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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 74.771, \"end\": 74.891, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 74.891, \"end\": 75.071, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 75.071, \"end\": 75.091, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}]}, {\"start\": 78.253, \"end\": 92.339, \"text\": \"113三個學年度整理完之後呢就變成這個表格只呈現了113我跟你說一下來正式教師的部分呢在國小新北呢光是報名5364人只錄取647人12%國中的部分報名2839人錄取189人6%\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 78.253, \"end\": 79.114, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 79.114, \"end\": 79.314, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 79.314, \"end\": 79.554, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 79.554, \"end\": 80.214, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 80.214, \"end\": 80.414, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 80.414, \"end\": 80.574, 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{\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 91.199, \"end\": 91.319, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 91.319, \"end\": 91.339, \"score\": 0.42}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 91.339, \"end\": 91.379, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 91.379, \"end\": 91.459, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 91.459, \"end\": 91.619, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 91.619, \"end\": 92.199, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"錄\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 92.199, \"end\": 92.319, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 92.319, \"end\": 92.339, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}]}, {\"start\": 101.158, \"end\": 115.733, \"text\": \"高中的部分4356人報名只錄取106這是2%這個是新北市的113學年度國小國中高中的正式教師錄取情況跟報名情況我們來看一下台北\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 101.158, \"end\": 101.338, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 101.338, \"end\": 101.498, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 101.498, \"end\": 101.639, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 101.639, \"end\": 101.839, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 101.839, \"end\": 103.661, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 103.661, \"end\": 104.061, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 104.061, \"end\": 104.301, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 104.301, \"end\": 104.582, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"錄\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 104.582, \"end\": 105.423, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 105.423, \"end\": 106.724, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 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543.545, \"end\": 543.565, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"對\"}]}, {\"start\": 545.285, \"end\": 563.498, \"text\": \"是 所以我覺得委員提了非常重要的一個概念就是我們會去跟教育部還有我們各個地方政府的人事主管你不能只找教育部你要找地方政府的人對 兩個教育部要找還有我們地方政府的人事主管讓他一起來參議\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 545.285, \"end\": 545.886, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 545.886, \"end\": 546.106, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 546.106, \"end\": 546.646, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 546.646, \"end\": 548.207, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 548.207, \"end\": 