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00:00:08,813\n謝謝主席有請部長請部長\n\n2\n00:00:17,058 --> 00:00:45,191\n部長好今天有審查電業法天然氣濕業法自來水法這三個法其實我也都有提案不過我想說先來關心一下我們地方族人跟水跟電有關的陳情第一個部分就是想要請教一下因為我在上一屆剛上任立委的時候在花蓮的修林鄉有一個陳情案\n\n3\n00:00:45,951 --> 00:01:02,052\n那個地方就是挨家挨戶他們都是挨著那個電塔所以在台電這邊也有一個花蓮北埔線路的一個工程有一個方案叫做嘉明村替代方案\n\n4\n00:01:02,632 --> 00:01:20,964\n那當時呢其實我是拿到一個回覆他說考量地方用電需求線路最持續110年底前完成知己破信期待能夠獲得鄉親同意先以原路徑完成送電後再儘速拆除嘉明村境內的\n\n5\n00:01:22,044 --> 00:01:44,693\n計設就線路並持續進行以往山區之最終遷改路徑相關作業那我要說的是其實嘉明村的人大多都認同就是要把這個高壓電塔遷往山區這個是他們認同的但是呢經過這麼多年他們也常常問因為看不到進度所以想了解一下相關進度是怎麼樣\n\n6\n00:01:50,184 --> 00:02:10,351\n跟委員報告這個案子主要是也談了一段時間了啦那最主要就是因為路線的可能還有一些爭議啦雖然往山區這邊來移動但是需要一些溝通啦因為我們重點都是在所以我就是想要了解到底有沒有努力跟族人溝通\n\n7\n00:02:11,997 --> 00:02:22,364\n一直都持續在開會經常開會嗎對開會主要是另外一邊要移過去那邊那邊也有一些爭議在我是這樣想109年\n\n8\n00:02:24,864 --> 00:02:48,313\n我不知道之前有沒有啦但是我是109年上任今天你看已經6年了那主任也常常在問所以這個部分今天就是提醒要最起碼要讓我們知道相關進度為何困難在哪裡那到底做過多少場次的溝通座談這個部分可不可以給辦公室一些資料好詳細情形再給OK好謝謝\n\n9\n00:02:51,374 --> 00:03:08,123\n那第二個部分因為我們原住民很多的部落都是經過兩到三次的一個集體性的遷村那我們也很慢就是設置水管那很多的部落他設置水管至今\n\n10\n00:03:08,923 --> 00:03:37,837\n有的已經50年有的40年不等但是呢我們也很希望說可以趕快配合我們水公司這邊的一個管線汰換工程所以我們也積極的就民眾陳情來爭取那像去年113年以屏東來講我看到的就是我們泰安鄉的萬安還有馬家鄉的嘉義村山地門鄉的青山村還有馬家鄉的山河村\n\n11\n00:03:38,757 --> 00:03:42,624\n我看到有爭取到啦但是我比較不理解的就是\n\n12\n00:03:43,669 --> 00:04:09,219\n今年6月才看到台水公司的一個新聞稿說要積極推動降漏的工作那降不降漏是一回事但是我看到我們原鄉很多的那個鐵管生鏽而且是鐵管還能夠破碎生鏽到破碎那個水出來都是紅紅的其實都是急需排優先管線汰換\n\n13\n00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:19,056\n我不曉得是你們的標準是怎麼樣至少我看到今年就比去年少很多所以想了解一下\n\n14\n00:04:20,427 --> 00:04:42,463\n像今年我看到的就是只有來義鄉的義林村還有山地門鄉的山地村感謝委員的提示那我想水公司針對管線汰換依照我們有一些這個汰換的一個標準包括破管的頻率包括剛剛委員提到的對水質的影響我想這個部分我們都有再積極的依照我們的這個相關的標準的作業來處理\n\n15\n00:04:43,263 --> 00:04:56,753\n那有關剛剛這個委員關心的這個原鄉的部分呢我們大概113年大概有辦理了六件的一個管金工程大概有1.13億的貸款的經費那這個114年的部分我們目前對啊你們才發新聞稿所以要積極大概有五件目前還有五件那分布在那個這個來義山地門春日滿洲那我講這個部分我們一些細目的一些部分我們會跟委員做一個報告\n\n16\n00:05:10,702 --> 00:05:25,047\n我只是要表達其實很多部落的管縣真的都已經歷經50年所以我希望說這個部分要考量到原鄉的一個需求好不好那最後還是再請教一下關於那個海嵐法的問題因為\n\n17\n00:05:27,088 --> 00:05:46,082\n我們其實就是因為這幾年來特別是像今年就已經是海嵐斷裂已經9次所以我們就很關心這個修法的問題但是這個除了抓不勝抓不好抓還有不好定罪的問題以這個今年8月29號這個是首度\n\n18\n00:05:48,604 --> 00:06:04,336\n有針對破壞海欄的船隻及船員啟動刑事調查而且有二審判刑三年這個是中國籍的船長但是呢這也引發我們去思考就是領海之外的犯罪要如何防範\n\n19\n00:06:05,777 --> 