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那麼當然中國對於台灣這樣的一個長臂管轄的示範已經不是第一次但是我想沈伯陽委員這個恐怕會是第一個這樣的一個案例那麼現在甚至於開始有前立委在臉書\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 53.235, \"end\": 53.355, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 53.355, \"end\": 53.435, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 53.435, \"end\": 53.515, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 53.515, \"end\": 53.696, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 53.696, \"end\": 54.316, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 54.316, \"end\": 54.476, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 54.476, \"end\": 55.256, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 55.256, \"end\": 56.457, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 56.457, \"end\": 57.257, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 57.257, \"end\": 57.697, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": 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這大概幾個部分就這個動作來講我們把它解讀是中共刻意的羅織罪名來針對不同意見的人士來進行跨域的脅迫當然我們自由民主國家是不管政府或國人不會容許有這樣的一個脅迫動作那國際社會也不會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 91.937, \"end\": 92.558, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 92.558, \"end\": 93.058, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 93.058, \"end\": 93.279, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 93.279, \"end\": 93.419, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 93.419, \"end\": 93.799, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 93.799, \"end\": 95.161, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 95.161, \"end\": 95.661, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 95.661, \"end\": 95.862, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 95.862, \"end\": 95.982, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 95.982, \"end\": 96.082, \"score\": 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00:00:50,818\n我們國防外交委員會的沈博洋委員在昨天中國也就是重慶的公安部的一指這個所謂對外的新聞稿之後那麼他就正式被所謂中國來立案這種所謂的長臂管轄的部分喔那麼真的是影響到了那這個案子我想昨天相關單位包括國安局陸委會應該都有針對這個部分來做一個相關的這個討論是吧\n\n3\n00:00:53,235 --> 00:01:12,083\n對這案子我們很重視很重視那麼當然中國對於台灣這樣的一個長臂管轄的示範已經不是第一次但是我想沈伯陽委員這個恐怕會是第一個這樣的一個案例那麼現在甚至於開始有前立委在臉書\n\n4\n00:01:14,441 --> 00:01:31,116\n說如果沈伯陽委員只要一旦離開台灣那麼中國可能就會對他進行逮捕首先我想要詢問的是國安局對這個部分包括沈伯陽委員的人身安全有沒有再進行進一步的關心跟了解\n\n5\n00:01:31,937 --> 00:01:49,417\n好這大概幾個部分就這個動作來講我們把它解讀是中共刻意的羅織罪名來針對不同意見的人士來進行跨域的脅迫當然我們自由民主國家是不管政府或國人不會容許有這樣的一個脅迫動作那國際社會也不會\n\n6\n00:01:50,598 --> 00:02:18,448\n也不會認同這大概是基本問題的本質那至於委員本身的一個安全的問題那我們也會跟相關的警政單位在境內的時候要來注意也要避免到有在地協力者那會去對委員做一些跟蹤或是其他的一個脅迫的動作這個不能排除所以要做好相關的一個準備那另外就是境外的部分那境外的部分確實也要注意到因為中共他跟一些比較友好的\n\n7\n00:02:19,048 --> 00:02:38,914\n友中親中的國家那他可能有他的一些引渡的一個措施那這部分我也會建議那個鋪馬委員這邊可能也要稍微注意一下對於那些比較親中友中的國家還是海外先程還是要注意一下就是要提高警戒對要提高警戒但是局長會不會覺得在這個時刻就有人特別透過臉書\n\n8\n00:02:40,174 --> 00:02:58,676\n然後來散發這樣的一個訊息是不是有一種好像不管是幸災樂禍也好或者是藉機幫中國來進行恫嚇也好就是好像認為真的對外就宣稱好像中國對於台灣甚至於台灣的政治人物民意代表具有這樣的一個\n\n9\n00:02:59,837 --> 00:03:04,639\n境外的所謂長臂管轄的權利那麼這樣的說法是不是也會造成恐慌那也就是說有一個案例之後可以有更多的案例那麼這個對於國人來說當然我們一方面我們要提高警覺之外是不是這樣的言論也會有助於中國在用別的形式來恫嚇台灣人民\n\n10\n00:03:19,245 --> 00:03:42,322\n我想這部分委員說的沒有錯,事實上中共這樣的動作宣示性比較大,沒有實質的意義,因為它不可能能夠跨進到我們國家裡面來所謂的常備管轄。