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525.751, \"end\": 525.891, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"题\", \"start\": 525.891, \"end\": 526.012, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 526.012, \"end\": 527.012, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 527.012, \"end\": 528.112, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 528.112, \"end\": 528.252, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 528.252, \"end\": 528.272, \"score\": 0.052}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,865 --> 00:00:34,535\n谢谢主席我想要请龚部长还有李书长龚部长还有书长李书长部长早谢文好我想请问一下就是说我们三大国际的公有云业者像MLM然后GoogleMicrosoft都在全台湾设立这样子或者是已经设立了\n\n2\n00:00:34,935 --> 00:01:00,197\n那还要扩大我们区域的资料中心那代表了下一个世代我们台湾会进入了这样子多云竞争的这个局面那我想要请问一下就是再加上你们所说的AI新十大建设你们要投入311亿的预算\n\n3\n00:01:00,737 --> 00:01:27,674\n那對於未來AI以及相關這樣子的多元競爭的總電力需求我想要請問一下你們有沒有做重新的評估還是你們維持了去年或者是就是過去你們所預估平均每年就是2.8%這樣子的一個年成長量或者是當然\n\n4\n00:01:28,234 --> 00:01:50,868\n我們知道的你過去是平均2.8%那會不會這個平均會在前幾年有一種爆炸性的這樣子需求的增加而導致目前我們的電網有沒有辦法負荷這樣子相關的電力的增加呢有沒有辦法\n\n5\n00:01:51,628 --> 00:02:11,223\n报告委员事实上我们电力上的需求跟供应每年都在滚动式的检讨那电力供需报告也会出报告那事实上您刚才提到比较大型的业者他们如果要设立DataCenter也好或是什么事实上他都要跟我们联合署跟台电公司来先说明\n\n6\n00:02:12,183 --> 00:02:38,915\n有電他才有辦法去做這個事情就是說包括工業區的開發業或是什麼他們必須要讓我們知道就是說他們可能需要的電力需求多少我們要去預作一些準備那所以根本報告就是過去到至少到2032年之前他們的比較重要的這些這個設施將來可能要運作的部分我們大概都已經有掌握了那也做了一些因應的處置\n\n7\n00:02:39,956 --> 00:02:48,825\n更詳細的是不是請署長那請署長說一下這個我們都納入估計那我們怎麼估計有三個來源第一個就是他做環評的時候\n\n8\n00:02:50,205 --> 00:03:13,176\n那么我们就知道他这个电厂送还品的他大概需要多少用电量第二个就是说他在真正建厂前大概三年以前他就要跟台电公司申请供电那另外一个资料我们是来自于我们的产发署那他会掌握这些企业比较长期的脉动那我们就是把这个三个资料加在一起互相比对\n\n9\n00:03:13,556 --> 00:03:19,770\n那我們每年會滾動檢討檢討完我們會出電力供需報告大概每年我們都會這樣子滾動再檢討所以會隨著它的實際的狀況\n\n10\n00:03:24,161 --> 00:03:53,468\n我們每年都會來調這個數字好那理能源署也提到了你們要做三個即時的建設就是新機組電網變電所的變更還有儲能還有以及我們所有目前的新建的所有發電的機組還有電網升級那我想要請問你們這樣子即時的就是建設你們現在目前進度如何\n\n11\n00:03:54,068 --> 00:04:11,200\n那你說了要跟業界就是說這些用電的新的需求NVIDIA還沒來喔那等到它來的時候那未來你們要怎麼樣子有一個及時的這樣子一個調配的中心嗎\n\n12\n00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:33,231\n就是關於就是電力的需求的即時的調配中心嗎那未來因應整個AI建設的需求的時候你才有辦法有一個調配的中心嘛你沒有調配的中心的時候這樣用電需求如果突然有爆炸性的成長的時候你怎麼樣子做那你怎麼樣子去協調\n\n13\n00:04:34,881 --> 00:05:04,188\n是报告这个电力的调配那就分为长期的跟及时短期的长期的就是我们每年会去检讨它的电力需求是多少所以像NVIDIA这种它的用电不会突然产生的它一定是在它几年前规划盖厂的时候我们就会要求它提出来那获得核准就但是你只看到NVIDIA但是跟着NVIDIA相关的对不对整个供应链的或者是其他的共同需求\n\n14\n00:05:04,548 --> 