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{\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 625.697, \"end\": 625.838, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 625.838, \"end\": 625.998, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 625.998, \"end\": 626.138, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 626.138, \"end\": 626.458, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 626.458, \"end\": 626.578, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 626.578, \"end\": 626.878, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 626.878, \"end\": 627.038, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 627.038, \"end\": 627.198, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 627.198, \"end\": 627.398, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 627.398, \"end\": 627.578, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 627.578, \"end\": 627.759, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 627.759, \"end\": 627.839, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 627.839, \"end\": 627.979, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 627.979, \"end\": 628.139, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 628.139, \"end\": 628.359, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 628.359, \"end\": 628.599, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 628.599, \"end\": 629.019, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 629.019, \"end\": 629.039, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 629.039, \"end\": 629.139, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 629.139, \"end\": 629.159, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:06,784\n謝謝主席有請農業部部長陳部長那有請陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:16,644 --> 00:00:41,238\n部長早部長根據農業部的統計數字你看上面的數字2018年我們為了防範非洲豬瘟病毒進入台灣所以啟動了邊境的查驗到6天前大概的數字是這樣已經查到9511件的違規品但是很重要的其中有997件是測出豬瘟是陽性的這個百分比是10.5%\n\n3\n00:00:42,899 --> 00:00:46,805\n就是超過一成是帶有這個豬瘟病毒請問陳部長你認為這個比例高嗎\n\n4\n00:00:49,312 --> 00:01:13,769\n我第一個要說明這個數據的來源我們相關的這個違規的部分就是說我們在邊境的時候有勸導如果他帶有一些肉製品的話他要棄置到垃圾桶不是說他夾帶以後我們抽菸到的所以我們這個數據可以顯示說國外的這些肉製品他帶有的非洲豬瘟陽性特別是高風險區大概有10%部長您在說明那個類似\n\n5\n00:01:16,491 --> 00:01:33,411\n這個抽菸的母數啦齁但是豬瘟陽性的還是這個不管你要什麼對就是說從高風險區來的這些豬肉製品的確齁它呈現非洲豬瘟陽性的比例比較高謝謝部長說明但是我要強調就是說齁我覺得這個數字是高的齁\n\n6\n00:01:33,991 --> 00:01:55,588\n因為每天從中國或是東南亞的疫區疫區進來的貨物包裹數量非常龐大當然不可能密不通風這個我理解所以部長還是有可能有漏網之肉進入台灣那也有可能其中不管多少比例它是帶有豬瘟的病毒那如果吃到人體內沒有吃完還是可能進入廚餘系統我這樣子推論OK嗎\n\n7\n00:01:59,827 --> 00:02:20,933\n有這個可能對會進來嘛然後吃下去吃不完就變成廚餘那我麻煩那個彭部長您一起上台謝謝你那廚餘系統的運作雖然是由地方的這個清潔隊來分配到各個案場養豬場但是最近我看到新湖市一直在追蹤的廚餘來源可是廚餘來源跟這個疫情的起因其實關聯性還有待討論所以這個重點是說請問清潔隊有足夠的這個技術跟設備去辨識說廚餘內可不可能有\n\n8\n00:02:29,937 --> 00:02:30,909\n非洲豬瘟的病毒嗎\n\n9\n00:02:31,884 --> 00:02:46,670\n他不可能嘛我要跟委員說明這個必須要去強調喔廚餘本身它可能含有不同的一些包括危險包括病毒的部分但是我們進到廚餘養豬一定要落實徵主這個一定要強調我就是我們講重點就不是在新疆的分配或是廚餘來源嘛就是在這個高溫這個徵主這個是重點那麼既然高溫徵主的條件是決定感染力的這個關鍵那我現在請教兩位部長喔\n\n10\n00:03:00,475 --> 00:03:04,739\n那為什麼全台灣共同爭主的場合目前只有一家\n\n11\n00:03:05,973 --> 00:03:30,868\n共同徵組一家在苗栗為什麼只有一家呢我要跟委員報告這是兩件事情就是目前有434家的廚藝養豬的這些廠它這些廠大部分都是自己徵組大部分都自己徵組那有一些希望說能夠共同徵組現在總共有四個縣市九個案子在申請共同徵組那現在營運的就是苗栗縣的一家\n\n12\n00:03:32,048 --> 00:03:57,214\n謝謝部長的說明等一下我們稍微討論一下因為你如果讓他各自為政各自去做那你又要集合又有這個上傳不完整那這些都很耗費的人士那如果是共同爭主有一個做法也許是更有效率的但是對於我再提到就是說對於要不要禁止廚藝剛剛陳鵬部長有稍微報告一下未來的可能做法但是中央跟地方現在目前好像看法不一樣\n\n13\n00:03:58,914 --> 00:04:13,443\n所以中央就有責任來做解決嘛到底是說要落實這個廚餘的爭取的步驟呢還是說未來想要禁止廚餘呢這個方向剛剛彭部長簡單講了一下那有更清楚的方向嗎我想齁\n\n14\n00:04:15,406 --> 00:04:42,507\n廚餘本身以農業部過去對於廚餘養豬的立場我們都是一致的我們就是持續的輔導這些廚餘養豬場能夠轉為飼料這是我們的一直以來的立場從過去大概107、108年的2000多場到現在434場就是說部長不反對就是使用廚餘啦對但是廚餘本身我一直強調廚餘本身你如果落實它的一個徵足我們了解它就是一個很好的一個料源\n\n15\n00:04:43,327 --> 00:05:07,946\n對要飼料化的一個過程非常重要那我再請教當然剛剛已經報告了就是台中市政府這次相關單位有點施責的問題因為沒有去監督我們目前不能說台中市政府有施責或沒施責我們的疫調本身最重要的是追查我們的來源疫調的過程裡面最後疫調報告出來才會去看有哪一些破口那個是後續的責任\n\n16\n00:05:09,207 --> 00:05:26,066\n我再請問彭部長那過去沒有確實上傳的你有沒有罰則到底有沒有因為有一次在爭論包委員是有的他會違反廢棄法好那我現在重點就是說那過去未來當然一定會加緊這個加長這個集合或甚至罰則那已經過去了就算了嗎\n\n17\n00:05:27,026 --> 00:05:47,515\n包委員他其實就會再追溯去處罰嗎重點是在集合因為如果集合的話那個養豬的珍珠場的這個他就會積極去處理所以目前的重點是在這個集合讓他們都知道這是有罰則的那陳部長25日你接受採訪的時候表達除於是共同珍珠是環境部跟農業部共同負擔\n\n18\n00:05:48,115 --> 00:06:08,596\n因為現在這個就是責任權責就是稍微要釐清一下但是我們也有看到這個環管署副署長對於權責劃分有不太一樣的說法當然他是把責任攬到自己身上他認為設立共同徵主的這個場是農業部的責任所以到底徵主場的設立是農業部還是環境部的責任呢\n\n19\n00:06:09,216 --> 00:06:35,265\n我想一個珍珠廠他要興建第一個他的用地要取得要合法那用地的合法就是農業部的部分然後他本身的一些興辦事業因為他要用來做廚餘養豬的時候那興辦事業我們會經過農業部的審視是不是有這個必要那至於說後面的相關興建以後的這些環境衛生的污染是不是有防範\n\n20\n00:06:36,705 --> 00:06:48,891\n那廚餘的處理就是你要接手囉環境部要接手囉就是我們的廚餘處理的再利用這個接手的問題這個就是很我想我們跟環境部我覺得我們的分工跟合作是絕對是沒問題的沒有說這是誰的部位\n\n21\n00:06:52,532 --> 00:07:10,783\n713年度的資料就是全台灣大概有42.8的加護魚儲剛剛你也報告相當高的數字養賴飼料化來消化掉這是很大宗的處理方式那如果環境部有信心讓其他的去化管道剛剛你也稍微提了一下來消化大量的廚餘那麼中央就可以有更彈性的做法\n\n22\n00:07:11,764 --> 00:07:38,638\n那目前台灣是大概還沒有辦法完全不用廚餘來養豬啦那偏偏這次在廚餘的爭主系統當中這個爭主又是最重要的關鍵所以最重要的是你們的政策未來到底要繼續目前就使用廚餘然後加強集合然後等等還是說未來是往使用非廚餘不使用廚餘的方向走呢就是我可不可以先知道你們的規劃的方向我想我剛才講得非常清楚我們現在政策\n\n23\n00:07:40,390 --> 00:07:57,453\n我們一直持續輔導除以養豬場轉型然後因為在這個階段防疫是最優先的但是在防疫的過程中我們也看到了一些問題所以這些問題我們會滾動的檢討會在這個疫情比較能夠確認告一段落以後\n\n24\n00:07:58,533 --> 00:08:09,919\n從2018我們啟動這些事情以後其實7年了除於政策轉型還是說共同爭主的建設期其實都7年了我們從2000多場降到434場那我們剛剛也討論了共同爭主的有一些優點嘛\n\n25\n00:08:16,042 --> 00:08:42,593\n然後再做分配然後你不要各個去讓他們各自為政最後我要請教一個非常重要的問題昨天的記者會那個疫情指揮中心的疫情會指出有一個化智三連單數字是有異常的就三連單本來是同時開出的那請問甲連跟丙連的數字他說不一樣請問這個數字差了什麼呢因為甲連是由司機來說乙連也是由司機來說但司機是把他送到這個化智廠\n\n26\n00:08:43,934 --> 00:09:01,502\n那這個乙聯最後是會留在最後的官方的數字那丙聯就留在豬農這邊那個三個數字不一樣是很嚴重的事情那請問甲跟丙差多少那乙聯到底是跟甲一樣還是跟丙不一樣還是三個都不一樣\n\n27\n00:09:02,622 --> 00:09:22,937\n這個很嚴重的事情我覺得委員說得非常正確三年單是要一致的但是我們發現說三年單的數字不一致三年單裡面分給豬農給化製廠還有給司機以後轉交給可能地方政府最後是官方數字的依據對這三個不一樣的時候就應該去釐清我可以知道部長哪一個現在比較像嗎\n\n28\n00:09:24,438 --> 00:09:40,314\n給官方的東西乙聯到底現在是跟甲比較像我現在因為在整個疫調有不同的單據那不同單據有不同的樣態所以這個部分我們都會更清楚的釐清這個很關鍵這涉及這個我了解我想我們疫調有後面的專家會議在討論那有一些\n\n29\n00:09:43,517 --> 00:10:11,150\n像您刚才说的这个就必须厘清因为这牵涉到死亡的支数那死亡支数是不是有流向所以这个是一个非常严肃的一个问题非常严肃的问题所以昨天这个指挥中心有报出来嘛所以这个这个以莲还有在做以莲听说啦所以自己有做一些修改修改不是恶意的而是说他可能有增加一些租资的数目这个不可能说不可能用手改嘛不可能说他写错改的因为三年单本身要一致性\n\n30\n00:10:11,650 --> 00:10:29,159\n可是現在就說不一致所以我說我們在這疫調的一些疑點我們必須要再去釐清那請部長這邊就是兩位都趕快去我們絕對我們非常關注這個疫情本身的疫調的一些資訊三年單的真相非常重要了解我知道那我們就等待這個資料出來非常謝謝謝謝委員的關心謝謝兩位部長謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t6784\t謝謝主席有請農業部部長陳部長那有請陳部長\n16644\t41238\t部長早部長根據農業部的統計數字你看上面的數字2018年我們為了防範非洲豬瘟病毒進入台灣所以啟動了邊境的查驗到6天前大概的數字是這樣已經查到9511件的違規品但是很重要的其中有997件是測出豬瘟是陽性的這個百分比是10.5%\n42899\t46805\t就是超過一成是帶有這個豬瘟病毒請問陳部長你認為這個比例高嗎\n49312\t73769\t我第一個要說明這個數據的來源我們相關的這個違規的部分就是說我們在邊境的時候有勸導如果他帶有一些肉製品的話他要棄置到垃圾桶不是說他夾帶以後我們抽菸到的所以我們這個數據可以顯示說國外的這些肉製品他帶有的非洲豬瘟陽性特別是高風險區大概有10%部長您在說明那個類似\n76491\t93411\t這個抽菸的母數啦齁但是豬瘟陽性的還是這個不管你要什麼對就是說從高風險區來的這些豬肉製品的確齁它呈現非洲豬瘟陽性的比例比較高謝謝部長說明但是我要強調就是說齁我覺得這個數字是高的齁\n93991\t115588\t因為每天從中國或是東南亞的疫區疫區進來的貨物包裹數量非常龐大當然不可能密不通風 這個我理解所以部長還是有可能有漏網之肉進入台灣 那也有可能其中不管多少比例它是帶有豬瘟的病毒那如果吃到人體內沒有吃完還是可能進入廚餘系統我這樣子推論OK嗎\n119827\t140933\t有這個可能 對 會進來嘛 然後吃下去 吃不完就變成廚餘那我麻煩那個彭部長您一起上台 謝謝你那廚餘系統的運作雖然是由地方的這個清潔隊來分配到各個案場養豬場但是最近我看到新湖市一直在追蹤的廚餘來源 可是廚餘來源跟這個疫情的起因其實關聯性還有待討論所以這個重點是說請問清潔隊有足夠的這個技術跟設備去辨識說廚餘內可不可能有\n149937\t150909\t非洲豬瘟的病毒嗎\n151884\t166670\t他不可能嘛我要跟委員說明這個必須要去強調喔廚餘本身它可能含有不同的一些包括危險包括病毒的部分但是我們進到廚餘養豬一定要落實徵主這個一定要強調我就是我們講重點就不是在新疆的分配或是廚餘來源嘛就是在這個高溫這個徵主這個是重點那麼既然高溫徵主的條件是決定感染力的這個關鍵那我現在請教兩位部長喔\n180475\t184739\t那為什麼全台灣共同爭主的場合目前只有一家\n185973\t210868\t共同徵組一家在苗栗為什麼只有一家呢我要跟委員報告這是兩件事情就是目前有434家的廚藝養豬的這些廠它這些廠大部分都是自己徵組大部分都自己徵組那有一些希望說能夠共同徵組現在總共有四個縣市九個案子在申請共同徵組那現在營運的就是苗栗縣的一家\n212048\t237214\t謝謝部長的說明等一下我們稍微討論一下因為你如果讓他各自為政 