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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 981.676, \"end\": 981.876, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 981.876, \"end\": 982.136, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 982.136, \"end\": 982.296, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 982.296, \"end\": 982.316, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,858 --> 00:00:06,644\n有請部長跟國務卿來我們請部長跟國務卿\n\n2\n00:00:12,438 --> 00:00:29,419\n人員署也請上來好國營事業不只要賺錢更要顧安全顧員工顧地方好今天本席針對國營事業的改革要來跟這個部長跟國營事來做個\n\n3\n00:00:32,260 --> 00:00:55,885\n討論我們國營事業的改革不應該只有營運跟報表中油台電台水台糖這些國營事業是國家最重要的人員跟民生支柱最近因為人員價格的波動通膨的壓力淨零轉型的挑戰這些國營事業被要求提高營收降低成本但是忽略了三件事情安全勞動\n\n4\n00:00:57,386 --> 00:01:25,894\n地方責任營收住址可以美化我不說造假它可以美化安全事故卻不能說謊國營世界如果只看營餘忽視了安全跟人力最終損失的會是民眾的信任跟國家的根本好我們話說天然氣的洩漏本席認為這不應該在永安這個地方當作單次的意外應該建立起長期制度性的監測\n\n5\n00:01:27,094 --> 00:01:52,493\n根據IEA這個國際組織在去年針對LNG甲烷外洩的國際報告IEA跟國內學者來比對衛星數據這個數據很有趣從去年年底到今年年初台灣的發電廠數字的被國際衛星偵測到天然氣溢散的\n\n6\n00:01:53,374 --> 00:02:12,563\n的這個數據我這邊都羅列出來202412月1號有一些20251月4號包括今年的1月12號1月4號到1月12號6天而已國際的這樣的IEA的利用衛星數據就可以偵測的到\n\n7\n00:02:13,183 --> 00:02:31,315\n而國內現有就是以物聯網偵測的系統卻未能同步偵測到異常這代表我國的天然氣安全的體系是有盲區的我點出來你們這個的缺失你們現在都是物聯網啊然後但是卻未能同步偵測到異常\n\n8\n00:02:33,016 --> 00:02:47,935\n所以人家是從去年年底到今年年初連這三次都有這樣的報告所以這個忙具要請部長跟國運司你們要去注意因為LNG天然氣的安全人員的安全是人員屬\n\n9\n00:02:49,477 --> 00:03:10,619\n你在主管好那所以呢天然氣的洩漏不應該是單次以外應該建立的長期制度性的監測所以本期要求應該要建立燃氣安全監管方案為了顧及環境保護及國人生命財產安全要求人員署因為是天然氣的主管機關\n\n10\n00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:28,055\n整合中油而中油是目前國內唯一進口天然氣的但是進來之後你會給民間譬如說新雄瓦斯啦所謂新自備的全國的瓦斯民生在用啊但是台電也會用到天然氣的發電都已經進到這個發電佔比都50%了都還會再更提高\n\n11\n00:03:35,021 --> 00:04:00,388\n所以即刻起規劃科技化衛星天然氣的監管方案以強化監管的這個以強化這個監管我要求一個月內你提出建制時程的規劃安全不能靠口號也不能再等下一次的爆炸或洩漏才要再來做檢討好這個是不是先回應一下部長國營司人員署來是\n\n12\n00:04:02,982 --> 00:04:15,734\n謝委員的這個的建議啦這個是新的方法只要有新的方法好的方法那我們來研理看看那一個月以後會給委員一個報告嘛就是看看包括這個衛星數據他發為什麼對這個議題\n\n13\n00:04:18,076 --> 00:04:42,335\n我們高雄人非常有感2014年的這個凱旋路的氣爆案那也是這個油管的一個氣爆其實到現在為止如果我能夠用衛星它的範圍是更大的那所以這個部分要也謝謝部長您這麼明快的一個才事好我們來看國營事業的績效不應該犧牲基層\n\n14\n00:04:44,416 --> 00:05:09,426\n這左邊這個報告是你們經濟部在113年國營私所提出來的未來國營事業未來10年的人力的嚴重斷層這這個表所呈現的是什麼國營事業員工的平均年齡是46歲中油是平均的年齡是47.8台電是46.3人力高齡化再加上外包比例過高\n\n15\n00:05:10,646 --> 00:05:26,533\n所以導致什麼技術傳承有斷層安全操作當然就會出現缺口我永安林園兩大廠近五年內發生多起都是誰外包維修期間的異常事件\n\n16\n00:05:27,613 --> 00:05:56,713\n險之風安全風險跟能力短缺這兩個雙重問題所帶來的這個公安事件所以國營師應該要思考國營事業真才是有別於公務人員的公職人員這很吊詭我們的禁用是比照公務人員但是呢當公務人員現在要這個調薪的時候我們國營事業這要我替國營事業所有的員工講個話他一定是比公務人員慢\n\n17\n00:05:57,453 --> 00:06:17,039\n幅度也會比國營人員低那因為調薪又沒有一個機制每次都要在立法院不分藍綠的在這個預算會期當中的隔年要大力疾呼你看今年什麼時候才核定這個年終獎金的績效去年就在喊啊喊到現在四五月才核定啊\n\n18\n00:06:17,879 --> 00:06:44,189\n公務人員早就年初1月1號就開始執行甚至你公布的時候還可以追溯所以你說你要徵才國營事業的禁用比照公務人員不好意思他的績效又要比照企業所以你民間企業在徵才你一定要維持企業的競爭力必須提高誘因這幾個誘因福利薪資勞動環境還要加上科技化的應用\n\n19\n00:06:44,969 --> 00:07:04,543\n本身我們的相關的智慧化的決策智慧化的一個這個經營管理這都應該要納入這也是誘因啊才能吸引我們國營事業才能吸引優秀人才來提升企業的競爭力好所以我具體要求優化國營事業能力結構與勞動條件第一個經濟部應建立國營事業職災通報與追蹤系統所有的爆炸洩漏墜落事件及時揭露\n\n20\n00:07:13,729 --> 00:07:29,270\n我講的是經濟部部本部現在是各國營事業自己有自己跟地方的回報跟縣市政府的回報那這是每個國營事業都有建立起這個機制沒有各區自己經營好像中油我其實就是要額露一下\n\n21\n00:07:30,832 --> 00:07:47,632\n中遊在地方上也記取這些公安事件所以其實董事長這邊我要給你鼓勵一下給你拍手一下你對於只要任何的公安事件其實都會及時的跟我們地方的這些意見領袖做通報至少我本席也有收到\n\n22\n00:07:48,553 --> 00:08:17,893\n那但是台電那就要加把勁了好在我相信總經理董事長你們也非常非常辛苦這實在是我實在也民眾的安全包括我們人員的政策的執行其實台電是真的很辛苦但是我還是得要求所以像這個的這個部分但是我要講跟部長知道你這些的追蹤系統都是各工廠自己跟各地方自己不同我覺得應該不管不同一\n\n23\n00:08:18,913 --> 00:08:39,838\n你自己要掌握啊要不然公安事件你們通通都是在背後收尾啊然後大家都急救張啊所以這個我覺得要求部本部自己本身要有國營事業職災通報及追蹤系統的及時揭露那第二個請國營市一個月內會同國營事業跟工會討論兩件事情第一個強化國營事業的競爭力研討國營事業\n\n24\n00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:59,173\n職工福利與公職人員薪酬條件脫鉤方案你禁用跟福利都比照公務人員啊那不對啊那但是你的企業公務人員不用要求企業的這種的績效你卻要求他績效啊那你相關的這個他們站在第一線國營事業除了台堂之外其實都是高危險的工作\n\n25\n00:09:08,081 --> 00:09:31,655\n你包括連台電要出海那個離岸風電他們也要工作船那也屬於危險不是只有在陸地上在山區電線港爬那中油更不在話下了每一個他就在都是在高危險的石化廠區所以這個他的薪資他的職工福利一定要脫鉤公務人員的薪酬這個我要求那請國營市這邊也當然請部長你才是\n\n26\n00:09:34,616 --> 00:09:55,424\n這以及針對特定第一線工作人員因提撥職災意外津貼的補貼這說起來很好玩喔這個工會啊的會員的錢都是會員自己繳他們針對就終有我了解其實工會都有提供他們另外在勞健保之外還有一個職災的一個補貼\n\n27\n00:09:57,304 --> 00:10:16,189\n中油本公司有沒有沒有台電本公司有沒有沒有台水有沒有他們也都是在地底下在專刊啊等等啊沒有欸所以我這邊要求部本部這邊尤其國營司主導在一個月內會同國營司公會要針對這兩項也要來做一個這個討論\n\n28\n00:10:20,130 --> 00:10:46,878\n這就是你的勞工條件啊這就是你的這個福利條件啊甚至你的這個為了增加國營事業的競爭你的科技化的部分你需要工會怎麼的替你做宣導跟人員訓練啊這在在都是對於你國營事業到底是不是全台人員命脈你有沒有重視國營事業他是全台的人員命脈這件事情的重要性好所以最後結語\n\n29\n00:10:48,628 --> 00:11:03,175\n國營事業的改革回到三個安全是底線員工是根本地方是責任所以國營事業不能只是賺錢的公司更是國家的延伸我要求經濟部自己提案修改國營事業管理法第13條\n\n30\n00:11:04,275 --> 00:11:08,460\nKPI不只是盈餘而是國營事業管理法第3條要納入KPI要納入安全勞工跟地方貢獻唯有這樣國營事業才不只是國家資產更是人民信任的力量好在這邊我漏了一下齁\n\n31\n00:11:20,934 --> 00:11:45,770\n就是說在國營事業是根本效益要回到地方所以呢像我高雄擁有永安LNG的接收站大林電廠、興達電廠、林園石化基地是全台人員的命脈地方回饋不能只有回饋金我要強調這一點你們不能只有回饋金還要建置制度性的合作帶動地方發展讓國營企業不再是嫌惡設施將\n\n32\n00:11:47,591 --> 00:12:08,900\n具體要求將地方回饋納入公司治理的ESG報告三項第一個國營事業董事會的營運目標中因名列在地採購金額第二個地方稅收的貢獻第三合作學校的訓練人數尤其合作學校的訓練人數我非常感謝中油跟台電這要讓部長知道\n\n33\n00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:34,651\n在高雄市的所有的產學合作中油的在林園廠的產學專班我非常感謝中油是把他真的明確的納入他人才培養的基地這我非常的感謝包括在小港我的這個中油也是有這個中油的這個產學專班也是一樣再來台電我也是非常的感謝你們那個幾乎辦的績效都非常的好\n\n34\n00:12:36,072 --> 00:12:52,600\n這個學徒制的建制有在高中的階段的納入地方稅收的貢獻合作學校的訓練就應該納入公司治理的ESG報告第二個經濟部每年發布這是我要求的國營事業在地效益白皮書\n\n35\n00:12:53,641 --> 00:13:09,457\n一切都公開接入高雄的採購金額投資項目跟就業創造你在在地啊我不要說你只有回饋啊制度性的合作來帶動地方發展你地方採購就要採購我高雄有人你就跟我高雄來做採購\n\n36\n00:13:10,718 --> 00:13:38,652\n投資項目我們有的你投資了多少我高雄的公共建設跟我市政府合作就業創造本來就是應該如此所有的第三個要求重大建設如七階忍忍的再利用園區同步建立地方監測委員會保障資訊公開社會參與這種所謂重大你說你要把它當作壁嶺你反而會被攻擊你把它當作公共建設地方參與你就會一起成長\n\n37\n00:13:39,772 --> 00:14:04,819\n好在這邊我不知道部長您就回答一下吧針對在人員這個國營師趕快的我對於人才人力結構跟勞動結構的部分第七頁這邊您回應一下好謝謝事實上我們現在執行的方向也跟委員的提醒是大致上一樣那尤其薪水的部分我們也有一些彈性像這一次公務員調薪3%但是我們\n\n38\n00:14:06,119 --> 00:14:32,747\n國營事業是調了3.5%因為最近這些國營事業的同仁也真是非常辛苦那就像剛剛提到的我們新進人員可能要有一些機制嘛我們慢慢來調整這個方向是這樣部長我講的就是你現在能夠上升到部本部而且要制度化部本部對於國營事業對於質災的部分的通報系統的即時揭露部本部喔那國營是你一個月內對於國營事業跟工會要跟工會討論\n\n39\n00:14:34,427 --> 00:14:53,065\n你的這個福利職工福利跟公職人的薪資要脫鉤你也當然但是我強調是跟國營事業跟工會一起討論把它制度建立起來好嗎我們是不是把這些制度的建立我們是不是一個月內把這個所有相關的資料報給我們經紀委員會然後給我們委員辦公室知道\n\n40\n00:14:58,510 --> 00:15:09,390\n那請主席您是不是能夠接續採視一下我這邊眷對地方回饋的部分納入公司治理的ESG的報告有這三項也請他是不是能夠做研議呢\n\n41\n00:15:12,420 --> 00:15:28,435\n在這個報告裡面一個月夠嗎這一個要將地方回饋納入公司自己的ESG報告包括在地採購地方稅收貢獻合作學校的訓練人數還有國營事業在地效益的白皮書還有重大新設地方監測的委員會\n\n42\n00:15:29,736 --> 00:15:57,336\n再麻煩戴華你把這些一份資料給他們他們要做的相關分析相關資料給他們這樣才不會有漏掉的好謝謝主席然後最後請主席是不是也採視一下這個就真的經濟部提案你研議提案剛國營事業管理法的第13條裡面修正讓你的KPI要包含安全勞動地方貢獻及至正式的法治化之後就不用在那邊爭了\n\n43\n00:15:58,597 --> 00:16:22,316\n我們是不是一併在這一個月內檢討出來說是不是有這個必要要把我們國營事業管理法的第13條來做修正然後讓他的KPI不只是盈餘而可以有包含到安全勞動地方貢獻這些部分我們一併在一個月把它提出我們的報告那該修法的我們再來修好不好謝謝感謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3858\t6644\t有請部長跟國務卿來 我們請部長跟國務卿\n12438\t29419\t人員署也請上來好國營事業不只要賺錢更要顧安全顧員工顧地方好今天本席針對國營事業的改革要來跟這個部長跟國營事來做個\n32260\t55885\t討論我們國營事業的改革不應該只有營運跟報表中油台電台水台糖這些國營事業是國家最重要的人員跟民生支柱最近因為人員價格的波動通膨的壓力淨零轉型的挑戰這些國營事業被要求提高營收降低成本但是忽略了三件事情安全勞動\n57386\t85894\t地方責任營收住址可以美化我不說造假它可以美化安全事故卻不能說謊國營世界如果只看營餘忽視了安全跟人力最終損失的會是民眾的信任跟國家的根本好 我們話說天然氣的洩漏本席認為這不應該在永安這個地方當作單次的意外應該建立起長期制度性的監測\n87094\t112493\t根據IEA這個國際組織在去年針對LNG甲烷外洩的國際報告IEA跟國內學者來比對衛星數據這個數據很有趣從去年年底到今年年初台灣的發電廠數字的被國際衛星偵測到天然氣溢散的\n113374\t132563\t的這個數據我這邊都羅列出來2024 12月1號有一些2025 1月4號包括今年的1月12號1月4號到1月12號6天而已國際的這樣的IEA的利用衛星數據就可以偵測的到\n133183\t151315\t而國內現有就是以物聯網偵測的系統卻未能同步偵測到異常這代表我國的天然氣安全的體系是有盲區的我點出來你們這個的缺失你們現在都是物聯網啊然後但是卻未能同步偵測到異常\n153016\t167935\t所以人家是從去年年底到今年年初連這三次都有這樣的報告所以這個忙具要請部長跟國運司你們要去注意因為LNG天然氣的安全人員的安全是人員屬\n169477\t190619\t你在主管好那所以呢天然氣的洩漏不應該是單次以外應該建立的長期制度性的監測所以本期要求應該要建立燃氣安全監管方案為了顧及環境保護及國人生命財產安全要求人員署因為是天然氣的主管機關\n191520\t208055\t整合中油而中油是目前國內唯一進口天然氣的但是進來之後你會給民間譬如說新雄瓦斯啦所謂新自備的全國的瓦斯民生在用啊但是台電也會用到天然氣的發電都已經進到這個發電佔比都50%了都還會再更提高\n215021\t240388\t所以即刻起規劃科技化衛星天然氣的監管方案以強化監管的這個以強化這個監管我要求一個月內你提出建制時程的規劃安全不能靠口號也不能再等下一次的爆炸或洩漏才要再來做檢討好這個是不是先回應一下部長國營司人員署來是\n242982\t255734\t謝委員的這個的建議啦這個是新的方法只要有新的方法好的方法那我們來研理看看那一個月以後會給委員一個報告嘛就是看看包括這個衛星數據他發為什麼對這個議題\n258076\t282335\t我們高雄人非常有感2014年的這個凱旋路的氣爆案那也是這個油管的一個氣爆其實到現在為止如果我能夠用衛星它的範圍是更大的那所以這個部分要也謝謝部長您這麼明快的一個才事好我們來看國營事業的績效不應該犧牲基層\n284416\t309426\t這左邊這個報告是你們經濟部在113年國營私所提出來的未來國營事業未來10年的人力的嚴重斷層這這個表所呈現的是什麼國營事業員工的平均年齡是46歲中油是平均的年齡是47.8台電是46.3人力高齡化再加上外包比例過高\n310646\t326533\t所以導致什麼技術傳承有斷層安全操作當然就會出現缺口我永安林園兩大廠近五年內發生多起都是誰外包維修期間的異常事件\n327613\t356713\t險之風安全風險跟能力短缺這兩個雙重問題所帶來的這個公安事件所以國營師應該要思考國營事業真才是有別於公務人員的公職人員這很吊詭我們的禁用是比照公務人員但是呢當公務人員現在要這個調薪的時候我們國營事業這要我替國營事業所有的員工講個話他一定是比公務人員慢\n357453\t377039\t幅度也會比國營人員低那因為調薪又沒有一個機制每次都要在立法院不分藍綠的在這個預算會期當中的隔年要大力疾呼你看今年什麼時候才核定這個年終獎金的績效去年就在喊啊喊到現在四五月才核定啊\n377879\t404189\t公務人員早就年初1月1號就開始執行甚至你公布的時候還可以追溯所以你說你要徵才國營事業的禁用比照公務人員 不好意思他的績效又要比照企業所以你民間企業在徵才你一定要維持企業的競爭力必須提高誘因 這幾個誘因福利 薪資 勞動環境還要加上科技化的應用\n404969\t424543\t本身我們的相關的智慧化的決策智慧化的一個這個經營管理這都應該要納入這也是誘因啊才能吸引我們國營事業才能吸引優秀人才來提升企業的競爭力好 所以我具體要求優化國營事業能力結構與勞動條件第一個 經濟部應建立國營事業職災通報與追蹤系統所有的爆炸 