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00:00:38,881\n謝謝委員好我先請教謝部長主委在昨天有發了文又載有漁船來到我們擔心它對海卵造成影響而驅離那我問一下海巡署從今年以來類似象徵安全帶有多少艦最近5年從109到113年總共有40艦平均每年大概8艦今年到現在為止有5艦\n\n3\n00:00:47,927 --> 00:00:57,144\n今年五件對那五件包括宏泰包括盛興包括我們有漁船也有大陸漁船的我們都有含宋地檢數\n\n4\n00:00:58,503 --> 00:01:25,776\n這個都含送了是那像那個稻紗的部分呢稻紗的話111年還有扣留兩艘之後就沒有了之後112年是零星在澎湖跟馬祖零星一兩艘被我們驅離行經的換句話說112年到現在就沒有稻紗那跟委員報告因為111年非常多的尤其馬祖中國大陸\n\n5\n00:01:27,156 --> 00:01:54,088\n殺死船所以我們立法院非常感謝立法院也修正了土石管理法跟大陸教本及專屬經濟海報所以這個船舶不論是不是犯罪所有人都沒入所以這個有產生效用了有產生效用很好這個我也有參與到整個手提案我想這樣子我們就是要產生嚇阻力那也希望這次海欄七法也一樣有這樣的效益那我是不是也問一下國安局好不好我們的陳處長委員好\n\n6\n00:01:55,829 --> 00:02:05,080\n這一段時間就國安局的掌握我們的這些所謂的這樣的一些事件數量要不要那個陳處長也講一下報告委員有關\n\n7\n00:02:06,638 --> 00:02:30,485\n在我們海域做到的這些威脅的一個傳播的部分事實上我們在有關相關預警或者是海運署的一個即時應處基本上我們都是有一個運作的一個機制所以說在整個一發生的這一些的一些礦通常我們基本上我們第一時間就是有保持的一個通報跟應處這是我們目前在國安局有充分掌握這些狀況有包括有\n\n8\n00:02:31,545 --> 00:02:37,810\n那我問一下剛剛提到的包括副市長提到的這些斷纜的事件平均每年大概七到八件\n\n9\n00:02:40,873 --> 00:03:03,872\n剛剛有提到我們今年大概是有5件左右今年5件所以它的狀況跟往年是差不多的是差不多但是我們在強度方面事實上海巡在這一部分的應鎖都是第一時間就去做馬上的一個查詢包括有關雷達的回放這個我們都及時掌握那我來問兩位像這個\n\n10\n00:03:07,767 --> 00:03:33,822\n順興39的部分這樣的他的線路這樣子跑這是一個正常的狀況嗎委員巴委員因為這個要從個案事實認定我先講一下剛才委員指導的是1月3號那今年2月25號在台南外海我們當場扣留鴻泰58號他是多個級的那他是現在中華電信所有船舶有20公尺長\n\n11\n00:03:35,163 --> 00:03:53,577\n航速第五節在海南電纜左右一公里如果他有開AIS那我們有自動告急系統中華電信公司會自動傳給船上那這艘後船他也有海圖所以他知道海底電纜在哪裡他也有應該可以看到會告急他要趕快離開\n\n12\n00:03:55,618 --> 00:04:16,669\n所以如果我們認定他剛好跟我們海底電纜的路線是很像的時候我們就會依照他AIS的狀況我們會通報他了這個時候他會還中華電信電信組織機關會第一時間直接傳到船上請他趕快離開再不走的話會通知我們那我們會過去會超前部署然後我們雷達也可以看\n\n13\n00:04:17,409 --> 00:04:41,370\n那過去之後就這個案子就是我們下令他馬上起矛離開他看到我們下令起矛下令之後他就起矛當場就拉斷所以當場就拉斷掉了所以這個已經這已經等於發生了嘛所以未來如果我們在我們的修法更強化的話我們就有更強的一個公權力是為什麼呢跟委員報告這個這次七法最重要的原因就是第一個嚴刑重罰\n\n14\n00:04:42,699 --> 00:05:10,937\n除了故意犯以外如果涉及到國家安全跟社會安定的話甚至可以到十年以下有期徒刑罰金是照五千萬就是我們過失也處理是然後另外如果你又涉及到故意的話有十年以下的這個等於是一個重判涉及到國家安全然後船舶不問犯罪人所有比照土石採取直接沒入嗎直接沒入最重要第二點就是我們可以源頭管理那很多船舶東北季風都在我們外海滯留\n\n15\n00:05:12,618 --> 00:05:35,115\n他可能是要等整補可能是要等載貨不管怎樣他就要降低成本在我們外海滯留那我們驅離之後我們要法格法驅而復返那現在這個企劃中交通部航港局有修正川普法8961他可以處罰三萬以上一千萬以下划完這行政法只要他不出去他沒有正常使用AS就可以處罰\n\n16\n00:05:35,976 --> 00:05:54,134\n第三個最重要就是可以我們精準司法因為要求他要開AS若不開的話這個我們會處罰還有最重要最重要如果在滯留我們驅離他又互返我們現在跟航空局有共識也公告了20小時內驅離兩次的話以後就禁止他入港\n\n17\n00:05:54,514 --> 00:06:11,673\n所以這些都是很重要的政策因為你用AIS我們就可以定位出它的位置在哪邊那你的位置的移動如果是跟我們的電纜是密切相關的我合理懷疑你就是要來破壞我的電纜所以我就可以採取強硬的措施甚至我驅趕你你有任何其他的部分我甚至於未來讓你不能夠進到我的崗裡\n\n18\n00:06:12,293 --> 00:06:34,666\n換句話說可以降低大無的降低岸船系統就是我們現在所有的作為都是讓他們沒有降低掉他的那個啦因為當他要付出刑罰當他要付出很高的行政罰當他要甚至可能被扣留船隻的時候從過去那個倒採砂石的經驗我們就可以知道海砂的經驗知道當你用一些強硬的措施下去的時候他的利潤遠遠不及於他所可能\n\n19\n00:06:35,306 --> 00:06:50,613\n導致的損失的時候他就不會去做這個行為甚至要可能被扣留有刑法的問題他就更不會犯了所以我覺得這些都是在保護我們國家安全重要的我們希望朝野一起來支持那這個其實也不只是台灣我看到斯洛伐克的國防部長前幾天來也講到\n\n20\n00:06:51,874 --> 00:07:14,316\n海底電纜已經成為是一個看不見的戰爭特別是台灣周邊是台灣是海島啦周邊出去都是靠這些電纜的連結跟權勢的連結所以這更重要啦我們希望大家一起來盡快的完成這樣的修法啦一起來守護台灣的國家的安全啦謝謝委員我們全力支持啦再來我先請教一下經濟部長是不是也請教一下好不好\n\n21\n00:07:15,217 --> 00:07:22,269\n我們現在這個產業的部分我們的海欄的維修跟海欄的這些工有沒有相關的強化我們這個產業的一個空間\n\n22\n00:07:24,963 --> 00:07:44,724\n我們現在幾乎很多的海欄船大概都是其他國家所有的我們本身在這一塊其實並不強的我也希望未來進一步整理來思考讓我們自己的海欄的維修海欄的產業鏈是能夠更加的強化的這個也許跟交通部跟中華電信等等相關的可以做更多的討論好不好這請部長在省鎮來討論\n\n23\n00:07:45,725 --> 00:08:01,912\n好最後一點點時間我問一下這一次的高雄的就是非洲豬瘟台中非洲豬瘟跑到高雄去但是後來這個大榮的業者他包括說他只有小車才有GPS包括拖了一個半小時才說了大貨車位置包括甚至宣稱內容\n\n24\n00:08:03,653 --> 00:08:23,843\n等等還有包括甚至裡面的顯然在物流這一塊裡面是有問題的啦我也希望未來在這個管理的部分我希望經濟部跟交通部在研議啦對於特別現在越來越多這種物流倉儲的一些管理我希望能夠做更多一些強化不然他覺得我不交代\n\n25\n00:08:24,563 --> 00:08:40,206\n你也對我無可奈何我不去交代我到底有什麼東西去了哪裡顯然你無可奈何那這樣對於未來我們在防疫甚至很多重要的一些狀況的時候我們其實這個部分部長有沒有一些強化的一些措施這個部分我們跟交通部會\n\n26\n00:08:41,967 --> 00:09:09,113\n就像委員指導的我們會跟他們加強聯繫因為很多都是透過物流路上跑的是他們管那我們會把它結合起來單產業面上面我希望整體來讓這些納入到耕土管特別是現在我們看到家裡大榮甚至各界都懷疑他有港種資在掌握的那當這些我們的物流這些所有的是我們如果往不好的方向去思考的時候那當這些重要的物流都掌握在\n\n27\n00:09:09,873 --> 00:09:29,389\n不是我們可掌控的手裡的時候它另外也會形成另外一個國安上的一個盲點跟漏洞所以我還希望這一塊要確實用更強的一些去約束它就是一旦有狀況的時候它必須要如實地依照國家的一些要求去包括交出正確的資訊包括做出正確的一些處置\n\n28\n00:09:30,509 --> 00:09:55,114\n這一塊我希望國安局也整體要配合進來跟經濟部跟交通部一起來思考把這個要建立起來不然未來更多類似這樣的事件今天是豬肉非洲豬瘟未來其他事件的時候如果這些物流業者並不願意配合國家的一些整體的要求跟這個的話那有可能要形成另外一個漏洞好不好請部長再跟交通部跟國安局這邊再來研議好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7650\t15357\t好 謝謝召委我先請海巡署的謝副署長跟國安局的陳處長我們請謝副署長跟陳處長\n19990\t38881\t謝謝委員好我先請教謝部長主委在昨天有發了文又載有漁船來到我們擔心它對海卵造成影響而驅離那我問一下海巡署從今年以來類似象徵安全帶有多少艦最近5年從109到113年總共有40艦平均每年大概8艦今年到現在為止有5艦\n47927\t57144\t今年五件對 那五件包括宏泰包括盛興包括我們有漁船也有大陸漁船的我們都有含宋地檢數\n58503\t85776\t這個都含送了是那像那個稻紗的部分呢稻紗的話111年還有扣留兩艘之後就沒有了之後112年是零星在澎湖跟馬祖零星一兩艘被我們驅離 行經的換句話說112年到現在就沒有稻紗那跟委員報告因為111年非常多的尤其馬祖 中國大陸\n87156\t114088\t殺死船所以我們立法院 非常感謝立法院也修正了土石管理法跟大陸教本及專屬經濟海報所以這個船舶不論是不是犯罪所有人都沒入所以這個有產生效用了有產生效用很好 這個我也有參與到整個手提案我想這樣子我們就是要產生嚇阻力那也希望這次海欄七法也一樣有這樣的效益那我是不是也問一下國安局好不好我們的陳處長委員好\n115829\t125080\t這一段時間就國安局的掌握我們的這些所謂的這樣的一些事件數量要不要那個陳處長也講一下報告委員有關\n126638\t150485\t在我們海域做到的這些威脅的一個傳播的部分事實上我們在有關相關預警或者是海運署的一個即時應處基本上我們都是有一個運作的一個機制所以說在整個一發生的這一些的一些礦通常我們基本上我們第一時間就是有保持的一個通報跟應處這是我們目前在國安局有充分掌握這些狀況有 包括有\n151545\t157810\t那我問一下剛剛提到的包括副市長提到的這些斷纜的事件平均每年大概七到八件\n160873\t183872\t剛剛有提到我們今年大概是有5件左右今年5件所以它的狀況跟往年是差不多的是差不多但是我們在強度方面事實上海巡在這一部分的應鎖都是第一時間就去做馬上的一個查詢包括有關雷達的回放這個我們都及時掌握那我來問兩位像這個\n187767\t213822\t順興39的部分這樣的他的線路這樣子跑這是一個正常的狀況嗎委員 巴委員因為這個要從個案事實認定我先講一下剛才委員指導的是1月3號那今年2月25號在台南外海我們當場扣留鴻泰58號他是多個級的那他是現在中華電信所有船舶有20公尺長\n215163\t233577\t航速第五節在海南電纜左右一公里如果他有開AIS那我們有自動告急系統中華電信公司會自動傳給船上那這艘後船他也有海圖所以他知道海底電纜在哪裡他也有應該可以看到會告急他要趕快離開\n235618\t256669\t所以如果我們認定他剛好跟我們海底電纜的路線是很像的時候我們就會依照他AIS的狀況我們會通報他了這個時候他會還中華電信電信組織機關會第一時間直接傳到船上請他趕快離開再不走的話會通知我們那我們會過去會超前部署然後我們雷達也可以看\n257409\t281370\t那過去之後就這個案子就是我們下令他馬上起矛離開他看到我們下令起矛下令之後他就起矛當場就拉斷所以當場就拉斷掉了所以這個已經這已經等於發生了嘛所以未來如果我們在我們的修法更強化的話我們就有更強的一個公權力是 為什麼呢 跟委員報告這個這次七法最重要的原因就是第一個 嚴刑重罰\n282699\t310937\t除了故意犯以外如果涉及到國家安全跟社會安定的話甚至可以到十年以下有期徒刑罰金是照五千萬就是我們過失也處理是然後另外如果你又涉及到故意的話有十年以下的這個等於是一個重判涉及到國家安全然後船舶不問犯罪人所有比照土石採取直接沒入嗎直接沒入最重要第二點就是我們可以源頭管理那很多船舶東北季風都在我們外海滯留\n312618\t335115\t他可能是要等整補可能是要等載貨不管怎樣他就要降低成本在我們外海滯留那我們驅離之後我們要法格法 驅而復返那現在這個企劃中交通部 