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對不對所以你這個新聞稿是不是有漏洞用字引起了誤會甚至是自己前後就矛盾了嘛所以我們把它更正好好不好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 219.861, \"end\": 219.961, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 219.961, \"end\": 220.041, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 220.041, \"end\": 220.121, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 220.121, \"end\": 220.442, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 220.442, \"end\": 220.562, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 220.562, \"end\": 220.702, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 220.702, \"end\": 220.802, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 220.802, \"end\": 221.062, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 221.062, \"end\": 221.262, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 221.262, \"end\": 222.283, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 222.283, \"end\": 222.403, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 222.403, \"end\": 222.503, 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\"end\": 814.402, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"引\", \"start\": 814.402, \"end\": 814.762, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 814.762, \"end\": 815.002, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"演\", \"start\": 815.002, \"end\": 815.102, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"練\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 815.102, \"end\": 815.282, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 815.282, \"end\": 815.382, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 815.382, \"end\": 815.682, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 815.682, \"end\": 815.702, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,093 --> 00:00:24,864\n謝謝你原屬啊你原屬\n\n2\n00:00:29,725 --> 00:00:48,227\n謝謝主席請到國務部長國務部長謝謝站位好國務部長拜一就前天台灣有好多個環保團體到行政院跟立法院來陳情\n\n3\n00:00:49,537 --> 00:01:11,406\n他們抗議的是說包括烏山頭水庫設這個光電板等他們說最近光電有十大亂象所以他們提出了十大這個訴求我看你們經濟部回應也蠻快的你們當天的下午就對於他們的訴求有提出這個回應這部分的快速回應我要加以肯定不過呢\n\n4\n00:01:12,725 --> 00:01:38,026\n我看你們的這個回應的新聞稿啊好像出現了前後矛盾這環保團體明確要求說有些地方設光電板要納入環評包括國家公園以及環境敏感區我看你的新聞裡面回應你說來博定你看一下這是你們自己發的新聞稿嘛是回應的嘛你說\n\n5\n00:01:39,229 --> 00:02:03,746\n一級環境敏感區山坡地等訴求都已經納入有嗎目前你們跟環境部你們兩位都猛點頭有確定有納入嗎環評法裡面國家公園啊野生動物保護區啊還有這個山坡地如果超過15公頃以上的就是你這邊現在都要環評現行的規定就是要環評\n\n6\n00:02:04,935 --> 00:02:33,192\n這些規定一級環境敏感區我找你叫你們我有印出來喔你們這個標準裡面沒有出現這個字眼啊是一級這個是一個我不曉得怎麼去定義但是我們明確的就是國家公園還有山坡地如果是沒有沒有沒有不定不定國家公園跟山坡地是另外的一級環境敏感區是另外專有名詞是一個明定的對不對\n\n7\n00:02:34,554 --> 00:02:53,742\n那裡面沒有嘛我跟你講一級敏感地區我們本來就不會核准他本來就禁止來來來這專有名詞耶你頂法律要照條文來這個是內政部國土署環境敏感地區查詢平台上面寫的這不能隨便隨便亂講耶來看一下22項包括什麼\n\n8\n00:03:03,649 --> 00:03:20,796\n包括第21項水庫的集水區包括水庫的蓄水範圍有嗎所以柏定你們現在是已經公布說包括烏山頭水庫包括所有的水庫蓄水範圍的全部都要做環評嗎\n\n9\n00:03:22,443 --> 00:03:38,650\n這個水庫跟那個蓄水範圍因為它一定有法令的規定所以我們是依照其他法令的規定所以你看這個新聞稿就自打嘴巴了嘛你講的這個一級環境敏感區這個是專有名詞是明定的我現在給你看的是國土屬清清楚楚名列的\n\n10\n00:03:39,861 --> 00:03:59,037\n那如果照這樣就是你就跟全國公布好消息就包括現在開始水庫上面的任何光電板都要還平是不是這樣結果沒有嘛你們又沒有還沒做這個嘛對不對所以你這個新聞稿是不是有漏洞用字引起了誤會甚至是自己前後就矛盾了嘛所以我們把它更正好好不好\n\n11\n00:04:00,064 --> 00:04:20,774\n好這個我們可以來釐清如果它裡面有特別反應的話你看你的新聞過來回到新聞館再看一下你說把一級的敏感區域已經全部都納入嘛結果你下面又寫一個說其他項目例如說水庫的水面你們正在做這個相關的檢討\n\n12\n00:04:23,260 --> 00:04:47,514\n這個就前後就矛盾了嘛所以趕快更正好不好好OK我本來以為是好消息我今天本來很期待說如果不是前後矛盾就是你們已經因為像我們台灣民眾島就明確我們也在討論我們要求說5公頃設置光電板5公頃以上1萬千瓦以上的就要環評嘛你們說還沒訂嘛對不對所以你這個新聞稿是有錯誤的嘛趕快把它更正好好不好好來趕快把它更正好接下來\n\n13\n00:04:48,715 --> 00:05:17,712\n是不是出現了環境部打臉了經濟部啊來我看您來我們看下一張你講到這個水庫上面光電板水上光電板這個到底有沒有毒的你們發了一個新聞稿說啊經過你們這個專業的這個測試啊RO逆滲透水這個浸泡毀壞光電板這光電板毀壞了破碎了你們去做了實驗七天以後水質跟這個飲用水標準還是符合的\n\n14\n00:05:18,298 --> 00:05:19,912\n那我要問的很重要那三個月後呢\n\n15\n00:05:23,155 --> 00:05:45,904\n這個水質的測試那麼我們自來水公司它進水的時候每天都有做測試那剛才講這個是工研院當時做的7日測試當然要做更長也可以我說你說7天安全我說如果三個月以後有安全嗎來我看一下你看你們的標準你們的飲水飲水安全的標準是什麼用鉛來做你們的飲水安全是1公升0.01毫克對不對這個是合乎標準對不對\n\n16\n00:05:52,042 --> 00:06:11,763\n好來看一下這是環境部做的環境部做的喔上去環境部的網站上面看那個投影片現在都還找得到他說把光電板破碎浸泡一個月跟三個月的簽的容出量\n\n17\n00:06:13,555 --> 00:06:29,790\n這邊紅胎咖哩這邊但那是紅胎光電板不是被破壞了對不對破碎啦有些沉到水裡面去啦那來看依照環境部的這個模擬容數的簽在一個月的時候0.00076到了三個月0.298\n\n18\n00:06:37,844 --> 00:06:53,150\n保證0.298這個容數非常嚴重耶這就是已經超過你的飲水水質的標準你剛才看的安全就是0.01嘛對不對他是那幾倍他是幾倍他有兩個很重要來來保證你們說安全是0.01對不對這個是水源啦0.029是在水源區嘛水源區的話是0.05\n\n19\n00:07:05,569 --> 00:07:12,462\n對0.05的標準那你要飲用水還要經過過濾處理啊等等一些情況那為什麼環境部要去做烏山土的這個水質的測驗\n\n20\n00:07:14,926 --> 00:07:34,403\n你看這是他們做的啊本來你整個水庫的水質就是要做測驗啊文建部也這樣做啊那我給你看他做出來的來上一張做出來的他做出來的是什麼包括烏山頭水庫的你如他去取樣嘛對不對他說如果浸泡完之後一個月七天沒問題嘛對不對他一個月沒問題啊\n\n21\n00:07:37,742 --> 00:07:48,196\n可是沙灰的問題啊它有兩個很嚴重的問題第一個它超標的你們說的安全的標準沙灰沒有沒有超標它是小於0.05啊它是小於0.05啊這個飲用的這個水質飲用水源啊那右邊那個呢\n\n22\n00:07:54,173 --> 00:08:13,981\n那個是以後你說的是水質那是處理後的右邊那個是處理完以後我們對啊所以他們全部就是環境部全部這兩個都做嘛你懂我意思嗎那你至少當然水質水源水質是要符合的水質當然也是要標準的啊你先來看我要先講兩個重點來來來第一個來你聽我說聽我說第一他的\n\n23\n00:08:20,934 --> 00:08:41,668\n0.029超過了原來的水質標準的3倍更嚴重是什麼來來來你做個比較1月份你聽我說啦民眾有這個疑問嘛我們開過會很多民眾在投訴這個事情嘛1月到3月增加幾倍39.2倍就表示你這個事情保定只要你這個事情沒有做好\n\n24\n00:08:43,203 --> 00:09:07,296\n他的簽的容數量一直在增加嘛一個月你自己新聞稿跟民眾講說7天7天沒問題對不對你自己也做檢測說7天沒問題啊結果一個月已經開始慢慢有問題了更嚴重的過三個月多了39.2倍那現在嚴重在什麼地方我現在跟你講一個很重要的不只是環境部他們自己去做的烏山頭水質還做了這個破碎的這個整個測驗那我們看下一張嘉義這邊紅苔\n\n25\n00:09:13,311 --> 00:09:36,938\n聯合報啊聯合報在9月19號就是颱風過後的兩個多月聯合報喔去做專題報導去追裡面還有很多的是毀壞的光電板還躺在水裡我到了三個月就剛講了過了三個月我店面給你看裡面有很多光電板說禮拜一很多這個環保團體來\n\n26\n00:09:39,922 --> 00:10:07,116\n來陳情的時候他們特別提什麼森林城市協會的理事長莊傑任他怎麼說他說這邊虹胎造成的這個製虹紙或者水面的這個整個掉到裡面去他說什麼光電板存入水下難以打撈清楚歐盛聯盟裡一個月到三個月增加那麼多到現在有些可能都還沒清出來現在要怎麼辦簽一直在釋出嘛對不對\n\n27\n00:10:08,571 --> 00:10:28,865\n簽的容量還一直在釋出嘛你到現在可能還簽不乾淨我可以講一個很重要的很多民眾在旁邊像那個嘉義市的志鴻池旁邊有很多民眾在那邊垂釣釣回去那個魚有民眾叫我今天問你啦說那個魚釣回來給部長吃給能源署署長吃\n\n28\n00:10:34,417 --> 00:11:02,876\n我說我不要這樣問你可是你們是不是有責任志鴻池不能有魚啦志鴻池不能有魚志鴻池不能有魚每個志鴻池都買有魚你等一下去看你每次去都買看到有人在那邊垂釣不行啊裡面就是有魚啊所以民眾說叫我問你啊說釣回來給你吃好不好我說不要這樣問部長你們的責任就是趕快把它打撈乾淨然後更重要的不要讓那個錢繼續存在危害民眾好不好\n\n29\n00:11:04,549 --> 00:11:26,263\n我們還是會持續檢驗啦因為我們原水的部分只要進到我們飲用水的部分原水就會檢驗一次飲用水也會檢驗一次啦到目前為止來講的話都沒有超過標準容量容息量非常的少而且人體危害很厲害好不好而且我剛才跟你講它影響有多大你看氫對健康有多大影響\n\n30\n00:11:28,423 --> 00:11:42,417\n幾乎對人體內所有器官跟系統都有影響所以我們取水的時候取水點就會檢測取水點那個部分就會檢測所以你要盡量減少嘛對不對來我給你看它的傷害有多大嘛影響成人跟孩童的神經系統\n\n31\n00:11:43,814 --> 00:12:12,639\n然後呢他不要講長期曝露喔只要曝露就導致會貧血血壓升高特別是小孩子你看下面這個我幫你整理了牽對孩童的健康部長你把詳細的資料能夠跟我們的委員做報告這個很重要不要有讓人家誤解的地方再麻煩部長謝謝因為時間已經到了我儘快一分鐘儘快做結論來往下跑我現在跟你講特別對小孩影響很大那日本日本都發生了\n\n32\n00:12:13,599 --> 00:12:41,989\n在水庫上面的它不是飲水的它是一般的灌溉用的發生了這個風災的時候火災那光電板當然那個簽了那個壞掉以後簽那個容疏就更嚴重了對不對結果發現要去消防要去滅火非常的困難在台灣發生的是什麼看來台灣經濟咱們台南這個漁電工生也發生了那個光電板起火消防人員沒辦法馬上去救火你知道嗎水是倒體嘛\n\n33\n00:12:43,254 --> 00:13:07,873\n對不對會顛倒捏所以我說光電板火災或者是它發生有災難的時候你們要怎麼救災避免光電板壞掉以後融到水裡面牽絲這要做好最後做這個訴求來第一個趕快去釐清剛你承認的那個你所謂的水庫或水面上水上型的光電板你到底什麼狀況下要做環評你剛承認那個新聞稿有錯誤嘛對不對\n\n34\n00:13:08,593 --> 00:13:35,702\n所以趕快去把它更正把標準把它明確的定出來那第二個目前有很多地方包括水庫自風室上面都有光電板你要去加強它的安全這個維護好不好第三個很重要我剛才說的打撈那環保團體前天來行政院就跟你們講嘛打撈不乾淨那你們要趕快去打撈要想想辦法不能讓那個鉛這樣一直在釋出好不好然後剛剛講的就是如果發生這個災難的時候我們要去救活要有一個指引做演練好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1093\t24864\t謝謝你原屬啊你原屬\n29725\t48227\t謝謝 主席 請到國務部長國務部長 謝謝站位好國務部長 拜一就前天台灣有好多個環保團體到行政院跟立法院來陳情\n49537\t71406\t他們抗議的是說包括烏山頭水庫設這個光電板等他們說最近光電有十大亂象所以他們提出了十大這個訴求我看你們經濟部回應也蠻快的你們當天的下午就對於他們的訴求有提出這個回應這部分的快速回應我要加以肯定不過呢\n72725\t98026\t我看你們的這個回應的新聞稿啊好像出現了前後矛盾這環保團體明確要求說有些地方設光電板要納入環評包括國家公園以及環境敏感區我看你的新聞裡面回應你說 來 博定你看一下這是你們自己發的新聞稿嘛是回應的嘛你說\n99229\t123746\t一級環境敏感區山坡地等訴求都已經納入有嗎 目前你們跟環境部你們兩位都猛點頭有確定有納入嗎環評法裡面國家公園啊野生動物保護區啊還有這個山坡地如果超過15公頃以上的就是你這邊現在都要環評現行的規定就是要環評\n124935\t153192\t這些規定 一級環境敏感區我找你叫你們 我有印出來喔你們這個標準裡面沒有出現這個字眼啊是 一級 這個是一個我不曉得怎麼去定義但是我們明確的就是國家公園還有山坡地如果是沒有沒有沒有 不定不定國家公園跟山坡地是另外的一級環境敏感區是另外專有名詞是一個明定的 對不對\n154554\t173742\t那裡面沒有嘛 我跟你講一級敏感地區我們本來就不會核准他本來就禁止來來來 這專有名詞耶你頂法律要照條文來這個是內政部國土署環境敏感地區查詢平台上面寫的這不能隨便 隨便亂講耶來 看一下22項包括什麼\n183649\t200796\t包括第21項水庫的集水區包括水庫的蓄水範圍有嗎所以柏定你們現在是已經公布說包括烏山頭水庫包括所有的水庫蓄水範圍的全部都要做環評嗎\n202443\t218650\t這個水庫跟那個蓄水範圍因為它一定有法令的規定所以我們是依照其他法令的規定所以你看這個新聞稿就自打嘴巴了嘛你講的這個一級環境敏感區這個是專有名詞是明定的我現在給你看的是國土屬清清楚楚名列的\n219861\t239037\t那如果照這樣就是你就跟全國公布好消息就包括現在開始水庫上面的任何光電板都要還平是不是這樣結果沒有嘛 你們又沒有還沒做這個嘛 對不對所以你這個新聞稿是不是有漏洞用字引起了誤會甚至是自己前後就矛盾了嘛所以我們把它更正好好不好\n240064\t260774\t好 這個我們可以來釐清 如果它裡面有特別反應的話你看你的新聞過來 