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{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 649.177, \"end\": 649.197, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,437 --> 00:00:07,362\n好謝謝這個主席我們一樣請交通部陳思凱部長陳部長請\n\n2\n00:00:20,285 --> 00:00:47,820\n部長我想兩週前我們交通委員會有讓台中來考察我們台中的捷運綠線延伸段的部分那當時當然我本席的立場當然是希望說我們所謂延伸到大坑這段可以優先來做那當時在這個會議中這個部長你也提到說因為這延伸段分為南段跟北段那所以在送建的時候因為南邊涉及到彰化的都市計畫所以說台中在送建的時候可以把它直接分成南段跟北段\n\n3\n00:00:48,320 --> 00:01:17,157\n但是我回來之後我們查了一下包含說過去台中的三海環線一開始送出去的時候是完整的計畫但是後來交通部意見一樣把它拆成由交通部來拆拆成三個計畫分成三線海線加後線那台中的當初的整個屯區捷運的延伸線整個環狀線的部分後來也是依據交通部意見拆成了紫線跟藍線的延伸段那像高雄的岡山路竹線也是依據國防意見一開始也是整個送進去後來也是由國防院核定拆成兩地段進行\n\n4\n00:01:17,737 --> 00:01:47,077\n那我今天在這邊跟部長就教是說今天這些計劃一開始地方送上去都是完整的那這一次其實是按照我們的捷運延伸線原先的計劃當然也希望是能夠完整的送進去來審也希望能夠完整的整段來通過但是因為就如同我所說因為這個光是過去這些屬於同一個地方政府同一個城市它的這個捷運建設它的這些鐵路建設它都會有可能因為計劃其成因為經費管理被拆分\n\n5\n00:01:47,737 --> 00:02:17,271\n那像這個台中這個綠線捷運延伸線它是橫跨兩個城市彰化縣跟台中市那彰化縣裡面又涉及到他們彰化市的問題所以等於同時間有三個地方政府會面對這個問題那我據我所知像去年今年初今年二月的時候我們這個內政部也又把張東擴大都市計畫又退回了一次嘛所以等於現在這個東西又沒有進度所以對我來講或對交通部來講我的問題我們的尷尬點在於說對台中市政府我們要送出去我們當然希望一次來做完\n\n6\n00:02:17,751 --> 00:02:36,008\n可是因為這個什麼都市計畫這個都需要送內政部審都需要說中央來會來審但如果最後在中央這邊被退回的話地方來不及處理嘛所以要問說這個部分到時候這個細部到底我們是由我們猜還是到時候是送上去一次送上去之後由交通部來大家一起來\n\n7\n00:02:37,009 --> 00:03:03,969\n決定到底怎麼處理這部分跟委員報告都市計畫的部分交通部大概也幫不上忙啦他那個進度可能要自己去抓張東的部分要彰化縣政府他們自己去抓那另外對於拆分的部分委員剛剛有提到一個很關鍵的議題就是說他們都是整體各個地方都是整體送上來然後由國發會去建議他們你們要不要拆開大概是這樣或者是由我們交通部來建議他要不要拆開\n\n8\n00:03:04,750 --> 00:03:28,351\n所以對地方政府來說他還是要整個送上來那我們可以出建議建議他拆但是實際上要不要拆的這個動作都還是地方政府必須要去做所以我們在計畫那我把明確一點當初那天會刊的時候沒有講得很明確如果把明確一點有個記錄所以地方政府這次要送所謂的明年初要送綜合規劃一樣是把整個綠線延伸送上來\n\n9\n00:03:29,372 --> 00:03:53,861\n那看都市計劃有沒有趕上嘛讓他趕上我們就好大家一起台中彰化交通部一起合趕上當然就沒有問題嘛那如果沒趕上就沒趕上你們就會給建議嘛建議他們拆啦好OK那這樣沒問題喔但是拆不拆的決定權還是在地方政府自己的決定權沒關係這個是反正到時候就是你們會建議嘛建議建議不建議拆或不拆是交通部的權限還是台中市的權限\n\n10\n00:03:55,253 --> 00:04:12,283\n我們可提也可不提啦但是就是台中市政府這邊要想要拆他再來請我們給他建議拆這是可以的當然這是客觀事實啦我們沒有想要拆啦但是如果如果沒有想要拆那我們就不會建議他要拆啦都市計畫但是我有講那個都市計畫如果最後還是沒有沒有進度那\n\n11\n00:04:13,203 --> 00:04:32,422\n那台中市政府要去做決定啦好因為這個決定權都還是在地方政府他們要自己做決定因為還是回到那天我們考察的時候我跟委員報告的那個觀念那個捷運系統的建制是地方自己辦的事項那中央只是一個協助的角色好沒問題這個部長接下來下一題這個\n\n12\n00:04:34,076 --> 00:04:54,902\n我想我只能關注我們部長上任之後的這些一言一行你去年9月2號上任的時候不久你就來到台中視察台鐵的這個站台說要來幫我們裝這個設置相關的這些安全的這些閘門等等的那目前為止在目前以高雄車站的事辦算是要開始來做了明年3月對那台中\n\n13\n00:04:55,982 --> 00:05:23,631\n因為你去年說要讓台中來做那目前好像只聞部長說但是相關計畫跟委員報告因為我們高雄是第一個事辦的站我們要確定這樣子的系統是可運行的而且是安全而且適合台鐵如果確定之後我們就會開始去推展到各個車站尤其是人數比較多的那台中車站我自己也在那邊搭車好幾次在上去的時候確實發現假日的時候人潮蠻擁擠\n\n14\n00:05:24,451 --> 00:05:48,401\n然後粵台其實是相對擁擠的所以台中站應該到時候也會列為我們優先要設置這個所謂的粵台閘門的這個站體之一那個評定標準就是說因為現在是等高雄現在你所謂示範先看對我要先示範一段時間確定系統是穩定可行的那我想問問部長到時候現階段因為現在選高雄市所謂的示範那其他城市\n\n15\n00:05:49,662 --> 00:06:02,495\n平定標準你是要等到高雄的事辦的結果現在現階段我們可以來看說哪些站點哪些大站或小站來決定要不要裝設這樣的東西台鐵開始評估了嗎是不是請台鐵董事長好沒問題\n\n16\n00:06:03,291 --> 00:06:27,646\n我想我們會選這個高雄就是說這個月台門的設計因為台鐵的車種太多了所以它的這個做法就不像高鐵一樣就是說你可以疑似要鎖所有的車站都一樣那所以我們在這個情況之下我們就是先看哪一種方式看高雄現在這個方式是不是適合我們台鐵的部分\n\n17\n00:06:28,146 --> 00:06:52,035\n那至於說人潮的需要那當然我們現在開始已經開始評估說哪些是需要做月台門的我具體建議跟部長跟董事長來報告包含說過去當然曾經發生過意外的我們的五泉站跟太原站這是發生過事件的那如果從人潮來看松竹站松竹站他的人潮從去年到今年提升了20%\n\n18\n00:06:53,556 --> 00:07:16,872\n所以它其實人潮是增加因為它整個重劃區的關係所以人都變多所以像這種人潮明顯增加那因為它本來不是什麼A級站不是一級站它自己屬於小型的地方站本來是這樣一開始像什麼松竹那麼太原這些五泉你應該很清楚都只是區間車理論上停的小站但是因為它現在隨著人口成長它變成像是大家把當年捷運在做我想這也是交通部樂見的事情\n\n19\n00:07:17,512 --> 00:07:27,968\n當然捷運在做之後讓人潮提升非常多所以未來是不是可以把它像這些本來的小站也能夠因為人潮提升之後來把它裝設所謂的樂台有沒有機會這樣往這方向來思考\n\n20\n00:07:28,715 --> 00:07:47,087\n跟委員報告這個人潮的隨著人口的成長那旅客的這個成長的因素的話我們會列為考慮之一好董事長謝謝那接下來在今天主題當然要討論一下安全問題這個我們回顧一下其實每次遇到重大事故就還要見景率所以從108年114年113年每一次\n\n21\n00:07:49,929 --> 00:08:06,737\n我想歷史許多新聞只要看到了台鐵或者是我們的這種公共運輸出問題的時候就會喊建請率建請率建請率但是實際上我們看這個預算當然這不歸你們不全然是你們的問題這個警察的部分缺額比例\n\n22\n00:08:08,130 --> 00:08:33,828\n預算原額是910人但現有原額是726人當然這是隔壁內政委員會的問題但是這實際上每次說要喊建警率提升但實際上真正的警察有提升嗎沒有所以在安全的措施上面我覺得這個部分台鐵或是交通部有沒有什麼做法除了建警率提升之外到底要怎麼做或是你們要怎麼去跟內政部協調是警察要增加呢還是有其他的措施可以改變這個部分改定這個部分\n\n23\n00:08:34,697 --> 00:08:47,564\n當然長期來說跟內政部來爭取這個鐵路警察的員額的增加或者是實際派遣人力的增加這個我們當然會持續來拜託跟要求那另外針對關鍵基礎設施我們也會專案來跟內政部來請求這個專案的警力\n\n24\n00:08:52,327 --> 00:09:17,740\n那第三就是說或許保全的人力能夠更快速的來補充也是一種方案那我也請台鐵公司開始再做研議我們針對保全人力的部分有沒有可能來增加部長您再看一下就是說我提供一個資料就是你們我們去要資料從1月1今天5月22號因為台鐵這個玉里花蓮區間車發生這個旅客攻擊列車事件所以當你們提出一些這個加強護車的勤務\n\n25\n00:09:19,961 --> 00:09:46,622\n那確實從4月到5月4月開始到5月5月到6月6月到7月7月到8月8月到9月底都有相關紀錄就是這個專案進行了大概半年左右但是928之後這個專案好像就停止了那我要講什麼就是說發生重大社會事件台鐵很積極我會馬上請大家來協情提升見景率可是這個專案結束了之後又回到正常\n\n26\n00:09:47,608 --> 00:10:06,715\n好像是會讓一些有心人士或者說只能假設這個不定時炸彈有機可乘所以我們希望說如果在事件發生的當下見景率能夠提升你護車班次能夠提高那平常是到底是人地不足的問題還是什麼問題我覺得這部分是整個交通部跟內政部要一起去檢討可以嗎好我們一起來檢討董事長要回應嗎\n\n27\n00:10:11,604 --> 00:10:27,834\n我想這個提高鑑定力的我們最近跟這個鐵警局這邊有一個非常好的一個這個共識就是說他們要用跨區跨域好來這個執行他情味就是說如果他到了台中以後他可以往前\n\n28\n00:10:28,695 --> 00:10:49,197\n往下一個他的這個非轄區的部分去做那這樣的話所以我們現在跨車的這個每週是有439人已經增加到687人那每週的這個車次也由453次增加到700人700個車次所以有大幅的增加好董事長謝謝部長謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4437\t7362\t好謝謝這個主席我們一樣請交通部陳思凱部長陳部長請\n20285\t47820\t部長我想兩週前我們交通委員會有讓台中來考察我們台中的捷運綠線延伸段的部分那當時當然我本席的立場當然是希望說我們所謂延伸到大坑這段可以優先來做那當時在這個會議中這個部長你也提到說因為這延伸段分為南段跟北段那所以在送建的時候因為南邊涉及到彰化的都市計畫所以說台中在送建的時候可以把它直接分成南段跟北段\n48320\t77157\t但是我回來之後我們查了一下包含說過去台中的三海環線一開始送出去的時候是完整的計畫但是後來交通部意見一樣把它拆成由交通部來拆拆成三個計畫分成三線海線加後線那台中的當初的整個屯區捷運的延伸線整個環狀線的部分後來也是依據交通部意見拆成了紫線跟藍線的延伸段那像高雄的岡山路竹線也是依據國防意見一開始也是整個送進去後來也是由國防院核定拆成兩地段進行\n77737\t107077\t那我今天在這邊跟部長就教是說今天這些計劃一開始地方送上去都是完整的那這一次其實是按照我們的捷運延伸線原先的計劃當然也希望是能夠完整的送進去來審也希望能夠完整的整段來通過但是因為就如同我所說因為這個光是過去這些屬於同一個地方政府同一個城市它的這個捷運建設它的這些鐵路建設它都會有可能因為計劃其成因為經費管理被拆分\n107737\t137271\t那像這個台中這個綠線捷運延伸線它是橫跨兩個城市彰化縣跟台中市那彰化縣裡面又涉及到他們彰化市的問題所以等於同時間有三個地方政府會面對這個問題那我據我所知像去年今年初今年二月的時候我們這個內政部也又把張東擴大都市計畫又退回了一次嘛所以等於現在這個東西又沒有進度所以對我來講或對交通部來講我的問題我們的尷尬點在於說對台中市政府我們要送出去我們當然希望一次來做完\n137751\t156008\t可是因為這個什麼都市計畫這個都需要送內政部審都需要說中央來會來審但如果最後在中央這邊被退回的話地方來不及處理嘛所以要問說這個部分到時候這個細部到底我們是由我們猜還是到時候是送上去一次送上去之後由交通部來大家一起來\n157009\t183969\t決定到底怎麼處理這部分跟委員報告都市計畫的部分交通部大概也幫不上忙啦他那個進度可能要自己去抓張東的部分要彰化縣政府他們自己去抓那另外對於拆分的部分委員剛剛有提到一個很關鍵的議題就是說他們都是整體各個地方都是整體送上來然後由國發會去建議他們你們要不要拆開大概是這樣或者是由我們交通部來建議他要不要拆開\n184750\t208351\t所以對地方政府來說他還是要整個送上來那我們可以出建議建議他拆但是實際上要不要拆的這個動作都還是地方政府必須要去做所以我們在計畫那我把明確一點當初那天會刊的時候沒有講得很明確如果把明確一點有個記錄所以地方政府這次要送所謂的明年初要送綜合規劃一樣是把整個綠線延伸送上來\n209372\t233861\t那看都市計劃有沒有趕上嘛讓他趕上我們就好大家一起台中彰化交通部一起合趕上當然就沒有問題嘛那如果沒趕上就沒趕上你們就會給建議嘛建議他們拆啦好OK那這樣沒問題喔但是拆不拆的決定權還是在地方政府自己的決定權沒關係這個是反正到時候就是你們會建議嘛建議建議不建議拆或不拆是交通部的權限還是台中市的權限\n235253\t252283\t我們可提也可不提啦但是就是台中市政府這邊要想要拆他再來請我們給他建議拆這是可以的當然這是客觀事實啦我們沒有想要拆啦但是如果如果沒有想要拆那我們就不會建議他要拆啦都市計畫但是我有講那個都市計畫如果最後還是沒有 沒有進度那\n253203\t272422\t那台中市政府要去做決定啦好因為這個決定權都還是在地方政府他們要自己做決定因為還是回到那天我們考察的時候我跟委員報告的那個觀念那個捷運系統的建制是地方自己辦的事項那中央只是一個協助的角色好沒問題這個部長接下來下一題這個\n274076\t294902\t我想我只能關注我們部長上任之後的這些一言一行你去年9月2號上任的時候不久你就來到台中視察台鐵的這個站台說要來幫我們裝這個設置相關的這些安全的這些閘門等等的那目前為止在目前以高雄車站的事辦算是要開始來做了明年3月對 