各自去做那你又要集合 又有這個上傳不完整那這些都很耗費的人士那如果是共同爭主有一個做法也許是更有效率的但是對於 我再提到就是說對於要不要禁止廚藝剛剛陳鵬部長有稍微報告一下未來的可能做法但是中央跟地方現在目前好像看法不一樣\n238914\t253443\t所以中央就有責任來做解決嘛到底是說要落實這個廚餘的爭取的步驟呢還是說未來想要禁止廚餘呢這個方向剛剛彭部長簡單講了一下那有更清楚的方向嗎我想齁\n255406\t282507\t廚餘本身以農業部過去對於廚餘養豬的立場我們都是一致的我們就是持續的輔導這些廚餘養豬場能夠轉為飼料這是我們的一直以來的立場從過去大概107、108年的2000多場到現在434場就是說部長不反對就是使用廚餘啦對 但是廚餘本身我一直強調廚餘本身你如果落實它的一個徵足我們了解它就是一個很好的一個料源\n283327\t307946\t對 要飼料化的一個過程非常重要那我再請教 當然剛剛已經報告了就是台中市政府這次相關單位有點施責的問題因為沒有去監督我們目前不能說台中市政府有施責或沒施責我們的疫調本身最重要的是追查我們的來源疫調的過程裡面 最後疫調報告出來才會去看有哪一些破口 那個是後續的責任\n309207\t326066\t我再請問彭部長那過去沒有確實上傳的你有沒有罰則 到底有沒有因為有一次在爭論包委員是有的 他會違反廢棄法好 那我現在重點就是說那過去 未來當然一定會加緊這個加長這個集合或甚至罰則那已經過去了就算了嗎\n327026\t347515\t包委員他其實就會再追溯去處罰嗎重點是在集合因為如果集合的話那個養豬的珍珠場的這個他就會積極去處理所以目前的重點是在這個集合讓他們都知道這是有罰則的那陳部長25日你接受採訪的時候表達除於是共同珍珠是環境部跟農業部共同負擔\n348115\t368596\t因為現在這個就是責任權責就是稍微要釐清一下但是我們也有看到這個環管署副署長對於權責劃分有不太一樣的說法當然他是把責任攬到自己身上他認為設立共同徵主的這個場是農業部的責任所以到底徵主場的設立是農業部還是環境部的責任呢\n369216\t395265\t我想一個珍珠廠他要興建第一個他的用地要取得要合法那用地的合法就是農業部的部分然後他本身的一些興辦事業因為他要用來做廚餘養豬的時候那興辦事業我們會經過農業部的審視是不是有這個必要那至於說後面的相關興建以後的這些環境衛生的污染是不是有防範\n396705\t408891\t那廚餘的處理就是你要接手囉 環境部要接手囉就是我們的廚餘處理的再利用這個接手的問題 這個就是很我想我們跟環境部我覺得我們的分工跟合作是絕對是沒問題的沒有說這是誰的部位\n412532\t430783\t713年度的資料就是全台灣大概有42.8的加護魚儲剛剛你也報告相當高的數字養賴飼料化來消化掉這是很大宗的處理方式那如果環境部有信心讓其他的去化管道剛剛你也稍微提了一下來消化大量的廚餘那麼中央就可以有更彈性的做法\n431764\t458638\t那目前台灣是大概還沒有辦法完全不用廚餘來養豬啦那偏偏這次在廚餘的爭主系統當中這個爭主又是最重要的關鍵所以最重要的是你們的政策未來到底要繼續目前就使用廚餘然後加強集合然後等等還是說未來是往使用非廚餘不使用廚餘的方向走呢就是我可不可以先知道你們的規劃的方向我想我剛才講得非常清楚我們現在政策\n460390\t477453\t我們一直持續輔導除以養豬場轉型然後因為在這個階段防疫是最優先的但是在防疫的過程中我們也看到了一些問題所以這些問題我們會滾動的檢討會在這個疫情比較能夠確認告一段落以後\n478533\t489919\t從2018我們啟動這些事情以後其實7年了 除於政策轉型還是說共同爭主的建設期其實都7年了我們從2000多場降到434場那我們剛剛也討論了共同爭主的有一些優點嘛\n496042\t522593\t然後再做分配然後你不要各個去讓他們各自為政最後我要請教一個非常重要的問題昨天的記者會那個疫情指揮中心的疫情會指出有一個化智三連單數字是有異常的就三連單本來是同時開出的那請問甲連跟丙連的數字他說不一樣請問這個數字差了什麼呢因為甲連是由司機來說乙連也是由司機來說但司機是把他送到這個化智廠\n523934\t541502\t那這個乙聯最後是會留在最後的官方的數字那丙聯就留在豬農這邊那個三個數字不一樣是很嚴重的事情那請問甲跟丙差多少那乙聯到底是跟甲一樣還是跟丙不一樣還是三個都不一樣\n542622\t562937\t這個很嚴重的事情我覺得委員說得非常正確三年單是要一致的但是我們發現說三年單的數字不一致三年單裡面分給豬農 給化製廠還有給司機以後轉交給可能地方政府最後是官方數字的依據對 這三個不一樣的時候就應該去釐清我可以知道部長哪一個現在比較像嗎\n564438\t580314\t給官方的東西 乙聯到底現在是跟甲比較像我現在因為在整個疫調有不同的單據那不同單據有不同的樣態所以這個部分我們都會更清楚的釐清這個很關鍵 這涉及這個我了解 我想我們疫調有後面的專家會議在討論那有一些\n583517\t611150\t像您刚才说的这个就必须厘清因为这牵涉到死亡的支数那死亡支数是不是有流向所以这个是一个非常严肃的一个问题非常严肃的问题所以昨天这个指挥中心有报出来嘛所以这个这个以莲还有在做以莲听说啦所以自己有做一些修改修改不是恶意的而是说他可能有增加一些租资的数目这个不可能说不可能用手改嘛不可能说他写错改的因为三年单本身要一致性\n611650\t629159\t可是現在就說不一致所以我說我們在這疫調的一些疑點我們必須要再去釐清那請部長這邊就是兩位都趕快去我們絕對 我們非常關注這個疫情本身的疫調的一些資訊三年單的真相非常重要了解 我知道那我們就等待這個資料出來非常謝謝 謝謝委員的關心謝謝兩位部長 謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請農業部部長陳部長那有請陳部長\n部長早部長根據農業部的統計數字你看上面的數字2018年我們為了防範非洲豬瘟病毒進入台灣所以啟動了邊境的查驗到6天前大概的數字是這樣已經查到9511件的違規品但是很重要的其中有997件是測出豬瘟是陽性的這個百分比是10.5%\n就是超過一成是帶有這個豬瘟病毒請問陳部長你認為這個比例高嗎\n我第一個要說明這個數據的來源我們相關的這個違規的部分就是說我們在邊境的時候有勸導如果他帶有一些肉製品的話他要棄置到垃圾桶不是說他夾帶以後我們抽菸到的所以我們這個數據可以顯示說國外的這些肉製品他帶有的非洲豬瘟陽性特別是高風險區大概有10%部長您在說明那個類似\n這個抽菸的母數啦齁但是豬瘟陽性的還是這個不管你要什麼對就是說從高風險區來的這些豬肉製品的確齁它呈現非洲豬瘟陽性的比例比較高謝謝部長說明但是我要強調就是說齁我覺得這個數字是高的齁\n因為每天從中國或是東南亞的疫區疫區進來的貨物包裹數量非常龐大當然不可能密不通風 這個我理解所以部長還是有可能有漏網之肉進入台灣 那也有可能其中不管多少比例它是帶有豬瘟的病毒那如果吃到人體內沒有吃完還是可能進入廚餘系統我這樣子推論OK嗎\n有這個可能 對 會進來嘛 然後吃下去 吃不完就變成廚餘那我麻煩那個彭部長您一起上台 謝謝你那廚餘系統的運作雖然是由地方的這個清潔隊來分配到各個案場養豬場但是最近我看到新湖市一直在追蹤的廚餘來源 可是廚餘來源跟這個疫情的起因其實關聯性還有待討論所以這個重點是說請問清潔隊有足夠的這個技術跟設備去辨識說廚餘內可不可能有\n非洲豬瘟的病毒嗎\n他不可能嘛我要跟委員說明這個必須要去強調喔廚餘本身它可能含有不同的一些包括危險包括病毒的部分但是我們進到廚餘養豬一定要落實徵主這個一定要強調我就是我們講重點就不是在新疆的分配或是廚餘來源嘛就是在這個高溫這個徵主這個是重點那麼既然高溫徵主的條件是決定感染力的這個關鍵那我現在請教兩位部長喔\n那為什麼全台灣共同爭主的場合目前只有一家\n共同徵組一家在苗栗為什麼只有一家呢我要跟委員報告這是兩件事情就是目前有434家的廚藝養豬的這些廠它這些廠大部分都是自己徵組大部分都自己徵組那有一些希望說能夠共同徵組現在總共有四個縣市九個案子在申請共同徵組那現在營運的就是苗栗縣的一家\n謝謝部長的說明等一下我們稍微討論一下因為你如果讓他各自為政 