00:05:29,524\n因為所有比較大型的蓋的廠通常蓋的廠大概都有兩年到三年那通常他要蓋這個廠之前他會有一個計劃那我們就會掌握所以就是說會把他算在如果已經核准他這個計劃我們就會把他算在裡面你們就會把他算在用電需求裡面那目前用電需求就是用電供應有沒有問題王總跟委員報告整個\n\n15\n00:05:33,925 --> 00:05:57,770\n就是未来的这个AI产业所造成的对电力系统的冲击这个部分我们其实是随时都跟这些业者在联络知道说他们未来的需求在哪里然后会布在哪里但是我们也会跟他们说怎么去安排比如说以做AIDC的那个资料中心来讲我们就会跟他们讲我们的电厂我们的\n\n16\n00:05:58,630 --> 00:06:20,977\n变电锁会盖在什么地方那它盖在什么地方比较适合所以我们会做互相的这个界界来让这个部分的用电能够很顺畅这是在应用端至于生产端的部分大概就是伺服器的生产这个部分它的生产用电跟平常的伺服器的生产用电是差不多的所以这个是没有影响的至于某些比较大的那个\n\n17\n00:06:21,457 --> 00:06:41,179\n半導體的製造的公司的生產用電也都是長期在觀察同時在互相接觸然後預知什麼時候會用電所以我們都有做長期的規劃跟分析因為這個東西我們現在正在進行的除了就是AI的建設以外我們還要將AI導入我們不同的方面\n\n18\n00:06:42,200 --> 00:07:09,636\n當然還有在生產製造啦整個不管是教育啦觀光或什麼都要在導入這個AI的過程當中那你前端的那個作業沒有做好的情況下那我們後端就沒有辦法進行喔那就這個部分喔希望說台電能源署以及經濟部喔就這個整體的用電需求以及未來的這樣子的調配的問題能夠緊述的處理可以嗎\n\n19\n00:07:10,756 --> 00:07:37,406\n謝謝委員指導因為這一題對台電而言是很嚴肅的一個問題所以我們會慎重看待而且會謹慎把它處理好目前也朝這方面在進行當中可是我們也擔心會缺電你知道嗎我們都有提前準備我們也擔心會缺電所以對於就是說這種供電瓶頸會不會產生現在是冬天了夏天的時候用電通常都是用電需求的高峰\n\n20\n00:07:39,287 --> 00:07:57,477\n那當然了現在是冬天問你這個問題一般的民眾或者大家都不會在意可是等到了在明年再來做這樣子相關的檢討的時候我們必須要知道的是你供電的瓶頸在哪裡啊你現在都說沒問題啊結果咧明年如果跳電的時候咧\n\n21\n00:07:58,820 --> 00:08:19,968\n跟委員報告他的可能會遇到瓶頸式電源端就是電廠的建設來得及來不及這個我們都提前在規劃了至於說他的輸電線的瓶頸的部分我們就如剛才跟委員報告的我們會引導他在變電所的周邊就直接蓋所以當我們要蓋他們要蓋那個\n\n22\n00:08:21,567 --> 00:08:48,272\n应用中心的时候我们就就近从变电锁拉过去所以那个距离都很短所以在瓶颈方面都可以锈地克服跟解决所以NVIDIA没有办法盖来这样化的原因就是因为变电锁不是它可能是两个地方一个是办公室一个是用电的资料中心这两个是可以分开的中间的讯号都是用透过光纤所以是没有问题的好谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9865\t34535\t谢谢主席我想要请龚部长还有李书长龚部长还有书长李书长部长早谢文好我想请问一下就是说我们三大国际的公有云业者像MLM然后GoogleMicrosoft都在全台湾设立这样子或者是已经设立了\n34935\t60197\t那还要扩大我们区域的资料中心那代表了下一个世代我们台湾会进入了这样子多云竞争的这个局面那我想要请问一下就是再加上你们所说的AI新十大建设你们要投入311亿的预算\n60737\t87674\t那對於未來AI以及相關這樣子的多元競爭的總電力需求我想要請問一下你們有沒有做重新的評估還是你們維持了去年或者是就是過去你們所預估平均每年就是2.8%這樣子的一個年成長量或者是當然\n88234\t110868\t我們知道的你過去是平均2.8%那會不會這個平均會在前幾年有一種爆炸性的這樣子需求的增加而導致目前我們的電網有沒有辦法負荷這樣子相關的電力的增加呢有沒有辦法\n111628\t131223\t报告委员事实上我们电力上的需求跟供应每年都在滚动式的检讨那电力供需报告也会出报告那事实上您刚才提到比较大型的业者他们如果要设立Data Center也好或是什么事实上他都要跟我们联合署跟台电公司来先说明\n132183\t158915\t有電他才有辦法去做這個事情就是說包括工業區的開發業或是什麼他們必須要讓我們知道就是說他們可能需要的電力需求多少我們要去預作一些準備那所以根本報告就是過去到至少到2032年之前他們的比較重要的這些這個設施將來可能要運作的部分我們大概都已經有掌握了那也做了一些因應的處置\n159956\t168825\t更詳細的是不是請署長那請署長說一下這個我們都納入估計那我們怎麼估計有三個來源第一個就是他做環評的時候\n170205\t193176\t那么我们就知道他这个电厂送还品的他大概需要多少用电量第二个就是说他在真正建厂前大概三年以前他就要跟台电公司申请供电那另外一个资料我们是来自于我们的产发署那他会掌握这些企业比较长期的脉动那我们就是把这个三个资料加在一起互相比对\n193556\t199770\t那我們每年會滾動檢討檢討完我們會出電力供需報告大概每年我們都會這樣子滾動再檢討所以會隨著它的實際的狀況\n204161\t233468\t我們每年都會來調這個數字好 