那台中\n295982\t323631\t因為你去年說要讓台中來做那目前好像只聞部長說但是相關計畫跟委員報告因為我們高雄是第一個事辦的站我們要確定這樣子的系統是可運行的而且是安全而且適合台鐵如果確定之後我們就會開始去推展到各個車站尤其是人數比較多的那台中車站我自己也在那邊搭車好幾次在上去的時候確實發現假日的時候人潮蠻擁擠\n324451\t348401\t然後粵台其實是相對擁擠的所以台中站應該到時候也會列為我們優先要設置這個所謂的粵台閘門的這個站體之一那個評定標準就是說因為現在是等高雄現在你所謂示範先看對我要先示範一段時間確定系統是穩定可行的那我想問問部長到時候現階段因為現在選高雄市所謂的示範那其他城市\n349662\t362495\t平定標準你是要等到高雄的事辦的結果現在現階段我們可以來看說哪些站點哪些大站或小站來決定要不要裝設這樣的東西台鐵開始評估了嗎是不是請台鐵董事長好沒問題\n363291\t387646\t我想我們會選這個高雄就是說這個月台門的設計因為台鐵的車種太多了所以它的這個做法就不像高鐵一樣就是說你可以疑似要鎖所有的車站都一樣那所以我們在這個情況之下我們就是先看哪一種方式看高雄現在這個方式是不是適合我們台鐵的部分\n388146\t412035\t那至於說人潮的需要那當然我們現在開始已經開始評估說哪些是需要做月台門的我具體建議跟部長跟董事長來報告包含說過去當然曾經發生過意外的我們的五泉站跟太原站這是發生過事件的那如果從人潮來看松竹站松竹站他的人潮從去年到今年提升了20%\n413556\t436872\t所以它其實人潮是增加因為它整個重劃區的關係所以人都變多所以像這種人潮明顯增加那因為它本來不是什麼A級站不是一級站它自己屬於小型的地方站本來是這樣一開始像什麼松竹那麼太原這些五泉你應該很清楚都只是區間車理論上停的小站但是因為它現在隨著人口成長它變成像是大家把當年捷運在做我想這也是交通部樂見的事情\n437512\t447968\t當然捷運在做之後讓人潮提升非常多所以未來是不是可以把它像這些本來的小站也能夠因為人潮提升之後來把它裝設所謂的樂台有沒有機會這樣往這方向來思考\n448715\t467087\t跟委員報告這個人潮的隨著人口的成長那旅客的這個成長的因素的話我們會列為考慮之一好董事長謝謝那接下來在今天主題當然要討論一下安全問題這個我們回顧一下其實每次遇到重大事故就還要見景率所以從108年114年113年每一次\n469929\t486737\t我想歷史許多新聞只要看到了台鐵或者是我們的這種公共運輸出問題的時候就會喊建請率建請率建請率但是實際上我們看這個預算當然這不歸你們不全然是你們的問題這個警察的部分缺額比例\n488130\t513828\t預算原額是910人 但現有原額是726人當然這是隔壁內政委員會的問題 但是這實際上每次說要喊建警率提升 但實際上真正的警察有提升嗎 沒有所以在安全的措施上面 我覺得這個部分台鐵或是交通部有沒有什麼做法 除了建警率提升之外到底要怎麼做 或是你們要怎麼去跟內政部協調是警察要增加呢 還是有其他的措施可以改變這個部分 改定這個部分\n514697\t527564\t當然長期來說跟內政部來爭取這個鐵路警察的員額的增加或者是實際派遣人力的增加這個我們當然會持續來拜託跟要求那另外針對關鍵基礎設施我們也會專案來跟內政部來請求這個專案的警力\n532327\t557740\t那第三就是說或許保全的人力能夠更快速的來補充也是一種方案那我也請台鐵公司開始再做研議我們針對保全人力的部分有沒有可能來增加部長您再看一下就是說我提供一個資料就是你們我們去要資料從1月1今天5月22號因為台鐵這個玉里花蓮區間車發生這個旅客攻擊列車事件所以當你們提出一些這個加強護車的勤務\n559961\t586622\t那確實從4月到5月4月開始到5月5月到6月6月到7月7月到8月8月到9月底都有相關紀錄就是這個專案進行了大概半年左右但是928之後這個專案好像就停止了那我要講什麼就是說發生重大社會事件台鐵很積極我會馬上請大家來協情提升見景率可是這個專案結束了之後又回到正常\n587608\t606715\t好像是會讓一些有心人士或者說只能假設這個不定時炸彈有機可乘所以我們希望說如果在事件發生的當下見景率能夠提升你護車班次能夠提高那平常是到底是人地不足的問題還是什麼問題我覺得這部分是整個交通部跟內政部要一起去檢討可以嗎好我們一起來檢討董事長要回應嗎\n611604\t627834\t我想這個提高鑑定力的我們最近跟這個鐵警局這邊有一個非常好的一個這個共識就是說他們要用跨區跨域好來這個執行他情味就是說如果他到了台中以後他可以往前\n628695\t649197\t往下一個他的這個非轄區的部分去做那這樣的話所以我們現在跨車的這個每週是有439人已經增加到687人那每週的這個車次也由453次增加到700人700個車次所以有大幅的增加好 董事長謝謝 部長謝謝謝謝委員\n","txt":"好謝謝這個主席我們一樣請交通部陳思凱部長陳部長請\n部長我想兩週前我們交通委員會有讓台中來考察我們台中的捷運綠線延伸段的部分那當時當然我本席的立場當然是希望說我們所謂延伸到大坑這段可以優先來做那當時在這個會議中這個部長你也提到說因為這延伸段分為南段跟北段那所以在送建的時候因為南邊涉及到彰化的都市計畫所以說台中在送建的時候可以把它直接分成南段跟北段\n但是我回來之後我們查了一下包含說過去台中的三海環線一開始送出去的時候是完整的計畫但是後來交通部意見一樣把它拆成由交通部來拆拆成三個計畫分成三線海線加後線那台中的當初的整個屯區捷運的延伸線整個環狀線的部分後來也是依據交通部意見拆成了紫線跟藍線的延伸段那像高雄的岡山路竹線也是依據國防意見一開始也是整個送進去後來也是由國防院核定拆成兩地段進行\n那我今天在這邊跟部長就教是說今天這些計劃一開始地方送上去都是完整的那這一次其實是按照我們的捷運延伸線原先的計劃當然也希望是能夠完整的送進去來審也希望能夠完整的整段來通過但是因為就如同我所說因為這個光是過去這些屬於同一個地方政府同一個城市它的這個捷運建設它的這些鐵路建設它都會有可能因為計劃其成因為經費管理被拆分\n那像這個台中這個綠線捷運延伸線它是橫跨兩個城市彰化縣跟台中市那彰化縣裡面又涉及到他們彰化市的問題所以等於同時間有三個地方政府會面對這個問題那我據我所知像去年今年初今年二月的時候我們這個內政部也又把張東擴大都市計畫又退回了一次嘛所以等於現在這個東西又沒有進度所以對我來講或對交通部來講我的問題我們的尷尬點在於說對台中市政府我們要送出去我們當然希望一次來做完\n可是因為這個什麼都市計畫這個都需要送內政部審都需要說中央來會來審但如果最後在中央這邊被退回的話地方來不及處理嘛所以要問說這個部分到時候這個細部到底我們是由我們猜還是到時候是送上去一次送上去之後由交通部來大家一起來\n決定到底怎麼處理這部分跟委員報告都市計畫的部分交通部大概也幫不上忙啦他那個進度可能要自己去抓張東的部分要彰化縣政府他們自己去抓那另外對於拆分的部分委員剛剛有提到一個很關鍵的議題就是說他們都是整體各個地方都是整體送上來然後由國發會去建議他們你們要不要拆開大概是這樣或者是由我們交通部來建議他要不要拆開\n所以對地方政府來說他還是要整個送上來那我們可以出建議建議他拆但是實際上要不要拆的這個動作都還是地方政府必須要去做所以我們在計畫那我把明確一點當初那天會刊的時候沒有講得很明確如果把明確一點有個記錄所以地方政府這次要送所謂的明年初要送綜合規劃一樣是把整個綠線延伸送上來\n那看都市計劃有沒有趕上嘛讓他趕上我們就好大家一起台中彰化交通部一起合趕上當然就沒有問題嘛那如果沒趕上就沒趕上你們就會給建議嘛建議他們拆啦好OK那這樣沒問題喔但是拆不拆的決定權還是在地方政府自己的決定權沒關係這個是反正到時候就是你們會建議嘛建議建議不建議拆或不拆是交通部的權限還是台中市的權限\n我們可提也可不提啦但是就是台中市政府這邊要想要拆他再來請我們給他建議拆這是可以的當然這是客觀事實啦我們沒有想要拆啦但是如果如果沒有想要拆那我們就不會建議他要拆啦都市計畫但是我有講那個都市計畫如果最後還是沒有 