各自去做那你又要集合 又有這個上傳不完整那這些都很耗費的人士那如果是共同爭主有一個做法也許是更有效率的但是對於 我再提到就是說對於要不要禁止廚藝剛剛陳鵬部長有稍微報告一下未來的可能做法但是中央跟地方現在目前好像看法不一樣\n所以中央就有責任來做解決嘛到底是說要落實這個廚餘的爭取的步驟呢還是說未來想要禁止廚餘呢這個方向剛剛彭部長簡單講了一下那有更清楚的方向嗎我想齁\n廚餘本身以農業部過去對於廚餘養豬的立場我們都是一致的我們就是持續的輔導這些廚餘養豬場能夠轉為飼料這是我們的一直以來的立場從過去大概107、108年的2000多場到現在434場就是說部長不反對就是使用廚餘啦對 但是廚餘本身我一直強調廚餘本身你如果落實它的一個徵足我們了解它就是一個很好的一個料源\n對 要飼料化的一個過程非常重要那我再請教 當然剛剛已經報告了就是台中市政府這次相關單位有點施責的問題因為沒有去監督我們目前不能說台中市政府有施責或沒施責我們的疫調本身最重要的是追查我們的來源疫調的過程裡面 最後疫調報告出來才會去看有哪一些破口 那個是後續的責任\n我再請問彭部長那過去沒有確實上傳的你有沒有罰則 到底有沒有因為有一次在爭論包委員是有的 他會違反廢棄法好 那我現在重點就是說那過去 未來當然一定會加緊這個加長這個集合或甚至罰則那已經過去了就算了嗎\n包委員他其實就會再追溯去處罰嗎重點是在集合因為如果集合的話那個養豬的珍珠場的這個他就會積極去處理所以目前的重點是在這個集合讓他們都知道這是有罰則的那陳部長25日你接受採訪的時候表達除於是共同珍珠是環境部跟農業部共同負擔\n因為現在這個就是責任權責就是稍微要釐清一下但是我們也有看到這個環管署副署長對於權責劃分有不太一樣的說法當然他是把責任攬到自己身上他認為設立共同徵主的這個場是農業部的責任所以到底徵主場的設立是農業部還是環境部的責任呢\n我想一個珍珠廠他要興建第一個他的用地要取得要合法那用地的合法就是農業部的部分然後他本身的一些興辦事業因為他要用來做廚餘養豬的時候那興辦事業我們會經過農業部的審視是不是有這個必要那至於說後面的相關興建以後的這些環境衛生的污染是不是有防範\n那廚餘的處理就是你要接手囉 環境部要接手囉就是我們的廚餘處理的再利用這個接手的問題 這個就是很我想我們跟環境部我覺得我們的分工跟合作是絕對是沒問題的沒有說這是誰的部位\n713年度的資料就是全台灣大概有42.8的加護魚儲剛剛你也報告相當高的數字養賴飼料化來消化掉這是很大宗的處理方式那如果環境部有信心讓其他的去化管道剛剛你也稍微提了一下來消化大量的廚餘那麼中央就可以有更彈性的做法\n那目前台灣是大概還沒有辦法完全不用廚餘來養豬啦那偏偏這次在廚餘的爭主系統當中這個爭主又是最重要的關鍵所以最重要的是你們的政策未來到底要繼續目前就使用廚餘然後加強集合然後等等還是說未來是往使用非廚餘不使用廚餘的方向走呢就是我可不可以先知道你們的規劃的方向我想我剛才講得非常清楚我們現在政策\n我們一直持續輔導除以養豬場轉型然後因為在這個階段防疫是最優先的但是在防疫的過程中我們也看到了一些問題所以這些問題我們會滾動的檢討會在這個疫情比較能夠確認告一段落以後\n從2018我們啟動這些事情以後其實7年了 除於政策轉型還是說共同爭主的建設期其實都7年了我們從2000多場降到434場那我們剛剛也討論了共同爭主的有一些優點嘛\n然後再做分配然後你不要各個去讓他們各自為政最後我要請教一個非常重要的問題昨天的記者會那個疫情指揮中心的疫情會指出有一個化智三連單數字是有異常的就三連單本來是同時開出的那請問甲連跟丙連的數字他說不一樣請問這個數字差了什麼呢因為甲連是由司機來說乙連也是由司機來說但司機是把他送到這個化智廠\n那這個乙聯最後是會留在最後的官方的數字那丙聯就留在豬農這邊那個三個數字不一樣是很嚴重的事情那請問甲跟丙差多少那乙聯到底是跟甲一樣還是跟丙不一樣還是三個都不一樣\n這個很嚴重的事情我覺得委員說得非常正確三年單是要一致的但是我們發現說三年單的數字不一致三年單裡面分給豬農 給化製廠還有給司機以後轉交給可能地方政府最後是官方數字的依據對 這三個不一樣的時候就應該去釐清我可以知道部長哪一個現在比較像嗎\n給官方的東西 乙聯到底現在是跟甲比較像我現在因為在整個疫調有不同的單據那不同單據有不同的樣態所以這個部分我們都會更清楚的釐清這個很關鍵 這涉及這個我了解 我想我們疫調有後面的專家會議在討論那有一些\n像您刚才说的这个就必须厘清因为这牵涉到死亡的支数那死亡支数是不是有流向所以这个是一个非常严肃的一个问题非常严肃的问题所以昨天这个指挥中心有报出来嘛所以这个这个以莲还有在做以莲听说啦所以自己有做一些修改修改不是恶意的而是说他可能有增加一些租资的数目这个不可能说不可能用手改嘛不可能说他写错改的因为三年单本身要一致性\n可是現在就說不一致所以我說我們在這疫調的一些疑點我們必須要再去釐清那請部長這邊就是兩位都趕快去我們絕對 我們非常關注這個疫情本身的疫調的一些資訊三年單的真相非常重要了解 我知道那我們就等待這個資料出來非常謝謝 謝謝委員的關心謝謝兩位部長 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:06.784\n謝謝主席有請農業部部長陳部長那有請陳部長\n\n00:16.644 --> 00:41.238\n部長早部長根據農業部的統計數字你看上面的數字2018年我們為了防範非洲豬瘟病毒進入台灣所以啟動了邊境的查驗到6天前大概的數字是這樣已經查到9511件的違規品但是很重要的其中有997件是測出豬瘟是陽性的這個百分比是10.5%\n\n00:42.899 --> 00:46.805\n就是超過一成是帶有這個豬瘟病毒請問陳部長你認為這個比例高嗎\n\n00:49.312 --> 01:13.769\n我第一個要說明這個數據的來源我們相關的這個違規的部分就是說我們在邊境的時候有勸導如果他帶有一些肉製品的話他要棄置到垃圾桶不是說他夾帶以後我們抽菸到的所以我們這個數據可以顯示說國外的這些肉製品他帶有的非洲豬瘟陽性特別是高風險區大概有10%部長您在說明那個類似\n\n01:16.491 --> 01:33.411\n這個抽菸的母數啦齁但是豬瘟陽性的還是這個不管你要什麼對就是說從高風險區來的這些豬肉製品的確齁它呈現非洲豬瘟陽性的比例比較高謝謝部長說明但是我要強調就是說齁我覺得這個數字是高的齁\n\n01:33.991 --> 01:55.588\n因為每天從中國或是東南亞的疫區疫區進來的貨物包裹數量非常龐大當然不可能密不通風這個我理解所以部長還是有可能有漏網之肉進入台灣那也有可能其中不管多少比例它是帶有豬瘟的病毒那如果吃到人體內沒有吃完還是可能進入廚餘系統我這樣子推論OK嗎\n\n01:59.827 --> 02:20.933\n有這個可能對會進來嘛然後吃下去吃不完就變成廚餘那我麻煩那個彭部長您一起上台謝謝你那廚餘系統的運作雖然是由地方的這個清潔隊來分配到各個案場養豬場但是最近我看到新湖市一直在追蹤的廚餘來源可是廚餘來源跟這個疫情的起因其實關聯性還有待討論所以這個重點是說請問清潔隊有足夠的這個技術跟設備去辨識說廚餘內可不可能有\n\n02:29.937 --> 02:30.909\n非洲豬瘟的病毒嗎\n\n02:31.884 --> 02:46.670\n他不可能嘛我要跟委員說明這個必須要去強調喔廚餘本身它可能含有不同的一些包括危險包括病毒的部分但是我們進到廚餘養豬一定要落實徵主這個一定要強調我就是我們講重點就不是在新疆的分配或是廚餘來源嘛就是在這個高溫這個徵主這個是重點那麼既然高溫徵主的條件是決定感染力的這個關鍵那我現在請教兩位部長喔\n\n03:00.475 --> 03:04.739\n那為什麼全台灣共同爭主的場合目前只有一家\n\n03:05.973 --> 03:30.868\n共同徵組一家在苗栗為什麼只有一家呢我要跟委員報告這是兩件事情就是目前有434家的廚藝養豬的這些廠它這些廠大部分都是自己徵組大部分都自己徵組那有一些希望說能夠共同徵組現在總共有四個縣市九個案子在申請共同徵組那現在營運的就是苗栗縣的一家\n\n03:32.048 --> 03:57.214\n謝謝部長的說明等一下我們稍微討論一下因為你如果讓他各自為政各自去做那你又要集合又有這個上傳不完整那這些都很耗費的人士那如果是共同爭主有一個做法也許是更有效率的但是對於我再提到就是說對於要不要禁止廚藝剛剛陳鵬部長有稍微報告一下未來的可能做法但是中央跟地方現在目前好像看法不一樣\n\n03:58.914 --> 04:13.443\n所以中央就有責任來做解決嘛到底是說要落實這個廚餘的爭取的步驟呢還是說未來想要禁止廚餘呢這個方向剛剛彭部長簡單講了一下那有更清楚的方向嗎我想齁\n\n04:15.406 --> 04:42.507\n廚餘本身以農業部過去對於廚餘養豬的立場我們都是一致的我們就是持續的輔導這些廚餘養豬場能夠轉為飼料這是我們的一直以來的立場從過去大概107、108年的2000多場到現在434場就是說部長不反對就是使用廚餘啦對但是廚餘本身我一直強調廚餘本身你如果落實它的一個徵足我們了解它就是一個很好的一個料源\n\n04:43.327 --> 05:07.946\n對要飼料化的一個過程非常重要那我再請教當然剛剛已經報告了就是台中市政府這次相關單位有點施責的問題因為沒有去監督我們目前不能說台中市政府有施責或沒施責我們的疫調本身最重要的是追查我們的來源疫調的過程裡面最後疫調報告出來才會去看有哪一些破口那個是後續的責任\n\n05:09.207 --> 05:26.066\n我再請問彭部長那過去沒有確實上傳的你有沒有罰則到底有沒有因為有一次在爭論包委員是有的他會違反廢棄法好那我現在重點就是說那過去未來當然一定會加緊這個加長這個集合或甚至罰則那已經過去了就算了嗎\n\n05:27.026 --> 05:47.515\n包委員他其實就會再追溯去處罰嗎重點是在集合因為如果集合的話那個養豬的珍珠場的這個他就會積極去處理所以目前的重點是在這個集合讓他們都知道這是有罰則的那陳部長25日你接受採訪的時候表達除於是共同珍珠是環境部跟農業部共同負擔\n\n05:48.115 --> 06:08.596\n因為現在這個就是責任權責就是稍微要釐清一下但是我們也有看到這個環管署副署長對於權責劃分有不太一樣的說法當然他是把責任攬到自己身上他認為設立共同徵主的這個場是農業部的責任所以到底徵主場的設立是農業部還是環境部的責任呢\n\n06:09.216 --> 06:35.265\n我想一個珍珠廠他要興建第一個他的用地要取得要合法那用地的合法就是農業部的部分然後他本身的一些興辦事業因為他要用來做廚餘養豬的時候那興辦事業我們會經過農業部的審視是不是有這個必要那至於說後面的相關興建以後的這些環境衛生的污染是不是有防範\n\n06:36.705 --> 06:48.891\n那廚餘的處理就是你要接手囉環境部要接手囉就是我們的廚餘處理的再利用這個接手的問題這個就是很我想我們跟環境部我覺得我們的分工跟合作是絕對是沒問題的沒有說這是誰的部位\n\n06:52.532 --> 07:10.783\n713年度的資料就是全台灣大概有42.8的加護魚儲剛剛你也報告相當高的數字養賴飼料化來消化掉這是很大宗的處理方式那如果環境部有信心讓其他的去化管道剛剛你也稍微提了一下來消化大量的廚餘那麼中央就可以有更彈性的做法\n\n07:11.764 --> 07:38.638\n那目前台灣是大概還沒有辦法完全不用廚餘來養豬啦那偏偏這次在廚餘的爭主系統當中這個爭主又是最重要的關鍵所以最重要的是你們的政策未來到底要繼續目前就使用廚餘然後加強集合然後等等還是說未來是往使用非廚餘不使用廚餘的方向走呢就是我可不可以先知道你們的規劃的方向我想我剛才講得非常清楚我們現在政策\n\n07:40.390 --> 07:57.453\n我們一直持續輔導除以養豬場轉型然後因為在這個階段防疫是最優先的但是在防疫的過程中我們也看到了一些問題所以這些問題我們會滾動的檢討會在這個疫情比較能夠確認告一段落以後\n\n07:58.533 --> 08:09.919\n從2018我們啟動這些事情以後其實7年了除於政策轉型還是說共同爭主的建設期其實都7年了我們從2000多場降到434場那我們剛剛也討論了共同爭主的有一些優點嘛\n\n08:16.042 --> 08:42.593\n然後再做分配然後你不要各個去讓他們各自為政最後我要請教一個非常重要的問題昨天的記者會那個疫情指揮中心的疫情會指出有一個化智三連單數字是有異常的就三連單本來是同時開出的那請問甲連跟丙連的數字他說不一樣請問這個數字差了什麼呢因為甲連是由司機來說乙連也是由司機來說但司機是把他送到這個化智廠\n\n08:43.934 --> 09:01.502\n那這個乙聯最後是會留在最後的官方的數字那丙聯就留在豬農這邊那個三個數字不一樣是很嚴重的事情那請問甲跟丙差多少那乙聯到底是跟甲一樣還是跟丙不一樣還是三個都不一樣\n\n09:02.622 --> 09:22.937\n這個很嚴重的事情我覺得委員說得非常正確三年單是要一致的但是我們發現說三年單的數字不一致三年單裡面分給豬農給化製廠還有給司機以後轉交給可能地方政府最後是官方數字的依據對這三個不一樣的時候就應該去釐清我可以知道部長哪一個現在比較像嗎\n\n09:24.438 --> 09:40.314\n給官方的東西乙聯到底現在是跟甲比較像我現在因為在整個疫調有不同的單據那不同單據有不同的樣態所以這個部分我們都會更清楚的釐清這個很關鍵這涉及這個我了解我想我們疫調有後面的專家會議在討論那有一些\n\n09:43.517 --> 10:11.150\n像您刚才说的这个就必须厘清因为这牵涉到死亡的支数那死亡支数是不是有流向所以这个是一个非常严肃的一个问题非常严肃的问题所以昨天这个指挥中心有报出来嘛所以这个这个以莲还有在做以莲听说啦所以自己有做一些修改修改不是恶意的而是说他可能有增加一些租资的数目这个不可能说不可能用手改嘛不可能说他写错改的因为三年单本身要一致性\n\n10:11.650 --> 10:29.159\n可是現在就說不一致所以我說我們在這疫調的一些疑點我們必須要再去釐清那請部長這邊就是兩位都趕快去我們絕對我們非常關注這個疫情本身的疫調的一些資訊三年單的真相非常重要了解我知道那我們就等待這個資料出來非常謝謝謝謝委員的關心謝謝兩位部長謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":6.784,"text":"謝謝主席有請農業部部長陳部長那有請陳部長"},{"start":16.644,"end":41.238,"text":"部長早部長根據農業部的統計數字你看上面的數字2018年我們為了防範非洲豬瘟病毒進入台灣所以啟動了邊境的查驗到6天前大概的數字是這樣已經查到9511件的違規品但是很重要的其中有997件是測出豬瘟是陽性的這個百分比是10.5%"},{"start":42.899,"end":46.805,"text":"就是超過一成是帶有這個豬瘟病毒請問陳部長你認為這個比例高嗎"},{"start":49.312,"end":73.769,"text":"我第一個要說明這個數據的來源我們相關的這個違規的部分就是說我們在邊境的時候有勸導如果他帶有一些肉製品的話他要棄置到垃圾桶不是說他夾帶以後我們抽菸到的所以我們這個數據可以顯示說國外的這些肉製品他帶有的非洲豬瘟陽性特別是高風險區大概有10%部長您在說明那個類似"},{"start":76.491,"end":93.411,"text":"這個抽菸的母數啦齁但是豬瘟陽性的還是這個不管你要什麼對就是說從高風險區來的這些豬肉製品的確齁它呈現非洲豬瘟陽性的比例比較高謝謝部長說明但是我要強調就是說齁我覺得這個數字是高的齁"},{"start":93.991,"end":115.588,"text":"因為每天從中國或是東南亞的疫區疫區進來的貨物包裹數量非常龐大當然不可能密不通風 這個我理解所以部長還是有可能有漏網之肉進入台灣 那也有可能其中不管多少比例它是帶有豬瘟的病毒那如果吃到人體內沒有吃完還是可能進入廚餘系統我這樣子推論OK嗎"},{"start":119.827,"end":140.933,"text":"有這個可能 對 會進來嘛 然後吃下去 吃不完就變成廚餘那我麻煩那個彭部長您一起上台 謝謝你那廚餘系統的運作雖然是由地方的這個清潔隊來分配到各個案場養豬場但是最近我看到新湖市一直在追蹤的廚餘來源 