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\"end\": 975.347, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 975.347, \"end\": 975.367, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 975.367, \"end\": 975.428, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 975.428, \"end\": 975.448, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 975.448, \"end\": 975.468, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"宏\", \"start\": 975.468, \"end\": 975.488, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"威\", \"start\": 975.488, \"end\": 975.508, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,576 --> 00:00:19,358\n謝謝主席提醒我之前還不曉得我們有這個CO2的這個監測以後我們應該要做有氧運動你一上台馬上降了已經降到1400一下那我們努力維持比較好的這個空氣品質讓大家都能夠神清氣爽一點好謝謝主席我們請人事長請蘇人事長\n\n2\n00:00:34,414 --> 00:00:35,874\n委員長早好委員長早有一個議題蠻重要的就是我們在上個會期通過了幾個對於包含現役軍人以及退伍軍人的一些優先法案\n\n3\n00:00:51,679 --> 00:00:59,101\n那當然對於現役軍人的加薪非常遺憾而且我們還是要強力譴責即便是總統府公告之後但是行政院巨部編列預算但是同一時期我們所\n\n4\n00:01:08,004 --> 00:01:35,196\n通過的也就是就是對於退出的退役的上校以上子女的教育補助那這部分行政院有編列預算所以我也不曉得行政院為什麼採取一個很奇怪的雙標因為當時呢包含現役軍人的加薪以及對於退役上校以上子女補助教育補助事實上我們是同時通過的\n\n5\n00:01:36,957 --> 00:01:54,515\n那麼行政院選擇性的來編列預算好那所以呢這個有關於退役上校以上子女教育補助啊已經經過總統府公告而且呢我也特別去查你們也有編列預算\n\n6\n00:01:55,456 --> 00:02:13,773\n然後我們退府會事實上所通過的這個預告的發起辦法裡面呢也還特別強調是今年8月底就應該執行那當然這個我們雖然它的其實\n\n7\n00:02:15,194 --> 00:02:29,626\n他的對象不像是現役軍人嘉興這麼廣但是無論如何這是我們對於這個退休退役的上校以上尤其是當時是上校退休的的一個這個\n\n8\n00:02:32,108 --> 00:02:49,272\n的一個幫助那現在以現在的進度來講聽說是卡在我們人種這邊那我想請問一下為什麼我們人種為什麼到現在因為如果你這邊OK的話人種OK的話行政院照理講應該會核定這個退府會這個辦法所以我想請問一下人種的考慮是什麼\n\n9\n00:03:00,151 --> 00:03:14,760\n我謝謝給我這個時間因為人總不會卡這種案子因為之前不會卡我們之前一直在跟退伍會跟教育部在溝通就是說當要處理那個子女教卜的問題\n\n10\n00:03:16,081 --> 00:03:40,933\n我們必須要同時考慮到進攻教這些退役的軍人還有教師還有公務人員那後來經過整個我們精算之後退伍費這裡大概需要一年大概五千多萬嘛對當時我們也有算過這個大約需要的經費教育跟公務人員的部分加起來大概1.8等於大概一年增加的額度大概2.38那2.38坦白講預算金額是不大\n\n11\n00:03:44,355 --> 00:04:12,517\n那屬於中央的部分會中央來支付現在唯一比較有問題的就是有些地方政府他地方政府要編列這個預算來支應這一個部分所以現在整個案子還在我們外交國防法務處那邊所以那個人事長的意思就是說如果把公教人員也納進來的話Total全部加起來是2.38億\n\n12\n00:04:15,615 --> 00:04:21,243\n對不對2.38億人長的意思說其實這個金額是可以可負擔的\n\n13\n00:04:21,872 --> 00:04:37,400\n可是現在問題是在地方政府的部分因為屬於地方政府的部分地方政府我們必須要去協商因為大家也知道地方政府你額外要請沒有錯我知道因為對於地方政府來說地方政府現在最擔心的就是常常是中央請客然後是地方買單其實非常非常多所以這個地方政府的財政是確實可以去考量的\n\n14\n00:04:51,087 --> 00:05:07,355\n那在這個考量所謂的就是說把公教人員也加進來之前我也想跟任市長做一個溝通為什麼我們會優先優先對於退役上校的子女先做補助\n\n15\n00:05:08,456 --> 00:05:20,037\n因为来我们来看一下我们也去查过公教人员因为公教人员有他的退休办法强制退休办法基本上他的强制退休是年满65岁\n\n16\n00:05:22,256 --> 00:05:46,765\n而且是任職滿五年但是對軍人他比較不一樣軍人的強制退休事實上就說他如果在職務上他沒有辦法再晉級的話事實上他就必須退休所以相對軍人的退休的年齡事實上是比公教人員低很多的\n\n17\n00:05:47,205 --> 00:06:02,574\n我們今天來看如果說我們看就是公教人員平均的退休年齡男性跟女性大概都是59歲上下平均年齡平均退休年齡但是如果我們看到上校級的\n\n18\n00:06:03,755 --> 00:06:20,935\n上校級的退休年齡他就是在50歲以下大概將近49歲所以已經就是已經就是比他還年輕10歲就必須要退休所以這也是為什麼當時我們要推出這個修法最主要的就因為\n\n19\n00:06:21,656 --> 00:06:50,297\n如果你是將軍退休其實那個時候他的子女說實在已經已經大部分並不需要教育補助了啦因為他的年齡的關係但是很多的退役上校那個時間正好是他壯年的時候他又必須強制退休所以這個是我們必須要跟人種去做這樣的溝通那我是認為說既然我們在明年行政院也編列了預算\n\n20\n00:06:51,258 --> 00:07:14,241\n退府會也把這個發起辦法也通通都修好了那麼我們至少至少要讓他明年可以正式的開始上路那您剛剛講的對公教人員我在這邊也感謝任總把公教人員也把他納入來考量現在唯一的是\n\n21\n00:07:14,921 --> 00:07:32,453\n希望就是跟地方政府來做溝通嘛因為公教是必須要地方政府也要出錢那所以也像我們現在不是在修正才化法那我們一直在講就是說如果行政院把把才化法把中央跟地方之間的權責能夠講得更清楚而且說實在這次會講說給地方這麼多錢然後呢你地方沒有分擔什麼相關的業務但是事實上我剛才講的\n\n22\n00:07:45,081 --> 00:08:06,715\n就是過去長期以來中央請客中央有很多的政策一下去都是地方在買單我現在因為我知道那個人市長其實跟很多的地方的縣市首長也很熟啦我相信他們也一定有這樣抱怨尤其在財政比較困難的縣市所以\n\n23\n00:08:07,512 --> 00:08:28,776\n我支持剛才人事長所講的把它擴及到公教人員我講就是說尤其像這個我們軍人在你退休的時候是壯年然後你最需要用錢的時候你又可能還要去找其他工作但是小孩又在就學這個時候政府應該要給予\n\n24\n00:08:31,977 --> 00:08:51,290\n照顧尤其我們現在講國防任性國防任性我們現在這麼缺兵對不對這麼缺兵那如何能夠讓軍人認為國家真的可以照顧到你的這個家庭你也可以都能照顧子女的教育也都能夠照顧好所以那麼人事長我想請問那你們什麼時候可以核定呢\n\n25\n00:08:56,678 --> 00:09:25,148\n這個核定權應該不是在人總目前還在行政院外交國防法務處當然當然但是現在說卡在人總啊沒有卡在人總啦因為人總沒有不會去卡人家的我們都是在協助人家去把一些事情趕快更順暢不過這裡利用這個機會跟委員提一下當初公務人員他可以退休子女教卜\n\n26\n00:09:25,808 --> 00:09:45,121\n它本來是在它的月退休奉要2萬5以下後來就是調到2萬8可是在上校的部分因為我們有初步推估上校的它的一個月退休奉大概接近5萬左右兩邊有一點落差所以為了\n\n27\n00:09:46,223 --> 00:10:00,643\n橫平性的考量所以那時候上校指你的退伏的部分我們就是在整個年改制度的設計裡面有做一些設計現在的時空環境不一樣我想大家再來對話\n\n28\n00:10:02,085 --> 