如果有新的工法那不影響安全當然我們可以支持那無論是工期多長在工期當中對馬祖居民在交通上所產生的一些負擔交通部也已經預先有所因應有所準備應該在\n402431\t418485\t減輕或是共同負擔的情況底下讓居民能夠在忍耐的過程當中不需要再付出更多的財務代價交通部可以做說明另外後續的一些措施你們還是要因應好不好\n421625\t437877\t報告委員 您所說的這個班班施工也很感謝您啦 特別跟建造單位 設計單位大家一起來討論這個部分我們盡量縮短 我們尊重專業啦像院長所指示的我們尊重專業但是如果可以縮短的部分我們盡量來想辦法\n438758\t466631\t腹地相對於其他的機場來說是比較小所以班班施工的空間會比較少但我們盡量縮短這是確定的目標另外您在指示的就是說我們希望對於後續的因應就是我們那邊的居民要搭船到南竿去搭飛機的時候這個部分我們跟縣政府有在合作您應該也很清楚這個部分我們會繼續來努力因為你起碼每天飛個一班把當地的居民不要\n467577\t494128\t再到旅島去坐飛機嘛飛一班的話他們當地的旅島居民可以出來那觀光客的話沒辦法降落啦觀光客要到南根機場降落以後還要坐船到北竿去我想這個衝擊比較小當然對北竿的生意啊商家啦生意會有影響那麼這個相對的配套我想請交通部要妥為因應好不好第二件要跟您談的是馬祖大橋\n495856\t521696\t最近我看到電視一直跑馬燈在跑交通部陳部長說淡江大橋馬上要合攏了明年五月份要完工我非常高興我祝福全長12公里10點多公里很像金門大橋他在蓋我是馬祖德民意代表跑到金門去幹什麼我去看金門大橋我看他怎麼蓋蓋好了沒有\n523663\t551933\t他大概是7公里還是多少5.41公里馬祖的橋只要3公里最近馬祖民眾對我沒有信心我對自己也沒有什麼信心你看看這個馬祖大橋哪一年核定的107年總統那時候時任行政院院長賴總統他批的我跑到行政院去\n553364\t582707\t我說報告院長這個橋一定要做那時候還有一些人有意見那麼賴院長不管 把他拿來 馬上案子送到我的手上他把他批了 第二天賴院長就卸任了他卸任了 我記得非常的清楚那時間經過了七年你看 經過了七年從一百多億 兩百多億上一次總諮詢的時候院長回答我說要三百多億我說院長你那個是拆的\n583659\t611101\t那國發費提供的資料什麼360億他怎麼來300多億 400多億他也沒有去海底鑽探 任何都沒有他只是聽世西的 是世西告訴他的我前幾天打電話給鄭運鵬董事長為什麼 我之前要交通部你們發個函給世西公司你到底多少錢 你給我精算出來\n612335\t637700\t你們也不關我這個有回覆到您辦公室你問了嗎 也沒問嘛沒問嘛 是不是所以有時候立委在立法院質詢我拜託大家目瞭同仁把它記下來尤其能夠在總諮詢上面提出的問題都是非常重要的不好意思 報告委員這個部分有回覆給您辦公室世西工程有核算出一個經費是360億\n640730\t667070\t有一些東西不要我一直追嘛好 那我講到這個馬祖大橋從賴院長核定可行性評估花了多少錢花了一億五千多萬啦評估的結果在工程施工度沒有問題我們國內有這樣工程的經驗經費也不是問題你從前面的蘇貞昌院長從蔡英文總統到賴總統\n670088\t694479\t經費都不受問題那最近也經過了金門大橋經過了淡江大橋我想國內的施工技術已經成熟了那有些人跟我講說如果這條橋的經費核定了你們不要找大陸去發包啊現在有法令的限制嘛我們怎麼可能找大陸來包這個工程呢大陸做的當然以他們的經驗我們也看得到的\n695077\t722441\t它工鐵大橋什麼好幾個大橋施工路比馬祖還難的都已經完成了我想這是我們國人的驕傲我們目前有這個能力來做在整個排序上 時間已經過了七年了我明年還一年 後年還一年我說我走最後一里路你不能讓我做到99歲吧我想年紀也大了一點\n724153\t751822\t怎麼會是最後一里路呢橋還沒有蓋好怎麼會有最後一里路橋是你的第一里路啊沒關係啊你要給我橋的話我就繼續幹啊你不給我橋的話我幹不下去啦院長所以明年的預算我看不到了齁起碼你明年開始嘛因為他是分十年來編列金門大橋做了十年啊分十年嘛不管是三百億四百億你一年就是投入三十億到四十億嘛這個馬祖啊\n753035\t775805\t你要去看馬祖 你到底要不要馬祖所以前一陣子金門兩棲偵察連調到澎湖去訓練我不曉得他還要不要回去我都覺得是不是台灣不要我們金門馬祖了不會 馬祖金門都是我們重要的離島而且他有戰略地位我最近還想找時間到馬祖去看看你要去看看嗎 要\n776943\t799011\t什麼時候去我陪你去好 你在那邊等我就好了委員在馬祖等我就好了你不要自己一個人跑了那院長我是說排序應該要開始啟動了我這幾年因為國內財政還有政治紛擾我都按捺住你看我在立法院有沒有跟你們發過脾氣從來沒有你看那個\n804563\t826026\t國道6號東延花蓮的特別條例通過了那你們說 行政院講說你幹什麼訂什麼特別條例啊有公務預算來出就好啦我也同意啊 OK啊但是我們是乖乖排啊你看我都沒吵也沒鬧但是你還是不給我啊是不是 你還是不給我啊交通部都有在進行啊\n826823\t855237\t不過你明年要排進去交付都有在進行而且跟設計單位都有在進度上都有在進行但總要克服一些現在我們看到的困難院長我不是說你幫我助選你起碼我任期快到了你明年這個錢排個30億40億幫我預算編進去你能不能承諾我真的民眾對我沒信心我自己對自己都沒信心我進選這件事情信任兩個字\n856618\t878524\t怎麼信任我沒辦法信任啦是不是院長你可以答應我嗎一個七年了一定要做的啦交通部來規劃啦也是要看這個設計的單位他怎麼樣來對現在看到的一些狀況他能夠按部就班有序的來進行世襲告訴我沒有問題有問題的是誰咧有問題的是都是你們大人啦你知道嗎\n882881\t900013\t不是不是 過去委員說金額還沒有算出來 預算沒有算出來就是他不曉得困難度有多大如果他至少現在360億的預算算出來了 工程預算算出來了表示他知道要克服哪些問題 我們就逐步來推動好吧 360億就360億嘛 你一年就編個36億吧 可以不可以\n903557\t932734\t交通部的預算一年七八千億啊我們現在專心的在趕北竿機場就是您剛剛所關心的那未來南竿機場其實也有改善的計畫我們交通部來說的話我們先把機場的部分我們先想辦法趕快把它做好你看桃園的一個高架橋的捷運往地下走幾百億 五百多億啊增加五百多億360億多嗎 也不多啊這是關係到馬祖未來\n933533\t960857\t當然中央這幾年馬祖有長途的進步憑良心講而且我當立法委員都是貴長在執政真的是你們執政馬祖老闆不是瞎了眼不是不了解 都了解你們給的是蠻多的但是這些年齡碎碎的工程小的基礎建設你要大方向去走的話一定馬祖大橋要把它完工院長你知道嗎你如果不去做馬祖大橋\n962227\t990588\t我請問南竿機場你要不要改善南竿機場是非常危險的那等於是在航空母艦上面降落飛機明天是媽祖升天紀我不敢回去空中非常不穩定起飛跟降落坦特不安你知道嗎 坦特不安沒有那麼安全當然我們不怕一萬只怕萬一所以這個一定要改善你如果去改善南竿機場的話\n993195\t1016808\t經費非常龐大 1000億跑不掉了你不能出了狀況以後去改善它所以你兩座機場要變成一座機場這個馬祖大橋勢在必行院長你同意不同意我的看法北竿機場的改建南竿機場的存廢以及馬祖大橋如何克服困難這都是三件同時存在的問題\n1017967\t1045257\t那現在左手是北竿機場的改建這個是已經看到而且勢必在做的而且馬祖大橋會牽動到南竿機場的存廢的問題所以剛才我跟你報告說現在北竿機場的改善工程已經啟動了現在排序排下來我認為 我個人認為我想應該你也認為明年應該要給一點錢吧第一期預算先編上去現場你同意不同意我想你跟賴總統報告\n1046912\t1075691\t他也會答應的啦我說剛剛請說請交通部能夠跟設計單位來看目前看到的困難已經克服了所以他才會才會算出360億的預算那我們看看這個預算整個的結構看看如果他已經到了一個成熟而且對於北幹機場南幹機場問題地方上的聲音也都相當的一致的那就是到這個順序一步一步的來做下來院長明年你幫我把這個錢排進去\n1077321\t1094167\t我明天就繼續選如果不排局的話我也無緣對江東復老只好告老還鄉你樂意看到這樣的結果嗎委員的當選是靠地方復老不是我編預算我的當選是靠\n1095865\t1124887\t靠你們基礎建設我們一起努力把馬祖建設的更好我們一起努力這絕對是我跟委員同樣的心情我對馬祖的相信做事情不是憑口水憑口水沒有用了我想現在大家選民都很聰明嘛是不是店長拜託啦 明年不管如何這個馬祖大橋的事情啊拜託一下我請交通部來詳細的規劃不可能嘛好 另外跟你談一個部長你請回 沒事啦才化法\n1126864\t1156248\t財化法修正以後我們碰到大問題了全國各縣市全部增加金門110億我們倒扣1000萬預算編不下去現在問題來了所以我跟財政部長討論財政部長說我有修法意圖所以我在上個禮拜已經在議會裡面大概近乎二讀近乎二讀有一個月的協商期\n1157240\t1184743\t11月7號可能就進入賢章期滿了這一個財化法通過以後也就是保障離島2.5%2.5%的概念是什麼我們只分到22億金門110億澎湖也是7、8、10億我們分22億雖然這個錢很少我也吞了而且我來提案我錢拿最少的來提案\n1185561\t1205596\t為什麼呢 因為明年預算我們現在已經到了瓶頸了變不下去了現在問題又來了這個法通過以後我相信拜託院長能夠把它付諸那財政部這邊也會從善如流能夠順利的分給我22億分給我22億原來是7.23億\n1208735\t1237015\t後來你們給我7點 財務法修正以後給我7.13億少了1000萬財政部把它補起來了他說我補給你嘛 7.23億那補平了以後呢多了多少億 多了十幾億現在一般補助款跟計畫型補助款你不給我了這第一點喔第二點 我們本來配合款部分只要10%現在行政院說我們要40%\n1239312\t1266895\t你知道我適時去哪裡拿所以你給我的一般補助款你給我的計畫分配我沒有配合款也就是不做了等於就是形同巨文 我做不下去了所以請財政部還有行政院主席處你要注意到離島偏鄉的問題這公平性的問題所以請你要注意\n1269264\t1297684\t你現在要給我們40%我們哪裡拿得出來40%的錢啊拿不出來那麼舊的就是連續性計畫的繼續性計畫的工程我們也要停擺因為你以前給我比如說3億我做了一半啦那現在還有2億你現在我自己出我現在我去哪裡拿這個2億啊我拿不出來拿不出來這個房子變成爛尾樓就擺在那個地方這個是個問題\n1299372\t1323432\t所以院長請您注意到麻煩的問題好不好財化法的部分 我想我跟委員共同兩個遺憾第一個遺憾就是現在現行財化法水平分配不公平才造成你剛剛說的 即使三個離島都不公平離島跟台灣本島之間是絕對的不公平\n1323892\t1340553\t以後有機會我們要改進這一點那第二個遺憾是當初我們在復一的時候也跟你講了計算公式有錯如果當時您支持一下復一就改過來了好那現在我們亡羊補牢委員有提出一個案子我們知道那這個案子修正案它的效率到底如何\n1341440\t1366488\t修正過如何馬上可用 或者是他有時間上的落差第二個是朝野各黨團內部現在的意見有沒有趨於一致還是有其他的意見就這個分配不出去的345億如何使用我們還要討論重認這個稍微緩和一點現在潮潮也大嘛 對不對就緩和一點 你不要積累去對抗嘛\n1367449\t1392363\t很緩和 我們緩和到拿出4165億了不要去硬撞 火車對撞撞的結果你看看像那個凍結預算我們沒有對撞 被撞而已然後對撞我們哪裡凍結預算 凍結預算有什麼了你起碼讓這一些單位 行政部門去解釋嘛你解釋都還沒解釋 兩個總裁都在那邊吵架當時也跟你講委員當時應該有跟你說計算公式錯誤啊在復議的時候啊\n1396650\t1423651\t都沒有被真正的把它當重視那個院長還有一個就是我一直我的想法我當縣長的時候就想做一個海洋牧場你沒有機會去大陸參觀我們彼岸的連江線全世界兩個連江線大陸一個連江線 馬祖一個連江線他們連江線的海域啊一望無際 全部都是海帶\n1426424\t1450135\t海帶鮑魚養殖黃魚養了一大堆那我覺得我們馬祖的海域我們的有氧度是8到9喔他們有氧度因為種植的面積太大了他們有氧度只有2到3所以我們的水質是非常好的你看我們養的淡菜我們有淡菜好吃的太多了淡菜院長有沒有吃過\n1450851\t1480173\t有我到馬祖之前去淡賽讓我回味無窮我沒有機會啊這個院長我如果送你一盒你可以收嗎沒有超過違反法令的規定我直接到馬祖去我們在當地比較新鮮你去吃的時候已經沒有了因為季節已經過了這個我想我送一些給院長品他看看真的我不是要你吃啊我是說你吃了以後覺得\n1480936\t1509686\t我們馬祖生產的東西我們八到九的有氧度的東西是好的農業部一直講說要去幫我們的忙到現在我也沒看到去幫我們忙你幫他輔導你幫他導入正軌讓他企劃的經營讓觀光客到馬祖去有的吃有的住有的玩他起碼吃很重要讓吃的食物能夠豐富台灣沒有吃有馬祖有\n1510931\t1539185\t這個是很重要的 是不是你督促農業部在這一方面再加強一下好不好好的 你看我們的造林金門是一排 兩排 三排的造林我們連一排都不可得啊是不是 所以這個落差非常的大你看觀光人數 金門突破了一百萬人了耶已經小山東突破一百萬人了包括淡菜 牡蠣 還有我們還是抓這個小捲還中捲是不是 應該都是有那個你要找楊耀偉去澎湖吃\n1539915\t1567628\t那邊有小檢、大檢、中檢都有啊馬祖雲、連綿江也有啊漁船我看大家都在那邊那個燈光就在那邊對 用燈光去補對面好多喔 你到晚上很漂亮很多 看到海上很多整排都是大陸的船所以這個海洋牧場的構想我拜託院長我們一定會善加珍惜 