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{\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 776.712, \"end\": 776.732, \"score\": 0.002}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,954 --> 00:00:03,236\n之後就抽一筆你看,這樣就對了好,謝謝我們辛苦的張昌偉我請一下我們蘇仁市長請仁市長\n\n2\n00:00:15,086 --> 00:00:26,629\n委員長董事長你好修昇我也是剛才黃委員在質詢我很有共鳴的他在關心的整個議題我也是很關心的所以你跟教育部說的那個結果也送給我一份好不好我要呼應他的是他對於偏鄉\n\n3\n00:00:33,531 --> 00:00:48,593\n非常的關心這個其實長久的問題本席對於原鄉還有有一些都會去比較偏鄉的部分也是在一些專業的一些技術人員\n\n4\n00:00:49,995 --> 00:01:07,077\n的這個佳績這也是本席在關心的但是今天本席因為有幾個主要的重點要跟你討論所以這也請你給大家關心一下尤其是原鄉剛才跟黃委員所講的很類似的問題其實一直在發生尤其是一些專技人員\n\n5\n00:01:08,098 --> 00:01:28,175\n所以改天要這個部分跟您好好的討論但是我先跟你要一個資料剛才黃委員這邊講的你在幾個偏眼地區的合理化方案這個部分的計畫是不是可以給本席一份所以因為其實本席關心的東西也有一些是重疊的所以未來可能還要再跟您做更深入一點討論好不好\n\n6\n00:01:30,151 --> 00:01:47,546\n會後會給委員大概這個禮拜一定會給你所以那整個你說六七個縣市你跟他們有這樣子一個合理化方案那本席來看看我們是不是可以一起找出問題然後把一些東西至少中長期我們把它法制化這樣你們也省掉一些問題\n\n7\n00:01:49,327 --> 00:02:09,326\n所以今天我要跟你討論的也是軍公教待遇這個調整的一個法治化因為現在的一個狀況大家都會覺得有點黑箱但是我們有的東西法治化有一個依循做到一個公平的機制這樣大家可能不會比較不會經常有不同的想法我們可以有一個最大的公約數\n\n8\n00:02:10,487 --> 00:02:35,627\n所以今天整個就是這長期以來軍公教的待遇的調整比較沒有一個法制化的基礎程序上感覺不太透明所以呼應到今年在八月份的時候行政院就拍板說明年軍公教的人員不調薪教育部同事來舉辦的軍公教員工待遇調整的座談會\n\n9\n00:02:37,268 --> 00:02:59,139\n雖然你們說是傾聽基層凝聚共識但是很多教育團體都表達不滿他們說這根本不是協調只是摸頭大會來強調行政跟開放政府的時候大家會覺得這有點形式主義因為講了半天最後的結果離大家的期待有很大的一段距離所以軍公教其實在這個部分非常失望那這個\n\n10\n00:03:01,121 --> 00:03:14,139\n可能座談會本身問題不是那麼大但是呢大家會感覺背後有一點黑箱因為沒法治所以在這個軍公教待遇審議的委員會裡面其實是握有具體的建議權但是重點是\n\n11\n00:03:16,542 --> 00:03:37,763\n你們排除了這個基層代表的一個參與這個是有參與的這個人員他們所講的一個狀況那審議最後的結果是行政院在拍板那這個攸關十多萬軍公教人員的這個重要制度如果沒有法治基礎的運作那就每年就會有一些變化所以呢這個任市長為什麼要跟你請教兩個核心的問題\n\n12\n00:03:38,604 --> 00:04:04,233\n就是說這個條新誰來決定依據什麼標準來決定會這樣講就是說因為沒有目前這個條新的審議沒有明確的法條規範也沒有固定的計算公式條幅的大小常常都會看政府的所謂你們所說的財政跟政治氣氛你們常說財政不好就沒有辦法處理但是其實真正的核心是我們怎麼樣讓財政變好\n\n13\n00:04:06,215 --> 00:04:27,635\n但是一般百姓關心的就是法制化的基礎上大家對於未來比較可以有期待也可以了解未來的一些變化我們怎麼去因應我們不希望每年都看政府的財政跟政治的氣氛這樣的制度有點違反公開的原則跟我們民主政治也有點相悖所以\n\n14\n00:04:28,556 --> 00:04:43,464\n其實你們在去年有承諾2024年底你們完成這個條新的法制化但是我想你可能會告訴我說現在還卡在行政院我不知道是不是你待會可以給我一個回應我們看到這個感覺法制化的一個承諾\n\n15\n00:04:44,364 --> 00:05:09,589\n今天已經2025年底了好像又要跳票了對於軍公教的調整都這樣可以延宕我們政府怎麼樣呼籲民間企業來為勞工來加薪所以本席認為要恢復軍公教信任跟制度的穩定應該有兩個改革第一個是調新的法制化這樣能夠確保基層的權益第二個是機制要專業化確保能夠抗通膨\n\n16\n00:05:10,529 --> 00:05:37,827\n所以我簡單說明一下軍公教人員待遇調整的草案目前趕快送來立法院我們要明確規範審議委員會的組織職權跟運作方式而且要納入一定比例的基層代表讓軍公教人員能夠預期調薪的時間條件跟幅度不要年年在感覺上好像依賴高層的上億\n\n17\n00:05:40,749 --> 00:05:55,401\n接下來就是現行的制度要能夠採物價指數這個部分目前沒辦法好好的反映生活的成本所以過去13年我們的經濟成長已經達了43.04%但是民生物價漲了26.63%最低工資漲了51.56%但是軍工銷條薪剛14%而已所以實質的購買力都已經被通膨吞噬掉\n\n18\n00:06:07,270 --> 00:06:22,313\n剛才我們說的如果要加薪留財但是軍公教感覺上實質減薪這樣子的雙重標準大家很難依循所以今年那個調薪的法制化有沒有可能在這個會期送到立法院\n\n19\n00:06:24,516 --> 00:06:53,796\n謝謝委員給我這個機會來討論那個條帶法之外我們在上一年12月17號已經經過政務委員審議那現在坦白講就是躺在行政院欠缺最後一哩路現在就是lastmile現在就是lastmilelastmile有在行政院走好久喔因為最近國內大事情比較多所以我們一直在那裡cue那我們也期待說會一直發生的啦\n\n20\n00:06:54,757 --> 00:07:14,738\n我也希望他可以順順地來啦啊代理的就是剛才委員現在還在行政院對不對你去年12月就送出來現在還在行政院嘛對不對就來不及因為產線有限所以大家要去排感謝啦你替行政院講話啦但是拜託好不好請議長還是你們這裡\n\n21\n00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:40,346\n很多東西我聽起來大家都覺得卡在行政院這樣大家年年都在期待當時還可以真的完成最後一日路我三五五時都有去拜託啦但是齊見也比較多啦齊見的應該也不少所以我只好就是用等待來喚起我的夢想的實現\n\n22\n00:07:43,406 --> 00:08:00,511\n另外剛才委員關心的就是這個整個條帶法治法的部分我們大概未來會有一個諮詢委員會那諮詢委員會裡面大概會有你本身說的一定的代表基層的代表可以納入嗎差不多有兩層那有兩層是基層的代表\n\n23\n00:08:01,051 --> 00:08:14,366\n只有兩聲啦真正請聽我們幾十年的心聲啦剛才委員在提就是說每次的開會大家的表現的方式當然每一個人的期望值都不一樣\n\n24\n00:08:16,008 --> 00:08:32,160\n如果是一般的教師代表也希望大家每年都可以調然後今年在談的時候也有人說該要調10%20%啦每一個人期望你自己可以判斷啦你如果有法治基礎就有一個公約數嘛對不對\n\n25\n00:08:34,742 --> 00:09:02,283\n那個法治基礎是基本本但是大家標識意見所以我們會有一些參考的一個剛才委員有特別提到你講的是這個參考的價值嘛那個基本上十幾年來二十幾年來你們可以拿一個基準嘛這個部分應該是你們可以做的嘛所以今天本市的訴求就兩個啦一個法治化然後納入基層的這個代表的一個比例\n\n26\n00:09:02,863 --> 00:09:28,684\n好不好法治法可能我們還要等待但是麻煩你辛苦了啦這本來就是我應該要做的急件很多但是不能一直都卡在行政院院會啊委員會聽起來很多東西都在行政院要怎麼辦不過這樣也很好因為所以你就先不用解決這些問題是嗎院長有機會看到我所以我要去報告\n\n27\n00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:36,705\n但是我們還是以民為主啦主要這都是民間的人民的問題啦我們還是要積極來處理啦好不好拜託今天這兩件好不好這剛才黃國昌委員說的我們地方的這個家籍\n\n28\n00:09:45,551 --> 00:09:57,501\n這其實都是基層的問題你們覺得整個施政基層的問題我們很大一部分都沒有解決嗎我們一起加油都有解決只是說一直有新的議題好啦法治化啦好不好讓大家有一個公平的基礎好不好好\n\n29\n00:10:02,445 --> 00:10:25,139\n對我很快的跟你講一下這是跟你們內部有一點關係我知道你是資訊專業你們上個月發生一件系統測試的問題跟台北市政府你們在台北市政府你們把APP推播台北市停班停課瞬間在平台大家就很困惑剛剛你們台北市政府有說\n\n30\n00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:43,637\n是你們的人事總署和國家災害教育科學中心在民生市井公開資料平台上在測試但是重點是你們沒有說測試所以大家都叫是真的因為還在上班日結果你們就在那邊中央和地方就在說我們本來以前就有測試但是你們以前如果有測試\n\n31\n00:10:48,041 --> 00:11:10,335\n你們都有放測試的字眼但是這次在台北市上市的時候你們沒有幫忙測試那你說什麼地方自己要自動爬取錯誤任市長你資訊專業你覺得這樣會過嗎我跟委員報告一下以前寫的測試是用中文寫的測試現在要自動化以後我們寫TEST\n\n32\n00:11:11,015 --> 00:11:12,116\n所以這件事情後來我們有跟國科會去拜託負責的要去建構\n\n33\n00:11:29,306 --> 00:11:44,417\n一個正式作業區還有一個測試區讓大家正式的就不會去放掉了對啦董事長你想的會比較大啦想的會比較專業我跟你說很簡單的啦你說這個你有什麼Test大家自動跳過不好意思如果平常是大家看測試你這個要Test你也要確定每一個層級都知道Test是什麼意思我跟你說一個例子啦今天比較開心的啦不好意思\n\n34\n00:11:56,865 --> 00:12:01,568\n我們就用吳宗憲委員的很創意的做法我來跟你講一下今天我們在簽名要請教說怎麼有一個我自己以為那個是東南亞文但是我有確認我就問議事人員說這裡是什麼人結果是吳宗憲委員非常遵循院會的傳統所以他簽的字是直的我們平常都看委員會給我們的格式是橫的\n\n35\n00:12:23,539 --> 00:12:45,440\n我如果沒有問我可能剛剛可能有一個什麼人到最後自己確認光是我一個人這件事情就會產生這麼大的誤差了那些測試就不能說大家都要聽你好看你資訊專業一樣都可以了解所以這件事你跟台北市政府做這個這麼大條事後又說你要自己爬書這樣對不對要檢討好不好\n\n36\n00:12:47,842 --> 00:12:56,732\n所以重點就是安全告知跟雙重確認的制度你們要好好檢討事情發生以後中央跟地方一起來處理好不好加油謝謝謝謝林倩祺委員我不知道你台語說得那麼好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n954\t3236\t之後就抽一筆你看,這樣就對了好,謝謝我們辛苦的張昌偉我請一下我們蘇仁市長請仁市長\n15086\t26629\t委員長 董事長 你好修昇 我也是剛才黃委員在質詢 我很有共鳴的他在關心的整個議題 我也是很關心的所以你跟教育部說的那個結果也送給我一份 好不好我要呼應他的 是他對於偏鄉\n33531\t48593\t非常的關心這個其實長久的問題本席對於原鄉還有有一些都會去比較偏鄉的部分也是在一些專業的一些技術人員\n49995\t67077\t的這個佳績這也是本席在關心的但是今天本席因為有幾個主要的重點要跟你討論所以這也請你給大家關心一下尤其是原鄉剛才跟黃委員所講的很類似的問題其實一直在發生尤其是一些專技人員\n68098\t88175\t所以改天要這個部分跟您好好的討論但是我先跟你要一個資料剛才黃委員這邊講的你在幾個偏眼地區的合理化方案這個部分的計畫是不是可以給本席一份所以因為其實本席關心的東西也有一些是重疊的所以未來可能還要再跟您做更深入一點討論好不好\n90151\t107546\t會後會給委員大概這個禮拜一定會給你所以那整個你說六七個縣市你跟他們有這樣子一個合理化方案那本席來看看我們是不是可以一起找出問題然後把一些東西至少中長期我們把它法制化這樣你們也省掉一些問題\n109327\t129326\t所以今天我要跟你討論的 也是軍公教待遇這個調整的一個法治化因為現在的一個狀況 大家都會覺得有點黑箱但是 我們有的東西法治化有一個依循 做到一個公平的機制這樣大家可能不會 比較不會經常有不同的想法 我們可以有一個最大的公約數\n130487\t155627\t所以今天整個就是這長期以來軍公教的待遇的調整比較沒有一個法制化的基礎程序上感覺不太透明所以呼應到今年在八月份的時候行政院就拍板說明年軍公教的人員不調薪教育部同事來舉辦的軍公教員工待遇調整的座談會\n157268\t179139\t雖然你們說是傾聽基層 凝聚共識但是很多教育團體都表達不滿他們說這根本不是協調 只是摸頭大會來強調行政跟開放政府的時候大家會覺得這有點形式主義因為講了半天最後的結果離大家的期待有很大的一段距離所以軍公教其實在這個部分非常失望那這個\n181121\t194139\t可能座談會本身問題不是那麼大但是呢 大家會感覺背後有一點黑箱 因為沒法治所以在這個軍公教待遇審議的委員會裡面其實是握有具體的建議權但是重點是\n196542\t217763\t你們排除了這個基層代表的一個參與這個是有參與的這個人員他們所講的一個狀況那審議最後的結果是行政院在拍板那這個攸關十多萬軍公教人員的這個重要制度如果沒有法治基礎的運作那就每年就會有一些變化所以呢這個任市長為什麼要跟你請教兩個核心的問題\n218604\t244233\t就是說這個條新誰來決定依據什麼標準來決定會這樣講就是說因為沒有目前這個條新的審議沒有明確的法條規範也沒有固定的計算公式條幅的大小常常都會看政府的所謂你們所說的財政跟政治氣氛你們常說財政不好就沒有辦法處理但是其實真正的核心是我們怎麼樣讓財政變好\n246215\t267635\t但是一般百姓關心的就是法制化的基礎上大家對於未來比較可以有期待也可以了解未來的一些變化我們怎麼去因應我們不希望每年都看政府的財政跟政治的氣氛這樣的制度有點違反公開的原則跟我們民主政治也有點相悖所以\n268556\t283464\t其實你們在去年有承諾2024年底你們完成這個條新的法制化但是我想你可能會告訴我說現在還卡在行政院我不知道是不是你待會可以給我一個回應我們看到這個感覺法制化的一個承諾\n284364\t309589\t今天已經2025年底了好像又要跳票了對於軍公教的調整都這樣可以延宕我們政府怎麼樣呼籲民間企業來為勞工來加薪所以本席認為要恢復軍公教信任跟制度的穩定應該有兩個改革第一個是調新的法制化這樣能夠確保基層的權益第二個是機制要專業化確保能夠抗通膨\n310529\t337827\t所以我簡單說明一下軍公教人員待遇調整的草案目前趕快送來立法院我們要明確規範審議委員會的組織職權跟運作方式而且要納入一定比例的基層代表讓軍公教人員能夠預期調薪的時間條件跟幅度不要年年在感覺上好像依賴高層的上億\n340749\t355401\t接下來就是現行的制度要能夠採物價指數這個部分目前沒辦法好好的反映生活的成本所以過去13年我們的經濟成長已經達了43.04%但是民生物價漲了26.63%最低工資漲了51.56%但是軍工銷條薪剛14%而已所以實質的購買力都已經被通膨吞噬掉\n367270\t382313\t剛才我們說的 