00:10:23,869\n好所以那人事長的意思也是說我們現在讓軍人就是退役軍人上校以上能夠補助子女教育補助所以我們現在我們現在行政院的政策方向也是讓公教人員同一個這個這個值等的也把它拉上來是不是也一樣就是也一樣做這個這是人種的一個期待當你你有照顧到K5軍人上校的部分那我其他\n\n29\n00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:59,959\n提高到五萬塊其實我要講的就是我們現在因為剛才也有很多委員關心年改的問題我們在年改裡面其實就已經一國好幾制了\n\n30\n00:11:00,925 --> 00:11:27,866\n其實就已經一國好幾制這為什麼在講說尤其這個所得替代率的部分比如說我們願意給軍人軍人所得替代率比較好那這個其實也是就是考慮到軍人付出而且以我們現階段大家希望能夠更多的這個軍人現在大家不要說現在連木兵也有問題不要增兵然後再加上不要說這個什麼散兵問題連木兵都有問題了\n\n31\n00:11:30,407 --> 00:11:57,718\n所以我覺得在這是人事長所考慮的我同意我同意但是我希望這個既然第一個立法院通過總統公告然後那個行政院編列預算然後那個退府會也發起辦法全部都已經都已經完備在這樣的狀況之下至少至少明年明年1月他一定要上路一定要上路人事長同不同意\n\n32\n00:12:00,034 --> 00:12:05,876\n這個決定錢不是在我這裡我知道啦但是你的意見很重要但是我們公教人員我們也會支持啦我們也會支持就如同剛才那個任市長所講的2.38億我們多多照顧一下我們的軍人尤其最近新的國安問題就是教師的\n\n33\n00:12:24,423 --> 00:12:53,263\n这个已经是完全的缺人了就已经有人才荒非常大的一个人才那以我时间外我只问一件事我再问一件事情就是我们10月10号开始上路的就是这个身心架我刚才讲就说像教师人员他也有我们现在出现了国外问题教师难求教师难找因为大量的缺\n\n34\n00:12:54,204 --> 00:13:10,630\n教師使得現在第一線的教師他的壓力特別特別的大他的時間也特別特別的長所以很快也不是說很快現在教師就成了另外一個血汗的產業那我想請問一下那麼身心調試價已經正式上路了嗎\n\n35\n00:13:16,132 --> 00:13:39,107\n好那到目前為止任市長所了解這個身心條是這樣上路之後現在公務員敢請嗎有請假嗎我跟委員報告第一年我們大概會每一個月請各個我們會去統計這個資料在每一個月的20號那目前因為今年10月今天是10月29號\n\n36\n00:13:40,248 --> 00:14:08,464\n所以我们在下一个月的20号会统计大概每一个月的20号我们会去做一次统计的资料做一次统计看看多少人请身心调试假然后随时做动态性的调整我们在网站上做揭露因为我觉得这样资讯透明公开会比较好一点对因为其实很多人都认为身心调试假是需要的但是因为它并入试假又感觉好像\n\n37\n00:14:10,325 --> 00:14:35,024\n這個好像有點不夠到位所以就是說我們現在每個月都會去做一個統計這樣也很好了讓我們各單位你是各單位還是全部全部把它一起統計我們全國會做一個統計我覺得你們也應該用各單位來做因為我們也要了解一下各單位會不會有哪一些單位要請身心調試假特別多\n\n38\n00:14:36,318 --> 00:15:02,822\n這也是我有一種監看喔基本上大概行政院會有二級機關啦然後二十二個縣市政府先這樣因為假如每一個單位他由縣市政府再往下會有二級三級機關構這樣可能數量會太多對對我覺得你做一個大致性的這樣子我們也比較知道哪一些單位的這個就是我們的公務人員他可能我們必須要我們必須要多關心一點\n\n39\n00:15:04,003 --> 00:15:20,115\n那我覺得當然有一些比如說是比較特殊性例如像現在就是我們在防疫的部分非洲住溫房也許防疫人員他們可能身心就比較壓力會比較大一些他可能有的是有季節性的\n\n40\n00:15:20,495 --> 00:15:30,602\n有的是有事件性的有的突發性等等那讓我們能夠多關心一下我們基層公務人員他們現在的這個身心狀況所以我覺得到時候啊那個也拜託這個身心價也就這個教職人員的部分你們來想想看怎麼樣讓我們可以去關心第一線的教職人員我剛才在講的這個是\n\n41\n00:15:44,412 --> 00:16:09,785\n我們這麼多在教育我們把我們的孩子放到我們的學校裡面我們當然希望我們的老師是身心健康的我從以前當議員的時候就有很多老師學校跟我講老師都在吃百憂解所以我的意思就是說我們應該對這第一線多關懷一些多關懷一些比如說我講的防疫人員現在他是因為有事件性的\n\n42\n00:16:10,285 --> 00:16:15,508\n那如果教室它是長期的一年四季一年365天它都有這樣的一個身心應該要紓解的問題那就值得我們更加重視人事長你是要補充這個我看你現在笑得很開心沒有就是教室的部分我們會請教育部去把這樣的資訊也跟我們一樣我們公務員的部分我們會處理教育的部分我們會通知教育部請教育部好不好好謝謝好謝謝王宏威\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8576\t19358\t謝謝主席提醒我之前還不曉得我們有這個CO2的這個監測以後我們應該要做有氧運動你一上台馬上降了已經降到1400一下那我們努力維持比較好的這個空氣品質讓大家都能夠神清氣爽一點好謝謝主席我們請人事長請蘇人事長\n34414\t35874\t委員長早好 委員長早有一個議題蠻重要的就是我們在上個會期通過了幾個對於包含現役軍人以及退伍軍人的一些優先法案\n51679\t59101\t那當然對於現役軍人的加薪非常遺憾而且我們還是要強力譴責即便是總統府公告之後但是行政院巨部編列預算但是同一時期我們所\n68004\t95196\t通過的也就是就是對於退出的退役的上校以上子女的教育補助那這部分行政院有編列預算所以我也不曉得行政院為什麼採取一個很奇怪的雙標因為當時呢包含現役軍人的加薪以及對於退役上校以上子女補助教育補助事實上我們是同時通過的\n96957\t114515\t那麼行政院選擇性的來編列預算好那所以呢這個有關於退役上校以上子女教育補助啊已經經過總統府公告而且呢我也特別去查你們也有編列預算\n115456\t133773\t然後我們退府會事實上所通過的這個預告的發起辦法裡面呢也還特別強調是今年8月底就應該執行那當然這個我們雖然它的其實\n135194\t149626\t他的對象不像是現役軍人嘉興這麼廣但是無論如何這是我們對於這個退休退役的上校以上尤其是當時是上校退休的的一個這個\n152108\t169272\t的一個幫助那現在以現在的進度來講聽說是卡在我們人種這邊那我想請問一下為什麼我們人種為什麼到現在因為如果你這邊OK的話人種OK的話行政院照理講應該會核定這個退府會這個辦法所以我想請問一下人種的考慮是什麼\n180151\t194760\t我謝謝給我這個時間因為人總不會卡這種案子因為之前不會卡我們之前一直在跟退伍會跟教育部在溝通就是說當要處理那個子女教卜的問題\n196081\t220933\t我們必須要同時考慮到進攻教這些退役的軍人還有教師 還有公務人員那後來經過整個我們精算之後退伍費這裡大概需要一年大概五千多萬嘛對 當時我們也有算過這個大約需要的經費教育跟公務人員的部分加起來大概1.8 等於大概一年增加的額度大概2.38那2.38 坦白講 預算金額是不大\n224355\t252517\t那屬於中央的部分會中央來支付現在唯一比較有問題的就是有些地方政府他地方政府要編列這個預算來支應這一個部分所以現在整個案子還在我們外交國防法務處那邊所以那個人事長的意思就是說如果把公教人員也納進來的話Total全部加起來是2.38億\n255615\t261243\t對不對2.38億人長的意思說其實這個金額是可以可負擔的\n261872\t277400\t可是現在問題是在地方政府的部分因為屬於地方政府的部分地方政府我們必須要去協商因為大家也知道地方政府你額外要請沒有錯我知道因為對於地方政府來說地方政府現在最擔心的就是常常是中央請客然後是地方買單其實非常非常多所以這個地方政府的財政是確實可以去考量的\n291087\t307355\t那在這個考量所謂的就是說把公教人員也加進來之前我也想跟任市長做一個溝通為什麼我們會優先優先對於退役上校的子女先做補助\n308456\t320037\t因为来我们来看一下我们也去查过公教人员因为公教人员有他的退休办法强制退休办法基本上他的强制退休是年满65岁\n322256\t346765\t而且是任職滿五年但是對軍人他比較不一樣軍人的強制退休 