那理能源署也提到了你們要做三個即時的建設就是新機組電網變電所的變更還有儲能還有以及我們所有目前的新建的所有發電的機組還有電網升級那我想要請問你們這樣子即時的就是建設你們現在目前進度如何\n234068\t251200\t那你說了要跟業界就是說這些用電的新的需求NVIDIA還沒來喔那等到它來的時候那未來你們要怎麼樣子有一個及時的這樣子一個調配的中心嗎\n251960\t273231\t就是關於就是電力的需求的即時的調配中心嗎那未來因應整個AI建設的需求的時候你才有辦法有一個調配的中心嘛你沒有調配的中心的時候這樣用電需求如果突然有爆炸性的成長的時候你怎麼樣子做那你怎麼樣子去協調\n274881\t304188\t是 报告这个电力的调配那就分为长期的跟及时短期的长期的就是我们每年会去检讨它的电力需求是多少所以像NVIDIA这种它的用电不会突然产生的它一定是在它几年前规划盖厂的时候我们就会要求它提出来那获得核准就但是你只看到NVIDIA但是跟着NVIDIA相关的对不对整个供应链的或者是其他的共同需求\n304548\t329524\t因為所有比較大型的蓋的廠通常蓋的廠大概都有兩年到三年那通常他要蓋這個廠之前他會有一個計劃那我們就會掌握所以就是說會把他算在如果已經核准他這個計劃我們就會把他算在裡面你們就會把他算在用電需求裡面那目前用電需求就是用電供應有沒有問題王總跟委員報告整個\n333925\t357770\t就是未来的这个AI产业所造成的对电力系统的冲击这个部分我们其实是随时都跟这些业者在联络知道说他们未来的需求在哪里然后会布在哪里但是我们也会跟他们说怎么去安排比如说以做AIDC的那个资料中心来讲我们就会跟他们讲我们的电厂我们的\n358630\t380977\t变电锁会盖在什么地方那它盖在什么地方比较适合所以我们会做互相的这个界界来让这个部分的用电能够很顺畅这是在应用端至于生产端的部分大概就是伺服器的生产这个部分它的生产用电跟平常的伺服器的生产用电是差不多的所以这个是没有影响的至于某些比较大的那个\n381457\t401179\t半導體的製造的公司的生產用電也都是長期在觀察同時在互相接觸然後預知什麼時候會用電所以我們都有做長期的規劃跟分析因為這個東西我們現在正在進行的除了就是AI的建設以外我們還要將AI導入我們不同的方面\n402200\t429636\t當然還有在生產製造啦整個不管是教育啦觀光或什麼都要在導入這個AI的過程當中那你前端的那個作業沒有做好的情況下那我們後端就沒有辦法進行喔那就這個部分喔希望說台電能源署以及經濟部喔就這個整體的用電需求以及未來的這樣子的調配的問題能夠緊述的處理可以嗎\n430756\t457406\t謝謝委員指導因為這一題對台電而言是很嚴肅的一個問題所以我們會慎重看待而且會謹慎把它處理好目前也朝這方面在進行當中可是我們也擔心會缺電你知道嗎我們都有提前準備我們也擔心會缺電所以對於就是說這種供電瓶頸會不會產生現在是冬天了夏天的時候用電通常都是用電需求的高峰\n459287\t477477\t那當然了現在是冬天問你這個問題一般的民眾或者大家都不會在意可是等到了在明年再來做這樣子相關的檢討的時候我們必須要知道的是你供電的瓶頸在哪裡啊你現在都說沒問題啊結果咧 明年如果跳電的時候咧\n478820\t499968\t跟委員報告他的可能會遇到瓶頸式電源端就是電廠的建設來得及來不及這個我們都提前在規劃了至於說他的輸電線的瓶頸的部分我們就如剛才跟委員報告的我們會引導他在變電所的周邊就直接蓋所以當我們要蓋他們要蓋那個\n501567\t528272\t应用中心的时候我们就就近从变电锁拉过去所以那个距离都很短所以在瓶颈方面都可以锈地克服跟解决所以NVIDIA没有办法盖来这样化的原因就是因为变电锁不是它可能是两个地方一个是办公室一个是用电的资料中心这两个是可以分开的中间的讯号都是用透过光纤所以是没有问题的好谢谢\n","txt":"谢谢主席我想要请龚部长还有李书长龚部长还有书长李书长部长早谢文好我想请问一下就是说我们三大国际的公有云业者像MLM然后GoogleMicrosoft都在全台湾设立这样子或者是已经设立了\n那还要扩大我们区域的资料中心那代表了下一个世代我们台湾会进入了这样子多云竞争的这个局面那我想要请问一下就是再加上你们所说的AI新十大建设你们要投入311亿的预算\n那對於未來AI以及相關這樣子的多元競爭的總電力需求我想要請問一下你們有沒有做重新的評估還是你們維持了去年或者是就是過去你們所預估平均每年就是2.8%這樣子的一個年成長量或者是當然\n我們知道的你過去是平均2.8%那會不會這個平均會在前幾年有一種爆炸性的這樣子需求的增加而導致目前我們的電網有沒有辦法負荷這樣子相關的電力的增加呢有沒有辦法\n报告委员事实上我们电力上的需求跟供应每年都在滚动式的检讨那电力供需报告也会出报告那事实上您刚才提到比较大型的业者他们如果要设立Data