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0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 492.164, \"end\": 492.184, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,269 --> 00:00:10,833\n今天都要保持70分貝以下超過分貝太高我驅逐出會場主席請找人事長請人事長\n\n2\n00:00:19,810 --> 00:00:47,050\n委員長委員長早我跟你講一個現在在學校發生的現象某一個公立高中他有一個某一個處的一個組長一般組長是由老師來兼因為沒有老師兼所以就找代理老師代理老師一招二招是可以找有教師證都找不到所以三招就開始找沒有教師證的就是那種大學畢業有符合大學畢業資格的就可以來當組長\n\n3\n00:00:49,071 --> 00:01:08,721\n然後第一位代理組長做一個月就不做了後來又再招第二個組長又是做一個月就不做了所以現在在學校缺行政職的狀況是非常嚴重但是這裡面出現一個我個人覺得蠻奇怪的現象\n\n4\n00:01:09,321 --> 00:01:37,402\n就是其實學校裡面很多組裡面都有考教務行政進去的幹事這些幹事有的是做可能十幾二十年他不能做組長然後呢要由比如說大學剛畢業可能就教學各方面都還沒有經驗的人當他的主管領主管家級但卻不能由幹事來代理這個組長就出現這個狀況那個我不曉得任市長您聽到之後會不會覺得有點奇怪\n\n5\n00:01:40,069 --> 00:02:01,358\n這個我們再來了解一下不是了解我現在跟你講現象就是這樣那你聽我這樣描述你覺得不能由很有經驗的幹事來代理組長但是必須要由比如說沒有教師證我不是說代理老師一定不好啦而是說這就找不到人嘛當然可以先老師然後再來代理老師但是如果都找不到人的情況之下\n\n6\n00:02:02,679 --> 00:02:13,180\n幹事不能來代理組長他明明就很有經驗啊只是因為他他不是老師他就沒有辦法代理組長然後你不覺得很奇怪嗎你聽這樣講你會不會覺得很奇怪\n\n7\n00:02:14,065 --> 00:02:38,926\n有一點奇怪這部分我會答應委員我們找教育部來了解一下看看因應這樣的情況要如何去解決一定要改過來教育現場已經碰到了一定要想辦法解決所以你現在是要研議說如果假設碰到這種狀況老師都沒有辦法去兼的話由幹事來代理你在研議這個方向是不是\n\n8\n00:02:39,306 --> 00:02:45,630\n有時候也是人事總署的建議啦因為有的是那種直系也是你們規定啦那這個部分就麻煩你了什麼時候會給我一個答案一個月內嘛因為現在狀況很嚴重\n\n9\n00:03:02,302 --> 00:03:22,215\n三個月啦三個月太久了啦因為那個人事長平常不是這個直系的東西不是地方可以決定的啦這是第一件事情第二件事情行政現在缺行政職其實很多人在說要提高行政家級那這個部分其實已經講很久\n\n10\n00:03:23,095 --> 00:03:33,745\n那我是有看到考試院有發一個新聞啦可能人事總處也有建議啦就是我們現在要平衡中央跟地方嘛所以要調整地方機關的3500個職務讓他可以提高一個職等嘛對吧\n\n11\n00:03:35,061 --> 00:03:59,530\n職等大概原來有7-8會整個調到8-9所以其實我建議可以比照這種做法因為你們的出發點很好就是地方機關有時候找人不容易很多人都要往中央去跑就是因為職等比較低所以現在要平衡這件事情同樣的像我也覺得在學校裡面的校長主任職等很低現在校長如果領行政家級的話職等是多少\n\n12\n00:04:02,338 --> 00:04:13,736\n小學是不是兼任九職等兼任九職等你看喔一個學校的校長喔校長喔他的職等才兼任九職等高中是兼任十職等嘛對吧\n\n13\n00:04:16,566 --> 00:04:35,334\n那當然嘛那以一個學校校長都才兼任90等那人事長不覺得很不尊重教育嗎不重視教育嗎重視教育那謝謝就像你重視地方機關一樣你現在要調整中央跟地方的值等讓他們比較平衡我覺得\n\n14\n00:04:36,354 --> 00:04:53,202\n也應該要調整學校的行政職的職等校長主任都往上提高那提高的話他的行政佳績就會提高嘛那這是一個尊重第二個當然是待遇也提高不然的話現在在學校也沒有人要真的很少人要兼行政才會出現我剛剛講的狀況啦人事長你重視教育嗎\n\n15\n00:04:59,344 --> 00:05:25,099\n那就不要口慧食不治好不好這件事情既然可以做到地方的職等提高我覺得教育行政職等提高也是應該要做第三件事情我們現在在學校裡面有非常多處學務處教務處輔導室總務處那您知道在學校裡面只有哪幾個組長是可以由公務人員來兼嗎您知道嗎三個就是總務處下面三個組長可以兼\n\n16\n00:05:26,277 --> 00:05:48,934\n那我現在不懂的是說那人事總署跟教育部都會規定說要有老師來兼的原因是因為老師有教學經驗嘛所以有些組長他可能要有教學經驗的組長去兼他比較了解怎麼去規劃學校的相關行政事務嘛應該是這樣嘛出發點應該是這樣嘛對吧這個我可以接受所以所有的組長一開都找老師\n\n17\n00:05:49,966 --> 00:06:14,709\n但是老師找不到代理助長找不到代理老師找不到的情況之下有一些組實際上他不見得需要教學經驗的人來做嘛舉例來講像教務處教務處你說教學組那當然要有教學經驗對不對但是如果註冊組或者是輔導室的一些其他的相關的譬如說資訊組這為什麼一定要有教學經驗的人來兼呢\n\n18\n00:06:16,650 --> 00:06:38,740\n這個可能也牽涉到學校的資訊教育的好沒關係你去盤點嘛你說一定要教學經驗的來做那你就按照原來的規劃但是如果有的實際上不見得一定要老師在兼而現在學校已經缺行政職缺到這麼嚴重的地步我剛剛已經講過案例了嘛那為什麼不能做一些調整呢\n\n19\n00:06:39,660 --> 00:06:52,285\n這很僵化我們政府很僵化就是不會說遇到問題去調整體制就是既有的體制一直做到底即便是遇到問題好像當沒看到那這是一個負責任的解決問題的政府嗎任市長\n\n20\n00:06:53,649 --> 00:07:17,960\n我想我會把委員的意見轉請教育部整體來沒有這個有關於人事任用教育部有時候就會推給人事總署嘛這個乾燥人事總署的規劃我們一起處理我們一起對啊你推給他他推給你問題就永遠存在嘛不是啦我跟你講人事長因為剛剛那個昭緯有指示啊分配不能太大但是你的回應真的讓人家覺得很官僚啦\n\n21\n00:07:18,993 --> 00:07:48,230\n你就一直去扯教育部如果一個勇於任事的人事長發現這個問題教育體制的人事任用出現這個問題就會說哇我很重視教育我要趕快去跟教育部我們一起研商出一個解決教育現場問題的方法但是我沒有看到你的態度欸然後我剛剛第一時間我的態度跟委員一樣我第一時間跟你講說問題已經嚴重到就是有一公立老師他缺公立高中缺行政職缺到這種地步然後你跟我講說我三個月給你辦法你根本不把這個當一回事啊\n\n22\n00:07:49,778 --> 00:08:12,184\n所以我希望說你真的認真的去看待這件事情可以嗎可以啊那可不可以盡快給我們一個解決方案盡快不要講三個月好那多久兩個月兩個月你覺得兩個月兩個月一個學期都過去了勒一個月啦我剛剛講了三個建議我剛剛講了三個建議一個月給我一個報告好不好好不好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n269\t10833\t今天都要保持70分貝以下超過分貝太高我驅逐出會場主席請找人事長請人事長\n19810\t47050\t委員長委員長早我跟你講一個現在在學校發生的現象某一個公立高中他有一個某一個處的一個組長一般組長是由老師來兼因為沒有老師兼所以就找代理老師代理老師一招二招是可以找有教師證都找不到所以三招就開始找沒有教師證的就是那種大學畢業有符合大學畢業資格的就可以來當組長\n49071\t68721\t然後第一位代理組長做一個月就不做了後來又再招第二個組長又是做一個月就不做了所以現在在學校缺行政職的狀況是非常嚴重但是這裡面出現一個我個人覺得蠻奇怪的現象\n69321\t97402\t就是其實學校裡面很多組裡面都有考教務行政進去的幹事這些幹事有的是做可能十幾二十年他不能做組長然後呢要由比如說大學剛畢業可能就教學各方面都還沒有經驗的人當他的主管領主管家級但卻不能由幹事來代理這個組長就出現這個狀況那個我不曉得任市長您聽到之後會不會覺得有點奇怪\n100069\t121358\t這個我們再來了解一下不是了解我現在跟你講現象就是這樣那你聽我這樣描述你覺得不能由很有經驗的幹事來代理組長但是必須要由比如說沒有教師證我不是說代理老師一定不好啦而是說這就找不到人嘛當然可以先老師然後再來代理老師但是如果都找不到人的情況之下\n122679\t133180\t幹事不能來代理組長他明明就很有經驗啊只是因為他他不是老師他就沒有辦法代理組長然後你不覺得很奇怪嗎你聽這樣講你會不會覺得很奇怪\n134065\t158926\t有一點奇怪這部分我會答應委員我們找教育部來了解一下看看因應這樣的情況要如何去解決一定要改過來教育現場已經碰到了一定要想辦法解決所以你現在是要研議說如果假設碰到這種狀況老師都沒有辦法去兼的話由幹事來代理你在研議這個方向是不是\n159306\t165630\t有時候也是人事總署的建議啦因為有的是那種直系也是你們規定啦那這個部分就麻煩你了什麼時候會給我一個答案一個月內嘛 因為現在狀況很嚴重\n182302\t202215\t三個月啦 三個月太久了啦因為那個人事長平常不是 這個直系的東西不是地方可以決定的啦這是第一件事情第二件事情行政 現在缺行政職其實很多人在說要提高行政家級那這個部分其實已經講很久\n203095\t213745\t那我是有看到考試院有發一個新聞啦可能人事總處也有建議啦就是我們現在要平衡中央跟地方嘛所以要調整地方機關的3500個職務讓他可以提高一個職等嘛對吧\n215061\t239530\t職等大概原來有7-8會整個調到8-9所以其實我建議可以比照這種做法因為你們的出發點很好就是地方機關有時候找人不容易很多人都要往中央去跑就是因為職等比較低所以現在要平衡這件事情同樣的像我也覺得在學校裡面的校長主任職等很低現在校長如果領行政家級的話職等是多少\n242338\t253736\t小學是不是兼任九職等兼任九職等你看喔 