沒有進度那\n那台中市政府要去做決定啦好因為這個決定權都還是在地方政府他們要自己做決定因為還是回到那天我們考察的時候我跟委員報告的那個觀念那個捷運系統的建制是地方自己辦的事項那中央只是一個協助的角色好沒問題這個部長接下來下一題這個\n我想我只能關注我們部長上任之後的這些一言一行你去年9月2號上任的時候不久你就來到台中視察台鐵的這個站台說要來幫我們裝這個設置相關的這些安全的這些閘門等等的那目前為止在目前以高雄車站的事辦算是要開始來做了明年3月對 那台中\n因為你去年說要讓台中來做那目前好像只聞部長說但是相關計畫跟委員報告因為我們高雄是第一個事辦的站我們要確定這樣子的系統是可運行的而且是安全而且適合台鐵如果確定之後我們就會開始去推展到各個車站尤其是人數比較多的那台中車站我自己也在那邊搭車好幾次在上去的時候確實發現假日的時候人潮蠻擁擠\n然後粵台其實是相對擁擠的所以台中站應該到時候也會列為我們優先要設置這個所謂的粵台閘門的這個站體之一那個評定標準就是說因為現在是等高雄現在你所謂示範先看對我要先示範一段時間確定系統是穩定可行的那我想問問部長到時候現階段因為現在選高雄市所謂的示範那其他城市\n平定標準你是要等到高雄的事辦的結果現在現階段我們可以來看說哪些站點哪些大站或小站來決定要不要裝設這樣的東西台鐵開始評估了嗎是不是請台鐵董事長好沒問題\n我想我們會選這個高雄就是說這個月台門的設計因為台鐵的車種太多了所以它的這個做法就不像高鐵一樣就是說你可以疑似要鎖所有的車站都一樣那所以我們在這個情況之下我們就是先看哪一種方式看高雄現在這個方式是不是適合我們台鐵的部分\n那至於說人潮的需要那當然我們現在開始已經開始評估說哪些是需要做月台門的我具體建議跟部長跟董事長來報告包含說過去當然曾經發生過意外的我們的五泉站跟太原站這是發生過事件的那如果從人潮來看松竹站松竹站他的人潮從去年到今年提升了20%\n所以它其實人潮是增加因為它整個重劃區的關係所以人都變多所以像這種人潮明顯增加那因為它本來不是什麼A級站不是一級站它自己屬於小型的地方站本來是這樣一開始像什麼松竹那麼太原這些五泉你應該很清楚都只是區間車理論上停的小站但是因為它現在隨著人口成長它變成像是大家把當年捷運在做我想這也是交通部樂見的事情\n當然捷運在做之後讓人潮提升非常多所以未來是不是可以把它像這些本來的小站也能夠因為人潮提升之後來把它裝設所謂的樂台有沒有機會這樣往這方向來思考\n跟委員報告這個人潮的隨著人口的成長那旅客的這個成長的因素的話我們會列為考慮之一好董事長謝謝那接下來在今天主題當然要討論一下安全問題這個我們回顧一下其實每次遇到重大事故就還要見景率所以從108年114年113年每一次\n我想歷史許多新聞只要看到了台鐵或者是我們的這種公共運輸出問題的時候就會喊建請率建請率建請率但是實際上我們看這個預算當然這不歸你們不全然是你們的問題這個警察的部分缺額比例\n預算原額是910人 但現有原額是726人當然這是隔壁內政委員會的問題 但是這實際上每次說要喊建警率提升 但實際上真正的警察有提升嗎 沒有所以在安全的措施上面 我覺得這個部分台鐵或是交通部有沒有什麼做法 除了建警率提升之外到底要怎麼做 或是你們要怎麼去跟內政部協調是警察要增加呢 還是有其他的措施可以改變這個部分 改定這個部分\n當然長期來說跟內政部來爭取這個鐵路警察的員額的增加或者是實際派遣人力的增加這個我們當然會持續來拜託跟要求那另外針對關鍵基礎設施我們也會專案來跟內政部來請求這個專案的警力\n那第三就是說或許保全的人力能夠更快速的來補充也是一種方案那我也請台鐵公司開始再做研議我們針對保全人力的部分有沒有可能來增加部長您再看一下就是說我提供一個資料就是你們我們去要資料從1月1今天5月22號因為台鐵這個玉里花蓮區間車發生這個旅客攻擊列車事件所以當你們提出一些這個加強護車的勤務\n那確實從4月到5月4月開始到5月5月到6月6月到7月7月到8月8月到9月底都有相關紀錄就是這個專案進行了大概半年左右但是928之後這個專案好像就停止了那我要講什麼就是說發生重大社會事件台鐵很積極我會馬上請大家來協情提升見景率可是這個專案結束了之後又回到正常\n好像是會讓一些有心人士或者說只能假設這個不定時炸彈有機可乘所以我們希望說如果在事件發生的當下見景率能夠提升你護車班次能夠提高那平常是到底是人地不足的問題還是什麼問題我覺得這部分是整個交通部跟內政部要一起去檢討可以嗎好我們一起來檢討董事長要回應嗎\n我想這個提高鑑定力的我們最近跟這個鐵警局這邊有一個非常好的一個這個共識就是說他們要用跨區跨域好來這個執行他情味就是說如果他到了台中以後他可以往前\n往下一個他的這個非轄區的部分去做那這樣的話所以我們現在跨車的這個每週是有439人已經增加到687人那每週的這個車次也由453次增加到700人700個車次所以有大幅的增加好 董事長謝謝 部長謝謝謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.437 --> 00:07.362\n好謝謝這個主席我們一樣請交通部陳思凱部長陳部長請\n\n00:20.285 --> 00:47.820\n部長我想兩週前我們交通委員會有讓台中來考察我們台中的捷運綠線延伸段的部分那當時當然我本席的立場當然是希望說我們所謂延伸到大坑這段可以優先來做那當時在這個會議中這個部長你也提到說因為這延伸段分為南段跟北段那所以在送建的時候因為南邊涉及到彰化的都市計畫所以說台中在送建的時候可以把它直接分成南段跟北段\n\n00:48.320 --> 01:17.157\n但是我回來之後我們查了一下包含說過去台中的三海環線一開始送出去的時候是完整的計畫但是後來交通部意見一樣把它拆成由交通部來拆拆成三個計畫分成三線海線加後線那台中的當初的整個屯區捷運的延伸線整個環狀線的部分後來也是依據交通部意見拆成了紫線跟藍線的延伸段那像高雄的岡山路竹線也是依據國防意見一開始也是整個送進去後來也是由國防院核定拆成兩地段進行\n\n01:17.737 --> 01:47.077\n那我今天在這邊跟部長就教是說今天這些計劃一開始地方送上去都是完整的那這一次其實是按照我們的捷運延伸線原先的計劃當然也希望是能夠完整的送進去來審也希望能夠完整的整段來通過但是因為就如同我所說因為這個光是過去這些屬於同一個地方政府同一個城市它的這個捷運建設它的這些鐵路建設它都會有可能因為計劃其成因為經費管理被拆分\n\n01:47.737 --> 