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00:00:54,219\n深得這個祝福之外呢其實對他是有很大的這個期待那今年四月份其實高市回到日本之後呢他有提到他就公開的建議就是說日本跟台灣應該要建立準安全聯盟\n\n4\n00:00:54,759 --> 00:01:22,567\n他在當眾議員的時候他其實就已經提出了這樣子的構想那甚至在當選這個自民黨的黨魁之後呢他再次重申了這個安倍的這個名言就是台灣有事就是日本有事我想這句話其實意義非常的深絕對不是說你是我的兄弟那種感覺其實高市也好安倍也好他很清楚就是說在地緣政治來講或者是在這個區域安全來講的話確確實實就是台灣有事日本一定會有事\n\n5\n00:01:23,127 --> 00:01:37,615\n所以為什麼這次這個高士當選為這個首相之後呢他主張將國防軍費呢這個佔GDP百分之二的這個目標提前到今年底就要完成原先是明年底\n\n6\n00:01:38,175 --> 00:02:02,968\n他提早兩年提早兩年來完成所以變成就是說他很清楚這個這個區域安全的這個重要性這個國防安全軍備的這個重要性所以以過去這個高市他對於台灣這種友台的態度對於中國的態度過去來講他是比較強硬的所以我想請教就是說以高市的這友台的態度跟強化對中\n\n7\n00:02:03,388 --> 00:02:19,266\n警戒跟這個制衡的狀況之下未來會如何影響東亞的這個局勢對我想委員剛剛已經很完整的把那個高市首相的一些安保政策的一個路線跟思維都做得非常明顯的一個清楚的一個勾勒\n\n8\n00:02:20,167 --> 00:02:44,319\n大概判斷上來講第一個他會強化美日安保在昨天的川高會過程當中也具體到了要讓美日安保進入新的黃金年代展示了加強美日安保的一個決心他也認為美日安保有一些弱項要去強化包括要去加強日本的遠程打擊的火力以及網路作戰的能力這一部分\n\n9\n00:02:44,739 --> 00:03:13,840\n几乎切入的角度就是在于美日安保比较弱的一个项目那看起来他有这样的一个决心那透过防卫预算的增加来支应日本这一方面的一个财政的资源那第二部分是在美日安保的架构之下他很有可能还会去串联出所谓美日加恩的一个更多边的合作机制那这也是委员刚好提到那高市有一直在倡议可能美日加上其他的理念相近国家应该有这种准安全\n\n10\n00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:44,000\n合作準安全同盟的概念所以我想第二個重點就在於一個穩固的美日安保之下所延伸出來的美日加N理念相近國家的合作機制那這樣的合作機制有可能反映的是包括在供應鏈的安全包括在應處區域的這些比較揮帶的騷擾或中共的一個軍事動態那就本局來講我們當然有我們的管道在進行這方面的戰略溝通那不過可能不適合來公開的說明這樣\n\n11\n00:03:45,440 --> 00:04:07,008\n所以你們其實在高市早苗上任之後其實台灣有很多這方面的管道在跟我們日本的新的政府在做溝通因為高市一再的強調所謂的FOIP這也是2016年安倍所提出來的\n\n12\n00:04:07,968 --> 00:04:13,433\n一個自由開放的印太區域的這個構想我想他也說台灣其實可以創立這個準安全同盟所以我們也在認為說他上任之後是不是準安全同盟這個構想會成形可能是指日可待的只是說這樣子的一個同盟的它的一個\n\n13\n00:04:29,887 --> 00:04:52,805\n過去的這個態度會不會說造成一個東亞一個新的一個局面他跟這個過去這個石破茂的這個態度其實是有一點不太一樣的他處事的方式還有積極度來講的話我在想對東亞未來的局勢應該會有一定的影響可能局長覺得說這方面不是這個時候不是那麼的方便來\n\n14\n00:04:53,946 --> 00:05:04,575\n做說明嗎還是怎麼樣我們基本上講的這些政策發展方向都是對的啦那也都有在進行那我剛剛只是在說明說有些進行的實際的狀況比較不適合公開的討論那這種所謂的安全的合作\n\n15\n00:05:09,219 --> 00:05:31,198\n現在的安全觀幾乎都是比較綜合性的安全觀所以我才會跟委員報告這種綜合性安全觀之下的一個合作有可能是包括經濟安全的有可能是包括非總統安全的那也有可能是針對傳統安全軍事活動相關情資的交換或是戰略溝通的機制這個部分都會透過各種管道用方式來進行這樣\n\n16\n00:05:32,179 --> 00:05:53,067\nOK好了解謝謝局長再來下一題就是要提到這兩天我在想局長你應該有注意到那個報導就是中國籍的偷渡客在等待遣返的期間可能會造成一些國安的疑慮我們在想說以目前的這個現行的收容制度對這偷渡客尤其是中國的偷渡客是不是造成了很大的一個漏洞\n\n17\n00:05:53,667 --> 00:06:20,985\n那像現行的這個制度的話這個偷渡客被逮捕之後呢就會進入司法的這個審理我們會移交移民署會移交到這個地檢署然後進行司法的審理之後呢就會進入到這個收容所可是收容所它收容的時間最長就150天那我們也知道說現在這個中國我們跟中國之間的這個遣返的這個作業其實也幾乎是等於停滯所以它收容了150天之後呢\n\n18\n00:06:25,288 --> 00:06:52,347\n轉為這個收容替代處分也就是在收容替代處分這段期間他其實是可以在台灣爬爬造的所以最近這兩天我們看到這報導也有說來到台灣之後回到那裡突然間就把在台灣過去這個在收容替代處分期間所拍攝到的一些影片然後上傳到這個YouTube然後再來跟大家說明說我是怎麼樣偷渡的我的路線是怎麼樣等等\n\n19\n00:06:53,248 --> 00:07:20,351\n讓人家覺得說我們台灣真的是對這方面真的非常的鬆散所以我想請教局長我們國安單位有沒有要來做檢討到底目前我們現行的制度是不是存在了一些風險我們也沒有做過評估因為他們絕對不是單純的移民管理的問題他們是中國的偷渡客那之前我有看那個檢察總長有曾經提說目前我們看到中國的偷渡客很多跟過去不太一樣\n\n20\n00:07:20,951 --> 