00:06:34,125\n而且定罪所以在這邊原本刑法第三條它是指說可以適用的是領域內的犯罪或船艦或航空器所以像這種在領海之外的也許可以用刑法第四條它的結果如果是結果有在中國民國領域內的話也算領域內的犯罪但是我們就是擔心像這種沒有造成顯著災情或者是未遂那能不能夠適用\n\n20\n00:06:35,505 --> 00:06:51,110\n那又或者是說像我們今天的這個自來水法為什麼要修法就是看到這個判罪他就是適用第97條之一因為他是二審還判刑三年所以他是用了第一項他只是認定他就是毀壞\n\n21\n00:06:52,850 --> 00:07:17,387\n所以我的意思是說我們主張的就是為了避免這樣子的一個情況發生所以除了我們希望刪除這種像第二項的這種主觀意圖的條款那也希望可以去新增但書就是在中華民國領域外犯本條之罪者亦適用之不曉得部長您的意見如何\n\n22\n00:07:18,918 --> 00:07:40,676\n現在我們就是連過失事上也有刑罰了已經把他加進來了不會說你是說我不知道我不是故意的只要有造成破壞過失也要刑罰那主觀翻譯那個更是加重現在部分就是修法的方向就是往這個方向我們就是往這個方向讓他可以去適用這個刑法第七條\n\n23\n00:07:41,917 --> 00:08:08,384\n谢谢谢谢武林法委员谢谢所以其实我们只要咨询让他们知道说这个地下它是有这些管线的那你当然你还过去就是故意这个东西就没有什么样的所谓的有模糊空间所以我们修这个法就是一定要让它有研法然后去做一个管制那我们现在请黄国昌委员\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7609\t8813\t謝謝主席有請部長請部長\n17058\t45191\t部長好今天有審查電業法天然氣濕業法自來水法這三個法其實我也都有提案不過我想說先來關心一下我們地方族人跟水跟電有關的陳情第一個部分就是想要請教一下因為我在上一屆剛上任立委的時候在花蓮的修林鄉有一個陳情案\n45951\t62052\t那個地方就是挨家挨戶他們都是挨著那個電塔所以在台電這邊也有一個花蓮北埔線路的一個工程有一個方案叫做嘉明村替代方案\n62632\t80964\t那當時呢其實我是拿到一個回覆他說考量地方用電需求線路最持續110年底前完成知己破信期待能夠獲得鄉親同意先以原路徑完成送電後再儘速拆除嘉明村境內的\n82044\t104693\t計設就線路 並持續進行以往山區之最終遷改路徑相關作業 那我要說的是其實嘉明村的人 大多都認同就是要把這個高壓電塔遷往山區這個是他們認同的 但是呢經過這麼多年 他們也常常問因為看不到進度 所以想了解一下相關進度是怎麼樣\n110184\t130351\t跟委員報告這個案子主要是也談了一段時間了啦那最主要就是因為路線的可能還有一些爭議啦雖然往山區這邊來移動但是需要一些溝通啦因為我們重點都是在所以我就是想要了解到底有沒有努力跟族人溝通\n131997\t142364\t一直都持續在開會經常開會嗎對 開會主要是另外一邊要移過去那邊那邊也有一些爭議在我是這樣想109年\n144864\t168313\t我不知道之前有沒有啦但是我是109年上任今天你看已經6年了那主任也常常在問所以這個部分今天就是提醒要最起碼要讓我們知道相關進度為何困難在哪裡那到底做過多少場次的溝通座談這個部分可不可以給辦公室一些資料好 詳細情形再給OK 好 謝謝\n171374\t188123\t那第二個部分因為我們原住民很多的部落都是經過兩到三次的一個集體性的遷村那我們也很慢就是設置水管那很多的部落他設置水管至今\n188923\t217837\t有的已經50年有的40年不等但是呢我們也很希望說可以趕快配合我們水公司這邊的一個管線汰換工程所以我們也積極的就民眾陳情來爭取那像去年113年以屏東來講我看到的就是我們泰安鄉的萬安還有馬家鄉的嘉義村山地門鄉的青山村還有馬家鄉的山河村\n218757\t222624\t我看到有爭取到啦但是我比較不理解的就是\n223669\t249219\t今年6月才看到台水公司的一個新聞稿說要積極推動降漏的工作那降不降漏是一回事但是我看到我們原鄉很多的那個鐵管生鏽而且是鐵管還能夠破碎生鏽到破碎那個水出來都是紅紅的其實都是急需排優先管線汰換\n250600\t259056\t我不曉得是你們的標準是怎麼樣至少我看到今年就比去年少很多所以想了解一下\n260427\t282463\t像今年我看到的就是只有來義鄉的義林村還有山地門鄉的山地村感謝委員的提示那我想水公司針對管線汰換依照我們有一些這個汰換的一個標準包括破管的頻率包括剛剛委員提到的對水質的影響我想這個部分我們都有再積極的依照我們的這個相關的標準的作業來處理\n283263\t296753\t那有關剛剛這個委員關心的這個原鄉的部分呢我們大概113年大概有辦理了六件的一個管金工程大概有1.13億的貸款的經費那這個114年的部分我們目前對啊 你們才發新聞稿所以要積極大概有五件 目前還有五件那分布在那個這個來義 山地門 春日 滿洲那我講這個部分我們一些細目的一些部分我們會跟委員做一個報告\n310702\t325047\t我只是要表達其實很多部落的管縣真的都已經歷經50年所以我希望說這個部分要考量到原鄉的一個需求好不好那最後還是再請教一下關於那個海嵐法的問題因為\n327088\t346082\t我們其實就是因為這幾年來特別是像今年就已經是海嵐斷裂已經9次所以我們就很關心這個修法的問題但是這個除了抓不勝抓 