善用我們的海洋資源虧一些經費嘛\n1569973\t1596778\t這個臨江跟金門都是我們戰略的地區但是發展當地的觀光或是跟一些過去歷史遺留下來的這個軌跡的觀光我覺得是一個特色再加上海鮮 再加上當地的人文認為都是一個非常獨特的一個地區院長 多重視一下不管如何金門馬祖以前是個打仗的地方我希望不要打仗我一直跟對面講不要打仗不要打仗我一直跟他講不要打仗\n1599545\t1620297\t他們要來打啦 我們不會跟他打仗當選主席 你們又在擔心我覺得他能夠跟習大大見面 讓他去見面嘛見面以後也很好啊你總比現在兩邊 你看看我們反中抗中 兩邊不講話文統沒辦法文統的話就是武統了 下來就武力\n1620973\t1642111\t我們堅決反對武統你把飛機把船艦撤回去嘛不是馬祖相信 台灣相信不喜歡看到這些這是一個好的建議 好的開始所以他說我們是跟美中在對抗啊又不是針對台灣那我說你一直環繞著台灣海峽這也是個問題啊我常常吧 你問那個邱主委\n1642932\t1671836\t我常常都在幫台灣發聲我們請農業部真的把這些海洋資源善用更多的國際觀光客我想對地方的安全也是有幫助的剩下一點時間我要跟你講土地的正義軍人跟國產署佔了馬祖土地我上次講過了佔領了多少百分之七十五我們先平到馬祖來都是領海為居嘛都在海邊啊一個沃口一個沃口一個沃口\n1672859\t1701203\t山上的土地都被他們弄光了所以部長你正好在這裡院長你能不能去找個單位去研究一下是法治老百姓募不釋定以前你公告我公告一個月沒來的話這個地址是公家的 政府的都沒去登記你貼在我家門口我也不會去看所以現在又變成國有財政局的 文財署的到現在為止還吵鬧不休\n1702128\t1729373\t我從現場開始我跟你講 雞犬不寧每天都是老百姓來要地現在當了立委還跑到立法院來找我也是要地土地的問題是法律的問題是不是你們國產署長我跟他吵國產署我跟他吵了多少次目前部長能夠說明 部長清楚你等一下說明 院長我給你一個概念\n1731392\t1760571\t軍方跟國產署佔了我們75個土地我上次講過了您如果是縣長的話你對這個縣你怎麼治理你能夠發展嗎你發展不出去嘛沒有你發展的空間嘛他也不能蓋旅社啊是不是 他不能蓋旅社喔有規定的喔 土地問題有規定的喔他不能蓋旅館啊他沒有發展的空間馬祖部隊多少人\n1761961\t1775108\t兩千多人 他要那麼大的土地幹什麼我們居民一萬多人 佔比只有25%你看看國產署佔的多少 75%部長 能不能研究一下\n1781208\t1809953\t什麼處理嘛對已經登記為國有的但是民眾要申請返還的其實我們都是從寬再處理除非我們政府機關不是 你設個小組研究一下好不好你研究一下這個問題好不好你在那邊講你講我講 下次我再來總之又沒用了我們會再主案再來去了解每一個案子的情況我想希望院長拜託一下\n1810834\t1831439\t你成立一個專案小組你要我弄個修法提案嗎 不用吧我請部長提個建議上來我們來看部裡面的看法配合國防部或是內政部也要一起來討論這個相關部我們來討論看看一個建議上拜託你 也希望你 鄉人為國 好不好好的好 謝謝陳學生委員質詢謝謝卓院長\n","txt":"主席早安 是不是請卓院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢卓院長好久不見最近就在辛苦了\n大家都最近事情多 大家都一樣通力合作 謝謝首先跟您報告學生在從事公職人員連江縣政府待了12年 台北市政府待了13年我的民意代表深海從國大代表 縣長 立法委員一共待了26年了我想對馬祖\n基礎建設最了解的我想我是其中之一我不敢講唯一的一個今天跟院長吵架的是偏鄉離島基礎建設工程那基礎建設工程院長你答得出來我們馬祖目前最重要的基礎工程是什麼嗎最重要的\n兩項基礎工程 兩項委員會所說的是機場的改建跟改善一個是大橋的問題關係到馬祖未來百年大計我想從政者尤其從事政治尤其是首長對各縣市尤其偏鄉離島應該更加重視不會說只居住在台灣本島\n那我首先跟你談一下北竿機場第一期改善工程謝謝中央政府自從馬祖北竿機場出了兩件大事以後有注意到因為這兩座機場是全國都是兩座最危險的機場那麼中央也從善如流投資了第一期工程投資220億\n目前的進度大概縣政府的部分即將要啟動了也就是豐山那邊的垃圾場要遷移這個事情由民航局已經委託林鄉縣政府再執行這個我想不是問題第二個是民航局跑道的整建工程這也OK 這沒問題現在是民航局委託\n臺灣港澳公司進行微提工程還有開挖造地的工程這個工程時間比較久 經費也比較多我也拜託民航局局長也拜託世襲我們鄭董事長這一項工程要特別注意現在已經發包出去了由世襲顧問建造公司來承包我也拜託他們 為什麼\n這個機場對馬祖來而言是非常重要的一環但是北竿的居民卻有聲音有雜音其實我在五月末我也左思右想確實需要建造的時間要八年這八年對當地民眾因為他坐飛機要到南竿去坐要到離島要坐船過去還有通勤人員\n還有當地就業的像民航局在那邊有單位還有消防隊等等很多單位那麼這些單位怎麼辦是個問題我講後續的問題很重要這裡面前幾天我跟朋友聊天聊到台中青泉崗屏東的機場他們施工的方式用半半工什麼是半半工呢半半工就是一面施工\n一半也可以飛航這個錢可能會比較多一點為什麼因為他的工地他做消波塊跟沉箱工地不在馬祖當地做馬祖當地也缺工台灣都缺工何況離島缺得更嚴重他可以在台北港的腹地或是在高雄港的腹地來做沉箱或是做消波塊然後送到那邊去把它填海\n所以用這樣的方式,用半班的工程,可能可以縮短時間,因為他要八年到十年,這個痛苦期太長了。我想院長能不能請您協助,我已經跟他們有溝通過了,那麼世襲曾鈺萌董事長也從善如流,會朝這個方向去走,因為確實痛苦期時間太長了。我也告訴當地的民眾,\n馬祖機場基礎工程一定要完成這是百年大計我想我們沒有遠見沒有宏觀但是就我目前從政51年的經驗馬祖未來我起碼看得非常清楚我也拜託我們中央的長官不管哪一黨執政能夠重視到馬祖院長請你回答我\n謝謝委員對離島馬祖地區長時間的投入關心這個我想馬祖的居民跟全國的國人都清楚那我認為就跟現在的非洲豬瘟一樣國人同胞忍得一時\n就能夠爭取一世 忍得一段的時間爭取一個世代的大家的安穩也是一樣 我覺得馬祖的國人也是一樣忍得一段時間的痛苦我們可以爭取一個世代的進步在工程的方面 我當然要相信也要尊重工程專家 設計單位\n建造單位施工上的安全跟需求那麼在工程期間如果能夠縮短有新的工法在目前交通部跟這個設計單位來合作如果有新的工法那不影響安全當然我們可以支持那無論是工期多長在工期當中對馬祖居民在交通上所產生的一些負擔交通部也已經預先有所因應有所準備應該在\n減輕或是共同負擔的情況底下讓居民能夠在忍耐的過程當中不需要再付出更多的財務代價交通部可以做說明另外後續的一些措施你們還是要因應好不好\n報告委員 您所說的這個班班施工也很感謝您啦 特別跟建造單位 設計單位大家一起來討論這個部分我們盡量縮短 我們尊重專業啦像院長所指示的我們尊重專業但是如果可以縮短的部分我們盡量來想辦法\n腹地相對於其他的機場來說是比較小所以班班施工的空間會比較少但我們盡量縮短這是確定的目標另外您在指示的就是說我們希望對於後續的因應就是我們那邊的居民要搭船到南竿去搭飛機的時候這個部分我們跟縣政府有在合作您應該也很清楚這個部分我們會繼續來努力因為你起碼每天飛個一班把當地的居民不要\n再到旅島去坐飛機嘛飛一班的話他們當地的旅島居民可以出來那觀光客的話沒辦法降落啦觀光客要到南根機場降落以後還要坐船到北竿去我想這個衝擊比較小當然對北竿的生意啊商家啦生意會有影響那麼這個相對的配套我想請交通部要妥為因應好不好第二件要跟您談的是馬祖大橋\n最近我看到電視一直跑馬燈在跑交通部陳部長說淡江大橋馬上要合攏了明年五月份要完工我非常高興我祝福全長12公里10點多公里很像金門大橋他在蓋我是馬祖德民意代表跑到金門去幹什麼我去看金門大橋我看他怎麼蓋蓋好了沒有\n他大概是7公里還是多少5.41公里馬祖的橋只要3公里最近馬祖民眾對我沒有信心我對自己也沒有什麼信心你看看這個馬祖大橋哪一年核定的107年總統那時候時任行政院院長賴總統他批的我跑到行政院去\n我說報告院長這個橋一定要做那時候還有一些人有意見那麼賴院長不管 把他拿來 馬上案子送到我的手上他把他批了 第二天賴院長就卸任了他卸任了 我記得非常的清楚那時間經過了七年你看 經過了七年從一百多億 兩百多億上一次總諮詢的時候院長回答我說要三百多億我說院長你那個是拆的\n那國發費提供的資料什麼360億他怎麼來300多億 400多億他也沒有去海底鑽探 任何都沒有他只是聽世西的 是世西告訴他的我前幾天打電話給鄭運鵬董事長為什麼 我之前要交通部你們發個函給世西公司你到底多少錢 你給我精算出來\n你們也不關我這個有回覆到您辦公室你問了嗎 也沒問嘛沒問嘛 是不是所以有時候立委在立法院質詢我拜託大家目瞭同仁把它記下來尤其能夠在總諮詢上面提出的問題都是非常重要的不好意思 報告委員這個部分有回覆給您辦公室世西工程有核算出一個經費是360億\n有一些東西不要我一直追嘛好 那我講到這個馬祖大橋從賴院長核定可行性評估花了多少錢花了一億五千多萬啦評估的結果在工程施工度沒有問題我們國內有這樣工程的經驗經費也不是問題你從前面的蘇貞昌院長從蔡英文總統到賴總統\n經費都不受問題那最近也經過了金門大橋經過了淡江大橋我想國內的施工技術已經成熟了那有些人跟我講說如果這條橋的經費核定了你們不要找大陸去發包啊現在有法令的限制嘛我們怎麼可能找大陸來包這個工程呢大陸做的當然以他們的經驗我們也看得到的\n它工鐵大橋什麼好幾個大橋施工路比馬祖還難的都已經完成了我想這是我們國人的驕傲我們目前有這個能力來做在整個排序上 時間已經過了七年了我明年還一年 後年還一年我說我走最後一里路你不能讓我做到99歲吧我想年紀也大了一點\n怎麼會是最後一里路呢橋還沒有蓋好怎麼會有最後一里路橋是你的第一里路啊沒關係啊你要給我橋的話我就繼續幹啊你不給我橋的話我幹不下去啦院長所以明年的預算我看不到了齁起碼你明年開始嘛因為他是分十年來編列金門大橋做了十年啊分十年嘛不管是三百億四百億你一年就是投入三十億到四十億嘛這個馬祖啊\n你要去看馬祖 你到底要不要馬祖所以前一陣子金門兩棲偵察連調到澎湖去訓練我不曉得他還要不要回去我都覺得是不是台灣不要我們金門馬祖了不會 馬祖金門都是我們重要的離島而且他有戰略地位我最近還想找時間到馬祖去看看你要去看看嗎 要\n什麼時候去我陪你去好 你在那邊等我就好了委員在馬祖等我就好了你不要自己一個人跑了那院長我是說排序應該要開始啟動了我這幾年因為國內財政還有政治紛擾我都按捺住你看我在立法院有沒有跟你們發過脾氣從來沒有你看那個\n國道6號東延花蓮的特別條例通過了那你們說 行政院講說你幹什麼訂什麼特別條例啊有公務預算來出就好啦我也同意啊 OK啊但是我們是乖乖排啊你看我都沒吵也沒鬧但是你還是不給我啊是不是 你還是不給我啊交通部都有在進行啊\n不過你明年要排進去交付都有在進行而且跟設計單位都有在進度上都有在進行但總要克服一些現在我們看到的困難院長我不是說你幫我助選你起碼我任期快到了你明年這個錢排個30億40億幫我預算編進去你能不能承諾我真的民眾對我沒信心我自己對自己都沒信心我進選這件事情信任兩個字\n怎麼信任我沒辦法信任啦是不是院長你可以答應我嗎一個七年了一定要做的啦交通部來規劃啦也是要看這個設計的單位他怎麼樣來對現在看到的一些狀況他能夠按部就班有序的來進行世襲告訴我沒有問題有問題的是誰咧有問題的是都是你們大人啦你知道嗎\n不是不是 過去委員說金額還沒有算出來 預算沒有算出來就是他不曉得困難度有多大如果他至少現在360億的預算算出來了 工程預算算出來了表示他知道要克服哪些問題 我們就逐步來推動好吧 360億就360億嘛 你一年就編個36億吧 可以不可以\n交通部的預算一年七八千億啊我們現在專心的在趕北竿機場就是您剛剛所關心的那未來南竿機場其實也有改善的計畫我們交通部來說的話我們先把機場的部分我們先想辦法趕快把它做好你看桃園的一個高架橋的捷運往地下走幾百億 五百多億啊增加五百多億360億多嗎 也不多啊這是關係到馬祖未來\n當然中央這幾年馬祖有長途的進步憑良心講而且我當立法委員都是貴長在執政真的是你們執政馬祖老闆不是瞎了眼不是不了解 都了解你們給的是蠻多的但是這些年齡碎碎的工程小的基礎建設你要大方向去走的話一定馬祖大橋要把它完工院長你知道嗎你如果不去做馬祖大橋\n我請問南竿機場你要不要改善南竿機場是非常危險的那等於是在航空母艦上面降落飛機明天是媽祖升天紀我不敢回去空中非常不穩定起飛跟降落坦特不安你知道嗎 坦特不安沒有那麼安全當然我們不怕一萬只怕萬一所以這個一定要改善你如果去改善南竿機場的話\n經費非常龐大 1000億跑不掉了你不能出了狀況以後去改善它所以你兩座機場要變成一座機場這個馬祖大橋勢在必行院長你同意不同意我的看法北竿機場的改建南竿機場的存廢以及馬祖大橋如何克服困難這都是三件同時存在的問題\n那現在左手是北竿機場的改建這個是已經看到而且勢必在做的而且馬祖大橋會牽動到南竿機場的存廢的問題所以剛才我跟你報告說現在北竿機場的改善工程已經啟動了現在排序排下來我認為 我個人認為我想應該你也認為明年應該要給一點錢吧第一期預算先編上去現場你同意不同意我想你跟賴總統報告\n他也會答應的啦我說剛剛請說請交通部能夠跟設計單位來看目前看到的困難已經克服了所以他才會才會算出360億的預算那我們看看這個預算整個的結構看看如果他已經到了一個成熟而且對於北幹機場南幹機場問題地方上的聲音也都相當的一致的那就是到這個順序一步一步的來做下來院長明年你幫我把這個錢排進去\n我明天就繼續選如果不排局的話我也無緣對江東復老只好告老還鄉你樂意看到這樣的結果嗎委員的當選是靠地方復老不是我編預算我的當選是靠\n靠你們基礎建設我們一起努力把馬祖建設的更好我們一起努力這絕對是我跟委員同樣的心情我對馬祖的相信做事情不是憑口水憑口水沒有用了我想現在大家選民都很聰明嘛是不是店長拜託啦 