00:07:43,477\n過去的話大概就是偷渡過來就是躲躲藏藏可是他們現在不是他等著你來抓他耶是他們都已經研究過了沒關係我就是等你們來抓我然後我進入到收容所之後我就等待那個空窗期那我就開始來收集情資這是不是造成很大的安全的漏洞我們這部分有沒有來做檢討有沒有做討論跟我們說明一下這大概分為幾個部分第一個部分當然是不要\n\n21\n00:07:44,177 --> 00:08:10,098\n有偷渡客上岸因為一上岸之後就會啟動我們所謂的入出國管理法的一些處置程序那第二部分是針對這些偷渡客相關比較全面性的樣態我們都有在分析來自於哪個地方他偷渡的求渡的工具是什麼那以及他個人的一些背景我們會做一些交叉比對來看有沒有一些基本的樣態這是第二部分\n\n22\n00:08:10,538 --> 00:08:32,484\n那第三部分是針對個案的部分那每一個偷渡客他可能有不同的狀況我們會來了解一下每一個個案的實際的一個情形那他假如走完我們的法律程序之後沒有辦法立刻遣送回中國的話那當然會進入到委員所提到的替代收容的一個階段那這部分當然就是他每天都要定期到指定的一個警察機關來做報到\n\n23\n00:08:34,204 --> 00:08:59,185\n那假如說有比較特殊的案例的話那我們國安情報機關也會再特別注意一下他們的動態有沒有去侵犯到我們的一個國安的疑慮可是本席是懷疑說剛剛局長講的都沒有落實為什麼有些偷渡客他可以到就是在你說每天都要去報到嘛可是為什麼他有時間到小琉球去拍影片他可以到處趴趴照\n\n24\n00:08:59,966 --> 00:09:15,709\n所以這個我們真的有在落實可能也許是空有法令可是沒有實際上的執行我想這國安單位都要來檢討再來的話是針對這種中國籍的偷渡客真的樣態真的跟過去不太一樣\n\n25\n00:09:16,950 --> 00:09:44,746\n所以說我覺得這部分真的是要重新來做檢討他們真的不是一般的移民管理的問題跟一般的非法逃獄移工是不一樣的針對這些對象我們要如何加強來管理尤其是這些反正你等著我們的檢調單位等著警察來海巡等著他們來拘捕然後一副跟過去真的不一樣的這些都是很特殊很特別的樣態要特別的去做留意\n\n26\n00:09:44,986 --> 00:10:09,966\n我們謝謝委員的提醒那我們也會持續的來跟移民單位來畢竟夜館單位是在移民單位那在這些大陸偷渡客替代收容的階段他的一個活動的形態是不是該有更多的一個規範那這部分我們來跟移民單位做討論那我特別強調的是只要真的是有比較特殊或有問題為異常為常異常的個案那我們會有特殊的方式專案來處理\n\n27\n00:10:11,927 --> 00:10:21,479\n這部分我可能會再找國安局再討論因為針對這個部分我們覺得其實不是那麼的單純我們是不是太過於送善了好以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1646\t5549\t謝謝主席 有請蔡局長好 我們請蔡局長好 謝謝主席 羅委員長\n13560\t37986\t局長早 局長本期今天早上想跟局長聊一聊日本新首相高士早苗我們都知道高士早苗向來他的態度就是親美友台像今年四月份高士早苗他以眾議院的身份來到台灣的時候其實受到台派人士的歡迎所以這次高士的當選我想大家都距離\n38866\t54219\t深得這個祝福之外呢其實對他是有很大的這個期待那今年四月份其實高市回到日本之後呢他有提到他就公開的建議就是說日本跟台灣應該要建立準安全聯盟\n54759\t82567\t他在當眾議員的時候他其實就已經提出了這樣子的構想那甚至在當選這個自民黨的黨魁之後呢他再次重申了這個安倍的這個名言就是台灣有事就是日本有事我想這句話其實意義非常的深絕對不是說你是我的兄弟那種感覺其實高市也好安倍也好他很清楚就是說在地緣政治來講或者是在這個區域安全來講的話確確實實就是台灣有事日本一定會有事\n83127\t97615\t所以為什麼這次這個高士當選為這個首相之後呢他主張將國防軍費呢這個佔GDP百分之二的這個目標提前到今年底就要完成原先是明年底\n98175\t122968\t他提早兩年 提早兩年來完成所以變成就是說 他很清楚這個這個區域安全的這個重要性這個國防安全軍備的這個重要性所以以過去這個高市他對於台灣這種友台的態度對於中國的態度過去來講 他是比較強硬的所以我想請教就是說以高市的這友台的態度跟強化對中\n123388\t139266\t警戒跟這個制衡的狀況之下未來會如何影響東亞的這個局勢對 我想委員剛剛已經很完整的把那個高市首相的一些安保政策的一個路線跟思維都做得非常明顯的一個清楚的一個勾勒\n140167\t164319\t大概判斷上來講第一個他會強化美日安保在昨天的川高會過程當中也具體到了要讓美日安保進入新的黃金年代展示了加強美日安保的一個決心他也認為美日安保有一些弱項要去強化包括要去加強日本的遠程打擊的火力以及網路作戰的能力這一部分\n164739\t193840\t几乎切入的角度就是在于美日安保比较弱的一个项目那看起来他有这样的一个决心那透过防卫预算的增加来支应日本这一方面的一个财政的资源那第二部分是在美日安保的架构之下他很有可能还会去串联出所谓美日加恩的一个更多边的合作机制那这也是委员刚好提到那高市有一直在倡议可能美日加上其他的理念相近国家应该有这种准安全\n194520\t224000\t合作準安全同盟的概念所以我想第二個重點就在於一個穩固的美日安保之下所延伸出來的美日加N理念相近國家的合作機制那這樣的合作機制有可能反映的是包括在供應鏈的安全包括在應處區域的這些比較揮帶的騷擾或中共的一個軍事動態那就本局來講我們當然有我們的管道在進行這方面的戰略溝通那不過可能不適合來公開的說明這樣\n225440\t247008\t所以你們其實在高市早苗上任之後其實台灣有很多這方面的管道在跟我們日本的新的政府在做溝通因為高市一再的強調所謂的FOIP這也是2016年安倍所提出來的\n247968\t253433\t一個自由開放的印太區域的這個構想我想他也說台灣其實可以創立這個準安全同盟所以我們也在認為說他上任之後是不是準安全同盟這個構想會成形可能是指日可待的只是說這樣子的一個同盟的它的一個\n269887\t292805\t過去的這個態度會不會說造成一個東亞一個新的一個局面他跟這個過去這個石破茂的這個態度其實是有一點不太一樣的他處事的方式還有積極度來講的話我在想對東亞未來的局勢應該會有一定的影響可能局長覺得說這方面不是這個時候不是那麼的方便來\n293946\t304575\t做說明嗎還是怎麼樣我們基本上講的這些政策發展方向都是對的啦那也都有在進行那我剛剛只是在說明說有些進行的實際的狀況比較不適合公開的討論那這種所謂的安全的合作\n309219\t331198\t現在的安全觀幾乎都是比較綜合性的安全觀所以我才會跟委員報告這種綜合性安全觀之下的一個合作有可能是包括經濟安全的有可能是包括非總統安全的那也有可能是針對傳統安全軍事活動相關情資的交換或是戰略溝通的機制這個部分都會透過各種管道用方式來進行這樣\n332179\t353067\tOK 