不過在國內的討論過程當中,我們還是會建議不要去落入中共所設的議題框架,\n\n11\n00:03:42,722 --> 00:04:00,302\n因為他操作這個議題進行這種跨境的脅迫目的就是在對台灣進行法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰那假如不小心落入中共的論述框架的話你是在助長他進行這樣的一個政治宣示達到一個恫嚇的效果所以這部分我們是強烈的不建議好\n\n12\n00:04:00,862 --> 00:04:22,131\n那麼其實這個部分可以看到中國用各種方式來對台灣進行所謂您剛說的法律戰輿論戰尤其是心理戰剛剛羅美玲委員所問的就是中國利用所謂偷渡的形式是不是也是另外一種滲透台灣的方式喔那麼剛剛我有特別聽到的是局長特別提到的是對於他們目前的樣態\n\n13\n00:04:26,553 --> 00:04:45,119\n如果是有特殊性的話你們會做其他專案的處理喔但是我再來幫這個局長來做一個脈絡上面的說明喔然後我們再來進行討論希望局長可以有更進一步的這個說明就是2024年的6月中國籍的前海軍的艦長這位軟性的艦長他是\n\n14\n00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,423\n駕著這個艦艇偷渡來台灣2025年的2月他服刑期滿之後就送到移民署來收容2025年的7月就今年7月他收容屆滿之後就變成是收容替代處分就在台灣生活可是在這樣的一個過程當中他竟然可以接受媒體的訪問把這樣的方式分享出去而且他所選擇的媒體是透過YouTube頻道也就是\n\n15\n00:05:17,697 --> 00:05:32,224\n事實上我說大家都知道啦中國的人除非翻牆啦當然說現在國台辦也直接示範翻牆給全中國人民看翻牆無罪只要有關係就沒關係但是顯然這種就是一種對外的宣示\n\n16\n00:05:32,924 --> 00:06:01,364\n表示說台灣今天你要想辦法偷渡而且你要在台灣輕輕鬆鬆的落地生活這個漏洞在這裡而且示範給大家看果不其然前兩天進週刊又報導了另外一位也是偷渡成功那麼他的說法甚至於是講說他本來要去菲律賓但是我們都知道以他的這個所謂他的配備根本到不了菲律賓甚至於檢查他的手機他是甚至於有去\n\n17\n00:06:02,518 --> 00:06:25,075\n查詢google過這一位軟性的這個所謂中國籍的軟性的海軍的將領軍官的這個來偷渡來台灣的方式那麼我要講的就是如果以目前這個狀態他的漏洞就存在於入出國籍移民法以及兩岸人民關係條例這個部分就是當他在服刑期滿可是當中國\n\n18\n00:06:26,296 --> 00:06:44,783\n講白了就是中國不想要把他帶回去那麼我們就送不了他所以這個案例他已經顯現出了法律上的漏洞那麼我想請問國安局跟陸委會跟移民署有沒有要就這個法律都把它補起來因為太多個案而且可能個案未來是一個一個應接不暇\n\n19\n00:06:47,304 --> 00:07:13,994\n就每一個個案的狀況可能都不盡相同那委員剛剛的一個諮詢主要的聚焦的議題是在於說在他服完刑期之後替代收容期間到底怎麼樣來做一些管理那這部分有跟夜管單位移民署做過一些討論那移民署確實有一些行為的規範那至於委員所提到的那個接受媒體的採訪的部分我們還要特別去了解目前的規範沒有限制這樣的一個動作\n\n20\n00:07:15,895 --> 00:07:44,163\n不過我們也有了解他採訪的過程他大概都主要是跟海外的中國民運人士在討論中國的人權壓迫相關的一個問題所以相關的資訊我們會持續來注意那另外在制度上有沒有怎麼樣來防弊的部分那這個部分我們再跟移民單位來做進一步的討論因為我剛剛也在跟羅美玲委員說明因為每個個案的狀況都不盡相同但是假如有比較微常異常的個案的話我們會特別來注意\n\n21\n00:07:44,383 --> 00:08:07,374\n好那麼如果是這樣的話局長認為現在這兩個個案有沒有違常有沒有異常的部分因為我知道局長現在當然面對這個法規上面確實沒有明確的規定的時候是很難去做判定的但是像這樣他可以直接大剌剌的接受媒體的訪問甚至於可以透過\n\n22\n00:08:08,935 --> 00:08:30,829\n這樣的方式變成是另外一種的教學就是入侵台灣的一個教學或者是滲透台灣的教學甚至於他可以在台灣趴趴走拿手機然後收集情資等等我說實話啦這樣子真的不用在野黨提什麼中配六改四啦用這個方法就可以直接入侵台灣而且留下來在台灣生活只要做幾年牢就好了\n\n23\n00:08:32,389 --> 00:08:46,520\n對完全了解委員的關切那事實上之前就一直有在注意這樣的一個狀況那針對替代收容期間的一些行為的規範那我剛才跟委員報告說明過我們再跟移民單位好那麼可不可以就是再找時間\n\n24\n00:08:47,901 --> 00:09:12,088\n針對這個部分把這樣的樣態我們除了做進一步討論之外也能夠對外做一個公告我相信相關的單位也知道這樣子什麼樣的樣態不可行那如果這樣的樣態不可行的時候我們到底要怎麼處理是再把他抓進去關嗎也不太可能台灣是一個自由民主的國家那讓他留在台灣是不是就會成為新的滲透者或在地協力者我希望國安局跟移民署還有委會要一起來把這個問題做一個解決因為問題已經出現了\n\n25\n00:09:17,493 --> 