548.467, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 548.467, \"end\": 549.028, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 549.028, \"end\": 549.208, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 549.208, \"end\": 549.428, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 549.428, \"end\": 549.608, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 549.608, \"end\": 550.469, 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636.335, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 636.335, \"end\": 636.475, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 636.475, \"end\": 637.556, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 637.556, \"end\": 637.816, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 637.816, \"end\": 637.976, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 637.976, \"end\": 638.616, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"孫\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 638.616, \"end\": 638.896, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 638.896, \"end\": 639.436, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"領\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 639.436, \"end\": 639.536, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 639.536, \"end\": 640.596, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 640.596, \"end\": 640.756, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 640.756, \"end\": 641.297, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 641.297, \"end\": 641.857, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 641.857, \"end\": 642.077, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 642.077, \"end\": 642.197, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 642.197, \"end\": 642.377, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 642.377, \"end\": 642.617, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 642.617, \"end\": 642.637, \"score\": 0.041}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 644.301, \"end\": 644.321, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,515 --> 00:00:34,054\n給你按讚好來謝謝吳宗憲委員發揮同袍愛關心主席的眼睛這樣但是我要提醒一下剛剛那個會議那個詢問喔其實不在程序可以問的範圍之內啦而且問到民進黨黨員是要幫中共一起處理嗎這個很奇怪昨天中共才說要通緝沈柏洋這樣好謝謝主席我有請人事長謝謝請蘇人事長\n\n2\n00:00:38,733 --> 00:00:56,020\n委員長好人事長來我們來講一下最近有非常多媒體都刻意錯誤的引導輿論說台灣教師荒很可怕那我不知道人長你這邊的資料怎麼看我們辦公室非常負責任的關心這一題我們來看一下\n\n3\n00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:15,091\n這個相關的數字呢密密麻麻我講給人長聽這個是113學年度各縣市學校正式教師就是他到時候呢入職之後他用的是年金是公立學校教職人員退休輔具條例的時候我們來看一下我們辦公室非常負責任的要了1111121\n\n4\n00:01:18,253 --> 00:01:32,339\n113三個學年度整理完之後呢就變成這個表格只呈現了113我跟你說一下來正式教師的部分呢在國小新北呢光是報名5364人只錄取647人12%國中的部分報名2839人錄取189人6%\n\n5\n00:01:41,158 --> 00:01:55,733\n高中的部分4356人報名只錄取106這是2%這個是新北市的113學年度國小國中高中的正式教師錄取情況跟報名情況我們來看一下台北\n\n6\n00:01:56,654 --> 00:02:00,695\n國小的部分呢就有3603個人報名只錄取了278人7%國中的部分報名3392人只錄取1313.8%高中的部分更可怕113年喔就是去年而已喔報名10398人只錄取156人1.5%\n\n7\n00:02:20,322 --> 00:02:38,919\n所以我要說這個教師荒這件事情很多輿論一直說沒有人要當老師那我就讓人長看光是113年台北跟新北大家覺得生活費高房租高的地方好像沒有人要報名去當老師結果事實不是\n\n8\n00:02:40,140 --> 00:03:00,977\n事實不是這樣所以我想要問一下人長這個數據我不知道你手上有沒有這個數字我要說正式教師其實從來都沒有教師黃所以相關的輿論非常可惡的去誤導這個方向那我們當然要說至於正式老師另外一個叫做什麼代理教師\n\n9\n00:03:03,629 --> 00:03:22,764\n代理教師的困境是這樣喔左邊呢這個奇怪的圖不是我辦公室做的啦是很多學校為了招聘代理教師他們自己老師自己就發揮了創意做這個梗圖說成為老師要像鋼鐵人啊體育老師啊一招二招三招這樣然後呢連相關的新聞都說建中缺老師\n\n10\n00:03:24,325 --> 00:03:49,171\n可以去護國神山誰要當代理教師這個媒體還算負責他標題有寫清楚叫誰要當代理教師確實喔很多學校是缺代理教師的什麼一招啊二招啊七招八招十幾招意思是什麼對照我前一張投影片來看其實如果要說教師荒我認為應該是代理教師荒好仁長你怎麼看\n\n11\n00:03:50,831 --> 00:04:14,468\n因為長期我都在台東地區那台東地區的教師方我跟當地的教育處長還有一些老師談是沒有另外還有一個代理老師的部分坦白講在那個地方你要到學校當老師或代理老師事實上都很困難你必須要很有實力你才能夠\n\n12\n00:04:15,208 --> 00:04:38,744\n去當代理老師我個人的親自體驗是沒有代理老師放在台東那個地區那是幾年前你要講清楚沒有這幾年always是這樣這幾年因為每一年我都在那裡好幾次就是有跟他們當地的運動教練還有當地的教育單位在對話因為他們也教我很多東西\n\n13\n00:04:39,344 --> 00:04:54,498\n好我們來看一下你說你沒有感受到代理教師慌可是確實我必須要說還是有相關數字呈現代理教師慌但是我為什麼要把代理教師跟正式老師放在一起比較其實關鍵是代理教師他現在用的是勞保\n\n14\n00:04:56,052 --> 00:05:23,202\n好而且呢代理教師呢在比較封閉的學校教育體系當中要去兼任行政還要去做很多正式老師不想做的事情都丟包給代理教師喔甚至我們之前也接到非常多陳情很多地方的教育局處他在徵選或者是學校在徵選代理教師的時候他都不直接寫明你要兼任行政然後呢把人家拐騙之後才讓人家兼任行政\n\n15\n00:05:25,484 --> 00:05:38,716\n這是另外一個困境啦所以我要講的是說正式教師他用的是年金而代理教師用的是勞保然後呢正式老師他有工作的保障喔他進去之後如果他沒有備用不適任教師\n\n16\n00:05:41,058 --> 00:06:08,717\n請離開這個教育現場他基本上可以做到好做到滿做到老做到他不想做為止那甚至呢他們還不用兼很多行政而這些事情相關的福利或者是相關的行政重量其實都在代理教師身上所以我要先鄭重澄清我認為現在大量在講教師荒這件事情其實我們要證明叫做代理教師荒確實有出現在某些縣市甚至是某些層級的學校但不代表\n\n17\n00:06:09,497 --> 00:06:30,236\n整體有教師荒因為剛剛正式教師的報名的部分我已經講得很清楚了為什麼要講這個你一定覺得很奇怪因為今天要講年輕改革上個禮拜呢翁曉琳委員她所召開的公聽會裡面就有非常多的老師一直拿著所謂報考人數啊或者是教師荒來談年輕改革必須要跟上他們的腳步\n\n18\n00:06:30,936 --> 00:06:41,781\n必須符合他們的訴求那我就問啦正式教師都沒有教師荒了到底他們這個邏輯是什麼我還是不懂啦但是我想這不是我今天要跟你討論的重點我要講的是下一張\n\n19\n00:06:43,975 --> 00:07:05,553\n現在教師的緣額或教師的困境其實是根據教育部的國民小學跟國民中學班級編制跟教職員緣額編制準則相關的規定不管是1.65人或者是2.2人我想這個都很清楚緣額的部分照理說這個條文本來寫的是學校編制的地板可是實務上運作變成天花板\n\n20\n00:07:06,053 --> 00:07:27,270\n那確實現在也有很多老師說現在的孩子班級人數看起來變少了我們小時候一個班是50個人要坐到垃圾桶後面去這樣可是現在一個班大概只有30個人可是問題是現在30個孩子的家庭啊社區啦孩子們的生命經驗相對於我們小時候複雜多元的很多而且一個老師所能夠處理的狀況呢\n\n21\n00:07:28,371 --> 00:07:55,550\n沒有辦法處理要這麼多孩子的狀況甚至這幾年很多特教生也增加了確實地方老師的負擔是變很大我相信我們都認同所以我們有沒有可能在新版才化法很多錢都跑到地方政府去囉光是花蓮就增加一百六十幾億台北市增加四百多億而這些原本該屬於地方政府應該要負責的教師員兒的部分可不可以實際的去請他們做一些事情你怎麼看\n\n22\n00:07:58,433 --> 00:08:26,950\n我覺得這應該可以納入整個才化法的綜合來考量因為之前我知道教育部也做了很多努力偏鄉的老師有時候也留不住嘛後來他們也有做留庭的一些獎勵的機制所以慢慢偏鄉的老師也留下來那以這一個為當一個指標的話因為他的percentage可能不是很比例不是很重可是我覺得可以納入參考參考值可以納入\n\n23\n00:08:27,130 --> 00:08:39,345\n我要再次忽悠新版財化法之後光是台北市就拿走400多億可是他現在開始還沒有開始認真編預算就天天叫窮天天說都是中央的責任沒關係啦你不用就你們長官沒事這樣沒事我跟你說\n\n24\n00:08:42,168 --> 00:09:03,565\n我要講的新版才化法這件事情我認為地方政府必須要扛起責任尤其在教師員額的部分那我當然希望人長這邊你們可以給他們專業的建議到底我們怎麼協助地方老師而地方政府應該要怎麼負責不要到時候再甩鍋給中央而地方教師的責任相關財政的責任跟義務其實在地方政府對不對\n\n25\n00:09:05,285 --> 00:09:23,498\n是所以我覺得委員提了非常重要的一個概念就是我們會去跟教育部還有我們各個地方政府的人事主管你不能只找教育部你要找地方政府的人對兩個教育部要找還有我們地方政府的人事主管讓他一起來參議\n\n26\n00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:44,576\n因為這是兩方面因為教育端的部分還是以教育部為主體可是在剛才委員所指教的就是以地方的一個財政的一個分工部分也要讓我們人事同仁知道整個財務法如果改編以後它整個的經費來源可能會從地方政府來支付\n\n27\n00:09:44,616 --> 00:10:12,650\n而且要真的協助地方老師國民黨都口口聲聲說要為老師好要為老師好要為小孩好要為小孩我就問這些相關的地方權責在教育的工作上地方政府難道不用負責任嗎我覺得非常的荒謬好我時間有限我尊重主席希望大家尊重時間我直接跳到最後一張其實我今天問這麼多就是要講到關於年金改革的事情尤其是年金制度並不是你的年金或者我的年金\n\n28\n00:10:13,610 --> 00:10:42,637\n而是我們的年金它同時也是我們子孫的年金而且更是不會倒也不能倒的年金在這裡英九要說的也許未來的年金大家領到的比現在的略少可是可以讓大家放心的領三十年讓我們的子孫也能夠領得到大家要對政府有信心\n\n29\n00:10:44,301 --> 00:10:44,321\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7515\t34054\t給你按讚好來謝謝吳宗憲委員發揮同袍愛關心主席的眼睛這樣但是我要提醒一下剛剛那個會議那個詢問喔其實不在程序可以問的範圍之內啦而且問到民進黨黨員是要幫中共一起處理嗎這個很奇怪昨天中共才說要通緝沈柏洋這樣好謝謝主席我有請人事長謝謝請蘇人事長\n38733\t56020\t委員長好 人事長來 我們來講一下最近有非常多媒體都刻意錯誤的引導輿論說台灣教師荒很可怕那我不知道人長你這邊的資料怎麼看我們辦公室非常負責任的關心這一題我們來看一下\n57240\t75091\t這個相關的數字呢密密麻麻我講給人長聽這個是113學年度各縣市學校正式教師就是他到時候呢入職之後他用的是年金是公立學校教職人員退休輔具條例的時候我們來看一下我們辦公室非常負責任的要了111 1121\n78253\t92339\t113三個學年度整理完之後呢就變成這個表格只呈現了113我跟你說一下來正式教師的部分呢在國小新北呢光是報名5364人只錄取647人12%國中的部分報名2839人錄取189人6%\n101158\t115733\t高中的部分4356人報名只錄取106這是2%這個是新北市的113學年度國小國中高中的正式教師錄取情況跟報名情況我們來看一下台北\n116654\t120695\t國小的部分呢 就有3603個人報名 只錄取了278人 7%國中的部分 報名3392人 只錄取131 3.8%高中的部分更可怕 113年喔 就是去年而已喔報名10398人 只錄取156人 1.5%\n140322\t158919\t所以我要說這個教師荒這件事情很多輿論一直說沒有人要當老師那我就讓人長看光是113年台北跟新北大家覺得生活費高房租高的地方好像沒有人要報名去當老師結果事實不是\n160140\t180977\t事實不是這樣 所以我想要問一下人長這個數據我不知道你手上有沒有這個數字我要說正式教師其實從來都沒有教師黃所以相關的輿論非常可惡的去誤導這個方向那我們當然要說 