Center也好或是什么事实上他都要跟我们联合署跟台电公司来先说明\n有電他才有辦法去做這個事情就是說包括工業區的開發業或是什麼他們必須要讓我們知道就是說他們可能需要的電力需求多少我們要去預作一些準備那所以根本報告就是過去到至少到2032年之前他們的比較重要的這些這個設施將來可能要運作的部分我們大概都已經有掌握了那也做了一些因應的處置\n更詳細的是不是請署長那請署長說一下這個我們都納入估計那我們怎麼估計有三個來源第一個就是他做環評的時候\n那么我们就知道他这个电厂送还品的他大概需要多少用电量第二个就是说他在真正建厂前大概三年以前他就要跟台电公司申请供电那另外一个资料我们是来自于我们的产发署那他会掌握这些企业比较长期的脉动那我们就是把这个三个资料加在一起互相比对\n那我們每年會滾動檢討檢討完我們會出電力供需報告大概每年我們都會這樣子滾動再檢討所以會隨著它的實際的狀況\n我們每年都會來調這個數字好 那理能源署也提到了你們要做三個即時的建設就是新機組電網變電所的變更還有儲能還有以及我們所有目前的新建的所有發電的機組還有電網升級那我想要請問你們這樣子即時的就是建設你們現在目前進度如何\n那你說了要跟業界就是說這些用電的新的需求NVIDIA還沒來喔那等到它來的時候那未來你們要怎麼樣子有一個及時的這樣子一個調配的中心嗎\n就是關於就是電力的需求的即時的調配中心嗎那未來因應整個AI建設的需求的時候你才有辦法有一個調配的中心嘛你沒有調配的中心的時候這樣用電需求如果突然有爆炸性的成長的時候你怎麼樣子做那你怎麼樣子去協調\n是 报告这个电力的调配那就分为长期的跟及时短期的长期的就是我们每年会去检讨它的电力需求是多少所以像NVIDIA这种它的用电不会突然产生的它一定是在它几年前规划盖厂的时候我们就会要求它提出来那获得核准就但是你只看到NVIDIA但是跟着NVIDIA相关的对不对整个供应链的或者是其他的共同需求\n因為所有比較大型的蓋的廠通常蓋的廠大概都有兩年到三年那通常他要蓋這個廠之前他會有一個計劃那我們就會掌握所以就是說會把他算在如果已經核准他這個計劃我們就會把他算在裡面你們就會把他算在用電需求裡面那目前用電需求就是用電供應有沒有問題王總跟委員報告整個\n就是未来的这个AI产业所造成的对电力系统的冲击这个部分我们其实是随时都跟这些业者在联络知道说他们未来的需求在哪里然后会布在哪里但是我们也会跟他们说怎么去安排比如说以做AIDC的那个资料中心来讲我们就会跟他们讲我们的电厂我们的\n变电锁会盖在什么地方那它盖在什么地方比较适合所以我们会做互相的这个界界来让这个部分的用电能够很顺畅这是在应用端至于生产端的部分大概就是伺服器的生产这个部分它的生产用电跟平常的伺服器的生产用电是差不多的所以这个是没有影响的至于某些比较大的那个\n半導體的製造的公司的生產用電也都是長期在觀察同時在互相接觸然後預知什麼時候會用電所以我們都有做長期的規劃跟分析因為這個東西我們現在正在進行的除了就是AI的建設以外我們還要將AI導入我們不同的方面\n當然還有在生產製造啦整個不管是教育啦觀光或什麼都要在導入這個AI的過程當中那你前端的那個作業沒有做好的情況下那我們後端就沒有辦法進行喔那就這個部分喔希望說台電能源署以及經濟部喔就這個整體的用電需求以及未來的這樣子的調配的問題能夠緊述的處理可以嗎\n謝謝委員指導因為這一題對台電而言是很嚴肅的一個問題所以我們會慎重看待而且會謹慎把它處理好目前也朝這方面在進行當中可是我們也擔心會缺電你知道嗎我們都有提前準備我們也擔心會缺電所以對於就是說這種供電瓶頸會不會產生現在是冬天了夏天的時候用電通常都是用電需求的高峰\n那當然了現在是冬天問你這個問題一般的民眾或者大家都不會在意可是等到了在明年再來做這樣子相關的檢討的時候我們必須要知道的是你供電的瓶頸在哪裡啊你現在都說沒問題啊結果咧 明年如果跳電的時候咧\n跟委員報告他的可能會遇到瓶頸式電源端就是電廠的建設來得及來不及這個我們都提前在規劃了至於說他的輸電線的瓶頸的部分我們就如剛才跟委員報告的我們會引導他在變電所的周邊就直接蓋所以當我們要蓋他們要蓋那個\n应用中心的时候我们就就近从变电锁拉过去所以那个距离都很短所以在瓶颈方面都可以锈地克服跟解决所以NVIDIA没有办法盖来这样化的原因就是因为变电锁不是它可能是两个地方一个是办公室一个是用电的资料中心这两个是可以分开的中间的讯号都是用透过光纤所以是没有问题的好谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.865 --> 00:34.535\n谢谢主席我想要请龚部长还有李书长龚部长还有书长李书长部长早谢文好我想请问一下就是说我们三大国际的公有云业者像MLM然后GoogleMicrosoft都在全台湾设立这样子或者是已经设立了\n\n00:34.935 --> 01:00.197\n那还要扩大我们区域的资料中心那代表了下一个世代我们台湾会进入了这样子多云竞争的这个局面那我想要请问一下就是再加上你们所说的AI新十大建设你们要投入311亿的预算\n\n01:00.737 --> 01:27.674\n那對於未來AI以及相關這樣子的多元競爭的總電力需求我想要請問一下你們有沒有做重新的評估還是你們維持了去年或者是就是過去你們所預估平均每年就是2.8%這樣子的一個年成長量或者是當然\n\n01:28.234 --> 01:50.868\n我們知道的你過去是平均2.8%那會不會這個平均會在前幾年有一種爆炸性的這樣子需求的增加而導致目前我們的電網有沒有辦法負荷這樣子相關的電力的增加呢有沒有辦法\n\n01:51.628 --> 02:11.223\n报告委员事实上我们电力上的需求跟供应每年都在滚动式的检讨那电力供需报告也会出报告那事实上您刚才提到比较大型的业者他们如果要设立DataCenter也好或是什么事实上他都要跟我们联合署跟台电公司来先说明\n\n02:12.183 --> 