不好抓還有不好定罪的問題以這個今年8月29號這個是首度\n348604\t364336\t有針對破壞海欄的船隻及船員啟動刑事調查而且有二審判刑三年這個是中國籍的船長但是呢這也引發我們去思考就是領海之外的犯罪要如何防範\n365777\t394125\t而且定罪 所以在這邊原本刑法第三條它是指說可以適用的是領域內的犯罪或船艦或航空器所以像這種在領海之外的也許可以用刑法第四條它的結果如果是結果有在中國民國領域內的話也算領域內的犯罪但是我們就是擔心像這種沒有造成顯著災情或者是未遂那能不能夠適用\n395505\t411110\t那又或者是說像我們今天的這個自來水法為什麼要修法就是看到這個判罪他就是適用第97條之一因為他是二審還判刑三年所以他是用了第一項他只是認定他就是毀壞\n412850\t437387\t所以我的意思是說我們主張的就是為了避免這樣子的一個情況發生所以除了我們希望刪除這種像第二項的這種主觀意圖的條款那也希望可以去新增但書就是在中華民國領域外犯本條之罪者亦適用之不曉得部長您的意見如何\n438918\t460676\t現在我們就是連過失事上也有刑罰了已經把他加進來了不會說你是說我不知道我不是故意的只要有造成破壞過失也要刑罰那主觀翻譯那個更是加重現在部分就是修法的方向就是往這個方向我們就是往這個方向讓他可以去適用這個刑法第七條\n461917\t488384\t谢谢 谢谢武林法委员谢谢所以其实我们只要咨询让他们知道说这个地下它是有这些管线的那你当然你还过去就是故意这个东西就没有什么样的所谓的有模糊空间所以我们修这个法就是一定要让它有研法然后去做一个管制那我们现在请黄国昌委员\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請部長請部長\n部長好今天有審查電業法天然氣濕業法自來水法這三個法其實我也都有提案不過我想說先來關心一下我們地方族人跟水跟電有關的陳情第一個部分就是想要請教一下因為我在上一屆剛上任立委的時候在花蓮的修林鄉有一個陳情案\n那個地方就是挨家挨戶他們都是挨著那個電塔所以在台電這邊也有一個花蓮北埔線路的一個工程有一個方案叫做嘉明村替代方案\n那當時呢其實我是拿到一個回覆他說考量地方用電需求線路最持續110年底前完成知己破信期待能夠獲得鄉親同意先以原路徑完成送電後再儘速拆除嘉明村境內的\n計設就線路 並持續進行以往山區之最終遷改路徑相關作業 那我要說的是其實嘉明村的人 大多都認同就是要把這個高壓電塔遷往山區這個是他們認同的 但是呢經過這麼多年 他們也常常問因為看不到進度 所以想了解一下相關進度是怎麼樣\n跟委員報告這個案子主要是也談了一段時間了啦那最主要就是因為路線的可能還有一些爭議啦雖然往山區這邊來移動但是需要一些溝通啦因為我們重點都是在所以我就是想要了解到底有沒有努力跟族人溝通\n一直都持續在開會經常開會嗎對 開會主要是另外一邊要移過去那邊那邊也有一些爭議在我是這樣想109年\n我不知道之前有沒有啦但是我是109年上任今天你看已經6年了那主任也常常在問所以這個部分今天就是提醒要最起碼要讓我們知道相關進度為何困難在哪裡那到底做過多少場次的溝通座談這個部分可不可以給辦公室一些資料好 詳細情形再給OK 好 謝謝\n那第二個部分因為我們原住民很多的部落都是經過兩到三次的一個集體性的遷村那我們也很慢就是設置水管那很多的部落他設置水管至今\n有的已經50年有的40年不等但是呢我們也很希望說可以趕快配合我們水公司這邊的一個管線汰換工程所以我們也積極的就民眾陳情來爭取那像去年113年以屏東來講我看到的就是我們泰安鄉的萬安還有馬家鄉的嘉義村山地門鄉的青山村還有馬家鄉的山河村\n我看到有爭取到啦但是我比較不理解的就是\n今年6月才看到台水公司的一個新聞稿說要積極推動降漏的工作那降不降漏是一回事但是我看到我們原鄉很多的那個鐵管生鏽而且是鐵管還能夠破碎生鏽到破碎那個水出來都是紅紅的其實都是急需排優先管線汰換\n我不曉得是你們的標準是怎麼樣至少我看到今年就比去年少很多所以想了解一下\n像今年我看到的就是只有來義鄉的義林村還有山地門鄉的山地村感謝委員的提示那我想水公司針對管線汰換依照我們有一些這個汰換的一個標準包括破管的頻率包括剛剛委員提到的對水質的影響我想這個部分我們都有再積極的依照我們的這個相關的標準的作業來處理\n那有關剛剛這個委員關心的這個原鄉的部分呢我們大概113年大概有辦理了六件的一個管金工程大概有1.13億的貸款的經費那這個114年的部分我們目前對啊 你們才發新聞稿所以要積極大概有五件 目前還有五件那分布在那個這個來義 山地門 春日 滿洲那我講這個部分我們一些細目的一些部分我們會跟委員做一個報告\n我只是要表達其實很多部落的管縣真的都已經歷經50年所以我希望說這個部分要考量到原鄉的一個需求好不好那最後還是再請教一下關於那個海嵐法的問題因為\n我們其實就是因為這幾年來特別是像今年就已經是海嵐斷裂已經9次所以我們就很關心這個修法的問題但是這個除了抓不勝抓 不好抓還有不好定罪的問題以這個今年8月29號這個是首度\n有針對破壞海欄的船隻及船員啟動刑事調查而且有二審判刑三年這個是中國籍的船長但是呢這也引發我們去思考就是領海之外的犯罪要如何防範\n而且定罪 