至於正式老師另外一個叫做什麼代理教師\n183629\t202764\t代理教師的困境是這樣喔左邊呢這個奇怪的圖不是我辦公室做的啦是很多學校為了招聘代理教師他們自己老師自己就發揮了創意做這個梗圖說成為老師要像鋼鐵人啊體育老師啊一招二招三招這樣然後呢連相關的新聞都說建中缺老師\n204325\t229171\t可以去護國神山誰要當代理教師這個媒體還算負責他標題有寫清楚叫誰要當代理教師確實喔很多學校是缺代理教師的什麼一招啊二招啊七招八招十幾招意思是什麼對照我前一張投影片來看其實如果要說教師荒我認為應該是代理教師荒好仁長你怎麼看\n230831\t254468\t因為長期我都在台東地區那台東地區的教師方我跟當地的教育處長還有一些老師談是沒有另外還有一個代理老師的部分坦白講在那個地方你要到學校當老師或代理老師事實上都很困難你必須要很有實力你才能夠\n255208\t278744\t去當代理老師我個人的親自體驗是沒有代理老師放在台東那個地區那是幾年前你要講清楚沒有 這幾年always是這樣這幾年因為每一年我都在那裡好幾次就是有跟他們當地的運動教練還有當地的教育單位在對話因為他們也教我很多東西\n279344\t294498\t好 我們來看一下你說你沒有感受到代理教師慌可是確實我必須要說還是有相關數字呈現代理教師慌但是我為什麼要把代理教師跟正式老師放在一起比較其實關鍵是代理教師他現在用的是勞保\n296052\t323202\t好 而且呢 代理教師呢在比較封閉的學校教育體系當中要去兼任行政還要去做很多正式老師不想做的事情都丟包給代理教師喔甚至我們之前也接到非常多陳情很多地方的教育局處他在徵選 或者是學校在徵選代理教師的時候他都不直接寫明你要兼任行政然後呢 把人家拐騙之後才讓人家兼任行政\n325484\t338716\t這是另外一個困境啦所以我要講的是說正式教師他用的是年金而代理教師用的是勞保然後呢正式老師他有工作的保障喔他進去之後如果他沒有備用不適任教師\n341058\t368717\t請離開這個教育現場他基本上可以做到好做到滿做到老做到他不想做為止那甚至呢他們還不用兼很多行政而這些事情相關的福利或者是相關的行政重量其實都在代理教師身上所以我要先鄭重澄清我認為現在大量在講教師荒這件事情其實我們要證明叫做代理教師荒確實有出現在某些縣市甚至是某些層級的學校但不代表\n369497\t390236\t整體有教師荒因為剛剛正式教師的報名的部分我已經講得很清楚了為什麼要講這個你一定覺得很奇怪因為今天要講年輕改革上個禮拜呢翁曉琳委員她所召開的公聽會裡面就有非常多的老師一直拿著所謂報考人數啊或者是教師荒來談年輕改革必須要跟上他們的腳步\n390936\t401781\t必須符合他們的訴求那我就問啦正式教師都沒有教師荒了到底他們這個邏輯是什麼我還是不懂啦但是我想這不是我今天要跟你討論的重點我要講的是下一張\n403975\t425553\t現在教師的緣額或教師的困境其實是根據教育部的國民小學跟國民中學班級編制跟教職員緣額編制準則相關的規定不管是1.65人或者是2.2人我想這個都很清楚緣額的部分照理說這個條文本來寫的是學校編制的地板可是實務上運作變成天花板\n426053\t447270\t那確實現在也有很多老師說現在的孩子班級人數看起來變少了我們小時候一個班是50個人要坐到垃圾桶後面去這樣可是現在一個班大概只有30個人可是問題是現在30個孩子的家庭啊社區啦孩子們的生命經驗相對於我們小時候複雜多元的很多而且一個老師所能夠處理的狀況呢\n448371\t475550\t沒有辦法處理要這麼多孩子的狀況甚至這幾年很多特教生也增加了確實地方老師的負擔是變很大我相信我們都認同所以我們有沒有可能在新版才化法很多錢都跑到地方政府去囉光是花蓮就增加一百六十幾億台北市增加四百多億而這些原本該屬於地方政府應該要負責的教師員兒的部分可不可以實際的去請他們做一些事情你怎麼看\n478433\t506950\t我覺得這應該可以納入整個才化法的綜合來考量因為之前我知道教育部也做了很多努力偏鄉的老師有時候也留不住嘛後來他們也有做留庭的一些獎勵的機制所以慢慢偏鄉的老師也留下來那以這一個為當一個指標的話因為他的percentage可能不是很比例不是很重可是我覺得可以納入參考參考值可以納入\n507130\t519345\t我要再次忽悠新版財化法之後光是台北市就拿走400多億可是他現在開始還沒有開始認真編預算就天天叫窮天天說都是中央的責任沒關係啦你不用就你們長官沒事這樣沒事我跟你說\n522168\t543565\t我要講的新版才化法這件事情我認為地方政府必須要扛起責任尤其在教師員額的部分那我當然希望人長這邊你們可以給他們專業的建議到底我們怎麼協助地方老師而地方政府應該要怎麼負責不要到時候再甩鍋給中央而地方教師的責任相關財政的責任跟義務其實在地方政府對不對\n545285\t563498\t是 所以我覺得委員提了非常重要的一個概念就是我們會去跟教育部還有我們各個地方政府的人事主管你不能只找教育部你要找地方政府的人對 兩個教育部要找還有我們地方政府的人事主管讓他一起來參議\n564679\t584576\t因為這是兩方面因為教育端的部分還是以教育部為主體可是在剛才委員所指教的就是以地方的一個財政的一個分工部分也要讓我們人事同仁知道整個財務法如果改編以後它整個的經費來源可能會從地方政府來支付\n584616\t612650\t而且要真的協助地方老師國民黨都口口聲聲說要為老師好要為老師好要為小孩好要為小孩我就問這些相關的地方權責在教育的工作上地方政府難道不用負責任嗎我覺得非常的荒謬好 我時間有限我尊重主席希望大家尊重時間我直接跳到最後一張其實我今天問這麼多就是要講到關於年金改革的事情尤其是年金制度並不是你的年金或者我的年金\n613610\t642637\t而是我們的年金它同時也是我們子孫的年金而且更是不會倒也不能倒的年金在這裡英九要說的也許未來的年金大家領到的比現在的略少可是可以讓大家放心的領三十年讓我們的子孫也能夠領得到大家要對政府有信心\n644301\t644321\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"給你按讚好來謝謝吳宗憲委員發揮同袍愛關心主席的眼睛這樣但是我要提醒一下剛剛那個會議那個詢問喔其實不在程序可以問的範圍之內啦而且問到民進黨黨員是要幫中共一起處理嗎這個很奇怪昨天中共才說要通緝沈柏洋這樣好謝謝主席我有請人事長謝謝請蘇人事長\n委員長好 人事長來 我們來講一下最近有非常多媒體都刻意錯誤的引導輿論說台灣教師荒很可怕那我不知道人長你這邊的資料怎麼看我們辦公室非常負責任的關心這一題我們來看一下\n這個相關的數字呢密密麻麻我講給人長聽這個是113學年度各縣市學校正式教師就是他到時候呢入職之後他用的是年金是公立學校教職人員退休輔具條例的時候我們來看一下我們辦公室非常負責任的要了111 1121\n113三個學年度整理完之後呢就變成這個表格只呈現了113我跟你說一下來正式教師的部分呢在國小新北呢光是報名5364人只錄取647人12%國中的部分報名2839人錄取189人6%\n高中的部分4356人報名只錄取106這是2%這個是新北市的113學年度國小國中高中的正式教師錄取情況跟報名情況我們來看一下台北\n國小的部分呢 就有3603個人報名 只錄取了278人 7%國中的部分 報名3392人 只錄取131 3.8%高中的部分更可怕 113年喔 就是去年而已喔報名10398人 只錄取156人 1.5%\n所以我要說這個教師荒這件事情很多輿論一直說沒有人要當老師那我就讓人長看光是113年台北跟新北大家覺得生活費高房租高的地方好像沒有人要報名去當老師結果事實不是\n事實不是這樣 所以我想要問一下人長這個數據我不知道你手上有沒有這個數字我要說正式教師其實從來都沒有教師黃所以相關的輿論非常可惡的去誤導這個方向那我們當然要說 