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{\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 105.653, \"end\": 105.893, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 105.893, \"end\": 106.193, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 106.193, \"end\": 106.754, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 106.754, \"end\": 107.014, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"拼\", \"start\": 107.014, \"end\": 107.034, \"score\": 0.503}, {\"word\": \"湊\"}]}, {\"start\": 107.654, \"end\": 120.162, \"text\": \"那一些照片也貼錯了然後那個身份也都是錯誤的那甚至可以跟我們報告還有當事人跑去警局報案我理解喔因為我有看到相關的新聞但是因為這個錯誤的資訊喔它也有錯誤資訊衍生的這個問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 107.654, \"end\": 107.754, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 107.754, \"end\": 107.834, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 107.834, \"end\": 107.974, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 107.974, \"end\": 108.154, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"片\", \"start\": 108.154, \"end\": 108.274, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"也\", 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\"防\", \"start\": 205.383, \"end\": 205.523, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 205.523, \"end\": 205.623, \"score\": 0.638}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 205.623, \"end\": 205.863, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 205.863, \"end\": 206.003, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 206.003, \"end\": 206.163, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 206.163, \"end\": 206.183, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 206.724, \"end\": 233.966, \"text\": \"那我們已經有完整的把這個本局的做法跟馬委員這邊提供書面的報告那也把這個書面的報告提供給國防部做參考希望能夠來阻止進一步的國軍官兵弟兄資訊的外流這是第一部分那第二部分是有一些被外流的這些名單那假如是過去曾經在國防部服役的弟兄因為剛剛有跟委員說明因為過去的公開情資有可能國軍包括接受頒獎還有擔任記者都會有名單外流\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 206.724, \"end\": 206.824, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 206.824, \"end\": 206.884, \"score\": 0.324}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 206.884, \"end\": 207.144, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 207.144, 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{\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 213.469, \"end\": 213.59, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 213.59, \"end\": 213.75, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 213.75, \"end\": 213.91, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 213.91, \"end\": 214.27, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 214.27, \"end\": 214.67, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 214.67, \"end\": 214.811, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 214.811, \"end\": 214.931, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 214.931, \"end\": 215.511, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"阻\", \"start\": 215.511, \"end\": 215.731, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 215.731, \"end\": 216.051, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 216.051, \"end\": 216.172, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 216.172, \"end\": 216.332, \"score\": 0.762}, 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{\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 219.394, \"end\": 219.895, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 219.895, \"end\": 220.015, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 220.015, \"end\": 220.035, \"score\": 0.431}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 220.035, \"end\": 220.195, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 220.195, \"end\": 220.355, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 220.355, \"end\": 220.595, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 220.595, \"end\": 221.055, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 221.055, \"end\": 