如果要加薪留財但是軍公教感覺上實質減薪這樣子的雙重標準大家很難依循所以今年那個調薪的法制化有沒有可能在這個會期送到立法院\n384516\t413796\t謝謝委員給我這個機會來討論那個條帶法之外我們在上一年12月17號已經經過政務委員審議那現在坦白講就是躺在行政院欠缺最後一哩路現在就是last mile現在就是last milelast mile有在行政院走好久喔因為最近國內大事情比較多所以我們一直在那裡cue那我們也期待說會一直發生的啦\n414757\t434738\t我也希望他可以順順地來啦啊 代理的就是剛才委員現在還在行政院對不對你去年12月就送出來現在還在行政院嘛 對不對就來不及因為產線有限所以大家要去排 感謝啦你替行政院講話啦但是拜託好不好請議長還是你們這裡\n436920\t460346\t很多東西我聽起來大家都覺得卡在行政院這樣大家年年都在期待 當時還可以真的完成最後一日路我三五五時都有去拜託啦但是齊見也比較多啦齊見的應該也不少所以我只好就是用等待來喚起我的夢想的實現\n463406\t480511\t另外剛才委員關心的就是這個整個條帶法治法的部分我們大概未來會有一個諮詢委員會那諮詢委員會裡面大概會有你本身說的一定的代表基層的代表可以納入嗎差不多有兩層那有兩層是基層的代表\n481051\t494366\t只有兩聲啦 真正請聽我們幾十年的心聲啦剛才委員在提就是說每次的開會大家的表現的方式當然每一個人的期望值都不一樣\n496008\t512160\t如果是一般的教師代表也希望大家每年都可以調然後今年在談的時候也有人說該要調10% 20%啦每一個人期望你自己可以判斷啦你如果有法治基礎就有一個公約數嘛對不對\n514742\t542283\t那個法治基礎是基本本但是大家標識意見所以我們會有一些參考的一個剛才委員有特別提到你講的是這個參考的價值嘛那個基本上十幾年來二十幾年來你們可以拿一個基準嘛這個部分應該是你們可以做的嘛所以今天本市的訴求就兩個啦一個法治化然後納入基層的這個代表的一個比例\n542863\t568684\t好不好 法治法可能我們還要等待 但是麻煩你 辛苦了啦這本來就是我應該要做的急件很多 但是不能一直都卡在行政院 院會啊 委員會聽起來很多東西都在行政院 要怎麼辦不過這樣也很好 因為所以你就先不用解決這些問題 是嗎院長有機會看到我 所以我要去報告\n570720\t576705\t但是我們還是以民為主啦主要這都是民間的人民的問題啦我們還是要積極來處理啦好不好拜託 今天這兩件好不好這剛才黃國昌委員說的我們地方的這個家籍\n585551\t597501\t這其實都是基層的問題你們覺得整個施政基層的問題我們很大一部分都沒有解決嗎我們一起加油都有解決 只是說一直有新的議題好啦 法治化啦 好不好讓大家有一個公平的基礎 好不好好\n602445\t625139\t對 我很快的跟你講一下這是跟你們內部有一點關係我知道你是資訊專業你們上個月發生一件系統測試的問題跟台北市政府你們在台北市政府你們把APP推播台北市停班停課瞬間在平台 大家就很困惑剛剛你們台北市政府有說\n626360\t643637\t是你們的人事總署和國家災害教育科學中心在民生市井公開資料平台上在測試但是重點是你們沒有說測試所以大家都叫是真的因為還在上班日結果你們就在那邊中央和地方就在說我們本來以前就有測試但是你們以前如果有測試\n648041\t670335\t你們都有放測試的字眼但是這次在台北市上市的時候你們沒有幫忙測試那你說什麼地方自己要自動爬取錯誤任市長你資訊專業你覺得這樣會過嗎我跟委員報告一下以前寫的測試是用中文寫的測試現在要自動化以後我們寫TEST\n671015\t672116\t所以這件事情後來我們有跟國科會去拜託負責的要去建構\n689306\t704417\t一個正式作業區 還有一個測試區讓大家正式的就不會去放掉了對啦 董事長 你想的會比較大啦想的會比較專業 我跟你說很簡單的啦你說這個 你有什麼Test 大家自動跳過不好意思 如果平常是大家看測試你這個要Test 你也要確定每一個層級都知道Test 是什麼意思 我跟你說一個例子啦今天比較開心的啦 不好意思\n716865\t721568\t我們就用吳宗憲委員的很創意的做法我來跟你講一下今天我們在簽名要請教說怎麼有一個我自己以為那個是東南亞文但是我有確認我就問議事人員說這裡是什麼人結果是吳宗憲委員非常遵循院會的傳統所以他簽的字是直的我們平常都看委員會給我們的格式是橫的\n743539\t765440\t我如果沒有問 我可能剛剛可能有一個什麼人到最後自己確認 光是我一個人這件事情就會產生這麼大的誤差了那些測試就不能說大家都要聽你好看你資訊專業一樣都可以了解所以這件事你跟台北市政府做這個這麼大條事後又說你要自己爬書這樣對不對 要檢討好不好\n767842\t776732\t所以重點就是 安全告知跟雙重確認的制度你們要好好檢討事情發生以後 中央跟地方一起來處理 好不好加油謝謝 謝謝林倩祺委員我不知道你台語說得那麼好\n","txt":"之後就抽一筆你看,這樣就對了好,謝謝我們辛苦的張昌偉我請一下我們蘇仁市長請仁市長\n委員長 董事長 你好修昇 我也是剛才黃委員在質詢 我很有共鳴的他在關心的整個議題 我也是很關心的所以你跟教育部說的那個結果也送給我一份 好不好我要呼應他的 是他對於偏鄉\n非常的關心這個其實長久的問題本席對於原鄉還有有一些都會去比較偏鄉的部分也是在一些專業的一些技術人員\n的這個佳績這也是本席在關心的但是今天本席因為有幾個主要的重點要跟你討論所以這也請你給大家關心一下尤其是原鄉剛才跟黃委員所講的很類似的問題其實一直在發生尤其是一些專技人員\n所以改天要這個部分跟您好好的討論但是我先跟你要一個資料剛才黃委員這邊講的你在幾個偏眼地區的合理化方案這個部分的計畫是不是可以給本席一份所以因為其實本席關心的東西也有一些是重疊的所以未來可能還要再跟您做更深入一點討論好不好\n會後會給委員大概這個禮拜一定會給你所以那整個你說六七個縣市你跟他們有這樣子一個合理化方案那本席來看看我們是不是可以一起找出問題然後把一些東西至少中長期我們把它法制化這樣你們也省掉一些問題\n所以今天我要跟你討論的 也是軍公教待遇這個調整的一個法治化因為現在的一個狀況 大家都會覺得有點黑箱但是 我們有的東西法治化有一個依循 做到一個公平的機制這樣大家可能不會 比較不會經常有不同的想法 我們可以有一個最大的公約數\n所以今天整個就是這長期以來軍公教的待遇的調整比較沒有一個法制化的基礎程序上感覺不太透明所以呼應到今年在八月份的時候行政院就拍板說明年軍公教的人員不調薪教育部同事來舉辦的軍公教員工待遇調整的座談會\n雖然你們說是傾聽基層 凝聚共識但是很多教育團體都表達不滿他們說這根本不是協調 只是摸頭大會來強調行政跟開放政府的時候大家會覺得這有點形式主義因為講了半天最後的結果離大家的期待有很大的一段距離所以軍公教其實在這個部分非常失望那這個\n可能座談會本身問題不是那麼大但是呢 大家會感覺背後有一點黑箱 因為沒法治所以在這個軍公教待遇審議的委員會裡面其實是握有具體的建議權但是重點是\n你們排除了這個基層代表的一個參與這個是有參與的這個人員他們所講的一個狀況那審議最後的結果是行政院在拍板那這個攸關十多萬軍公教人員的這個重要制度如果沒有法治基礎的運作那就每年就會有一些變化所以呢這個任市長為什麼要跟你請教兩個核心的問題\n就是說這個條新誰來決定依據什麼標準來決定會這樣講就是說因為沒有目前這個條新的審議沒有明確的法條規範也沒有固定的計算公式條幅的大小常常都會看政府的所謂你們所說的財政跟政治氣氛你們常說財政不好就沒有辦法處理但是其實真正的核心是我們怎麼樣讓財政變好\n但是一般百姓關心的就是法制化的基礎上大家對於未來比較可以有期待也可以了解未來的一些變化我們怎麼去因應我們不希望每年都看政府的財政跟政治的氣氛這樣的制度有點違反公開的原則跟我們民主政治也有點相悖所以\n其實你們在去年有承諾2024年底你們完成這個條新的法制化但是我想你可能會告訴我說現在還卡在行政院我不知道是不是你待會可以給我一個回應我們看到這個感覺法制化的一個承諾\n今天已經2025年底了好像又要跳票了對於軍公教的調整都這樣可以延宕我們政府怎麼樣呼籲民間企業來為勞工來加薪所以本席認為要恢復軍公教信任跟制度的穩定應該有兩個改革第一個是調新的法制化這樣能夠確保基層的權益第二個是機制要專業化確保能夠抗通膨\n所以我簡單說明一下軍公教人員待遇調整的草案目前趕快送來立法院我們要明確規範審議委員會的組織職權跟運作方式而且要納入一定比例的基層代表讓軍公教人員能夠預期調薪的時間條件跟幅度不要年年在感覺上好像依賴高層的上億\n接下來就是現行的制度要能夠採物價指數這個部分目前沒辦法好好的反映生活的成本所以過去13年我們的經濟成長已經達了43.04%但是民生物價漲了26.63%最低工資漲了51.56%但是軍工銷條薪剛14%而已所以實質的購買力都已經被通膨吞噬掉\n剛才我們說的 