所以在這邊原本刑法第三條它是指說可以適用的是領域內的犯罪或船艦或航空器所以像這種在領海之外的也許可以用刑法第四條它的結果如果是結果有在中國民國領域內的話也算領域內的犯罪但是我們就是擔心像這種沒有造成顯著災情或者是未遂那能不能夠適用\n那又或者是說像我們今天的這個自來水法為什麼要修法就是看到這個判罪他就是適用第97條之一因為他是二審還判刑三年所以他是用了第一項他只是認定他就是毀壞\n所以我的意思是說我們主張的就是為了避免這樣子的一個情況發生所以除了我們希望刪除這種像第二項的這種主觀意圖的條款那也希望可以去新增但書就是在中華民國領域外犯本條之罪者亦適用之不曉得部長您的意見如何\n現在我們就是連過失事上也有刑罰了已經把他加進來了不會說你是說我不知道我不是故意的只要有造成破壞過失也要刑罰那主觀翻譯那個更是加重現在部分就是修法的方向就是往這個方向我們就是往這個方向讓他可以去適用這個刑法第七條\n谢谢 谢谢武林法委员谢谢所以其实我们只要咨询让他们知道说这个地下它是有这些管线的那你当然你还过去就是故意这个东西就没有什么样的所谓的有模糊空间所以我们修这个法就是一定要让它有研法然后去做一个管制那我们现在请黄国昌委员\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.609 --> 00:08.813\n謝謝主席有請部長請部長\n\n00:17.058 --> 00:45.191\n部長好今天有審查電業法天然氣濕業法自來水法這三個法其實我也都有提案不過我想說先來關心一下我們地方族人跟水跟電有關的陳情第一個部分就是想要請教一下因為我在上一屆剛上任立委的時候在花蓮的修林鄉有一個陳情案\n\n00:45.951 --> 01:02.052\n那個地方就是挨家挨戶他們都是挨著那個電塔所以在台電這邊也有一個花蓮北埔線路的一個工程有一個方案叫做嘉明村替代方案\n\n01:02.632 --> 01:20.964\n那當時呢其實我是拿到一個回覆他說考量地方用電需求線路最持續110年底前完成知己破信期待能夠獲得鄉親同意先以原路徑完成送電後再儘速拆除嘉明村境內的\n\n01:22.044 --> 01:44.693\n計設就線路並持續進行以往山區之最終遷改路徑相關作業那我要說的是其實嘉明村的人大多都認同就是要把這個高壓電塔遷往山區這個是他們認同的但是呢經過這麼多年他們也常常問因為看不到進度所以想了解一下相關進度是怎麼樣\n\n01:50.184 --> 02:10.351\n跟委員報告這個案子主要是也談了一段時間了啦那最主要就是因為路線的可能還有一些爭議啦雖然往山區這邊來移動但是需要一些溝通啦因為我們重點都是在所以我就是想要了解到底有沒有努力跟族人溝通\n\n02:11.997 --> 02:22.364\n一直都持續在開會經常開會嗎對開會主要是另外一邊要移過去那邊那邊也有一些爭議在我是這樣想109年\n\n02:24.864 --> 02:48.313\n我不知道之前有沒有啦但是我是109年上任今天你看已經6年了那主任也常常在問所以這個部分今天就是提醒要最起碼要讓我們知道相關進度為何困難在哪裡那到底做過多少場次的溝通座談這個部分可不可以給辦公室一些資料好詳細情形再給OK好謝謝\n\n02:51.374 --> 03:08.123\n那第二個部分因為我們原住民很多的部落都是經過兩到三次的一個集體性的遷村那我們也很慢就是設置水管那很多的部落他設置水管至今\n\n03:08.923 --> 03:37.837\n有的已經50年有的40年不等但是呢我們也很希望說可以趕快配合我們水公司這邊的一個管線汰換工程所以我們也積極的就民眾陳情來爭取那像去年113年以屏東來講我看到的就是我們泰安鄉的萬安還有馬家鄉的嘉義村山地門鄉的青山村還有馬家鄉的山河村\n\n03:38.757 --> 03:42.624\n我看到有爭取到啦但是我比較不理解的就是\n\n03:43.669 --> 04:09.219\n今年6月才看到台水公司的一個新聞稿說要積極推動降漏的工作那降不降漏是一回事但是我看到我們原鄉很多的那個鐵管生鏽而且是鐵管還能夠破碎生鏽到破碎那個水出來都是紅紅的其實都是急需排優先管線汰換\n\n04:10.600 --> 04:19.056\n我不曉得是你們的標準是怎麼樣至少我看到今年就比去年少很多所以想了解一下\n\n04:20.427 --> 04:42.463\n像今年我看到的就是只有來義鄉的義林村還有山地門鄉的山地村感謝委員的提示那我想水公司針對管線汰換依照我們有一些這個汰換的一個標準包括破管的頻率包括剛剛委員提到的對水質的影響我想這個部分我們都有再積極的依照我們的這個相關的標準的作業來處理\n\n04:43.263 --> 04:56.753\n那有關剛剛這個委員關心的這個原鄉的部分呢我們大概113年大概有辦理了六件的一個管金工程大概有1.13億的貸款的經費那這個114年的部分我們目前對啊你們才發新聞稿所以要積極大概有五件目前還有五件那分布在那個這個來義山地門春日滿洲那我講這個部分我們一些細目的一些部分我們會跟委員做一個報告\n\n05:10.702 --> 