明年不管如何這個馬祖大橋的事情啊拜託一下我請交通部來詳細的規劃不可能嘛好 另外跟你談一個部長你請回 沒事啦才化法\n財化法修正以後我們碰到大問題了全國各縣市全部增加金門110億我們倒扣1000萬預算編不下去現在問題來了所以我跟財政部長討論財政部長說我有修法意圖所以我在上個禮拜已經在議會裡面大概近乎二讀近乎二讀有一個月的協商期\n11月7號可能就進入賢章期滿了這一個財化法通過以後也就是保障離島2.5%2.5%的概念是什麼我們只分到22億金門110億澎湖也是7、8、10億我們分22億雖然這個錢很少我也吞了而且我來提案我錢拿最少的來提案\n為什麼呢 因為明年預算我們現在已經到了瓶頸了變不下去了現在問題又來了這個法通過以後我相信拜託院長能夠把它付諸那財政部這邊也會從善如流能夠順利的分給我22億分給我22億原來是7.23億\n後來你們給我7點 財務法修正以後給我7.13億少了1000萬財政部把它補起來了他說我補給你嘛 7.23億那補平了以後呢多了多少億 多了十幾億現在一般補助款跟計畫型補助款你不給我了這第一點喔第二點 我們本來配合款部分只要10%現在行政院說我們要40%\n你知道我適時去哪裡拿所以你給我的一般補助款你給我的計畫分配我沒有配合款也就是不做了等於就是形同巨文 我做不下去了所以請財政部還有行政院主席處你要注意到離島偏鄉的問題這公平性的問題所以請你要注意\n你現在要給我們40%我們哪裡拿得出來40%的錢啊拿不出來那麼舊的就是連續性計畫的繼續性計畫的工程我們也要停擺因為你以前給我比如說3億我做了一半啦那現在還有2億你現在我自己出我現在我去哪裡拿這個2億啊我拿不出來拿不出來這個房子變成爛尾樓就擺在那個地方這個是個問題\n所以院長請您注意到麻煩的問題好不好財化法的部分 我想我跟委員共同兩個遺憾第一個遺憾就是現在現行財化法水平分配不公平才造成你剛剛說的 即使三個離島都不公平離島跟台灣本島之間是絕對的不公平\n以後有機會我們要改進這一點那第二個遺憾是當初我們在復一的時候也跟你講了計算公式有錯如果當時您支持一下復一就改過來了好那現在我們亡羊補牢委員有提出一個案子我們知道那這個案子修正案它的效率到底如何\n修正過如何馬上可用 或者是他有時間上的落差第二個是朝野各黨團內部現在的意見有沒有趨於一致還是有其他的意見就這個分配不出去的345億如何使用我們還要討論重認這個稍微緩和一點現在潮潮也大嘛 對不對就緩和一點 你不要積累去對抗嘛\n很緩和 我們緩和到拿出4165億了不要去硬撞 火車對撞撞的結果你看看像那個凍結預算我們沒有對撞 被撞而已然後對撞我們哪裡凍結預算 凍結預算有什麼了你起碼讓這一些單位 行政部門去解釋嘛你解釋都還沒解釋 兩個總裁都在那邊吵架當時也跟你講委員當時應該有跟你說計算公式錯誤啊在復議的時候啊\n都沒有被真正的把它當重視那個院長還有一個就是我一直我的想法我當縣長的時候就想做一個海洋牧場你沒有機會去大陸參觀我們彼岸的連江線全世界兩個連江線大陸一個連江線 馬祖一個連江線他們連江線的海域啊一望無際 全部都是海帶\n海帶鮑魚養殖黃魚養了一大堆那我覺得我們馬祖的海域我們的有氧度是8到9喔他們有氧度因為種植的面積太大了他們有氧度只有2到3所以我們的水質是非常好的你看我們養的淡菜我們有淡菜好吃的太多了淡菜院長有沒有吃過\n有我到馬祖之前去淡賽讓我回味無窮我沒有機會啊這個院長我如果送你一盒你可以收嗎沒有超過違反法令的規定我直接到馬祖去我們在當地比較新鮮你去吃的時候已經沒有了因為季節已經過了這個我想我送一些給院長品他看看真的我不是要你吃啊我是說你吃了以後覺得\n我們馬祖生產的東西我們八到九的有氧度的東西是好的農業部一直講說要去幫我們的忙到現在我也沒看到去幫我們忙你幫他輔導你幫他導入正軌讓他企劃的經營讓觀光客到馬祖去有的吃有的住有的玩他起碼吃很重要讓吃的食物能夠豐富台灣沒有吃有馬祖有\n這個是很重要的 是不是你督促農業部在這一方面再加強一下好不好好的 你看我們的造林金門是一排 兩排 三排的造林我們連一排都不可得啊是不是 所以這個落差非常的大你看觀光人數 金門突破了一百萬人了耶已經小山東突破一百萬人了包括淡菜 牡蠣 還有我們還是抓這個小捲還中捲是不是 應該都是有那個你要找楊耀偉去澎湖吃\n那邊有小檢、大檢、中檢都有啊馬祖雲、連綿江也有啊漁船我看大家都在那邊那個燈光就在那邊對 用燈光去補對面好多喔 你到晚上很漂亮很多 看到海上很多整排都是大陸的船所以這個海洋牧場的構想我拜託院長我們一定會善加珍惜 善用我們的海洋資源虧一些經費嘛\n這個臨江跟金門都是我們戰略的地區但是發展當地的觀光或是跟一些過去歷史遺留下來的這個軌跡的觀光我覺得是一個特色再加上海鮮 再加上當地的人文認為都是一個非常獨特的一個地區院長 多重視一下不管如何金門馬祖以前是個打仗的地方我希望不要打仗我一直跟對面講不要打仗不要打仗我一直跟他講不要打仗\n他們要來打啦 我們不會跟他打仗當選主席 你們又在擔心我覺得他能夠跟習大大見面 讓他去見面嘛見面以後也很好啊你總比現在兩邊 你看看我們反中抗中 兩邊不講話文統沒辦法文統的話就是武統了 下來就武力\n我們堅決反對武統你把飛機把船艦撤回去嘛不是馬祖相信 台灣相信不喜歡看到這些這是一個好的建議 好的開始所以他說我們是跟美中在對抗啊又不是針對台灣那我說你一直環繞著台灣海峽這也是個問題啊我常常吧 你問那個邱主委\n我常常都在幫台灣發聲我們請農業部真的把這些海洋資源善用更多的國際觀光客我想對地方的安全也是有幫助的剩下一點時間我要跟你講土地的正義軍人跟國產署佔了馬祖土地我上次講過了佔領了多少百分之七十五我們先平到馬祖來都是領海為居嘛都在海邊啊一個沃口一個沃口一個沃口\n山上的土地都被他們弄光了所以部長你正好在這裡院長你能不能去找個單位去研究一下是法治老百姓募不釋定以前你公告我公告一個月沒來的話這個地址是公家的 政府的都沒去登記你貼在我家門口我也不會去看所以現在又變成國有財政局的 文財署的到現在為止還吵鬧不休\n我從現場開始我跟你講 雞犬不寧每天都是老百姓來要地現在當了立委還跑到立法院來找我也是要地土地的問題是法律的問題是不是你們國產署長我跟他吵國產署我跟他吵了多少次目前部長能夠說明 部長清楚你等一下說明 院長我給你一個概念\n軍方跟國產署佔了我們75個土地我上次講過了您如果是縣長的話你對這個縣你怎麼治理你能夠發展嗎你發展不出去嘛沒有你發展的空間嘛他也不能蓋旅社啊是不是 他不能蓋旅社喔有規定的喔 土地問題有規定的喔他不能蓋旅館啊他沒有發展的空間馬祖部隊多少人\n兩千多人 他要那麼大的土地幹什麼我們居民一萬多人 佔比只有25%你看看國產署佔的多少 75%部長 能不能研究一下\n什麼處理嘛對已經登記為國有的但是民眾要申請返還的其實我們都是從寬再處理除非我們政府機關不是 你設個小組研究一下好不好你研究一下這個問題好不好你在那邊講你講我講 下次我再來總之又沒用了我們會再主案再來去了解每一個案子的情況我想希望院長拜託一下\n你成立一個專案小組你要我弄個修法提案嗎 不用吧我請部長提個建議上來我們來看部裡面的看法配合國防部或是內政部也要一起來討論這個相關部我們來討論看看一個建議上拜託你 也希望你 鄉人為國 好不好好的好 謝謝陳學生委員質詢謝謝卓院長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.600 --> 00:28.579\n主席早安是不是請卓院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢卓院長好久不見最近就在辛苦了\n\n00:29.534 --> 00:54.486\n大家都最近事情多大家都一樣通力合作謝謝首先跟您報告學生在從事公職人員連江縣政府待了12年台北市政府待了13年我的民意代表深海從國大代表縣長立法委員一共待了26年了我想對馬祖\n\n00:57.036 --> 01:18.867\n基礎建設最了解的我想我是其中之一我不敢講唯一的一個今天跟院長吵架的是偏鄉離島基礎建設工程那基礎建設工程院長你答得出來我們馬祖目前最重要的基礎工程是什麼嗎最重要的\n\n01:20.627 --> 01:47.323\n兩項基礎工程兩項委員會所說的是機場的改建跟改善一個是大橋的問題關係到馬祖未來百年大計我想從政者尤其從事政治尤其是首長對各縣市尤其偏鄉離島應該更加重視不會說只居住在台灣本島\n\n01:49.042 --> 02:12.317\n那我首先跟你談一下北竿機場第一期改善工程謝謝中央政府自從馬祖北竿機場出了兩件大事以後有注意到因為這兩座機場是全國都是兩座最危險的機場那麼中央也從善如流投資了第一期工程投資220億\n\n02:17.385 --> 02:42.427\n目前的進度大概縣政府的部分即將要啟動了也就是豐山那邊的垃圾場要遷移這個事情由民航局已經委託林鄉縣政府再執行這個我想不是問題第二個是民航局跑道的整建工程這也OK這沒問題現在是民航局委託\n\n02:43.963 --> 03:10.135\n臺灣港澳公司進行微提工程還有開挖造地的工程這個工程時間比較久經費也比較多我也拜託民航局局長也拜託世襲我們鄭董事長這一項工程要特別注意現在已經發包出去了由世襲顧問建造公司來承包我也拜託他們為什麼\n\n03:11.890 --> 03:38.255\n這個機場對馬祖來而言是非常重要的一環但是北竿的居民卻有聲音有雜音其實我在五月末我也左思右想確實需要建造的時間要八年這八年對當地民眾因為他坐飛機要到南竿去坐要到離島要坐船過去還有通勤人員\n\n03:39.469 --> 04:07.764\n還有當地就業的像民航局在那邊有單位還有消防隊等等很多單位那麼這些單位怎麼辦是個問題我講後續的問題很重要這裡面前幾天我跟朋友聊天聊到台中青泉崗屏東的機場他們施工的方式用半半工什麼是半半工呢半半工就是一面施工\n\n04:08.871 --> 04:36.862\n一半也可以飛航這個錢可能會比較多一點為什麼因為他的工地他做消波塊跟沉箱工地不在馬祖當地做馬祖當地也缺工台灣都缺工何況離島缺得更嚴重他可以在台北港的腹地或是在高雄港的腹地來做沉箱或是做消波塊然後送到那邊去把它填海\n\n04:37.699 --> 05:04.255\n所以用這樣的方式,用半班的工程,可能可以縮短時間,因為他要八年到十年,這個痛苦期太長了。我想院長能不能請您協助,我已經跟他們有溝通過了,那麼世襲曾鈺萌董事長也從善如流,會朝這個方向去走,因為確實痛苦期時間太長了。我也告訴當地的民眾,\n\n05:06.151 --> 05:30.679\n馬祖機場基礎工程一定要完成這是百年大計我想我們沒有遠見沒有宏觀但是就我目前從政51年的經驗馬祖未來我起碼看得非常清楚我也拜託我們中央的長官不管哪一黨執政能夠重視到馬祖院長請你回答我\n\n05:32.463 --> 05:47.214\n謝謝委員對離島馬祖地區長時間的投入關心這個我想馬祖的居民跟全國的國人都清楚那我認為就跟現在的非洲豬瘟一樣國人同胞忍得一時\n\n05:48.325 --> 06:11.896\n就能夠爭取一世忍得一段的時間爭取一個世代的大家的安穩也是一樣我覺得馬祖的國人也是一樣忍得一段時間的痛苦我們可以爭取一個世代的進步在工程的方面我當然要相信也要尊重工程專家設計單位\n\n06:13.777 --> 06:39.766\n建造單位施工上的安全跟需求那麼在工程期間如果能夠縮短有新的工法在目前交通部跟這個設計單位來合作如果有新的工法那不影響安全當然我們可以支持那無論是工期多長在工期當中對馬祖居民在交通上所產生的一些負擔交通部也已經預先有所因應有所準備應該在\n\n06:42.431 --> 06:58.485\n減輕或是共同負擔的情況底下讓居民能夠在忍耐的過程當中不需要再付出更多的財務代價交通部可以做說明另外後續的一些措施你們還是要因應好不好\n\n07:01.625 --> 07:17.877\n報告委員您所說的這個班班施工也很感謝您啦特別跟建造單位設計單位大家一起來討論這個部分我們盡量縮短我們尊重專業啦像院長所指示的我們尊重專業但是如果可以縮短的部分我們盡量來想辦法\n\n07:18.758 --> 07:46.631\n腹地相對於其他的機場來說是比較小所以班班施工的空間會比較少但我們盡量縮短這是確定的目標另外您在指示的就是說我們希望對於後續的因應就是我們那邊的居民要搭船到南竿去搭飛機的時候這個部分我們跟縣政府有在合作您應該也很清楚這個部分我們會繼續來努力因為你起碼每天飛個一班把當地的居民不要\n\n07:47.577 --> 08:14.128\n再到旅島去坐飛機嘛飛一班的話他們當地的旅島居民可以出來那觀光客的話沒辦法降落啦觀光客要到南根機場降落以後還要坐船到北竿去我想這個衝擊比較小當然對北竿的生意啊商家啦生意會有影響那麼這個相對的配套我想請交通部要妥為因應好不好第二件要跟您談的是馬祖大橋\n\n08:15.856 --> 08:41.696\n最近我看到電視一直跑馬燈在跑交通部陳部長說淡江大橋馬上要合攏了明年五月份要完工我非常高興我祝福全長12公里10點多公里很像金門大橋他在蓋我是馬祖德民意代表跑到金門去幹什麼我去看金門大橋我看他怎麼蓋蓋好了沒有\n\n08:43.663 --> 09:11.933\n他大概是7公里還是多少5.41公里馬祖的橋只要3公里最近馬祖民眾對我沒有信心我對自己也沒有什麼信心你看看這個馬祖大橋哪一年核定的107年總統那時候時任行政院院長賴總統他批的我跑到行政院去\n\n09:13.364 --> 09:42.707\n我說報告院長這個橋一定要做那時候還有一些人有意見那麼賴院長不管把他拿來馬上案子送到我的手上他把他批了第二天賴院長就卸任了他卸任了我記得非常的清楚那時間經過了七年你看經過了七年從一百多億兩百多億上一次總諮詢的時候院長回答我說要三百多億我說院長你那個是拆的\n\n09:43.659 --> 10:11.101\n那國發費提供的資料什麼360億他怎麼來300多億400多億他也沒有去海底鑽探任何都沒有他只是聽世西的是世西告訴他的我前幾天打電話給鄭運鵬董事長為什麼我之前要交通部你們發個函給世西公司你到底多少錢你給我精算出來\n\n10:12.335 --> 10:37.700\n你們也不關我這個有回覆到您辦公室你問了嗎也沒問嘛沒問嘛是不是所以有時候立委在立法院質詢我拜託大家目瞭同仁把它記下來尤其能夠在總諮詢上面提出的問題都是非常重要的不好意思報告委員這個部分有回覆給您辦公室世西工程有核算出一個經費是360億\n\n10:40.730 --> 11:07.070\n有一些東西不要我一直追嘛好那我講到這個馬祖大橋從賴院長核定可行性評估花了多少錢花了一億五千多萬啦評估的結果在工程施工度沒有問題我們國內有這樣工程的經驗經費也不是問題你從前面的蘇貞昌院長從蔡英文總統到賴總統\n\n11:10.088 --> 11:34.479\n經費都不受問題那最近也經過了金門大橋經過了淡江大橋我想國內的施工技術已經成熟了那有些人跟我講說如果這條橋的經費核定了你們不要找大陸去發包啊現在有法令的限制嘛我們怎麼可能找大陸來包這個工程呢大陸做的當然以他們的經驗我們也看得到的\n\n11:35.077 --> 12:02.441\n它工鐵大橋什麼好幾個大橋施工路比馬祖還難的都已經完成了我想這是我們國人的驕傲我們目前有這個能力來做在整個排序上時間已經過了七年了我明年還一年後年還一年我說我走最後一里路你不能讓我做到99歲吧我想年紀也大了一點\n\n12:04.153 --> 12:31.822\n怎麼會是最後一里路呢橋還沒有蓋好怎麼會有最後一里路橋是你的第一里路啊沒關係啊你要給我橋的話我就繼續幹啊你不給我橋的話我幹不下去啦院長所以明年的預算我看不到了齁起碼你明年開始嘛因為他是分十年來編列金門大橋做了十年啊分十年嘛不管是三百億四百億你一年就是投入三十億到四十億嘛這個馬祖啊\n\n12:33.035 --> 12:55.805\n你要去看馬祖你到底要不要馬祖所以前一陣子金門兩棲偵察連調到澎湖去訓練我不曉得他還要不要回去我都覺得是不是台灣不要我們金門馬祖了不會馬祖金門都是我們重要的離島而且他有戰略地位我最近還想找時間到馬祖去看看你要去看看嗎要\n\n12:56.943 --> 13:19.011\n什麼時候去我陪你去好你在那邊等我就好了委員在馬祖等我就好了你不要自己一個人跑了那院長我是說排序應該要開始啟動了我這幾年因為國內財政還有政治紛擾我都按捺住你看我在立法院有沒有跟你們發過脾氣從來沒有你看那個\n\n13:24.563 --> 13:46.026\n國道6號東延花蓮的特別條例通過了那你們說行政院講說你幹什麼訂什麼特別條例啊有公務預算來出就好啦我也同意啊OK啊但是我們是乖乖排啊你看我都沒吵也沒鬧但是你還是不給我啊是不是你還是不給我啊交通部都有在進行啊\n\n13:46.823 --> 14:15.237\n不過你明年要排進去交付都有在進行而且跟設計單位都有在進度上都有在進行但總要克服一些現在我們看到的困難院長我不是說你幫我助選你起碼我任期快到了你明年這個錢排個30億40億幫我預算編進去你能不能承諾我真的民眾對我沒信心我自己對自己都沒信心我進選這件事情信任兩個字\n\n14:16.618 --> 14:38.524\n怎麼信任我沒辦法信任啦是不是院長你可以答應我嗎一個七年了一定要做的啦交通部來規劃啦也是要看這個設計的單位他怎麼樣來對現在看到的一些狀況他能夠按部就班有序的來進行世襲告訴我沒有問題有問題的是誰咧有問題的是都是你們大人啦你知道嗎\n\n14:42.881 --> 15:00.013\n不是不是過去委員說金額還沒有算出來預算沒有算出來就是他不曉得困難度有多大如果他至少現在360億的預算算出來了工程預算算出來了表示他知道要克服哪些問題我們就逐步來推動好吧360億就360億嘛你一年就編個36億吧可以不可以\n\n15:03.557 --> 15:32.734\n交通部的預算一年七八千億啊我們現在專心的在趕北竿機場就是您剛剛所關心的那未來南竿機場其實也有改善的計畫我們交通部來說的話我們先把機場的部分我們先想辦法趕快把它做好你看桃園的一個高架橋的捷運往地下走幾百億五百多億啊增加五百多億360億多嗎也不多啊這是關係到馬祖未來\n\n15:33.533 --> 16:00.857\n當然中央這幾年馬祖有長途的進步憑良心講而且我當立法委員都是貴長在執政真的是你們執政馬祖老闆不是瞎了眼不是不了解都了解你們給的是蠻多的但是這些年齡碎碎的工程小的基礎建設你要大方向去走的話一定馬祖大橋要把它完工院長你知道嗎你如果不去做馬祖大橋\n\n16:02.227 --> 16:30.588\n我請問南竿機場你要不要改善南竿機場是非常危險的那等於是在航空母艦上面降落飛機明天是媽祖升天紀我不敢回去空中非常不穩定起飛跟降落坦特不安你知道嗎坦特不安沒有那麼安全當然我們不怕一萬只怕萬一所以這個一定要改善你如果去改善南竿機場的話\n\n16:33.195 --> 16:56.808\n經費非常龐大1000億跑不掉了你不能出了狀況以後去改善它所以你兩座機場要變成一座機場這個馬祖大橋勢在必行院長你同意不同意我的看法北竿機場的改建南竿機場的存廢以及馬祖大橋如何克服困難這都是三件同時存在的問題\n\n16:57.967 --> 17:25.257\n那現在左手是北竿機場的改建這個是已經看到而且勢必在做的而且馬祖大橋會牽動到南竿機場的存廢的問題所以剛才我跟你報告說現在北竿機場的改善工程已經啟動了現在排序排下來我認為我個人認為我想應該你也認為明年應該要給一點錢吧第一期預算先編上去現場你同意不同意我想你跟賴總統報告\n\n17:26.912 --> 17:55.691\n他也會答應的啦我說剛剛請說請交通部能夠跟設計單位來看目前看到的困難已經克服了所以他才會才會算出360億的預算那我們看看這個預算整個的結構看看如果他已經到了一個成熟而且對於北幹機場南幹機場問題地方上的聲音也都相當的一致的那就是到這個順序一步一步的來做下來院長明年你幫我把這個錢排進去\n\n17:57.321 --> 18:14.167\n我明天就繼續選如果不排局的話我也無緣對江東復老只好告老還鄉你樂意看到這樣的結果嗎委員的當選是靠地方復老不是我編預算我的當選是靠\n\n18:15.865 --> 18:44.887\n靠你們基礎建設我們一起努力把馬祖建設的更好我們一起努力這絕對是我跟委員同樣的心情我對馬祖的相信做事情不是憑口水憑口水沒有用了我想現在大家選民都很聰明嘛是不是店長拜託啦明年不管如何這個馬祖大橋的事情啊拜託一下我請交通部來詳細的規劃不可能嘛好另外跟你談一個部長你請回沒事啦才化法\n\n18:46.864 --> 19:16.248\n財化法修正以後我們碰到大問題了全國各縣市全部增加金門110億我們倒扣1000萬預算編不下去現在問題來了所以我跟財政部長討論財政部長說我有修法意圖所以我在上個禮拜已經在議會裡面大概近乎二讀近乎二讀有一個月的協商期\n\n19:17.240 --> 19:44.743\n11月7號可能就進入賢章期滿了這一個財化法通過以後也就是保障離島2.5%2.5%的概念是什麼我們只分到22億金門110億澎湖也是7、8、10億我們分22億雖然這個錢很少我也吞了而且我來提案我錢拿最少的來提案\n\n19:45.561 --> 20:05.596\n為什麼呢因為明年預算我們現在已經到了瓶頸了變不下去了現在問題又來了這個法通過以後我相信拜託院長能夠把它付諸那財政部這邊也會從善如流能夠順利的分給我22億分給我22億原來是7.23億\n\n20:08.735 --> 20:37.015\n後來你們給我7點財務法修正以後給我7.13億少了1000萬財政部把它補起來了他說我補給你嘛7.23億那補平了以後呢多了多少億多了十幾億現在一般補助款跟計畫型補助款你不給我了這第一點喔第二點我們本來配合款部分只要10%現在行政院說我們要40%\n\n20:39.312 --> 21:06.895\n你知道我適時去哪裡拿所以你給我的一般補助款你給我的計畫分配我沒有配合款也就是不做了等於就是形同巨文我做不下去了所以請財政部還有行政院主席處你要注意到離島偏鄉的問題這公平性的問題所以請你要注意\n\n21:09.264 --> 21:37.684\n你現在要給我們40%我們哪裡拿得出來40%的錢啊拿不出來那麼舊的就是連續性計畫的繼續性計畫的工程我們也要停擺因為你以前給我比如說3億我做了一半啦那現在還有2億你現在我自己出我現在我去哪裡拿這個2億啊我拿不出來拿不出來這個房子變成爛尾樓就擺在那個地方這個是個問題\n\n21:39.372 --> 22:03.432\n所以院長請您注意到麻煩的問題好不好財化法的部分我想我跟委員共同兩個遺憾第一個遺憾就是現在現行財化法水平分配不公平才造成你剛剛說的即使三個離島都不公平離島跟台灣本島之間是絕對的不公平\n\n22:03.892 --> 22:20.553\n以後有機會我們要改進這一點那第二個遺憾是當初我們在復一的時候也跟你講了計算公式有錯如果當時您支持一下復一就改過來了好那現在我們亡羊補牢委員有提出一個案子我們知道那這個案子修正案它的效率到底如何\n\n22:21.440 --> 22:46.488\n修正過如何馬上可用或者是他有時間上的落差第二個是朝野各黨團內部現在的意見有沒有趨於一致還是有其他的意見就這個分配不出去的345億如何使用我們還要討論重認這個稍微緩和一點現在潮潮也大嘛對不對就緩和一點你不要積累去對抗嘛\n\n22:47.449 --> 23:12.363\n很緩和我們緩和到拿出4165億了不要去硬撞火車對撞撞的結果你看看像那個凍結預算我們沒有對撞被撞而已然後對撞我們哪裡凍結預算凍結預算有什麼了你起碼讓這一些單位行政部門去解釋嘛你解釋都還沒解釋兩個總裁都在那邊吵架當時也跟你講委員當時應該有跟你說計算公式錯誤啊在復議的時候啊\n\n23:16.650 --> 23:43.651\n都沒有被真正的把它當重視那個院長還有一個就是我一直我的想法我當縣長的時候就想做一個海洋牧場你沒有機會去大陸參觀我們彼岸的連江線全世界兩個連江線大陸一個連江線馬祖一個連江線他們連江線的海域啊一望無際全部都是海帶\n\n23:46.424 --> 24:10.135\n海帶鮑魚養殖黃魚養了一大堆那我覺得我們馬祖的海域我們的有氧度是8到9喔他們有氧度因為種植的面積太大了他們有氧度只有2到3所以我們的水質是非常好的你看我們養的淡菜我們有淡菜好吃的太多了淡菜院長有沒有吃過\n\n24:10.851 --> 24:40.173\n有我到馬祖之前去淡賽讓我回味無窮我沒有機會啊這個院長我如果送你一盒你可以收嗎沒有超過違反法令的規定我直接到馬祖去我們在當地比較新鮮你去吃的時候已經沒有了因為季節已經過了這個我想我送一些給院長品他看看真的我不是要你吃啊我是說你吃了以後覺得\n\n24:40.936 --> 25:09.686\n我們馬祖生產的東西我們八到九的有氧度的東西是好的農業部一直講說要去幫我們的忙到現在我也沒看到去幫我們忙你幫他輔導你幫他導入正軌讓他企劃的經營讓觀光客到馬祖去有的吃有的住有的玩他起碼吃很重要讓吃的食物能夠豐富台灣沒有吃有馬祖有\n\n25:10.931 --> 25:39.185\n這個是很重要的是不是你督促農業部在這一方面再加強一下好不好好的你看我們的造林金門是一排兩排三排的造林我們連一排都不可得啊是不是所以這個落差非常的大你看觀光人數金門突破了一百萬人了耶已經小山東突破一百萬人了包括淡菜牡蠣還有我們還是抓這個小捲還中捲是不是應該都是有那個你要找楊耀偉去澎湖吃\n\n25:39.915 --> 26:07.628\n那邊有小檢、大檢、中檢都有啊馬祖雲、連綿江也有啊漁船我看大家都在那邊那個燈光就在那邊對用燈光去補對面好多喔你到晚上很漂亮很多看到海上很多整排都是大陸的船所以這個海洋牧場的構想我拜託院長我們一定會善加珍惜善用我們的海洋資源虧一些經費嘛\n\n26:09.973 --> 26:36.778\n這個臨江跟金門都是我們戰略的地區但是發展當地的觀光或是跟一些過去歷史遺留下來的這個軌跡的觀光我覺得是一個特色再加上海鮮再加上當地的人文認為都是一個非常獨特的一個地區院長多重視一下不管如何金門馬祖以前是個打仗的地方我希望不要打仗我一直跟對面講不要打仗不要打仗我一直跟他講不要打仗\n\n26:39.545 --> 27:00.297\n他們要來打啦我們不會跟他打仗當選主席你們又在擔心我覺得他能夠跟習大大見面讓他去見面嘛見面以後也很好啊你總比現在兩邊你看看我們反中抗中兩邊不講話文統沒辦法文統的話就是武統了下來就武力\n\n27:00.973 --> 27:22.111\n我們堅決反對武統你把飛機把船艦撤回去嘛不是馬祖相信台灣相信不喜歡看到這些這是一個好的建議好的開始所以他說我們是跟美中在對抗啊又不是針對台灣那我說你一直環繞著台灣海峽這也是個問題啊我常常吧你問那個邱主委\n\n27:22.932 --> 27:51.836\n我常常都在幫台灣發聲我們請農業部真的把這些海洋資源善用更多的國際觀光客我想對地方的安全也是有幫助的剩下一點時間我要跟你講土地的正義軍人跟國產署佔了馬祖土地我上次講過了佔領了多少百分之七十五我們先平到馬祖來都是領海為居嘛都在海邊啊一個沃口一個沃口一個沃口\n\n27:52.859 --> 