00:09:18,303\n好我們來注意好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n689\t25263\t謝謝主席 主席有請蔡局長來 局長請好 謝謝主席 林委員早局長早安喔 我想喔 這個有關於中國對於台灣的這個文攻武嚇之外現在是不是已經步步逼近到對於我們中華民國的立法委員的人身安全也遭到中國的鎖定喔 我們知道\n25883\t50818\t我們國防外交委員會的沈博洋委員在昨天中國也就是重慶的公安部的一指這個所謂對外的新聞稿之後那麼他就正式被所謂中國來立案這種所謂的長臂管轄的部分喔那麼真的是影響到了那這個案子我想昨天相關單位包括國安局陸委會應該都有針對這個部分來做一個相關的這個討論是吧\n53235\t72083\t對 這案子我們很重視很重視 那麼當然中國對於台灣這樣的一個長臂管轄的示範已經不是第一次但是我想沈伯陽委員這個恐怕會是第一個這樣的一個案例那麼現在甚至於開始有前立委在臉書\n74441\t91116\t說如果沈伯陽委員只要一旦離開台灣那麼中國可能就會對他進行逮捕首先我想要詢問的是國安局對這個部分包括沈伯陽委員的人身安全有沒有再進行進一步的關心跟了解\n91937\t109417\t好 這大概幾個部分就這個動作來講我們把它解讀是中共刻意的羅織罪名來針對不同意見的人士來進行跨域的脅迫當然我們自由民主國家是不管政府或國人不會容許有這樣的一個脅迫動作那國際社會也不會\n110598\t138448\t也不會認同這大概是基本問題的本質那至於委員本身的一個安全的問題那我們也會跟相關的警政單位在境內的時候要來注意也要避免到有在地協力者那會去對委員做一些跟蹤或是其他的一個脅迫的動作這個不能排除所以要做好相關的一個準備那另外就是境外的部分那境外的部分確實也要注意到因為中共他跟一些比較友好的\n139048\t158914\t友中親中的國家那他可能有他的一些引渡的一個措施那這部分我也會建議那個鋪馬委員這邊可能也要稍微注意一下對於那些比較親中友中的國家還是海外先程還是要注意一下就是要提高警戒對要提高警戒但是局長會不會覺得在這個時刻就有人特別透過臉書\n160174\t178676\t然後來散發這樣的一個訊息是不是有一種好像不管是幸災樂禍也好或者是藉機幫中國來進行恫嚇也好就是好像認為真的對外就宣稱好像中國對於台灣甚至於台灣的政治人物民意代表具有這樣的一個\n179837\t184639\t境外的所謂長臂管轄的權利那麼這樣的說法是不是也會造成恐慌那也就是說有一個案例之後可以有更多的案例那麼這個對於國人來說當然我們一方面我們要提高警覺之外是不是這樣的言論也會有助於中國在用別的形式來恫嚇台灣人民\n199245\t222322\t我想這部分委員說的沒有錯,事實上中共這樣的動作宣示性比較大,沒有實質的意義,因為它不可能能夠跨進到我們國家裡面來所謂的常備管轄。不過在國內的討論過程當中,我們還是會建議不要去落入中共所設的議題框架,\n222722\t240302\t因為他操作這個議題進行這種跨境的脅迫目的就是在對台灣進行法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰那假如不小心落入中共的論述框架的話你是在助長他進行這樣的一個政治宣示達到一個恫嚇的效果所以這部分我們是強烈的不建議好\n240862\t262131\t那麼其實這個部分可以看到中國用各種方式來對台灣進行所謂您剛說的法律戰 輿論戰尤其是心理戰剛剛羅美玲委員所問的就是中國利用所謂偷渡的形式是不是也是另外一種滲透台灣的方式喔那麼剛剛我有特別聽到的是局長特別提到的是對於他們目前的樣態\n266553\t285119\t如果是有特殊性的話你們會做其他專案的處理喔但是我再來幫這個局長來做一個脈絡上面的說明喔然後我們再來進行討論希望局長可以有更進一步的這個說明就是2024年的6月中國籍的前海軍的艦長這位軟性的艦長他是\n288800\t293423\t駕著這個艦艇偷渡來台灣2025年的2月他服刑期滿之後就送到移民署來收容2025年的7月就今年7月他收容屆滿之後就變成是收容替代處分就在台灣生活可是在這樣的一個過程當中他竟然可以接受媒體的訪問把這樣的方式分享出去而且他所選擇的媒體是透過YouTube頻道也就是\n317697\t332224\t事實上我說大家都知道啦中國的人除非翻牆啦當然說現在國台辦也直接示範翻牆給全中國人民看翻牆無罪只要有關係就沒關係但是顯然這種就是一種對外的宣示\n332924\t361364\t表示說台灣今天你要想辦法偷渡而且你要在台灣輕輕鬆鬆的落地生活這個漏洞在這裡而且示範給大家看果不其然前兩天進週刊又報導了另外一位也是偷渡成功那麼他的說法甚至於是講說他本來要去菲律賓但是我們都知道以他的這個所謂他的配備根本到不了菲律賓甚至於檢查他的手機他是甚至於有去\n362518\t385075\t查詢google過這一位軟性的這個所謂中國籍的軟性的海軍的將領軍官的這個來偷渡來台灣的方式那麼我要講的就是如果以目前這個狀態他的漏洞就存在於入出國籍移民法以及兩岸人民關係條例這個部分就是當他在服刑期滿可是當中國\n386296\t404783\t講白了就是中國不想要把他帶回去那麼我們就送不了他所以這個案例他已經顯現出了法律上的漏洞那麼我想請問國安局跟陸委會跟移民署有沒有要就這個法律都把它補起來因為太多個案而且可能個案未來是一個一個應接不暇\n407304\t433994\t就每一個個案的狀況可能都不盡相同那委員剛剛的一個諮詢主要的聚焦的議題是在於說在他服完刑期之後替代收容期間到底怎麼樣來做一些管理那這部分有跟夜管單位移民署做過一些討論那移民署確實有一些行為的規範那至於委員所提到的那個接受媒體的採訪的部分我們還要特別去了解目前的規範沒有限制這樣的一個動作\n435895\t464163\t不過我們也有了解他採訪的過程他大概都主要是跟海外的中國民運人士在討論中國的人權壓迫相關的一個問題所以相關的資訊我們會持續來注意那另外在制度上有沒有怎麼樣來防弊的部分那這個部分我們再跟移民單位來做進一步的討論因為我剛剛也在跟羅美玲委員說明因為每個個案的狀況都不盡相同但是假如有比較微常異常的個案的話我們會特別來注意\n464383\t487374\t好那麼如果是這樣的話局長認為現在這兩個個案有沒有違常有沒有異常的部分因為我知道局長現在當然面對這個法規上面確實沒有明確的規定的時候是很難去做判定的但是像這樣他可以直接大剌剌的接受媒體的訪問甚至於可以透過\n488935\t510829\t這樣的方式變成是另外一種的教學就是入侵台灣的一個教學或者是滲透台灣的教學甚至於他可以在台灣趴趴走拿手機然後收集情資等等我說實話啦這樣子真的不用在野黨提什麼中配六改四啦用這個方法就可以直接入侵台灣而且留下來在台灣生活只要做幾年牢就好了\n512389\t526520\t對 