回到新聞館再看一下你說把一級的敏感區域已經全部都納入嘛結果你下面又寫一個說其他項目 例如說水庫的水面你們正在做這個相關的檢討\n263260\t287514\t這個就前後就矛盾了嘛所以趕快更正好不好好OK我本來以為是好消息我今天本來很期待說如果不是前後矛盾就是你們已經因為像我們台灣民眾島就明確我們也在討論我們要求說5公頃設置光電板5公頃以上1萬千瓦以上的就要環評嘛你們說還沒訂嘛對不對所以你這個新聞稿是有錯誤的嘛趕快把它更正好好不好好來趕快把它更正好接下來\n288715\t317712\t是不是出現了環境部打臉了經濟部啊來我看您來我們看下一張你講到這個水庫上面光電板水上光電板這個到底有沒有毒的你們發了一個新聞稿說啊經過你們這個專業的這個測試啊RO逆滲透水這個浸泡毀壞光電板這光電板毀壞了破碎了你們去做了實驗七天以後水質跟這個飲用水標準還是符合的\n318298\t319912\t那我要問的很重要那三個月後呢\n323155\t345904\t這個水質的測試那麼我們自來水公司它進水的時候每天都有做測試那剛才講這個是工研院當時做的7日測試當然要做更長也可以我說你說7天安全我說如果三個月以後有安全嗎來我看一下你看你們的標準你們的飲水飲水安全的標準是什麼用鉛來做你們的飲水安全是1公升0.01毫克對不對這個是合乎標準對不對\n352042\t371763\t好來看一下這是環境部做的環境部做的喔上去環境部的網站上面看那個投影片現在都還找得到他說把光電板破碎浸泡一個月跟三個月的簽的容出量\n373555\t389790\t這邊紅胎 咖哩這邊 但那是紅胎 光電板不是被破壞了對不對破碎啦 有些沉到水裡面去啦 那來看依照環境部的這個模擬容數的簽在一個月的時候 0.00076到了三個月 0.298\n397844\t413150\t保證0.298這個容數非常嚴重耶這就是已經超過你的飲水水質的標準你剛才看的安全就是0.01嘛 對不對他是那幾倍他是幾倍 他有兩個很重要 來來保證你們說安全是0.01對不對這個是水源啦 0.029是在水源區嘛水源區的話是0.05\n425569\t432462\t對0.05的標準那你要飲用水還要經過過濾處理啊等等一些情況那為什麼環境部要去做烏山土的這個水質的測驗\n434926\t454403\t你看這是他們做的啊本來你整個水庫的水質就是要做測驗啊文建部也這樣做啊那我給你看他做出來的來上一張做出來的他做出來的是什麼包括烏山頭水庫的你如他去取樣嘛對不對他說如果浸泡完之後一個月七天沒問題嘛對不對他一個月沒問題啊\n457742\t468196\t可是 沙灰的問題啊 它有兩個很嚴重的問題第一個 它超標的 你們說的安全的標準沙灰沒有沒有超標 它是小於0.05啊它是小於0.05啊 這個飲用的這個水質 飲用水源啊那右邊那個呢\n474173\t493981\t那個是以後 你說的是水質 那是處理後的 右邊那個是處理完以後我們 對啊 所以他們全部 就是環境部全部這兩個都做嘛你懂我意思嗎 那你至少 當然水質水源水質是要符合的 水質當然也是要標準的啊你先來看 我要先講兩個重點來來來 第一個來 你聽我說 聽我說 第一他的\n500934\t521668\t0.029超過了原來的水質標準的3倍 更嚴重是什麼來來來 你做個比較1月份 你聽我說啦民眾有這個疑問嘛我們開過會很多民眾在投訴這個事情嘛1月到3月增加幾倍39.2倍就表示你這個事情 保定只要你這個事情沒有做好\n523203\t547296\t他的簽的容數量一直在增加嘛一個月你自己新聞稿跟民眾講說7天7天沒問題對不對你自己也做檢測說7天沒問題啊結果一個月已經開始慢慢有問題了更嚴重的過三個月多了39.2倍那現在嚴重在什麼地方我現在跟你講一個很重要的不只是環境部他們自己去做的烏山頭水質還做了這個破碎的這個整個測驗那我們看下一張嘉義這邊紅苔\n553311\t576938\t聯合報啊 聯合報在9月19號 就是颱風過後的兩個多月 聯合報喔 去做專題報導 去追裡面還有很多的是毀壞的光電板 還躺在水裡我到了三個月 就剛講了 過了三個月 我店面給你看 裡面有很多光電板說禮拜一 很多這個環保團體來\n579922\t607116\t來陳情的時候 他們特別提什麼森林城市協會的理事長莊傑任他怎麼說他說這邊虹胎造成的這個製虹紙或者水面的這個整個掉到裡面去 他說什麼光電板存入水下 難以打撈清楚歐盛聯盟裡一個月到三個月增加那麼多到現在有些可能都還沒清出來現在要怎麼辦 簽一直在釋出嘛 對不對\n608571\t628865\t簽的容量還一直在釋出嘛你到現在可能還簽不乾淨我可以講一個很重要的很多民眾在旁邊像那個嘉義市的志鴻池旁邊有很多民眾在那邊垂釣釣回去那個魚有民眾叫我今天問你啦說那個魚釣回來給部長吃給能源署署長吃\n634417\t662876\t我說我不要這樣問你可是你們是不是有責任志鴻池不能有魚啦志鴻池不能有魚志鴻池不能有魚每個志鴻池都買有魚你等一下去看你每次去都買看到有人在那邊垂釣不行啊裡面就是有魚啊所以民眾說叫我問你啊說釣回來給你吃好不好我說不要這樣問部長你們的責任就是趕快把它打撈乾淨然後更重要的不要讓那個錢繼續存在危害民眾好不好\n664549\t686263\t我們還是會持續檢驗啦因為我們原水的部分只要進到我們飲用水的部分原水就會檢驗一次飲用水也會檢驗一次啦到目前為止來講的話都沒有超過標準容量容息量非常的少而且人體危害很厲害好不好而且我剛才跟你講它影響有多大你看 氫對健康有多大影響\n688423\t702417\t幾乎對人體內所有器官跟系統都有影響所以我們取水的時候取水點就會檢測取水點那個部分就會檢測所以你要盡量減少嘛 對不對來 我給你看它的傷害有多大嘛影響成人跟孩童的神經系統\n703814\t732639\t然後呢他不要講長期曝露喔只要曝露就導致會貧血血壓升高特別是小孩子你看下面這個我幫你整理了牽對孩童的健康部長你把詳細的資料能夠跟我們的委員做報告這個很重要不要有讓人家誤解的地方再麻煩部長謝謝因為時間已經到了我儘快一分鐘儘快做結論來往下跑我現在跟你講特別對小孩影響很大那日本日本都發生了\n733599\t761989\t在水庫上面的它不是飲水的它是一般的灌溉用的發生了這個風災的時候火災那光電板當然那個簽了那個壞掉以後簽那個容疏就更嚴重了對不對結果發現要去消防要去滅火非常的困難在台灣發生的是什麼看來台灣經濟咱們台南這個漁電工生也發生了那個光電板起火消防人員沒辦法馬上去救火你知道嗎水是倒體嘛\n763254\t787873\t對不對 會顛倒捏所以我說光電板火災或者是它發生有災難的時候你們要怎麼救災避免光電板壞掉以後融到水裡面牽絲這要做好最後做這個訴求來第一個 趕快去釐清剛你承認的那個你所謂的水庫或水面上水上型的光電板你到底什麼狀況下要做環評你剛承認那個新聞稿有錯誤嘛 對不對\n788593\t815702\t所以趕快去把它更正把標準把它明確的定出來那第二個目前有很多地方包括水庫自風室上面都有光電板你要去加強它的安全這個維護好不好第三個很重要我剛才說的打撈那環保團體前天來行政院就跟你們講嘛打撈不乾淨那你們要趕快去打撈要想想辦法不能讓那個鉛這樣一直在釋出好不好然後剛剛講的就是如果發生這個災難的時候我們要去救活要有一個指引做演練好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝你原屬啊你原屬\n謝謝 主席 請到國務部長國務部長 謝謝站位好國務部長 拜一就前天台灣有好多個環保團體到行政院跟立法院來陳情\n他們抗議的是說包括烏山頭水庫設這個光電板等他們說最近光電有十大亂象所以他們提出了十大這個訴求我看你們經濟部回應也蠻快的你們當天的下午就對於他們的訴求有提出這個回應這部分的快速回應我要加以肯定不過呢\n我看你們的這個回應的新聞稿啊好像出現了前後矛盾這環保團體明確要求說有些地方設光電板要納入環評包括國家公園以及環境敏感區我看你的新聞裡面回應你說 來 博定你看一下這是你們自己發的新聞稿嘛是回應的嘛你說\n一級環境敏感區山坡地等訴求都已經納入有嗎 目前你們跟環境部你們兩位都猛點頭有確定有納入嗎環評法裡面國家公園啊野生動物保護區啊還有這個山坡地如果超過15公頃以上的就是你這邊現在都要環評現行的規定就是要環評\n這些規定 一級環境敏感區我找你叫你們 我有印出來喔你們這個標準裡面沒有出現這個字眼啊是 一級 這個是一個我不曉得怎麼去定義但是我們明確的就是國家公園還有山坡地如果是沒有沒有沒有 不定不定國家公園跟山坡地是另外的一級環境敏感區是另外專有名詞是一個明定的 對不對\n那裡面沒有嘛 我跟你講一級敏感地區我們本來就不會核准他本來就禁止來來來 這專有名詞耶你頂法律要照條文來這個是內政部國土署環境敏感地區查詢平台上面寫的這不能隨便 隨便亂講耶來 看一下22項包括什麼\n包括第21項水庫的集水區包括水庫的蓄水範圍有嗎所以柏定你們現在是已經公布說包括烏山頭水庫包括所有的水庫蓄水範圍的全部都要做環評嗎\n這個水庫跟那個蓄水範圍因為它一定有法令的規定所以我們是依照其他法令的規定所以你看這個新聞稿就自打嘴巴了嘛你講的這個一級環境敏感區這個是專有名詞是明定的我現在給你看的是國土屬清清楚楚名列的\n那如果照這樣就是你就跟全國公布好消息就包括現在開始水庫上面的任何光電板都要還平是不是這樣結果沒有嘛 