航港局有修正川普法8961他可以處罰三萬以上一千萬以下划完這行政法只要他不出去他沒有正常使用AS就可以處罰\n335976\t354134\t第三個最重要就是可以我們精準司法因為要求他要開AS若不開的話這個我們會處罰還有最重要最重要如果在滯留我們驅離他又互返我們現在跟航空局有共識也公告了20小時內驅離兩次的話以後就禁止他入港\n354514\t371673\t所以這些都是很重要的政策因為你用AIS我們就可以定位出它的位置在哪邊那你的位置的移動如果是跟我們的電纜是密切相關的我合理懷疑你就是要來破壞我的電纜所以我就可以採取強硬的措施甚至我驅趕你你有任何其他的部分我甚至於未來讓你不能夠進到我的崗裡\n372293\t394666\t換句話說可以降低大無的降低岸船系統就是我們現在所有的作為都是讓他們沒有降低掉他的那個啦因為當他要付出刑罰當他要付出很高的行政罰當他要甚至可能被扣留船隻的時候從過去那個倒採砂石的經驗我們就可以知道海砂的經驗知道當你用一些強硬的措施下去的時候他的利潤遠遠不及於他所可能\n395306\t410613\t導致的損失的時候他就不會去做這個行為甚至要可能被扣留有刑法的問題他就更不會犯了所以我覺得這些都是在保護我們國家安全重要的我們希望朝野一起來支持那這個其實也不只是台灣我看到斯洛伐克的國防部長前幾天來也講到\n411874\t434316\t海底電纜已經成為是一個看不見的戰爭特別是台灣周邊是台灣是海島啦周邊出去都是靠這些電纜的連結跟權勢的連結所以這更重要啦我們希望大家一起來盡快的完成這樣的修法啦一起來守護台灣的國家的安全啦謝謝委員我們全力支持啦再來我先請教一下經濟部長是不是也請教一下好不好\n435217\t442269\t我們現在這個產業的部分我們的海欄的維修跟海欄的這些工有沒有相關的強化我們這個產業的一個空間\n444963\t464724\t我們現在幾乎很多的海欄船大概都是其他國家所有的我們本身在這一塊其實並不強的我也希望未來進一步整理來思考讓我們自己的海欄的維修海欄的產業鏈是能夠更加的強化的這個也許跟交通部跟中華電信等等相關的可以做更多的討論好不好 這請部長在省鎮來討論\n465725\t481912\t好最後一點點時間我問一下這一次的高雄的就是非洲豬瘟台中非洲豬瘟跑到高雄去但是後來這個大榮的業者他包括說他只有小車才有GPS包括拖了一個半小時才說了大貨車位置包括甚至宣稱內容\n483653\t503843\t等等還有包括甚至裡面的顯然在物流這一塊裡面是有問題的啦我也希望未來在這個管理的部分我希望經濟部跟交通部在研議啦對於特別現在越來越多這種物流倉儲的一些管理我希望能夠做更多一些強化不然他覺得我不交代\n504563\t520206\t你也對我無可奈何我不去交代我到底有什麼東西 去了哪裡顯然你無可奈何那這樣對於未來我們在防疫甚至很多重要的一些狀況的時候我們其實這個部分部長有沒有一些強化的一些措施這個部分我們跟交通部會\n521967\t549113\t就像委員指導的我們會跟他們加強聯繫因為很多都是透過物流路上跑的是他們管那我們會把它結合起來單產業面上面我希望整體來讓這些納入到耕土管特別是現在我們看到家裡大榮甚至各界都懷疑他有港種資在掌握的那當這些我們的物流這些所有的是我們如果往不好的方向去思考的時候那當這些重要的物流都掌握在\n549873\t569389\t不是我們可掌控的手裡的時候它另外也會形成另外一個國安上的一個盲點跟漏洞所以我還希望這一塊要確實用更強的一些去約束它就是一旦有狀況的時候它必須要如實地依照國家的一些要求去包括交出正確的資訊包括做出正確的一些處置\n570509\t595114\t這一塊我希望國安局也整體要配合進來跟經濟部跟交通部一起來思考把這個要建立起來不然未來更多類似這樣的事件今天是豬肉非洲豬瘟 未來其他事件的時候如果這些物流業者並不願意配合國家的一些整體的要求跟這個的話那有可能要形成另外一個漏洞好不好請部長再跟交通部跟國安局這邊再來研議好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝召委我先請海巡署的謝副署長跟國安局的陳處長我們請謝副署長跟陳處長\n謝謝委員好我先請教謝部長主委在昨天有發了文又載有漁船來到我們擔心它對海卵造成影響而驅離那我問一下海巡署從今年以來類似象徵安全帶有多少艦最近5年從109到113年總共有40艦平均每年大概8艦今年到現在為止有5艦\n今年五件對 那五件包括宏泰包括盛興包括我們有漁船也有大陸漁船的我們都有含宋地檢數\n這個都含送了是那像那個稻紗的部分呢稻紗的話111年還有扣留兩艘之後就沒有了之後112年是零星在澎湖跟馬祖零星一兩艘被我們驅離 行經的換句話說112年到現在就沒有稻紗那跟委員報告因為111年非常多的尤其馬祖 中國大陸\n殺死船所以我們立法院 非常感謝立法院也修正了土石管理法跟大陸教本及專屬經濟海報所以這個船舶不論是不是犯罪所有人都沒入所以這個有產生效用了有產生效用很好 這個我也有參與到整個手提案我想這樣子我們就是要產生嚇阻力那也希望這次海欄七法也一樣有這樣的效益那我是不是也問一下國安局好不好我們的陳處長委員好\n這一段時間就國安局的掌握我們的這些所謂的這樣的一些事件數量要不要那個陳處長也講一下報告委員有關\n在我們海域做到的這些威脅的一個傳播的部分事實上我們在有關相關預警或者是海運署的一個即時應處基本上我們都是有一個運作的一個機制所以說在整個一發生的這一些的一些礦通常我們基本上我們第一時間就是有保持的一個通報跟應處這是我們目前在國安局有充分掌握這些狀況有 包括有\n那我問一下剛剛提到的包括副市長提到的這些斷纜的事件平均每年大概七到八件\n剛剛有提到我們今年大概是有5件左右今年5件所以它的狀況跟往年是差不多的是差不多但是我們在強度方面事實上海巡在這一部分的應鎖都是第一時間就去做馬上的一個查詢包括有關雷達的回放這個我們都及時掌握那我來問兩位像這個\n順興39的部分這樣的他的線路這樣子跑這是一個正常的狀況嗎委員 巴委員因為這個要從個案事實認定我先講一下剛才委員指導的是1月3號那今年2月25號在台南外海我們當場扣留鴻泰58號他是多個級的那他是現在中華電信所有船舶有20公尺長\n航速第五節在海南電纜左右一公里如果他有開AIS那我們有自動告急系統中華電信公司會自動傳給船上那這艘後船他也有海圖所以他知道海底電纜在哪裡他也有應該可以看到會告急他要趕快離開\n所以如果我們認定他剛好跟我們海底電纜的路線是很像的時候我們就會依照他AIS的狀況我們會通報他了這個時候他會還中華電信電信組織機關會第一時間直接傳到船上請他趕快離開再不走的話會通知我們那我們會過去會超前部署然後我們雷達也可以看\n那過去之後就這個案子就是我們下令他馬上起矛離開他看到我們下令起矛下令之後他就起矛當場就拉斷所以當場就拉斷掉了所以這個已經這已經等於發生了嘛所以未來如果我們在我們的修法更強化的話我們就有更強的一個公權力是 為什麼呢 跟委員報告這個這次七法最重要的原因就是第一個 嚴刑重罰\n除了故意犯以外如果涉及到國家安全跟社會安定的話甚至可以到十年以下有期徒刑罰金是照五千萬就是我們過失也處理是然後另外如果你又涉及到故意的話有十年以下的這個等於是一個重判涉及到國家安全然後船舶不問犯罪人所有比照土石採取直接沒入嗎直接沒入最重要第二點就是我們可以源頭管理那很多船舶東北季風都在我們外海滯留\n他可能是要等整補可能是要等載貨不管怎樣他就要降低成本在我們外海滯留那我們驅離之後我們要法格法 驅而復返那現在這個企劃中交通部 