至於正式老師另外一個叫做什麼代理教師\n代理教師的困境是這樣喔左邊呢這個奇怪的圖不是我辦公室做的啦是很多學校為了招聘代理教師他們自己老師自己就發揮了創意做這個梗圖說成為老師要像鋼鐵人啊體育老師啊一招二招三招這樣然後呢連相關的新聞都說建中缺老師\n可以去護國神山誰要當代理教師這個媒體還算負責他標題有寫清楚叫誰要當代理教師確實喔很多學校是缺代理教師的什麼一招啊二招啊七招八招十幾招意思是什麼對照我前一張投影片來看其實如果要說教師荒我認為應該是代理教師荒好仁長你怎麼看\n因為長期我都在台東地區那台東地區的教師方我跟當地的教育處長還有一些老師談是沒有另外還有一個代理老師的部分坦白講在那個地方你要到學校當老師或代理老師事實上都很困難你必須要很有實力你才能夠\n去當代理老師我個人的親自體驗是沒有代理老師放在台東那個地區那是幾年前你要講清楚沒有 這幾年always是這樣這幾年因為每一年我都在那裡好幾次就是有跟他們當地的運動教練還有當地的教育單位在對話因為他們也教我很多東西\n好 我們來看一下你說你沒有感受到代理教師慌可是確實我必須要說還是有相關數字呈現代理教師慌但是我為什麼要把代理教師跟正式老師放在一起比較其實關鍵是代理教師他現在用的是勞保\n好 而且呢 代理教師呢在比較封閉的學校教育體系當中要去兼任行政還要去做很多正式老師不想做的事情都丟包給代理教師喔甚至我們之前也接到非常多陳情很多地方的教育局處他在徵選 或者是學校在徵選代理教師的時候他都不直接寫明你要兼任行政然後呢 把人家拐騙之後才讓人家兼任行政\n這是另外一個困境啦所以我要講的是說正式教師他用的是年金而代理教師用的是勞保然後呢正式老師他有工作的保障喔他進去之後如果他沒有備用不適任教師\n請離開這個教育現場他基本上可以做到好做到滿做到老做到他不想做為止那甚至呢他們還不用兼很多行政而這些事情相關的福利或者是相關的行政重量其實都在代理教師身上所以我要先鄭重澄清我認為現在大量在講教師荒這件事情其實我們要證明叫做代理教師荒確實有出現在某些縣市甚至是某些層級的學校但不代表\n整體有教師荒因為剛剛正式教師的報名的部分我已經講得很清楚了為什麼要講這個你一定覺得很奇怪因為今天要講年輕改革上個禮拜呢翁曉琳委員她所召開的公聽會裡面就有非常多的老師一直拿著所謂報考人數啊或者是教師荒來談年輕改革必須要跟上他們的腳步\n必須符合他們的訴求那我就問啦正式教師都沒有教師荒了到底他們這個邏輯是什麼我還是不懂啦但是我想這不是我今天要跟你討論的重點我要講的是下一張\n現在教師的緣額或教師的困境其實是根據教育部的國民小學跟國民中學班級編制跟教職員緣額編制準則相關的規定不管是1.65人或者是2.2人我想這個都很清楚緣額的部分照理說這個條文本來寫的是學校編制的地板可是實務上運作變成天花板\n那確實現在也有很多老師說現在的孩子班級人數看起來變少了我們小時候一個班是50個人要坐到垃圾桶後面去這樣可是現在一個班大概只有30個人可是問題是現在30個孩子的家庭啊社區啦孩子們的生命經驗相對於我們小時候複雜多元的很多而且一個老師所能夠處理的狀況呢\n沒有辦法處理要這麼多孩子的狀況甚至這幾年很多特教生也增加了確實地方老師的負擔是變很大我相信我們都認同所以我們有沒有可能在新版才化法很多錢都跑到地方政府去囉光是花蓮就增加一百六十幾億台北市增加四百多億而這些原本該屬於地方政府應該要負責的教師員兒的部分可不可以實際的去請他們做一些事情你怎麼看\n我覺得這應該可以納入整個才化法的綜合來考量因為之前我知道教育部也做了很多努力偏鄉的老師有時候也留不住嘛後來他們也有做留庭的一些獎勵的機制所以慢慢偏鄉的老師也留下來那以這一個為當一個指標的話因為他的percentage可能不是很比例不是很重可是我覺得可以納入參考參考值可以納入\n我要再次忽悠新版財化法之後光是台北市就拿走400多億可是他現在開始還沒有開始認真編預算就天天叫窮天天說都是中央的責任沒關係啦你不用就你們長官沒事這樣沒事我跟你說\n我要講的新版才化法這件事情我認為地方政府必須要扛起責任尤其在教師員額的部分那我當然希望人長這邊你們可以給他們專業的建議到底我們怎麼協助地方老師而地方政府應該要怎麼負責不要到時候再甩鍋給中央而地方教師的責任相關財政的責任跟義務其實在地方政府對不對\n是 所以我覺得委員提了非常重要的一個概念就是我們會去跟教育部還有我們各個地方政府的人事主管你不能只找教育部你要找地方政府的人對 兩個教育部要找還有我們地方政府的人事主管讓他一起來參議\n因為這是兩方面因為教育端的部分還是以教育部為主體可是在剛才委員所指教的就是以地方的一個財政的一個分工部分也要讓我們人事同仁知道整個財務法如果改編以後它整個的經費來源可能會從地方政府來支付\n而且要真的協助地方老師國民黨都口口聲聲說要為老師好要為老師好要為小孩好要為小孩我就問這些相關的地方權責在教育的工作上地方政府難道不用負責任嗎我覺得非常的荒謬好 我時間有限我尊重主席希望大家尊重時間我直接跳到最後一張其實我今天問這麼多就是要講到關於年金改革的事情尤其是年金制度並不是你的年金或者我的年金\n而是我們的年金它同時也是我們子孫的年金而且更是不會倒也不能倒的年金在這裡英九要說的也許未來的年金大家領到的比現在的略少可是可以讓大家放心的領三十年讓我們的子孫也能夠領得到大家要對政府有信心\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.515 --> 00:34.054\n給你按讚好來謝謝吳宗憲委員發揮同袍愛關心主席的眼睛這樣但是我要提醒一下剛剛那個會議那個詢問喔其實不在程序可以問的範圍之內啦而且問到民進黨黨員是要幫中共一起處理嗎這個很奇怪昨天中共才說要通緝沈柏洋這樣好謝謝主席我有請人事長謝謝請蘇人事長\n\n00:38.733 --> 00:56.020\n委員長好人事長來我們來講一下最近有非常多媒體都刻意錯誤的引導輿論說台灣教師荒很可怕那我不知道人長你這邊的資料怎麼看我們辦公室非常負責任的關心這一題我們來看一下\n\n00:57.240 --> 01:15.091\n這個相關的數字呢密密麻麻我講給人長聽這個是113學年度各縣市學校正式教師就是他到時候呢入職之後他用的是年金是公立學校教職人員退休輔具條例的時候我們來看一下我們辦公室非常負責任的要了1111121\n\n01:18.253 --> 01:32.339\n113三個學年度整理完之後呢就變成這個表格只呈現了113我跟你說一下來正式教師的部分呢在國小新北呢光是報名5364人只錄取647人12%國中的部分報名2839人錄取189人6%\n\n01:41.158 --> 01:55.733\n高中的部分4356人報名只錄取106這是2%這個是新北市的113學年度國小國中高中的正式教師錄取情況跟報名情況我們來看一下台北\n\n01:56.654 --> 02:00.695\n國小的部分呢就有3603個人報名只錄取了278人7%國中的部分報名3392人只錄取1313.8%高中的部分更可怕113年喔就是去年而已喔報名10398人只錄取156人1.5%\n\n02:20.322 --> 02:38.919\n所以我要說這個教師荒這件事情很多輿論一直說沒有人要當老師那我就讓人長看光是113年台北跟新北大家覺得生活費高房租高的地方好像沒有人要報名去當老師結果事實不是\n\n02:40.140 --> 03:00.977\n事實不是這樣所以我想要問一下人長這個數據我不知道你手上有沒有這個數字我要說正式教師其實從來都沒有教師黃所以相關的輿論非常可惡的去誤導這個方向那我們當然要說至於正式老師另外一個叫做什麼代理教師\n\n03:03.629 --> 03:22.764\n代理教師的困境是這樣喔左邊呢這個奇怪的圖不是我辦公室做的啦是很多學校為了招聘代理教師他們自己老師自己就發揮了創意做這個梗圖說成為老師要像鋼鐵人啊體育老師啊一招二招三招這樣然後呢連相關的新聞都說建中缺老師\n\n03:24.325 --> 03:49.171\n可以去護國神山誰要當代理教師這個媒體還算負責他標題有寫清楚叫誰要當代理教師確實喔很多學校是缺代理教師的什麼一招啊二招啊七招八招十幾招意思是什麼對照我前一張投影片來看其實如果要說教師荒我認為應該是代理教師荒好仁長你怎麼看\n\n03:50.831 --> 04:14.468\n因為長期我都在台東地區那台東地區的教師方我跟當地的教育處長還有一些老師談是沒有另外還有一個代理老師的部分坦白講在那個地方你要到學校當老師或代理老師事實上都很困難你必須要很有實力你才能夠\n\n04:15.208 --> 