你們又沒有還沒做這個嘛 對不對所以你這個新聞稿是不是有漏洞用字引起了誤會甚至是自己前後就矛盾了嘛所以我們把它更正好好不好\n好 這個我們可以來釐清 如果它裡面有特別反應的話你看你的新聞過來 回到新聞館再看一下你說把一級的敏感區域已經全部都納入嘛結果你下面又寫一個說其他項目 例如說水庫的水面你們正在做這個相關的檢討\n這個就前後就矛盾了嘛所以趕快更正好不好好OK我本來以為是好消息我今天本來很期待說如果不是前後矛盾就是你們已經因為像我們台灣民眾島就明確我們也在討論我們要求說5公頃設置光電板5公頃以上1萬千瓦以上的就要環評嘛你們說還沒訂嘛對不對所以你這個新聞稿是有錯誤的嘛趕快把它更正好好不好好來趕快把它更正好接下來\n是不是出現了環境部打臉了經濟部啊來我看您來我們看下一張你講到這個水庫上面光電板水上光電板這個到底有沒有毒的你們發了一個新聞稿說啊經過你們這個專業的這個測試啊RO逆滲透水這個浸泡毀壞光電板這光電板毀壞了破碎了你們去做了實驗七天以後水質跟這個飲用水標準還是符合的\n那我要問的很重要那三個月後呢\n這個水質的測試那麼我們自來水公司它進水的時候每天都有做測試那剛才講這個是工研院當時做的7日測試當然要做更長也可以我說你說7天安全我說如果三個月以後有安全嗎來我看一下你看你們的標準你們的飲水飲水安全的標準是什麼用鉛來做你們的飲水安全是1公升0.01毫克對不對這個是合乎標準對不對\n好來看一下這是環境部做的環境部做的喔上去環境部的網站上面看那個投影片現在都還找得到他說把光電板破碎浸泡一個月跟三個月的簽的容出量\n這邊紅胎 咖哩這邊 但那是紅胎 光電板不是被破壞了對不對破碎啦 有些沉到水裡面去啦 那來看依照環境部的這個模擬容數的簽在一個月的時候 0.00076到了三個月 0.298\n保證0.298這個容數非常嚴重耶這就是已經超過你的飲水水質的標準你剛才看的安全就是0.01嘛 對不對他是那幾倍他是幾倍 他有兩個很重要 來來保證你們說安全是0.01對不對這個是水源啦 0.029是在水源區嘛水源區的話是0.05\n對0.05的標準那你要飲用水還要經過過濾處理啊等等一些情況那為什麼環境部要去做烏山土的這個水質的測驗\n你看這是他們做的啊本來你整個水庫的水質就是要做測驗啊文建部也這樣做啊那我給你看他做出來的來上一張做出來的他做出來的是什麼包括烏山頭水庫的你如他去取樣嘛對不對他說如果浸泡完之後一個月七天沒問題嘛對不對他一個月沒問題啊\n可是 沙灰的問題啊 它有兩個很嚴重的問題第一個 它超標的 你們說的安全的標準沙灰沒有沒有超標 它是小於0.05啊它是小於0.05啊 這個飲用的這個水質 飲用水源啊那右邊那個呢\n那個是以後 你說的是水質 那是處理後的 右邊那個是處理完以後我們 對啊 所以他們全部 就是環境部全部這兩個都做嘛你懂我意思嗎 那你至少 當然水質水源水質是要符合的 水質當然也是要標準的啊你先來看 我要先講兩個重點來來來 第一個來 你聽我說 聽我說 第一他的\n0.029超過了原來的水質標準的3倍 更嚴重是什麼來來來 你做個比較1月份 你聽我說啦民眾有這個疑問嘛我們開過會很多民眾在投訴這個事情嘛1月到3月增加幾倍39.2倍就表示你這個事情 保定只要你這個事情沒有做好\n他的簽的容數量一直在增加嘛一個月你自己新聞稿跟民眾講說7天7天沒問題對不對你自己也做檢測說7天沒問題啊結果一個月已經開始慢慢有問題了更嚴重的過三個月多了39.2倍那現在嚴重在什麼地方我現在跟你講一個很重要的不只是環境部他們自己去做的烏山頭水質還做了這個破碎的這個整個測驗那我們看下一張嘉義這邊紅苔\n聯合報啊 聯合報在9月19號 就是颱風過後的兩個多月 聯合報喔 去做專題報導 去追裡面還有很多的是毀壞的光電板 還躺在水裡我到了三個月 就剛講了 過了三個月 我店面給你看 裡面有很多光電板說禮拜一 很多這個環保團體來\n來陳情的時候 他們特別提什麼森林城市協會的理事長莊傑任他怎麼說他說這邊虹胎造成的這個製虹紙或者水面的這個整個掉到裡面去 他說什麼光電板存入水下 難以打撈清楚歐盛聯盟裡一個月到三個月增加那麼多到現在有些可能都還沒清出來現在要怎麼辦 簽一直在釋出嘛 對不對\n簽的容量還一直在釋出嘛你到現在可能還簽不乾淨我可以講一個很重要的很多民眾在旁邊像那個嘉義市的志鴻池旁邊有很多民眾在那邊垂釣釣回去那個魚有民眾叫我今天問你啦說那個魚釣回來給部長吃給能源署署長吃\n我說我不要這樣問你可是你們是不是有責任志鴻池不能有魚啦志鴻池不能有魚志鴻池不能有魚每個志鴻池都買有魚你等一下去看你每次去都買看到有人在那邊垂釣不行啊裡面就是有魚啊所以民眾說叫我問你啊說釣回來給你吃好不好我說不要這樣問部長你們的責任就是趕快把它打撈乾淨然後更重要的不要讓那個錢繼續存在危害民眾好不好\n我們還是會持續檢驗啦因為我們原水的部分只要進到我們飲用水的部分原水就會檢驗一次飲用水也會檢驗一次啦到目前為止來講的話都沒有超過標準容量容息量非常的少而且人體危害很厲害好不好而且我剛才跟你講它影響有多大你看 氫對健康有多大影響\n幾乎對人體內所有器官跟系統都有影響所以我們取水的時候取水點就會檢測取水點那個部分就會檢測所以你要盡量減少嘛 對不對來 我給你看它的傷害有多大嘛影響成人跟孩童的神經系統\n然後呢他不要講長期曝露喔只要曝露就導致會貧血血壓升高特別是小孩子你看下面這個我幫你整理了牽對孩童的健康部長你把詳細的資料能夠跟我們的委員做報告這個很重要不要有讓人家誤解的地方再麻煩部長謝謝因為時間已經到了我儘快一分鐘儘快做結論來往下跑我現在跟你講特別對小孩影響很大那日本日本都發生了\n在水庫上面的它不是飲水的它是一般的灌溉用的發生了這個風災的時候火災那光電板當然那個簽了那個壞掉以後簽那個容疏就更嚴重了對不對結果發現要去消防要去滅火非常的困難在台灣發生的是什麼看來台灣經濟咱們台南這個漁電工生也發生了那個光電板起火消防人員沒辦法馬上去救火你知道嗎水是倒體嘛\n對不對 會顛倒捏所以我說光電板火災或者是它發生有災難的時候你們要怎麼救災避免光電板壞掉以後融到水裡面牽絲這要做好最後做這個訴求來第一個 趕快去釐清剛你承認的那個你所謂的水庫或水面上水上型的光電板你到底什麼狀況下要做環評你剛承認那個新聞稿有錯誤嘛 對不對\n所以趕快去把它更正把標準把它明確的定出來那第二個目前有很多地方包括水庫自風室上面都有光電板你要去加強它的安全這個維護好不好第三個很重要我剛才說的打撈那環保團體前天來行政院就跟你們講嘛打撈不乾淨那你們要趕快去打撈要想想辦法不能讓那個鉛這樣一直在釋出好不好然後剛剛講的就是如果發生這個災難的時候我們要去救活要有一個指引做演練好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.093 --> 00:24.864\n謝謝你原屬啊你原屬\n\n00:29.725 --> 00:48.227\n謝謝主席請到國務部長國務部長謝謝站位好國務部長拜一就前天台灣有好多個環保團體到行政院跟立法院來陳情\n\n00:49.537 --> 01:11.406\n他們抗議的是說包括烏山頭水庫設這個光電板等他們說最近光電有十大亂象所以他們提出了十大這個訴求我看你們經濟部回應也蠻快的你們當天的下午就對於他們的訴求有提出這個回應這部分的快速回應我要加以肯定不過呢\n\n01:12.725 --> 01:38.026\n我看你們的這個回應的新聞稿啊好像出現了前後矛盾這環保團體明確要求說有些地方設光電板要納入環評包括國家公園以及環境敏感區我看你的新聞裡面回應你說來博定你看一下這是你們自己發的新聞稿嘛是回應的嘛你說\n\n01:39.229 --> 02:03.746\n一級環境敏感區山坡地等訴求都已經納入有嗎目前你們跟環境部你們兩位都猛點頭有確定有納入嗎環評法裡面國家公園啊野生動物保護區啊還有這個山坡地如果超過15公頃以上的就是你這邊現在都要環評現行的規定就是要環評\n\n02:04.935 --> 02:33.192\n這些規定一級環境敏感區我找你叫你們我有印出來喔你們這個標準裡面沒有出現這個字眼啊是一級這個是一個我不曉得怎麼去定義但是我們明確的就是國家公園還有山坡地如果是沒有沒有沒有不定不定國家公園跟山坡地是另外的一級環境敏感區是另外專有名詞是一個明定的對不對\n\n02:34.554 --> 02:53.742\n那裡面沒有嘛我跟你講一級敏感地區我們本來就不會核准他本來就禁止來來來這專有名詞耶你頂法律要照條文來這個是內政部國土署環境敏感地區查詢平台上面寫的這不能隨便隨便亂講耶來看一下22項包括什麼\n\n03:03.649 --> 03:20.796\n包括第21項水庫的集水區包括水庫的蓄水範圍有嗎所以柏定你們現在是已經公布說包括烏山頭水庫包括所有的水庫蓄水範圍的全部都要做環評嗎\n\n03:22.443 --> 03:38.650\n這個水庫跟那個蓄水範圍因為它一定有法令的規定所以我們是依照其他法令的規定所以你看這個新聞稿就自打嘴巴了嘛你講的這個一級環境敏感區這個是專有名詞是明定的我現在給你看的是國土屬清清楚楚名列的\n\n03:39.861 --> 03:59.037\n那如果照這樣就是你就跟全國公布好消息就包括現在開始水庫上面的任何光電板都要還平是不是這樣結果沒有嘛你們又沒有還沒做這個嘛對不對所以你這個新聞稿是不是有漏洞用字引起了誤會甚至是自己前後就矛盾了嘛所以我們把它更正好好不好\n\n04:00.064 --> 04:20.774\n好這個我們可以來釐清如果它裡面有特別反應的話你看你的新聞過來回到新聞館再看一下你說把一級的敏感區域已經全部都納入嘛結果你下面又寫一個說其他項目例如說水庫的水面你們正在做這個相關的檢討\n\n04:23.260 --> 04:47.514\n這個就前後就矛盾了嘛所以趕快更正好不好好OK我本來以為是好消息我今天本來很期待說如果不是前後矛盾就是你們已經因為像我們台灣民眾島就明確我們也在討論我們要求說5公頃設置光電板5公頃以上1萬千瓦以上的就要環評嘛你們說還沒訂嘛對不對所以你這個新聞稿是有錯誤的嘛趕快把它更正好好不好好來趕快把它更正好接下來\n\n04:48.715 --> 05:17.712\n是不是出現了環境部打臉了經濟部啊來我看您來我們看下一張你講到這個水庫上面光電板水上光電板這個到底有沒有毒的你們發了一個新聞稿說啊經過你們這個專業的這個測試啊RO逆滲透水這個浸泡毀壞光電板這光電板毀壞了破碎了你們去做了實驗七天以後水質跟這個飲用水標準還是符合的\n\n05:18.298 --> 05:19.912\n那我要問的很重要那三個月後呢\n\n05:23.155 --> 05:45.904\n這個水質的測試那麼我們自來水公司它進水的時候每天都有做測試那剛才講這個是工研院當時做的7日測試當然要做更長也可以我說你說7天安全我說如果三個月以後有安全嗎來我看一下你看你們的標準你們的飲水飲水安全的標準是什麼用鉛來做你們的飲水安全是1公升0.01毫克對不對這個是合乎標準對不對\n\n05:52.042 --> 06:11.763\n好來看一下這是環境部做的環境部做的喔上去環境部的網站上面看那個投影片現在都還找得到他說把光電板破碎浸泡一個月跟三個月的簽的容出量\n\n06:13.555 --> 06:29.790\n這邊紅胎咖哩這邊但那是紅胎光電板不是被破壞了對不對破碎啦有些沉到水裡面去啦那來看依照環境部的這個模擬容數的簽在一個月的時候0.00076到了三個月0.298\n\n06:37.844 --> 06:53.150\n保證0.298這個容數非常嚴重耶這就是已經超過你的飲水水質的標準你剛才看的安全就是0.01嘛對不對他是那幾倍他是幾倍他有兩個很重要來來保證你們說安全是0.01對不對這個是水源啦0.029是在水源區嘛水源區的話是0.05\n\n07:05.569 --> 07:12.462\n對0.05的標準那你要飲用水還要經過過濾處理啊等等一些情況那為什麼環境部要去做烏山土的這個水質的測驗\n\n07:14.926 --> 07:34.403\n你看這是他們做的啊本來你整個水庫的水質就是要做測驗啊文建部也這樣做啊那我給你看他做出來的來上一張做出來的他做出來的是什麼包括烏山頭水庫的你如他去取樣嘛對不對他說如果浸泡完之後一個月七天沒問題嘛對不對他一個月沒問題啊\n\n07:37.742 --> 07:48.196\n可是沙灰的問題啊它有兩個很嚴重的問題第一個它超標的你們說的安全的標準沙灰沒有沒有超標它是小於0.05啊它是小於0.05啊這個飲用的這個水質飲用水源啊那右邊那個呢\n\n07:54.173 --> 08:13.981\n那個是以後你說的是水質那是處理後的右邊那個是處理完以後我們對啊所以他們全部就是環境部全部這兩個都做嘛你懂我意思嗎那你至少當然水質水源水質是要符合的水質當然也是要標準的啊你先來看我要先講兩個重點來來來第一個來你聽我說聽我說第一他的\n\n08:20.934 --> 08:41.668\n0.029超過了原來的水質標準的3倍更嚴重是什麼來來來你做個比較1月份你聽我說啦民眾有這個疑問嘛我們開過會很多民眾在投訴這個事情嘛1月到3月增加幾倍39.2倍就表示你這個事情保定只要你這個事情沒有做好\n\n08:43.203 --> 09:07.296\n他的簽的容數量一直在增加嘛一個月你自己新聞稿跟民眾講說7天7天沒問題對不對你自己也做檢測說7天沒問題啊結果一個月已經開始慢慢有問題了更嚴重的過三個月多了39.2倍那現在嚴重在什麼地方我現在跟你講一個很重要的不只是環境部他們自己去做的烏山頭水質還做了這個破碎的這個整個測驗那我們看下一張嘉義這邊紅苔\n\n09:13.311 --> 09:36.938\n聯合報啊聯合報在9月19號就是颱風過後的兩個多月聯合報喔去做專題報導去追裡面還有很多的是毀壞的光電板還躺在水裡我到了三個月就剛講了過了三個月我店面給你看裡面有很多光電板說禮拜一很多這個環保團體來\n\n09:39.922 --> 10:07.116\n來陳情的時候他們特別提什麼森林城市協會的理事長莊傑任他怎麼說他說這邊虹胎造成的這個製虹紙或者水面的這個整個掉到裡面去他說什麼光電板存入水下難以打撈清楚歐盛聯盟裡一個月到三個月增加那麼多到現在有些可能都還沒清出來現在要怎麼辦簽一直在釋出嘛對不對\n\n10:08.571 --> 10:28.865\n簽的容量還一直在釋出嘛你到現在可能還簽不乾淨我可以講一個很重要的很多民眾在旁邊像那個嘉義市的志鴻池旁邊有很多民眾在那邊垂釣釣回去那個魚有民眾叫我今天問你啦說那個魚釣回來給部長吃給能源署署長吃\n\n10:34.417 --> 11:02.876\n我說我不要這樣問你可是你們是不是有責任志鴻池不能有魚啦志鴻池不能有魚志鴻池不能有魚每個志鴻池都買有魚你等一下去看你每次去都買看到有人在那邊垂釣不行啊裡面就是有魚啊所以民眾說叫我問你啊說釣回來給你吃好不好我說不要這樣問部長你們的責任就是趕快把它打撈乾淨然後更重要的不要讓那個錢繼續存在危害民眾好不好\n\n11:04.549 --> 11:26.263\n我們還是會持續檢驗啦因為我們原水的部分只要進到我們飲用水的部分原水就會檢驗一次飲用水也會檢驗一次啦到目前為止來講的話都沒有超過標準容量容息量非常的少而且人體危害很厲害好不好而且我剛才跟你講它影響有多大你看氫對健康有多大影響\n\n11:28.423 --> 11:42.417\n幾乎對人體內所有器官跟系統都有影響所以我們取水的時候取水點就會檢測取水點那個部分就會檢測所以你要盡量減少嘛對不對來我給你看它的傷害有多大嘛影響成人跟孩童的神經系統\n\n11:43.814 --> 12:12.639\n然後呢他不要講長期曝露喔只要曝露就導致會貧血血壓升高特別是小孩子你看下面這個我幫你整理了牽對孩童的健康部長你把詳細的資料能夠跟我們的委員做報告這個很重要不要有讓人家誤解的地方再麻煩部長謝謝因為時間已經到了我儘快一分鐘儘快做結論來往下跑我現在跟你講特別對小孩影響很大那日本日本都發生了\n\n12:13.599 --> 12:41.989\n在水庫上面的它不是飲水的它是一般的灌溉用的發生了這個風災的時候火災那光電板當然那個簽了那個壞掉以後簽那個容疏就更嚴重了對不對結果發現要去消防要去滅火非常的困難在台灣發生的是什麼看來台灣經濟咱們台南這個漁電工生也發生了那個光電板起火消防人員沒辦法馬上去救火你知道嗎水是倒體嘛\n\n12:43.254 --> 13:07.873\n對不對會顛倒捏所以我說光電板火災或者是它發生有災難的時候你們要怎麼救災避免光電板壞掉以後融到水裡面牽絲這要做好最後做這個訴求來第一個趕快去釐清剛你承認的那個你所謂的水庫或水面上水上型的光電板你到底什麼狀況下要做環評你剛承認那個新聞稿有錯誤嘛對不對\n\n13:08.593 --> 13:35.702\n所以趕快去把它更正把標準把它明確的定出來那第二個目前有很多地方包括水庫自風室上面都有光電板你要去加強它的安全這個維護好不好第三個很重要我剛才說的打撈那環保團體前天來行政院就跟你們講嘛打撈不乾淨那你們要趕快去打撈要想想辦法不能讓那個鉛這樣一直在釋出好不好然後剛剛講的就是如果發生這個災難的時候我們要去救活要有一個指引做演練好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.093,"end":24.864,"text":"謝謝你原屬啊你原屬"},{"start":29.725,"end":48.227,"text":"謝謝 主席 請到國務部長國務部長 謝謝站位好國務部長 拜一就前天台灣有好多個環保團體到行政院跟立法院來陳情"},{"start":49.537,"end":71.406,"text":"他們抗議的是說包括烏山頭水庫設這個光電板等他們說最近光電有十大亂象所以他們提出了十大這個訴求我看你們經濟部回應也蠻快的你們當天的下午就對於他們的訴求有提出這個回應這部分的快速回應我要加以肯定不過呢"},{"start":72.725,"end":98.026,"text":"我看你們的這個回應的新聞稿啊好像出現了前後矛盾這環保團體明確要求說有些地方設光電板要納入環評包括國家公園以及環境敏感區我看你的新聞裡面回應你說 