02:17.271\n那像這個台中這個綠線捷運延伸線它是橫跨兩個城市彰化縣跟台中市那彰化縣裡面又涉及到他們彰化市的問題所以等於同時間有三個地方政府會面對這個問題那我據我所知像去年今年初今年二月的時候我們這個內政部也又把張東擴大都市計畫又退回了一次嘛所以等於現在這個東西又沒有進度所以對我來講或對交通部來講我的問題我們的尷尬點在於說對台中市政府我們要送出去我們當然希望一次來做完\n\n02:17.751 --> 02:36.008\n可是因為這個什麼都市計畫這個都需要送內政部審都需要說中央來會來審但如果最後在中央這邊被退回的話地方來不及處理嘛所以要問說這個部分到時候這個細部到底我們是由我們猜還是到時候是送上去一次送上去之後由交通部來大家一起來\n\n02:37.009 --> 03:03.969\n決定到底怎麼處理這部分跟委員報告都市計畫的部分交通部大概也幫不上忙啦他那個進度可能要自己去抓張東的部分要彰化縣政府他們自己去抓那另外對於拆分的部分委員剛剛有提到一個很關鍵的議題就是說他們都是整體各個地方都是整體送上來然後由國發會去建議他們你們要不要拆開大概是這樣或者是由我們交通部來建議他要不要拆開\n\n03:04.750 --> 03:28.351\n所以對地方政府來說他還是要整個送上來那我們可以出建議建議他拆但是實際上要不要拆的這個動作都還是地方政府必須要去做所以我們在計畫那我把明確一點當初那天會刊的時候沒有講得很明確如果把明確一點有個記錄所以地方政府這次要送所謂的明年初要送綜合規劃一樣是把整個綠線延伸送上來\n\n03:29.372 --> 03:53.861\n那看都市計劃有沒有趕上嘛讓他趕上我們就好大家一起台中彰化交通部一起合趕上當然就沒有問題嘛那如果沒趕上就沒趕上你們就會給建議嘛建議他們拆啦好OK那這樣沒問題喔但是拆不拆的決定權還是在地方政府自己的決定權沒關係這個是反正到時候就是你們會建議嘛建議建議不建議拆或不拆是交通部的權限還是台中市的權限\n\n03:55.253 --> 04:12.283\n我們可提也可不提啦但是就是台中市政府這邊要想要拆他再來請我們給他建議拆這是可以的當然這是客觀事實啦我們沒有想要拆啦但是如果如果沒有想要拆那我們就不會建議他要拆啦都市計畫但是我有講那個都市計畫如果最後還是沒有沒有進度那\n\n04:13.203 --> 04:32.422\n那台中市政府要去做決定啦好因為這個決定權都還是在地方政府他們要自己做決定因為還是回到那天我們考察的時候我跟委員報告的那個觀念那個捷運系統的建制是地方自己辦的事項那中央只是一個協助的角色好沒問題這個部長接下來下一題這個\n\n04:34.076 --> 04:54.902\n我想我只能關注我們部長上任之後的這些一言一行你去年9月2號上任的時候不久你就來到台中視察台鐵的這個站台說要來幫我們裝這個設置相關的這些安全的這些閘門等等的那目前為止在目前以高雄車站的事辦算是要開始來做了明年3月對那台中\n\n04:55.982 --> 05:23.631\n因為你去年說要讓台中來做那目前好像只聞部長說但是相關計畫跟委員報告因為我們高雄是第一個事辦的站我們要確定這樣子的系統是可運行的而且是安全而且適合台鐵如果確定之後我們就會開始去推展到各個車站尤其是人數比較多的那台中車站我自己也在那邊搭車好幾次在上去的時候確實發現假日的時候人潮蠻擁擠\n\n05:24.451 --> 05:48.401\n然後粵台其實是相對擁擠的所以台中站應該到時候也會列為我們優先要設置這個所謂的粵台閘門的這個站體之一那個評定標準就是說因為現在是等高雄現在你所謂示範先看對我要先示範一段時間確定系統是穩定可行的那我想問問部長到時候現階段因為現在選高雄市所謂的示範那其他城市\n\n05:49.662 --> 06:02.495\n平定標準你是要等到高雄的事辦的結果現在現階段我們可以來看說哪些站點哪些大站或小站來決定要不要裝設這樣的東西台鐵開始評估了嗎是不是請台鐵董事長好沒問題\n\n06:03.291 --> 06:27.646\n我想我們會選這個高雄就是說這個月台門的設計因為台鐵的車種太多了所以它的這個做法就不像高鐵一樣就是說你可以疑似要鎖所有的車站都一樣那所以我們在這個情況之下我們就是先看哪一種方式看高雄現在這個方式是不是適合我們台鐵的部分\n\n06:28.146 --> 06:52.035\n那至於說人潮的需要那當然我們現在開始已經開始評估說哪些是需要做月台門的我具體建議跟部長跟董事長來報告包含說過去當然曾經發生過意外的我們的五泉站跟太原站這是發生過事件的那如果從人潮來看松竹站松竹站他的人潮從去年到今年提升了20%\n\n06:53.556 --> 07:16.872\n所以它其實人潮是增加因為它整個重劃區的關係所以人都變多所以像這種人潮明顯增加那因為它本來不是什麼A級站不是一級站它自己屬於小型的地方站本來是這樣一開始像什麼松竹那麼太原這些五泉你應該很清楚都只是區間車理論上停的小站但是因為它現在隨著人口成長它變成像是大家把當年捷運在做我想這也是交通部樂見的事情\n\n07:17.512 --> 07:27.968\n當然捷運在做之後讓人潮提升非常多所以未來是不是可以把它像這些本來的小站也能夠因為人潮提升之後來把它裝設所謂的樂台有沒有機會這樣往這方向來思考\n\n07:28.715 --> 07:47.087\n跟委員報告這個人潮的隨著人口的成長那旅客的這個成長的因素的話我們會列為考慮之一好董事長謝謝那接下來在今天主題當然要討論一下安全問題這個我們回顧一下其實每次遇到重大事故就還要見景率所以從108年114年113年每一次\n\n07:49.929 --> 08:06.737\n我想歷史許多新聞只要看到了台鐵或者是我們的這種公共運輸出問題的時候就會喊建請率建請率建請率但是實際上我們看這個預算當然這不歸你們不全然是你們的問題這個警察的部分缺額比例\n\n08:08.130 --> 08:33.828\n預算原額是910人但現有原額是726人當然這是隔壁內政委員會的問題但是這實際上每次說要喊建警率提升但實際上真正的警察有提升嗎沒有所以在安全的措施上面我覺得這個部分台鐵或是交通部有沒有什麼做法除了建警率提升之外到底要怎麼做或是你們要怎麼去跟內政部協調是警察要增加呢還是有其他的措施可以改變這個部分改定這個部分\n\n08:34.697 --> 08:47.564\n當然長期來說跟內政部來爭取這個鐵路警察的員額的增加或者是實際派遣人力的增加這個我們當然會持續來拜託跟要求那另外針對關鍵基礎設施我們也會專案來跟內政部來請求這個專案的警力\n\n08:52.327 --> 09:17.740\n那第三就是說或許保全的人力能夠更快速的來補充也是一種方案那我也請台鐵公司開始再做研議我們針對保全人力的部分有沒有可能來增加部長您再看一下就是說我提供一個資料就是你們我們去要資料從1月1今天5月22號因為台鐵這個玉里花蓮區間車發生這個旅客攻擊列車事件所以當你們提出一些這個加強護車的勤務\n\n09:19.961 --> 09:46.622\n那確實從4月到5月4月開始到5月5月到6月6月到7月7月到8月8月到9月底都有相關紀錄就是這個專案進行了大概半年左右但是928之後這個專案好像就停止了那我要講什麼就是說發生重大社會事件台鐵很積極我會馬上請大家來協情提升見景率可是這個專案結束了之後又回到正常\n\n09:47.608 --> 