28:21.203\n山上的土地都被他們弄光了所以部長你正好在這裡院長你能不能去找個單位去研究一下是法治老百姓募不釋定以前你公告我公告一個月沒來的話這個地址是公家的政府的都沒去登記你貼在我家門口我也不會去看所以現在又變成國有財政局的文財署的到現在為止還吵鬧不休\n\n28:22.128 --> 28:49.373\n我從現場開始我跟你講雞犬不寧每天都是老百姓來要地現在當了立委還跑到立法院來找我也是要地土地的問題是法律的問題是不是你們國產署長我跟他吵國產署我跟他吵了多少次目前部長能夠說明部長清楚你等一下說明院長我給你一個概念\n\n28:51.392 --> 29:20.571\n軍方跟國產署佔了我們75個土地我上次講過了您如果是縣長的話你對這個縣你怎麼治理你能夠發展嗎你發展不出去嘛沒有你發展的空間嘛他也不能蓋旅社啊是不是他不能蓋旅社喔有規定的喔土地問題有規定的喔他不能蓋旅館啊他沒有發展的空間馬祖部隊多少人\n\n29:21.961 --> 29:35.108\n兩千多人他要那麼大的土地幹什麼我們居民一萬多人佔比只有25%你看看國產署佔的多少75%部長能不能研究一下\n\n29:41.208 --> 30:09.953\n什麼處理嘛對已經登記為國有的但是民眾要申請返還的其實我們都是從寬再處理除非我們政府機關不是你設個小組研究一下好不好你研究一下這個問題好不好你在那邊講你講我講下次我再來總之又沒用了我們會再主案再來去了解每一個案子的情況我想希望院長拜託一下\n\n30:10.834 --> 30:31.439\n你成立一個專案小組你要我弄個修法提案嗎不用吧我請部長提個建議上來我們來看部裡面的看法配合國防部或是內政部也要一起來討論這個相關部我們來討論看看一個建議上拜託你也希望你鄉人為國好不好好的好謝謝陳學生委員質詢謝謝卓院長\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.6,"end":28.579,"text":"主席早安 是不是請卓院長麻煩請卓院長再次備詢卓院長好久不見最近就在辛苦了"},{"start":29.534,"end":54.486,"text":"大家都最近事情多 大家都一樣通力合作 謝謝首先跟您報告學生在從事公職人員連江縣政府待了12年 台北市政府待了13年我的民意代表深海從國大代表 縣長 立法委員一共待了26年了我想對馬祖"},{"start":57.036,"end":78.867,"text":"基礎建設最了解的我想我是其中之一我不敢講唯一的一個今天跟院長吵架的是偏鄉離島基礎建設工程那基礎建設工程院長你答得出來我們馬祖目前最重要的基礎工程是什麼嗎最重要的"},{"start":80.627,"end":107.323,"text":"兩項基礎工程 兩項委員會所說的是機場的改建跟改善一個是大橋的問題關係到馬祖未來百年大計我想從政者尤其從事政治尤其是首長對各縣市尤其偏鄉離島應該更加重視不會說只居住在台灣本島"},{"start":109.042,"end":132.317,"text":"那我首先跟你談一下北竿機場第一期改善工程謝謝中央政府自從馬祖北竿機場出了兩件大事以後有注意到因為這兩座機場是全國都是兩座最危險的機場那麼中央也從善如流投資了第一期工程投資220億"},{"start":137.385,"end":162.427,"text":"目前的進度大概縣政府的部分即將要啟動了也就是豐山那邊的垃圾場要遷移這個事情由民航局已經委託林鄉縣政府再執行這個我想不是問題第二個是民航局跑道的整建工程這也OK 這沒問題現在是民航局委託"},{"start":163.963,"end":190.135,"text":"臺灣港澳公司進行微提工程還有開挖造地的工程這個工程時間比較久 經費也比較多我也拜託民航局局長也拜託世襲我們鄭董事長這一項工程要特別注意現在已經發包出去了由世襲顧問建造公司來承包我也拜託他們 為什麼"},{"start":191.89,"end":218.255,"text":"這個機場對馬祖來而言是非常重要的一環但是北竿的居民卻有聲音有雜音其實我在五月末我也左思右想確實需要建造的時間要八年這八年對當地民眾因為他坐飛機要到南竿去坐要到離島要坐船過去還有通勤人員"},{"start":219.469,"end":247.764,"text":"還有當地就業的像民航局在那邊有單位還有消防隊等等很多單位那麼這些單位怎麼辦是個問題我講後續的問題很重要這裡面前幾天我跟朋友聊天聊到台中青泉崗屏東的機場他們施工的方式用半半工什麼是半半工呢半半工就是一面施工"},{"start":248.871,"end":276.862,"text":"一半也可以飛航這個錢可能會比較多一點為什麼因為他的工地他做消波塊跟沉箱工地不在馬祖當地做馬祖當地也缺工台灣都缺工何況離島缺得更嚴重他可以在台北港的腹地或是在高雄港的腹地來做沉箱或是做消波塊然後送到那邊去把它填海"},{"start":277.699,"end":304.255,"text":"所以用這樣的方式,用半班的工程,可能可以縮短時間,因為他要八年到十年,這個痛苦期太長了。我想院長能不能請您協助,我已經跟他們有溝通過了,那麼世襲曾鈺萌董事長也從善如流,會朝這個方向去走,因為確實痛苦期時間太長了。我也告訴當地的民眾,"},{"start":306.151,"end":330.679,"text":"馬祖機場基礎工程一定要完成這是百年大計我想我們沒有遠見沒有宏觀但是就我目前從政51年的經驗馬祖未來我起碼看得非常清楚我也拜託我們中央的長官不管哪一黨執政能夠重視到馬祖院長請你回答我"},{"start":332.463,"end":347.214,"text":"謝謝委員對離島馬祖地區長時間的投入關心這個我想馬祖的居民跟全國的國人都清楚那我認為就跟現在的非洲豬瘟一樣國人同胞忍得一時"},{"start":348.325,"end":371.896,"text":"就能夠爭取一世 忍得一段的時間爭取一個世代的大家的安穩也是一樣 我覺得馬祖的國人也是一樣忍得一段時間的痛苦我們可以爭取一個世代的進步在工程的方面 我當然要相信也要尊重工程專家 設計單位"},{"start":373.777,"end":399.766,"text":"建造單位施工上的安全跟需求那麼在工程期間如果能夠縮短有新的工法在目前交通部跟這個設計單位來合作如果有新的工法那不影響安全當然我們可以支持那無論是工期多長在工期當中對馬祖居民在交通上所產生的一些負擔交通部也已經預先有所因應有所準備應該在"},{"start":402.431,"end":418.485,"text":"減輕或是共同負擔的情況底下讓居民能夠在忍耐的過程當中不需要再付出更多的財務代價交通部可以做說明另外後續的一些措施你們還是要因應好不好"},{"start":421.625,"end":437.877,"text":"報告委員 您所說的這個班班施工也很感謝您啦 特別跟建造單位 設計單位大家一起來討論這個部分我們盡量縮短 我們尊重專業啦像院長所指示的我們尊重專業但是如果可以縮短的部分我們盡量來想辦法"},{"start":438.758,"end":466.631,"text":"腹地相對於其他的機場來說是比較小所以班班施工的空間會比較少但我們盡量縮短這是確定的目標另外您在指示的就是說我們希望對於後續的因應就是我們那邊的居民要搭船到南竿去搭飛機的時候這個部分我們跟縣政府有在合作您應該也很清楚這個部分我們會繼續來努力因為你起碼每天飛個一班把當地的居民不要"},{"start":467.577,"end":494.128,"text":"再到旅島去坐飛機嘛飛一班的話他們當地的旅島居民可以出來那觀光客的話沒辦法降落啦觀光客要到南根機場降落以後還要坐船到北竿去我想這個衝擊比較小當然對北竿的生意啊商家啦生意會有影響那麼這個相對的配套我想請交通部要妥為因應好不好第二件要跟您談的是馬祖大橋"},{"start":495.856,"end":521.696,"text":"最近我看到電視一直跑馬燈在跑交通部陳部長說淡江大橋馬上要合攏了明年五月份要完工我非常高興我祝福全長12公里10點多公里很像金門大橋他在蓋我是馬祖德民意代表跑到金門去幹什麼我去看金門大橋我看他怎麼蓋蓋好了沒有"},{"start":523.663,"end":551.933,"text":"他大概是7公里還是多少5.41公里馬祖的橋只要3公里最近馬祖民眾對我沒有信心我對自己也沒有什麼信心你看看這個馬祖大橋哪一年核定的107年總統那時候時任行政院院長賴總統他批的我跑到行政院去"},{"start":553.364,"end":582.707,"text":"我說報告院長這個橋一定要做那時候還有一些人有意見那麼賴院長不管 把他拿來 馬上案子送到我的手上他把他批了 第二天賴院長就卸任了他卸任了 我記得非常的清楚那時間經過了七年你看 經過了七年從一百多億 兩百多億上一次總諮詢的時候院長回答我說要三百多億我說院長你那個是拆的"},{"start":583.659,"end":611.101,"text":"那國發費提供的資料什麼360億他怎麼來300多億 400多億他也沒有去海底鑽探 任何都沒有他只是聽世西的 是世西告訴他的我前幾天打電話給鄭運鵬董事長為什麼 我之前要交通部你們發個函給世西公司你到底多少錢 你給我精算出來"},{"start":612.335,"end":637.7,"text":"你們也不關我這個有回覆到您辦公室你問了嗎 也沒問嘛沒問嘛 是不是所以有時候立委在立法院質詢我拜託大家目瞭同仁把它記下來尤其能夠在總諮詢上面提出的問題都是非常重要的不好意思 報告委員這個部分有回覆給您辦公室世西工程有核算出一個經費是360億"},{"start":640.73,"end":667.07,"text":"有一些東西不要我一直追嘛好 那我講到這個馬祖大橋從賴院長核定可行性評估花了多少錢花了一億五千多萬啦評估的結果在工程施工度沒有問題我們國內有這樣工程的經驗經費也不是問題你從前面的蘇貞昌院長從蔡英文總統到賴總統"},{"start":670.088,"end":694.479,"text":"經費都不受問題那最近也經過了金門大橋經過了淡江大橋我想國內的施工技術已經成熟了那有些人跟我講說如果這條橋的經費核定了你們不要找大陸去發包啊現在有法令的限制嘛我們怎麼可能找大陸來包這個工程呢大陸做的當然以他們的經驗我們也看得到的"},{"start":695.077,"end":722.441,"text":"它工鐵大橋什麼好幾個大橋施工路比馬祖還難的都已經完成了我想這是我們國人的驕傲我們目前有這個能力來做在整個排序上 時間已經過了七年了我明年還一年 後年還一年我說我走最後一里路你不能讓我做到99歲吧我想年紀也大了一點"},{"start":724.153,"end":751.822,"text":"怎麼會是最後一里路呢橋還沒有蓋好怎麼會有最後一里路橋是你的第一里路啊沒關係啊你要給我橋的話我就繼續幹啊你不給我橋的話我幹不下去啦院長所以明年的預算我看不到了齁起碼你明年開始嘛因為他是分十年來編列金門大橋做了十年啊分十年嘛不管是三百億四百億你一年就是投入三十億到四十億嘛這個馬祖啊"},{"start":753.035,"end":775.805,"text":"你要去看馬祖 你到底要不要馬祖所以前一陣子金門兩棲偵察連調到澎湖去訓練我不曉得他還要不要回去我都覺得是不是台灣不要我們金門馬祖了不會 馬祖金門都是我們重要的離島而且他有戰略地位我最近還想找時間到馬祖去看看你要去看看嗎 要"},{"start":776.943,"end":799.011,"text":"什麼時候去我陪你去好 你在那邊等我就好了委員在馬祖等我就好了你不要自己一個人跑了那院長我是說排序應該要開始啟動了我這幾年因為國內財政還有政治紛擾我都按捺住你看我在立法院有沒有跟你們發過脾氣從來沒有你看那個"},{"start":804.563,"end":826.026,"text":"國道6號東延花蓮的特別條例通過了那你們說 行政院講說你幹什麼訂什麼特別條例啊有公務預算來出就好啦我也同意啊 OK啊但是我們是乖乖排啊你看我都沒吵也沒鬧但是你還是不給我啊是不是 你還是不給我啊交通部都有在進行啊"},{"start":826.823,"end":855.237,"text":"不過你明年要排進去交付都有在進行而且跟設計單位都有在進度上都有在進行但總要克服一些現在我們看到的困難院長我不是說你幫我助選你起碼我任期快到了你明年這個錢排個30億40億幫我預算編進去你能不能承諾我真的民眾對我沒信心我自己對自己都沒信心我進選這件事情信任兩個字"},{"start":856.618,"end":878.524,"text":"怎麼信任我沒辦法信任啦是不是院長你可以答應我嗎一個七年了一定要做的啦交通部來規劃啦也是要看這個設計的單位他怎麼樣來對現在看到的一些狀況他能夠按部就班有序的來進行世襲告訴我沒有問題有問題的是誰咧有問題的是都是你們大人啦你知道嗎"},{"start":882.881,"end":900.013,"text":"不是不是 過去委員說金額還沒有算出來 預算沒有算出來就是他不曉得困難度有多大如果他至少現在360億的預算算出來了 工程預算算出來了表示他知道要克服哪些問題 我們就逐步來推動好吧 360億就360億嘛 你一年就編個36億吧 可以不可以"},{"start":903.557,"end":932.734,"text":"交通部的預算一年七八千億啊我們現在專心的在趕北竿機場就是您剛剛所關心的那未來南竿機場其實也有改善的計畫我們交通部來說的話我們先把機場的部分我們先想辦法趕快把它做好你看桃園的一個高架橋的捷運往地下走幾百億 