221.196, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 221.196, \"end\": 221.256, \"score\": 0.495}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 221.256, \"end\": 221.436, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 221.436, \"end\": 222.276, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 222.276, \"end\": 222.497, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"流\", \"start\": 222.497, \"end\": 222.757, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 228.582, \"end\": 228.682, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 228.682, \"end\": 228.982, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 228.982, \"end\": 229.382, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 229.382, \"end\": 229.582, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 229.582, \"end\": 229.722, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 229.722, \"end\": 230.623, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 230.623, \"end\": 230.723, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 230.723, \"end\": 230.883, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 230.883, \"end\": 231.043, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 231.043, \"end\": 231.804, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"頒\"}, {\"word\": \"獎\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 231.804, \"end\": 232.124, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 232.124, \"end\": 232.565, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 232.565, \"end\": 232.725, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 232.725, \"end\": 232.965, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 232.965, \"end\": 233.405, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 233.405, \"end\": 233.766, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 233.766, \"end\": 233.946, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"流\", \"start\": 233.946, \"end\": 233.966, \"score\": 0.096}]}, {\"start\": 234.286, \"end\": 259.086, \"text\": \"那這部分國防部我來幫國防部說明一下雖然不是我的夜館那他們有一個輔導的機制那會逐一的來跟這些同仁來做接觸跟說明那看有沒有要協助的地方包括他們的家人那有沒有在假如到對岸去經商旅遊遭到刁難所以是有一個機制在的那再來就是委員所提到的第三種狀況他不是當事人但是被貼錯了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 234.286, \"end\": 234.506, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 234.506, \"end\": 234.666, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 234.666, \"end\": 235.247, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 453.119, \"end\": 454.06, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 454.06, \"end\": 454.22, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"星\", \"start\": 454.22, \"end\": 454.461, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"旗\", \"start\": 454.461, \"end\": 454.601, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 454.601, \"end\": 455.181, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 455.181, \"end\": 455.381, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 455.381, \"end\": 455.521, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 455.521, \"end\": 455.962, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 455.962, \"end\": 456.182, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 456.182, \"end\": 456.302, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 456.302, \"end\": 456.442, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 456.442, \"end\": 456.742, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 456.742, \"end\": 456.922, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 456.922, \"end\": 457.042, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 457.042, \"end\": 457.063, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 457.063, \"end\": 457.103, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 457.103, \"end\": 457.403, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 457.403, \"end\": 457.683, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 457.683, \"end\": 