05:25.047\n我只是要表達其實很多部落的管縣真的都已經歷經50年所以我希望說這個部分要考量到原鄉的一個需求好不好那最後還是再請教一下關於那個海嵐法的問題因為\n\n05:27.088 --> 05:46.082\n我們其實就是因為這幾年來特別是像今年就已經是海嵐斷裂已經9次所以我們就很關心這個修法的問題但是這個除了抓不勝抓不好抓還有不好定罪的問題以這個今年8月29號這個是首度\n\n05:48.604 --> 06:04.336\n有針對破壞海欄的船隻及船員啟動刑事調查而且有二審判刑三年這個是中國籍的船長但是呢這也引發我們去思考就是領海之外的犯罪要如何防範\n\n06:05.777 --> 06:34.125\n而且定罪所以在這邊原本刑法第三條它是指說可以適用的是領域內的犯罪或船艦或航空器所以像這種在領海之外的也許可以用刑法第四條它的結果如果是結果有在中國民國領域內的話也算領域內的犯罪但是我們就是擔心像這種沒有造成顯著災情或者是未遂那能不能夠適用\n\n06:35.505 --> 06:51.110\n那又或者是說像我們今天的這個自來水法為什麼要修法就是看到這個判罪他就是適用第97條之一因為他是二審還判刑三年所以他是用了第一項他只是認定他就是毀壞\n\n06:52.850 --> 07:17.387\n所以我的意思是說我們主張的就是為了避免這樣子的一個情況發生所以除了我們希望刪除這種像第二項的這種主觀意圖的條款那也希望可以去新增但書就是在中華民國領域外犯本條之罪者亦適用之不曉得部長您的意見如何\n\n07:18.918 --> 07:40.676\n現在我們就是連過失事上也有刑罰了已經把他加進來了不會說你是說我不知道我不是故意的只要有造成破壞過失也要刑罰那主觀翻譯那個更是加重現在部分就是修法的方向就是往這個方向我們就是往這個方向讓他可以去適用這個刑法第七條\n\n07:41.917 --> 08:08.384\n谢谢谢谢武林法委员谢谢所以其实我们只要咨询让他们知道说这个地下它是有这些管线的那你当然你还过去就是故意这个东西就没有什么样的所谓的有模糊空间所以我们修这个法就是一定要让它有研法然后去做一个管制那我们现在请黄国昌委员\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.609,"end":8.813,"text":"謝謝主席有請部長請部長"},{"start":17.058,"end":45.191,"text":"部長好今天有審查電業法天然氣濕業法自來水法這三個法其實我也都有提案不過我想說先來關心一下我們地方族人跟水跟電有關的陳情第一個部分就是想要請教一下因為我在上一屆剛上任立委的時候在花蓮的修林鄉有一個陳情案"},{"start":45.951,"end":62.052,"text":"那個地方就是挨家挨戶他們都是挨著那個電塔所以在台電這邊也有一個花蓮北埔線路的一個工程有一個方案叫做嘉明村替代方案"},{"start":62.632,"end":80.964,"text":"那當時呢其實我是拿到一個回覆他說考量地方用電需求線路最持續110年底前完成知己破信期待能夠獲得鄉親同意先以原路徑完成送電後再儘速拆除嘉明村境內的"},{"start":82.044,"end":104.693,"text":"計設就線路 並持續進行以往山區之最終遷改路徑相關作業 那我要說的是其實嘉明村的人 大多都認同就是要把這個高壓電塔遷往山區這個是他們認同的 但是呢經過這麼多年 他們也常常問因為看不到進度 所以想了解一下相關進度是怎麼樣"},{"start":110.184,"end":130.351,"text":"跟委員報告這個案子主要是也談了一段時間了啦那最主要就是因為路線的可能還有一些爭議啦雖然往山區這邊來移動但是需要一些溝通啦因為我們重點都是在所以我就是想要了解到底有沒有努力跟族人溝通"},{"start":131.997,"end":142.364,"text":"一直都持續在開會經常開會嗎對 開會主要是另外一邊要移過去那邊那邊也有一些爭議在我是這樣想109年"},{"start":144.864,"end":168.313,"text":"我不知道之前有沒有啦但是我是109年上任今天你看已經6年了那主任也常常在問所以這個部分今天就是提醒要最起碼要讓我們知道相關進度為何困難在哪裡那到底做過多少場次的溝通座談這個部分可不可以給辦公室一些資料好 詳細情形再給OK 好 謝謝"},{"start":171.374,"end":188.123,"text":"那第二個部分因為我們原住民很多的部落都是經過兩到三次的一個集體性的遷村那我們也很慢就是設置水管那很多的部落他設置水管至今"},{"start":188.923,"end":217.837,"text":"有的已經50年有的40年不等但是呢我們也很希望說可以趕快配合我們水公司這邊的一個管線汰換工程所以我們也積極的就民眾陳情來爭取那像去年113年以屏東來講我看到的就是我們泰安鄉的萬安還有馬家鄉的嘉義村山地門鄉的青山村還有馬家鄉的山河村"},{"start":218.757,"end":222.624,"text":"我看到有爭取到啦但是我比較不理解的就是"},{"start":223.669,"end":249.219,"text":"今年6月才看到台