洩漏 墜落事件及時揭露\n433729\t449270\t我講的是經濟部部本部現在是各國營事業自己有自己跟地方的回報跟縣市政府的回報那這是每個國營事業都有建立起這個機制沒有各區自己經營好像中油我其實就是要額露一下\n450832\t467632\t中遊在地方上也記取這些公安事件所以其實董事長這邊我要給你鼓勵一下給你拍手一下你對於只要任何的公安事件其實都會及時的跟我們地方的這些意見領袖做通報至少我本席也有收到\n468553\t497893\t那但是台電那就要加把勁了好在我相信總經理董事長你們也非常非常辛苦這實在是我實在也民眾的安全包括我們人員的政策的執行其實台電是真的很辛苦但是我還是得要求所以像這個的這個部分但是我要講跟部長知道你這些的追蹤系統都是各工廠自己跟各地方自己不同我覺得應該不管不同一\n498913\t519838\t你自己要掌握啊要不然公安事件你們通通都是在背後收尾啊然後大家都急救張啊所以這個我覺得要求部本部自己本身要有國營事業職災通報及追蹤系統的及時揭露那第二個請國營市一個月內會同國營事業跟工會討論兩件事情第一個強化國營事業的競爭力研討國營事業\n523240\t539173\t職工福利與公職人員薪酬條件脫鉤方案你禁用跟福利都比照公務人員啊那不對啊那但是你的企業公務人員不用要求企業的這種的績效你卻要求他績效啊那你相關的這個他們站在第一線國營事業除了台堂之外其實都是高危險的工作\n548081\t571655\t你包括連台電要出海那個離岸風電他們也要工作船那也屬於危險不是只有在陸地上在山區電線港爬那中油更不在話下了每一個他就在都是在高危險的石化廠區所以這個他的薪資他的職工福利一定要脫鉤公務人員的薪酬這個我要求那請國營市這邊也當然請部長你才是\n574616\t595424\t這以及針對特定第一線工作人員因提撥職災意外津貼的補貼這說起來很好玩喔這個工會啊的會員的錢都是會員自己繳他們針對就終有我了解其實工會都有提供他們另外在勞健保之外還有一個職災的一個補貼\n597304\t616189\t中油本公司有沒有 沒有台電本公司有沒有 沒有台水有沒有他們也都是在地底下在專刊啊等等啊 沒有欸所以我這邊要求部本部這邊尤其國營司主導在一個月內會同國營司公會要針對這兩項也要來做一個這個討論\n620130\t646878\t這就是你的勞工條件啊這就是你的這個福利條件啊甚至你的這個為了增加國營事業的競爭你的科技化的部分你需要工會怎麼的替你做宣導跟人員訓練啊這在在都是對於你國營事業到底是不是全台人員命脈你有沒有重視國營事業他是全台的人員命脈這件事情的重要性好所以最後結語\n648628\t663175\t國營事業的改革 回到三個 安全是底線員工是根本 地方是責任所以國營事業不能只是賺錢的公司 更是國家的延伸我要求經濟部自己提案修改國營事業管理法第13條\n664275\t668460\tKPI不只是盈餘而是國營事業管理法第3條要納入KPI要納入安全勞工跟地方貢獻唯有這樣國營事業才不只是國家資產更是人民信任的力量好在這邊我漏了一下齁\n680934\t705770\t就是說在國營事業是根本效益要回到地方所以呢像我高雄擁有永安LNG的接收站大林電廠、興達電廠、林園石化基地是全台人員的命脈地方回饋不能只有回饋金我要強調這一點你們不能只有回饋金還要建置制度性的合作帶動地方發展讓國營企業不再是嫌惡設施將\n707591\t728900\t具體要求將地方回饋納入公司治理的ESG報告三項第一個國營事業董事會的營運目標中因名列在地採購金額第二個地方稅收的貢獻第三合作學校的訓練人數尤其合作學校的訓練人數我非常感謝中油跟台電這要讓部長知道\n730400\t754651\t在高雄市的所有的產學合作中油的在林園廠的產學專班我非常感謝中油是把他真的明確的納入他人才培養的基地這我非常的感謝包括在小港我的這個中油也是有這個中油的這個產學專班也是一樣再來台電我也是非常的感謝你們那個幾乎辦的績效都非常的好\n756072\t772600\t這個學徒制的建制有在高中的階段的納入地方稅收的貢獻合作學校的訓練就應該納入公司治理的ESG報告第二個經濟部每年發布這是我要求的國營事業在地效益白皮書\n773641\t789457\t一切都公開 接入高雄的採購金額投資項目跟就業創造你在在地啊 我不要說你只有回饋啊制度性的合作來帶動地方發展你地方採購就要採購 我高雄有人你就跟我高雄來做採購\n790718\t818652\t投資項目我們有的 你投資了多少我高雄的公共建設 跟我市政府合作就業創造 本來就是應該如此所有的第三個要求 重大建設如七階忍忍的再利用園區同步建立地方監測委員會保障資訊公開 社會參與這種所謂重大 你說你要把它當作壁嶺 你反而會被攻擊你把它當作公共建設 地方參與 你就會一起成長\n819772\t844819\t好在這邊我不知道部長您就回答一下吧針對在人員這個國營師趕快的我對於人才人力結構跟勞動結構的部分第七頁這邊您回應一下好謝謝事實上我們現在執行的方向也跟委員的提醒是大致上一樣那尤其薪水的部分我們也有一些彈性像這一次公務員調薪3%但是我們\n846119\t872747\t國營事業是調了3.5%因為最近這些國營事業的同仁也真是非常辛苦那就像剛剛提到的我們新進人員可能要有一些機制嘛我們慢慢來調整這個方向是這樣部長我講的就是你現在能夠上升到部本部而且要制度化部本部對於國營事業對於質災的部分的通報系統的即時揭露部本部喔那國營是你一個月內對於國營事業跟工會要跟工會討論\n874427\t893065\t你的這個福利 職工福利跟公職人的薪資要脫鉤你也當然 但是我強調是跟國營事業跟工會一起討論把它制度建立起來好嗎我們是不是把這些制度的建立我們是不是一個月內把這個所有相關的資料報給我們經紀委員會然後給我們委員辦公室知道\n898510\t909390\t那請主席您是不是能夠接續採視一下我這邊眷對地方回饋的部分納入公司治理的ESG的報告有這三項也請他是不是能夠做研議呢\n912420\t928435\t在這個報告裡面一個月夠嗎這一個要將地方回饋納入公司自己的ESG報告包括在地採購地方稅收貢獻合作學校的訓練人數還有國營事業在地效益的白皮書還有重大新設地方監測的委員會\n929736\t957336\t再麻煩戴華你把這些一份資料給他們他們要做的相關分析相關資料給他們這樣才不會有漏掉的好 謝謝主席然後最後請主席是不是也採視一下這個就真的經濟部提案你研議提案剛國營事業管理法的第13條裡面修正讓你的KPI要包含安全勞動地方貢獻及至正式的法治化之後就不用在那邊爭了\n958597\t982316\t我們是不是一併在這一個月內檢討出來說是不是有這個必要要把我們國營事業管理法的第13條來做修正然後讓他的KPI不只是盈餘而可以有包含到安全勞動地方貢獻這些部分我們一併在一個月把它提出我們的報告那該修法的我們再來修好不好 謝謝感謝主席 謝謝\n","txt":"有請部長跟國務卿來 我們請部長跟國務卿\n人員署也請上來好國營事業不只要賺錢更要顧安全顧員工顧地方好今天本席針對國營事業的改革要來跟這個部長跟國營事來做個\n討論我們國營事業的改革不應該只有營運跟報表中油台電台水台糖這些國營事業是國家最重要的人員跟民生支柱最近因為人員價格的波動通膨的壓力淨零轉型的挑戰這些國營事業被要求提高營收降低成本但是忽略了三件事情安全勞動\n地方責任營收住址可以美化我不說造假它可以美化安全事故卻不能說謊國營世界如果只看營餘忽視了安全跟人力最終損失的會是民眾的信任跟國家的根本好 我們話說天然氣的洩漏本席認為這不應該在永安這個地方當作單次的意外應該建立起長期制度性的監測\n根據IEA這個國際組織在去年針對LNG甲烷外洩的國際報告IEA跟國內學者來比對衛星數據這個數據很有趣從去年年底到今年年初台灣的發電廠數字的被國際衛星偵測到天然氣溢散的\n的這個數據我這邊都羅列出來2024 12月1號有一些2025 1月4號包括今年的1月12號1月4號到1月12號6天而已國際的這樣的IEA的利用衛星數據就可以偵測的到\n而國內現有就是以物聯網偵測的系統卻未能同步偵測到異常這代表我國的天然氣安全的體系是有盲區的我點出來你們這個的缺失你們現在都是物聯網啊然後但是卻未能同步偵測到異常\n所以人家是從去年年底到今年年初連這三次都有這樣的報告所以這個忙具要請部長跟國運司你們要去注意因為LNG天然氣的安全人員的安全是人員屬\n你在主管好那所以呢天然氣的洩漏不應該是單次以外應該建立的長期制度性的監測所以本期要求應該要建立燃氣安全監管方案為了顧及環境保護及國人生命財產安全要求人員署因為是天然氣的主管機關\n整合中油而中油是目前國內唯一進口天然氣的但是進來之後你會給民間譬如說新雄瓦斯啦所謂新自備的全國的瓦斯民生在用啊但是台電也會用到天然氣的發電都已經進到這個發電佔比都50%了都還會再更提高\n所以即刻起規劃科技化衛星天然氣的監管方案以強化監管的這個以強化這個監管我要求一個月內你提出建制時程的規劃安全不能靠口號也不能再等下一次的爆炸或洩漏才要再來做檢討好這個是不是先回應一下部長國營司人員署來是\n謝委員的這個的建議啦這個是新的方法只要有新的方法好的方法那我們來研理看看那一個月以後會給委員一個報告嘛就是看看包括這個衛星數據他發為什麼對這個議題\n我們高雄人非常有感2014年的這個凱旋路的氣爆案那也是這個油管的一個氣爆其實到現在為止如果我能夠用衛星它的範圍是更大的那所以這個部分要也謝謝部長您這麼明快的一個才事好我們來看國營事業的績效不應該犧牲基層\n這左邊這個報告是你們經濟部在113年國營私所提出來的未來國營事業未來10年的人力的嚴重斷層這這個表所呈現的是什麼國營事業員工的平均年齡是46歲中油是平均的年齡是47.8台電是46.3人力高齡化再加上外包比例過高\n所以導致什麼技術傳承有斷層安全操作當然就會出現缺口我永安林園兩大廠近五年內發生多起都是誰外包維修期間的異常事件\n險之風安全風險跟能力短缺這兩個雙重問題所帶來的這個公安事件所以國營師應該要思考國營事業真才是有別於公務人員的公職人員這很吊詭我們的禁用是比照公務人員但是呢當公務人員現在要這個調薪的時候我們國營事業這要我替國營事業所有的員工講個話他一定是比公務人員慢\n幅度也會比國營人員低那因為調薪又沒有一個機制每次都要在立法院不分藍綠的在這個預算會期當中的隔年要大力疾呼你看今年什麼時候才核定這個年終獎金的績效去年就在喊啊喊到現在四五月才核定啊\n公務人員早就年初1月1號就開始執行甚至你公布的時候還可以追溯所以你說你要徵才國營事業的禁用比照公務人員 