02:38.915\n有電他才有辦法去做這個事情就是說包括工業區的開發業或是什麼他們必須要讓我們知道就是說他們可能需要的電力需求多少我們要去預作一些準備那所以根本報告就是過去到至少到2032年之前他們的比較重要的這些這個設施將來可能要運作的部分我們大概都已經有掌握了那也做了一些因應的處置\n\n02:39.956 --> 02:48.825\n更詳細的是不是請署長那請署長說一下這個我們都納入估計那我們怎麼估計有三個來源第一個就是他做環評的時候\n\n02:50.205 --> 03:13.176\n那么我们就知道他这个电厂送还品的他大概需要多少用电量第二个就是说他在真正建厂前大概三年以前他就要跟台电公司申请供电那另外一个资料我们是来自于我们的产发署那他会掌握这些企业比较长期的脉动那我们就是把这个三个资料加在一起互相比对\n\n03:13.556 --> 03:19.770\n那我們每年會滾動檢討檢討完我們會出電力供需報告大概每年我們都會這樣子滾動再檢討所以會隨著它的實際的狀況\n\n03:24.161 --> 03:53.468\n我們每年都會來調這個數字好那理能源署也提到了你們要做三個即時的建設就是新機組電網變電所的變更還有儲能還有以及我們所有目前的新建的所有發電的機組還有電網升級那我想要請問你們這樣子即時的就是建設你們現在目前進度如何\n\n03:54.068 --> 04:11.200\n那你說了要跟業界就是說這些用電的新的需求NVIDIA還沒來喔那等到它來的時候那未來你們要怎麼樣子有一個及時的這樣子一個調配的中心嗎\n\n04:11.960 --> 04:33.231\n就是關於就是電力的需求的即時的調配中心嗎那未來因應整個AI建設的需求的時候你才有辦法有一個調配的中心嘛你沒有調配的中心的時候這樣用電需求如果突然有爆炸性的成長的時候你怎麼樣子做那你怎麼樣子去協調\n\n04:34.881 --> 05:04.188\n是报告这个电力的调配那就分为长期的跟及时短期的长期的就是我们每年会去检讨它的电力需求是多少所以像NVIDIA这种它的用电不会突然产生的它一定是在它几年前规划盖厂的时候我们就会要求它提出来那获得核准就但是你只看到NVIDIA但是跟着NVIDIA相关的对不对整个供应链的或者是其他的共同需求\n\n05:04.548 --> 05:29.524\n因為所有比較大型的蓋的廠通常蓋的廠大概都有兩年到三年那通常他要蓋這個廠之前他會有一個計劃那我們就會掌握所以就是說會把他算在如果已經核准他這個計劃我們就會把他算在裡面你們就會把他算在用電需求裡面那目前用電需求就是用電供應有沒有問題王總跟委員報告整個\n\n05:33.925 --> 05:57.770\n就是未来的这个AI产业所造成的对电力系统的冲击这个部分我们其实是随时都跟这些业者在联络知道说他们未来的需求在哪里然后会布在哪里但是我们也会跟他们说怎么去安排比如说以做AIDC的那个资料中心来讲我们就会跟他们讲我们的电厂我们的\n\n05:58.630 --> 06:20.977\n变电锁会盖在什么地方那它盖在什么地方比较适合所以我们会做互相的这个界界来让这个部分的用电能够很顺畅这是在应用端至于生产端的部分大概就是伺服器的生产这个部分它的生产用电跟平常的伺服器的生产用电是差不多的所以这个是没有影响的至于某些比较大的那个\n\n06:21.457 --> 06:41.179\n半導體的製造的公司的生產用電也都是長期在觀察同時在互相接觸然後預知什麼時候會用電所以我們都有做長期的規劃跟分析因為這個東西我們現在正在進行的除了就是AI的建設以外我們還要將AI導入我們不同的方面\n\n06:42.200 --> 07:09.636\n當然還有在生產製造啦整個不管是教育啦觀光或什麼都要在導入這個AI的過程當中那你前端的那個作業沒有做好的情況下那我們後端就沒有辦法進行喔那就這個部分喔希望說台電能源署以及經濟部喔就這個整體的用電需求以及未來的這樣子的調配的問題能夠緊述的處理可以嗎\n\n07:10.756 --> 07:37.406\n謝謝委員指導因為這一題對台電而言是很嚴肅的一個問題所以我們會慎重看待而且會謹慎把它處理好目前也朝這方面在進行當中可是我們也擔心會缺電你知道嗎我們都有提前準備我們也擔心會缺電所以對於就是說這種供電瓶頸會不會產生現在是冬天了夏天的時候用電通常都是用電需求的高峰\n\n07:39.287 --> 07:57.477\n那當然了現在是冬天問你這個問題一般的民眾或者大家都不會在意可是等到了在明年再來做這樣子相關的檢討的時候我們必須要知道的是你供電的瓶頸在哪裡啊你現在都說沒問題啊結果咧明年如果跳電的時候咧\n\n07:58.820 --> 08:19.968\n跟委員報告他的可能會遇到瓶頸式電源端就是電廠的建設來得及來不及這個我們都提前在規劃了至於說他的輸電線的瓶頸的部分我們就如剛才跟委員報告的我們會引導他在變電所的周邊就直接蓋所以當我們要蓋他們要蓋那個\n\n08:21.567 --> 