完全了解委員的關切那事實上之前就一直有在注意這樣的一個狀況那針對替代收容期間的一些行為的規範那我剛才跟委員報告說明過我們再跟移民單位好 那麼可不可以就是再找時間\n527901\t552088\t針對這個部分把這樣的樣態我們除了做進一步討論之外也能夠對外做一個公告我相信相關的單位也知道這樣子什麼樣的樣態不可行那如果這樣的樣態不可行的時候我們到底要怎麼處理是再把他抓進去關嗎也不太可能台灣是一個自由民主的國家那讓他留在台灣是不是就會成為新的滲透者或在地協力者我希望國安局跟移民署還有委會要一起來把這個問題做一個解決因為問題已經出現了\n557493\t558303\t好 我們來注意好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請蔡局長來 局長請好 謝謝主席 林委員早局長早安喔 我想喔 這個有關於中國對於台灣的這個文攻武嚇之外現在是不是已經步步逼近到對於我們中華民國的立法委員的人身安全也遭到中國的鎖定喔 我們知道\n我們國防外交委員會的沈博洋委員在昨天中國也就是重慶的公安部的一指這個所謂對外的新聞稿之後那麼他就正式被所謂中國來立案這種所謂的長臂管轄的部分喔那麼真的是影響到了那這個案子我想昨天相關單位包括國安局陸委會應該都有針對這個部分來做一個相關的這個討論是吧\n對 這案子我們很重視很重視 那麼當然中國對於台灣這樣的一個長臂管轄的示範已經不是第一次但是我想沈伯陽委員這個恐怕會是第一個這樣的一個案例那麼現在甚至於開始有前立委在臉書\n說如果沈伯陽委員只要一旦離開台灣那麼中國可能就會對他進行逮捕首先我想要詢問的是國安局對這個部分包括沈伯陽委員的人身安全有沒有再進行進一步的關心跟了解\n好 這大概幾個部分就這個動作來講我們把它解讀是中共刻意的羅織罪名來針對不同意見的人士來進行跨域的脅迫當然我們自由民主國家是不管政府或國人不會容許有這樣的一個脅迫動作那國際社會也不會\n也不會認同這大概是基本問題的本質那至於委員本身的一個安全的問題那我們也會跟相關的警政單位在境內的時候要來注意也要避免到有在地協力者那會去對委員做一些跟蹤或是其他的一個脅迫的動作這個不能排除所以要做好相關的一個準備那另外就是境外的部分那境外的部分確實也要注意到因為中共他跟一些比較友好的\n友中親中的國家那他可能有他的一些引渡的一個措施那這部分我也會建議那個鋪馬委員這邊可能也要稍微注意一下對於那些比較親中友中的國家還是海外先程還是要注意一下就是要提高警戒對要提高警戒但是局長會不會覺得在這個時刻就有人特別透過臉書\n然後來散發這樣的一個訊息是不是有一種好像不管是幸災樂禍也好或者是藉機幫中國來進行恫嚇也好就是好像認為真的對外就宣稱好像中國對於台灣甚至於台灣的政治人物民意代表具有這樣的一個\n境外的所謂長臂管轄的權利那麼這樣的說法是不是也會造成恐慌那也就是說有一個案例之後可以有更多的案例那麼這個對於國人來說當然我們一方面我們要提高警覺之外是不是這樣的言論也會有助於中國在用別的形式來恫嚇台灣人民\n我想這部分委員說的沒有錯,事實上中共這樣的動作宣示性比較大,沒有實質的意義,因為它不可能能夠跨進到我們國家裡面來所謂的常備管轄。不過在國內的討論過程當中,我們還是會建議不要去落入中共所設的議題框架,\n因為他操作這個議題進行這種跨境的脅迫目的就是在對台灣進行法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰那假如不小心落入中共的論述框架的話你是在助長他進行這樣的一個政治宣示達到一個恫嚇的效果所以這部分我們是強烈的不建議好\n那麼其實這個部分可以看到中國用各種方式來對台灣進行所謂您剛說的法律戰 輿論戰尤其是心理戰剛剛羅美玲委員所問的就是中國利用所謂偷渡的形式是不是也是另外一種滲透台灣的方式喔那麼剛剛我有特別聽到的是局長特別提到的是對於他們目前的樣態\n如果是有特殊性的話你們會做其他專案的處理喔但是我再來幫這個局長來做一個脈絡上面的說明喔然後我們再來進行討論希望局長可以有更進一步的這個說明就是2024年的6月中國籍的前海軍的艦長這位軟性的艦長他是\n駕著這個艦艇偷渡來台灣2025年的2月他服刑期滿之後就送到移民署來收容2025年的7月就今年7月他收容屆滿之後就變成是收容替代處分就在台灣生活可是在這樣的一個過程當中他竟然可以接受媒體的訪問把這樣的方式分享出去而且他所選擇的媒體是透過YouTube頻道也就是\n事實上我說大家都知道啦中國的人除非翻牆啦當然說現在國台辦也直接示範翻牆給全中國人民看翻牆無罪只要有關係就沒關係但是顯然這種就是一種對外的宣示\n表示說台灣今天你要想辦法偷渡而且你要在台灣輕輕鬆鬆的落地生活這個漏洞在這裡而且示範給大家看果不其然前兩天進週刊又報導了另外一位也是偷渡成功那麼他的說法甚至於是講說他本來要去菲律賓但是我們都知道以他的這個所謂他的配備根本到不了菲律賓甚至於檢查他的手機他是甚至於有去\n查詢google過這一位軟性的這個所謂中國籍的軟性的海軍的將領軍官的這個來偷渡來台灣的方式那麼我要講的就是如果以目前這個狀態他的漏洞就存在於入出國籍移民法以及兩岸人民關係條例這個部分就是當他在服刑期滿可是當中國\n講白了就是中國不想要把他帶回去那麼我們就送不了他所以這個案例他已經顯現出了法律上的漏洞那麼我想請問國安局跟陸委會跟移民署有沒有要就這個法律都把它補起來因為太多個案而且可能個案未來是一個一個應接不暇\n就每一個個案的狀況可能都不盡相同那委員剛剛的一個諮詢主要的聚焦的議題是在於說在他服完刑期之後替代收容期間到底怎麼樣來做一些管理那這部分有跟夜管單位移民署做過一些討論那移民署確實有一些行為的規範那至於委員所提到的那個接受媒體的採訪的部分我們還要特別去了解目前的規範沒有限制這樣的一個動作\n不過我們也有了解他採訪的過程他大概都主要是跟海外的中國民運人士在討論中國的人權壓迫相關的一個問題所以相關的資訊我們會持續來注意那另外在制度上有沒有怎麼樣來防弊的部分那這個部分我們再跟移民單位來做進一步的討論因為我剛剛也在跟羅美玲委員說明因為每個個案的狀況都不盡相同但是假如有比較微常異常的個案的話我們會特別來注意\n好那麼如果是這樣的話局長認為現在這兩個個案有沒有違常有沒有異常的部分因為我知道局長現在當然面對這個法規上面確實沒有明確的規定的時候是很難去做判定的但是像這樣他可以直接大剌剌的接受媒體的訪問甚至於可以透過\n這樣的方式變成是另外一種的教學就是入侵台灣的一個教學或者是滲透台灣的教學甚至於他可以在台灣趴趴走拿手機然後收集情資等等我說實話啦這樣子真的不用在野黨提什麼中配六改四啦用這個方法就可以直接入侵台灣而且留下來在台灣生活只要做幾年牢就好了\n對 