10:06.715\n好像是會讓一些有心人士或者說只能假設這個不定時炸彈有機可乘所以我們希望說如果在事件發生的當下見景率能夠提升你護車班次能夠提高那平常是到底是人地不足的問題還是什麼問題我覺得這部分是整個交通部跟內政部要一起去檢討可以嗎好我們一起來檢討董事長要回應嗎\n\n10:11.604 --> 10:27.834\n我想這個提高鑑定力的我們最近跟這個鐵警局這邊有一個非常好的一個這個共識就是說他們要用跨區跨域好來這個執行他情味就是說如果他到了台中以後他可以往前\n\n10:28.695 --> 10:49.197\n往下一個他的這個非轄區的部分去做那這樣的話所以我們現在跨車的這個每週是有439人已經增加到687人那每週的這個車次也由453次增加到700人700個車次所以有大幅的增加好董事長謝謝部長謝謝謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.437,"end":7.362,"text":"好謝謝這個主席我們一樣請交通部陳思凱部長陳部長請"},{"start":20.285,"end":47.82,"text":"部長我想兩週前我們交通委員會有讓台中來考察我們台中的捷運綠線延伸段的部分那當時當然我本席的立場當然是希望說我們所謂延伸到大坑這段可以優先來做那當時在這個會議中這個部長你也提到說因為這延伸段分為南段跟北段那所以在送建的時候因為南邊涉及到彰化的都市計畫所以說台中在送建的時候可以把它直接分成南段跟北段"},{"start":48.32,"end":77.157,"text":"但是我回來之後我們查了一下包含說過去台中的三海環線一開始送出去的時候是完整的計畫但是後來交通部意見一樣把它拆成由交通部來拆拆成三個計畫分成三線海線加後線那台中的當初的整個屯區捷運的延伸線整個環狀線的部分後來也是依據交通部意見拆成了紫線跟藍線的延伸段那像高雄的岡山路竹線也是依據國防意見一開始也是整個送進去後來也是由國防院核定拆成兩地段進行"},{"start":77.737,"end":107.077,"text":"那我今天在這邊跟部長就教是說今天這些計劃一開始地方送上去都是完整的那這一次其實是按照我們的捷運延伸線原先的計劃當然也希望是能夠完整的送進去來審也希望能夠完整的整段來通過但是因為就如同我所說因為這個光是過去這些屬於同一個地方政府同一個城市它的這個捷運建設它的這些鐵路建設它都會有可能因為計劃其成因為經費管理被拆分"},{"start":107.737,"end":137.271,"text":"那像這個台中這個綠線捷運延伸線它是橫跨兩個城市彰化縣跟台中市那彰化縣裡面又涉及到他們彰化市的問題所以等於同時間有三個地方政府會面對這個問題那我據我所知像去年今年初今年二月的時候我們這個內政部也又把張東擴大都市計畫又退回了一次嘛所以等於現在這個東西又沒有進度所以對我來講或對交通部來講我的問題我們的尷尬點在於說對台中市政府我們要送出去我們當然希望一次來做完"},{"start":137.751,"end":156.008,"text":"可是因為這個什麼都市計畫這個都需要送內政部審都需要說中央來會來審但如果最後在中央這邊被退回的話地方來不及處理嘛所以要問說這個部分到時候這個細部到底我們是由我們猜還是到時候是送上去一次送上去之後由交通部來大家一起來"},{"start":157.009,"end":183.969,"text":"決定到底怎麼處理這部分跟委員報告都市計畫的部分交通部大概也幫不上忙啦他那個進度可能要自己去抓張東的部分要彰化縣政府他們自己去抓那另外對於拆分的部分委員剛剛有提到一個很關鍵的議題就是說他們都是整體各個地方都是整體送上來然後由國發會去建議他們你們要不要拆開大概是這樣或者是由我們交通部來建議他要不要拆開"},{"start":184.75,"end":208.351,"text":"所以對地方政府來說他還是要整個送上來那我們可以出建議建議他拆但是實際上要不要拆的這個動作都還是地方政府必須要去做所以我們在計畫那我把明確一點當初那天會刊的時候沒有講得很明確如果把明確一點有個記錄所以地方政府這次要送所謂的明年初要送綜合規劃一樣是把整個綠線延伸送上來"},{"start":209.372,"end":233.861,"text":"那看都市計劃有沒有趕上嘛讓他趕上我們就好大家一起台中彰化交通部一起合趕上當然就沒有問題嘛那如果沒趕上就沒趕上你們就會給建議嘛建議他們拆啦好OK那這樣沒問題喔但是拆不拆的決定權還是在地方政府自己的決定權沒關係這個是反正到時候就是你們會建議嘛建議建議不建議拆或不拆是交通部的權限還是台中市的權限"},{"start":235.253,"end":252.283,"text":"我們可提也可不提啦但是就是台中市政府這邊要想要拆他再來請我們給他建議拆這是可以的當然這是客觀事實啦我們沒有想要拆啦但是如果如果沒有想要拆那我們就不會建議他要拆啦都市計畫但是我有講那個都市計畫如果最後還是沒有 沒有進度那"},{"start":253.203,"end":272.422,"text":"那台中市政府要去做決定啦好因為這個決定權都還是在地方政府他們要自己做決定因為還是回到那天我們考察的時候我跟委員報告的那個觀念那個捷運系統的建制是地方自己辦的事項那中央只是一個協助的角色好沒問題這個部長接下來下一題這個"},{"start":274.076,"end":294.902,"text":"我想我只能關注我們部長上任之後的這些一言一行你去年9月2號上任的時候不久你就來到台中視察台鐵的這個站台說要來幫我們裝這個設置相關的這些安全的這些閘門等等的那目前為止在目前以高雄車站的事辦算是要開始來做了明年3月對 那台中"},{"start":295.982,"end":323.631,"text":"因為你去年說要讓台中來做那目前好像只聞部長說但是相關計畫跟委員報告因為我們高雄是第一個事辦的站我們要確定這樣子的系統是可運行的而且是安全而且適合台鐵如果確定之後我們就會開始去推展到各個車站尤其是人數比較多的那台中車站我自己也在那邊搭車好幾次在上去的時候確實發現假日的時候人潮蠻擁擠"},{"start":324.451,"end":348.401,"text":"然後粵台其實是相對擁擠的所以台中站應該到時候也會列為我們優先要設置這個所謂的粵台閘門的這個站體之一那個評定標準就是說因為現在是等高雄現在你所謂示範先看對我要先示範一段時間確定系統是穩定可行的那我想問問部長到時候現階段因為現在選高雄市所謂的示範那其他城市"},{"start":349.662,"end":362.495,"text":"平定標準你是要等到高雄的事辦的結果現在現階段我們可以來看說哪些站點哪些大站或小站來決定要不要裝設這樣的東西台鐵開始評估了嗎是不是請台鐵董事長好沒問題"},{"start":363.291,"end":387.646,"text":"我想我們會選這個高雄就是說這個月台門的設計因為台鐵的車種太多了所以它的這個做法就不像高鐵一樣就是說你可以疑似要鎖所有的車站都一樣那所以我們在這個情況之下我們就是先看哪一種方式看高雄現在這個方式是不是適合我們台鐵的部分"},{"start":388.146,"end":412.035,"text":"那至於說人潮的需要那當然我們現在開始已經開始評估說哪些是需要做月台門的我具體建議跟部長跟董事長來報告包含說過去當然曾經發生過意外的我們的五泉站跟太原站這是發生