不好意思他的績效又要比照企業所以你民間企業在徵才你一定要維持企業的競爭力必須提高誘因 這幾個誘因福利 薪資 勞動環境還要加上科技化的應用\n本身我們的相關的智慧化的決策智慧化的一個這個經營管理這都應該要納入這也是誘因啊才能吸引我們國營事業才能吸引優秀人才來提升企業的競爭力好 所以我具體要求優化國營事業能力結構與勞動條件第一個 經濟部應建立國營事業職災通報與追蹤系統所有的爆炸 洩漏 墜落事件及時揭露\n我講的是經濟部部本部現在是各國營事業自己有自己跟地方的回報跟縣市政府的回報那這是每個國營事業都有建立起這個機制沒有各區自己經營好像中油我其實就是要額露一下\n中遊在地方上也記取這些公安事件所以其實董事長這邊我要給你鼓勵一下給你拍手一下你對於只要任何的公安事件其實都會及時的跟我們地方的這些意見領袖做通報至少我本席也有收到\n那但是台電那就要加把勁了好在我相信總經理董事長你們也非常非常辛苦這實在是我實在也民眾的安全包括我們人員的政策的執行其實台電是真的很辛苦但是我還是得要求所以像這個的這個部分但是我要講跟部長知道你這些的追蹤系統都是各工廠自己跟各地方自己不同我覺得應該不管不同一\n你自己要掌握啊要不然公安事件你們通通都是在背後收尾啊然後大家都急救張啊所以這個我覺得要求部本部自己本身要有國營事業職災通報及追蹤系統的及時揭露那第二個請國營市一個月內會同國營事業跟工會討論兩件事情第一個強化國營事業的競爭力研討國營事業\n職工福利與公職人員薪酬條件脫鉤方案你禁用跟福利都比照公務人員啊那不對啊那但是你的企業公務人員不用要求企業的這種的績效你卻要求他績效啊那你相關的這個他們站在第一線國營事業除了台堂之外其實都是高危險的工作\n你包括連台電要出海那個離岸風電他們也要工作船那也屬於危險不是只有在陸地上在山區電線港爬那中油更不在話下了每一個他就在都是在高危險的石化廠區所以這個他的薪資他的職工福利一定要脫鉤公務人員的薪酬這個我要求那請國營市這邊也當然請部長你才是\n這以及針對特定第一線工作人員因提撥職災意外津貼的補貼這說起來很好玩喔這個工會啊的會員的錢都是會員自己繳他們針對就終有我了解其實工會都有提供他們另外在勞健保之外還有一個職災的一個補貼\n中油本公司有沒有 沒有台電本公司有沒有 沒有台水有沒有他們也都是在地底下在專刊啊等等啊 沒有欸所以我這邊要求部本部這邊尤其國營司主導在一個月內會同國營司公會要針對這兩項也要來做一個這個討論\n這就是你的勞工條件啊這就是你的這個福利條件啊甚至你的這個為了增加國營事業的競爭你的科技化的部分你需要工會怎麼的替你做宣導跟人員訓練啊這在在都是對於你國營事業到底是不是全台人員命脈你有沒有重視國營事業他是全台的人員命脈這件事情的重要性好所以最後結語\n國營事業的改革 回到三個 安全是底線員工是根本 地方是責任所以國營事業不能只是賺錢的公司 更是國家的延伸我要求經濟部自己提案修改國營事業管理法第13條\nKPI不只是盈餘而是國營事業管理法第3條要納入KPI要納入安全勞工跟地方貢獻唯有這樣國營事業才不只是國家資產更是人民信任的力量好在這邊我漏了一下齁\n就是說在國營事業是根本效益要回到地方所以呢像我高雄擁有永安LNG的接收站大林電廠、興達電廠、林園石化基地是全台人員的命脈地方回饋不能只有回饋金我要強調這一點你們不能只有回饋金還要建置制度性的合作帶動地方發展讓國營企業不再是嫌惡設施將\n具體要求將地方回饋納入公司治理的ESG報告三項第一個國營事業董事會的營運目標中因名列在地採購金額第二個地方稅收的貢獻第三合作學校的訓練人數尤其合作學校的訓練人數我非常感謝中油跟台電這要讓部長知道\n在高雄市的所有的產學合作中油的在林園廠的產學專班我非常感謝中油是把他真的明確的納入他人才培養的基地這我非常的感謝包括在小港我的這個中油也是有這個中油的這個產學專班也是一樣再來台電我也是非常的感謝你們那個幾乎辦的績效都非常的好\n這個學徒制的建制有在高中的階段的納入地方稅收的貢獻合作學校的訓練就應該納入公司治理的ESG報告第二個經濟部每年發布這是我要求的國營事業在地效益白皮書\n一切都公開 接入高雄的採購金額投資項目跟就業創造你在在地啊 我不要說你只有回饋啊制度性的合作來帶動地方發展你地方採購就要採購 我高雄有人你就跟我高雄來做採購\n投資項目我們有的 你投資了多少我高雄的公共建設 跟我市政府合作就業創造 本來就是應該如此所有的第三個要求 重大建設如七階忍忍的再利用園區同步建立地方監測委員會保障資訊公開 社會參與這種所謂重大 你說你要把它當作壁嶺 你反而會被攻擊你把它當作公共建設 地方參與 你就會一起成長\n好在這邊我不知道部長您就回答一下吧針對在人員這個國營師趕快的我對於人才人力結構跟勞動結構的部分第七頁這邊您回應一下好謝謝事實上我們現在執行的方向也跟委員的提醒是大致上一樣那尤其薪水的部分我們也有一些彈性像這一次公務員調薪3%但是我們\n國營事業是調了3.5%因為最近這些國營事業的同仁也真是非常辛苦那就像剛剛提到的我們新進人員可能要有一些機制嘛我們慢慢來調整這個方向是這樣部長我講的就是你現在能夠上升到部本部而且要制度化部本部對於國營事業對於質災的部分的通報系統的即時揭露部本部喔那國營是你一個月內對於國營事業跟工會要跟工會討論\n你的這個福利 職工福利跟公職人的薪資要脫鉤你也當然 但是我強調是跟國營事業跟工會一起討論把它制度建立起來好嗎我們是不是把這些制度的建立我們是不是一個月內把這個所有相關的資料報給我們經紀委員會然後給我們委員辦公室知道\n那請主席您是不是能夠接續採視一下我這邊眷對地方回饋的部分納入公司治理的ESG的報告有這三項也請他是不是能夠做研議呢\n在這個報告裡面一個月夠嗎這一個要將地方回饋納入公司自己的ESG報告包括在地採購地方稅收貢獻合作學校的訓練人數還有國營事業在地效益的白皮書還有重大新設地方監測的委員會\n再麻煩戴華你把這些一份資料給他們他們要做的相關分析相關資料給他們這樣才不會有漏掉的好 謝謝主席然後最後請主席是不是也採視一下這個就真的經濟部提案你研議提案剛國營事業管理法的第13條裡面修正讓你的KPI要包含安全勞動地方貢獻及至正式的法治化之後就不用在那邊爭了\n我們是不是一併在這一個月內檢討出來說是不是有這個必要要把我們國營事業管理法的第13條來做修正然後讓他的KPI不只是盈餘而可以有包含到安全勞動地方貢獻這些部分我們一併在一個月把它提出我們的報告那該修法的我們再來修好不好 謝謝感謝主席 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.858 --> 00:06.644\n有請部長跟國務卿來我們請部長跟國務卿\n\n00:12.438 --> 00:29.419\n人員署也請上來好國營事業不只要賺錢更要顧安全顧員工顧地方好今天本席針對國營事業的改革要來跟這個部長跟國營事來做個\n\n00:32.260 --> 00:55.885\n討論我們國營事業的改革不應該只有營運跟報表中油台電台水台糖這些國營事業是國家最重要的人員跟民生支柱最近因為人員價格的波動通膨的壓力淨零轉型的挑戰這些國營事業被要求提高營收降低成本但是忽略了三件事情安全勞動\n\n00:57.386 --> 01:25.894\n地方責任營收住址可以美化我不說造假它可以美化安全事故卻不能說謊國營世界如果只看營餘忽視了安全跟人力最終損失的會是民眾的信任跟國家的根本好我們話說天然氣的洩漏本席認為這不應該在永安這個地方當作單次的意外應該建立起長期制度性的監測\n\n01:27.094 --> 01:52.493\n根據IEA這個國際組織在去年針對LNG甲烷外洩的國際報告IEA跟國內學者來比對衛星數據這個數據很有趣從去年年底到今年年初台灣的發電廠數字的被國際衛星偵測到天然氣溢散的\n\n01:53.374 --> 02:12.563\n的這個數據我這邊都羅列出來202412月1號有一些20251月4號包括今年的1月12號1月4號到1月12號6天而已國際的這樣的IEA的利用衛星數據就可以偵測的到\n\n02:13.183 --> 02:31.315\n而國內現有就是以物聯網偵測的系統卻未能同步偵測到異常這代表我國的天然氣安全的體系是有盲區的我點出來你們這個的缺失你們現在都是物聯網啊然後但是卻未能同步偵測到異常\n\n02:33.016 --> 02:47.935\n所以人家是從去年年底到今年年初連這三次都有這樣的報告所以這個忙具要請部長跟國運司你們要去注意因為LNG天然氣的安全人員的安全是人員屬\n\n02:49.477 --> 03:10.619\n你在主管好那所以呢天然氣的洩漏不應該是單次以外應該建立的長期制度性的監測所以本期要求應該要建立燃氣安全監管方案為了顧及環境保護及國人生命財產安全要求人員署因為是天然氣的主管機關\n\n03:11.520 --> 03:28.055\n整合中油而中油是目前國內唯一進口天然氣的但是進來之後你會給民間譬如說新雄瓦斯啦所謂新自備的全國的瓦斯民生在用啊但是台電也會用到天然氣的發電都已經進到這個發電佔比都50%了都還會再更提高\n\n03:35.021 --> 04:00.388\n所以即刻起規劃科技化衛星天然氣的監管方案以強化監管的這個以強化這個監管我要求一個月內你提出建制時程的規劃安全不能靠口號也不能再等下一次的爆炸或洩漏才要再來做檢討好這個是不是先回應一下部長國營司人員署來是\n\n04:02.982 --> 04:15.734\n謝委員的這個的建議啦這個是新的方法只要有新的方法好的方法那我們來研理看看那一個月以後會給委員一個報告嘛就是看看包括這個衛星數據他發為什麼對這個議題\n\n04:18.076 --> 04:42.335\n我們高雄人非常有感2014年的這個凱旋路的氣爆案那也是這個油管的一個氣爆其實到現在為止如果我能夠用衛星它的範圍是更大的那所以這個部分要也謝謝部長您這麼明快的一個才事好我們來看國營事業的績效不應該犧牲基層\n\n04:44.416 --> 05:09.426\n這左邊這個報告是你們經濟部在113年國營私所提出來的未來國營事業未來10年的人力的嚴重斷層這這個表所呈現的是什麼國營事業員工的平均年齡是46歲中油是平均的年齡是47.8台電是46.3人力高齡化再加上外包比例過高\n\n05:10.646 --> 05:26.533\n所以導致什麼技術傳承有斷層安全操作當然就會出現缺口我永安林園兩大廠近五年內發生多起都是誰外包維修期間的異常事件\n\n05:27.613 --> 05:56.713\n險之風安全風險跟能力短缺這兩個雙重問題所帶來的這個公安事件所以國營師應該要思考國營事業真才是有別於公務人員的公職人員這很吊詭我們的禁用是比照公務人員但是呢當公務人員現在要這個調薪的時候我們國營事業這要我替國營事業所有的員工講個話他一定是比公務人員慢\n\n05:57.453 --> 06:17.039\n幅度也會比國營人員低那因為調薪又沒有一個機制每次都要在立法院不分藍綠的在這個預算會期當中的隔年要大力疾呼你看今年什麼時候才核定這個年終獎金的績效去年就在喊啊喊到現在四五月才核定啊\n\n06:17.879 --> 06:44.189\n公務人員早就年初1月1號就開始執行甚至你公布的時候還可以追溯所以你說你要徵才國營事業的禁用比照公務人員不好意思他的績效又要比照企業所以你民間企業在徵才你一定要維持企業的競爭力必須提高誘因這幾個誘因福利薪資勞動環境還要加上科技化的應用\n\n06:44.969 --> 07:04.543\n本身我們的相關的智慧化的決策智慧化的一個這個經營管理這都應該要納入這也是誘因啊才能吸引我們國營事業才能吸引優秀人才來提升企業的競爭力好所以我具體要求優化國營事業能力結構與勞動條件第一個經濟部應建立國營事業職災通報與追蹤系統所有的爆炸洩漏墜落事件及時揭露\n\n07:13.729 --> 07:29.270\n我講的是經濟部部本部現在是各國營事業自己有自己跟地方的回報跟縣市政府的回報那這是每個國營事業都有建立起這個機制沒有各區自己經營好像中油我其實就是要額露一下\n\n07:30.832 --> 07:47.632\n中遊在地方上也記取這些公安事件所以其實董事長這邊我要給你鼓勵一下給你拍手一下你對於只要任何的公安事件其實都會及時的跟我們地方的這些意見領袖做通報至少我本席也有收到\n\n07:48.553 --> 08:17.893\n那但是台電那就要加把勁了好在我相信總經理董事長你們也非常非常辛苦這實在是我實在也民眾的安全包括我們人員的政策的執行其實台電是真的很辛苦但是我還是得要求所以像這個的這個部分但是我要講跟部長知道你這些的追蹤系統都是各工廠自己跟各地方自己不同我覺得應該不管不同一\n\n08:18.913 --> 08:39.838\n你自己要掌握啊要不然公安事件你們通通都是在背後收尾啊然後大家都急救張啊所以這個我覺得要求部本部自己本身要有國營事業職災通報及追蹤系統的及時揭露那第二個請國營市一個月內會同國營事業跟工會討論兩件事情第一個強化國營事業的競爭力研討國營事業\n\n08:43.240 --> 08:59.173\n職工福利與公職人員薪酬條件脫鉤方案你禁用跟福利都比照公務人員啊那不對啊那但是你的企業公務人員不用要求企業的這種的績效你卻要求他績效啊那你相關的這個他們站在第一線國營事業除了台堂之外其實都是高危險的工作\n\n09:08.081 --> 09:31.655\n你包括連台電要出海那個離岸風電他們也要工作船那也屬於危險不是只有在陸地上在山區電線港爬那中油更不在話下了每一個他就在都是在高危險的石化廠區所以這個他的薪資他的職工福利一定要脫鉤公務人員的薪酬這個我要求那請國營市這邊也當然請部長你才是\n\n09:34.616 --> 09:55.424\n這以及針對特定第一線工作人員因提撥職災意外津貼的補貼這說起來很好玩喔這個工會啊的會員的錢都是會員自己繳他們針對就終有我了解其實工會都有提供他們另外在勞健保之外還有一個職災的一個補貼\n\n09:57.304 --> 10:16.189\n中油本公司有沒有沒有台電本公司有沒有沒有台水有沒有他們也都是在地底下在專刊啊等等啊沒有欸所以我這邊要求部本部這邊尤其國營司主導在一個月內會同國營司公會要針對這兩項也要來做一個這個討論\n\n10:20.130 --> 10:46.878\n這就是你的勞工條件啊這就是你的這個福利條件啊甚至你的這個為了增加國營事業的競爭你的科技化的部分你需要工會怎麼的替你做宣導跟人員訓練啊這在在都是對於你國營事業到底是不是全台人員命脈你有沒有重視國營事業他是全台的人員命脈這件事情的重要性好所以最後結語\n\n10:48.628 --> 11:03.175\n國營事業的改革回到三個安全是底線員工是根本地方是責任所以國營事業不能只是賺錢的公司更是國家的延伸我要求經濟部自己提案修改國營事業管理法第13條\n\n11:04.275 --> 11:08.460\nKPI不只是盈餘而是國營事業管理法第3條要納入KPI要納入安全勞工跟地方貢獻唯有這樣國營事業才不只是國家資產更是人民信任的力量好在這邊我漏了一下齁\n\n11:20.934 --> 11:45.770\n就是說在國營事業是根本效益要回到地方所以呢像我高雄擁有永安LNG的接收站大林電廠、興達電廠、林園石化基地是全台人員的命脈地方回饋不能只有回饋金我要強調這一點你們不能只有回饋金還要建置制度性的合作帶動地方發展讓國營企業不再是嫌惡設施將\n\n11:47.591 --> 12:08.900\n具體要求將地方回饋納入公司治理的ESG報告三項第一個國營事業董事會的營運目標中因名列在地採購金額第二個地方稅收的貢獻第三合作學校的訓練人數尤其合作學校的訓練人數我非常感謝中油跟台電這要讓部長知道\n\n12:10.400 --> 12:34.651\n在高雄市的所有的產學合作中油的在林園廠的產學專班我非常感謝中油是把他真的明確的納入他人才培養的基地這我非常的感謝包括在小港我的這個中油也是有這個中油的這個產學專班也是一樣再來台電我也是非常的感謝你們那個幾乎辦的績效都非常的好\n\n12:36.072 --> 12:52.600\n這個學徒制的建制有在高中的階段的納入地方稅收的貢獻合作學校的訓練就應該納入公司治理的ESG報告第二個經濟部每年發布這是我要求的國營事業在地效益白皮書\n\n12:53.641 --> 13:09.457\n一切都公開接入高雄的採購金額投資項目跟就業創造你在在地啊我不要說你只有回饋啊制度性的合作來帶動地方發展你地方採購就要採購我高雄有人你就跟我高雄來做採購\n\n13:10.718 --> 13:38.652\n投資項目我們有的你投資了多少我高雄的公共建設跟我市政府合作就業創造本來就是應該如此所有的第三個要求重大建設如七階忍忍的再利用園區同步建立地方監測委員會保障資訊公開社會參與這種所謂重大你說你要把它當作壁嶺你反而會被攻擊你把它當作公共建設地方參與你就會一起成長\n\n13:39.772 --> 14:04.819\n好在這邊我不知道部長您就回答一下吧針對在人員這個國營師趕快的我對於人才人力結構跟勞動結構的部分第七頁這邊您回應一下好謝謝事實上我們現在執行的方向也跟委員的提醒是大致上一樣那尤其薪水的部分我們也有一些彈性像這一次公務員調薪3%但是我們\n\n14:06.119 --> 14:32.747\n國營事業是調了3.5%因為最近這些國營事業的同仁也真是非常辛苦那就像剛剛提到的我們新進人員可能要有一些機制嘛我們慢慢來調整這個方向是這樣部長我講的就是你現在能夠上升到部本部而且要制度化部本部對於國營事業對於質災的部分的通報系統的即時揭露部本部喔那國營是你一個月內對於國營事業跟工會要跟工會討論\n\n14:34.427 --> 14:53.065\n你的這個福利職工福利跟公職人的薪資要脫鉤你也當然但是我強調是跟國營事業跟工會一起討論把它制度建立起來好嗎我們是不是把這些制度的建立我們是不是一個月內把這個所有相關的資料報給我們經紀委員會然後給我們委員辦公室知道\n\n14:58.510 --> 15:09.390\n那請主席您是不是能夠接續採視一下我這邊眷對地方回饋的部分納入公司治理的ESG的報告有這三項也請他是不是能夠做研議呢\n\n15:12.420 --> 15:28.435\n在這個報告裡面一個月夠嗎這一個要將地方回饋納入公司自己的ESG報告包括在地採購地方稅收貢獻合作學校的訓練人數還有國營事業在地效益的白皮書還有重大新設地方監測的委員會\n\n15:29.736 --> 15:57.336\n再麻煩戴華你把這些一份資料給他們他們要做的相關分析相關資料給他們這樣才不會有漏掉的好謝謝主席然後最後請主席是不是也採視一下這個就真的經濟部提案你研議提案剛國營事業管理法的第13條裡面修正讓你的KPI要包含安全勞動地方貢獻及至正式的法治化之後就不用在那邊爭了\n\n15:58.597 --> 16:22.316\n我們是不是一併在這一個月內檢討出來說是不是有這個必要要把我們國營事業管理法的第13條來做修正然後讓他的KPI不只是盈餘而可以有包含到安全勞動地方貢獻這些部分我們一併在一個月把它提出我們的報告那該修法的我們再來修好不好謝謝感謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.858,"end":6.644,"text":"有請部長跟國務卿來 