五百多億啊增加五百多億360億多嗎 也不多啊這是關係到馬祖未來"},{"start":933.533,"end":960.857,"text":"當然中央這幾年馬祖有長途的進步憑良心講而且我當立法委員都是貴長在執政真的是你們執政馬祖老闆不是瞎了眼不是不了解 都了解你們給的是蠻多的但是這些年齡碎碎的工程小的基礎建設你要大方向去走的話一定馬祖大橋要把它完工院長你知道嗎你如果不去做馬祖大橋"},{"start":962.227,"end":990.588,"text":"我請問南竿機場你要不要改善南竿機場是非常危險的那等於是在航空母艦上面降落飛機明天是媽祖升天紀我不敢回去空中非常不穩定起飛跟降落坦特不安你知道嗎 坦特不安沒有那麼安全當然我們不怕一萬只怕萬一所以這個一定要改善你如果去改善南竿機場的話"},{"start":993.195,"end":1016.808,"text":"經費非常龐大 1000億跑不掉了你不能出了狀況以後去改善它所以你兩座機場要變成一座機場這個馬祖大橋勢在必行院長你同意不同意我的看法北竿機場的改建南竿機場的存廢以及馬祖大橋如何克服困難這都是三件同時存在的問題"},{"start":1017.967,"end":1045.257,"text":"那現在左手是北竿機場的改建這個是已經看到而且勢必在做的而且馬祖大橋會牽動到南竿機場的存廢的問題所以剛才我跟你報告說現在北竿機場的改善工程已經啟動了現在排序排下來我認為 我個人認為我想應該你也認為明年應該要給一點錢吧第一期預算先編上去現場你同意不同意我想你跟賴總統報告"},{"start":1046.912,"end":1075.691,"text":"他也會答應的啦我說剛剛請說請交通部能夠跟設計單位來看目前看到的困難已經克服了所以他才會才會算出360億的預算那我們看看這個預算整個的結構看看如果他已經到了一個成熟而且對於北幹機場南幹機場問題地方上的聲音也都相當的一致的那就是到這個順序一步一步的來做下來院長明年你幫我把這個錢排進去"},{"start":1077.321,"end":1094.167,"text":"我明天就繼續選如果不排局的話我也無緣對江東復老只好告老還鄉你樂意看到這樣的結果嗎委員的當選是靠地方復老不是我編預算我的當選是靠"},{"start":1095.865,"end":1124.887,"text":"靠你們基礎建設我們一起努力把馬祖建設的更好我們一起努力這絕對是我跟委員同樣的心情我對馬祖的相信做事情不是憑口水憑口水沒有用了我想現在大家選民都很聰明嘛是不是店長拜託啦 明年不管如何這個馬祖大橋的事情啊拜託一下我請交通部來詳細的規劃不可能嘛好 另外跟你談一個部長你請回 沒事啦才化法"},{"start":1126.864,"end":1156.248,"text":"財化法修正以後我們碰到大問題了全國各縣市全部增加金門110億我們倒扣1000萬預算編不下去現在問題來了所以我跟財政部長討論財政部長說我有修法意圖所以我在上個禮拜已經在議會裡面大概近乎二讀近乎二讀有一個月的協商期"},{"start":1157.24,"end":1184.743,"text":"11月7號可能就進入賢章期滿了這一個財化法通過以後也就是保障離島2.5%2.5%的概念是什麼我們只分到22億金門110億澎湖也是7、8、10億我們分22億雖然這個錢很少我也吞了而且我來提案我錢拿最少的來提案"},{"start":1185.561,"end":1205.596,"text":"為什麼呢 因為明年預算我們現在已經到了瓶頸了變不下去了現在問題又來了這個法通過以後我相信拜託院長能夠把它付諸那財政部這邊也會從善如流能夠順利的分給我22億分給我22億原來是7.23億"},{"start":1208.735,"end":1237.015,"text":"後來你們給我7點 財務法修正以後給我7.13億少了1000萬財政部把它補起來了他說我補給你嘛 7.23億那補平了以後呢多了多少億 多了十幾億現在一般補助款跟計畫型補助款你不給我了這第一點喔第二點 我們本來配合款部分只要10%現在行政院說我們要40%"},{"start":1239.312,"end":1266.895,"text":"你知道我適時去哪裡拿所以你給我的一般補助款你給我的計畫分配我沒有配合款也就是不做了等於就是形同巨文 我做不下去了所以請財政部還有行政院主席處你要注意到離島偏鄉的問題這公平性的問題所以請你要注意"},{"start":1269.264,"end":1297.684,"text":"你現在要給我們40%我們哪裡拿得出來40%的錢啊拿不出來那麼舊的就是連續性計畫的繼續性計畫的工程我們也要停擺因為你以前給我比如說3億我做了一半啦那現在還有2億你現在我自己出我現在我去哪裡拿這個2億啊我拿不出來拿不出來這個房子變成爛尾樓就擺在那個地方這個是個問題"},{"start":1299.372,"end":1323.432,"text":"所以院長請您注意到麻煩的問題好不好財化法的部分 我想我跟委員共同兩個遺憾第一個遺憾就是現在現行財化法水平分配不公平才造成你剛剛說的 即使三個離島都不公平離島跟台灣本島之間是絕對的不公平"},{"start":1323.892,"end":1340.553,"text":"以後有機會我們要改進這一點那第二個遺憾是當初我們在復一的時候也跟你講了計算公式有錯如果當時您支持一下復一就改過來了好那現在我們亡羊補牢委員有提出一個案子我們知道那這個案子修正案它的效率到底如何"},{"start":1341.44,"end":1366.488,"text":"修正過如何馬上可用 或者是他有時間上的落差第二個是朝野各黨團內部現在的意見有沒有趨於一致還是有其他的意見就這個分配不出去的345億如何使用我們還要討論重認這個稍微緩和一點現在潮潮也大嘛 對不對就緩和一點 你不要積累去對抗嘛"},{"start":1367.449,"end":1392.363,"text":"很緩和 我們緩和到拿出4165億了不要去硬撞 火車對撞撞的結果你看看像那個凍結預算我們沒有對撞 被撞而已然後對撞我們哪裡凍結預算 凍結預算有什麼了你起碼讓這一些單位 行政部門去解釋嘛你解釋都還沒解釋 兩個總裁都在那邊吵架當時也跟你講委員當時應該有跟你說計算公式錯誤啊在復議的時候啊"},{"start":1396.65,"end":1423.651,"text":"都沒有被真正的把它當重視那個院長還有一個就是我一直我的想法我當縣長的時候就想做一個海洋牧場你沒有機會去大陸參觀我們彼岸的連江線全世界兩個連江線大陸一個連江線 馬祖一個連江線他們連江線的海域啊一望無際 全部都是海帶"},{"start":1426.424,"end":1450.135,"text":"海帶鮑魚養殖黃魚養了一大堆那我覺得我們馬祖的海域我們的有氧度是8到9喔他們有氧度因為種植的面積太大了他們有氧度只有2到3所以我們的水質是非常好的你看我們養的淡菜我們有淡菜好吃的太多了淡菜院長有沒有吃過"},{"start":1450.851,"end":1480.173,"text":"有我到馬祖之前去淡賽讓我回味無窮我沒有機會啊這個院長我如果送你一盒你可以收嗎沒有超過違反法令的規定我直接到馬祖去我們在當地比較新鮮你去吃的時候已經沒有了因為季節已經過了這個我想我送一些給院長品他看看真的我不是要你吃啊我是說你吃了以後覺得"},{"start":1480.936,"end":1509.686,"text":"我們馬祖生產的東西我們八到九的有氧度的東西是好的農業部一直講說要去幫我們的忙到現在我也沒看到去幫我們忙你幫他輔導你幫他導入正軌讓他企劃的經營讓觀光客到馬祖去有的吃有的住有的玩他起碼吃很重要讓吃的食物能夠豐富台灣沒有吃有馬祖有"},{"start":1510.931,"end":1539.185,"text":"這個是很重要的 是不是你督促農業部在這一方面再加強一下好不好好的 你看我們的造林金門是一排 兩排 三排的造林我們連一排都不可得啊是不是 所以這個落差非常的大你看觀光人數 金門突破了一百萬人了耶已經小山東突破一百萬人了包括淡菜 牡蠣 還有我們還是抓這個小捲還中捲是不是 應該都是有那個你要找楊耀偉去澎湖吃"},{"start":1539.915,"end":1567.628,"text":"那邊有小檢、大檢、中檢都有啊馬祖雲、連綿江也有啊漁船我看大家都在那邊那個燈光就在那邊對 用燈光去補對面好多喔 你到晚上很漂亮很多 看到海上很多整排都是大陸的船所以這個海洋牧場的構想我拜託院長我們一定會善加珍惜 善用我們的海洋資源虧一些經費嘛"},{"start":1569.973,"end":1596.778,"text":"這個臨江跟金門都是我們戰略的地區但是發展當地的觀光或是跟一些過去歷史遺留下來的這個軌跡的觀光我覺得是一個特色再加上海鮮 再加上當地的人文認為都是一個非常獨特的一個地區院長 多重視一下不管如何金門馬祖以前是個打仗的地方我希望不要打仗我一直跟對面講不要打仗不要打仗我一直跟他講不要打仗"},{"start":1599.545,"end":1620.297,"text":"他們要來打啦 我們不會跟他打仗當選主席 你們又在擔心我覺得他能夠跟習大大見面 讓他去見面嘛見面以後也很好啊你總比現在兩邊 你看看我們反中抗中 兩邊不講話文統沒辦法文統的話就是武統了 下來就武力"},{"start":1620.973,"end":1642.111,"text":"我們堅決反對武統你把飛機把船艦撤回去嘛不是馬祖相信 台灣相信不喜歡看到這些這是一個好的建議 好的開始所以他說我們是跟美中在對抗啊又不是針對台灣那我說你一直環繞著台灣海峽這也是個問題啊我常常吧 你問那個邱主委"},{"start":1642.932,"end":1671.836,"text":"我常常都在幫台灣發聲我們請農業部真的把這些海洋資源善用更多的國際觀光客我想對地方的安全也是有幫助的剩下一點時間我要跟你講土地的正義軍人跟國產署佔了馬祖土地我上次講過了佔領了多少百分之七十五我們先平到馬祖來都是領海為居嘛都在海邊啊一個沃口一個沃口一個沃口"},{"start":1672.859,"end":1701.203,"text":"山上的土地都被他們弄光了所以部長你正好在這裡院長你能不能去找個單位去研究一下是法治老百姓募不釋定以前你公告我公告一個月沒來的話這個地址是公家的 政府的都沒去登記你貼在我家門口我也不會去看所以現在又變成國有財政局的 文財署的到現在為止還吵鬧不休"},{"start":1702.128,"end":1729.373,"text":"我從現場開始我跟你講 雞犬不寧每天都是老百姓來要地現在當了立委還跑到立法院來找我也是要地土地的問題是法律的問題是不是你們國產署長我跟他吵國產署我跟他吵了多少次目前部長能夠說明 部長清楚你等一下說明 院長我給你一個概念"},{"start":1731.392,"end":1760.571,"text":"軍方跟國產署佔了我們75個土地我上次講過了您如果是縣長的話你對這個縣你怎麼治理你能夠發展嗎你發展不出去嘛沒有你發展的空間嘛他也不能蓋旅社啊是不是 他不能蓋旅社喔有規定的喔 土地問題有規定的喔他不能蓋旅館啊他沒有發展的空間馬祖部隊多少人"},{"start":1761.961,"end":1775.108,"text":"兩千多人 他要那麼大的土地幹什麼我們居民一萬多人 佔比只有25%你看看國產署佔的多少 75%部長 能不能研究一下"},{"start":1781.208,"end":1809.953,"text":"什麼處理嘛對已經登記為國有的但是民眾要申請返還的其實我們都是從寬再處理除非我們政府機關不是 你設個小組研究一下好不好你研究一下這個問題好不好你在那邊講你講我講 下次我再來總之又沒用了我們會再主案再來去了解每一個案子的情況我想希望院長拜託一下"},{"start":1810.834,"end":1831.439,"text":"你成立一個專案小組你要我弄個修法提案嗎 不用吧我請部長提個建議上來我們來看部裡面的看法配合國防部或是內政部也要一起來討論這個相關部我們來討論看看一個建議上拜託你 也希望你 鄉人為國 好不好好的好 謝謝陳學生委員質詢謝謝卓院長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":669,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（10時46分）院長、主席早安，是不是請卓院長？"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長再次備詢。"],["陳委員雪生：卓院長好久不見。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員雪生：最近救災辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：最近事情多，大家都一樣通力合作，謝謝。"],["陳委員雪生：首先跟您報告，雪生從事公職人員在連江縣政府待了12年、臺北市政府待了13年；我的民意代表生涯從國大代表、縣長、立法委員一共待了26年了，對馬祖基礎建設最了解的，我想我是其中之一，我不敢講是唯一的一個。","今天跟院長討教的是偏鄉離島基礎建設工程，院長你答得出來我們馬祖目前最重要的基礎工程是什麼嗎？最重要的兩項基礎工程。