08:48.272\n应用中心的时候我们就就近从变电锁拉过去所以那个距离都很短所以在瓶颈方面都可以锈地克服跟解决所以NVIDIA没有办法盖来这样化的原因就是因为变电锁不是它可能是两个地方一个是办公室一个是用电的资料中心这两个是可以分开的中间的讯号都是用透过光纤所以是没有问题的好谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.865,"end":34.535,"text":"谢谢主席我想要请龚部长还有李书长龚部长还有书长李书长部长早谢文好我想请问一下就是说我们三大国际的公有云业者像MLM然后GoogleMicrosoft都在全台湾设立这样子或者是已经设立了"},{"start":34.935,"end":60.197,"text":"那还要扩大我们区域的资料中心那代表了下一个世代我们台湾会进入了这样子多云竞争的这个局面那我想要请问一下就是再加上你们所说的AI新十大建设你们要投入311亿的预算"},{"start":60.737,"end":87.674,"text":"那對於未來AI以及相關這樣子的多元競爭的總電力需求我想要請問一下你們有沒有做重新的評估還是你們維持了去年或者是就是過去你們所預估平均每年就是2.8%這樣子的一個年成長量或者是當然"},{"start":88.234,"end":110.868,"text":"我們知道的你過去是平均2.8%那會不會這個平均會在前幾年有一種爆炸性的這樣子需求的增加而導致目前我們的電網有沒有辦法負荷這樣子相關的電力的增加呢有沒有辦法"},{"start":111.628,"end":131.223,"text":"报告委员事实上我们电力上的需求跟供应每年都在滚动式的检讨那电力供需报告也会出报告那事实上您刚才提到比较大型的业者他们如果要设立Data 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报告这个电力的调配那就分为长期的跟及时短期的长期的就是我们每年会去检讨它的电力需求是多少所以像NVIDIA这种它的用电不会突然产生的它一定是在它几年前规划盖厂的时候我们就会要求它提出来那获得核准就但是你只看到NVIDIA但是跟着NVIDIA相关的对不对整个供应链的或者是其他的共同需求"},{"start":304.548,"end":329.524,"text":"因為所有比較大型的蓋的廠通常蓋的廠大概都有兩年到三年那通常他要蓋這個廠之前他會有一個計劃那我們就會掌握所以就是說會把他算在如果已經核准他這個計劃我們就會把他算在裡面你們就會把他算在用電需求裡面那目前用電需求就是用電供應有沒有問題王總跟委員報告整個"},{"start":333.925,"end":357.77,"text":"就是未来的这个AI产业所造成的对电力系统的冲击这个部分我们其实是随时都跟这些业者在联络知道说他们未来的需求在哪里然后会布在哪里但是我们也会跟他们说怎么去安排比如说以做AIDC的那个资料中心来讲我们就会跟他们讲我们的电厂我们的"},{"start":358.63,"end":380.977,"text":"变电锁会盖在什么地方那它盖在什么地方比较适合所以我们会做互相的这个界界来让这个部分的用电能够很顺畅这是在应用端至于生产端的部分大概就是伺服器的生产这个部分它的生产用电跟平常的伺服器的生产用电是差不多的所以这个是没有影响的至于某些比较大的那个"},{"start":381.457,"end":401.179,"text":"半導體的製造的公司的生產用電也都是長期在觀察同時在互相接觸然後預知什麼時候會用電所以我們都有做長期的規劃跟分析因為這個東西我們現在正在進行的除了就是AI的建設以外我們還要將AI導入我們不同的方面"},{"start":402.2,"end":429.636,"text":"當然還有在生產製造啦整個不管是教育啦觀光或什麼都要在導入這個AI的過程當中那你前端的那個作業沒有做好的情況下那我們後端就沒有辦法進行喔那就這個部分喔希望說台電能源署以及經濟部喔就這個整體的用電需求以及未來的這樣子的調配的問題能夠緊述的處理可以嗎"},{"start":430.756,"end":457.406,"text":"謝謝委員指導因為這一題對台電而言是很嚴肅的一個問題所以我們會慎重看待而且會謹慎把它處理好目前也朝這方面在進行當中可是我們也擔心會缺電你知道嗎我們都有提前準備我們也擔心會缺電所以對於就是說這種供電瓶頸會不會產生現在是冬天了夏天的時候用電通常都是用電需求的高峰"},{"start":459.287,"end":477.477,"text":"那當然了現在是冬天問你這個問題一般的民眾或者大家都不會在意可是等到了在明年再來做這樣子相關的檢討的時候我們必須要知道的是你供電的瓶頸在哪裡啊你現在都說沒問題啊結果咧 明年如果跳電的時候咧"},{"start":478.82,"end":499.968,"text":"跟委員報告他的可能會遇到瓶頸式電源端就是電廠的建設來得及來不及這個我們都提前在規劃了至於說他的輸電線的瓶頸的部分我們就如剛才跟委員報告的我們會引導他在變電所的周邊就直接蓋所以當我們要蓋他們要蓋那個"},{"start":501.567,"end":528.272,"text":"应用中心的时候我们就就近从变电锁拉过去所以那个距离都很短所以在瓶颈方面都可以锈地克服跟解决所以NVIDIA没有办法盖来这样化的原因就是因为变电锁不是它可能是两个地方一个是办公室一个是用电的资料中心这两个是可以分开的中间的讯号都是用透过光纤所以是没有问题的好谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":584,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（10時39分）謝謝主席，我想要請龔部長還有李署長。"],["主席：我們請龔部長還有李署長。"],["謝委員衣鳯：部長早。"],["龔部長明鑫：謝委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：三大國際的公有雲業者像Amazon、Google、Microsoft都在全臺灣設立或是已經設立，並且要擴大我們區域的資料中心，代表了下一個世代我們臺灣會進入多雲競爭的局面。