完全了解委員的關切那事實上之前就一直有在注意這樣的一個狀況那針對替代收容期間的一些行為的規範那我剛才跟委員報告說明過我們再跟移民單位好 那麼可不可以就是再找時間\n針對這個部分把這樣的樣態我們除了做進一步討論之外也能夠對外做一個公告我相信相關的單位也知道這樣子什麼樣的樣態不可行那如果這樣的樣態不可行的時候我們到底要怎麼處理是再把他抓進去關嗎也不太可能台灣是一個自由民主的國家那讓他留在台灣是不是就會成為新的滲透者或在地協力者我希望國安局跟移民署還有委會要一起來把這個問題做一個解決因為問題已經出現了\n好 我們來注意好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.689 --> 00:25.263\n謝謝主席主席有請蔡局長來局長請好謝謝主席林委員早局長早安喔我想喔這個有關於中國對於台灣的這個文攻武嚇之外現在是不是已經步步逼近到對於我們中華民國的立法委員的人身安全也遭到中國的鎖定喔我們知道\n\n00:25.883 --> 00:50.818\n我們國防外交委員會的沈博洋委員在昨天中國也就是重慶的公安部的一指這個所謂對外的新聞稿之後那麼他就正式被所謂中國來立案這種所謂的長臂管轄的部分喔那麼真的是影響到了那這個案子我想昨天相關單位包括國安局陸委會應該都有針對這個部分來做一個相關的這個討論是吧\n\n00:53.235 --> 01:12.083\n對這案子我們很重視很重視那麼當然中國對於台灣這樣的一個長臂管轄的示範已經不是第一次但是我想沈伯陽委員這個恐怕會是第一個這樣的一個案例那麼現在甚至於開始有前立委在臉書\n\n01:14.441 --> 01:31.116\n說如果沈伯陽委員只要一旦離開台灣那麼中國可能就會對他進行逮捕首先我想要詢問的是國安局對這個部分包括沈伯陽委員的人身安全有沒有再進行進一步的關心跟了解\n\n01:31.937 --> 01:49.417\n好這大概幾個部分就這個動作來講我們把它解讀是中共刻意的羅織罪名來針對不同意見的人士來進行跨域的脅迫當然我們自由民主國家是不管政府或國人不會容許有這樣的一個脅迫動作那國際社會也不會\n\n01:50.598 --> 02:18.448\n也不會認同這大概是基本問題的本質那至於委員本身的一個安全的問題那我們也會跟相關的警政單位在境內的時候要來注意也要避免到有在地協力者那會去對委員做一些跟蹤或是其他的一個脅迫的動作這個不能排除所以要做好相關的一個準備那另外就是境外的部分那境外的部分確實也要注意到因為中共他跟一些比較友好的\n\n02:19.048 --> 02:38.914\n友中親中的國家那他可能有他的一些引渡的一個措施那這部分我也會建議那個鋪馬委員這邊可能也要稍微注意一下對於那些比較親中友中的國家還是海外先程還是要注意一下就是要提高警戒對要提高警戒但是局長會不會覺得在這個時刻就有人特別透過臉書\n\n02:40.174 --> 02:58.676\n然後來散發這樣的一個訊息是不是有一種好像不管是幸災樂禍也好或者是藉機幫中國來進行恫嚇也好就是好像認為真的對外就宣稱好像中國對於台灣甚至於台灣的政治人物民意代表具有這樣的一個\n\n02:59.837 --> 03:04.639\n境外的所謂長臂管轄的權利那麼這樣的說法是不是也會造成恐慌那也就是說有一個案例之後可以有更多的案例那麼這個對於國人來說當然我們一方面我們要提高警覺之外是不是這樣的言論也會有助於中國在用別的形式來恫嚇台灣人民\n\n03:19.245 --> 03:42.322\n我想這部分委員說的沒有錯,事實上中共這樣的動作宣示性比較大,沒有實質的意義,因為它不可能能夠跨進到我們國家裡面來所謂的常備管轄。不過在國內的討論過程當中,我們還是會建議不要去落入中共所設的議題框架,\n\n03:42.722 --> 04:00.302\n因為他操作這個議題進行這種跨境的脅迫目的就是在對台灣進行法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰那假如不小心落入中共的論述框架的話你是在助長他進行這樣的一個政治宣示達到一個恫嚇的效果所以這部分我們是強烈的不建議好\n\n04:00.862 --> 04:22.131\n那麼其實這個部分可以看到中國用各種方式來對台灣進行所謂您剛說的法律戰輿論戰尤其是心理戰剛剛羅美玲委員所問的就是中國利用所謂偷渡的形式是不是也是另外一種滲透台灣的方式喔那麼剛剛我有特別聽到的是局長特別提到的是對於他們目前的樣態\n\n04:26.553 --> 04:45.119\n如果是有特殊性的話你們會做其他專案的處理喔但是我再來幫這個局長來做一個脈絡上面的說明喔然後我們再來進行討論希望局長可以有更進一步的這個說明就是2024年的6月中國籍的前海軍的艦長這位軟性的艦長他是\n\n04:48.800 --> 04:53.423\n駕著這個艦艇偷渡來台灣2025年的2月他服刑期滿之後就送到移民署來收容2025年的7月就今年7月他收容屆滿之後就變成是收容替代處分就在台灣生活可是在這樣的一個過程當中他竟然可以接受媒體的訪問把這樣的方式分享出去而且他所選擇的媒體是透過YouTube頻道也就是\n\n05:17.697 --> 05:32.224\n事實上我說大家都知道啦中國的人除非翻牆啦當然說現在國台辦也直接示範翻牆給全中國人民看翻牆無罪只要有關係就沒關係但是顯然這種就是一種對外的宣示\n\n05:32.924 --> 06:01.364\n表示說台灣今天你要想辦法偷渡而且你要在台灣輕輕鬆鬆的落地生活這個漏洞在這裡而且示範給大家看果不其然前兩天進週刊又報導了另外一位也是偷渡成功那麼他的說法甚至於是講說他本來要去菲律賓但是我們都知道以他的這個所謂他的配備根本到不了菲律賓甚至於檢查他的手機他是甚至於有去\n\n06:02.518 --> 06:25.075\n查詢google過這一位軟性的這個所謂中國籍的軟性的海軍的將領軍官的這個來偷渡來台灣的方式那麼我要講的就是如果以目前這個狀態他的漏洞就存在於入出國籍移民法以及兩岸人民關係條例這個部分就是當他在服刑期滿可是當中國\n\n06:26.296 --> 06:44.783\n講白了就是中國不想要把他帶回去那麼我們就送不了他所以這個案例他已經顯現出了法律上的漏洞那麼我想請問國安局跟陸委會跟移民署有沒有要就這個法律都把它補起來因為太多個案而且可能個案未來是一個一個應接不暇\n\n06:47.304 --> 07:13.994\n就每一個個案的狀況可能都不盡相同那委員剛剛的一個諮詢主要的聚焦的議題是在於說在他服完刑期之後替代收容期間到底怎麼樣來做一些管理那這部分有跟夜管單位移民署做過一些討論那移民署確實有一些行為的規範那至於委員所提到的那個接受媒體的採訪的部分我們還要特別去了解目前的規範沒有限制這樣的一個動作\n\n07:15.895 --> 07:44.163\n不過我們也有了解他採訪的過程他大概都主要是跟海外的中國民運人士在討論中國的人權壓迫相關的一個問題所以相關的資訊我們會持續來注意那另外在制度上有沒有怎麼樣來防弊的部分那這個部分我們再跟移民單位來做進一步的討論因為我剛剛也在跟羅美玲委員說明因為每個個案的狀況都不盡相同但是假如有比較微常異常的個案的話我們會特別來注意\n\n07:44.383 --> 08:07.374\n好那麼如果是這樣的話局長認為現在這兩個個案有沒有違常有沒有異常的部分因為我知道局長現在當然面對這個法規上面確實沒有明確的規定的時候是很難去做判定的但是像這樣他可以直接大剌剌的接受媒體的訪問甚至於可以透過\n\n08:08.935 --> 08:30.829\n這樣的方式變成是另外一種的教學就是入侵台灣的一個教學或者是滲透台灣的教學甚至於他可以在台灣趴趴走拿手機然後收集情資等等我說實話啦這樣子真的不用在野黨提什麼中配六改四啦用這個方法就可以直接入侵台灣而且留下來在台灣生活只要做幾年牢就好了\n\n08:32.389 --> 08:46.520\n對完全了解委員的關切那事實上之前就一直有在注意這樣的一個狀況那針對替代收容期間的一些行為的規範那我剛才跟委員報告說明過我們再跟移民單位好那麼可不可以就是再找時間\n\n08:47.901 --> 09:12.088\n針對這個部分把這樣的樣態我們除了做進一步討論之外也能夠對外做一個公告我相信相關的單位也知道這樣子什麼樣的樣態不可行那如果這樣的樣態不可行的時候我們到底要怎麼處理是再把他抓進去關嗎也不太可能台灣是一個自由民主的國家那讓他留在台灣是不是就會成為新的滲透者或在地協力者我希望國安局跟移民署還有委會要一起來把這個問題做一個解決因為問題已經出現了\n\n09:17.493 --> 09:18.303\n好我們來注意好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.689,"end":25.263,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請蔡局長來 局長請好 謝謝主席 林委員早局長早安喔 我想喔 這個有關於中國對於台灣的這個文攻武嚇之外現在是不是已經步步逼近到對於我們中華民國的立法委員的人身安全也遭到中國的鎖定喔 我們知道"},{"start":25.883,"end":50.818,"text":"我們國防外交委員會的沈博洋委員在昨天中國也就是重慶的公安部的一指這個所謂對外的新聞稿之後那麼他就正式被所謂中國來立案這種所謂的長臂管轄的部分喔那麼真的是影響到了那這個案子我想昨天相關單位包括國安局陸委會應該都有針對這個部分來做一個相關的這個討論是吧"},{"start":53.235,"end":72.083,"text":"對 這案子我們很重視很重視 那麼當然中國對於台灣這樣的一個長臂管轄的示範已經不是第一次但是我想沈伯陽委員這個恐怕會是第一個這樣的一個案例那麼現在甚至於開始有前立委在臉書"},{"start":74.441,"end":91.116,"text":"說如果沈伯陽委員只要一旦離開台灣那麼中國可能就會對他進行逮捕首先我想要詢問的是國安局對這個部分包括沈伯陽委員的人身安全有沒有再進行進一步的關心跟了解"},{"start":91.937,"end":109.417,"text":"好 這大概幾個部分就這個動作來講我們把它解讀是中共刻意的羅織罪名來針對不同意見的人士來進行跨域的脅迫當然我們自由民主國家是不管政府或國人不會容許有這樣的一個脅迫動作那國際社會也不會"},{"start":110.598,"end":138.448,"text":"也不會認同這大概是基本問題的本質那至於委員本身的一個安全的問題那我們也會跟相關的警政單位在境內的時候要來注意也要避免到有在地協力者那會去對委員做一些跟蹤或是其他的一個脅迫的動作這個不能排除所以要做好相關的一個準備那另外就是境外的部分那境外的部分確實也要注意到因為中共他跟一些比較友好的"},{"start":139.048,"end":158.914,"text":"友中親中的國家那他可能有他的一些引渡的一個措施那這部分我也會建議那個鋪馬委員這邊可能也要稍微注意一下對於那些比較親中友中的國家還是海外先程還是要注意一下就是要提高警戒對要提高警戒但是局長會不會覺得在這個時刻就有人特別透過臉書"},{"start":160.174,"end":178.676,"text":"然後來散發這樣的一個訊息是不是有一種好像不管是幸災樂禍也好或者是藉機幫中國來進行恫嚇也好就是好像認為真的對外就宣稱好像中國對於台灣甚至於台灣的政治人物民意代表具有這樣的一個"},{"start":179.837,"end":184.639,"text":"境外的所謂長臂管轄的權利那麼這樣的說法是不是也會造成恐慌那也就是說有一個案例之後可以有更多的案例那麼這個對於國人來說當然我們一方面我們要提高警覺之外是不是這樣的言論也會有助於中國在用別的形式來恫嚇台灣人民"},{"start":199.245,"end":222.322,"text":"我想這部分委員說的沒有錯,事實上中共這樣的動作宣示性比較大,沒有實質的意義,因為它不可能能夠跨進到我們國家裡面來所謂的常備管轄。