04:38.744\n去當代理老師我個人的親自體驗是沒有代理老師放在台東那個地區那是幾年前你要講清楚沒有這幾年always是這樣這幾年因為每一年我都在那裡好幾次就是有跟他們當地的運動教練還有當地的教育單位在對話因為他們也教我很多東西\n\n04:39.344 --> 04:54.498\n好我們來看一下你說你沒有感受到代理教師慌可是確實我必須要說還是有相關數字呈現代理教師慌但是我為什麼要把代理教師跟正式老師放在一起比較其實關鍵是代理教師他現在用的是勞保\n\n04:56.052 --> 05:23.202\n好而且呢代理教師呢在比較封閉的學校教育體系當中要去兼任行政還要去做很多正式老師不想做的事情都丟包給代理教師喔甚至我們之前也接到非常多陳情很多地方的教育局處他在徵選或者是學校在徵選代理教師的時候他都不直接寫明你要兼任行政然後呢把人家拐騙之後才讓人家兼任行政\n\n05:25.484 --> 05:38.716\n這是另外一個困境啦所以我要講的是說正式教師他用的是年金而代理教師用的是勞保然後呢正式老師他有工作的保障喔他進去之後如果他沒有備用不適任教師\n\n05:41.058 --> 06:08.717\n請離開這個教育現場他基本上可以做到好做到滿做到老做到他不想做為止那甚至呢他們還不用兼很多行政而這些事情相關的福利或者是相關的行政重量其實都在代理教師身上所以我要先鄭重澄清我認為現在大量在講教師荒這件事情其實我們要證明叫做代理教師荒確實有出現在某些縣市甚至是某些層級的學校但不代表\n\n06:09.497 --> 06:30.236\n整體有教師荒因為剛剛正式教師的報名的部分我已經講得很清楚了為什麼要講這個你一定覺得很奇怪因為今天要講年輕改革上個禮拜呢翁曉琳委員她所召開的公聽會裡面就有非常多的老師一直拿著所謂報考人數啊或者是教師荒來談年輕改革必須要跟上他們的腳步\n\n06:30.936 --> 06:41.781\n必須符合他們的訴求那我就問啦正式教師都沒有教師荒了到底他們這個邏輯是什麼我還是不懂啦但是我想這不是我今天要跟你討論的重點我要講的是下一張\n\n06:43.975 --> 07:05.553\n現在教師的緣額或教師的困境其實是根據教育部的國民小學跟國民中學班級編制跟教職員緣額編制準則相關的規定不管是1.65人或者是2.2人我想這個都很清楚緣額的部分照理說這個條文本來寫的是學校編制的地板可是實務上運作變成天花板\n\n07:06.053 --> 07:27.270\n那確實現在也有很多老師說現在的孩子班級人數看起來變少了我們小時候一個班是50個人要坐到垃圾桶後面去這樣可是現在一個班大概只有30個人可是問題是現在30個孩子的家庭啊社區啦孩子們的生命經驗相對於我們小時候複雜多元的很多而且一個老師所能夠處理的狀況呢\n\n07:28.371 --> 07:55.550\n沒有辦法處理要這麼多孩子的狀況甚至這幾年很多特教生也增加了確實地方老師的負擔是變很大我相信我們都認同所以我們有沒有可能在新版才化法很多錢都跑到地方政府去囉光是花蓮就增加一百六十幾億台北市增加四百多億而這些原本該屬於地方政府應該要負責的教師員兒的部分可不可以實際的去請他們做一些事情你怎麼看\n\n07:58.433 --> 08:26.950\n我覺得這應該可以納入整個才化法的綜合來考量因為之前我知道教育部也做了很多努力偏鄉的老師有時候也留不住嘛後來他們也有做留庭的一些獎勵的機制所以慢慢偏鄉的老師也留下來那以這一個為當一個指標的話因為他的percentage可能不是很比例不是很重可是我覺得可以納入參考參考值可以納入\n\n08:27.130 --> 08:39.345\n我要再次忽悠新版財化法之後光是台北市就拿走400多億可是他現在開始還沒有開始認真編預算就天天叫窮天天說都是中央的責任沒關係啦你不用就你們長官沒事這樣沒事我跟你說\n\n08:42.168 --> 09:03.565\n我要講的新版才化法這件事情我認為地方政府必須要扛起責任尤其在教師員額的部分那我當然希望人長這邊你們可以給他們專業的建議到底我們怎麼協助地方老師而地方政府應該要怎麼負責不要到時候再甩鍋給中央而地方教師的責任相關財政的責任跟義務其實在地方政府對不對\n\n09:05.285 --> 09:23.498\n是所以我覺得委員提了非常重要的一個概念就是我們會去跟教育部還有我們各個地方政府的人事主管你不能只找教育部你要找地方政府的人對兩個教育部要找還有我們地方政府的人事主管讓他一起來參議\n\n09:24.679 --> 09:44.576\n因為這是兩方面因為教育端的部分還是以教育部為主體可是在剛才委員所指教的就是以地方的一個財政的一個分工部分也要讓我們人事同仁知道整個財務法如果改編以後它整個的經費來源可能會從地方政府來支付\n\n09:44.616 --> 10:12.650\n而且要真的協助地方老師國民黨都口口聲聲說要為老師好要為老師好要為小孩好要為小孩我就問這些相關的地方權責在教育的工作上地方政府難道不用負責任嗎我覺得非常的荒謬好我時間有限我尊重主席希望大家尊重時間我直接跳到最後一張其實我今天問這麼多就是要講到關於年金改革的事情尤其是年金制度並不是你的年金或者我的年金\n\n10:13.610 --> 10:42.637\n而是我們的年金它同時也是我們子孫的年金而且更是不會倒也不能倒的年金在這裡英九要說的也許未來的年金大家領到的比現在的略少可是可以讓大家放心的領三十年讓我們的子孫也能夠領得到大家要對政府有信心\n\n10:44.301 --> 10:44.321\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.515,"end":34.054,"text":"給你按讚好來謝謝吳宗憲委員發揮同袍愛關心主席的眼睛這樣但是我要提醒一下剛剛那個會議那個詢問喔其實不在程序可以問的範圍之內啦而且問到民進黨黨員是要幫中共一起處理嗎這個很奇怪昨天中共才說要通緝沈柏洋這樣好謝謝主席我有請人事長謝謝請蘇人事長"},{"start":38.733,"end":56.02,"text":"委員長好 人事長來 我們來講一下最近有非常多媒體都刻意錯誤的引導輿論說台灣教師荒很可怕那我不知道人長你這邊的資料怎麼看我們辦公室非常負責任的關心這一題我們來看一下"},{"start":57.24,"end":75.091,"text":"這個相關的數字呢密密麻麻我講給人長聽這個是113學年度各縣市學校正式教師就是他到時候呢入職之後他用的是年金是公立學校教職人員退休輔具條例的時候我們來看一下我們辦公室非常負責任的要了111 1121"},{"start":78.253,"end":92.339,"text":"113三個學年度整理完之後呢就變成這個表格只呈現了113我跟你說一下來正式教師的部分呢在國小新北呢光是報名5364人只錄取647人12%國中的部分報名2839人錄取189人6%"},{"start":101.158,"end":115.733,"text":"高中的部分4356人報名只錄取106這是2%這個是新北市的113學年度國小國中高中的正式教師錄取情況跟報名情況我們來看一下台北"},{"start":116.654,"end":120.695,"text":"國小的部分呢 就有3603個人報名 只錄取了278人 7%國中的部分 報名3392人 只錄取131 3.8%高中的部分更可怕 113年喔 就是去年而已喔報名10398人 只錄取156人 1.5%"},{"start":140.322,"end":158.919,"text":"所以我要說這個教師荒這件事情很多輿論一直說沒有人要當老師那我就讓人長看光是113年台北跟新北大家覺得生活費高房租高的地方好像沒有人要報名去當老師結果事實不是"},{"start":160.14,"end":180.977,"text":"事實不是這樣 所以我想要問一下人長這個數據我不知道你手上有沒有這個數字我要說正式教師其實從來都沒有教師黃所以相關的輿論非常可惡的去誤導這個方向那我們當然要說 