457.863, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 457.863, \"end\": 458.023, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 458.023, \"end\": 458.504, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 458.504, \"end\": 458.764, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 458.764, \"end\": 458.984, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"射\", \"start\": 458.984, \"end\": 459.184, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"房\", \"start\": 459.184, \"end\": 459.504, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 459.504, \"end\": 459.524, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 463.948, \"end\": 480.73, \"text\": \"那可不可以請這個局長幫我們做一個說明委員說的沒有錯因為央廣不是一般的廣播公司它在國家緊急危難的時候是負責公眾傳播的所以是定位為關鍵基礎設施那關鍵基礎設施的維護行政院有相關的跨部會的匯報\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 463.948, \"end\": 464.068, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 464.068, \"end\": 464.149, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 464.149, \"end\": 464.169, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 464.169, \"end\": 464.409, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 464.409, \"end\": 464.91, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 464.91, \"end\": 465.05, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"幫\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 465.05, \"end\": 465.49, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", 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\"代表這裡有漏洞那希望可以重新檢視這一些在陳平時期非戰時的關鍵基礎設施那有沒有一些實體上面的漏洞除了資安之外實體上的漏洞那重新的去檢查一次避免類似的情況發生就行政院的那個關鍵基礎設施的防護匯報的話我們來把委員剛剛的意見來做一個表達謝謝徐小青委員局長請回接下來進行詢問\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 546.787, \"end\": 546.927, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 546.927, \"end\": 547.308, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 547.308, \"end\": 547.508, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"漏\", \"start\": 547.508, \"end\": 547.768, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"洞\", \"start\": 547.768, \"end\": 547.968, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 547.968, \"end\": 548.189, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 548.189, \"end\": 548.349, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 548.349, \"end\": 548.529, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 548.529, \"end\": 548.609, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 548.609, \"end\": 548.709, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 548.709, \"end\": 548.91, 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569.693, \"score\": 0.789}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 569.693, \"end\": 569.713, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 569.713, \"end\": 569.753, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 569.753, \"end\": 569.873, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 569.873, \"end\": 569.953, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 569.953, \"end\": 569.973, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 569.973, \"end\": 569.993, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,774 --> 00:00:04,856\n謝謝主席我們是不是有請國安局長來局長請好謝謝主席需要有人找\n\n2\n00:00:12,146 --> 00:00:35,937\n早那今天想要詢問就是在月中的時候那中共官方呢他們呢其實也不是第一次了那他們有貼出這個懸賞我國這個新戰大隊人員的個資跟照片那當然我知道他是隸屬國防部的政戰局新戰大隊但是呢他這個是攸關國安問題所以今天也想要來詢問一下國安局的\n\n3\n00:00:37,177 --> 00:00:58,123\n那除了這個國防部主管之外那我想要請問國安局在這個議題上面的研究那狀態到底是什麼樣子然後呢後續有沒有能夠協處的這個情形謝委員關切這個問題因為這涉及到我們國軍官兵的個資還有甚至是人身安全\n\n4\n00:00:58,963 --> 00:01:21,819\n那已經有幾波的中共公佈這樣的我們的國軍官兵的個資那大概的狀況有點就是在進行所謂的常備管轄進行這種心理戰或輿論的一個恫嚇那這些名單以委員現在畫面所呈現的新戰大隊來講那有很多是中共方面他透過公開情資去做拼湊的\n\n5\n00:01:23,180 --> 00:01:47,034\n委員可能會知道因為新戰隊的這些相關的國軍官兵的同仁他們有的都是在我們的國軍的媒體當記者包括像是那個青年日報或是漢森電台所以從公開情資就可以收集到早年歷來的這些相關的個資那中共只是把這些過去公開的個資做拼湊\n\n6\n00:01:47,654 --> 00:02:00,162\n那一些照片也貼錯了然後那個身份也都是錯誤的那甚至可以跟我們報告還有當事人跑去警局報案我理解喔因為我有看到相關的新聞但是因為這個錯誤的資訊喔它也有錯誤資訊衍生的這個問題\n\n7\n00:02:05,626 --> 