航港局有修正川普法8961他可以處罰三萬以上一千萬以下划完這行政法只要他不出去他沒有正常使用AS就可以處罰\n第三個最重要就是可以我們精準司法因為要求他要開AS若不開的話這個我們會處罰還有最重要最重要如果在滯留我們驅離他又互返我們現在跟航空局有共識也公告了20小時內驅離兩次的話以後就禁止他入港\n所以這些都是很重要的政策因為你用AIS我們就可以定位出它的位置在哪邊那你的位置的移動如果是跟我們的電纜是密切相關的我合理懷疑你就是要來破壞我的電纜所以我就可以採取強硬的措施甚至我驅趕你你有任何其他的部分我甚至於未來讓你不能夠進到我的崗裡\n換句話說可以降低大無的降低岸船系統就是我們現在所有的作為都是讓他們沒有降低掉他的那個啦因為當他要付出刑罰當他要付出很高的行政罰當他要甚至可能被扣留船隻的時候從過去那個倒採砂石的經驗我們就可以知道海砂的經驗知道當你用一些強硬的措施下去的時候他的利潤遠遠不及於他所可能\n導致的損失的時候他就不會去做這個行為甚至要可能被扣留有刑法的問題他就更不會犯了所以我覺得這些都是在保護我們國家安全重要的我們希望朝野一起來支持那這個其實也不只是台灣我看到斯洛伐克的國防部長前幾天來也講到\n海底電纜已經成為是一個看不見的戰爭特別是台灣周邊是台灣是海島啦周邊出去都是靠這些電纜的連結跟權勢的連結所以這更重要啦我們希望大家一起來盡快的完成這樣的修法啦一起來守護台灣的國家的安全啦謝謝委員我們全力支持啦再來我先請教一下經濟部長是不是也請教一下好不好\n我們現在這個產業的部分我們的海欄的維修跟海欄的這些工有沒有相關的強化我們這個產業的一個空間\n我們現在幾乎很多的海欄船大概都是其他國家所有的我們本身在這一塊其實並不強的我也希望未來進一步整理來思考讓我們自己的海欄的維修海欄的產業鏈是能夠更加的強化的這個也許跟交通部跟中華電信等等相關的可以做更多的討論好不好 這請部長在省鎮來討論\n好最後一點點時間我問一下這一次的高雄的就是非洲豬瘟台中非洲豬瘟跑到高雄去但是後來這個大榮的業者他包括說他只有小車才有GPS包括拖了一個半小時才說了大貨車位置包括甚至宣稱內容\n等等還有包括甚至裡面的顯然在物流這一塊裡面是有問題的啦我也希望未來在這個管理的部分我希望經濟部跟交通部在研議啦對於特別現在越來越多這種物流倉儲的一些管理我希望能夠做更多一些強化不然他覺得我不交代\n你也對我無可奈何我不去交代我到底有什麼東西 去了哪裡顯然你無可奈何那這樣對於未來我們在防疫甚至很多重要的一些狀況的時候我們其實這個部分部長有沒有一些強化的一些措施這個部分我們跟交通部會\n就像委員指導的我們會跟他們加強聯繫因為很多都是透過物流路上跑的是他們管那我們會把它結合起來單產業面上面我希望整體來讓這些納入到耕土管特別是現在我們看到家裡大榮甚至各界都懷疑他有港種資在掌握的那當這些我們的物流這些所有的是我們如果往不好的方向去思考的時候那當這些重要的物流都掌握在\n不是我們可掌控的手裡的時候它另外也會形成另外一個國安上的一個盲點跟漏洞所以我還希望這一塊要確實用更強的一些去約束它就是一旦有狀況的時候它必須要如實地依照國家的一些要求去包括交出正確的資訊包括做出正確的一些處置\n這一塊我希望國安局也整體要配合進來跟經濟部跟交通部一起來思考把這個要建立起來不然未來更多類似這樣的事件今天是豬肉非洲豬瘟 未來其他事件的時候如果這些物流業者並不願意配合國家的一些整體的要求跟這個的話那有可能要形成另外一個漏洞好不好請部長再跟交通部跟國安局這邊再來研議好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.650 --> 00:15.357\n好謝謝召委我先請海巡署的謝副署長跟國安局的陳處長我們請謝副署長跟陳處長\n\n00:19.990 --> 00:38.881\n謝謝委員好我先請教謝部長主委在昨天有發了文又載有漁船來到我們擔心它對海卵造成影響而驅離那我問一下海巡署從今年以來類似象徵安全帶有多少艦最近5年從109到113年總共有40艦平均每年大概8艦今年到現在為止有5艦\n\n00:47.927 --> 00:57.144\n今年五件對那五件包括宏泰包括盛興包括我們有漁船也有大陸漁船的我們都有含宋地檢數\n\n00:58.503 --> 01:25.776\n這個都含送了是那像那個稻紗的部分呢稻紗的話111年還有扣留兩艘之後就沒有了之後112年是零星在澎湖跟馬祖零星一兩艘被我們驅離行經的換句話說112年到現在就沒有稻紗那跟委員報告因為111年非常多的尤其馬祖中國大陸\n\n01:27.156 --> 01:54.088\n殺死船所以我們立法院非常感謝立法院也修正了土石管理法跟大陸教本及專屬經濟海報所以這個船舶不論是不是犯罪所有人都沒入所以這個有產生效用了有產生效用很好這個我也有參與到整個手提案我想這樣子我們就是要產生嚇阻力那也希望這次海欄七法也一樣有這樣的效益那我是不是也問一下國安局好不好我們的陳處長委員好\n\n01:55.829 --> 02:05.080\n這一段時間就國安局的掌握我們的這些所謂的這樣的一些事件數量要不要那個陳處長也講一下報告委員有關\n\n02:06.638 --> 02:30.485\n在我們海域做到的這些威脅的一個傳播的部分事實上我們在有關相關預警或者是海運署的一個即時應處基本上我們都是有一個運作的一個機制所以說在整個一發生的這一些的一些礦通常我們基本上我們第一時間就是有保持的一個通報跟應處這是我們目前在國安局有充分掌握這些狀況有包括有\n\n02:31.545 --> 02:37.810\n那我問一下剛剛提到的包括副市長提到的這些斷纜的事件平均每年大概七到八件\n\n02:40.873 --> 03:03.872\n剛剛有提到我們今年大概是有5件左右今年5件所以它的狀況跟往年是差不多的是差不多但是我們在強度方面事實上海巡在這一部分的應鎖都是第一時間就去做馬上的一個查詢包括有關雷達的回放這個我們都及時掌握那我來問兩位像這個\n\n03:07.767 --> 03:33.822\n順興39的部分這樣的他的線路這樣子跑這是一個正常的狀況嗎委員巴委員因為這個要從個案事實認定我先講一下剛才委員指導的是1月3號那今年2月25號在台南外海我們當場扣留鴻泰58號他是多個級的那他是現在中華電信所有船舶有20公尺長\n\n03:35.163 --> 03:53.577\n航速第五節在海南電纜左右一公里如果他有開AIS那我們有自動告急系統中華電信公司會自動傳給船上那這艘後船他也有海圖所以他知道海底電纜在哪裡他也有應該可以看到會告急他要趕快離開\n\n03:55.618 --> 04:16.669\n所以如果我們認定他剛好跟我們海底電纜的路線是很像的時候我們就會依照他AIS的狀況我們會通報他了這個時候他會還中華電信電信組織機關會第一時間直接傳到船上請他趕快離開再不走的話會通知我們那我們會過去會超前部署然後我們雷達也可以看\n\n04:17.409 --> 04:41.370\n那過去之後就這個案子就是我們下令他馬上起矛離開他看到我們下令起矛下令之後他就起矛當場就拉斷所以當場就拉斷掉了所以這個已經這已經等於發生了嘛所以未來如果我們在我們的修法更強化的話我們就有更強的一個公權力是為什麼呢跟委員報告這個這次七法最重要的原因就是第一個嚴刑重罰\n\n04:42.699 --> 05:10.937\n除了故意犯以外如果涉及到國家安全跟社會安定的話甚至可以到十年以下有期徒刑罰金是照五千萬就是我們過失也處理是然後另外如果你又涉及到故意的話有十年以下的這個等於是一個重判涉及到國家安全然後船舶不問犯罪人所有比照土石採取直接沒入嗎直接沒入最重要第二點就是我們可以源頭管理那很多船舶東北季風都在我們外海滯留\n\n05:12.618 --> 