水公司的一個新聞稿說要積極推動降漏的工作那降不降漏是一回事但是我看到我們原鄉很多的那個鐵管生鏽而且是鐵管還能夠破碎生鏽到破碎那個水出來都是紅紅的其實都是急需排優先管線汰換"},{"start":250.6,"end":259.056,"text":"我不曉得是你們的標準是怎麼樣至少我看到今年就比去年少很多所以想了解一下"},{"start":260.427,"end":282.463,"text":"像今年我看到的就是只有來義鄉的義林村還有山地門鄉的山地村感謝委員的提示那我想水公司針對管線汰換依照我們有一些這個汰換的一個標準包括破管的頻率包括剛剛委員提到的對水質的影響我想這個部分我們都有再積極的依照我們的這個相關的標準的作業來處理"},{"start":283.263,"end":296.753,"text":"那有關剛剛這個委員關心的這個原鄉的部分呢我們大概113年大概有辦理了六件的一個管金工程大概有1.13億的貸款的經費那這個114年的部分我們目前對啊 你們才發新聞稿所以要積極大概有五件 目前還有五件那分布在那個這個來義 山地門 春日 滿洲那我講這個部分我們一些細目的一些部分我們會跟委員做一個報告"},{"start":310.702,"end":325.047,"text":"我只是要表達其實很多部落的管縣真的都已經歷經50年所以我希望說這個部分要考量到原鄉的一個需求好不好那最後還是再請教一下關於那個海嵐法的問題因為"},{"start":327.088,"end":346.082,"text":"我們其實就是因為這幾年來特別是像今年就已經是海嵐斷裂已經9次所以我們就很關心這個修法的問題但是這個除了抓不勝抓 不好抓還有不好定罪的問題以這個今年8月29號這個是首度"},{"start":348.604,"end":364.336,"text":"有針對破壞海欄的船隻及船員啟動刑事調查而且有二審判刑三年這個是中國籍的船長但是呢這也引發我們去思考就是領海之外的犯罪要如何防範"},{"start":365.777,"end":394.125,"text":"而且定罪 所以在這邊原本刑法第三條它是指說可以適用的是領域內的犯罪或船艦或航空器所以像這種在領海之外的也許可以用刑法第四條它的結果如果是結果有在中國民國領域內的話也算領域內的犯罪但是我們就是擔心像這種沒有造成顯著災情或者是未遂那能不能夠適用"},{"start":395.505,"end":411.11,"text":"那又或者是說像我們今天的這個自來水法為什麼要修法就是看到這個判罪他就是適用第97條之一因為他是二審還判刑三年所以他是用了第一項他只是認定他就是毀壞"},{"start":412.85,"end":437.387,"text":"所以我的意思是說我們主張的就是為了避免這樣子的一個情況發生所以除了我們希望刪除這種像第二項的這種主觀意圖的條款那也希望可以去新增但書就是在中華民國領域外犯本條之罪者亦適用之不曉得部長您的意見如何"},{"start":438.918,"end":460.676,"text":"現在我們就是連過失事上也有刑罰了已經把他加進來了不會說你是說我不知道我不是故意的只要有造成破壞過失也要刑罰那主觀翻譯那個更是加重現在部分就是修法的方向就是往這個方向我們就是往這個方向讓他可以去適用這個刑法第七條"},{"start":461.917,"end":488.384,"text":"谢谢 谢谢武林法委员谢谢所以其实我们只要咨询让他们知道说这个地下它是有这些管线的那你当然你还过去就是故意这个东西就没有什么样的所谓的有模糊空间所以我们修这个法就是一定要让它有研法然后去做一个管制那我们现在请黄国昌委员"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":779,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（11時22分）謝謝主席。有請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["龔部長明鑫：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好。今天有審查電業法、天然氣事業法、自來水法。這三個法，其實我也都有提案，不過我想先來關心一下，我們地方族人跟水、電有關的陳情。","第一個部分想要請教一下，我在上一屆剛剛上任立委的時候，在花蓮秀林鄉有一個陳情案，他們這地方就是挨家挨戶挨著電塔，台電這邊也有一個花蓮北埔線路的工程，叫做佳民村替代方案，當時其實我是拿到一個回復，它說考量地方用電需求，線路最遲須於110年底前完成之即迫性，期待能夠獲得鄉親同意，先以原路徑完成送電後，再儘速拆除佳民村境內的既設舊線路，並持續進行移往山區之最終遷改路徑相關作業。我要說的是，其實佳民村的人大多都認同把高壓電塔遷往山區，但是經過這麼多年，他們也常常問，因為看不到進度，所以想了解一下相關進度是怎麼樣。"],["王總經理耀庭：跟委員報告，這個案子主要也談了一段時間了。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是啊。"],["王總經理耀庭：最主要就是因為路線可能還有一些爭議，雖然往山區這邊移動，但是需要一些溝通，因為我們重點都是在爭議路線需要協調。