來 博定你看一下這是你們自己發的新聞稿嘛是回應的嘛你說"},{"start":99.229,"end":123.746,"text":"一級環境敏感區山坡地等訴求都已經納入有嗎 目前你們跟環境部你們兩位都猛點頭有確定有納入嗎環評法裡面國家公園啊野生動物保護區啊還有這個山坡地如果超過15公頃以上的就是你這邊現在都要環評現行的規定就是要環評"},{"start":124.935,"end":153.192,"text":"這些規定 一級環境敏感區我找你叫你們 我有印出來喔你們這個標準裡面沒有出現這個字眼啊是 一級 這個是一個我不曉得怎麼去定義但是我們明確的就是國家公園還有山坡地如果是沒有沒有沒有 不定不定國家公園跟山坡地是另外的一級環境敏感區是另外專有名詞是一個明定的 對不對"},{"start":154.554,"end":173.742,"text":"那裡面沒有嘛 我跟你講一級敏感地區我們本來就不會核准他本來就禁止來來來 這專有名詞耶你頂法律要照條文來這個是內政部國土署環境敏感地區查詢平台上面寫的這不能隨便 隨便亂講耶來 看一下22項包括什麼"},{"start":183.649,"end":200.796,"text":"包括第21項水庫的集水區包括水庫的蓄水範圍有嗎所以柏定你們現在是已經公布說包括烏山頭水庫包括所有的水庫蓄水範圍的全部都要做環評嗎"},{"start":202.443,"end":218.65,"text":"這個水庫跟那個蓄水範圍因為它一定有法令的規定所以我們是依照其他法令的規定所以你看這個新聞稿就自打嘴巴了嘛你講的這個一級環境敏感區這個是專有名詞是明定的我現在給你看的是國土屬清清楚楚名列的"},{"start":219.861,"end":239.037,"text":"那如果照這樣就是你就跟全國公布好消息就包括現在開始水庫上面的任何光電板都要還平是不是這樣結果沒有嘛 你們又沒有還沒做這個嘛 對不對所以你這個新聞稿是不是有漏洞用字引起了誤會甚至是自己前後就矛盾了嘛所以我們把它更正好好不好"},{"start":240.064,"end":260.774,"text":"好 這個我們可以來釐清 如果它裡面有特別反應的話你看你的新聞過來 回到新聞館再看一下你說把一級的敏感區域已經全部都納入嘛結果你下面又寫一個說其他項目 例如說水庫的水面你們正在做這個相關的檢討"},{"start":263.26,"end":287.514,"text":"這個就前後就矛盾了嘛所以趕快更正好不好好OK我本來以為是好消息我今天本來很期待說如果不是前後矛盾就是你們已經因為像我們台灣民眾島就明確我們也在討論我們要求說5公頃設置光電板5公頃以上1萬千瓦以上的就要環評嘛你們說還沒訂嘛對不對所以你這個新聞稿是有錯誤的嘛趕快把它更正好好不好好來趕快把它更正好接下來"},{"start":288.715,"end":317.712,"text":"是不是出現了環境部打臉了經濟部啊來我看您來我們看下一張你講到這個水庫上面光電板水上光電板這個到底有沒有毒的你們發了一個新聞稿說啊經過你們這個專業的這個測試啊RO逆滲透水這個浸泡毀壞光電板這光電板毀壞了破碎了你們去做了實驗七天以後水質跟這個飲用水標準還是符合的"},{"start":318.298,"end":319.912,"text":"那我要問的很重要那三個月後呢"},{"start":323.155,"end":345.904,"text":"這個水質的測試那麼我們自來水公司它進水的時候每天都有做測試那剛才講這個是工研院當時做的7日測試當然要做更長也可以我說你說7天安全我說如果三個月以後有安全嗎來我看一下你看你們的標準你們的飲水飲水安全的標準是什麼用鉛來做你們的飲水安全是1公升0.01毫克對不對這個是合乎標準對不對"},{"start":352.042,"end":371.763,"text":"好來看一下這是環境部做的環境部做的喔上去環境部的網站上面看那個投影片現在都還找得到他說把光電板破碎浸泡一個月跟三個月的簽的容出量"},{"start":373.555,"end":389.79,"text":"這邊紅胎 咖哩這邊 但那是紅胎 光電板不是被破壞了對不對破碎啦 有些沉到水裡面去啦 那來看依照環境部的這個模擬容數的簽在一個月的時候 0.00076到了三個月 0.298"},{"start":397.844,"end":413.15,"text":"保證0.298這個容數非常嚴重耶這就是已經超過你的飲水水質的標準你剛才看的安全就是0.01嘛 對不對他是那幾倍他是幾倍 他有兩個很重要 來來保證你們說安全是0.01對不對這個是水源啦 0.029是在水源區嘛水源區的話是0.05"},{"start":425.569,"end":432.462,"text":"對0.05的標準那你要飲用水還要經過過濾處理啊等等一些情況那為什麼環境部要去做烏山土的這個水質的測驗"},{"start":434.926,"end":454.403,"text":"你看這是他們做的啊本來你整個水庫的水質就是要做測驗啊文建部也這樣做啊那我給你看他做出來的來上一張做出來的他做出來的是什麼包括烏山頭水庫的你如他去取樣嘛對不對他說如果浸泡完之後一個月七天沒問題嘛對不對他一個月沒問題啊"},{"start":457.742,"end":468.196,"text":"可是 沙灰的問題啊 它有兩個很嚴重的問題第一個 它超標的 你們說的安全的標準沙灰沒有沒有超標 它是小於0.05啊它是小於0.05啊 這個飲用的這個水質 飲用水源啊那右邊那個呢"},{"start":474.173,"end":493.981,"text":"那個是以後 你說的是水質 那是處理後的 右邊那個是處理完以後我們 對啊 所以他們全部 就是環境部全部這兩個都做嘛你懂我意思嗎 那你至少 當然水質水源水質是要符合的 水質當然也是要標準的啊你先來看 我要先講兩個重點來來來 第一個來 你聽我說 聽我說 第一他的"},{"start":500.934,"end":521.668,"text":"0.029超過了原來的水質標準的3倍 更嚴重是什麼來來來 你做個比較1月份 你聽我說啦民眾有這個疑問嘛我們開過會很多民眾在投訴這個事情嘛1月到3月增加幾倍39.2倍就表示你這個事情 保定只要你這個事情沒有做好"},{"start":523.203,"end":547.296,"text":"他的簽的容數量一直在增加嘛一個月你自己新聞稿跟民眾講說7天7天沒問題對不對你自己也做檢測說7天沒問題啊結果一個月已經開始慢慢有問題了更嚴重的過三個月多了39.2倍那現在嚴重在什麼地方我現在跟你講一個很重要的不只是環境部他們自己去做的烏山頭水質還做了這個破碎的這個整個測驗那我們看下一張嘉義這邊紅苔"},{"start":553.311,"end":576.938,"text":"聯合報啊 聯合報在9月19號 就是颱風過後的兩個多月 聯合報喔 去做專題報導 去追裡面還有很多的是毀壞的光電板 還躺在水裡我到了三個月 就剛講了 過了三個月 我店面給你看 裡面有很多光電板說禮拜一 很多這個環保團體來"},{"start":579.922,"end":607.116,"text":"來陳情的時候 他們特別提什麼森林城市協會的理事長莊傑任他怎麼說他說這邊虹胎造成的這個製虹紙或者水面的這個整個掉到裡面去 他說什麼光電板存入水下 難以打撈清楚歐盛聯盟裡一個月到三個月增加那麼多到現在有些可能都還沒清出來現在要怎麼辦 簽一直在釋出嘛 對不對"},{"start":608.571,"end":628.865,"text":"簽的容量還一直在釋出嘛你到現在可能還簽不乾淨我可以講一個很重要的很多民眾在旁邊像那個嘉義市的志鴻池旁邊有很多民眾在那邊垂釣釣回去那個魚有民眾叫我今天問你啦說那個魚釣回來給部長吃給能源署署長吃"},{"start":634.417,"end":662.876,"text":"我說我不要這樣問你可是你們是不是有責任志鴻池不能有魚啦志鴻池不能有魚志鴻池不能有魚每個志鴻池都買有魚你等一下去看你每次去都買看到有人在那邊垂釣不行啊裡面就是有魚啊所以民眾說叫我問你啊說釣回來給你吃好不好我說不要這樣問部長你們的責任就是趕快把它打撈乾淨然後更重要的不要讓那個錢繼續存在危害民眾好不好"},{"start":664.549,"end":686.263,"text":"我們還是會持續檢驗啦因為我們原水的部分只要進到我們飲用水的部分原水就會檢驗一次飲用水也會檢驗一次啦到目前為止來講的話都沒有超過標準容量容息量非常的少而且人體危害很厲害好不好而且我剛才跟你講它影響有多大你看 氫對健康有多大影響"},{"start":688.423,"end":702.417,"text":"幾乎對人體內所有器官跟系統都有影響所以我們取水的時候取水點就會檢測取水點那個部分就會檢測所以你要盡量減少嘛 對不對來 