一個學校的校長喔校長喔他的職等才兼任九職等高中是兼任十職等嘛對吧\n256566\t275334\t那當然嘛那以一個學校校長都才兼任90等那人事長不覺得很不尊重教育嗎不重視教育嗎重視教育那謝謝就像你重視地方機關一樣你現在要調整中央跟地方的值等讓他們比較平衡我覺得\n276354\t293202\t也應該要調整學校的行政職的職等校長主任都往上提高那提高的話他的行政佳績就會提高嘛那這是一個尊重第二個當然是待遇也提高不然的話現在在學校也沒有人要真的很少人要兼行政才會出現我剛剛講的狀況啦人事長你重視教育嗎\n299344\t325099\t那就不要口慧食不治好不好這件事情既然可以做到地方的職等提高我覺得教育行政職等提高也是應該要做第三件事情我們現在在學校裡面有非常多處學務處教務處輔導室總務處那您知道在學校裡面只有哪幾個組長是可以由公務人員來兼嗎您知道嗎三個就是總務處下面三個組長可以兼\n326277\t348934\t那我現在不懂的是說那人事總署跟教育部都會規定說要有老師來兼的原因是因為老師有教學經驗嘛所以有些組長他可能要有教學經驗的組長去兼他比較了解怎麼去規劃學校的相關行政事務嘛應該是這樣嘛出發點應該是這樣嘛對吧這個我可以接受所以所有的組長一開都找老師\n349966\t374709\t但是老師找不到 代理助長找不到 代理老師找不到的情況之下有一些組 實際上他不見得需要教學經驗的人來做嘛舉例來講 像教務處 教務處你說教學組那當然要有教學經驗對不對 但是如果註冊組或者是輔導室的一些其他的相關的 譬如說資訊組這為什麼一定要有教學經驗的人來兼呢\n376650\t398740\t這個可能也牽涉到學校的資訊教育的好沒關係你去盤點嘛你說一定要教學經驗的來做那你就按照原來的規劃但是如果有的實際上不見得一定要老師在兼而現在學校已經缺行政職缺到這麼嚴重的地步我剛剛已經講過案例了嘛那為什麼不能做一些調整呢\n399660\t412285\t這很僵化 我們政府很僵化就是不會說遇到問題去調整體制就是既有的體制一直做到底即便是遇到問題好像當沒看到那這是一個負責任的解決問題的政府嗎 任市長\n413649\t437960\t我想我會把委員的意見轉請教育部整體來沒有 這個有關於人事任用教育部有時候就會推給人事總署嘛這個乾燥人事總署的規劃我們一起處理 我們一起對啊 你推給他 他推給你問題就永遠存在嘛不是啦 我跟你講 人事長因為剛剛那個 昭緯有指示啊分配不能太大但是你的回應真的讓人家覺得很官僚啦\n438993\t468230\t你就一直去扯教育部如果一個勇於任事的人事長發現這個問題教育體制的人事任用出現這個問題就會說哇 我很重視教育我要趕快去跟教育部我們一起研商出一個解決教育現場問題的方法但是我沒有看到你的態度欸然後我剛剛第一時間 我的態度跟委員一樣我第一時間跟你講說問題已經嚴重到就是有一公立老師他缺公立高中缺行政職缺到這種地步然後你跟我講說我三個月給你辦法你根本不把這個當一回事啊\n469778\t492184\t所以我希望說你真的認真的去看待這件事情可以嗎可以啊那可不可以盡快給我們一個解決方案盡快不要講三個月好那多久兩個月兩個月你覺得兩個月兩個月一個學期都過去了勒一個月啦我剛剛講了三個建議我剛剛講了三個建議一個月給我一個報告好不好好不好 謝謝\n","txt":"今天都要保持70分貝以下超過分貝太高我驅逐出會場主席請找人事長請人事長\n委員長委員長早我跟你講一個現在在學校發生的現象某一個公立高中他有一個某一個處的一個組長一般組長是由老師來兼因為沒有老師兼所以就找代理老師代理老師一招二招是可以找有教師證都找不到所以三招就開始找沒有教師證的就是那種大學畢業有符合大學畢業資格的就可以來當組長\n然後第一位代理組長做一個月就不做了後來又再招第二個組長又是做一個月就不做了所以現在在學校缺行政職的狀況是非常嚴重但是這裡面出現一個我個人覺得蠻奇怪的現象\n就是其實學校裡面很多組裡面都有考教務行政進去的幹事這些幹事有的是做可能十幾二十年他不能做組長然後呢要由比如說大學剛畢業可能就教學各方面都還沒有經驗的人當他的主管領主管家級但卻不能由幹事來代理這個組長就出現這個狀況那個我不曉得任市長您聽到之後會不會覺得有點奇怪\n這個我們再來了解一下不是了解我現在跟你講現象就是這樣那你聽我這樣描述你覺得不能由很有經驗的幹事來代理組長但是必須要由比如說沒有教師證我不是說代理老師一定不好啦而是說這就找不到人嘛當然可以先老師然後再來代理老師但是如果都找不到人的情況之下\n幹事不能來代理組長他明明就很有經驗啊只是因為他他不是老師他就沒有辦法代理組長然後你不覺得很奇怪嗎你聽這樣講你會不會覺得很奇怪\n有一點奇怪這部分我會答應委員我們找教育部來了解一下看看因應這樣的情況要如何去解決一定要改過來教育現場已經碰到了一定要想辦法解決所以你現在是要研議說如果假設碰到這種狀況老師都沒有辦法去兼的話由幹事來代理你在研議這個方向是不是\n有時候也是人事總署的建議啦因為有的是那種直系也是你們規定啦那這個部分就麻煩你了什麼時候會給我一個答案一個月內嘛 因為現在狀況很嚴重\n三個月啦 三個月太久了啦因為那個人事長平常不是 這個直系的東西不是地方可以決定的啦這是第一件事情第二件事情行政 現在缺行政職其實很多人在說要提高行政家級那這個部分其實已經講很久\n那我是有看到考試院有發一個新聞啦可能人事總處也有建議啦就是我們現在要平衡中央跟地方嘛所以要調整地方機關的3500個職務讓他可以提高一個職等嘛對吧\n職等大概原來有7-8會整個調到8-9所以其實我建議可以比照這種做法因為你們的出發點很好就是地方機關有時候找人不容易很多人都要往中央去跑就是因為職等比較低所以現在要平衡這件事情同樣的像我也覺得在學校裡面的校長主任職等很低現在校長如果領行政家級的話職等是多少\n小學是不是兼任九職等兼任九職等你看喔 