事實上就說他如果在職務上他沒有辦法再晉級的話事實上他就必須退休所以相對軍人的退休的年齡事實上是比公教人員低很多的\n347205\t362574\t我們今天來看如果說我們看就是公教人員平均的退休年齡男性跟女性大概都是59歲上下平均年齡平均退休年齡但是如果我們看到上校級的\n363755\t380935\t上校級的退休年齡他就是在50歲以下大概將近49歲所以已經就是已經就是比他還年輕10歲就必須要退休所以這也是為什麼當時我們要推出這個修法最主要的就因為\n381656\t410297\t如果你是將軍退休其實那個時候他的子女說實在已經已經大部分並不需要教育補助了啦因為他的年齡的關係但是很多的退役上校那個時間正好是他壯年的時候他又必須強制退休所以這個是我們必須要跟人種去做這樣的溝通那我是認為說既然我們在明年行政院也編列了預算\n411258\t434241\t退府會也把這個發起辦法也通通都修好了那麼我們至少至少要讓他明年可以正式的開始上路那您剛剛講的對公教人員我在這邊也感謝任總把公教人員也把他納入來考量現在唯一的是\n434921\t452453\t希望就是跟地方政府來做溝通嘛因為公教是必須要地方政府也要出錢那所以也像我們現在不是在修正才化法那我們一直在講就是說如果行政院把把才化法把中央跟地方之間的權責能夠講得更清楚而且說實在這次會講說給地方這麼多錢然後呢你地方沒有分擔什麼相關的業務但是事實上我剛才講的\n465081\t486715\t就是過去長期以來中央請客中央有很多的政策一下去都是地方在買單我現在因為我知道那個人市長其實跟很多的地方的縣市首長也很熟啦我相信他們也一定有這樣抱怨尤其在財政比較困難的縣市所以\n487512\t508776\t我支持剛才人事長所講的把它擴及到公教人員我講就是說尤其像這個我們軍人在你退休的時候是壯年然後你最需要用錢的時候你又可能還要去找其他工作但是小孩又在就學這個時候政府應該要給予\n511977\t531290\t照顧尤其我們現在講國防任性國防任性我們現在這麼缺兵對不對這麼缺兵那如何能夠讓軍人認為國家真的可以照顧到你的這個家庭你也可以都能照顧子女的教育也都能夠照顧好所以那麼人事長我想請問那你們什麼時候可以核定呢\n536678\t565148\t這個核定權應該不是在人總目前還在行政院外交國防法務處當然當然但是現在說卡在人總啊沒有卡在人總啦因為人總沒有不會去卡人家的我們都是在協助人家去把一些事情趕快更順暢不過這裡利用這個機會跟委員提一下當初公務人員他可以退休子女教卜\n565808\t585121\t它本來是在它的月退休奉要2萬5以下後來就是調到2萬8可是在上校的部分因為我們有初步推估上校的它的一個月退休奉大概接近5萬左右兩邊有一點落差所以為了\n586223\t600643\t橫平性的考量所以那時候上校指你的退伏的部分我們就是在整個年改制度的設計裡面有做一些設計現在的時空環境不一樣我想大家再來對話\n602085\t623869\t好所以那人事長的意思也是說我們現在讓軍人就是退役軍人上校以上能夠補助子女教育補助所以我們現在我們現在行政院的政策方向也是讓公教人員同一個這個這個值等的也把它拉上來是不是也一樣就是也一樣做這個這是人種的一個期待當你你有照顧到K5軍人上校的部分那我其他\n639560\t659959\t提高到五萬塊其實我要講的就是我們現在因為剛才也有很多委員關心年改的問題我們在年改裡面其實就已經一國好幾制了\n660925\t687866\t其實就已經一國好幾制這為什麼在講說尤其這個所得替代率的部分比如說我們願意給軍人軍人所得替代率比較好那這個其實也是就是考慮到軍人付出而且以我們現階段大家希望能夠更多的這個軍人現在大家不要說現在連木兵也有問題不要增兵然後再加上不要說這個什麼散兵問題連木兵都有問題了\n690407\t717718\t所以我覺得在這是人事長所考慮的我同意我同意但是我希望這個既然第一個立法院通過總統公告然後那個行政院編列預算然後那個退府會也發起辦法全部都已經都已經完備在這樣的狀況之下至少至少明年明年1月他一定要上路一定要上路人事長同不同意\n720034\t725876\t這個決定錢不是在我這裡我知道啦但是你的意見很重要但是我們公教人員我們也會支持啦我們也會支持就如同剛才那個任市長所講的2.38億我們多多照顧一下我們的軍人尤其最近新的國安問題就是教師的\n744423\t773263\t这个已经是完全的缺人了就已经有人才荒非常大的一个人才那以我时间外我只问一件事我再问一件事情就是我们10月10号开始上路的就是这个身心架我刚才讲就说像教师人员他也有我们现在出现了国外问题教师难求教师难找因为大量的缺\n774204\t790630\t教師使得現在第一線的教師他的壓力特別特別的大他的時間也特別特別的長所以很快也不是說很快現在教師就成了另外一個血汗的產業那我想請問一下那麼身心調試價已經正式上路了嗎\n796132\t819107\t好 那到目前為止 任市長所了解這個身心條是這樣上路之後現在公務員敢請嗎 有請假嗎我跟委員報告 第一年我們大概會每一個月請各個我們會去統計這個資料 在每一個月的20號那目前因為今年10月 今天是10月29號\n820248\t848464\t所以我们在下一个月的20号会统计大概每一个月的20号我们会去做一次统计的资料做一次统计看看多少人请身心调试假然后随时做动态性的调整我们在网站上做揭露因为我觉得这样资讯透明公开会比较好一点对 因为其实很多人都认为身心调试假是需要的但是因为它并入试假又感觉好像\n850325\t875024\t這個好像有點不夠到位所以就是說我們現在每個月都會去做一個統計這樣也很好了讓我們各單位你是各單位還是全部全部把它一起統計我們全國會做一個統計我覺得你們也應該用各單位來做因為我們也要了解一下各單位會不會有哪一些單位要請身心調試假特別多\n876318\t902822\t這也是我有一種監看喔 基本上大概行政院會有二級機關啦然後二十二個縣市政府先這樣因為假如每一個單位他由縣市政府再往下會有二級三級機關構這樣可能數量會太多對對我覺得你做一個大致性的這樣子我們也比較知道哪一些單位的這個就是我們的公務人員他可能我們必須要我們必須要多關心一點\n904003\t920115\t那我覺得當然有一些比如說是比較特殊性例如像現在就是我們在防疫的部分非洲住溫房也許防疫人員他們可能身心就比較壓力會比較大一些他可能有的是有季節性的\n920495\t930602\t有的是有事件性的有的突發性等等那讓我們能夠多關心一下我們基層公務人員他們現在的這個身心狀況所以我覺得到時候啊那個也拜託這個身心價也就這個教職人員的部分你們來想想看怎麼樣讓我們可以去關心第一線的教職人員我剛才在講的這個是\n944412\t969785\t我們這麼多在教育我們把我們的孩子放到我們的學校裡面我們當然希望我們的老師是身心健康的我從以前當議員的時候就有很多老師學校跟我講老師都在吃百憂解所以我的意思就是說我們應該對這第一線多關懷一些多關懷一些比如說我講的防疫人員現在他是因為有事件性的\n970285\t975508\t那如果教室它是長期的一年四季一年365天它都有這樣的一個身心應該要紓解的問題那就值得我們更加重視人事長你是要補充這個我看你現在笑得很開心沒有就是教室的部分我們會請教育部去把這樣的資訊也跟我們一樣我們公務員的部分我們會處理教育的部分我們會通知教育部請教育部好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝王宏威\n","txt":"謝謝主席提醒我之前還不曉得我們有這個CO2的這個監測以後我們應該要做有氧運動你一上台馬上降了已經降到1400一下那我們努力維持比較好的這個空氣品質讓大家都能夠神清氣爽一點好謝謝主席我們請人事長請蘇人事長\n委員長早好 委員長早有一個議題蠻重要的就是我們在上個會期通過了幾個對於包含現役軍人以及退伍軍人的一些優先法案\n那當然對於現役軍人的加薪非常遺憾而且我們還是要強力譴責即便是總統府公告之後但是行政院巨部編列預算但是同一時期我們所\n通過的也就是就是對於退出的退役的上校以上子女的教育補助那這部分行政院有編列預算所以我也不曉得行政院為什麼採取一個很奇怪的雙標因為當時呢包含現役軍人的加薪以及對於退役上校以上子女補助教育補助事實上我們是同時通過的\n那麼行政院選擇性的來編列預算好那所以呢這個有關於退役上校以上子女教育補助啊已經經過總統府公告而且呢我也特別去查你們也有編列預算\n然後我們退府會事實上所通過的這個預告的發起辦法裡面呢也還特別強調是今年8月底就應該執行那當然這個我們雖然它的其實\n他的對象不像是現役軍人嘉興這麼廣但是無論如何這是我們對於這個退休退役的上校以上尤其是當時是上校退休的的一個這個\n的一個幫助那現在以現在的進度來講聽說是卡在我們人種這邊那我想請問一下為什麼我們人種為什麼到現在因為如果你這邊OK的話人種OK的話行政院照理講應該會核定這個退府會這個辦法所以我想請問一下人種的考慮是什麼\n我謝謝給我這個時間因為人總不會卡這種案子因為之前不會卡我們之前一直在跟退伍會跟教育部在溝通就是說當要處理那個子女教卜的問題\n我們必須要同時考慮到進攻教這些退役的軍人還有教師 還有公務人員那後來經過整個我們精算之後退伍費這裡大概需要一年大概五千多萬嘛對 當時我們也有算過這個大約需要的經費教育跟公務人員的部分加起來大概1.8 等於大概一年增加的額度大概2.38那2.38 坦白講 