如果要加薪留財但是軍公教感覺上實質減薪這樣子的雙重標準大家很難依循所以今年那個調薪的法制化有沒有可能在這個會期送到立法院\n謝謝委員給我這個機會來討論那個條帶法之外我們在上一年12月17號已經經過政務委員審議那現在坦白講就是躺在行政院欠缺最後一哩路現在就是last mile現在就是last milelast mile有在行政院走好久喔因為最近國內大事情比較多所以我們一直在那裡cue那我們也期待說會一直發生的啦\n我也希望他可以順順地來啦啊 代理的就是剛才委員現在還在行政院對不對你去年12月就送出來現在還在行政院嘛 對不對就來不及因為產線有限所以大家要去排 感謝啦你替行政院講話啦但是拜託好不好請議長還是你們這裡\n很多東西我聽起來大家都覺得卡在行政院這樣大家年年都在期待 當時還可以真的完成最後一日路我三五五時都有去拜託啦但是齊見也比較多啦齊見的應該也不少所以我只好就是用等待來喚起我的夢想的實現\n另外剛才委員關心的就是這個整個條帶法治法的部分我們大概未來會有一個諮詢委員會那諮詢委員會裡面大概會有你本身說的一定的代表基層的代表可以納入嗎差不多有兩層那有兩層是基層的代表\n只有兩聲啦 真正請聽我們幾十年的心聲啦剛才委員在提就是說每次的開會大家的表現的方式當然每一個人的期望值都不一樣\n如果是一般的教師代表也希望大家每年都可以調然後今年在談的時候也有人說該要調10% 20%啦每一個人期望你自己可以判斷啦你如果有法治基礎就有一個公約數嘛對不對\n那個法治基礎是基本本但是大家標識意見所以我們會有一些參考的一個剛才委員有特別提到你講的是這個參考的價值嘛那個基本上十幾年來二十幾年來你們可以拿一個基準嘛這個部分應該是你們可以做的嘛所以今天本市的訴求就兩個啦一個法治化然後納入基層的這個代表的一個比例\n好不好 法治法可能我們還要等待 但是麻煩你 辛苦了啦這本來就是我應該要做的急件很多 但是不能一直都卡在行政院 院會啊 委員會聽起來很多東西都在行政院 要怎麼辦不過這樣也很好 因為所以你就先不用解決這些問題 是嗎院長有機會看到我 所以我要去報告\n但是我們還是以民為主啦主要這都是民間的人民的問題啦我們還是要積極來處理啦好不好拜託 今天這兩件好不好這剛才黃國昌委員說的我們地方的這個家籍\n這其實都是基層的問題你們覺得整個施政基層的問題我們很大一部分都沒有解決嗎我們一起加油都有解決 只是說一直有新的議題好啦 法治化啦 好不好讓大家有一個公平的基礎 好不好好\n對 我很快的跟你講一下這是跟你們內部有一點關係我知道你是資訊專業你們上個月發生一件系統測試的問題跟台北市政府你們在台北市政府你們把APP推播台北市停班停課瞬間在平台 大家就很困惑剛剛你們台北市政府有說\n是你們的人事總署和國家災害教育科學中心在民生市井公開資料平台上在測試但是重點是你們沒有說測試所以大家都叫是真的因為還在上班日結果你們就在那邊中央和地方就在說我們本來以前就有測試但是你們以前如果有測試\n你們都有放測試的字眼但是這次在台北市上市的時候你們沒有幫忙測試那你說什麼地方自己要自動爬取錯誤任市長你資訊專業你覺得這樣會過嗎我跟委員報告一下以前寫的測試是用中文寫的測試現在要自動化以後我們寫TEST\n所以這件事情後來我們有跟國科會去拜託負責的要去建構\n一個正式作業區 還有一個測試區讓大家正式的就不會去放掉了對啦 董事長 你想的會比較大啦想的會比較專業 我跟你說很簡單的啦你說這個 你有什麼Test 大家自動跳過不好意思 如果平常是大家看測試你這個要Test 你也要確定每一個層級都知道Test 是什麼意思 我跟你說一個例子啦今天比較開心的啦 不好意思\n我們就用吳宗憲委員的很創意的做法我來跟你講一下今天我們在簽名要請教說怎麼有一個我自己以為那個是東南亞文但是我有確認我就問議事人員說這裡是什麼人結果是吳宗憲委員非常遵循院會的傳統所以他簽的字是直的我們平常都看委員會給我們的格式是橫的\n我如果沒有問 我可能剛剛可能有一個什麼人到最後自己確認 光是我一個人這件事情就會產生這麼大的誤差了那些測試就不能說大家都要聽你好看你資訊專業一樣都可以了解所以這件事你跟台北市政府做這個這麼大條事後又說你要自己爬書這樣對不對 要檢討好不好\n所以重點就是 安全告知跟雙重確認的制度你們要好好檢討事情發生以後 中央跟地方一起來處理 好不好加油謝謝 謝謝林倩祺委員我不知道你台語說得那麼好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.954 --> 00:03.236\n之後就抽一筆你看,這樣就對了好,謝謝我們辛苦的張昌偉我請一下我們蘇仁市長請仁市長\n\n00:15.086 --> 00:26.629\n委員長董事長你好修昇我也是剛才黃委員在質詢我很有共鳴的他在關心的整個議題我也是很關心的所以你跟教育部說的那個結果也送給我一份好不好我要呼應他的是他對於偏鄉\n\n00:33.531 --> 00:48.593\n非常的關心這個其實長久的問題本席對於原鄉還有有一些都會去比較偏鄉的部分也是在一些專業的一些技術人員\n\n00:49.995 --> 01:07.077\n的這個佳績這也是本席在關心的但是今天本席因為有幾個主要的重點要跟你討論所以這也請你給大家關心一下尤其是原鄉剛才跟黃委員所講的很類似的問題其實一直在發生尤其是一些專技人員\n\n01:08.098 --> 01:28.175\n所以改天要這個部分跟您好好的討論但是我先跟你要一個資料剛才黃委員這邊講的你在幾個偏眼地區的合理化方案這個部分的計畫是不是可以給本席一份所以因為其實本席關心的東西也有一些是重疊的所以未來可能還要再跟您做更深入一點討論好不好\n\n01:30.151 --> 01:47.546\n會後會給委員大概這個禮拜一定會給你所以那整個你說六七個縣市你跟他們有這樣子一個合理化方案那本席來看看我們是不是可以一起找出問題然後把一些東西至少中長期我們把它法制化這樣你們也省掉一些問題\n\n01:49.327 --> 02:09.326\n所以今天我要跟你討論的也是軍公教待遇這個調整的一個法治化因為現在的一個狀況大家都會覺得有點黑箱但是我們有的東西法治化有一個依循做到一個公平的機制這樣大家可能不會比較不會經常有不同的想法我們可以有一個最大的公約數\n\n02:10.487 --> 02:35.627\n所以今天整個就是這長期以來軍公教的待遇的調整比較沒有一個法制化的基礎程序上感覺不太透明所以呼應到今年在八月份的時候行政院就拍板說明年軍公教的人員不調薪教育部同事來舉辦的軍公教員工待遇調整的座談會\n\n02:37.268 --> 02:59.139\n雖然你們說是傾聽基層凝聚共識但是很多教育團體都表達不滿他們說這根本不是協調只是摸頭大會來強調行政跟開放政府的時候大家會覺得這有點形式主義因為講了半天最後的結果離大家的期待有很大的一段距離所以軍公教其實在這個部分非常失望那這個\n\n03:01.121 --> 03:14.139\n可能座談會本身問題不是那麼大但是呢大家會感覺背後有一點黑箱因為沒法治所以在這個軍公教待遇審議的委員會裡面其實是握有具體的建議權但是重點是\n\n03:16.542 --> 03:37.763\n你們排除了這個基層代表的一個參與這個是有參與的這個人員他們所講的一個狀況那審議最後的結果是行政院在拍板那這個攸關十多萬軍公教人員的這個重要制度如果沒有法治基礎的運作那就每年就會有一些變化所以呢這個任市長為什麼要跟你請教兩個核心的問題\n\n03:38.604 --> 04:04.233\n就是說這個條新誰來決定依據什麼標準來決定會這樣講就是說因為沒有目前這個條新的審議沒有明確的法條規範也沒有固定的計算公式條幅的大小常常都會看政府的所謂你們所說的財政跟政治氣氛你們常說財政不好就沒有辦法處理但是其實真正的核心是我們怎麼樣讓財政變好\n\n04:06.215 --> 04:27.635\n但是一般百姓關心的就是法制化的基礎上大家對於未來比較可以有期待也可以了解未來的一些變化我們怎麼去因應我們不希望每年都看政府的財政跟政治的氣氛這樣的制度有點違反公開的原則跟我們民主政治也有點相悖所以\n\n04:28.556 --> 04:43.464\n其實你們在去年有承諾2024年底你們完成這個條新的法制化但是我想你可能會告訴我說現在還卡在行政院我不知道是不是你待會可以給我一個回應我們看到這個感覺法制化的一個承諾\n\n04:44.364 --> 05:09.589\n今天已經2025年底了好像又要跳票了對於軍公教的調整都這樣可以延宕我們政府怎麼樣呼籲民間企業來為勞工來加薪所以本席認為要恢復軍公教信任跟制度的穩定應該有兩個改革第一個是調新的法制化這樣能夠確保基層的權益第二個是機制要專業化確保能夠抗通膨\n\n05:10.529 --> 05:37.827\n所以我簡單說明一下軍公教人員待遇調整的草案目前趕快送來立法院我們要明確規範審議委員會的組織職權跟運作方式而且要納入一定比例的基層代表讓軍公教人員能夠預期調薪的時間條件跟幅度不要年年在感覺上好像依賴高層的上億\n\n05:40.749 --> 05:55.401\n接下來就是現行的制度要能夠採物價指數這個部分目前沒辦法好好的反映生活的成本所以過去13年我們的經濟成長已經達了43.04%但是民生物價漲了26.63%最低工資漲了51.56%但是軍工銷條薪剛14%而已所以實質的購買力都已經被通膨吞噬掉\n\n06:07.270 --> 06:22.313\n剛才我們說的如果要加薪留財但是軍公教感覺上實質減薪這樣子的雙重標準大家很難依循所以今年那個調薪的法制化有沒有可能在這個會期送到立法院\n\n06:24.516 --> 06:53.796\n謝謝委員給我這個機會來討論那個條帶法之外我們在上一年12月17號已經經過政務委員審議那現在坦白講就是躺在行政院欠缺最後一哩路現在就是lastmile現在就是lastmilelastmile有在行政院走好久喔因為最近國內大事情比較多所以我們一直在那裡cue那我們也期待說會一直發生的啦\n\n06:54.757 --> 07:14.738\n我也希望他可以順順地來啦啊代理的就是剛才委員現在還在行政院對不對你去年12月就送出來現在還在行政院嘛對不對就來不及因為產線有限所以大家要去排感謝啦你替行政院講話啦但是拜託好不好請議長還是你們這裡\n\n07:16.920 --> 07:40.346\n很多東西我聽起來大家都覺得卡在行政院這樣大家年年都在期待當時還可以真的完成最後一日路我三五五時都有去拜託啦但是齊見也比較多啦齊見的應該也不少所以我只好就是用等待來喚起我的夢想的實現\n\n07:43.406 --> 08:00.511\n另外剛才委員關心的就是這個整個條帶法治法的部分我們大概未來會有一個諮詢委員會那諮詢委員會裡面大概會有你本身說的一定的代表基層的代表可以納入嗎差不多有兩層那有兩層是基層的代表\n\n08:01.051 --> 08:14.366\n只有兩聲啦真正請聽我們幾十年的心聲啦剛才委員在提就是說每次的開會大家的表現的方式當然每一個人的期望值都不一樣\n\n08:16.008 --> 08:32.160\n如果是一般的教師代表也希望大家每年都可以調然後今年在談的時候也有人說該要調10%20%啦每一個人期望你自己可以判斷啦你如果有法治基礎就有一個公約數嘛對不對\n\n08:34.742 --> 09:02.283\n那個法治基礎是基本本但是大家標識意見所以我們會有一些參考的一個剛才委員有特別提到你講的是這個參考的價值嘛那個基本上十幾年來二十幾年來你們可以拿一個基準嘛這個部分應該是你們可以做的嘛所以今天本市的訴求就兩個啦一個法治化然後納入基層的這個代表的一個比例\n\n09:02.863 --> 09:28.684\n好不好法治法可能我們還要等待但是麻煩你辛苦了啦這本來就是我應該要做的急件很多但是不能一直都卡在行政院院會啊委員會聽起來很多東西都在行政院要怎麼辦不過這樣也很好因為所以你就先不用解決這些問題是嗎院長有機會看到我所以我要去報告\n\n09:30.720 --> 09:36.705\n但是我們還是以民為主啦主要這都是民間的人民的問題啦我們還是要積極來處理啦好不好拜託今天這兩件好不好這剛才黃國昌委員說的我們地方的這個家籍\n\n09:45.551 --> 09:57.501\n這其實都是基層的問題你們覺得整個施政基層的問題我們很大一部分都沒有解決嗎我們一起加油都有解決只是說一直有新的議題好啦法治化啦好不好讓大家有一個公平的基礎好不好好\n\n10:02.445 --> 10:25.139\n對我很快的跟你講一下這是跟你們內部有一點關係我知道你是資訊專業你們上個月發生一件系統測試的問題跟台北市政府你們在台北市政府你們把APP推播台北市停班停課瞬間在平台大家就很困惑剛剛你們台北市政府有說\n\n10:26.360 --> 10:43.637\n是你們的人事總署和國家災害教育科學中心在民生市井公開資料平台上在測試但是重點是你們沒有說測試所以大家都叫是真的因為還在上班日結果你們就在那邊中央和地方就在說我們本來以前就有測試但是你們以前如果有測試\n\n10:48.041 --> 11:10.335\n你們都有放測試的字眼但是這次在台北市上市的時候你們沒有幫忙測試那你說什麼地方自己要自動爬取錯誤任市長你資訊專業你覺得這樣會過嗎我跟委員報告一下以前寫的測試是用中文寫的測試現在要自動化以後我們寫TEST\n\n11:11.015 --> 11:12.116\n所以這件事情後來我們有跟國科會去拜託負責的要去建構\n\n11:29.306 --> 11:44.417\n一個正式作業區還有一個測試區讓大家正式的就不會去放掉了對啦董事長你想的會比較大啦想的會比較專業我跟你說很簡單的啦你說這個你有什麼Test大家自動跳過不好意思如果平常是大家看測試你這個要Test你也要確定每一個層級都知道Test是什麼意思我跟你說一個例子啦今天比較開心的啦不好意思\n\n11:56.865 --> 12:01.568\n我們就用吳宗憲委員的很創意的做法我來跟你講一下今天我們在簽名要請教說怎麼有一個我自己以為那個是東南亞文但是我有確認我就問議事人員說這裡是什麼人結果是吳宗憲委員非常遵循院會的傳統所以他簽的字是直的我們平常都看委員會給我們的格式是橫的\n\n12:23.539 --> 12:45.440\n我如果沒有問我可能剛剛可能有一個什麼人到最後自己確認光是我一個人這件事情就會產生這麼大的誤差了那些測試就不能說大家都要聽你好看你資訊專業一樣都可以了解所以這件事你跟台北市政府做這個這麼大條事後又說你要自己爬書這樣對不對要檢討好不好\n\n12:47.842 --> 12:56.732\n所以重點就是安全告知跟雙重確認的制度你們要好好檢討事情發生以後中央跟地方一起來處理好不好加油謝謝謝謝林倩祺委員我不知道你台語說得那麼好\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.954,"end":3.236,"text":"之後就抽一筆你看,這樣就對了好,謝謝我們辛苦的張昌偉我請一下我們蘇仁市長請仁市長"},{"start":15.086,"end":26.629,"text":"委員長 董事長 你好修昇 我也是剛才黃委員在質詢 我很有共鳴的他在關心的整個議題 我也是很關心的所以你跟教育部說的那個結果也送給我一份 好不好我要呼應他的 是他對於偏鄉"},{"start":33.531,"end":48.593,"text":"非常的關心這個其實長久的問題本席對於原鄉還有有一些都會去比較偏鄉的部分也是在一些專業的一些技術人員"},{"start":49.995,"end":67.077,"text":"的這個佳績這也是本席在關心的但是今天本席因為有幾個主要的重點要跟你討論所以這也請你給大家關心一下尤其是原鄉剛才跟黃委員所講的很類似的問題其實一直在發生尤其是一些專技人員"},{"start":68.098,"end":88.175,"text":"所以改天要這個部分跟您好好的討論但是我先跟你要一個資料剛才黃委員這邊講的你在幾個偏眼地區的合理化方案這個部分的計畫是不是可以給本席一份所以因為其實本席關心的東西也有一些是重疊的所以未來可能還要再跟您做更深入一點討論好不好"},{"start":90.151,"end":107.546,"text":"會後會給委員大概這個禮拜一定會給你所以那整個你說六七個縣市你跟他們有這樣子一個合理化方案那本席來看看我們是不是可以一起找出問題然後把一些東西至少中長期我們把它法制化這樣你們也省掉一些問題"},{"start":109.327,"end":129.326,"text":"所以今天我要跟你討論的 