不過在國內的討論過程當中,我們還是會建議不要去落入中共所設的議題框架,"},{"start":222.722,"end":240.302,"text":"因為他操作這個議題進行這種跨境的脅迫目的就是在對台灣進行法律戰、心理戰跟輿論戰那假如不小心落入中共的論述框架的話你是在助長他進行這樣的一個政治宣示達到一個恫嚇的效果所以這部分我們是強烈的不建議好"},{"start":240.862,"end":262.131,"text":"那麼其實這個部分可以看到中國用各種方式來對台灣進行所謂您剛說的法律戰 輿論戰尤其是心理戰剛剛羅美玲委員所問的就是中國利用所謂偷渡的形式是不是也是另外一種滲透台灣的方式喔那麼剛剛我有特別聽到的是局長特別提到的是對於他們目前的樣態"},{"start":266.553,"end":285.119,"text":"如果是有特殊性的話你們會做其他專案的處理喔但是我再來幫這個局長來做一個脈絡上面的說明喔然後我們再來進行討論希望局長可以有更進一步的這個說明就是2024年的6月中國籍的前海軍的艦長這位軟性的艦長他是"},{"start":288.8,"end":293.423,"text":"駕著這個艦艇偷渡來台灣2025年的2月他服刑期滿之後就送到移民署來收容2025年的7月就今年7月他收容屆滿之後就變成是收容替代處分就在台灣生活可是在這樣的一個過程當中他竟然可以接受媒體的訪問把這樣的方式分享出去而且他所選擇的媒體是透過YouTube頻道也就是"},{"start":317.697,"end":332.224,"text":"事實上我說大家都知道啦中國的人除非翻牆啦當然說現在國台辦也直接示範翻牆給全中國人民看翻牆無罪只要有關係就沒關係但是顯然這種就是一種對外的宣示"},{"start":332.924,"end":361.364,"text":"表示說台灣今天你要想辦法偷渡而且你要在台灣輕輕鬆鬆的落地生活這個漏洞在這裡而且示範給大家看果不其然前兩天進週刊又報導了另外一位也是偷渡成功那麼他的說法甚至於是講說他本來要去菲律賓但是我們都知道以他的這個所謂他的配備根本到不了菲律賓甚至於檢查他的手機他是甚至於有去"},{"start":362.518,"end":385.075,"text":"查詢google過這一位軟性的這個所謂中國籍的軟性的海軍的將領軍官的這個來偷渡來台灣的方式那麼我要講的就是如果以目前這個狀態他的漏洞就存在於入出國籍移民法以及兩岸人民關係條例這個部分就是當他在服刑期滿可是當中國"},{"start":386.296,"end":404.783,"text":"講白了就是中國不想要把他帶回去那麼我們就送不了他所以這個案例他已經顯現出了法律上的漏洞那麼我想請問國安局跟陸委會跟移民署有沒有要就這個法律都把它補起來因為太多個案而且可能個案未來是一個一個應接不暇"},{"start":407.304,"end":433.994,"text":"就每一個個案的狀況可能都不盡相同那委員剛剛的一個諮詢主要的聚焦的議題是在於說在他服完刑期之後替代收容期間到底怎麼樣來做一些管理那這部分有跟夜管單位移民署做過一些討論那移民署確實有一些行為的規範那至於委員所提到的那個接受媒體的採訪的部分我們還要特別去了解目前的規範沒有限制這樣的一個動作"},{"start":435.895,"end":464.163,"text":"不過我們也有了解他採訪的過程他大概都主要是跟海外的中國民運人士在討論中國的人權壓迫相關的一個問題所以相關的資訊我們會持續來注意那另外在制度上有沒有怎麼樣來防弊的部分那這個部分我們再跟移民單位來做進一步的討論因為我剛剛也在跟羅美玲委員說明因為每個個案的狀況都不盡相同但是假如有比較微常異常的個案的話我們會特別來注意"},{"start":464.383,"end":487.374,"text":"好那麼如果是這樣的話局長認為現在這兩個個案有沒有違常有沒有異常的部分因為我知道局長現在當然面對這個法規上面確實沒有明確的規定的時候是很難去做判定的但是像這樣他可以直接大剌剌的接受媒體的訪問甚至於可以透過"},{"start":488.935,"end":510.829,"text":"這樣的方式變成是另外一種的教學就是入侵台灣的一個教學或者是滲透台灣的教學甚至於他可以在台灣趴趴走拿手機然後收集情資等等我說實話啦這樣子真的不用在野黨提什麼中配六改四啦用這個方法就可以直接入侵台灣而且留下來在台灣生活只要做幾年牢就好了"},{"start":512.389,"end":526.52,"text":"對 完全了解委員的關切那事實上之前就一直有在注意這樣的一個狀況那針對替代收容期間的一些行為的規範那我剛才跟委員報告說明過我們再跟移民單位好 那麼可不可以就是再找時間"},{"start":527.901,"end":552.088,"text":"針對這個部分把這樣的樣態我們除了做進一步討論之外也能夠對外做一個公告我相信相關的單位也知道這樣子什麼樣的樣態不可行那如果這樣的樣態不可行的時候我們到底要怎麼處理是再把他抓進去關嗎也不太可能台灣是一個自由民主的國家那讓他留在台灣是不是就會成為新的滲透者或在地協力者我希望國安局跟移民署還有委會要一起來把這個問題做一個解決因為問題已經出現了"},{"start":557.493,"end":558.303,"text":"好 我們來注意好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":131,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（9時43分）謝謝主席。主席有請蔡局長。"],["主席：來，局長請。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席。林委員早。"],["林委員楚茵：局長早安。有關於中國對於臺灣的文攻武嚇，現在是不是已經步步逼近，我們中華民國立法委員的人身安全也遭到中國的鎖定？我們外交及國防委員會的沈伯洋委員，在昨天中國重慶公安部一紙對外新聞稿之後，就被中國正式立案。這種所謂的長臂管轄真的是影響到了，我想昨天相關單位包括國安局、陸委會，應該都有針對這個案子做相關的討論，是吧？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，這案子我們很重視。"],["林委員楚茵：中國對於臺灣這樣的長臂管轄的示範已經不是第一次，但是我想沈伯洋委員恐怕會是第一個這樣的案例，現在甚至開始有前立委在臉書說，如果沈伯洋委員一旦離開臺灣，那麼中國可能就會對他進行逮捕。首先我想要詢問的是，國安局對這個部分包括沈伯洋委員的人身安全，有沒有進一步地關心跟了解？