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，所以我就是想要了解，到底有沒有努力跟族人溝通？"],["王總經理耀庭：一直都持續在開會、持續在開會。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：經常開會嗎？"],["王總經理耀庭：對，開會。主要是另外一邊，要移過去那邊也有一些爭議在。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我是這樣想喔，我不知道之前有沒有，但我是109年上任，你看已經6年了，族人也常常在問，所以今天就是提醒，最起碼要讓我們知道相關進度為何、困難在哪裡，以及到底做過多少場次的溝通座談。這個部分可不可以給辦公室一些資料？"],["王總經理耀庭：好，詳細情形再給委員辦公室。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝。第二個部分，我們原住民很多的部落都是經過兩到三次的集體性遷村，我們也很慢設置水管，很多的部落設置水管至今有的已經50年、有的10年不等，但是我們也很希望可以趕快配合水公司的管線汰換工程，所以我們也積極地就民眾陳情來爭取。像去年（113年），以屏東來講，我們泰武鄉的萬安，還有瑪家鄉的佳義村、三地門鄉的青山村、瑪家鄉的三和村，我看到有爭取到，但是我比較不理解的就是，今年6月才看到台水公司的一個新聞稿說要積極推動降漏的工作。降不降漏是一回事，但是我看到我們原鄉很多的鐵管生鏽，而且鐵管還生鏽到破碎，那個水流出來都是紅紅的，其實都急需排優先管線汰換。我不曉得你們的標準是怎麼樣，至少我看到今年就比去年少很多，今年我看到的只有來義鄉的義林村，還有三地門鄉的三地村，所以想了解一下。"],["李總經理丁來：感謝委員的提示。我想水公司針對管線汰換，依照我們汰換的標準，包括破管的頻率、包括剛剛委員提到對水質的影響，這個部分我們都有積極地依照相關標準作業來處理。有關剛剛委員關心的原鄉部分，113年大概有辦理了6件的管線工程，大概有1.13億的汰管經費，114年的部分目前……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對啊，你們才發新聞稿說要積極，結果就變少了。"],["李總經理丁來：目前大概有5件，分布在來義、三地門、春日、滿州，我想一些細目的部分，我們會跟委員報告。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，我只是要表達，其實很多部落的管線真的都已經歷經50年，所以我希望這個部分要考量到原鄉的需求，好不好？","最後還是再請教一下關於海纜法的問題。其實這幾年來，特別是像今年海纜斷裂就已經9次，所以我們就很關心這個修法的問題，除了抓不勝抓、不好抓，還有不好定罪的問題。今年8月29日首度針對破壞海纜的船隻及船員啟動刑事調查，而且二審判刑3年，這個是中國籍的船長，這也引發我們思考領海之外的犯罪要如何防範而且定罪。在這邊原本刑法第三條是指說可以適用領域內的犯罪，或在領域外之中華民國船艦或航空器內犯罪，所以像這種在領海之外的也許可以用刑法第四條，如果它的結果有在中華民國領域內的話也算領域內的犯罪。但是我們就是擔心像這種沒有造成顯著災情或者是未遂的情況能不能夠適用，又或者是像今天自來水法為什麼要修法？就是看到這個判決，他就是適用第九十七條之一，因為他二審仍判刑三年，所以他是用了第一項，認定他就是毀壞。我們主張的就是為了避免這樣的情況發生，除了希望刪除像第二項的這種主觀意圖的條款，也希望可以新增但書，就是在中華民國領域外犯本條之罪者，亦適用之，不曉得部長的意見如何？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，現在我們就是連過失也有刑罰了，已經把它加進來了，不會因為他說我不知道、我不是故意的……只要有造成破壞，就算是過失也要有刑罰。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對。"],["龔部長明鑫：有主觀犯意的話更是加重，現在修法的方向就是往這個方向。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是，我們就是往這個方向，讓他可以去適用刑法第七條。