過事件的那如果從人潮來看松竹站松竹站他的人潮從去年到今年提升了20%"},{"start":413.556,"end":436.872,"text":"所以它其實人潮是增加因為它整個重劃區的關係所以人都變多所以像這種人潮明顯增加那因為它本來不是什麼A級站不是一級站它自己屬於小型的地方站本來是這樣一開始像什麼松竹那麼太原這些五泉你應該很清楚都只是區間車理論上停的小站但是因為它現在隨著人口成長它變成像是大家把當年捷運在做我想這也是交通部樂見的事情"},{"start":437.512,"end":447.968,"text":"當然捷運在做之後讓人潮提升非常多所以未來是不是可以把它像這些本來的小站也能夠因為人潮提升之後來把它裝設所謂的樂台有沒有機會這樣往這方向來思考"},{"start":448.715,"end":467.087,"text":"跟委員報告這個人潮的隨著人口的成長那旅客的這個成長的因素的話我們會列為考慮之一好董事長謝謝那接下來在今天主題當然要討論一下安全問題這個我們回顧一下其實每次遇到重大事故就還要見景率所以從108年114年113年每一次"},{"start":469.929,"end":486.737,"text":"我想歷史許多新聞只要看到了台鐵或者是我們的這種公共運輸出問題的時候就會喊建請率建請率建請率但是實際上我們看這個預算當然這不歸你們不全然是你們的問題這個警察的部分缺額比例"},{"start":488.13,"end":513.828,"text":"預算原額是910人 但現有原額是726人當然這是隔壁內政委員會的問題 但是這實際上每次說要喊建警率提升 但實際上真正的警察有提升嗎 沒有所以在安全的措施上面 我覺得這個部分台鐵或是交通部有沒有什麼做法 除了建警率提升之外到底要怎麼做 或是你們要怎麼去跟內政部協調是警察要增加呢 還是有其他的措施可以改變這個部分 改定這個部分"},{"start":514.697,"end":527.564,"text":"當然長期來說跟內政部來爭取這個鐵路警察的員額的增加或者是實際派遣人力的增加這個我們當然會持續來拜託跟要求那另外針對關鍵基礎設施我們也會專案來跟內政部來請求這個專案的警力"},{"start":532.327,"end":557.74,"text":"那第三就是說或許保全的人力能夠更快速的來補充也是一種方案那我也請台鐵公司開始再做研議我們針對保全人力的部分有沒有可能來增加部長您再看一下就是說我提供一個資料就是你們我們去要資料從1月1今天5月22號因為台鐵這個玉里花蓮區間車發生這個旅客攻擊列車事件所以當你們提出一些這個加強護車的勤務"},{"start":559.961,"end":586.622,"text":"那確實從4月到5月4月開始到5月5月到6月6月到7月7月到8月8月到9月底都有相關紀錄就是這個專案進行了大概半年左右但是928之後這個專案好像就停止了那我要講什麼就是說發生重大社會事件台鐵很積極我會馬上請大家來協情提升見景率可是這個專案結束了之後又回到正常"},{"start":587.608,"end":606.715,"text":"好像是會讓一些有心人士或者說只能假設這個不定時炸彈有機可乘所以我們希望說如果在事件發生的當下見景率能夠提升你護車班次能夠提高那平常是到底是人地不足的問題還是什麼問題我覺得這部分是整個交通部跟內政部要一起去檢討可以嗎好我們一起來檢討董事長要回應嗎"},{"start":611.604,"end":627.834,"text":"我想這個提高鑑定力的我們最近跟這個鐵警局這邊有一個非常好的一個這個共識就是說他們要用跨區跨域好來這個執行他情味就是說如果他到了台中以後他可以往前"},{"start":628.695,"end":649.197,"text":"往下一個他的這個非轄區的部分去做那這樣的話所以我們現在跨車的這個每週是有439人已經增加到687人那每週的這個車次也由453次增加到700人700個車次所以有大幅的增加好 董事長謝謝 部長謝謝謝謝委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":586,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（10時55分）謝謝主席，我一樣請交通部陳世凱部長。"],["主席：陳部長請。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，兩週前，交通委員會到臺中考察臺中的捷運綠線延伸段，本席的立場當然是希望延伸到大坑這一段可以優先做，當時部長在會議中也提到由於延伸段分為南段跟北段，南邊涉及彰化的都市計畫，所以臺中在送件時可以直接分成南段跟北段。但是我回來之後查了一下，發覺過去臺中的山海環線一開始送出去時是完整的計畫，後來依交通部的意見，由交通部拆成3個計畫，分成山線、海線、甲后線，臺中當初規劃的屯區捷運延伸線、環狀線也依交通部意見拆成紫線跟藍線延伸段。","高雄的岡山、路竹線計畫一開始整個送進去，後來也是由國發會核定拆成兩階段進行，所以我今天要就教部長的是這些計畫在一開始地方送上去時都是完整的，這次我們按照原先的捷運延伸線計畫完整地送進去審，當然也希望完整地整段通過，但是就如同我所說，光是過去這些屬於同一個地方政府、同一個城市的捷運建設、鐵路建設，都可能因為計畫期程、經費的關係被拆分。那麼臺中捷運綠線延伸線橫跨兩個城市：彰化縣跟臺中市，彰化縣內部又涉及彰化市的問題，所以等於同時間有3個地方政府會面對這個問題。而且據我所知，今年初的二月，內政部又把彰東擴大都市計畫退回一次，所以這件事等於沒有進度。對我來講，或者對交通部來講，尷尬點在於臺中市政府送出去，當然希望一次做完，可是都市計畫等需要送內政部審、送到中央來會、來審，如果最後在中央這邊被退回，地方就來不及處理嘛！所以我要問的是細部到底是由我們拆，還是一次送上去之後，到時候由交通部或大家一起決定到底怎麼處理？"],["陳部長世凱：跟委員報告，在都市計畫部分，交通部大概也幫不上忙，進度可能要自己去抓，彰東部分要由彰化縣政府自己去抓。另外，關於拆分，委員剛剛提到一個很關鍵的議題，就是各地方都是將整體計畫送上來，由國發會建議他們要或不要拆開，大概是這樣，或者是由我們交通部建議他們要或不要拆開。所以，對地方政府來說還是要整個送上來，而我們可以出建議，例如建議拆，但是實際上要不要拆，動作都還是地方政府要做。"],["黃委員健豪：那我們明確一點，因為那天會勘的時候沒有講得很明確，所以講明確一點，留個紀錄：地方政府明年初要送綜合規劃時，一樣要把整個綠線延伸計畫送上來，再看都市計畫有沒有趕上嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["黃委員健豪：如果趕上，就大家─臺中、彰化、交通部一起合作……"],["陳部長世凱：趕上的話當然就沒有問題。"],["黃委員健豪：如果沒趕上就……"],["陳部長世凱：沒趕上，我們就建議他們拆啦！"],["黃委員健豪：OK，那這樣沒問題。"],["陳部長世凱：但是拆或不拆的決定權還是在於地方政府自己。"],["黃委員健豪：沒關係，反正到時候你們會建議嘛！建議拆或不拆是交通部的權限還是臺中市的權限？"],["陳部長世凱：我們可提也可不提啦！