我給你看它的傷害有多大嘛影響成人跟孩童的神經系統"},{"start":703.814,"end":732.639,"text":"然後呢他不要講長期曝露喔只要曝露就導致會貧血血壓升高特別是小孩子你看下面這個我幫你整理了牽對孩童的健康部長你把詳細的資料能夠跟我們的委員做報告這個很重要不要有讓人家誤解的地方再麻煩部長謝謝因為時間已經到了我儘快一分鐘儘快做結論來往下跑我現在跟你講特別對小孩影響很大那日本日本都發生了"},{"start":733.599,"end":761.989,"text":"在水庫上面的它不是飲水的它是一般的灌溉用的發生了這個風災的時候火災那光電板當然那個簽了那個壞掉以後簽那個容疏就更嚴重了對不對結果發現要去消防要去滅火非常的困難在台灣發生的是什麼看來台灣經濟咱們台南這個漁電工生也發生了那個光電板起火消防人員沒辦法馬上去救火你知道嗎水是倒體嘛"},{"start":763.254,"end":787.873,"text":"對不對 會顛倒捏所以我說光電板火災或者是它發生有災難的時候你們要怎麼救災避免光電板壞掉以後融到水裡面牽絲這要做好最後做這個訴求來第一個 趕快去釐清剛你承認的那個你所謂的水庫或水面上水上型的光電板你到底什麼狀況下要做環評你剛承認那個新聞稿有錯誤嘛 對不對"},{"start":788.593,"end":815.702,"text":"所以趕快去把它更正把標準把它明確的定出來那第二個目前有很多地方包括水庫自風室上面都有光電板你要去加強它的安全這個維護好不好第三個很重要我剛才說的打撈那環保團體前天來行政院就跟你們講嘛打撈不乾淨那你們要趕快去打撈要想想辦法不能讓那個鉛這樣一直在釋出好不好然後剛剛講的就是如果發生這個災難的時候我們要去救活要有一個指引做演練好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":371,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（10時4分）謝謝主席，請龔部長。"],["主席：龔部長。"],["龔部長明鑫：張委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：龔部長，禮拜一，也就是前天，臺灣有好多個環保團體到行政院跟立法院來陳情，他們抗議的是包括烏山頭水庫設光電板等，他們說最近光電有十大亂象，所以他們提出了十大訴求。我看你們經濟部回應也滿快的，你們在當天下午就有對他們的訴求提出回應，這部分的快速回應，我要加以肯定。不過我看你們回應的新聞稿好像出現了前後矛盾，環保團體明確要求說，有些地方設光電板要納入環評，包括國家公園、一級環境敏感區，但是請部長看一下，這是你們自己發的回應的新聞稿，裡面說一級環境敏感區、山坡地等訴求都已經納入，有嗎？目前你們跟環境部……"],["龔部長明鑫：對，環評法裡面……"],["張委員啓楷：你們兩位都猛點頭，確定有納入嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，環評法裡面規定國家公園、野生動物保護區，還有山坡地如果超過15公頃以上，現在都要環評，現行的規定這些就是要環評。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，我有印出來，你們這個標準裡面沒有出現「一級環境敏感區」這個字眼。"],["龔部長明鑫：是，這個「一級」是一個……我不曉得怎麼去定義，但是我們明確規定的就是國家公園，還有山坡地如果超過15公頃……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，國家公園跟山坡地是另外的，一級環境敏感區是另外的專有名詞，是明定的，對不對？那裡面沒有嘛！"],["李署長君禮：一級敏感地區我們本來就不會核准，它本來就禁止。"],["張委員啓楷：這是專有名詞，法律規定要照條文來，這個是內政部國土署環境敏感地區查詢平台上面寫的，這個不能隨便亂講，看一下，一級環境敏感地區有22項，包括什麼？包括第21項水庫集水區，還有包括水庫蓄水範圍，有嗎？所以部長，你們現在是已經公布，包括烏山頭水庫、包括所有的水庫，蓄水範圍的部分全部都要做環評嗎？"],["李署長君禮：不是，水庫跟蓄水範圍因為另有法令的規定，所以我們是依照其他法令的規定。"],["張委員啓楷：你看，所以這個新聞稿就自打嘴巴了嘛！你講的這個「一級環境敏感區」，這個是專有名詞、是明定的，我現在給你看的是國土署清清楚楚明列的，如果照這樣，你就跟全國公布好消息，從現在開始，水庫上面的任何光電板都要環評，是不是這樣？結果沒有嘛！你們又還沒有做這個，所以這個新聞稿是不是有漏洞？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，另外的法律……"],["張委員啓楷：用字引起誤會，甚至是自己前後就矛盾了嘛！請你們把它更正好，好不好？"],["李署長君禮：好，這個我們可以來釐清，如果它裡面有特別以法令規定的地方。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，你看你的新聞稿，裡面說一級環境敏感區域已經全部都納入，結果下面又寫，其他項目例如水庫水面，你們正在做相關的檢討，這個就前後矛盾了嘛！所以趕快更正，好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：好，可以。"],["張委員啓楷：我本來以為是好消息，我今天本來很期待，如果不是前後矛盾，就是你們已經……因為像我們台灣民眾黨就明確……"],["龔部長明鑫：我們有在討論。"],["張委員啓楷：我們要求設置光電板5公頃以上、1萬瓩以上的就要環評，你們說還沒訂嘛！對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對、對、對。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你這個新聞稿是有錯誤的，趕快把它更正，好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：好。"],["張委員啓楷：接下來，是不是出現了環境部打臉經濟部啊？講到水面光電板到底有沒有毒，你們發了一個新聞稿說，經過你們委託專業單位測試，以RO逆滲透水浸泡損壞光電板，所以光電板毀壞了、破碎了，你們去做了實驗，7天以後水質還是符合飲用水標準。我就要問，很重要的，那3個月後呢？"],["李署長君禮：這個水質的測試，自來水公司進水的時候每天都有做測試，剛才講的這個是工研院當時做的7日測試，當然要做更長也可以。"],["張委員啓楷：你做7天是安全的，但如果是3個月以後還安全嗎？你看你們的標準，你們飲用水水質安全的標準是什麼？以鉛為例，你們的飲水安全標準是一公升0.01毫克，對不對？這樣是合乎標準的。看一下，這是環境部做的，大家去環境部的網站上面看投影片，現在都還找得到，上面有把光電板破碎，檢測浸泡1個月跟3個月的鉛溶出量。嘉義這次丹娜絲颱風，光電板被吹壞了、破壞了、破碎了，也是沉到水裡面去了，依照環境部的模擬，溶出的鉛在1個月的時候是0.00076mg/L，到了三個月是0.298 mg/L。部長，0.298 mg/L，這個溶出的結果非常嚴重，這就已經超過你的飲水水質標準，你剛才看的安全標準就是0.01 mg/L，對不對？它是那個的幾倍？它有兩個很重要的，部長，你們說安全標準是0.01 mg/L，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，這個是水源啦！0.029 mg/L是在水源區嘛！"],["張委員啓楷：對啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：水源區的話是0.05 mg/L的標準，飲用水還要經過過濾處理等等一些情況。"],["張委員啓楷：那為什麼環境部要去做烏山頭水質的檢測？你看，這是他們做的，本來整個水庫的水質就是要做檢測，環境部也這樣做啊！我給你看它做出來的結果是什麼，包括烏山頭水庫的，它去取樣，然後說，像你說的，如果浸泡7天，沒問題，1個月也沒問題，可是3個月就有問題了。它有兩個很嚴重的問題，第一個，它超標了，是你們說的安全標準的3倍。"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，沒有超標，它是小於0.05mg/L，這是飲用水源的標準。"],["張委員啓楷：右邊那個呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：那個是飲用水。"],["張委員啓楷：你說的是水質。"],["龔部長明鑫：那是處理後的，右邊那個是處理完以後，我們……"],["張委員啓楷：對啊！環境部這兩個都做嘛！你懂我的意思嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：因為它的水源……"],["張委員啓楷：當然水源要符合標準，水質當然也是要符合標準啊！