好了解謝謝局長再來下一題就是要提到這兩天我在想局長你應該有注意到那個報導就是中國籍的偷渡客在等待遣返的期間可能會造成一些國安的疑慮我們在想說以目前的這個現行的收容制度對這偷渡客尤其是中國的偷渡客是不是造成了很大的一個漏洞\n353667\t380985\t那像現行的這個制度的話這個偷渡客被逮捕之後呢就會進入司法的這個審理我們會移交移民署會移交到這個地檢署然後進行司法的審理之後呢就會進入到這個收容所可是收容所它收容的時間最長就150天那我們也知道說現在這個中國我們跟中國之間的這個遣返的這個作業其實也幾乎是等於停滯所以它收容了150天之後呢\n385288\t412347\t轉為這個收容替代處分也就是在收容替代處分這段期間他其實是可以在台灣爬爬造的所以最近這兩天我們看到這報導也有說來到台灣之後回到那裡突然間就把在台灣過去這個在收容替代處分期間所拍攝到的一些影片然後上傳到這個YouTube然後再來跟大家說明說我是怎麼樣偷渡的我的路線是怎麼樣等等\n413248\t440351\t讓人家覺得說我們台灣真的是對這方面真的非常的鬆散所以我想請教局長我們國安單位有沒有要來做檢討到底目前我們現行的制度是不是存在了一些風險我們也沒有做過評估因為他們絕對不是單純的移民管理的問題他們是中國的偷渡客那之前我有看那個檢察總長有曾經提說目前我們看到中國的偷渡客很多跟過去不太一樣\n440951\t463477\t過去的話大概就是偷渡過來就是躲躲藏藏可是他們現在不是他等著你來抓他耶是他們都已經研究過了沒關係我就是等你們來抓我然後我進入到收容所之後我就等待那個空窗期那我就開始來收集情資這是不是造成很大的安全的漏洞我們這部分有沒有來做檢討有沒有做討論跟我們說明一下這大概分為幾個部分第一個部分當然是不要\n464177\t490098\t有偷渡客上岸因為一上岸之後就會啟動我們所謂的入出國管理法的一些處置程序那第二部分是針對這些偷渡客相關比較全面性的樣態我們都有在分析來自於哪個地方他偷渡的求渡的工具是什麼那以及他個人的一些背景我們會做一些交叉比對來看有沒有一些基本的樣態這是第二部分\n490538\t512484\t那第三部分是針對個案的部分那每一個偷渡客他可能有不同的狀況我們會來了解一下每一個個案的實際的一個情形那他假如走完我們的法律程序之後沒有辦法立刻遣送回中國的話那當然會進入到委員所提到的替代收容的一個階段那這部分當然就是他每天都要定期到指定的一個警察機關來做報到\n514204\t539185\t那假如說有比較特殊的案例的話那我們國安情報機關也會再特別注意一下他們的動態有沒有去侵犯到我們的一個國安的疑慮可是本席是懷疑說剛剛局長講的都沒有落實為什麼有些偷渡客他可以到就是在你說每天都要去報到嘛可是為什麼他有時間到小琉球去拍影片他可以到處趴趴照\n539966\t555709\t所以這個我們真的有在落實可能也許是空有法令可是沒有實際上的執行我想這國安單位都要來檢討再來的話是針對這種中國籍的偷渡客真的樣態真的跟過去不太一樣\n556950\t584746\t所以說我覺得這部分真的是要重新來做檢討他們真的不是一般的移民管理的問題跟一般的非法逃獄移工是不一樣的針對這些對象我們要如何加強來管理尤其是這些反正你等著我們的檢調單位等著警察來海巡等著他們來拘捕然後一副跟過去真的不一樣的這些都是很特殊很特別的樣態要特別的去做留意\n584986\t609966\t我們謝謝委員的提醒那我們也會持續的來跟移民單位來畢竟夜館單位是在移民單位那在這些大陸偷渡客替代收容的階段他的一個活動的形態是不是該有更多的一個規範那這部分我們來跟移民單位做討論那我特別強調的是只要真的是有比較特殊或有問題為異常 為常異常的個案那我們會有特殊的方式專案來處理\n611927\t621479\t這部分我可能會再找國安局再討論因為針對這個部分我們覺得其實不是那麼的單純我們是不是太過於送善了好 以上謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請蔡局長好 我們請蔡局長好 謝謝主席 羅委員長\n局長早 局長本期今天早上想跟局長聊一聊日本新首相高士早苗我們都知道高士早苗向來他的態度就是親美友台像今年四月份高士早苗他以眾議院的身份來到台灣的時候其實受到台派人士的歡迎所以這次高士的當選我想大家都距離\n深得這個祝福之外呢其實對他是有很大的這個期待那今年四月份其實高市回到日本之後呢他有提到他就公開的建議就是說日本跟台灣應該要建立準安全聯盟\n他在當眾議員的時候他其實就已經提出了這樣子的構想那甚至在當選這個自民黨的黨魁之後呢他再次重申了這個安倍的這個名言就是台灣有事就是日本有事我想這句話其實意義非常的深絕對不是說你是我的兄弟那種感覺其實高市也好安倍也好他很清楚就是說在地緣政治來講或者是在這個區域安全來講的話確確實實就是台灣有事日本一定會有事\n所以為什麼這次這個高士當選為這個首相之後呢他主張將國防軍費呢這個佔GDP百分之二的這個目標提前到今年底就要完成原先是明年底\n他提早兩年 提早兩年來完成所以變成就是說 他很清楚這個這個區域安全的這個重要性這個國防安全軍備的這個重要性所以以過去這個高市他對於台灣這種友台的態度對於中國的態度過去來講 他是比較強硬的所以我想請教就是說以高市的這友台的態度跟強化對中\n警戒跟這個制衡的狀況之下未來會如何影響東亞的這個局勢對 