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員或許說的是機場的改建跟改善、一個是大橋的問題。"],["陳委員雪生：一個是機場、一個是大橋，這關係到馬祖未來的百年大計！我想從政者，尤其從事政治，我想你身為首長對各縣市，尤其對偏鄉離島應該更加重視……"],["卓院長榮泰：應該。"],["陳委員雪生：不會說只居住在臺灣本島。","我首先跟你談一下北竿機場第一期改善工程，謝謝中央政府，自從馬祖北竿機場出了兩件大事以後有注意到了，因為這兩座機場是全國最危險的機場，中央也從善如流投資了第一期工程，投資220億。","目前進度大概是縣政府的部分即將要啟動，也就是風山那邊的垃圾場要遷移，這個事情已經由民航局委託連江縣政府在執行，這個我想不是問題；第二個是民航局跑道的整建工程，這也OK、這沒問題；第三個是民航局委託臺灣港務公司進行什麼？進行圍堤工程及開挖造地工程，這個工程時間比較久、經費也比較多。","我也拜託民航局局長、也拜託世曦鄭董事長這一項工程要特別注意，現在已經發包出去了，由世曦工程顧問公司承包，我也拜託他們，為什麼呢？這個機場對馬祖而言是非常重要的一環，但是北竿的居民卻有聲音、有雜音，其實我也在午夜夢迴、左思右想，確實建造的時間需要8年，這8年對當地民眾來說，因為他坐飛機要到南竿去坐，要到離島的話要坐船過去，還有通勤人員，還有當地就業的，像民航局在那邊有單位，還有消防隊等等很多單位，這些單位要怎麼辦是個問題，後續的問題很重要。","前幾天我跟朋友聊天聊到臺中清泉崗、屏東的機場，他們施工的方式是用半半工，什麼是半半工？半半工就是一半施工，另一半也可以飛航，但這個錢可能會比較多一點，為什麼呢？因為它的工地，它做消波塊跟沉箱，但工地不在馬祖當地做，馬祖當地也缺工，臺灣都缺工了，何況離島缺得更嚴重，它可以在臺北港的腹地或是在高雄港的腹地來做沉箱或是做消波塊，然後送到那邊去填海。","所以用半半施工這樣的方式可能可以縮短時間，因為它要8年到10年，這個痛苦期太長了，能不能請院長協助？我已經有跟他們溝通過了，世曦的鄭運鵬董事長也從善如流，會朝這個方向走，因為確實痛苦期的時間太長了。我也告訴當地的民眾，馬祖這個機場的基礎工程一定要完成，這是百年大計，我們沒有遠見、沒有宏觀，但就我目前從政51年的經驗，關於馬祖的未來，我起碼看得非常清楚，我也拜託中央的長官，不管是哪一黨執政，都能夠重視馬祖，請院長回答我。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員對離島馬祖地區長時間的投入、關心，我想馬祖地區的居民跟全國的國人都清楚，我認為就跟現在的非洲豬瘟一樣，國人同胞忍得了一時，就能夠爭取一世，忍得一段的時間，爭取一個世代的安穩。"],["陳委員雪生：8年太長了。"],["卓院長榮泰：也是一樣，我覺得馬祖的國人也是一樣，忍得一段時間的痛苦，我們可以爭取一個世代的進步，忍一時可以爭一世……"],["陳委員雪生：關於機場的跑道鋪面……"],["卓院長榮泰：在工程方面，我當然要相信，也要尊重工程專家、設計單位、監造單位施工上的安全跟需求，工程期間如果能夠縮短，目前交通部跟設計單位合作，如果有新的工法，在不影響安全之下，當然我們可以支持，無論工期多長，在工期當中對馬祖居民在交通上所產生的一些負擔，交通部也已經預先有所因應、有所準備，應該在減輕或是共同負擔的情況底下，讓居民能夠在忍耐的過程當中，不需要再付出更多的財務代價，交通部可以做說明。"],["陳委員雪生：是的，我的建議就是施工用半半工來做，另外後續的一些措施，你們還是要因應，好不好？陳部長也在這邊。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，您所說半半施工，也很感謝您特別跟建造單位、設計單位大家一起來討論這個部分，我們儘量縮短，因為8年確實太長……"],["陳委員雪生：我們尊重專業……"],["陳部長世凱：對，尊重專業，就像院長所指示的，我們要尊重專業，但是如果可以縮短的部分，我們儘量來想辦法，因為它腹地相對於其他的機場來說是比較小，所以半半施工的空間會比較少，但我們儘量縮短，這是確定的目標。","另外您所指示對於後續的因應，就是那邊的居民要搭船到南竿去搭飛機的時候，這個部分我們跟縣政府有在合作，你應該也很清楚，這個部分我們會繼續來努力。"],["陳委員雪生：因為你起碼每天要飛個一班，當地的居民不要再到離島去坐飛機嘛，飛一班的話，當地的離島居民就可以出來，但觀光客就沒辦法降落了，觀光客要到南竿降落以後，還要坐船到北竿去，我想這個衝擊比較小，當然對北竿商家的生意會有影響，這個相對的配套，我想請交通部要妥為因應，好不好？","第二件要跟您談的是馬祖大橋，最近我看到電視一直跑馬燈在報導說交通部陳部長說淡江大橋馬上要合龍了，明年5月份要完工……"],["陳部長世凱：已經……"],["陳委員雪生：我非常高興，我祝福啦！全長十點多公里。金門大橋呢？它在蓋，我是馬祖的民意代表跑到金門去幹什麼？我去看金門大橋，我看它怎麼蓋、蓋好了沒有，它大概是5.41公里，馬祖的橋只要3公里，最近馬祖民眾對我沒有信心，我對自己也沒有什麼信心了耶！你看看馬祖大橋是哪一年核定的？是107年，賴總統那時候時任行政院院長，他批的耶！我跑到行政院去說：報告院長，這個橋一定要做啊！那時候還有一些人有意見，那麼賴院長呢？不管，把它拿來，馬上把案子送到我的手上，他把它批了，第二天賴院長就卸任了，我記得非常的清楚。","時間經過了7年，你看經過了7年，從一百多億、兩百多億，上一次總質詢的時候，院長回答我說要三百多億，我說：院長，你那個是猜的啦！國發會提供的資料什麼360億，它怎麼得出三百多億、四百多億呢？它也沒有去海底鑽探，任何都沒有，它只是聽世曦告訴它的。我前幾天打電話給鄭運鵬董事長，為什麼？我之前要交通部發個函給世曦公司，去問到底要多少錢，要給我精算出來嘛！你們也不管我……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個有回復到您的辦公室了。"],["陳委員雪生：你問了嗎？也沒問嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：有啦！有問了。"],["陳委員雪生：沒問嘛，是不是？所以有時候立委在立法院質詢，我拜託幕僚同仁把它記下來，尤其能夠在總質詢上面提出的問題都是非常重要的。"],["陳部長世凱：不好意思，報告委員，這個部分有回復給您的辦公室了，世曦工程有核算出一個經費是360億。"],["陳委員雪生：有一些東西不要讓我一直追嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是，這個回復了。"],["陳委員雪生：我剛剛講到馬祖大橋，從賴院長核定，可行性評估花了多少錢？花了一億五千多萬，評估的結果是，在工程施工度是沒有問題，我們國內有這樣工程的經驗，經費也不是問題，從前面的蘇貞昌院長，從蔡英文總統到賴總統，經費都不是問題。最近也經過了金門大橋、經過了淡江大橋，我想國內的施工技術已經成熟了，有些人跟我講，如果這條橋的經費核定了，你們不要找大陸去發包啊！現在有法令的限制，我們怎麼可能找大陸來包這個工程呢？大陸做的當然以他們的經驗，我們也看得到的，像公鐵大橋或什麼的，好幾個大橋施工度比馬祖還難的都已經完成了。","我想這是國人的驕傲，我們目前有這個能力來做，在整個排序上，院長，時間已經過了7年，我明年還一年、後年還一年，我說我走最後一哩路，你不能讓我做到99歲吧，對不對？我想年紀也大了一點，現在都在喊世代交替……"],["卓院長榮泰：怎麼會是最後一哩路呢？橋還沒有蓋好，怎麼會有最後一哩路？"],["陳委員雪生：我……"],["卓院長榮泰：橋是你的第一哩路啊！"],["陳委員雪生：沒關係，你要給我橋的話，我就繼續幹啊！你不給我橋的話，我幹不下去啊！院長。明年的預算我看不到了，起碼明年開始嘛！因為它是分10年來編列，金門大橋做了10年，分10年嘛！不管是300億、400億，一年就是投入30億到40億。至於馬祖，你要去看馬祖，你到底要不要馬祖？所以前一陣子金門兩棲偵察營調到澎湖去訓練，我不曉得他們還要不要回去，我都覺得是不是臺灣不要金門、馬祖了？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，馬祖、金門都是我們重要的離島，而且有戰略地位，我最近還想找時間到馬祖去看看。"],["陳委員雪生：你要去看看嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：要。"],["陳委員雪生：什麼時候去？我陪你去。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，你在那邊等我就好了。"],["陳委員雪生：你要找我去，你不要自己一個人跑了。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員在馬祖等我就好了。"],["陳委員雪生：你不要自己一個人跑了。院長，我是說排序應該要開始啟動了，這幾年因為國內財政及政治紛擾，我都按捺住啊！你看我在立法院有沒有跟你們發過脾氣？從來沒有。你看國道6號東延花蓮的特別條例通過了，行政院講你幹什麼定特別條例，由公務預算來出就好啦！我也同意，OK啊！但是我們是乖乖牌，你看，我都沒吵也沒鬧，但是你還是不給我，是不是？你還是不給我啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：交通部都有在進行。"],["陳委員雪生：不過你明年要排進去，要排序。"],["卓院長榮泰：交通部都有在進行，而且跟設計單位在進度上都有在進行，但總要克服一些現在我們看到的困難。"],["陳委員雪生：院長，我不是說要你幫我助選，但起碼我任期快到了，明年你這個錢排個30億、40億，幫我把預算編進去，你能不能承諾我？真的，民眾對我沒信心，我自己對自己都沒信心啊！我競選這件事情，「信任」兩個字，怎麼信任我？沒辦法信任，是不是？院長你可以答應我嗎？7年了，一定要做的啦！早做、晚做，一定要做的！"],["卓院長榮泰：交通部來規劃啦，但也是要看這個設計單位怎麼樣對現在看到的一些狀況，能夠按部就班、有序地來進行。"],["陳委員雪生：世曦告訴我沒有問題，有問題的是誰呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：它金額都算出來了，就應該是有一個標準。"],["陳委員雪生：有問題的都是你們大人，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是、不是，過去委員說金額還沒有算出來，預算沒有算出來，就是它不曉得困難度有多大，但至少它現在360億的工程預算算出來了，表示它知道要克服哪些問題，我們就逐步來推動。"],["陳委員雪生：好吧！360億就360億，你1年就編個36億，可不可以？"],["卓院長榮泰：現在的……"],["陳委員雪生：交通部的預算1年7,000、8,000億啊！"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們現在專心地在趕北竿機場，就是您剛剛所關心的。未來南竿機場其實也有改善的計畫，我們交通部會先想辦法趕快把機場的部分做好。"],["陳委員雪生：你看桃園一個高架橋的捷運往地下走，幾百億？五百多億，追加五百多億。360億多嗎？也不多啊！這是關係到馬祖的未來，當然憑良心講，這幾年馬祖有長足的進步，而且我當立法委員期間都是貴黨在執政，真的是你們執政，馬祖老百姓不是瞎了眼，不是不了解，都了解，你們給的是滿多的，但是這一些零零碎碎的工程、小的基礎建設，你要大方向去走的話，一定要把馬祖大橋完工。院長，你知道嗎？你如果不做馬祖大橋，我請問南竿機場，你要不要改善？南竿機場是非常危險的！那等於是在航空母艦上面降落飛機。明天是媽祖昇天祭，我不敢回去，空中非常不穩定，起飛跟降落忐忑不安，你知道嗎？忐忑不安，沒有那麼安全，當然我們不怕一萬，只怕萬一，所以這個一定要改善。你如果去改善南竿機場的話，經費非常龐大，1,000億跑不掉，你不能出了狀況以後才去改善它，所以兩座機場要變成一座機場，馬祖大橋勢在必行。院長，你同不同意我的看法？"],["卓院長榮泰：北竿機場的改建、南竿機場的存廢，以及馬祖大橋如何克服困難，這是三件同時存在的問題。"],["陳委員雪生：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在著手的是北竿機場的改建，這個是已經看到，勢必要做的，而且馬祖大橋會牽動到南竿機場存廢的問題，這個是……"],["陳委員雪生：所以剛才我跟你報告，北竿機場的改善工程已經啟動了，現在排序排下來，我個人認為，我想你應該也這麼認為，明年應該要給一點錢吧！第一期預算先編上去，院長，你同不同意？我想你跟賴總統報告，他也會答應的。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我剛剛說請交通部跟設計單位能夠去看，目前看到的困難已經克服了，所以它才會算出360億的預算，我們看看這個預算的整個結構，如果它已經到了一個成熟的階段，而且對於北竿機場、南竿機場的問題，地方上的聲音也都相當地一致，那就是照這個順序，一步一步地做下來。"],["陳委員雪生：院長，明年你幫我把這個錢排進去，我明年就繼續選，如果不排進去的話，我也無顏見江東父老，只好告老還鄉，你樂意看到這樣的結果嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員的當選是靠地方父老，不是我編預算。"],["陳委員雪生：沒有、沒有，我的當選是靠你們的基礎建設，基礎建設把它做好……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一起努力，把馬祖建設的更好，我們一起努力，我跟委員絕對是同樣的……"],["陳委員雪生：我對馬祖鄉親做事情不是憑口水啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員雪生：憑口水沒有用了，我想現在選民都很聰明，是不是？