一個學校的校長喔校長喔他的職等才兼任九職等高中是兼任十職等嘛對吧\n那當然嘛那以一個學校校長都才兼任90等那人事長不覺得很不尊重教育嗎不重視教育嗎重視教育那謝謝就像你重視地方機關一樣你現在要調整中央跟地方的值等讓他們比較平衡我覺得\n也應該要調整學校的行政職的職等校長主任都往上提高那提高的話他的行政佳績就會提高嘛那這是一個尊重第二個當然是待遇也提高不然的話現在在學校也沒有人要真的很少人要兼行政才會出現我剛剛講的狀況啦人事長你重視教育嗎\n那就不要口慧食不治好不好這件事情既然可以做到地方的職等提高我覺得教育行政職等提高也是應該要做第三件事情我們現在在學校裡面有非常多處學務處教務處輔導室總務處那您知道在學校裡面只有哪幾個組長是可以由公務人員來兼嗎您知道嗎三個就是總務處下面三個組長可以兼\n那我現在不懂的是說那人事總署跟教育部都會規定說要有老師來兼的原因是因為老師有教學經驗嘛所以有些組長他可能要有教學經驗的組長去兼他比較了解怎麼去規劃學校的相關行政事務嘛應該是這樣嘛出發點應該是這樣嘛對吧這個我可以接受所以所有的組長一開都找老師\n但是老師找不到 代理助長找不到 代理老師找不到的情況之下有一些組 實際上他不見得需要教學經驗的人來做嘛舉例來講 像教務處 教務處你說教學組那當然要有教學經驗對不對 但是如果註冊組或者是輔導室的一些其他的相關的 譬如說資訊組這為什麼一定要有教學經驗的人來兼呢\n這個可能也牽涉到學校的資訊教育的好沒關係你去盤點嘛你說一定要教學經驗的來做那你就按照原來的規劃但是如果有的實際上不見得一定要老師在兼而現在學校已經缺行政職缺到這麼嚴重的地步我剛剛已經講過案例了嘛那為什麼不能做一些調整呢\n這很僵化 我們政府很僵化就是不會說遇到問題去調整體制就是既有的體制一直做到底即便是遇到問題好像當沒看到那這是一個負責任的解決問題的政府嗎 任市長\n我想我會把委員的意見轉請教育部整體來沒有 這個有關於人事任用教育部有時候就會推給人事總署嘛這個乾燥人事總署的規劃我們一起處理 我們一起對啊 你推給他 他推給你問題就永遠存在嘛不是啦 我跟你講 人事長因為剛剛那個 昭緯有指示啊分配不能太大但是你的回應真的讓人家覺得很官僚啦\n你就一直去扯教育部如果一個勇於任事的人事長發現這個問題教育體制的人事任用出現這個問題就會說哇 我很重視教育我要趕快去跟教育部我們一起研商出一個解決教育現場問題的方法但是我沒有看到你的態度欸然後我剛剛第一時間 我的態度跟委員一樣我第一時間跟你講說問題已經嚴重到就是有一公立老師他缺公立高中缺行政職缺到這種地步然後你跟我講說我三個月給你辦法你根本不把這個當一回事啊\n所以我希望說你真的認真的去看待這件事情可以嗎可以啊那可不可以盡快給我們一個解決方案盡快不要講三個月好那多久兩個月兩個月你覺得兩個月兩個月一個學期都過去了勒一個月啦我剛剛講了三個建議我剛剛講了三個建議一個月給我一個報告好不好好不好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.269 --> 00:10.833\n今天都要保持70分貝以下超過分貝太高我驅逐出會場主席請找人事長請人事長\n\n00:19.810 --> 00:47.050\n委員長委員長早我跟你講一個現在在學校發生的現象某一個公立高中他有一個某一個處的一個組長一般組長是由老師來兼因為沒有老師兼所以就找代理老師代理老師一招二招是可以找有教師證都找不到所以三招就開始找沒有教師證的就是那種大學畢業有符合大學畢業資格的就可以來當組長\n\n00:49.071 --> 01:08.721\n然後第一位代理組長做一個月就不做了後來又再招第二個組長又是做一個月就不做了所以現在在學校缺行政職的狀況是非常嚴重但是這裡面出現一個我個人覺得蠻奇怪的現象\n\n01:09.321 --> 01:37.402\n就是其實學校裡面很多組裡面都有考教務行政進去的幹事這些幹事有的是做可能十幾二十年他不能做組長然後呢要由比如說大學剛畢業可能就教學各方面都還沒有經驗的人當他的主管領主管家級但卻不能由幹事來代理這個組長就出現這個狀況那個我不曉得任市長您聽到之後會不會覺得有點奇怪\n\n01:40.069 --> 02:01.358\n這個我們再來了解一下不是了解我現在跟你講現象就是這樣那你聽我這樣描述你覺得不能由很有經驗的幹事來代理組長但是必須要由比如說沒有教師證我不是說代理老師一定不好啦而是說這就找不到人嘛當然可以先老師然後再來代理老師但是如果都找不到人的情況之下\n\n02:02.679 --> 02:13.180\n幹事不能來代理組長他明明就很有經驗啊只是因為他他不是老師他就沒有辦法代理組長然後你不覺得很奇怪嗎你聽這樣講你會不會覺得很奇怪\n\n02:14.065 --> 02:38.926\n有一點奇怪這部分我會答應委員我們找教育部來了解一下看看因應這樣的情況要如何去解決一定要改過來教育現場已經碰到了一定要想辦法解決所以你現在是要研議說如果假設碰到這種狀況老師都沒有辦法去兼的話由幹事來代理你在研議這個方向是不是\n\n02:39.306 --> 02:45.630\n有時候也是人事總署的建議啦因為有的是那種直系也是你們規定啦那這個部分就麻煩你了什麼時候會給我一個答案一個月內嘛因為現在狀況很嚴重\n\n03:02.302 --> 03:22.215\n三個月啦三個月太久了啦因為那個人事長平常不是這個直系的東西不是地方可以決定的啦這是第一件事情第二件事情行政現在缺行政職其實很多人在說要提高行政家級那這個部分其實已經講很久\n\n03:23.095 --> 03:33.745\n那我是有看到考試院有發一個新聞啦可能人事總處也有建議啦就是我們現在要平衡中央跟地方嘛所以要調整地方機關的3500個職務讓他可以提高一個職等嘛對吧\n\n03:35.061 --> 03:59.530\n職等大概原來有7-8會整個調到8-9所以其實我建議可以比照這種做法因為你們的出發點很好就是地方機關有時候找人不容易很多人都要往中央去跑就是因為職等比較低所以現在要平衡這件事情同樣的像我也覺得在學校裡面的校長主任職等很低現在校長如果領行政家級的話職等是多少\n\n04:02.338 --> 04:13.736\n小學是不是兼任九職等兼任九職等你看喔一個學校的校長喔校長喔他的職等才兼任九職等高中是兼任十職等嘛對吧\n\n04:16.566 --> 04:35.334\n那當然嘛那以一個學校校長都才兼任90等那人事長不覺得很不尊重教育嗎不重視教育嗎重視教育那謝謝就像你重視地方機關一樣你現在要調整中央跟地方的值等讓他們比較平衡我覺得\n\n04:36.354 --> 04:53.202\n也應該要調整學校的行政職的職等校長主任都往上提高那提高的話他的行政佳績就會提高嘛那這是一個尊重第二個當然是待遇也提高不然的話現在在學校也沒有人要真的很少人要兼行政才會出現我剛剛講的狀況啦人事長你重視教育嗎\n\n04:59.344 --> 05:25.099\n那就不要口慧食不治好不好這件事情既然可以做到地方的職等提高我覺得教育行政職等提高也是應該要做第三件事情我們現在在學校裡面有非常多處學務處教務處輔導室總務處那您知道在學校裡面只有哪幾個組長是可以由公務人員來兼嗎您知道嗎三個就是總務處下面三個組長可以兼\n\n05:26.277 --> 05:48.934\n那我現在不懂的是說那人事總署跟教育部都會規定說要有老師來兼的原因是因為老師有教學經驗嘛所以有些組長他可能要有教學經驗的組長去兼他比較了解怎麼去規劃學校的相關行政事務嘛應該是這樣嘛出發點應該是這樣嘛對吧這個我可以接受所以所有的組長一開都找老師\n\n05:49.966 --> 06:14.709\n但是老師找不到代理助長找不到代理老師找不到的情況之下有一些組實際上他不見得需要教學經驗的人來做嘛舉例來講像教務處教務處你說教學組那當然要有教學經驗對不對但是如果註冊組或者是輔導室的一些其他的相關的譬如說資訊組這為什麼一定要有教學經驗的人來兼呢\n\n06:16.650 --> 06:38.740\n這個可能也牽涉到學校的資訊教育的好沒關係你去盤點嘛你說一定要教學經驗的來做那你就按照原來的規劃但是如果有的實際上不見得一定要老師在兼而現在學校已經缺行政職缺到這麼嚴重的地步我剛剛已經講過案例了嘛那為什麼不能做一些調整呢\n\n06:39.660 --> 06:52.285\n這很僵化我們政府很僵化就是不會說遇到問題去調整體制就是既有的體制一直做到底即便是遇到問題好像當沒看到那這是一個負責任的解決問題的政府嗎任市長\n\n06:53.649 --> 07:17.960\n我想我會把委員的意見轉請教育部整體來沒有這個有關於人事任用教育部有時候就會推給人事總署嘛這個乾燥人事總署的規劃我們一起處理我們一起對啊你推給他他推給你問題就永遠存在嘛不是啦我跟你講人事長因為剛剛那個昭緯有指示啊分配不能太大但是你的回應真的讓人家覺得很官僚啦\n\n07:18.993 --> 07:48.230\n你就一直去扯教育部如果一個勇於任事的人事長發現這個問題教育體制的人事任用出現這個問題就會說哇我很重視教育我要趕快去跟教育部我們一起研商出一個解決教育現場問題的方法但是我沒有看到你的態度欸然後我剛剛第一時間我的態度跟委員一樣我第一時間跟你講說問題已經嚴重到就是有一公立老師他缺公立高中缺行政職缺到這種地步然後你跟我講說我三個月給你辦法你根本不把這個當一回事啊\n\n07:49.778 --> 08:12.184\n所以我希望說你真的認真的去看待這件事情可以嗎可以啊那可不可以盡快給我們一個解決方案盡快不要講三個月好那多久兩個月兩個月你覺得兩個月兩個月一個學期都過去了勒一個月啦我剛剛講了三個建議我剛剛講了三個建議一個月給我一個報告好不好好不好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.269,"end":10.833,"text":"今天都要保持70分貝以下超過分貝太高我驅逐出會場主席請找人事長請人事長"},{"start":19.81,"end":47.05,"text":"委員長委員長早我跟你講一個現在在學校發生的現象某一個公立高中他有一個某一個處的一個組長一般組長是由老師來兼因為沒有老師兼所以就找代理老師代理老師一招二招是可以找有教師證都找不到所以三招就開始找沒有教師證的就是那種大學畢業有符合大學畢業資格的就可以來當組長"},{"start":49.071,"end":68.721,"text":"然後第一位代理組長做一個月就不做了後來又再招第二個組長又是做一個月就不做了所以現在在學校缺行政職的狀況是非常嚴重但是這裡面出現一個我個人覺得蠻奇怪的現象"},{"start":69.321,"end":97.402,"text":"就是其實學校裡面很多組裡面都有考教務行政進去的幹事這些幹事有的是做可能十幾二十年他不能做組長然後呢要由比如說大學剛畢業可能就教學各方面都還沒有經驗的人當他的主管領主管家級但卻不能由幹事來代理這個組長就出現這個狀況那個我不曉得任市長您聽到之後會不會覺得有點奇怪"},{"start":100.069,"end":121.358,"text":"這個我們再來了解一下不是了解我現在跟你講現象就是這樣那你聽我這樣描述你覺得不能由很有經驗的幹事來代理組長但是必須要由比如說沒有教師證我不是說代理老師一定不好啦而是說這就找不到人嘛當然可以先老師然後再來代理老師但是如果都找不到人的情況之下"},{"start":122.679,"end":133.18,"text":"幹事不能來代理組長他明明就很有經驗啊只是因為他他不是老師他就沒有辦法代理組長然後你不覺得很奇怪嗎你聽這樣講你會不會覺得很奇怪"},{"start":134.065,"end":158.926,"text":"有一點奇怪這部分我會答應委員我們找教育部來了解一下看看因應這樣的情況要如何去解決一定要改過來教育現場已經碰到了一定要想辦法解決所以你現在是要研議說如果假設碰到這種狀況老師都沒有辦法去兼的話由幹事來代理你在研議這個方向是不是"},{"start":159.306,"end":165.63,"text":"有時候也是人事總署的建議啦因為有的是那種直系也是你們規定啦那這個部分就麻煩你了什麼時候會給我一個答案一個月內嘛 