我想委員剛剛已經很完整的把那個高市首相的一些安保政策的一個路線跟思維都做得非常明顯的一個清楚的一個勾勒\n大概判斷上來講第一個他會強化美日安保在昨天的川高會過程當中也具體到了要讓美日安保進入新的黃金年代展示了加強美日安保的一個決心他也認為美日安保有一些弱項要去強化包括要去加強日本的遠程打擊的火力以及網路作戰的能力這一部分\n几乎切入的角度就是在于美日安保比较弱的一个项目那看起来他有这样的一个决心那透过防卫预算的增加来支应日本这一方面的一个财政的资源那第二部分是在美日安保的架构之下他很有可能还会去串联出所谓美日加恩的一个更多边的合作机制那这也是委员刚好提到那高市有一直在倡议可能美日加上其他的理念相近国家应该有这种准安全\n合作準安全同盟的概念所以我想第二個重點就在於一個穩固的美日安保之下所延伸出來的美日加N理念相近國家的合作機制那這樣的合作機制有可能反映的是包括在供應鏈的安全包括在應處區域的這些比較揮帶的騷擾或中共的一個軍事動態那就本局來講我們當然有我們的管道在進行這方面的戰略溝通那不過可能不適合來公開的說明這樣\n所以你們其實在高市早苗上任之後其實台灣有很多這方面的管道在跟我們日本的新的政府在做溝通因為高市一再的強調所謂的FOIP這也是2016年安倍所提出來的\n一個自由開放的印太區域的這個構想我想他也說台灣其實可以創立這個準安全同盟所以我們也在認為說他上任之後是不是準安全同盟這個構想會成形可能是指日可待的只是說這樣子的一個同盟的它的一個\n過去的這個態度會不會說造成一個東亞一個新的一個局面他跟這個過去這個石破茂的這個態度其實是有一點不太一樣的他處事的方式還有積極度來講的話我在想對東亞未來的局勢應該會有一定的影響可能局長覺得說這方面不是這個時候不是那麼的方便來\n做說明嗎還是怎麼樣我們基本上講的這些政策發展方向都是對的啦那也都有在進行那我剛剛只是在說明說有些進行的實際的狀況比較不適合公開的討論那這種所謂的安全的合作\n現在的安全觀幾乎都是比較綜合性的安全觀所以我才會跟委員報告這種綜合性安全觀之下的一個合作有可能是包括經濟安全的有可能是包括非總統安全的那也有可能是針對傳統安全軍事活動相關情資的交換或是戰略溝通的機制這個部分都會透過各種管道用方式來進行這樣\nOK 好了解謝謝局長再來下一題就是要提到這兩天我在想局長你應該有注意到那個報導就是中國籍的偷渡客在等待遣返的期間可能會造成一些國安的疑慮我們在想說以目前的這個現行的收容制度對這偷渡客尤其是中國的偷渡客是不是造成了很大的一個漏洞\n那像現行的這個制度的話這個偷渡客被逮捕之後呢就會進入司法的這個審理我們會移交移民署會移交到這個地檢署然後進行司法的審理之後呢就會進入到這個收容所可是收容所它收容的時間最長就150天那我們也知道說現在這個中國我們跟中國之間的這個遣返的這個作業其實也幾乎是等於停滯所以它收容了150天之後呢\n轉為這個收容替代處分也就是在收容替代處分這段期間他其實是可以在台灣爬爬造的所以最近這兩天我們看到這報導也有說來到台灣之後回到那裡突然間就把在台灣過去這個在收容替代處分期間所拍攝到的一些影片然後上傳到這個YouTube然後再來跟大家說明說我是怎麼樣偷渡的我的路線是怎麼樣等等\n讓人家覺得說我們台灣真的是對這方面真的非常的鬆散所以我想請教局長我們國安單位有沒有要來做檢討到底目前我們現行的制度是不是存在了一些風險我們也沒有做過評估因為他們絕對不是單純的移民管理的問題他們是中國的偷渡客那之前我有看那個檢察總長有曾經提說目前我們看到中國的偷渡客很多跟過去不太一樣\n過去的話大概就是偷渡過來就是躲躲藏藏可是他們現在不是他等著你來抓他耶是他們都已經研究過了沒關係我就是等你們來抓我然後我進入到收容所之後我就等待那個空窗期那我就開始來收集情資這是不是造成很大的安全的漏洞我們這部分有沒有來做檢討有沒有做討論跟我們說明一下這大概分為幾個部分第一個部分當然是不要\n有偷渡客上岸因為一上岸之後就會啟動我們所謂的入出國管理法的一些處置程序那第二部分是針對這些偷渡客相關比較全面性的樣態我們都有在分析來自於哪個地方他偷渡的求渡的工具是什麼那以及他個人的一些背景我們會做一些交叉比對來看有沒有一些基本的樣態這是第二部分\n那第三部分是針對個案的部分那每一個偷渡客他可能有不同的狀況我們會來了解一下每一個個案的實際的一個情形那他假如走完我們的法律程序之後沒有辦法立刻遣送回中國的話那當然會進入到委員所提到的替代收容的一個階段那這部分當然就是他每天都要定期到指定的一個警察機關來做報到\n那假如說有比較特殊的案例的話那我們國安情報機關也會再特別注意一下他們的動態有沒有去侵犯到我們的一個國安的疑慮可是本席是懷疑說剛剛局長講的都沒有落實為什麼有些偷渡客他可以到就是在你說每天都要去報到嘛可是為什麼他有時間到小琉球去拍影片他可以到處趴趴照\n所以這個我們真的有在落實可能也許是空有法令可是沒有實際上的執行我想這國安單位都要來檢討再來的話是針對這種中國籍的偷渡客真的樣態真的跟過去不太一樣\n所以說我覺得這部分真的是要重新來做檢討他們真的不是一般的移民管理的問題跟一般的非法逃獄移工是不一樣的針對這些對象我們要如何加強來管理尤其是這些反正你等著我們的檢調單位等著警察來海巡等著他們來拘捕然後一副跟過去真的不一樣的這些都是很特殊很特別的樣態要特別的去做留意\n我們謝謝委員的提醒那我們也會持續的來跟移民單位來畢竟夜館單位是在移民單位那在這些大陸偷渡客替代收容的階段他的一個活動的形態是不是該有更多的一個規範那這部分我們來跟移民單位做討論那我特別強調的是只要真的是有比較特殊或有問題為異常 為常異常的個案那我們會有特殊的方式專案來處理\n這部分我可能會再找國安局再討論因為針對這個部分我們覺得其實不是那麼的單純我們是不是太過於送善了好 以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.646 --> 00:05.549\n謝謝主席有請蔡局長好我們請蔡局長好謝謝主席羅委員長\n\n00:13.560 --> 00:37.986\n局長早局長本期今天早上想跟局長聊一聊日本新首相高士早苗我們都知道高士早苗向來他的態度就是親美友台像今年四月份高士早苗他以眾議院的身份來到台灣的時候其實受到台派人士的歡迎所以這次高士的當選我想大家都距離\n\n00:38.866 --> 00:54.219\n深得這個祝福之外呢其實對他是有很大的這個期待那今年四月份其實高市回到日本之後呢他有提到他就公開的建議就是說日本跟台灣應該要建立準安全聯盟\n\n00:54.759 --> 01:22.567\n他在當眾議員的時候他其實就已經提出了這樣子的構想那甚至在當選這個自民黨的黨魁之後呢他再次重申了這個安倍的這個名言就是台灣有事就是日本有事我想這句話其實意義非常的深絕對不是說你是我的兄弟那種感覺其實高市也好安倍也好他很清楚就是說在地緣政治來講或者是在這個區域安全來講的話確確實實就是台灣有事日本一定會有事\n\n01:23.127 --> 