我想要請問一下，加上你們所說的AI新十大建設，你們要投入311億的預算，對於未來AI以及相關多雲競爭的總電力需求，你們有沒有做重新的評估？還是你們維持去年或是過去你們所預估平均每年就是2.8%的年成長量？當然我們知道，過去平均是2.8%，會不會這個平均在前幾年有爆炸性的需求增加，目前我們的電網有沒有辦法負荷這樣的相關電力增加呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，事實上我們的電力需求跟供應每年都在滾動式檢討，電力供需報告也會出報告，至於您剛剛提到比較大型的業者，他們如果要設立data center也好或是什麼，都要先跟我們的能源署及台電公司來說明，有電它才有辦法去做這個事情，包括工業區的開發也好或是什麼，他們必須要讓我們知道可能的電力需求是多少，我們要預做一些準備。所以跟委員報告，至少到2032年之前，將來他們比較重要的設施要運作的部分，我們大概都已經有掌握了，也做了一些因應的處置，更詳細的細節是不是請署長說明？"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，請署長說一下。"],["李署長君禮：報告委員，這個我們都納入估計，至於我們怎麼估計？有三個來源：第一個，就是做環評時我們就知道這個電廠送環評了，大概需要多少用電量；第二個，在真正建廠前，大概三年以前，就要跟台電公司申請供電；另外一個，我們的資料來自產發署，而產發署會掌握企業比較長期的脈動。我們把這三個資料加在一起互相比對，同時每年滾動檢討，檢討完會提出電力供需報告，我們每年大概都會做這樣子的滾動檢討，並隨著實際狀況每年調整數字。"],["謝委員衣鳯：能源署也提到要做三個即時建設，也就是新機組、電網、變電所的變更、儲能，以及目前所有新建的發電機組與電網升級。我想請問，所謂的即時建設目前進度如何？你說了會配合業界新的用電需求，可是NVIDIA還沒來，等到它來的時候，未來你們要如何有一個即時的調配中心，也就是關於電力需求的即時調配中心？如此，未來在因應整個AI建設需求時，才有辦法有一個調配中心。如果沒有調配中心的話，一旦用電需求突然有爆炸性的成長，你該怎麼做？又要怎麼協調？"],["李署長君禮：報告，電力的調配分為長期的與即時、短期的。長期的，我們每年會檢討其電力需求是多少，所以像NVIDIA的用電並不會突然產生，一定是在幾年前規劃蓋廠時，我們就會要求它提出來，獲得核准之後……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你只看到NVIDIA，與NVIDIA相關的呢？對不對？譬如各供應鏈的或其他的共同需求？"],["龔部長明鑫：所有比較大型蓋的廠，通常都要兩年到三年。通常在蓋這個廠之前會有一個計畫，我們就會掌握，所以會把它算在……如果已經核准這個計畫的話，我們就會把它算在裡面。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們就會把它算在用電需求裡？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：目前的用電供應有沒有問題？請教王總。"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，有關未來AI產業對電力系統所造成的衝擊這部分，我們其實隨時都跟業者在聯絡，好知道他們未來的需求在哪裡、會布在哪裡。但我們也會跟他們說怎麼去安排，譬如以AI的DC（資料中心）來講，我們就會跟他們講，我們的電廠、變電所會蓋在什麼地方，而它蓋在什麼地方比較適合，所以我們會做互相的介接，讓這部分的用電能夠很順暢，這是在應用端。至於生產端的部分，大概就是伺服器的生產，其生產用電跟平常伺服器的用電是差不多的，因此沒有影響。不過某些比較大的半導體製造公司的生產用電，我們也都長期在觀察，同時也互相接觸，預知什麼時候會用電。所以我們都有做長期的規劃與分析。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們現在正在進行的，除了AI建設以外，還要將AI導入不同的面向，包括生產製造，不管教育、觀光或什麼的都要導入AI，一旦前端的作業沒有做好的情況下，後端就沒有辦法進行。就這部分來說，希望台電、能源署以及經濟部，能就整體用電需求與未來的調配問題儘速處理，可以嗎？"],["王總經理耀庭：謝謝委員指導，因為這題對台電而言是很嚴肅的一個問題，所以我們會慎重看待，而且會謹慎處理好，目前也朝這方向在進行當中。"],["謝委員衣鳯：可是我們也擔心會缺電，你知道嗎？"],["王總經理耀庭：我們都有提前準備。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們也擔心會缺電……"],["王總經理耀庭：有提前準備。"],["謝委員衣鳯：會不會產生供電瓶頸？現在是冬天，而夏天通常是用電需求高峰。