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員，我們只要資訊公開，讓他們知道這裡的地下是有這些管線的，你還過去，當然就是故意，這個東西就沒有什麼樣的模糊空間，所以我們修這個法，就是一定要有嚴法，並去做一個管制。","現在請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-8","speakers":["陳亭妃","羅美玲","邱議瑩","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","呂玉玲","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","楊瓊瓔","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","賴士葆","葉元之","徐欣瑩","王鴻薇","鄭正鈐","黃捷","張嘉郡","林楚茵","陳超明"],"page_start":333,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員王美\n惠等20人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人擬具「電\n業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具\n「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「電業法第七十一\n條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草\n案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院\n委員黃捷等22人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬\n具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等21人擬具「電業法第七十\n一條之一條文修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修\n正草案」案；二、審查： ( 一) 行政院函請審議「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案、(二)本院委員王美惠等20人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本\n院委員李坤城等18人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗\n華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本\n院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美\n玲等19人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬\n具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「天然氣事\n業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十\n五條之一條文修正草案」案、(十)本院委員邱鎮軍等24人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(十一)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」\n案；三、審查：(一)行政院函請審議「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委\n員王美惠等19人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員李坤城等18人\n擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(四)本院委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等\n16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(五)本院委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「自來\n水法第三條、第十六條之一及第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(六)本院委員羅美玲等19人擬\n具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員賴惠員等21人擬具「自來水法第\n九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、(八)本院委員黃捷等22人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文\n修正草案」案、(九)本院委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案、\n(十)本院委員吳沛憶等16人擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」案（合併詢答）","agenda_id":"1148901_00007"}}}