01:37.615\n所以為什麼這次這個高士當選為這個首相之後呢他主張將國防軍費呢這個佔GDP百分之二的這個目標提前到今年底就要完成原先是明年底\n\n01:38.175 --> 02:02.968\n他提早兩年提早兩年來完成所以變成就是說他很清楚這個這個區域安全的這個重要性這個國防安全軍備的這個重要性所以以過去這個高市他對於台灣這種友台的態度對於中國的態度過去來講他是比較強硬的所以我想請教就是說以高市的這友台的態度跟強化對中\n\n02:03.388 --> 02:19.266\n警戒跟這個制衡的狀況之下未來會如何影響東亞的這個局勢對我想委員剛剛已經很完整的把那個高市首相的一些安保政策的一個路線跟思維都做得非常明顯的一個清楚的一個勾勒\n\n02:20.167 --> 02:44.319\n大概判斷上來講第一個他會強化美日安保在昨天的川高會過程當中也具體到了要讓美日安保進入新的黃金年代展示了加強美日安保的一個決心他也認為美日安保有一些弱項要去強化包括要去加強日本的遠程打擊的火力以及網路作戰的能力這一部分\n\n02:44.739 --> 03:13.840\n几乎切入的角度就是在于美日安保比较弱的一个项目那看起来他有这样的一个决心那透过防卫预算的增加来支应日本这一方面的一个财政的资源那第二部分是在美日安保的架构之下他很有可能还会去串联出所谓美日加恩的一个更多边的合作机制那这也是委员刚好提到那高市有一直在倡议可能美日加上其他的理念相近国家应该有这种准安全\n\n03:14.520 --> 03:44.000\n合作準安全同盟的概念所以我想第二個重點就在於一個穩固的美日安保之下所延伸出來的美日加N理念相近國家的合作機制那這樣的合作機制有可能反映的是包括在供應鏈的安全包括在應處區域的這些比較揮帶的騷擾或中共的一個軍事動態那就本局來講我們當然有我們的管道在進行這方面的戰略溝通那不過可能不適合來公開的說明這樣\n\n03:45.440 --> 04:07.008\n所以你們其實在高市早苗上任之後其實台灣有很多這方面的管道在跟我們日本的新的政府在做溝通因為高市一再的強調所謂的FOIP這也是2016年安倍所提出來的\n\n04:07.968 --> 04:13.433\n一個自由開放的印太區域的這個構想我想他也說台灣其實可以創立這個準安全同盟所以我們也在認為說他上任之後是不是準安全同盟這個構想會成形可能是指日可待的只是說這樣子的一個同盟的它的一個\n\n04:29.887 --> 04:52.805\n過去的這個態度會不會說造成一個東亞一個新的一個局面他跟這個過去這個石破茂的這個態度其實是有一點不太一樣的他處事的方式還有積極度來講的話我在想對東亞未來的局勢應該會有一定的影響可能局長覺得說這方面不是這個時候不是那麼的方便來\n\n04:53.946 --> 05:04.575\n做說明嗎還是怎麼樣我們基本上講的這些政策發展方向都是對的啦那也都有在進行那我剛剛只是在說明說有些進行的實際的狀況比較不適合公開的討論那這種所謂的安全的合作\n\n05:09.219 --> 05:31.198\n現在的安全觀幾乎都是比較綜合性的安全觀所以我才會跟委員報告這種綜合性安全觀之下的一個合作有可能是包括經濟安全的有可能是包括非總統安全的那也有可能是針對傳統安全軍事活動相關情資的交換或是戰略溝通的機制這個部分都會透過各種管道用方式來進行這樣\n\n05:32.179 --> 05:53.067\nOK好了解謝謝局長再來下一題就是要提到這兩天我在想局長你應該有注意到那個報導就是中國籍的偷渡客在等待遣返的期間可能會造成一些國安的疑慮我們在想說以目前的這個現行的收容制度對這偷渡客尤其是中國的偷渡客是不是造成了很大的一個漏洞\n\n05:53.667 --> 06:20.985\n那像現行的這個制度的話這個偷渡客被逮捕之後呢就會進入司法的這個審理我們會移交移民署會移交到這個地檢署然後進行司法的審理之後呢就會進入到這個收容所可是收容所它收容的時間最長就150天那我們也知道說現在這個中國我們跟中國之間的這個遣返的這個作業其實也幾乎是等於停滯所以它收容了150天之後呢\n\n06:25.288 --> 06:52.347\n轉為這個收容替代處分也就是在收容替代處分這段期間他其實是可以在台灣爬爬造的所以最近這兩天我們看到這報導也有說來到台灣之後回到那裡突然間就把在台灣過去這個在收容替代處分期間所拍攝到的一些影片然後上傳到這個YouTube然後再來跟大家說明說我是怎麼樣偷渡的我的路線是怎麼樣等等\n\n06:53.248 --> 07:20.351\n讓人家覺得說我們台灣真的是對這方面真的非常的鬆散所以我想請教局長我們國安單位有沒有要來做檢討到底目前我們現行的制度是不是存在了一些風險我們也沒有做過評估因為他們絕對不是單純的移民管理的問題他們是中國的偷渡客那之前我有看那個檢察總長有曾經提說目前我們看到中國的偷渡客很多跟過去不太一樣\n\n07:20.951 --> 07:43.477\n過去的話大概就是偷渡過來就是躲躲藏藏可是他們現在不是他等著你來抓他耶是他們都已經研究過了沒關係我就是等你們來抓我然後我進入到收容所之後我就等待那個空窗期那我就開始來收集情資這是不是造成很大的安全的漏洞我們這部分有沒有來做檢討有沒有做討論跟我們說明一下這大概分為幾個部分第一個部分當然是不要\n\n07:44.177 --> 08:10.098\n有偷渡客上岸因為一上岸之後就會啟動我們所謂的入出國管理法的一些處置程序那第二部分是針對這些偷渡客相關比較全面性的樣態我們都有在分析來自於哪個地方他偷渡的求渡的工具是什麼那以及他個人的一些背景我們會做一些交叉比對來看有沒有一些基本的樣態這是第二部分\n\n08:10.538 --> 08:32.484\n那第三部分是針對個案的部分那每一個偷渡客他可能有不同的狀況我們會來了解一下每一個個案的實際的一個情形那他假如走完我們的法律程序之後沒有辦法立刻遣送回中國的話那當然會進入到委員所提到的替代收容的一個階段那這部分當然就是他每天都要定期到指定的一個警察機關來做報到\n\n08:34.204 --> 08:59.185\n那假如說有比較特殊的案例的話那我們國安情報機關也會再特別注意一下他們的動態有沒有去侵犯到我們的一個國安的疑慮可是本席是懷疑說剛剛局長講的都沒有落實為什麼有些偷渡客他可以到就是在你說每天都要去報到嘛可是為什麼他有時間到小琉球去拍影片他可以到處趴趴照\n\n08:59.966 --> 09:15.709\n所以這個我們真的有在落實可能也許是空有法令可是沒有實際上的執行我想這國安單位都要來檢討再來的話是針對這種中國籍的偷渡客真的樣態真的跟過去不太一樣\n\n09:16.950 --> 09:44.746\n所以說我覺得這部分真的是要重新來做檢討他們真的不是一般的移民管理的問題跟一般的非法逃獄移工是不一樣的針對這些對象我們要如何加強來管理尤其是這些反正你等著我們的檢調單位等著警察來海巡等著他們來拘捕然後一副跟過去真的不一樣的這些都是很特殊很特別的樣態要特別的去做留意\n\n09:44.986 --> 10:09.966\n我們謝謝委員的提醒那我們也會持續的來跟移民單位來畢竟夜館單位是在移民單位那在這些大陸偷渡客替代收容的階段他的一個活動的形態是不是該有更多的一個規範那這部分我們來跟移民單位做討論那我特別強調的是只要真的是有比較特殊或有問題為異常為常異常的個案那我們會有特殊的方式專案來處理\n\n10:11.927 --> 10:21.479\n這部分我可能會再找國安局再討論因為針對這個部分我們覺得其實不是那麼的單純我們是不是太過於送善了好以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.646,"end":5.549,"text":"謝謝主席 有請蔡局長好 我們請蔡局長好 謝謝主席 羅委員長"},{"start":13.56,"end":37.986,"text":"局長早 局長本期今天早上想跟局長聊一聊日本新首相高士早苗我們都知道高士早苗向來他的態度就是親美友台像今年四月份高士早苗他以眾議院的身份來到台灣的時候其實受到台派人士的歡迎所以這次高士的當選我想大家都距離"},{"start":38.866,"end":54.219,"text":"深得這個祝福之外呢其實對他是有很大的這個期待那今年四月份其實高市回到日本之後呢他有提到他就公開的建議就是說日本跟台灣應該要建立準安全聯盟"},{"start":54.759,"end":82.567,"text":"他在當眾議員的時候他其實就已經提出了這樣子的構想那甚至在當選這個自民黨的黨魁之後呢他再次重申了這個安倍的這個名言就是台灣有事就是日本有事我想這句話其實意義非常的深絕對不是說你是我的兄弟那種感覺其實高市也好安倍也好他很清楚就是說在地緣政治來講或者是在這個區域安全來講的話確確實實就是台灣有事日本一定會有事"},{"start":83.127,"end":97.615,"text":"所以為什麼這次這個高士當選為這個首相之後呢他主張將國防軍費呢這個佔GDP百分之二的這個目標提前到今年底就要完成原先是明年底"},{"start":98.175,"end":122.968,"text":"他提早兩年 提早兩年來完成所以變成就是說 他很清楚這個這個區域安全的這個重要性這個國防安全軍備的這個重要性所以以過去這個高市他對於台灣這種友台的態度對於中國的態度過去來講 他是比較強硬的所以我想請教就是說以高市的這友台的態度跟強化對中"},{"start":123.388,"end":139.266,"text":"警戒跟這個制衡的狀況之下未來會如何影響東亞的這個局勢對 我想委員剛剛已經很完整的把那個高市首相的一些安保政策的一個路線跟思維都做得非常明顯的一個清楚的一個勾勒"},{"start":140.167,"end":164.319,"text":"大概判斷上來講第一個他會強化美日安保在昨天的川高會過程當中也具體到了要讓美日安保進入新的黃金年代展示了加強美日安保的一個決心他也認為美日安保有一些弱項要去強化包括要去加強日本的遠程打擊的火力以及網路作戰的能力這一部分"},{"start":164.739,"end":193.84,"text":"几乎切入的角度就是在于美日安保比较弱的一个项目那看起来他有这样的一个决心那透过防卫预算的增加来支应日本这一方面的一个财政的资源那第二部分是在美日安保的架构之下他很有可能还会去串联出所谓美日加恩的一个更多边的合作机制那这也是委员刚好提到那高市有一直在倡议可能美日加上其他的理念相近国家应该有这种准安全"},{"start":194.52,"end":224,"text":"合作準安全同盟的概念所以我想第二個重點就在於一個穩固的美日安保之下所延伸出來的美日加N理念相近國家的合作機制那這樣的合作機制有可能反映的是包括在供應鏈的安全包括在應處區域的這些比較揮帶的騷擾或中共的一個軍事動態那就本局來講我們當然有我們的管道在進行這方面的戰略溝通那不過可能不適合來公開的說明這樣"},{"start":225.44,"end":247.008,"text":"所以你們其實在高市早苗上任之後其實台灣有很多這方面的管道在跟我們日本的新的政府在做溝通因為高市一再的強調所謂的FOIP這也是2016年安倍所提出來的"},{"start":247.968,"end":253.433,"text":"一個自由開放的印太區域的這個構想我想他也說台灣其實可以創立這個準安全同盟所以我們也在認為說他上任之後是不是準安全同盟這個構想會成形可能是指日可待的只是說這樣子的一個同盟的它的一個"},{"start":269.887,"end":292.805,"text":"過去的這個態度會不會說造成一個東亞一個新的一個局面他跟這個過去這個石破茂的這個態度其實是有一點不太一樣的他處事的方式還有積極度來講的話我在想對東亞未來的局勢應該會有一定的影響可能局長覺得說這方面不是這個時候不是那麼的方便來"},{"start":293.946,"end":304.575,"text":"做說明嗎還是怎麼樣我們基本上講的這些政策發展方向都是對的啦那也都有在進行那我剛剛只是在說明說有些進行的實際的狀況比較不適合公開的討論那這種所謂的安全的合作"},{"start":309.219,"end":331.198,"text":"現在的安全觀幾乎都是比較綜合性的安全觀所以我才會跟委員報告這種綜合性安全觀之下的一個合作有可能是包括經濟安全的有可能是包括非總統安全的那也有可能是針對傳統安全軍事活動相關情資的交換或是戰略溝通的機制這個部分都會透過各種管道用方式來進行這樣"},{"start":332.179,"end":353.067,"text":"OK 