00:02:19,708\n就是說呢他現在發布這個懸賞通告那如果他有一些是錯誤的資訊那但是有這樣子一個當事人那他未來他可能這個到港澳或者是說他到中國大陸的時候他被懸賞了那他可能其實\n\n8\n00:02:20,469 --> 00:02:41,651\n他可以去的原因是因為他根本就不是他根本就不是我們的星戰的這個隊員那他當然他是沒有管制嘛那他當然是可以到大陸或是港澳那結果呢他竟然是在因為一個錯誤資訊然後是被懸賞的這個狀態那對這上面的這些當事人來說是不是他就變成是一個缺乏保護的機制\n\n9\n00:02:42,552 --> 00:03:05,462\n那我們在國安局在這整個包含是我們這個星戰大隊實際上面就是說正確的資訊的引力避免這個中共的這個掌握或是滲透以及錯誤的資訊上面如何去保障我們國人他不管在旅遊或者是他平常時行動的這個安全上面那局長這裡有沒有一些可以提供說明跟參考\n\n10\n00:03:06,082 --> 00:03:26,183\n大概跟委員做幾個面向的資訊的補充跟說明那第一個部分是怎麼樣來防範有國軍官兵弟兄的個資外流的部分那這個議題因為前一陣子馬文君委員也有關切那也希望本局提供一個本局的做法來給國防部的單位做參考\n\n11\n00:03:26,724 --> 00:03:53,966\n那我們已經有完整的把這個本局的做法跟馬委員這邊提供書面的報告那也把這個書面的報告提供給國防部做參考希望能夠來阻止進一步的國軍官兵弟兄資訊的外流這是第一部分那第二部分是有一些被外流的這些名單那假如是過去曾經在國防部服役的弟兄因為剛剛有跟委員說明因為過去的公開情資有可能國軍包括接受頒獎還有擔任記者都會有名單外流\n\n12\n00:03:54,286 --> 00:04:19,086\n那這部分國防部我來幫國防部說明一下雖然不是我的夜館那他們有一個輔導的機制那會逐一的來跟這些同仁來做接觸跟說明那看有沒有要協助的地方包括他們的家人那有沒有在假如到對岸去經商旅遊遭到刁難所以是有一個機制在的那再來就是委員所提到的第三種狀況他不是當事人但是被貼錯了\n\n13\n00:04:20,307 --> 00:04:37,896\n那個頭像以及資訊那這部分確實也要來注意所以我剛才跟委員說明也曾經有當事人遇到這個狀況去跟警方報案他覺得他可能會被誤解那這方面希望說國安局可以多一些協助是因為國防部他們基本上第一個業務眾多那第二個可能他們在這個\n\n14\n00:04:39,517 --> 00:05:02,791\n除了這個被發布宣傳通告啊然後有這個接獲消息啊然後或者是說有報案的情況之下可能會去協處但是整體的這個情資的蒐集那我覺得國安局這裡如果能夠協同然後提供相關的這個訊息給國防部雙邊一起協處的話那會更完善因為像您剛提到的三個層次那三個層次都很重要\n\n15\n00:05:03,511 --> 00:05:31,257\n但是從國防部的角度來說他可能關注的比較多是他們自己國防部本身新站大隊的成員所以希望在這整個三個層次上面國安局能夠多多給予國防部更多的協助跟委員說明一下因為那個征戰局本來也就是我們國安情報機關的一個成員所以我們應該會透過我們的機制來另外有一個問題就是關於這個中這個央廣的微波站入侵的這個問題\n\n16\n00:05:34,578 --> 00:05:55,387\n這個當時因為央廣其實是我們國家重要的基礎設施先前有點時間了10月15號的事情那時候我本來就想要詢問不過時間的關係有三名內鬼工程師攻擊官網然後放置中共的五星旗的資安事件當時也有不少的委員來做詢問\n\n17\n00:05:56,627 --> 00:06:18,033\n但是另外在去年9月的時候在陽廣的後方圓山山腰的微波站是不是也有一起外籍人士入侵的事件就是說一個德國籍的年輕人他用觀光的名義入境無故侵入了微波發射台的機房內意外遭到反鎖他就沒有辦法離開\n\n18\n00:06:19,213 --> 00:06:47,949\n那這個人呢他試圖想要開門但花了好幾個小時那沒有成功那最後呢這個發給德國跟家人朋友求救那後來向外交部去報案那在這個情況之下那國安局對於類似的情況有沒有掌握然後呢像這種到了我們的關鍵基礎設施因為不管他的國籍是什麼他都有可能是都有可能不是說這個人都有可能是被滲透的情況\n\n19\n00:06:48,709 --> 00:07:15,146\n因為呢那今天你要滲透或者是說要入侵關鍵基礎設施他不一定要他本國籍的人來做這件事情他也可以委託或是暗示或者是用滲透他國的國籍人員的方式來做這件事情所以說對於我們的關鍵基礎設施不管他是遭到哪一個國籍的人去進去裡面一整個晚上那其實他就是一個關鍵基礎設施的重大漏洞\n\n20\n00:07:15,646 --> 00:07:39,524\n所以我想要問的就是說以這個事情為例我們在關鍵基礎設施上面要怎麼樣的去做一個國安局有怎麼樣的一個想法就是說我們做好保防的這個措施那盡量就避免不管是說先前的這個大家比較關注的五星旗的這個資安事件或者我覺得更嚴重的是它人直接就進到了這個這個發射機房裡面\n\n21\n00:07:43,948 --> 00:08:00,730\n那可不可以請這個局長幫我們做一個說明委員說的沒有錯因為央廣不是一般的廣播公司它在國家緊急危難的時候是負責公眾傳播的所以是定位為關鍵基礎設施那關鍵基礎設施的維護行政院有相關的跨部會的匯報\n\n22\n00:08:01,491 --> 00:08:21,958\n那委員所提到的問題我們會我們是成員部委會報的成員我們會來做比較完整的反應大概有兩個重點一個部分是資安的部分那剛剛也在跟馬文君委員做說明很多委外的這些資安公司他可能有一些涉入的背景那這個部分可能要做一個比較完整的規範那第二個是實體安全的部分\n\n23\n00:08:22,378 --> 00:08:44,042\n那公司被不明人士入侵的話那這個部分就代表可能在保安或是保全的維護措施是真的是有明顯的不足當然就關鍵基礎設施的防護在進入到國家比較特殊的狀態之下是會派遣相關的兵力來保護的但是委員在提醒的是在平常情況就應該要更關注這樣的\n\n24\n00:08:44,802 --> 00:09:06,387\n因為他在那個微波發射站機台機房裡面那如果今天這個人他代表這裡有重大的漏洞他如果他今天真的有什麼樣的一個他去輸入發射或是他做任何的這個指示可能就會造成整個我們國家的錯誤的這個消息來源所以說既然有一個外籍人士他就可以跑進去了\n\n25\n00:09:06,787 --> 00:09:29,993\n代表這裡有漏洞那希望可以重新檢視這一些在陳平時期非戰時的關鍵基礎設施那有沒有一些實體上面的漏洞除了資安之外實體上的漏洞那重新的去檢查一次避免類似的情況發生就行政院的那個關鍵基礎設施的防護匯報的話我們來把委員剛剛的意見來做一個表達謝謝徐小青委員局長請回接下來進行詢問\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1774\t4856\t謝謝主席 我們是不是有請國安局長來 局長請好 謝謝主席 需要有人找\n12146\t35937\t早 那今天想要詢問就是在月中的時候那中共官方呢他們呢其實也不是第一次了那他們有貼出這個懸賞我國這個新戰大隊人員的個資跟照片那當然我知道他是隸屬國防部的政戰局新戰大隊但是呢他這個是攸關國安問題所以今天也想要來詢問一下國安局的\n37177\t58123\t那除了這個國防部主管之外那我想要請問國安局在這個議題上面的研究那狀態到底是什麼樣子然後呢後續有沒有能夠協處的這個情形謝委員關切這個問題因為這涉及到我們國軍官兵的個資還有甚至是人身安全\n58963\t81819\t那已經有幾波的中共公佈這樣的我們的國軍官兵的個資那大概的狀況有點就是在進行所謂的常備管轄進行這種心理戰或輿論的一個恫嚇那這些名單以委員現在畫面所呈現的新戰大隊來講那有很多是中共方面他透過公開情資去做拼湊的\n83180\t107034\t委員可能會知道因為新戰隊的這些相關的國軍官兵的同仁他們有的都是在我們的國軍的媒體當記者包括像是那個青年日報或是漢森電台所以從公開情資就可以收集到早年歷來的這些相關的個資那中共只是把這些過去公開的個資做拼湊\n107654\t120162\t那一些照片也貼錯了然後那個身份也都是錯誤的那甚至可以跟我們報告還有當事人跑去警局報案我理解喔因為我有看到相關的新聞但是因為這個錯誤的資訊喔它也有錯誤資訊衍生的這個問題\n125626\t139708\t就是說呢他現在發布這個懸賞通告那如果他有一些是錯誤的資訊那但是有這樣子一個當事人那他未來他可能這個到港澳或者是說他到中國大陸的時候他被懸賞了那他可能其實\n140469\t161651\t他可以去的原因是因為他根本就不是他根本就不是我們的星戰的這個隊員那他當然他是沒有管制嘛那他當然是可以到大陸或是港澳那結果呢他竟然是在因為一個錯誤資訊然後是被懸賞的這個狀態那對這上面的這些當事人來說是不是他就變成是一個缺乏保護的機制\n162552\t185462\t那我們在國安局在這整個包含是我們這個星戰大隊實際上面就是說正確的資訊的引力避免這個中共的這個掌握或是滲透以及錯誤的資訊上面如何去保障我們國人他不管在旅遊或者是他平常時行動的這個安全上面那局長這裡有沒有一些可以提供說明跟參考\n186082\t206183\t大概跟委員做幾個面向的資訊的補充跟說明那第一個部分是怎麼樣來防範有國軍官兵弟兄的