可是廚餘來源跟這個疫情的起因其實關聯性還有待討論所以這個重點是說請問清潔隊有足夠的這個技術跟設備去辨識說廚餘內可不可能有"},{"start":149.937,"end":150.909,"text":"非洲豬瘟的病毒嗎"},{"start":151.884,"end":166.67,"text":"他不可能嘛我要跟委員說明這個必須要去強調喔廚餘本身它可能含有不同的一些包括危險包括病毒的部分但是我們進到廚餘養豬一定要落實徵主這個一定要強調我就是我們講重點就不是在新疆的分配或是廚餘來源嘛就是在這個高溫這個徵主這個是重點那麼既然高溫徵主的條件是決定感染力的這個關鍵那我現在請教兩位部長喔"},{"start":180.475,"end":184.739,"text":"那為什麼全台灣共同爭主的場合目前只有一家"},{"start":185.973,"end":210.868,"text":"共同徵組一家在苗栗為什麼只有一家呢我要跟委員報告這是兩件事情就是目前有434家的廚藝養豬的這些廠它這些廠大部分都是自己徵組大部分都自己徵組那有一些希望說能夠共同徵組現在總共有四個縣市九個案子在申請共同徵組那現在營運的就是苗栗縣的一家"},{"start":212.048,"end":237.214,"text":"謝謝部長的說明等一下我們稍微討論一下因為你如果讓他各自為政 各自去做那你又要集合 又有這個上傳不完整那這些都很耗費的人士那如果是共同爭主有一個做法也許是更有效率的但是對於 我再提到就是說對於要不要禁止廚藝剛剛陳鵬部長有稍微報告一下未來的可能做法但是中央跟地方現在目前好像看法不一樣"},{"start":238.914,"end":253.443,"text":"所以中央就有責任來做解決嘛到底是說要落實這個廚餘的爭取的步驟呢還是說未來想要禁止廚餘呢這個方向剛剛彭部長簡單講了一下那有更清楚的方向嗎我想齁"},{"start":255.406,"end":282.507,"text":"廚餘本身以農業部過去對於廚餘養豬的立場我們都是一致的我們就是持續的輔導這些廚餘養豬場能夠轉為飼料這是我們的一直以來的立場從過去大概107、108年的2000多場到現在434場就是說部長不反對就是使用廚餘啦對 但是廚餘本身我一直強調廚餘本身你如果落實它的一個徵足我們了解它就是一個很好的一個料源"},{"start":283.327,"end":307.946,"text":"對 要飼料化的一個過程非常重要那我再請教 當然剛剛已經報告了就是台中市政府這次相關單位有點施責的問題因為沒有去監督我們目前不能說台中市政府有施責或沒施責我們的疫調本身最重要的是追查我們的來源疫調的過程裡面 最後疫調報告出來才會去看有哪一些破口 那個是後續的責任"},{"start":309.207,"end":326.066,"text":"我再請問彭部長那過去沒有確實上傳的你有沒有罰則 到底有沒有因為有一次在爭論包委員是有的 他會違反廢棄法好 那我現在重點就是說那過去 未來當然一定會加緊這個加長這個集合或甚至罰則那已經過去了就算了嗎"},{"start":327.026,"end":347.515,"text":"包委員他其實就會再追溯去處罰嗎重點是在集合因為如果集合的話那個養豬的珍珠場的這個他就會積極去處理所以目前的重點是在這個集合讓他們都知道這是有罰則的那陳部長25日你接受採訪的時候表達除於是共同珍珠是環境部跟農業部共同負擔"},{"start":348.115,"end":368.596,"text":"因為現在這個就是責任權責就是稍微要釐清一下但是我們也有看到這個環管署副署長對於權責劃分有不太一樣的說法當然他是把責任攬到自己身上他認為設立共同徵主的這個場是農業部的責任所以到底徵主場的設立是農業部還是環境部的責任呢"},{"start":369.216,"end":395.265,"text":"我想一個珍珠廠他要興建第一個他的用地要取得要合法那用地的合法就是農業部的部分然後他本身的一些興辦事業因為他要用來做廚餘養豬的時候那興辦事業我們會經過農業部的審視是不是有這個必要那至於說後面的相關興建以後的這些環境衛生的污染是不是有防範"},{"start":396.705,"end":408.891,"text":"那廚餘的處理就是你要接手囉 環境部要接手囉就是我們的廚餘處理的再利用這個接手的問題 這個就是很我想我們跟環境部我覺得我們的分工跟合作是絕對是沒問題的沒有說這是誰的部位"},{"start":412.532,"end":430.783,"text":"713年度的資料就是全台灣大概有42.8的加護魚儲剛剛你也報告相當高的數字養賴飼料化來消化掉這是很大宗的處理方式那如果環境部有信心讓其他的去化管道剛剛你也稍微提了一下來消化大量的廚餘那麼中央就可以有更彈性的做法"},{"start":431.764,"end":458.638,"text":"那目前台灣是大概還沒有辦法完全不用廚餘來養豬啦那偏偏這次在廚餘的爭主系統當中這個爭主又是最重要的關鍵所以最重要的是你們的政策未來到底要繼續目前就使用廚餘然後加強集合然後等等還是說未來是往使用非廚餘不使用廚餘的方向走呢就是我可不可以先知道你們的規劃的方向我想我剛才講得非常清楚我們現在政策"},{"start":460.39,"end":477.453,"text":"我們一直持續輔導除以養豬場轉型然後因為在這個階段防疫是最優先的但是在防疫的過程中我們也看到了一些問題所以這些問題我們會滾動的檢討會在這個疫情比較能夠確認告一段落以後"},{"start":478.533,"end":489.919,"text":"從2018我們啟動這些事情以後其實7年了 除於政策轉型還是說共同爭主的建設期其實都7年了我們從2000多場降到434場那我們剛剛也討論了共同爭主的有一些優點嘛"},{"start":496.042,"end":522.593,"text":"然後再做分配然後你不要各個去讓他們各自為政最後我要請教一個非常重要的問題昨天的記者會那個疫情指揮中心的疫情會指出有一個化智三連單數字是有異常的就三連單本來是同時開出的那請問甲連跟丙連的數字他說不一樣請問這個數字差了什麼呢因為甲連是由司機來說乙連也是由司機來說但司機是把他送到這個化智廠"},{"start":523.934,"end":541.502,"text":"那這個乙聯最後是會留在最後的官方的數字那丙聯就留在豬農這邊那個三個數字不一樣是很嚴重的事情那請問甲跟丙差多少那乙聯到底是跟甲一樣還是跟丙不一樣還是三個都不一樣"},{"start":542.622,"end":562.937,"text":"這個很嚴重的事情我覺得委員說得非常正確三年單是要一致的但是我們發現說三年單的數字不一致三年單裡面分給豬農 給化製廠還有給司機以後轉交給可能地方政府最後是官方數字的依據對 這三個不一樣的時候就應該去釐清我可以知道部長哪一個現在比較像嗎"},{"start":564.438,"end":580.314,"text":"給官方的東西 乙聯到底現在是跟甲比較像我現在因為在整個疫調有不同的單據那不同單據有不同的樣態所以這個部分我們都會更清楚的釐清這個很關鍵 這涉及這個我了解 我想我們疫調有後面的專家會議在討論那有一些"},{"start":583.517,"end":611.15,"text":"像您刚才说的这个就必须厘清因为这牵涉到死亡的支数那死亡支数是不是有流向所以这个是一个非常严肃的一个问题非常严肃的问题所以昨天这个指挥中心有报出来嘛所以这个这个以莲还有在做以莲听说啦所以自己有做一些修改修改不是恶意的而是说他可能有增加一些租资的数目这个不可能说不可能用手改嘛不可能说他写错改的因为三年单本身要一致性"},{"start":611.65,"end":629.159,"text":"可是現在就說不一致所以我說我們在這疫調的一些疑點我們必須要再去釐清那請部長這邊就是兩位都趕快去我們絕對 我們非常關注這個疫情本身的疫調的一些資訊三年單的真相非常重要了解 我知道那我們就等待這個資料出來非常謝謝 謝謝委員的關心謝謝兩位部長 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":202,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時19分）謝謝主席，有請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：有請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長早。