院長拜託啦！明年不管如何，馬祖大橋的事情要拜託一下！"],["卓院長榮泰：我請交通部來詳細規劃、準備。"],["陳委員雪生：因為你今年預算已經編了，不可能嘛！","好，另外跟你談一個……部長，你請回，沒事了。財劃法修正以後，我們碰到大問題了，全國各縣市全部增加，金門110億，我們倒扣1,000萬，預算編不下去。現在問題來了，我跟財政部部長討論，財政部部長說：唯有修法一途。所以我上個禮拜已經在院會裡面提逕付二讀，逕付二讀有一個月的協商期，11月7號可能就協商期滿。這一個財劃法通過以後，保障離島2.5%，2.5%的概念是什麼呢？我們只分到22億，金門110億，澎湖也是70、80億，我們分22億，雖然這個錢很少，我也吞了，而且我來提案，我錢拿最少的來提案，為什麼呢？因為明年預算我們已經遇到了瓶頸，編不下去了。現在問題又來了，這個法通過以後，我拜託院長能夠把它付諸實行，財政部這邊也會從善如流，順利的分給我22億。原來是7.23億，後來財劃法修正以後給我7.13億，少了1,000萬，財政部把它補起來了，他說：我補給你嘛！補到7.23億。補平了以後，多了多少億？多了十幾億，現在一般性補助款跟計畫型補助款你不給我了，這第一點。第二點，我們本來配合款只要10%，現在行政院說要40%，你叫我40%去哪裡拿啊？所以你給我的一般性補助款，你給我的計畫分配，我沒有配合款，也就是不做了，等於形同具文，做不下去了嘛！請財政部還有行政院主計處要注意到離島偏鄉的問題，這是公平性的問題，請你們要注意，現在要我們給40%，我們哪裡拿得出來40%的錢啊？拿不出來。","針對舊的，也就是連續性計畫、繼續性計畫的工程也要停擺，因為你以前給我的比如3億，做了一半，現在還有2億，要你縣政府自己出，現在我去哪裡拿這個2億啊？我拿不出來，拿不出來之後，這個房子變成爛尾樓擺在那個地方，這是個問題耶！請院長您注意馬祖的問題，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，委員，這個財劃……"],["陳委員雪生：金門跟澎湖吃的很油啦！是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：關於財劃法，我想我跟委員有共同的兩個遺憾，第一個遺憾就是現行財劃法的水平分配不公平才造成您剛剛所說的，即使三個離島都不公平，何況離島跟臺灣本島之間是絕對的不公平，以後有機會，我們要改進這一點；第二個遺憾是，當初我們在覆議的時候，也跟你講了計算公式有錯，如果當時您支持一下覆議就改過來了，現在我們亡羊補牢，委員有提出一個案子，我知道，但這個修正案的效力到底如何？修正過，馬上可用或者是有時間上的落差？第二個，現在朝野各黨團內部的意見有沒有趨於一致，還是有其他意見？就這個分配不出去的345億如何使用，我們還要討論。"],["陳委員雪生：院長，我跟你拜託一下，從政稍微緩和一點，現在朝小野大，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員雪生：你就緩和一點，你不要激烈去對抗嘛！我想為官之道，你應該很清楚……"],["卓院長榮泰：很緩和，我們緩和到拿出4,165億了。"],["陳委員雪生：不要去硬撞，火車對撞，撞的結果你看看，像那個凍結預算……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有對撞，被撞而已，哪有對撞？"],["陳委員雪生：我們哪裡凍結預算？凍結預算有什麼了？你起碼讓一些單位、行政部門去解釋嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：有啊！"],["陳委員雪生：你解釋都還沒解釋，兩個總召在那邊吵架，吵了老半天，什麼東西都沒了！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，在覆議當時應該有跟你說計算公式錯誤，都沒有被真正地重視。"],["陳委員雪生：好，沒有關係。院長，還有一個我的想法，我當縣長的時候，就想做一個海洋牧場，你沒有機會去大陸參觀，我們彼岸的連江縣，全世界兩個連江縣，大陸一個連江縣、馬祖一個連江縣，他們連江縣的海域一望無際，全部都是做海帶、鮑魚、養殖黃魚，養了一大堆，我覺得馬祖海域的有氧度是8到9，他們因為種植的面積太大了，他們有氧度只有2到3，所以我們的水質是非常好的，你看我們養的淡菜……"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊，我們有淡菜。"],["陳委員雪生：好吃的太多了，淡菜，院長有沒有吃過？"],["卓院長榮泰：有，我之前去馬祖，淡菜讓我回味無窮。"],["陳委員雪生：我沒有機會，院長，我如果送你一盒，你可以收嗎？只有10斤，沒有超過違反法令的規定。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我直接到馬祖去，我們在當地吃比較新鮮。"],["陳委員雪生：你去吃的時候已經沒有了，因為季節已經過了，我想送一些給院長品嘗看看，真的，我不是要你吃，我是說你吃了以後會覺得馬祖生產有氧度8到9的東西是好的。","農業部一直講要去幫我們的忙，到現在我也沒看到有去幫我們忙，你幫它輔導嘛！是不是？你幫它導入正軌，讓它企業化經營，讓觀光客到馬祖有的吃、有的住、有的玩，起碼吃很重要啊，是不是？讓吃的食物能夠豐富，臺灣沒有的，只有馬祖有啊！這是很重要的，你是不是督促農業部在這一方面再加強一下，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，這個……"],["陳委員雪生：你看我們的造林，金門是一排、兩排、三排的造林，我們連一排都不可得啊！所以這個落差非常的大，你看觀光人數金門突破了100萬人，小三通已經突破100萬人。"],["卓院長榮泰：包括淡菜、牡蠣，我們抓小卷還是中卷，應該都是有，是不是？"],["陳委員雪生：那個你要找楊曜委員去澎湖吃，他那邊有小卷、大卷、中卷都有。"],["卓院長榮泰：連江縣也有，我看漁船都在弄個燈光，就在那邊補……"],["陳委員雪生：對，用燈光去補，有！對面好多，你到晚上很漂亮，夜景……"],["卓院長榮泰：海上很多。"],["陳委員雪生：整排都是大陸的船。所以海洋牧場的構想，我拜託院長，是不是督促農業部……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一定會善加珍惜、善用我們的海洋資源。"],["陳委員雪生：撥一些經費嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：雖然連江跟金門都是我們戰略地位，但是發展當地的觀光，或是跟一些過去歷史遺留下來軌跡的觀光，我覺得是一個特色，再加上海鮮、當地的人文，認為都是非常獨特的一個地區。"],["陳委員雪生：院長，多重視一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：會！"],["陳委員雪生：多重視一下，不管如何，金門、馬祖以前是個打仗的地方。"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望不要打仗。"],["陳委員雪生：我一直跟對面講不要打仗。"],["卓院長榮泰：不要打仗。"],["陳委員雪生：我一直跟他講不要打仗。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["陳委員雪生：大家要談啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：他們要來打，我們不會跟他打仗。"],["陳委員雪生：鄭麗文當選主席，你們又在擔心，我覺得他能夠跟習大大見面，讓他去見面嘛，見面以後也很好啊！總比現在兩邊，你看看我們反中、抗中，兩邊不講話，文統沒辦法的話就是武統了，再來就武力耶！我常常跟他們講……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們堅決反對武統。"],["陳委員雪生：你把飛機、船艦撤回去嘛！臺灣鄉親不喜歡看到這些。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是一個好的建議、好的開始。"],["陳委員雪生：這對我們臺海構成威脅嘛，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員雪生：所以他說：我們是跟美中在對抗，又不是針對臺灣。我說：你一直環繞著臺灣海峽，這也是個問題啊！你問邱主委，我常常都在幫臺灣發聲。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們請農業部真的把海洋資源善用，有更多的國際觀光客，我想對地方的安全也是有幫助的。"],["陳委員雪生：好，剩下一點時間，我要跟你講土地的正義，軍人跟國產署占了馬祖土地，我上次講過了，占領了多少，你知道嗎？75%。我們先民到馬祖來都是臨海為居，就在海邊一個沃口、一個沃口、一個沃口，這山上的土地都被他們弄光了，所以部長正好在這裡，院長，你能不能找個單位研究一下？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員雪生：以前馬祖老百姓目不識丁，公告一個月沒來的話，這個地是公家的、政府的，他們都沒去登記，你貼在我家門口，我也不會去看啊！現在地又變成國有財產署的，到現在為止還吵鬧不休，我從當縣長開始，我跟你講，雞犬不寧啊！每天都是老百姓來要地，現在當了立委，還跑到立法院來找我，也是要地。土地的問題是法律的問題，我跟國產署吵了多少次了。"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長說明清楚。"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["陳委員雪生：不是，你等一下說明。院長，我給你一個概念，軍方跟國產署占了我們75%的土地，我上次講過了，你如果是縣長的話，你對這個縣要怎麼治理？你能夠發展嗎？你發展不出去嘛！沒有你發展的空間嘛！它不能蓋旅社，這有規定的，土地問題有規定的喔！它也不能蓋旅館，它沒有發展的空間。馬祖部隊有多少人？兩千多人。它要那麼大的土地幹什麼？我們居民一萬多人占比才25%，你看國產署占了75%。部長能不能研究一下？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我知道委員一直很關心這個問題。"],["陳委員雪生：怎麼處理嘛？"],["莊部長翠雲：對已經登記為國有的，但是民眾要申請返還的，其實我們都是從寬在處理，除非政府機關有證明文件，比如說有徵收……"],["陳委員雪生：你設一個小組研究一下，好不好？你研究一下這個問題，好不好？在這邊你講我講，講那麼多，下次我再來總質詢又沒用了。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我們會逐案再去了解每一個案子的情況。"],["陳委員雪生：院長拜託一下，你成立一個專案小組，你要我弄個修法提案嗎？不用吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：我請部長提一個建議上來，我們來看部裡面的看法，而且配合國防部或是內政部也一起討論，相關部會來討論看看有什麼建議。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，是。"],["陳委員雪生：我拜託你，也希望你相忍為國，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["陳委員雪生：有些事情多忍耐，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳雪生委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及各相關部會首長備詢。","報告院會，現在在議場二樓旁聽的是來自臺灣大學政治系的同學們，我們掌聲歡迎各位，政界的棟梁。","接下來是本日上午質詢最後一位，羅明才委員請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":22,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-6","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-28"],"gazette_id":"1148301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1148301_00001"}}}