個資外流的部分那這個議題因為前一陣子馬文君委員也有關切那也希望本局提供一個本局的做法來給國防部的單位做參考\n206724\t233966\t那我們已經有完整的把這個本局的做法跟馬委員這邊提供書面的報告那也把這個書面的報告提供給國防部做參考希望能夠來阻止進一步的國軍官兵弟兄資訊的外流這是第一部分那第二部分是有一些被外流的這些名單那假如是過去曾經在國防部服役的弟兄因為剛剛有跟委員說明因為過去的公開情資有可能國軍包括接受頒獎還有擔任記者都會有名單外流\n234286\t259086\t那這部分國防部我來幫國防部說明一下雖然不是我的夜館那他們有一個輔導的機制那會逐一的來跟這些同仁來做接觸跟說明那看有沒有要協助的地方包括他們的家人那有沒有在假如到對岸去經商旅遊遭到刁難所以是有一個機制在的那再來就是委員所提到的第三種狀況他不是當事人但是被貼錯了\n260307\t277896\t那個頭像以及資訊那這部分確實也要來注意所以我剛才跟委員說明也曾經有當事人遇到這個狀況去跟警方報案他覺得他可能會被誤解那這方面希望說國安局可以多一些協助是因為國防部他們基本上第一個業務眾多那第二個可能他們在這個\n279517\t302791\t除了這個被發布宣傳通告啊然後有這個接獲消息啊然後或者是說有報案的情況之下可能會去協處但是整體的這個情資的蒐集那我覺得國安局這裡如果能夠協同然後提供相關的這個訊息給國防部雙邊一起協處的話那會更完善因為像您剛提到的三個層次那三個層次都很重要\n303511\t331257\t但是從國防部的角度來說他可能關注的比較多是他們自己國防部本身新站大隊的成員所以希望在這整個三個層次上面國安局能夠多多給予國防部更多的協助跟委員說明一下因為那個征戰局本來也就是我們國安情報機關的一個成員所以我們應該會透過我們的機制來另外有一個問題就是關於這個中這個央廣的微波站入侵的這個問題\n334578\t355387\t這個當時因為央廣其實是我們國家重要的基礎設施先前有點時間了10月15號的事情那時候我本來就想要詢問不過時間的關係有三名內鬼工程師攻擊官網然後放置中共的五星旗的資安事件當時也有不少的委員來做詢問\n356627\t378033\t但是另外在去年9月的時候在陽廣的後方圓山山腰的微波站是不是也有一起外籍人士入侵的事件就是說一個德國籍的年輕人他用觀光的名義入境無故侵入了微波發射台的機房內意外遭到反鎖他就沒有辦法離開\n379213\t407949\t那這個人呢他試圖想要開門但花了好幾個小時那沒有成功那最後呢這個發給德國跟家人朋友求救那後來向外交部去報案那在這個情況之下那國安局對於類似的情況有沒有掌握然後呢像這種到了我們的關鍵基礎設施因為不管他的國籍是什麼他都有可能是都有可能不是說這個人都有可能是被滲透的情況\n408709\t435146\t因為呢 那今天你要滲透或者是說要入侵關鍵基礎設施他不一定要他本國籍的人來做這件事情他也可以委託或是暗示或者是用滲透他國的國籍人員的方式來做這件事情所以說對於我們的關鍵基礎設施不管他是遭到哪一個國籍的人去進去裡面一整個晚上那其實他就是一個關鍵基礎設施的重大漏洞\n435646\t459524\t所以我想要問的就是說以這個事情為例我們在關鍵基礎設施上面要怎麼樣的去做一個國安局有怎麼樣的一個想法就是說我們做好保防的這個措施那盡量就避免不管是說先前的這個大家比較關注的五星旗的這個資安事件或者我覺得更嚴重的是它人直接就進到了這個這個發射機房裡面\n463948\t480730\t那可不可以請這個局長幫我們做一個說明委員說的沒有錯因為央廣不是一般的廣播公司它在國家緊急危難的時候是負責公眾傳播的所以是定位為關鍵基礎設施那關鍵基礎設施的維護行政院有相關的跨部會的匯報\n481491\t501958\t那委員所提到的問題我們會我們是成員部委會報的成員我們會來做比較完整的反應大概有兩個重點一個部分是資安的部分那剛剛也在跟馬文君委員做說明很多委外的這些資安公司他可能有一些涉入的背景那這個部分可能要做一個比較完整的規範那第二個是實體安全的部分\n502378\t524042\t那公司被不明人士入侵的話那這個部分就代表可能在保安或是保全的維護措施是真的是有明顯的不足當然就關鍵基礎設施的防護在進入到國家比較特殊的狀態之下是會派遣相關的兵力來保護的但是委員在提醒的是在平常情況就應該要更關注這樣的\n524802\t546387\t因為他在那個微波發射站機台機房裡面那如果今天這個人他代表這裡有重大的漏洞他如果他今天真的有什麼樣的一個他去輸入發射或是他做任何的這個指示可能就會造成整個我們國家的錯誤的這個消息來源所以說既然有一個外籍人士他就可以跑進去了\n546787\t569993\t代表這裡有漏洞那希望可以重新檢視這一些在陳平時期非戰時的關鍵基礎設施那有沒有一些實體上面的漏洞除了資安之外實體上的漏洞那重新的去檢查一次避免類似的情況發生就行政院的那個關鍵基礎設施的防護匯報的話我們來把委員剛剛的意見來做一個表達謝謝徐小青委員局長請回接下來進行詢問\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們是不是有請國安局長來 局長請好 謝謝主席 需要有人找\n早 那今天想要詢問就是在月中的時候那中共官方呢他們呢其實也不是第一次了那他們有貼出這個懸賞我國這個新戰大隊人員的個資跟照片那當然我知道他是隸屬國防部的政戰局新戰大隊但是呢他這個是攸關國安問題所以今天也想要來詢問一下國安局的\n那除了這個國防部主管之外那我想要請問國安局在這個議題上面的研究那狀態到底是什麼樣子然後呢後續有沒有能夠協處的這個情形謝委員關切這個問題因為這涉及到我們國軍官兵的個資還有甚至是人身安全\n那已經有幾波的中共公佈這樣的我們的國軍官兵的個資那大概的狀況有點就是在進行所謂的常備管轄進行這種心理戰或輿論的一個恫嚇那這些名單以委員現在畫面所呈現的新戰大隊來講那有很多是中共方面他透過公開情資去做拼湊的\n委員可能會知道因為新戰隊的這些相關的國軍官兵的同仁他們有的都是在我們的國軍的媒體當記者包括像是那個青年日報或是漢森電台所以從公開情資就可以收集到早年歷來的這些相關的個資那中共只是把這些過去公開的個資做拼湊\n那一些照片也貼錯了然後那個身份也都是錯誤的那甚至可以跟我們報告還有當事人跑去警局報案我理解喔因為我有看到相關的新聞但是因為這個錯誤的資訊喔它也有錯誤資訊衍生的這個問題\n就是說呢他現在發布這個懸賞通告那如果他有一些是錯誤的資訊那但是有這樣子一個當事人那他未來他可能這個到港澳或者是說他到中國大陸的時候他被懸賞了那他可能其實\n他可以去的原因是因為他根本就不是他根本就不是我們的星戰的這個隊員那他當然他是沒有管制嘛那他當然是可以到大陸或是港澳那結果呢他竟然是在因為一個錯誤資訊然後是被懸賞的這個狀態那對這上面的這些當事人來說是不是他就變成是一個缺乏保護的機制\n那我們在國安局在這整個包含是我們這個星戰大隊實際上面就是說正確的資訊的引力避免這個中共的這個掌握或是滲透以及錯誤的資訊上面如何去保障我們國人他不管在旅遊或者是他平常時行動的這個安全上面那局長這裡有沒有一些可以提供說明跟參考\n大概跟委員做幾個面向的資訊的補充跟說明那第一個部分是怎麼樣來防範有國軍官兵弟兄的個資外流的部分那這個議題因為前一陣子馬文君委員也有關切那也希望本局提供一個本局的做法來給國防部的單位做參考\n那我們已經有完整的把這個本局的做法跟馬委員這邊提供書面的報告那也把這個書面的報告提供給國防部做參考希望能夠來阻止進一步的國軍官兵弟兄資訊的外流這是第一部分那第二部分是有一些被外流的這些名單那假如是過去曾經在國防部服役的弟兄因為剛剛有跟委員說明因為過去的公開情資有可能國軍包括接受頒獎還有擔任記者都會有名單外流\n那這部分國防部我來幫國防部說明一下雖然不是我的夜館那他們有一個輔導的機制那會逐一的來跟這些同仁來做接觸跟說明那看有沒有要協助的地方包括他們的家人那有沒有在假如到對岸去經商旅遊遭到刁難所以是有一個機制在的那再來就是委員所提到的第三種狀況他不是當事人但是被貼錯了\n那個頭像以及資訊那這部分確實也要來注意所以我剛才跟委員說明也曾經有當事人遇到這個狀況去跟警方報案他覺得他可能會被誤解那這方面希望說國安局可以多一些協助是因為國防部他們基本上第一個業務眾多那第二個可能他們在這個\n除了這個被發布宣傳通告啊然後有這個接獲消息啊然後或者是說有報案的情況之下可能會去協處但是整體的這個情資的蒐集那我覺得國安局這裡如果能夠協同然後提供相關的這個訊息給國防部雙邊一起協處的話那會更完善因為像您剛提到的三個層次那三個層次都很重要\n但是從國防部的角度來說他可能關注的比較多是他們自己國防部本身新站大隊的成員所以希望在這整個三個層次上面國安局能夠多多給予國防部更多的協助跟委員說明一下因為那個征戰局本來也就是我們國安情報機關的一個成員所以我們應該會透過我們的機制來另外有一個問題就是關於這個中這個央廣的微波站入侵的這個問題\n這個當時因為央廣其實是我們國家重要的基礎設施先前有點時間了10月15號的事情那時候我本來就想要詢問不過時間的關係有三名內鬼工程師攻擊官網然後放置中共的五星旗的資安事件當時也有不少的委員來做詢問\n但是另外在去年9月的時候在陽廣的後方圓山山腰的微波站是不是也有一起外籍人士入侵的事件就是說一個德國籍的年輕人他用觀光的名義入境無故侵入了微波發射台的機房內意外遭到反鎖他就沒有辦法離開\n那這個人呢他試圖想要開門但花了好幾個小時那沒有成功那最後呢這個發給德國跟家人朋友求救那後來向外交部去報案那在這個情況之下那國安局對於類似的情況有沒有掌握然後呢像這種到了我們的關鍵基礎設施因為不管他的國籍是什麼他都有可能是都有可能不是說這個人都有可能是被滲透的情況\n因為呢 