至於正式老師另外一個叫做什麼代理教師"},{"start":183.629,"end":202.764,"text":"代理教師的困境是這樣喔左邊呢這個奇怪的圖不是我辦公室做的啦是很多學校為了招聘代理教師他們自己老師自己就發揮了創意做這個梗圖說成為老師要像鋼鐵人啊體育老師啊一招二招三招這樣然後呢連相關的新聞都說建中缺老師"},{"start":204.325,"end":229.171,"text":"可以去護國神山誰要當代理教師這個媒體還算負責他標題有寫清楚叫誰要當代理教師確實喔很多學校是缺代理教師的什麼一招啊二招啊七招八招十幾招意思是什麼對照我前一張投影片來看其實如果要說教師荒我認為應該是代理教師荒好仁長你怎麼看"},{"start":230.831,"end":254.468,"text":"因為長期我都在台東地區那台東地區的教師方我跟當地的教育處長還有一些老師談是沒有另外還有一個代理老師的部分坦白講在那個地方你要到學校當老師或代理老師事實上都很困難你必須要很有實力你才能夠"},{"start":255.208,"end":278.744,"text":"去當代理老師我個人的親自體驗是沒有代理老師放在台東那個地區那是幾年前你要講清楚沒有 這幾年always是這樣這幾年因為每一年我都在那裡好幾次就是有跟他們當地的運動教練還有當地的教育單位在對話因為他們也教我很多東西"},{"start":279.344,"end":294.498,"text":"好 我們來看一下你說你沒有感受到代理教師慌可是確實我必須要說還是有相關數字呈現代理教師慌但是我為什麼要把代理教師跟正式老師放在一起比較其實關鍵是代理教師他現在用的是勞保"},{"start":296.052,"end":323.202,"text":"好 而且呢 代理教師呢在比較封閉的學校教育體系當中要去兼任行政還要去做很多正式老師不想做的事情都丟包給代理教師喔甚至我們之前也接到非常多陳情很多地方的教育局處他在徵選 或者是學校在徵選代理教師的時候他都不直接寫明你要兼任行政然後呢 把人家拐騙之後才讓人家兼任行政"},{"start":325.484,"end":338.716,"text":"這是另外一個困境啦所以我要講的是說正式教師他用的是年金而代理教師用的是勞保然後呢正式老師他有工作的保障喔他進去之後如果他沒有備用不適任教師"},{"start":341.058,"end":368.717,"text":"請離開這個教育現場他基本上可以做到好做到滿做到老做到他不想做為止那甚至呢他們還不用兼很多行政而這些事情相關的福利或者是相關的行政重量其實都在代理教師身上所以我要先鄭重澄清我認為現在大量在講教師荒這件事情其實我們要證明叫做代理教師荒確實有出現在某些縣市甚至是某些層級的學校但不代表"},{"start":369.497,"end":390.236,"text":"整體有教師荒因為剛剛正式教師的報名的部分我已經講得很清楚了為什麼要講這個你一定覺得很奇怪因為今天要講年輕改革上個禮拜呢翁曉琳委員她所召開的公聽會裡面就有非常多的老師一直拿著所謂報考人數啊或者是教師荒來談年輕改革必須要跟上他們的腳步"},{"start":390.936,"end":401.781,"text":"必須符合他們的訴求那我就問啦正式教師都沒有教師荒了到底他們這個邏輯是什麼我還是不懂啦但是我想這不是我今天要跟你討論的重點我要講的是下一張"},{"start":403.975,"end":425.553,"text":"現在教師的緣額或教師的困境其實是根據教育部的國民小學跟國民中學班級編制跟教職員緣額編制準則相關的規定不管是1.65人或者是2.2人我想這個都很清楚緣額的部分照理說這個條文本來寫的是學校編制的地板可是實務上運作變成天花板"},{"start":426.053,"end":447.27,"text":"那確實現在也有很多老師說現在的孩子班級人數看起來變少了我們小時候一個班是50個人要坐到垃圾桶後面去這樣可是現在一個班大概只有30個人可是問題是現在30個孩子的家庭啊社區啦孩子們的生命經驗相對於我們小時候複雜多元的很多而且一個老師所能夠處理的狀況呢"},{"start":448.371,"end":475.55,"text":"沒有辦法處理要這麼多孩子的狀況甚至這幾年很多特教生也增加了確實地方老師的負擔是變很大我相信我們都認同所以我們有沒有可能在新版才化法很多錢都跑到地方政府去囉光是花蓮就增加一百六十幾億台北市增加四百多億而這些原本該屬於地方政府應該要負責的教師員兒的部分可不可以實際的去請他們做一些事情你怎麼看"},{"start":478.433,"end":506.95,"text":"我覺得這應該可以納入整個才化法的綜合來考量因為之前我知道教育部也做了很多努力偏鄉的老師有時候也留不住嘛後來他們也有做留庭的一些獎勵的機制所以慢慢偏鄉的老師也留下來那以這一個為當一個指標的話因為他的percentage可能不是很比例不是很重可是我覺得可以納入參考參考值可以納入"},{"start":507.13,"end":519.345,"text":"我要再次忽悠新版財化法之後光是台北市就拿走400多億可是他現在開始還沒有開始認真編預算就天天叫窮天天說都是中央的責任沒關係啦你不用就你們長官沒事這樣沒事我跟你說"},{"start":522.168,"end":543.565,"text":"我要講的新版才化法這件事情我認為地方政府必須要扛起責任尤其在教師員額的部分那我當然希望人長這邊你們可以給他們專業的建議到底我們怎麼協助地方老師而地方政府應該要怎麼負責不要到時候再甩鍋給中央而地方教師的責任相關財政的責任跟義務其實在地方政府對不對"},{"start":545.285,"end":563.498,"text":"是 所以我覺得委員提了非常重要的一個概念就是我們會去跟教育部還有我們各個地方政府的人事主管你不能只找教育部你要找地方政府的人對 兩個教育部要找還有我們地方政府的人事主管讓他一起來參議"},{"start":564.679,"end":584.576,"text":"因為這是兩方面因為教育端的部分還是以教育部為主體可是在剛才委員所指教的就是以地方的一個財政的一個分工部分也要讓我們人事同仁知道整個財務法如果改編以後它整個的經費來源可能會從地方政府來支付"},{"start":584.616,"end":612.65,"text":"而且要真的協助地方老師國民黨都口口聲聲說要為老師好要為老師好要為小孩好要為小孩我就問這些相關的地方權責在教育的工作上地方政府難道不用負責任嗎我覺得非常的荒謬好 我時間有限我尊重主席希望大家尊重時間我直接跳到最後一張其實我今天問這麼多就是要講到關於年金改革的事情尤其是年金制度並不是你的年金或者我的年金"},{"start":613.61,"end":642.637,"text":"而是我們的年金它同時也是我們子孫的年金而且更是不會倒也不能倒的年金在這裡英九要說的也許未來的年金大家領到的比現在的略少可是可以讓大家放心的領三十年讓我們的子孫也能夠領得到大家要對政府有信心"},{"start":644.301,"end":644.321,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":163,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（9時21分）謝謝吳宗憲委員發揮同袍愛，關心主席的眼睛。我要提醒一下，關於剛剛的那個會議詢問，其實不在程序發言可以問的範圍之內，而且還問到民進黨黨員，是要幫中共一起處理嗎？這個很奇怪，昨天中共才說要通緝沈伯洋。","謝謝主席，我有請人事長，謝謝。"],["主席：請蘇人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早安。"],["陳委員培瑜：人事長，我們來講一下，最近有非常多媒體都刻意錯誤地引導輿論，說臺灣教師荒很可怕，不知道人事長這邊的資料怎麼看？我們辦公室非常負責任地關心這一題。","我們來看一下，這個相關的數字密密麻麻，我講給人事長聽。這個是「113學年度各縣市學校正式教師招收情形」，就是入職之後用的年金是「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例」的人。