05:35.115\n他可能是要等整補可能是要等載貨不管怎樣他就要降低成本在我們外海滯留那我們驅離之後我們要法格法驅而復返那現在這個企劃中交通部航港局有修正川普法8961他可以處罰三萬以上一千萬以下划完這行政法只要他不出去他沒有正常使用AS就可以處罰\n\n05:35.976 --> 05:54.134\n第三個最重要就是可以我們精準司法因為要求他要開AS若不開的話這個我們會處罰還有最重要最重要如果在滯留我們驅離他又互返我們現在跟航空局有共識也公告了20小時內驅離兩次的話以後就禁止他入港\n\n05:54.514 --> 06:11.673\n所以這些都是很重要的政策因為你用AIS我們就可以定位出它的位置在哪邊那你的位置的移動如果是跟我們的電纜是密切相關的我合理懷疑你就是要來破壞我的電纜所以我就可以採取強硬的措施甚至我驅趕你你有任何其他的部分我甚至於未來讓你不能夠進到我的崗裡\n\n06:12.293 --> 06:34.666\n換句話說可以降低大無的降低岸船系統就是我們現在所有的作為都是讓他們沒有降低掉他的那個啦因為當他要付出刑罰當他要付出很高的行政罰當他要甚至可能被扣留船隻的時候從過去那個倒採砂石的經驗我們就可以知道海砂的經驗知道當你用一些強硬的措施下去的時候他的利潤遠遠不及於他所可能\n\n06:35.306 --> 06:50.613\n導致的損失的時候他就不會去做這個行為甚至要可能被扣留有刑法的問題他就更不會犯了所以我覺得這些都是在保護我們國家安全重要的我們希望朝野一起來支持那這個其實也不只是台灣我看到斯洛伐克的國防部長前幾天來也講到\n\n06:51.874 --> 07:14.316\n海底電纜已經成為是一個看不見的戰爭特別是台灣周邊是台灣是海島啦周邊出去都是靠這些電纜的連結跟權勢的連結所以這更重要啦我們希望大家一起來盡快的完成這樣的修法啦一起來守護台灣的國家的安全啦謝謝委員我們全力支持啦再來我先請教一下經濟部長是不是也請教一下好不好\n\n07:15.217 --> 07:22.269\n我們現在這個產業的部分我們的海欄的維修跟海欄的這些工有沒有相關的強化我們這個產業的一個空間\n\n07:24.963 --> 07:44.724\n我們現在幾乎很多的海欄船大概都是其他國家所有的我們本身在這一塊其實並不強的我也希望未來進一步整理來思考讓我們自己的海欄的維修海欄的產業鏈是能夠更加的強化的這個也許跟交通部跟中華電信等等相關的可以做更多的討論好不好這請部長在省鎮來討論\n\n07:45.725 --> 08:01.912\n好最後一點點時間我問一下這一次的高雄的就是非洲豬瘟台中非洲豬瘟跑到高雄去但是後來這個大榮的業者他包括說他只有小車才有GPS包括拖了一個半小時才說了大貨車位置包括甚至宣稱內容\n\n08:03.653 --> 08:23.843\n等等還有包括甚至裡面的顯然在物流這一塊裡面是有問題的啦我也希望未來在這個管理的部分我希望經濟部跟交通部在研議啦對於特別現在越來越多這種物流倉儲的一些管理我希望能夠做更多一些強化不然他覺得我不交代\n\n08:24.563 --> 08:40.206\n你也對我無可奈何我不去交代我到底有什麼東西去了哪裡顯然你無可奈何那這樣對於未來我們在防疫甚至很多重要的一些狀況的時候我們其實這個部分部長有沒有一些強化的一些措施這個部分我們跟交通部會\n\n08:41.967 --> 09:09.113\n就像委員指導的我們會跟他們加強聯繫因為很多都是透過物流路上跑的是他們管那我們會把它結合起來單產業面上面我希望整體來讓這些納入到耕土管特別是現在我們看到家裡大榮甚至各界都懷疑他有港種資在掌握的那當這些我們的物流這些所有的是我們如果往不好的方向去思考的時候那當這些重要的物流都掌握在\n\n09:09.873 --> 09:29.389\n不是我們可掌控的手裡的時候它另外也會形成另外一個國安上的一個盲點跟漏洞所以我還希望這一塊要確實用更強的一些去約束它就是一旦有狀況的時候它必須要如實地依照國家的一些要求去包括交出正確的資訊包括做出正確的一些處置\n\n09:30.509 --> 09:55.114\n這一塊我希望國安局也整體要配合進來跟經濟部跟交通部一起來思考把這個要建立起來不然未來更多類似這樣的事件今天是豬肉非洲豬瘟未來其他事件的時候如果這些物流業者並不願意配合國家的一些整體的要求跟這個的話那有可能要形成另外一個漏洞好不好請部長再跟交通部跟國安局這邊再來研議好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.65,"end":15.357,"text":"好 謝謝召委我先請海巡署的謝副署長跟國安局的陳處長我們請謝副署長跟陳處長"},{"start":19.99,"end":38.881,"text":"謝謝委員好我先請教謝部長主委在昨天有發了文又載有漁船來到我們擔心它對海卵造成影響而驅離那我問一下海巡署從今年以來類似象徵安全帶有多少艦最近5年從109到113年總共有40艦平均每年大概8艦今年到現在為止有5艦"},{"start":47.927,"end":57.144,"text":"今年五件對 那五件包括宏泰包括盛興包括我們有漁船也有大陸漁船的我們都有含宋地檢數"},{"start":58.503,"end":85.776,"text":"這個都含送了是那像那個稻紗的部分呢稻紗的話111年還有扣留兩艘之後就沒有了之後112年是零星在澎湖跟馬祖零星一兩艘被我們驅離 行經的換句話說112年到現在就沒有稻紗那跟委員報告因為111年非常多的尤其馬祖 中國大陸"},{"start":87.156,"end":114.088,"text":"殺死船所以我們立法院 非常感謝立法院也修正了土石管理法跟大陸教本及專屬經濟海報所以這個船舶不論是不是犯罪所有人都沒入所以這個有產生效用了有產生效用很好 這個我也有參與到整個手提案我想這樣子我們就是要產生嚇阻力那也希望這次海欄七法也一樣有這樣的效益那我是不是也問一下國安局好不好我們的陳處長委員好"},{"start":115.829,"end":125.08,"text":"這一段時間就國安局的掌握我們的這些所謂的這樣的一些事件數量要不要那個陳處長也講一下報告委員有關"},{"start":126.638,"end":150.485,"text":"在我們海域做到的這些威脅的一個傳播的部分事實上我們在有關相關預警或者是海運署的一個即時應處基本上我們都是有一個運作的一個機制所以說在整個一發生的這一些的一些礦通常我們基本上我們第一時間就是有保持的一個通報跟應處這是我們目前在國安局有充分掌握這些狀況有 包括有"},{"start":151.545,"end":157.81,"text":"那我問一下剛剛提到的包括副市長提到的這些斷纜的事件平均每年大概七到八件"},{"start":160.873,"end":183.872,"text":"剛剛有提到我們今年大概是有5件左右今年5件所以它的狀況跟往年是差不多的是差不多但是我們在強度方面事實上海巡在這一部分的應鎖都是第一時間就去做馬上的一個查詢包括有關雷達的回放這個我們都及時掌握那我來問兩位像這個"},{"start":187.767,"end":213.822,"text":"順興39的部分這樣的他的線路這樣子跑這是一個正常的狀況嗎委員 