那今天你要滲透或者是說要入侵關鍵基礎設施他不一定要他本國籍的人來做這件事情他也可以委託或是暗示或者是用滲透他國的國籍人員的方式來做這件事情所以說對於我們的關鍵基礎設施不管他是遭到哪一個國籍的人去進去裡面一整個晚上那其實他就是一個關鍵基礎設施的重大漏洞\n所以我想要問的就是說以這個事情為例我們在關鍵基礎設施上面要怎麼樣的去做一個國安局有怎麼樣的一個想法就是說我們做好保防的這個措施那盡量就避免不管是說先前的這個大家比較關注的五星旗的這個資安事件或者我覺得更嚴重的是它人直接就進到了這個這個發射機房裡面\n那可不可以請這個局長幫我們做一個說明委員說的沒有錯因為央廣不是一般的廣播公司它在國家緊急危難的時候是負責公眾傳播的所以是定位為關鍵基礎設施那關鍵基礎設施的維護行政院有相關的跨部會的匯報\n那委員所提到的問題我們會我們是成員部委會報的成員我們會來做比較完整的反應大概有兩個重點一個部分是資安的部分那剛剛也在跟馬文君委員做說明很多委外的這些資安公司他可能有一些涉入的背景那這個部分可能要做一個比較完整的規範那第二個是實體安全的部分\n那公司被不明人士入侵的話那這個部分就代表可能在保安或是保全的維護措施是真的是有明顯的不足當然就關鍵基礎設施的防護在進入到國家比較特殊的狀態之下是會派遣相關的兵力來保護的但是委員在提醒的是在平常情況就應該要更關注這樣的\n因為他在那個微波發射站機台機房裡面那如果今天這個人他代表這裡有重大的漏洞他如果他今天真的有什麼樣的一個他去輸入發射或是他做任何的這個指示可能就會造成整個我們國家的錯誤的這個消息來源所以說既然有一個外籍人士他就可以跑進去了\n代表這裡有漏洞那希望可以重新檢視這一些在陳平時期非戰時的關鍵基礎設施那有沒有一些實體上面的漏洞除了資安之外實體上的漏洞那重新的去檢查一次避免類似的情況發生就行政院的那個關鍵基礎設施的防護匯報的話我們來把委員剛剛的意見來做一個表達謝謝徐小青委員局長請回接下來進行詢問\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.774 --> 00:04.856\n謝謝主席我們是不是有請國安局長來局長請好謝謝主席需要有人找\n\n00:12.146 --> 00:35.937\n早那今天想要詢問就是在月中的時候那中共官方呢他們呢其實也不是第一次了那他們有貼出這個懸賞我國這個新戰大隊人員的個資跟照片那當然我知道他是隸屬國防部的政戰局新戰大隊但是呢他這個是攸關國安問題所以今天也想要來詢問一下國安局的\n\n00:37.177 --> 00:58.123\n那除了這個國防部主管之外那我想要請問國安局在這個議題上面的研究那狀態到底是什麼樣子然後呢後續有沒有能夠協處的這個情形謝委員關切這個問題因為這涉及到我們國軍官兵的個資還有甚至是人身安全\n\n00:58.963 --> 01:21.819\n那已經有幾波的中共公佈這樣的我們的國軍官兵的個資那大概的狀況有點就是在進行所謂的常備管轄進行這種心理戰或輿論的一個恫嚇那這些名單以委員現在畫面所呈現的新戰大隊來講那有很多是中共方面他透過公開情資去做拼湊的\n\n01:23.180 --> 01:47.034\n委員可能會知道因為新戰隊的這些相關的國軍官兵的同仁他們有的都是在我們的國軍的媒體當記者包括像是那個青年日報或是漢森電台所以從公開情資就可以收集到早年歷來的這些相關的個資那中共只是把這些過去公開的個資做拼湊\n\n01:47.654 --> 02:00.162\n那一些照片也貼錯了然後那個身份也都是錯誤的那甚至可以跟我們報告還有當事人跑去警局報案我理解喔因為我有看到相關的新聞但是因為這個錯誤的資訊喔它也有錯誤資訊衍生的這個問題\n\n02:05.626 --> 02:19.708\n就是說呢他現在發布這個懸賞通告那如果他有一些是錯誤的資訊那但是有這樣子一個當事人那他未來他可能這個到港澳或者是說他到中國大陸的時候他被懸賞了那他可能其實\n\n02:20.469 --> 02:41.651\n他可以去的原因是因為他根本就不是他根本就不是我們的星戰的這個隊員那他當然他是沒有管制嘛那他當然是可以到大陸或是港澳那結果呢他竟然是在因為一個錯誤資訊然後是被懸賞的這個狀態那對這上面的這些當事人來說是不是他就變成是一個缺乏保護的機制\n\n02:42.552 --> 03:05.462\n那我們在國安局在這整個包含是我們這個星戰大隊實際上面就是說正確的資訊的引力避免這個中共的這個掌握或是滲透以及錯誤的資訊上面如何去保障我們國人他不管在旅遊或者是他平常時行動的這個安全上面那局長這裡有沒有一些可以提供說明跟參考\n\n03:06.082 --> 03:26.183\n大概跟委員做幾個面向的資訊的補充跟說明那第一個部分是怎麼樣來防範有國軍官兵弟兄的個資外流的部分那這個議題因為前一陣子馬文君委員也有關切那也希望本局提供一個本局的做法來給國防部的單位做參考\n\n03:26.724 --> 03:53.966\n那我們已經有完整的把這個本局的做法跟馬委員這邊提供書面的報告那也把這個書面的報告提供給國防部做參考希望能夠來阻止進一步的國軍官兵弟兄資訊的外流這是第一部分那第二部分是有一些被外流的這些名單那假如是過去曾經在國防部服役的弟兄因為剛剛有跟委員說明因為過去的公開情資有可能國軍包括接受頒獎還有擔任記者都會有名單外流\n\n03:54.286 --> 04:19.086\n那這部分國防部我來幫國防部說明一下雖然不是我的夜館那他們有一個輔導的機制那會逐一的來跟這些同仁來做接觸跟說明那看有沒有要協助的地方包括他們的家人那有沒有在假如到對岸去經商旅遊遭到刁難所以是有一個機制在的那再來就是委員所提到的第三種狀況他不是當事人但是被貼錯了\n\n04:20.307 --> 04:37.896\n那個頭像以及資訊那這部分確實也要來注意所以我剛才跟委員說明也曾經有當事人遇到這個狀況去跟警方報案他覺得他可能會被誤解那這方面希望說國安局可以多一些協助是因為國防部他們基本上第一個業務眾多那第二個可能他們在這個\n\n04:39.517 --> 05:02.791\n除了這個被發布宣傳通告啊然後有這個接獲消息啊然後或者是說有報案的情況之下可能會去協處但是整體的這個情資的蒐集那我覺得國安局這裡如果能夠協同然後提供相關的這個訊息給國防部雙邊一起協處的話那會更完善因為像您剛提到的三個層次那三個層次都很重要\n\n05:03.511 --> 05:31.257\n但是從國防部的角度來說他可能關注的比較多是他們自己國防部本身新站大隊的成員所以希望在這整個三個層次上面國安局能夠多多給予國防部更多的協助跟委員說明一下因為那個征戰局本來也就是我們國安情報機關的一個成員所以我們應該會透過我們的機制來另外有一個問題就是關於這個中這個央廣的微波站入侵的這個問題\n\n05:34.578 --> 05:55.387\n這個當時因為央廣其實是我們國家重要的基礎設施先前有點時間了10月15號的事情那時候我本來就想要詢問不過時間的關係有三名內鬼工程師攻擊官網然後放置中共的五星旗的資安事件當時也有不少的委員來做詢問\n\n05:56.627 --> 06:18.033\n但是另外在去年9月的時候在陽廣的後方圓山山腰的微波站是不是也有一起外籍人士入侵的事件就是說一個德國籍的年輕人他用觀光的名義入境無故侵入了微波發射台的機房內意外遭到反鎖他就沒有辦法離開\n\n06:19.213 --> 06:47.949\n那這個人呢他試圖想要開門但花了好幾個小時那沒有成功那最後呢這個發給德國跟家人朋友求救那後來向外交部去報案那在這個情況之下那國安局對於類似的情況有沒有掌握然後呢像這種到了我們的關鍵基礎設施因為不管他的國籍是什麼他都有可能是都有可能不是說這個人都有可能是被滲透的情況\n\n06:48.709 --> 07:15.146\n因為呢那今天你要滲透或者是說要入侵關鍵基礎設施他不一定要他本國籍的人來做這件事情他也可以委託或是暗示或者是用滲透他國的國籍人員的方式來做這件事情所以說對於我們的關鍵基礎設施不管他是遭到哪一個國籍的人去進去裡面一整個晚上那其實他就是一個關鍵基礎設施的重大漏洞\n\n07:15.646 --> 07:39.524\n所以我想要問的就是說以這個事情為例我們在關鍵基礎設施上面要怎麼樣的去做一個國安局有怎麼樣的一個想法就是說我們做好保防的這個措施那盡量就避免不管是說先前的這個大家比較關注的五星旗的這個資安事件或者我覺得更嚴重的是它人直接就進到了這個這個發射機房裡面\n\n07:43.948 --> 08:00.730\n那可不可以請這個局長幫我們做一個說明委員說的沒有錯因為央廣不是一般的廣播公司它在國家緊急危難的時候是負責公眾傳播的所以是定位為關鍵基礎設施那關鍵基礎設施的維護行政院有相關的跨部會的匯報\n\n08:01.491 --> 08:21.958\n那委員所提到的問題我們會我們是成員部委會報的成員我們會來做比較完整的反應大概有兩個重點一個部分是資安的部分那剛剛也在跟馬文君委員做說明很多委外的這些資安公司他可能有一些涉入的背景那這個部分可能要做一個比較完整的規範那第二個是實體安全的部分\n\n08:22.378 --> 08:44.042\n那公司被不明人士入侵的話那這個部分就代表可能在保安或是保全的維護措施是真的是有明顯的不足當然就關鍵基礎設施的防護在進入到國家比較特殊的狀態之下是會派遣相關的兵力來保護的但是委員在提醒的是在平常情況就應該要更關注這樣的\n\n08:44.802 --> 09:06.387\n因為他在那個微波發射站機台機房裡面那如果今天這個人他代表這裡有重大的漏洞他如果他今天真的有什麼樣的一個他去輸入發射或是他做任何的這個指示可能就會造成整個我們國家的錯誤的這個消息來源所以說既然有一個外籍人士他就可以跑進去了\n\n09:06.787 --> 09:29.993\n代表這裡有漏洞那希望可以重新檢視這一些在陳平時期非戰時的關鍵基礎設施那有沒有一些實體上面的漏洞除了資安之外實體上的漏洞那重新的去檢查一次避免類似的情況發生就行政院的那個關鍵基礎設施的防護匯報的話我們來把委員剛剛的意見來做一個表達謝謝徐小青委員局長請回接下來進行詢問\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.774,"end":4.856,"text":"謝謝主席 我們是不是有請國安局長來 局長請好 謝謝主席 需要有人找"},{"start":12.146,"end":35.937,"text":"早 那今天想要詢問就是在月中的時候那中共官方呢他們呢其實也不是第一次了那他們有貼出這個懸賞我國這個新戰大隊人員的個資跟照片那當然我知道他是隸屬國防部的政戰局新戰大隊但是呢他這個是攸關國安問題所以今天也想要來詢問一下國安局的"},{"start":37.177,"end":58.123,"text":"那除了這個國防部主管之外那我想要請問國安局在這個議題上面的研究那狀態到底是什麼樣子然後呢後續有沒有能夠協處的這個情形謝委員關切這個問題因為這涉及到我們國軍官兵的個資還有甚至是人身安全"},{"start":58.963,"end":81.819,"text":"那已經有幾波的中共公佈這樣的我們的國軍官兵的個資那大概的狀況有點就是在進行所謂的常備管轄進行這種心理戰或輿論的一個恫嚇那這些名單以委員現在畫面所呈現的新戰大隊來講那有很多是中共方面他透過公開情資去做拼湊的"},{"start":83.18,"end":107.034,"text":"委員可能會知道因為新戰隊的這些相關的國軍官兵的同仁他們有的都是在我們的國軍的媒體當記者包括像是那個青年日報或是漢森電台所以從公開情資就可以收集到早年歷來的這些相關的個資那中共只是把這些過去公開的個資做拼湊"},{"start":107.654,"end":120.162,"text":"那一些照片也貼錯了然後那個身份也都是錯誤的那甚至可以跟我們報告還有當事人跑去警局報案我理解喔因為我有看到相關的新聞但是因為這個錯誤的資訊喔它也有錯誤資訊衍生的這個問題"},{"start":125.626,"end":139.708,"text":"就是說呢他現在發布這個懸賞通告那如果他有一些是錯誤的資訊那但是有這樣子一個當事人那他未來他可能這個到港澳或者是說他到中國大陸的時候他被懸賞了那他可能其實"},{"start":140.469,"end":161.651,"text":"他可以去的原因是因為他根本就不是他根本就不是我們的星戰的這個隊員那他當然他是沒有管制嘛那他當然是可以到大陸或是港澳那結果呢他竟然是在因為一個錯誤資訊然後是被懸賞的這個狀態那對這上面的這些當事人來說是不是他就變成是一個缺乏保護的機制"},{"start":162.552,"end":185.462,"text":"那我們在國安局在這整個包含是我們這個星戰大隊實際上面就是說正確的資訊的引力避免這個中共的這個掌握或是滲透以及錯誤的資訊上面如何去保障我們國人他不管在旅遊或者是他平常時行動的這個安全上面那局長這裡有沒有一些可以提供說明跟參考"},{"start":186.082,"end":206.183,"text":"大概跟委員做幾個面向的資訊的補充跟說明那第一個部分是怎麼樣來防範有國軍官兵弟兄的個資外流的部分那這個議題因為前一陣子馬文君委員也有關切那也希望本局提供一個本局的做法來給國防部的單位做參考"},{"start":206.724,"end":233.966,"text":"那我們已經有完整的把這個本局的做法跟馬委員這邊提供書面的報告那也把這個書面的報告提供給國防部做參考希望能夠來阻止進一步的國軍官兵弟兄資訊的外流這是第一部分那第二部分是有一些被外流的這些名單那假如是過去曾經在國防部服役的弟兄因為剛剛有跟委員說明因為過去的公開情資有可能國軍包括接受頒獎還有擔任記者都會有名單外流"},{"start":234.286,"end":259.086,"text":"那這部分國防部我來幫國防部說明一下雖然不是我的夜館那他們有一個輔導的機制那會逐一的來跟這些同仁來做接觸跟說明那看有沒有要協助的地方包括他們的家人那有沒有在假如到對岸去經商旅遊遭到刁難所以是有一個機制在的那再來就是委員所提到的第三種狀況他不是當事人但是被貼錯了"},{"start":260.307,"end":277.896,"text":"那個頭像以及資訊那這部分確實也要來注意所以我剛才跟委員說明也曾經有當事人遇到這個狀況去跟警方報案他覺得他可能會被誤解那這方面希望說國安局可以多一些協助是因為國防部他們基本上第一個業務眾多那第二個可能他們在這個"},{"start":279.517,"end":302.791,"text":"除了這個被發布宣傳通告啊然後有這個接獲消息啊然後或者是說有報案的情況之下可能會去協處但是整體的這個情資的蒐集那我覺得國安局這裡如果能夠協同然後提供相關的這個訊息給國防部雙邊一起協處的話那會更完善因為像您剛提到的三個層次那三個層次都很重要"},{"start":303.511,"end":331.257,"text":"但是從國防部的角度來說他可能關注的比較多是他們自己國防部本身新站大隊的成員所以希望在這整個三個層次上面國安局能夠多多給予國防部更多的協助跟委員說明一下因為那個征戰局本來也就是我們國安情報機關的一個成員所以我們應該會透過我們的機制來另外有一個問題就是關於這個中這個央廣的微波站入侵的這個問題"},{"start":334.578,"end":355.387,"text":"這個當時因為央廣其實是我們國家重要的基礎設施先前有點時間了10月15號的事情那時候我本來就想要詢問不過時間的關係有三名內鬼工程師攻擊官網然後放置中共的五星旗的資安事件當時也有不少的委員來做詢問"},{"start":356.627,"end":378.033,"text":"但是另外在去年9月的時候在陽廣的後方圓山山腰的微波站是不是也有一起外籍人士入侵的事件就是說一個德國籍的年輕人他用觀光的名義入境無故侵入了微波發射台的機房內意外遭到反鎖他就沒有辦法離開"},{"start":379.213,"end":407.949,"text":"那這個人呢他試圖想要開門但花了好幾個小時那沒有成功那最後呢這個發給德國跟家人朋友求救那後來向外交部去報案那在這個情況之下那國安局對於類似的情況有沒有掌握然後呢像這種到了我們的關鍵基礎設施因為不管他的國籍是什麼他都有可能是都有可能不是說這個人都有可能是被滲透的情況"},{"start":408.709,"end":435.146,"text":"因為呢 那今天你要滲透或者是說要入侵關鍵基礎設施他不一定要他本國籍的人來做這件事情他也可以委託或是暗示或者是用滲透他國的國籍人員的方式來做這件事情所以說對於我們的關鍵基礎設施不管他是遭到哪一個國籍的人去進去裡面一整個晚上那其實他就是一個關鍵基礎設施的重大漏洞"},{"start":435.646,"end":459.524,"text":"所以我想要問的就是說以這個事情為例我們在關鍵基礎設施上面要怎麼樣的去做一個國安局有怎麼樣的一個想法就是說我們做好保防的這個措施那盡量就避免不管是說先前的這個大家比較關注的五星旗的這個資安事件或者我覺得更嚴重的是它人直接就進到了這個這個發射機房裡面"},{"start":463.948,"end":480.73,"text":"那可不可以請這個局長幫我們做一個說明委員說的沒有錯因為央廣不是一般的廣播公司它在國家緊急危難的時候是負責公眾傳播的所以是定位為關鍵基礎設施那關鍵基礎設施的維護行政院有相關的跨部會的匯報"},{"start":481.491,"end":501.958,"text":"那委員所提到的問題我們會我們是成員部委會報的成員我們會來做比較完整的反應大概有兩個重點一個部分是資安的部分那剛剛也在跟馬文君委員做說明很多委外的這些資安公司他可能有一些涉入的背景那這個部分可能要做一個比較完整的規範那第二個是實體安全的部分"},{"start":502.378,"end":524.042,"text":"那公司被不明人士入侵的話那這個部分就代表可能在保安或是保全的維護措施是真的是有明顯的不足當然就關鍵基礎設施的防護在進入到國家比較特殊的狀態之下是會派遣相關的兵力來保護的但是委員在提醒的是在平常情況就應該要更關注這樣的"},{"start":524.802,"end":546.387,"text":"因為他在那個微波發射站機台機房裡面那如果今天這個人他代表這裡有重大的漏洞他如果他今天真的有什麼樣的一個他去輸入發射或是他做任何的這個指示可能就會造成整個我們國家的錯誤的這個消息來源所以說既然有一個外籍人士他就可以跑進去了"},{"start":546.787,"end":569.993,"text":"代表這裡有漏洞那希望可以重新檢視這一些在陳平時期非戰時的關鍵基礎設施那有沒有一些實體上面的漏洞除了資安之外實體上的漏洞那重新的去檢查一次避免類似的情況發生就行政院的那個關鍵基礎設施的防護匯報的話我們來把委員剛剛的意見來做一個表達謝謝徐小青委員局長請回接下來進行詢問"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":187,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時4分）謝謝主席，是不是有請國安局長？"],["主席：請局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席。