預算金額是不大\n那屬於中央的部分會中央來支付現在唯一比較有問題的就是有些地方政府他地方政府要編列這個預算來支應這一個部分所以現在整個案子還在我們外交國防法務處那邊所以那個人事長的意思就是說如果把公教人員也納進來的話Total全部加起來是2.38億\n對不對2.38億人長的意思說其實這個金額是可以可負擔的\n可是現在問題是在地方政府的部分因為屬於地方政府的部分地方政府我們必須要去協商因為大家也知道地方政府你額外要請沒有錯我知道因為對於地方政府來說地方政府現在最擔心的就是常常是中央請客然後是地方買單其實非常非常多所以這個地方政府的財政是確實可以去考量的\n那在這個考量所謂的就是說把公教人員也加進來之前我也想跟任市長做一個溝通為什麼我們會優先優先對於退役上校的子女先做補助\n因为来我们来看一下我们也去查过公教人员因为公教人员有他的退休办法强制退休办法基本上他的强制退休是年满65岁\n而且是任職滿五年但是對軍人他比較不一樣軍人的強制退休 事實上就說他如果在職務上他沒有辦法再晉級的話事實上他就必須退休所以相對軍人的退休的年齡事實上是比公教人員低很多的\n我們今天來看如果說我們看就是公教人員平均的退休年齡男性跟女性大概都是59歲上下平均年齡平均退休年齡但是如果我們看到上校級的\n上校級的退休年齡他就是在50歲以下大概將近49歲所以已經就是已經就是比他還年輕10歲就必須要退休所以這也是為什麼當時我們要推出這個修法最主要的就因為\n如果你是將軍退休其實那個時候他的子女說實在已經已經大部分並不需要教育補助了啦因為他的年齡的關係但是很多的退役上校那個時間正好是他壯年的時候他又必須強制退休所以這個是我們必須要跟人種去做這樣的溝通那我是認為說既然我們在明年行政院也編列了預算\n退府會也把這個發起辦法也通通都修好了那麼我們至少至少要讓他明年可以正式的開始上路那您剛剛講的對公教人員我在這邊也感謝任總把公教人員也把他納入來考量現在唯一的是\n希望就是跟地方政府來做溝通嘛因為公教是必須要地方政府也要出錢那所以也像我們現在不是在修正才化法那我們一直在講就是說如果行政院把把才化法把中央跟地方之間的權責能夠講得更清楚而且說實在這次會講說給地方這麼多錢然後呢你地方沒有分擔什麼相關的業務但是事實上我剛才講的\n就是過去長期以來中央請客中央有很多的政策一下去都是地方在買單我現在因為我知道那個人市長其實跟很多的地方的縣市首長也很熟啦我相信他們也一定有這樣抱怨尤其在財政比較困難的縣市所以\n我支持剛才人事長所講的把它擴及到公教人員我講就是說尤其像這個我們軍人在你退休的時候是壯年然後你最需要用錢的時候你又可能還要去找其他工作但是小孩又在就學這個時候政府應該要給予\n照顧尤其我們現在講國防任性國防任性我們現在這麼缺兵對不對這麼缺兵那如何能夠讓軍人認為國家真的可以照顧到你的這個家庭你也可以都能照顧子女的教育也都能夠照顧好所以那麼人事長我想請問那你們什麼時候可以核定呢\n這個核定權應該不是在人總目前還在行政院外交國防法務處當然當然但是現在說卡在人總啊沒有卡在人總啦因為人總沒有不會去卡人家的我們都是在協助人家去把一些事情趕快更順暢不過這裡利用這個機會跟委員提一下當初公務人員他可以退休子女教卜\n它本來是在它的月退休奉要2萬5以下後來就是調到2萬8可是在上校的部分因為我們有初步推估上校的它的一個月退休奉大概接近5萬左右兩邊有一點落差所以為了\n橫平性的考量所以那時候上校指你的退伏的部分我們就是在整個年改制度的設計裡面有做一些設計現在的時空環境不一樣我想大家再來對話\n好所以那人事長的意思也是說我們現在讓軍人就是退役軍人上校以上能夠補助子女教育補助所以我們現在我們現在行政院的政策方向也是讓公教人員同一個這個這個值等的也把它拉上來是不是也一樣就是也一樣做這個這是人種的一個期待當你你有照顧到K5軍人上校的部分那我其他\n提高到五萬塊其實我要講的就是我們現在因為剛才也有很多委員關心年改的問題我們在年改裡面其實就已經一國好幾制了\n其實就已經一國好幾制這為什麼在講說尤其這個所得替代率的部分比如說我們願意給軍人軍人所得替代率比較好那這個其實也是就是考慮到軍人付出而且以我們現階段大家希望能夠更多的這個軍人現在大家不要說現在連木兵也有問題不要增兵然後再加上不要說這個什麼散兵問題連木兵都有問題了\n所以我覺得在這是人事長所考慮的我同意我同意但是我希望這個既然第一個立法院通過總統公告然後那個行政院編列預算然後那個退府會也發起辦法全部都已經都已經完備在這樣的狀況之下至少至少明年明年1月他一定要上路一定要上路人事長同不同意\n這個決定錢不是在我這裡我知道啦但是你的意見很重要但是我們公教人員我們也會支持啦我們也會支持就如同剛才那個任市長所講的2.38億我們多多照顧一下我們的軍人尤其最近新的國安問題就是教師的\n这个已经是完全的缺人了就已经有人才荒非常大的一个人才那以我时间外我只问一件事我再问一件事情就是我们10月10号开始上路的就是这个身心架我刚才讲就说像教师人员他也有我们现在出现了国外问题教师难求教师难找因为大量的缺\n教師使得現在第一線的教師他的壓力特別特別的大他的時間也特別特別的長所以很快也不是說很快現在教師就成了另外一個血汗的產業那我想請問一下那麼身心調試價已經正式上路了嗎\n好 那到目前為止 任市長所了解這個身心條是這樣上路之後現在公務員敢請嗎 有請假嗎我跟委員報告 第一年我們大概會每一個月請各個我們會去統計這個資料 在每一個月的20號那目前因為今年10月 今天是10月29號\n所以我们在下一个月的20号会统计大概每一个月的20号我们会去做一次统计的资料做一次统计看看多少人请身心调试假然后随时做动态性的调整我们在网站上做揭露因为我觉得这样资讯透明公开会比较好一点对 因为其实很多人都认为身心调试假是需要的但是因为它并入试假又感觉好像\n這個好像有點不夠到位所以就是說我們現在每個月都會去做一個統計這樣也很好了讓我們各單位你是各單位還是全部全部把它一起統計我們全國會做一個統計我覺得你們也應該用各單位來做因為我們也要了解一下各單位會不會有哪一些單位要請身心調試假特別多\n這也是我有一種監看喔 基本上大概行政院會有二級機關啦然後二十二個縣市政府先這樣因為假如每一個單位他由縣市政府再往下會有二級三級機關構這樣可能數量會太多對對我覺得你做一個大致性的這樣子我們也比較知道哪一些單位的這個就是我們的公務人員他可能我們必須要我們必須要多關心一點\n那我覺得當然有一些比如說是比較特殊性例如像現在就是我們在防疫的部分非洲住溫房也許防疫人員他們可能身心就比較壓力會比較大一些他可能有的是有季節性的\n有的是有事件性的有的突發性等等那讓我們能夠多關心一下我們基層公務人員他們現在的這個身心狀況所以我覺得到時候啊那個也拜託這個身心價也就這個教職人員的部分你們來想想看怎麼樣讓我們可以去關心第一線的教職人員我剛才在講的這個是\n我們這麼多在教育我們把我們的孩子放到我們的學校裡面我們當然希望我們的老師是身心健康的我從以前當議員的時候就有很多老師學校跟我講老師都在吃百憂解所以我的意思就是說我們應該對這第一線多關懷一些多關懷一些比如說我講的防疫人員現在他是因為有事件性的\n那如果教室它是長期的一年四季一年365天它都有這樣的一個身心應該要紓解的問題那就值得我們更加重視人事長你是要補充這個我看你現在笑得很開心沒有就是教室的部分我們會請教育部去把這樣的資訊也跟我們一樣我們公務員的部分我們會處理教育的部分我們會通知教育部請教育部好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝王宏威\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.576 --> 00:19.358\n謝謝主席提醒我之前還不曉得我們有這個CO2的這個監測以後我們應該要做有氧運動你一上台馬上降了已經降到1400一下那我們努力維持比較好的這個空氣品質讓大家都能夠神清氣爽一點好謝謝主席我們請人事長請蘇人事長\n\n00:34.414 --> 00:35.874\n委員長早好委員長早有一個議題蠻重要的就是我們在上個會期通過了幾個對於包含現役軍人以及退伍軍人的一些優先法案\n\n00:51.679 --> 00:59.101\n那當然對於現役軍人的加薪非常遺憾而且我們還是要強力譴責即便是總統府公告之後但是行政院巨部編列預算但是同一時期我們所\n\n01:08.004 --> 01:35.196\n通過的也就是就是對於退出的退役的上校以上子女的教育補助那這部分行政院有編列預算所以我也不曉得行政院為什麼採取一個很奇怪的雙標因為當時呢包含現役軍人的加薪以及對於退役上校以上子女補助教育補助事實上我們是同時通過的\n\n01:36.957 --> 01:54.515\n那麼行政院選擇性的來編列預算好那所以呢這個有關於退役上校以上子女教育補助啊已經經過總統府公告而且呢我也特別去查你們也有編列預算\n\n01:55.456 --> 02:13.773\n然後我們退府會事實上所通過的這個預告的發起辦法裡面呢也還特別強調是今年8月底就應該執行那當然這個我們雖然它的其實\n\n02:15.194 --> 02:29.626\n他的對象不像是現役軍人嘉興這麼廣但是無論如何這是我們對於這個退休退役的上校以上尤其是當時是上校退休的的一個這個\n\n02:32.108 --> 02:49.272\n的一個幫助那現在以現在的進度來講聽說是卡在我們人種這邊那我想請問一下為什麼我們人種為什麼到現在因為如果你這邊OK的話人種OK的話行政院照理講應該會核定這個退府會這個辦法所以我想請問一下人種的考慮是什麼\n\n03:00.151 --> 03:14.760\n我謝謝給我這個時間因為人總不會卡這種案子因為之前不會卡我們之前一直在跟退伍會跟教育部在溝通就是說當要處理那個子女教卜的問題\n\n03:16.081 --> 03:40.933\n我們必須要同時考慮到進攻教這些退役的軍人還有教師還有公務人員那後來經過整個我們精算之後退伍費這裡大概需要一年大概五千多萬嘛對當時我們也有算過這個大約需要的經費教育跟公務人員的部分加起來大概1.8等於大概一年增加的額度大概2.38那2.38坦白講預算金額是不大\n\n03:44.355 --> 04:12.517\n那屬於中央的部分會中央來支付現在唯一比較有問題的就是有些地方政府他地方政府要編列這個預算來支應這一個部分所以現在整個案子還在我們外交國防法務處那邊所以那個人事長的意思就是說如果把公教人員也納進來的話Total全部加起來是2.38億\n\n04:15.615 --> 04:21.243\n對不對2.38億人長的意思說其實這個金額是可以可負擔的\n\n04:21.872 --> 04:37.400\n可是現在問題是在地方政府的部分因為屬於地方政府的部分地方政府我們必須要去協商因為大家也知道地方政府你額外要請沒有錯我知道因為對於地方政府來說地方政府現在最擔心的就是常常是中央請客然後是地方買單其實非常非常多所以這個地方政府的財政是確實可以去考量的\n\n04:51.087 --> 05:07.355\n那在這個考量所謂的就是說把公教人員也加進來之前我也想跟任市長做一個溝通為什麼我們會優先優先對於退役上校的子女先做補助\n\n05:08.456 --> 05:20.037\n因为来我们来看一下我们也去查过公教人员因为公教人员有他的退休办法强制退休办法基本上他的强制退休是年满65岁\n\n05:22.256 --> 05:46.765\n而且是任職滿五年但是對軍人他比較不一樣軍人的強制退休事實上就說他如果在職務上他沒有辦法再晉級的話事實上他就必須退休所以相對軍人的退休的年齡事實上是比公教人員低很多的\n\n05:47.205 --> 06:02.574\n我們今天來看如果說我們看就是公教人員平均的退休年齡男性跟女性大概都是59歲上下平均年齡平均退休年齡但是如果我們看到上校級的\n\n06:03.755 --> 06:20.935\n上校級的退休年齡他就是在50歲以下大概將近49歲所以已經就是已經就是比他還年輕10歲就必須要退休所以這也是為什麼當時我們要推出這個修法最主要的就因為\n\n06:21.656 --> 06:50.297\n如果你是將軍退休其實那個時候他的子女說實在已經已經大部分並不需要教育補助了啦因為他的年齡的關係但是很多的退役上校那個時間正好是他壯年的時候他又必須強制退休所以這個是我們必須要跟人種去做這樣的溝通那我是認為說既然我們在明年行政院也編列了預算\n\n06:51.258 --> 07:14.241\n退府會也把這個發起辦法也通通都修好了那麼我們至少至少要讓他明年可以正式的開始上路那您剛剛講的對公教人員我在這邊也感謝任總把公教人員也把他納入來考量現在唯一的是\n\n07:14.921 --> 07:32.453\n希望就是跟地方政府來做溝通嘛因為公教是必須要地方政府也要出錢那所以也像我們現在不是在修正才化法那我們一直在講就是說如果行政院把把才化法把中央跟地方之間的權責能夠講得更清楚而且說實在這次會講說給地方這麼多錢然後呢你地方沒有分擔什麼相關的業務但是事實上我剛才講的\n\n07:45.081 --> 08:06.715\n就是過去長期以來中央請客中央有很多的政策一下去都是地方在買單我現在因為我知道那個人市長其實跟很多的地方的縣市首長也很熟啦我相信他們也一定有這樣抱怨尤其在財政比較困難的縣市所以\n\n08:07.512 --> 08:28.776\n我支持剛才人事長所講的把它擴及到公教人員我講就是說尤其像這個我們軍人在你退休的時候是壯年然後你最需要用錢的時候你又可能還要去找其他工作但是小孩又在就學這個時候政府應該要給予\n\n08:31.977 --> 08:51.290\n照顧尤其我們現在講國防任性國防任性我們現在這麼缺兵對不對這麼缺兵那如何能夠讓軍人認為國家真的可以照顧到你的這個家庭你也可以都能照顧子女的教育也都能夠照顧好所以那麼人事長我想請問那你們什麼時候可以核定呢\n\n08:56.678 --> 09:25.148\n這個核定權應該不是在人總目前還在行政院外交國防法務處當然當然但是現在說卡在人總啊沒有卡在人總啦因為人總沒有不會去卡人家的我們都是在協助人家去把一些事情趕快更順暢不過這裡利用這個機會跟委員提一下當初公務人員他可以退休子女教卜\n\n09:25.808 --> 09:45.121\n它本來是在它的月退休奉要2萬5以下後來就是調到2萬8可是在上校的部分因為我們有初步推估上校的它的一個月退休奉大概接近5萬左右兩邊有一點落差所以為了\n\n09:46.223 --> 10:00.643\n橫平性的考量所以那時候上校指你的退伏的部分我們就是在整個年改制度的設計裡面有做一些設計現在的時空環境不一樣我想大家再來對話\n\n10:02.085 --> 10:23.869\n好所以那人事長的意思也是說我們現在讓軍人就是退役軍人上校以上能夠補助子女教育補助所以我們現在我們現在行政院的政策方向也是讓公教人員同一個這個這個值等的也把它拉上來是不是也一樣就是也一樣做這個這是人種的一個期待當你你有照顧到K5軍人上校的部分那我其他\n\n10:39.560 --> 10:59.959\n提高到五萬塊其實我要講的就是我們現在因為剛才也有很多委員關心年改的問題我們在年改裡面其實就已經一國好幾制了\n\n11:00.925 --> 11:27.866\n其實就已經一國好幾制這為什麼在講說尤其這個所得替代率的部分比如說我們願意給軍人軍人所得替代率比較好那這個其實也是就是考慮到軍人付出而且以我們現階段大家希望能夠更多的這個軍人現在大家不要說現在連木兵也有問題不要增兵然後再加上不要說這個什麼散兵問題連木兵都有問題了\n\n11:30.407 --> 11:57.718\n所以我覺得在這是人事長所考慮的我同意我同意但是我希望這個既然第一個立法院通過總統公告然後那個行政院編列預算然後那個退府會也發起辦法全部都已經都已經完備在這樣的狀況之下至少至少明年明年1月他一定要上路一定要上路人事長同不同意\n\n12:00.034 --> 12:05.876\n這個決定錢不是在我這裡我知道啦但是你的意見很重要但是我們公教人員我們也會支持啦我們也會支持就如同剛才那個任市長所講的2.38億我們多多照顧一下我們的軍人尤其最近新的國安問題就是教師的\n\n12:24.423 --> 12:53.263\n这个已经是完全的缺人了就已经有人才荒非常大的一个人才那以我时间外我只问一件事我再问一件事情就是我们10月10号开始上路的就是这个身心架我刚才讲就说像教师人员他也有我们现在出现了国外问题教师难求教师难找因为大量的缺\n\n12:54.204 --> 13:10.630\n教師使得現在第一線的教師他的壓力特別特別的大他的時間也特別特別的長所以很快也不是說很快現在教師就成了另外一個血汗的產業那我想請問一下那麼身心調試價已經正式上路了嗎\n\n13:16.132 --> 13:39.107\n好那到目前為止任市長所了解這個身心條是這樣上路之後現在公務員敢請嗎有請假嗎我跟委員報告第一年我們大概會每一個月請各個我們會去統計這個資料在每一個月的20號那目前因為今年10月今天是10月29號\n\n13:40.248 --> 14:08.464\n所以我们在下一个月的20号会统计大概每一个月的20号我们会去做一次统计的资料做一次统计看看多少人请身心调试假然后随时做动态性的调整我们在网站上做揭露因为我觉得这样资讯透明公开会比较好一点对因为其实很多人都认为身心调试假是需要的但是因为它并入试假又感觉好像\n\n14:10.325 --> 14:35.024\n這個好像有點不夠到位所以就是說我們現在每個月都會去做一個統計這樣也很好了讓我們各單位你是各單位還是全部全部把它一起統計我們全國會做一個統計我覺得你們也應該用各單位來做因為我們也要了解一下各單位會不會有哪一些單位要請身心調試假特別多\n\n14:36.318 --> 15:02.822\n這也是我有一種監看喔基本上大概行政院會有二級機關啦然後二十二個縣市政府先這樣因為假如每一個單位他由縣市政府再往下會有二級三級機關構這樣可能數量會太多對對我覺得你做一個大致性的這樣子我們也比較知道哪一些單位的這個就是我們的公務人員他可能我們必須要我們必須要多關心一點\n\n15:04.003 --> 15:20.115\n那我覺得當然有一些比如說是比較特殊性例如像現在就是我們在防疫的部分非洲住溫房也許防疫人員他們可能身心就比較壓力會比較大一些他可能有的是有季節性的\n\n15:20.495 --> 15:30.602\n有的是有事件性的有的突發性等等那讓我們能夠多關心一下我們基層公務人員他們現在的這個身心狀況所以我覺得到時候啊那個也拜託這個身心價也就這個教職人員的部分你們來想想看怎麼樣讓我們可以去關心第一線的教職人員我剛才在講的這個是\n\n15:44.412 --> 16:09.785\n我們這麼多在教育我們把我們的孩子放到我們的學校裡面我們當然希望我們的老師是身心健康的我從以前當議員的時候就有很多老師學校跟我講老師都在吃百憂解所以我的意思就是說我們應該對這第一線多關懷一些多關懷一些比如說我講的防疫人員現在他是因為有事件性的\n\n16:10.285 --> 16:15.508\n那如果教室它是長期的一年四季一年365天它都有這樣的一個身心應該要紓解的問題那就值得我們更加重視人事長你是要補充這個我看你現在笑得很開心沒有就是教室的部分我們會請教育部去把這樣的資訊也跟我們一樣我們公務員的部分我們會處理教育的部分我們會通知教育部請教育部好不好好謝謝好謝謝王宏威\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.576,"end":19.358,"text":"謝謝主席提醒我之前還不曉得我們有這個CO2的這個監測以後我們應該要做有氧運動你一上台馬上降了已經降到1400一下那我們努力維持比較好的這個空氣品質讓大家都能夠神清氣爽一點好謝謝主席我們請人事長請蘇人事長"},{"start":34.414,"end":35.874,"text":"委員長早好 委員長早有一個議題蠻重要的就是我們在上個會期通過了幾個對於包含現役軍人以及退伍軍人的一些優先法案"},{"start":51.679,"end":59.101,"text":"那當然對於現役軍人的加薪非常遺憾而且我們還是要強力譴責即便是總統府公告之後但是行政院巨部編列預算但是同一時期我們所"},{"start":68.004,"end":95.196,"text":"通過的也就是就是對於退出的退役的上校以上子女的教育補助那這部分行政院有編列預算所以我也不曉得行政院為什麼採取一個很奇怪的雙標因為當時呢包含現役軍人的加薪以及對於退役上校以上子女補助教育補助事實上我們是同時通過的"},{"start":96.957,"end":114.515,"text":"那麼行政院選擇性的來編列預算好那所以呢這個有關於退役上校以上子女教育補助啊已經經過總統府公告而且呢我也特別去查你們也有編列預算"},{"start":115.456,"end":133.773,"text":"然後我們退府會事實上所通過的這個預告的發起辦法裡面呢也還特別強調是今年8月底就應該執行那當然這個我們雖然它的其實"},{"start":135.194,"end":149.626,"text":"他的對象不像是現役軍人嘉興這麼廣但是無論如何這是我們對於這個退休退役的上校以上尤其是當時是上校退休的的一個這個"},{"start":152.108,"end":169.272,"text":"的一個幫助那現在以現在的進度來講聽說是卡在我們人種這邊那我想請問一下為什麼我們人種為什麼到現在因為如果你這邊OK的話人種OK的話行政院照理講應該會核定這個退府會這個辦法所以我想請問一下人種的考慮是什麼"},{"start":180.151,"end":194.76,"text":"我謝謝給我這個時間因為人總不會卡這種案子因為之前不會卡我們之前一直在跟退伍會跟教育部在溝通就是說當要處理那個子女教卜的問題"},{"start":196.081,"end":220.933,"text":"我們必須要同時考慮到進攻教這些退役的軍人還有教師 還有公務人員那後來經過整個我們精算之後退伍費這裡大概需要一年大概五千多萬嘛對 當時我們也有算過這個大約需要的經費教育跟公務人員的部分加起來大概1.8 等於大概一年增加的額度大概2.38那2.38 坦白講 預算金額是不大"},{"start":224.355,"end":252.517,"text":"那屬於中央的部分會中央來支付現在唯一比較有問題的就是有些地方政府他地方政府要編列這個預算來支應這一個部分所以現在整個案子還在我們外交國防法務處那邊所以那個人事長的意思就是說如果把公教人員也納進來的話Total全部加起來是2.38億"},{"start":255.615,"end":261.243,"text":"對不對2.38億人長的意思說其實這個金額是可以可負擔的"},{"start":261.872,"end":277.4,"text":"可是現在問題是在地方政府的部分因為屬於地方政府的部分地方政府我們必須要去協商因為大家也知道地方政府你額外要請沒有錯我知道因為對於地方政府來說地方政府現在最擔心的就是常常是中央請客然後是地方買單其實非常非常多所以這個地方政府的財政是確實可以去考量的"},{"start":291.087,"end":307.355,"text":"那在這個考量所謂的就是說把公教人員也加進來之前我也想跟任市長做一個溝通為什麼我們會優先優先對於退役上校的子女先做補助"},{"start":308.456,"end":320.037,"text":"因为来我们来看一下我们也去查过公教人员因为公教人员有他的退休办法强制退休办法基本上他的强制退休是年满65岁"},{"start":322.256,"end":346.765,"text":"而且是任職滿五年但是對軍人他比較不一樣軍人的強制退休 事實上就說他如果在職務上他沒有辦法再晉級的話事實上他就必須退休所以相對軍人的退休的年齡事實上是比公教人員低很多的"},{"start":347.205,"end":362.574,"text":"我們今天來看如果說我們看就是公教人員平均的退休年齡男性跟女性大概都是59歲上下平均年齡平均退休年齡但是如果我們看到上校級的"},{"start":363.755,"end":380.935,"text":"上校級的退休年齡他就是在50歲以下大概將近49歲所以已經就是已經就是比他還年輕10歲就必須要退休所以這也是為什麼當時我們要推出這個修法最主要的就因為"},{"start":381.656,"end":410.297,"text":"如果你是將軍退休其實那個時候他的子女說實在已經已經大部分並不需要教育補助了啦因為他的年齡的關係但是很多的退役上校那個時間正好是他壯年的時候他又必須強制退休所以這個是我們必須要跟人種去做這樣的溝通那我是認為說既然我們在明年行政院也編列了預算"},{"start":411.258,"end":434.241,"text":"退府會也把這個發起辦法也通通都修好了那麼我們至少至少要讓他明年可以正式的開始上路那您剛剛講的對公教人員我在這邊也感謝任總把公教人員也把他納入來考量現在唯一的是"},{"start":434.921,"end":452.453,"text":"希望就是跟地方政府來做溝通嘛因為公教是必須要地方政府也要出錢那所以也像我們現在不是在修正才化法那我們一直在講就是說如果行政院把把才化法把中央跟地方之間的權責能夠講得更清楚而且說實在這次會講說給地方這麼多錢然後呢你地方沒有分擔什麼相關的業務但是事實上我剛才講的"},{"start":465.081,"end":486.715,"text":"就是過去長期以來中央請客中央有很多的政策一下去都是地方在買單我現在因為我知道那個人市長其實跟很多的地方的縣市首長也很熟啦我相信他們也一定有這樣抱怨尤其在財政比較困難的縣市所以"},{"start":487.512,"end":508.776,"text":"我支持剛才人事長所講的把它擴及到公教人員我講就是說尤其像這個我們軍人在你退休的時候是壯年然後你最需要用錢的時候你又可能還要去找其他工作但是小孩又在就學這個時候政府應該要給予"},{"start":511.977,"end":531.29,"text":"照顧尤其我們現在講國防任性國防任性我們現在這麼缺兵對不對這麼缺兵那如何能夠讓軍人認為國家真的可以照顧到你的這個家庭你也可以都能照顧子女的教育也都能夠照顧好所以那麼人事長我想請問那你們什麼時候可以核定呢"},{"start":536.678,"end":565.148,"text":"這個核定權應該不是在人總目前還在行政院外交國防法務處當然當然但是現在說卡在人總啊沒有卡在人總啦因為人總沒有不會去卡人家的我們都是在協助人家去把一些事情趕快更順暢不過這裡利用這個機會跟委員提一下當初公務人員他可以退休子女教卜"},{"start":565.808,"end":585.121,"text":"它本來是在它的月退休奉要2萬5以下後來就是調到2萬8可是在上校的部分因為我們有初步推估上校的它的一個月退休奉大概接近5萬左右兩邊有一點落差所以為了"},{"start":586.223,"end":600.643,"text":"橫平性的考量所以那時候上校指你的退伏的部分我們就是在整個年改制度的設計裡面有做一些設計現在的時空環境不一樣我想大家再來對話"},{"start":602.085,"end":623.869,"text":"好所以那人事長的意思也是說我們現在讓軍人就是退役軍人上校以上能夠補助子女教育補助所以我們現在我們現在行政院的政策方向也是讓公教人員同一個這個這個值等的也把它拉上來是不是也一樣就是也一樣做這個這是人種的一個期待當你你有照顧到K5軍人上校的部分那我其他"},{"start":639.56,"end":659.959,"text":"提高到五萬塊其實我要講的就是我們現在因為剛才也有很多委員關心年改的問題我們在年改裡面其實就已經一國好幾制了"},{"start":660.925,"end":687.866,"text":"其實就已經一國好幾制這為什麼在講說尤其這個所得替代率的部分比如說我們願意給軍人軍人所得替代率比較好那這個其實