巴委員因為這個要從個案事實認定我先講一下剛才委員指導的是1月3號那今年2月25號在台南外海我們當場扣留鴻泰58號他是多個級的那他是現在中華電信所有船舶有20公尺長"},{"start":215.163,"end":233.577,"text":"航速第五節在海南電纜左右一公里如果他有開AIS那我們有自動告急系統中華電信公司會自動傳給船上那這艘後船他也有海圖所以他知道海底電纜在哪裡他也有應該可以看到會告急他要趕快離開"},{"start":235.618,"end":256.669,"text":"所以如果我們認定他剛好跟我們海底電纜的路線是很像的時候我們就會依照他AIS的狀況我們會通報他了這個時候他會還中華電信電信組織機關會第一時間直接傳到船上請他趕快離開再不走的話會通知我們那我們會過去會超前部署然後我們雷達也可以看"},{"start":257.409,"end":281.37,"text":"那過去之後就這個案子就是我們下令他馬上起矛離開他看到我們下令起矛下令之後他就起矛當場就拉斷所以當場就拉斷掉了所以這個已經這已經等於發生了嘛所以未來如果我們在我們的修法更強化的話我們就有更強的一個公權力是 為什麼呢 跟委員報告這個這次七法最重要的原因就是第一個 嚴刑重罰"},{"start":282.699,"end":310.937,"text":"除了故意犯以外如果涉及到國家安全跟社會安定的話甚至可以到十年以下有期徒刑罰金是照五千萬就是我們過失也處理是然後另外如果你又涉及到故意的話有十年以下的這個等於是一個重判涉及到國家安全然後船舶不問犯罪人所有比照土石採取直接沒入嗎直接沒入最重要第二點就是我們可以源頭管理那很多船舶東北季風都在我們外海滯留"},{"start":312.618,"end":335.115,"text":"他可能是要等整補可能是要等載貨不管怎樣他就要降低成本在我們外海滯留那我們驅離之後我們要法格法 驅而復返那現在這個企劃中交通部 航港局有修正川普法8961他可以處罰三萬以上一千萬以下划完這行政法只要他不出去他沒有正常使用AS就可以處罰"},{"start":335.976,"end":354.134,"text":"第三個最重要就是可以我們精準司法因為要求他要開AS若不開的話這個我們會處罰還有最重要最重要如果在滯留我們驅離他又互返我們現在跟航空局有共識也公告了20小時內驅離兩次的話以後就禁止他入港"},{"start":354.514,"end":371.673,"text":"所以這些都是很重要的政策因為你用AIS我們就可以定位出它的位置在哪邊那你的位置的移動如果是跟我們的電纜是密切相關的我合理懷疑你就是要來破壞我的電纜所以我就可以採取強硬的措施甚至我驅趕你你有任何其他的部分我甚至於未來讓你不能夠進到我的崗裡"},{"start":372.293,"end":394.666,"text":"換句話說可以降低大無的降低岸船系統就是我們現在所有的作為都是讓他們沒有降低掉他的那個啦因為當他要付出刑罰當他要付出很高的行政罰當他要甚至可能被扣留船隻的時候從過去那個倒採砂石的經驗我們就可以知道海砂的經驗知道當你用一些強硬的措施下去的時候他的利潤遠遠不及於他所可能"},{"start":395.306,"end":410.613,"text":"導致的損失的時候他就不會去做這個行為甚至要可能被扣留有刑法的問題他就更不會犯了所以我覺得這些都是在保護我們國家安全重要的我們希望朝野一起來支持那這個其實也不只是台灣我看到斯洛伐克的國防部長前幾天來也講到"},{"start":411.874,"end":434.316,"text":"海底電纜已經成為是一個看不見的戰爭特別是台灣周邊是台灣是海島啦周邊出去都是靠這些電纜的連結跟權勢的連結所以這更重要啦我們希望大家一起來盡快的完成這樣的修法啦一起來守護台灣的國家的安全啦謝謝委員我們全力支持啦再來我先請教一下經濟部長是不是也請教一下好不好"},{"start":435.217,"end":442.269,"text":"我們現在這個產業的部分我們的海欄的維修跟海欄的這些工有沒有相關的強化我們這個產業的一個空間"},{"start":444.963,"end":464.724,"text":"我們現在幾乎很多的海欄船大概都是其他國家所有的我們本身在這一塊其實並不強的我也希望未來進一步整理來思考讓我們自己的海欄的維修海欄的產業鏈是能夠更加的強化的這個也許跟交通部跟中華電信等等相關的可以做更多的討論好不好 這請部長在省鎮來討論"},{"start":465.725,"end":481.912,"text":"好最後一點點時間我問一下這一次的高雄的就是非洲豬瘟台中非洲豬瘟跑到高雄去但是後來這個大榮的業者他包括說他只有小車才有GPS包括拖了一個半小時才說了大貨車位置包括甚至宣稱內容"},{"start":483.653,"end":503.843,"text":"等等還有包括甚至裡面的顯然在物流這一塊裡面是有問題的啦我也希望未來在這個管理的部分我希望經濟部跟交通部在研議啦對於特別現在越來越多這種物流倉儲的一些管理我希望能夠做更多一些強化不然他覺得我不交代"},{"start":504.563,"end":520.206,"text":"你也對我無可奈何我不去交代我到底有什麼東西 去了哪裡顯然你無可奈何那這樣對於未來我們在防疫甚至很多重要的一些狀況的時候我們其實這個部分部長有沒有一些強化的一些措施這個部分我們跟交通部會"},{"start":521.967,"end":549.113,"text":"就像委員指導的我們會跟他們加強聯繫因為很多都是透過物流路上跑的是他們管那我們會把它結合起來單產業面上面我希望整體來讓這些納入到耕土管特別是現在我們看到家裡大榮甚至各界都懷疑他有港種資在掌握的那當這些我們的物流這些所有的是我們如果往不好的方向去思考的時候那當這些重要的物流都掌握在"},{"start":549.873,"end":569.389,"text":"不是我們可掌控的手裡的時候它另外也會形成另外一個國安上的一個盲點跟漏洞所以我還希望這一塊要確實用更強的一些去約束它就是一旦有狀況的時候它必須要如實地依照國家的一些要求去包括交出正確的資訊包括做出正確的一些處置"},{"start":570.509,"end":595.114,"text":"這一塊我希望國安局也整體要配合進來跟經濟部跟交通部一起來思考把這個要建立起來不然未來更多類似這樣的事件今天是豬肉非洲豬瘟 未來其他事件的時候如果這些物流業者並不願意配合國家的一些整體的要求跟這個的話那有可能要形成另外一個漏洞好不好請部長再跟交通部跟國安局這邊再來研議好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":613,"blocks":[["賴委員瑞隆：（10時48分）謝謝召委。