但是如果臺中市政府想要拆，再請我們建議拆，這是可以的。"],["黃委員健豪：這是客觀事實啦！我們沒有想拆啦！但是如果都市計畫……"],["陳部長世凱：如果沒有想拆，那我們就不會建議拆啊！"],["黃委員健豪：但如果都市計畫最後還是沒有進度，那整體計畫……"],["陳部長世凱：那臺中市政府要自己做決定啦！因為決定權還是在地方政府，他們要自己做決定。還是回到那天考察時我跟委員報告的那個觀念，捷運系統的建置是地方自己辦的事項，中央只是一個協助的角色。"],["黃委員健豪：好，沒問題。","接下來我一直關注部長上任之後的一言一行，你去年9月2號上任後不久，就來到臺中視察臺鐵的站台，說要來幫我們設置安全閘門等等。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["黃委員健豪：當然目前高雄車站經過試辦，算是要開始來做了。"],["陳部長世凱：明年3月開始。"],["黃委員健豪：好，因為你去年說要讓臺中來做，但目前好像只聞部長說，相關計畫……"],["陳部長世凱：跟委員報告，因為高雄是第一個試辦的站，我們要確定這樣子的系統是可運行的而且是安全的，而且也適合臺鐵，如果確定之後，我們就會開始推展到各個車站，尤其是人數比較多的。臺中車站我自己也在那邊搭車好幾次，發現假日的時候確實人潮滿擁擠的，月台其實是相對擁擠的，所以臺中站到時候應該也會列為我們優先設置月台閘門的站體之一。"],["黃委員健豪：那個評定標準，因為現在是等高雄先試辦……"],["陳部長世凱：對，要先試辦一段時間，確定系統是穩定可行的。"],["黃委員健豪：那我想問部長，現階段是選高雄市試辦，那其他城市的評定標準，你是要等到高雄試辦的結果出來，還是現階段可以來看哪些站點是大站或小站，來決定要不要裝設這樣的東西？"],["陳部長世凱：是不是請臺鐵董事長？"],["黃委員健豪：好，沒問題。"],["鄭董事長光遠：關於月台門的設計，我想我們會選高雄，是因為臺鐵的車種太多了，所以它的作法就不像高鐵一樣可以一式，所有的車站都一樣，在這個情況之下，我們就先看高雄現在這個方式是不是適合臺鐵？至於人潮的需要，當然我們現在已經開始評估哪些是需要做月台門的。"],["黃委員健豪：我具體跟部長、董事長建議，臺中五權站、太原站過去曾經發生過意外，如果從人潮來看，松竹站的人潮從去年到今年提升了20%，因為重劃區的關係，人口變多，像這種人潮明顯增加、但它本來不是什麼A級站、一級站，而是屬於小型地方站的，本來是這樣，一開始像什麼松竹、太原、五權應該很清楚，都只是區間車停的小站，但是現在隨著人口成長，大家都把它當成捷運在坐，我想這也是交通部樂見的事情。"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["黃委員健豪：當成捷運在坐之後，人潮提升非常多，所以未來是不是可以把這些本來的小站，因為人潮提升之後，來裝設月台門，有沒有機會往這個方向來思考？"],["鄭董事長光遠：跟委員報告，隨著人口成長、旅客成長，我們會列為考慮之一。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝董事長。","接下來，今天的主題是討論安全問題，我們回顧一下，其實每次遇到重大事故，就喊要見警率，從108年、113年到114年，每一次只要看到臺鐵或公共運輸出問題的時候，就會喊見警率、見警率、見警率，但實際上我們看預算，當然不全然是你們的問題，警察的缺額比例，預算員額有910人，但現在只有726人，當然這是內政委員會的問題，但是每天在喊提升見警率，實際上有提升嗎？沒有。所以在安全的措施上面，不知道在這個部分臺鐵或交通部有沒有什麼作法？除了提升見警率之外，到底要怎麼做，或是你們要怎麼去跟內政部協調？是要增加警察呢？還是有其他的措施可以改進？"],["陳部長世凱：當然長期來說，跟內政部來爭取鐵路警察員額的增加或實際派遣人力的增加，我們會持續來拜託跟要求；另外，針對關鍵基礎設施，我們也會專案來跟內政部請求這個專案的警力；第三，保全的人力能夠更快速的來補充，也是一種方案，我也請臺鐵公司開始研議，看保全人力有沒有可能增加。"],["黃委員健豪：部長再看一下我提供的資料，這是我們去要的資料，從今年5月22號臺鐵玉里─花蓮區間車發生旅客攻擊事件以後，你們提出了一些加強護車的勤務，確實從4月開始到5月、5月到6月、6月到7月、7月到8月、8月到9月底都有相關紀錄，就是這個專案進行了大概半年左右，但是928之後這個專案好像就停止了。我要講的是發生重大社會事件，臺鐵很積極，會馬上請大家來協勤，提升見警率，可是這個專案結束之後又回到正常，這樣會讓一些有心人士或不定時炸彈有機可乘。在事件發生的當下見警率能夠提升，護車班次能夠提高，那平常到底是人力不足的問題還是什麼問題？我覺得這部分是交通部跟內政部要一起去檢討的，可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：好，我們一起來檢討。"],["黃委員健豪：董事長要回應嗎？"],["鄭董事長光遠：是，我想提高見警率，我們最近跟鐵警局有一個非常好的共識，就是他們要跨區、跨域來執行勤務，也就是說如果他到了臺中以後，他可以往下一個非轄區的部分去做，因此，我們跨車的人力本來是每週439人，現在已經增加到687人，每週的車次也由原來的453次增加到700個車次，已經有大幅的增加。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝董事長，謝謝部長。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請魯明哲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-4","speakers":["洪孟楷","廖先翔","林國成","李昆澤","林俊憲","蔡其昌","陳素月","徐富癸","黃健豪","魯明哲","陳俊宇","許智傑","陳雪生","何欣純","李柏毅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","謝龍介","邱若華","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","徐欣瑩","游顥","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","郭昱晴"],"page_start":61,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1149001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1149001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長及勞動部就「臺鐵各地車站旅客安全措\n施檢討、改善員工職場安全及勞動條件」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部部長及交通\n部鐵道局局長就「全台軌道建設進度」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1149001_00002"}}}