部長，根據農業部的統計數字，2018年我們為了防範非洲豬瘟病毒進入臺灣，所以啟動了邊境查驗，到6天前的數字大概是已經查到9,511件的違規品，但是很重要的是，其中有997件是測出豬瘟病毒的陽性反應，這個比率是10.5%，就是超過一成是帶有豬瘟病毒的。請問陳部長，你認為這個比率高嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我第一個要說明這個數據的來源，我們相關的違規部分，就是說，我們在邊境的時候有勸導，如果帶有肉製品的話要棄置到垃圾桶，不是他夾帶後我們抽驗到的，所以這個數據可以顯示出國外肉製品帶有非洲豬瘟病毒陽性，特別是高風險區，大概有10%。"],["陳委員昭姿：部長，你在說明的是類似抽驗的母數啦，但是豬瘟陽性的占比率是高的！"],["陳部長駿季：從高風險區來的豬肉製品，的確呈現非洲豬瘟陽性反應的比率比較高。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝部長的說明，但是我要強調的是，我覺得這個數字是高的，因為每天從中國、東南亞疫區進來的貨物包裹數量非常龐大，當然不可能密不透風嘛！這個我理解，所以部長也知道還是有可能有漏網之肉進入臺灣，不管有多少比例，其中也有可能帶有豬瘟的病毒。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：如果人沒有吃完，還是可能進入廚餘系統，我這樣子的推論OK嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：有這個可能。"],["陳委員昭姿：對，這些肉會進來，然後人吃下去，吃不完就變成廚餘。麻煩彭部長一起上臺，謝謝你。廚餘系統的運作雖然是由地方的清潔隊來分配到各個養豬場，最近我看到新聞一直在追蹤廚餘來源，可是廚餘來源跟這個疫情的關聯性其實還有待討論，所以重點是，請問清潔隊有足夠的技術跟設備去辨識廚餘內可不可能有非洲豬瘟的病毒嗎？它不可能嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員說明，這個必須要去強調，廚餘本身可能含有不同的一些物質，包括危險的、包括病毒的部分，但是進到廚餘養豬一定要落實蒸煮，這個一定要強調。"],["陳委員昭姿：對，所以重點就不是在清潔隊的分配或是廚餘來源，而是高溫蒸煮才是重點，既然高溫蒸煮的條件是決定感染力的關鍵，那我現在請教兩位部長，為什麼全臺灣的共同蒸煮場目前只有一家，在苗栗，為什麼只有一家呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員報告，這是兩件事情，目前有434家的廚餘養豬場，這些場大部分都是自己蒸煮，有一些希望能夠共同蒸煮，現在總共有4個縣市、9個案子在申請共同蒸煮，而現在營運的就是苗栗縣的一家。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝部長的說明，但等一下我們會討論到，因為你如果讓它各自為政、各自去做，那你又要稽核，又可能上傳不完整，這些都很耗費人力，如果是採取共同蒸煮的作法也許是更有效率的。","再提到要不要禁止廚餘，剛剛彭部長有稍微報告未來可能的作法，但是中央跟地方目前好像看法不一樣，所以中央有責任來解決，到底是要落實廚餘蒸煮的步驟，還是說未來想要禁止廚餘呢？這個方向剛剛彭部長簡單講了一下，那有更清楚的方向嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：以農業部過去對於廚餘養豬的立場，我們都是一致的，我們就是持續輔導這些廚餘養豬場能夠轉為飼料，這是我們一直以來的立場，從過去大概107、108年的兩千多場，到現在434場。"],["陳委員昭姿：就是說部長不反對使用廚餘啦！"],["陳部長駿季：對，但是我一直強調，廚餘本身如果落實它的蒸煮……"],["陳委員昭姿：是，我們了解。"],["陳部長駿季：它就是一個很好的料源。"],["陳委員昭姿：它要飼料化的過程非常重要。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：我再請教，當然剛剛已經報告了，有關臺中市政府相關單位這次有點失責的問題，因為沒有去監督。"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們目前不能說臺中市政府有失責或沒失責，我們的疫調本身最重要的是追查來源。"],["陳委員昭姿：其實是很困難的啦！有四百多家。"],["陳部長駿季：在疫調的過程裡面，等最後疫調報告出來才會去看有哪一些破口，那個是後續的責任。"],["陳委員昭姿：我再請問彭部長，對於過去沒有確實上傳的，你有沒有罰則？因為現在有爭論。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，是有的，它會違反廢清法。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，未來當然一定會加強稽核，甚至予以開罰，那已經過去的就算了嗎？會追溯去處罰嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：重點是在稽核，因為如果稽核的話，養豬場的廚餘蒸煮就會積極去處理，所以目前的重點是在稽核。"],["陳委員昭姿：讓他們都知道這是有罰則的。"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["陳委員昭姿：陳部長，25日您接受採訪的時候表達，廚餘共同蒸煮是環境部跟農業部共同負擔，這個的權責稍微要釐清一下，我們也看到環管署副署長對於權責劃分有不太一樣的說法，當然他是把責任攬到自己身上，他認為設立共同蒸煮場是農業部的責任，所以到底蒸煮場的設立是農業部還是環境部的責任呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我想一個蒸煮場要興建，第一個，它的用地取得要合法，用地的合法就是農業部的部分；然後它本身的一些興辦事業，因為它要用來做廚餘養豬的時候，興辦事業會經過農業部的審視，是不是有這個必要；至於後面興建以後相關的這些環境衛生污染是不是有防範，那就是環境部。"],["陳委員昭姿：那廚餘的處理就是環境部要接手嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：就是廚餘處理的再利用就是我們負責。"],["陳委員昭姿：這個接手的問題就是很……"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得我們跟環境部的分工跟合作是絕對沒問題的，沒有說這是誰的部分……"],["陳委員昭姿：根據113年度的資料，全臺灣大概有42.8萬噸的家戶廚餘，剛剛你也報告過是相當高的數字，有賴飼料化來消化掉，這是很大宗的處理方式，如果環境部有信心讓其他的去化管道來消化大量的廚餘，剛剛你也稍微提了一下，中央就可以有更彈性的作法。目前臺灣大概還不能完全不用廚餘來養豬，偏偏在廚餘的蒸煮系統當中，蒸煮的條件又是非常重要關鍵，所以最重要的是你們的政策，未來到底是要繼續使用廚餘，然後加強稽核等等，還是說未來是往不使用廚餘的方向走呢？我可不可以先知道你們規劃的方向？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我剛才講得非常清楚，我們現在的政策是，我們一直持續輔導廚餘養豬場轉型，因為在這個階段防疫是最優先的，但是在防疫的過程中我們也看到了一些問題，所以這些問題我們會滾動的檢討，會在這個疫情比較能夠確認告一段落以後，我想我們持續在……"],["陳委員昭姿：從2018年我們啟動這些事情以後已經七年了，不管是廚餘政策轉型，還是共同蒸煮的建設期，其實都七年了，我們看到只有1間啦！"],["陳部長駿季：我們從兩千多場降到434場。"],["陳委員昭姿：我們剛剛也討論了共同蒸煮的一些優點，中央來處理，然後再做分配，不要讓他們各自為政。","最後我要請教一個非常重要的問題，昨天疫情應變中心的記者會指出化製三聯單的數字是有異常的，就是三聯單本來是同時開出的，但他說甲聯跟丙聯的數字不一樣，請問這個數字差了什麼呢？