我們請部長跟國務卿"},{"start":12.438,"end":29.419,"text":"人員署也請上來好國營事業不只要賺錢更要顧安全顧員工顧地方好今天本席針對國營事業的改革要來跟這個部長跟國營事來做個"},{"start":32.26,"end":55.885,"text":"討論我們國營事業的改革不應該只有營運跟報表中油台電台水台糖這些國營事業是國家最重要的人員跟民生支柱最近因為人員價格的波動通膨的壓力淨零轉型的挑戰這些國營事業被要求提高營收降低成本但是忽略了三件事情安全勞動"},{"start":57.386,"end":85.894,"text":"地方責任營收住址可以美化我不說造假它可以美化安全事故卻不能說謊國營世界如果只看營餘忽視了安全跟人力最終損失的會是民眾的信任跟國家的根本好 我們話說天然氣的洩漏本席認為這不應該在永安這個地方當作單次的意外應該建立起長期制度性的監測"},{"start":87.094,"end":112.493,"text":"根據IEA這個國際組織在去年針對LNG甲烷外洩的國際報告IEA跟國內學者來比對衛星數據這個數據很有趣從去年年底到今年年初台灣的發電廠數字的被國際衛星偵測到天然氣溢散的"},{"start":113.374,"end":132.563,"text":"的這個數據我這邊都羅列出來2024 12月1號有一些2025 1月4號包括今年的1月12號1月4號到1月12號6天而已國際的這樣的IEA的利用衛星數據就可以偵測的到"},{"start":133.183,"end":151.315,"text":"而國內現有就是以物聯網偵測的系統卻未能同步偵測到異常這代表我國的天然氣安全的體系是有盲區的我點出來你們這個的缺失你們現在都是物聯網啊然後但是卻未能同步偵測到異常"},{"start":153.016,"end":167.935,"text":"所以人家是從去年年底到今年年初連這三次都有這樣的報告所以這個忙具要請部長跟國運司你們要去注意因為LNG天然氣的安全人員的安全是人員屬"},{"start":169.477,"end":190.619,"text":"你在主管好那所以呢天然氣的洩漏不應該是單次以外應該建立的長期制度性的監測所以本期要求應該要建立燃氣安全監管方案為了顧及環境保護及國人生命財產安全要求人員署因為是天然氣的主管機關"},{"start":191.52,"end":208.055,"text":"整合中油而中油是目前國內唯一進口天然氣的但是進來之後你會給民間譬如說新雄瓦斯啦所謂新自備的全國的瓦斯民生在用啊但是台電也會用到天然氣的發電都已經進到這個發電佔比都50%了都還會再更提高"},{"start":215.021,"end":240.388,"text":"所以即刻起規劃科技化衛星天然氣的監管方案以強化監管的這個以強化這個監管我要求一個月內你提出建制時程的規劃安全不能靠口號也不能再等下一次的爆炸或洩漏才要再來做檢討好這個是不是先回應一下部長國營司人員署來是"},{"start":242.982,"end":255.734,"text":"謝委員的這個的建議啦這個是新的方法只要有新的方法好的方法那我們來研理看看那一個月以後會給委員一個報告嘛就是看看包括這個衛星數據他發為什麼對這個議題"},{"start":258.076,"end":282.335,"text":"我們高雄人非常有感2014年的這個凱旋路的氣爆案那也是這個油管的一個氣爆其實到現在為止如果我能夠用衛星它的範圍是更大的那所以這個部分要也謝謝部長您這麼明快的一個才事好我們來看國營事業的績效不應該犧牲基層"},{"start":284.416,"end":309.426,"text":"這左邊這個報告是你們經濟部在113年國營私所提出來的未來國營事業未來10年的人力的嚴重斷層這這個表所呈現的是什麼國營事業員工的平均年齡是46歲中油是平均的年齡是47.8台電是46.3人力高齡化再加上外包比例過高"},{"start":310.646,"end":326.533,"text":"所以導致什麼技術傳承有斷層安全操作當然就會出現缺口我永安林園兩大廠近五年內發生多起都是誰外包維修期間的異常事件"},{"start":327.613,"end":356.713,"text":"險之風安全風險跟能力短缺這兩個雙重問題所帶來的這個公安事件所以國營師應該要思考國營事業真才是有別於公務人員的公職人員這很吊詭我們的禁用是比照公務人員但是呢當公務人員現在要這個調薪的時候我們國營事業這要我替國營事業所有的員工講個話他一定是比公務人員慢"},{"start":357.453,"end":377.039,"text":"幅度也會比國營人員低那因為調薪又沒有一個機制每次都要在立法院不分藍綠的在這個預算會期當中的隔年要大力疾呼你看今年什麼時候才核定這個年終獎金的績效去年就在喊啊喊到現在四五月才核定啊"},{"start":377.879,"end":404.189,"text":"公務人員早就年初1月1號就開始執行甚至你公布的時候還可以追溯所以你說你要徵才國營事業的禁用比照公務人員 不好意思他的績效又要比照企業所以你民間企業在徵才你一定要維持企業的競爭力必須提高誘因 這幾個誘因福利 薪資 勞動環境還要加上科技化的應用"},{"start":404.969,"end":424.543,"text":"本身我們的相關的智慧化的決策智慧化的一個這個經營管理這都應該要納入這也是誘因啊才能吸引我們國營事業才能吸引優秀人才來提升企業的競爭力好 所以我具體要求優化國營事業能力結構與勞動條件第一個 經濟部應建立國營事業職災通報與追蹤系統所有的爆炸 洩漏 墜落事件及時揭露"},{"start":433.729,"end":449.27,"text":"我講的是經濟部部本部現在是各國營事業自己有自己跟地方的回報跟縣市政府的回報那這是每個國營事業都有建立起這個機制沒有各區自己經營好像中油我其實就是要額露一下"},{"start":450.832,"end":467.632,"text":"中遊在地方上也記取這些公安事件所以其實董事長這邊我要給你鼓勵一下給你拍手一下你對於只要任何的公安事件其實都會及時的跟我們地方的這些意見領袖做通報至少我本席也有收到"},{"start":468.553,"end":497.893,"text":"那但是台電那就要加把勁了好在我相信總經理董事長你們也非常非常辛苦這實在是我實在也民眾的安全包括我們人員的政策的執行其實台電是真的很辛苦但是我還是得要求所以像這個的這個部分但是我要講跟部長知道你這些的追蹤系統都是各工廠自己跟各地方自己不同我覺得應該不管不同一"},{"start":498.913,"end":519.838,"text":"你自己要掌握啊要不然公安事件你們通通都是在背後收尾啊然後大家都急救張啊所以這個我覺得要求部本部自己本身要有國營事業職災通報及追蹤系統的及時揭露那第二個請國營市一個月內會同國營事業跟工會討論兩件事情第一個強化國營事業的競爭力研討國營事業"},{"start":523.24,"end":539.173,"text":"職工福利與公職人員薪酬條件脫鉤方案你禁用跟福利都比照公務人員啊那不對啊那但是你的企業公務人員不用要求企業的這種的績效你卻要求他績效啊那你相關的這個他們站在第一線國營事業除了台堂之外其實都是高危險的工作"},{"start":548.081,"end":571.655,"text":"你包括連台電要出海那個離岸風電他們也要工作船那也屬於危險不是只有在陸地上在山區電線港爬那中油更不在話下了每一個他就在都是在高危險的石化廠區所以這個他的薪資他的職工福利一定要脫鉤公務人員的薪酬這個我要求那請國營市這邊也當然請部長你才是"},{"start":574.616,"end":595.424,"text":"這以及針對特定第一線工作人員因提撥職災意外津貼的補貼這說起來很好玩喔這個工會啊的會員的錢都是會員自己繳他們針對就終有我了解其實工會都有提供他們另外在勞健保之外還有一個職災的一個補貼"},{"start":597.304,"end":616.189,"text":"中油本公司有沒有 沒有台電本公司有沒有 沒有台水有沒有他們也都是在地底下在專刊啊等等啊 沒有欸所以我這邊要求部本部這邊尤其國營司主導在一個月內會同國營司公會要針對這兩項也要來做一個這個討論"},{"start":620.13,"end":646.878,"text":"這就是你的勞工條件啊這就是你的這個福利條件啊甚至你的這個為了增加國營事業的競爭你的科技化的部分你需要工會怎麼的替你做宣導跟人員訓練啊這在在都是對於你國營事業到底是不是全台人員命脈你有沒有重視國營事業他是全台的人員命脈這件事情的重要性好所以最後結語"},{"start":648.628,"end":663.175,"text":"國營事業的改革 回到三個 安全是底線員工是根本 地方是責任所以國營事業不能只是賺錢的公司 