徐委員早。"],["徐委員巧芯：早！今天想要詢問就是在月中的時候，中共官方其實也不是第一次，他們有貼出懸賞我國心戰大隊人員的個資跟照片，當然我知道這是隸屬國防部政戰局心戰大隊，但這個是攸關國安問題，所以今天也想要來詢問一下國安局的看法。"],["蔡局長明彥：好。"],["徐委員巧芯：除了國防部主管之外，我想要請問國安局在這個議題上面的研究狀態到底是什麼樣子？後續有沒有能夠協處的情形？"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員關切這個問題，因為這涉及到國軍官兵的個資甚至是人身安全。中共已經公布了幾波我們國軍官兵的個資，大概的狀況有點就是在進行所謂長臂管轄這種心理戰或輿論的恫嚇。這些名單以委員現在畫面所呈現的心戰大隊來講，很多是中共方面透過公開情資去拼湊的。委員可能也知道，心戰大隊這些相關的國軍官兵同仁，他們有的都是在我們國軍的媒體當記者，包括像是青年日報或是漢聲電台，所以從公開情資就可以蒐集到早年、歷來的相關個資，中共只是把過去這些公開的個資做拼湊，有些照片也貼錯了，身分也都是錯誤的，甚至可以跟委員報告，還有當事人跑去警局報案的……"],["徐委員巧芯：我理解，因為我也有看到相關新聞。"],["蔡局長明彥：對，所以我的意思是，那些是錯誤的資訊。"],["徐委員巧芯：但是因為這個錯誤的資訊也會有錯誤資訊衍生的問題。"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：它現在發布這個懸賞通告，如果有一些是錯誤的資訊，但卻有這樣的一個當事人，未來他可能到港澳或者是到中國大陸的時候，因為他被懸賞了，但他可以去的原因其實可能是因為他根本就不是我們的心戰隊員而沒被管制，他當然就可以到大陸或是港澳，結果他竟然就因為一個錯誤的資訊而處於被懸賞的狀態，這對上面的這些當事人來說是不是就變成了一個缺乏保護的機制？"],["蔡局長明彥：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：我們在國安局、在包含這個心戰大隊實際上……正確資訊的隱匿係為避免中共的掌握或滲透，對於錯誤的資訊要如何保障國人不管在旅遊或者是平常行動的安全？局長這裡有沒有一些可以提供說明跟參考的？"],["蔡局長明彥：好，大概跟委員做幾個面向的資訊補充跟說明。第一個部分是怎麼防範我國軍官兵弟兄個資外流的部分，這個議題因為前一陣子馬文君委員也有關切，也希望本局提供一個本局的作法給國防部的單位做參考。我們已經完整地把本局的作法向馬委員提供書面的報告，也把這個書面的報告提供給國防部做參考，希望能夠阻止國軍官兵弟兄的資訊被進一步地外流，這是第一個部分。","第二個部分是，有一些被外流的名單，假如是過去曾經在國防部服役的弟兄，因為剛剛有跟委員說明，過去的公開情資國軍有可能包括接受頒獎、擔任記者都會有名單外流。這部分我要幫國防部說明一下，雖然這不是我的業管，他們有一個輔導的機制，會逐一地跟這些同仁接觸跟說明，看有沒有要協助的地方，包括他們的家人假如到對岸去經商、旅遊遭到刁難，所以是有一個機制在的。","再來就是委員所提到的第三種狀況，他不是當事人，但是被貼錯了頭像以及資訊，這部分確實也要注意，所以我剛才也跟委員說明，也曾經有當事人遇到這種狀況而去跟警方報案，他覺得他可能會被……"],["徐委員巧芯：好，這方面希望國安局可以多協助一些，因為國防部基本上第一個他們業務眾多；第二個，他們可能除了被發布懸賞通告，然後有接獲消息，或者是在有報案的情況之下，可能要去協處，但是對於整體情資的蒐集，我覺得國安局這裡如果能夠協同，然後提供相關的訊息給國防部，由雙邊一起協處的話就會更完善。","因為像您剛剛提到的三個層次，那三個層次都很重要，但是從國防部的角度來說，它關注比較多的可能是他們國防部自己本身心戰大隊的成員，所以希望在這三個層次上面，國安局能夠給予國防部更多的協助。"],["蔡局長明彥：有。跟委員說明一下，因為政戰局本來就是我們國安情報機關的成員……"],["徐委員巧芯：是，我知道。"],["蔡局長明彥：我們應該會透過我們的機制來協助。"],["徐委員巧芯：另外有個問題是，關於央廣微波站被入侵的問題，因為央廣是我們國家重要的基礎設施，先前在10月15號算是有點時間的事情，那個時候我本來就想詢問，不過受限於時間的關係。有3名內鬼工程師攻擊官網並放置中共五星旗的資安事件，當時也有不少委員詢問過；另外在去年9月的時候，央廣後方（圓山山腰的微波站）是不是也有一起外籍人士入侵的事件？就是說，有個德國籍的年輕人，他用觀光的名義入境，無故侵入微波發射台的機房內，意外遭到反鎖而無法離開。這個人試圖想要開門，但卻花了好幾個小時都沒有成功，最後只好發給德國的家人、朋友求救，後來也向外交部報案。","在這個情況之下，國安局對於類似的情況有沒有掌握？像這種到了我們的關鍵基礎設施的……因為不管他的國籍是什麼，他都有可能（我不是指這個人）是被滲透的情況。"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為今天你要滲透或者是要入侵關鍵基礎設施，並不一定要本國籍的人來做這件事情，也可以委託、暗示或是用滲透他國國籍人員的方式來做這件事情，所以對於我們的關鍵基礎設施，不管是遭到哪一個國籍的人進去裡面一整個晚上，它其實就是一個關鍵基礎設施的重大漏洞。"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我想問的是，以這個事情為例，我們在關鍵基礎設施上面要怎麼去防護，國安局有怎樣的想法？也就是我們要做好保防的措施，儘量去避免不管是先前大家比較關注的五星旗資安事件，或者是更嚴重的，人直接就進到了發射機房裡面，可不可以請局長幫我們做個說明？"],["蔡局長明彥：好。委員說的沒錯，因為央廣不是一般的廣播公司，它在國家緊急危難的時候是負責公眾傳播的，所以被定位為關鍵基礎設施。有關關鍵基礎設施的維護，行政院有相關跨部會的會報，而我們是成員。對於委員所提到的問題，我們會做比較完整的反映。大概有兩個重點，一個是資安的部分，剛剛也跟馬文君委員說明過了，很多委外的資安公司可能有一些涉入的背景，這個部分可能要做一個比較完整的規範。","第二個是實體安全的部分，公司被不明人士入侵的話，這個部分就代表可能在保安或保全的維護措施上是真的有明顯地不足。當然，就關鍵基礎設施的防護上，在進入到國家比較特殊的狀態之下，是會派遣相關的兵力來保護的。但委員在提醒的是，在平常的情況就應該要更關注這樣的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：是啊！因為他是在微波發射站的基台、機房裡面，代表這裡有重大的漏洞，如果他今天真的有什麼樣的舉動，像是去輸入發射或是做出任何的指示，可能就會造成我們整個國家錯誤的消息來源。"],["蔡局長明彥：當然。"],["徐委員巧芯：既然有一個外籍人士可以跑進去，代表這裡有漏洞，希望可以重新檢視這些在承平時期、非戰時的關鍵基礎設施除了資安之外，有沒有一些實體上面的漏洞，請重新檢查一次，以避免類似的情況發生，好嗎？"],["蔡局長明彥：就行政院的關鍵基礎設施的防護會報，我們會把委員剛剛的意見做一個表達。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐巧芯委員，局長請回。","接下來進行詢答的是謝龍介委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-9","speakers":["王定宇","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","謝龍介","葉元之","賴士葆","郭昱晴","邱志偉","黃仁","沈伯洋","林憶君","陳冠廷"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局報告「近期東亞情勢變化對我國影響之研析」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00005"}}}