因為現在狀況很嚴重"},{"start":182.302,"end":202.215,"text":"三個月啦 三個月太久了啦因為那個人事長平常不是 這個直系的東西不是地方可以決定的啦這是第一件事情第二件事情行政 現在缺行政職其實很多人在說要提高行政家級那這個部分其實已經講很久"},{"start":203.095,"end":213.745,"text":"那我是有看到考試院有發一個新聞啦可能人事總處也有建議啦就是我們現在要平衡中央跟地方嘛所以要調整地方機關的3500個職務讓他可以提高一個職等嘛對吧"},{"start":215.061,"end":239.53,"text":"職等大概原來有7-8會整個調到8-9所以其實我建議可以比照這種做法因為你們的出發點很好就是地方機關有時候找人不容易很多人都要往中央去跑就是因為職等比較低所以現在要平衡這件事情同樣的像我也覺得在學校裡面的校長主任職等很低現在校長如果領行政家級的話職等是多少"},{"start":242.338,"end":253.736,"text":"小學是不是兼任九職等兼任九職等你看喔 一個學校的校長喔校長喔他的職等才兼任九職等高中是兼任十職等嘛對吧"},{"start":256.566,"end":275.334,"text":"那當然嘛那以一個學校校長都才兼任90等那人事長不覺得很不尊重教育嗎不重視教育嗎重視教育那謝謝就像你重視地方機關一樣你現在要調整中央跟地方的值等讓他們比較平衡我覺得"},{"start":276.354,"end":293.202,"text":"也應該要調整學校的行政職的職等校長主任都往上提高那提高的話他的行政佳績就會提高嘛那這是一個尊重第二個當然是待遇也提高不然的話現在在學校也沒有人要真的很少人要兼行政才會出現我剛剛講的狀況啦人事長你重視教育嗎"},{"start":299.344,"end":325.099,"text":"那就不要口慧食不治好不好這件事情既然可以做到地方的職等提高我覺得教育行政職等提高也是應該要做第三件事情我們現在在學校裡面有非常多處學務處教務處輔導室總務處那您知道在學校裡面只有哪幾個組長是可以由公務人員來兼嗎您知道嗎三個就是總務處下面三個組長可以兼"},{"start":326.277,"end":348.934,"text":"那我現在不懂的是說那人事總署跟教育部都會規定說要有老師來兼的原因是因為老師有教學經驗嘛所以有些組長他可能要有教學經驗的組長去兼他比較了解怎麼去規劃學校的相關行政事務嘛應該是這樣嘛出發點應該是這樣嘛對吧這個我可以接受所以所有的組長一開都找老師"},{"start":349.966,"end":374.709,"text":"但是老師找不到 代理助長找不到 代理老師找不到的情況之下有一些組 實際上他不見得需要教學經驗的人來做嘛舉例來講 像教務處 教務處你說教學組那當然要有教學經驗對不對 但是如果註冊組或者是輔導室的一些其他的相關的 譬如說資訊組這為什麼一定要有教學經驗的人來兼呢"},{"start":376.65,"end":398.74,"text":"這個可能也牽涉到學校的資訊教育的好沒關係你去盤點嘛你說一定要教學經驗的來做那你就按照原來的規劃但是如果有的實際上不見得一定要老師在兼而現在學校已經缺行政職缺到這麼嚴重的地步我剛剛已經講過案例了嘛那為什麼不能做一些調整呢"},{"start":399.66,"end":412.285,"text":"這很僵化 我們政府很僵化就是不會說遇到問題去調整體制就是既有的體制一直做到底即便是遇到問題好像當沒看到那這是一個負責任的解決問題的政府嗎 任市長"},{"start":413.649,"end":437.96,"text":"我想我會把委員的意見轉請教育部整體來沒有 這個有關於人事任用教育部有時候就會推給人事總署嘛這個乾燥人事總署的規劃我們一起處理 我們一起對啊 你推給他 他推給你問題就永遠存在嘛不是啦 我跟你講 人事長因為剛剛那個 昭緯有指示啊分配不能太大但是你的回應真的讓人家覺得很官僚啦"},{"start":438.993,"end":468.23,"text":"你就一直去扯教育部如果一個勇於任事的人事長發現這個問題教育體制的人事任用出現這個問題就會說哇 我很重視教育我要趕快去跟教育部我們一起研商出一個解決教育現場問題的方法但是我沒有看到你的態度欸然後我剛剛第一時間 我的態度跟委員一樣我第一時間跟你講說問題已經嚴重到就是有一公立老師他缺公立高中缺行政職缺到這種地步然後你跟我講說我三個月給你辦法你根本不把這個當一回事啊"},{"start":469.778,"end":492.184,"text":"所以我希望說你真的認真的去看待這件事情可以嗎可以啊那可不可以盡快給我們一個解決方案盡快不要講三個月好那多久兩個月兩個月你覺得兩個月兩個月一個學期都過去了勒一個月啦我剛剛講了三個建議我剛剛講了三個建議一個月給我一個報告好不好好不好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":675,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時35分）好，謹遵召委指示。