因為甲聯是由司機來收，乙聯也是由司機來收，但司機是把甲聯送到化製場，乙聯是最後留在官方的數字，丙聯就留在豬農那邊。這三個數字不一樣是很嚴重的事情，請問甲跟丙差多少，乙聯到底是跟甲聯不一樣，還是跟丙聯不一樣，還是三個都不一樣？這是很嚴重的事情耶！"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得委員說得非常正確，三聯單是要一致的，但是我們發現三聯單的數字不一致，三聯單分別給豬農、給化製場，還有給司機以後可能轉交給地方政府……"],["陳委員昭姿：最後是官方數字的依據。"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以當這三個不一樣的時候，就應該去釐清……"],["陳委員昭姿：我可以知道哪一個……"],["陳部長駿季：這個要去釐清。"],["陳委員昭姿：給官方的乙聯到底現在是跟甲聯比較像，還是……"],["陳部長駿季：現在因為在整個疫調裡有不同的單據，不同單據有不同的樣態，所以這個部分我們都會更清楚地釐清。"],["陳委員昭姿：這個很關鍵，這涉及……"],["陳部長駿季：我了解，我想我們疫調有後面的專家會議在討論，有一些像委員剛才說的，這個就必須釐清，因為這牽涉到死亡的隻數以及流向，所以這個是一個非常嚴肅的問題。"],["陳委員昭姿：非常嚴肅的問題，所以昨天應變中心有報出來嘛！還有聽說在乙聯的部分司機有做了一些修改，不是惡意的修改，而是他可能有增加一些豬隻的數目……"],["陳部長駿季：這個不可能……"],["陳委員昭姿：這個不可能用手改嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：不可能說是他寫錯改的，因為三聯單本身要有一致性。"],["陳委員昭姿：可是現在就是不一致。"],["陳部長駿季：對，所以我說針對疫調的一些疑點我們必須要再去釐清。"],["陳委員昭姿：請部長趕快稽查，我們想要知道真相。"],["陳部長駿季：我們非常關注這個疫情疫調的一些資訊。"],["陳委員昭姿：三聯單的真相非常重要。"],["陳部長駿季：了解，我知道。"],["陳委員昭姿：好，那我們就等待這個資料出來。"],["陳部長駿季：非常謝謝委員的關心。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝兩位部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席（劉委員建國）：謝謝委員，謝謝部長，請回。","接下來請林月琴委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":372,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-7","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","蘇清泉","林淑芬","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","陳瑩","陳素月","謝龍介","王鴻薇","徐富癸","王正旭","涂權吉","楊曜","吳沛憶","牛煦庭","盧縣一","何欣純","范雲","洪孟楷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1149002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149002_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、農業部、經濟部、教育部、國防部就「防範非洲豬瘟疫情擴\n散，強化全國廚餘去化問題以及後續防疫、清消等作為」提出專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審\n查( 一) 行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 二) 委員廖先翔等18 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四\n十九條條文修正草案」案、( 五) 委員魯明哲等16 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草\n案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等\n19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草\n案」案、(十)委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十一)委員翁曉\n玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十\n二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員劉建國等17人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第\n六條條文修正草案」案、 ( 十五) 委員沈發惠等18 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏\n等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全\n衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正\n草案」案、(二十)委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委\n員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案；三、審查(一)委員王正旭等23人\n擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員吳沛憶等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部\n分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員莊瑞雄等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第九條條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員林月琴等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(五)委員林淑芬等21人擬\n具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(六)委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分\n條文修正草案」案、(七)委員徐富癸等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(八)\n委員黃捷等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(九)委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「職\n業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)委員陳亭妃等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修\n正草案」案【逐條討論】","agenda_id":"1149002_00001"}}}