更是國家的延伸我要求經濟部自己提案修改國營事業管理法第13條"},{"start":664.275,"end":668.46,"text":"KPI不只是盈餘而是國營事業管理法第3條要納入KPI要納入安全勞工跟地方貢獻唯有這樣國營事業才不只是國家資產更是人民信任的力量好在這邊我漏了一下齁"},{"start":680.934,"end":705.77,"text":"就是說在國營事業是根本效益要回到地方所以呢像我高雄擁有永安LNG的接收站大林電廠、興達電廠、林園石化基地是全台人員的命脈地方回饋不能只有回饋金我要強調這一點你們不能只有回饋金還要建置制度性的合作帶動地方發展讓國營企業不再是嫌惡設施將"},{"start":707.591,"end":728.9,"text":"具體要求將地方回饋納入公司治理的ESG報告三項第一個國營事業董事會的營運目標中因名列在地採購金額第二個地方稅收的貢獻第三合作學校的訓練人數尤其合作學校的訓練人數我非常感謝中油跟台電這要讓部長知道"},{"start":730.4,"end":754.651,"text":"在高雄市的所有的產學合作中油的在林園廠的產學專班我非常感謝中油是把他真的明確的納入他人才培養的基地這我非常的感謝包括在小港我的這個中油也是有這個中油的這個產學專班也是一樣再來台電我也是非常的感謝你們那個幾乎辦的績效都非常的好"},{"start":756.072,"end":772.6,"text":"這個學徒制的建制有在高中的階段的納入地方稅收的貢獻合作學校的訓練就應該納入公司治理的ESG報告第二個經濟部每年發布這是我要求的國營事業在地效益白皮書"},{"start":773.641,"end":789.457,"text":"一切都公開 接入高雄的採購金額投資項目跟就業創造你在在地啊 我不要說你只有回饋啊制度性的合作來帶動地方發展你地方採購就要採購 我高雄有人你就跟我高雄來做採購"},{"start":790.718,"end":818.652,"text":"投資項目我們有的 你投資了多少我高雄的公共建設 跟我市政府合作就業創造 本來就是應該如此所有的第三個要求 重大建設如七階忍忍的再利用園區同步建立地方監測委員會保障資訊公開 社會參與這種所謂重大 你說你要把它當作壁嶺 你反而會被攻擊你把它當作公共建設 地方參與 你就會一起成長"},{"start":819.772,"end":844.819,"text":"好在這邊我不知道部長您就回答一下吧針對在人員這個國營師趕快的我對於人才人力結構跟勞動結構的部分第七頁這邊您回應一下好謝謝事實上我們現在執行的方向也跟委員的提醒是大致上一樣那尤其薪水的部分我們也有一些彈性像這一次公務員調薪3%但是我們"},{"start":846.119,"end":872.747,"text":"國營事業是調了3.5%因為最近這些國營事業的同仁也真是非常辛苦那就像剛剛提到的我們新進人員可能要有一些機制嘛我們慢慢來調整這個方向是這樣部長我講的就是你現在能夠上升到部本部而且要制度化部本部對於國營事業對於質災的部分的通報系統的即時揭露部本部喔那國營是你一個月內對於國營事業跟工會要跟工會討論"},{"start":874.427,"end":893.065,"text":"你的這個福利 職工福利跟公職人的薪資要脫鉤你也當然 但是我強調是跟國營事業跟工會一起討論把它制度建立起來好嗎我們是不是把這些制度的建立我們是不是一個月內把這個所有相關的資料報給我們經紀委員會然後給我們委員辦公室知道"},{"start":898.51,"end":909.39,"text":"那請主席您是不是能夠接續採視一下我這邊眷對地方回饋的部分納入公司治理的ESG的報告有這三項也請他是不是能夠做研議呢"},{"start":912.42,"end":928.435,"text":"在這個報告裡面一個月夠嗎這一個要將地方回饋納入公司自己的ESG報告包括在地採購地方稅收貢獻合作學校的訓練人數還有國營事業在地效益的白皮書還有重大新設地方監測的委員會"},{"start":929.736,"end":957.336,"text":"再麻煩戴華你把這些一份資料給他們他們要做的相關分析相關資料給他們這樣才不會有漏掉的好 謝謝主席然後最後請主席是不是也採視一下這個就真的經濟部提案你研議提案剛國營事業管理法的第13條裡面修正讓你的KPI要包含安全勞動地方貢獻及至正式的法治化之後就不用在那邊爭了"},{"start":958.597,"end":982.316,"text":"我們是不是一併在這一個月內檢討出來說是不是有這個必要要把我們國營事業管理法的第13條來做修正然後讓他的KPI不只是盈餘而可以有包含到安全勞動地方貢獻這些部分我們一併在一個月把它提出我們的報告那該修法的我們再來修好不好 謝謝感謝主席 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":265,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（9時27分）有請部長跟國營司。"],["主席：請部長跟國營司。"],["林委員岱樺：能源署也請上來。"],["龔部長明鑫：林委員好。"],["林委員岱樺：國營事業不只要賺錢，更要顧安全、顧員工、顧地方，今天本席針對國營事業的改革，要來跟部長和國營司來做個討論。我們國營事業的改革不應該只有盈餘跟報表，中油、台電、台水、台糖這些國營事業是國家最重要的能源跟民生支柱，最近因為能源價格的波動、通膨的壓力、淨零轉型的挑戰，這些國營事業被要求提高營收、降低成本，但是忽略了三件事情：安全、勞動、地方責任。營收數字可以美化，我不說造假，安全事故卻不能說謊，國營事業如果只看盈餘，忽視了安全跟人力，最終損失的會是民眾的信任跟國家的根本。","話說天然氣的洩漏，本席認為，這不應該把永安這個地方當作單次的意外，應該建立起長期制度性的監測。根據IEA這個國際組織在去年針對LNG甲烷外洩的國際報告，跟國內學者來比對衛星數據，這個數據很有趣，從去年年底到今年年初，臺灣的發電廠數次被國際衛星偵測到天然氣逸散的情況，我這邊都羅列出來了：2024年12月1號有逸洩，還有2025年1月4號到1月12號6天。IEA利用衛星就可以偵測得到，而國內現在是用物聯網偵測系統，卻未能同步偵測到異常，這代表我國的天然氣安全體系是有盲區的。我點出來你們的缺失，現在都是物聯網，但是卻未能同步偵測到異常，人家是從去年年底到今年年初，連著三次都有這樣的報告，這個盲區請部長跟國營司要去注意，因為LNG天然氣的安全、能源安全是能源署在主管。","天然氣的洩漏不應該是單次意外，應該建立長期制度性的監測，因此本席要求應該要建立燃氣安全監管方案，為了顧及環境保護及國人生命財產的安全，要求天然氣主管機關能源署整合中油，而中油是目前國內唯一進口天然氣的公司，但是進來之後會給民間譬如欣雄瓦斯等欣字輩全國的瓦斯，因為民生在用，但是台電也會用到天然氣的發電，發電占比都已經50%了，還可能更高。所以即刻起規劃科技化衛星天然氣的監管方案，以強化監管，我要求一個月內提出建置時程的規劃。安全不能靠口號，也不能再等下一次的爆炸或洩漏才要來檢討，關於這個是不是先回應一下？請部長、國營司、能源署。"],["龔部長明鑫：謝謝委員的建議，這個是新的方法。"],["林委員岱樺：是的。"],["龔部長明鑫：只要有新的方法、好的方法，我們來研擬看看，那一個月以後會給委員一個報告，就是看看適不適合做或怎麼做。"],["林委員岱樺：好，為什麼我們高雄人對衛星數據這個議題非常有感？因為2014年發生的凱旋路氣爆案也是油管的氣爆，其實到現在為止，如果能夠用衛星，它的範圍是更大的，這個部分也謝謝部長這麼明快的裁示。我們來看「國營事業的績效不應犧牲基層」，左邊這個報告是你們經濟部國營司在113年所提出來的，國營事業未來10年人力嚴重斷層，這個表所呈現的是什麼？國營事業員工平均年齡是46歲，中油的平均年齡是47.8，台電是46.3。人力高齡化加上外包比例過高，導致技術傳承有斷層，安全操作當然就會出現缺口。永安、林園兩大廠近5年內發生多起外包維修期間的異常事件，顯是「安全風險」與「人力短缺」這兩個雙重問題所帶來的工安事件。","國營司應思考國營事業徵才有別於公職人員，這很弔詭，進用是比照公務人員，但當公務人員現在要調薪的時候，我們要替國營事業所有的員工講話，他們一定是比公務人員慢，幅度也會比國營人員低。調薪又沒有一個機制，每次都要在立法院不分藍綠地於預算會期的隔年、要大力疾呼，你看今年什麼時候才核定年終獎金、績效部分？去年就在喊啊！喊到現在4、5月才核定。公務人員年初於1月1號早就開始執行了，甚至公布的時候還可以追溯。所以你說要徵才、國營事業的進用比照公務人員，不好意思！他的績效又要比照企業，所以要像民間企業徵才一樣，一定要維持企業競爭力，必須提高誘因，這幾個誘因──福利、薪資、勞動環境，還要加上科技化應用，我們本身相關的智慧化決策、智慧化的經營管理都應該納入，這也是誘因，國營事業才能吸引優秀人才，來提升企業的競爭力。","所以我具體要求：優化國營事業人力結構與勞動條件。第一個，經濟部應建立「國營事業職災通報與追蹤系統」，所有爆炸、洩漏、墜落事件即時揭露。我講的是經濟部本部，現在是各國營事業有自己跟地方的回報、跟縣市政府的回報，那是不是每個國營事業都有建立起這個機制？沒有，各區自己經營。像中油，我其實就是要誇它一下，中油在地方上也記取這些工安事件的教訓，所以我要給董事長鼓勵一下，給你拍手一下，你對於任何工安事件其實都會即時跟我們地方的意見領袖通報，至少本席也有收到。但是台電就要加把勁了，我相信總經理、董事長你們也非常非常辛苦，我實在也……民眾安全，包括能源政策的執行，其實台電是真的很辛苦，但我還是得要求，像這個部分。但是我要講，讓部長知道，你這些追蹤系統，都是各工廠自己跟各地方……自己不統……我覺得應該部本部統一，你自己要掌握啊！要不然工安事件，你們通通都是在背後收尾，然後大家都急就章。所以這個我要求，部本部自己本身要有「國營事業職災通報與追蹤系統」即時揭露。","第二個，請國營司一個月內會同國營事業及工會討論兩件事情，首先，強化國營事業競爭力，研討國營事業職工福利與公職人員薪酬條件脫鉤的方案。你進用跟福利都比照公務人員，那不對啊！公務人員不用要求企業的這種績效，你卻要要求他績效啊！