也是軍公教待遇這個調整的一個法治化因為現在的一個狀況 大家都會覺得有點黑箱但是 我們有的東西法治化有一個依循 做到一個公平的機制這樣大家可能不會 比較不會經常有不同的想法 我們可以有一個最大的公約數"},{"start":130.487,"end":155.627,"text":"所以今天整個就是這長期以來軍公教的待遇的調整比較沒有一個法制化的基礎程序上感覺不太透明所以呼應到今年在八月份的時候行政院就拍板說明年軍公教的人員不調薪教育部同事來舉辦的軍公教員工待遇調整的座談會"},{"start":157.268,"end":179.139,"text":"雖然你們說是傾聽基層 凝聚共識但是很多教育團體都表達不滿他們說這根本不是協調 只是摸頭大會來強調行政跟開放政府的時候大家會覺得這有點形式主義因為講了半天最後的結果離大家的期待有很大的一段距離所以軍公教其實在這個部分非常失望那這個"},{"start":181.121,"end":194.139,"text":"可能座談會本身問題不是那麼大但是呢 大家會感覺背後有一點黑箱 因為沒法治所以在這個軍公教待遇審議的委員會裡面其實是握有具體的建議權但是重點是"},{"start":196.542,"end":217.763,"text":"你們排除了這個基層代表的一個參與這個是有參與的這個人員他們所講的一個狀況那審議最後的結果是行政院在拍板那這個攸關十多萬軍公教人員的這個重要制度如果沒有法治基礎的運作那就每年就會有一些變化所以呢這個任市長為什麼要跟你請教兩個核心的問題"},{"start":218.604,"end":244.233,"text":"就是說這個條新誰來決定依據什麼標準來決定會這樣講就是說因為沒有目前這個條新的審議沒有明確的法條規範也沒有固定的計算公式條幅的大小常常都會看政府的所謂你們所說的財政跟政治氣氛你們常說財政不好就沒有辦法處理但是其實真正的核心是我們怎麼樣讓財政變好"},{"start":246.215,"end":267.635,"text":"但是一般百姓關心的就是法制化的基礎上大家對於未來比較可以有期待也可以了解未來的一些變化我們怎麼去因應我們不希望每年都看政府的財政跟政治的氣氛這樣的制度有點違反公開的原則跟我們民主政治也有點相悖所以"},{"start":268.556,"end":283.464,"text":"其實你們在去年有承諾2024年底你們完成這個條新的法制化但是我想你可能會告訴我說現在還卡在行政院我不知道是不是你待會可以給我一個回應我們看到這個感覺法制化的一個承諾"},{"start":284.364,"end":309.589,"text":"今天已經2025年底了好像又要跳票了對於軍公教的調整都這樣可以延宕我們政府怎麼樣呼籲民間企業來為勞工來加薪所以本席認為要恢復軍公教信任跟制度的穩定應該有兩個改革第一個是調新的法制化這樣能夠確保基層的權益第二個是機制要專業化確保能夠抗通膨"},{"start":310.529,"end":337.827,"text":"所以我簡單說明一下軍公教人員待遇調整的草案目前趕快送來立法院我們要明確規範審議委員會的組織職權跟運作方式而且要納入一定比例的基層代表讓軍公教人員能夠預期調薪的時間條件跟幅度不要年年在感覺上好像依賴高層的上億"},{"start":340.749,"end":355.401,"text":"接下來就是現行的制度要能夠採物價指數這個部分目前沒辦法好好的反映生活的成本所以過去13年我們的經濟成長已經達了43.04%但是民生物價漲了26.63%最低工資漲了51.56%但是軍工銷條薪剛14%而已所以實質的購買力都已經被通膨吞噬掉"},{"start":367.27,"end":382.313,"text":"剛才我們說的 如果要加薪留財但是軍公教感覺上實質減薪這樣子的雙重標準大家很難依循所以今年那個調薪的法制化有沒有可能在這個會期送到立法院"},{"start":384.516,"end":413.796,"text":"謝謝委員給我這個機會來討論那個條帶法之外我們在上一年12月17號已經經過政務委員審議那現在坦白講就是躺在行政院欠缺最後一哩路現在就是last mile現在就是last milelast mile有在行政院走好久喔因為最近國內大事情比較多所以我們一直在那裡cue那我們也期待說會一直發生的啦"},{"start":414.757,"end":434.738,"text":"我也希望他可以順順地來啦啊 代理的就是剛才委員現在還在行政院對不對你去年12月就送出來現在還在行政院嘛 對不對就來不及因為產線有限所以大家要去排 感謝啦你替行政院講話啦但是拜託好不好請議長還是你們這裡"},{"start":436.92,"end":460.346,"text":"很多東西我聽起來大家都覺得卡在行政院這樣大家年年都在期待 當時還可以真的完成最後一日路我三五五時都有去拜託啦但是齊見也比較多啦齊見的應該也不少所以我只好就是用等待來喚起我的夢想的實現"},{"start":463.406,"end":480.511,"text":"另外剛才委員關心的就是這個整個條帶法治法的部分我們大概未來會有一個諮詢委員會那諮詢委員會裡面大概會有你本身說的一定的代表基層的代表可以納入嗎差不多有兩層那有兩層是基層的代表"},{"start":481.051,"end":494.366,"text":"只有兩聲啦 真正請聽我們幾十年的心聲啦剛才委員在提就是說每次的開會大家的表現的方式當然每一個人的期望值都不一樣"},{"start":496.008,"end":512.16,"text":"如果是一般的教師代表也希望大家每年都可以調然後今年在談的時候也有人說該要調10% 20%啦每一個人期望你自己可以判斷啦你如果有法治基礎就有一個公約數嘛對不對"},{"start":514.742,"end":542.283,"text":"那個法治基礎是基本本但是大家標識意見所以我們會有一些參考的一個剛才委員有特別提到你講的是這個參考的價值嘛那個基本上十幾年來二十幾年來你們可以拿一個基準嘛這個部分應該是你們可以做的嘛所以今天本市的訴求就兩個啦一個法治化然後納入基層的這個代表的一個比例"},{"start":542.863,"end":568.684,"text":"好不好 法治法可能我們還要等待 但是麻煩你 辛苦了啦這本來就是我應該要做的急件很多 但是不能一直都卡在行政院 院會啊 委員會聽起來很多東西都在行政院 要怎麼辦不過這樣也很好 因為所以你就先不用解決這些問題 是嗎院長有機會看到我 所以我要去報告"},{"start":570.72,"end":576.705,"text":"但是我們還是以民為主啦主要這都是民間的人民的問題啦我們還是要積極來處理啦好不好拜託 今天這兩件好不好這剛才黃國昌委員說的我們地方的這個家籍"},{"start":585.551,"end":597.501,"text":"這其實都是基層的問題你們覺得整個施政基層的問題我們很大一部分都沒有解決嗎我們一起加油都有解決 只是說一直有新的議題好啦 法治化啦 好不好讓大家有一個公平的基礎 好不好好"},{"start":602.445,"end":625.139,"text":"對 我很快的跟你講一下這是跟你們內部有一點關係我知道你是資訊專業你們上個月發生一件系統測試的問題跟台北市政府你們在台北市政府你們把APP推播台北市停班停課瞬間在平台 