你先聽我說兩個重點，很重要，第一個，它的0.029超過了原來水質標準的3倍，更嚴重的是，你做個比較，1月份……"],["龔部長明鑫：不是、不是，它沒有……"],["張委員啓楷：你聽我說啦！民眾有這個疑問，我們開過會，很多民眾都在投訴這個事情。1月到3月增加幾倍？39.2倍，部長，就表示只要你這件事情沒有做好，它的鉛的溶出量一直在增加，你自己的新聞稿也跟民眾說，7天沒問題，對不對？你們自己也做檢測，你說7天沒問題啊！結果1個月就已經開始慢慢有問題了，更嚴重的是，過3個月後，多了39.2倍，現在嚴重在什麼地方？我現在跟你講一個很重要的，不只是環境部去做了烏山頭水庫水質檢測，還做了破碎的整個測驗。","嘉義在這次颱風過後，聯合報在9月19日，就是颱風過後的兩個多月，去做專題報導、去追，發現裡面有很多毀壞的光電板還躺在水裡，過了3個月，我上次有拿給你看，對不對？裡面有很多光電板，禮拜一很多環保團體來陳情的時候，他們特別提到什麼？森林城市協會的理事長莊傑任怎麼說？這次颱風造成光電板掉到滯洪池或者水裡面，他說什麼？他說，光電板沉入水下，難以打撈清除。我現在問你，1個月到3個月增加那麼多，到現在有些可能都還沒清出來，現在要怎麼辦？鉛還一直在釋出嘛！"],["龔部長明鑫：對，還是要測……"],["張委員啓楷：你到現在可能還清不乾淨，我跟你講一個很重要的，很多民眾在旁邊，像嘉義的滯洪池，旁邊有很多民眾在那邊垂釣，釣回去的魚……有民眾叫我今天問你，說那個魚如果釣回來給部長吃、給能源署署長吃，你們敢吃嗎？我說我不要這樣問你，可是你們是不是有責任？"],["龔部長明鑫：滯洪池不能有魚。"],["張委員啓楷：滯洪池不能有魚？每個滯洪池都有魚！你等一下去看，每次去都會看到有人在那邊垂釣。"],["龔部長明鑫：不行啦。"],["張委員啓楷：裡面就是有魚啊！所以民眾說叫我問你，說釣回來給你吃，好不好？我說不要這樣問部長，你們的責任就是趕快把它打撈乾淨，然後更重要的是，不要讓那個鉛繼續存在，危害民眾，好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們還是會持續檢驗，因為只要進到飲用水的部分，原水就會檢驗一次，飲用水也會檢驗一次，到目前為止都沒有超過標準……"],["張委員啓楷：部長，鉛的容許量非常地少，對人體危害很大，好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：是啊，所以它原水的部分就是0.05……"],["張委員啓楷：而且我剛剛已經跟你講它一直在增加，它影響有多大？你看，鉛對健康有多大影響，幾乎對人體內所有器官跟系統都有影響。"],["龔部長明鑫：所以我們取水的時候，取水點就會檢測。"],["張委員啓楷：對，所以你要儘量減少嘛，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["張委員啓楷：我給你看它的傷害有多大，影響成人跟孩童的神經系統，然後不要講長期暴露，只要暴露就會導致貧血、血壓升高，特別是小孩子，你看下面這個，我幫你整理了，鉛對孩童的健康……"],["主席：謝謝。拜託部長提供詳細的資料跟委員報告，這個很重要，不要有讓人家誤解的地方，再麻煩部長，謝謝。"],["龔部長明鑫：好。"],["張委員啓楷：因為時間已經到了，我儘快，1分鐘，我儘快做結論。","我現在跟你講，特別對小孩影響很大。日本都發生了在水庫上面的，它不是飲水的，它是一般灌溉用的，它在風災之後發生火災，光電板壞掉以後，當然鉛的溶出就更嚴重了，結果發現消防要去滅火非常地困難。在臺灣發生的是什麼？臺灣前一陣子，臺南的漁電共生也發生了光電板起火，消防人員沒辦法馬上去救火，你知道嗎？因為水是導體，會電到的！所以我說光電板火災或者它發生災難的時候，你們要知道怎麼救災，避免光電板壞掉以後溶到水裡面把鉛釋放出來。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：最後，我做這個訴求：第一個，趕快去釐清剛剛你承認的那個，你所謂的水庫或水面上的水上型光電板到底在什麼狀況下要做環評？你剛剛承認那個新聞稿有錯誤嘛，所以趕快去把它更正，把標準明確地訂出來。第二個，目前有很多地方，包括水庫、滯洪池上面都有光電板，你要去加強它的安全維護，好不好？第三個也很重要，剛才說的打撈，環保團體前天去行政院就跟你們講，打撈不乾淨，你們要趕快去打撈，要想想辦法，不能讓鉛一直釋出，好不好？還有剛剛講的，如果發生災難的時候，怎麼樣去救火，要有一個指引，做演練，好不好？謝謝。"],["龔部長明鑫：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員質詢，謝謝部長跟所有相關同仁答詢。","現在請呂玉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-8","speakers":["陳亭妃","羅美玲","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","呂玉玲","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","賴士葆","葉元之","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","鄭正鈐","黃捷","張嘉郡","林楚茵","陳超明"],"page_start":333,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員王美\n惠等20人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人擬具「電\n業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具\n「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「電業法第七十一\n條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草\n案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院\n委員黃捷等22人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬\n具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「電業法第七十\n一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修\n正草案」案；二、審查： ( 一) 行政院函請審議「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員王美惠等20人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本\n院委員李坤城等18人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗\n華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本\n院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美\n玲等19人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬\n具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「天然氣事\n業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十\n五條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案；三、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委\n員王美惠等19人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人\n擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「自來\n水法第三條、第十六條之一及第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬\n具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「自來水法第\n九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案（合併詢答）","agenda_id":"1148901_00007"}}}