好了解謝謝局長再來下一題就是要提到這兩天我在想局長你應該有注意到那個報導就是中國籍的偷渡客在等待遣返的期間可能會造成一些國安的疑慮我們在想說以目前的這個現行的收容制度對這偷渡客尤其是中國的偷渡客是不是造成了很大的一個漏洞"},{"start":353.667,"end":380.985,"text":"那像現行的這個制度的話這個偷渡客被逮捕之後呢就會進入司法的這個審理我們會移交移民署會移交到這個地檢署然後進行司法的審理之後呢就會進入到這個收容所可是收容所它收容的時間最長就150天那我們也知道說現在這個中國我們跟中國之間的這個遣返的這個作業其實也幾乎是等於停滯所以它收容了150天之後呢"},{"start":385.288,"end":412.347,"text":"轉為這個收容替代處分也就是在收容替代處分這段期間他其實是可以在台灣爬爬造的所以最近這兩天我們看到這報導也有說來到台灣之後回到那裡突然間就把在台灣過去這個在收容替代處分期間所拍攝到的一些影片然後上傳到這個YouTube然後再來跟大家說明說我是怎麼樣偷渡的我的路線是怎麼樣等等"},{"start":413.248,"end":440.351,"text":"讓人家覺得說我們台灣真的是對這方面真的非常的鬆散所以我想請教局長我們國安單位有沒有要來做檢討到底目前我們現行的制度是不是存在了一些風險我們也沒有做過評估因為他們絕對不是單純的移民管理的問題他們是中國的偷渡客那之前我有看那個檢察總長有曾經提說目前我們看到中國的偷渡客很多跟過去不太一樣"},{"start":440.951,"end":463.477,"text":"過去的話大概就是偷渡過來就是躲躲藏藏可是他們現在不是他等著你來抓他耶是他們都已經研究過了沒關係我就是等你們來抓我然後我進入到收容所之後我就等待那個空窗期那我就開始來收集情資這是不是造成很大的安全的漏洞我們這部分有沒有來做檢討有沒有做討論跟我們說明一下這大概分為幾個部分第一個部分當然是不要"},{"start":464.177,"end":490.098,"text":"有偷渡客上岸因為一上岸之後就會啟動我們所謂的入出國管理法的一些處置程序那第二部分是針對這些偷渡客相關比較全面性的樣態我們都有在分析來自於哪個地方他偷渡的求渡的工具是什麼那以及他個人的一些背景我們會做一些交叉比對來看有沒有一些基本的樣態這是第二部分"},{"start":490.538,"end":512.484,"text":"那第三部分是針對個案的部分那每一個偷渡客他可能有不同的狀況我們會來了解一下每一個個案的實際的一個情形那他假如走完我們的法律程序之後沒有辦法立刻遣送回中國的話那當然會進入到委員所提到的替代收容的一個階段那這部分當然就是他每天都要定期到指定的一個警察機關來做報到"},{"start":514.204,"end":539.185,"text":"那假如說有比較特殊的案例的話那我們國安情報機關也會再特別注意一下他們的動態有沒有去侵犯到我們的一個國安的疑慮可是本席是懷疑說剛剛局長講的都沒有落實為什麼有些偷渡客他可以到就是在你說每天都要去報到嘛可是為什麼他有時間到小琉球去拍影片他可以到處趴趴照"},{"start":539.966,"end":555.709,"text":"所以這個我們真的有在落實可能也許是空有法令可是沒有實際上的執行我想這國安單位都要來檢討再來的話是針對這種中國籍的偷渡客真的樣態真的跟過去不太一樣"},{"start":556.95,"end":584.746,"text":"所以說我覺得這部分真的是要重新來做檢討他們真的不是一般的移民管理的問題跟一般的非法逃獄移工是不一樣的針對這些對象我們要如何加強來管理尤其是這些反正你等著我們的檢調單位等著警察來海巡等著他們來拘捕然後一副跟過去真的不一樣的這些都是很特殊很特別的樣態要特別的去做留意"},{"start":584.986,"end":609.966,"text":"我們謝謝委員的提醒那我們也會持續的來跟移民單位來畢竟夜館單位是在移民單位那在這些大陸偷渡客替代收容的階段他的一個活動的形態是不是該有更多的一個規範那這部分我們來跟移民單位做討論那我特別強調的是只要真的是有比較特殊或有問題為異常 為常異常的個案那我們會有特殊的方式專案來處理"},{"start":611.927,"end":621.479,"text":"這部分我可能會再找國安局再討論因為針對這個部分我們覺得其實不是那麼的單純我們是不是太過於送善了好 以上謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":82,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（9時21分）謝謝主席，有請蔡局長。"],["主席：請蔡局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，羅委員早。"],["羅委員美玲：局長早。本席今天早上想跟局長聊一聊日本新首相高市早苗，我們都知道高市早苗向來的態度就是親美友臺，像今年4月份高市早苗以眾議員的身分來到臺灣時，其實受到臺派人士的歡迎，所以這次高市當選，我想大家除了寄予很深的祝福之外，其實對他也有很大的期待。今年四月份高市回到日本之後，他就公開建議日本跟臺灣應該要建立準安全聯盟，他在當眾議員的時候其實就已經提出這樣子的構想，甚至在當選自民黨黨魁之後，他再次重申安倍的名言：臺灣有事，就是日本有事。我想這句話意義非常深，絕對不只你是我的兄弟那種感覺。高市也好、安倍也好，很清楚的是，在地緣政治或區域安全來講，確確實實就是臺灣有事，日本一定會有事，這也是為什麼這次高市當選為首相之後，他主張將國防軍費占GDP2%的目標提前到今年底就要完成，原先是……"],["蔡局長明彥：明年。"],["羅委員美玲：明年底，他提早兩年完成，所以他很清楚區域安全的重要性及國防安全軍備的重要性。以過去高市對臺灣這種友臺的態度，而對中國的態度，過去來講他是比較強硬的。我想請教的是，以高市的友臺態度及強化對中警戒與制衡的狀況之下，未來會如何影響東亞局勢？"],["蔡局長明彥：委員剛剛已經很完整的把高市首相安保政策的路線跟思維都做了非常明顯清楚的勾勒，判斷上來講，第一個，他會強化美日安保，在昨天的川高會過程當中也提到要讓美日安保進入新的黃金年代，展示了加強美日安保的決心。