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，這大概有幾個部分，就這個動作來講，我們把它解讀是中共刻意的羅織罪名，針對不同意見人士進行跨域的脅迫，當然我們是自由民主國家，政府或國人不會容許有這樣的脅迫動作，國際社會也不會認同，這大概是基本問題的本質。至於委員本身的安全問題，我們會跟相關的警政單位注意在境內的時候，也要避免有在地協力者會去對委員做一些跟蹤或是其他的脅迫動作，因為這個不能排除，所以要做好相關的準備。另外就是境外的部分，境外的部分確實也要注意到，因為中共與一些比較友中、親中的國家可能有引渡措施，我會建議Puma委員可能也要稍微注意一下，對於那些比較親中、友中的國家，海外行程還是要注意一下。"],["林委員楚茵：就是要提高警覺。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，要提高警覺。"],["林委員楚茵：但是局長會不會覺得在這個時刻有人特別透過臉書散發這樣的訊息，不管是幸災樂禍也好或者是藉機幫中國進行恫嚇也好，就好像對外宣稱中國對於臺灣，甚至於臺灣的政治人物、民意代表具有這樣的境外長臂管轄權力，這樣的說法是不是也會造成恐慌？有一個案例之後，可以有更多的案例，對於國人來說，當然一方面我們要提高警覺之外，這樣的言論是不是也會有助於中國再用別的形式來恫嚇臺灣人民？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，委員說的沒有錯，事實上，中共這樣的動作宣示性比較大，沒有實質的意義，因為他不可能跨境到我們國家裡面行使所謂的長臂管轄，不過在國內的討論過程當中，我們還是會建議不要落入中共所設的議題框架，因為他操作這個議題、進行這種跨境脅迫，目的就是在對臺灣進行法律戰、心理戰及輿論戰。假如不小心落入中共的論述框架的話，你是在助長他進行這樣的政治宣示，達到恫嚇的效果，所以這部分我們是強烈地不建議。"],["林委員楚茵：其實從這個部分可以看到中國用各種方式來對臺灣進行你剛剛說的法律戰、輿論戰，尤其是心理戰，剛剛羅美玲委員所問的就是中國利用偷渡的形式，是不是也是另外一種滲透臺灣的方式。剛剛我有聽到局長特別提到，對於他們目前的樣態如果有特殊性的話，你們會做其他專案的處理，但是我再幫局長做一個脈絡上面的說明，然後我們再來進行討論，希望局長可以有更進一步的說明。2024年6月中國籍的前海軍艦長，這位阮姓艦長駕著艦艇偷渡來臺灣，2025年2月服刑期滿之後就送到移民署收容，2025年也就是今年7月收容屆滿之後變成收容替代處分，他就在臺灣生活。可是在這樣的過程當中，他竟然可以接受媒體訪問把這樣的方式分享出去，而且他所選擇的媒體是透過YouTube頻道，事實上大家都知道中國人除非翻牆，當然現在國台辦也直接示範翻牆給全中國人民看，翻牆無罪，只要有關係就沒關係，但是顯然這就是一種對外的宣示，表示今天只要想辦法偷渡，要在臺灣輕輕鬆鬆落地生活，這個漏洞就在這裡，而且示範給大家看。果不其然，前兩天鏡週刊又報導了另外一位也是偷渡成功的，他的說法是他本來要去菲律賓，但是我們都知道，以他的配備根本到不了菲律賓，檢查他的手機甚至有查詢、google過這一位阮姓中國籍海軍將領軍官偷渡來臺灣的方式。","我要講的是，如果以目前這個狀態，它的漏洞就存在於入出國及移民法以及兩岸人民關係條例這個部分，講白了就是中國不想要把他帶回去，當他服刑期滿，我們就送不了他，所以這個案例已經顯現出法律上的漏洞，請問國安局、陸委會及移民署，有沒有要把這個法律漏洞補起來，因為太多個案，而且個案未來可能是一個一個應接不暇？"],["蔡局長明彥：每一個個案的狀況可能都不盡相同，委員剛剛的質詢主要聚焦的議題是在於，在他服完刑期之後替代收容期間到底怎麼樣來管理，這部分我們有跟業管單位移民署做過討論，移民署確實有一些行為規範。至於委員所提到的接受媒體採訪的部分，我們還有特別去瞭解，目前的規範沒有限制這樣的動作。"],["林委員楚茵：對。"],["蔡局長明彥：不過我們也有瞭解他採訪的過程，大概主要是跟海外的中國民運人士在討論中國的人權壓迫等相關問題，所以相關的資訊我們會持續注意。另外，這個部分在制度上怎麼樣防弊，我們再跟移民單位做進一步討論，我剛剛也有跟羅美玲委員說明，因為每個個案的狀況都不盡相同，但是假如有比較違常、異常個案的話，我們會特別注意。"],["林委員楚茵：如果是這樣的話，局長認為現在這兩個個案有沒有違常、異常的部分？因為我知道現在面對法規上沒有明確規定的時候，確實是很難去做判定的，但是像他可以直接大剌剌地接受媒體訪問，甚至於可以透過這樣的方式變成是另外一種教學，就是入侵臺灣的教學或者是滲透臺灣的教學，甚至他可以在臺灣趴趴走，拿手機蒐集情資等等，我說實話，這樣子真的不用在野黨提中配6改4的法案，用這個方法就可以直接入侵臺灣，而且留下來在臺灣生活，只要坐幾年牢就好了。"],["蔡局長明彥：我完全瞭解委員的關切，事實上之前就一直有在注意這樣的狀況，針對替代收容期間的一些行為規範，我剛才跟委員報告說明過，我們再跟移民單位來做討論。"],["林委員楚茵：可不可以再找時間針對這個部分的樣態，除了做進一步討論之外，也能夠對外公告，我相信相關單位也知道什麼樣的樣態不可行，如果這樣的樣態不可行的時候到底要怎麼處理，是要再把他抓進去關嗎？也不太可能，臺灣是一個自由民主的國家，讓他留在臺灣是不是就會成為新的滲透者或在地協力者？我希望國安局、移民署及陸委會要一起來把這個問題解決，因為問題已經出現了。"],["蔡局長明彥：好，我們來注意，謝謝委員。"],["林委員楚茵：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，局長請回。","接下來進行詢答委員馬文君委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-9","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","謝龍介","葉元之","賴士葆","郭昱晴","邱志偉","黃仁","沈伯洋","林憶君","陳冠廷"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局報告「近期東亞情勢變化對我國影響之研析」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00005"}}}