主席好。請人事長。"],["主席：請人事長。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：委員早。"],["葉委員元之：人事長早。我跟你講一個現在在學校發生的現象，某一個公立高中某一個處的組長，一般組長是由老師來兼，因為沒有老師兼，所以就找代理老師，而代理老師一招、二招是可以找有教師證的，但是都招不到，所以三招就開始找沒有教師證的，就是那種有符合大學畢業資格的就可以來當組長。然後第一位代理組長做了一個月就不做了，後來又再招第二個組長，又是做一個月就不做了，所以現在在學校缺行政職的狀況非常嚴重。這裡面出現一個我個人覺得蠻奇怪的現象，其實學校裡面很多組都有考教育行政進去的幹事，這些幹事有的可能做了十幾、二十年，他不能做組長，要由比如大學剛畢業，教學、各方面都還沒有經驗的人當他的主管、領主管加給，卻不能由幹事來代理組長，就出現這個狀況。我不曉得人事長聽到之後，會不會覺得有點奇怪？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這個我們再來了解一下。"],["葉委員元之：不是了解，我現在跟你講，現象就是這樣。你聽我這樣描述，你覺得不能由很有經驗的幹事來代理組長，必須由比如沒有教師證……我不是說代理老師一定不好，而是找不到人，當然，可以先老師再來代理老師，但是如果都找不到人的情況之下，幹事不能來代理組長，他明明就很有經驗，只是因為他不是老師，就沒有辦法代理組長，你不覺得很奇怪嗎？聽我這樣講，你會不會覺得很奇怪？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有一點奇怪，這部分我答應委員，我們找教育部來了解一下，看看因應這樣的情況要如何去改……"],["葉委員元之：如何解決？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對，一定要解決，教育現場已經碰到了，一定要想辦法解決。"],["葉委員元之：對，所以你現在是要研議假設碰到這種狀況，老師都沒有辦法去兼的話，由幹事來代理，你要研議這個方向，是不是？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：讓教育部整體去考慮，為什麼原來沒有辦法去代理組長，一定有什麼原因存在。"],["葉委員元之：沒有，這個有時候也是人事總處的建議。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：沒有，我跟你講，那要尊重教育部。"],["葉委員元之：因為職系什麼的，那也是你們規定的，這個部分就麻煩你了。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。"],["葉委員元之：什麼時候會給我一個答案？1個月內，因為現在狀況很嚴重。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：3個月。"],["葉委員元之：3個月太久了，人事長平常……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：還要跟教育部、跟地方去講，不是只有教育部而已。"],["葉委員元之：不是，這個職系的東西不是地方可以決定的，這是第一件事情。","第二件事情，現在缺行政職，其實很多人在說要提高行政加給，這個部分其實已經講很久了。我看到考試院發了一則新聞，可能人事總處也有建議，就是我們現在為了平衡中央跟地方，所以要調整地方機關3,500個職務，可以提高1個職等，對吧？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：職等大概原來有7的或7到8的，會調到8到9，整個影響大概3,500人。"],["葉委員元之：對，其實我建議可以比照這種做法，因為你們的出發點很好，就是地方機關有時候找人不容易，很多人都要往中央去跑，就是因為地方職等比較低，所以你們現在要平衡這件事情。同樣地，像我也覺得在學校裡面校長、主任的職等很低，現在校長如果領行政加給的話，職等是多少？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：是小學還是國中……"],["葉委員元之：小學，是不是薦任9職等？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：9職等。"],["葉委員元之：薦任9職等？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對。"],["葉委員元之：你看，一個學校校長的職等才薦任9職等，高中是簡任10職等，對吧？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：學校有大有小。"],["葉委員元之：那當然，一個學校的校長都才薦任9職等，人事長不覺得很不尊重教育、不重視教育嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：重視教育的本質。"],["葉委員元之：重視教育，謝謝。就像你重視地方機關一樣，你現在要調整中央跟地方的職等，讓他們比較平衡，我覺得也應該要調整學校行政職的職等，校長、主任都往上提高，提高的話，他們的行政加給就會提高，這是一個尊重；第二個，當然待遇也提高，不然的話，現在學校裡面真的很少人要兼行政，才會出現我剛剛講的狀況。