他也認為美日安保有一些弱項要去強化，包括要去加強日本的遠程打擊火力及網路作戰能力，這一部分幾乎切入的角度就是在於美日安保比較弱的項目，看起來他有這樣的決心，透過防衛預算的增加來支應日本這一方面的財政資源。第二部分是在美日安保的架構之下，他很有可能還會去串聯出所謂美日加N的更多邊合作機制，這也是委員剛剛有提到的，高市有一直在倡議，可能美日加上其他理念相近的國家，應該有這種準安全合作、準安全同盟的概念。","我想第二個重點就在於一個穩固的美日安保之下所延伸出來的美日加N理念相近國家的合作機制，這樣的合作機制有可能反映的是包括在供應鏈的安全、包括在應處區域這些比較灰帶的騷擾或中共的軍事動態，就本局來講，我們當然有我們的管道在進行這方面的戰略溝通，不過可能不適合公開說明。"],["羅委員美玲：所以在高市早苗上任之後，臺灣其實有很多這方面的管道跟日本的新政府溝通，因為高市一再地強調所謂的「FOIP」，這也是2016年安倍所提出來「自由開放的印太區域」的構想。他也說臺灣其實可以創立準安全同盟，所以我們也認為他上任之後，是不是準安全同盟這個構想成形可能是指日可待，只是這樣子的一個同盟會不會造成東亞的新局面？他跟過去石破茂的態度其實是有一點不太一樣的，他處事的方式還有積極度來講的話，我想對東亞未來的局勢應該會有一定的影響。局長可能覺得這方面在這個時候不是那麼方便做說明嗎？還是怎麼樣？"],["蔡局長明彥：基本上我們講的這些政策發展方向都是對的，也都有在進行，我剛剛只是在說明有些在進行的實際狀況比較不適合公開討論。這種所謂的安全合作，現在的安全觀幾乎都是比較綜合性，所以我才會跟委員報告，這種綜合性安全觀之下的合作，有可能是包括經濟安全的、有可能是包括非傳統安全的、也有可能是針對傳統安全，軍事活動相關情資的交換或是戰略溝通的機制，這個部分都會透過各種管道跟方式來進行。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，好，了解，謝謝局長。","再來要提到的是，這兩天局長應該有注意到中國籍偷渡客在等待遣返期間，可能會造成國安疑慮的報導，我們在想現行的收容制度，對這個偷渡客，尤其是中國的偷渡客，是不是造成了很大的漏洞？以現行的制度，偷渡客被逮捕之後，移民署會移交到地檢署，然後進行司法的審理，之後就會進入到收容所。可是收容所收容的時間最長就是150天，我們也知道現在跟中國之間的遣返作業，其實也幾乎等於是停滯，所以他被收容了150天之後就轉為收容替代處分，也就是在收容替代處分這段期間，他其實是可以在臺灣趴趴走的。最近這兩天，我們看到報導說他來到臺灣再回去之後，突然間就把過去在臺灣收容替代處分期間，所拍攝到的一些影片上傳到YouTube，然後再跟大家說明是怎麼樣偷渡、路線是怎麼樣等等，讓人家覺得臺灣在這方面真的非常鬆散。","請教局長，國安單位有沒有要做檢討？現行的制度到底是不是存在一些風險，有沒有做過評估？因為這絕對不是單純的移民管理問題，他們是中國的偷渡客，之前檢察總長曾經提到，目前看到的中國偷渡客很多跟過去不太一樣，過去偷渡過來就是躲躲藏藏，可是現在不是，他等著你來抓他！他們都已經研究過了，沒關係，我就是等你們來抓我，然後進入到收容所之後，就等待空窗期到來，再開始蒐集情資。這是不是會造成很大的安全漏洞？這部分有沒有做檢討？有沒有討論？"],["蔡局長明彥：跟委員說明一下，這大概分為幾個部分：第一個部分當然是不要有偷渡客上岸，因為一上岸之後就會啟動入出國管理相關法規的處置程序……"],["羅委員美玲：當然。"],["蔡局長明彥：第二部分是針對這些偷渡客相關比較全面性的樣態，我們都有在分析，來自於哪個地方？他偷渡的、泅渡的工具是什麼？以及他個人的一些背景，我們會做一些交叉比對，來看有沒有一些基本的樣態，這是第二個部分；第三部分是針對個案的部分，每一個偷渡客可能有不同的狀況，我們會了解一下每一個個案實際的情形，他假如走完我們的法律程序之後，沒有辦法立刻遣送回中國，當然就會進入到委員所提到的替代收容階段，這部分就是他要定期每天到指定的警察機關報到。假如有比較特殊的案例，我們國安情報機關也會特別注意他們的動態有沒有侵犯到國安的疑慮。"],["羅委員美玲：本席是懷疑剛才局長講的都沒有落實。為什麼有些偷渡客可以到……你說每天都要去報到嘛！為什麼他有時間到小琉球去拍影片，他可以到處趴趴走？這個部分真的有在落實嗎？也許是空有法令，可是沒有實際上的執行，我想國安單位都要來檢討……"],["蔡局長明彥：好，我們來做……"],["羅委員美玲：再來是中國籍偷渡客的樣態真的跟過去不太一樣，所以我覺得這部分真的要重新檢討，他們真的不是一般的移民管理問題，跟一般的非法逃逸移工是不一樣的，針對這些對象，我們要如何加強管理，尤其是這些……反正他等著我們的檢調單位，等著警察、海巡，去拘捕，然後一副……跟過去真的很不一樣，這些都是很特殊、很特別的樣態，要特別的去留意。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員的提醒，我們也會持續地跟移民單位討論，畢竟業管單位在移民單位，在這些大陸偷渡客替代收容的階段，他的活動型態是不是該有更多的規範，這部分我們來跟移民單位討論。我特別強調的是，只要真的是有比較特殊或有問題，為違常、異常的個案，我們會有特殊的方式專案來處理。"],["羅委員美玲：這部分我可能會再找國安局來討論。"],["蔡局長明彥：好。"],["羅委員美玲：因為針對這個部分，我們覺得其實不是那麼單純，我們是不是太過於鬆散了？OK，好，以上，謝謝。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅美玲委員，蔡局長先請回。"],["主席（羅委員美玲代）：接下來有請陳俊宇委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-9","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","謝龍介","葉元之","賴士葆","郭昱晴","邱志偉","黃仁","沈伯洋","林憶君","陳冠廷"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局報告「近期東亞情勢變化對我國影響之研析」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00005"}}}