先請海巡署謝副署長跟國安局陳處長。"],["主席：請謝副署長、陳處長，謝謝。"],["謝副署長慶欽：委員好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我先請教謝副署長。主委昨天發文表示，又有漁船來到，我們擔心對海纜造成影響而驅離。我請問一下海巡署，從今年以來，類似這樣的案件到底有多少件？"],["謝副署長慶欽：最近5年，從109年到113年，總共有40件，平均每年大概8件。"],["賴委員瑞隆：今年多少件？"],["謝副署長慶欽：今年到現在為止有5件。"],["賴委員瑞隆：今年5件？"],["謝副署長慶欽：對，五件，包括宏泰、包括順興，也有大陸漁船，我們都有函送地檢署。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這些都函送了？"],["謝副署長慶欽：是、是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：像盜砂的部分呢？"],["謝副署長慶欽：盜砂的話，111年還有扣留兩艘，之後就沒有了。112年是零星在澎湖跟馬祖出現，有一、兩艘航經的被我們驅離，換句話說，從112年到現在就沒有盜砂。跟委員報告，111年有非常多中國大陸的砂石船，尤其馬祖，所以我們非常感謝立法院，因為立法院修正了土石採取法、專屬經濟海域及大陸礁層法，所以不管船舶是不是犯罪所有人所有一概沒入……"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以有產生效用？"],["謝副署長慶欽：有產生效用。"],["賴委員瑞隆：很好，這個其實我也有提案。"],["謝副署長慶欽：謝謝委員。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我想我們目的就是要產生嚇阻力，也希望這次的海纜七法也一樣能有這樣的效益。","我問一下國安局陳處長。"],["陳處長：委員好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這一段時間以來，就國安局掌握的船舶事件與數量，陳處長要不要也講一下？"],["陳處長：報告委員，有關在我們海域周遭造成威脅的船舶問題，事實上我們有相關預警或海巡署的即時應處，基本上都有運作的機制。所以事件一發生時，我們通常會在第一時間就保持通報與應處，這是我們目前……"],["賴委員瑞隆：國安局有充分掌握這些狀況？"],["陳處長：報告，有。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我問一下。我剛剛提到的，包括副署長提到的斷纜事件，平均每年大概7到8件？"],["陳處長：剛剛有提到，今年大概有5件左右。"],["賴委員瑞隆：今年5件？"],["陳處長：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：今年5件，所以狀況跟往年差不多？"],["陳處長：是差不多。但在強度方面，事實上海巡都在第一時間應處，也馬上查處，包括雷達的回防，這些我們都即時掌握。"],["賴委員瑞隆：請教兩位，像順興39，它的線路這樣子跑，這是一個正常的狀況嗎？"],["謝副署長慶欽：報告委員，這要就個案的事實認定起。我先講一下，剛才委員指導的案件是在1月3號，今年2月25號在臺南外海我們當場扣留了宏泰58，它是多哥籍的。現在船舶只要有20公尺長，航速低於5節，在海纜左右1公里徘徊的，如果它有開AIS，我們有自動告警系統，中華電信公司會自動傳給船上，這艘貨船也有海圖，所以它知道海底電纜在哪裡，也應該可以看到告警它要趕快離開，結果它沒有開AIS……"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以如果我們認定它剛好跟我們海底電纜的路線是很像的時候，我們就會依照它AIS的狀況，通報它了啦！"],["謝副署長慶欽：這個時候中華電信、電信主管機關會第一時間直接傳到船上，請它趕快離開，再不走的話會通知我們，我們會過去、會超前部署，然後我們雷達也可以看，過去之後……就這個案子我們下令它馬上起錨離開，它看到我們下令之後就起錨，當場就拉斷。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以當場就拉斷掉了？"],["謝副署長慶欽：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以這個已經發生了嘛！所以未來如果修法更強化的話，我們就有更強的公權力。"],["謝副署長慶欽：是，為什麼呢？跟委員報告，這次七法最重要的原因，第一個，嚴刑重罰，除了故意犯以外，如果涉及到國家安全跟社會安定的話，甚至可以到十年以下有期徒刑，罰金是到五千萬。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我們過失也處理啦！另外，如果又涉及到故意的話，有十年以下的重判。"],["謝副署長慶欽：是，這涉及到國家安全。然後船舶，不問犯罪人所有與否，比照土石採取法……"],["賴委員瑞隆：直接沒入嘛！"],["謝副署長慶欽：直接沒入。最重要第二點就是我們可以源頭管理，很多船舶東北季風都在我們外海滯留，它可能是要等整補、可能是要等載貨，不管怎樣它就要降低本在我們外海滯留，那我們驅離之後，沒有法可罰，驅而復返。現在七法中，交通部航港局有修正船舶法第八十九條之一，可以處罰三萬以上一千萬以下罰鍰，這是行政罰，只要它不出去、沒有正常使用AIS就可以處罰。第三個，最重要就是我們可以精準執法，因為要求它要開AIS，如果不開的話，我們會處罰。還有最重要、最重要，如果再滯留，我們驅離它又復返，我們現在跟航港局有共識，也公告了，20小時內驅離兩次的話，以後就禁止它入港。"],["賴委員瑞隆：所以這些都是很重要的政策啦！因為用AIS，我們就可以定位出它的位置在哪邊，位置的移動如果跟我們電纜是密切相關的，合理懷疑它就是要來破壞我們的電纜，所以我們就可以採取強硬的措施。"],["謝副署長慶欽：是的，最重要是……"],["賴委員瑞隆：甚至我驅趕你，你有任何其他的部分，我甚至於未來讓你不能夠進到我的港裡面。"],["謝副署長慶欽：換句話說，可以大幅地降低岸傳系統的干擾。"],["賴委員瑞隆：就是我們現在所有的作為沒有讓他們沒有將低掉……因為當它要付出刑罰、付出很高的行政罰，甚至可能要被扣留船隻的時候，從過去盜採砂石的經驗，我們就可以知道當你用一些強硬的措施下去，它的利潤遠遠不及於所可能導致損失的時候，它就不會去做這個行為，甚至有可能被扣留、有刑罰的問題，它就更不會犯了，所以我覺得這些都是在保護我們國家安全，我們也希望朝野一起來支持。這個其實也不只是臺灣，我看到斯洛伐克的國防部長前幾天來也講到，海底電纜已經成為一個看不見的戰爭，特別是臺灣周邊是海，臺灣是海島啦！