大家就很困惑剛剛你們台北市政府有說"},{"start":626.36,"end":643.637,"text":"是你們的人事總署和國家災害教育科學中心在民生市井公開資料平台上在測試但是重點是你們沒有說測試所以大家都叫是真的因為還在上班日結果你們就在那邊中央和地方就在說我們本來以前就有測試但是你們以前如果有測試"},{"start":648.041,"end":670.335,"text":"你們都有放測試的字眼但是這次在台北市上市的時候你們沒有幫忙測試那你說什麼地方自己要自動爬取錯誤任市長你資訊專業你覺得這樣會過嗎我跟委員報告一下以前寫的測試是用中文寫的測試現在要自動化以後我們寫TEST"},{"start":671.015,"end":672.116,"text":"所以這件事情後來我們有跟國科會去拜託負責的要去建構"},{"start":689.306,"end":704.417,"text":"一個正式作業區 還有一個測試區讓大家正式的就不會去放掉了對啦 董事長 你想的會比較大啦想的會比較專業 我跟你說很簡單的啦你說這個 你有什麼Test 大家自動跳過不好意思 如果平常是大家看測試你這個要Test 你也要確定每一個層級都知道Test 是什麼意思 我跟你說一個例子啦今天比較開心的啦 不好意思"},{"start":716.865,"end":721.568,"text":"我們就用吳宗憲委員的很創意的做法我來跟你講一下今天我們在簽名要請教說怎麼有一個我自己以為那個是東南亞文但是我有確認我就問議事人員說這裡是什麼人結果是吳宗憲委員非常遵循院會的傳統所以他簽的字是直的我們平常都看委員會給我們的格式是橫的"},{"start":743.539,"end":765.44,"text":"我如果沒有問 我可能剛剛可能有一個什麼人到最後自己確認 光是我一個人這件事情就會產生這麼大的誤差了那些測試就不能說大家都要聽你好看你資訊專業一樣都可以了解所以這件事你跟台北市政府做這個這麼大條事後又說你要自己爬書這樣對不對 要檢討好不好"},{"start":767.842,"end":776.732,"text":"所以重點就是 安全告知跟雙重確認的制度你們要好好檢討事情發生以後 中央跟地方一起來處理 好不好加油謝謝 謝謝林倩祺委員我不知道你台語說得那麼好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":246,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（9時47分）謝謝我們辛苦的莊召委。我請一下蘇人事長。"],["主席：請人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早。"],["林委員倩綺：人事長你好。首先，我對於剛才黃委員的質詢很有共鳴，他在關心的那幾個議題，我也是很關心的，你跟教育部談的那個結果也送給我一份好嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好，沒問題。"],["林委員倩綺：我要呼應他的是，他對於偏鄉非常關心，這個其實是長久的問題，本席對於原鄉還有一些都會區比較偏鄉的一些專業技術人員的加給，也是本席在關心的，今天本席有幾個主要的重點要跟你討論，所以也請你多關心一下，尤其是原鄉，跟剛才黃委員所講的很類似的問題一直在發生，尤其是一些專技人員，所以改天這個部分要跟你好好的討論。但是我先跟你要一個資料，剛才黃委員這邊講的，你在幾個偏遠地區的合理化方案，是不是可以給本席一份？因為本席關心的問題也有一些是重疊的，未來可能還要再跟您做更深入的討論，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們會後會給委員，這個禮拜一定會給你。"],["林委員倩綺：好的，你說六、七個縣市有這樣的合理化方案，本席來看看，我們是不是可以一起找出問題，然後把一些事宜至少中長期的部分，我們把它法制化，這樣也省掉你們的一些問題。","今天我要跟你討教的是軍公教待遇調整的法制化，因為現在有一個狀況，大家都覺得有點黑箱，如果有的東西法制化，讓大家有所依循，做到一個公平的機制，這樣大家可能比較不會常常在猜……就是不同的想法，我們可以有一個最大的公約數。長期以來軍公教待遇的調整比較沒有法制化的基礎，程序上大家覺得不太透明，呼應今年8月份的時候，行政院就拍板說明年軍公教人員不調薪，教育部和你們舉辦的軍公教員工待遇調整的座談會，雖然你們說是傾聽基層、凝聚共識，但是很多教育團體都表達不滿，他們說這根本不是協調，純粹就是摸頭大會，在強調行政跟開放政府的時候，大家會覺得這有點形式主義，因為講了半天，最後的結果離大家的期待有很大一段距離，所以軍公教其實在這個部分非常失望。可能座談會本身問題不是那麼大，但大家會感覺背後有一點黑箱，如果沒有法制化的話。在軍公教待遇審議委員會裡面，其實是握有具體的建議權，但重點是你們排除了基層代表的參與，這個是有參與的人員他們所講的一個狀況。審議的最後結果是行政院拍板，攸關十多萬軍公教人員的這個重要制度，如果沒有法制基礎的運作，每年就會有一些變化。","所以人事長，我想跟你請教兩個核心的問題，就是調薪誰決定？依據什麼標準來決定？會這樣講就是因為，目前調薪的審議沒有明確的法條規範，也沒有固定的計算公式，調幅大小常常都會看政府的所謂你們說的財政跟政治氣氛，你們常說財政不好就沒有辦法處理，但其實真正的核心是我們怎麼樣讓財政變好。而一般百姓關心的就是，在法制化的基礎上，大家對於未來比較可以有期待，也可以了解未來的一些變化我們怎麼去因應，我們不希望每年都看政府的財政跟政治氣氛，這樣的制度有點違反公開原則，跟民主政治也有點相悖。","其實你們去年有承諾，2024年底你們要完成調薪的法制化，我想你可能會告訴我說現在又卡在行政院，我不知道是不是，您待會兒可以給我一個回應。我們看到的、感覺法制化的一個承諾，現在已經2025年底了，好像又要跳票了。對於軍公教的調整都可以延宕，那政府怎麼樣呼籲民間企業為勞工加薪？","所以本席認為，要恢復軍公教信任跟制度的穩定，應該有兩個改革：第一個是調薪法制化，這樣能夠確保基層權益；第二個是機制專業化，確保能夠抗通膨。我簡單說明一下，軍公教人員待遇調整的草案，趕快送來立法院，然後我們要明確規範審議委員會的組織、職權跟運作方式，而且要納入一定比例的基層代表，讓軍公教人員能夠預期調薪的時間、條件跟幅度，不要年年在感覺上好像依賴高層的上意。","接下來，就是現行制度要能夠採物價指數，這個部分目前沒辦法好好地反映生活成本。過去13年我們的經濟成長已達43.04%，而民生物價漲了26.63%，最低工資漲了51.56%，但是軍公教調薪只有14%而已，所以實質的購買力都已經被通膨吞噬掉。剛剛我們說到，如果要加薪留才，但軍公教感覺上又實質減薪，這樣子的雙重標準大家很難依循。所以今年調薪的法制化，有沒有可能在這個會期送到立法院？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝委員給我這個機會答復，調待法制化，我們在上一年12月17號已經經過政務委員審議，現在坦白講就是欠缺……"],["林委員倩綺：躺在行政院？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：欠缺最後一哩路，現在就是last mile。"],["林委員倩綺：是還在行政院，對嘛？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：現在就是last mile，通過以後……"],["林委員倩綺：last mile，在行政院走好久喔！對吧？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：因為最近國內的大事情比較多，所以我們一直在那裡cue，那我們也期待……"],["林委員倩綺：會一直發生的啦！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我也希望它可以順順地來。第二個就是剛才委員提到……"],["林委員倩綺：現在還在行政院，對吧？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：嗯。"],["林委員倩綺：你們去年12月就送出來了，現在還在行政院，對不對？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：就內部那邊，因為產線有限，所以大家要去排……"],["林委員倩綺：好啦！