現在是冬天，所以問你這個問題，一般民眾、大家都不會在意，可是等到明年再來做相關檢討時，我們就必須知道供電的瓶頸在哪裡？你現在都說沒問題，但如果明年跳電的話呢？"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，可能會遇到的瓶頸是電源端，即電廠的建設來不來得及，所以我們都提前在規劃了。至於輸電線的瓶頸部分，誠如剛才跟委員報告的，我們會引導它在變電所的周邊直接蓋。因此，當他們要蓋應用中心時，我們可以就近從變電所拉過去，距離很短，所謂的瓶頸也可以就地克服並解決。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以NVIDIA沒有來彰化蓋的原因，就是因為變電所？"],["王總經理耀庭：不是、不是，這可能有兩個地方：一個是辦公室，一個是用電的資料中心，這兩個是可以分開的，中間的訊號都透過光纖，所以是沒有問題的。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝謝衣鳯的質詢，謝謝部長及總經理等相關單位。","我們現在請賴瑞隆委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-8","speakers":["陳亭妃","羅美玲","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","呂玉玲","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","賴士葆","葉元之","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","鄭正鈐","黃捷","張嘉郡","林楚茵","陳超明"],"page_start":333,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員王美\n惠等20人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人擬具「電\n業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具\n「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「電業法第七十一\n條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草\n案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院\n委員黃捷等22人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬\n具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「電業法第七十\n一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修\n正草案」案；二、審查： ( 一) 行政院函請審議「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員王美惠等20人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本\n院委員李坤城等18人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗\n華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本\n院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美\n玲等19人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬\n具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「天然氣事\n業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十\n五條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案；三、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委\n員王美惠等19人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人\n擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「自來\n水法第三條、第十六條之一及第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬\n具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「自來水法第\n九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案（合併詢答）","agenda_id":"1148901_00007"}}}