人事長，你重視教育嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：大家都重視教育。"],["葉委員元之：那就不要口惠而實不至，好不好？既然可以做到地方的職等提高，我覺得教育行政職等提高也是應該要做的。","第三件事情，我們現在在學校裡面有非常多處，學務處、教務處、輔導室、總務處，您知道在學校裡面只有哪幾個組長是可以由公務人員來兼嗎？您知道嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我不知道。"],["葉委員元之：3個，就是總務處下面3個組長可以兼。我現在不懂的是，人事總處跟教育部都會規定要老師來兼的原因，是因為老師有教學經驗，所以有些組長可能要有教學經驗的組長去兼，他比較了解怎麼去規劃學校相關行政事務，出發點應該是這樣，對吧？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：對，基本上。"],["葉委員元之：這個我可以接受。所以所有的組長一開始都找老師來兼，但是老師找不到、代理組長找不到、代理老師也找不到的情況之下，有一些組實際上不見得需要教學經驗的人來做。舉例來講，像教務處，你說教學組，組長當然要有教學經驗，對不對？但是如果是註冊組、輔導室其他相關的或者比如資訊組，人事長，為什麼一定要有教學經驗的人來兼呢？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這個可能也牽涉到學校資訊教育的相關部分。"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，你去盤點，你說一定要有教學經驗的人來做，那就按照原來的規劃，但是如果有的實際上不見得一定要老師來兼，而現在學校已經缺行政職缺到這麼嚴重的地步，我剛剛已經講過案例了，為什麼不能做一些調整呢？這很僵化，我們政府很僵化，不會遇到問題去調整體制，就在既有的體制一直做到底，即便是遇到問題，然後當沒看到。人事長，這是一個負責任、解決問題的政府嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我會把委員的意見轉請教育部整體來考慮。"],["葉委員元之：有關於人事任用，教育部有時候會推給人事總處，說按照人事總處的規劃……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們一起處理。"],["葉委員元之：對，你推給它，它推給你，問題就永遠存在嘛！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：不是，我們不習慣推……"],["葉委員元之：人事長，我跟你講，剛剛召委有指示分貝不能太大，但是你的回應真的讓人家覺得很官僚，你就一直去扯教育部。如果一個勇於任事的人事長，發現教育體制的人事任用出現這個問題，就會說：「我很重視教育，我要趕快去跟教育部一起研商出一個解決教育現場問題的方法」，但是我沒有看到你的態度。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我的態度跟委員一樣。"],["葉委員元之：我第一時間跟你講說問題已經嚴重到公立高中缺行政職缺到這種地步，然後你跟我講說：「我3個月給你辦法」，你根本不把這個當一回事！所以我希望你真的認真地去看待這件事情，可以嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：可以。"],["葉委員元之：那可不可以儘快給我們一個解決方案？儘快，不要講3個月。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。"],["葉委員元之：那要多久？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：2個月。"],["葉委員元之：2個月？你覺得2個月……2個月，1個學期就過去了。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：不會。"],["葉委員元之：1個月啦！我剛剛講的3個建議在1個月給我一個報告，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好。"],["葉委員元之：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員，聲音稍大，但內容很棒。","接下來請伍麗華委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":332,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-5","speakers":["莊瑞雄","吳宗憲","陳培瑜","黃國昌","林倩綺","王義川","羅智強","王鴻薇","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈發惠","傅崐萁"],"page_start":279,"meetingDate":["2025-10-29"],"gazette_id":"1148901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148901_00006"}}}