也是就是考慮到軍人付出而且以我們現階段大家希望能夠更多的這個軍人現在大家不要說現在連木兵也有問題不要增兵然後再加上不要說這個什麼散兵問題連木兵都有問題了"},{"start":690.407,"end":717.718,"text":"所以我覺得在這是人事長所考慮的我同意我同意但是我希望這個既然第一個立法院通過總統公告然後那個行政院編列預算然後那個退府會也發起辦法全部都已經都已經完備在這樣的狀況之下至少至少明年明年1月他一定要上路一定要上路人事長同不同意"},{"start":720.034,"end":725.876,"text":"這個決定錢不是在我這裡我知道啦但是你的意見很重要但是我們公教人員我們也會支持啦我們也會支持就如同剛才那個任市長所講的2.38億我們多多照顧一下我們的軍人尤其最近新的國安問題就是教師的"},{"start":744.423,"end":773.263,"text":"这个已经是完全的缺人了就已经有人才荒非常大的一个人才那以我时间外我只问一件事我再问一件事情就是我们10月10号开始上路的就是这个身心架我刚才讲就说像教师人员他也有我们现在出现了国外问题教师难求教师难找因为大量的缺"},{"start":774.204,"end":790.63,"text":"教師使得現在第一線的教師他的壓力特別特別的大他的時間也特別特別的長所以很快也不是說很快現在教師就成了另外一個血汗的產業那我想請問一下那麼身心調試價已經正式上路了嗎"},{"start":796.132,"end":819.107,"text":"好 那到目前為止 任市長所了解這個身心條是這樣上路之後現在公務員敢請嗎 有請假嗎我跟委員報告 第一年我們大概會每一個月請各個我們會去統計這個資料 在每一個月的20號那目前因為今年10月 今天是10月29號"},{"start":820.248,"end":848.464,"text":"所以我们在下一个月的20号会统计大概每一个月的20号我们会去做一次统计的资料做一次统计看看多少人请身心调试假然后随时做动态性的调整我们在网站上做揭露因为我觉得这样资讯透明公开会比较好一点对 因为其实很多人都认为身心调试假是需要的但是因为它并入试假又感觉好像"},{"start":850.325,"end":875.024,"text":"這個好像有點不夠到位所以就是說我們現在每個月都會去做一個統計這樣也很好了讓我們各單位你是各單位還是全部全部把它一起統計我們全國會做一個統計我覺得你們也應該用各單位來做因為我們也要了解一下各單位會不會有哪一些單位要請身心調試假特別多"},{"start":876.318,"end":902.822,"text":"這也是我有一種監看喔 基本上大概行政院會有二級機關啦然後二十二個縣市政府先這樣因為假如每一個單位他由縣市政府再往下會有二級三級機關構這樣可能數量會太多對對我覺得你做一個大致性的這樣子我們也比較知道哪一些單位的這個就是我們的公務人員他可能我們必須要我們必須要多關心一點"},{"start":904.003,"end":920.115,"text":"那我覺得當然有一些比如說是比較特殊性例如像現在就是我們在防疫的部分非洲住溫房也許防疫人員他們可能身心就比較壓力會比較大一些他可能有的是有季節性的"},{"start":920.495,"end":930.602,"text":"有的是有事件性的有的突發性等等那讓我們能夠多關心一下我們基層公務人員他們現在的這個身心狀況所以我覺得到時候啊那個也拜託這個身心價也就這個教職人員的部分你們來想想看怎麼樣讓我們可以去關心第一線的教職人員我剛才在講的這個是"},{"start":944.412,"end":969.785,"text":"我們這麼多在教育我們把我們的孩子放到我們的學校裡面我們當然希望我們的老師是身心健康的我從以前當議員的時候就有很多老師學校跟我講老師都在吃百憂解所以我的意思就是說我們應該對這第一線多關懷一些多關懷一些比如說我講的防疫人員現在他是因為有事件性的"},{"start":970.285,"end":975.508,"text":"那如果教室它是長期的一年四季一年365天它都有這樣的一個身心應該要紓解的問題那就值得我們更加重視人事長你是要補充這個我看你現在笑得很開心沒有就是教室的部分我們會請教育部去把這樣的資訊也跟我們一樣我們公務員的部分我們會處理教育的部分我們會通知教育部請教育部好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝王宏威"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":442,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時26分）謝謝主席提醒，我之前還不曉得我們有二氧化碳的監測，以後我們應該要做有氧運動，是不是？"],["主席：你看，你一上臺馬上降。"],["王委員鴻薇：已經降到1,400以下了，我們努力維持比較好的空氣品質，讓大家都能夠神清氣爽一點。謝謝主席，我們請人事長。"],["主席：請蘇人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早。"],["王委員鴻薇：人事長早。有一個議題蠻重要的，我們在上個會期通過了幾個包含現役軍人以及退伍軍人的一些優先法案，當然對於現役軍人的加薪非常遺憾，我們還是要強力譴責，即便是總統府公告後，行政院還是拒編列預算。但是同一時期，我們所通過對於退役上校以上子女的教育補助，行政院卻有編列預算，所以我也不曉得行政院為什麼採取一個很奇怪的雙標。事實上，當時包含現役軍人的加薪，以及對於退役上校以上子女教育補助，我們是同時通過的，但是行政院選擇性的來編列預算。退役上校以上子女教育補助已經經過總統府公告，而且我也特別去查，你們也有編列預算，事實上我們退輔會所通過的預告發給辦法裡面，也還特別強調是今年8月底就應該執行。雖然他的對象不像對現役軍人加薪般影響這麼廣，但是無論如何，這是我們對於退役的上校以上同仁的幫助。以現在的進度來講，聽說卡在人總，因為如果人總OK的話，行政院照理講應該會核定退輔會這個辦法，所以我想請問一下，人總的考慮是什麼？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝委員給我這個時間，人總不會卡這種案子啦！因為之前……"],["王委員鴻薇：不會卡？好。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們之前一直在跟退輔會、跟教育部溝通，當要處理子女教補的問題時，我們必須要同時考慮到軍公教這些退役的軍人，還有教師，還有公務人員，後來經過我們整個精算之後，退輔會大概一年需要五千多萬。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，當時我們也有算過這個大約需要的經費。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：教育跟公務人員的部分加起來大概1.8億，等於一年增加的額度大概2.38億，坦白講2.38億的預算金額是不大，屬於中央的部分會由中央來支付，現在唯一比較有問題的是，有些地方政府要編列預算來支應這個部分，所以現在整個案子還在外交國防法務處那邊。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以人事長的意思是，如果把公教人員也納進來的話，total（全部）加起來是2.38億，對不對？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：2.38億，人事長的意思是，其實這個金額是可負擔的？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：可是現在問題是在地方政府，屬於地方政府的部分，我們必須要和地方政府協商，大家也知道額外要請地方政府……"],["王委員鴻薇：沒有錯，我知道對於地方政府來說，地方政府現在最擔心的常常是中央請客然後地方買單，這其實非常非常多，所以地方政府的財政是確實可以去考量的。這個考量是把公教人員也加進來之前，我也想跟人事長做一個溝通，為什麼我們會優先對於退役上校的子女做補助？我們來看一下，我們也去查過公教人員，因為公教人員有他們的強制退休辦法，基本上他們的強制退休是年滿65歲，而且任職滿5年；但是軍人比較不一樣，軍人的強制退休事實上是他在那個職務上沒有辦法再晉級的話，那他就必須退休，所以相對於軍人的退休年齡，事實上他們是比公教人員低很多的。","我們今天來看公教人員平均的退休年齡，男性跟女性大概都是59歲上下，這是平均退休年齡，但我們看到上校級的退休年齡是在50歲以下，將近49歲，相比之下年輕10歲就必須要退休，這也是當時我們為什麼要推出這個修法最主要的原因。如果是將軍退休，那時他的子女說實在已經大部分不需要教育補助了，因為他年齡的關係，但很多退役上校那時正好是壯年的時候，他又必須強制退休，所以我們必須要跟人總做這樣的溝通。","我是認為，既然明年行政院也編列了預算，退輔會也把這個發給辦法通通都修好了，那麼我們至少要讓它明年可以正式開始上路。