感謝，你替行政院在說話，但是拜託一下，好不好？請院長還是你們這邊要追一下，好不好？很多東西，我聽起來，大家都覺得卡在行政院，這樣大家年年都在那邊期待，什麼時候才能真的完成最後一哩路？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我三不五時都有去拜託，但是急件也比較多。急件的應該也不少，所以我只好就是用等待來喚起我的夢想實現。"],["林委員倩綺：有夠辛苦的、很悲哀的這樣子。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：另外，剛才委員關心的就是這整個調待法制化的部分，我們大概未來會有一個諮詢委員會，諮詢委員會裡面大概會……"],["林委員倩綺：本席說的那個，一定的代表、基層的代表可以納入嘛？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對，差不多有兩成，有兩成是基層的代表。"],["林委員倩綺：至少兩成。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對，目前……"],["林委員倩綺：真正傾聽基層的心聲。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：目前開會是這樣。剛才委員在提，就是每一次開會大家的表現方式，當然每一個人的期望值都不一樣，如果是一般的教師代表，他也希望大家每年都可以調。然後今年在談的時候，也有人說最好調10%還是20%，每一個人的期望值都不一樣。"],["林委員倩綺：你們自己可以判斷，你們如果有法制基礎就不會……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我知道啊！不……"],["林委員倩綺：就有一個公約數，對不對？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：那個法制基礎是基本盤，但是大家表示意見，所以我們會參考一些，剛才委員特別提到……"],["林委員倩綺：對，你說的是參考的價值，基本上十幾年、二十幾年來，你們應該可以抓一個基準，這個部分應該是你們可以做的。所以今天本席的訴求就兩個，一個是法制化，然後納入基層代表的比例，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有，這個有。"],["林委員倩綺：法制化，這樣可能我們還要再等待，但是也麻煩你，辛苦了，跟院長再催促一下。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這本來就是我應該要做的。"],["林委員倩綺：急件很多，但是不能一直都卡在行政院，如果院會、委員會，聽起來很多東西都在行政院，這樣要怎麼辦？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：不過這樣也很好，因為……"],["林委員倩綺：也很好喔？所以你就先不用解決這些問題，是嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：那個場合，院長有機會看到我，所以我要去報告，那也是一個會議……"],["林委員倩綺：好啦！但我們還是以民為主，主要這都是人民的問題，我們還是要積極處理，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。"],["林委員倩綺：拜託一下，今天就這兩件，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。"],["林委員倩綺：這跟剛剛黃國昌委員說的，地方的加給，這其實都是基層的問題，你不覺得整個施政、基層的問題，我們很大一部分都沒有解決嗎？我們一起加油。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：都有解決，只是一直有新的問題出來。"],["林委員倩綺：予以法制化，好不好？讓大家有一個覺得公平的基礎，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好、好。"],["林委員倩綺：第二個，我很快地跟你講一下，這跟你們內部有點關係，我知道你是資訊專業，你們上個月發生一件系統測試的問題、跟臺北市政府，在臺北市政府，你們把它app推播臺北市停班停課，瞬間在平臺大家就很困惑。臺北市政府有說，是你們人事總處跟國家災害教育科學中心在民生示警公開資料平臺上測試，但重點是你們沒說測試，所以大家都以為是真的，因為是在上班日。結果中央跟地方就在說，這個我們以前就有測試。但是你們以前若有測試，你們都有放「測試」的字眼，而這次就臺北市你們把它送出去的時候，你們沒有寫是測試，那你們就說什麼地方自己要自動爬取錯誤。人事長，你是資訊專業，你覺得這樣說得過去嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我跟委員報告一下，以前寫的測試是用中文寫的「測試」，現在自動化以後我們寫「test」，也是一樣test……"],["林委員倩綺：你們有跟大家說現在test？你有沒有跟每一個人說test？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：沒有，那他們自己……"],["林委員倩綺：不是每一個人都知道「test」是什麼欸！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：就是中文看習慣了，英文的test他就跳過啊！所以這件事情，後來我們有跟國科會拜託，負責的要去建構一個正式作業區還有一個測試區，讓大家用正式的就不會看錯。"],["林委員倩綺：人事長，你想的會比較大、想的會比較專業。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：沒有、沒有，現在他們在處理了。"],["林委員倩綺：我就跟你說，很簡單……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：那個他們在處理。"],["林委員倩綺：你說這次你們有寫test，大家自動跳過。不好意思，如果平常大家看到測試，這次要test，你也要確定每一個層級都知道test是什麼意思。","我跟你說一個例子，今天才發生的，不好意思，我們就用吳宗憲委員很創意的作法，我來跟你講一下。今天我們在簽名，我簽到說怎麼有一個……我自己以為那個是東南亞文，但是我有確認，我就問議事人員說：這個是什麼人啊？結果是吳宗憲委員非常遵循院會的傳統，所以他簽的字是直的，而我們平常都看委員會給我們的這個格式、是橫的。如果我沒問，我會覺得說可能有一個是什麼人，到最後就自己確認。光是我一個人，這件事情就會產生這麼大的誤差了，你那個寫test，你不能說每個人的英語都要那麼好，跟你資訊專業一樣都可以了解耶！所以這件你們給臺北市政府弄個這麼大條的，事後還說你們要自己爬梳，這樣對嗎？要檢討，好不好？所以重點是安全告知跟雙重確認的制度，你們要好好檢討。事情發生以後，中央跟地方一起來處理，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好，一定的。"],["林委員倩綺：加油。"],["主席：謝謝林倩綺委員，我不知道你臺語說得那麼好，下次你如果全程用臺語，我多給你兩分鐘。","接下來請王義川委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-5","speakers":["莊瑞雄","吳宗憲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","林倩綺","王義川","羅智強","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈發惠","傅崐萁"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00006"}}}