他們站在第一線，國營事業除了台糖之外，其實都是高危險的工作，包括連台電要出海，那個離岸風電，他們也要有工作船，那也屬於危險的，不是只有在陸地上，在山區電線桿爬耶！而中油更不在話下了，每一個都是在高危險的石化廠區。所以他的薪資、職工福利一定要與公務人員的薪酬脫鉤，這個我要求，請國營司這邊，當然也請部長裁示。","其次，針對特定第一線工作人員應提撥職災意外津貼補助。這說起來很好玩，工會的錢都是會員自己繳，就中油，我的了解是，其實工會都有提供他們在勞健保之外，另外還有職災的補貼，中油本公司有沒有？沒有。台電本公司有沒有？沒有。台水有沒有？他們也都是在地底下、在鑽勘等等，沒有耶！所以我要求部本部這邊，請國營司主導，在一個月內會同國營事業之工會，針對這兩項也要討論，這就是你勞工的條件、這就是你的福利條件。甚至為了增加國營事業的競爭力，你的科技化部分、需要工會怎麼替你宣導跟人員訓練，這在在都牽涉國營事業到底是不是全臺能源命脈、你有沒有重視國營事業是全臺能源命脈這件事情的重要性。","最後的結語：國營事業的改革，應回到三個原點，安全是底線、員工是根本、地方是責任。國營事業不能只是賺錢的公司，更是國家的延伸。我要求經濟部自己提案修改國營事業管理法第十三條，讓KPI不只針對盈餘，還要納入安全、勞工、地方貢獻，唯有這樣，國營事業才不只是國家資產，更是人民信任的力量。","在這邊我漏了一項，就是國營事業是根本……效益要回到地方，像我高雄擁有永安LNG接收站，大林電廠、興達電廠、林園石化基地，是全臺能源的命脈。地方回饋不能只有回饋金，我要強調這一點，你們不能只有回饋金，還要建置制度性的合作，帶動地方發展，讓國營企業不再是嫌惡設施。我具體要求：將地方回饋納入公司治理ESG報告，有三項：第一個，國營事業董事會的營運目標中，應明列在地採購金額、地方稅收貢獻及合作學校訓練人數。尤其合作學校的訓練人數，我非常感謝中油跟台電，這要讓部長知道，在高雄市所有的產學合作，中油在林園廠的產學專班，我非常感謝中油真的明確把它納入人才培養的基地，這個我非常感謝，包括在小港有中油的產學專班，也是一樣。再來是台電，我也非常感謝，你們辦的績效幾乎都非常好，學徒制的建置有在高中階段納入。地方稅收的貢獻、合作學校訓練都應該納入公司治理ESG報告。","第二個，這是我要求的，經濟部每年發布「國營事業在地效益白皮書」，一切都公開，揭露在高雄的採購金額、投資項目與就業創造。在地部分，不要說你只有回饋，制度性的合作帶動地方發展，你在地方採購，我高雄有的你就跟我高雄採購；投資項目，就我們有的，你投資了多少我高雄的公共建設、跟我市政府合作；就業創造方面，本來就應該如此。","第三個要求，所有重大建設案（如七接、冷能再利用園區）須同步建立地方監測委員會，保障資訊公開與社區參與。所謂重大，你要把它當作鄰避的，你反而會被攻擊；你把它當作公共建設、地方參與，你就會一起成長。","在這邊我不知道部長……您就回答一下吧！針對國營司，趕快地、我對於人才……"],["主席：請簡單回答。"],["林委員岱樺：人力結構與勞動結構的部分、第7頁這邊，您回應一下。"],["龔部長明鑫：謝謝，事實上我們現在執行的方向也跟委員的提醒大致上一樣。尤其薪水的部分我們也有一些彈性，像這一次公務員調薪3%，但我們國營事業調了3.5%，因為最近這些國營事業的同仁真的是非常辛苦。就像剛剛提到的，新進人員可能要有一些機制，我們慢慢來調整，方向是這樣。"],["林委員岱樺：部長，我講的就是現在要上升到部本部，而且要制度化。部本部職災通報系統的即時揭露，部本部喔！國營司一個月內對於國營事業跟工會，要跟工會討論，你的職工福利與公職人薪資要脫鉤。你剛剛也講了，但是我強調的是，跟國營事業、跟工會一起討論，把制度建立起來，好嗎？"],["主席：這些制度的建立你們是不是在一個月內把所有相關的資料報給經濟委員會，然後給我們委員辦公室知道？謝謝。"],["林委員岱樺：請主席是不是能夠接續裁示一下，我這邊針對地方回饋的部分納入公司治理的ESG報告有這三項，也請他是不是能夠做研議呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：一併在這個報告裡面……"],["林委員岱樺：好。"],["主席：一個月夠嗎？要將地方回饋納入公司治理的ESG報告。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，一併。"],["主席：可以喔！那就一個月把這兩份報告……好不好？"],["林委員岱樺：包括在地採購、地方稅收貢獻、合作學校的訓練人數，還有國營事業在地效益的白皮書，還有重大建設、地方監測委員會。"],["主席：再麻煩岱樺把這些資料給他們，他們要做的相關分析、相關資料請給他們，這樣才不會有漏掉的部分。"],["林委員岱樺：好，謝謝主席。最後請主席是不是也裁示一下？請經濟部研議提案修正國營事業管理法第十三條，讓你的KPI要包含安全、勞動、地方貢獻機制，正式的法制化之後就不用在那邊爭了，好不好？"],["主席：你們一併在一個月內檢討是不是有必要修正國營事業管理法第十三條。"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["主席：然後讓它的KPI不只是盈餘，還可以包含到安全、勞動、地方貢獻等這些部分，你們一併在一個月提出報告，該修法的我們再來修，好不好？"],["林委員岱樺：謝謝，感謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","我們請陳亭妃委員質詢。拜託議瑩，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-8","speakers":["陳亭妃","羅美玲","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","呂玉玲","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","賴士葆","葉元之","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","鄭正鈐","黃捷","張嘉郡","林楚茵","陳超明"],"page_start":333,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員王美\n惠等20人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人擬具「電\n業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具\n「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「電業法第七十一\n條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草\n案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院\n委員黃捷等22人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬\n具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「電業法第七十\n一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修\n正草案」案；二、審查： ( 一) 行政院函請審議「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員王美惠等20人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本\n院委員李坤城等18人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗\n華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本\n院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美\n玲等19人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬\n具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「天然氣事\n業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十\n五條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案；三、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委\n員王美惠等19人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人\n擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「自來\n水法第三條、第十六條之一及第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬\n具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「自來水法第\n九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案（合併詢答）","agenda_id":"1148901_00007"}}}