我們辦公室非常負責任地要了111年、112年、113年3個學年度的，整理完之後就變成這個表格，只呈現113年的。我跟你說一下，正式教師的部分，在國小方面，新北光是報名就有5,364人，只錄取647人，百分比是12%；國中的部分，報名的有2,839人，錄取189人、6%；高中的部分，有4,356人報名，只錄取106人，就是2%，這個是新北市113學年度國小、國中、高中正式教師的錄取情況跟報名情況。","我們來看一下臺北，國小的部分就有3,603個人報名，只錄取了278人，7%；國中的部分，報名的有3,392人，只錄取131人，3.8%；高中的部分更可怕，113（去）年報名了1萬398人，只錄取156人、1.5%。所以我要問的是，這個教育荒這件事情，很多輿論一直說「沒有人要當老師」，那我就讓人事長看，光是113年的臺北跟新北，大家覺得生活費高、房租高的地方好像沒有人要報名去當老師，結果事實卻不是這樣。所以我想問一下人事長，不知道你手上有沒有這個數據？我要說的是，正式教師其實從來都沒有教師荒，所以相關的輿論非常可惡地往這個方向誤導。","我們當然要說之於正式老師，另外一個叫做什麼？代理教師。代理教師的困境是這樣的，左邊這個奇怪的圖不是我辦公室做的，而是很多學校為了招聘代理教師，老師他們自己就發揮了創意做了這個梗圖，說是成為老師要像鋼鐵人，體育老師要一招、二招、三招這樣，連相關的新聞都說，建中缺老師，「可以去護國神山，誰要當代理教師？」這個媒體還算負責，它的標題有寫清楚，叫「誰要當代理教師」？確實，很多學校是缺代理教師的，什麼一招、二招……七招、八招到十幾招，意思是什麼？對照我前一張投影片來看，如果要說教師荒，我認為應該是代理教師荒，人事長怎麼看？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：因為長期我都在臺東地區，針對臺東地區的教師荒，我跟當地的教育處長，還有一些老師談是沒有；另外還有一個代理老師的部分，坦白講，在那個地方，你要到學校當老師或代理老師，事實上都很困難。你必須很有實力才能夠去當代理老師，我個人親自體驗是沒有代理老師荒，在臺東那個地區……"],["陳委員培瑜：那個是幾年前？你要講清楚。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：沒有，這幾年always是這樣啊！因為每一年我都去那裡好幾次，有跟當地的運動教練，還有當地的教育單位在對話，因為他們也教我很多東西。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我們來看一下，你說你沒有感受到代理教師荒，可是確實，我必須要說，還是有相關數字呈現代理教師荒，但我為什麼要把代理教師跟正式老師放在一起比較？其實關鍵是，代理教師現在用的是勞保，而且代理教師在比較封閉的學校、教育體系當中要去兼任行政，還要去做很多正式老師不想做的事情，這些都丟包給代理教師。甚至我們之前也接到非常多陳情，很多地方的教育局處在甄選或學校在甄選代理教師的時候都不直接寫明要兼任行政職，然後把人家拐騙來之後才要人家兼任行政……你怎麼笑得這麼開心？這是另外一個困境。","我要講的是，正式教師用的是「年金」而代理教師用的是「勞保」；正式老師有工作的保障，他進去之後如果沒被以不適任教師請離教育現場，他基本上可以做到好、做到滿、做到老、做到他不想做為止，甚至他們還不用兼很多行政，而這些事情、相關的福利或者是相關的行政重量其實都在代理教師身上。所以我要先鄭重澄清，我認為現在大量在講教師荒這件事情，其實我們要正名，叫做「代理教師荒」。這確實有出現在某些縣市，甚至是某些層級的學校，但不代表整體有教師荒，因為剛剛有關正式教師報名的部分我已經講得很清楚了。","為什麼我要講這個？你一定覺得很奇怪，因為今天要講年金改革。上個禮拜翁曉玲委員所召開的公聽會裡面，就有非常多老師一直拿著所謂的「報考人數」或者是「教師荒」來談年金改革必須跟上他們的腳步、必須符合他們的訴求。那我就問，正式教師都沒有教師荒了，他們的這個邏輯到底是什麼？我還是不懂啦！但是我想這不是我今天要跟你討論的重點。","我要講的是，現在教師的員額或教師的困境其實是根據教育部的「國民小學與國民中學班級編制及教職員員額編制準則」相關的規定而來，不管是1.65人，或是2.2人，我想這個都很清楚，這是員額的部分，照理說這個條文本來寫的是學校編制的地板，可以實務的運作上卻變成天花板。確實現在也有很多老師說，現在的孩子班級人數看起來變少了，我們小時候一個班是50個人，要坐到垃圾桶後面去，可是現在一個班大概只有30個人。","問題是現在30個孩子的家庭、社區、孩子們的生命經驗相對於我們小時候複雜多元了很多，而且一個老師所能處理的狀況……沒有辦法處理到這麼多孩子的狀況。甚至這幾年有很多特教生也增加了，確實地方老師的負擔變得很大，相信我們都認同。所以，我們有沒有可能在新版財劃法，很多錢都跑到地方政府去了，光是花蓮就增加一百六十幾億，臺北市增加四百多億，而這些原本屬於地方政府應該要負責有關教師員額的部分，可不可以實際地去請他們做一些事情？你怎麼看？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我覺得這應該可以納入整個財劃法來綜合考量，因為之前我知道教育部也做了很多努力，偏鄉的老師有時候也留不住，後來他們也做了留任的獎勵機制，所以慢慢地偏鄉的老師也留下來了。如果以這個作為一個指標的話，因為它的percentage（比例）不是很重，可是我覺得可以納入參考值。"],["陳委員培瑜：我要再次呼籲，新版財劃法通過之後，光是臺北市就拿走四百多億，可是它現在還沒開始認真編預算就天天叫窮、天天說都是中央的責任。沒關係，你不用救你們長官，沒事的。","我跟你講，我要講的是，有關新版財劃法這件事情，我認為地方政府必須扛起責任，尤其是在教師員額的部分。我當然希望人事長這邊可以給他們專業的建議，到底要怎麼協助地方老師，而地方政府應該要怎麼負責，不要到時候又甩鍋給中央。至於地方教師的責任與相關財政的責任跟義務其實是在地方政府，對不對？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是，我覺得委員提了一個非常重要的概念，所以我們會去跟教育部，還有各個地方政府的人事主管……"],["陳委員培瑜：你不能只找教育部，你要找地方政府的人啊！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對，兩個，教育部要找，還有地方政府的人事主管，讓他們一起來參與，因為這是兩方面，教育端的部分還是以教育部為主體，可是在剛才委員所指教的，就是以地方的財政分工部分，也要讓我們的人事同仁知道，整個財劃法如果改編以後，它整個經費來源可能會從地方政府來支應。"],["陳委員培瑜：而且要真的協助地方的老師。國民黨都口口聲聲說：要為老師好、要為老師好、要為小孩好、要為小孩好。我就問，這些相關的地方權責，在教育的工作上，地方政府難道不用負責任嗎？我覺得非常的荒謬！","我時間有限，我尊重主席，希望大家尊重時間，我直接跳到最後一張。其實我今天問這麼多就是要講到關於年金改革的事情，尤其是請看影片。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員培瑜：我甚少同意馬英九總統說過的話，但是這一段我是同意的，跟大家分享，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員。接下來請黃國昌委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-5","speakers":["莊瑞雄","吳宗憲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","林倩綺","王義川","羅智強","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈發惠","傅崐萁"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00006"}}}