您剛剛講的，對於公教人員，我在這邊感謝人總把公教人員也納入考量，現在唯一希望的就是跟地方政府來做溝通，因為公教必須要地方政府也出錢。我們現在不是在修正財劃法，我們一直在講的，如果行政院在財劃法把中央跟地方之間的權責能夠講得更清楚，說實在這次說要給地方這麼多錢，然後地方沒有分擔什麼相關的業務，但事實上如我剛才講的，過去長期以來中央請客，但中央有很多政策一下去都是地方在買單，因為我知道人事長其實跟很多地方的縣市首長也很熟，我相信他們也一定有這樣的抱怨，尤其在財政比較困難的縣市。所以我支持剛才人事長所講的，把它擴及到公教人員，尤其軍人在退休的時候是壯年，最需要用錢的時候可能還要去找其他工作，但小孩又還在就學，這個時候政府應該要給予照顧。我們現在講國防韌性、國防韌性，現在這麼缺兵，對不對？如何能夠讓軍人認為國家真的可以照顧到自己的家庭，子女的教育也都能夠照顧。人事長，我想請問你們什麼時候可以核定呢？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這個核定權應該不是在人總，目前還在行政院外交國防法務處，另外……"],["王委員鴻薇：當然、當然，但現在說卡在人總啊！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：沒有卡在人總啦！人總不會去卡人家，我們是在協助人家，把一些事情處理的更順暢。不過，利用這個機會跟委員提一下，當初公務人員可以領退休子女教補，本來月退休俸是在25,000以下，後來調到28,000；可是在上校的部分，因為我們有初步推估，上校的月退休俸大概接近50,000萬左右，兩邊有一些落差，所以為了衡平性的考量，那時上校子女教補的部分，我們在整個年改制度裡面有做一些設計，現在的時空環境不一樣，我想大家會再來對話。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以人事長的意思是，我們現在讓退役軍人上校以上能夠領子女教育補助，現在行政院的政策方向也是讓公教人員在同一個職等的把它拉上來，是不是？也一樣做……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這是人總的期待，只有照顧到退伍軍人上校的部分，其他的公務同仁本來是28,000以內才可以適用，我們是不是也可以考慮把它……"],["王委員鴻薇：提高到5萬塊？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：不是，就是大家一體適用的概念，因為我覺得軍公教不要做內部相對的比較，有時候……"],["王委員鴻薇：我要講的就是，因為剛才也有很多委員關心年改的問題，我們在年改裡面其實就已經一國好幾制了，尤其在講所得替代率的部分，比如說我們願意給軍人所得替代率比較好，這其實也是考慮到軍人的付出，而且我們現階段希望能夠有更多的軍人，但現在不要說徵兵，再加上什麼閃兵問題，連募兵都有問題了。所以人事長所考慮的我同意，但我希望這既然是立法院通過，總統公告，然後行政院編列預算，退輔會的發給辦法全部都已經完備，在這樣的狀況之下，至少明年1月一定要上路，人事長同不同意？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這個決定權不是在我這裡，我同意的話，等於是我對你開了芭樂票，這樣不好……"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道，但是你的意見很重要，當然公教人員我們也會支持啦！就如同剛才人事長所講的2.38億，多多照顧一下軍人，尤其最近新的國安問題是教師已經完全的缺人，已經有人才荒，非常非常大的人才荒。","時間的關係，我再問一件事情，就是10月10號開始上路的身心假，我剛才講的教師人員也有……我們現在出現了國安問題，教師難求、教師難找，因為大量缺教師，使得現在第一線教師的壓力特別特別的大，時間也特別特別的長，所以很快……也不是很快，現在教師成了另外一個血汗產業，我想請問一下，身心調適假已經正式上路了嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：10月10號。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，到目前為止，就人事長所了解，身心調適假上路之後，現在公務員敢請嗎？有請假嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：跟委員報告，第一年我們大概會每一個月去統計這個資料，在每一個月的20號，因為今年10月才開始實施，今天是10月29號，所以我們在下個月20號會去統計，大概每個月的20號會去做一次統計。"],["王委員鴻薇：做一次統計，看各個……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對，看看多少人請身心調適假，我們會做這樣的統計。"],["王委員鴻薇：然後隨時做動態的調整嘛！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們會在網站上做揭露，因為……"],["王委員鴻薇：在網站上揭露很好啊！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：因為我覺得資訊透明公開會比較好一點。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，因為其實很多人都認為身心調適假是需要的，但是因為併入事假，又感覺好像有點不夠到位，所以你們每個月都會去做一個統計？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：這樣也很好，你是各單位分別統計還是全國夯不啷噹全部一起統計？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們全國會做一個統計……"],["王委員鴻薇：我覺得你們也應該各單位分別來做，因為我們也想了解一下有哪一些單位請身心調適假的人特別多，這也是某一種監看喔……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：基本上，大概行政院會是二級機關，然後22個縣市政府，先這樣……"],["王委員鴻薇：可以啊！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：因為假如要每個單位做統計，由縣市政府再往下會有二級、三級機關（構），這樣可能數量會太多。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，我覺得你做一個大致性的統計，這樣子我們也比較知道哪一些單位的公務人員可能是我們必須要多關心一點的。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。"],["王委員鴻薇：我覺得當然有一些是比較具特殊性的，例如像現在我們在做非洲豬瘟的防疫，也許防疫人員他們可能身心上的壓力會比較大一些，有的是有季節性的、有的是事件性的、有的是突發性等等，讓我們能夠多關心一下基層公務人員現在的身心狀況，另外針對教職人員的身心假部分，也請你們想想看要怎麼樣讓我們可以去關心第一線的教職人員。我剛才在講的，我們把孩子放到學校裡面，當然希望學校的老師是身心健康的，以前我當議員的時候就有很多老師、學校跟我講，老師都在吃百憂解。所以我的意思就是說，我們應該對第一線人員多關懷一些，比如我講的防疫人員，這個現在是因為事件性的，如果教師是長期的、一年四季、一年365天都有身心要抒解的問題，那就值得我們更加重視。人事長，你是要補充嗎？我看你笑得很開心。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：沒有，就是教師的部分，我們會請教育部在資訊的部分也跟我們一樣，公務員的部分我們會處理，教育的部分，我們會通知教育部。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，請教育部去做，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王鴻薇委員。現在數值又降了300，所以窗戶打開是有用的。","我先做會議程序的預告，稍後在翁曉玲委員詢答完畢以後休息5分鐘。","現在請吳思瑤委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-5","speakers":["莊瑞雄","吳宗憲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","林倩綺","王義川","羅智強","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈發惠","傅崐萁"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00006"}}}