周邊出去都是靠這些電纜的連結，跟全世界的連結，所以這更重要了，我們希望大家一起儘快完成這樣的修法，一起來守護臺灣的國家安全。"],["謝副署長慶欽：謝謝委員，我們全力以赴。"],["賴委員瑞隆：謝謝，我們全力支持啦！再來我請教一下經濟部長，現在產業的部分，我們海纜的維修跟海纜的工程有沒有相關強化這個產業的空間？我們現在幾乎很多的海纜船大概都是其他國家所有的，我們本身在這一塊其實並不強，我也希望未來經濟部整體來思考，讓我們自己海纜的維修、海纜的產業鏈能夠更加強化，這個也許跟交通部、跟中華電信等等相關的可以做更多的討論，好不好？請部長再審慎來討論。"],["龔部長明鑫：好的。"],["賴委員瑞隆：最後一點點時間，我問一下，這一次臺中非洲豬瘟跑到高雄去，但是後來大榮的業者說它只有小車才有GPS，拖了一個半小時才說明大貨車位置，甚至宣稱內容等等，還有包括裡面的物品，顯然在物流這一塊裡面是有問題的啦！未來在管理的部分，我希望經濟部跟交通部再研議，特別對於現在越來越多這種物流倉儲的管理，我希望能夠做更多的強化，不然它覺得即使不交代也對它無可奈何，它不交代到底有什麼東西、去了哪裡，顯然我們也無可奈何，這樣對於未來我們在防疫，甚至很多重要的狀況的時候，我們其實……這個部分，部長有沒有一些強化的措施？"],["龔部長明鑫：好，這個部分就像委員指導的，我們會跟交通部加強聯繫。"],["賴委員瑞隆：好，因為很多都是透過物流……"],["龔部長明鑫：倉儲是我們管，路上跑的是他們管，我們會把它結合起來。"],["賴委員瑞隆：但是產業面上面，我希望整體讓這些納入到……特別是現在我們看到嘉里大榮，甚至各界都懷疑它有港中資在掌握，當這些物流是往不好的方向去思考的時候，當這些重要的物流不是可以掌握在我們手裡的時候，也會形成另外一個國安上的盲點跟漏洞。所以我還是希望這一塊要確實用更強的措施去約束它，就是一旦有狀況的時候，它必須要如實地依照國家的要求，包括交出正確的資訊、包括做出正確的處置，好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：是，我們正在釐清。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這一塊我希望國安局也整體要配合，進來跟經濟部、交通部一起來思考，要把這個建立起來，不然未來更多類似這樣的事件，今天是豬肉非洲豬瘟，未來其他事件的時候，如果這些物流業者並不願意配合國家的整體要求的話，有可能還會形成另外一個漏洞，好不好？"],["龔部長明鑫：是，這個我們正在處理。"],["賴委員瑞隆：請部長再跟交通部和國安局來研議啦！"],["龔部長明鑫：好的。"],["賴委員瑞隆：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴瑞隆委員的質詢，謝謝部長。","我們現在請楊瓊瓔委員質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-8","speakers":["陳亭妃","羅美玲","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","呂玉玲","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","賴士葆","葉元之","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","鄭正鈐","黃捷","張嘉郡","林楚茵","陳超明"],"page_start":333,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員王美\n惠等20人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人擬具「電\n業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具\n「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「電業法第七十一\n條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草\n案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院\n委員黃捷等22人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬\n具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「電業法第七十\n一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修\n正草案」案；二、審查： ( 一) 行政院函請審議「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員王美惠等20人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本\n院委員李坤城等18人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗\n華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本\n院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美\n玲等19人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬\n具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「天然氣事\n業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十\n五條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案；三、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委\n員王美惠等19人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人\n擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「自來\n水法第三條、第十六條之一及第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬\n具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「自來水法第\n九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案（合併詢答）","agenda_id":"1148901_00007"}}}